Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Erik Summers, Chief Medical Officer at Atrium Health Wake Forest Baptist

Transcript

Erik Summers, Chief Medical Officer at Atrium Health Wake Forest Baptist · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

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  - This is Laura Deida with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
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  I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Eric Summers,
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  chief Medical Officer at Atrium Health,
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  wake Forest Baptist, part of Advocate Health.
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  Dr. Summers, it's a pleasure
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  to have you on the podcast today.
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  - Yeah, thanks. Thanks for inviting me.
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  - Now, I'm looking forward to our discussion.
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  I know there's so much happening in healthcare right now,
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  and in particular, it's a fascinating time for clinical care
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  to just see some of the different trends and,
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  and the way technology has evolved as well.
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  But before we dive into that discussion,
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  can you tell us a little bit more
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  about yourself and your background?
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  - Yeah, sure. I, um, I'm a hospitalist by training.
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  I've been in, uh, medicine as a physician for 24 years, uh,
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  and um, through my, uh, hospitalist experiences I got into,
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  uh, administration and system change,
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  and I've been CMO here for six years,
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  and, um, it's been a great experience, so.
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  - Well, that's excellent and,
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  and definitely, um, you know, really cool to see
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  how you've taken your career from a hospitalist now
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  to leading, um, you know, a team of physicians
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  as a chief medical officer.
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  Uh, I'm wondering, you know, especially given, um,
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  so much has, has been changing over the past few years,
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  could you talk about one change in particular
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  that you have made that has yielded some great results?
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  - Yeah, I, um, we've done a lot of good things here,
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  but I, uh, there's one that is, um, the one
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  that really has stood out for me.
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  And it's, um, because I've seen how it's impacted our staff,
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  and that is, um, we've put a lot of work into, uh,
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  workplace violence and initiatives to,
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  uh, mitigate that.
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  And, uh, the reason that's top of mind is, um, you know,
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  we didn't pre covid.
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  I mean, it was important, but we didn't have, um,
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  a structure like we do now.
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  And, and so patients were, we're about patients,
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  patient care, needs of the patient come first.
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  That's always kind of been my mantra, mantra,
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  and it still is, but,
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  but, uh, post covid, I realized that our staff are just
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  as important and keeping them safe,
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  supporting them is critical.
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  And so we have a process now in place with behavioral alerts
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  and, and more importantly,
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  administrators like myself when there is an issue
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  at the bedside in a patient who is, um, able
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  to make their own decisions
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  and making, uh, poor decisions with regards
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  to physical violence or, uh, uh, mental violence, you know,
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  myself or one of my colleagues will go to the bedside and,
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  and talk to that patient and, and, um, set expectations.
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  You know, we care about our patients, but,
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  but we, we have to support our staff.
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  And, um, and the the thing that's really gratifying
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  that I didn't realize until doing this, uh, was
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  how important that was for our staff.
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  You know, the perception, well that, um, you know, the,
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  the leaders don't understand or they don't care,
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  but when you're at the bedside, uh, and you're there
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  and they, and they see that we're a team
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  and we're gonna, we're gonna support each other,
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  that has just been very gratifying, uh,
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  because, um, uh, this is a tough job.
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  It's, medicine is very tough,
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  but, um, you know, doing things to, to help our staff is,
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  um, uh, is just the right thing.
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  And so I'm just really proud of that.
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  I'm proud of what we've done and,
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  and actually our work, our, our number
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  of workplace violence events has dropped
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  by 20% since we did this initiative over the last,
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  uh, two years.
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  And we have, um, we have a workplace violence leader.
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  So yeah, that just is something that I'm, uh, very proud of
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  for, for my organization.
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  - That's amazing to hear. And as you mentioned,
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  such an important, uh, aspect
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  of leading the clinical teams is making sure, you know,
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  people feel safe in, in their actual protocols
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  and measures in place, um, so they know what to do if,
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  if violence does occur.
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  Um, so, you know, that seems like something I hear day in
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  and day out from healthcare executives is they're thinking
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  through, you know, top priorities is being able to, um,
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  create those programs in respond appropriately.
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  Um, so thank you for laying that out for us.
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  - One quick thing I wanna throw in,
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  if there's one thing I could recommend
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  for every organization out there is, is to emphasize,
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  have your leaders be present at the bedside.
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  Have your CMO, your CO your president come to the bedside
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  for those, those cases that,
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  that makes a world of difference.
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  That was a game changer for us.
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  - Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.
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  You know, it, it really, um,
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  the team feels the support from you, your presence and,
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  and the leadership's presence there.
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  And from your perspective, you know,
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  when you're going into those situations, what is it that,
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  like for you, how do you really, um, I guess,
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  approach those situations so you can diffuse them?
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  Yeah,
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  - So yes, it's not something I learned in medical
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  school, that's for sure.
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  But, um, and the first few times it was a little nerve
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  wracking, but now since I've, I've become a, um,
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  experienced at it, what I'd say is that, um,
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  it's actually one of the most enjoyable things I do.
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  And it's not just for our staff,
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  but when I walk in that room, usually I'm,
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  people are saying, watch out.
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  This is gonna be tough. Do you want security?
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  Do you want, you know, and and I almost always say no.
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  And, and what I've learned from these crucial conversations
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  are that, um, patients are, when they're angry,
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  when they're doing things like that, we, you know,
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  physical violence, a a large proportion of the,
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  of the issue is, uh, a patient doesn't know what's going on
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  and ha and, and wants to know, uh, the issues why they're,
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  why they're there, their treatment plan.
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  And the other is they want to be heard, they want
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  to be acknowledged, their viewpoint.
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  And so I often, the first thing I've gotta do,
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  I've gotta connect as a human.
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  I, I need them, I need patients to see my eyes and,
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  and know that I care about them
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  because I do even, even in those situations.
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  And so I care and we connect and then I listen,
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  and then I give the perspective of the hospital and,
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  and then have maybe some difficult conversations that
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  this can't continue.
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  But, um, we want to support, you know,
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  we wanna support the patients as much as our staff.
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  And I will tell you 95% of the time that works, that
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  that's, uh, that's the secret recipe.
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  I'm not gonna lie, 5% of , there's, there's nothing
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  that I can that that works.
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  Uh, but people wanna be heard, they wanna be respected,
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  they want you to listen to 'em,
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  and they, they want you to care
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  and they want you to communicate.
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  And that's what I try to do. And, and, and
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  because it's successful
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  because of staff appreciates that, it's actually one
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  of the more enjoyable things I do now.
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  - That's really amazing to hear.
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  And, and certainly, you know, um, I,
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  I appreciate you giving those pointers.
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  'cause like you said, it's not something
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  that always comes naturally
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  or that, you know, has really been taught in the traditional
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  medical schools, but having that ability to take, um,
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  real steps that are meaningful
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  and connect to patient's, person to person, um, and,
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  and deescalate those situations,
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  I can imagine those wonders.
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  And also, uh, like you said, supports the staff as well.
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  So that, that's really cool to hear.
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  Now, what are some of the other top trends
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  that you're following healthcare right now?
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  What's really top of mind for you,
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  - For you?
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  Well, boy, there's a, there's a lot of things, um, you know,
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  uh, from the acute aspects.
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  I mean, you know, uh, workforce sur shortages in healthcare
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  and, and how we, we keep our staff together, certainly
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  what I talked about with workplace violence,
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  that's a component of, um, you know, improving staff,
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  staff satisfaction.
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  But, um, you know, reducing that, that, um,
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  that labor that is, um, um, you know, locums,
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  um, we, we need to keep our, we need to have staff here
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  that is, is connected and engaged and, and with our mission
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  and, and, you know, for not just our culture,
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  but for, you know, cost containment.
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  And so that, that's something we've been working on and,
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  and we've been making strides on.
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  But, um, you know, other things, you know, kind
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  of the latest artificial intelligence, you know,
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  we're certainly are looking at that and,
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  and how, how can ai, you know, change medicine,
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  how can it transform our operations, make us more efficient,
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  make us make the patient experience better?
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  And, uh, we're noticing some small successes, but,
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  but, you know, taking it to that next level
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  and that, that may not be something we,
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  we see in the next year, but,
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  but that's, there's a lot of optimism there that, um,
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  that can, you know, transform, um, what we're doing now,
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  get the, get the doctor
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  or the, the healthcare professional away from the computer
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  and, and more time with the patient.
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  You know, how can we use our analytics to generate revenue?
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  I mean, you know, as we all know,
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  the bottom lines are a little bit
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  tighter than they used to be.
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  And, and what can we do to
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  generate value from our data in this
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  challenging cost environment?
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  Um, how can we get a, how can we maximize our access?
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  We're doing some great things with access continuing
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  to improve, but the environment in medicine has changed
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  over the last few years.
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  Consumers have more options, you know, these private equity
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  entities and, you know, we need to listen
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  to our consumers even more patient
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  centered, give 'em what they want.
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  Um, and, and, you know, without that, without that access,
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  without that, that improvement, that's, um,
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  that's gonna impact our ability to, uh, fulfill our mission.
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  And so, um, you know, we're looking at,
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  at key service lines to grow.
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  And, um, but yeah, I mean, it's really,
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  all these things are about improving the patient experience,
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  the employee experience,
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  and, um, uh, maximizing our, our margin and bottom line.
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  - That makes a lot of sense. And I know
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  that it can sometimes be a balance,
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  as you were talking about in terms of figuring out how
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  to deliver the great outcomes while understanding the
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  financial realities and,
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  and knowing, you know, what can be helpful, um, from the
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  clinical perspective, um, in that regard.
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  And then too, thinking about the patient experience,
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  I know there's so much that happened, has happened,
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  it seems like even in the last two years as, um,
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  focus zeros in on, you know, what patients are looking
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  for within their, um, their healthcare journey and,
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  and when they're approaching and needing care.
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  Um, you know, really there's a lot that can be done, um, to,
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  to make it a better experience and achieve better outcomes.
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  And so I think it, it is really interesting to hear,
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  you know, from your perspective, the work that you
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  and your teams are doing, um, in that space.
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  Is there anything that you're, you're looking at right now
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  and are, are excited about when you think about growth
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  and development over the next 12 to 24 months or so?
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  - Well, I mean, we just need to grow, uh, and
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  and we need to grow in key areas.
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  I, I guess one thing that excites me personally,
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  and it's, it's, um, you know, I, I went into this
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  for patients, uh, you know, like most,
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  like most in healthcare.
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  I mean, uh, we love patients and,
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  and we want to, we want to help.
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  And so, um, there's not only improvement of access
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  and growth and all those things that, that, um, uh,
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  you know, we're trying to do.
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  But, but the other one that I'm really proud that our,
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  our enterprise has, has emphasized this is,
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  is closing the gaps in health equity
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  and, you know, the, um, the, uh, groups,
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  lower socioeconomic status, uh, et cetera.
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  I mean, getting them the healthcare, the same healthcare
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  that everyone else is getting.
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  We all, we all, they all deserve the same, we want
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  that, we want that equity.
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  And it's, you know, certainly something, I've been
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  involved in different initiatives
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  and different health systems over the years, but,
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  but I'm really excited with some of the things, uh,
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  advocate Health's doing to, to improve those gaps.
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  And, you know, engaging with the community and, and,
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  and drilling down certain patient groups, um,
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  that's just important and why we do this.
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  And, and, you know, and then on a personal level,
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  I'll share, I'm happy to share this.
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  I, I, um, grew up myself in a very, uh,
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  poor environment, uh, low socioeconomic status, struggled
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  to, uh, not just see a physician, but,
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  but groceries, get groceries and,
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  and you know, I remember that, I remember those times and,
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  and, um, I don't want anyone
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  to have to go through that, you know?
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  I mean, that's, uh, yeah, just, just really proud
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  that we are, are, are working hard
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  and emphasizing that part of medicine.
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  - Absolutely. I, I think it's so meaningful and,
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  and definitely a, as you mentioned from experience, know
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  how important it is when you have somebody looking out
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  for you and, and making sure that, um, you know,
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  when you might not have
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  otherwise had access, um, naturally to healthcare in,
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  in some of the, the different services
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  and resources, um, as others.
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  And so, you know, I, I think it's really powerful to bring
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  that perspective into the role that you have as a physician
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  and, and then to, um, your work as chief medical officer
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  and thinking about health equity.
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  So, um, thank you so much for sharing that with us.
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  Are there any of the, um, projects
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  or initiatives that, um, you know, kind of, um, um,
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  have been really impactful already on the community or,
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  or anything that, um, you wanna share that, you know,
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  you've, um, thought, you know,
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  really made a difference so far?
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  - You know, I think we have a,
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  a good group working on social determinants of health and,
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  and, and those areas.
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  Um, you know, I would just say I, off the top of my head,
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  I can't think of a specific project,
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  but I, I would say broadly, you know,
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  and this, this goes back to my own personal experiences, um,
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  you can build all sorts of processes,
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  but at the, at the core, you have to have trust.
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  And, um, you know, I remember back in those,
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  those days being scared, my family being scared to see
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  a healthcare provider because of, um, you know, cost
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  and, you know, and, and we didn't have much money.
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  And, and that never should have been a barrier.
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  If people aren't coming to see you, then
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  you, you can't design, in my opinion, a process
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  that's gonna work you, that's the first step.
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  And so, you know, I think broadly, our, our teams are,
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  are really trying to bridge that trust gap
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  through our churches, through the community.
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  And, and, um, yeah, I think, I think that's the,
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  you know, these things are very complex.
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  There's many things you have to work through,
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  but I think that's a key step.
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  Uh, and I, I know that we have initiatives that are,
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  are improving that, and, you know, so that's an example of
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  my own bias from my own life versus, um, you know, uh,
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  and translating that to, to some of our initiatives.
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  - Absolutely. Well, Dr. Summers, thank you so much
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  for joining us on the podcast today.
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  This has been such a fantastic conversation.
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  We covered a lot of ground
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  and, you know, really helpful to see from your perspective,
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  um, some of the, the great work that you're doing.
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  So, uh, thank you for being here with us today.
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  I appreciate our conversation
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  and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.
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  - All right. Thank you for your time.
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  I appreciate you talking with me.
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  Take care.