Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / The Truth of Women and True Crime

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The Truth of Women and True Crime · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you production of I Heart Radio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: So Annie, I know last year one of your favorite
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: movies hoppen this to be Knives Out? Am I correct?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So what is it about movies like that that you love?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I I love that movie because it was really fun.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I felt like everyone was having fun, Like the actors
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: are having fun and the writers are having fun. It
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: was very almost character churish, but still believable. So it
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: almost felt like Clue level in terms of the board game,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: like the way the design was and the way the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: characters where that outfits and everyone had a motive. I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: love guessing like, oh could it have been you? Or
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: it was you? Um, And then you got Daniel Craig's accent,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: which was so fun. And then I thought it was
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: a new take because I'm somebody And as we talked
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: about you know what actually does extrovert versus introvert mean,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I've come to realize, like for me, that new thing
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: is really important. So I felt like Knives Out was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a really new take, fresh take for me when it
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: came to that genre of like the twist in the
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: middle that you didn't want this person to get caught.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: And then you know another twist that that's it wasn't
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: even that in the first place. But then also that
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: it's kind and sweet and it kind of revolves around kindness,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: which is a big, big thing for me. Something that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I love is when these characters are are kind and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: things happened to them that are decent turns out okay, right,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, it's definitely one of those new takes,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: as you said, Ana who Done It? Which I feel
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: like everybody loves that. I know. That's why my grandparents
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: love things like Perry Mason those Coombo shows, because it's
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: all about the who done it? And I think that's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a big part of the genre in general. And yeah,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: this one that's kind of like as you were talking
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: about Clue, you're talking about the game, but in the
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: movie it's a fun take. It's a it's a hysterical like,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: oh my goodness, is a mystery what is this? And yeah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: none of these people are likable, like they literally make
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it that way, where nobody's really likable or overly likable,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: like it's one of the two. It's kind of like
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you all have a motive, but at the same time.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm asking all of this because one of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the big things about these types of movies are the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: fact that it is based on crime. And we're going
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to get into it a little bit later about why
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: we may actually like true crime, and I say we
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: less more more so than me, I guess than you.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: You don't love the true crime stuff as much as like, yeah, mysteries,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: but a part of the true crime indulgence, I guess
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it's the best word, is that you kind of it
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: kind of is a mystery that is unfolding and you're
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: trying to figure it out as well, especially if you
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: don't know what's going on. Unfortunately, because it is real,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: it takes a really dark turn at the very beginning
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: of the tales, I guess, and that makes it completely different.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's what we're gonna talk about today. And again,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: true crime has been around for a very long time
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: from the beginning, I really want to say, and though
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the media and medium has changed quite a bit, true
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: crime has changed and adapted right along with it. Of course,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: if you've listened to our podcast for a while, you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: may have heard our past host talk about women's love
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: for true crime and if you haven't, you should go
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: and check it out. But we thought we could do
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a quick revisit of our love for this and why
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: it's not slowed down at all. But first let's do
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a quick review of the history of true crime. Yes,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: so let's start at what some would call the beginning.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: But as we continue to like pound upon Oh, also
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: see our truth Founds episode um in our Female first episodes.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: History is always a bit tricky, and though we're talking
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: about what's first recorded, it doesn't necessarily mean that it
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: is the actual first. It's just the first that we
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: we know of. So according to definition dot com, true
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: crime is literally just quote based on our describing an
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: actual crime. And to go to what we are going
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: to look at specifically for this episode, we're going to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: use the definition dot net version, which is quote a nonfiction,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: literary and film genre in which the author examines an
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: actual crime and details the actions of real people. The
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: genre has been described as entertainment and as factional, a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: mix of fact and fiction. So yeah, not necessarily as
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: bad as the based on but they do take a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: little bit of narrative and when we come to see
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: these documentaries, So that's why the blend sometimes, so what
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: is the history behind the telling a true crime and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of course absorbing all things true crime again according to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: written records, So what we have for ourselves of what
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: we've seen and not necessarily written in stone, so we
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: may find out more stuff later like actually up, but
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: for now, one of the things that we know is
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: that one of the first series of documentations of crime
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: came from China, written in sixteen seventeen, with a book
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: a title Book of Swindles, and yeah, you can go
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: find more information, but apparently it's like overall context of
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: people taking things or being swindled and manipulated. So there's that.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And within the sixteenth and eighteen centuries we see the
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: pop up of street literature and Europe that featured crime
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: stories and even ballads to talk about a perpetrator's motivation,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: so poems about it, weirdly enough, and this would eventually
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: become the penny press that was accessible for everyone, because
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: before it was only four upper middle class who could
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: afford getting these stories. But it became such a big
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: hit they were able to be like, you know what,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: everybody should read these. Of course, this led to the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: more modern style of true crime I'm in the late
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: nineteenth century, which was written by William Roughhead, a Scottish
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: lawyer who wrote about a murder trial he attended. But
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: To Crime became a more popular in the US in
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and was written by Edmund Pearson, which
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: then became a full on true crime novel, with credit
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: given to Truman Capote, who wrote In Cold Blood, which
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: started this new trend and was even adapted again not
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: too long ago with the movie Capote and the interest
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: quickly grew into TV and viewing, with shows like The
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Thin Blue Line, which included re enactments of the actual stories,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: and specialized news broadcast that capitalized on interviews like the
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Milwaukee serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer interviews with him or about him.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: And now I've grown even more so, including through podcast,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: which is one of the fastest growing medias, and through
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: social media like TikTok and Facebook, right and and you
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and I used to talk about how he would get
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to watch the little clips of the mysteries, and some
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of them maybe horror, like the top ten most Horrible
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: or whatever wh I got because I do like true crime.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I would get snippets of true crime stuff, so it
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: would give me like a three minute summary and then
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of course I would be like wait, I need more
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: and start like so they get you with those little
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: small clips. So you know, So who exactly is fueling
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: this true crime growth that's not decreasing at all? And
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: we talked about it in our Women who Love serial
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Killers as well as in the previous podcast about true crime.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Women make up the larger part of the true crime
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: audience and most of them, if not all, agree that
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: women make up at least seventy five percent of the
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: audience and several say actually eighty five percent of the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: audience who consumed this true crime genre specifically when it
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: comes to podcasts. But it's not just that they're consuming it,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: but it's also that we are the ones creating it
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: as well. With a continued growth of people's true crime obsession,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: we see women's spearheading this growth between podcasts that continue
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: to pick the just of the ever growing listenerships and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the new documentaries that often focus on the citizen of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: details and new details that I've never been seen before.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Women are the ones that's voicing, writing, and producing this
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: new material which my friends are big fans of and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: they'll always give me. Today, I got a text from
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a friend about one of her true crime podcasts that
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: she loves, and I was like, alright, cool, cool, cool um.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: In one report, they show that within the top twenty
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: podcast in the country, the country being the US in
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: this case, at least eleven of them were true crime
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and out of that at least seven were hosted by women.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So I was wrong in my assessment and truth hounds,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I guess the most famous ones that I think of
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: our right other than the one big one which I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: know we're going to talk about. And though the amount
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of women and men authors for books are about the same,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: it is women who dominate true crime podcast even to
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the point is brought in new ways of consuming or
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: crossing over, including makeup tutorials, which we will talk about
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: more in a little bit. But six are hard to
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: come by for consumers and creators. What we do know
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: is that it isn't going away anytime soon, right, And
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure why the statistics are so hard
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to get to because people are trying to figure it
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: out themselves. Many want to know, but that is the reason.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think they want to know the why, and not
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: necessarily the numbers, just saying and since we are talking
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: about women and true crime, and we wanted to take
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a minute to talk about some of the key women
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: who have pushed this growth or even started it. And
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: we're gonna start with and I don't know German, I'm
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: gonna try my best, so don't yell at me, Angel
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Christine vest Fallon, how I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: We couldn't start this conversation without talking about one of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: the first women writers of true crime that we know of.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Once again, putting this every time, We'll say it every time.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So Angel Christine Vestfellin was a German writer who was
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: not afraid to break through all the rules and all
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the ceilings that she could. And as we talked about
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in our episodes on women or writers, many felt that
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: women should stick to certain types of writing and considered
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: it vulgar when they stepped outside of that preferred realm,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: as in fact of as Fellon wrote her true crime story,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: or rather a drama that depicted the Charlotte Corday story
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of stabbing Jean Paul Murat, and we talked about them
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: when we were talking about female assassins is. She was
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: one of them. And once it was discovered that was
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: written by her, because she was going on to pen
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: names and she'd been writing different things trying to pretend
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: to be a man. But it soon came out that, oh,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: she's not a man. And when the men found out,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: like Johann Wolf Game one Goat, they were not pleased.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: He even stated, quote, the worthy author of this tragedy
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: of Charlotte Corday would have better spent her time knitting
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: a warm underskirt for the winter than meddling this drama.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So he was very displeased and was like, stick to
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: your underwear woman, which is like what. But of course
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: that didn't stop her, and she made a really big
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: impact and continued on at a writer and won several awards.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So him right, yes, what but winter under skirt? I
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: don't know about that. And looking in the world of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: us true crime, which is a chunk of the content
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: we couldn't skip over, and Rule one of the first
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: noted women in the true crime genre. Rule is best
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: known for her work on serial killer Ted Bundy titled
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: The Stranger Beside Me, and she was also known as
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: being a friend of Bundy who worked with her for
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: her book, but her career, much like ves Flin, was
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: met with skepticism and disdain, even though her own life
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: experiences included working in law enforcement and writing. She penned
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: much of her work under the pen name of Andy
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Stack for publications and True Detective, where she was told
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: that writing true crime was quote no job for a woman.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: But she continued and published many true crime novels and books. Right,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: So she was really big. And when we say that
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: she was friends with Bundy, they actually had met in
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: college before he was free, so she knew him. And
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: so after this fact, she went and interviews and went
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and visited him and got a lot of his story.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So yeah, to say she had a firsthand knowledge. Yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and it keeps growing in different mediums including uh, documentaries
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: like Making a Murder. Did you ever watch the Sandy
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I don't think you did, right, Yeah, of course I
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: ate it up. So it's a ten part series on
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Netflix which was created by Mariar Demos and Laura Richiardi.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: So the documentary took ten years to make and it
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: started in two thousand five, and after its actual initial
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: release later in eighteen, I believe it had at least
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: over nineteen million views in the first five weeks, and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: not surprisingly this prompted petitions of new trials, new cases,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and outcries of deeper look at the cases and even
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: like when after all of the prosecutors in law enforcement,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: it was not pretty um. And of course it also
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: came out with a part two which kind of does
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: where are they now? Kind of situation with a very
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: inconclusive end because I don't know if there's been a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: second trial. I need to go back and look, but
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: it's been a minute that I haven't heard anything, and
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's really been new information since then,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: just a lot of implications. Documentary is not the only
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: one we've moved on to our world yes of podcasts,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: so Cereal is often credited as one of the first
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: true crime podcast although Criminal Generation, Why, and Sword and
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Skill all proceeded that. I think it's just Serial got
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: this really big popularity, and it got it started in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the beginning, yeah, of this huge podcast genre. Of course,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: all of those other three are very popular still so
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that it's not going any where. None of these are
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: going anywhere. But Seial is credited in its innovative way
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: of investigative storytelling, originating as a spinoff of This American Life,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: which is part of the NPR series Reporter Sarah Kanig
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: opened up a whole new world of long form audio
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: story that allowed for the audience to look beyond just
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: news clips and sad stories to becoming what is now
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: known as armchair detectives, with narratives of good and bad
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: guys and possible miscarriage of justice. And it's still talked
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: about today and criticized. There's a lot of criticism and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: arguments based on serial and what they brought out. As
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: one true crime writer and podcaster stated, quote, Cereal is
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: the most important because it went viral. It got into
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the zeitgeist and introduced many people to podcasts and got
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: them hooked. Yeah. I want to say that it's one
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of the big beginnings of podcasts. Yeah. I agree, it's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: one of the first. I listen too, because everyone was
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: listening to it, everyone was talking about it, and it
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: was It's interesting because it brought in a lot of
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: voices and they did like a lot of things that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: now seem kind of silly just because it's been parodied.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: It's not silly at all, but because so many podcasts
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: kind of emulated this formula, of you know, I did
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the drive and I timed how long it took and
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, and like it did bring out all
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: these armchair detectives. And I know people still talking about
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that first season of Cereal today, like the real people involved,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and that is something in yeah, my YouTube videos I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: watched where they're like this this what's this mystery? And
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: it's inexplicable and then people are trying to figure out
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: they want to know. And I do think Cereal was
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a big part of that because it would always end.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I remember the music so well. It would always end
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and it'd be like, well, that's the question for the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: next episode, and he'd be like, did so, well they did. So.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: If we let's talk about this question of why, which
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: we've kind of been discussing some reasons of why do
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: people and especially women love true crime. If we're looking
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: at the depth of true crime and how long it's
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: been around, it's not surprising that women were ready to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: fall in love with every form of true crime, especially podcast.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: But again why. There are so many reasons people give
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to answer that question to the reason why women find
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: it so enticing, but the research is fairly slim. Not
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: for the lack of trying, as we mentioned, but more
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: so that getting information hasn't been really that easy. Pew
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Research and others have used the typical methods of questionnaires
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and surveys, but with the fact that listeners vary, as
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: well as the fact some may not even know outside
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: of the you know, I just like it, Um, maybe
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I've never really asked the question. They just like it.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: The reasons are everywhere right, and there is a lot
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of stuff that people talk about with different reasons why
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: they like it. Well, I saw I've seen a lot
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of personal blogs about their explanations or people trying to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: find out and so they talk about the ones that
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: resonate with them, and many vary. But again, yeah, these
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: are the common ones, I would say, and one is
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: one of the big ones. To learn how not to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: be a victim? Say, I do not want to be
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: caught up in this. How do I stop this from happening? Um?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And many women state they want to learn what went
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: wrong and how not to be that victim. One report
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: states women quote have claimed that consuming true crime content
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: led to conscious change and behavior to ensure safety, for instance,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: double checking door locks and carrying maize and pepper sprays, which, yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: these sales went up the more they like we see
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the consuming of um and then that women are preparing
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to know how to get out of dangerous situations like
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: kidnapping by learning defensive tactics from the past crimes. Yeah,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm very aware about trunk safety, how to kick out lights.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I have like those things ready to go, how to
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: hold your keys. Of course, this is also just being
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: in general and knowing that dangers await them, and by
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: consuming such horrific stories it might help them to analyze
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and be aware of the psychopaths out in the world.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: It's a way of learning motives and learning psychological factors
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: to avoid. So kind of that's just that, Oh, this
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: is the type of guy. Oh yeah, definitely the white
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: dude who seems too clean, a little bit off. Don't go,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: don't go right, And that reminds me of what we
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: talked about in our kind of Science of Fear episode.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: And why do women like horror movies where it's a
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: similar thing. It's like you're learning in your mind what
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to avoid. And I like there was a comparison from
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: one paper I read that was it's like gossip in
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a way, like gossip functions in a similar manner where
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I'm learning based on this gossip that
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I will get gossiped about if I do this thing.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, horror and true crime falls under that
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: as well, where we do feel like, Okay, I am
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: learning from this what not to do or what to
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: do um to keep myself safe. And unfortunately, a lot
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: of times the victims and needs are women. I that's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: from my anecdotal understanding, but I think it is true
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: just from crime statistics we have. Yeah, yeah, Well, honestly,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the facts of the matter, women are very unlikely to
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: be killed, Like we talked about the fact that how
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: how they will be killed and who will kill them,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and typically it's the men who die violently essentially, that's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: why all the statistics have shown. So it's kind of surprising,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: but these fears come out of the way women die.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So as we talked about whether it's horrific abuse or
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: all of those things, rape as a big fear factor
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: in most of our conversations, and we've seen this, but
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: that's also that intrigue of when we see crimes against
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: women is usually typically horrifically violent and therefore publicized. In
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: such a bigger manner than just drive by shootings and
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: or yeah, accidental deaths like car accidents and stuff. It
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: is typically that level. So the statistics show that men
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: should be more afraid of being killed, but they're not,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: oddly enough. But again, like I said, the violence in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: crime against women and then the violence when it comes
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: to serial killers who they've picked for victims, which are
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the ones that are more publicized and highlighted, is what
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: causes that fear. And we'll talk about it in the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: second right now, But watching those horrific stories, yeah, and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that can kind of go to morbid fascination. And I
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: think probably everyone listening this can relate to if something
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: happens in your city that catches a bunch of attention,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're getting um text and from
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: everybody that's like, do you have pepper stray, don't wear
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: your hair in a pony saale, don't do this at
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: a certain time, And it kind of it makes sense,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: but it's also like, compared to the ways that I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: could die, it's just that it's so horrifying and it
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: catches the attention we did our women in Revenge episode,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I read a really beautiful essay, painful essay written by
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: somebody whose family I believe had been murdered, and she
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: was just saying like she hated it, but she couldn't
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: deny it was intimate, like that was it felt like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: this was such a an act, like we're forever impacted
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: my life, this person forever impacted and changed my life,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and I can't. It's really hard to separate yourself out
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: from that, and it's hard to not feel like you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: were chosen or something, which we've talked about that with
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: victim blaming, and that's just part of human nature. Another
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: reason people give for their love of true crime and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: women in specific is warriorism. Um. And yeah, that's just
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: again human nature, just kind of being nosy. That's like
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: a really big morbid bit of like like oh, I
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: don't want to say this, but I'm very intrigued and
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I need to know what happened, right, um And yeah,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: that's it's obviously oversimplifying things, but yes, for both men
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and women alike, there is that sort of train wreck
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: factor that is deeply rooted in so many of us,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: just needing to know and not being able to turn away,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: like I gotta know how this ends, or like you
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you can't, it's almost like a freeze thing. Or you're
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: just like I can't. I can't. If you and you
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: get a small tipita that information, you're like, wait, wait,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: well I need to know more, and for me, like
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I will watch something and I need to know where
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: they are today? Are they in prison? Are they? If
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it doesn't conclusively it just ends with an arrest and
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: maybe a trial, I need to know, well, are they
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: rotting in jail or what has happening? Are they sorry?
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Have they admitted it? Like there's a mini of moments
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: where I have to like finish it out of course, yes,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: without watching and inabilities just to turn away. There is
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: that level of fear that's what intrigues people. Yes, fear
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of the unknown or the possibility of having something violent
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: happened in your life. And I actually just had a
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: really horrible dream and I told you about it a
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: little earlier, and I'm not gonna go into it, maybe
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: because we are researching this and so it's in my brain,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: but yes, stuff that just made me wake up and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: it feels so nauseous and shaken by it, like it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the worst thing that I can think of possibly happening,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: but not because of anything other than my dog was involved,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I will say that, and so my dog is very
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: precious to me, and it was horrifying some of the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: things that just came into my head. But it is
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that fear. Some research state that is out of fear
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that women listen and want to know about the situation again,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: which could relate to how to care for themselves, but
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that it's also a way of getting second hand relief
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and not being a victim. So being able to say
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that's I've never experienced that makes you feel okay, And
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of that level of So. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: just had recently had a really horrific death in Atlanta
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that happened in one of our more popular parks, and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know where the case is gone, but it
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: definitely brought out all of the oh my god, there's
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a serial killer text and notes and message boards like
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: it's it's been happening. And the first thing I thought
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: was because I believe the woman was white. I was like,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not a white woman. I'm good. Like there was
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: this little fear like moment of relief, which I shouldn't be.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: There should not be, but knowing like the history of
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: what serial killers their patterns are. You know that there's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: like race is a big factor typically typically in all
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of this, and that's that part, but still want to know.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: But there is that second hand of relief, which is
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: awful because someone died and this needs to be told
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and we need to get justice for this woman. But
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: there is not fear, like a moment of like glad
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that didn't happen to me. Yeah, you know, yeah, And
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: we talked about that a little also in our Fear
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: episode Why women Love Horrmonies, which is something that's just
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: fast me And I've thought about this idea of you stress,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: which is a type of stress that is like good,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: but I think for a lot of women because we
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: do live with these fears. We do live with when
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I go outside, you know, I'm thinking about, um, the
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: people on the street you did, where where are my keys?
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And what are my exits and all those things. Um,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So I think there is something about watching something and
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: being able to relate but also be separate and like
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: kind of release some of that stress that's just built
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: up in you and you don't realize how much is
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: built up in you. I do think that's part of
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: it of like you were already feeling these nerves around
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: this and the fear around this every day, and to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: watch something is like a way to release all of
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: that built upright fear, and it'll it will still build
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: up again, but it's like kind of just a method
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: of not ignoring it, but also being able to be
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: distant from it and experience it and release some of it. Right.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I think another reason, uh sympathy for the devil, and
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: this would be more related to our past episode on
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: women who love serial killers um, and that some people
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: are women are intrigued by the perpetrators background and how
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: they were created, the origin story. Um. I think that's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: also part of few nature is how could someone do this?
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Like asking that question? And there are some that believe
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: because women are thought to have more empathy than men,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that women connect on a different level, especially for the victim,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: which makes the stories more relevant and personal for women
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: right in a lot of the way, they wanted to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: see that that justice has happened, so instead of having
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: like I think Cereal was a little different because it
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: questioned things, but there was so many other true crime
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: like things with Ted Bundy and things with the Nice Stalker,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: there was endings. There, there was a conclusive this happened.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: So to have that is also a different level like
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: oh my god, thank goodness, we are so glad these
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: victims you know, had justice or hopefully they do get justice.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: But that's also part of that um and yeah, and
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: with that again, the puzzles or the detective work behind
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the series. Some experts state it involves a level of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: working out the mystery, stating quote, women like to untangle things.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: They think a lot. I'm not saying women don't, but
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: they like to work things out often think about things
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: quite deeply. And obviously there's a big aspect of that
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and true crime, especially in unsolved cold case type documentaries
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: or podcasts. So there's a lot to think about and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to talk about, right And I know that's what a
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: lot of the different podcasts hosts are able to do, like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: especially when there's more than one host and they kind
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: of work it out together and talk it through with
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: each other. There's a lot of that trying to unravel
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: this mystery. And for me, yeah, there's a lot of
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: income fleet and unsolved cases, and I like going down
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that rabbit hole as well. I will start researching individuals.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Of course, I don't go down like journalists, investigative journalists
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: who create who are able to unsolve mysteries themselves and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: do the I'm gonna drive here to hear I'm not
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: that guy hard, but I will start looking and be like,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder what this person was doing. I wonder what
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: that person is up to now, Like there's a lot
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: of questions that I'm like, I wonder if I can
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm also the same person in horror movies, like
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: the whole who done it? Or who's the killer type
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: of thing that I'm like, I know so and so
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: or this is the twist. Of course, this is the twist.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I'm that person feeling like I need to know that's
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: just me though, of course there's so many other reasons noted,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: but like we said earlier, there are a lot of
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: speculation about the why, with a lot of answers and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: some assumptions behind it. But there's tons and for yourself
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: and maybe a completely different reason, and even to the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: point that they've yet said things like escapism as one
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: of the things and yeah, kind of like horror movies,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you're like, why would you torture yourself with this for
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: your able to remove yourself a little bit from the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: horrors of your own horrors by other people's horrors, which
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: is kind of sad. That's it feels weird to say
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: out loud. Yeah, yeah, um, but yeah. There's just so
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: many things we talked about that I feel like are
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: parts of human nature, and they might be parts we
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: don't like thinking about too deeply, right it is? And yeah,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I have been, as Samantha knows, everyone knows, I've been
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: on a fan fiction kick for that there was a mystery.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: There was a mystery involved that there was somebody it
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: was guilty, and I was telling everybody, I'm like, it's
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: this person and this is what should happen. And then
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: we got a text when she found out Yeah, I
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: was right. But it's kind of that same thing of
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: like Okay, I want to learn to pick up on
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: these clues of like Okay, this person is not trustworthy
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and avoid them. For myself, I think they a lot
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: of things going on in our love for like trying
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to figure out who did it. Who's the worst types
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: of people? I know, I know it was him. We've
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: talked about several forms of true crime content and as
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: our access in different forms of media continue to grow,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: so does the amount of content obviously, so from the
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: beginning of true crime there have been several different forms
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and it does continue to grow, and in fact, since
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the origins of Cereal, there are hundreds, if not thousands
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: of true crime types of content. Are are types of
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: media out there to consume, and yes, many of those
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: are on our own network. In the last two years alone,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: it has grown substantially. Podcasting has become one of the
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: biggest formats for true crime, and maybe as something to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: you with the fact that it is in this genre
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: that women have some level of control. According to one report,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: over the host in the genre are women, and these
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: podcasts are more likely to be produced by women as well.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: And as we've talked about and several episodes, that's pretty
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: different and the rest of well, and a lot of
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the podcasting community where it does look like it's it
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: sounds I guess mostly men, mostly men. Yeah, And to
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: be fair, according to some past research, again it's all fluctuating.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: The people who listen to most are men, not necessarily
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: about true crime, but in any podcasts in general, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: listenership is typically leaning towards men, not too much. It's
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: not huge. It's almost like maybe six most are men.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: But again that may absolutely have everything to do with
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: children in the car and or when we are, yeah,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: doing childcare versus you know, stuff like that makes a
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: lot of affecting and who's work and who's doing commuting
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: and what. But yeah, and also the fact that yeah,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: most of the format it shows more men are hosts
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: than they are there are women, but yeah, not necessarily
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: with this one. Yeah. Interesting And also shout out to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: the show Morbid Um for shouting us out right. Thank you.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: My one of my best friends, Katie, who's been on
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: this show. She listens to that show and I got
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: a very excited text from her and she's like, oh
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: my gosh, this shout at out stuff. I ever told
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: you all my favorite true crime podcast. I was like,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: so cool, and I meant I had to start it. Yeah.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: They are very fun. Yes, um, yeah, so thank you.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: But all of this to say that doesn't mean books
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: are going anywhere. Um, But there's just multiple avenues of
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: entertainment and that extends to true crime now and yeah
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: it does. It has extended into so much more than books, right,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: There are new forms, including social media forums like TikTok
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and Facebook, which I just talked about Facebook and like
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: my own exploration and now I get it. Often it
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: pops up with like look at this. I'm like, yep,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: there it is. And there are a lot more to that.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Many are sharing snippets of horrific crimes and two minute
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: clips or past clips or past crimes. Uh, and they're
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: gaining traction for it. So essentially having a person having
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the green screen of TikTok and like plastering all these articles.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Why they're talking about it in two minute scripts and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: saying click to like and the first part two like
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: they are doing it um and it was working and
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: as in fact, there was a specific post in which
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: a woman posted about her sister's murder and disappearance which
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: led to the arrest of our stepfather and this case
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: is ongoing and this happened on TikTok. I actually saw it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I was like, is this is this real? To the
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: pot down, like is this scripted or is this real?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: She actually has a post where she's walking down the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: woods and she had a little written blurb about essentially
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: if you know much about TikTok, they said, uh, they
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: do a little video. They do a little clips and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: they do they maybe they have a song or audio,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: but essentially it sinuated, Uh, your stepfather acting like he
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened to my sister, but knowing that
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: he murdered her or something or he was the cause
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: of it. And then there It's to me so erie
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: when I see things like that. But and then hurdly,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: if you go onto our post later on, it pops
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: up with y'all did it, We did it? Thank you
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: so much. My stepfather has been arrested, and I'm like,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: what So to the point that things like that have
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: been happening, of course, there's a lot of backlash with that,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and we'll kind of talk about it a little bit later.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: But it's showing things like TikTok and new forms that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: are jumping onto this type of genre and content that
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: it works, and it's gaining lots of traction still. But again,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: what does that mean for this genre in general? Yeah? Well,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: one thing you were telling about, I've never heard of this.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Um A different type of avenue for true crime is
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the true crime makeup tutorial, which I thought was like
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: addressing yourself like a zombie or something. But I was
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: way off. So um Bailey Serian and I hope I'm
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly has been accredited with this new content.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So she has a sub series within all of the
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: content she makes called Murder, Mystery and Makeup, and she
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: talks about different cases while as she puts it, quote
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: do my makeup? Um, and it's worked. After she began
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: this new segment, she went from one hundred thousand YouTube
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: subscribers to almost five million. Of course this was after
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: two years, but still very very rapid growth, huge growth.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Um and began a new trend in the YouTube makeup
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: tutorial world. And why does that work? Well? One do
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: year said quote learning about these awful time So watching
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: someone do their makeup makes it a little bit more
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: palatable as opposed to the regular true crime documentary. Right,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and researchers agree for many, especially with the younger audience,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: which is the tutorial has really hit that youthful and
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: I say youth becaus I'm like, what is this, what
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: is happening? What what are you kids doing? Um? But
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: having makeup being a buffer, having someone doing their makeup
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: being a buffer of retelling of some horrible crime has
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: made it more palatable now don't get me wrong. Apparently
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: in the series, they're not necessarily talking about brands, are
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: not telling you anything other than telling you the story
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: while they're putting their makeup on, so you can kind
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of see their technique without hearing what they're doing specifically
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: about makeup, but here the story at the same time,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: so you can kind of concentrate on what's they're putting
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: on their face. Um and yeah, and it's grown and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: crossed over into the world of TikTok as well, just
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: again in shorter versions. It seems more like clickbay to me,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: but you know, I don't know much about this, which
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: helps to dire the audience to the YouTube channel to
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: give the full story. But it's a whole interesting tactic
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and it's been around and there's been many people and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: many a YouTubers and social media stars who have jumped
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: on board and doing this as a part of their
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: niche I guess um and again it's worked to the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: point that there are some that do requests. So there
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: was one star who will give Google I guess access
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Google forms for people to fill out and it could
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: be requests to talk about this horrific crime, or it
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: can be requests from the victims families to highlight unsolved cases.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: So you know, some of these things are like okay, cool, cool,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: but it does kind of come back to the problem
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: like ideas like is this helping or hurting? I don't understand,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And that kind of comes down to the problems of
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: true crime, and I think that's partially a bigger conversation
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: of why people are rec you, why are women doing this?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Are women okay? Essentially cling the question, um, and yes, again,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: there are some problems within this genre and this decensitizing
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: of these horrific crimes, which include some say that part
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of these are kind of coppaganda essentially a compaganda for
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: those who may not know that term is propaganda for
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: enhancing cops or police and hero making them heroes and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: idolizing them essentially. Of course, I'm not saying there's anything
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: wrong with law enforcement necessarily. There We've had conversations about
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: you know, police and reformation and or abolishment before, and
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: if you want to listen to that, that's a whole
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: different episode. But there's a conversation about whether or not, uh,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: these stories actually elevate cops in a really too good
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: of a manner. Or maybe in a bad manner. It's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: kind of both of those things, is according to which
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: one you look at. If you look at the night stalker,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of big conversations of the fact that
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: how the police were heroes and and don't get me wrong,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: we need police to solve crimes like that, please please,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: please know that. But there's a conversation of who is
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: being fetishized in here are the heroes getting more credit
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: than you know, the lawyers, sold whatever whatnot. So there's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: a big competition about that and again complicated as a
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: whole different conversation that we can have. But then there's
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: also the conversation of our way of doing it, and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: we're we're demonizing cops as well. So you see things
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: like making a murderer did not shine a good light
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: on those investigators. Don't get me wrong. Once again, I
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: would also agree justice is meaning to get the right
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: person and to ask the right questions and to not
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: violate someone's constitutional rights. Obviously, and maybe we need to
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: have a conversation about what the conversation looks like today
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and compared to when it was created. Again, a different conversation.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: But all of that to say is They're like, there's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit of problematic background for both of those things,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: like who is doing what and what is the message
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: being said? So with these true crime genres, it is
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: disproportionately based on white victims and typically white women, and
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: kind of has that whole level of who is being
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a victimized, who's seen as a victim versus who's seen
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: as a lesser case. I guess a lot of the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: conversation about why is it that white women are the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: ones who are focused on and most likely to be
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: seen when it comes to crimes, and we see people
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: of women of color are dismissed typically their crimes are
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: not as seen. And again, who is it focusing on?
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: And yet again we talked about this before, the romanticizing
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: of perpetrators and how they became infatuations such as the
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Ted Bundy story. It becomes such a weird, fintish sizing
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: horrible man, same way as a night soccer, same way
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: as Jeffrey Dahmer. They ended up all having groupies. This
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: is kind of this level of like, oh, what are
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: we doing with this narrative? And then yeah, what are
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: we doing to the victims families? Are we actually holding
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: any kind of real justice to telling their story or
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: read traumatizing and honestly feeding off of their trauma. So
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of conversation of what is this
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: But the one thing we know, it's not going away, no, no,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: And I think there's so much we can pick apart here,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And it's just interesting how many aspects of humanity and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: and sexism and racism that you can kind of see
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: in this one genre where you can talk about like, well,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: why are women empathizing or perhaps fromanticizing perpetrators and why
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: are women making up a big chunk of the audience. Like,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to be teased apart and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: all of this, and we've touched on, touched on it,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: but you know, as always, more research is needed. Also,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you listeners. If you
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: like true cry, we want to know why. You can
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: emails at stuff d your mom Stuff at I heeart
• 42:03
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• 42:04
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've Never
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks, it's always you're a super producer, Christina,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff One
• 42:12
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• 42:14
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