Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / Traditional and Self-Publishing 101 with Stephanie Chandler

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Traditional and Self-Publishing 101 with Stephanie Chandler · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:00
  People aren't buying books and bookstores the way they used to be.
• 0:02
  You know, former bookstore owner here.
• 0:04
  I wish they were, but Amazon just announced their closing all their brick and mortar
• 0:08
  bookstores.
• 0:09
  Bookstores are not worse.
• 0:11
  Sales are happening.
• 0:11
  They're happening online.
• 0:13
  So you can reach online buyers with, self publishing.
• 0:20
  One 0 ignition, liftoff.
• 0:25
  Ending small business failure.
• 0:28
  Welcome to the Small Biz Chat podcast with a number 1 small business expert, Melinda
• 0:33
  Emerson.
• 0:34
  Bolinda's goal is to end Small Business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 0:39
  you need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
• 0:42
  Now here's the small biz lady herself.
• 0:46
  Melinda Emerson.
• 0:49
  Hi.
• 0:49
  I'm Melinda Emerson's small biz lady.
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  America's number one small business expert.
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  And I'm so excited to welcome you to another episode of the small biz chat podcast.
• 1:01
  Tonight's show is really a good one.
• 1:03
  Now here on the small business chat podcast, we talk about how to start and grow a successful
• 1:09
  small business.
• 1:10
  My guests have amazing insight to share and they will give you savings advice from multiple
• 1:16
  angles.
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  So now it is time for me to introduce my guests.
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  Stephanie Chandler.
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  She's the author of several books, including the non fiction book publishing plan.
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  And she's also the CEO of the nonfiction authors association, a vibrant community of
• 1:33
  writers, and she's the creator of the nonfiction writer's conference.
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  A live event conducted entirely online since 2010.
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  She is a frequent speaker at business events and on the radio, and she's been featured in
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  entrepreneur business week the writer, writer's digest, and wire magazine.
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  And quiet as is kept.
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  She's also one of my very, very good friends.
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  So, Stephanie, thank you so much for being here tonight on the small business chat podcast.
• 2:00
  Hey, Melinda.
• 2:01
  Always fun to chat with you.
• 2:03
  Alright.
• 2:03
  You gotta tell my audience your origin story.
• 2:08
  Like, how did you become the book whisperer?
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  Like, like, how did you become like, so knowledgeable about the book business.
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  You know, I mean, is a twisty journey path?
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  I'm a Silicon Valley refugee at less than 2003.
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  Opened a bookstore, thought I'd write novels, found out I was a terrible novelist.
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  In the meantime, I was blogging for blogging was a thing.
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  I was advising business people.
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  That's how you and I met kind of in the same circle with small business.
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  And I had all these people coming to me saying, you know, how do I get my book done?
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  Well, I had self published.
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  I've been traditionally published And then I started speaking at writers conferences, and I
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  was looking around going, why isn't anybody talking to those of us who write nonfiction?
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  I mean, there was one conference where I spoke There were 300 attendees.
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  I was the only one there who wrote a business book.
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  And I thought, this is weird.
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  Where are my people?
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  So I started a conference in 2010, the non fiction writers conference had no idea if
• 3:06
  anybody would attend, but they did.
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  And they came back year after year.
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  And then they kept saying, how do we keep in touch when this is over?
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  And that led to starting the non fiction authors association in 2013.
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  So I kind of listened to my audience and have found my path unfolding before me, really.
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  Well, that's really interesting.
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  Say.
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  You you've looked around
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  and said, you know, where where are my people at?
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  I think that's fascinating, but, you know, I think people who convene things learn a a very
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  valuable information.
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  And with that, I wanna ask you, what is the number one question that someone should asked
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  themself before writing a book?
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  I think it's a 2 parter.
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  It's who is my audience and why are they gonna care about this book?
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  And so many new writers miss this point.
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  If you're not thinking about an audience and how your book is gonna benefit them in some way
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  and talking about nonfiction, then you're gonna miss the mark.
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  So it's really important to get clear about your audience.
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  What are their challenges?
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  What are their needs?
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  What are their interests and how do you meet those needs, challenges, and interests?
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  Otherwise, your book is just gonna get lost in the sea because there's so much competition
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  today.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  Or or you're gonna end up with 5000 copies in your garage.
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  That that's that's the other thing that can happen to you.
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  So let's talk about this traditional book deals.
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  Can people still get them?
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  I mean, I know my book is published by Simon Schuster.
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  I've also have a book that was self published, but I, you know, I get people all the time.
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  Well, how and how can I get a deal with with some issues?
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  I said, look.
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  I don't even know how I got my deal.
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  My book has been in print for 11 years.
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  So don't ask me that question because I can't answer it, but you can.
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  So are traditional book deals still attainable for people?
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  They are, but they're certainly harder to get than they used to be.
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  I mean, the number one thing is if you want a traditional book publisher deal, You need to
• 5:05
  have an audience.
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  They want authors that are coming to them with a built in audience that are gonna ensure that
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  books are going to sell.
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  So if you have a large following on social media, a large mailing list, high traffic
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  website, any of those things, large podcast listenership, that makes you appealing to
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  traditional publishers, but you also just can't call up Simon and Shuster and say, hey.
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  Take my book.
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  They will only deal with literary agents.
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  So, Melinda, your your deal was really special because they came to you, and that can happen
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  too as you're building your platform, I mean, I've had countless opportunities come my way
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  over the years.
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  So I think it's good incentive to do the work of marketing and building our presence online.
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  Because it does open up all kinds of opportunities.
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  Alright.
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  So let's talk about the downsides of traditional publishing.
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  I mean, I don't wanna throw up publishing on the bus, so I'm gonna let you tell it.
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  But let's talk about, you know, the rough side of of traditional publishing.
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  Yeah.
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  I have a lot of opinions around this.
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  And, you know, mind you, I am traditionally published multiple books.
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  And I got really turned off by traditional publishing, for several reasons.
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  Number 1, you lose all controls.
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  So if you're a type a control freak like me, that's really hard to give up.
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  I had a publisher call and say, we want you to remove a chapter from the book.
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  We don't care which one.
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  We're trying to cut costs, and I was like, you've gotta be kidding me.
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  They can change your title.
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  They can give you a cover.
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  You don't like, And by the way, they're only gonna pay you about a dollar a book.
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  I mean, the royalties are pitiful.
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  So I think there's a lot of downsides to traditional publishing.
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  And self publishing is easier than it's ever been.
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  It's so accessible.
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  And by the way, people aren't buying books and bookstores the way they used to be.
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  You know, former bookstore owner here, I wish they were, but Amazon just announced they're
• 6:53
  closing all their brick and mortar bookstores.
• 6:55
  Bookstores are not where sales are happening.
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  They're happening online.
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  So you can reach online buyers with, self publishing.
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  Alright.
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  So let's talk about self publishing.
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  I when I hear people talk about it, It's like Amazon Publishing versus Ingram Spark, but what
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  like, I I know you must hear about this constantly.
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  And I don't have any experience with either one.
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  So I don't, you know, I don't have a dog in the fight or an opinion to give, but can you share
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  with me you know, some best practices when you're considering what to do.
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  Yeah.
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  So, I mean, true self publishing means that you establish a publishing company.
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  You register it as a business or create a DBA under your existing business.
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  It involves registering BN numbers, the little number that goes on the back of the book.
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  It's involves hiring multiple editors, your typesetter, your ebook format, or your cover
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  designer, perhaps an indexer.
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  There's a lot more to to publishing a book than people realize.
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  So that is true self publishing, and then you have to pick your printer.
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  Print on demand is very popular today because instead of having to have store 5000 books in
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  your garage, You can print one book at a time.
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  It's easy to make changes, and there are companies like Amazon's KDP.
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  Ingram Spark, those will get your books, distributed for you.
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  So my personal preference between the two, I like my print books, with Ingram Spark.
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  And my Kindle edition, I go directly to KDP.
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  I have a love hate relationship with Amazon as I think a lot
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  of authors and publishers would tell you.
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  And so that's my recommendation.
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  Well, I appreciate that advice because I had no way to tell people what to do.
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  Alright.
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  So I know you talked just a moment ago about what's involved in self publishing, but isn't
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  it more about the promotion of the book.
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  Like, getting the book done is like the step 1.
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  But then you gotta let the world know this book is coming out, and I that's so much harder than
• 9:02
  writing the book, isn't it?
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  Well, you know, you just went through a relaunch on your book.
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  It is a ton of work, and I see so many authors think that they're done because the book is
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  gone to print.
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  Right?
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  And that's just beginning.
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  So, you know, you need to be building an audience.
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  That's the bottom line.
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  There's a reason that traditional publishers want authors who have an audience because they
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  know the books are gonna sell.
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  So whether you do it yourself or you're going with the traditional publisher, we all need to
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  be cultivating an audience, a tribe of influence, people that are going to wanna buy
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  that book.
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  The minute it comes out, and you you have a lot of work to put in to get the the word out.
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  I can't say amen, amen enough.
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  I mean, really, I I tell people all the time what the publisher gives you is paper and ink.
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  You have to sell the book.
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  And whether you do traditional publishing or self publishing, you are gonna sell every copy
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  of that book.
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  And what I like to tell people about books is you know, if you're thinking about writing a
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  book, the first thing I want you to think about is what is it that you want this book to do for
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  you?
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  Because it is an expensive and painstaking process.
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  And when I say it's expensive, I mean, you have to hire your own public.
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  I remember when my book first came out in 2010, I wrote my own press release.
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  They didn't even write a press release for me.
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  So, you know, hire your own publicist for 3 to 6 months These are expensive things to do, and
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  I'm not sure that the person I I meet so many people who tell me they have a book in them.
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  Right?
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  And I'm always like, Okay.
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  Well, what is it that you want this book to do for you?
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  Because I just I just worry about people that, you know, bet the farm on these books.
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  And it's like, the only people that get rich doing books is like, Stephen King.
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  You know, it's like and so I tell people all the time, as if books are rather expensive
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  business cards.
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  I mean, they can be.
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  So with that, what what tips do you have?
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  On getting a book written?
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  Like like, how do you get the book done?
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  Yeah.
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  So and I think is a great business So if you're gonna speak or
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  do any of those things, you absolutely should have a book.
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  And sitting down to write it sounds like a a gigantic task, but it doesn't have to be that
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  painful.
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  So I think the key is to start with an outline.
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  Sit down and do the biggest brain dump and figure out what are the topics that you're
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  gonna cover in this book.
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  I do this with a stack of index cards.
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  I put every little detail interview.
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  I wanna include a piece of information, and I will spread it out on the floor, and then I
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  will start to organize it.
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  That becomes my outline.
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  And then if you sit down and let's say you just set a goal to write 600 words a day, that's
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  about 2 type pages.
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  If you did that for 60 days, you'd have 36,000 words.
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  Today, that's a shorter book, which is trendy.
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  You're done.
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  You've got a manuscript.
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  So it's really if you take in a bite sized pieces, I think it's very doable to write a
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  book.
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  I agree with you.
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  When I worked on becoming your own boss the first time, you know, back in 0 8, 0 9, I got
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  up every morning and wrote from 5 to 7 AM before my family woke up, like, before anybody
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  started moving around.
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  And that was, like, my time to work on my and I did it religiously.
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  And that's how I got it done.
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  Now my book was 65,000 words, you know, because back then, that's what the contracts were for.
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  And then, of course, after I got it done, they made me cut 5000 worse, but we don't wanna go
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  there.
• 12:40
  But one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is you have seen so many people
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  struggle with book marketing.
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  You you've created some courses to help people.
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  Haven't you?
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  I have.
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  Yeah.
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  So I created a book marketing master course.
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  It's a really intense 6 week program.
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  But it's going great.
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  We've run it twice so far.
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  We'll run it again this fall, and it really takes you through the entire process.
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  It includes a workbook.
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  And we created an optional certification program as well.
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  We have a lot of publishing industry professionals out there.
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  I wanted to see some consistent Marketing practices.
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  I was having a hard time recommending marketing consultants.
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  So now folks are going through our program, and we also have a Publishing master course on
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  certification program as well.
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  So both are an option, and we're thrilled to see so many people coming through them.
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  And really learning so much about the industry.
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  And the people that are taking your courses, you're, like, being able to make them, like,
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  mega referrals, like, right away.
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  Right?
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  Cause I don't know about you, people ask me for book editors and stuff all the time.
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  Yeah.
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  We have recommended resources at nonfiction authors association.com.
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  It's the most visited part of the website.
• 13:57
  And so all the certified pros get listed there, and we're already I mean, within weeks of them
• 14:03
  going live, we started hearing I'm getting clients and getting clients.
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  One of them landed her biggest clients she's ever had.
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  So I love hearing that.
• 14:10
  And, plus, we wanna be able to recommend people where you feel comp vulnerable recommending.
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  Right?
• 14:15
  So I feel really good knowing they have a process to follow.
• 14:20
  That's great stuff.
• 14:21
  Well, listen, when we come right back on the small biz chat podcast, we're gonna talk more
• 14:25
  with Stephanie Chandler about the book business.
• 14:28
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady, your host, and we will be right back.
• 14:35
  Lady.
• 14:36
  And I wanna welcome you to Small Business Lady University.
• 14:39
  Our mission here is to end small business failure.
• 14:43
  So all the courses here are about 2 things, how to become your own boss, or how to make money
• 14:49
  online.
• 14:50
  So that's what we do here.
• 14:52
  Whether you wanna learn about email, marketing, and sales funnels, or you're ready to get
• 14:57
  started with social media selling, Or if you're really just getting started with e Commerce,
• 15:02
  you might wanna jump into our how to sell and market online course.
• 15:06
  Either way, if you want to learn how to become your own boss, us and do it well.
• 15:11
  I have everything you need here at smallbizladyuniversity.com.
• 15:15
  If you have any questions or have any technical getting signed up, just email us at
• 15:21
  support@malindamerson.com.
• 15:24
  Take care.
• 15:26
  Welcome back.
• 15:27
  I'm here with my guest Stephanie Chandler.
• 15:30
  She is the CEO of the nonfiction writers association.
• 15:34
  Alright, Steph.
• 15:35
  How early should you start promoting a book?
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  You know, we talked about building an audience.
• 15:41
  I think that should start today, yesterday, last year.
• 15:45
  But the book itself, get a few months of a runway going.
• 15:49
  You know, I think it's really fun to involve your social media audience.
• 15:53
  Maybe you're working on cover design, and you can put them out there and have them vote.
• 15:57
  People love to participate.
• 15:59
  So start to kind of build that buzz, get people excited, but I like a 3 month runway maybe at
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  most.
• 16:05
  I don't think you need a lot more than that.
• 16:08
  I think that's a fair that's fair advice.
• 16:10
  And what are some of your favorite book marketing strategies?
• 16:13
  I think one of the biggest underutilized opportunities for authors is podcasting.
• 16:19
  Go be a guest You know, there are probably millions of podcasts at this point, and
• 16:24
  podcasts host tell me all the time, any guests, any guests, any guests, Melinda last week, you
• 16:29
  said I need a guest.
• 16:30
  I need a guest.
• 16:32
  So we need a guest.
• 16:33
  Right?
• 16:34
  So this is a great opportunity, especially for non fiction authors with a message or if you,
• 16:40
  you know, whatever your experience is, you can go be a guest on a podcast.
• 16:44
  You can also do the same thing with your local news.
• 16:48
  I really believe we should all be building an email list.
• 16:52
  In fact, if you gave me the choice between my email list and my Twitter account.
• 16:56
  I will take email every day of the week.
• 16:59
  Email is an asset.
• 17:00
  Nobody can take away from you.
• 17:02
  So these are some of the really big things that I want authors to focus on if you wanna build a
• 17:08
  long term career and actually sell some of those books.
• 17:11
  I agree.
• 17:12
  I agree.
• 17:13
  Alright, Steph.
• 17:14
  What is the best business advice that you've ever gotten?
• 17:18
  I love this question, and I always flash back to the Silicon Valley when I got plucked out of
• 17:23
  customer support and put into a sales role with a $4,000,000 quota.
• 17:27
  When I was sitting in the parking lot, with the boss who recruited me, we were heading into a
• 17:31
  big dot com.
• 17:32
  I won't say who, but you would know the CEO right now.
• 17:35
  And she looked at me and she said, you walk in that room like you own it.
• 17:40
  And it was truly the best device.
• 17:44
  And I don't view that as a fake it to make it.
• 17:46
  I view that as step into your confidence and the rest falls into place.
• 17:51
  And so I have found that to be really valuable, especially because I've done a lot of crazy
• 17:55
  things, like launching an online conference before anybody was doing those types of things.
• 18:00
  And if you come at it feeling confident, other people respond to that.
• 18:04
  So it's really fun to talk about this, Linda.
• 18:07
  Well, thank you so much for joining me, Stephanie.
• 18:10
  Stephanie, what's your favorite podcast?
• 18:12
  I'm a Renee Brown super fan.
• 18:14
  I love her podcasts.
• 18:15
  Both of them.
• 18:16
  I love her books.
• 18:17
  I I haven't heard her podcast, but I do love her.
• 18:21
  What is your favorite business app?
• 18:25
  What is your favorite my favorite business app?
• 18:28
  I think Trello is super cool.
• 18:30
  It's really fun to create boards in Trello.
• 18:34
  That's interesting.
• 18:35
  Trello makes me crazy, but I'm glad that you like it.
• 18:39
  Alright, Stephanie.
• 18:40
  What is your favorite old school marketing tip?
• 18:43
  I think that we should all be out speaking.
• 18:47
  Speak to your audience.
• 18:48
  There is opportunities in your own backyard, rotary club, Chamber, Commerce, you name it.
• 18:53
  You can go and promote your business as a speaker regardless of what your business is.
• 18:58
  Love it.
• 18:58
  Love it.
• 18:59
  Love it.
• 18:59
  You are exactly right.
• 19:02
  Alright, Stephanie.
• 19:03
  I know this is a hard question for you, but what is your favorite business book you've ever
• 19:07
  read?
• 19:07
  My brain hurts.
• 19:08
  I wanna list, like, 12.
• 19:09
  I'm gonna go with Seth Godin's tribes.
• 19:12
  I love the emphasis on the power of community I think it really planted a seed for me in
• 19:19
  building a community and just had a
• 19:21
  lot of impact in my business in a lot of ways.
• 19:24
  He's just a wonderful writer anyway.
• 19:27
  He is.
• 19:27
  He is.
• 19:27
  He's written so many good ones.
• 19:29
  I mean, Purple Carroll is one of my favorite ones from him.
• 19:31
  Listen.
• 19:32
  Thank you all so much for joining me for this latest episode of the small biz chat podcast.
• 19:38
  I really enjoy doing this, and our mission is to end small business failure.
• 19:43
  If you're out here still working on your digital pivot, be sure to check out Small
• 19:47
  Buslady University.
• 19:49
  And my brand new course social media selling.
• 19:52
  I wanna give you the tools you need to finally start generating the money you deserve online.
• 19:58
  Thank you all so much for being with us tonight, and I wanna leave you with this.
• 20:02
  You never lose in business, either you win or you learn.
• 20:06
  Good night, everybody, and God bless.
• 20:10
  Thank you for listening to the Small Biz Chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 20:15
  For more resources and small business success strategies, visit succeed as your own boss.com.
• 20:21
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 20:24
  And join us next Wednesday.