Latest / Long Distance Friends / Fostering Her Daughter - The Process, The Grief, and the Joy - with Abbi Thomsen

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Fostering Her Daughter - The Process, The Grief, and the Joy - with Abbi Thomsen · Long Distance Friends

• Anna Casey: ⁓ up everybody? And welcome back to long distance friends. ⁓ I have on one of my very best friends, one of my very best long distance friends, Abby Thompson. ⁓ is somebody who ⁓ can be completely comfortable around. I was just saying before this recording started that I feel ⁓ ⁓ so at ease going into this recording. Just her presence, the way that she brings such light and warmth and understanding to a room is like truly one of her biggest gifts. I'm so blessed to be her friend. And today I get to just ask Abby all about her fostering process with her sweet daughter Elle and what she's learned, what has been the hardest parts, what's been the best parts. And this is just gonna be a very real conversation where I just get to ask all of my questions. And she was gracious enough to come on here and have a recorded long-distance friends conversation so that we could bring awareness to the fostering process and all of the beauty and pain and joy and grief that is wrapped up in that process. So Abby, welcome to long distance friends. Abbi: Yeah, recording that we're going to Hello. Thank you for letting me be here. I'm so excited. Yes. Anna Casey: I love you so much and I'm just so excited to like dive right into the deep end. ⁓ And ⁓ so will you share ⁓ ⁓ story? ⁓ And whatever you comfortable sharing, would just love to hear everything. Anything and everything you're willing to share, I would love to hear. Abbi: ⁓ Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. Hello, and I'm so happy to be here. this feels very is the word like kismet? I don't know. Just like we literally have been long distance friends for a long time. So this is perfect. I don't know. It's just good. Okay. ⁓ anywho, okay, the question fostering story. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: I'm gonna jump into the deep end. it starts kind of depressing and it gets happier from there. ⁓ So ⁓ last year, ⁓ early last year, I was pregnant, and then ⁓ lost that baby or that's such it's come I had a what is it called where it's in your fallopian tube whatever that's called. Egg egg topic maybe? I don't know. I it's like something where yeah, like the egg is in your fallopian tube and so I had to have surgery and any everything everything like that. So that was earlier, ⁓ last year Anna Casey: Ectopic? Okay. Abbi: And was in like a really weird like headspace after that for so many different reasons. But I still I had this like feeling inside that like a baby was still on the way somehow. and I didn't know like what that meant. I didn't I like felt so numb like emotionally, but that thought just like kind of kept coming into my mind. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: And so I would be literally like driving around and just kind of like with extra awareness, like looking for a baby. I was like, I don't even know why I'm doing this. ⁓ yeah. And then my mom, because I had just lost or had, you know, my pregnancy and I'm not still sure how to talk about that part, but she had booked us tickets to like a Comic Con to see the Twilight people who were in town. Anna Casey: Wow. Abbi: And I was like, let's freaking go. ⁓ and so I was like Anna Casey: Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Abby was one of the first people I told when I went to Forks this year. I was like, I gotta tell Abby. We were in our twilight era. Abbi: ⁓ my god. I love Twilight. I love Twilight so much. ⁓ Anna Casey: Don't you have a team Jacob shirt? Abbi: No I used to have an Edward card Anna Casey: Thought at one point you had a twilight shirt. Abbi: I probably did. If it was if it was it would be Team Edward, ⁓ but I had a cardboard cut out of Edward in my room growing up. Anna Casey: That's okay, that's probably what I'm thinking about. Abbi: And yeah. I yeah, we can go down the rabbit hole of like I love Twilight so much. ⁓ but we got tickets to this thing. I was gonna see Twilight people and I was like I have to like be looking the best that I can look so I went to go get my hair cut and like refreshed. And I had gone to my hair lady for like five years, like almost Anna Casey: Yes. Abbi: since we moved to Oklahoma City. So we, you know, have a pretty good relationship and like talk about life and all this kind of stuff. And I'm, you know, sitting down to get my hair done. She's like, how's life? And for better or for worse, I'm a pretty open book. And so I shared with her like losing the baby and cried and blah blah blah blah. And then I was like, and how are you? after that. ⁓ I'm, you know, sitting down to get my hair done. how's life? And sh she was like, she was like, having ⁓ kind of a weird day. my stepsister a baby this morning. she can't keep the baby. I'm ac I'm ⁓ kind of a weird day. Like my stepsister a baby this morning. ⁓ she can't keep the baby. Like, we're gonna to call ⁓ on the situation 'cause it's not good. ⁓ this is the third baby ⁓ that's a not great situation with her. And we just don't know what to do our family has already ⁓ like helped raise and adopt like two babies and like we really just don't have capacity and so we're all just kind of freaking out. And I just like felt in my spirit like I think I need to say something. And I was like I mean, her name's Allie. I was like Ali Jacob and I were gonna have a baby this year and like we want that and Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: I was like Ali Jacob and I were gonna have a baby this year and like we want that ⁓ I've always thought like adoption, like yeah, you know, isn't that crazy? ⁓ I was like, I've always thought that like adoption would be part of my child story. I hoped it would. and she was like, ⁓ my gosh, like are you serious? And I was like, Yes. I mean I need to go call Jacob, but like I want to, and went to the bathroom, called him, and he was like, Yes, like no questions asked. ⁓ so like Anna Casey: I just got chills. Abbi: I go call Jacob, he was like, Yes, like no questions Anna Casey: No way. Abbi: Y yeah, it was crazy. And so then we go that day, I go that day and he does too, like online to get put into the Oklahoma foster care system 'cause like we weren't even registered or in the system at all. So we go and put our information in and then ⁓ Elle had to go she stayed in the hospital. ⁓ for about a week because she was having some withdrawal from ⁓ drugs. ⁓ and so she was you know being monitored for that and then she went to live with her grandparents for like another two weeks and then at during those two weeks like we're getting pictures from them. We got to go over there and meet her and like hold her. Anna Casey: ⁓ wow. Abbi: And then you know, she got formally placed with us when she was around three weeks old. But yeah, that is ⁓ in nutshell how we started this whole journey. And then we did certification ⁓ while was placed with us. So she was placed place with us and then we had to get certified. So we were like doing classes at night and trying to figure out how to be parents, like literally overnight. ⁓ and we were like scrambling to get a a nursery ready. so yeah, it was kind of a whirlwind, but it was the coolest whirlwind for sure. so Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and I think this was the time when your mom sent out your baby shower invites. Is that true? And then I receive one. I think I receive a text or either I think it was a text. And I immediately call you and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, ⁓ my gosh, are you pregnant? Like, I can't believe I didn't know you were pregnant. And Abbi: Yeah. Yes. Well Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Anna Casey: You were like, no, actually, I lost the baby. And you were so gracious to me in that moment. Like I can't imagine like I know that you had to Abbi: Mm-hmm. Aww. Anna Casey: Like all of those emotions around grief and loss and like joy and like co like holding those two pieces together from the outside looking in, you did that so graciously because I'm sure I was not the only one calling you, being like, ⁓ my gosh, you're having a baby, you're pregnant. So how like so like how I like honestly, like how was that for you having friends like me be like Abbi: Yeah. Mm. Yeah, yeah. Surprise. Anna Casey: Are you pregnant? Are you pregnant? ⁓ my gosh. Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. it was a little yeah, it was a little tough. I mean, 'cause it was like I mean, I think I had grace for people because I was being whipped around by life. ⁓ and Jacob was too. And so I'm like, I can't really expect people to like keep up or like ask the perfect thing, you know. ⁓ but it definitely was Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: I don't know. It's one of those things that like I think a huge thing in our culture moment ⁓ right now is like no is a full answer and like you don't have to over explain yourself. And I I love that, but I always feel the urge or like the need to provide context for why I'm doing what I'm doing most of the time. So I I think it was like a pretty whether it's like healthy or unhealthy, it was pretty natural for me to be like, Yeah, so Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: I like lost a baby and now this is happening and so would still love to have you there and there's still a baby coming. It's just not the baby that we originally thought. And yeah, that was that was and is like still such a a wild thing. I know this talk is mostly gonna be centered around ⁓ L fostering, but I think Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: Having the type of pregnancy that I had, ⁓ I don't know a better way to say it other than like a mind F, if you know what mean. because like okay, great. I was like, it's a mind fuck. Like, I don't know a better way to say that. just because, like, one, I was like so scared to be pregnant. ⁓ and that's a whole nother rabbit hole, but I was scared to be pregnant. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. You can say it if you want. Yeah. Abbi: be pregnant, but I was like, okay, like we're here. So like I had to do the work to wrap my mind around being pregnant in the first place and trying to be a safe place for this baby growing inside of me and like I was getting the books and I was eating pepper sandwiches because I was like I need to start eating healthy and ⁓ I was trying to all of these ⁓ right things for this little human growing inside of me. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: who I was scared of and then didn't feel like super connected to yet. and then as we're going on, things start happening and then ⁓ one in particular it was like something's wrong. ⁓ and go the ER, find out, like find out some things and then ⁓ f follow doctor appointment. They're like actually like it's ⁓ there's still they called it like tissue in your fallopian tube. I hope I'm saying that right. I'm so not like for all the stuff that we're doing and all of that stuff, I'm like, I don't think I'm even calling it the right thing. But there's something a tissue like tissue still in there and so we are gonna have to like go in and do surgery because if the tissue keeps growing you can die because it'll rupture your tube and then Anna Casey: It's okay. Mm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: ⁓ so went in, had surgery and then had that tube taken out. ⁓ and so it was just such a mind fuck because like yeah, like I'm like, so was it a baby? Was it not? Like I don't know. ⁓ And you know, all of the doctors are just using medical terms, they're not using ⁓ any Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: like terms like yeah, baby or anything like that. So then I'm like, I don't even know what I'm allowed to feel or like but I do n but I'm feeling things. ⁓ so yeah, it it it yeah, it was and is just still like a I don't I don't even know what to think about that if I'm honest. and Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How far along were you? Abbi: I think I was ten weeks. Anna Casey: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Abbi: I think. Yeah. I definitely have the thing to where one, I'm type B and then two, when I go through really hard things I lose details pretty easily 'cause I just like Anna Casey: Mhm. Yeah, like we're done with that. I'm not even gonna I can't put energy in that anymore. I I definitely relate to that, yeah. Abbi: zone out or whatever. So I'm yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I'm almost positive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anna Casey: Wow. thank you for sharing that. circling back you placed with when she was or Elle was placed with you guys when she was three weeks and you were going through the whole process of like trying to quote unquote like become like foster parents ⁓ and ⁓ Abbi: Mm-hmm. Anna Casey: do all your certifications and everything like that. Were you just able to have L because the birth mother chose you guys despite not technically being certified? Abbi: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so it is a little bit different. We had what is called a kinship placement. So we knew the family. So whenever you know the family, at least in Oklahoma, I'm pretty sure this would be the goal in every state, but in Oklahoma, you know, you want the goal is the ultimate goal of any foster situation is reunification as long as it's healthiest for the child. Like 'cause you want families to be reconciled to each other. Anna Casey: Okay. Okay. Mm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: If that can't happen, or in the meantime of that happening, you want to try to place a child ⁓ a family situation or close friend situation so that ⁓ with biological family can be maintained and nurtured ⁓ the child is reunified with their parents, ⁓ even if not, like you ⁓ to still maintain ⁓ contact with biofamily members. Again, if it's healthy ⁓ and safe. So yeah, we were able to have her place with us ⁓ and get certified not have to be certified first because it was kinship placement and we knew the family. ⁓ otherwise we would have like gone through ⁓ training first. Like we kind of Anna Casey: Okay. Abbi: If Jacob and I had talked and we're like, okay, we think that we want to be foster parents, right? And we didn't have such a a pr a a situation presented to us, then we would have gotten in the system, we would have gone to classes in person or done the classes online. And then once we were certified, we would have like been on a roster basically of certified families that are ready to receive children. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: And you have to get like interviewed and like all this kind of stuff. Like there was a there was quite a few steps, to that. And so then we would have had a child place with us after all of that if we were not kinship. But they basically did like a a rush. ⁓ One also too because I don't think there's enough families. and so yeah. Anna Casey: Okay. Got it. Okay, that makes sense. Abbi: They're it's like w whenever you can get a child in a safe situation, then it's like, okay, we're gonna do what we can. And I don't wanna speak out of turn, but I think it's also something like that 'cause there's just not enough families and there's so many kids and foster care. So Yeah. Anna Casey: Okay. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. That whole kinship process. would you say has been the hardest part and the best part about the fostering process would you say has been the hardest part and the best part about the fostering process so far? ⁓ Abbi: ⁓ boy. I think the best part has just been like we have truly been gifted with people in our life, family and friends that are so open to it and supportive. And you I think r when you have a child in general, but especially like when you open up your life to fostering, like you have to have a community. ⁓ because it is so hard and it is nuanced and layered. And so I think the best part has honestly been Elle herself and then the community that we have that has just been really supportive of us and welcomed her into their life just as much as we've welcomed her into our life. And then the hardest part is Anna Casey: Mm. It's good. Abbi: I think twofold. one, the uncertainty. I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but you've started you start to fall in love with this little dumpling that gets placed in your life pretty fast. yeah, pretty fast. I mean there was there was time There was an acclimating or acclamation period for me. Like I I definitely was like, okay, wait, what did I just say yes to? And like what are we doing? But this is what I want to be doing. And it was like my head and my body were not like completely like this yet. but pretty quickly, like, yeah, you start to just get Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: attached and so then you love this child so much like they're your own. at least that's what it feels like for me. But the nature of fostering is like you also want to be champions of bioparents and you want to see them grow and be healthy and you know you don't want to see them addicted to things anymore. Like you don't want that for anybody, right? Like I feel like you want people to be the best that they can be. And so it's different for every placement and every family, but you know, f I think for me I was like, I don't want to be rooting for someone else's failure in order for me to have a win, you know. Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: And so that still is the hardest part. You know, Elle's bi biological mom relinquished her rights I think a few months after she had been with us. And I think she like that's that's hard. again it's so layered, but you know, that's hard to see, but I do think she made the right decision and we've actually gotten to like talk with her since and she's six months sober. Anna Casey: ⁓ wow. Wow. Abbi: And she's looked so good and she's so happy and she's like really working on herself. And so I think it's just this nuanced thing of like sometimes you're gonna have bioparents that can work their plan, work their program, have visitation and reconciliation really is the best thing and Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: That's amazing. And then you have some situations where you still want people to get healthy, but maybe being a parent isn't the best thing for them, even if they are healthy. so I think it's just like the nuance and the layer of like this isn't just like a math equation. These are real these are real human beings and Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. Abbi: they have stories and I don't believe that people make bad decisions in a vacuum. I feel like there's always harm that's been done to us that leads us to make poor choices or, you know, for whatever for whatever reason we don't have a dignified view of ourselves. ⁓ and so that leads us to, you know, make hard choices and so I think that's the hard thing is like Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abbi: you love this little being so much and you like want them to be yours but you also really want what's best for them and you want what's best for their bioparents. But yeah, it's just such a I think just the layered human nature of it is what's really hard. So yeah. Yeah. Anna Casey: Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's powerful. It's like out of your what someone else may deem as like the best situation would come at the cost of like the greatest grief. Like one of the greatest griefs you could experience. Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, Elle's bio dad, there's still a chance that she will be reunified with him. Like if that's what caseworkers and the state and the court deem is best, like that is what could happen. and it will be like a child has died again, ⁓ if that happens. So and there's nuance around that, you know, I wanna be careful and protect Anna Casey: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Abbi: Elle and protect her bio dad, so I don't really want to go into all the decision or all the like context around that, but it's scary and it's hard if that happens. Like I like I said, even if he is the healthiest he's ever been, if we lose Elle and she doesn't get to be our daughter forever, like it it will feel like she is like it it will feel like a death has happened. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. at any point in up until she turns eighteen, is that possible? Or ⁓ is there like a cutoff? Like how does that work? Abbi: And yeah. No, so ⁓ at least from my understanding, you there's a couple of different things that can be happening. One, a bioparent can relinquish their rights, which is what her mom chose to do. ⁓ and so once you relinquish your rights, like that's it, that's permanent. Like there's no legal grounds for that bioparent to come back to the court to say like oops, I changed my mind. So that's why like when a bio parent starts starts to like say things like that or or consider that, like the court does their darndest to make sure that that is what they want because you can't un legally undo that. ⁓ and there's no like you don't have any grounds to stand on if you choose to do that. Anna Casey: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Abbi: And so that's one thing. if so Elle's biodad is currently in jail and so I think you know there's there's different circumstances obviously, but once a parent is to the place where they can start working a plan that the court makes Then a child gets visitation opportunities, ⁓ supervised visitations, and then those can increase in nature until the parent, you know, works their plan, meaning they go to parent like it could look different for every parent, but most of the time you're gonna have them going to parenting classes, addiction classes, they need to support themselves, and a whole bunch of other things need to happen in order for them to get full custody or have their child live with them again. Because what happens is then the child becomes in the guardianship of the state. So technically Elle is in the state's guardianship. ⁓ and then we are like fostering her and her foster parents and we get to act on behalf of her as her caregivers and her parents. But like she won't Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: she would either go back to the custody of her bioparent or if we get to adopt her through the state taking away the bioparent's rights or the bioparent relinquishing their rights, then that's whenever we would get the opportunity to adopt her. but adoption's final. So if she yeah, like there's if we get to adopt her, there's no legal Anna Casey: Okay. Abbi: standing for a bioparent to come back and say, like, no, she's legally my child. Now you g you get the nuance family to family of how are you going to handle relationships with bioparents? Like if you do get to adopt the child. Like what does that look like? And it looks different for every family. So but legally Anna Casey: Okay. Okay. And that would ultimately be up to the bio parents, right? Abbi: The bioparents or the state. Yeah, so the if if the the state or the court, I guess I should say. So if the state and the court are looking at the bioparent, they're not working their plan, they are harmful, violent, like not a safe place for the child, and the child has been in care for a long time, then the state will start to kind of not play the game but weigh the odds of like Anna Casey: Okay. Okay. Abbi: what is healthiest for this child, like what is best for the child. And sometimes and so then that would lead the state to petition for termination of rights and then the court to grant that termination of rights. And then the rights would be taken away from the bioparent. No. Yeah, and I feel Yeah, yes. And I Anna Casey: Okay. Okay, got it. Sorry for all my technical questions. This is actually very helpful. I have another technical question if that's okay. ⁓ Abbi: I I'm gonna say ⁓ please like do your research and fact check me because I th I'm pretty sure I'm just ⁓ describing everything right, but ⁓ to the to my honest knowledge, like that is the case. So yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. Anna Casey: I Yes. Yes. Disclaimer, nothing in this episode is legal advice. My other question was, are you assigned a caseworker to your c like is it one caseworker and they like know you and they know your family and you like have a relationship with this person or is it has it been a different person every time and like what has your experience been with that person or those people are you ⁓ assigned caseworker what your experience been ⁓ with that person Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we ha yeah, so at least in again, this is our first time, so I think this is how it works all the time, but ⁓ there's two. So Jacob and I actually have our own ⁓ ⁓ kind of checks in on us and is ⁓ more How are we doing? ⁓ And then has a case worker. Anna Casey: like that work on of the Yeah. Okay, cool. Abbi: And so we get visitations from both caseworkers ⁓ at least once a month, if not more. And we have a stronger relationship with Elle's caseworker just because like the qu type of questions that we have like fall more to her caseworker and things like that, but our caseworker is really nice too. ⁓ I would just say that we have a stronger relationship with Elle's caseworker. And when Elle was going ⁓ Anna Casey: Wow. Mm-hmm. Abbi: The part that was kind of interesting and I didn't love, When Elle was doing supervised visitations with her bio mom, was a different person picking her up every time ⁓ and taking her to ⁓ like a library or a public for those visitations. ⁓ ⁓ Anna Casey: Okay. Okay. Abbi: I get it. I get why they do that because again, like this system is not a perfect system. So you're gonna have flaws and it's gonna be broken. There's not a lot of people that wanna do that wanna work in this ⁓ field and the turnover rate is extremely high because it is extremely hard emotional work. and so there's just not a lot of people. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Hmm, wow. Abbi: And so they have different people doing different things. ⁓ so like I logically get it and I have empathy for that, but it was really hard to give my baby that I'm in charge of over to a new person to go to a place that I'm not going to to be with a bioparent that's not in the healthiest place. And that just that's a hard, that's a hard ⁓ that was ho that was hard. That was that was rough. And I could be making this up, but I swear to you, like I feel like Every time Elle would come back from one of those visitations, I swear even like as a little baby, her body was so like dysregulated and disrupted. And so like I would just bring her home. Like when she came home, I would just like hold her more and just like try to be more comforting to her. And that's one thing in the training, like especially with when the kids get older too, like Anna Casey: Mm. No. Abbi: you're depending on how long, you know, they're with you, you'll start to hopefully have structure in your home and start to like nurture your child in the way that they need to be loved and they need to be nurtured. And that structure and that routine and that rhythm starts to become really good for kids. But then they go back to do these visitations and it's very emotionally disruptive. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Abbi: And obviously on a biological level, your brain is still forming. Like you don't know how to handle your emotions yet. And ⁓ there's so many things. So like it's really hard. I th yes, as a foster parent, but like ⁓ especially like young kids and even teenagers who go through that. Like it's it's really rough. Like it it's so ⁓ yeah, just emotionally difficult. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: It's a a hard part of the process for sure. Yeah. So Anna Casey: Wow. As how did you get through that? Like how did you function? Abbi: I cried a lot. I talked to my mom a lot. And then I honestly like it was a decision that was made for me. And so like I th it's not like I could fight it. Like there was no way that I could be like, Well, I'm not really comfortable with that. Like it is what it is. ⁓ so then you just kinda have to like like yeah, like I said, hold her a lot, ⁓ love on her. Anna Casey: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Abbi: well an extra and they say like so if she was an older kid like something that you could do is like start to be like okay remember we're gonna have visitation with mom or dad on Friday and start to have conversations with them to like emotionally get them ready for their visitation. ⁓ Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: But you know, for a baby, I I could still do that, but there's not a lot of you know, like cognizant behavior to you know, to work with. So for me I just was like I just have to be here. that's literally all I can do. ⁓ So ⁓ Anna Casey: Wow, that's Abbi: Yeah. Anna Casey: That takes a level of surrender that I don't feel like most people could begin to understand. Like that I don't know what else in life could like could be. I mean, that's just I'm still wrapping my head around that. Wow. Abbi: Yeah. Я Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is yeah, when you say the things out loud, you're like, ⁓ yeah, that's that's not necessarily normal, you know. and it is yeah, it is it is rough. ⁓ but yeah, you just kind of that was every week for a while. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. And that's once a month. Okay. Okay. And now it's once a month. Abbi: I'm pretty sure. So we c now she doesn't have it at all because her mom terminated her rights and her dad has been in jail, so there hasn't been p a visitation. But if he gets out and starts to work his plan, then he technically has the right to visitations and they could and probably would resume. And so Anna Casey: ⁓ right, okay. Okay. Okay. Abbi: thinking about going through that again now that she is one or thirteen months and she I mean she recognizes people like and she gets scared if she's with someone she doesn't know and for lack of a better word if she feels like weird energy on you, like she's like she can feel unsafe and like so she has started to develop and so that's gonna really suck and be really hard to just like Anna Casey: Mm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: let happen, if that's how things play out. Like I that I've thought about that a lot, as we're getting closer to the possibility of her bio dad ⁓ getting out on time served and Anna Casey: Yeah. Abbi: I think I think it's just so it's so hard either way, but it's like it makes me sick to my stomach because I'm like I can't explain anything to her. Like I can't explain why this random person is like picking you up and why you're going to be with this person that you have no idea who this is and mommy can't be there or daddy can't be there like with you, like ⁓ so I am ⁓ Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Abbi: If I think about it too much, like it will send me into like kind of a dark place. And so I honestly like this is where like I'm in therapy. I would recommend therapy to anyone and everyone. But especially like if you're going through something like that, like just having some sort of help or support system because like it can take you down pretty fast. ⁓ or at least it can take me down pretty fast, but Anna Casey: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for opening up about that here and like going to that place. And I know that anyone listening who is like thinking about the fostering process or that is in the fostering process is going to very much relate and hopefully find solidarity in that. So thank you for sharing those ⁓ those parts. ⁓ What you feel ⁓ has ⁓ Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anna Casey: What what about the fostering process do you feel like is the most misunderstood? What what about the fostering process do you feel like is the most misunderstood? Abbi: I think I don't how to say this ⁓ succinctly, I don't how to say this ⁓ succinctly, ⁓ but I know I would say it's like misunderstood, but ⁓ I think naturally like part of what's beautiful about parenthood is that we all start talking to each other, right? Because once you're a parent you're like, ⁓ this is the ⁓ you're like this is the hardest club I've ever been initiated into. Like what the hell? ⁓ and so you like start talking to each other, which is great in one regard. ⁓ but na like but things Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abbi: if it's not a biological child, people do just like talk about it differently. And so like that has probably been like the hardest of like ⁓ well this is not your kid or and like people don't say it that bluntly but like people will say like ⁓ I've had people say iterations of like well since she's not like yours and what they mean is like not biologically mine. Dot dot dot. You know, and they'll start, you know, comparing but not in a way that's malicious or mean. Like, I don't think anybody has been like purposefully mean about it, but it has been Anna Casey: Mm. Still hurtful. Abbi: Still just yeah, like hard 'cause I'm like I don't know I d it's like in one breath, like I don't want to take away the beauty of birth and like carrying a baby in your womb. Like that is something I can't relate to. Like I can, but not really. Like in I'm one of the weird ladies that like part of why pregnancy was so hard is because I've never wanted to be pregnant. Like I mean it when I say like I've always since I was twelve years old Anna Casey: Yeah. Abbi: have wanted to adopt my children. ⁓ I've n I Yeah, yeah, like I have I have I've n yeah. Like I've n I've just never had that desire and if and it's probably, you know more even to the side of like I've been afraid of that. You know, so like I don't want to diminish women and families who like have had the Anna Casey: I can vouch for that. I can vouch. I remember many conversations about this. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abbi: gumption and the strength to like carry a baby and grow a little human like and feel that connection because it is a special connection. Like when there's this little human being that looks like you and your your spouse and your partner and like has your mannerisms and Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: you know, does weird things that Uncle Bob does that you could never like teach them and it's just genetic. Like, that's so cool and like beautiful and so I don't ever want to like Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: pit one type of family against another. ⁓ but I think the thing that is hard is in efforts to connect, in efforts to understand, you are just gonna have those words or those conversations of Yeah, people trying to ra yeah, like people just trying to wrap their head around like, okay, so maybe like how do you bond with this baby or like Anna Casey: Sure. Like clumsy words. Mm-hmm. Mm. Abbi: I don't know, like and a lot of people have been like, ⁓ I could never do that you know, 'cause I guess maybe they're afraid like they could not connect with a baby that they didn't have in a biological way. ⁓ so I think like It's hard because I think there's a lot of limiting beliefs around it. Because I always wanna respond to people like, Well, I think you could. Like, it would be hard, but I think you could just like I mean, I could have, you know, been pregnant and that would have been really hard for me. Like 'cause it that's not natural to me. Being pregnant in a biological way, like that's not natural to me. So it would have been really hard. ⁓ but I think that we can do hard things, you know, so I think Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: I think it's just the language around how we talk about things is difficult sometimes, but honestly, like the older I get, the more I'm like we live in this point in time where everything's an argument and everything's divisive. Anna Casey: Mm, mm-hmm. Abbi: And everything everything's reactive. And so I'm like, if I don't give people the grace to hurt my feelings, but at least have the conversation with me, then like nothing's ever gonna get better. So and vice versa. Like I I probably have hurt so many people's feelings. I'm probably hurting somebody's feelings right now that's like listening to me and they're probably like, you don't even know, and then you get into the whole like Anna Casey: That's really good. Abbi: infertility journey that people go on and like how hurt it is for me to say like I don't want that or whatever and that's literally what someone's heart is breaking over. ⁓ you know, which I'm I have friends that have walked through that journey and I've I've been privy or like I've seen their heartbreak and it's like Anna Casey: Sure. Abbi: It's so hard, you know? ⁓ so I think yeah, the I don't know what the question was originally, but like just the hard part is that th things get said, language gets used and you do feel a little misunderstood, but Anna Casey: Yeah. Abbi: I think if we can just continue to have conversations that that would help, you know. And if there's as long as there's space, you know, to be like, Well, it does it's I don't really feel that way or ⁓ like that's not really how like I would, you know, say that, you know. As long as there's space in our conversations to like give c like color or context or perspective, I think that's good, you know. Anna Casey: Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. And like Mm. Wow, that's really good. That's really good, Abby. has your community done that like actually been helpful? Abbi: whenever I like got thrust into motherhood, I was like, I am dying. Like the no sl the no sleep, you are now responsible for somebody else all the time. In your waking hours and your sleeping hours, and the times you want to think about it and the times you don't want to think about it. And everywhere in between. And so it's so hard and so tiring. And just like all of the crying, all of the crying, like it just like So much crying. I'm crying, the baby's crying. I'm like, ⁓ my God, like I'm overstimulated. Like, ⁓ it's it was it was it was it was a shock to the system, honestly. And I've just like never been that tired before. I've never been that tired before. yeah. So what did my community do? ⁓ Anna Casey: I yes. ⁓ yeah. Abbi: One people were so kind and they showered us with, you know, the clothes and the gifts and the like let's help you set up your nursery. So that's really practical. But honestly, like I gotta call out my two friends, like Maggie doesn't live super close to me anymore, but my friends, Maggie and Sydney, they would just come over and like hold L for me while I took a shower. Or like there would be times where I'm sure like I was so ⁓ my gosh, I was like like I would be so anxious from being with her all day or all night and Anna Casey: Beautiful. Abbi: I'm sure you know, again, energy thing, like or whatever word we want to use. Like I know that Elle could like feel that. And so I'm like trying to comfort her, but I'm so overwhelmed. And so they would just come over and like hold her and rock her or whatever. And they w she would get to fall asleep in their arms. And then I just got to like have an adult conversation again. Or like I said, like wash my dishes or take a shower. or something like that. And honestly just Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: Being a type of friend that's like, hey, I'm gonna come over and do your dishes. Or I'm gonna come over and like my friend Sydney would like bring me food because I can't cook on a good day. And so then I was like, I can't cook for myself now. and so she would like bring over snacks or like meals. and Anna Casey: Yeah, so good. Mm-hmm. Abbi: I think people just willing to like jump in there. Like one of the things that I think is like so weird about American culture compared to other cultures is how individualistic we seem to be with our children and like our child rearing. Cause I'm I'm looking around here and I'm like, I need help. Like I can't do this by myself. Yes, like where is my village? Anna Casey: Mm. Yep. Where's my village? Yeah. Abbi: And sometimes you like your village and sometimes you don't. being honest. And that's but at least you have one. And so I think, yeah, just people people coming over and like giving you that the break and the help is was so so nice and still is. ⁓ even now, even as Elle's gotten older, one thing I really appreciate about my stepmom actually is Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Abbi: She she'll text me and the way she'll frame things is, hey, I'm free on Saturday if you would like some help with L. And maybe sometimes she'll give me ⁓ time window. ⁓ And I a really hard time asking for help. So I think that I just appreciate the way that she frames it of like, not can I do anything or like whatever. It's just ⁓ Anna Casey: Yeah. Abbi: I'm available and you can bring her over. And that that for whatever reason like clicks in my brain. And then my friend Maggie, when she was living here, she she literally was just like Aunt Maggie. And like she's a single person. She has Anna Casey: Okay. No. Abbi: her own life, you know, and she has a vibrant life, but she would take the time and spend evenings with us and literally just be like a third member of the family and hold Elle for a second while I did the dishes or like and then eat dinner with us. And she would help get the bath ready while I got the jammies ready or like whatever. And just just like s like stepping in there and Anna Casey: Yeah. Abbi: Honestly, sometimes just like having another person in the house with you that like you know has got your back that's like not your partner, 'cause even though you love your partner, like I feel like in that first couple of months, you're like, I could murder you right now. Like I really could. ⁓ and so like have having a safe third person willing to step in, whether that's a parent or a friend, like I really, really appreciated that and still do. Like I still welcome that. So yeah. Jump in. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. ⁓ that's so good. Just being willing to jump right in. Not what do you need, but like offering what you have. Abbi: Yes. Yeah. And just if a lot of my friends like I do have ⁓ a few friends that have children, but a lot of my friends don't. And so I like, ⁓ my God, am I gonna lose all my single friends? And I was really nervous about that and they have all just been so great about like, Hey, if you wanna go get coffee, Elle can come too and like sit with us and like I'll hold her or like as she's getting older, like like they'll play with her too. So I think just Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: I don't know, not siloing life so much, 'cause that's one thing that I've had a hard time with with like I need to be better at about making mom friends. ⁓ but like the I think I just get nervous about being siloed to like one type of people group, ⁓ or like in in one season of life, because like I need all of the seasons of life to Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm. Abbi: guide me, support me. and I'm just interested. Like I'm interested in all the things. So I was really appreciative that my single friends didn't say like, ⁓ well she's a mom now so she doesn't have time for me. It's like they still like reached out and I really appreciated that. So Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Anna Casey: Yeah. That's awesome. Shout out to your friends. Shout out to your friends. I love it. That's awesome. ⁓ you've mentioned earlier about how there's just ⁓ enough families ⁓ readily available. Abbi: Yeah. Anna Casey: in foster care system. And so my question for ⁓ is ⁓ you've gone through journey and you you are a person of faith, ⁓ and you have grown like the church. ⁓ Now that you are on this side and you've had this experience, what do you hope is the church's role in the foster in the foster care system? What do you hope changes? Or maybe just what are some gaps that you see that you would you would like to highlight? I would just love to let you like speak to this relationship between the church and the foster system. what do you hope ⁓ is the church's role in the foster system? Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ Anna Casey: Letter rip. Letter rip. You do not have to be tactful. This is a safe place. Abbi: So my relationship with church as of late is complicated anyway. So like I want I'm trying to work on it not being in a me versus them situation, anyways. we could jump on a whole nother podcast episode about all of that. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. B. Abbi: I you know ⁓ I hope a lot of things because if we break it down like the church is people. So what do I hope for people? I hope that I think I h I I hope that we would be willing maybe to have a bigger imagination of of what of what family looks like. And I I I think that Anna Casey: Mm. So good. Abbi: I think that, you know, I I can only speak to my culture and my context and I I think it's always easier to be like the grass is greener on the other side or like romanticize a culture that maybe is different than your own. but I th I do think that We as a society and the spe and in the church, I think that we can get so individual with our lives. ⁓ because we're all tired, right? It's not like I don't get it. Like we're all exhausted, like everybody's lonely, everybody's overworked, everybody's tired, like in this economy, like you know what I'm saying? So like I get I get it. ⁓ Anna Casey: Mm, mm-hmm. Abbi: But I do think that we have a very narrow view of what family looks like and even what and I think that applies to like a lot of different areas, you know, like we don't see a lot of multi generational homes. ⁓ Anna Casey: Mm mm. Abbi: I'm gonna say like How do I say this? ⁓ The white the whites have a lot to work on. I don't know. Anna Casey: Hehehehe Abbi: No better way to say it, like white church going folk, we got some work to do is all I have to say. I myself included. Like, so again, like this is so nuanced, but I just feel like multi like sell and not just like making allowances for it, but like celebrating, championing. Anna Casey: Mm, yeah. It's good. Abbi: families that look that look different, multi-generational homes, you know, like and I th and if parents are aging in place or you have like siblings that live with you or like aunts and uncles like I just I feel like there is yeah, this hyper individual me and my immediate unit. And even in the church I think sometimes where that and I Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: Forgive me, Jesus, in all honesty, I don't want to be heretical or say the wrong thing. But the way that we've even been like taught and adapted, like leaving your father and mother and what what that means or what that looks like. And I think we've taken it to mean one very one way of doing it. ⁓ but Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: I think we start have a bigger imagination that would ⁓ maybe allow more people to feel confidence ⁓ to step into fostering. ⁓ I it would create a a bigger like a more communal environment anyways. ⁓ and I think think that starts in so many different ways. It's just like Are we in relationship with people that look like that look different than us, that think different than us, ⁓ across denominations, across cultures, across ethnicities and races. Like the more diverse we are, I think the greater unity we will have. And then that's gonna just have like so many beautiful trickle down effects. But I think that we've just lost our imagination. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Abbi: for what family can be. And I do think that people hide behind the statement of, ⁓ I'm not I don't feel called to do that. I do think that not every person has to be a foster parent. Like I don't think it's sinful or wrong, you know, if you're not. ⁓ because it is hard work and if you don't have the capacity for it then and and if you're not emotionally intelligent and you don't have that community, like I don't know if maybe you that would be a good fit, you know. But I think it's just easy. It's easy to hide behind Christian language, I guess is what I'm trying to say, of like I don't feel called to that or I don't feel this or that when I I believe that we're we are all called to image God by taking care of each other. And again, that looks that looks different. Like we're called to take care of people who can't take care of themselves in many different ways. And so if we can start to Anna Casey: Mm, yeah. Abbi: open our minds to doing that. in general and with more intentionality, then I think that maybe it would help. ⁓ because I think the easy answer is, well, if one family in every church decided to foster a child, then we wouldn't have a problem anymore. And that is a true stat and it would it would functionally solve a problem. But I think work in psychology and therapy is like taught us that like if you don't go deeper Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Abbi: and there's not a heart alignment, then things can break down pretty quickly and we can actually cause like more harm than good. And so again, I'm not a master psychologist, I'm not a pastor, I'm just a girl. I'm just a girl. But I yeah, I would my hope is that we would just have a bigger imagination and see where that leads us and let the spirit lead. With with that, probably. Anna Casey: That's beautiful. Just a girl with a huge heart and a huge imagination who is knee deep in the process in the trenches and who loves God and who loves God's people. Just a girl. Abbi: Ha ha ha. I'm just a girl. I literally have I have cried to Jesus in prayer in my bathtub and that was my prayer one time. It was like, I'm just a girl. Like so yeah. Yeah. Anna Casey: Your voice well, your voice is important and your story is important. So yeah, it's I get what you're saying, but it is so appreciated and just beautiful and needed. So thank you. I did not prepare you for this question, but if someone's listening to this and Abbi: Thanks. Thanks, Anna. ⁓ Anna Casey: they're seeing things in a new way, due to this conversation. ⁓ what advice would you have for a person who ⁓ interested in maybe looking into fostering or just taking that first like baby step into ⁓ becoming a foster parent? Abbi: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ that's a good question. I think on the practical parenthood side, I would probably say like is there any other area of your life that you have spent time with children? so like for me it's so easily it's so easy to pendulum swing and especially like in the evangelical setting with like the music and the emotion and you know you can just be like, I'm gonna do this and that's I don't want to say that that's not the spirit. Like I can't I can't say that. But I think it can be very easy to like jump into something when like, okay, like have you ever spent time around your friends' kids? Like have you Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Mm. Abbi: Do you have a younger sibling? So I think just like exposure to just like caring for children ⁓ in some capacity is helpful on a practical side. I think you know you can do your research and you know look up stats and see if like where do like what how does your heart respond like whenever you read things. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: Listen to people's stories like ⁓ if you are in a church setting, I'm sure if you went to your pastors or deacons and said, like, hey, I'm feeling this, what do I do with this? Surrounding that with like prayer and counsel and community I think would be a helpful thing and I'm sure that you know, you could be connected with people to like start having those conversations. Anna Casey: It's really good. Yeah. Abbi: So maybe I would do that. I think the again, like the older I get, the more I'm just like I don't I don't know, like I just don't want to try to be all things to all people, I would like to stop being as prideful and think that I know it all. So I think the more just like conversations and advice and like exposure would probably be my my thing. And just know that like you are signing up for something difficult. I think It's easy to like romanticize things. And so just like being sober minded maybe don't want to take the joy away from it either. Cause like that's one of the things that was so so hard whenever like ⁓ I remember like getting married is like people were like, This is gonna be the hardest thing ever, and I just hope that you're prepared. I was like I don't know if I don't know if I wanna do it anymore. Like, okay, you know. So like there's gonna be joy too, but I don't know. I think just like being in community Anna Casey: Yeah. I what you're saying though. like start bringing that into the conversations that you're having and start like talking about it. Start asking questions. start bringing it to light, like with people, you know what I mean? Like where people can witness that in you, you know what I mean, or people can see that in you and talk about that with you. Abbi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anna Casey: That's what I took from that, at least. Okay, last question. ⁓ What you hope that Elle remembers ⁓ and ⁓ as grows up? ⁓ And do you hope that she will tell her story? Abbi: ⁓ gosh. Okay. I'm gonna cry, so let's just Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Abbi: I hope I mean I think I hope that she feels safe in so many different ways. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: safe like on a practical level that we like maybe first comes to mind. I hope I hope that she feels really safe to like be herself. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: Her story is going to be a hard one, but a powerful one. Anna Casey: Good. Abbi: And I just like I don't I don't want her to shy away from being whoever she becomes because she felt like she had to choose one person over the other. Like as somebody, so I'm adopted by my dad, so my mom has always been in my life, but my biological dad hasn't ⁓ and has been in and out and It took me a really, really long time to even feel comfortable asking my stepdad to adopt me, even though he offered multiple times. Just because I was like, ⁓ well, I don't want to hurt anybody or I don't wanna like leave anybody out or like I just like I think I've always been afraid to be the full expression of myself and I would hope that Elle would feel loved and safe enough. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: to be the full expression of herself and not feel like she has to edit herself for one person in her life. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: So I think I I want everything for her. Like I I d I want I want it all for her. ⁓ but I don't know and as a child who is coming from ⁓ hard ⁓ familial things. ⁓ For whatever reason, I think we all we we take that on ourselves and as we get older we start to learn more of the practical sides of our story and I think a really natural response is like, Was I the problem? Was I too much? you start to place a lot of the decisions adults were making in their life. that were about them on And I I just hope that she knows that like she's so loved and like it it wasn't about her being not enough. wasn't at all. so I don't know really to say that, but I just Yeah, I don't know. And I hope that she feels championed. Anna Casey: Mm. Abbi: And I hope that she feels important. And that she can be silly and loud or quiet or funny or serious. Like I yeah, I just like the full safe, loved the full expression of herself. That's what I hope maybe. So yeah. Anna Casey: beautiful. Aww. Abby, thank you so much for sharing, for trusting me and this space enough to these deepest and hardest parts, ⁓ but also the ⁓ and the beauty ⁓ ⁓ like all the ⁓ as well. ⁓ And ⁓ Abbi: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Anna Casey: Just love you so much, love Elle so much, love your family so much. And ⁓ I know that there's gonna be so many people that are impacted by this. so if anyone ⁓ to reach out, Abbi: Thank you. ⁓ then Yeah. of course you can reach out to me. ⁓ Abby ⁓ A B I underscore pie. I think that's my Instagram handle. Just yeah. Give me a give me a DM. ⁓ but yes, anybody can reach out. I think yes, ⁓ I also wanna say like two ⁓ fun that I feel like if anybody's like nervous about being like parent parents in any way, shape or form. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yes. Abbi: I l I have loved like as they start to get a little bit older, like two things that Elle has just started to do recently. She has this little piano that she got for her birthday and it like will play music. And so she started to like tap it and play it and then she'll like spin around in like circles and dance. And I'm like, get it girl, get it and I like I can't I can't twerk it all, but I did Anna Casey: Awwww. You guys are gonna have the best dance parties. Abbi: Let's freaking go. Like, yeah, I whenever she was a baby, I would like hold her legs and like try to make her twerk a little bit. And I was like, I can't do this, but maybe if we start ⁓ young, like it'll be like she'll understand. ⁓ so I just love that she is like starting to like I don't know, like she become this little human. And then this other like the other day, we're reading this one book, and it's like Piggy Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm. Abbi: Piggy and Gerald or Gerald and Piggy. And there's several times throughout the book that Gerald literally says, like, groon, and that's how I do it. Like, like, ooh. ⁓ and ⁓ Elle started to do it like to the book, and she would be like, ⁓ like in the book and I was like I love this so much so it was just good. It was just good. So it's worth it. It's worth it. You're gonna have moments that are worth it. That's all I've got. Anna Casey: can't wait for El and to to play piano and, you know, be twerking together one day. It's gonna be great. ⁓ Abbi: ⁓ my god. I'm gonna be in the club with him girl. I'll be like eighty years old in the back. I'm like get it. Mm. Anna Casey: Awesome.