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Pascagoula Alien Abduction: The Secret Police Tape That Still Raises Questions · Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No | UFOs, UAPs & Alien Mysteries

• 0:03
  Josh: Aliens.
• 0:07
  Travis: Yes.
• 0:09
  Travis: But maybe no.
• 0:19
  Travis: Welcome back to the show, aliens.
• 0:21
  Travis: Yes, but maybe no with Josh and Travis.
• 0:24
  Travis: I'm Travis.
• 0:25
  Travis: I'm Josh.
• 0:26
  Travis: And this is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as her title.
• 0:29
  Travis: Yes.
• 0:30
  Travis: Yes.
• 0:31
  Travis: Every time, yes.
• 0:32
  Travis: Favorite day of the week.
• 0:34
  Josh: It is.
• 0:34
  Josh: So I started playing DD.
• 0:37
  Josh: Huh?
• 0:38
  Josh: You what?
• 0:39
  Josh: Yeah.
• 0:40
  Josh: You play DD?
• 0:41
  Josh: Yeah.
• 0:42
  Josh: Do you, Josh Snodgrass?
• 0:43
  Travis: Yep.
• 0:44
  Travis: Are you addicted?
• 0:45
  Travis: I don't know yet.
• 0:46
  Travis: I feel something.
• 0:47
  Travis: Yeah.
• 0:47
  Travis: That's my biggest fear is I would get addicted.
• 0:51
  Travis: It's fantasy and theater.
• 0:53
  Travis: Like two things that are big in our house.
• 0:56
  Travis: I just can't.
• 0:57
  Travis: I'm gonna become obsessed.
• 0:58
  Travis: I know myself too well.
• 0:59
  Travis: That's just how it goes with me.
• 1:01
  Josh: Yeah, it's fun.
• 1:02
  Josh: I haven't showered since I started playing.
• 1:05
  Josh: You look great though for not having showered.
• 1:07
  Josh: Oh well, thank you.
• 1:08
  Josh: It's that oily dew.
• 1:10
  Travis: Yep.
• 1:10
  Travis: Just the grease holding you together.
• 1:12
  Josh: Yep.
• 1:12
  Travis: Just barely.
• 1:13
  Josh: I hope I don't get to the point where it is me next to a dumpster like your friend.
• 1:18
  Josh: I d that would honestly, it would be more sad that you had two friends that ended up that way than me just alone being by a dumpster.
• 1:29
  Travis: Yeah, next to a dumpster.
• 1:30
  Travis: Almost died.
• 1:31
  Travis: Do I feel sad about it?
• 1:33
  Travis: Yes.
• 1:33
  Travis: Desperately sad, Josh.
• 1:35
  Josh: The common denominator is you in that situation.
• 1:38
  Travis: Yeah, I'm an introducer.
• 1:40
  Travis: I'm a pusher.
• 1:41
  Josh: You're the one who's like, hey, have you ever played by a dumpster?
• 1:44
  Travis: Yep.
• 1:45
  Travis: I'm the guy that's riding around your town with uh bumper stickers that says D D.
• 1:49
  Josh: Try it by a dumpster.
• 1:52
  Josh: I was trying to remember, once again, what we talked about last episode.
• 1:56
  Josh: Yeah, who who cares?
• 1:58
  Josh: Oh, I remember it's the Fermi, Fermi, Fermi paradox.
• 2:02
  Josh: I I did not like the Fermi paradox.
• 2:04
  Josh: It was, I mean, I like I like having the knowledge.
• 2:07
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:07
  Josh: You know, I feel like I can talk about that with people now.
• 2:09
  Josh: I feel like that would be a huge mood killer.
• 2:12
  Josh: You think so?
• 2:13
  Travis: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Travis: The Dark Force theory is terrifying.
• 2:16
  Travis: I don't I don't like that at all.
• 2:17
  Josh: So at the end of that episode, we took a quiz like we do every episode about our next episode topic.
• 2:24
  Josh: And it was the Pascagoula alien abduction.
• 2:28
  Josh: I wasn't I wasn't prepared.
• 2:29
  Josh: I knew nothing.
• 2:30
  Travis: Um, I didn't know anything about it either, but the name, I was like, this has to be in Mississippi.
• 2:37
  Josh: No, you said Florida.
• 2:39
  Josh: Oh, did I?
• 2:40
  Josh: Oh, yeah.
• 2:41
  Josh: Okay.
• 2:42
  Josh: What's the difference?
• 2:42
  Josh: I can go back and edit that episode so it makes it sound like you said Mississippi.
• 2:46
  Josh: Do you want a couple takes?
• 2:48
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Travis: Mississippi.
• 2:50
  Travis: Mississippi?
• 2:51
  Travis: Mississippi.
• 2:53
  Josh: Got it.
• 2:53
  Josh: Okay, good.
• 2:54
  Josh: So today we're heading to the Gulf Coast of Mississippi, to a quiet shipyard town called Pascagoula, for a case that a lot of researchers consider one of the most well-documented abduction stories on record.
• 3:06
  Josh: On the night of October 11th, 1973, two shipyard workers went fishing on the Pascagoula River, like they'd done plenty of times before.
• 3:15
  Josh: By the end of the night, they were telling a sheriff's deputy that they'd been lifted into a hovering craft by three strange gray, robotic-looking creatures.
• 3:22
  Josh: I can't wait to talk about this.
• 3:24
  Josh: What makes this case stand apart from a lot of the other abduction stories we've covered is the sheer amount of documentation around it.
• 3:30
  Josh: So we got a secret recording made by law enforcement, a polygraph test, hypnosis session with a well-known researcher, and a medical exam that turned up physical marks on both men.
• 3:41
  Josh: So today we're going to walk through what happened at the old Schumpeter shipyard, look at how investigation unfolded in the hours and days after, hear from the scientists and skeptics who each took their own run at explaining it, and follow what happened to Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker for the rest of their lives.
• 3:59
  Josh: For the rest of their lives.
• 4:01
  Josh: Wow.
• 4:01
  Josh: Yep.
• 4:01
  Josh: That's a long time.
• 4:02
  Travis: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Josh: We're going to look at everything.
• 4:05
  Josh: Who they married.
• 4:06
  Josh: What junk mail they threw away and what they kept.
• 4:09
  Josh: We're going to cover it all.
• 4:11
  Josh: Yep.
• 4:11
  Josh: So uh everybody get some coffee.
• 4:14
  Josh: Buckle in.
• 4:15
  Josh: Get comfy.
• 4:16
  Josh: Yep.
• 4:16
  Travis: You can't get comfy in a buckle, can you?
• 4:18
  Travis: Well, I don't want you to get too comfy.
• 4:20
  Travis: I don't want you to fall asleep.
• 4:21
  Travis: That's true.
• 4:22
  Travis: Get comfy and then buckle yourself in.
• 4:24
  Travis: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Travis: So let's dive into that night at Shumpeter Shipyard.
• 4:28
  Travis: The encounter took place at approximately 9 p.m.
• 4:31
  Travis: on October the 11th, 1973, at the abandoned Schempeter Shipyard on the west bank of the Pascagoula River in Mississippi.
• 4:38
  Travis: The two men present were Charles Hickson, age 42, a shipyard foreman, and his co-worker, Calvin Parker, who was around 19.
• 4:47
  Travis: Both men worked at FB Walker and Son's shipyard, and their relationship went beyond the job, which is like a wildly put-together sentence.
• 4:55
  Travis: That implies that maybe there was a little bit of romance.
• 5:00
  Travis: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Travis: But Parker was close friends with Hicks's son and lived with the Hickson family during the work week.
• 5:06
  Travis: Hickson had also saved Parker's life years earlier when Parker fell into the Pearl River, which gave the two men a long-standing bond well before that night.
• 5:16
  Travis: That's kind of sweet.
• 5:17
  Travis: Yeah.
• 5:17
  Travis: Saved his life.
• 5:18
  Travis: But he he was the one that pushed him in.
• 5:21
  Travis: Oh yeah.
• 5:23
  Travis: So the men were fishing when they heard a hissing or zipping sound, which Hickson later compared to steam escaping from a pipe.
• 5:30
  Travis: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Travis: Behind them, an oval football-shaped craft appeared, hovering somewhere between 18 inches and a few feet off the ground.
• 5:37
  Travis: Jeez.
• 5:38
  Travis: Yeah, I mean, it's just like you turn around and it's well, they say the estimates put the craft at roughly to 30 to 40 feet long and eight to ten feet high.
• 5:45
  Travis: So it's not like huge.
• 5:47
  Travis: But big.
• 5:48
  Travis: But it's big enough, and if it's on the ground, now you're confronted with it.
• 5:53
  Travis: It's just like barely hovering above the ground.
• 5:54
  Travis: It's not something in the sky.
• 5:56
  Travis: Yeah, no tractor beam.
• 5:57
  Travis: It's just right there.
• 5:58
  Travis: Right there.
• 5:59
  Travis: Right in your face.
• 6:00
  Travis: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Travis: So two blue lights on the front that pulsed or appeared to revolve.
• 6:04
  Travis: A door on the craft slid open and a wave of brilliant light spilled out.
• 6:08
  Travis: Three entities emerged from that light and moved toward the men.
• 6:11
  Travis: Witnesses, I'm assuming they mean Hickson and Parker.
• 6:15
  Travis: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Travis: So they described the entities as roughly five feet to five foot four in height, gray wrinkled skin, often compared to elephant hide.
• 6:24
  Travis: Their heads were described as bullet-shaped with no visible neck, and their faces showed slit-like mouths and small pointed protrusions resembling carrots, where a nose and ears might be expected.
• 6:38
  Travis: Oh my gosh.
• 6:39
  Travis: Their eyes were never clearly identified by either witness.
• 6:42
  Travis: Their arms were long, ending in claws, described as mitten-shaped, crab-like, or lobster-like, and their legs appeared fused or welded together, giving them a mechanical gliding motion across the ground rather than a normal walking gait.
• 6:55
  Travis: So this is like very much kind of like a less sexy version of the Flatwoods monster.
• 7:00
  Travis: Because the Flatwoods monster was described as not having legs.
• 7:02
  Travis: This seems like something a troubled youth would draw.
• 7:06
  Travis: It's so funny.
• 7:08
  Travis: Just like picture like carrots hanging out of ears, and it's just like draw that and tell me that that isn't really funny.
• 7:17
  Travis: And then you it's like a bullet-shaped head.
• 7:20
  Travis: So like an arc at the top, and then just straight down.
• 7:22
  Josh: Yeah, I don't dislike it.
• 7:24
  Josh: I guess if it was in front of me, I would very much dislike it.
• 7:27
  Travis: The crab like hands are pretty funny.
• 7:30
  Travis: So two of the entities took hold of Hickson, and the third took Parker, who fainted from fear almost immediately.
• 7:36
  Travis: I just that to me is the funniest part of this, is that he just went and collapsed.
• 7:47
  Josh: I mean, it it could break your reality.
• 7:50
  Josh: Yeah.
• 7:50
  Josh: I I could understand fainting.
• 7:52
  Travis: I could too.
• 7:53
  Travis: It's just I just But it is funny.
• 7:55
  Travis: Yeah.
• 7:56
  Travis: Hickson recalled feeling a sharp prick in his arm right before his body, locked into total paralysis.
• 8:01
  Travis: The men were then levitated into the craft and brought into a round chamber that seemed to glow from every surface, floor, walls, and ceiling included.
• 8:09
  Travis: So inside, Hickson was suspended in the air, able to move only his eyes.
• 8:14
  Travis: But in the documentary, he said he couldn't close them, which is Oh, that's even worse.
• 8:20
  Travis: That's really scary.
• 8:21
  Travis: They wanted him to see.
• 8:22
  Travis: That's what makes reading a scary book so scary.
• 8:25
  Travis: If you're watching a movie, you can always close your eyes.
• 8:27
  Travis: But reading a scary book, you can't.
• 8:30
  Travis: Do you close your eyes at scary parts in movies?
• 8:33
  Josh: Yes.
• 8:33
  Travis: Don't you?
• 8:34
  Josh: Do you really?
• 8:34
  Josh: No.
• 8:35
  Travis: Sometimes I don't close them all the way, I squint because that's for some reason feels safer.
• 8:39
  Travis: But I love scary movies.
• 8:41
  Travis: I like that feeling of being scared.
• 8:42
  Josh: I stand up and start half tiptoeing, half jumping.
• 8:46
  Travis: Yeah, you become action, Josh.
• 8:48
  Josh: Yeah.
• 8:48
  Travis: You just get so scared, you're just like, I can't.
• 8:50
  Travis: That's how they get you, though, is they get you sitting down.
• 8:53
  Travis: That's true.
• 8:54
  Travis: Or they get you with your eyes open.
• 8:56
  Travis: That's why I just squint.
• 8:57
  Josh: That's cute that you close your eyes.
• 8:59
  Josh: There's spooky things in the world.
• 9:01
  Travis: And you don't want to see them.
• 9:02
  Travis: So a mechanical device he described as a large eye or big pupil emerged from the wall and passed over his body from head to foot, performing what felt like a full physical scan.
• 9:13
  Travis: So just imagine that.
• 9:14
  Travis: A big eye.
• 9:15
  Travis: Ugh.
• 9:16
  Travis: Like if you were at the dentist, you know those lights they put over the top of you.
• 9:20
  Travis: Yeah.
• 9:20
  Travis: Imagine that, but an eyeball.
• 9:23
  Travis: Nope.
• 9:24
  Travis: Nope.
• 9:24
  Travis: Yeah, that's uh very unpleasant.
• 9:27
  Travis: Parker's memory of the interior was far less complete since he'd already lost consciousness from terror.
• 9:32
  Travis: He later recalled particular underhomnosis being examined by a female presenting entity and having his clothing removed.
• 9:38
  Travis: Nice.
• 9:39
  Travis: Yeah, nice.
• 9:40
  Travis: Nice work if you can get it.
• 9:43
  Travis: I mean, I'm not saying I don't know what I'm not saying.
• 9:46
  Travis: You're not implying anything happened.
• 9:48
  Josh: Yeah, I just uh Yeah, okay.
• 9:51
  Josh: I missed touch.
• 9:54
  Travis: Aww.
• 9:55
  Travis: But he was so scared he probably passed out again.
• 9:57
  Travis: Uh yeah, he just woke up.
• 9:59
  Travis: Yep, he just yep, fainted, probably ejaculated all over himself, too.
• 10:05
  Travis: Uh so after a stretch of time, the witnesses estimated at anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour, the men were returned to the exact spot on the riverbank where they'd been fishing.
• 10:14
  Travis: Hickson found Parker standing near the pier in a state of shock, arms outstretched as the craft made its hissing sound again and disappeared into the night sky.
• 10:22
  Travis: One additional detail worth mentioning on the opposite bank of the river that same night, a couple named Maria and Jerry Blair reported seeing a similar football-shaped craft, which gives the case a second independent set of eyes on the same event.
• 10:36
  Travis: Whoa.
• 10:38
  Travis: That's wild.
• 10:38
  Travis: Like it didn't take very long.
• 10:40
  Travis: I mean, it's not like the Travis Walton story where he was gone for days, right?
• 10:45
  Travis: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Travis: This is just like, up, we're gonna take a look at you real quick, poke around a little, make sure you're uh whatever you say you are, and then drop you right back down.
• 10:56
  Josh: I would imagine logistically, I mean, if I were an alien, I would want it to not take very long so that time lost was shorter so that you didn't know anything happened.
• 11:07
  Travis: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Travis: They should have just put them totally out then, not let them keep their eyes open.
• 11:11
  Josh: Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking.
• 11:13
  Josh: Definitely going against code.
• 11:14
  Josh: Yeah, I think so.
• 11:16
  Josh: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Josh: They made a mistake.
• 11:17
  Josh: Yep.
• 11:18
  Josh: They messed up big.
• 11:19
  Josh: I'm pretty sure that's probably how most of these abductions are.
• 11:22
  Josh: That's why we know is just mess ups.
• 11:24
  Travis: Yeah, they stopped using the Trank 720.
• 11:26
  Travis: I'm not familiar with that.
• 11:28
  Travis: When they know that they should have been using the 840.
• 11:31
  Travis: Oh, is that is those are tranks?
• 11:33
  Travis: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Josh: Why do you know No?
• 11:35
  Josh: This is all information from you.
• 11:40
  Josh: Okay.
• 11:41
  Josh: So the first 24 hours.
• 11:44
  Josh: The men made it back to the riverbank, and the story doesn't end there.
• 11:47
  Josh: It's actually just getting started.
• 11:49
  Josh: What they did in those hours right after the encounter is a huge part of why this case gets taken seriously.
• 11:55
  Josh: Hickson and Parker hesitated at first, worried about the ridicule that would come from telling anyone about what happened.
• 12:01
  Travis: Oh, yeah, because the McFarland came back just covered in his own ejaculate.
• 12:05
  Josh: No.
• 12:06
  Josh: Hickson, however, was thinking about the craft as a potential national security concern, given his instinct as a Korean War veteran, and that pushed him towards reporting it.
• 12:15
  Josh: Their first call went to the Keisler Air Force Base.
• 12:19
  Josh: The staff there showed little interest in investigating and directed the men to the local law enforcement instead.
• 12:24
  Josh: So before heading to the sheriff's department, the men stopped at the Mississippi Press newsroom hoping to get some kind of record of the event on file.
• 12:32
  Josh: The door was locked.
• 12:33
  Josh: Because they were so freaked out, they started pounding on the glass door and screaming.
• 12:37
  Josh: Inside the newsroom were housekeepers Catherine and Dorothy Smith, who notes that Hickson appeared calm while Parker was visibly shaken.
• 12:45
  Josh: They did ignore them, though, for their safety, because that would be freaky.
• 12:49
  Josh: You're just cleaning an office and then crazy guys are pounding at night on the window.
• 12:54
  Josh: So they just ignored them and they didn't approach the glass, but they did see them.
• 12:57
  Josh: From there, the men went to the Jackson County Sheriff's Office and met with Sheriff Fred Diamond.
• 13:02
  Josh: Totally real name.
• 13:03
  Josh: No, that's a cool name.
• 13:05
  Josh: It's cool.
• 13:06
  Josh: Totally real.
• 13:07
  Travis: You think you think it's fake?
• 13:08
  Travis: I don't know.
• 13:09
  Travis: I just it doesn't sound that's too cool of a name.
• 13:14
  Travis: That's true.
• 13:15
  Travis: It's too cool.
• 13:16
  Travis: It's you're right.
• 13:17
  Josh: There is a level that is Sheriff Fred Diamond.
• 13:21
  Josh: So Diamond suspected the two might be drunk or running a prank.
• 13:24
  Josh: So he had Captain Ryder, another cool name, yeah, question them separately.
• 13:29
  Josh: Afterward, Diamond and Ryder left them alone.
• 13:32
  Josh: Cool duo.
• 13:33
  Josh: I know.
• 13:34
  Josh: They should make a movie.
• 13:35
  Josh: They should make a cop movie.
• 13:37
  Josh: They should make a cop movie.
• 13:38
  Josh: Has that ever been done before?
• 13:40
  Josh: No, it hasn't.
• 13:41
  Josh: Diamond and Ryder.
• 13:42
  Josh: So Diamond Ryder left the men alone together in a room, and this is the part of the story that really elevated the case because they planted a hidden tape recorder in the room without the men's knowledge.
• 13:54
  Josh: Uh oh.
• 13:55
  Josh: The recording captured the two men while they believed no one was listening.
• 13:59
  Josh: Rather than breaking character or comparing notes on a hoax, the tape caught raw, unguarded distress.
• 14:06
  Josh: Hickson can be heard praying, asking for mercy, and saying he thought he'd already been through enough hell on this earth.
• 14:12
  Josh: Parker, meanwhile, is heard expressing fear that he might be having a heart attack and reportedly tried to climb the wall of the room.
• 14:21
  Josh: That's wild.
• 14:22
  Josh: Yeah, it's that's a thing.
• 14:25
  Josh: For a lot of investigators, this secret recording became the single strongest piece of evidence for the men's sincerity.
• 14:31
  Josh: Because they were alone in a room, they could have just broken this lie.
• 14:36
  Travis: Yeah, it could have been full of high fives, like, haha, we got them.
• 14:39
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Travis: We we tricked these cops.
• 14:42
  Travis: But it didn't happen.
• 14:43
  Travis: They were sincere.
• 14:44
  Travis: What would you even get out of that though?
• 14:46
  Travis: Tricking the cops?
• 14:47
  Travis: Attention?
• 14:48
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Josh: Like, what is there to gain?
• 14:50
  Josh: Potentially fame and money.
• 14:52
  Josh: Sure.
• 14:52
  Josh: So within a day, word of the encounter had spread well beyond Pascagoula.
• 14:57
  Josh: Hickson's son, Eddie, a U.S.
• 14:59
  Josh: Marine stationed in Okinawa, first learned about his father's abduction by reading about it in the military newspaper Stars and Stripes.
• 15:07
  Josh: Heard of it?
• 15:08
  Josh: I no.
• 15:09
  Josh: I haven't either.
• 15:10
  Travis: I don't know.
• 15:11
  Travis: I'm asking you, have you heard of it, Josh?
• 15:13
  Travis: Have you heard of Stars and Stripes?
• 15:14
  Josh: I told you no.
• 15:15
  Josh: Jeez.
• 15:16
  Josh: But it does give a sense of how quickly this traveled.
• 15:20
  Josh: Like someone in Okinawa reading about it in the newspaper.
• 15:24
  Travis: Don't you think that would be weird?
• 15:25
  Travis: Like something happened to your dad, and you were on the other side of the earth?
• 15:30
  Travis: Just not even in the same town.
• 15:31
  Travis: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Travis: You don't even have to be on the other side of the earth.
• 15:34
  Travis: Just like, and you were reading a magazine, and then there it is.
• 15:38
  Travis: Josh's dad doing a doing a thing.
• 15:41
  Josh: It would be weird seeing anyone I know in the newspaper.
• 15:45
  Travis: But I mean, this is like immediate family.
• 15:48
  Travis: That is that would be even more shocking.
• 15:50
  Travis: I would be like, why didn't you tell me about this, dad and supposed best friend?
• 15:56
  Travis: That's true.
• 15:57
  Travis: Like you couldn't have dropped me a letter.
• 15:59
  Travis: Can have called?
• 16:00
  Travis: That's a weird way to hear about it.
• 16:02
  Travis: I don't know what the phone situation was, though, on an army base in the 70s.
• 16:06
  Josh: It was in I mean, there was phone booths everywhere.
• 16:08
  Travis: No, but this is like a publication.
• 16:10
  Travis: Like this is weeks after this had happened.
• 16:12
  Travis: They they had to interview, and I and it's weird that it was even in Stars and Stripes, because it's not It's not about Stars and Stripes.
• 16:19
  Travis: No, and it's not like the as far as I know, the military's not involved, but they they still printed the story anyway.
• 16:27
  Josh: Yeah, Project Blue Book had ended a few years earlier.
• 16:31
  Josh: So them saying that they're not interested, we don't go over that stuff anymore.
• 16:35
  Josh: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Josh: That's the reason.
• 16:37
  Travis: So it is weird.
• 16:39
  Travis: So once the story got out, it stopped being a local curiosity and turned into a case that actual scientists and professional examiners wanted to test.
• 16:46
  Travis: Dr.
• 16:47
  Travis: Julius Bosco conducted the initial medical examination on the two men.
• 16:51
  Travis: His report, dated October 13th, concluded that the men were in a state of genuine shock rather than performing an act.
• 16:57
  Travis: Bosco's exam also identified puncture marks.
• 17:00
  Travis: So this is two days after this reported incident.
• 17:04
  Travis: One on Hickson's forearm and one on Parker's foot, both matching the men's description of feeling a prick during the abduction.
• 17:11
  Travis: There's a little wordplay we could do there, but we won't.
• 17:14
  Travis: We're professionals.
• 17:15
  Travis: Not gonna do it.
• 17:16
  Travis: We're grown-ups.
• 17:17
  Travis: Josh already edited out all the laughing.
• 17:20
  Travis: Separately, military personnel at Keysler Air Force Base ran a radiological screening, swabbing the men's shoes, clothing fibers, and fingernails to check for contamination.
• 17:29
  Travis: The results came back negative, though the fact that the military ran such a detailed check at all suggests a higher level of concern than their public statements led on.
• 17:37
  Travis: Hickson also underwent a polygraph examination administered by Charles Pennington.
• 17:42
  Travis: Pennington reportedly viewed the whole situation as a joke going in.
• 17:46
  Travis: Classic.
• 17:47
  Josh: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Travis: But after running the test multiple times, some accounts say as many as three to six times, in fact, he came away convinced of Hickson's sincerity.
• 17:55
  Travis: Wow.
• 17:56
  Travis: When state police offered Hickson a second independent polygraph test, later on, he declined it.
• 18:01
  Travis: A detail that skeptics tend to bring up often.
• 18:04
  Travis: Polygraph tests, like we know a lot more about polygraph tests.
• 18:07
  Travis: They're not accurate.
• 18:09
  Travis: Right.
• 18:10
  Travis: You can false track yourself.
• 18:12
  Travis: Yeah, false positive.
• 18:14
  Travis: Like they're not they're not that accurate.
• 18:16
  Josh: Well, and also he just went through an ordeal.
• 18:18
  Travis: It's gonna be super heightened anyway.
• 18:20
  Josh: He just did potentially six polygraph tests.
• 18:23
  Josh: He's been talking with people.
• 18:24
  Josh: He probably just didn't want another thing.
• 18:27
  Josh: I don't think that was probably him saying, no, no, I don't want to get caught.
• 18:30
  Josh: It was just like I'm fucking exhausted.
• 18:33
  Josh: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Travis: So on the hypnosis side, two prominent researchers got involved: Dr.
• 18:38
  Travis: James Harder, an engineering professor from the University of California, Berkeley, and Dr.
• 18:43
  Travis: J.
• 18:44
  Travis: Alan Heinek, uh-oh, a astrophysicist from Northwestern University, who had previously served as a consultant for the Air Force and had a reputation as a skeptic going in.
• 18:54
  Travis: During hypnotic regression sessions, Harter observed both men sweating and shaking in ways he considered physiologically difficult to fake, and he described their experience using the term real and effrayante.
• 19:06
  Travis: That sounds good to me.
• 19:08
  Travis: Sure.
• 19:08
  Travis: Okay.
• 19:09
  Travis: Meaning real and frightening.
• 19:11
  Travis: I don't think I needed the qualifier there meaning real, because that's probably real means real.
• 19:16
  Travis: Yeah, real means real and effrayante is frightening.
• 19:20
  Travis: In Pig Watten, uh Heinet, despite his skeptical starting point, came away describing the case as fitting a broader, globally documented pattern he called Close Encounters.
• 19:33
  Josh: Ooh, if you want to learn about that, then you can go to our Close Encounters episode for sure.
• 19:40
  Josh: Maybe a little Heinek in there.
• 19:43
  Josh: There's a little Hynek.
• 19:44
  Josh: It's a little Heinek everywhere.
• 19:46
  Josh: A big one, a grown, a grown one.
• 19:47
  Josh: Normal sized.
• 19:49
  Josh: Yep.
• 19:49
  Josh: So now we're gonna talk a little bit about the skeptical side of the story.
• 19:54
  Josh: Ooh, delightful.
• 19:55
  Josh: For as much physical and psychological evidence as this case built up, it's worth giving equal time to the researchers who took the exact same material and came away with a very different conclusion.
• 20:06
  Josh: Journalist Philip Kloss and researcher Joe Nickel each offered alternative explanations.
• 20:12
  Josh: Kloss focused heavily on the credibility of the polygraph process, pointing out that Pennington had limited experience as an examiner and highlighting Hickson's refusal of a second test with state police as a red flag.
• 20:25
  Josh: Nichols' theory centered on Hickson's background as a Korean War veteran who survived five major battles.
• 20:31
  Josh: That's a lot.
• 20:32
  Josh: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Josh: He proposed that Hicks's wartime trauma may have triggered something like a waking dream state, which the highly suggestible and much younger Parker than mirrored, creating a shared narrative between the two of them.
• 20:45
  Josh: That's wild.
• 20:46
  Josh: Hmm.
• 20:46
  Josh: That is wild.
• 20:48
  Josh: Like dream sharing.
• 20:49
  Josh: Dre yeah.
• 20:50
  Travis: But waking dream, I don't know.
• 20:52
  Travis: Dream sharing is like a thing in the dark crystal.
• 20:56
  Travis: Is it?
• 20:56
  Travis: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Travis: Uh the two gelflings that that are left have a dream about the people that trained them.
• 21:05
  Josh: The Air Force's official position throughout this period was one of formal distance.
• 21:10
  Josh: By 1973, Project Blue Book, the Air Force's long-running UFO investigation unit, had already closed, having wrapped up in 1969 with the general conclusion that most historical sightings were misinterpretations or hoaxes.
• 21:25
  Josh: The Air Force's public stance was that it was no longer in the business of investigating claims like this one.
• 21:31
  Josh: That stated, hands-off position sits in attention with a couple of details on the record.
• 21:36
  Josh: Kiesler Air Force Base, despite its public interest, conducted a detailed witness briefing that produced a 17 page stenographer's transcript, which suggests a level of internal attention that didn't match what they were telling the public.
• 21:50
  Josh: On the local level, Sheriff Fred Diamond, he himself actually reported his own UFO sighting.
• 21:57
  Travis: Wait a second.
• 22:00
  Josh: Yeah, just two nights after interviewing Hickson and Parker.
• 22:05
  Josh: So adding a weird layer to this whole role.
• 22:09
  Josh: And in a smaller, almost comedic footnote, the Ocean Springs City Council responded to the local UFO flap by passing a resolution making UFO landings illegal within city limits.
• 22:22
  Josh: What's a UFO flap?
• 22:24
  Josh: We looked that up one time.
• 22:25
  Josh: It's uh something really popular in in the news.
• 22:29
  Josh: Like everyone's talking about it.
• 22:31
  Travis: Okay.
• 22:32
  Travis: Hold on.
• 22:32
  Travis: I'm just a hint.
• 22:34
  Travis: Okay.
• 22:35
  Travis: I'm I'm looking up Flap.
• 22:37
  Travis: We've done this already.
• 22:38
  Travis: So informal Oh, I don't remember.
• 22:40
  Travis: A state of worry, panic, or excitement.
• 22:44
  Travis: Could mean that.
• 22:45
  Travis: Look up alien flap or UFO flap.
• 22:48
  Travis: I don't think so.
• 22:49
  Travis: No, it's not.
• 22:50
  Josh: That's gonna give me some weird results.
• 22:51
  Josh: No, it's not gonna do it.
• 22:52
  Josh: No, it's not gonna do that.
• 22:54
  Travis: Uh UFO flap is a sudden high concentration of reported unidentified flying object sightings in a specific geographic area over a short period.
• 23:04
  Travis: That sounds like a flap to me.
• 23:06
  Travis: It does.
• 23:07
  Josh: Ocean Springs City Council was just cashing in on a hot topic, which is smart.
• 23:12
  Travis: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Travis: Okay.
• 23:13
  Travis: Well, let's go into life after the lights of this UFO.
• 23:17
  Travis: So with the scientific and skeptical cases both on the table, the last piece of the story is what happened to Hickson and Parker once the cameras and researchers eventually moved on.
• 23:26
  Travis: Their two paths ended up looking very different from each other.
• 23:29
  Travis: Charles Hickson became, in the words of several researchers, the torchbearer of the case.
• 23:35
  Travis: He spent years giving interviews, appearing at conventions, and speaking publicly about the encounter.
• 23:40
  Travis: In 1983, he co-authored a book called UFO Contact in Pascagoula with William Mendez.
• 23:47
  Travis: Great.
• 23:48
  Josh: Of course.
• 23:48
  Travis: Yeah.
• 23:49
  Josh: Like when when someone is making money, it makes it a little less believable.
• 23:54
  Travis: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Travis: I mean, we will talk a little bit about Calvin because he had a really hard time finding work.
• 23:59
  Travis: I think living in a small town like this where you have an experience like they did.
• 24:05
  Travis: A public experience.
• 24:07
  Travis: Whatever, yeah, whatever happened to them because something definitely did, you end up like Randy Quaid's character in Independence Day.
• 24:15
  Travis: Right.
• 24:15
  Travis: Kind of like the joke.
• 24:17
  Travis: Yeah.
• 24:18
  Travis: He also claimed additional contact experiences after 1973, most notably a Mother's Day sighting in 1974.
• 24:24
  Travis: So a year later.
• 24:25
  Travis: Less than a year.
• 24:26
  Travis: Like seven months later?
• 24:28
  Travis: In May.
• 24:29
  Travis: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Travis: Yeah.
• 24:30
  Travis: May 1974, during which he said his family witness a different craft while traveling together.
• 24:35
  Travis: His wife reportedly became so hysterical that Hickson couldn't get out of the car.
• 24:39
  Travis: Hickson also claimed to possess a message stone.
• 24:42
  Travis: This is this is funny.
• 24:44
  Travis: Nice.
• 24:44
  Travis: Allegedly given to him by the entities, describing it as lightweight, indestructible, and prone to heat up during what he called telepathic transmissions.
• 24:53
  Travis: Oh boy.
• 24:54
  Travis: That's weird.
• 24:55
  Travis: His wife Blanche later described her husband suffering from cold sweats for months after the encounter.
• 25:00
  Travis: Severe enough that she had to change his bed sheets multiple times a night.
• 25:08
  Travis: Yeah.
• 25:08
  Josh: One of the worst chores is to change bedsheets.
• 25:11
  Josh: You're not going to do it multiple times a night.
• 25:14
  Travis: No way.
• 25:14
  Travis: You're just going to be like, nope, let them sleep and they're sick.
• 25:16
  Travis: Yeah, she's going to go on the couch or have him go somewhere else and Oh, she's going to go somewhere else.
• 25:22
  Travis: Oh, yeah.
• 25:22
  Travis: She's going to go.
• 25:23
  Travis: Because if he goes somewhere else, she's still laying in his sweat, his sick.
• 25:26
  Josh: Yeah, that's true.
• 25:28
  Josh: Yeah, no way.
• 25:29
  Travis: And who has multiple bed sheets to be doing this every night?
• 25:33
  Josh: Well, I mean, Travis, you and I, like we said, we're adults.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:37
  Josh: And we do.
• 25:38
  Josh: Multiple?
• 25:38
  Josh: I think I've got two.
• 25:40
  Josh: I think we have two.
• 25:41
  Josh: That just seems wild.
• 25:42
  Travis: That they would just be changing it.
• 25:43
  Travis: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Josh: That she would change it multiple times.
• 25:46
  Travis: You're right.
• 25:46
  Travis: It is like one of the worst chores.
• 25:48
  Josh: Yeah.
• 25:48
  Travis: So Calvin Parker's path looked much harder.
• 25:51
  Travis: He experienced multiple nervous breakdowns and long stretches of job instability, and he spent years in seclusion, largely avoiding public attention connected to the case.
• 26:00
  Travis: For years he stayed almost entirely out of the public eye.
• 26:03
  Travis: He even kept the full story hidden from parts of his own family for about 45 years.
• 26:08
  Travis: Can you imagine keeping a secret like that?
• 26:10
  Travis: No.
• 26:10
  Travis: So in the mid-2010s, Parker's health took a turn, and that decline pushed him to finally tell his side of things.
• 26:17
  Travis: He often said everybody has an expiration date, and he wanted his story out there before his ran out.
• 26:22
  Travis: In 2018, with encouragement from his wife, he released his own book called Pascagoa, The Closest Encounter, My Story.
• 26:29
  Travis: It was the first full account of the event told from his point of view, covering both the night itself and the decades of fallout that followed.
• 26:36
  Travis: Once the book came out, Parker started doing more interviews and attending UFO conventions.
• 26:40
  Travis: He had actually gotten involved in the field earlier than that.
• 26:43
  Travis: Back in 1993, he started a company called UFO Investigations, aimed at producing television segments about UFOs and abduction cases.
• 26:51
  Travis: His book also encouraged other Pascagoula residents to come forward with their own sightings from that same October night after keeping quiet about them for the same 45 years.
• 27:00
  Travis: Wow.
• 27:01
  Travis: This seems a little incongruous.
• 27:04
  Travis: Like he started UFO investigations.
• 27:07
  Travis: Like going out and investigating this, it seems like that would be such a freeing thing to hear other people have that experience, and you would want to share that as well, right?
• 27:17
  Travis: So it just seems weird that he kept that.
• 27:19
  Josh: Yeah, I mean, there's different people out there.
• 27:21
  Josh: I mean, there's some people, I mean, he could have been ashamed depending on the community and the family or in how he was raised.
• 27:27
  Josh: It could have been just something you keep to yourself.
• 27:30
  Josh: I imagine it is freeing.
• 27:32
  Travis: It would have been.
• 27:33
  Travis: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Travis: I mean, he they people knew that he was involved in this.
• 27:36
  Travis: He just didn't want to talk about it.
• 27:37
  Travis: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Travis: But then was like seeking out other people's experiences.
• 27:41
  Josh: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 27:42
  Josh: Hmm.
• 27:43
  Travis: So Pascagoa has since kept the story alive with an annual alien festival.
• 27:47
  Travis: Nice.
• 27:48
  Travis: And Netflix's Files of the Unexplained opens with its Pascagoula episode with a tribute to Parker.
• 27:54
  Travis: And that was part of our research.
• 27:55
  Travis: Yeah, we watched that.
• 27:56
  Travis: In 2019, the city of Pascagoa unveiled an official Mississippi historical marker near the riverbank, and the mayor was there for the unveiling, and the marker formally recognized the encounter as part of the region's history.
• 28:08
  Josh: Cool.
• 28:08
  Josh: That's kind of nice.
• 28:09
  Josh: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Josh: Which I mean happens most of the time.
• 28:13
  Josh: Like the town ends up embracing it, which is while going back to him not wanting to talk about it.
• 28:18
  Josh: I mean, obviously nowadays people are a lot more willing to embrace and recognize more inclusive, you'd think.
• 28:26
  Josh: Right.
• 28:27
  Josh: So the Pascal Goula case gives us about as complete a paper trail as any abduction story on the books.
• 28:33
  Josh: A secret recording of two men alone and afraid, a medical report with matching puncture marks, which is wild, a polygraph examiner who came in mocking the case and then left convinced, two respected researchers willing to put their names behind the sincerity of the witnesses.
• 28:48
  Josh: And then at the same time, we've got a polygraph operator with limited credentials.
• 28:53
  Josh: We have a decline second test, a wartime trauma history that lines up neatly with a psychological explanation, and an Air Force that says one thing publicly while apparently documenting the case in detail behind the scenes.
• 29:07
  Travis: So if you and I got abducted together, which, you know, fingers crossed, that would be ideal for me.
• 29:12
  Travis: If I was ever to get abducted, it would be with my Say it, say it.
• 29:17
  Travis: My best buddy Josh.
• 29:18
  Travis: Yes.
• 29:19
  Travis: I said it.
• 29:20
  Travis: And we both came out with matching puncture marks.
• 29:24
  Travis: Wouldn't we then go and get buddy tattoos?
• 29:28
  Travis: Oh yeah.
• 29:29
  Travis: Right over the top of that?
• 29:30
  Travis: Yeah.
• 29:31
  Travis: Never forget.
• 29:32
  Travis: Like a Calvin and a Hobbes?
• 29:34
  Travis: Yeah.
• 29:34
  Travis: Absolutely.
• 29:36
  Travis: Well.
• 29:37
  Travis: Which one of us is a Calvin?
• 29:38
  Travis: Which one is a Hobbs?
• 29:39
  Travis: Yeah, that would that would break the friendship.
• 29:41
  Travis: Oh, you think so?
• 29:42
  Travis: But maybe Mario and Luigi?
• 29:44
  Travis: Well, I feel like I'm obviously Luigi.
• 29:46
  Travis: Okay.
• 29:47
  Josh: Yep, let's do it.
• 29:50
  Josh: So is there any piece of evidence that moves that needle for you?
• 29:54
  Josh: Whether it happened or did not?
• 29:56
  Travis: No, because and it this is gonna come down to like memory.
• 30:01
  Travis: He didn't share this with anybody.
• 30:04
  Travis: So his details, we don't know if they changed or not, but people's memories are so faulty.
• 30:10
  Travis: And the story that you tell, whether it's true or not, becomes the story.
• 30:14
  Travis: And 45 years is a long, long time.
• 30:18
  Travis: At the very least, he should have written it down like right after it happened.
• 30:23
  Travis: He might have.
• 30:24
  Travis: I don't know.
• 30:25
  Travis: Right.
• 30:25
  Travis: But I mean, you're speculating.
• 30:26
  Travis: All I know is that according to the notes we have, he didn't.
• 30:29
  Travis: He didn't write a book until later and it was on a remembrance of his own account.
• 30:34
  Josh: But I mean, the police wrote it down.
• 30:35
  Josh: There was interviews and stuff like that.
• 30:37
  Josh: So I imagine Sure.
• 30:39
  Travis: In a very clinical way, though, and who knows what those police notes look like.
• 30:42
  Travis: They might have just said crazy person had his butt touched and showed up here covered in his own ejaculate.
• 30:49
  Travis: We don't know.
• 30:50
  Travis: Now you're speculating.
• 30:51
  Travis: You're right.
• 30:52
  Travis: I am.
• 30:52
  Travis: I imagine there was that talk though.
• 30:54
  Travis: If the guy said that it was a female presenting alien and he was naked, that is exactly the kind of thing that people back, especially back then, they would just jump to that conclusion.
• 31:06
  Josh: I mean, we didn't I'll post a link to like the Wi-Fi's video where they talk about where she reached her hand inside of his mouth or his fingers and his nose.
• 31:15
  Josh: Threw his mouth up into his nose and took something out.
• 31:18
  Josh: And before she reached her fingers in one of her fingers, it turned into a probe, like organic tech.
• 31:24
  Josh: I don't know.
• 31:25
  Josh: I don't know.
• 31:26
  Josh: It's wild.
• 31:27
  Josh: But I would I would imagine that if something that traumatic happened, I could see that being seared into your head forever, where the details don't change.
• 31:38
  Josh: You know, I've had really traumatic dreams that I can remember in detail, and me describing it does not change.
• 31:45
  Josh: So something happening in the waking, I imagine it would be similar.
• 31:50
  Josh: Doesn't mean that it all happened as is.
• 31:53
  Travis: Okay.
• 31:53
  Travis: Well, I'm saying it doesn't really push the needle just because it's based on a 45-year-old memory.
• 31:59
  Travis: I do think something happened.
• 32:00
  Travis: I don't know what it was.
• 32:03
  Travis: Maybe it was anotherworldly encounter.
• 32:06
  Travis: I don't know what it would have been instead of something like this.
• 32:10
  Travis: I mean, we're getting maybe we're getting closer, Josh, to me just being all in.
• 32:14
  Travis: And well, maybe not.
• 32:16
  Josh: I do think the Pascagoula abduction is more believable than some of the other abductions.
• 32:22
  Travis: Yeah, like the Walton experience.
• 32:24
  Josh: Yeah, Travis Walton.
• 32:25
  Travis: Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.
• 32:27
  Josh: Yeah, Betty and Barney.
• 32:29
  Travis: I like Betty and Barney, but again, I don't know.
• 32:32
  Travis: I I know that something happened.
• 32:33
  Travis: I know something happened to Betty and Barney.
• 32:35
  Travis: I just don't know what it is.
• 32:36
  Travis: And I know something happened to these two.
• 32:38
  Travis: I know that something happened.
• 32:39
  Travis: This is like a trauma that they experienced.
• 32:42
  Josh: Yeah, and I I don't necessarily believe the other encounters as much or the the stone that he got.
• 32:50
  Josh: Like, where's the stone?
• 32:52
  Josh: No one's probably seen the stone.
• 32:54
  Travis: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Travis: It was called a message stone.
• 32:56
  Travis: There's also a Mormon tie.
• 32:58
  Travis: Ooh.
• 32:59
  Travis: Gimme.
• 33:00
  Travis: Joseph Smith allegedly used what's called a what did he call a sear stone to translate the Mormon plates that eventually became the Book of Mormon, but he wouldn't let anybody see them and hid him under like a hat and then had things.
• 33:17
  Travis: Or like he put a shroud over his head and then was under there with these plates and the sear stone and said he was uh translating them.
• 33:26
  Travis: He had somebody in the room and he would just like read off whatever it was.
• 33:30
  Travis: It's just interesting, it's wild.
• 33:31
  Travis: But yeah, the stones are involved in in that as well.
• 33:35
  Josh: I believe something happened.
• 33:36
  Josh: I don't for sure.
• 33:37
  Josh: I mean, I wasn't there.
• 33:39
  Josh: I wasn't there for the aftermath or the the interviews, but taking the experts at their word, it sounds like they were very convincing that something happened.
• 33:50
  Josh: Like they could not fake what they did.
• 33:52
  Travis: Yeah, and I think the most telling piece is I I don't like it.
• 33:56
  Travis: I don't like that they were secretly recorded against their will, but I mean they didn't know that, and so they were it is possible that they did.
• 34:04
  Josh: I mean, a guy going through five wars probably assumes that someone's listening, or if there's a double-sided glass or something, you know.
• 34:10
  Travis: Maybe.
• 34:11
  Josh: I yeah, I don't know.
• 34:13
  Josh: That alone doesn't change my thought process at all.
• 34:16
  Josh: No.
• 34:17
  Josh: So that is the Pascagoula abduction case.
• 34:21
  Josh: In a nutshell.
• 34:22
  Josh: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Josh: In a nutshell.
• 34:23
  Josh: We'll post the Netflix video that we watched and the Y files.
• 34:27
  Josh: Good old AJ.
• 34:28
  Josh: So you can start your own investigation.
• 34:30
  Travis: And then let us know what you guys think.
• 34:31
  Travis: If you've read either of these books that have been released, that'd be great to hear about.
• 34:35
  Josh: Yeah, send us some fan mail, uh link in the bio.
• 34:38
  Josh: And speaking of fan mail and reviews, we actually have some good ones.
• 34:42
  Travis: Yay! They're all good.
• 34:43
  Travis: Come on, they're all good.
• 34:45
  Travis: Some are just a little more you might say constructive, I would say mean spirited and cruel.
• 34:52
  Josh: So here is one from YouTube.
• 34:55
  Josh: Oh, YouTube.
• 34:56
  Josh: So Mike McCabe.
• 34:57
  Josh: McCab.
• 34:58
  Josh: He said, You guys have the best alien podcast.
• 35:02
  Josh: Whoa.
• 35:04
  Josh: And then he's a hundred percent fire emoji.
• 35:06
  Josh: Hell yeah.
• 35:08
  Josh: They don't just put those on every comment.
• 35:11
  Josh: They don't hand those emojis out.
• 35:12
  Josh: Yeah, no, that's that's special.
• 35:15
  Josh: That's pretty cool.
• 35:16
  Josh: Thanks, Mike McCabe.
• 35:17
  Josh: Yeah, thank you.
• 35:18
  Josh: And then another one, this is a fan mail.
• 35:20
  Josh: He said, I love, love, love, love, love your show.
• 35:24
  Josh: How many is that?
• 35:25
  Josh: Five.
• 35:27
  Josh: Yeah, that's a lot of love.
• 35:29
  Josh: And then he sent another one shortly after, like 20 minutes later, saying, one, may you both continue this informative and thoroughly delightful show forever.
• 35:40
  Josh: Two, may you never be abducted by aliens, Travis, because we won't have anyone to contradict Josh all those times and poke fun at his ideas.
• 35:51
  Josh: I love it.
• 35:52
  Josh: And three, because this show would have to change his name to Aliens Yes, which sounds a lot more boring.
• 35:58
  Josh: It is.
• 35:59
  Josh: I agree.
• 36:00
  Josh: Aliens Yes is there's not much, not much wiggle room there.
• 36:04
  Travis: Well, for one, no, no ambiguity.
• 36:06
  Josh: No.
• 36:07
  Josh: Well, yeah, I hope Travis doesn't get abducted either.
• 36:10
  Josh: If he does, it'll be together.
• 36:12
  Travis: Yes.
• 36:12
  Travis: And it better be.
• 36:13
  Travis: Do you hear me, Aliens?
• 36:15
  Josh: So we can get tattoos.
• 36:16
  Josh: Well, cool.
• 36:17
  Josh: I love that.
• 36:17
  Josh: Thank you so much.
• 36:18
  Josh: Uh, we want more.
• 36:20
  Josh: Yep.
• 36:20
  Josh: Hit us up.
• 36:21
  Josh: All right.
• 36:22
  Josh: Well, that leads us to the fun and potentially embarrassing part of the show where we find out our next episode topic.
• 36:30
  Josh: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 36:32
  Josh: The baseline quiz.
• 36:35
  Josh: Okay.
• 36:37
  Josh: I just opened the quiz.
• 36:39
  Josh: Have you opened it yet?
• 36:41
  Josh: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Josh: Mount Shasta.
• 36:43
  Josh: Uh, love it.
• 36:44
  Josh: Like the soda pop.
• 36:46
  Josh: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Josh: Well, it probably was named after that, right?
• 36:49
  Josh: I think so.
• 36:50
  Josh: I have heard sprinkles throughout my your time on this plane?
• 36:55
  Josh: Yeah.
• 36:56
  Josh: And it's wild.
• 36:57
  Josh: So I'm really excited to hear about this.
• 36:58
  Josh: Okay.
• 36:59
  Josh: But I don't know much.
• 37:01
  Josh: So, first question: where is Mount Shasta located?
• 37:05
  Josh: Is it A Pakistan?
• 37:07
  Josh: B Chile, C California, or D Ghana?
• 37:11
  Josh: Uh, California.
• 37:13
  Josh: I was gonna say California.
• 37:14
  Josh: Do we know?
• 37:15
  Josh: Do you know?
• 37:15
  Josh: Pretty sure.
• 37:16
  Josh: I'm pretty sure it's California.
• 37:17
  Josh: Yeah.
• 37:18
  Josh: All right, next one.
• 37:19
  Josh: How tall is Mount Shasta?
• 37:20
  Josh: Is it A 7,234 feet, B 10,670 feet, C 12,087 feet, or D 14,179 feet?
• 37:33
  Travis: Uh-huh.
• 37:34
  Travis: I don't either.
• 37:35
  Travis: I'm trying to think of it in terms of the tallest peak in Idaho, which is Mount Bora, and that's 13,000.
• 37:41
  Travis: It's like 13,200, something like that.
• 37:44
  Travis: I climbed it once.
• 37:45
  Josh: No, I don't.
• 37:47
  Josh: I got it.
• 37:48
  Josh: Don't start lying on no one's gonna believe anything we say if you lie like that.
• 37:51
  Travis: I did.
• 37:52
  Travis: I climbed it.
• 37:52
  Travis: It's not like that.
• 37:54
  Travis: There's one part of it called Chicken Out Ridge where you have to I cling to the side of a rock.
• 38:00
  Travis: Oh my gosh.
• 38:01
  Travis: It's really, really fucking scary.
• 38:04
  Travis: But other than that, it's mostly a nice easy trail.
• 38:07
  Josh: Well, that means nothing to me because I have never seen that mountain.
• 38:10
  Josh: I don't know the average mountain height.
• 38:13
  Josh: I don't even know the difference between a hill and a mountain.
• 38:15
  Travis: No, nobody does really.
• 38:17
  Josh: So I'm gonna I'm gonna say C 12,087 feet.
• 38:20
  Travis: Okay, I'm gonna say slightly bigger than what I believe Mount Bora is, and that's 14,000.
• 38:26
  Josh: Okay.
• 38:27
  Josh: All right, next one.
• 38:28
  Josh: Geologically, Mount Shassa is uh A giant granite dome, B, burial mound, C, stratovolcano, or D fold mountain.
• 38:41
  Travis: I'm gonna throw out a burial mound.
• 38:43
  Josh: Yeah, it's not a burial mound.
• 38:44
  Travis: Yeah, burial mounds are built.
• 38:45
  Travis: Get out of here, burial mound.
• 38:47
  Travis: Uh giant granite dome.
• 38:50
  Travis: That's cool.
• 38:50
  Travis: You know what a dome means.
• 38:52
  Travis: It's hollow underneath.
• 38:53
  Travis: That's true.
• 38:54
  Travis: I don't know what a fold mountain is.
• 38:56
  Josh: I've never heard of fold mountain stratovolcano.
• 38:59
  Josh: I think Shasta was a volcano.
• 39:01
  Josh: I mean, I would err on a mountain being a volcano most of the time.
• 39:06
  Josh: So I'm gonna say volcano.
• 39:07
  Josh: That's what I'm gonna say too.
• 39:08
  Josh: Next one, what is the name of the legendary subterranean city believed by some to exist beneath Mount Shasta?
• 39:16
  Josh: The A.
• 39:17
  Josh: Agartha, B Telos, C El Dorado, or D.
• 39:22
  Josh: Atlantis.
• 39:23
  Josh: Well, it's not Atlantis.
• 39:25
  Josh: That's in the ocean.
• 39:25
  Travis: Atlantis.
• 39:26
  Travis: And El Dorado was South.
• 39:29
  Travis: Like South America.
• 39:32
  Josh: I mean, unless it's not in California and it's in Chile, but I don't.
• 39:35
  Josh: Um I'm gonna so I for me it's either A or B.
• 39:38
  Josh: I'm gonna say Agartha.
• 39:40
  Josh: That's what I'm gonna say too.
• 39:41
  Travis: Because Talos is a guy in um, or maybe it's Talos.
• 39:46
  Travis: You know what?
• 39:47
  Travis: I'm gonna say Talos.
• 39:48
  Travis: Okay.
• 39:49
  Travis: Talos is a Marvel character.
• 39:52
  Travis: He's a a scroll played by Ben Mendelson.
• 39:55
  Travis: Okay.
• 39:56
  Travis: In the in the movies.
• 39:57
  Josh: So next one.
• 39:58
  Josh: In 1934, a prospector vanished the night before he was scheduled to lead an expedition to what at Mount Shasta?
• 40:06
  Josh: A, a crashed extraterrestrial craft, B, an 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
• 40:13
  Josh: C a deep underground military base, or D, a secret alien headquarters.
• 40:19
  Josh: I feel like was Mount Shasta the one No, that was Alaska.
• 40:23
  Josh: Maybe it was Shasta with the uh Remote View.
• 40:26
  Josh: Remote viewing.
• 40:27
  Travis: Yeah.
• 40:28
  Josh: Yeah.
• 40:28
  Josh: So I think there was an alien base or an alien headquarters inside.
• 40:33
  Josh: But in 1934?
• 40:34
  Josh: Oh yeah, that wasn't they weren't doing that yet.
• 40:37
  Travis: No, not yet.
• 40:38
  Travis: I don't I don't know.
• 40:39
  Travis: I'm gonna say an 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
• 40:42
  Travis: Even though that goes against the ancient burial ground, I'm gonna say like maybe that was Jordan trying to throw me off specifically.
• 40:50
  Josh: I'm gonna say secret alien headquarters.
• 40:52
  Josh: Okay.
• 40:53
  Josh: I'm gonna do it.
• 40:53
  Josh: Bold.
• 40:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:55
  Josh: All right, and then last one, who did Guy Ballard claim to encounter on Mount Shasta in 1930?
• 41:01
  Josh: Or Guy Bayard, if you're French.
• 41:04
  Josh: Is it A, Count of Saint Germain, B Merlin, C Circe?
• 41:13
  Travis: Yeah, Circe, she's a witch in Greek mythology.
• 41:16
  Josh: Or D Hermes Trismegustus.
• 41:21
  Josh: I have no idea.
• 41:22
  Josh: I mean, it seems as though all of these are kind of ridiculous.
• 41:26
  Josh: Hermes?
• 41:27
  Travis: Is Hermes the Hermes?
• 41:28
  Travis: No, Hermes doesn't have a surname.
• 41:30
  Travis: Like the god of messengers.
• 41:33
  Josh: Of flying shoes.
• 41:34
  Travis: Yeah.
• 41:35
  Josh: I'm gonna say Count of Saint Germain.
• 41:38
  Josh: I don't know who that is.
• 41:39
  Travis: I'm gonna say Count of St.
• 41:40
  Travis: Germain too.
• 41:40
  Travis: Lock it out.
• 41:41
  Travis: Okay.
• 41:41
  Travis: I don't think I don't think Merlin works.
• 41:43
  Travis: I and I don't want to sound like an idiot and pick Hermes.
• 41:47
  Travis: But I feel like maybe not picking Hermes makes me sound like an idiot.
• 41:50
  Travis: I'm not an idiot.
• 41:51
  Travis: I learned something.
• 41:52
  Josh: No, you're so smart.
• 41:53
  Travis: Okay.
• 41:53
  Josh: All right.
• 41:54
  Josh: I'm gonna submit.
• 41:55
  Josh: We'll check our accuracy.
• 41:57
  Josh: All right.
• 41:58
  Josh: Oh my fucking God.
• 42:01
  Josh: All right.
• 42:01
  Josh: First one, where is Mount Shasta located?
• 42:04
  Josh: We both said California, USA.
• 42:06
  Josh: That is correct.
• 42:07
  Travis: Yeah.
• 42:08
  Josh: How tall is Mount Shasta?
• 42:10
  Josh: I said 12,087 feet.
• 42:12
  Josh: That is incorrect.
• 42:13
  Josh: I said 14,000, correct?
• 42:15
  Josh: So you got that correct.
• 42:16
  Josh: You see where we're going with this?
• 42:18
  Josh: Geologically, Mount Shasta is, we both said a stratovolcano.
• 42:23
  Josh: Stratovolcano.
• 42:24
  Josh: That is correct.
• 42:25
  Josh: Uh-huh.
• 42:25
  Josh: Next one.
• 42:26
  Josh: What is the name of the legendary subterranean city believed by some to exist beneath Mount Shasta?
• 42:31
  Josh: I said Agartha.
• 42:32
  Travis: I said Telos.
• 42:34
  Josh: And Telos was correct.
• 42:35
  Travis: Correct.
• 42:36
  Travis: Oh my god.
• 42:37
  Josh: I'm going to pass out.
• 42:38
  Josh: In 1934, a prospector vanished the night before he was scheduled to lead an expedition to what at Mount Shasta?
• 42:44
  Josh: I said a secret alien headquarters.
• 42:46
  Josh: What did you say?
• 42:47
  Travis: An 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
• 42:54
  Josh: And it's the 11-mile tunnel of golden mummies.
• 42:57
  Josh: And then lastly, who did Guy Ballard claiming to encounter at Mount Shasta in 1930?
• 43:02
  Josh: It was the Count of St.
• 43:04
  Josh: Germain, which we both said.
• 43:06
  Travis: Oh my God.
• 43:09
  Travis: What time is it?
• 43:10
  Travis: What day is it?
• 43:11
  Travis: Oh my God.
• 43:11
  Travis: What's in my pulse?
• 43:13
  Travis: It is beating out of my chest.
• 43:16
  Travis: So you got 100%.
• 43:17
  Travis: I got a hundred percent, you guys.
• 43:20
  Travis: I got a hundred percent.
• 43:21
  Travis: You've done this once before.
• 43:23
  Travis: Out of 47 times.
• 43:25
  Josh: Yeah.
• 43:25
  Josh: I'm proud of you though.
• 43:27
  Josh: Those odds are that's that's not good odds.
• 43:31
  Travis: You get 100% and you did it twice.
• 43:33
  Travis: I did it twice.
• 43:34
  Josh: Good job.
• 43:35
  Josh: Usually it's a zero.
• 43:37
  Josh: I hate you so much right now.
• 43:39
  Travis: Well, I've earned it.
• 43:40
  Travis: I've earned your hate.
• 43:41
  Travis: Well, I think I'm gonna have to cheat at some point.
• 43:44
  Travis: Okay.
• 43:45
  Travis: I mean, you get one.
• 43:46
  Travis: You're right.
• 43:46
  Travis: I do.
• 43:47
  Travis: You get one cheat.
• 43:48
  Josh: Well, cool.
• 43:49
  Josh: So we're gonna talk about Mount Shasta.
• 43:51
  Josh: I have heard that this is like just an incredibly bizarre hotspot of the weird.
• 43:57
  Josh: And now we know there's mummies.
• 43:59
  Travis: Yeah.
• 43:59
  Travis: Woo! Someone called Brendan Fraser.
• 44:03
  Josh: Yeah, California Mummies.
• 44:05
  Josh: Well, cool.
• 44:06
  Josh: Well, thank you for listening.
• 44:07
  Josh: And thank you, Jordan, for putting the quiz.
• 44:11
  Josh: And thank you for the people who leave fan mail and reviews.
• 44:15
  Josh: Yep.
• 44:16
  Travis: Thank you guys for just being a part of this incredible moment for me.
• 44:19
  Travis: It's alright.
• 44:19
  Travis: I'm just glowing.
• 44:20
  Travis: I'm starting to sweat a little bit.
• 44:22
  Travis: I am so excited about this.
• 44:23
  Travis: Yeah, you look soggy.
• 44:25
  Travis: I could punch the sky.
• 44:26
  Travis: Do I look soggy?
• 44:28
  Travis: Yeah.
• 44:28
  Travis: But like happy soggy.
• 44:30
  Travis: Yeah.
• 44:31
  Travis: Yeah.
• 44:31
  Travis: Yeah.
• 44:32
  Travis: There's two different kinds of soggy.
• 44:33
  Travis: There's probably a lot of there's a lot of different kinds of soggy.
• 44:36
  Josh: There's yummy soggy and icky soggy.
• 44:38
  Josh: And you look yummy soggy.
• 44:39
  Travis: Okay.
• 44:40
  Travis: Okay.
• 44:41
  Josh: Well, that's the show.
• 44:43
  Josh: Yeah.
• 44:44
  Josh: All right.
• 44:45
  Josh: Well, we'll talk to you later.
• 44:47
  Josh: Bye bye.