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A constitutional right, or a constitutional wrong? | HBR Talk 411 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to HBr Talk for one one a
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: constitutional right or a constitutional wrong. I'm your host Hannah
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Wallen here with nonsense annihilator Lauren Brooks hopefully yes, Hello, Hello,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and the personification of perceptivity. Mike Stevenson Kills.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: You are a bunch of other chink chunks outday Kings,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello, Richard the Lionhearted.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Hello.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Of course, of course we have the doze in charge
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: working in the background to make things happen, and hopefully
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a stable internet connection tonight. My connection was being a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: little cunt right before the show, so don't worry. We're
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: not monetized, so they can't do monetize this because we're
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: already not monetized. So I can say and I can't
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: understand your accent. So we have a couple of before
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: we get into anything else, I will say, we have
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of super super chows that I'm going to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: read off. One of them is a response to me
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: that I think came through after the show ended last week,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and then the other one is to Alison. I think
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: so for official reverse traditionalism channel, said a response to Hannah,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I think homemaking homemaking can be easier. It's just that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a stay at home parent, including one who works part time,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: is better for the kids. And I think it can
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: still be affordable by moving rural. My parents did it
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety, way past the nineteen fifties prime for
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a stay at home moms. But any argument or stay
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: at home mom should not be about mom being entitled
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to anything. Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I think that unless you are actively homeschooling your kids,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you can do everything else that stay at home moms
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: do and still work. And if you aren't going to
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: work outside the home, and you are doing all of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that and you have the extra time, you should do
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: something in the home, run a home business to contribute
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: to your husband's income so that he is not carrying
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: all the weight himself, even if all you're doing is
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: putting away money for a rainy day so that you
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: have something saved up just in case, right, a cushion.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: It's just not I don't think it's ethical to live
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: with someone and do significantly less work than they do
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and live off of their income, just when you're a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: capable adult. And it's not that I'm not counting childcare.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It's that childcare is not that hard, especially once the
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: kids get to be school age. And even if, like
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I said, if you're not homeschooling, you know you're dealing
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: with several hours a day that you don't have kids
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: at home for three quarters of the year. And if
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: you are homeschooling, you're still not spending as much time
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: teaching your kids as the teachers at school would be doing,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: because you're teaching them things they need to know, valuable information,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: and not that there are seventy two genders and they
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: might not be born in the right body and they
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: probably don't understand, and they should let you brainwash them
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: some more. Right So, either way, you're in a situation
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: where you can earn money as a mom, and you should.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, in a family where there are
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: no kids, it's even more important that the husband doesn't
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: have to carry all the weight. It's just ridiculous the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: idea that suddenly from the nineteen fifties on that we
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: have this forever tradition that men work and women don't,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: because that's not the way it was throughout history. We
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: were teams, and we were teams of men and women
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: that made a household together, and they would cling together
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: against the rest of the world in order to have
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: a life. So there you go, there's a fodder for
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the misogyny alarm dark. Kiki Mora gave us five dollars
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and says, oh, I know this one. Allison got part
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: way there with it's not a slippery slope if it
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: has no breaks. The full rebuttal is it's not a
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: slippery slope fallacy to them, like George Constanza, it's not
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: a lie if you believe it. So that's actually true.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: It's not a lie if you believe it. It can
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: be you can be wrong and not be lying if
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you believe something is true that is not true. But yeah,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it's still it's still wrong though.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: I believed that until the COVID thing came along, and
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: then I heard people knowingly lying, but like without even
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: acknowledging that they're lying.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't believe it though. That's the thing, even you.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Don't know anymore, That's what I mean.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, like, how do you know if someone's deliberately
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: lying if.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: But it's not true that they're deliberately lying. See, that's the.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Thing, you know what I mean?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You might not know if somebody are lying or not.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: That that's it's fair to say that you might not
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: know if somebody is lying or not. You know whether
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: they're lying or whether they're mistaken, but you will know.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: It is a lie to repeat an untruth.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Whether you believe it or not. Literally exactly what. You
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to take the mentre out of lying. You
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: don't want to take that out of lying, because it
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: is a deliberate act. Right if you know something is
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: not true, or if you say something like that you
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: know something is true when you don't know whether it's
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: true or not, those are both lies. If you say
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: something you know is not true, or if you claim
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: to know something that you actually don't you know and
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and you know you don't know, like people who people
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: who believe in God are going to find out after
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: we die that whether whether we were right or wrong,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: you know. But if you'd been there and seen clear
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: evidence of no God, and then you came back and said, well,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I believe in God and I know for sure, or
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: if I were to say I've seen clear evidence, I've
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: been there and I've seen clear evidence when I didn't,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: both of those would be lies, right. But billions of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: people believe in things. They have faith in things that
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: you know, if we're wrong, we won't know until after
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: we die. Well, they're not lying, they do believe those things.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So if you claim to believe something that you do believe,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that's not lying, even if the thing that you believe
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: is false. And if you claim to believe something you
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: don't believe, that is lying, even if you're a really
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: good actor and everybody thinks that you really do believe that.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So the most you can do is say you do
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: or don't know whether that somebody's telling the truth or lying,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: whether somebody is mistaken or malicious. And it is difficult
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: to sort out sometimes, but one clue as to whether
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: or not somebody is lying as opposed to just wrong
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: about something when they're saying something that isn't true is
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: when you ask them about it later and they decline
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: to answer on the grounds that they might incriminate themselves,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that pretty well indicates that they were lying. They knew
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the whole time.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I get that reference.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, The Nazis idea of logical consistency was the fact
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: that you the fact first you come for was in
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: fact first you come for the socialists, et cetera, and
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: they put it into practice. Also, I have no idea
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: how you would be able to accuse someone of a
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Mott Bailey fallacy without yourself committing a slippery slope fallacy. Okay,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you don't understand what mott Bailey is, I'm gonna slippery
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: slope is the idea that if you accept an innocent premise,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: that it's inevitable that a bad thing will happen. For instance,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: if we don't put men in jail for dating each
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: other instead of dating women, they're going to molest children.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: That belief is a slippery slope fallacy. Right, child molesters
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: are mostly straight, they come in both sexes, and there
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: are more. There. There's a really good clue as to
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: which kids need the most help to avoid growing up
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to be child molesters. Right, the ones that have been molested.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And yeah, you have a chance, as a normal kid
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: of growing up to be a child moluster very tiny.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: And you have a slightly less tiny chance if you
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: get molested. You also have a slightly less tiny chance
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: of becoming what's known as a poly victim, which means
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: that you you get victimized over and over again until
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you learn to set boundaries and enforce them. And so
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: some kids go one direction, some kids go the other
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: direction if they don't recover quickly, if they don't get
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the treatment they need, and by quickly, I mean in
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a few years instead of at forty. So this is
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this is the slippery slope fallacy, right, This will if
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you allow one one innocent thing to happen, this other
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: guilty thing will happen. Mott Bailey is the person arguing
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the indefensible position. But every time you attack the individual position,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: they flip to a defensible position. It doesn't make the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: individual indivisible indefensible position. Sorry, and my tongue's not awake yet,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and the indefensible position defensible, and it doesn't make it
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: inevitable either. So, for instance, an individual might take the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Bailey of pedophilia being a sexuality just like all these
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: other sexualities, and the idea that children can consent, and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you know, so on, and that'll be their their bailey,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: their their indefensible position. But every time you attack the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: idea that no children cannot consent, every time you attack
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the idea that children can consent, every time you attack
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the idea that it's just a sexuality, just a physical attraction.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: They slip over to what have you got against affection?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: What have you got against consent? What have you got
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: against sexuality? When in fact, the thing that they're arguing
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: is that it's okay to molest children, which it is not.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: And it's not that if you agree affection is okay
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and you agree consent is important, right, and so on,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that that makes those other things inevitable. It's that they're
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: hiding an argument that they are making behind another argument.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: They're straw manning their own argument as something nicer than
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it is. And the reason these are two different things
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: is that inevitability argument. Right. The Slippery Slope says you
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: can't accept the innocent thing because if you accept the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: innocent thing, you have to accept the next thing down
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and the next thing down. There's no line that you
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: can draw, and Mott Bailey has a line. They just
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: try to pretend that the things on either side of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it are identical when they're not.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: So.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: In other words, the lie in Slippery Slope is that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: there are no breaks, all right. The lie in Mott
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Bailey is that there is no difference. So does that
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: make sense?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Good, okay?
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: So now we have that the the slippery slope is
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: inevitable if it's built on lies.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Lies are all slippery. They have to be slippery.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: It'll it'll slip down into the slippery slope that it
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: can slip too, and stuff like that, and it do.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Meredith g was five dollars and said, HBr talk four
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: one one, Honey for the badgers. That's for giving us
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the four one one for all the important stuff. And
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: h Richard Berre gave us five dollars and said, HBr
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Talk four one one, HBr Information and Directory Assistance Service. Also,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: please read out the late super child from last week
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that I do directed toward Lauren. Okay, I don't know
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: if I can. I it was a super cow.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's what day or what date was last week.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: This is the thirteenth, so what it's like the sixth
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of scrolling to do here, guys,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: to find that one. I think maybe.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Should we be filling into dead air while you're doing that?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: How about them down?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I think maybe I found it. Oh no, that doesn't
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: say Lauren, could you do the video with the lady
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in the purple blouse?
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Too.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's over a minute long, taken from the same round
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: table discussion. Okay, there we go. Found it. Okay, Lauren,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: there was the seven thirty seven that was lost track
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: of for thirteen years while parked at an airport. Oh
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: my god, do you know how many people responsible for
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: paperwork it takes a loose track of a seven thirty
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: seven at an airport. This isn't the ten millimeter socket
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that goes missing his off socks disappear in the dryer.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: This was parked a parked seven thirty seven. Guys, this
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: is a jet. He is talking about a jet that's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: set in one spot for thirteen years, that nobody knew
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: who to build parking fees to, and the owner not
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: realizing that they still owed or owned it. And yes,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it's sat in one spot for thirteen years. Same people
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: also try to sell and administer health insurance.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Good grief.
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: I totally believe it. I mean, if you see some
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: of the people, because it sounds like to me, what
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: it sounds like is a it's a paperwork error, right,
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: So it sounds like it was sitting in some kind
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: of parking lot where they grow all the decommissioned planes
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: or whatever. For some stupid reasons. Someone wasn't paying attention,
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: and you know, numbers get transposed, you know, things like
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: that happen. So you know, I'm not gonna completely take
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: a crap on these people, but Jesus Christ thirteen years
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: thirteen years, I yell at my people if they leave
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: their paperwork open for more than thirty fucking days, because
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: what are you doing? You're just not paying attention, right,
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: But you know, obviously the trail of paperwork is not,
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: you know, incentivized to be looked after in a way
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: that maybe it should be. I don't know, I don't know.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: That's that's really insane to me.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking about this from a totally different standpoint
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: because you mentioned healthcare. Now, my paperwork is not allowed
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: to be a day twenty four hours out of date.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It is not allowed to be one work shift out
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of date. If I leave and I haven't done all
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: of my documentation, I get in trouble. I have to
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: turn everything in at the end of the day, and
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to stay a long time after my shift.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to make room during the shift while I'm
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: taking care of a person that needs a consistent attention,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: like I can't leave the room that this person is
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: in and do documentation. And it's funny like as a DSP,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: if we spend money on the person's behalf, we have
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to document that. If we drive on the person's behalf,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: we have to document that. We have to document Like
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: if the person is on any kind of has any
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: kind of special dietary needs, we have to document that
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: we met those needs. And any medical orders, we have
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to document how we followed them. Special goals that they
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: have for changes in the way they're doing things, or
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: for things that they want in their lives, things they
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: want to happen, you know, anything like we have to
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: document that. So I have usually about thirty to thirty
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: minutes to an hour's worth of documentation throughout the day.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: That that's every day in an eight hour shift, so
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: one in one in eight right of my hours. It
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: needs to be set aside for potential documentation needs. When
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you work in healthcare and you have a patient and
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that patient is under your care, like if you work
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: in a hospital, if you work in a nursing home,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: if you're a direct support professional, if you're home health
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: care aid. If that person poops, you have to document
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it because if they don't poop for two or three days,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that's a health condition and something has to be be
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: done to assist when medication has to be given, things
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like that. That's every person that is under care. And
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: so it's funny. It's funnier to me probably than it
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: is to Laura. And because I'm sitting here thinking paperwork
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: not being turned in or done or nobody reading it
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: for thirteen years, and just mentally picturing some guy sitting
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: in the living room with a pile of documentation next
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to him, going, yeah, these people have been here and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: taking care of this guy for thirteen years and the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: entire company had no idea like that would be insane,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: thirteen years of Medicaid building down the drain because I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: think you have a deadline and if you don't meet it,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: you don't get paid. Yeah. Yeah, and the penalties for
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: not having that documentation are not fun. So yeah, it's
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: it's it's a thing, it's a whole thing. But but yeah,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Meredith gave us another five dollars uh and said HBr
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: talked for four to one one Honey from the Badgers,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: thanks for all four one one on all of the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: important issues. So there we go. That's all over our
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: early superchows. And yes, folks, if you've ever been in
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the hospital and you have spent you know, you've been
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: admitted and you've spent a night in a hospital room
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: if you pooped, somebody had to write that down just
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: so you know. Uh, at least they don't have to
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: clean the litter box. But there we go. So, but
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: all of that out of the way before we get
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to the article, let's do what we gotta do. As always,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Honey Badger Radio dishes out is morgas board of thought
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: provoking discussions, not all of which are about documenting poop.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: The provoked thoughts are fighting back, as experiences both recent
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and long pass have demonstrated they are pissed. They've made
• 22:14
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• 22:17
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• 22:20
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• 22:22
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• 22:26
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• 22:29
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• 22:31
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• 22:34
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• 22:36
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• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Badger dot com slash just the tip. And as always,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the same risk applies to our social media platforms, which
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: is why you should further provoke the thought police by
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: tracking our thought provoking discussions on Honeybadger Brigade dot com,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: where you can find your way to all of our
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: content as well as a link to feed the Badger
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: dot com in the dropdown menu at the top of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the page. And there you have it. So definitely definitely
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: check us out on Honeybadger Brigade dot com. Definitely check
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: us out on feed the Badger dot com. And you know, see,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: if you want to become a part of our community
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of badgers, you can help us to badger everyone else
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: because we do on on a variety of subjects. So
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: last week we were talking about the medical assistance in
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: dyeing origin story. For lack of a better term, we
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: went over this couple of paragraphs here and where we learned,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: as it states in this area here that originally, once
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the case was heard, but I believe the Canadian Supreme
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Court the ruling that they gave emphasized the preservation of life,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and it really limited the role of medical assistance in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: dying to circumstances where someone was dying from an illness
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: that was going to make their death awful, and medical
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: assistance in dying could alleviate their suffering during that death
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: so that they would not go through the worst part
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of the illness that they had that could not be cured. Right.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But what happened, what came out of it this rhetoric
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and this is this is kind of where we left
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: off last time. And there are different citations and citations
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: in here, and I looked at some of them, different
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: articles about this in different research papers or what the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: writers referring to here. So gained and Group twenty twenty
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: two explain this despite the cases limitations, even though the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: court said this is very limited. We're only going to
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: do this with people who are dying in a horrible way.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: We want it to be more peaceful for them and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: less painful for them, no more suffering. We're not just
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: going to start killing people willie nilly, right. Despite the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: CAS's limitations, advocates for broad legalization. You must legalize broads, everybody,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: it's been it's the current year. Come on, advocates for
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: broad legalization, advisory committees in which the latter often received
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: influential positions, and health professional organizations. So doctors were advocating
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: for this media commentators, they all quickly embraced a rhetoric
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: of a constitutional right to medical assistance and dying focused
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: largely on access and expansion. So instead of saying, okay,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: we want to make sure that if people are going
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: to suffer during their death, then we can give them
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: a more peaceful, comfortable death, now it's well, we want
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: people to have the right to use the medical profession
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to commit suicide under whatever circumstances. And of course this
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: is all open to interpretation, right. The Quebec Truncheon judgment
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: mentioned by Pullman, which declared the safeguard of the restriction
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to end of life unconstitutional, was a trial court decision
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: that was not binding on higher courts, so it wasn't
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court and outside Quebec. Yet the federal government
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: invoked the decision disingenuously, claiming its hands were tied to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: push for the expansion of made including for mental illness.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: So there are things that are really hard to live
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: with in various mental health conditions, imagine for a second
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: if at the drop of a hat, you would become
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: explosively angry and you didn't have control over how you felt,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and it was a lot of work, like a lot
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: of work to control how you responded to how you felt.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: And I basically just described roid rage. But there is
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: an illness. There's also a mental health condition that you
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: don't have to be on steroids to experience the causes that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: And it's very difficult for an individual that has that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to not hurt the people around them in some way
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: or another. Like you can hurt people with violence, but
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: you can also hurt people with words, and in particular,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're suffering from that type of illness,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you can dig up, you know, thirty year old dead
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: bodies from arguments and hurts from the past, things that
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: should be water under the bridge, and shove them down
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: somebody's throat in the moment, over and over again until
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: they can't stand to be around you. And of course
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: later on you're going to feel like shit that you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: did that, because that's not who you are, except in
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the moment it was. And every time that happens, your
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: regret builds, and every time your regret builds, you want
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: more and more to figure out a way to not
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: do that anymore. Kind of like if you were a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: werewolf and you knew that every time the moon was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: full you were inevitably going to kill another human being,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you might start thinking about suicide, and you might even
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: think about that before you think about, Hey, is there
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a treatment for this? Is there a cure for this?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Is there a tool I can use to not do that?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Because in the moment, you're shortsighted, you're desperate, you're very
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: upset and often not thinking straight. And that happens with
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: not just mood disorders. But imagine for a minute, if
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you were unable to trust the input you get from
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: your senses when you see something, it might not be real.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: When you hear something, it might not be what somebody said,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: or it might not be a sound that was real.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: It might not actually be there. You might have the
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: flavors of your food messed up. It might taste poisonous
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to you, but it's not. Anything in your senses can
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: get mixed up with a schizophrenic disorder or the variety
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of disorders that are similar. If something isn't correct in
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: your brain and it's not allowing the information to flow correctly.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: You get bad information. It's not real. If you go
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: your whole life having to deal with that, and maybe
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: medication doesn't work, maybe the people around you don't understand.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: You can become suicie idol from that. One of my
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: gaming buddies in college got his diagnosis when he was
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: in high school, and his parents were of some sect
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that believed that they could pray it away, and so
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: they took away his medication. He had gotten on medication
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: when he went to college and he was doing better.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: They took away his medication and the mixed up sensations
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: came back. The false information started coming in again, and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: he could not trust his senses anymore and he couldn't
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: take it, which I can't blame him for, and he
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: hanged himself. And that's rough enough. You lose somebody that way,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and it's hard to explain, you know, when you couldn't
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: even be there because it happened during a break and
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: everybody was at home. There's just a helplessness, right, But
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: imagine finding out that your family member or your friend
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: went to a physician for help and the physician talked
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: them into killing themselves. Medical assistance and dying for mental
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: illness is like, in some ways, offering heroin to cure
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: drug addiction. It's exactly counterintuitive, and that's what they were
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: pushing for the expansion for Let's take these vulnerable people
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: with conditions that can make them suicidal and just offer
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to kill them instead of offering to help them. So
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the federal government decided not to appeal that decision. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: here here's where it says. So it's announced in the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: middle of an election. The government subsequently fails to consult
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: with any of the groups of people that are going
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: to be impacted if modern medicine decides that medical assistance
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and dying can become a substitution for therapeutic care disabled persons,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: indigenous communities, others, particularly affected elderly people for instance, explicitly
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: intended as beneficiaries people who this would be used on.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: They invoked court imposed urgency, meaning you have to immediately
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: stop keeping people who are dying from having an easier
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: way to die, and then they pushed through a new
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: law in the midst of the pandemic, which pretty convenient
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: there because people couldn't go protest against it. You couldn't
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: have a room full of people debating it because they
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: had all these measures in place. Right, everybody was at home,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: everybody had to wear masks, everybody had to stay indoors.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You couldn't have a large gathering of people. Meanwhile, here
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: we have all of the disability organizations, various indigenous organizations
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: and individual international human rights rapertoires and experts were objecting
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: to it. So of course the government decided to adopt
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: that ended up including made for the sole reason of
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: mental illness. Wow, so that's Canada has that.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to do that. I've been here as well.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: It's uh.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: And the close the Clasic wal camps as well.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Credical community go ahead, Richard, the course and trying to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: The government are trying to close the costs because it's
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: such a care. They sails too expensive to have. So
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: the kind like say centers comes and a lot of other.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Stuff are they talking about. And they're talking about using
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: made as a substitute, using medical assistance and assistance and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: dying as a substitute.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: So the same they want to they want to pass
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: to you when they should built very badly.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Essentially, they are talking about the going going the route
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: that the Nazis went before the uh the Holocaust of
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: the Jews. They started. The first people that the Nazis killed,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the very first deaths were elderly people who were deemed senile,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: people with intellectual disabilities, who were deemed feeble minded, and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: people who had mental health conditions. This was where they started.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Because last year I did the project about people's blend
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: disabilities and the Nazi came up, came up, but they
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: said they don't put that into project.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: They ended the project.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: No, they said, don't put that in the project.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Don't put that in the project. So they basically said
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you couldn't talk about it. Basically, Yeah, was the project
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: for displaying to other people with intellectual disabilities.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: It wass going in schools and talking about the history
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: about people of lenus police because we've been having trouble
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: on buses, school kids picking up people iciplie on buses.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: So kids, school kids are the people who need to
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: hear that the most. They need to hear the most
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that that it started, that the Holocaust started with killing
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the disabled and the elderly and the mentally ill. They're
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the ones that need that information because they're the ones
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: that are going on into the future to make these
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: kind of decisions, and if there's a goal of preventing
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that from ever happening again, then they need to understand
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: that when your government is trying to start that that's
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: where they're headed.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Because with the press, they've been attacking disabled people for
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: the past yell too, because they think we we cause
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: the economic crash, so they think like benefits are very
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: generous to disabled people when they're not, as they've been
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: attacking disabled people for the past years.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: You know, it's politicians that cause economic crashes. Civilians do
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: not cause economic crashes. It is always politicians who cause
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: that problem. Politicians and bankers and uh bankers wouldn't be
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: able to do it without politicians.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: They've they've been a lot of attacks on people, filities,
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: disable people. They've been the public very hospital towards us.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: I've had a pass here, So when they see a
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: person and it will check out, they think that the
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: person in the Biel chair take him.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more people need to stand up and point out
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: that that is not the truth that you know, there
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: are people who can't get out of their wheelchairs. You know.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: It's really what really gets me is there there's more
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: conditions that cause you to need a wheelchair without completely
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: taking away the use of your legs than there are
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: that cause you to use a wheelchair because you have
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: no use of your legs. Most people who can't spend
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: very much time sitting up or standing up use a wheelchair.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: They don't use a walker, they don't sit in an
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: different type of chair, because you can get around in
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a wheelchair. And you know, very many there's different ways
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: that a person with different conditions, different pain conditions. Like
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: my mom, for instance, when I was taking care of
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: her when she was still alive, sometimes she could walk
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: without a cane, but not always. Sometimes she could walk
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: from a farther away parking spot to get into a building,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: but not always because of the type of connective tissue
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: disorder we have. When it gets cold out, it's harder
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to walk when you're outside. And then the other thing
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: is you might be able to walk twenty or thirty feet,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: but then that's only if she's going to be able
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: to sit down at the end of that. And so
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: it was in the grocery store one day, and it
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: was after she had had some pretty bad injuries, some
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: changes to her back, some changes to her hips and
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: her knees, and she had to give up the exercise
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: routine she'd been doing forever, and the one that the
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: doctor said, you know you can do this, but don't
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: do those things anymore wasn't keeping her weight down. So
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: she had gained weight. And we get into the store
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: and she gets onto one of those carts that you
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: wheel you drive around instead of walking behind it, and
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: a lady got mad because she couldn't get her shopping
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: cart around Mom and went off about fat people using
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the carts because they're too lazy to walk. My mom,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: when she stood up at that point in her life,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: could not stand up straight. She stood up with her
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: upper body bent forward and to the left because her
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: back was so screwed up that it was permanently. It
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: was like having scoliosis, except it was caused by herniated disks,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and she was in a profound level of pain. But
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: this lady didn't know that. She didn't know anything about her.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: She didn't know my mom. So she said that because
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: she was frustrated. And it took everything for me to
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: not cause a conflict in the grocery store, which would
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: have upset my mom if I had done it, But
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: you know that lady didn't deserve any more of our attention.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: But then the reality is that people with disabilities face
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that every day. They get treated like they're in the way,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: They get treated like they make other people uncomfortable. If
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: an individual doesn't have an easy time understanding what you're
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: trying to tell them, or you have a difficult time
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: understanding what they're trying to tell you, you know a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: lot of people just won't talk to them. Or I
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: do that every day.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried to put in on a an A
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: A an AAC machine, but they said.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Is that like what we call a talker here in
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the US where you can type it? And yeah, see
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: what this is the type of thing that it's kind
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: of routine for people to get, especially if they have
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: not just an accent. But you know, some people with
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: intellectual disabilities, it's not all cerebral. Sometimes sometimes it's in
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: you know, it's there are things like people have had strokes,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: even you know, at young ages, parts of the brain
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that don't form, and it's not always just one part
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: or another. Oxygen deprivation during birth can cause all kinds
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: of injuries.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: People forget that I'm this intention of my brain as well.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: So my language skills are very bad yep.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: And and it sometimes can make it hard to find
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: the right words. Yeah, I'm sure you probably have.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: I had to deal with that on Saturday when I
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: was at my custom's birthday party. People commitally didn't understand
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: that understanding that much.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: And it makes it very difficult to get any kind
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of social contact, doesn't.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: It pretty much? I mostly stuff will isolate, but it's
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: like get tired of begging around of people that don't understanding.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Side to self isolate.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Takes a lot of energy when you're trying to communicate
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: with people and it's one sided. And this is something
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: that Yeah, everybody that's autistic knows exactly what we're talking about,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: because that happens more when you're autistic than it does
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: when you're not. And people who have any kind of
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: speech impediment, like I, because I have the dental problems
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: that I have, I have to work really hard to
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: sound like this. And if I don't work really hard,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: then I sound like Sid that's loth. Like if I
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: just didn't put any effort into articulating, I found like
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Sid that'sloth And I have a lot of missing teeth
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: and it's gotten bad. And I have, you know, differ
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: from people that I work with. You can have a
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: complete lack of maybe the brain development or the physical
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: development to pronounce certain letters of the alphabet, and so
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you substitute. Right, It becomes very depressing when you have
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to self isolate because you're dealing with fatigue from trying
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: to communicate with people that can't understand the only way
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you're able to communicate. It's almost, but not quite the
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: same as speaking a language that nobody else understands. And
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: when you start offering suicide as an alternative for things
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: like getting a talker or getting speech therapy for a child,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: or providing somebody with a wheelchair or a walker or
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: a cane, and some people use walkers and wheelchairs and knes,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: some people use various combinations. Right, instead of getting those things,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you kill them. You're ending a person who could have
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: a life, and the ethics of that just there is
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: no precedent when you're deliberately ending a life instead of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: choosing to participate in it. We don't have that in
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: our history in any good way, shape or form. That always,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: when it's done in mass always precedes like a genocide
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: or a political mass murder. If you don't want to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: talk about the Holocaust, there are about a dozen other
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: political mass murders, or religious mass murders or racial mass
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: murders that have taken place around the world that we
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: could easily relate to. And it's the same thing every time.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: They start with the elderly, the mentally ill, the mentally handicapped,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: anybody that has become more difficult to help, and they
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: treat it like they're a relieving society of a burden.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: They criminalize them and the next thing, you know, then
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: you have this happening. In this instance, they're trying to
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: make it sound voluntary.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: That's why they they want to get because the government
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: and you can want the capital to say good people first,
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: because we don't they assume we don't pay taxes on
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: a de benefit, so they want to get with vastphors
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: and then they out least second.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: And the supid thing is the justification for those taxes is, uh,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: you know, programs to help people like you. So where's
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: that tax money going to go? H Is it going
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to go back to the people or is the government
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: going to continue stealing it? Because yeah, so if they
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: get people all riled up, and they they use a
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: system like this to kill a bunch of human beings,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: it's not going to get them the result that they want.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: So even if they didn't care about the ethics of it,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: even if they didn't care about the human element, even
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: if it was just about their money, it's useless. They're
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: not going to solve the problem.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: And the first public doesn't really care about the second
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: before anyway, because they were the benefit situation. So on benefits,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: we get one hundred and ninety five pounds a week,
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: it's total. That's how much we get to live on. Yeah,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: it's not And the public of mind about that, and
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: that and all the free travel week and all the
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: free beach we supposed to we supposedly get for beings
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: disabled the matter about.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: That, Yeah, And it's not like that. It's they're conflating
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: some things there too. I know the same thing. I
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: hear the same thing.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the benefits that get attributed to
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: the disabled here in the United States are not things
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: that you can get if you're disabled. There are things
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: that you can get if you are a provider parent
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of dependent children, which in order to be the provider
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: parent of dependent children. You have to be able bodied,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: enable minded enough to be a caregiver for a dependent
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and clearly you can't be on on a doul that
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: direction and then also be receiving disability. And in fact
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: there are limited there's limitations on what your total benefits
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: can be and what money you have. So it's it's
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: really getting disability is almost like taking a vow of poverty.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: And it's industries like mine where I work, the companies
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: that do it, Like I work for a nonprofit organization.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: The company receives money to take care of people. Medicaid
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: will pay to take care of people, but a lot
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: of what the company runs on is actually donations from
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the public. The government's not like making these companies rich.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: They're operating on a shoe string budget depending on how
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: much people are willing to share with them and so on.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: So it's it's really people on disability are not getting rich.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: And if a person is able to have an income
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: that doesn't come from the government, if they're able to
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: earn their own money, even if it's not the best
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: job out there, they're going to get more doing that
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: than they are going to get by being disabled, and
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons actually why depression is kind
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: of rampant in the disability population, which makes it that
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: much worse that they're wanting to use medical assistance in
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: dying for disabilities and for mental illnesses, because they're going
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: to get people who again you know, are perfectly able
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: to live, that they're not dying. They're not They might
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: have a condition that is degenerative and eventually going to
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: be terminal, but not next week or next month or
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: even next year, and they'll they'll convince them that they'll
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: feel better if they're dead, and then that's the next
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: thing that will happen. And he goes on here to say.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Commentators have rightly argued that the expanded made law is
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: discriminatory since it deprives disabled persons who are not approaching
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: their natural death from the same protection against premature death
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: that others continue to receive. Facilitating the death of others
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: even when they consent remains criminally prohibited, and others continue
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: to be protected by suicide prevention policies, but even merely procedurally,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: it is hard to think of a more explicit ignoring
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: of nothing about us without us a participatory principle reflected
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: with Disabilities. So, in other words, if they don't have
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: a provision to prevent medical assistance in dying from being
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: used by a person who is not dying actively dying
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: a person who is not suffering from a terminal illness,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that's going to cause them a painful death. If they
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: don't have that provision, and they do have a provision
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that says it can be used to or used as
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: a substitution for therapy in mental health and disability conditions,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: they're going to end up facilitating the death of people
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: with disabilities who are depressed because of the difficulty of
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: economic choices when you're disabled, and dealing with the public
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: when you're disabled, especially in an environment where they're being
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: treated like a drain, when when in fact they're just
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: people trying to live. So this this idea of an
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: unrestricted constitutional right to made in my opinion, like this
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: is the reason why I picked that title. If you're
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: there is a constitutional right to life in the United States,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: it is it is in the Preamble to the Constitution
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: that we have the right to life, liberty, and the
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: pursuit of happiness. There isn't anything that says you have
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: a right to the pursuit of death. There's nothing that
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: says somebody else has the right to assist you in
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: pursuing death instead of trying to help you live. And
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: so I do think this is a constitutional wrong. The
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: idea that they're treating this as a straightforward decision, that
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: a person is in their right mind if they're considering
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: this when they're not faced with a painful death, that
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: you know they're just trying to avoid the painful part,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: when they're just dealing with depression or they're dealing with
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: and I don't say just depression lightly because I know
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: depression can be very profound and it can make you
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: want to die, but it is treatable. The idea that
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: talking someone into dying, or allowing someone to talk themselves
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: into dying when they have a treatable condition, that that's
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: some sort of a right. It's an absolute, on its face,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: active discrimination against people with psychological vulnerabilities. Yeah, I think
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: the only reason that they would want to bring something
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: like this in and target people with disabilities, target in
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: particular because a lot of the disabilities community are men
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: people just assume you must be able bodied if you're
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: a man, if you're not old and you're sitting down,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: you're walking with a cane, or you're in a wheelchair.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: I get I get looks on a cane, and I
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: get looks on as well.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: So women are allowed to be useless. Men aren't. And
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: that's what people think, what people say, and what people
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: act like when they run around, when they get around
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: somebody with a disability.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Because I look look, I look young as well, even
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not for what you want.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: So yep, that's that as well. Yeah, I remember when
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I met you. You really do look a lot younger
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: than you are, but and sound younger too.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: That's that's that's because of the die drops in from Okay,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: it's like you're younger. You tend to act younger than
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: you are, so.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: You know, the combination would make people think that you're
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: younger too. And and the thing is, you know, it's
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not really anybody's business, right. Men don't
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: owe other people and explanation, but quite often they're asked
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: for one anyway. And I have a feeling that this
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: would be you know, this, this would be the government
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: trying to get rid of a set of people and
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: use them as scapegoats. I wonder who they're going to
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: use as scapegoats next though, when they're disabled, are gone,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and they're still spending more money than the people can
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: afford to give them to spend.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: So in the therapy, I'm trying to work on given
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: people and answer about why I use the walkingstick? Oh,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: why I use a walk.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's difficult when people ask questions like that, and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's one thing, you know, if you have a
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: little kid come up and ask questions like they're a
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: little kid, of course they don't know. But when a
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: grown adult comes up and starts pestering you about needing
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: a mobility device, I would call that not just ignorance,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: but bullying, because you know as a grown adult that
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: some people need mobility devices, and those devices do cost money,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: and it's not as easy to move around using one
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: of those if you don't need one, as it is
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to move around without it. It's only easier to move
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: around using one of those if you really need it.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Otherwise it's a complete nutter pain in the ass. So
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: anybody that pesters someone for using a mobility device is
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: automatically an asshole, at least in my opinion, but you
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: still have to be polite to them, especially if you're disabled,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: because if you're disabled, that asshole is probably more capable
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: of handing out out and ass kicking than you are.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: And that's something they know. Mm hmm me too. It's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: it's ridiculous, like people act like that in public and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: they honestly don't think that it matters, and they'll say,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: you know, they'll they'll assume things like the lady that
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: assumed my mom was on a scooter because she was fat,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: didn't know anything about her degenerative disc disease, didn't know
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: that she had such profound pain and couldn't stand up
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: straight and couldn't walk very quickly and if she was
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: on her feet for too long that she would she
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: might collapse, like and none of it had anything to
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: do with her weight. It was all because of the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: ailers Danlow syndrome.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: Why my friend has white rices that every every time
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: you parked in a handicapped spot, people will come up
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: to him and try and challenge him until they he
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: had to lift up his shirt to show to feed into.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like people can't, can't mind their own business. If
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: somebody has a handicapped placard or handicap license plates, and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I'm sure in the UK probably have to have something similar,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Like you can't just get that because you go into
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: the office and say, hey, I have a disability, can
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I have that?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: No, We've got a blue patch scheme which is very
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: rigorous to get. So you have to show them all
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: the evidence that you're cheapeo will send them, and you've
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: got to show refernal as well, and it's like months
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: and months and even years to get a blue patch.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Yep, same here, and you have to uh, if your
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: doctor just hands them out to be people, doesn't doesn't
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: reserve it for just people with specific types of disabilities,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: they'll go after them for it. So you catch them
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: doing that. So you have to have a medical condition
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: that that actually is covered, and you also have to have,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: you know, a doctor willing to to actually give you
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: the documentation that you need. So but but yeah, so
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: this is one of the things that you know, I
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: for me, this is a huge issue. This being pushed
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: in the UK now and there are states in the
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: United States that have it. I'm yeah, Oregon's one, CALIFORNI
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: is another one with that.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: As well.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I think so, but I didn't. I didn't look at
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: d C. I know that right now unless something has
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: changed that I didn't hear about it. Ohio doesn't where
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: I am, but that that didn't I don't think that
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: stopped them during the COVID crisis. But without the stipulation
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: that the medical personnel can't introduce it like they did
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: with that lady in the new story, or we read
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, where where there's not a health
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: condition that they're dying from, like there's a health condition
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: that they can treat and and the person can recover.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Without that stipulation, this could be very dangerous and invoking
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: treatable conditions as acceptable reasons for medical assistance in dying
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: as a as a civil right, it's incredibly stupid unless
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: you're trying to eliminate large swatches of the population. This
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: is where it gets really bad. Oh oh, I see,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: and wow, we gave us a dollar on Rumble, so
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: that the Rumble rant said the progressive subconscious desires to
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: destroy Also hello, But so the writer goes on this
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: emphasis on the right to access and the underappreciation of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: the right to and need for protection is reflected in
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: several aspects of Canada's made regime. It's embedded in the
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: broad enti repretation of key access criteria. But there is more.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: What Pullman frames is an acquiescence and in difference of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: federal and provincial authorities, the courts, and medical associations can
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: be characterized as prioritization of access to maid as a
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: quasi inherent beneficial practice. So, in other words, they're not
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: just saying, all right, we're accepting this idea. They're pushing
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: it as a good thing. Candida's law and policies by
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: federal and provincial authorities and professional bodies predominantly focused on
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: facilitating access to death. They're pushing it. It's not just,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we should allow people this pathway, it's we're
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: going to adopt this pathway. It's a much different outlook.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: So while the Supreme Court had reaffirmed the idea of
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: a regulatory practice of not pushing it essentially of maintaining
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: preservation of life and you know, making it an exemption
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: to criminal law basically when death is inevitable and they
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: simply want to make it less painful, what they're actually
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: doing is suggesting that death should become routine as a means,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: as a substitute for therapy. They're going to treat it
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: like it's a therapy, but it's not. Death isn't therapy
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: because at the end of it, you don't get better,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: You're gone. So one of the things that I found,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: and this is from a couple of years ago. So
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I want to say, somewhere on here I had seen
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: a date. I don't know where it is. It might
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: be here. Nope, but this is at least five years
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: old if I remember right. But in the summary, the
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: first most important sense there there is no provision in
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the law that prohibits healthcare professionals from initiating a discussion
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: about made. So I want to remind you the woman
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: who was offered made instead of treatment for her broken hip,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: for her broken pelvis. That's what happened. The healthcare professional
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: initiated this conversation about made. There was no I feel
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: like I should die from this pain. This is terrible.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: I can't handle it. Somebody give me drugs. You know.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: It was just, oh, well, you have a fractured hip.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: We could just help you commit suicide straight too. And
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: then this one was more than three years ago as well.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: But there it is the proposed delay that's not where
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: it was. Here we go. It is not news that
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: a significant portion of the public struggles with mental illness.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: It is not news that such people often lose hope
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: and perspective, which often leads them to wish for death.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: It is not news at about forty five hundred Canadians
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: in their own lives every year, with probably twenty times
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: that number attempting the same, and with an even greater
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: number who wish for death without taking action. Most of
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: them have some form of mental illness, and it's fair
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: to point out suicidal ideation itself is a mental health symptom.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: So if you experience and express a desire to commit suicide,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: you are displaying a mental health symptom that can be
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: treated and is a call for therapy. So the number
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: of vulnerable persons who might consider psychiatric made is large.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: We've known this. We've known that for many people in need,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: the Canadian health care system, despite its admirable features, fails
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: to cover even basic elements of mental health care, such
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: as psychotherapy and prescription medications, much less adequate disability supports.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Then there are the facts we've gleaned from research on
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: psychiatric made in jurisdictions where it's been legalized. The writer's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: team's studies of Dutch cases of psychiatric MAID has shown
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: that people who request the procedure and people who attempt
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: to die by suicide have very similar clinical profiles. The
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: research demonstrates that women request and receive psychiatric maid at
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: over twice the rate of men, probably because the men
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: that are suicidal are using guns the same ratio of
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: women men's suicide attempts, So this would essentially increase women's
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: success in scare quotes rates at suicide even more than
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: it would increase that of men, and this is what
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: one would expect if a one hundred percent lethal method
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: such as made were used as a means of suicide.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Only five percent to ten percent of requests for psychiatric
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: made are granted in the Netherlands, in large part because
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: the Dutch requirement that made be a last resort a
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: protection missing in Canada. We also know from a Belgian
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: study of one hundred consecutive patients referred for psychiatric made
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: evaluation that the desire for the procedure can be highly
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: unstable even when a psychiatric suffering is deemed chronic, consistent,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: and unbearable without prospective improvement. The majority of requesters changed
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: their minds, eventually managing with regular, occasional, or no therapy.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: I think we're all familiar, and I haven't found the
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: news story, but a while back it went on. It
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: was all over Twitter in x and they were discussing
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: it as a discrimination against women or reporting rape. What
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: happened was this, this rape victim had changed her mind
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: about medical assistance and dying in Canada. I believe it
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: was Canada. No, it was Spain. But she had she
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: had she had been to get assistants and she had
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: had asked for this, and then she changed her mind
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: and they forced her to go through with it because
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: they already had recipients lined up for her organs. So
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: imagine you got a family member who has been in
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: and out of psychiatric hospitals that they have a profound
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: psychiatric disorder that causes them all kinds of communication issues,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: maybe perception issues, something along those lines, and comorbid depression
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: and suicidality, and they start the process and then they
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: change their mind, and you know they change their mind,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: They know they change their mind. The medical team knows
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: they changed their mind, but there's no safeguards for them,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: and they get forced to go through with it. And
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: that's your family member, someone you care about, maybe somebody
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: who's a veteran with PTSD, because suicidality can be comorbid
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: with PTSD, and it can be intermittent, so an individual
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: might be suicidal and then seem to recover, but then
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: become suicidal again later and recover again, and you know,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: it can be a lifelong battle. Unless you know they
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: have happened to live in Canada and the government decides
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: to kill them and take their organs. That's not the
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: one that we were just in there.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Direct physician involvement. Does not explain how Canadian made practice
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: went beyond the he left a he accidentally a word
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: there until recently. Nope, he didn't okay until then, and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: went beyond the until recently most liberal euthanasia regimes in
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: the world. So, in other words, those regimes are no
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: longer the most liberal euthanasia regimes in the world. And
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: this even prior to including made for mental illness, So
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: before including made for mental illness, it was that high.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Now it's gonna go ballistic Roboto one, two, three, four,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: five sixty seven gave us a dollar and said, wait,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: is robal made just a grift to harvest organs in Canada?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Not yet well that we know of, but it could be. Yeah,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: and anywhere that this is introduced, that's a risk, especially
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: without any kind of safeguards to protect people from being
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: coerced into it, pressured into it, presumed to have consented
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: when they couldn't consent, or having the decision made on
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: their behalf. There's at least one story I recall where
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: a mother made that decision on behalf of her child
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: in I want to say the Netherlands, but I may
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: be wrong about that. In seven years, two Canadian provinces,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Quebec and British Columbia, had bypassed the percentage of euthanasia
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: deaths in Belgium and the Netherlands, which legalized euthanasia in
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: two thousand and two, and Quebec seven percent of all
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: deaths are now the result of a health care provider's
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: lethal injection. You know, I was irate when I learned
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: that the third leading cause of death in the United
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: States for at least a few years in a row,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: were medical malpractice where the doctor makes a mistake and
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: somebody dies. This is on purpose. This is doctor's killing
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: people on purpose. Roboto one, two, three, four, five, sixty
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: seven gave us a dollar and said, is it just me?
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: Or as healthcare become far worse with more steps, Yes,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: you're You're right, It's not just you. And so here's
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: where I've got to point some things out. Right. During
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: the COVID crisis, now, my doctor was pretty candid about
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: the pressures he was facing. They drove him to retire,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: and I ended up losing my general practitioner in the
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: middle of my efforts at finding out, you know what
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: exactly was the health condition that was causing the symptoms
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: that ultimately I found out it was the vascular form
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: of Ailer's Danilow syndrome, and I ended up also discovering
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: that I was autistic. But in the middle of that,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: my doctor retired. And a big part of the reason
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: that he retired was because he was under pressure from
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: every direction except the patient. He had the federal government
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: pressuring him in one direction to make decisions in one direction.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: He had the state government pressuring him in another direction.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: He had the pharmacy industry pressuring him in one direction,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry in another. And the distinction there. The
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: pharmacy industry is the retail outlets that sell you pills.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: The pharmaceutical industry is of course the manufacturing and development outlets.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: And they want to give your doctor free samples of
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: all kinds of drugs that he can get you hooked on.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: And so you have the pharmacies wanting prescriptions from the doctor,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: and they want to They make more money on generics,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: and they want to sell you generics, and they want
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: the doctor to only prescribe, you know, broadly, I want
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: you to take the drug penicillin, or I want you
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: to take the drug I can't remember what the generic
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: for prozac is, but the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. There's
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: a The generic starts with an F, and it's a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: really long word. The generic for you know, all all
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: all kinds of drugs. The generic name is very long.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: But they want to be able to substitute a generic
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: for a brand name that the doctor prescribes. Whereas the
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies, a lot of them want the doctor to
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: stick with their brand name, and so they'll give out
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: samples of their brand name drug, and then they'll try
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: to convince the doctor that the you know, certain health
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: conditions will mean that the generic is not going to
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: be as effective for the patient, or the patient might
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: have an allergy you know, or or so so on. Basically,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: you know, fighting with the pharmacies. And then at the
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: same time, the insurance company doesn't want to pay for
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: your drugs, whether you need them or not. You know,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: you could be a desperate need for your heart medication,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: and your insurance company wants your doctor to have to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: jump through fifteen different hoops to get that medication for you.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: And at the same time, the uh, you know, the
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: state wants to pick and choose which medications you're allowed
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: to be prescribed, and they want your doctor to effectively
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: treat your pain without using any effective treatment, So your
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: insurance company won't want to pay for physical therapy. They'll
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: be happy to pay for certain drugs, but if the
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: doctor prescribes them, they'll turn him over to the local
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: district attorney, who will then go through his books and
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: suggests that he's a drug dealer and not a physician.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: And on top of that, then you have the federal
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: government saying, well, yes, we know that this treatment has
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: been proven to work for this particular illness, but the
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: FDA hasn't actually said that that's true. So we're going
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: to fault you and hound you for using it, or
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: we're gonna call it malpractice and we might actually take
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: away your license. Between all of that, your doctor is
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: dealing with so much that, of course the older doctors,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: the old country doctors and stuff, they're going to retire.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: They're gonna get out of the practice. It's so hard
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: to just practice medicine today that that's the only pathway
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: that's left to them. You'll almost have to be a
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: lawyer to be a doctor today. And now the state
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: is going to start pressuring doctors to suggest to their
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: patients that maybe they should just die. Canada's law uniquely
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: fails to require that healthcare providers agree that there are
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: no other options to relieve patients suffering. They must ensure
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: that patients are informed of all options, and for patients
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: not approaching their natural death, that they carefully considered those options.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: For patients not approaching their death, a ninety day assessment
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: period aims in part at exploring options, but there is
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: no duty to ensure that options are made available. So
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: if your insurance company decides they're not going to cover
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: your heart surgery or your cancer treatment, or your mental
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: health medication and therapy, like you considered all those, but
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: it's going to cost you ninety thousand dollars to get
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: that option, you know, to use that option. But maybe
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: you're in insurance company will pay for made so you
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: can die for free, or you can go, you know,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: for the price of a house. You can maybe gamble
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: on survival. Refusing treatment or support options does not prevent
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: patients from getting made So if they decide they're not
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: going to go through chemo and radiation and they're just
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: going to die because the insurance company won't cover it,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: it's going to be expensive, the doctor can just give
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: that to them. So Similarly, if you have somebody that
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: really doesn't understand their options, is there a sipulation. I
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: wonder that the doctor has to ensure that they are
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: able to understand that conversation, because if you have somebody
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: is suffering from senile dementia, early stage Alzheimer's, early stage Parkinson's,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: any degree of confusion that's enough to cause somebody to
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: panic and select the wrong choice and then the ninety
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: day assessment period can be shortened. So let's say your
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: your condition is degenerative, this disease right, and you can
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: you can get your surgery, but you're gonna have to
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: wait a year. There's there's no practitioner willing or able
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: to do your surgery for a whole year. So for
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: a whole year, you're gonna still suffer excruciating pain from
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: pinch nerves in your back, and you're gonna have trouble walking,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna maybe be bent over, maybe have difficulty
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: remaining upright or keeping your balance. You're not going to
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: be able to work as effectively or at all. But
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: if you want disability, you're probably going to have to
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: wait a couple of years for that too. But within
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: less than ninety days, maybe you can. You can get
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: medical assistance in dying. Now, how many people would take
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: that deal, believe it or not, that's pretty close to
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: the deal my mom took. She couldn't stand the idea
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: of waiting, so she gambled and she got COVID. Belgium
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: and Dutch law, in contrast, explicitly require that physicians must
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: agree that there are no other medical options left in practice.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: Some Belgian and Dutch physicians have arguably become also too
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: comfortable providing euthanasia when patients refuse treatments, and persistent treatment
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: refusal can at one point turn euthanasia into the last
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: received option. But it reflects a strong attitudinal difference, affirms
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: the role of health care providers in promoting resilience, and
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: confirms the normal functioning of the medical standard of care.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Richard Biere points out Steve Jobs pursued all kinds of
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: alternative therapies for his cancer. They didn't work, but nobody
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: was pushing euthanasia on him. Sure, he paid for useless
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: snake oil, but at least he made the decision. And yeah,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. It was of his own volition.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: Same with same with Jimpanson as well.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they tried, they tried to live. And we just
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: had a law during the previous Trump administration that was
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: passed called a right to try, and that that is,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: if a therapy is novel and new and not not
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily FDA approved for the whole public, that that therapy
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: maybe isn't available to everybody. But let's say you're in
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: a situation where you've tried everything else, and without it
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: you're not going to survive. You have a legal right
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: to give that a try before giving up on life
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: in the United States, So we're going to the opposite direction.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: Everybody else is working on a right to die, We're
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: still trying to work on a right to live. And
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: I mean this has been a standard here for a
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: long time. When when the Hattie Larlam Foundation was still
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: just and babies in a house, there was a there
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: was a baby with hydrocephalus that was being transported. The
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Hattie Lyrelam Foundation was the first hospital for kids under
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: the age of six who were severely or profoundly handicapped
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: in the United States, and it started out with just
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: a family taking care of babies that were going to
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: be their families couldn't take care of them. It used
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: to be that in some hospitals, if a baby was
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: born with a severe or profound disability, they would just
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: let the baby starve to death. And there wasn't anything
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: they could do to treat the disability. They didn't have
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: the treatment methods, and so they would just let the
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: baby starve to death. And if they didn't do that,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: they sent the baby home with a family that didn't
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: have the tools to take care of them, and the
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: baby often didn't make it more than a few weeks
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: or a few months. So the family had started out
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: taking care of the baby a family of neighbors that
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: was born with hydrocephalus, and this was before the shunt
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: treatment was available, and more and more, more and more
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: children were found. More and more families heard about this,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: and eventually, with the assistance of donors and government grant,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: they built a hospital that housed fifty one hydrosopholic kid
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: died on the way to the hospital and Hattie Larlem
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: decided that that was it. That's this idea of not
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: using this new experimental treatment that was available for hydrocephalus,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: that was stupid. They're going to die if you don't
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: do this treatment. It's one hundred percent chance of death
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: if you don't do this treatment. What could go more
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: wrong than that? And so she said, I won't accept
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: another baby without a shunt, and they started using it
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: and it worked. If you know anybody have ever met anybody,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: I've met two people in my life that I know
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: of that were born hydrocephalic and have a shunt. Because
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: it became standard treatment after that, the right to try.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: The right to try is vital if you're going to
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: die if you don't get that treatment, you have nothing
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: to lose by trying. There is no You're not being
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: protected from anything by being told no. And that philosophy
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: seems to have served America pretty well. And it's it's
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: exactly the opposite of this route here where persistent treatment
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: refusal can can make euthanasia look like the best or
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: only possible option. Canada's made law explicitly emphasizes the right
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: to obtained made when patients themselves consider standard treatments to
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: be intolerable. A mere declaration in patience files that they
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: refused all other treatments basically shields physicians of liability. So
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder how far that goes. I know people that
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: are just deathly afraid of needles. You get a shot,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Like me, If I get a shot, it's not it's
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: not really anything. It's stubbing my toes worse than getting
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: a shot. I had allergy shots for almost twenty years
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: every week, so used to needles. I'm probably as used
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: to needles as a drug addict, right, So I don't
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: understand fear of needles, but I am aware of it,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: and I know that with some people it's so uncanny Valley.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: So he be Gebis gives them the ick so bad
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: that they'll get nauseous and they'll get dizzy'll get light headed,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: they'll feel faint, and they'll pass out. So imagine if
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: somebody is facing chemo which uses a needle, and they're
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: gonna go a couple times a week for this, and
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: it's not a shot. The needle has to stay in
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: your arm. It's intravenous like that would that person might
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: turn around and say I find that to be intolerable,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: and instead of trying to talk them through it, instead
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: of trying to provide accommodations to make it more tolerable,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: the healthcare system could then turn around and say, well,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll give you medical assistance in dying. Oh wait, no, wait,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: that uses a needle too, doesn't it. But at least
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: it's the last one you'll ever have to deal with, right.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: This could be understood as if patients only become eligible
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: when no medical interventions remaine, regardless of treatment refusal, but
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: the requirement of irredeemability appears largely ignored or at least
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: not interpreted. That way. The guidelines accepted by the Canadian
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: Association of MADE Assessors and Providers, an organization funded by
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: the federal government to educate physicians about MADE, Federal Report
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: on MADE for Mental Illness, and recent Health Canada Model
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: Practice Standard all reflect an emphasis on ensuring access to
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: MAID largely on demand. Now, let's let's go back to
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: the discussion the beginning of the show, because this is
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a bit of an I
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: told you so back in the eighties, before there was
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: even a really widespread discussion of socialized medicine in the
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: United States, when the abortion debate was more most people
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: weren't talking about it at all, right, it was more fringe,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: so there wasn't a big if you brought the subject
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: up in polite company, like, there would be people in
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: polite company that didn't know what you just talked about.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: But between the people that did debate it, you right
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: to life first were pointing out if you started devaluing
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: life by bringing in this idea of a constitutional right
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: to kill your baby before it's even born, before it's
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: fully developed, you're going to devalue life and you're going
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: to see people start talking about euthanasia. Oh no, no, no,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: that's a slippery slope argument. Nobody's going to bring up euthanasia.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: It's never going to be talked about. And then by
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: the late eighties euthanasia was on the table, but the
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: idea was just for situations where people might really suffer
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: when they're dying because of whatever illness they've got, that
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: it's going to be extremely painful or it's going to
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: be extremely distressing, like choking to death is drowning is
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: you know, And so we wait until they've had the
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: last time period of life where it's not that bad,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: before they get to the point where it's extremely painful,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: before they get to the point, and let them die
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: with dignity. And that's what they used to call it,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: death with dignity as opposed to I guess death without dignity,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: and everybody debating it, you know, we all still had
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: that deep concern. Without the proper safeguards, this is going
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: to expand it's going to turn into you know, death
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: because you don't get medical treatment, Death because the insurance
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: company doesn't want to pay for your medical treatment, Death
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: because you don't want to deal with the difficulty of
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: your medical treatment, right, death because your caregiver doesn't want
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: to take care of you, and where at that point now,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: and the discussion is becoming death because of medical medical
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: care rationing, how long is it going to be before
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the discussion is death because the government doesn't want you
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: around anymore, going from euthanasia to imposed euthanasia. And it's
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: not a slippery slope if there are no breaks. Alison
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: is right about that. If there's no place where you're crossing,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: you know, where the fact that you're crossing the line
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: is noted and objections are accepted and registered, then it
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: is a slippery slope. Is it inevitable? I guess we'll
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: find out. We have one more, super chow. I think, yeah,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: just the one more. The official reverse Traditionalism channel says,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: gave us thirty dollars and said, oh good grief. Invasion
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: of privacy question for Doc and Lauren. I mean this
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: with no disrespect if you and if you, and you
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: don't have to answer. But it does happen to be
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: the case that Lauren brings more finance? If it? But
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: does it happen to be the case that Lauren brings
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: more finances to your relationship? Given Docs complaining that he
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: was broke all last year because I think you might
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: be interested in identifying as reverse traditionalists. Then saying Isaac
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: Isaac Newton was the first Migtown is not as fun
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: as saying Frank Zappa was the first reverse traditionalist, as
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: this day at home dad, anti feminist, Rin and Stimpy
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: already sorted out our pope for us. I don't know,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: Mike and Lauren, are you guys there? Well, there we go.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with none of you by default, but
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: thank you for the question.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: There we go. Well, if you want a somebody that
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: can identify as a reverse traditionalist, then it's not exactly
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: quite the right way to describe my family either though.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: But I think I've talked about this before. When I
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: married my husband, he was a divorcee paying child support
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: on two kids to his ex wife, and most of
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: his income was taken to support that family, and so
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: support for our family had who come from me. But
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: he wasn't a stay at home dad. He was going
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: to school and working. When we got together. His weeks
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: were sixteen hour days. Every day. He did nothing but eat, sleep, work,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: and go to school. For a few years after we
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: moved in together and we were hoping it would pay off,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: but the school turned out to be a scam, and
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: in fact, that school faced a massive lawsuit on behalf
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: of a different area of medicine than he was going into.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Nurses sued and they actually got their money back, but
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: the courts didn't see fit to do the same thing
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: for people who went from a therapy, so we just
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: had to pay off the loan instead. So for a
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: large portion of our marriage, I have brought more into
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: the household than he did, even when he earned more
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: money than I did, and we do that that was
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: going to be that way. We were both ready for
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: that and comfortable with this is going to be the
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: way we got to handle things, and this is what
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: we're going to do. So I guess in a way
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: that's reverse traditionalist.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 5: So I will say that in response to that question,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 5: there are very many things about our relationship which are
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 5: not traditional, but in very many ways they are. In
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 5: terms of enjoying each other's company and just loving to
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 5: spend time with each other and doing things together, that
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 5: is very much. I don't know if that could even
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 5: be considered traditional in the way in the sense that
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 5: you mean the word traditional. It's a very normal loving relationship,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 5: but there's certain things about us that are not what
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 5: one would consider traditional. That being said, we've been together
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 5: for almost nine years and are still very very happy,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 5: so make of that what you will, but yeah, it's
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 5: and we're not the type of people to conform to
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 5: labels as well. So you know, I don't really care
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: to term myself as a traditional this or a conservative,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 5: that I'm the person that I am.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I like that answer, honestly, what tradition are
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: we looking at? Because if we're talking about modern traditionalist conservatives,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: which I like to call neo tradcons because they're not
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: they're almost like the difference between New Agers and the
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: ancient pagan religions that they imitate. In other words, they
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: practice something almost to rip off Douglas Adams, almost but
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: not quite entirely, unlike the traditions of humanity throughout history,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: the idea that it's a man's job to make it
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: so that a woman's life has no difficulties at the
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: expense of his own peace and his own ability to
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: have any rest and relaxation. That's never been a thing
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: throughout history. For any economic area. It's never been like that.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: Married people have always been a team. And it's only
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: been since no fault divorce. And I'm gonna put that
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: in scare quotes, because no fault divorce is really just
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: all his fault divorce according to the way that the
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: courts handle it. But it's only been since that was
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: invented that we have this idea of you know, if
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: mama ain't happy, nobody's happy, and you have to be
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: really careful to make sure she doesn't divorce you, and
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: you have to make sure she doesn't have to do
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: any work and treat everything that she does at home
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: like it's ten times harder than it really is, and
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: so on. It is. It's honestly insulting to both sexes
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: and it really shouldn't be promoted as a realistic lifestyle.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: Most throughout most of human history, women and men have
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: worked together to make their household work. Yeah. I don't
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: know how else to put that except that it's it's abnormal.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: What we what we uh hear from neo trad cons
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: is completely abnormal in terms of human history. You know,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: a thing.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 5: What I find so hard to understand is why so
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 5: many like we talk about relationships and just even different
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 5: societal things but we always reflect to the past as
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 5: if that is the standard that we are supposed to
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: live in. And I'm not saying that there aren't good
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 5: things and good morals and you know, things that we
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 5: shouldn't hold on to. But we live in a completely
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 5: different day and time than those people did back then,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: and so you know, standards change and you kind of
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 5: have to adapt. And that doesn't mean that you stray
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 5: that far away from your core beliefs and your morals.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 5: It just I think it means that you understand that
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 5: so like on a very broad instance, right, Like you know,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 5: it used to be where you got married, got married
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 5: in the church, and then you had babies and blah
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah. Well and that was the key
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 5: to a successful life. Well, some people today they can
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 5: get together, they might not have to get married under
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 5: the eyes of the government. They might have children within
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 5: that union and still go on to have a very
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 5: successful life. It's just different than what the religious uh
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 5: people back then in those days would have. Their standards
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 5: were different, right, But it doesn't mean that you can't
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 5: be happy today with living outside of this normalized standard
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 5: that used to exist very long ago. You know, and
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 5: I think people get caught up in trying to fulfill
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 5: certain standards and then they just end up. They end
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 5: up because you know, you're trying to appease people instead
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 5: of actually trying to find someone who is best suited
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 5: for you, because that's really what matters at the end
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 5: of the day. Right where we don't live in the
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 5: time where you had to send your eight children out
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 5: on the farm so that you could survive, and you
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 5: know you were married under the eyes of God, and
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 5: like that's not that's not how we live our lives today,
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: and so you know this whole crad con stigma. Oh
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 5: you have to be listen, people live their lives in
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 5: many different ways, right, you know, there are so many
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 5: different ways to have relationships, and what you and your
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 5: partner agree to within your union doesn't have to look
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 5: like what everybody else is doing. And I think a
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 5: lot of people get caught up with trying to be
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 5: just like everybody else instead of understanding that, hey, maybe
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 5: some of us are different and your beliefs can be
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 5: your beliefs as long as you don't try to impose
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 5: that on other people who have nothing to do with you,
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 5: who are just trying to live their lives. And I
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 5: think we can find some kind of at least maybe
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 5: not common ground, but you know, we can find some
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 5: sort of mutual existence.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think a big part of it is, you know,
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: the idea that a committed relationship has to have the
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: government involved in it can go by the wayside.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, and with regard to historical divorce agreements
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: versus modern divorce agreements and everything, and like, some people
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: think that no fault divorce made things better, but historically,
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: if your wife cheated on you, she could not then
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: take your children and make the stepfather, the substitute dad,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: deny you visitation and collect child support, live off of
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: your income while essentially aliening alienating your children from you
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: until they're old enough to find out for themselves. If
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: she hasn't succeeded right before that, if she cheated on you,
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: she was at fault for the divorce. She didn't get
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: the house, the car, the half your income, and half
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: the stuff that came with the house. She could just
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: get her happy ass onto the next relationship and leave
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: every everybody behind. Now, if your wife cheats on you,
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: you have to pay her to leave and take your
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: children away from you because it's quote unquote no fault.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: But it's not no fault. It's all his fault. The
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: divorced system now is essentially all his fault.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: Divorce didn't make him bring that in his second term.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: Yes he did. It's one of the biggest mistakes he
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: ever made. If he wasn't doing it on purpose, which
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I can't say that I know one way
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: or the other. And with Reagan, he had whatever reasons
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: he had, but it definitely was to the detriment of
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: the men of America that he did it.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 3: They have on set dimension during the second time.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: That's not known for sure. There's been a lot of rumors,
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: but I've never seen it confirmed. Right, But it wasn't
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: just something he did during his second term. He approved
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: that in California when he was governor, well before his
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: first term as a US president, and before there were
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: even rumors that he might possibly maybe have dementia. He
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: caved to feminists. To pressure from feminist groups. So this
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: is when I say there are left right wing feminists
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: and there are right wing feminists. I'm not kidding. I
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: think that the modern neo tradcon movement, the women of
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: that movement are right wing feminists. They still treat women
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: as perpetual victims of men and masculinity. They still want
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: to police everything about men. They still want women to
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: have advantages over men in the legal system. They're not
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: willing to oppose legislation like the Violence Against Women Act
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: reauthorization acts every two years. They're not willing to demand
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: that we return to a gender neutral domestic violence law
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: or just defederalized domestic violence law altogether. They're not willing
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: to do any of that. They're not willing to push
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: for federal law that recognizes that rape can happen to
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: both sexes, or to defail ptereralize rape law. They're not
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: willing to do any of that. They're not willing to
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: give up the Equal Pay Act. They're not willing to
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: give up any of the laws that feminists have gotten
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: passed on the basis of equality. But they're also not
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: willing to give up any of the amenities of being
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: the weaker sex, the gentler sex. They want to be
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: viewed as the more moral sex, but they don't want
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: to be obligated to be the more moral sex. They
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: want to be able to only fans hoe around until
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: they're forty and then get married and be a traad wife.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: So there are right wing feminists. They do everything left
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: wing feminists do, but instead of doing it in the
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: name of feminism, many of them do it in the
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: name of Jesus, which I consider to be sacrilegious, especially
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: considering most of these things are built around narcissism and
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: the first woman's first sin was narcissism. She wanted to
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: be like God.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: That's started to annoy me as well when people use
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: religious as a religion as an excuse to be bad
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: for the bad behavior.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like religion doesn't bend like that.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: They or they reformed or they found region or they
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 3: got good because of religion or something like that, and
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: they used to it as a grift.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, using it as a grift is a big problem.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: Like I can. I can accept the fact that people
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: can reform, right, but you have to actually do it.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: You have to actually reform. Sometimes that doesn't seem to
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: be the case.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 3: And uh, I don't on again questions.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have to get to understand what the
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: true meaning of reformation is. Right, if you're going to
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: make an agreement with God, it includes the go and
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: send no more part, even though you know you're going
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: to fuck up and do things and look back and say, yeah,
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: that was I probably better ask God to forgive me
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: for that. And I will. The rest of it is,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: I will put all of my effort into not doing
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: that again because it was wrong. And if you didn't
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: recognize it in the approach, and you're only recognizing it
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: in highsight, you should still be able to recognize it
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: in the next approach. And I think people forget that
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: part you're supposed to when you when you uh go
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: through the process of salvation and you're you are promising
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: to follow the teachings of your savior. And if you're
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: not trying to recognize your wrongdoings and the things the
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: clues that, hey, you know, this is a bad idea,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: this is this is I'm being narcissistic here, and being
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: gluttonous here, and being lustful here and being stupid here, whatever,
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: then you might as well not have made the promise
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: in the first place. You might as well consider yourself
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: to have been lying. So it's hard work mentally, you know,
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: and and it is a lifelong effort, But it depends
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: on the individual whether they get that or not. In
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: any case, Like, the main thing that I wanted to
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: get across with that is that there are feminists on
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: both sides of the left right fence. Just because they
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: spread their kind of centrism and their use of feminist
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: terminology like toxic masculinity and patriarchy in God's name doesn't
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: make them any less feminist than any other feminist. They're
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: still feminist, they're still anti male, and they're just essentially blaspheming.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 3: I keep telling people that, I keep pointing people about
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 3: the right ruin on theirs a person's side, but they
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 3: just keep calling inside.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: I've run into a few, a very small few women
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: on both left and right that aren't doing that, but
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: they seem to get rejected by all of the other
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: women on their side of the political fence. In fact,
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: they often get accused of being on the other side
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: of the political fence. And of course then there's Alison
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: who just has completely rejected the political fence and just
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: you know, wherever the most humanitarian and kind place to
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: go is politically, that's where she stands, so which is
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: why she's the leader of the honey Badger Brigade.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 3: My therapist, he was gamboried about me on what I
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 3: do online. I had to say that I hate women
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 3: multiple times, but he's he thinks like they're like women
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 3: to a point.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: He's probably indoctrinated with the feminist propaganda that treats accountability
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: as hatred. This is a difficult thing to deal with
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: with the therapist too. You kind of got to be
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: careful in that situation because.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 3: Well, it's been working. I've been working with him for
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: eight years now. He's sort of understand why I'm coming from.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 3: But since he's been interctrinated in the and the stuff,
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 3: he's like only discuss it with him and then discuss
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: other members of stuff. That's almost glad trouble one time.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do have to be careful with that, especially
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: like the The thing about this industry is it's it's
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: a female dominated industry. Most care workers are women. There
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: are men, but most care workers are women. So and
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: women women aren't very rational about criticism.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 3: And most pay workers are narcissistic as well, and my
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 3: social work is not narcissistic.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: Yeh've ran into that too, and it's it's not fun
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: to deal with for anyone in the whether it's the
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: patients or the other workers. When you have a narcissist,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: they just make life hell for everybody. But old of
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: the them like that in the in the UK, well
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: that sucks. I've worked with some pretty cool people. Most
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: of the people I've worked with have been really great,
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: but it is difficult because you do run into All
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: it takes is one you have a workplace where there's uh,
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: you know, ten or fifteen people in in the scheduling
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: process and everything, and one is a narcissist and that's
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: all it takes to get everybody all riled up.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 3: But special is very low paid, and you have to
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 3: be like a narcissis against the profession, or.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: Or you have to be somebody with like a life mission.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and unsociable house as well.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if you're a night shifter. I did the
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: night shift for a long time and the difficult thing there,
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: you know, is like you can't really schedule anything because
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: you're you're working all night, but then you want to
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: sleep all day. So but anyway, we're about at the
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: end of the show. It's like after nine o'clock, so
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: I should really move us on to the night or
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: the after show, and I don't want to go any
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: further in this article without reading rereading everything thing because
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: of the week that we skipped, because I think there
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: was only there was only a portion of this that
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted to use, and I think we may have
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: covered most of it. The rest was I think this
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: guy had some suggestions that I wanted to find, and
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: I think they're closer to the end. So I'm not
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: going to read any further here.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 3: But.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: Let's see if we have any I didn't see super chats.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't see anything in the YouTube chat either of
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: the YouTube chats, so it looks like no super chats.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: We read all the super chows, all the rumble rants,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: and so thanks everybody for listening. Thanks to all my
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: co hosts for being part of this. Like I said,
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: I know this is a very dry and dismal discussion,
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: but it is important because this is a serious issue.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: If there's if we don't see fail safes, if we
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: don't see protections put into these laws to prevent people
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: with mental health conditions and disabilities from being essentially just
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: killed for being inconvenient, I.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 3: Might not be if this. If this gets through.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: Exactly, we may lose people. Everybody is going to lose
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: people that they care about. You know, this is extremely dangerous.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: And it's not that I am against giving people pain
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: relief if their death is going to be torturous, so
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: that I'm against giving a tool to the system to
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: take people out without offering alternatives, and to take people
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: out because they're convenient and no fail safes to to
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: prevent you know, people who are are temporarily suicidal from
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: ending up not making it because you know, of a
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: momentary lapse.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: And for doctors to be initiating conversations about this that
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: needs to be nipped because if that doesn't stop, you
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: end up in a situation where it's going to become
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: like the first line instead of the last resort. So
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: so we did. We're still going to talk about this
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: one more week before we move on to anything else
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: at least, and you know, like I said, just stick
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: with me on it. Hopefully I'll get people to pressure
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: their governments, their their representatives enough that if they're going
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: to have laws like this in play, that those those
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: safeguards are also in place. Is that just I can't
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 1: even begin to emphasize how important that is enough. And
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: I think everybody needs to contact their their representative and
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: and make it clear that those fail safes do need
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: to be in place. But thanks everybody for listening, and
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: again thanks to my co host for going through this
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: with me, Thanks Brian for working in the background to
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: make sure that we're able to have this discussion, and
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: good night all.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 3: Good night, y'all.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: The advice of counsel I respectfully declines based of my
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: rights under