Latest / iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas / £1M to £5M Revenue: It Could Kill Your SaaS Company | iwon podcast Episode 4 | Mark Blakemore

Transcript

£1M to £5M Revenue: It Could Kill Your SaaS Company | iwon podcast Episode 4 | Mark Blakemore · iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:01
  the
• 0:01
  podcast.
• 0:01
  Today
• 0:02
  I'm
• 0:02
  really
• 0:03
  excited
• 0:03
  to
• 0:03
  have
• 0:03
  with
• 0:04
  me
• 0:05
  Mark
• 0:05
  Blakemore
• 0:06
  of
• 0:06
  Home
• 0:06
  Run
• 0:06
  Finance.
• 0:07
  This
• 0:07
  guy
• 0:07
  has
• 0:07
  been
• 0:08
  in
• 0:08
  the
• 0:08
  trenches
• 0:08
  with
• 0:08
  SaaS
• 0:09
  founders
• 0:09
  and
• 0:10
  SaaS
• 0:10
  companies
• 0:11
  for
• 0:11
  a
• 0:11
  long
• 0:11
  time.
• 0:13
  He
• 0:13
  helps
• 0:14
  them
• 0:14
  work
• 0:15
  out
• 0:15
  exactly
• 0:16
  what's
• 0:17
  going
• 0:17
  on
• 0:17
  and
• 0:18
  get
• 0:18
  onto
• 0:18
  something
• 0:18
  that
• 0:19
  we
• 0:19
  refer
• 0:20
  to
• 0:20
  as
• 0:21
  the
• 0:21
  pressure
• 0:21
  stage.
• 0:22
  He
• 0:22
  calls
• 0:23
  it
• 0:23
  the
• 0:23
  SaaS
• 0:23
  death
• 0:24
  zone.
• 0:24
  It
• 0:24
  is
• 0:25
  where
• 0:25
  most
• 0:26
  don't
• 0:26
  make
• 0:26
  it.
• 0:27
  Mark,
• 0:27
  welcome
• 0:28
  to
• 0:28
  the
• 0:28
  podcast.
• 0:29
  Do
• 0:29
  you
• 0:29
  mind
• 0:29
  telling
• 0:30
  me
• 0:30
  a
• 0:30
  little
• 0:30
  bit
• 0:30
  about
• 0:30
  you
• 0:31
  and
• 0:31
  then
• 0:32
  tell
• 0:32
  us
• 0:33
  about
• 0:33
  this
• 0:33
  SaaS
• 0:35
  death
• 0:35
  zone?
• 0:36
  Good
• 0:36
  to
• 0:36
  be
• 0:36
  here
• 0:36
  Michael,
• 0:37
  and
• 0:37
  thanks
• 0:37
  for
• 0:37
  inviting
• 0:38
  me.
• 0:39
  So
• 0:39
  I've
• 0:39
  been
• 0:39
  a
• 0:40
  chartered
• 0:40
  Accountant
• 0:41
  for
• 0:41
  over
• 0:41
  30
• 0:42
  odd
• 0:42
  years
• 0:42
  now
• 0:43
  and
• 0:43
  over
• 0:43
  the
• 0:43
  last
• 0:44
  25
• 0:44
  years
• 0:45
  I've
• 0:45
  been
• 0:46
  a
• 0:46
  CFO
• 0:47
  in
• 0:48
  various
• 0:49
  different
• 0:49
  types
• 0:49
  of
• 0:49
  businesses
• 0:50
  but
• 0:50
  all
• 0:50
  around
• 0:50
  sort
• 0:51
  of
• 0:51
  technology
• 0:52
  or
• 0:52
  telecoms,
• 0:53
  firstly
• 0:54
  in
• 0:54
  telecoms
• 0:55
  with
• 0:55
  Kingsley
• 0:56
  Communications,
• 0:57
  but
• 0:57
  most
• 0:57
  lastly
• 0:58
  for
• 0:58
  the
• 0:58
  last
• 0:58
  20
• 0:58
  years
• 0:59
  I've
• 0:59
  been
• 0:59
  involved
• 1:00
  in
• 1:01
  software
• 1:01
  companies
• 1:02
  for
• 1:02
  the
• 1:02
  last
• 1:02
  15
• 1:03
  years
• 1:03
  of
• 1:03
  those
• 1:04
  predominantly
• 1:05
  on
• 1:05
  the
• 1:05
  SaaS
• 1:06
  arena.
• 1:07
  So
• 1:07
  that's
• 1:08
  my
• 1:08
  specialty,
• 1:08
  my
• 1:08
  niche.
• 1:09
  It's
• 1:09
  what
• 1:09
  I
• 1:09
  enjoy
• 1:10
  doing,
• 1:11
  helping
• 1:11
  small
• 1:12
  growing
• 1:13
  SaaS
• 1:13
  companies
• 1:14
  getting
• 1:15
  to
• 1:15
  the
• 1:15
  next
• 1:15
  stage
• 1:16
  of
• 1:16
  their
• 1:16
  development.
• 1:17
  And
• 1:17
  yes,
• 1:17
  you
• 1:18
  referred
• 1:18
  to
• 1:19
  rightly
• 1:20
  to
• 1:20
  what
• 1:20
  I
• 1:20
  call
• 1:20
  the
• 1:21
  death
• 1:21
  zone.
• 1:21
  And
• 1:22
  this
• 1:22
  is
• 1:22
  what
• 1:23
  I've
• 1:23
  seen
• 1:23
  in
• 1:23
  many
• 1:24
  years
• 1:24
  that
• 1:25
  initially
• 1:26
  SaaS
• 1:26
  companies
• 1:26
  can
• 1:27
  come
• 1:27
  up
• 1:27
  with
• 1:27
  a
• 1:27
  great
• 1:27
  idea
• 1:28
  and
• 1:28
  they
• 1:28
  get
• 1:29
  seed
• 1:29
  funding
• 1:29
  for
• 1:30
  that
• 1:30
  idea
• 1:31
  and
• 1:32
  that
• 1:32
  can
• 1:33
  get
• 1:33
  them
• 1:34
  roughly
• 1:34
  to
• 1:34
  around
• 1:35
  say
• 1:35
  one
• 1:35
  million,
• 1:36
  one
• 1:36
  and
• 1:36
  a
• 1:36
  half
• 1:36
  million
• 1:37
  of
• 1:38
  annual
• 1:38
  recurring
• 1:38
  revenue.
• 1:40
  And
• 1:40
  then
• 1:41
  at
• 1:41
  that
• 1:41
  stage
• 1:42
  the
• 1:43
  companies
• 1:43
  then
• 1:43
  maybe
• 1:44
  start
• 1:44
  to
• 1:44
  need
• 1:45
  some
• 1:45
  further
• 1:46
  funding,
• 1:46
  maybe
• 1:47
  sort
• 1:47
  of
• 1:47
  seed
• 1:47
  a
• 1:48
  in
• 1:48
  order
• 1:49
  to
• 1:49
  take
• 1:49
  the
• 1:49
  next
• 1:49
  step
• 1:50
  in
• 1:50
  their
• 1:51
  development.
• 1:51
  So
• 1:52
  they've
• 1:52
  reached
• 1:52
  a
• 1:52
  stage
• 1:52
  where
• 1:53
  they've
• 1:53
  got
• 1:53
  a
• 1:54
  little
• 1:54
  bit
• 1:54
  of
• 1:54
  product
• 1:54
  market
• 1:55
  fit.
• 1:55
  They've
• 1:55
  proven
• 1:56
  that
• 1:56
  what
• 1:56
  they've
• 1:56
  developed
• 1:57
  has
• 1:57
  some
• 1:57
  resonance
• 1:58
  within
• 1:58
  the
• 1:59
  market,
• 1:59
  but
• 1:59
  they've
• 1:59
  not
• 2:00
  yet
• 2:00
  established
• 2:00
  probably
• 2:01
  true
• 2:02
  full
• 2:02
  product
• 2:03
  market
• 2:03
  fit.
• 2:04
  And
• 2:04
  so
• 2:05
  when
• 2:05
  they
• 2:05
  go
• 2:05
  for
• 2:05
  that
• 2:05
  funding
• 2:06
  that's
• 2:06
  the
• 2:06
  difficult
• 2:07
  time
• 2:08
  funders
• 2:09
  like
• 2:10
  going
• 2:10
  for
• 2:11
  companies
• 2:11
  that
• 2:12
  are
• 2:12
  the
• 2:13
  pre
• 2:13
  seed
• 2:13
  stage,
• 2:14
  wanting
• 2:14
  to
• 2:14
  get
• 2:14
  the
• 2:14
  next
• 2:15
  Google
• 2:16
  or
• 2:16
  lovable
• 2:17
  or
• 2:17
  something
• 2:17
  like
• 2:17
  that.
• 2:18
  But
• 2:19
  they're
• 2:19
  very
• 2:19
  reticent
• 2:20
  at
• 2:20
  investing
• 2:21
  when
• 2:21
  companies
• 2:22
  are
• 2:22
  between
• 2:22
  1
• 2:23
  to
• 2:23
  5
• 2:23
  million,
• 2:23
  what
• 2:23
  I
• 2:24
  call
• 2:24
  the
• 2:25
  death
• 2:25
  zone.
• 2:26
  Above
• 2:26
  5
• 2:26
  million
• 2:27
  you've
• 2:27
  established
• 2:28
  product
• 2:28
  market
• 2:29
  fit
• 2:30
  and
• 2:30
  you've
• 2:31
  got
• 2:31
  a
• 2:31
  lot
• 2:31
  more
• 2:31
  residents
• 2:32
  market
• 2:32
  and
• 2:32
  funders
• 2:32
  that
• 2:33
  are
• 2:33
  willing
• 2:33
  to
• 2:33
  put
• 2:34
  open
• 2:34
  the
• 2:34
  checkbooks
• 2:35
  and
• 2:35
  put
• 2:35
  more
• 2:35
  money
• 2:36
  in
• 2:36
  in
• 2:36
  order
• 2:36
  to
• 2:36
  get
• 2:36
  you
• 2:37
  to
• 2:37
  20,
• 2:37
  30,
• 2:38
  50
• 2:38
  million.
• 2:39
  But
• 2:39
  between
• 2:39
  1
• 2:39
  and
• 2:39
  5
• 2:40
  million
• 2:40
  it's
• 2:41
  very,
• 2:41
  very
• 2:41
  difficult
• 2:42
  to
• 2:42
  get
• 2:43
  funding
• 2:43
  and
• 2:43
  that's
• 2:43
  why
• 2:44
  I
• 2:44
  call
• 2:44
  it
• 2:44
  this.
• 2:44
  Yes,
• 2:45
  you
• 2:45
  mentioned
• 2:45
  about
• 2:46
  this
• 2:46
  idea
• 2:46
  about
• 2:47
  5
• 2:47
  million
• 2:48
  being
• 2:48
  the
• 2:49
  sort
• 2:49
  of
• 2:49
  ARR
• 2:51
  where
• 2:52
  in
• 2:52
  effect
• 2:53
  it's
• 2:53
  a
• 2:53
  lower
• 2:54
  risk
• 2:54
  for
• 2:54
  investors.
• 2:55
  What
• 2:55
  do
• 2:55
  you
• 2:56
  see
• 2:56
  happening
• 2:57
  in
• 2:57
  between?
• 2:58
  You
• 2:58
  mentioned
• 2:58
  the
• 2:58
  product
• 2:59
  market
• 2:59
  fit
• 3:00
  being
• 3:00
  there
• 3:01
  sort
• 3:01
  of,
• 3:02
  but
• 3:03
  certainly
• 3:03
  5
• 3:04
  million
• 3:04
  being
• 3:05
  a
• 3:05
  much
• 3:05
  clearer
• 3:06
  product
• 3:06
  market
• 3:06
  fit.
• 3:07
  What
• 3:07
  kind
• 3:07
  of
• 3:07
  happens
• 3:09
  in
• 3:09
  that
• 3:09
  death
• 3:09
  zone
• 3:10
  in
• 3:10
  between
• 3:11
  for
• 3:11
  most
• 3:11
  of
• 3:12
  these.
• 3:12
  Companies,
• 3:12
  that's
• 3:13
  the
• 3:13
  struggle
• 3:13
  part
• 3:13
  for
• 3:13
  companies.
• 3:14
  So
• 3:15
  they've
• 3:15
  got
• 3:15
  to
• 3:15
  try
• 3:16
  and
• 3:16
  establish
• 3:16
  the
• 3:16
  processes,
• 3:17
  the
• 3:18
  developments
• 3:18
  of
• 3:18
  the
• 3:18
  product
• 3:19
  in
• 3:19
  such
• 3:19
  a
• 3:19
  way
• 3:20
  as
• 3:20
  to
• 3:20
  grow
• 3:20
  from
• 3:20
  1
• 3:21
  to
• 3:21
  5.
• 3:22
  And
• 3:22
  if
• 3:22
  they've
• 3:22
  got
• 3:23
  sufficient
• 3:23
  funding
• 3:24
  to
• 3:24
  do
• 3:24
  it,
• 3:24
  then
• 3:25
  great.
• 3:25
  But
• 3:25
  many
• 3:26
  companies
• 3:26
  I
• 3:27
  know
• 3:27
  do
• 3:27
  struggle.
• 3:27
  They
• 3:28
  reach
• 3:28
  2,
• 3:29
  3
• 3:29
  maybe,
• 3:30
  and
• 3:31
  they're
• 3:31
  then
• 3:31
  growing
• 3:32
  at
• 3:32
  lower
• 3:33
  rates,
• 3:33
  maybe
• 3:33
  10,
• 3:34
  15%
• 3:35
  per
• 3:35
  annum,
• 3:36
  which
• 3:36
  is
• 3:36
  okay,
• 3:37
  but
• 3:37
  it's
• 3:38
  not
• 3:38
  anything
• 3:38
  that's
• 3:38
  going
• 3:39
  to
• 3:39
  get
• 3:39
  an
• 3:39
  investor
• 3:39
  excited.
• 3:40
  They're
• 3:40
  really
• 3:40
  looking
• 3:41
  at
• 3:42
  30%,
• 3:43
  35%
• 3:43
  growth
• 3:44
  rates
• 3:44
  in
• 3:44
  order
• 3:45
  for
• 3:45
  them
• 3:45
  to
• 3:45
  put
• 3:45
  money
• 3:46
  in.
• 3:46
  And
• 3:47
  that's
• 3:47
  where
• 3:47
  it
• 3:48
  gets
• 3:48
  difficult
• 3:48
  for
• 3:48
  companies.
• 3:49
  They
• 3:49
  reach
• 3:49
  a
• 3:49
  kind
• 3:50
  of
• 3:50
  a
• 3:50
  tipping
• 3:50
  point
• 3:51
  where
• 3:51
  they
• 3:52
  need
• 3:52
  the
• 3:52
  cash
• 3:52
  to
• 3:52
  put
• 3:53
  more
• 3:53
  into
• 3:53
  marketing.
• 3:54
  But
• 3:54
  investors
• 3:55
  are
• 3:55
  loathe
• 3:55
  to
• 3:55
  give
• 3:56
  them
• 3:56
  that
• 3:56
  cash
• 3:56
  because
• 3:57
  their
• 3:57
  growth
• 3:57
  rates
• 3:58
  are
• 3:58
  too
• 3:58
  low
• 3:59
  to
• 3:59
  warrant
• 4:00
  further
• 4:00
  funding.
• 4:01
  And,
• 4:01
  and
• 4:01
  it
• 4:01
  then
• 4:01
  becomes
• 4:02
  a
• 4:02
  struggle.
• 4:03
  Something
• 4:04
  has
• 4:04
  to
• 4:04
  give
• 4:04
  and
• 4:05
  they
• 4:05
  either
• 4:05
  then
• 4:05
  sort
• 4:06
  of
• 4:06
  use
• 4:06
  that
• 4:06
  time
• 4:06
  to
• 4:07
  either
• 4:07
  sell
• 4:07
  the
• 4:07
  company
• 4:08
  and
• 4:08
  exit,
• 4:09
  but
• 4:09
  maybe
• 4:09
  at
• 4:10
  a
• 4:10
  reduced
• 4:10
  valuation,
• 4:11
  or
• 4:11
  they
• 4:12
  struggle
• 4:12
  on
• 4:12
  through.
• 4:13
  And
• 4:13
  it
• 4:14
  can
• 4:14
  be,
• 4:14
  it's
• 4:15
  really
• 4:15
  borne
• 4:15
  about
• 4:15
  by
• 4:16
  the
• 4:16
  cash
• 4:16
  constraint.
• 4:16
  If
• 4:17
  they
• 4:17
  have
• 4:17
  money
• 4:17
  to
• 4:17
  put
• 4:18
  into
• 4:18
  the
• 4:18
  next
• 4:19
  stage
• 4:19
  of
• 4:19
  development,
• 4:19
  the
• 4:20
  next
• 4:20
  stage
• 4:20
  of
• 4:20
  marketing,
• 4:21
  then
• 4:21
  great.
• 4:22
  But
• 4:22
  often
• 4:22
  they
• 4:22
  haven't
• 4:22
  got
• 4:23
  that
• 4:23
  because
• 4:23
  their
• 4:23
  growth
• 4:24
  rates
• 4:24
  are
• 4:24
  too
• 4:24
  low.
• 4:25
  What
• 4:25
  I
• 4:25
  believe
• 4:25
  you're
• 4:26
  saying
• 4:26
  essentially
• 4:26
  is
• 4:27
  they
• 4:27
  run
• 4:27
  out
• 4:27
  of
• 4:27
  Runway
• 4:29
  to
• 4:29
  be
• 4:29
  able
• 4:30
  to
• 4:30
  get
• 4:31
  to
• 4:31
  that
• 4:31
  next
• 4:31
  stage,
• 4:32
  whatever
• 4:32
  that
• 4:32
  next
• 4:33
  stage
• 4:33
  may
• 4:33
  be
• 4:33
  within
• 4:34
  that
• 4:34
  broad
• 4:34
  range
• 4:35
  of
• 4:35
  ARR.
• 4:35
  Is
• 4:36
  that
• 4:36
  right?
• 4:36
  Yes.
• 4:37
  Cash
• 4:37
  is
• 4:37
  critical
• 4:38
  in
• 4:38
  any
• 4:38
  growing
• 4:38
  sales
• 4:39
  company.
• 4:39
  So
• 4:40
  it
• 4:40
  brings
• 4:40
  me
• 4:41
  to
• 4:41
  an
• 4:41
  interesting
• 4:41
  question
• 4:42
  because
• 4:42
  I
• 4:42
  get
• 4:42
  asked
• 4:42
  about
• 4:43
  all
• 4:43
  the
• 4:43
  marketing
• 4:43
  and
• 4:43
  sales
• 4:44
  stuff
• 4:44
  and
• 4:44
  the
• 4:44
  reason
• 4:45
  that
• 4:45
  I
• 4:45
  wanted
• 4:46
  to
• 4:46
  really
• 4:46
  have
• 4:47
  a
• 4:47
  great
• 4:47
  conversation
• 4:48
  with
• 4:48
  you
• 4:48
  is
• 4:48
  because
• 4:49
  you
• 4:50
  hold
• 4:50
  all
• 4:50
  the
• 4:51
  secrets
• 4:51
  to
• 4:51
  the
• 4:51
  finance
• 4:52
  side.
• 4:52
  You
• 4:53
  know,
• 4:53
  what
• 4:54
  really
• 4:54
  kills
• 4:54
  these
• 4:55
  companies
• 4:55
  and
• 4:56
  the
• 4:56
  biggest
• 4:56
  mistakes
• 4:57
  they
• 4:57
  make.
• 4:58
  So
• 4:58
  if
• 4:58
  you
• 4:59
  don't
• 4:59
  mind
• 4:59
  me
• 5:00
  asking
• 5:00
  you,
• 5:01
  Mark,
• 5:02
  could
• 5:02
  you
• 5:02
  throw
• 5:03
  me
• 5:03
  like
• 5:03
  three
• 5:03
  of
• 5:03
  the
• 5:04
  biggest
• 5:04
  financial
• 5:04
  mistakes
• 5:05
  that
• 5:05
  you
• 5:06
  see
• 5:07
  SaaS
• 5:07
  companies
• 5:08
  make
• 5:08
  on
• 5:08
  a
• 5:08
  regular
• 5:09
  basis?
• 5:09
  I
• 5:10
  think
• 5:10
  number
• 5:10
  one
• 5:11
  is
• 5:11
  what
• 5:11
  I
• 5:11
  would
• 5:11
  call
• 5:12
  don't
• 5:12
  believe
• 5:12
  the
• 5:12
  hype.
• 5:14
  And
• 5:15
  this
• 5:15
  was
• 5:15
  born
• 5:15
  out
• 5:16
  of
• 5:16
  an
• 5:16
  experience
• 5:17
  that
• 5:17
  I
• 5:17
  had
• 5:18
  when
• 5:18
  I
• 5:18
  first
• 5:19
  moved
• 5:19
  out
• 5:20
  of
• 5:20
  telecoms
• 5:20
  and
• 5:20
  into
• 5:21
  a
• 5:21
  small
• 5:22
  project
• 5:22
  management
• 5:23
  company,
• 5:25
  software
• 5:25
  company,
• 5:26
  and
• 5:28
  I
• 5:28
  was
• 5:29
  bought
• 5:29
  in
• 5:29
  as
• 5:29
  a
• 5:29
  cfo.
• 5:30
  They,
• 5:31
  they'd
• 5:31
  had
• 5:31
  somebody
• 5:31
  on
• 5:31
  a
• 5:32
  temporary
• 5:32
  basis
• 5:33
  who
• 5:34
  had
• 5:34
  got
• 5:34
  a
• 5:34
  permanent
• 5:35
  role
• 5:35
  somewhere
• 5:36
  else
• 5:36
  that
• 5:37
  more
• 5:37
  matched
• 5:37
  what
• 5:38
  he
• 5:38
  wanted
• 5:38
  to
• 5:38
  do.
• 5:39
  And
• 5:40
  I
• 5:40
  was
• 5:40
  bought
• 5:40
  in
• 5:40
  by
• 5:41
  one
• 5:41
  investor
• 5:42
  who
• 5:42
  said,
• 5:42
  look,
• 5:42
  the
• 5:43
  company's
• 5:43
  in
• 5:44
  decent
• 5:45
  shape.
• 5:45
  We've
• 5:46
  just
• 5:46
  had
• 5:47
  250k
• 5:48
  of
• 5:49
  investment
• 5:49
  put
• 5:50
  in.
• 5:50
  It
• 5:50
  was
• 5:50
  a
• 5:51
  20
• 5:51
  years
• 5:51
  ago,
• 5:51
  so
• 5:51
  it's
• 5:51
  a
• 5:52
  little
• 5:52
  bit
• 5:52
  more
• 5:52
  than
• 5:52
  it
• 5:53
  would
• 5:53
  seem
• 5:53
  to
• 5:53
  be
• 5:53
  now.
• 5:54
  And
• 5:55
  this
• 5:55
  investor
• 5:56
  told
• 5:56
  me
• 5:56
  we're
• 5:57
  going
• 5:57
  to
• 5:57
  get
• 5:58
  30,
• 5:58
  40%
• 5:59
  growth
• 5:59
  over
• 6:00
  the
• 6:00
  course
• 6:00
  of
• 6:00
  the
• 6:00
  next
• 6:00
  year
• 6:01
  based
• 6:01
  on
• 6:02
  the
• 6:02
  prospects
• 6:03
  that
• 6:04
  are
• 6:04
  seen
• 6:04
  and
• 6:04
  visible
• 6:05
  in
• 6:05
  their
• 6:05
  sales
• 6:05
  pipeline.
• 6:07
  So
• 6:07
  I
• 6:07
  thought,
• 6:07
  great.
• 6:08
  So
• 6:08
  I
• 6:08
  went
• 6:09
  in
• 6:09
  and
• 6:10
  I
• 6:10
  thought,
• 6:10
  okay,
• 6:11
  settling
• 6:11
  in.
• 6:12
  I
• 6:12
  thought
• 6:12
  I'd
• 6:12
  better
• 6:12
  check.
• 6:13
  I
• 6:13
  suppose
• 6:14
  that
• 6:15
  seems
• 6:15
  like
• 6:15
  a
• 6:16
  good
• 6:16
  thing
• 6:16
  to
• 6:16
  do.
• 6:17
  Just
• 6:18
  talk
• 6:18
  me
• 6:18
  through
• 6:18
  some
• 6:18
  of
• 6:18
  these
• 6:18
  sales
• 6:19
  prospects,
• 6:19
  what
• 6:20
  the
• 6:20
  conversations
• 6:20
  are
• 6:20
  being
• 6:21
  had,
• 6:21
  where
• 6:21
  are
• 6:21
  they
• 6:22
  in
• 6:22
  the
• 6:22
  pipeline
• 6:22
  where
• 6:23
  they're
• 6:23
  going
• 6:23
  to
• 6:23
  sign?
• 6:24
  And
• 6:24
  essentially
• 6:25
  going
• 6:25
  through
• 6:26
  that
• 6:27
  pipeline
• 6:28
  list,
• 6:29
  it
• 6:29
  became
• 6:30
  apparent
• 6:30
  very
• 6:31
  quickly
• 6:31
  that
• 6:31
  actually
• 6:32
  it
• 6:32
  was
• 6:32
  just
• 6:32
  vapor.
• 6:33
  The
• 6:34
  sales
• 6:34
  guys
• 6:35
  were
• 6:35
  basically
• 6:36
  putting
• 6:36
  on
• 6:37
  this
• 6:37
  list
• 6:37
  where
• 6:37
  they'd
• 6:38
  had
• 6:38
  a
• 6:38
  cosy
• 6:38
  chat
• 6:39
  with
• 6:39
  a
• 6:39
  prospect.
• 6:40
  No
• 6:41
  kind
• 6:41
  of
• 6:41
  end
• 6:41
  resonance,
• 6:42
  no
• 6:42
  compunction
• 6:43
  on
• 6:43
  the
• 6:43
  company
• 6:43
  to
• 6:44
  buy,
• 6:44
  no
• 6:44
  real
• 6:45
  intent.
• 6:45
  It
• 6:46
  was
• 6:46
  if
• 6:46
  they'd
• 6:46
  had
• 6:46
  a
• 6:46
  cosy
• 6:47
  chat
• 6:47
  and
• 6:47
  yeah,
• 6:47
  we
• 6:48
  might
• 6:48
  do
• 6:48
  something
• 6:48
  in
• 6:48
  the
• 6:48
  future.
• 6:49
  And
• 6:49
  they
• 6:49
  put
• 6:49
  down
• 6:49
  that
• 6:50
  on
• 6:50
  this.
• 6:51
  Sales
• 6:51
  pipeline
• 6:51
  list
• 6:52
  as
• 6:52
  an
• 6:52
  opportunity.
• 6:53
  As
• 6:54
  an
• 6:54
  opportunity
• 6:54
  and
• 6:55
  a
• 6:55
  good
• 6:55
  opportunity.
• 6:56
  And
• 6:57
  so
• 6:57
  essentially
• 6:59
  this
• 7:00
  big
• 7:00
  long
• 7:00
  list
• 7:01
  of
• 7:01
  sales
• 7:01
  pipeline
• 7:02
  that
• 7:02
  I
• 7:02
  was
• 7:02
  told
• 7:02
  was
• 7:02
  going
• 7:02
  to
• 7:03
  support
• 7:03
  the
• 7:03
  company
• 7:04
  was
• 7:04
  kind
• 7:05
  of
• 7:05
  complete
• 7:06
  air.
• 7:07
  And
• 7:09
  by
• 7:09
  my
• 7:09
  reckoning,
• 7:11
  the
• 7:11
  company
• 7:12
  was
• 7:12
  then
• 7:12
  going
• 7:13
  to
• 7:13
  be
• 7:13
  insolvent
• 7:14
  within
• 7:14
  four
• 7:15
  months
• 7:16
  because
• 7:16
  of
• 7:16
  the
• 7:17
  cost
• 7:17
  base
• 7:17
  that
• 7:17
  it
• 7:18
  got.
• 7:18
  So
• 7:18
  I
• 7:19
  had
• 7:19
  to
• 7:19
  go
• 7:19
  back
• 7:19
  to
• 7:20
  the
• 7:20
  investor
• 7:21
  two
• 7:21
  weeks
• 7:21
  after
• 7:21
  I'd
• 7:22
  started
• 7:22
  and
• 7:22
  give
• 7:23
  him
• 7:23
  this
• 7:23
  news.
• 7:23
  And
• 7:24
  I
• 7:25
  can
• 7:25
  still
• 7:25
  recall
• 7:25
  the
• 7:26
  look
• 7:26
  on
• 7:26
  his
• 7:26
  face
• 7:26
  when
• 7:27
  I
• 7:27
  told
• 7:27
  him
• 7:27
  that.
• 7:27
  And
• 7:28
  actually
• 7:28
  he
• 7:28
  couldn't
• 7:28
  physically
• 7:29
  speak
• 7:30
  for
• 7:30
  10
• 7:30
  minutes
• 7:31
  because
• 7:31
  he
• 7:31
  not
• 7:32
  only
• 7:32
  put
• 7:32
  money
• 7:32
  in
• 7:32
  himself,
• 7:33
  but
• 7:33
  he
• 7:33
  did,
• 7:33
  he
• 7:34
  talked
• 7:34
  to
• 7:34
  some
• 7:35
  of
• 7:35
  his
• 7:35
  other
• 7:35
  angel
• 7:36
  investor
• 7:36
  friends
• 7:37
  and
• 7:37
  got
• 7:37
  them
• 7:37
  to
• 7:37
  put
• 7:37
  money
• 7:38
  in.
• 7:38
  So
• 7:38
  he
• 7:39
  had
• 7:39
  a
• 7:39
  personal
• 7:40
  obligation
• 7:40
  to
• 7:40
  some
• 7:40
  of
• 7:41
  these
• 7:41
  people.
• 7:42
  And
• 7:42
  so
• 7:43
  I
• 7:43
  was
• 7:43
  telling
• 7:43
  him
• 7:43
  the
• 7:44
  news
• 7:44
  that
• 7:44
  he
• 7:44
  was
• 7:44
  then
• 7:44
  going
• 7:45
  to
• 7:45
  have
• 7:45
  to
• 7:45
  go
• 7:45
  back
• 7:45
  to
• 7:45
  some
• 7:46
  of
• 7:46
  his
• 7:47
  fellow
• 7:47
  investors
• 7:48
  with
• 7:48
  as
• 7:48
  well.
• 7:49
  Yes,
• 7:49
  we
• 7:50
  then,
• 7:50
  after
• 7:50
  he
• 7:51
  then
• 7:51
  recovered
• 7:51
  the
• 7:51
  ability
• 7:52
  to
• 7:52
  talk,
• 7:52
  we
• 7:53
  then
• 7:54
  agreed
• 7:54
  a
• 7:55
  plan
• 7:55
  which
• 7:56
  was
• 7:56
  essentially
• 7:57
  we
• 7:57
  had
• 7:57
  to
• 7:57
  make
• 7:57
  some
• 7:57
  immediate
• 7:58
  redundancies.
• 7:59
  The
• 7:59
  CEO
• 8:00
  who'd
• 8:00
  also
• 8:01
  brought
• 8:01
  me
• 8:01
  in
• 8:02
  and
• 8:02
  effectively
• 8:03
  had
• 8:03
  signed
• 8:03
  off
• 8:04
  on
• 8:04
  this
• 8:05
  forecast.
• 8:06
  He
• 8:06
  also
• 8:07
  was
• 8:07
  fired
• 8:08
  to
• 8:09
  become
• 8:09
  really
• 8:09
  honest,
• 8:09
  asked
• 8:09
  to
• 8:09
  step
• 8:10
  down
• 8:10
  and
• 8:11
  we
• 8:11
  kind
• 8:11
  of
• 8:11
  did
• 8:11
  an
• 8:12
  immediate
• 8:12
  restructuring
• 8:13
  of
• 8:13
  that
• 8:13
  company,
• 8:13
  which
• 8:14
  wasn't
• 8:14
  a
• 8:14
  great
• 8:14
  place
• 8:15
  for
• 8:15
  me
• 8:15
  to
• 8:15
  go
• 8:15
  into.
• 8:15
  Obviously
• 8:16
  I'd
• 8:17
  come
• 8:17
  in
• 8:17
  and
• 8:17
  within
• 8:18
  A
• 8:18
  month.
• 8:18
  That's
• 8:18
  like
• 8:19
  proper
• 8:19
  fire
• 8:20
  sitting,
• 8:20
  isn't
• 8:20
  it?
• 8:21
  Yeah,
• 8:22
  it
• 8:23
  wasn't
• 8:23
  fun.
• 8:23
  And
• 8:23
  then
• 8:23
  we
• 8:24
  had
• 8:24
  to
• 8:24
  make
• 8:24
  redundancies
• 8:25
  and
• 8:25
  it
• 8:25
  was
• 8:25
  just
• 8:25
  before
• 8:25
  Christmas.
• 8:26
  It
• 8:26
  was
• 8:26
  all
• 8:26
  these
• 8:27
  things
• 8:27
  compounded
• 8:27
  into
• 8:28
  one.
• 8:28
  Not
• 8:28
  my
• 8:29
  finest
• 8:29
  hour,
• 8:30
  but
• 8:30
  it
• 8:30
  was
• 8:30
  necessary
• 8:30
  in
• 8:31
  order
• 8:31
  to
• 8:31
  keep
• 8:31
  the
• 8:31
  company
• 8:31
  afloat.
• 8:32
  Like
• 8:33
  I
• 8:33
  said,
• 8:33
  the
• 8:33
  first
• 8:34
  thing
• 8:34
  I
• 8:34
  would
• 8:35
  say
• 8:35
  to
• 8:35
  founders,
• 8:36
  particularly
• 8:36
  if
• 8:37
  they
• 8:37
  want
• 8:37
  to
• 8:37
  believe
• 8:38
  in
• 8:39
  their
• 8:39
  product,
• 8:40
  they
• 8:40
  want
• 8:40
  to
• 8:40
  believe
• 8:40
  in
• 8:41
  these
• 8:41
  prospects.
• 8:42
  And
• 8:42
  sometimes
• 8:42
  you've
• 8:42
  got
• 8:42
  to
• 8:43
  be
• 8:43
  very
• 8:43
  dispassionate
• 8:44
  and
• 8:45
  be
• 8:45
  objective
• 8:46
  and
• 8:46
  say,
• 8:46
  is
• 8:47
  that
• 8:47
  a
• 8:47
  real
• 8:47
  prospect
• 8:48
  or
• 8:48
  am
• 8:49
  I
• 8:49
  actually
• 8:50
  seeing
• 8:50
  what
• 8:50
  I
• 8:50
  want
• 8:51
  to
• 8:51
  see?
• 8:51
  So
• 8:52
  don't
• 8:52
  believe
• 8:52
  the
• 8:53
  hype
• 8:53
  is
• 8:53
  what
• 8:53
  I
• 8:54
  would
• 8:54
  suggest
• 8:54
  that
• 8:54
  founders
• 8:55
  sometimes
• 8:55
  can
• 8:55
  do.
• 8:56
  If
• 8:56
  you
• 8:56
  don't
• 8:56
  mind
• 8:57
  me
• 8:57
  asking,
• 8:58
  that
• 8:58
  situation
• 8:59
  that
• 8:59
  you
• 8:59
  just
• 8:59
  described
• 9:01
  was
• 9:01
  based
• 9:01
  on
• 9:02
  overcooked
• 9:03
  sales
• 9:04
  numbers
• 9:04
  dreamt
• 9:05
  up
• 9:05
  by
• 9:05
  salespeople
• 9:06
  who,
• 9:08
  you
• 9:08
  know,
• 9:09
  in
• 9:09
  terms
• 9:09
  of
• 9:09
  going
• 9:10
  through
• 9:10
  that
• 9:10
  during
• 9:10
  Christmas
• 9:11
  and
• 9:11
  being
• 9:12
  effectively
• 9:13
  a
• 9:13
  bit
• 9:13
  like
• 9:13
  a
• 9:13
  grim
• 9:14
  reaper,
• 9:14
  I
• 9:14
  guess,
• 9:15
  the
• 9:15
  bringer
• 9:15
  of
• 9:15
  bad
• 9:16
  news.
• 9:16
  What
• 9:17
  did
• 9:17
  things
• 9:17
  look
• 9:17
  like
• 9:18
  a
• 9:18
  couple
• 9:18
  of
• 9:18
  months
• 9:18
  later?
• 9:19
  Because
• 9:19
  from
• 9:20
  what
• 9:20
  you
• 9:20
  described,
• 9:20
  you
• 9:21
  went
• 9:21
  in,
• 9:21
  you
• 9:21
  were
• 9:21
  brought
• 9:21
  in
• 9:22
  by
• 9:22
  the
• 9:22
  CEO.
• 9:22
  He
• 9:23
  knew
• 9:24
  what
• 9:24
  he
• 9:24
  was
• 9:25
  doing
• 9:25
  in
• 9:25
  terms
• 9:25
  of
• 9:26
  bringing
• 9:26
  you
• 9:26
  in.
• 9:26
  He
• 9:27
  was
• 9:27
  then
• 9:27
  exited
• 9:28
  as
• 9:28
  a
• 9:28
  result
• 9:28
  of
• 9:28
  that
• 9:29
  process.
• 9:29
  It
• 9:29
  was
• 9:30
  right
• 9:30
  before
• 9:30
  Christmas.
• 9:32
  That
• 9:32
  must
• 9:32
  have
• 9:32
  been
• 9:32
  really
• 9:32
  stressful
• 9:33
  and
• 9:33
  really
• 9:33
  upsetting,
• 9:35
  but
• 9:35
  also
• 9:36
  essential
• 9:37
  for
• 9:37
  the
• 9:38
  business
• 9:38
  to
• 9:38
  survive.
• 9:39
  How
• 9:39
  were
• 9:40
  things
• 9:40
  a
• 9:40
  couple
• 9:40
  of
• 9:40
  months
• 9:41
  later
• 9:41
  after
• 9:42
  not
• 9:43
  believing
• 9:43
  the
• 9:43
  hype?
• 9:44
  Fortunately,
• 9:44
  I
• 9:44
  think
• 9:45
  they
• 9:45
  settled
• 9:45
  down.
• 9:45
  We
• 9:46
  ran
• 9:46
  the
• 9:46
  redundancy
• 9:47
  process
• 9:47
  and
• 9:47
  what
• 9:47
  I
• 9:47
  would
• 9:47
  say
• 9:48
  is
• 9:48
  we
• 9:48
  do
• 9:48
  run
• 9:48
  a
• 9:49
  process
• 9:49
  like
• 9:49
  that.
• 9:50
  Treat
• 9:50
  people
• 9:51
  well,
• 9:51
  treat
• 9:51
  people
• 9:51
  like
• 9:52
  human
• 9:52
  beings
• 9:53
  and
• 9:54
  go
• 9:55
  through
• 9:55
  the
• 9:55
  process
• 9:55
  in
• 9:56
  the
• 9:56
  proper
• 9:56
  way.
• 9:57
  Don't
• 9:57
  short
• 9:57
  circuit.
• 9:58
  It's.
• 9:58
  There
• 9:58
  are
• 9:58
  right
• 9:59
  ways
• 9:59
  and
• 9:59
  wrong
• 9:59
  ways
• 10:00
  of
• 10:00
  going
• 10:00
  through
• 10:00
  redundancy
• 10:01
  process.
• 10:01
  And
• 10:01
  I
• 10:01
  would
• 10:01
  strongly
• 10:02
  suggest
• 10:02
  that
• 10:03
  the
• 10:03
  right
• 10:03
  way
• 10:03
  is
• 10:03
  one
• 10:03
  way.
• 10:04
  You
• 10:04
  treat
• 10:04
  people
• 10:04
  with
• 10:04
  respect
• 10:05
  and
• 10:05
  you
• 10:06
  follow
• 10:06
  the
• 10:06
  regulations
• 10:07
  that
• 10:07
  are
• 10:07
  out
• 10:07
  there.
• 10:08
  So
• 10:09
  we
• 10:09
  treated
• 10:09
  people
• 10:09
  moderately
• 10:10
  well
• 10:11
  through
• 10:11
  that
• 10:11
  process.
• 10:11
  We
• 10:12
  made
• 10:12
  it
• 10:12
  clear,
• 10:12
  look,
• 10:13
  this
• 10:13
  is
• 10:13
  a
• 10:13
  no
• 10:14
  fault
• 10:14
  thing.
• 10:14
  We
• 10:14
  just
• 10:14
  have
• 10:14
  to
• 10:15
  cut
• 10:15
  costs.
• 10:15
  You've
• 10:15
  not
• 10:15
  done
• 10:16
  anything
• 10:16
  wrong.
• 10:17
  We'll
• 10:17
  support
• 10:17
  in
• 10:17
  whatever
• 10:18
  way
• 10:18
  we
• 10:18
  can
• 10:19
  in
• 10:19
  terms
• 10:20
  of
• 10:20
  getting
• 10:20
  you
• 10:20
  another
• 10:20
  job.
• 10:21
  We
• 10:21
  then
• 10:22
  sort
• 10:22
  of
• 10:22
  communicated
• 10:23
  with
• 10:23
  the
• 10:23
  staff
• 10:24
  who
• 10:24
  were
• 10:24
  remaining.
• 10:25
  This
• 10:25
  is
• 10:25
  what
• 10:25
  we're
• 10:26
  doing.
• 10:26
  We
• 10:26
  appointed
• 10:26
  a
• 10:27
  new
• 10:27
  CEO
• 10:28
  and
• 10:29
  we
• 10:29
  effectively
• 10:30
  started
• 10:31
  again.
• 10:31
  We
• 10:31
  did
• 10:31
  a
• 10:32
  reboot
• 10:33
  because
• 10:33
  we'd
• 10:33
  done
• 10:33
  that.
• 10:34
  We
• 10:34
  communicated
• 10:35
  effectively.
• 10:36
  We
• 10:36
  treated
• 10:36
  people
• 10:37
  well
• 10:37
  who
• 10:37
  were
• 10:37
  exiting
• 10:38
  the
• 10:38
  business.
• 10:39
  We
• 10:39
  got
• 10:39
  the
• 10:39
  buy
• 10:39
  in
• 10:39
  of
• 10:40
  the
• 10:40
  staff
• 10:40
  who
• 10:40
  remained.
• 10:41
  How
• 10:41
  did
• 10:41
  you
• 10:41
  work
• 10:42
  out
• 10:42
  that
• 10:42
  it
• 10:42
  was
• 10:43
  hype?
• 10:43
  Hot
• 10:44
  air.
• 10:44
  Just
• 10:44
  thinking
• 10:45
  from
• 10:45
  a
• 10:45
  founder's
• 10:46
  perspective,
• 10:47
  if
• 10:48
  they're
• 10:48
  not
• 10:48
  at
• 10:48
  a
• 10:48
  stage
• 10:49
  where
• 10:49
  they
• 10:49
  can
• 10:49
  bring
• 10:49
  in
• 10:49
  somebody
• 10:50
  like
• 10:50
  you.
• 10:51
  Are
• 10:51
  there
• 10:51
  some
• 10:52
  sort
• 10:52
  of
• 10:53
  red
• 10:53
  flags
• 10:53
  that
• 10:54
  they
• 10:54
  can
• 10:54
  look
• 10:54
  out
• 10:55
  for?
• 10:56
  I
• 10:56
  think
• 10:57
  it
• 10:57
  is
• 10:58
  talking
• 10:58
  about
• 10:58
  being
• 10:59
  dispassionate.
• 10:59
  It's
• 11:00
  really
• 11:00
  looking
• 11:00
  at
• 11:00
  where
• 11:01
  is
• 11:01
  the
• 11:01
  seller
• 11:02
  on
• 11:02
  their
• 11:02
  buying
• 11:02
  journey.
• 11:04
  Do
• 11:04
  they
• 11:04
  have
• 11:05
  a
• 11:05
  need
• 11:05
  for
• 11:06
  the
• 11:06
  product,
• 11:06
  do
• 11:06
  they
• 11:06
  have
• 11:07
  budget?
• 11:08
  How
• 11:08
  many
• 11:08
  meetings
• 11:09
  and
• 11:09
  demonstrations
• 11:10
  of
• 11:10
  the
• 11:10
  product
• 11:11
  have
• 11:11
  you
• 11:11
  had?
• 11:11
  What
• 11:12
  is
• 11:12
  their
• 11:12
  intent
• 11:13
  to
• 11:13
  buy
• 11:13
  and
• 11:13
  then
• 11:13
  need
• 11:14
  for
• 11:14
  your
• 11:14
  product?
• 11:14
  Have
• 11:15
  you
• 11:15
  established
• 11:15
  that
• 11:17
  correctly?
• 11:17
  It's
• 11:18
  basic
• 11:18
  sales
• 11:18
  fundamentals
• 11:19
  that
• 11:19
  to
• 11:19
  be
• 11:20
  honest,
• 11:20
  in
• 11:20
  this
• 11:20
  particular
• 11:21
  case
• 11:22
  weren't
• 11:22
  there.
• 11:23
  And
• 11:23
  I'd
• 11:23
  put
• 11:23
  the
• 11:23
  blame
• 11:24
  on
• 11:24
  some
• 11:24
  of
• 11:24
  that
• 11:24
  to
• 11:26
  the
• 11:26
  EFD
• 11:27
  who
• 11:27
  handed
• 11:27
  over
• 11:27
  to
• 11:28
  me.
• 11:28
  I
• 11:28
  don't
• 11:28
  think
• 11:28
  he'd
• 11:29
  done
• 11:29
  his
• 11:29
  role
• 11:30
  in
• 11:30
  terms
• 11:30
  of
• 11:30
  questioning
• 11:32
  those
• 11:32
  forecasts.
• 11:33
  He
• 11:33
  believed
• 11:34
  the
• 11:34
  hype.
• 11:35
  Yes.
• 11:35
  He
• 11:36
  didn't
• 11:36
  question
• 11:36
  it
• 11:36
  and
• 11:36
  he's
• 11:37
  okay,
• 11:37
  30k
• 11:38
  finals,
• 11:39
  note
• 11:39
  that
• 11:39
  down.
• 11:40
  And
• 11:41
  no
• 11:41
  questioning
• 11:42
  in
• 11:42
  terms
• 11:42
  of
• 11:44
  what
• 11:44
  I
• 11:45
  talk
• 11:45
  about.
• 11:45
  Is
• 11:45
  this
• 11:45
  a
• 11:46
  proper
• 11:46
  sales
• 11:46
  qualified
• 11:47
  opportunity?
• 11:48
  Talk
• 11:48
  me
• 11:48
  through
• 11:48
  where
• 11:48
  the
• 11:48
  buyer
• 11:49
  is
• 11:49
  on
• 11:49
  their
• 11:49
  buying
• 11:50
  journey.
• 11:50
  He
• 11:51
  hadn't
• 11:51
  done
• 11:51
  that.
• 11:51
  And
• 11:52
  neither
• 11:52
  the
• 11:52
  CEO
• 11:53
  effectively
• 11:53
  questioned
• 11:54
  it
• 11:54
  to
• 11:54
  any
• 11:54
  degree
• 11:54
  either.
• 11:55
  Would
• 11:55
  it
• 11:55
  be
• 11:55
  fair
• 11:56
  to
• 11:56
  say?
• 11:56
  And
• 11:57
  I'm
• 11:57
  saying
• 11:58
  this
• 11:58
  in
• 11:58
  a
• 11:58
  lovely
• 11:59
  way,
• 12:00
  salespeople
• 12:00
  tend
• 12:01
  to
• 12:01
  be
• 12:01
  very
• 12:01
  optimistic
• 12:02
  about
• 12:02
  the
• 12:03
  prospects.
• 12:04
  And
• 12:04
  so
• 12:04
  naturally
• 12:06
  they
• 12:06
  will
• 12:06
  be
• 12:07
  the
• 12:07
  sort
• 12:07
  of
• 12:07
  people
• 12:08
  to
• 12:08
  perhaps
• 12:09
  suggest
• 12:09
  that
• 12:10
  things
• 12:10
  are
• 12:10
  going
• 12:11
  even
• 12:11
  better
• 12:11
  than
• 12:12
  they
• 12:12
  might
• 12:12
  be
• 12:13
  for
• 12:13
  their
• 12:13
  own
• 12:14
  benefits,
• 12:15
  perhaps
• 12:15
  for
• 12:15
  the
• 12:16
  team's
• 12:16
  benefit,
• 12:16
  for
• 12:17
  the
• 12:17
  company's
• 12:17
  benefit.
• 12:18
  And
• 12:18
  they
• 12:18
  may
• 12:18
  think
• 12:18
  it
• 12:19
  may
• 12:19
  be
• 12:19
  a
• 12:19
  harmless
• 12:19
  thing,
• 12:20
  but
• 12:20
  actually
• 12:21
  trying
• 12:22
  to
• 12:22
  figure
• 12:22
  out
• 12:22
  some
• 12:22
  objective
• 12:23
  measures
• 12:24
  of
• 12:24
  whether
• 12:24
  a
• 12:24
  prospect
• 12:25
  is
• 12:25
  a
• 12:25
  serious
• 12:26
  prospect
• 12:26
  versus
• 12:26
  somebody
• 12:27
  on
• 12:27
  a
• 12:27
  list
• 12:28
  I
• 12:29
  think
• 12:29
  is
• 12:29
  a
• 12:29
  really
• 12:30
  great
• 12:30
  point.
• 12:31
  It
• 12:31
  comes
• 12:31
  down
• 12:31
  to
• 12:31
  sales
• 12:32
  management
• 12:32
  and
• 12:32
  in
• 12:33
  this
• 12:33
  case
• 12:33
  the
• 12:33
  CEO
• 12:34
  hadn't
• 12:34
  done
• 12:34
  the
• 12:34
  effective
• 12:35
  sales
• 12:35
  management
• 12:36
  of
• 12:36
  those
• 12:36
  sales
• 12:37
  heads
• 12:38
  to
• 12:38
  establish
• 12:38
  that
• 12:39
  actually
• 12:39
  many
• 12:40
  of
• 12:40
  these,
• 12:40
  they
• 12:40
  just
• 12:41
  weren't
• 12:41
  there,
• 12:41
  or
• 12:41
  if
• 12:42
  they
• 12:42
  were
• 12:42
  there,
• 12:42
  they
• 12:42
  weren't
• 12:43
  going
• 12:43
  to
• 12:43
  buy
• 12:43
  for
• 12:43
  six,
• 12:43
  nine
• 12:44
  months.
• 12:44
  That's
• 12:44
  a
• 12:45
  big
• 12:45
  one.
• 12:45
  Not
• 12:46
  believing
• 12:46
  the
• 12:46
  hype
• 12:46
  and
• 12:47
  drilling
• 12:47
  down
• 12:47
  to
• 12:47
  the
• 12:48
  numbers.
• 12:49
  Second
• 12:50
  mistake,
• 12:51
  a
• 12:51
  fundamental
• 12:52
  one,
• 12:52
  projecting
• 12:53
  your
• 12:53
  cash.
• 12:54
  Because
• 12:56
  cash
• 12:56
  is
• 12:56
  sanity,
• 12:57
  profits
• 12:57
  is
• 12:57
  vanity.
• 12:58
  And
• 12:58
  it's
• 12:58
  been
• 12:58
  said
• 12:58
  before,
• 12:59
  but
• 12:59
  it's
• 12:59
  very
• 12:59
  true.
• 13:00
  You've
• 13:00
  got
• 13:00
  to
• 13:00
  keep
• 13:01
  a
• 13:01
  handle
• 13:01
  of
• 13:02
  your
• 13:02
  cash
• 13:02
  flow
• 13:02
  and
• 13:03
  again,
• 13:03
  be
• 13:03
  realistic
• 13:04
  about
• 13:04
  your
• 13:05
  cash.
• 13:05
  So
• 13:05
  what
• 13:05
  I
• 13:06
  do
• 13:06
  go
• 13:06
  into
• 13:06
  a
• 13:06
  business
• 13:07
  is
• 13:07
  I
• 13:07
  establish
• 13:08
  two
• 13:09
  separate
• 13:09
  cash
• 13:10
  forecasts.
• 13:11
  The
• 13:11
  first
• 13:12
  is
• 13:12
  a
• 13:12
  detailed
• 13:13
  day
• 13:14
  by
• 13:14
  day
• 13:14
  one
• 13:16
  for
• 13:16
  at
• 13:16
  least
• 13:16
  three
• 13:17
  months,
• 13:18
  which
• 13:18
  is
• 13:18
  looking
• 13:18
  at
• 13:18
  the
• 13:19
  timing
• 13:19
  of
• 13:19
  various
• 13:20
  receipts
• 13:21
  and
• 13:21
  critically
• 13:21
  the
• 13:21
  payments.
• 13:22
  The
• 13:23
  bit
• 13:23
  that
• 13:24
  trips
• 13:25
  many
• 13:26
  small
• 13:27
  companies
• 13:27
  up
• 13:28
  is
• 13:28
  two
• 13:28
  main
• 13:29
  cost
• 13:29
  elements,
• 13:29
  which
• 13:30
  is
• 13:30
  the
• 13:30
  payroll
• 13:30
  at
• 13:30
  the
• 13:30
  end
• 13:31
  of
• 13:31
  the
• 13:31
  month
• 13:31
  and
• 13:32
  maybe
• 13:32
  vat,
• 13:33
  which
• 13:33
  is
• 13:33
  every
• 13:34
  three
• 13:34
  months.
• 13:34
  So
• 13:35
  if
• 13:35
  you
• 13:35
  plan
• 13:35
  out
• 13:35
  on
• 13:36
  a
• 13:36
  daily
• 13:36
  basis
• 13:38
  for
• 13:38
  the
• 13:38
  next
• 13:38
  three
• 13:38
  months
• 13:39
  or
• 13:39
  so,
• 13:39
  you
• 13:40
  can
• 13:40
  actually
• 13:40
  probably
• 13:40
  project
• 13:42
  down
• 13:42
  to
• 13:42
  the
• 13:42
  day
• 13:43
  the
• 13:44
  limits
• 13:44
  of
• 13:44
  your
• 13:44
  Runway
• 13:45
  and
• 13:45
  when
• 13:45
  you're
• 13:45
  going
• 13:45
  to
• 13:46
  run
• 13:46
  out
• 13:46
  of
• 13:46
  cash.
• 13:47
  The
• 13:47
  other
• 13:47
  forecast
• 13:48
  I
• 13:48
  put
• 13:48
  in
• 13:48
  is
• 13:49
  looking
• 13:50
  forward
• 13:50
  two
• 13:50
  years
• 13:51
  as
• 13:51
  part
• 13:51
  of
• 13:51
  your
• 13:51
  overall
• 13:52
  forward
• 13:53
  looking
• 13:53
  financial
• 13:53
  projections,
• 13:54
  P
• 13:54
  and
• 13:54
  L
• 13:55
  balance
• 13:55
  sheet
• 13:55
  and
• 13:55
  cash
• 13:55
  flow.
• 13:56
  I
• 13:56
  would
• 13:56
  do
• 13:56
  that
• 13:57
  for
• 13:57
  two
• 13:57
  years.
• 13:57
  I'm
• 13:57
  looking
• 13:58
  there
• 13:58
  at
• 13:58
  the
• 13:58
  month
• 13:58
  end
• 13:59
  balance
• 13:59
  that
• 14:00
  my
• 14:00
  projections
• 14:01
  throw
• 14:01
  out.
• 14:02
  The
• 14:02
  reason
• 14:02
  for
• 14:03
  that
• 14:03
  is
• 14:04
  you
• 14:04
  do
• 14:05
  not
• 14:05
  want
• 14:05
  to
• 14:05
  be
• 14:05
  in
• 14:05
  a
• 14:06
  position
• 14:07
  where
• 14:07
  you
• 14:08
  realize,
• 14:08
  say
• 14:08
  in
• 14:08
  a
• 14:09
  month's
• 14:09
  time
• 14:10
  that
• 14:10
  you're
• 14:10
  going
• 14:10
  to
• 14:10
  run
• 14:10
  out
• 14:11
  of
• 14:11
  cash
• 14:11
  because
• 14:11
  by
• 14:12
  then
• 14:12
  it's
• 14:12
  too
• 14:12
  late.
• 14:12
  Your
• 14:13
  options
• 14:13
  for
• 14:14
  then
• 14:14
  securing
• 14:14
  that
• 14:14
  cash
• 14:15
  are
• 14:15
  going
• 14:15
  to
• 14:15
  be
• 14:15
  very
• 14:15
  limited.
• 14:16
  You
• 14:17
  may
• 14:17
  be
• 14:17
  in
• 14:17
  a
• 14:17
  down
• 14:17
  round.
• 14:18
  You're
• 14:18
  going
• 14:18
  to
• 14:19
  get
• 14:19
  some
• 14:19
  extremely
• 14:20
  expensive
• 14:20
  financing
• 14:21
  from
• 14:21
  the
• 14:21
  bank
• 14:21
  or
• 14:22
  further
• 14:22
  institutions.
• 14:23
  The
• 14:24
  debt
• 14:24
  equity
• 14:24
  people
• 14:24
  probably
• 14:25
  won't
• 14:25
  speak
• 14:25
  to
• 14:26
  you
• 14:26
  because
• 14:26
  it's
• 14:26
  too
• 14:26
  late
• 14:27
  for
• 14:27
  them.
• 14:28
  But
• 14:28
  if
• 14:28
  you
• 14:28
  can
• 14:28
  project
• 14:29
  nine
• 14:29
  months
• 14:29
  out
• 14:30
  for
• 14:30
  when
• 14:31
  you
• 14:31
  need
• 14:31
  the
• 14:32
  cash,
• 14:32
  when
• 14:32
  your
• 14:32
  Runway
• 14:33
  is
• 14:33
  going
• 14:33
  to
• 14:33
  expire,
• 14:34
  that's
• 14:34
  the
• 14:34
  time
• 14:34
  then
• 14:35
  to
• 14:35
  seek
• 14:35
  cash.
• 14:36
  It's
• 14:36
  not
• 14:37
  doing
• 14:37
  it
• 14:37
  when
• 14:38
  you're
• 14:38
  a
• 14:38
  month
• 14:39
  out.
• 14:39
  And
• 14:39
  I
• 14:40
  think
• 14:40
  an
• 14:40
  important
• 14:40
  point
• 14:41
  that
• 14:41
  you
• 14:41
  made
• 14:41
  there
• 14:42
  is
• 14:42
  if
• 14:43
  you
• 14:43
  are
• 14:43
  uncomfortable
• 14:44
  looking
• 14:44
  at
• 14:44
  the
• 14:45
  numbers,
• 14:46
  essentially
• 14:46
  to
• 14:46
  put
• 14:47
  together
• 14:47
  a
• 14:47
  kind
• 14:47
  of
• 14:48
  short
• 14:48
  term
• 14:48
  and
• 14:48
  a
• 14:49
  long
• 14:49
  term,
• 14:49
  and
• 14:49
  look
• 14:50
  at
• 14:50
  things
• 14:51
  very
• 14:51
  heavily
• 14:52
  in
• 14:52
  detail
• 14:53
  in
• 14:53
  terms
• 14:53
  of
• 14:54
  the
• 14:54
  short
• 14:54
  term.
• 14:55
  But
• 14:55
  also
• 14:56
  the
• 14:56
  point
• 14:56
  you
• 14:57
  made,
• 14:57
  which
• 14:57
  I
• 14:57
  thought
• 14:58
  was
• 14:58
  really
• 14:58
  interesting,
• 14:59
  was
• 15:00
  the
• 15:00
  options
• 15:02
  to
• 15:02
  get
• 15:02
  you
• 15:02
  out
• 15:02
  of
• 15:03
  that
• 15:03
  situation
• 15:03
  should
• 15:04
  you
• 15:04
  find
• 15:04
  yourself
• 15:04
  in
• 15:04
  that
• 15:05
  situation.
• 15:06
  The
• 15:06
  longer
• 15:06
  you
• 15:06
  leave
• 15:07
  it,
• 15:07
  the
• 15:08
  more
• 15:08
  limited
• 15:08
  your
• 15:08
  options
• 15:09
  become
• 15:10
  in
• 15:10
  terms
• 15:10
  of
• 15:10
  where
• 15:11
  you
• 15:11
  can
• 15:11
  get
• 15:11
  finance
• 15:12
  and
• 15:12
  actually
• 15:13
  presumably
• 15:14
  at
• 15:15
  much
• 15:15
  poorer
• 15:16
  terms.
• 15:17
  Correct,
• 15:17
  that'd
• 15:18
  be
• 15:18
  fair.
• 15:19
  That's
• 15:19
  absolutely
• 15:20
  fair.
• 15:21
  So,
• 15:22
  founder,
• 15:23
  do
• 15:24
  not
• 15:24
  leave
• 15:24
  it
• 15:25
  too
• 15:25
  late
• 15:25
  because
• 15:26
  it
• 15:26
  actually
• 15:27
  will
• 15:27
  cost
• 15:27
  you
• 15:27
  your
• 15:28
  blood,
• 15:28
  sweat
• 15:28
  and
• 15:28
  tears.
• 15:29
  You
• 15:30
  may
• 15:30
  end
• 15:30
  up
• 15:30
  with
• 15:31
  terrible
• 15:31
  terms
• 15:33
  that
• 15:33
  you
• 15:33
  would
• 15:33
  have
• 15:33
  never,
• 15:34
  you
• 15:34
  know,
• 15:34
  never
• 15:35
  agreed
• 15:35
  to
• 15:35
  a
• 15:35
  couple
• 15:36
  of
• 15:36
  months
• 15:36
  ago.
• 15:36
  Is
• 15:36
  that
• 15:37
  fair?
• 15:37
  Have
• 15:37
  you
• 15:37
  seen
• 15:38
  that
• 15:38
  sort
• 15:38
  of
• 15:38
  thing
• 15:38
  happen?
• 15:39
  Yes,
• 15:39
  it's
• 15:39
  absolutely
• 15:40
  fair.
• 15:40
  And
• 15:40
  what
• 15:40
  I
• 15:40
  would
• 15:41
  also
• 15:41
  say
• 15:41
  is
• 15:41
  building
• 15:42
  a
• 15:42
  contingency.
• 15:42
  You
• 15:43
  may
• 15:43
  have
• 15:43
  a
• 15:43
  very
• 15:43
  great
• 15:43
  model
• 15:44
  that
• 15:44
  projects
• 15:45
  you
• 15:46
  needing,
• 15:47
  say
• 15:47
  185k
• 15:48
  of
• 15:48
  cash
• 15:49
  at
• 15:50
  some
• 15:50
  point
• 15:50
  in
• 15:50
  time.
• 15:51
  And
• 15:51
  you
• 15:51
  may
• 15:51
  think,
• 15:51
  okay,
• 15:52
  well
• 15:52
  that's
• 15:52
  for
• 15:52
  215k
• 15:54
  would
• 15:54
  not
• 15:55
  be
• 15:55
  enough
• 15:55
  of
• 15:55
  a
• 15:55
  buffer.
• 15:56
  In
• 15:56
  that
• 15:56
  case,
• 15:57
  you
• 15:57
  need
• 15:57
  to
• 15:57
  then
• 15:58
  sort
• 15:58
  of
• 15:58
  add
• 15:58
  on
• 15:58
  another
• 15:59
  at
• 15:59
  least
• 16:00
  100k,
• 16:00
  depending
• 16:00
  on
• 16:01
  the
• 16:01
  size
• 16:01
  of
• 16:01
  the
• 16:01
  business,
• 16:02
  7500k
• 16:03
  of
• 16:03
  cash
• 16:03
  to
• 16:04
  give
• 16:04
  you
• 16:04
  that
• 16:04
  buffer
• 16:05
  that
• 16:05
  says,
• 16:05
  okay,
• 16:05
  my
• 16:05
  projections
• 16:06
  Show
• 16:06
  I
• 16:06
  need
• 16:07
  180.
• 16:08
  In
• 16:08
  fact,
• 16:09
  I'm
• 16:09
  asking
• 16:09
  you,
• 16:10
  investor,
• 16:11
  Mr.
• 16:11
  Funder,
• 16:12
  for
• 16:12
  250
• 16:12
  or
• 16:13
  300
• 16:13
  to
• 16:13
  give
• 16:14
  me
• 16:14
  that
• 16:14
  buffer
• 16:14
  that
• 16:14
  I
• 16:15
  need.
• 16:15
  Because
• 16:17
  debtors
• 16:18
  will
• 16:18
  pay
• 16:18
  late.
• 16:19
  It
• 16:19
  happens
• 16:20
  all
• 16:20
  the
• 16:20
  time,
• 16:21
  hopefully.
• 16:21
  You
• 16:21
  may
• 16:21
  get
• 16:22
  the
• 16:22
  occasional
• 16:22
  one
• 16:22
  that
• 16:22
  goes
• 16:22
  bad,
• 16:23
  but
• 16:23
  either
• 16:24
  way,
• 16:24
  paying
• 16:24
  late,
• 16:25
  yes,
• 16:25
  unfortunately,
• 16:26
  it's
• 16:27
  something
• 16:27
  that
• 16:27
  small
• 16:28
  companies
• 16:28
  suffer.
• 16:29
  They
• 16:29
  shouldn't
• 16:29
  do,
• 16:30
  but
• 16:30
  they
• 16:30
  do.
• 16:31
  So
• 16:31
  you
• 16:31
  need
• 16:31
  to
• 16:32
  have
• 16:32
  that
• 16:32
  buffer
• 16:32
  in
• 16:33
  place
• 16:33
  as
• 16:33
  well.
• 16:33
  So
• 16:34
  don't
• 16:34
  leave
• 16:34
  it
• 16:34
  to
• 16:36
  the.
• 16:36
  Don't
• 16:37
  leave
• 16:37
  it
• 16:37
  too
• 16:37
  thin
• 16:38
  in
• 16:38
  terms
• 16:38
  of
• 16:38
  what
• 16:38
  your
• 16:38
  margins
• 16:39
  are.
• 16:39
  And
• 16:40
  is
• 16:40
  there
• 16:40
  any
• 16:40
  sort
• 16:41
  of,
• 16:41
  like,
• 16:41
  rule
• 16:41
  of
• 16:41
  thumb
• 16:42
  for
• 16:43
  cash
• 16:43
  flow?
• 16:44
  You
• 16:44
  know,
• 16:44
  some
• 16:44
  people
• 16:45
  I've
• 16:46
  spoken
• 16:46
  to
• 16:46
  over
• 16:46
  the
• 16:46
  years
• 16:47
  will
• 16:47
  say,
• 16:47
  make
• 16:48
  sure
• 16:48
  that
• 16:48
  you
• 16:48
  have
• 16:48
  six
• 16:49
  months
• 16:49
  worth
• 16:49
  of
• 16:50
  expenses
• 16:50
  in
• 16:51
  the
• 16:51
  bank
• 16:52
  should
• 16:52
  the
• 16:52
  worst
• 16:53
  happen.
• 16:53
  Some
• 16:53
  people
• 16:53
  say
• 16:54
  three.
• 16:54
  When
• 16:54
  you're
• 16:55
  in
• 16:55
  that
• 16:56
  exciting
• 16:57
  phase,
• 16:58
  which
• 16:58
  is,
• 16:58
  as
• 16:59
  you
• 16:59
  know,
• 16:59
  we
• 16:59
  call
• 16:59
  it
• 17:00
  the
• 17:00
  pressure
• 17:00
  stage.
• 17:00
  You
• 17:00
  call
• 17:01
  it
• 17:01
  the
• 17:01
  death
• 17:01
  zone.
• 17:02
  It's
• 17:02
  a
• 17:02
  time
• 17:03
  when
• 17:03
  obviously
• 17:04
  money
• 17:04
  is
• 17:05
  everything
• 17:05
  and
• 17:05
  time
• 17:05
  is
• 17:06
  everything.
• 17:06
  Is
• 17:07
  there
• 17:07
  a
• 17:07
  particular
• 17:07
  rule
• 17:08
  of
• 17:08
  thumb
• 17:08
  that
• 17:08
  you'd
• 17:09
  recommend
• 17:09
  to
• 17:09
  founders
• 17:10
  to
• 17:10
  be
• 17:10
  able
• 17:10
  to
• 17:11
  see
• 17:11
  that
• 17:11
  they've
• 17:11
  got
• 17:12
  X
• 17:13
  number
• 17:13
  of
• 17:14
  months,
• 17:14
  or
• 17:14
  is
• 17:15
  there
• 17:15
  another
• 17:15
  rule
• 17:15
  of
• 17:16
  thumb
• 17:16
  you
• 17:16
  might
• 17:16
  suggest?
• 17:17
  Actually,
• 17:17
  you
• 17:17
  said
• 17:17
  it.
• 17:18
  Six
• 17:18
  months
• 17:18
  I
• 17:19
  would
• 17:19
  always
• 17:19
  use
• 17:20
  in
• 17:20
  terms
• 17:20
  of
• 17:20
  have
• 17:20
  six
• 17:21
  months
• 17:21
  of
• 17:21
  expenses
• 17:21
  that
• 17:22
  you've
• 17:22
  always
• 17:22
  got
• 17:22
  up
• 17:22
  your
• 17:22
  sleeve.
• 17:23
  Don't
• 17:23
  be
• 17:24
  in
• 17:24
  a
• 17:24
  position
• 17:24
  where
• 17:24
  you
• 17:24
  have
• 17:24
  to
• 17:25
  sell
• 17:25
  your
• 17:25
  way
• 17:25
  out
• 17:25
  of
• 17:25
  the
• 17:26
  problem.
• 17:26
  I've
• 17:27
  come
• 17:27
  across
• 17:27
  some
• 17:28
  companies
• 17:28
  where,
• 17:29
  in
• 17:29
  order
• 17:29
  to
• 17:30
  keep
• 17:30
  the
• 17:30
  lights
• 17:30
  on,
• 17:30
  meet
• 17:31
  payroll
• 17:31
  at
• 17:31
  the
• 17:31
  end
• 17:31
  of
• 17:32
  the
• 17:32
  month,
• 17:32
  they've
• 17:33
  agreed
• 17:33
  a
• 17:33
  deal
• 17:33
  at
• 17:34
  a
• 17:34
  massive
• 17:34
  discount
• 17:35
  to
• 17:35
  what
• 17:35
  the
• 17:35
  product
• 17:35
  may
• 17:35
  be
• 17:36
  worth
• 17:36
  in
• 17:37
  order
• 17:37
  to
• 17:37
  get
• 17:37
  cash
• 17:37
  in,
• 17:38
  just
• 17:38
  to
• 17:38
  meet
• 17:38
  payroll.
• 17:39
  And
• 17:39
  that's
• 17:40
  the
• 17:40
  worst
• 17:40
  position
• 17:40
  to
• 17:41
  be
• 17:41
  in.
• 17:41
  Don't
• 17:42
  try
• 17:42
  and
• 17:42
  sell
• 17:42
  your
• 17:42
  way
• 17:42
  out
• 17:43
  of
• 17:43
  the
• 17:43
  problem.
• 17:43
  How
• 17:43
  often
• 17:44
  do
• 17:44
  you.
• 17:46
  Maybe
• 17:46
  you
• 17:46
  haven't
• 17:46
  been
• 17:47
  in
• 17:47
  that
• 17:47
  situation
• 17:47
  yourself,
• 17:48
  but
• 17:48
  how
• 17:48
  often
• 17:49
  have
• 17:49
  you
• 17:49
  heard
• 17:50
  of
• 17:50
  these
• 17:50
  horror
• 17:51
  stories
• 17:51
  where
• 17:51
  founders,
• 17:52
  in
• 17:52
  desperation,
• 17:53
  sell
• 17:53
  themselves
• 17:53
  out
• 17:54
  of
• 17:54
  a
• 17:54
  situation?
• 17:56
  Have
• 17:56
  you
• 17:56
  come
• 17:56
  across
• 17:57
  that
• 17:57
  sort
• 17:57
  of
• 17:57
  stuff
• 17:57
  on
• 17:57
  a
• 17:58
  regular
• 17:58
  basis?
• 17:58
  Yes,
• 17:59
  I
• 17:59
  have.
• 17:59
  Like
• 17:59
  I
• 18:00
  said,
• 18:00
  in
• 18:00
  one
• 18:00
  company
• 18:00
  that
• 18:01
  I've
• 18:01
  been
• 18:01
  involved
• 18:01
  in,
• 18:02
  they
• 18:02
  were
• 18:02
  in
• 18:02
  such
• 18:03
  a
• 18:03
  bind
• 18:03
  just
• 18:04
  to
• 18:04
  meet
• 18:04
  payroll,
• 18:05
  because
• 18:05
  that's
• 18:05
  fundamental.
• 18:06
  You
• 18:06
  miss
• 18:06
  payroll,
• 18:08
  you
• 18:08
  are
• 18:08
  then
• 18:08
  going
• 18:08
  to
• 18:09
  sow
• 18:09
  a
• 18:09
  whole
• 18:10
  load
• 18:11
  of
• 18:11
  trouble
• 18:11
  with
• 18:11
  your
• 18:11
  employees
• 18:12
  who
• 18:13
  may
• 18:13
  stand
• 18:13
  by
• 18:13
  you
• 18:13
  for
• 18:14
  a
• 18:14
  few
• 18:14
  days,
• 18:14
  maybe
• 18:15
  another
• 18:15
  month
• 18:15
  or
• 18:15
  so.
• 18:16
  But
• 18:16
  essentially
• 18:17
  you've
• 18:17
  got
• 18:17
  it's
• 18:18
  their
• 18:18
  life,
• 18:19
  so
• 18:19
  they
• 18:19
  ain't
• 18:19
  going
• 18:19
  to
• 18:19
  go
• 18:20
  too
• 18:20
  far
• 18:20
  without
• 18:20
  being
• 18:21
  paid.
• 18:22
  So
• 18:24
  meeting
• 18:24
  payroll
• 18:25
  is
• 18:25
  fundamental.
• 18:25
  And
• 18:26
  so
• 18:26
  this
• 18:26
  one
• 18:27
  company
• 18:27
  I
• 18:27
  know,
• 18:27
  they
• 18:28
  were
• 18:28
  in
• 18:28
  such
• 18:28
  a
• 18:28
  bind
• 18:29
  that
• 18:30
  the
• 18:30
  possibly
• 18:31
  they
• 18:31
  were
• 18:31
  selling
• 18:31
  to,
• 18:32
  they
• 18:32
  agreed
• 18:32
  to
• 18:33
  for
• 18:33
  cash
• 18:33
  on
• 18:33
  that
• 18:34
  day.
• 18:34
  I
• 18:35
  think
• 18:35
  they
• 18:35
  put
• 18:35
  the
• 18:35
  price
• 18:35
  by
• 18:36
  about
• 18:36
  50
• 18:36
  to
• 18:37
  60%
• 18:38
  just
• 18:38
  to
• 18:38
  get
• 18:38
  the
• 18:38
  cash
• 18:39
  in
• 18:39
  to
• 18:39
  keep
• 18:39
  the
• 18:39
  lights
• 18:39
  on,
• 18:40
  which
• 18:41
  you
• 18:41
  could
• 18:41
  say
• 18:41
  was
• 18:41
  the
• 18:41
  right
• 18:42
  thing
• 18:42
  to
• 18:42
  do
• 18:42
  because
• 18:42
  they
• 18:43
  kept
• 18:43
  the
• 18:43
  lights
• 18:43
  on.
• 18:43
  That
• 18:43
  company
• 18:44
  is
• 18:44
  now
• 18:44
  still
• 18:44
  going.
• 18:45
  However,
• 18:46
  it's
• 18:47
  a
• 18:47
  dangerous
• 18:47
  road
• 18:48
  that
• 18:48
  you
• 18:48
  run
• 18:48
  because
• 18:48
  the
• 18:49
  next
• 18:49
  month
• 18:49
  you're
• 18:49
  going
• 18:49
  to
• 18:50
  have
• 18:50
  the
• 18:50
  same
• 18:50
  issue
• 18:51
  potentially.
• 18:52
  And
• 18:52
  before
• 18:52
  you
• 18:52
  know
• 18:52
  it,
• 18:53
  you
• 18:53
  are
• 18:53
  unselling
• 18:54
  your
• 18:54
  product
• 18:54
  compared
• 18:55
  to
• 18:55
  its
• 18:55
  true
• 18:55
  worth.
• 18:55
  What
• 18:56
  you're
• 18:56
  saying
• 18:56
  is
• 18:57
  you
• 18:57
  probably
• 18:57
  see
• 18:58
  people
• 18:58
  make
• 18:58
  decisions
• 18:59
  that
• 18:59
  are
• 19:00
  in
• 19:00
  interest
• 19:00
  of
• 19:01
  their
• 19:01
  team,
• 19:02
  but
• 19:03
  may
• 19:03
  only
• 19:04
  prolong
• 19:04
  or
• 19:05
  postpone
• 19:05
  the
• 19:06
  pain,
• 19:06
  undervalue
• 19:07
  all
• 19:07
  the
• 19:08
  work
• 19:08
  they've
• 19:08
  been
• 19:08
  doing.
• 19:09
  Exactly.
• 19:10
  That's
• 19:10
  exactly
• 19:10
  right.
• 19:11
  Take
• 19:11
  these
• 19:11
  tips,
• 19:12
  folks.
• 19:12
  Number
• 19:13
  three,
• 19:14
  what
• 19:14
  is
• 19:14
  your
• 19:15
  third
• 19:16
  mistake
• 19:16
  you
• 19:16
  mentioned?
• 19:17
  Don't
• 19:17
  believe
• 19:17
  the
• 19:18
  hype,
• 19:18
  obviously,
• 19:19
  forecasting
• 19:21
  and
• 19:21
  cash
• 19:21
  flow.
• 19:22
  Number
• 19:23
  three,
• 19:23
  yeah,
• 19:24
  there's
• 19:25
  maybe
• 19:25
  music
• 19:25
  to
• 19:26
  your
• 19:26
  ears,
• 19:26
  but
• 19:27
  it's
• 19:28
  what
• 19:28
  I
• 19:28
  have
• 19:28
  seen
• 19:28
  marketing
• 19:29
  people
• 19:30
  stop
• 19:30
  marketing
• 19:31
  spend
• 19:31
  when
• 19:31
  times
• 19:31
  get
• 19:32
  tough.
• 19:32
  I
• 19:33
  get
• 19:33
  the
• 19:33
  attraction.
• 19:34
  You've
• 19:34
  got
• 19:36
  a
• 19:36
  cash
• 19:37
  situation
• 19:37
  coming
• 19:38
  up,
• 19:38
  you
• 19:38
  need
• 19:38
  to
• 19:39
  make
• 19:39
  cuts.
• 19:40
  And
• 19:40
  you
• 19:40
  look
• 19:41
  around
• 19:41
  at
• 19:41
  what
• 19:42
  is
• 19:42
  the
• 19:42
  easiest
• 19:42
  thing
• 19:43
  to
• 19:43
  cut.
• 19:43
  Marketing
• 19:44
  spend
• 19:44
  is
• 19:45
  the
• 19:45
  easiest
• 19:45
  thing
• 19:46
  to
• 19:46
  cut
• 19:47
  primarily
• 19:48
  because
• 19:49
  it's
• 19:49
  not
• 19:50
  the
• 19:50
  avenue
• 19:51
  that
• 19:51
  gives
• 19:51
  you
• 19:52
  the
• 19:53
  immediate
• 19:54
  benefits.
• 19:55
  It's
• 19:56
  removing
• 19:58
  some
• 19:58
  pain,
• 19:59
  but
• 19:59
  it's
• 19:59
  going
• 19:59
  to
• 19:59
  cause
• 20:00
  you
• 20:00
  a
• 20:00
  whole
• 20:00
  lot
• 20:00
  of
• 20:01
  pain
• 20:01
  down
• 20:01
  the
• 20:02
  road.
• 20:02
  The
• 20:02
  thing
• 20:03
  about
• 20:04
  marketing
• 20:05
  is
• 20:07
  it
• 20:07
  affects
• 20:07
  you
• 20:08
  six
• 20:08
  months
• 20:08
  later.
• 20:10
  So
• 20:10
  you
• 20:10
  can
• 20:10
  cut
• 20:10
  marketing
• 20:11
  costs,
• 20:11
  be
• 20:12
  that
• 20:12
  salaries,
• 20:12
  be
• 20:13
  that
• 20:13
  overheads
• 20:14
  or
• 20:14
  events
• 20:15
  that
• 20:15
  you
• 20:15
  pull
• 20:15
  out
• 20:15
  of
• 20:15
  or
• 20:16
  whatever
• 20:16
  it
• 20:16
  is,
• 20:17
  and
• 20:17
  you
• 20:18
  don't
• 20:18
  feel
• 20:18
  any
• 20:19
  immediate
• 20:19
  pain.
• 20:20
  You've
• 20:20
  gotten
• 20:20
  the
• 20:21
  games,
• 20:21
  you've
• 20:21
  got
• 20:21
  the
• 20:21
  costs,
• 20:22
  you
• 20:22
  don't
• 20:22
  feel
• 20:22
  any
• 20:22
  immediate
• 20:23
  pain,
• 20:23
  your
• 20:23
  sales
• 20:23
  don't
• 20:24
  drop
• 20:24
  off
• 20:24
  and
• 20:25
  it
• 20:25
  seems
• 20:25
  easy.
• 20:26
  Why
• 20:26
  are
• 20:26
  we
• 20:26
  spending
• 20:26
  this
• 20:27
  money
• 20:27
  on
• 20:27
  marketing
• 20:27
  where
• 20:28
  it
• 20:28
  affects
• 20:28
  you
• 20:28
  is
• 20:29
  six,
• 20:30
  nine
• 20:30
  months
• 20:30
  down
• 20:30
  the
• 20:30
  road
• 20:31
  when
• 20:31
  you
• 20:31
  suddenly
• 20:32
  realize
• 20:32
  my
• 20:33
  pipeline's
• 20:33
  going
• 20:33
  down.
• 20:34
  Why
• 20:34
  is
• 20:34
  that?
• 20:35
  And
• 20:35
  why
• 20:36
  we're
• 20:36
  not
• 20:36
  getting
• 20:36
  the
• 20:36
  number
• 20:36
  of
• 20:37
  leads
• 20:37
  in
• 20:37
  that
• 20:37
  we
• 20:37
  used
• 20:38
  to.
• 20:38
  And
• 20:38
  it's
• 20:39
  essentially
• 20:39
  because
• 20:40
  of
• 20:40
  that
• 20:40
  decision
• 20:40
  you
• 20:41
  took
• 20:41
  six,
• 20:41
  nine
• 20:41
  months
• 20:42
  before
• 20:42
  when
• 20:43
  you
• 20:43
  cut
• 20:43
  the
• 20:43
  marketing
• 20:44
  spend.
• 20:44
  I
• 20:44
  understand
• 20:45
  the
• 20:45
  attraction
• 20:46
  and
• 20:46
  if
• 20:46
  the
• 20:46
  patient
• 20:47
  is
• 20:47
  bleeding,
• 20:47
  you
• 20:47
  do
• 20:47
  what
• 20:48
  you
• 20:48
  can
• 20:48
  to
• 20:48
  stop
• 20:48
  the
• 20:48
  bleeding,
• 20:49
  but
• 20:49
  it
• 20:50
  will
• 20:50
  have
• 20:50
  long
• 20:51
  term
• 20:51
  consequences.
• 20:52
  So
• 20:52
  I
• 20:53
  would
• 20:54
  urge
• 20:54
  you
• 20:54
  as
• 20:55
  far
• 20:55
  as
• 20:55
  possible,
• 20:55
  in
• 20:55
  conjunction
• 20:56
  with
• 20:56
  all
• 20:56
  the
• 20:56
  other
• 20:56
  things
• 20:57
  that
• 20:57
  I've
• 20:57
  talked
• 20:57
  about,
• 20:58
  which
• 20:58
  is
• 20:58
  looking
• 20:58
  after
• 20:59
  your
• 20:59
  cash
• 20:59
  and
• 20:59
  don't
• 20:59
  believe
• 21:00
  in
• 21:00
  the
• 21:00
  hype.
• 21:01
  Try
• 21:01
  and
• 21:01
  safeguard
• 21:02
  your
• 21:02
  marketing
• 21:03
  or
• 21:03
  some
• 21:03
  semblance
• 21:04
  of
• 21:04
  your
• 21:04
  marketing
• 21:05
  operation
• 21:05
  if
• 21:05
  you're
• 21:06
  in
• 21:06
  that
• 21:06
  situation
• 21:06
  where
• 21:07
  you
• 21:07
  do
• 21:07
  have
• 21:07
  to
• 21:07
  cut
• 21:07
  costs.
• 21:08
  And
• 21:08
  actually,
• 21:08
  I
• 21:08
  think
• 21:09
  you
• 21:09
  made
• 21:09
  a
• 21:09
  really
• 21:10
  good
• 21:10
  point,
• 21:11
  which
• 21:11
  is
• 21:11
  it's
• 21:12
  not
• 21:12
  you're
• 21:12
  not
• 21:12
  going
• 21:12
  to
• 21:12
  feel
• 21:13
  the
• 21:13
  pain
• 21:13
  now
• 21:14
  necessarily,
• 21:14
  or
• 21:14
  even
• 21:15
  tomorrow,
• 21:16
  but
• 21:16
  in
• 21:16
  six
• 21:16
  months,
• 21:16
  nine
• 21:17
  months
• 21:17
  time.
• 21:17
  And
• 21:18
  I've
• 21:18
  seen
• 21:18
  it
• 21:18
  with
• 21:19
  clients
• 21:19
  of
• 21:19
  ours
• 21:19
  over
• 21:20
  the
• 21:20
  years
• 21:20
  where
• 21:21
  they
• 21:21
  come
• 21:21
  back
• 21:22
  a
• 21:22
  year
• 21:22
  later
• 21:22
  and
• 21:23
  say,
• 21:23
  we
• 21:23
  really
• 21:24
  need
• 21:24
  your
• 21:24
  help.
• 21:25
  By
• 21:26
  that
• 21:26
  point,
• 21:26
  it's
• 21:26
  a
• 21:27
  bit
• 21:27
  like
• 21:27
  starting
• 21:28
  training
• 21:28
  for
• 21:28
  a
• 21:28
  marathon
• 21:29
  all
• 21:29
  over
• 21:29
  again.
• 21:30
  You're
• 21:30
  back
• 21:30
  to
• 21:30
  square
• 21:31
  one.
• 21:31
  You've
• 21:31
  got
• 21:32
  to
• 21:32
  try
• 21:33
  and
• 21:33
  build
• 21:33
  things
• 21:33
  up
• 21:33
  again.
• 21:34
  It's
• 21:34
  an
• 21:34
  easy
• 21:35
  thing
• 21:35
  to
• 21:35
  do,
• 21:35
  it's
• 21:36
  an
• 21:36
  easy
• 21:36
  choice
• 21:36
  to
• 21:36
  make,
• 21:37
  as
• 21:37
  you
• 21:37
  say.
• 21:37
  But
• 21:37
  the
• 21:38
  interesting
• 21:39
  thing
• 21:39
  that
• 21:39
  you
• 21:39
  see
• 21:40
  is
• 21:40
  in
• 21:41
  times
• 21:41
  of
• 21:42
  economic
• 21:42
  strife,
• 21:43
  low
• 21:43
  consumer
• 21:43
  confidence,
• 21:44
  low
• 21:44
  consumer
• 21:45
  spending,
• 21:46
  businesses
• 21:46
  cut
• 21:47
  back.
• 21:48
  But
• 21:48
  often
• 21:48
  the
• 21:49
  ones
• 21:49
  that
• 21:49
  continue
• 21:50
  to
• 21:50
  market
• 21:51
  despite
• 21:51
  that
• 21:52
  are
• 21:52
  marketing
• 21:53
  in
• 21:53
  a
• 21:53
  much
• 21:53
  less
• 21:53
  noisy
• 21:54
  space.
• 21:56
  So
• 21:56
  there's
• 21:57
  also
• 21:57
  a
• 21:57
  net
• 21:57
  benefit
• 21:58
  that
• 21:58
  you
• 21:58
  can
• 21:59
  gain
• 21:59
  more
• 22:00
  share
• 22:00
  of
• 22:01
  your
• 22:01
  individual
• 22:01
  market
• 22:03
  in
• 22:03
  times
• 22:03
  where
• 22:04
  maybe
• 22:04
  things
• 22:05
  and
• 22:05
  it
• 22:05
  may
• 22:05
  be
• 22:06
  an
• 22:06
  overall
• 22:07
  industry
• 22:07
  or
• 22:07
  economy,
• 22:08
  reason
• 22:08
  or
• 22:09
  factor
• 22:10
  that
• 22:10
  is
• 22:10
  sort
• 22:11
  of
• 22:11
  affecting
• 22:12
  your
• 22:13
  marketing
• 22:13
  and
• 22:13
  sales
• 22:14
  efforts
• 22:14
  now,
• 22:15
  but
• 22:16
  it
• 22:16
  also
• 22:16
  is
• 22:16
  an
• 22:16
  opportunity.
• 22:17
  Most
• 22:18
  people
• 22:18
  make
• 22:18
  this
• 22:19
  decision
• 22:20
  too
• 22:20
  quickly
• 22:22
  and
• 22:23
  then
• 22:23
  pay
• 22:23
  for
• 22:24
  it
• 22:24
  down
• 22:24
  the
• 22:24
  line.
• 22:25
  I
• 22:26
  think
• 22:26
  there
• 22:26
  is
• 22:26
  a
• 22:26
  time
• 22:26
  with
• 22:27
  SaaS
• 22:27
  companies
• 22:27
  where
• 22:28
  you
• 22:28
  may
• 22:28
  have
• 22:28
  to
• 22:28
  sort
• 22:29
  of,
• 22:29
  if
• 22:29
  you've
• 22:29
  got
• 22:30
  avenues
• 22:31
  of
• 22:31
  cost,
• 22:31
  you've
• 22:31
  got
• 22:31
  to
• 22:31
  cut.
• 22:32
  A
• 22:32
  better
• 22:32
  position
• 22:33
  might
• 22:33
  be
• 22:33
  to
• 22:33
  say,
• 22:34
  okay,
• 22:34
  we're
• 22:34
  going
• 22:34
  to
• 22:35
  slow
• 22:35
  down
• 22:35
  the,
• 22:36
  the
• 22:36
  development
• 22:38
  of
• 22:39
  certain
• 22:40
  features
• 22:40
  that
• 22:41
  you're
• 22:41
  looking
• 22:41
  to
• 22:41
  put
• 22:41
  in,
• 22:42
  or
• 22:43
  you
• 22:43
  should
• 22:43
  consider,
• 22:44
  well,
• 22:44
  actually,
• 22:44
  do
• 22:44
  we
• 22:44
  need
• 22:45
  those
• 22:45
  features?
• 22:45
  Are
• 22:45
  they
• 22:45
  actually
• 22:46
  going
• 22:46
  to
• 22:46
  expand
• 22:46
  MATAM
• 22:47
  to
• 22:47
  any
• 22:47
  great
• 22:48
  degree?
• 22:48
  And
• 22:49
  I
• 22:49
  would
• 22:49
  probably
• 22:51
  urge
• 22:51
  SAS
• 22:51
  companies
• 22:52
  to
• 22:52
  think
• 22:52
  far
• 22:53
  more
• 22:53
  about,
• 22:53
  do
• 22:53
  I
• 22:54
  just
• 22:54
  slow
• 22:54
  down
• 22:54
  development
• 22:56
  and
• 22:56
  consider
• 22:56
  other
• 22:57
  areas
• 22:57
  of
• 22:57
  cost
• 22:58
  cuts?
• 22:58
  Maybe
• 22:59
  before
• 22:59
  marketing,
• 23:00
  I
• 23:00
  think
• 23:00
  marketing
• 23:00
  has
• 23:00
  to
• 23:00
  take
• 23:00
  their
• 23:01
  bit
• 23:01
  of
• 23:02
  the
• 23:02
  pain,
• 23:02
  maybe
• 23:02
  if
• 23:03
  you're
• 23:03
  in
• 23:03
  that
• 23:03
  situation.
• 23:05
  But
• 23:06
  when
• 23:07
  I've
• 23:07
  seen
• 23:07
  this
• 23:07
  being
• 23:07
  done
• 23:08
  and
• 23:08
  marketing
• 23:09
  has
• 23:09
  been
• 23:10
  slashed
• 23:10
  to
• 23:10
  too
• 23:11
  great
• 23:11
  a
• 23:11
  degree,
• 23:12
  it
• 23:12
  doesn't
• 23:13
  end
• 23:13
  well.
• 23:14
  It
• 23:14
  causes
• 23:14
  you
• 23:15
  a
• 23:15
  lot
• 23:15
  of
• 23:15
  pain
• 23:15
  down
• 23:15
  the
• 23:15
  line.
• 23:16
  It's
• 23:16
  a
• 23:16
  really
• 23:16
  interesting
• 23:17
  point
• 23:17
  you
• 23:17
  make.
• 23:17
  This
• 23:18
  kind
• 23:18
  of
• 23:18
  leads
• 23:18
  into
• 23:19
  a
• 23:19
  tangential
• 23:20
  number
• 23:20
  four,
• 23:21
  which
• 23:22
  is
• 23:22
  you
• 23:22
  talked
• 23:23
  about
• 23:23
  the
• 23:23
  idea
• 23:24
  of
• 23:24
  looking
• 23:24
  at
• 23:24
  the
• 23:25
  product
• 23:25
  roadmap,
• 23:26
  the
• 23:26
  features
• 23:27
  and
• 23:28
  being
• 23:28
  in
• 23:28
  a
• 23:28
  situation
• 23:29
  where
• 23:29
  in
• 23:29
  time
• 23:30
  where
• 23:30
  times
• 23:30
  are
• 23:31
  good
• 23:31
  and
• 23:31
  cash
• 23:32
  is
• 23:32
  flush.
• 23:33
  You
• 23:33
  probably
• 23:33
  agree
• 23:34
  with
• 23:34
  this.
• 23:34
  When
• 23:34
  cash
• 23:35
  is
• 23:35
  flush,
• 23:35
  when
• 23:35
  times
• 23:36
  are
• 23:36
  good,
• 23:36
  when
• 23:36
  confidence
• 23:37
  is
• 23:37
  high,
• 23:37
  when
• 23:38
  hype
• 23:38
  is
• 23:39
  strong,
• 23:39
  there
• 23:40
  is
• 23:40
  a
• 23:40
  huge
• 23:41
  investment
• 23:41
  in
• 23:41
  more
• 23:42
  features,
• 23:42
  more
• 23:42
  features,
• 23:43
  more
• 23:43
  features.
• 23:44
  Now,
• 23:45
  truthfully,
• 23:46
  in
• 23:46
  those
• 23:46
  times,
• 23:47
  probably
• 23:48
  not
• 23:48
  the
• 23:49
  best
• 23:49
  features
• 23:49
  are
• 23:50
  chosen.
• 23:50
  They
• 23:51
  might
• 23:51
  be
• 23:51
  the
• 23:51
  ones
• 23:51
  that
• 23:52
  people
• 23:52
  in
• 23:53
  the
• 23:53
  development
• 23:53
  team
• 23:53
  are
• 23:54
  most
• 23:54
  excited
• 23:54
  about.
• 23:54
  We're
• 23:55
  human
• 23:55
  beings.
• 23:57
  And
• 23:58
  it
• 23:58
  could
• 23:58
  also
• 23:59
  be
• 23:59
  true
• 24:00
  that
• 24:00
  focusing
• 24:01
  on
• 24:02
  what
• 24:02
  you're
• 24:02
  really
• 24:02
  great
• 24:03
  at
• 24:03
  as
• 24:03
  a
• 24:03
  SaaS
• 24:04
  company
• 24:05
  is
• 24:05
  also
• 24:06
  a
• 24:07
  useful
• 24:07
  thing
• 24:07
  to
• 24:07
  do.
• 24:08
  So
• 24:08
  kind
• 24:08
  of
• 24:08
  touching
• 24:09
  on
• 24:09
  your
• 24:09
  point
• 24:09
  there.
• 24:10
  Focus
• 24:11
  your
• 24:11
  energies
• 24:11
  and
• 24:12
  your
• 24:12
  finance
• 24:13
  on
• 24:13
  features
• 24:14
  that
• 24:14
  are
• 24:14
  going
• 24:14
  to
• 24:14
  move
• 24:15
  the
• 24:15
  needle
• 24:15
  rather
• 24:16
  than.
• 24:16
  And
• 24:16
  maybe
• 24:17
  times
• 24:17
  of
• 24:18
  being
• 24:18
  a
• 24:18
  bit
• 24:18
  more
• 24:18
  lean,
• 24:19
  give
• 24:19
  you
• 24:19
  an
• 24:20
  opportunity
• 24:20
  to
• 24:20
  do
• 24:20
  that.
• 24:21
  Would
• 24:21
  that
• 24:21
  be
• 24:21
  fair?
• 24:21
  Is
• 24:22
  there
• 24:22
  anything
• 24:22
  that
• 24:22
  you
• 24:22
  might
• 24:23
  add
• 24:23
  to
• 24:23
  that
• 24:23
  or.
• 24:26
  I
• 24:27
  was
• 24:27
  in
• 24:27
  one
• 24:27
  situation
• 24:28
  once
• 24:28
  where
• 24:29
  we
• 24:29
  opened
• 24:30
  it
• 24:30
  out
• 24:30
  to
• 24:30
  the
• 24:30
  developers
• 24:31
  in
• 24:32
  what
• 24:32
  do
• 24:32
  you
• 24:32
  guys
• 24:32
  want
• 24:32
  to
• 24:32
  develop?
• 24:33
  And
• 24:34
  that
• 24:34
  was
• 24:34
  a
• 24:34
  mistake
• 24:35
  because
• 24:36
  they
• 24:36
  came
• 24:37
  up
• 24:37
  with
• 24:38
  some
• 24:38
  really
• 24:38
  wacky
• 24:39
  stuff.
• 24:39
  And
• 24:39
  this
• 24:40
  was
• 24:40
  a
• 24:41
  Russian
• 24:41
  firm,
• 24:41
  Russian
• 24:42
  developers,
• 24:43
  and
• 24:43
  they
• 24:44
  want
• 24:44
  to
• 24:44
  develop
• 24:44
  stuff
• 24:45
  like
• 24:45
  Facebook
• 24:46
  applications
• 24:47
  which
• 24:47
  have
• 24:48
  no
• 24:48
  relevance.
• 24:48
  It
• 24:49
  was
• 24:49
  because
• 24:49
  they
• 24:49
  thought
• 24:49
  it
• 24:50
  was
• 24:50
  quite
• 24:50
  interesting
• 24:51
  and
• 24:51
  it
• 24:51
  was.
• 24:52
  The
• 24:52
  tech
• 24:53
  was
• 24:53
  quite
• 24:53
  involved
• 24:53
  and
• 24:53
  they
• 24:54
  kind
• 24:54
  of
• 24:54
  enjoyed
• 24:54
  doing
• 24:54
  it.
• 24:54
  But
• 24:55
  we
• 24:55
  were
• 24:55
  going
• 24:55
  to
• 24:55
  do
• 24:56
  a
• 24:56
  development
• 24:56
  based
• 24:57
  on
• 24:57
  what
• 24:58
  they
• 24:58
  personally
• 24:58
  were
• 24:59
  interested
• 24:59
  in
• 24:59
  rather
• 25:00
  than
• 25:00
  what
• 25:00
  was
• 25:00
  going
• 25:00
  to
• 25:00
  develop
• 25:01
  the
• 25:01
  product
• 25:01
  to
• 25:02
  a
• 25:02
  greater
• 25:02
  degree.
• 25:02
  That
• 25:02
  would
• 25:03
  help
• 25:03
  us
• 25:03
  to
• 25:03
  sell
• 25:03
  it
• 25:03
  more.
• 25:04
  I
• 25:04
  would
• 25:05
  suggest
• 25:05
  you
• 25:06
  establish
• 25:06
  what
• 25:06
  those
• 25:07
  features
• 25:07
  are
• 25:07
  and
• 25:07
  make
• 25:08
  sure
• 25:08
  you're
• 25:08
  doing
• 25:08
  it
• 25:08
  because
• 25:09
  there
• 25:09
  is
• 25:09
  a
• 25:09
  compelling
• 25:10
  need,
• 25:10
  there
• 25:10
  is
• 25:10
  a
• 25:10
  sufficient
• 25:11
  need
• 25:12
  within
• 25:12
  your
• 25:12
  customer
• 25:13
  base.
• 25:13
  It's
• 25:13
  going
• 25:13
  to
• 25:13
  expand
• 25:14
  your
• 25:14
  customer,
• 25:14
  your
• 25:15
  TAM
• 25:15
  to
• 25:16
  a
• 25:16
  good
• 25:16
  degree.
• 25:16
  You're
• 25:17
  not
• 25:17
  doing
• 25:17
  it
• 25:17
  because
• 25:17
  one
• 25:18
  customer
• 25:18
  thinks
• 25:18
  it's
• 25:18
  a
• 25:18
  really
• 25:19
  nice
• 25:19
  thing
• 25:19
  to
• 25:19
  do,
• 25:20
  because
• 25:20
  if
• 25:20
  you're
• 25:21
  not
• 25:21
  able
• 25:21
  to
• 25:21
  resell
• 25:21
  it,
• 25:22
  there's
• 25:22
  no
• 25:22
  point
• 25:22
  in
• 25:22
  doing
• 25:22
  it.
• 25:23
  Yeah,
• 25:24
  custom
• 25:25
  features
• 25:25
  are
• 25:25
  a
• 25:26
  SaaS
• 25:26
  killer
• 25:26
  as
• 25:27
  well.
• 25:27
  You
• 25:28
  know,
• 25:28
  adding
• 25:28
  loads
• 25:29
  of
• 25:29
  custom
• 25:29
  functionality.
• 25:30
  Which
• 25:31
  actually
• 25:31
  brings
• 25:31
  me
• 25:32
  to
• 25:32
  a
• 25:32
  key
• 25:32
  point,
• 25:33
  Mark.
• 25:33
  When
• 25:33
  you
• 25:34
  and
• 25:34
  I
• 25:34
  first
• 25:34
  sat
• 25:35
  down
• 25:35
  and
• 25:35
  spoke,
• 25:35
  you
• 25:36
  talked
• 25:36
  about
• 25:36
  yourself
• 25:36
  as
• 25:36
  the
• 25:37
  Cyndical
• 25:37
  fd,
• 25:38
  which
• 25:38
  I
• 25:38
  love.
• 25:39
  So
• 25:40
  let's
• 25:40
  talk
• 25:40
  about
• 25:41
  the
• 25:41
  classic
• 25:41
  tension.
• 25:42
  I
• 25:42
  see
• 25:42
  it,
• 25:42
  you
• 25:43
  see
• 25:43
  it.
• 25:43
  The
• 25:44
  CEO
• 25:44
  and
• 25:44
  the
• 25:45
  CMO
• 25:45
  may
• 25:45
  want
• 25:46
  to
• 25:46
  spend.
• 25:46
  The
• 25:47
  CFO
• 25:47
  wants
• 25:48
  to
• 25:49
  keep
• 25:49
  control
• 25:50
  of
• 25:50
  things
• 25:50
  and
• 25:50
  make
• 25:51
  sure
• 25:51
  things
• 25:51
  don't
• 25:51
  get
• 25:52
  out
• 25:52
  of
• 25:52
  control.
• 25:53
  From
• 25:53
  your
• 25:53
  cynical
• 25:54
  FD
• 25:54
  perspective,
• 25:55
  how
• 25:55
  do
• 25:56
  you
• 25:56
  help
• 25:56
  a
• 25:56
  founder
• 25:57
  prove
• 25:57
  marketing
• 25:58
  ROI
• 25:58
  and
• 25:58
  grow
• 25:59
  to
• 25:59
  a
• 26:00
  skeptical
• 26:00
  board
• 26:01
  in
• 26:01
  that
• 26:01
  situation
• 26:02
  where
• 26:02
  you
• 26:02
  got
• 26:02
  that
• 26:02
  tension
• 26:03
  with
• 26:03
  the
• 26:04
  CEO,
• 26:04
  the
• 26:04
  CMO
• 26:05
  versus
• 26:06
  the
• 26:06
  cfo?
• 26:07
  I'm
• 26:07
  not
• 26:07
  that
• 26:07
  cynical,
• 26:08
  actually.
• 26:08
  I'm
• 26:09
  kind
• 26:09
  of
• 26:09
  taking
• 26:09
  the
• 26:09
  view
• 26:10
  that
• 26:10
  I
• 26:10
  want
• 26:11
  to
• 26:11
  believe.
• 26:12
  Have
• 26:12
  you
• 26:12
  heard
• 26:13
  of
• 26:13
  a
• 26:13
  guy
• 26:13
  called
• 26:13
  John
• 26:13
  Wanamaker?
• 26:15
  No.
• 26:16
  I
• 26:16
  will
• 26:16
  Google
• 26:17
  him.
• 26:17
  So
• 26:18
  John
• 26:18
  Wanamaker
• 26:19
  was
• 26:19
  an
• 26:19
  American
• 26:20
  industrialist
• 26:20
  in
• 26:21
  the
• 26:21
  19th
• 26:21
  century.
• 26:22
  You
• 26:22
  will
• 26:22
  be
• 26:22
  aware
• 26:22
  of
• 26:23
  his
• 26:23
  quote,
• 26:24
  famous
• 26:24
  quote,
• 26:24
  which
• 26:25
  is,
• 26:25
  look,
• 26:25
  half
• 26:25
  the
• 26:25
  money
• 26:26
  I
• 26:26
  spend
• 26:26
  on
• 26:26
  advertising
• 26:27
  is
• 26:27
  wasted.
• 26:28
  The
• 26:28
  trouble
• 26:29
  is
• 26:29
  I
• 26:29
  just
• 26:29
  don't
• 26:30
  know
• 26:30
  which
• 26:30
  half
• 26:31
  the
• 26:31
  other
• 26:31
  one.
• 26:32
  You
• 26:32
  know,
• 26:32
  the
• 26:32
  quotes.
• 26:32
  You
• 26:33
  didn't
• 26:33
  know
• 26:33
  who
• 26:33
  said
• 26:33
  it.
• 26:34
  John
• 26:34
  Wanamaker
• 26:35
  and
• 26:35
  I
• 26:36
  kind
• 26:36
  of
• 26:36
  take
• 26:36
  the
• 26:36
  same
• 26:36
  view.
• 26:37
  Look,
• 26:38
  Marketing
• 26:39
  has
• 26:39
  this
• 26:40
  attribution
• 26:40
  problem
• 26:41
  of
• 26:43
  identifying
• 26:44
  which
• 26:45
  wins
• 26:45
  come
• 26:45
  from
• 26:46
  which
• 26:46
  particular
• 26:47
  marketing
• 26:48
  avenues.
• 26:49
  And
• 26:51
  you
• 26:51
  just
• 26:51
  have
• 26:51
  to
• 26:51
  be
• 26:52
  very
• 26:52
  realistic.
• 26:53
  I
• 26:53
  think
• 26:54
  with
• 26:54
  that
• 26:54
  and
• 26:54
  as
• 26:55
  far
• 26:55
  as
• 26:55
  you
• 26:55
  can,
• 26:55
  within
• 26:56
  a
• 26:56
  SaaS
• 26:56
  company,
• 26:56
  you
• 26:56
  have
• 26:57
  to
• 26:57
  go
• 26:57
  down
• 26:57
  that
• 26:57
  attribution
• 26:58
  route
• 26:59
  and
• 26:59
  try
• 26:59
  and
• 26:59
  find
• 27:00
  out,
• 27:00
  okay,
• 27:00
  what
• 27:00
  has
• 27:00
  worked.
• 27:01
  Bearing
• 27:02
  in
• 27:02
  mind
• 27:02
  you
• 27:02
  have
• 27:02
  to
• 27:02
  have
• 27:02
  a
• 27:02
  balance
• 27:03
  of
• 27:04
  marketing
• 27:04
  activities.
• 27:05
  I
• 27:05
  am
• 27:06
  now
• 27:06
  more
• 27:06
  convinced
• 27:07
  than
• 27:07
  I
• 27:07
  ever
• 27:07
  have
• 27:08
  been
• 27:08
  of
• 27:08
  the
• 27:08
  value
• 27:08
  of
• 27:09
  brand.
• 27:09
  I
• 27:10
  think
• 27:10
  earlier
• 27:10
  in
• 27:10
  my
• 27:10
  career
• 27:11
  I
• 27:11
  was
• 27:11
  a
• 27:11
  bit
• 27:11
  dismissive
• 27:12
  of
• 27:12
  it,
• 27:12
  but
• 27:12
  I
• 27:12
  do
• 27:13
  understand
• 27:13
  it
• 27:13
  now.
• 27:14
  And
• 27:14
  the
• 27:14
  fact
• 27:14
  that
• 27:15
  you've
• 27:15
  established
• 27:16
  a
• 27:16
  brand,
• 27:16
  you've
• 27:16
  established
• 27:17
  a
• 27:17
  presence
• 27:17
  in
• 27:17
  the
• 27:18
  market,
• 27:18
  you've
• 27:18
  established
• 27:18
  a
• 27:18
  little
• 27:19
  bit
• 27:19
  of
• 27:19
  longevity,
• 27:20
  actually,
• 27:20
  that
• 27:20
  counts
• 27:20
  as
• 27:21
  something,
• 27:21
  to
• 27:22
  be
• 27:22
  honest.
• 27:23
  So
• 27:23
  I
• 27:23
  do
• 27:23
  understand
• 27:24
  that.
• 27:24
  However,
• 27:24
  I
• 27:25
  do
• 27:25
  draw
• 27:25
  the
• 27:25
  line
• 27:26
  at
• 27:27
  some
• 27:27
  events
• 27:28
  where
• 27:28
  you
• 27:29
  have
• 27:29
  the
• 27:29
  capacity
• 27:29
  to
• 27:29
  spend
• 27:29
  an
• 27:30
  awful
• 27:30
  lot
• 27:30
  of
• 27:30
  money
• 27:30
  and
• 27:31
  not
• 27:31
  get
• 27:31
  any
• 27:31
  immediate
• 27:32
  value.
• 27:33
  If
• 27:33
  you
• 27:33
  come
• 27:33
  out
• 27:33
  of
• 27:33
  that
• 27:34
  with
• 27:34
  no
• 27:34
  real
• 27:34
  leads
• 27:35
  and
• 27:35
  it
• 27:35
  was
• 27:35
  good
• 27:35
  for
• 27:36
  band
• 27:36
  building,
• 27:36
  that
• 27:37
  maybe
• 27:37
  isn't
• 27:37
  sufficient
• 27:37
  in
• 27:38
  itself.
• 27:39
  So
• 27:40
  I
• 27:40
  think
• 27:40
  I
• 27:41
  take
• 27:41
  the
• 27:41
  view
• 27:41
  I
• 27:41
  want
• 27:42
  to
• 27:42
  believe.
• 27:42
  Now
• 27:43
  show
• 27:43
  me
• 27:43
  why
• 27:44
  that
• 27:44
  event
• 27:44
  will
• 27:45
  bring
• 27:45
  the
• 27:45
  same.
• 27:45
  What
• 27:45
  did
• 27:46
  we
• 27:46
  do
• 27:46
  last
• 27:46
  year
• 27:46
  at
• 27:46
  that
• 27:47
  event?
• 27:48
  And
• 27:48
  if
• 27:48
  the
• 27:48
  answer
• 27:49
  is,
• 27:49
  well,
• 27:49
  not
• 27:49
  a
• 27:49
  lot,
• 27:50
  so
• 27:50
  what's
• 27:50
  going
• 27:50
  to
• 27:50
  happen
• 27:50
  this
• 27:50
  year
• 27:51
  is
• 27:51
  going
• 27:51
  to
• 27:51
  be
• 27:51
  different?
• 27:52
  What
• 27:53
  has
• 27:53
  that
• 27:53
  SEO
• 27:54
  spend
• 27:55
  given
• 27:55
  us
• 27:55
  in
• 27:55
  the
• 27:56
  past?
• 27:56
  And
• 27:56
  therefore,
• 27:58
  is
• 27:58
  it
• 27:58
  something
• 27:58
  that's
• 27:59
  proven
• 27:59
  and
• 27:59
  therefore
• 27:59
  we
• 28:00
  should
• 28:00
  do
• 28:00
  more
• 28:00
  of,
• 28:01
  or
• 28:02
  is
• 28:02
  it
• 28:02
  not
• 28:02
  proven?
• 28:02
  And
• 28:03
  actually
• 28:04
  it's
• 28:04
  not.
• 28:04
  We're
• 28:05
  guessing,
• 28:05
  we're
• 28:05
  hoping,
• 28:06
  rather
• 28:06
  than
• 28:06
  actually
• 28:07
  any
• 28:08
  real
• 28:08
  defined
• 28:10
  strategy
• 28:10
  and
• 28:11
  thought
• 28:11
  gone
• 28:11
  into
• 28:11
  it.
• 28:12
  You
• 28:12
  talked
• 28:12
  about
• 28:12
  the
• 28:13
  idea
• 28:13
  of
• 28:14
  attribution.
• 28:14
  It's
• 28:15
  a
• 28:15
  tough
• 28:15
  one
• 28:15
  because
• 28:16
  inevitably
• 28:16
  there
• 28:17
  are
• 28:17
  kind
• 28:17
  of
• 28:17
  contributors.
• 28:18
  That
• 28:19
  is,
• 28:19
  they
• 28:19
  may
• 28:19
  have
• 28:19
  seen
• 28:20
  you
• 28:20
  in
• 28:20
  15
• 28:20
  different
• 28:21
  places.
• 28:22
  And
• 28:23
  then
• 28:23
  there
• 28:23
  are
• 28:23
  decision
• 28:24
  makers.
• 28:24
  And
• 28:25
  from
• 28:25
  an
• 28:25
  FD's
• 28:26
  perspective,
• 28:27
  and
• 28:27
  what
• 28:27
  I
• 28:27
  mean
• 28:28
  by
• 28:28
  that
• 28:28
  is
• 28:28
  you
• 28:29
  see
• 28:29
  loads
• 28:29
  of
• 28:29
  things
• 28:30
  and
• 28:30
  it's
• 28:30
  like,
• 28:30
  oh,
• 28:31
  they're
• 28:31
  there.
• 28:31
  And
• 28:31
  it
• 28:32
  subtly
• 28:32
  influences
• 28:33
  things.
• 28:34
  It
• 28:34
  could
• 28:34
  be
• 28:34
  at
• 28:35
  an
• 28:35
  event,
• 28:35
  for
• 28:36
  example,
• 28:36
  or
• 28:37
  anything.
• 28:37
  Right.
• 28:38
  There
• 28:38
  can
• 28:38
  be
• 28:38
  little
• 28:38
  touch
• 28:39
  points
• 28:39
  along
• 28:39
  the
• 28:39
  way.
• 28:40
  And
• 28:40
  then
• 28:40
  of
• 28:40
  course,
• 28:40
  there's
• 28:41
  the
• 28:41
  time
• 28:41
  where
• 28:41
  they
• 28:41
  go,
• 28:42
  do
• 28:42
  you
• 28:42
  know
• 28:42
  what?
• 28:42
  I'm
• 28:42
  ready
• 28:43
  now.
• 28:43
  And
• 28:44
  there's
• 28:44
  two
• 28:44
  components
• 28:45
  to
• 28:45
  that,
• 28:45
  right?
• 28:46
  I
• 28:46
  knew
• 28:46
  who
• 28:46
  you
• 28:46
  were,
• 28:47
  I
• 28:47
  knew
• 28:47
  what
• 28:47
  you
• 28:48
  offered,
• 28:49
  three
• 28:49
  components,
• 28:50
  and
• 28:50
  I
• 28:50
  knew
• 28:51
  how
• 28:51
  to
• 28:51
  find
• 28:51
  you.
• 28:52
  And,
• 28:53
  you
• 28:53
  know,
• 28:53
  that's
• 28:53
  a
• 28:54
  journey.
• 28:54
  It's
• 28:54
  interesting
• 28:55
  when
• 28:55
  you
• 28:55
  talk
• 28:55
  about
• 28:55
  the
• 28:56
  journey
• 28:57
  and
• 28:57
  sales
• 28:57
  and
• 28:58
  certainly
• 28:58
  marketing.
• 28:59
  What's
• 28:59
  your
• 28:59
  number
• 29:00
  one
• 29:00
  red
• 29:00
  flag
• 29:01
  from
• 29:01
  a
• 29:02
  finance
• 29:02
  perspective
• 29:04
  in
• 29:04
  terms
• 29:04
  of
• 29:04
  that
• 29:05
  marketing
• 29:06
  element?
• 29:06
  Because
• 29:07
  you
• 29:07
  touched
• 29:07
  on
• 29:07
  the
• 29:07
  idea
• 29:08
  of
• 29:08
  spending
• 29:08
  money
• 29:08
  at
• 29:08
  events,
• 29:09
  SEO,
• 29:09
  et
• 29:10
  cetera,
• 29:10
  from
• 29:10
  a
• 29:10
  Purely
• 29:11
  financial
• 29:11
  perspective.
• 29:13
  Is
• 29:13
  there
• 29:13
  a
• 29:14
  particular
• 29:14
  thing
• 29:14
  that
• 29:14
  you
• 29:15
  could
• 29:15
  suggest
• 29:15
  that
• 29:16
  founders
• 29:16
  look
• 29:16
  at?
• 29:17
  I
• 29:17
  won't
• 29:17
  take
• 29:17
  it
• 29:17
  personally
• 29:18
  as
• 29:18
  a
• 29:18
  marketer.
• 29:18
  I'm
• 29:19
  just
• 29:19
  intrigued
• 29:19
  what,
• 29:20
  what,
• 29:20
  what
• 29:20
  your
• 29:21
  side
• 29:21
  of
• 29:21
  the
• 29:21
  table
• 29:21
  looks
• 29:22
  at.
• 29:22
  I
• 29:22
  think
• 29:22
  what
• 29:22
  I'm
• 29:23
  doing
• 29:23
  when
• 29:23
  I'm
• 29:23
  questioning
• 29:24
  the
• 29:24
  CMO
• 29:25
  on
• 29:26
  items
• 29:27
  like
• 29:27
  that,
• 29:28
  it's
• 29:29
  trying
• 29:29
  to
• 29:29
  ascertain,
• 29:30
  okay,
• 29:30
  you're
• 29:30
  suggesting
• 29:31
  this,
• 29:31
  but
• 29:31
  are
• 29:31
  they
• 29:32
  coming
• 29:32
  across
• 29:32
  more.
• 29:33
  I
• 29:33
  hope
• 29:33
  this
• 29:34
  activity
• 29:34
  works
• 29:35
  rather
• 29:35
  than
• 29:37
  my
• 29:37
  recommendation
• 29:38
  is
• 29:38
  that
• 29:38
  this
• 29:38
  will
• 29:39
  work.
• 29:39
  If
• 29:39
  I'm
• 29:40
  sensing
• 29:40
  more
• 29:40
  hope
• 29:41
  than
• 29:41
  belief,
• 29:42
  I'm
• 29:42
  going
• 29:42
  to
• 29:43
  query
• 29:43
  it.
• 29:44
  So
• 29:44
  it's
• 29:44
  really
• 29:45
  looking
• 29:45
  at
• 29:45
  the
• 29:46
  zoom,
• 29:46
  asking
• 29:46
  detailed
• 29:47
  questions.
• 29:47
  Okay,
• 29:48
  so
• 29:48
  you
• 29:48
  want
• 29:48
  to
• 29:48
  attend
• 29:48
  that
• 29:48
  event.
• 29:49
  What's
• 29:49
  the
• 29:49
  footfall
• 29:50
  of
• 29:50
  that
• 29:50
  event?
• 29:51
  And
• 29:51
  then.
• 29:51
  Okay,
• 29:52
  well
• 29:52
  the
• 29:52
  footfall
• 29:52
  is
• 29:52
  quite
• 29:53
  good.
• 29:53
  Okay,
• 29:53
  great.
• 29:53
  But
• 29:53
  who
• 29:54
  are
• 29:54
  the
• 29:54
  attendees
• 29:54
  going
• 29:55
  to
• 29:55
  be?
• 29:55
  Are
• 29:56
  they
• 29:56
  the
• 29:56
  kind
• 29:57
  of,
• 29:57
  are
• 29:57
  they
• 29:58
  in
• 29:58
  our
• 29:58
  ICP
• 29:59
  of
• 29:59
  our
• 29:59
  products
• 30:00
  buyers?
• 30:01
  Because
• 30:01
  if
• 30:01
  they're
• 30:01
  not,
• 30:02
  why
• 30:02
  are
• 30:02
  we
• 30:02
  going?
• 30:03
  And
• 30:04
  it's
• 30:04
  really
• 30:04
  digging
• 30:04
  into
• 30:05
  that
• 30:06
  and
• 30:06
  asking
• 30:06
  the
• 30:07
  question
• 30:07
  so
• 30:08
  that
• 30:08
  the
• 30:08
  CMO
• 30:09
  effectively
• 30:10
  does
• 30:10
  their
• 30:11
  homework
• 30:11
  before
• 30:11
  they
• 30:12
  come
• 30:12
  and
• 30:12
  request
• 30:12
  the
• 30:12
  car,
• 30:13
  before
• 30:13
  they
• 30:13
  request
• 30:13
  the
• 30:14
  funding
• 30:15
  for
• 30:15
  that.
• 30:16
  So
• 30:17
  establishing
• 30:17
  a
• 30:17
  discipline
• 30:18
  whereby,
• 30:18
  okay,
• 30:19
  I
• 30:19
  know
• 30:19
  my
• 30:19
  CFO
• 30:20
  is
• 30:20
  going
• 30:20
  to
• 30:20
  ask
• 30:20
  me
• 30:20
  about
• 30:20
  this,
• 30:21
  this
• 30:21
  and
• 30:21
  this.
• 30:21
  So
• 30:21
  I'm
• 30:21
  going
• 30:22
  to
• 30:22
  do
• 30:22
  that
• 30:22
  homework
• 30:22
  in
• 30:23
  advance
• 30:23
  and
• 30:23
  then
• 30:24
  they
• 30:24
  come
• 30:24
  prepared.
• 30:25
  CMOs
• 30:25
  be
• 30:26
  prepared
• 30:26
  for
• 30:27
  Mark
• 30:27
  to
• 30:27
  walk
• 30:27
  through
• 30:28
  that
• 30:28
  door
• 30:30
  and
• 30:30
  ask
• 30:30
  you
• 30:31
  all
• 30:31
  those
• 30:31
  questions.
• 30:32
  Look
• 30:32
  Mark,
• 30:32
  this,
• 30:33
  this
• 30:33
  time's
• 30:33
  running
• 30:34
  out
• 30:34
  here.
• 30:34
  What
• 30:34
  I
• 30:34
  wanted
• 30:35
  to
• 30:35
  do
• 30:35
  was
• 30:36
  just
• 30:36
  do
• 30:36
  a
• 30:37
  really
• 30:37
  good
• 30:37
  wrap
• 30:38
  up
• 30:38
  something
• 30:39
  that
• 30:39
  our,
• 30:39
  our
• 30:40
  founder
• 30:40
  friends
• 30:40
  can
• 30:41
  take
• 30:41
  away
• 30:41
  from
• 30:41
  this.
• 30:43
  If
• 30:43
  you
• 30:43
  could
• 30:43
  give
• 30:43
  a
• 30:44
  founder
• 30:44
  right
• 30:44
  now
• 30:45
  who's
• 30:45
  firefighting
• 30:46
  and
• 30:46
  most
• 30:47
  of
• 30:47
  them
• 30:47
  are
• 30:47
  especially
• 30:48
  technical
• 30:48
  founders
• 30:49
  are
• 30:49
  firefighting
• 30:50
  in
• 30:51
  silence.
• 30:52
  What's
• 30:53
  one
• 30:53
  piece
• 30:53
  of
• 30:54
  common
• 30:54
  sense
• 30:55
  financial
• 30:55
  discipline
• 30:56
  that
• 30:56
  they
• 30:56
  might
• 30:57
  have
• 30:57
  overlooked
• 30:57
  that
• 30:57
  could
• 30:58
  really
• 30:58
  help
• 30:58
  them
• 30:59
  in
• 30:59
  that
• 30:59
  situation?
• 31:00
  This
• 31:01
  is
• 31:01
  a
• 31:01
  difficult
• 31:01
  one.
• 31:01
  It
• 31:01
  involves
• 31:02
  spending
• 31:02
  money
• 31:03
  in
• 31:03
  one
• 31:03
  sense.
• 31:03
  So
• 31:03
  it
• 31:04
  may
• 31:04
  not
• 31:04
  seem
• 31:04
  like
• 31:04
  common
• 31:05
  sense.
• 31:05
  I
• 31:05
  do
• 31:05
  understand
• 31:06
  sometimes
• 31:06
  that's
• 31:07
  going
• 31:07
  to
• 31:07
  be
• 31:07
  a
• 31:07
  very
• 31:07
  difficult
• 31:08
  ask.
• 31:09
  But
• 31:09
  when
• 31:09
  you're
• 31:09
  firefighting,
• 31:10
  quite
• 31:10
  often
• 31:10
  as
• 31:10
  a
• 31:11
  founder,
• 31:12
  you
• 31:12
  are
• 31:12
  then
• 31:12
  going
• 31:12
  into
• 31:13
  areas
• 31:13
  that
• 31:14
  you
• 31:14
  are
• 31:14
  not
• 31:14
  a
• 31:14
  specialist
• 31:15
  in.
• 31:15
  Founders
• 31:16
  do
• 31:16
  a
• 31:16
  generally
• 31:17
  a
• 31:17
  great
• 31:17
  job.
• 31:17
  Their
• 31:18
  background
• 31:18
  may
• 31:18
  be
• 31:18
  in
• 31:18
  tech,
• 31:19
  it
• 31:19
  may
• 31:19
  be
• 31:19
  in
• 31:19
  sales,
• 31:19
  maybe
• 31:20
  in
• 31:20
  marketing,
• 31:21
  but
• 31:21
  then
• 31:21
  when
• 31:21
  you're
• 31:21
  a
• 31:22
  founder,
• 31:22
  you
• 31:22
  then
• 31:22
  wear
• 31:23
  other
• 31:23
  hats.
• 31:23
  You
• 31:24
  go
• 31:24
  into
• 31:24
  hr,
• 31:25
  you
• 31:25
  go
• 31:25
  into
• 31:25
  finance,
• 31:26
  you
• 31:26
  go
• 31:26
  into
• 31:27
  marketing
• 31:27
  maybe
• 31:27
  and
• 31:28
  you
• 31:28
  step
• 31:28
  out
• 31:28
  your
• 31:28
  comfort
• 31:29
  zone,
• 31:29
  but
• 31:30
  it's
• 31:30
  not
• 31:31
  your
• 31:31
  specialist
• 31:32
  area.
• 31:33
  And
• 31:34
  sometimes
• 31:34
  what
• 31:35
  you
• 31:35
  need
• 31:35
  to
• 31:35
  do
• 31:36
  as
• 31:36
  a
• 31:37
  founder
• 31:37
  is
• 31:37
  going
• 31:38
  back
• 31:38
  to
• 31:38
  what
• 31:38
  you're
• 31:39
  good
• 31:39
  at.
• 31:39
  Be
• 31:40
  that
• 31:40
  tech,
• 31:40
  be
• 31:41
  that
• 31:41
  marketing,
• 31:41
  be
• 31:41
  that
• 31:42
  sales
• 31:43
  experience
• 31:44
  is
• 31:44
  really
• 31:44
  Finance,
• 31:45
  actually,
• 31:46
  and
• 31:46
  hire
• 31:46
  a
• 31:47
  specialist.
• 31:47
  It
• 31:48
  may
• 31:48
  be
• 31:48
  on
• 31:48
  a
• 31:48
  fractional
• 31:49
  basis,
• 31:50
  it
• 31:50
  may
• 31:50
  be
• 31:51
  that
• 31:51
  you
• 31:51
  can
• 31:51
  appoint
• 31:52
  a
• 31:52
  full
• 31:52
  time
• 31:52
  person,
• 31:53
  but
• 31:53
  what's
• 31:54
  the
• 31:54
  desk
• 31:54
  is
• 31:56
  outsource
• 31:57
  what
• 31:57
  you
• 31:57
  are
• 31:57
  not
• 31:58
  a
• 31:58
  specialist
• 31:59
  in
• 32:00
  and
• 32:01
  consider
• 32:01
  that.
• 32:01
  I
• 32:01
  know
• 32:02
  one
• 32:02
  company
• 32:02
  I
• 32:03
  worked
• 32:03
  at
• 32:03
  was
• 32:04
  founded
• 32:04
  by
• 32:04
  three
• 32:05
  extraordinarily
• 32:06
  talented
• 32:08
  developers.
• 32:09
  They
• 32:09
  found
• 32:10
  this
• 32:10
  product,
• 32:11
  it
• 32:11
  was
• 32:11
  a
• 32:11
  great
• 32:11
  product,
• 32:11
  it
• 32:12
  became
• 32:12
  a
• 32:12
  company.
• 32:13
  But
• 32:13
  they
• 32:13
  realized
• 32:14
  earlier
• 32:14
  on
• 32:15
  actually
• 32:15
  we
• 32:15
  are
• 32:16
  not
• 32:16
  good
• 32:16
  at
• 32:16
  managing,
• 32:17
  we
• 32:17
  are
• 32:17
  not
• 32:17
  good
• 32:17
  at
• 32:18
  sales
• 32:18
  or
• 32:18
  marketing,
• 32:19
  nor
• 32:19
  is
• 32:20
  it
• 32:20
  our
• 32:20
  core
• 32:20
  interest.
• 32:21
  We
• 32:21
  want
• 32:21
  to
• 32:22
  develop,
• 32:23
  we
• 32:23
  want
• 32:23
  to
• 32:25
  code,
• 32:25
  because
• 32:25
  that's
• 32:25
  what
• 32:26
  interests
• 32:26
  us,
• 32:26
  it's
• 32:26
  what
• 32:26
  we're
• 32:26
  good
• 32:27
  at.
• 32:27
  And
• 32:27
  they
• 32:27
  took
• 32:28
  that
• 32:29
  stance
• 32:29
  where
• 32:30
  they
• 32:30
  said
• 32:30
  we're
• 32:30
  going
• 32:30
  to
• 32:30
  step
• 32:31
  back
• 32:31
  from,
• 32:32
  quote,
• 32:32
  running
• 32:33
  the
• 32:33
  company.
• 32:34
  They
• 32:34
  still
• 32:35
  owned
• 32:35
  a
• 32:35
  lot
• 32:35
  of
• 32:35
  it,
• 32:36
  but
• 32:36
  they
• 32:36
  stood
• 32:37
  back
• 32:37
  from
• 32:37
  running
• 32:38
  the
• 32:38
  company
• 32:38
  because
• 32:39
  they
• 32:39
  recognized
• 32:39
  it
• 32:39
  wasn't
• 32:40
  a
• 32:40
  core
• 32:40
  specialty.
• 32:41
  So
• 32:41
  I
• 32:41
  would
• 32:42
  recommend
• 32:42
  that
• 32:42
  founders
• 32:43
  sometimes
• 32:43
  need
• 32:43
  to
• 32:43
  step
• 32:43
  back,
• 32:44
  say,
• 32:44
  do
• 32:44
  I
• 32:44
  actually
• 32:45
  need
• 32:45
  to
• 32:45
  hire
• 32:46
  maybe
• 32:46
  on
• 32:46
  a
• 32:47
  fractional
• 32:47
  basis
• 32:47
  an
• 32:47
  experienced
• 32:48
  CMO,
• 32:49
  CFO,
• 32:49
  etc.
• 32:50
  Very
• 32:50
  good
• 32:50
  advice.
• 32:51
  I
• 32:51
  mean,
• 32:51
  this
• 32:51
  is
• 32:52
  kind
• 32:52
  of
• 32:52
  what
• 32:52
  makes
• 32:53
  me
• 32:53
  sick
• 32:53
  about
• 32:54
  Hustle
• 32:54
  culture
• 32:55
  these
• 32:55
  days,
• 32:56
  is
• 32:56
  the
• 32:56
  idea
• 32:57
  that
• 32:57
  you've
• 32:57
  got
• 32:57
  to
• 32:58
  be
• 32:58
  great
• 32:58
  at
• 32:58
  everything
• 32:59
  and
• 32:59
  everybody
• 33:00
  else
• 33:00
  is
• 33:00
  doing
• 33:00
  fabulously
• 33:01
  and
• 33:02
  you
• 33:02
  are
• 33:02
  not.
• 33:02
  I
• 33:02
  hear
• 33:03
  it
• 33:03
  all
• 33:03
  the
• 33:03
  time
• 33:03
  where
• 33:03
  they
• 33:04
  think
• 33:05
  that
• 33:05
  something
• 33:06
  they've
• 33:06
  seen
• 33:06
  on
• 33:06
  social
• 33:07
  media
• 33:07
  or
• 33:07
  wherever
• 33:08
  it
• 33:08
  may
• 33:08
  be
• 33:09
  is
• 33:09
  even
• 33:09
  true.
• 33:10
  Like
• 33:10
  I'm
• 33:11
  a
• 33:11
  founder,
• 33:11
  I
• 33:11
  built
• 33:12
  up
• 33:12
  to
• 33:12
  a
• 33:12
  million
• 33:13
  ARR
• 33:13
  in
• 33:14
  two
• 33:14
  weeks,
• 33:14
  all
• 33:15
  that
• 33:15
  stuff.
• 33:15
  And
• 33:16
  I
• 33:16
  think
• 33:16
  your
• 33:17
  advice
• 33:17
  here
• 33:19
  is
• 33:20
  that
• 33:21
  fundamentally
• 33:22
  we
• 33:22
  need
• 33:23
  to
• 33:23
  focus
• 33:23
  on
• 33:23
  what
• 33:23
  we're
• 33:24
  good
• 33:24
  at.
• 33:25
  And
• 33:25
  I
• 33:25
  agree
• 33:25
  with
• 33:26
  that
• 33:26
  massively.
• 33:27
  It's
• 33:27
  not
• 33:27
  the
• 33:27
  sexy
• 33:28
  social
• 33:28
  media
• 33:29
  clippable
• 33:30
  advice,
• 33:30
  but
• 33:30
  it's
• 33:31
  true.
• 33:32
  As
• 33:32
  in
• 33:32
  do
• 33:32
  what
• 33:33
  you're
• 33:33
  good
• 33:33
  at,
• 33:33
  enjoy
• 33:34
  what
• 33:34
  you
• 33:34
  do,
• 33:35
  find
• 33:35
  people
• 33:35
  who
• 33:36
  are
• 33:36
  the
• 33:36
  same
• 33:37
  at
• 33:37
  the
• 33:37
  areas
• 33:38
  of
• 33:38
  weakness.
• 33:39
  I
• 33:39
  know
• 33:39
  you
• 33:39
  quoted
• 33:40
  somebody
• 33:40
  earlier
• 33:40
  with
• 33:41
  the
• 33:41
  quote
• 33:41
  that
• 33:41
  I
• 33:41
  knew,
• 33:42
  but
• 33:42
  I
• 33:42
  didn't
• 33:42
  know
• 33:42
  who
• 33:42
  they
• 33:43
  were
• 33:43
  and
• 33:43
  I
• 33:43
  will
• 33:43
  look
• 33:44
  them
• 33:44
  up.
• 33:45
  But
• 33:45
  Steve
• 33:45
  Jobs,
• 33:46
  of
• 33:46
  course,
• 33:46
  talked
• 33:47
  about
• 33:47
  getting
• 33:47
  a
• 33:48
  bunch
• 33:48
  of
• 33:48
  brilliant
• 33:48
  people
• 33:49
  around
• 33:49
  you.
• 33:50
  He
• 33:50
  built
• 33:50
  a
• 33:50
  fabulous
• 33:51
  company.
• 33:51
  He
• 33:51
  brought
• 33:52
  it
• 33:52
  from
• 33:52
  the
• 33:52
  brink
• 33:53
  multiple
• 33:53
  times.
• 33:55
  And
• 33:56
  they
• 33:56
  produce
• 33:56
  great
• 33:57
  products
• 33:57
  whether
• 33:57
  you
• 33:57
  love
• 33:58
  them
• 33:58
  or
• 33:58
  not.
• 33:58
  They
• 33:58
  are
• 33:59
  innovative,
• 34:00
  unique
• 34:00
  products.
• 34:02
  And
• 34:02
  he
• 34:03
  often
• 34:03
  talked
• 34:03
  about
• 34:04
  that
• 34:04
  idea
• 34:04
  bringing
• 34:05
  around
• 34:05
  the
• 34:05
  people
• 34:05
  who
• 34:06
  are
• 34:06
  smarter
• 34:06
  than
• 34:06
  you.
• 34:08
  I
• 34:08
  think
• 34:08
  there's
• 34:08
  a
• 34:08
  lot
• 34:09
  to
• 34:09
  be
• 34:09
  said
• 34:09
  for
• 34:09
  that.
• 34:10
  Yeah.
• 34:10
  I'm
• 34:11
  reminded
• 34:11
  of
• 34:12
  George
• 34:12
  Bush
• 34:13
  Jr.
• 34:14
  Who,
• 34:16
  in
• 34:16
  fairness
• 34:16
  to
• 34:17
  him,
• 34:17
  and
• 34:17
  he
• 34:17
  probably
• 34:17
  admit
• 34:18
  this
• 34:18
  himself,
• 34:19
  wasn't
• 34:19
  the
• 34:20
  most
• 34:21
  intellectual
• 34:22
  of
• 34:22
  US
• 34:22
  Presidents.
• 34:23
  But
• 34:23
  what
• 34:24
  he
• 34:24
  did
• 34:24
  do
• 34:24
  very
• 34:25
  well
• 34:25
  was
• 34:25
  he
• 34:25
  recognized
• 34:27
  where
• 34:27
  his
• 34:27
  weaknesses
• 34:28
  were
• 34:28
  and
• 34:28
  he
• 34:28
  appointed
• 34:29
  some
• 34:29
  very
• 34:29
  strong
• 34:29
  people
• 34:30
  around
• 34:30
  him,
• 34:30
  like
• 34:30
  Colin
• 34:31
  Powell,
• 34:31
  Condoleezza
• 34:32
  Rice.
• 34:32
  And
• 34:33
  so
• 34:33
  he
• 34:33
  brought
• 34:34
  these
• 34:34
  people
• 34:34
  who
• 34:34
  are
• 34:34
  experts
• 34:35
  in
• 34:35
  their
• 34:35
  field
• 34:35
  to
• 34:36
  support
• 34:36
  him
• 34:36
  in
• 34:37
  his
• 34:37
  presidency
• 34:38
  because
• 34:39
  he
• 34:39
  recognized
• 34:40
  that
• 34:40
  very
• 34:40
  thing.
• 34:41
  That
• 34:41
  advice
• 34:41
  is
• 34:41
  fantastic.
• 34:42
  It's
• 34:42
  brilliant
• 34:43
  because
• 34:43
  it's
• 34:43
  so
• 34:43
  practical.
• 34:44
  And
• 34:45
  look,
• 34:45
  Mark,
• 34:45
  this
• 34:46
  has
• 34:46
  been
• 34:46
  incredibly
• 34:47
  clarifying.
• 34:48
  The
• 34:48
  big
• 34:49
  takeaway
• 34:49
  for
• 34:49
  me
• 34:50
  personally
• 34:50
  isn't
• 34:51
  about
• 34:51
  saying
• 34:51
  no
• 34:52
  to
• 34:52
  everything.
• 34:53
  It's
• 34:53
  about
• 34:54
  putting
• 34:55
  the
• 34:57
  financial.
• 34:58
  You
• 34:58
  talked
• 34:59
  about
• 34:59
  sanity
• 34:59
  versus
• 35:00
  vanity,
• 35:00
  and
• 35:01
  I
• 35:01
  think
• 35:01
  that
• 35:01
  was
• 35:01
  clear
• 35:02
  through
• 35:02
  everything
• 35:03
  you
• 35:03
  said
• 35:03
  today,
• 35:04
  unless,
• 35:04
  of
• 35:04
  course,
• 35:04
  you
• 35:04
  disagree
• 35:05
  with
• 35:05
  me.
• 35:05
  I
• 35:06
  thought
• 35:06
  it
• 35:06
  was
• 35:06
  very,
• 35:06
  very,
• 35:07
  very
• 35:07
  helpful
• 35:08
  to
• 35:08
  get
• 35:08
  people
• 35:09
  to
• 35:09
  put
• 35:10
  their
• 35:10
  sensible
• 35:11
  hat
• 35:11
  on.
• 35:12
  And
• 35:12
  whether
• 35:12
  that's,
• 35:13
  you
• 35:13
  know,
• 35:14
  not
• 35:14
  believing
• 35:14
  the
• 35:14
  hype,
• 35:17
  obviously
• 35:17
  projecting
• 35:18
  forward.
• 35:19
  And
• 35:19
  thirdly,
• 35:20
  not
• 35:20
  cutting
• 35:20
  off
• 35:21
  things
• 35:21
  too
• 35:21
  quickly.
• 35:22
  And
• 35:22
  of
• 35:23
  course,
• 35:23
  as
• 35:23
  you
• 35:23
  just
• 35:24
  mentioned,
• 35:25
  hire
• 35:25
  specialists
• 35:26
  where
• 35:26
  you're
• 35:26
  not
• 35:26
  so
• 35:27
  great.
• 35:27
  Focus
• 35:27
  on
• 35:28
  what
• 35:28
  you're
• 35:28
  great
• 35:28
  at.
• 35:28
  Thank
• 35:29
  you,
• 35:29
  Mark.
• 35:29
  In
• 35:29
  terms
• 35:30
  of
• 35:30
  if
• 35:30
  founders
• 35:31
  are
• 35:31
  stuck
• 35:31
  in
• 35:31
  the
• 35:31
  death
• 35:32
  zone
• 35:32
  themselves
• 35:32
  and
• 35:33
  need
• 35:33
  someone
• 35:33
  to
• 35:33
  help,
• 35:34
  what
• 35:35
  is
• 35:35
  the
• 35:35
  best
• 35:35
  way
• 35:35
  to
• 35:35
  reach
• 35:35
  you?
• 35:36
  By
• 35:36
  the
• 35:36
  way,
• 35:36
  I'll
• 35:36
  pop
• 35:36
  all
• 35:37
  of
• 35:37
  Mark's
• 35:37
  information
• 35:38
  in
• 35:38
  the
• 35:38
  show
• 35:38
  notes
• 35:39
  so.
• 35:39
  You
• 35:39
  can
• 35:40
  look
• 35:40
  me
• 35:40
  up
• 35:41
  on
• 35:41
  LinkedIn.
• 35:42
  You
• 35:43
  should
• 35:43
  be
• 35:43
  able
• 35:43
  to
• 35:43
  find
• 35:43
  me
• 35:43
  there.
• 35:43
  My
• 35:43
  name
• 35:44
  is
• 35:44
  Mark
• 35:44
  Blakemore.
• 35:45
  I
• 35:45
  post
• 35:45
  quite
• 35:45
  regularly,
• 35:46
  so
• 35:46
  you
• 35:46
  can
• 35:46
  look
• 35:46
  me
• 35:46
  up
• 35:46
  on
• 35:47
  there.
• 35:47
  I
• 35:48
  have
• 35:48
  a
• 35:48
  website
• 35:49
  which
• 35:49
  is
• 35:50
  www.homerunfinance.co.uk
• 35:54
  and
• 35:55
  you
• 35:55
  can
• 35:55
  always
• 35:55
  reach
• 35:55
  me
• 35:56
  on
• 35:56
  mark@homerunfinance.co
• 35:58
  dot
• 35:58
  uk
• 35:58
  as
• 35:58
  well.
• 35:59
  And
• 35:59
  I
• 35:59
  will
• 35:59
  pop
• 35:59
  all
• 35:59
  of
• 35:59
  that
• 36:00
  in
• 36:00
  the
• 36:00
  show
• 36:00
  notes.
• 36:00
  If
• 36:01
  you're
• 36:01
  currently
• 36:01
  strolling
• 36:02
  around
• 36:02
  a
• 36:02
  park
• 36:03
  or
• 36:03
  on
• 36:03
  a
• 36:03
  treadmill.
• 36:04
  And
• 36:04
  if
• 36:05
  you
• 36:05
  don't
• 36:05
  have
• 36:05
  anything
• 36:05
  to
• 36:05
  write
• 36:06
  down,
• 36:06
  I'll
• 36:06
  have
• 36:06
  all
• 36:06
  the
• 36:07
  Mark's
• 36:07
  information
• 36:08
  in
• 36:08
  there.
• 36:08
  It's
• 36:08
  homerun
• 36:09
  finance.co.uk
• 36:11
  and
• 36:11
  this
• 36:12
  has
• 36:12
  been
• 36:12
  Mark
• 36:12
  Blakemore.
• 36:13
  Thank
• 36:13
  you
• 36:14
  so
• 36:14
  much
• 36:14
  for
• 36:14
  joining
• 36:15
  us
• 36:15
  on
• 36:15
  the
• 36:15
  podcast
• 36:16
  today.