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From Abandonment to Empowerment: Tonya Shellnutt’s Journey of Overcoming Abuse and Addiction · More Than Medicine

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: So listen up, because the doctor is in.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm delighted today to have as my guest Tanya Shelnut.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Now, I met Tanya just a few months ago and, as I've gotten to know her, I've been fascinated by her life story.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: And in fact, I read a book that Ms Tanya wrote, entitled Wounded and Defined Treating Victim for Victory, and I'm going to tell you, my dear listeners, that book gripped me.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I could not put it down, I had to read it from cover to cover, immediately, and I'm going to recommend that book to you, unabashedly, unashamedly.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I'm recommending the book to you as my listeners, and Tanya will tell you how to get a hold of a copy of it before we're done, but I'm telling you that it was a fascinating read, very encouraging, enlightening.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And so, ms Tanya, welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, dr Jackson.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: And so, ms Tanya, welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, dr Jackson, and thank you so much for having me.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I just really appreciate it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: I want to share a little bit about the purpose for the book and where it all came from and give you a little bit of background about myself.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I am a senior state government relations director, currently for ADF.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: I'm a mom of five and my husband and I have been married for 29 years and extremely, extremely blessed.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: But my life didn't start off like that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: I was abandoned when I was six months old by my birth father.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: He left my mother and I, and she went on to marry a guy who was in law enforcement, and they like to party a lot and drink a lot.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I grew up in Montana, and in Montana there were really genuinely more bars than churches on every corner, and so it was just a way of life in Montana where alcohol was involved in everything.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: And so one particular evening my parents my mom's new husband went on to adopt me and they had gone out one evening when I was five years old and had brought a neighbor boy into our home that they didn't know, that I didn't know, and unfortunately he sexually assaulted me, and that incident I actually ended up blacking out, and it wasn't until I got into fifth grade that the memories of the abuse started coming up, and there was just so many negative behaviors and I actually started drinking alcohol when I was in sixth grade as a result of trying to avoid the pain.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: You know, why did my birth father leave me?
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: What was wrong with me?
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Why did this guy do this to me?
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Where were my parents?
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: All these things were going through my head, and so I was a very, very wounded young lady and didn't really have a lot of supervision growing up, dr Jackson.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I just was able to do whatever I wanted to do whenever I wanted, and so we spent a lot of time drinking alcohol, partying, just putting myself in very comparable positions.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I ended up getting involved with a guy who was much older than me and he was actually physically abusive to me.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I have a scar on my face to this day as a result of that, and so I was just in this very cyclical negative behavior of drinking, trying to numb the pain, all the wounds that were happening in my life, and just going down a very, very negative path, just going down a very, very negative path, and I actually ended up meeting my husband, and I was at the time still drinking very heavily, and he said to me he said you know, do you think that you have a drinking problem?
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: And I said no, I'm good.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: And I was seeing a somewhat of a counselor at the time and I asked her.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I said hey, like this guy thinks I have a drinking problem, I don't really think I do.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: And she was like well, why don't we, you know, take this test?
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: It was like an inventory test.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: And if you answered 10 or more questions yes, it was like an inventory test.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: And if you answered 10 or more questions yes, then you probably had a drinking problem.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I think it was like a 20-question test and I answered yes to all 20 of them.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: So I was like, hmm, maybe I do have a drinking problem.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: You definitely did.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: We administered that test at my office.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: You know exactly.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: So when you answer all of them, you know there's something wrong.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: So my mother and I have always and were always very, very close.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: She was my best friend, you know.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: It was more of a friend relationship that she and I had.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: We would drink together, we would hang out together.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: I didn't really have a parent relationship with my mom, and so when I went to talk to her about what this intake had said, I said well, mom, you know, maybe I should go to the local rehab center and just see what they have to say.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: And I was going into that thinking, you know, maybe I could just be a controlled social drinker, because when I drank, dr Jackson, I would black out and I wouldn't remember what I was doing or what I had done.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: And my friends, when we would go out, they would say Tanya, now, tonight, I don't want you to drink so much, I want you to just not drink, because when I would drink I would get so drunk I wouldn't, I wouldn't remember what I was doing, where I was, and you can imagine the positions that I put myself in, and my friends for that matter.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: And so when I went to the rehab center and they said you know, again, you do a more exhaustive intake.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: And when we were done, they said well, actually we recommend you being inpatient for 28 days.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, wow, okay, maybe I'm more sicker than I thought, and so I would talk to Rich that's my husband now.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: This is what the rehab center said.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I don't really think I should go.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: And he said well, if you want a relationship with me, you need to get sober, cause he had just previously gotten sober, like three years prior, and I actually really liked him.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: So I didn't go to treatment for myself, I went for treatment because I liked him and it was there at treatment.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: It'll actually be 30 years this November, dr Jackson, that I went to treatment, that God got my attention and I wasn't.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't know Jesus, I didn't have a relationship with Jesus.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I had no idea.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: I went, you know, to the Catholic church on Christmas and Easter with my aunt.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about Jesus, and so it was there that my healing journey began, in treatment, that my healing journey began in treatment.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Was it an ostensibly Christian rehab facility or there were just some Christian people there?
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: No, it was not.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: It was not Christian at all.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: And how it worked for me was if anybody is in your audience or you are familiar with the principles of AA in your audience or you are familiar with the principles of AA 12-step program, they do talk about a higher power and they don't specifically say Jesus.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: And so I began to ask questions about that, and specifically to my husband, rich.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: We weren't married at the time, but I was asking him about it and he had recently come to know Jesus and so he was learning about this.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: And so I was like, oh okay, and I also had a friend in Seattle.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: To back up just a little bit I had a friend in Seattle who would talk to me a little bit about Jesus, and when I was with her we would always listen to Sandy Patty in her car, and Sandy Patty will have no idea to this day that her lyrics actually witnessed to me and planted the seed for what was coming, and so that's really kind of how it, how it started.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And then also to back up a little bit to Dr Jackson, to kind of just add a little bit more to the story of the guy that was physically abusive to me, that left that mark on my face.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: He actually prior to me getting help and meeting Rich, we were dating off and on and he had moved back to Seattle Washington and ended up killing himself and he left me a suicide note.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: And in his suicide note he basically said you know, I tried to call you.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: You weren't there.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Never forget me in your dreams.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: And you know, being a 19-year-old and feeling that intense guilt for not being there and not knowing at the time that it wasn't my fault, but I internalized it as my fault and that also fueled the drinking.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: And so when I went into treatment, I just had so much pain and anguish and such a wounded spirit that I had to work through, and so that's how it began for me.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Well, that's amazing.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: That's an amazing story.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Well now, how long after that introduction to spiritual things, introduction to Jesus, before you actually became a born-again believer?
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so August 23rd of 1997, rich and I had gotten married in 95, and we had an 18-month-old and we were actually moving on that day to come to Charlotte, north Carolina.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: His family lives here and we were moving to be closer to his family here and we were moving to be closer to his family and on that day my mother who you know is my best friend, sorry she died in a motorcycle accident.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And the very day our stuff was put on that moving van and you know, my mom was my best friend and I was going to be leaving my sister and my brother, who were my half-sister and brother, at home with my adoptive dad who still drank.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And that was very hard for me to leave them because I felt like I was abandoning them.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: And we were driving out here to North Carolina and my husband said to me he said we're going to go to church when we get there and we're going to start looking for a church.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: And I said okay.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: And so when we got here we visited about five different churches and I was listening to just happened to be listening to a Christian station radio, local station one day and I called them and I said I have a weird question to ask you.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Well, actually I don't even think I told them it was weird, because I thought it was normal.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I said we're looking for a church, do you have any suggestions?
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Was normal.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I said we're looking for a church, do you have any suggestions?
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: And the guy the DJ was like I've never had this question before.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: And he's like well, why don't you come to my church?
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And so he invited us to his church and immediately just felt the spirit move.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: And that night just felt the spirit move.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: And that night we had folks come to visit and you know they don't do that as much anymore, but we had people, you know, come and bring us cookies and invite us to the ladies Bible study.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: And so a couple weeks later Rich and I went forward in and I mean, rich had already given his life, but we went together and accepted Christ and got baptized together.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: How?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: How about that?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Well, tell me about that journey after joining that church In your book.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty fascinating experience, I guess because you'd gone from a Montana non-church life to suddenly being immersed in another subculture, the church culture.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Describe that a little bit for my listeners.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I think that was a fascinating part of your book to me.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: It was amazing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I still get very choked up about it because I'm so passionate about making sure, when new people come into your church, that you extend a warm welcome to them.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what this church did.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: They loved on Rich and I like I had never been loved on in my entire life.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: They invited us to I mean, we were so plugged in.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: We were going to Bible study.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: The ladies invited me to Bible study.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: The ladies invited me to Bible study and I thought it was going to be a bunch of older women just sitting around talking in these and those and those.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: And I actually went and they were talking about their marriages and you know, they just we didn't have a lot.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: And they one year came and set up a Christmas tree for us and gave us gifts and they just loved on us in an incredible way.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: And we're in Sunday school class and I remember very clearly the first book we studied was Nehemiah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: I had no idea where Nehemiah was in the Bible.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't even know how to look it up.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: And so they gave me a Bible and they showed me where to go.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: They didn't laugh at me, they walked me through it and it was just.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: It was such an example of Christ's love, of loving people right where they're at and not making them feel embarrassed because they don't know or you know.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: And I asked a lot of questions.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I wanted to learn, I was hungry.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: The Lord put it in my heart to learn and to want to grow, and so I asked a lot of questions.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: And then, when we moved back to Montana in 2001, we started visiting a church there and the pastor who to this day is an incredible friend of ours and has married our daughter and he's just a wonderful man and he took us in and he mentored us and we began serving in the church.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I began working with women who have gone through many things that I've gone through, and then my husband, rich, and I started teaching married adults and this didn't all just happen.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: You know we're talking about 12, 15 years into our marriage where these things happened, but it was just giving back and trying to give hope to these women and these couples and we just had an incredible mentor and we've been very blessed by that.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you some questions and I want my listeners to hear these, because you spend a lot of time in your book talking about the biblical approach to healing.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: In fact, your title is Treating Victim for Victory, and I want my listeners to hear some of these insights from your lips because, in fact, I told you before we started the program that I think I need about 10 copies of your book just to give to some of the female patients that I have who desperately need the same healing that you've experienced by the grace of God.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So, tanya, how important is it for people who've gone through the same trauma that you've been through just to talk about the issues of their life?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the number one thing.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: When you look at statistics, you know one in three women have been sexually abused, one in four men.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I mean it's astonishing what has happened over the course of really the last three decades, four decades and the reality is that we have to talk about this.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: You know, growing up in an alcoholic home, you were always taught to just shove everything under the rug and you don't talk about it.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: If you don't talk about it, it's not there.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: And that is such a lie.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: And it is a lie that keeps women and men paralyzed from ever growing, because you still have all of this pain and all of these wounds that are just, you know, bubbling up with inside you is that this takes courage to be able to face these issues.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: And I'm not going to tell anybody that it is easy, because it is not easy at all.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: It is very hard, but that is why walking with the Lord is so important to this, because he will help you through it.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I can remember being so angry at God and being like why would a loving God ever allow a young, innocent child to be hurt like this?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: And I struggled with that for a really long time and I can remember very clearly, as if it was yesterday, and my husband said to me my husband, said.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: To me he said Tanya, are you going to continue living?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: hell here on earth, questioning the why?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Or are you going to use this for good?
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: And that's easier said than done, and he said it in a loving way, but it was in a way that was okay.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Are you going to continue to be the victim and live in that victim, or are you going to let God heal you and work through it?
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Because when you're over here in the victim role, you are coming up with every excuse under the sun as to why you don't need to be healed or want to be healed.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: But when you make a decision to say, okay, god and you know, job 13.4, I think, is the address where he says, though he slay me, I will love him that's right and that's how I felt for years.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I was like Lord, what are you doing?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I feel like you're slaying me, but the reality is is that I had to decide whether I was going to be that victim and continue with the excuses and all the negative behavior, or I was going to let God work in me and through me and put some purpose to this pain.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: So, anyway, that's what was a turning point for me.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: How does shame play into all of that, tonya?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: See, I have patients who are too embarrassed and too ashamed to even talk to me about their past, and sometimes I know in advance that they've been sexually abused, or I know that they've been sexually abused, or I know that they've been drug addicts or alcoholics, but the shame keeps them from even talking to me about it or addressing the issue in their life.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, shame is, in my opinion, the enemy's way of keeping you in bondage to the chains.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: You know, shame is it's working through understanding that what happened to me and to many other victims is not your fault.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: It's not your fault, and understanding that if you don't work through it, if you don't talk about it, if you don't, you the lie of well, everyone's going to think you're weird, or you know they're going to think differently about me, or they're going to.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: You know, whatever it is the message that you're being told as to why you don't talk about it, it's just another way of keeping you in bondage, and that's not what God wants for us.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: God says all things need to be brought to light, and when we bring them to light, he cleanses us and he heals us, and so we have to make sure, and this is why it's so important when you know, I talked about how that church treated me.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: When I went to that church for the first time and I had no idea what I was doing.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: They didn't make me feel stupid, they made me feel safe, and for victims, it's all about feeling safe in order to be able to share.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: So if you're, you know, surrounding yourself with people that don't make you feel safe or is an unsafe environment.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: It's going to be harder for you, but that's why it's important to get involved in a church, in a small group or a counselor, where you can feel safe and be able to share about these things and be vulnerable.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: But trust can't be built without vulnerability and authenticity.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: But trust can't be built without vulnerability and authenticity.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And the other thing is to understand that on the cross, jesus bore our sin and our shame.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It's important for all of us to understand that we all have a certain amount of shame associated with our past sin, our past failing, our moral failing.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And Jesus bore that shame on the cross and he took it out of the way, he took it away from us, and all of my listeners, who themselves are paralyzed by shame regarding their past moral failing, should understand that on the cross, jesus bore our sin and our shame and he set us free from that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I would say, too, that this is where it's hard.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: The differentiation for victims is because many victims internalize the act against them as their fault, and that's where you know we have to realize that no, it wasn't your fault.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: This is, you know, something that man did to you.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: But what we have control over is where do we go from here and what do we do with what happened to us.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: And that's where I'm very passionate about making sure that people don't stay enslaved to the shame, because God never designed for us to be enslaved to that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: He wants us to have freedom, and so walking in that freedom is important, and that just is.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: It's making sure we differentiate between what happened to you wasn't your fault, but what you do from here is what matters.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Natanya, we've only got about four minutes.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I want to ask one last question, and then I want you to tell my listeners how they can get a copy of your book.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: What happens when people operate from a fearful and wounded spirit?
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you are living with a fearful and wounded spirit, more often than not you are living to try and control every aspect of your life, every aspect of your life, because you're trying to predict and control the outcome and you're trying to control pain or the lack of pain, and so you'll find these very negative behaviors that come out sideways and you may think I'm good, but the reality is is that when you have unhealed wounds, you are either defined by your wounds or you are defined by Christ, and when your wounds define you, your behaviors are not all that great.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: And now I don't ever want anyone to think that it's easy and just like that you're changed.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: But the reality is is that the more you don't talk about your wounds or you don't seek help for your wounds and you don't allow God to heal you, you'll operate out of that wounded spirit.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: And for me, mine was fear-based and I was so afraid of anybody hurting me that I would come across as you know this strong person.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Don't you dare get close to me.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Or you know I was mean, I was a bully really, actually, because I didn't want anybody to get close to me, and so you just have to learn to identify what are some of those sideways behaviors.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: And you know, I wish we had so much more time, because there's so much more there to unpack about what happens when we're defined by our wounds rather than Christ, but that's for another time.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Well, and there's a lot more in Tanya's book and I encourage my listeners to get a copy of her book entitled Wounded and Defined Treating Victim for Victory, and it's an excellent book.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It's an excellent teaching book and if you know someone who's been wounded or if you've been wounded severely yourself, I highly recommend Ms Tanya Shelnut's book.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Now, ms Tanya, how can folks get a copy of your book?
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go to wwwTanyaShelnutcom, and Shelnut has two T's and two L's, so make sure you put both of those in there.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: You can also get it on Amazon, and I also want to let your listeners know too.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Dr Jackson, within the next month, I'm going to be starting a podcast myself, actually called Beyond Brave Overcoming Addiction and Abuse with Courage and Hope, and so when I get live on that, I'll make sure you have that information and you can share that with them as well, and it's really just about empowering listeners to know that it's okay to talk about these things and to just begin to give them help and hope so that they can live a victorious life.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's awesome.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe we can do a podcast together sometime.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: That would be great.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: How about that?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: All right, You're listening to More Than Medicine.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: My guest today is Tanya Shelnut, and I thank you for listening.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: If you like what you hear, follow, like or share.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Be certain to tell your friends about More Than Medicine.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: We'll be back again next week, and may the Lord bless you real good.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.