Latest / Finding New Waters / Family Recovery & Invisible Interventions: Amber Hollingsworth on Addiction, Denial, and Change

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Family Recovery & Invisible Interventions: Amber Hollingsworth on Addiction, Denial, and Change · Finding New Waters

• 0:00
  We treat the whole family. We just don't treat you all in
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  the same room because usually when people are coming for
• 0:05
  addiction issues, if you put them in the room with their
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  family, it doesn't go well. Like either everybody just sort
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  of quiet because they don't want to argue in front of the
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  counselor and then they leave and nothing really gets dealt
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  with. And then they're like, why are
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  we spending our money on this? Or you put them in the same room
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  and then everyone does say what's going on and it turns
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  into a big old argument and everyone leaves feeling more
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  upset with them when they came. So we assign each person their
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  own advocate. We call it lawyering.
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  And so I'm always the defence attorney.
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  And so it's my job to see the person who has an addiction and
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  it's my job to have their back. My whole well, and that's what I
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  tell them. I say, listen, I know your
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  family's sending you over here because they think I'm the
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  principal, but they're wrong because it's my job to have your
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  back. It's my job to see things from
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  your point of view and to speak for you and to get you out of
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  whatever hole that you're in. All right.
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  Welcome to another episode of Finding New Waters.
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  My name is Bea Reeves. I'm the Director of Business
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  Development at New Waters Recovery in Raleigh.
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  I'm sitting here with our CEO, Justin McClendon, and our
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  special guest today, very special guest, is Amber
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  Hollingsworth, who is a therapist in Greenville, SC And
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  I've gotten to know her in the last 24 hours, as it as it were.
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  And we're very glad to have you on the other side of the seat.
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  So thank you so much for being here.
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  Yeah, happy to be here. I'm excited.
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  Yeah, well, what do you, other than being a therapist, like,
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  what do you do? Well, these days, I mean, I'm
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  I've been a therapist working with people who have subsidies
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  problems for 20 years. But these days I do a lot of
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  content creation. So I see clients two days a week
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  and I work on all this other stuff three days a week.
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  That's cool. And one thing I like about
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  having you on is, you know, most of our guests, either we know
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  them or somebody put us in touch with them.
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  But this was this one came out a little bit of a different way
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  where I kind of met with you in a different capacity and then
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  here you are now. So I like that this is a a fresh
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  perspective in a little bit of a different way.
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  And, you know, in reading your bio, see that you did start out,
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  you did work in inpatient treatment and then sort of
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  worked your way into private practice.
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  And kind of will you just tell us a little bit about how you,
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  you know, found yourself in the field and the kind of evolution
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  of your or your career? Right.
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  So I got into the field in the not, not traditional way.
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  I feel like most people that end up doing this kind of work
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  usually are in recovery and so they have very personal heart
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  reason for ending up doing this kind of work.
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  And I ended up here by accident. I honestly, I ended up here
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  because I couldn't afford to take off a whole year and intern
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  as a school counselor. So they changed majors at the
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  last minute. I was in counseling school and
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  so that I could intern in the summer.
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  And they put me in a substance abuse program to, to do my
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  internship. And then they, they hired me
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  after I did my internship. And because I taught high
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  school, they said we want you to develop this addiction program
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  for teenagers because you taught high school for them, because
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  you did, you know, three month internship over there with the
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  adult substance abusers. And they just turn me loose.
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  Like there wasn't even a program for me to step into.
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  They wanted me to develop it and then run it.
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  And so I acted like I knew what I was doing 'cause I didn't want
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  to, you know, be seen as someone who didn't.
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  But I did not know what I was doing.
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  I was in so far over my head it's not even funny.
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  So I got here by accident. Yeah.
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  And yeah, make it till you make it.
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  How did now I have to know how? How did it go?
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  How'd the program turn? Out.
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  Oh my goodness. So it's it's me and it's this
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  program was an intensive outpatient.
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  It ran at night. And so the good thing about that
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  is most of the administrators were gone.
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  But it's just me in this hospital and these teenagers,
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  most of which who had just come out of like an inpatient setting
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  after something serious that happened.
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  And they're doing this as an aftercare program.
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  I'm in this little room which really just is like, looks like
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  a long closet. I mean, it's so tiny and meaning
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  about like, I don't know, anywhere from 8 to 13 or 14
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  teenagers at a time. And they're just like, I'm
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  thinking, what in the world am I going to do 'cause I, they
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  don't. People think they teach you this
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  in counseling school, but they don't, OK, they don't teach you
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  any, any of this. And they sure don't teach you
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  about addictions. And we have one addiction class
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  and that basically involved going to a few 12 step meetings
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  and then writing, you know, a report about it essentially.
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  And I think we learned like Jelinex disease model or
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  something. So I'm in, I'm in with these
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  teenagers and I don't want to be seen as someone who doesn't know
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  what they're doing. So I'm just trying to figure
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  out, first, I'm just trying to figure out how do I get these
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  kids to show up 'cause they got to they, they go home and then
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  you got to get them to show up Monday, Wednesday, Friday from
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  6:00 to 9:00. And, and I needed them to show
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  up because otherwise it'd be evident that I didn't know what
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  I was doing and this program would fall apart and I wouldn't
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  have a job. So I decided to make it my
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  mission with these teenagers to just build a relationship with
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  them and figure out how to get them to show up.
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  And I, I wasn't even trying to practice any kind of fancy
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  addiction counseling. I was just trying to get these
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  kids to show back up. So I focused on the relationship
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  aspect of what I was doing. And amazingly, it worked.
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  And the reason it worked was and it I don't have any cool.
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  I have wild drug stories to tell.
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  I don't have any tattoos. I'm so not cool.
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  Like I've never been cool. And definitely, you know, I was
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  24 probably at the time, and these teeners are looking to be
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  like, who are you or whatever. But I just decided I was going
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  to like befriend them and, and get them to like me.
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  And the way you get them to like you is just to like them.
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  It's it's pretty easy. Just be interested in them and
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  then I like you. And so they, they would come and
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  I decided that I would take the kids that came to the program
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  and graduated and let them keep coming back for free as long as
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  they wanted to, to be mentors. So they built this whole mentor
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  program and then the the new kids that would come through,
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  they liked coming and then they want to be mentors.
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  So they've get sober because they want to be mentors.
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  And so the whole thing just grew, like grew and grew until
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  we barely fit into our little closet that we were in.
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  And there's more pieces to it. We developed this whole family
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  program and that that program grew.
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  They weren't meeting in the gym area and that, and they almost
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  outgrew the, the gym. So it was amazing and it, and it
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  worked because of the relationships was probably the
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  first lesson I learned. And maybe not maybe, but is the
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  most important lesson I've learned in my entire career that
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  if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
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  That's amazing. I love that.
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  So family, I know that from talking to you and seeing what
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  you've done, reading about, you mean the you, you still do
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  family work. Yes, I have a a private practice
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  and I have a couple of other coaches that work with me.
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  So when I went out into private practice, the model that I sort
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  of came up with was we treat the whole family.
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  We just don't treat you all in the same room because usually
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  when people are coming for addiction issues, if you put
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  them in the room with their family, it doesn't go well.
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  Like either everybody's just sort of quiet 'cause they don't
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  want to argue in front of the counselor.
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  And then they leave and nothing really gets dealt with.
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  And then they're like, why are we spending our money on this?
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  Or you put them in the same room and then everyone does say
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  what's going on and that turns into a big old argument and
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  everyone leaves feeling more upset when they came.
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  So we assign each person their own advocate.
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  We call it lawyering. And so I'm always the defense
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  attorney. And so it's my job to see the
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  person who has an addiction and it's my job to have their back,
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  my whole world. And that's what I tell them.
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  I say, listen, I know your family's sending you over here
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  'cause they think I'm the principal, but they're wrong
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  because it's my job to have your back.
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  It's my job to see things from your point of view and to speak
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  for you and to get you out of whatever hole that you're in.
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  And so that's what I do. I align with them and then their
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  family, they get a lawyer. And those lawyers are trained
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  well too. And a lot of it helps behind the
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  scenes. We, we mediate a lot of it.
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  And they'll say, well, if, if your little client will stop
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  doing this, then, you know, I'll say, well, can you get that mom
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  to stop reading the journal? Can you get that wife to stop,
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  you know, tracking them on the app or whatever.
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  And we negotiate a lot of it behind the scenes like lawyers
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  do. A lot of it's mediated.
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  Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting.
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  I love that. I thought, you're about to ask
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  for something. No, no.
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  And so that and, and so our experience, my experience in my
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  personal life, our experience in new waters often is that the
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  families sometimes feel like the, the, the loved one, the
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  son, the husband, whatever the, the client.
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  Why do do I the the like in my case, my mom who took me to
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  treatment, Why do I have to do any work?
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  You know, he might. I'm not the problem, you know, I
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  mean, how do you kind of handle that?
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  It can be kind of offensive, right?
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  If you say to the family member, they're like, I'm not the one
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  with the problem. I mean, they can feel offended.
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  So I developed techniques on how to get them to do it.
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  But the the thing of it is, is I need help and the person that's
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  at home has the most influence over anybody.
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  And so it's kind of like if I don't get that family member on
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  board to help me with what I'm doing, they end up sabotaging
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  me. And if not sabotaging, slowing
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  me down, not meaning to. They don't mean to.
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  They're doing the best they can. They're doing, you know,
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  natural, responsive things, but they end up hurting a lot more
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  than they're helping. And the reason I say that is
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  because from 20 years of seeing people have addictions, when
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  their families are reacting to it in the ways that you would
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  normally react to a situation like this, all that person can
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  talk to me about is their loved one.
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  And they see that as the problem, their parent, their
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  kid, I mean, their parent, their spouse or whatever.
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  And you can't get them to talk about anything else.
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  You can't get them to talk about what what's going on with them
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  or any kind of addiction issue they may or may not feel like
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  they have because they're just fixated on this one very
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  problematic person in their life.
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  And so for me, the whole family thing started out was 'cause I
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  was like, if I don't get this mom and this wife to stop doing
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  this, I'm never even going to get this person to talk to me
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  about anything else. And they don't, they don't mean
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  to do that. But the what happens is the
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  person with the addiction has to have a villain.
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  It's just the way this story goes, you have to have a
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  villain. And though whoever's the closest
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  to you in your family is going to be the villain and you end up
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  in this power struggle with them and that becomes the fixation of
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  both of your lives. Like, and it's an obsession over
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  anything and everything else. The addict obsesses about how
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  it's not fair and resentment and they focus on how to sneak
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  around and get away with and get back at and that's all they can
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  think about. And the family member, same
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  thing on the other side. And so it's about untangling
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  this power struggle that's happening so that so that we can
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  get some recovery happening. When you say you treat the
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  family but not in the same room, does do you literally bring them
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  in kind of 1 by 1 or how does that work?
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  Well, they just, they just have their own sessions.
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  So I would have a session with the person who has the addiction
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  and their family member would have their own sessions with the
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  person. We'll have the two family
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  coaches that that work too, and they work with them.
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  Cool. Yeah.
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  And how do you, when you're talking about kind of helping
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  them untangle this, this dynamic that they have going on, how do
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  you feel like do you find yourself going about doing that?
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  These days most people find me on YouTube and mostly the family
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  members find me first because they're the ones that feel
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  desperate. They're the ones looking for
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  help. Like what do I do?
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  I've got a loved one in denial. They won't get help.
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  They don't think they have a problem.
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  I've tried everything I can try. And So what I do with the family
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  members is I teach them how to get out of the bad guy role
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  because as long as they're in that villain role, that's the
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  only, they're just going to be stuck in that power struggle.
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  So we talked about how to extract yourself from being that
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  bad guy role, which usually involves like being critical of
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  the other person, trying to control the other situation.
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  It's like the formula that works for getting someone out of deny
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  on getting someone better is natural consequences.
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  And if they have a person in their life that has some empathy
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  or that can make them feel hopeful that something can be
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  better, that's a good formula. But what most families do is the
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  reverse of that. What they do is they fix all the
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  external natural consequences. You know, they pay for the
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  lawyer, they call the teachers, they cover for you, they watch
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  your kids when you're supposed to be doing it, you know, and so
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  they're fixing all of the natural problems that would
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  occur for this person, but they're mad at them inside the
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  relationship. And that's what creates this
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  skewed point of view of I don't have a problem with that.
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  I have a problem with you. It's the only thing they can see
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  because you're fixing everything else.
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  But but being angry and critical and controlling inside and and
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  we teach families to reverse that.
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  So I want you to be on their side.
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  I want you to learn to listen with empathy.
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  I want you to learn how to use reflective listening statements.
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  And I don't want you to fix these other problems that
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  they're creating. But when they run into those
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  problems, which they will, I want you to respond with
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  empathy. When that happens, it activates
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  the learning part of the brain. And that's how you get someone
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  to move from those stages of change from denial to thinking,
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  well, maybe I have a problem to, well, maybe I need to do
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  something. Maybe I should cut it back to, I
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  think I'm really going to have to do something about this.
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  The reason I know that is because that's what I did.
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  All these years of working with people of addictions is I they
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  create messes and I listen to them.
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  I get to know them really well, build a relationship with them.
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  I have empathy for them. And then and then eventually
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  they'll get themselves in a situation and I'll say something
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  like, Oh my God, like we got to do this and that.
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  We got to get you out of this mess.
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  And maybe that's good treatment. Maybe that's whatever it is.
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  And they're like, yeah, they feel like I helped them.
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  But really, I just put the right seeds in place and wait.
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  So that's what we teach families to do.
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  Interesting. So you make them feel like
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  you're on their side to get them to take a step they otherwise
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  maybe wouldn't have taken. But coming from a family member
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  or even somebody who didn't position themselves as the as
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  the ally would recommend the same thing.
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  But it would they would reject it because of the way it was
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  presented basically. Is that what you're saying?
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  Well, right, so the family member might have been saying
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  you need, you need to get help or this or that, but they're
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  they're saying at the wrong time, they're saying that to
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  someone who's in complete denial.
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  And when you're telling someone they need to go to treatment
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  when they don't need to have a problem, it doesn't go very
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  well. In fact, the, the person you're
• 15:53
  talking to thinks you're ridiculous, lunatic,
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  overreacting and it ruins your credibility.
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  So I have a, a system, I call it the invisible intervention and,
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  and I call it building your credit with the person.
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  It's like a credit score. And I actually have a whole
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  scoring system. Like if you say this and do this
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  and they say this is this many points, or you can do this and
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  subtract points. And so I'm like, you got to
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  build your credit score before any recommendation that you have
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  has any weight. Just like if you want to buy a
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  house, you have to have certain credit, right?
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  Like so you can't be making recommendations when your point
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  of view isn't considered valid. Yeah.
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  That's interesting. The credit score, like, yeah, me
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  too. That's awesome.
• 16:36
  You know, just to relate, I guess, a little bit, you know,
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  we, we deal with very similar stuff and similar family
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  dynamics a lot, you know, and the one thing that really stood
• 16:48
  out when you were talking about how the, the family member can,
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  I mean, I'm going to use different words, but kind of
• 16:54
  solve the problems or protect this person from these natural
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  consequences. And we do, unfortunately, we see
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  this kind of dynamic play out pretty frequently, you know, and
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  we see it a lot, right? Just like I'm sure you do too,
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  right? Is that like we see it, you
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  know, between spouses, we see it, you know, parental to child,
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  like all these different kind of ways.
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  And and I feel like this is just a constant struggle, especially
• 17:19
  like with new waters, right? So we're detox.
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  So we get them, they come in, you know, whether they've been
• 17:22
  through treatment before, at least for right now, in this
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  moment, it's the first step and what we hope is going to be a
• 17:27
  journey to recovery. And it sometimes can be the most
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  difficult part is trying to work with that family member, whether
• 17:35
  it's the spouse or the parent or the grandparent or whoever it is
• 17:39
  the sibling, and try and help them understand that.
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  Like, hey, we know that this is the way that you've been
• 17:45
  operating and you don't know any other way.
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  But if you don't let us help you guide a guide you to a way to do
• 17:51
  this different right now, then the rest of this stuff may not
• 17:54
  be possible. You know, helping them
• 17:56
  understand how to just say no sometimes or to allow a
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  consequence to unfold is it can be extremely difficult for them,
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  excruciating sometimes. It really, it really can, but
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  but once they shift over to doing it the other way, it's not
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  like the person immediately says, Oh my gosh, I would
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  probably go to treatment. But almost immediately the
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  relationship shifts and things become a lot easier.
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  And then because you're not blocking their point of view on
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  what the problem is, they start to see it and figure it out
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  faster. And we teach families how to
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  identify the things that motivate their loved one, not
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  the things they think should motivate now.
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  And because if you can build that credit, they'll be more
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  honest with you and you'll get glimpses of it.
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  You'll see these little seeds. You know something will happen
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  and they'll say, hi, I need to cut back or man, this making me
• 18:46
  gain weight or whatever. You know, they'll have their,
• 18:49
  their little reasons. And so once you can find those
• 18:52
  seeds, then you can start to water them is what I call it,
• 18:56
  and nurture them and pull them forward.
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  So not only is it allowing this person to see the problem, but
• 19:01
  you're finding their motivators and you're just positively
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  reinforcing them, you're acknowledging them, You're
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  growing these little seeds to bring a person along through
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  those stages of change to figure out I have a problem, what
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  should I do about it? What do I think's going to work
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  for me? And use what motivates them.
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  And, and often times it's very different than what the family
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  member thinks should motivate them 'cause sometimes it seems
• 19:24
  like minor 'cause it's like that's the thing you care about.
• 19:27
  You know, you, you're not saying you want to stop dreaming
• 19:30
  because you got 5 DUI and your kids won't talk to you, but
• 19:33
  because you're getting weight. It doesn't matter.
• 19:35
  Whatever's the thing that matters to them, you got to find
• 19:38
  it and harvest it. And so these are the pieces that
• 19:42
  really not just get someone to get help, but get someone to
• 19:45
  change and stay changed. Because it's not just how do I
• 19:49
  force someone to go to treatment, it's how do I get
• 19:52
  someone in the mindset to want something different so that it
• 19:57
  sticks. So true, yeah.
• 20:02
  You mentioned the content creation and I know you
• 20:05
  mentioned a little bit even in this.
• 20:06
  I know I think B, can I say that on the podcast?
• 20:08
  I think you were on on the podcast recently.
• 20:10
  So I'd love to hear a little bit about what kind of content is
• 20:14
  it? And I, I just love the idea of
• 20:17
  that. If if there's parents or loved
• 20:20
  ones or you know, spouses that can kind of sometimes that's
• 20:23
  where it starts, right? It's like, hey, I don't know
• 20:25
  what to do. Maybe I'm not ready to see a
• 20:27
  therapist but watch a video on how I could do this differently.
• 20:30
  Absolutely. And on that note, you know, we
• 20:33
  we do this podcast and we have an audience and of, you know,
• 20:38
  it's a nice mixed bag of people who are parents, you know, sober
• 20:41
  curious people in recovery, people in our field.
• 20:45
  But I do know that in my world of my family and their friends
• 20:50
  and my friends and their families and sometimes people,
• 20:54
  even though I'm probably the most public person in their, in
• 20:57
  their lives about recovery, they're still afraid to talk to
• 21:02
  me about it. But what they do love is hearing
• 21:05
  from people like you and even even Justin, 'cause they, you
• 21:08
  know, they know I work with, they don't know him, but they
• 21:10
  but hearing it from not me, 'cause I don't know if it's
• 21:13
  partially because they know what I was like before or because
• 21:16
  it's just too, it's just like one step too far, makes it a
• 21:19
  little too real to talk to somebody they already know.
• 21:23
  But so like having, you know, resources like you is, is, is so
• 21:27
  important. So, yeah, I mean, like, tell us
• 21:30
  what all you do. I mean, I know what we did
• 21:32
  yesterday, but it sounds like that's kind of a new thing
• 21:33
  you're doing. So what all do you do?
• 21:36
  Mainly I'm on YouTube and I, we have videos on there that are
• 21:43
  for family members and we have videos on there for people who
• 21:46
  are trying to figure out how to overcome some kind of addictive
• 21:50
  behavior. I would say probably about 70%
• 21:54
  of our audience is the family member.
• 21:56
  About 30% of our audience is people who have a substance
• 22:00
  abuse problem or an addiction of some sort.
• 22:02
  And then, well, I guess I should say there's a certain percentage
• 22:04
  of like other professionals and stuff that watch, but mostly
• 22:08
  people find us. The family member finds us
• 22:09
  first. And that's, that's good 'cause
• 22:12
  that's the way we, you know, we like the process and they find
• 22:14
  us and they learn how to interact with their loved one.
• 22:18
  And then they bring the loved one along eventually.
• 22:19
  And we teach them exact. And I even teach them, I'll say,
• 22:21
  don't send them this video. You know, I'll do a video
• 22:24
  saying, you know, five ways your loved one magically each year or
• 22:28
  something. And I'll say, don't you dare
• 22:30
  send them this video 'cause they'll 'cause they'll be like,
• 22:33
  yeah, you tell them Amber and they'll want to send it like a
• 22:36
  confrontation. I'm like, if you're, if you're
• 22:37
  doing that, you're not listening to me, You're back up.
• 22:41
  And we even teach them how to sort of introduce them, you
• 22:44
  know, find a video that's, that they're going to resonate with.
• 22:47
  Find a video where I'm talking about where the family member
• 22:49
  acts like a crazy lunatic and manipulates.
• 22:50
  Send them that they'll, they'll be all about that.
• 22:53
  And it's it's about so the family member finds us, they
• 22:57
  usually work the steps to to get their loved one in a better
• 23:02
  frame of mind. And then they're and then a lot
• 23:04
  of times the loved one comes along after the fact.
• 23:08
  And so do you see these people in person, over the phone,
• 23:11
  virtually? How does all this work?
• 23:13
  These days I don't do any counseling anymore.
• 23:16
  I do do some short term coaching.
• 23:19
  I don't see a lot because like I said, I only do that a couple of
• 23:22
  days a week. But I do, yeah, short term
• 23:25
  coaching. And what's, what's amazing is,
• 23:27
  you know, I've done this work for a long time and I would say
• 23:30
  the thing that I'm really good at is probably just like
• 23:33
  engaging people that are resistant because I just don't
• 23:36
  respond to them the way they think I'm going to, to win them
• 23:39
  over. And but it takes a really long
• 23:42
  time to work through those stages.
• 23:44
  You know, in the past, it could take me 6 months to get someone
• 23:48
  to the point of considering maybe I should just give this a
• 23:51
  try. But these days when the
• 23:53
  families, they just watch my YouTube videos and they're just
• 23:56
  like working the system behind the scenes.
• 23:58
  And now when I get a new person that comes to me, they hit the
• 24:01
  ground running. It's the most amazing thing.
• 24:03
  I just love it makes my job so much easier because you know,
• 24:06
  they'll call or contact me and they'll say you just got to help
• 24:10
  me stop doing this. Amber.
• 24:11
  I'm just, I can't, I'm ruining my life.
• 24:13
  Like I'm treating my wife like crap.
• 24:15
  I just, I can't quit this pattern.
• 24:17
  As opposed to coming in and us spending six months of them
• 24:20
  complaining about their boss or their spouse or their parent or
• 24:23
  whatever. It's like they're come in in
• 24:25
  that active stage of change. And honestly, it doesn't take
• 24:29
  near as long now because they come in ready and.
• 24:32
  And I know when they call me saying those things, I know
• 24:34
  exactly that their family has set the situation up.
• 24:37
  It feels like playing volleyball and someone sets it and then I
• 24:39
  spike it over. It's amazing.
• 24:42
  It makes my life so much easier. It costs them a lot less money
• 24:44
  because the amount of time is way shortened.
• 24:48
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:50
  And so you've been doing this for, you know, you've been a
• 24:53
  therapist working with addictions for 20 years.
• 24:58
  Imagine the content creation is new because it's a newer thing
• 25:02
  altogether. But in your time, what how have
• 25:05
  you seen the landscape change in terms of what substances people
• 25:09
  are addicted to? What other addictions do you
• 25:12
  work with? Process addiction, things like
• 25:14
  that, Like kinda what have you seen change?
• 25:17
  How have you seen it? The the big substances I see and
• 25:20
  and it does change over time and it I think this can be regional
• 25:23
  too. Different reasons have different
• 25:24
  sort of patterns, but alcohol, marijuana and opiates, those are
• 25:30
  the big three. I rarely have anyone addicted to
• 25:34
  stimulants. Occasionally, occasionally
• 25:37
  cocaine. But alcohol, number one,
• 25:40
  marijuana and opiates. Probably kind of Todd in there.
• 25:45
  Yeah, and are you starting to see the kratom pop up in your
• 25:48
  world at all? Less now.
• 25:50
  I went through a phase a few years back where that was a
• 25:52
  bigger thing. There was a, there was a few
• 25:56
  years where that was really big. Not that it's not going on as
• 25:59
  much, but I haven't seen as much of it present in our office.
• 26:04
  That doesn't mean it's not happening.
• 26:05
  Like I said, I don't even see that many clients anymore
• 26:07
  because of just the limitations of my schedule.
• 26:10
  But the one trend that I will say that I think is kind of good
• 26:16
  and bad is, you know, when I first started doing this, I was
• 26:19
  with teenagers for like the first five years or something.
• 26:22
  And so of course, all of them were smoking weed or whatever.
• 26:25
  And you know, every day for all these years, I have to hear the
• 26:27
  same. I'm, I'm almost just like, can
• 26:29
  y'all just get something new? You know, it's, it's natural, it
• 26:32
  comes from the earth, It's not addictive.
• 26:35
  I'm just like, Oh my God, can y'all just get something new
• 26:37
  'cause I'm so tired of hearing that these days.
• 26:40
  These days I actually get a lot of people, even young people
• 26:42
  sometimes and they'll come in and say I'm addicted to weed and
• 26:46
  it would never happen before. And the reason that happens now
• 26:49
  is because you know, now that you have like these Vape pens,
• 26:52
  all these other ways of going about it, People smoke weed like
• 26:56
  like they used to smoke cigarettes.
• 26:58
  All. Day, every day.
• 27:01
  So the denial about the fact that it can be addictive is much
• 27:05
  less than it used to be. It's still very hard to get
• 27:08
  people to give it up. It's literally the hardest
• 27:10
  addiction that I treat. And I know people think that's
• 27:12
  crazy, but it. That's me.
• 27:14
  Crazy. Well, something that comes up a
• 27:18
  lot on here and we talk about at work and, and you know, and
• 27:21
  recovery and all is that marijuana, like when I, when I
• 27:27
  entered high school in 1991, it was a different thing than when
• 27:32
  I graduated four years later. You know, when I, when I was a
• 27:35
  freshman in high school, it was stems and seeds and made you
• 27:39
  hungry, tired and laugh. And by the time I graduated from
• 27:44
  high school, it made you, you know, it was 4 times as much
• 27:48
  money, hydroponics and look different, smelled different and
• 27:54
  made you feel like you're tripping and it but and but
• 27:57
  meanwhile, though starting from the 60s, if not before, it had
• 28:01
  like you just mentioned this, it's natural, it's innocent, you
• 28:05
  can't get addicted. It was building up this
• 28:07
  reputation rightfully or wrongfully so early on that it
• 28:12
  was harmless, but the the lobby did a great job.
• 28:16
  And by the time the lobby was successful, it was a different
• 28:19
  product. And now it's it's even 30 years
• 28:22
  later from then, it's even more potent and causing all sorts of
• 28:27
  issues, including being more addictive than ever.
• 28:30
  Right. Like if someone is waking up
• 28:32
  drinking alcohol, they kind of realize they have an alcohol
• 28:35
  problem. But some of the people wake up
• 28:36
  and smoke first thing, you know, and they, they don't even like I
• 28:39
  said, people use it like, like they would nicotine.
• 28:43
  And so, and the people that come see me that have problem with
• 28:47
  marijuana are the most depressed.
• 28:49
  They're more depressed than like the other ones.
• 28:51
  They're very depressed because of chemically what the substance
• 28:55
  is doing to them, but also too, because they, they're also
• 28:58
  depressed because they feel like they're behind in life.
• 29:01
  They're not accomplishing things the way they want to.
• 29:03
  They're not keeping up with life the way they want to.
• 29:05
  And so they're, they're depressed about that.
• 29:07
  Like they're, they're very depressed.
• 29:11
  Yeah, well, I mean, I know first hand what it's like because I
• 29:14
  wasn't, that was never my thing, but I definitely partook in a
• 29:17
  lot of it. But if I'd smoked weed, anything
• 29:22
  I had on my schedule to do that day, that was no longer going to
• 29:24
  happen. Right.
• 29:26
  I mean, basically, you know, like I'm, I'm never going to be
• 29:28
  able to respond to this, write this letter, go to this
• 29:31
  appointment, whatever it was, and that, you know, that stuff
• 29:34
  piles up and I wasn't an I wasn't even a daily, but enough
• 29:38
  for it to have had an effect on me.
• 29:40
  I can't imagine what it would do to someone who's just an all day
• 29:42
  every day. All the time, right?
• 29:43
  And I mean, you might have big ideas and plans and grand
• 29:46
  schemes, but you don't get there's no action, you know, a
• 29:50
  lot of times behind it. Yeah.
• 29:51
  Right. And then there's the myth that,
• 29:53
  oh, I'm going to write the Great American novel, but I got to be
• 29:55
  super high to do it. And then, I mean, I would wake
• 29:58
  up so many times and look at my, you know, my laptop was sitting
• 30:02
  open on my desk with, you know, Page 1 and just nothing written.
• 30:08
  But I, you know, I was sure that if I got the cocktail just
• 30:11
  right, including weed, then then I would be inspired.
• 30:14
  But. Yeah, 'cause people say
• 30:16
  sometimes, like it makes me more creative or I'm actually more
• 30:20
  smarter, athletic, and I'm like, does it really make you that way
• 30:22
  or does it make you feel like you are?
• 30:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:26
  Yeah. And then not to go down a rabbit
• 30:28
  hole with this, but the other thing since we are talking about
• 30:30
  cannabis is that we see, I'm curious if if you see this too.
• 30:34
  But we see especially us being a lot more medically focused.
• 30:37
  Like we see a lot of individuals struggling with like, you know,
• 30:40
  cannabis induced psychosis or you know, maybe not quite full
• 30:43
  blown psychosis, but like manic like symptoms that only kind of
• 30:47
  showed up when they started habitually smoking cannabis.
• 30:50
  We see that a lot more frequently nowadays than we did
• 30:53
  even even just more than just a couple of years ago, I think.
• 30:57
  Yeah. Yeah, we do too.
• 30:59
  And it can happen to anyone but you.
• 31:00
  I especially see it in young guys anywhere from like 17 to 25
• 31:06
  and sometimes, you know, and and I think what what families don't
• 31:10
  understand about it is we're not talking about like you can get
• 31:12
  high on certain substances and have psychosis.
• 31:14
  This is different. This like initiates A psychotic
• 31:17
  mental health disorder. So it's not like I just have
• 31:20
  this when I'm high. It's like basically looks like
• 31:23
  schizophrenia that can last for months and months.
• 31:28
  Yeah, yeah. It's scary.
• 31:30
  It really is. It is very scary.
• 31:33
  Yeah. And we've seen it in mostly that
• 31:35
  basically the age group you just described, but also, I mean in
• 31:38
  older people who are, you know, because it's kind of seems to
• 31:43
  me, and I'm sure there's research, but from that it it
• 31:48
  kind of two things happen. One, it's something that already
• 31:50
  was somebody kind of was more inclined to have happen and it
• 31:56
  sort of unlocks it or they just it creates it.
• 32:00
  But either way, it creates this kind of this in THC and THC
• 32:06
  induced psychosis that presents itself as schizophrenia.
• 32:08
  And like you just said, it's not like, hey, they when they do
• 32:11
  this, they get crazy. It's like they do this and then
• 32:14
  they are this way for a very long time.
• 32:17
  Right, they activate a mental health disorder.
• 32:19
  Right. But meanwhile, hey, it's totally
• 32:22
  harmless. It's natural.
• 32:23
  I know. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:26
  We could talk about that, yeah. I don't.
• 32:27
  Yeah, I don't. We could go.
• 32:28
  We could go down that road. Like I said, it's, it's the most
• 32:30
  difficult addiction that I treat and I know people like not so
• 32:34
  much because it's so hard to stop.
• 32:36
  I mean, it's not easy to stop, but, but more because it's so
• 32:40
  hard for people to see that that's what's causing the
• 32:42
  problem and, and to get people to see.
• 32:45
  No, This is why, This is why all these things are happening
• 32:48
  'cause they happen so slowly that people don't connect the
• 32:51
  dot. You know, when you have a
• 32:53
  cocaine problem and life starts to get hard and unmanageably
• 32:56
  happens fast, you connect the dot faster, but marijuana just
• 33:00
  is so slow. I I tell people it's like when
• 33:02
  you're in the ocean playing as a kid and then you, you know, you
• 33:05
  wave at your parents and then you go back to plan and then you
• 33:08
  look up and they're not there anymore and you think they left
• 33:10
  me. But really the tide like took
• 33:12
  you down slowly. That's what that's what you need
• 33:14
  addictions like. And you think, I finally my
• 33:17
  friends, they left me. I was like, no, you know that.
• 33:19
  It's just, it's taking you slowly and you don't feel it and
• 33:23
  you don't recognize it. You just know you're mad about
• 33:26
  life, you're unhappy. Things aren't working.
• 33:29
  And we that's the only thing that's good about your day.
• 33:32
  That's the only thing that makes you feel better.
• 33:34
  And it's just so hard to get people to see the truth of what
• 33:38
  has happened there. Yeah.
• 33:41
  And again, it goes back to this misconception that it's harmless
• 33:45
  and from and natural and in a sense, it doesn't make people
• 33:48
  violent. And, you know, theoretically
• 33:50
  people aren't, you know, losing their relationships and jobs and
• 33:54
  stuff over it, but they kind of are.
• 33:56
  It's just not. Again, it's just not as rapid.
• 33:58
  Right. And I was doing this the other
• 34:00
  day because you know, you hear that was one of the other things
• 34:03
  you don't hear about people hitting their wife and they're
• 34:05
  on weed. You know that was the other
• 34:06
  just. Statements.
• 34:08
  You hear all the time, right? But I, I've seen a lot of
• 34:12
  teenagers get addicted to weed and be very aggressive and
• 34:15
  violent at home, like way more so than some of the other
• 34:21
  substances. And it doesn't affect everyone
• 34:23
  that way, but the amount of families that I have, I have to
• 34:26
  call the cops and like, like, like violent at home.
• 34:30
  It's it's the thing. It is.
• 34:33
  And just to throw this into the mix of the conversation is, you
• 34:36
  know, you mentioned kind of the acceptability of it and stuff
• 34:39
  like that. And I think another, you know,
• 34:41
  to whatever degree it contributes to it, But there's
• 34:44
  this kind of piece with the, the, the CBD and everything
• 34:47
  where it's like, it also is helpful.
• 34:49
  Not only that it's not hurtful, but that it's helpful.
• 34:52
  You know, it helps me with my, you know, my muscle pains and
• 34:55
  like, you know, all the things that yeah, nausea and like all
• 34:58
  the things that people say that, you know, cannabis can be
• 35:00
  helpful for which maybe it is, maybe it's not.
• 35:03
  But at a certain point, just like any other addiction, right?
• 35:05
  Like it's. Yeah, all the drugs are helpful
• 35:07
  for something. All of them pain pills.
• 35:10
  Stimulant. And alcohol.
• 35:12
  It's all helpful to some degree, but it's not helpful when it
• 35:15
  takes over your life. Yeah.
• 35:17
  That's exactly right. Exactly.
• 35:19
  You know what? And I that I think is a great
• 35:23
  way to kind of wind this up because that is exactly right.
• 35:26
  They all have a purpose and they're all helpful until they
• 35:29
  ruin your life. Yeah, until it turns on me.
• 35:32
  That's right. That's.
• 35:33
  Right. Yeah, exactly right.
• 35:35
  So what? Tell everybody how?
• 35:37
  How do our listeners find you, Amber?
• 35:40
  Sure. Best place to find me is on
• 35:41
  YouTube. Our channel is called Put the
• 35:44
  shovel down, as in you hit your bottom when you put the shovel
• 35:47
  down. Our goal is to get people to put
• 35:49
  the shovel down before they lose everything, before they hit
• 35:52
  bottom, before they burn all the bridges, because the sooner you
• 35:56
  address it, the easier it is to get out of.
• 35:59
  Love it. I'd Yeah, I saw that and I was,
• 36:01
  I'm glad this came up in, in our conversation because, yeah, you
• 36:05
  know, we, we can stop digging. That's right, yeah.
• 36:09
  Awesome. Well, I thank you so much for
• 36:11
  yesterday and thank you so much for today and love your
• 36:16
  perspective and love what you're doing.
• 36:18
  And I can't wait for other people, you know, in our field,
• 36:20
  in our audience to, to find you and benefit from your services
• 36:24
  and your videos all. Right.
• 36:25
  Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
• 36:28
  Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Amber.
• 36:31
  All right, if you liked what you heard today or just want to know
• 36:34
  more, give us a call on 9196708119 or visit us at
• 36:40
  newwatersrecovery.com. Thank you.