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Transgender Films for People Who Get Laid · Like a Virgin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Like a Virgin.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Rose Damu and I'm fran Dorado. This is the
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: podcast for purves, nerds and transsexuals reporting to you Live
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: from the Edge of Miasma and Wanting Your Sex and
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Wanting Your Sex.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Episode is basically I Want Your Teenage Sex and Death
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: at Miasma.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think that it made sense to put both
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: our discussions for both of these films I Want Your
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Sex by Greg Raki and Teenage Sex and Death at
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Can't mi Asthma by Jane Shoenbrunn together because they are
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I think, quintessentially Criterion Collection indie filmmaker films. They're kind
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: of queer filmmaker canon films. I would call them queer
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: homework films. They are filmilms that feel like homework. I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: don't think that that is a bad thing. That's not
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: a pejorative. It just is for a specific kind of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: fewer in my opinion.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Sound well, I like homework.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I like homework sometimes, I homework as something extremely negative.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I like homeworks sometimes. But okay, Ross, let's be real
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: with aversions. And I'm not trying to, you know, like
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: neg these films immediately because there's things about these films.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Both of these films that I liked. But I do
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: think it's a little telling that both of us significantly
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: procrastinated to see these films.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's interesting that we each saw an
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: opposite film, yeah, and then procrastinated seeing the other one.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And what I find interesting about it is you saw
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the film that I feel like I would have wanted
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: to see more, and I saw the film first that
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I feel like is more your vibe. Yes, that's true.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I saw I Want Your Set a couple of weeks ago,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and I literally just saw Camp Miasma this afternoon, minutes
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: minutes from the theater. Is the opposite. Yeah, I was
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: so excited for Camp Miasma, Like I was trying so
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: hard to get into a screening and then got invited
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: to one and couldn't go. Yes, And yet for some reason,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: once it was in theaters, anytime I was gonna go
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: see it, I was just I just like found something
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that I really wanted to do more and that thing
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: was usually getting Stone Yeah nothing.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, that's that is The thing is like, is like.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Uh uh controversial.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I think movies should be entertaining and movies that you
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: want to see, but also sometimes you have to see
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: movies for your job, and you know, I don't work
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: at them to us anymore, but I do have to
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: see this these movies for my job on this podcast.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And movies were literally made to generate them dot us headlines.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah kind of yeah, Like, I think that's kind of
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the tea to.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Be dissected on queer podcasts.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I think they're both cool entrance to a certain kind
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of canon. I think they're both from filmmakers that are
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that belong to queer filmmaker canon. And also like, yeah,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: you thought they were boring. Yeah, I thought they were
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: boring as fuck.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Which one did you like more?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I liked I Want Your Sex more?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Okay? Same? Oh, oh loved I Want Your Sex. I
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: gave it four and a half stars on Letterbox. Okay.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I haven't given my my my rating yet on that.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't done my can't miasthma, but I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: feel like talking about it will get me to a
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: number by the end of this episode. But I it
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: was kind of the opposite I figured I would like.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And I will say I've been keeping you in the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: dark about my thoughts on camp miisthma. So I'm just
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: gonna level set for this conversation. I really liked both movies.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they both feel like you're I.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Had more problems with Camp Miasma. I just I really
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: unambiguously loved I Want Your Sex. Like it became canon
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: to me, like pretty instantly. It became like specifically sex
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: comedy cannon. Yeah, whereas can't Miasma. I don't see that
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: entering canon for me.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Interesting. I honestly okay, I like you said, I enjoyed
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I Want Your Sex more. I kind of felt like
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: the that I Want Your Sex felt a little bit
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: more like a flash in the pan. I thought it
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: was way more entertaining to watch. I thought the performances
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: were a little more interesting. Even though I thought that
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the acting performances in both these films are awesome, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: did not really see I see it in a canon
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: of queer film. But do I see it in the
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: sex comedy cannon next to like Baby Girl? And you
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: know you wrote in our notes the Secretary Secretary other
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: erotic like kind of power play thriller, erotic thriller is
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: almost or whatever.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: And I think this is specifically a sex comedy, yes,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and that is and that is I think what differentiates
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it from something like Secretary.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Well, one could argue that kat Miasmas is a sex
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: comedy as well. But my my thing with Kamiasma is
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I almost felt like it was an actual entrant into
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: a canon because it's never been done before. In my opinion,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: where I and we can get we'll get into it.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: But but my high level is that I Your Sex
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: felt like something that I very much so have seen,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: even though I thought it was a more entertaining ride
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: of a film.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Well, let's start with I Want Your Sex.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I Want Your Sex. Written and directed by Gregoraki, who
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: is a very important queer filmmaker. You've probably heard. His
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: most famous movies are what he refers to as the
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Teen Apocalypse trilogy, Totally Fucked Up, Doom Generation, and Nowhere.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I would say Doom Generation is his most iconic film,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: if mostly because it's very enduring aesthetically. You know, Rose
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: McGowan in that fuck ass Bob with the sunglasses on.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Mysterious Skin might have more eyes on it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Mysterious Skin is probably it's maybe his most prestigious film,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: but it got the best critical acclaim right with my
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: favorite film of his and actually literally one of my
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: favorite movies is Smiley Face, the stoner comedy with Anna Faris.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: He also, yes, as we said, Mysterious Skin starring Joseph
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Gordon Lebe and the late Michelle Trachtenberg. Really weird, beautiful
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: story about sex and trauma and aliens and pedophilia. But
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: you know, Iraqi has always made movies about young people
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and their experiences with the world, largely through sex, So
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: it makes so much sense that he would come in
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: now at a time when I think the youth needs
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: some education about sex more than ever. I just think
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the timing is really correct. So he called it a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: love letter to gen Z, which I think is really interesting.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: That's a upemsam. He hates gen Z for sure.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I actually really believe him. I think I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: think the film is pretty tender towards them. You know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I hate that word. I don't know if that's true.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: There's some net gang, there's some gen Z neckgang. There
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: there is, but I think it's like a but it's
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: definitely directed at Yeah, I think it's more of a
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: call in than a call out because I went into it,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I think expecting it's him to say gen Z you guys,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: don't fuck you need to start fucking your lame you're stupid.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And in fact, what I think the movie is really
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: trying to say is it is worth getting your heart broken.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: It is worth experiencing drama or trauma to be able
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to have the experiences that turn you into like a
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: fully formed adult. Interesting and also and also like adding
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: on that thesis, it's it's also like the film is
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: kind of saying, like, you know, we're saying people that
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: are angen Zer are kind of like just go get laid,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Go get laid, go have crazy sex. You have crazy sex.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And the end of this film is kind of like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: well maybe sensationalist sex to know, end has its consequences,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe you should think a little bit about what you
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: engage in and how consequences.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: But then it comes back around like it has We're
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: by the way, we're spoiling these movies.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: They barely have spoiler In my opinion, both of these
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: films are like basically unspoilable. I don't really think they
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: have plots. Okay, but no, no, sorry, Sory, sorry, I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Want Your Sex obviously has a plot, but the reveal, well, no, okay,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: there's a reveal.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, TLDR of the plot.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I was going to talk more about Greg. Well,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: i'll talk about it after. I wanted a table set
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: more about Greg's filmmaking work. But we'll talk about it.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh no, let's let's talk about that. We're still contextual.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: The other thing I kind of want to ask you
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: because you've seen more Gregoraki films than I have. In
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: my impression, in addition to the stuff you said about
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: it being about young people reckoning with sex, I think
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: often his characters they all kind of talk the same,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: which isn't a bad thing, you know. I enjoy like
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Quentin Tarantina movies. I enjoy movies where like all the
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: characters talk the same, but they're all like kind of
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: nihilist jerks, you know what I mean. They're all kind
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: of like, we're all gonna die, and so I'm gonna
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: be a huge bitch and I can kill and fuck
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: anything I want. And I think that when Gregoraki arrived
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: on the scene, the loudness and the propulsiveness of that message,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: of that thesis, I think really created his reputation as
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a director, like that that being someone who was sex driven,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: who was kind of like no almost like no rules
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: filmmaking in some ways as a super click quintessential indie filmmaker.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I was, I feel like his film equalities have a
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: lot his film has a lot of those qualities.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I think it's I think his films are
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: generally a little less nihilistic than you.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Than the Apocalypse trilogy obviously is. But yeah, but also
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: there's there's others that aren't. You're saying no, but no,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes, there are there are films. There are
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: films of his that are like maybe a little more hopeful.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: But I actually think he is as in all of
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: his films, he balances nihilism with hope. Like there's always
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: a character in his films, Like I think it's like
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: in Doom Generation it's the guy who is his muse
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: who shows up again in I Want Your Sex. He
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: he's like a very like innocent, naive and sort of
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: hopeful character. And yes, like he loses that over the
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: course of the film. I mean he literally gets his
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: dick chopped off at the end. Forgot that.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: But I think Greg Iraki is not trying to make
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: movies that are like everything is fucked, so do whatever
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: you want. I think he's making movies that say, whether
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: everything is good or everything is fucked, you should still
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want as long as it's not hurting
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: other people. Okay, But then I think this movie kind
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of complicates that because Olivia Wilde's character like loves to hurt,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: does hurt Cooper Hoffman and.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: In many literal and figurative ways.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: But ultimately he appreciates that pain, which is like kind
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of kind of what I was getting to with like
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the the like lesson. I think that the film is
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: teaching his character and like gen Z or audiences in general.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But let's let's yeah, give a brief description of the film.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So it's about Elliott, who's a twenty three year old
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: just out of college who gets a job working for
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde's crazy art hoe Erica Tracy Yes, who's an
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: older artist. She has this gallery that shows her work
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and she grooms him into a subdown sexual relationship.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: And the character Elliott specifically contests the label of griomy.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: He doesn't think he's been grimmy. He's like this was
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: consentdraal the whole time. But if like, if you watch
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the film, it's like the kind of textbook grooming. Yes,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: he also is dating Charlie XCX randomly. He's dating Charlie
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: X who doesn't want to fuck him, who doesn't want
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: to fuck him. And it's a really it's a really
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: great kind of like dichotomy for the main character to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: be in this base, sickly sexless relationship with a woman
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: who hates him. And he's kind of I think he
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: as he says in the film, he likes that she
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: hates him, he likes that she treats him like dirt,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: but he doesn't get the sexual catharsis of that kind
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of like m humiliation kind of kink.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Well, she doesn't even want to hang out with him, No,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: she just doesn't like him. And I think the thing
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: is that Olivia Wilde's character does is she has the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: same sort of you know, sadistic disinterest about his feelings,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: but she really wants him.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: She wants to fuck him for sure, and and maybe
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: wants a little bit more too, like companionship or other
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: things maybe you could say sometimes sometimes it's she would
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: deny that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: But that's a really interesting performance. The way I kept
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: with Olivia Wilde, like, I mean, she's really two for two.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: This year between this and the invite.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's making creat choices.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I think this performance specifically, she was so like insectile
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to me. She was very much giving, praying mantis, who's
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: going to eat Cooper Hoffin's head after she fucks him.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: She's in all of these like crazy avant garde looks.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: She has this insane blonde hair. She's always got red
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: lipstick an eyeliner on. She's so armored and she makes
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Elliott so she takes all of him. I mean he
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: starts off like he doesn't have any armor. He's like
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: so naive, and she, I guess, kind of teaches him
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: that he needs to build some.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's I want to I honestly, all the
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: characters are so interesting to me. We can go through
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the one by one. The stylization of Erica Slash Olivia
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Wild is so like purple passion, like London fetish, like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Gothic Renaissance, kind of coded like she get she she
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: shops at the fetish stores for daytime clothes, which is
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: a very specific kind of girl, you know what I mean.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's more like she's mixing like stuff from
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Dover Street Market. We have stuff from the Pleasure Trust.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It looked like a lot of it looked expensive, even
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: if the stylization was sometimes so jarring. It's very it's
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: really really a huge part of the film to me.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Like her what she wears is like very loud. It's
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: not meant to fall into the background, you.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Know, it's aggressive. I mean, this is an incredibly stylish film.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I loved watching a movie with where the way it
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: looked had really been considered, Like from the production design.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Elliot's like extremely colorful room.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, all the apartments and houses and gallery.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: It just it's such a cool film to look at.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I want I need to own every vintage T shirt.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Cooper Hoffman worse yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: His rings too were Oh my god, he's so sexy.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: He is kind of sexy in this sexy he's.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Like besides the fact that he's twenty three, that's too
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: young for me, he's like my type to a.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Tease and it worked for the film. I didn't know
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: that he is Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. I honestly never
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: would have known, even though they look so alike, their
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: acting style is so different in such a way. But like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: he's an amazing actor. I'm like excited to see more
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: of him.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Incredibly dialed in performances from everyone from Olivia to Cooper
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Hoffman to David Diggs who plays her assistant, and that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: bitch from the New I Know What You did last
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: summer who was his roommate? Oh yeah, which that part
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of it I found so interesting because I was like, Okay,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: so at first I thought like, oh, she's just a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: lesbian and doesn't know it, and then they go to
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: have a threesome of the Olivia wild and she's like, well,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: she's also.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: In love with him. Yeah.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It was so interesting. I can't I actually like, at
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: no point in the film, well a very few points
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: in the film was I able to predict to what
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: was going to happen next. And that is the mark
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: of good storytelling me because I usually can spot that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually would agree with that. I thought the
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: plotting was fab and the characters that drove it fab.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: The I also, I will Will I think we should
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: lay out more of the plot. But with Charlie. I
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: this is the first time I've seen Charlie act. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: did not. I haven't seen the moment, I haven't seen
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: what is it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: When it came out on HBO. It's actually really good.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I heard.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see it. I haven't seen Europea or
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: whatever that film. I heard, she's amazing in it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I actually just watched a movie that she's in that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I can't talk about.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: But oh, and there's another one that was kind of buried.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It's called one hundred Nights of one hundred Nights of Here.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to see that.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was lesbian. I assume it wasn't good because
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: no one talked about it. But but I'm like obviously
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: so excited by Charlie as an actress. In general, I
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: would have loved more Charlie in this film, but I'm
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: assuming that she had like one day to film, you
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: She's so perfectly dead pan monotone. I like that she's
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: older than Cooper Hoffman's character, but not as old as
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde's character, so it like shows us he has
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this thing for powerful, slightly older women. If we are
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to read Charlie as being older than him in
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the film, like she is in her mid thirties, I
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: think that's safe to assume.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And since these are the queer homework films. We watched
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: these films, so you don't have to, although you should
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: if you want to. I think maybe will I think
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: we should do more or plot summary and maybe like
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: analyze along.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Way, so Elliott lands this job at the gallery.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: He well, the movie starts with him in. The movie
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: starts with a scene in which we see him come
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: out of Erica's house and there is seemingly a body
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: floating in the pool, so we know something crimey, murdery
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: maybe is happening. And then the movie is framed around
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: these sporadic pieces of his interview with two detectives kind
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of you know, detailing his relationship to Erica, and they
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: very clearly are telling him that he has been groomed,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and he is at every opportunity pushing back against that
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: narrative and talking about how much he wanted it right.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And it's clear that their relationship was formative to him
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: in a way that was kind of beyond the buzzword.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And so as the film goes on.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: A little further away from as the As.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: The film goes on, we they enter a subdom relationship,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: like the textbook subdom relationship where she orders him around
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: she you know, asks him in the bucks, him in
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the ass asks him for any time. She asks him
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: for sex. He complies and loves it, dresses him up,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: sends him even to fuck someone else as like this
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: kind of cooky thing. That is an interesting scene. They
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: continue on this relationship. They both are in a way
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: having an affair. Wait, Olivia Wilder can remember she's in
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a relationship, but it's an affair because he's in a relationship.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: He's like, you know, cheating on Charlie Xah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: But it is secretive because I know one at her gallery.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I can know that they're fucking right.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Even though the people that work at the gallery definitely know,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: definitely know, because he's not the first and not the
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: last time. No, it was kind of giving that da
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: v Diggs, her assistant was maybe like the first was
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: and maybe now is almost the uh, Gislaine because because
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: David is facilitating it, but facilitating.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It the gallops Olivia Wilde fake her death.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the the other characters that the the infrastructure of
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: the gallery supports Alby Wilde getting her rocks off because
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it's what the artist needs in order to make this work,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: in order to produce his body of work. The scene
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: that you were referring to rose about Elliott's best friend,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Uh not lesbian girl who's like, clearly a lesbian girl?
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Is her room?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Is a roommate question. When the movie starts, she's talking
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: about covering his rent and I was like, Oh, this
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: must be his girlfriend who's gonna cheat with But then
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: it turns out they're just best friends.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're best friends and roommates.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And they're both allegedly straight. Like, why would they be
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: living together?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Why would be friends?
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And also, like the character, the roommate frequently says one
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: or two different things that are kind of like, isn't
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: it I wish I could just have sex without the penis?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: You know, like you know, it's just kind of like, Okay,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: this character is supposed to be gay and she doesn't
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: know it. One of the kind of escalating moments of
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the film happens when Olivia Wilde is like, I want
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to have a threesome tonight. Bring one of your friends.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: He brings the roommate, who is very excited about it
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: because she hasn't had sex in over a year. They
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: get really drunk, they show up, and they start to
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: have engage in a threesome, and the roommate kind of
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: breaks down and feels like, honestly just mistreated by both
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: him and Olivia Wilde.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's mostly him, yes, because she's I think
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: she says, like, you'll fuck anyone, right, but me right,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: She's like, why am I so disgusting?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And and and what happens then is he gets kicked
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: out of the apartment and has nowhere to go, essentially
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: but back to Olivia wild creating like more series of
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: events that heighten the stakes.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Well, then he also stays with his gay guy friend,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: who is the Mason Gooding as the least convincing straight
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: actor playing a gay guy in a movie.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Ever, I also almost felt like, and I felt this
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: about other parts of the film, but like I felt
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: like his character was not amazingly written. I think that
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the way that the gay guy talks about sex is
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: like so first thought, I don't know, but I feel
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: like if you had cast the right person in them,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: maybe it would have been, like there's a normans would
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: have elevated it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Like I think if you cast like a I don't know,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: like a Jordan Firs.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, yes, because it's like his name is Mason Gooding,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: with Mason Gooding like delivers the lines about like having
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: gang bangs or like having two hookups one day, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I think that the way they're delivered is very like,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: this is shocking. This is supposed to be a shocking
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: thing that gay guys do, but in reality, if it
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: was Jordan Firstman as an example, it would be so
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: like silly, playful, nonchalant. There's an intensity about this character
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that I thought was like unearned, unfunny. It did not
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: laugh once, although.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I did laugh a lot during this movie, but not
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: anything he said.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I will also say before we get into the plot,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: like kind of related to this that I'm gonna be
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be mean me okay, okay, okay.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I felt like the way this film treated sex I
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: think as amazing Gooding as an example, but also the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: many different depictions of a subdom.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Relationship were so like.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: They felt like they were for and it's and it's
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: funny because the film is geared towards gen z and
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: therefore maybe oriented around an audience that doesn't have the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: ostensibly in theory, doesn't have as much of a sexual
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: education that you that like we might want out of
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the as sexually liberated millennials or whatever fucking generation we are.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: But I just I just.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Felt like it was a child like the subdom relationship
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: between Livia Wilde and Elliott. It was just very like
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: a child's idea of what a subdom relationship could be,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: using thee.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I kind of thought that was the point.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I was gonna say that I think
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: it is in part actually the filmmaking style of Gregor
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: ROCKI like, I think.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: That he is.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Making I think he has I think he platforms characters
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: that are not as much human as they are archetypes
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: or or honestly like characters in a graphic novel, right,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Like I do think.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: A lot of his movies have the feeling of like
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: fables or fairy tales.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say action figures that he's kind of
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: like pushing together and I don't think that's a bad thing,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: but it definitely did not feel extremely human. Even though
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the acting was great and I loved how these characters
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: engage with each other, I felt the acting was bab
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I think that the way it treated sex when it's
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: when I'm thinking about things like Pillion or Baby Girl,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: or other depictions of a sub dumb relationship or other
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: depictions of people that are discovering kink for the first time.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Are are so like those two films I just mentioned
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: are so successful and beautiful and realist, like they're they're
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: like lately awkward. There's like this slow build. There's so
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: many things that I think make it feel like a
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: real relationship. And and what Gregor Iraki does with the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: sex in this film is like a like almost one
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: hundred percent either shock value or comedy value, which I
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: don't think is a bad thing. Again, but I just
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: kind of like it sometimes. I was just kind of like,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: as somebody who does have a lot of sex, sorry,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: as as two girls that like do engage in relationships
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: like these, I was sometimes like I sometimes struggled with that.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I understand where you're coming from. I do think all
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of that is intentional. Iraqi said in an interview with
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Vanny Fair that he really wanted to put something into
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the world that was sex positive, and I think making
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: the sex stylized makes it more accessible to the generation
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: he's trying to talk to, who I think if they
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: were watching a more naturalistic depiction of sex they would
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: be it would be easier for them to point out
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: it and cringe. And because it's already stylized and there's
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: a bit of remove, I think they're more able to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping or assuming take it in with the same
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: level of artifice as the rest of the film and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: thus like be able to experience it in a way
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: that they wouldn't if they just saw the sex and
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like ran away from it. Yeah. I think making it
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: as heightened as the styling and the production design.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: And it like made it more palatable.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It made it more palatable.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would be.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I honestly wish we had some data, like because if
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: you if we were to compare, like, oh, does gen
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Z watch or enjoy a film this film like Greg
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Rocky more than they might watch or enjoy a Baby
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Girl or a Pillion. I'm just kind of like I
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: would I wish I could know more about that.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I just generally don't know if people from gen
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Z are seeing this film.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: No, I I honestly I don't know anybody's seen I
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: think it's like gen X and queer podcasters, Yes, it's
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: queer podcasters and like people that are that are on
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: letterbox and people that love Criterion collection. That's to me
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the demographic of both of the films.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: A sidebar, did you see that Criterion is doing a
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: whole Madonna month. They're doing a whole like films of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Madonna thing.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so excited. I've not seen very
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: many Madonna films. I've actually not seen like almost any.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Have you you've seen Truth or Error? No?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I mean yes, sorry, sorry, I've seen TU and I've
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: seen a league their own.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the Next Best Thing? No, it's a
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it's a weird one, but a good one.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would love I'm going to follow
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: along with that. Thank you Criterion.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: But yes, this is this is a very heightened movie
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: in every sense, and I think that's why it really does.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Like knowing about what he like was was seeking out
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: to gift the world with this film, I think it
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense to.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Do that, and I you know, applaud him even though
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: he had the needle drops of famed zionist Jesse Ware
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and famed transphobe Rouche Murphy.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: That was kind of crazy.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: That was kind of crazy. To have both is really crazy.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he doesn't know and doesn't.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Care, doesn't know, it doesn't care, And that's great. That's
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: great because unfortunately Roschia Murphy and Jesse we make bops
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: not anymore. I think that their bop era is kind
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: of over. I don't really like Rossan Murphy's most recent album,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and I haven't really listened to anything Jesse has released
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: after the Pleasure album. But anyways, just thought that was
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: just to have both in the film. Was that I
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: was like, this is crazy, also really random of Jeremy
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Scott in this movie.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Did you see that? Yeah, so it led some credibility
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: to you know, the realism of Olivia Wilde's character as
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the kind of person who Jeremy Scott would show up
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to her show. So the show, I think is like
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: very pivotal in the plot because all throughout the first
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: half of the movie, Olivia Wilde's character and her assistant
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: are talking about how important this show is because we
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: do see that her her art is making less of
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: an impact than it used to. I think that is
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: very much Greg Iraki probably situating himself and his own
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: art in the contemporary media landscape. And so the show
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: is really pivotal. And at the show, Cooper Hoffman's character
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: discovers that Olivia Wilde has been filming all of their
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: sexual encounters, presents it as a piece of art. He
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: gets it's really mad, really drunk, makes this whole scene.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: She is immediately canceled, and then lures him back to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: her house too. We find out later stage her own
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: death to ensure a comeback that could only be possible
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: if he actually believed that he killed her or that
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: she died. Something happened, and by staging her own death
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: ensuring that her art appreciates in value, because when you're
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: an artist, you're artist most valuable when you're dead. And
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: they immediately sell everything in the show, which even though
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: which was exactly what would happen exactly.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Critically, he has critically panned everyone hates. The New York
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Times or the MoMA curator that was at the show
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: didn't like it, and a lot of people found it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: to be and I think that's honestly, if you see
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: any of the art that's in this gallery, it feels
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: very rudimentary. It feel it feels like bad art. It's
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: very first thought. And so the the movie you know,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: seemingly ends with Cooper Hoffman, you know, confronting a via
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Wilde's character giving her a piece of his mind. They're
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: never going to see each other again, and she tries
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to tell him, like, I did this so that in ten, fifteen,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: twenty years from now you can make art about it,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and you should thank me for that. And the next
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: time we see him, the movie jumps forward.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: He has a podcast.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, he has a podcast.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Fortunately has a podcast, and he is making quote unquote
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: art about his trauma. He has her on as a
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: guest to talk about their history and thanks her for everything,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: thus proving she was right, And like, I think it's
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: a little cynical, but I also think it's very true.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that okay, I'm not gonna lie.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I felt like the film did not really have much
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: to say about sex and power. I think that it
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: was much more about the plot and the characters than
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: it was a the ma question about sex.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: And power.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Or a love letter to gen Z. However, I did
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: think that the resounding kind of know of oh, you
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: can have like crazy sex, dramatic sex, sex that ruins
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: your life, sex that's like bad for your person and
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: your material well being, and yet maybe that's okay because
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you can make art about it later.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm going to disagree. I think the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: film has a lot to say about sex and power
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and about the ways we trade them for each other,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: because kober Hoffmann trades sex for the power of Olivia
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Wilde's attention, and he eventually realizes that he has traded this,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you know, sexual trauma that he's experienced for the power
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: to kind of like self actualize.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and much like Baby Girl or Pillion, where the
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: character who is discovering their fetish as the engine of
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: the film, the dramatic engine of the film, they do
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: not end up with the character that unlocked that for them,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: but they as a character are better off for it.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Although in the last moment of this film there is
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: a fantasy wedding sequence that turns out to be a
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: dream experienced by both the characters.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily need that. I thought the podcast ending
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: was would have been much stronger, but I did. I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: laughed through so much of this film. I was so funny.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I did not laugh at all during this film. But
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I think I saw it at like the kind of
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: like not the BAM theater, but the kind of like
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: rejected BAM theater above the whole foods. Do you know
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: that one? It's like a screening room that's like so
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: quiet and small, so I didn't really watch it with
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a super activated audience. And that's that has to be
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: like taken into account. As a total aside, Rose, I
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: feel like something needs to be done about an epidemic
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: of films trying to portray podcasters, Like it's it's almost
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: remember when films were like, let's portray COVID and everyone's like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: stop doing that, and then people were like, let's do
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: films that portray people getting canceled, and everyone's like, stop
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: fucking doing that, and then it's like, let's make films
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: about influencers. Is always annoying. I think I kind of
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: feel the same way about podcasters. I'm like, I'm like,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: we have not yet nailed what is cinematically interesting about
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: recording a podcast. To me, it just felt like such
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: a such a wet fart of a of a essentially
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: the denouement.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I thought it was hilarious, like him when he starts
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: recording the podcast alone in his room, like that to
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: me is so real, Like there are that is that
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: is very much like an arche archetypal gen z Man,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: like you know, borderline in cell like making their own podcast,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: and then he's not an insult, but it's mirroring this.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, true, and he has certainly been driven to this
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: place where he, you know, hate seemingly hates women. But
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: when they cut to the podcast studio with her no
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: longer in her you know, like Comduggar song, Purple Passion drag,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: but now she's doing quiet Luxury the row like I
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: was laughing hysterically so funny.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, it was. It was funny.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: You it read, it read really well, and she has.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: The new version of him on her arm, like it
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was just it's like, yes, I don't necessarily think it's
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: like presenting this like aesthetically interesting depiction of podcasting, but
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: like podcasting as a punchline. That's fucking funny.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Well that's the other thing is like it reminds me
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: of like the unjust like that portrayal of podcasting where
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, who is funding this is such a
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: high budget like podcasting studio, What is going on? Who
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: is funding this? But I guess that doesn't really matter.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Exist, Yeah, we have recorded in some nice studios.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we had a good we have a good podcast.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I don't want to listen to this guy.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Would never well, I would never Here's the thing. I
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: would never listen to that guy's podcast. I don't think
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I would really consume her art, but I would fuck
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Cooper Hoffman any universe once he's aged.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Up a little and like, maybe in the kind in
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: this style of fuck, what was the name of that
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: journalist that fucked RFK? You know who I'm talking about?
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I do, but in the style of that journalist who
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: fucked RFK and wrote a memoir about it. If I
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: was experienced this on experiencing this on Twitter in real time,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I would tune into this one episode and be like, oh,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I want to hear about Yeah, the drama from what
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: went down and what I love you Wild wrote is
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: because you know this, this story is seemingly the kind
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: of like media drama that would wind up on Jezebel, Yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: you know, or Gawker exactly still existed.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Does Gawker exist again?
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure there's no way of knowing.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Unimportant, Yeah, I'm the meanest thing that I'll say is
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: that the and I feel this, particularly about the final
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: dream sequence that you described were in. They both get
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: married and it turns out it was all just a
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: dream and they both had the dream and they wake up,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: their hairs just shovel and they're like what happened?
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Cut Like end of movie.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, girl, you are sixty
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: six years old, Like why are you making a film
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: like you are twenty seven when you first started making movies.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I was just it felt to me very like babies
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: for screenplay, kind of like, I mean, I know, Gregor
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Rocky's unseerious, it's not meant to be. Even though his
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: films are like Criterion, I don't know if prestige is
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: the word I would use to describe his filmmaking work.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: And this I was kind of like, Okay, there's nothing
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: prestigious about this to me.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I understand, I get what's gaming from in regards
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to execution, but I actually think his age is exactly
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the reason why that's the way the movie ends, because
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I think he's reflecting on the idea that a lot
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: of young people don't understand that our relationships are usually cyclical,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: and people often come back to each other multiple times
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: throughout their lives. And so I actually think ending it
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: on that note of like these people probably will fall
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: back into each other's orbit. I kind of like what
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that's saying.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely. One other fun fact, some an interesting
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: factory about this film is that Greg Rocky said in
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: an interview that the original script had the gender swapped.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: It was a male art gallery owner who was kind
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: of grooming a younger girl.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: So basically secretary but set in the art world.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, literally, And it was like, I mean both, it's
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: a me too film, no matter what. But I'm just
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: kind of like, what would that movie have looked? Like,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: why on earth would you write that movie? Actually? No,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I know why he, of all people, he I think
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Gregor Rocky, of all people, can actually nuance a really
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: tired trope or like do something fun and exciting with
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: it with a tired trope. But the other thing that
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I was kind of noodling on was like the the
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: the the way that this film kind of like doesn't
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: really care. I to me, it didn't film. It didn't
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: feel like that. The film had it actually a desire
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: to be important, you know what I mean? Like you
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: you you were saying earlier, like this is an important film,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And I do think that that is a way we
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: would talk about a Greg Rocky film. It's definitely the
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: way we'll talk about a Shane A Jane Schombrun film.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: As a culture. But I mean, well, I think people
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: are certain I'm saying people are certainly saying that for
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: a different reason, for for actually kind of the same reason.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: It's like a queer filmmaker queer, a queer filmmaker making
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: queer films. It's important.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think, but I don't think gregor
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Raki has ever tried to make a quote unquote important film.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I think that's true thing the culture maybe puts on.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Him to and and to and to that effect. I'm
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of like I I.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Was.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I was just I walked away kind of feeling like
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I well, okay, well here's the other thing that I
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: was gonna say, and actually a question more to you.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't read a ton of criticism about the film,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: but one thing I did read about was someone who
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: has seen all of Greg's films said that this is
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: maybe his most grounded film, like it was based the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: most in reality in ways his other films are not.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: And I, as a viewer of film, I kind of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: prefer a more grounded film versus something that's like surrealist. However,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: to me, the best parts of this movie were the
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: surrealist kind of whack a doodle flashes, Like there's moments
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: where characters are in part turned in their tits are
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: turned into a cartoon, where their faces are melting off,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: where the floor the bed is like sinking and he's
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: sinking into it. I think the surrealism was the most
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Those are to me, the most exciting parts of the
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: film and Gregor Roki's filmmaking, and I kind of wanted
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it to be more surrealist.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: See I liked that they were you sparingly because those moments,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I felt like every time something like that happened, it
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: was an exclamation point.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: It was for sure. And it also I think maybe
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: shows some of Gregoraki's growth in that maybe to be
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: more selective with the surrealism and championing a film that
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: is more quote unquote grounded. That is the evolution of
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: him as a filmmaker. Now we got to talk about
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: teenage sex and death at Camp Miasma, a film that
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: neither a film that neither of us enjoyed.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Question No.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: I liked you.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I liked it. I have problems with it, but I
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: liked it. I want to I want to give the
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: synopsis of the movie, and then I want to ask
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: you what you think this film is about and see
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: if we had like a similar takeaway from it. Okay,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: so teenage section. I think at Camp Miasma is about
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: a sun dance wondering kinned you know, up and coming
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: auteur director played by Hannah Einbinder, who has been brought
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: in to kind of cynically reboot the Camp Miasma franchise,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: which we are you know, led to understand through a
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: bunch of comparisons, is very much a Nightmare on Elm
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Street Friday, the thirteenth kind of slasher franchise.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: That has continued to depreciate in value as they all do.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, the first film starred this actress, Billy Billy something,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: who declined to be in the second film and was
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: never in any of the subsequent films, but now lives
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: at the abandoned camp where the first film was. The
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: director goes to the camp to have a meeting with
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: her to you know, kind of crack the story that
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: she is, kind of crack her way into the reboot
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and they strike up a flirtatious relationship and then that's
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: kind of where the synopsis ends, and things just kind
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: of start to get weird as this film the film
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: starts to blur into reality and it's very unclear if
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: things are actually happening, if they're a Dreamnah Salim, Yeah,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Hannah Einminder is pitching her take to the Hollywood executives
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and like it's really crazy. She and Julian Anderson hook
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: up that she reveals that the only way she can
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: really orgasm is to imagine herself as a victim in
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: a slasher movie, which low key same Yes, sure relatable
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean that's that's that's the essential synopsis
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of the film. What do you think this movie is about?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I think this movie is about Jane Shoan Brown. I
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: think that this character is a version of them, and
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that. Filmmakers do it all the time.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I think this is about a sexual relationship that Jane
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: had that unlocked some of these things, and also about
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Jane's relationship to slashers and the horror genre as someone
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: who's only really made kind of slasher kind of horror.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: E films or like horror films that are in the
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: table setting of horror, and and via this character, I
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: think the film is is less of a movie and
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: more of like what I would say, a personal essay,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: which I I I that is a dig. Sorry, I
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I think this movie would have been a stronger personal
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: essay and I and I'm sorry for it, even though
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I love a lot of things about Jane that I
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: will talk about and and in that essay, just as
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you alluded to earlier, Jane is saying, I the reason
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: that I love the slasher genre and horror in general
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: is to access the voyeurism, the catharsis of voyeurism, and
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: to be the murder, both the murderer and the victim,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: and and and and be an access the eroticism of
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that which lives and dies literally in slasher films in
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: and of itself. Right, It's like it's like that it's
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: really about it somebody who wants to get laid and
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and is trying to get laid. I think that I
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: could even say that this this film, to me, is
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: not scary at all. I don't even I'm curious to
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: know if it's meant to be scary. I think it.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Could be called an erotic thriller, but I.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Think could be more accurately placed into stoner rom com genre.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I would not. I would never call this
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: a rom com.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is that it is uh I
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: will talk about I will, I will, I will recap
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: my review if I saw the TV Glow. But this
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: film was at least funny.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: That was very like kind of even though I was
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the only person.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Laughing in theater, Oh my god, kind of. Ian Binder
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: and Julian Anderson inject so much chmedic value into this film.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: There's also really funny cuts like and needle drops that
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: are so funny. The filmmaking and editing are very comedic,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: and I liked that. And I do think the engine
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: of the film is like are they gonna are they
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: gonna fuck? And what will unlock in that? Fucking I
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: think it is all about fucking.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can I tell you what? I yes, kind of
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: extrapolated from it. I think this is a film at
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: its core about our how we as a culture have
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: evolved or devolved into people who over intellectualize art instead
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: of feeling.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: It, Which is funny because it's a deeply over intellectualized movie.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's I mean again, I think that's
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: kind of the point I though I don't know I
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and that is that is me being you know, very
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: generous and also trying to find something that is like
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: workable for me to pop into my worldview. Like I
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: actually did really like what I saw is kind of
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the you know, thematic engine of the movie. I found
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: it really striking. There were a couple things that like
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: really made me feel like that's like, yes, I do agree,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: this is a movie about sex. It's right there in
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the title.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But the problematization you're saying like you're saying over intellectualized. Later,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: there's a scene where Hanna E Minders watching the original
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: film with Jillian Anderson and like, you know, you know,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: leans over and it goes like this part is transphobic,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: which I think is the funniest line in the film.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: It was very funny, but it's exactly how we watch
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: films now. And then the scene where they're having a
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: KFC dinner.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: Thought I wanted to dive right into we will be ordering.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: After we finished recording tonight. But yeah, the that scene
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: where Gillian Anderson asks Hannah or Billy asks.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Actually, I don't who can I don't know what the character.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know asks Hannah to tell her about herself,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: and she starts talking about her debut film and like
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: all of the things that it was trying to say
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and supposed to be, how it was like a meditation
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: on gender and it was psycho from the point of
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: view of the shower curtain, like all of that overthinking,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: like very much to me is like a one to
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: one for our current culture of you know, our long
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: YouTube videos breaking down a half hour of television, like
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the our easter egg obsessed culture where everything has to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: be analyzed. That being, you know, put up against what
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Gillian Anderson says, which was that Cam't Miasma was only
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: ever about two things flesh and fluids. And this film
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: is really a journey of Hannah Einbinder's character getting out
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: of her head and into her body. Right, there's there's
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: this implay from Jillian Anderson from the filmmaking that's kind
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of like, girl, it's not that deep, like you know
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like like you're watching Scream and writing
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: like seven thousand word essays about it and like, girl,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: it's I mean Okay, Actually Scream is a bad example
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: because that film is like so commentary and it is
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: worth tons of essays because of it all. But like
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Slasher's in general, I think it's like those these films
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: are not that deep, So why are you kind of
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: talking about why it's transphobic or whatever?
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: For the virgins. Very important to note that, in my opinion,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: this film is most in conversation with a film called
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: sleep Away Camp from the eighties we've talked about on
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: the show before. It is about a kid at a
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: sleep away camp where kids other kids at the camp
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: keep dying and getting getting gruesomely murdered, and at the
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: end of the film you discover that it was her
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: all along and oh guess what, she's a he. It
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: has got a cock And that is truly that that
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: is the whole twist and is the final image in
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: the film is her with cock and screaming, and it's
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: like so and it's truly actually one of the most
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: transphobic things I've I've seen on screen.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also fucking amazing, and I think that's
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: what this film is saying.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: The film, the film is really beautiful and I think
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: it has great scares and the filmmaking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: yeah you could. And also, like you know, in a post,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: in a post uh commentary, in posts like retrospectively Evaluating Sleep,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: we can. We can say so many more things about
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: the trans experience and and supplant that meaning onto the
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: film that obviously the filmmaker did not have, Like the
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: filmmaker didn't give a fuck about trans people, didn't give
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: a fuck about any of the prop quote unquote problematic
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: elements of it. But we can insert the importance or
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: insert the transvengtive.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: We can't. We can choose not to and just enjoy
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: a slasher movie, which I think is like ultimately Jane
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Schoenbrun's message.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: Well yes, because like, well.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: There is this recurring there's this recurring line that we
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: learn is the tagline from Camp Miasma's VHS release, which
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: is if it gets too real, you can always turn
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: it off. And I was really trying to figure out
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: what that is, trying to say, like why is it
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: repeated so much about the film, Like at first I
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: was like, is this a movie about suicide?
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: All of Jane's films are about suicide.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's But then like I. As I was
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: sitting there in the theater trying to figure out what
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: it meant, I was like, wait, I'm doing what she
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't want me to do.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: That's my problem with you know what I mean. It's like,
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it's it's quite ironic to me that the film is
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: kind of saying, girl, it's just flash and fluids, like
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: it's not that deep. You should enjoy slasher movies, and
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: then made a slasher movie that no one is enjoying. Well, sorry,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: like no one's enjoying this movie.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: People.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: You're intellectualizing this movie. Yes, you're you're parsing through the
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: personal essay thesis. Yes, you're unlocking new things about yourself
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm learning. Oh yeah, I did think about that.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: I've always thought about that. I've always wanted someone to
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: clarify how I feel about the voyeurism of slasher. This
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: is so interesting. But it's like I can watch this movie.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: This movie was not entertaining.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm never gonna watch this movie again. No, I
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: can say that pretty definitively. Whereas I I saw I
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: watched the TV Glow twice and I liked it much
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: more the second time.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: A second time, I have a lot of problems with it,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: but the second time made it click for me a
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: little more.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about some of the things that we
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: liked yea in the movie, because because there were some
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: things I really enjoyed. I loved the opening title sequence
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: that builds the world of Camp Miasma. I thought it
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: was so realistically rot like. It really made the film
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: series feel real like, from the VHS cover design to
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: the arcade game like that was really well considered. I
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: liked Jack Haven as Little Death, even though I had
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: some The design of the slasher was weird to me.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: It was so they were so top heavy, which I guess.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Was the point, but silly.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: It's silly, silly and like ineffective as a slasher.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Also, it doesn't it's barely trying to be scary.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: I think the most confusing portion of the film for
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: me was the in world slasher movie. Like there's a
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: there's about fifteen minutes fifteen to twenty minutes of the
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: film that in which we are like literally watching the
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: original Camp Miasma alongside the two main characters, and I
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: thought it was so it just like didn't really seem
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: like an eighty slasher to me like the no, like
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: the gore was all CGI? Where were the practical effects? Also?
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: It made like.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Slasher movies are all about build up intension and in
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the film little death like immediately kills almost everyone are all?
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Are our practical effects more expensive? Was it a budget thing?
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Like? Is that what it is?
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: People think practical today? I think, yes, practical effects are
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: more expensive than CGI.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe it's a bunch of thing.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you're taking if you're making a movie
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: about iconic slasher films, like you actually like shouldn't be
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: using CGI, Like.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I know it can't come out of Gillian Anderson's budget,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: but like, come on, like you could have like squeezed
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: a few more pennies for some fake blood. Okay, Okay,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: back to things like we're supposed to talking about things.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Be like Jillian Anderson loved her amazing incredible, like so
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: soft but also hard, like such a great you know,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Norma Desmond impression.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Hannah Iinminder her body.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Is so tea crazy hot, so hot, perfect perfect breast.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: When when she is standing there trying to look sexy
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: in boxers and Boxers, I was like, I legitimately thought
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: it was hot.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: She looked sexy and also brilliantly was able to be
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: someone who was not sexy, you know what I mean.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Like Hannah Inminder's character is supposed to be awkward, no
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: game whatsoever, you know what I mean. And I think
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: that made a loser. It was she's a loser, and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: it was perfect for the film. She just glasses she has,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, she has glasses and then she takes them.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Off, and then she takes them off. Okay. Another thing
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: I really loved Ava Vic. It was so good as
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: the Mohawk Punk, so fucking funny. There's an amazing Jamie
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Lee Curtis trans joke that must be seen to the experience.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Playing with the lore slash transphobic rumor that Jamie Lee
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Curtis is in fact intersex, something that people believed for
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: a long time. Jamie Lee Curtis also has an intersex child,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: if you're not aware.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Another thing I liked with the surrealism. I loved how
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: this movie looked except for the CGI, Like, I really
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: liked how artificial everything looked. And there's even I noticed
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: very early on there's a scene where Hannah is walking
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: through the trees to get somewhere in the camp and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: she very clearly walks in front of a painted backdrop
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and it's like pretty early in the movie. So I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: loved those little, you know, surrealists flourishes. I loved how
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: artificial everything was, and that to me like gets very
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: much back to the if it gets too real, you
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: can always turn it off, you know, like, which I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: still I yeah, I still don't really understand what that's about.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: But I do definitely love the emmeshing of sex and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: death in this film, like the idea of being of
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: being turned on by death, so being turned on by
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: being a victim very never.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: I haven't really seen that before.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: It was sick.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: I think that I'll Okay, now it's my turn to
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: say some things I like about Jane shon Brun's mood.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Well, no, you could say stuff you hated.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: No, No, I've already done that and I will end
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: on that.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: But let me just say some nice things about Jane
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: shoon Brun because ultimately I want Jane's films to exist.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: I want transfilmmakers to keep making films. I will probably
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: see every Jane movie until they die or I die.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I might not enjoy any of them, but I'm going
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: to see them. But I that's a large part because
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: I love the fact that Jane is transgender. That's a
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: thing that I love about Jane. And I love that
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: all of their films tell Yeah, you can really tell,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: not just by the aesthetic value and personal essay nature
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: of their films, but the fact that they cast trans people.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: They are really digging into trans themes at every turn.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's so cool. I think that to the
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: point of you talking about sex and death, Like, I
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: love that Jane is smart and weird and that the
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: films are always that. And when you watch a Jane film,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: I love that there's no movie like it. There's there's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: like you could there are certain this This movie obviously
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: references slasher films like Nightmare and Elm Street or sleep
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Away Camp. Is definitely in a lineage of horror commentary
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: like a Scream or like Cabin in the Woods, but
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: it truly has no comps to me, like, no true
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: comps like and I think that's true. I saw the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: TV Glow.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: One thing that I thought was crazy on like the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: transnis wokeness of it all is the the one thing
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: that felt a little dated and like not of the
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: moment in terms of like commentary, was the idea that
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Hannah Einbinder would be brought into sort of do reputational
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: laundering for the franchise to make it seem woker and
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: less problematic, when like that is not something Hollywood cares
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: about anymore.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: No, No, well, post woke well in the development meetings,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: like it's kind of like they'll pretend to care about
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Ultimately they'll pretend to care about it, but ultimately they
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: don't want it, you know what I mean, Like anythink
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: that that there's there's some there's some kind of like
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: industry Hollywood industry satire that is super in my opinion,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: super successful, and I think accurately portray.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Part the Zoom is the meeting with the queer assistant. Yes,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: so literally says her name on the Zoom call is
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: queer assistant, I know. And then when they all show
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: up in like the I don't know dream sequence whatever
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: the fuck it is at the end and get killed.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just like, Uh, Jane's films are very heavy.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: They are, I do think. I'm sorry, I'll say it again.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I would much rather this be a personal essay. I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: would love to see Jane make a film that is entertaining.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Does she think that getting fingered is like the sexiest
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: thing you can do?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Well, that's my other gripe is that we need trans
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: film We need transgender films for people who get laid.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry the whole that's like so mean, because
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: I think that it's it's clear that Jane is someone
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: who is unlocking there. I think even they talk about
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: this in interviews. They're they're unlocked. They they've been unlocking
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: certain and accessing new parts of their sexuality. And some
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: of that is is in the film and and and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: or large the film largely discusses that. And yet the virginal,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: the awkward virginal quality of the character that Hannah Ian
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Binder is playing, to me in a negative way, impacts
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the overall quality of the film itself, which to me
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: is so like I'm like, you're a loser, Like like
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: if I'm comparing it to Greg Rocky, and like Greg,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Greg Rocky gets laid and it shows you know what
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, Jane, like not only was even though I
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: do think the orgasm is seen at the end is
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: actually so awesome, Like I thought it was so cool.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Was maybe one of my favorite scenes in the movie
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: when she finally comes, I'm like, that's really that was cool.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: It's good filmmaking. It's like it's it's the part that
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: you're really waiting for, but.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: It's you could say the climax.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: But homework is not sexy, and this film was homework.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: And I'll say it again, is it's it's not It
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: was not about flesh and fluid at all, you know
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: what I mean? And and I I for because and
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: I think, I wait, I think I just wish that
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: the that the series of murders was interesting or funny
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: or gaggy or goofy. It was, but it was so slow.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: It's really so it's.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Not a horrormantic climactic, so difficult to watch a lot
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: of the time.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: It feels like Jane's version of a David Lynch film.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Yes it was Lynchian for sure. And I think that
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: that's like I'm really nagging this film, but I'm not
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: gonna I'm not gonna say don't see this film because
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: it's it very much so has an audience and it
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: very well could be for you. Do I enjoy watching
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: movies like this that are like slow, like kind of
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: like little nails sticking into your eyes over and over again, hoping, praying,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: praying that you will be able to extract the exact
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: point that Jane wants to make when you compose your
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: letterbox review. Like, that's really what these films kind of
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: feel like to me, And I just to me, if
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: a film is going to be heady, if a film
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: is going to be an essay of a film wants
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: to make a really brilliant point, it does also have
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: to be entertaining and watchable. And I think this film
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: just was not to be outside of the comedy and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: the other things that we liked about it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: We have before us two films that claim to be
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: about sex, and I think only one of them fucks yeah,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: and it's I Want Your Sex, Yeah.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Even I also want to ask you, and I'll say,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: I think that that Gillian Anderson and Hannah Inenbinder have
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: amazing chemistry as actors, and that I believe the awkwardness
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: of this courtship. Did you think they had sexual chemistry?
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Not at all?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Not at all? Do you think that was Do you
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: think that ultimately I was kind of like, well, maybe
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that's okay, because that's the characters.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: No, I actually I thought it was a writing problem.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: It was one of my biggest problems because they have
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: really good chemistry. You can see them getting along and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, Hannah Einbeiner is like, will
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: you make me come? And it kind of comes out
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: of nowhere.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: I went to the screening that I saw, had to
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: talk back with Jane and Hannah, and Hannah Hannah reveals
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: I think they've I think she said this in a
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: few different interviews that they had they had no idea
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: that Jillian was going to come out in this jug
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: with a Southern accent, that it was like a complete
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: and total surprise, and that that's like Hannah's raw, real
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: reaction to her virtuosity and like absolutely whack a doodal characterization,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: like which I think is like, you know, a testament
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: to how amazing I'm an actress Jillian Anderson is and
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Hannah I think they're both amazing.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Hannah. Hannah was such a good choice for this
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: because she very much is channeling, you know, her hacks
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: character into some of the moments that are extremely contemporary,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: where she's talking and over intellectualizing, you know, the state
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: of the film industry and her work and can't miasma.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: But then there's actually like a lot of softness to
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: her in this performance that I hadn't seen before that
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I really appreciated.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And I mean, like, I also love
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Hannah Inenbeiner and now belonging to a canon of lesbian
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: age gap relationship kind of media because her vibe with
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Deborah Vance and the the will they won't they of
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: that is so clear by the end of the series
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: and hacks and and to me, I was like, Oh,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: I love that this is That's something that doesn't really
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: exist in media, and that's cool.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Well, these were both certainly stories, and they were powerful
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: to varying degrees, to varying degrees, and to varying rates
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: of success.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much time do we have left?
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Are we?
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: Are we at?
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: We're over an hour? So we should also.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: You know, let me can I end with like some
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: recapping of like I saw, not recapping, but recapping of
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: my review of I Saw the TV Glow when we
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: talked about it on this podcast.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: I walked out of.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: That film I Saw the TV Glow feeling like, oh,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: a version of what I felt with this film where
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, Oh wow, I never thought
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: I would see that portrayed on screen. I never thought
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: I would see these ideas get a box office release,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: and ever thought I would see a trans filmmaker make
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: something so clearly about trans identity and something so specific
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: within trans identity. Wow wow, wow wow wow. How amazing
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: it is to be watching movies at a time that
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Jane is making films. And also I would not recommend
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: this movie to anyone. And also I would not recommend
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: this movie to anyone because it was I mean that
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: I would give it. I'll give kat Ma Asthma one
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: additional star that I did not give. I saw The
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: TV Glow because it was funny.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: Where I saw The.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: TV Glow with perhaps the most unfunny movie I've ever
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: seen in my entire life. And I'm like including like
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: Shindler's List in that, you know what I mean, Like,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: I'm including like some really unfunny movies.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: I think there were moments of humor and I saw
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: the TV Glow, but for me, they mostly centered around
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: the things it was referencing, and that's like pretty similar
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: in CAN'TI Asthma?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: And again, this movie was not for me. It might
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: be for you.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: But and as you heard from this discussion, you can
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: have completely different opinions from us, and that's we don't
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: mind exactly. Like we had very different opinions about I
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: want your sex, and like I maybe enjoyed can't Miasthma
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: a little? Well, I definitely enjoyed can't ma Asthma a
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: little more than you did. But I do appreciate that
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: these are both very rich texts for us to discuss.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: I agree, these are films that you talk about, which
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: is really cool and a testament to the to the
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: the brilliance of the filmmaking and the film itself. I'm
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: gonna ask a really dangerous question, a question that honestly
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: I would typically say for the Patreon, but I will
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: I will ask right here on the main Okay, if
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: at all, what role does this filmmaker's identity play in
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: the reception of the film and should it? Because sometimes
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: we see movies just because they were made by women.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: Like sometimes we're just seeing Barbie because it was made
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: by Greta Gerwig, and that's really cool, you know what
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a blockbuster by a woman. Cinemas, we'll
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: see a movie and we're like I'm only seeing this
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: movie because I know it's made by a queer person,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: and that's really cool. I know the movie is queer,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: and that's cool, nothing wrong with that. We do not
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: have any movies made by trans people period, like the
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Witch House. Everything that is in development with Lily witch
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Houseki has not been made, you know what I mean, Like,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: we don't have trans filmmakers that are that have nationwide
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: releases at this scale, that are working with a kind
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: of budget, even though it's not a huge budget, that
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: are working with a kind of budget that Jane is
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: working with. Right. That's not Jane's fault, right, I do
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: think that, but I couldn't help but feel like there's
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: a scarcity Because of the scarcity of transfilmmakers, again, at
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: no fault of Jane's own, it plays a part in
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: why people CIS or trans show up to Jane's films.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I might see every Jane film until
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: I die, and it's kind of because it's my only
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: opportunity to see a movie by someone who is transgender.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I honestly did not see either of
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Jane's films because she was trans. I saw them because
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: she makes films that are that are very much to
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: my taste.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are, they very rose tom you.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If anything, the fact that she's the sorry, the
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: fact that they're trans, and that trans is that trans
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: is basically the subtext makes me want to see them less.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Like I actually would prefer if Jane in the future
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: leaned more into horror and less into identity.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I gotta agree with you, girl. And I'm a little
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: bit of a post identitarian nutjob, like borderline like anti
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: woke when I say that, sometimes I know how it sounds,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: but I definitely I hear Jane on a press tour
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: being like, well, have you ever you've never seen a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: film at this scale produced by somebody's transgender? Can you
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: name a transgender filmmaker? And they can't, And that's powerful
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: because stories are so powerful. And also like, I think
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: this is more true if I saw The TV Glow
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: than it is of Can't Miasthma, which has a little
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: bit more plot, but I saw the TV Glow really
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: rests on transgender subtext period. If someone walks in that
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: film and then they don't know any trans people, they
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about trans identity, they don't know that
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Jane is trans and they watch it, what are they
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: getting out of it?
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: I don't even know.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: I disagree because I I think that film you can
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: approach from the perspective of nostalgia, because that's so much
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: what it's about. I don't think you need to understand
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: the you know, trans themes to enjoy it. But it
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: would be kind of stupid to watch if you didn't
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: understand that. And I think that's the problem we're talking about.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't want to have to go into
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: a film knowing so much about the filmmaker. I want
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: the agree. I want the art to speak for itself.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: I completely agree. And and and as my final slightly
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: vicious drag the screening that I attended in one of
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: the last things that Jane said in the talkback was,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: you know, as you should say, as an independent filmaker,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: hey go and see this movie again. Bring your film,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: bring bring your friends to go see this film. Tell
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: people to go see this film, like spread the word
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. And also they said they were like
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: when and also when you go and see it, laugh
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: so that other people know when to laugh.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you're the writer, director, you
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: make it funny so people know when to laugh.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: By point, it was so sorry, damning. I was like,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: it has to be funny in order for it to laugh.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: It's not our job to do that.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: Well it was, it was funny, but it was like
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: a woman has to chuckle when a man can.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I think I also trans person has to ha ha.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: But I thought about that when you said that you're
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: the only person in the theater laughing. And I say
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: this as someone who loves Jane. Jane, if you're listening,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: I think you're so cool. It's awesome, and I want
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: you to keep making films. And we only say this
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: loving man.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry for mis gender.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for miss gender. We know that you swapped
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: to them pronouns three years ago, and that's a fucking servit.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: We really hope you're not listening to this and you're
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: definitely not.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: You're definitely I mean they might who knows.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: But but but I say this just because I want
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: to underscore that if these even though these films are
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: not for me, they are for some, they are for
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: so many other people. And and I agree with what
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: you said, Rose. I would love for Jane to make
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: a film that people enjoy.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Well, on that horrible note, let's end this episode. Make
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: sure that you subscribe to our Patreon for twice monthly
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: bonus episodes. Pre Order the paperback edition of my novel
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Best Woman, Come to Doll Invasion and to Doll Invasion,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: do all the things. We love you, and we'll speak
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: to you next week.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: Bye.