Latest / Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie / How to Scale to 7 Figures: Brand Positioning, Sales Psychology & Strategy Ft. Kate Perkovic

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How to Scale to 7 Figures: Brand Positioning, Sales Psychology & Strategy Ft. Kate Perkovic · Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Beyond Limits podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am joined here by Kate Perkovic who helps founders turn six figures into seven.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Kate, welcome to the show.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about you, how you got started in your business, and what exactly it is you do.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'll try to make it short because I know on podcasts people take like two hours.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my whole journey.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, the short of it is like the tagline that you'll see is like server to seven figures, which literally is kind of how it happened.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, rewind, probably I would say about eight years ago, I was literally a server waiting tables, had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I had gone to school for social work, and then I realized that I really wanted to serve people, but there wasn't really like great income that came from being in social work.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, okay, how do I serve people in a different way?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time uh when I was waiting tables, I saw someone's having a conference in Toronto that was for online fitness professionals.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the time, I was not a trainer, but I was at that point very fit.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, okay, great, I'm gonna go to this conference.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when I went, if you've ever been to a conference, they pitch you a mastermind at the end and join our world, et cetera.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did that and got mentored by him, built a fitness business, which I feel like was good because I liked the business, but I was definitely just not, I don't love chicken and broccoli like the way that other people do, like macros and all of that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, it's just not who I am.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I could play the part, but it just like wasn't authentic to me.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted out of that.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the coach actually that I was working with came to me and was like, why don't you come and work for me and mentor other people since you've obviously done this?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I ended up doing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I worked inside of that business for a long time, which was incredible.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: It honestly taught me so much about business.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was mainly a male team.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I was kind of missing that female component.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up going into high-ticket sales with him.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, I did all the converting into his mastermind from like ads and from social.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to an event just for like personal development, basically, and it was all women.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember being in this house with a group of women and they were like, Can you give me sales advice?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just like coaching people.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have an offer, like I'm not technically a business.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Can you teach us this?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can I send you money to teach me this?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I really need help with this.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I'm like, okay, I literally go home, I make the offer, and I remember, I think it was within the weekend I had$10,000 in my account.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, oh, so you're at this place where you're like, what just happened?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the classic principle of supply and demand.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had this moment where I'm like, okay, I can stick with this business, which is amazing, or I can potentially go out on my own, which was terrifying.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, three, two, one, go.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I left his business and went on my own.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so 18 months later, we had a seven-figure business.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we're eight years into this one with a multiple seven-figure business now.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And most of I would say at the heart of what we do is really helping people to scale, but in a way that I would say blends like the masculine and feminine.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think oftentimes in business, we feel as women like this need to choose.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love strategy, or I love, which I love both sides, the intuition aspect of it and the emotion aspect and you know, somatic work and all of these pieces.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I felt like in the women's space, there was such polarity of you have to choose one or the other.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, where's the middle for the person who's like, I love somatic work and I also want to understand the funnel.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically our goal was to like bridge that gap.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that for us is like the heart of everything of what we do now.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I find that the magic is in the middle.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I find when people pendulum swing either too much to one or they like then hate the bro, they hate the funnels, they hate the strategy, then they go all the way to the other side and they lose some of the structure.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: You actually you need both.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you're gonna be the most happiest and most successful is actually what you said is actually having the both in there.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think about being like, I've honestly I've been both sides.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was definitely deep in the masculine for a really long time.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like we joke that there was like blazer kate because basically I lived in my like blazer energy of just like the masculine energy of like data and systems and structure and all these pieces.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I was so emotionally disconnected that like I was never vulnerable.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I never actually felt my emotions.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: There was no aspect of like inner work with regulation.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was just, I don't have time for this right now.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I literally remember saying to my coach, I don't have time to sleep.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I find it an inconvenience.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, We're gonna work on that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so at that time I was super in the masculine.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then I had this kind of like awakening and I went total opposite side.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna anti-strategy.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna like lean into what feels good and we're gonna lean into like how we feel we want to show up right now and like what feels right for us.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was also a disaster because basically you're only leaning into what your body is telling you, and therefore you're never challenging where does that come from, i.e., what are like the values and beliefs I have, and how do I honor those in moments I don't feel like it?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like just in the last, truthfully, like the last maybe year and a half, two years, do I really feel like we've perfectly meshed those two sides?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you kind of have to taste a little bit over on one side or the other to really start to know that you need to go back to middle.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you help businesses kind of go back to the middle and decipher when they should be applying a strategy or when they should be?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like that's sometimes like the question that comes up.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, am I looking at the strategy?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Should I trust my intuition?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: If the numbers or strategy says this, but like my gut says this.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you help people decide which way to go?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like a lot of the people that I work with, I end up unpacking values because I think like I, regardless of like your faith, I think about it like this.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about faith, you have like a set of commandments that you live by, or you have a set of principles that you live by.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And those become the bumper lanes from which you operate.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like for me and for a lot of clients, what I teach is like understand what your values are because it will always guide you in the moments of knowing what to do.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's less of a like, I think people look at strategy of like in this specific situation, what am I supposed to do?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I feel like, what are the core of values and beliefs that I hold to be true as a business owner?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do I make sure that I'm always operating within that bumper lane?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the hard ones that I struggled with is this idea of working when I didn't want to work.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So before when I was in my masculine, I was like, hustle late nights, early mornings, and then you're like, it's toxic to the point where you're not actually resting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then again, the other side is like you rest and you sleep through the alarm and you just have a slow morning, and you just kind of like, I'm never in a rush.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, oh, I don't I don't feel like doing it in the business.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like most of them are just like, yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know it's not aligned for me to post today.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't feel like it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not in the vibe, and I'm like follow the plan.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, okay, it's like exactly to that, like literally F the mood follow the plan.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: If that is your principle, where like I am somebody who keeps the commitments that I set, if that's a principle of yours, like your value is I keep the commitments that I established, regardless of how I feel.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then the adjustment is maybe you need to stop setting commitments that you don't actually feel or that you don't actually want.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: But if you set the commitment, your principle is I keep the commitments that I set.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's this duality.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I'm always somebody who is now looking at what are the values of how I want to operate the business.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very confronting because I even actually had somebody I was talking to the other day, and they want this huge business, but there's so much because it's out of alignment, it's out of interest for them that they don't want to do.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said to her, you have a choice.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to choose to keep your values the way that they are, because basically you're saying, like, I don't want to work these hours, I don't want to do X.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have a lot of I won't do blank.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to acknowledge the other side of what that choice has a natural imposed consequence of, which is that therefore you won't post as much, which means you won't be seen as much, which means again, domino.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm literally a client who's doing the exact same thing.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So like know what you're accepting, I think.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most people are not willing to have that honest conversation.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So then they just complain and they're like, this is alignment for me, but I'm so frustrated because I don't have the results that I want.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love that's why I love you because we can have conversations like this.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think radical honesty is so important.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you can just be radically honest of like, I'm not willing to do that, that's fine.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then just be honest that you're not willing to do that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes with business with life.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, all right, I don't want to eat healthy.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm not willing to eat healthy, then this is what your body or health will look like.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But just be willing to be radically honest.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's so much freedom in that because when you're not being honest, then people say, Well, I should be farther along.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I they get into victim.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not making the money and make our business is not like this.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're radically honest, there's there's always incongruencies.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's because it's so confronting.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think for me, I'm radically, it's confronting to the ego.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have to actually acknowledge what you're truly saying.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like when uh I always love to use analogies because it makes people non-emotional about the situation that they're in.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, think about it like if you're in a relationship and someone's like, So you're choosing to stay with him even though he's not loving you properly.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you have to say yes to that question after you've just complained about him for an hour, that's very different than just being able to complain and being able to leave it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this aspect of actually having to truly state and accept that you're actually doing what you're saying and you're accepting this reality to be true is so confronting for people.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I find is like people end up in this constant kind of like cognitive dissonance of just like, there's who I think I am versus who I'm operating as.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then those realities are presented to them day after day after day, and then you're wondering why you're having a bad time in business.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just nodding because I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, I mean, we could go down this route, but what do you feel helps people get out of that in terms of when you see clients operating that?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you get them out of that?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I typically I used to tell them, and I realize it's not beneficial because it's like therapy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have to get asked the question to have the aha moment, not necessarily told who you are.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to tell them, and some people would be receptive, and others would be like, that doesn't land for me.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then I think what I've done now is I literally will have like I've done exercises with people of having a contrast of what you want versus what you're willing to do.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a client who was just like, I don't understand.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I want this result.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why can I not do that?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because exactly to your analogy of the gym.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you want the results that come from someone going to the gym five times a week and you're only willing to go once a week, I need you to see the difference here.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what I do is I kind of paint the picture of the person that they want to be.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get crystal clear of like literally the details of what that looks like, feels like.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you could touch it, what does it actually feel like?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: On the contrast, who are you now?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, does she snooze her alarm, like you snooze your alarm, or what does she do?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, she three, two, one, go and gets up.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great, there's a discrepancy.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or if she's at a place where she's like, I need to invest, and right now your idea is I want to hire, but I feel like I don't want to like be too stretchy when it comes to spending more money.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Does she believe that?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, well, she basically looks at the fact that she believes money compounds and it will make her more money.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Great discrepancy.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that contrast, I find my job is basically to be a mirror and show them what they're actually doing right now that they can't see.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when I do it even to myself, it's confronting because it's so easy to stay in your story.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why the person who shows you the mirror is often a tough conversation because you have to actually acknowledge wow, there's a huge gap.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: No wonder I don't have the results I want.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was literally saying this exact same thing with the contrast to a client in Telegram on the way here.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you're saying this, but what you're doing is this.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually said, I'm like, I have this conversation with myself all the time.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm radically honest.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, this is what I say.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is what where it's not matching.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I take responsibility of like perfect.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no shame and judgment.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes also when people do that, it's confronting.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe they go into shame of like, well, I guess I'm not enough and I'm just this.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's also, I think, your ability to do that without going into shame and judgment of the discrepancies that you do find.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that like the inner judgment piece, I think releasing that is part of why some people scale so fast.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are somebody that makes a mistake or you have just like a lack of judgment or you make the wrong call, what do you believe to be true about yourself after that happens?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, the part that I did keep of the masculine is everything is like is just evidence.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like even personally, like when I have massive things that just did not go my way.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was in a relationship for nine years and I ended the engagement.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of people, they're like, oh my God, that's this huge failure.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I'm like, that was so much evidence that I needed.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I needed that to happen to learn so many things.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that people don't like that I talk about the problems you're experiencing are just literally an indication of progress.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the business owners that have that perspective of just like things happen.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't judge myself.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's one foot in front of the other.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just keep moving.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Versus someone who says, see, it's not working in my favor, see, it's hard, like this isn't gonna work, it's never gonna turn for me.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: The literal perception of the problem in front of you is literally the only difference of whether you're going to scale because it changes the resources that you can then tap into to solve that thing in front of you.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you actually operate in a different brain state.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the other one, like your brain goes into more into survival, into pressure, into overwhelm.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You actually you don't have like access to your prefrontal cortex.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not as creative, you're not as innovative.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: You probably won't take as many risks because you believe it's not gonna work because it didn't work last time and you've all this proof and past evidence.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Perception, I think, is I think a hundred percent why some people scale fast, yeah, and some people don't with a perception, that kind of like light bulb in my mind of something I've seen you see.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about perception in terms of knowing your lane.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love this.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain like uh explain to us the knowing your lane in terms of mass market premium and luxury?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, oh, I love Kate's content.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh man.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do think it's important because some it's so important.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: People have to know, and I say this to clients, I'm like, if you want to be a$47 ebook,$97 membership, that's fine.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just know your lane.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like, let's double down on that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't if you mix the lane.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll let you speak your genius because like yeah, okay.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for anyone who's not familiar, basically there's three different types of brands.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally want you to think of like a pyramid, you have like the big part at the bottom and the small part at the top.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so the big part at the bottom is considered a mass market brand.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Think about your like your Walmart, your target.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: The main objective is to literally serve, as it sounds, the masses.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is for somebody who has an online brand, that's going to be something like a course, like you're saying, an ebook, a digital product.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I think is even outside of what it is you offer, you have to really ask yourself, who am I trying to serve?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are someone who's like, I want to help everybody, you can do that, but you have to stay in your lane.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's when you start to get to the place where like I want to serve everybody and I want to charge$100,000 for my packages.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, now we have a discrepancy here.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be the Walmart and decide that everything on the shelf is going to be$100 or above.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: There is an expectation when someone comes into your ecosystem, your brand, your world of what your pricing is going to be.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are a mass market brand, you have to stay in your lane.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the thing is, there's this misconception when it comes to mass market brands because they're not premium or luxury, that they're not effective or that they're not high level.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, no.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I will be very on Amazon is a very successful company.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are somebody that's at a place where you're like, well, I don't want, I want to be premium, I want to be luxury.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: There is a massive amount of people that are served by mass market brands.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's why it's the base of the triangle.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to think about, you know, where do you want the trigger for your brand to be?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when someone's buying into mass market, they're buying into the actual product itself.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're going to have people that are asking about what it comes with, how you get the outcome.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a lot of nuts and bolts.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something you want to personally.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my, you know, cup of tea personally.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the person is really going to care about the fact that they're like, I really want to understand the product for the price because they're very price conscious.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to know with Walmart that if something on the Walmart shelf is too expensive, you're going to be like, this doesn't make sense.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it this price?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: You instantly go into questioning.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the second tier is considered to be premium, which gets misconstrued with luxury, which is probably like the most frustrating thing for me because everyone says I'm a luxury brand, but I think they make their premium.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: 2% of people actually know what a luxury brand is.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So premium, you want to think almost like Stanley.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: A Stanley water bottle, at least being Canadian, is typically around 65 bucks, 50 to 65 bucks.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to a Target, a winner's, something like that, and buy a water bottle for$20.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't need to be spending$65.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: The reason that we do that is partially brand, yes, but there's this aspect of it'll keep your drink cold for 72 hours.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's considered to be this like premium experience of the same thing, which is water.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: The water market is the easiest example when it comes to premium.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can have a Voss water that's like$8, or you can have like an Aquafina that's a dollar 20.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: The only difference around those two things is brand and the perception or sometimes the reality of a higher level product being there.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the only two triggers when it comes to premium are basically that you have a higher level brand perception, or the actual product itself is better.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is like, in my opinion, where I sit because I don't, I wouldn't say that I'm luxury, which I'll explain, but I wouldn't say I'm luxury.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I'm premium because we're not the highest ticket that exists on the market, but we're definitely also not the lowest.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that we are a really good product.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that kind of sits in that middle space.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: The sweet spot why I tell people you actually sometimes don't want to be luxury, you want to be premium.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has a Stanley.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So like it's a small step of this inner decision to say, I am premium by buying that product.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit similar to luxury, sometimes there is this aspect of status when we have a Stanley versus the target water bottle, which would be the mass market.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, luxury is the one that everyone misconstrues.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: They think that if you have bougie branding and if you have any level of high-ticket offer, I'm a luxury brand.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Your branding is not what makes you luxury.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Every single luxury brand has the same trigger, which is technically status.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are somebody who buys like a Chanel bag or any major label that is associated with being luxury, you do not ask about the stitching.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't ask about the interior of the bag.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like, I hold this and that means something about me.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when you see people who have labels on them, part of that is not them wondering how it was made.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is like they believe in that brand and what that symbolizes, it means something to them when they can buy that.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So as a luxury brand, what you're truly actually selling is status.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the thing that is the caveat to being a successful luxury brand.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone can sit with you and you have to disqualify as much as you qualify.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So this means if you had, let's just say, a hundred people walking around a Chanel store, it wouldn't feel like Chanel.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you walk into a Chanel store, there's not tons of traffic in there, and that's the idea.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: It means something to be in here.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So part of being luxury is also this idea that you have to understand because you are status, you will not be liked nor bought from from 90% of the market.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But that's because you are only serving that 10%.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: That 10%, though, is so high ticket and so expensive that you sometimes can match the sales of the other 90% of the market.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the reason you need to know it is because if you don't know what tier you're in, you don't know why people are buying from you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know how to market to that trigger and you don't know how to brand according to it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So usually I can tell from a mile away if someone doesn't know because they've got really bougie branding.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But then maybe it's like I have a$47 offer and you get unlimited access to me.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what's going on here?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's three different types of triggers all happening at the same time.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you get into alignment, that's when you actually start to call on the people you want to be working with, regardless of what stage you're at.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what's important is that there one isn't necessarily better than the other.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to choose your lane.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, premium is not necessarily better than luxury, luxury not better than mass.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just pick your lane, stick with it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go back and forth.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, be consistent.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And know that when you choose the pros slash cons, like you're just be aware of both sides and like, all right, I'm going with both of those.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hard thing though, because when you're in a season where you want to make more sales, it's like someone's dangling a carrot in front of you because you're like, well, if I just make something a little bit more premium pricing, then more people will buy it, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of if you're too high of investment as a luxury brand, you're like, oh, like if I want to make more sales, maybe this is too expensive.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go down.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: You have to commit to the market that you're in.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And also in the contrast, if you're typically lower priced offers and you think, well, I want to make more money, I'm gonna increase my rates now, you just move yourself out of mass market.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the point where it really, really matters, and I find where people oftentimes switch is when they're in these moments where they just recognize like, I want to leverage this, even though it's not a choice.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I'm technically making.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, two questions.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: One, how so someone will know their premium if they're like the Stanley, the Aritzia versus like the Chanel, the Gior.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: What do you say about someone either from luxury deciding that, oh, now I actually want premium and making a switch maybe once or mass market up to premium?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you have to say about someone who wants to switch?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're having an unlock.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, maybe I've been in here, but what I really want is to be in here.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say double down?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say switch once?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are your thoughts on that?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely can't switch all the time.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're someone who's in, let's just say luxury and then to go to premium and then go back to luxury, like I it definitely won't work.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Your audience will be like, there's they're not even sure.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm definitely not sure.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that anybody wants when they're consuming from a brand is consistency.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's why, you know, for example, like in the political changes, companies will try to tailor their marketing and their advertising to what's happening in the political climate.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it kills their brand.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because there has been this expectation, let's just say, of the message being, for example, purposes blue, and they switch it to red because it's convenient for the times and they kill their brand.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it is really important to have consistency.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can tailor, I'm always a big fan of like small pivots versus big leaps.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, do I think you should go from like a luxury to mass market?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a totally new brand at that point.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very difficult, very difficult switch to make.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think truthfully, the deciding factor if you want to stay luxury or not is do you want to sell status?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it really comes down to.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are, you have to acknowledge when you are a luxury brand, you are not selling anything other than status.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you are someone who's actually selling premium, you're selling the achievement, the outcome, the quality of what they're getting, which feels like to them it's a luxurious purchase, i.e., for someone who holds a Stanley versus the$10 water bottle, it feels like it's better than the other water bottle, but it's not Chanel, meaning it doesn't actually necessarily mean a status thing per se about you.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just better quality.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So think about premium as top quality.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Luxury, the only trigger is the fact that you're giving status.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's technically, um, if someone's really like nerding out on branding, you can search this up or AI this, there's different types of brand archetypes.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them is called the ruler archetype.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually what luxury brands are.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: They literally sell you the idea that only if you buy our product can you sit with us.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know in business, some people have mixed feelings about that, of the idea of like, well, you can only sit with us if you can pay to get in the room.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to understand that that is a marketing trigger.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is a that is a brand strategy.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's not just someone online who's using this as manipulation.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually happening in society right now.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just something you're not as maybe comfortable with or see as much when it comes to online business.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Could you give us an example of luxury that isn't uh like a physical product, like a Dior or Chanel?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like in terms of people who sell services or someone who sells like coaching and everything like that, luxury status would have to be attached to the name of the company, correct?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that means something about you when you do it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So think about um, okay, perfect example would be Uber.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you take an Uber, you've got the base, base, base level Uber.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: You'll literally see mass market premium and luxury in the Uber app.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see the normal one that you'll take, you'll see the ones a little bit more expensive because it has extra leg room.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got the SUV that's what temperature would you like and what conversation do you want?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or like business class, first class seats on like a plane.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got, you know, normal seats, extra leg room, and then you've got first class seats.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that there's always these tiers naturally in a lot of different um areas that we are exposed to.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's just depending typically on what category you're already buying in, you already have an association with one of the tiers being your life and your reality.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's harder to spot them because you're always hanging out in your tier.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question and I want you to be really honest.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not what you think is true, but like true honesty.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Which tier is the easiest to sell?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't think there is one, to be honest.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely don't believe that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't think that there is, I don't think there is one because I think well, obviously the basis of business perspective would be if you sell to people with money, you're typically gonna have an easier time.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Alex Hermosy, don't sell to people in the middle.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: You typically, to be fair, I think that's true.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think selling people in the middle is more challenging.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you pick a, but also I think maybe premium can be on the end.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: To me, there's almost something between mass and premium.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: That like if you try to go, maybe it's what you were saying, people who are uh that middle point is where actually where people try to be both mass and premium.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I think that's where the conflict is, is though he should be like, no, it's not in the middle.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's when you try to confuse mass and premium in the same.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: That I think is the hardest.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think as if I was an online business, I would probably say premium or luxury, you're gonna have a much easier time scaling your company.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're selling identity and status.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing all of us literally just on a human level desire that.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: All of us want a better life, all of us want to be a higher level person in the sense of either our achievements, relationship, financial.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a natural, think about the basics of hierarchy of needs, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of status is literally at the top of the hierarchy of needs.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about achievement or self-fulfillment, that is something that all of us are naturally wired to want.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I probably would say if you were an online business, it'd be premier luxury.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't necessarily say it's easier.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would just say that you have to kind of know what your scaling plan is.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think people go in with this idea that they want volume until they have volume.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then they realize, okay, never mind.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't want this volume business.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want something else instead.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot about triggers.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you talk a lot about psychological triggers.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what is it, I think eight of them.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean, I'm guessing there's probably there's so many, yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: But to me, there's also certain psychological triggers that are better for certain lanes.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the scarcity trigger is not gonna, not in the same way in terms of like we're selling out boxing Black Friday thingy.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: As Chanel, you're not gonna like, well, okay, think Hermes.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you only scarcity, it's a different kind of scarcity.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I feel like I could talk to you for hours.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, don't go.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you only have scarcity, basically means that there's a limited amount of something that we therefore naturally, because there is a limited amount of it, or if it's going to be going away, or if it's scarce, that we have a natural desire to have it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when something is in abundance, we actually don't want it as much.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So brands press that button consistently within their marketing to actually make you want it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So Hermes has a really smart strategy when they say we've only made four of these bags or 12 of these bags exist on the world.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: You want that bag because you're like, if I own that bag, do you know what that means about me?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's only 12 of these in the world, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they use this idea of there's a scarce amount of these available to make you want it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, exactly to your point, if you're the mass marketer though, the scarce is the idea of we have 10 spots left.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So this idea of, you know, we have um uh limited pricing.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, 1997 and we dropped it to 997 and it's done at midnight.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want this, it's that aspect of urgency or scarce of spots.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So both of those are different triggers.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: The urgency of it's going away or scarce as in there's not an abundance or a certain amount of them.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it actually does technically show up at each one of the tiers.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just but it just shows up differently.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that's crazy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we should be using all of them consistently consistently at the level and making it match the level or the lane that we're playing in.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cause sometimes I feel like people use the trigger, but they don't use it in the way that matches the lane that they're in.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then that can create confusion.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if Dior had like a 997, it would just or the FOMO, the scarcity.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give us some other examples of things you've seen where people have used either the the wrong psychological trigger or the wrong psychological trigger in the wrong way for that lane?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like some of the big ones you see that online that I guarantee you probably scroll Instagram, you're like, why is this person doing this?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, one of the ones I would say is like a really easy one is social proof.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: All of us know that we need social proof within uh all of our marketing and any of our content.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, okay, well, how do we do that?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So again, think about what the trigger is first within your category.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: So one of it is proof of product.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are a mass market, I need proof that your product physically works, meaning that this actually gets me the outcome that I want.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's something that, yeah, okay, great.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna help me to know that it works, but it's not really gonna get me bought in on any aspect of it being a premium experience, that it's getting me this aspect of like tapping into a new identity, a very luxury feel to it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's just about the product.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: The product got them this outcome.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is the process of how we did it, and that's that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: The second, if we go into more of a premium bucket and we're looking at social proof, we're looking at this a little bit more from the aspect of the actual identity of the person and how they've shifted.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at maybe the the way in which they were supported, the results that they got, the achievements that they were able to get to.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit more about the actual outcome than it is the actual product.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, luxury, the only thing I need to verify in luxury is they achieve the status that I told you they would.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if let's just say for me as a business coach, I was trying to market luxury.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to market who has this person like tapped into becoming that they couldn't have become without my offer.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever, and I I watch people online all the time, some of them have like, I don't know how to say it, like an energy.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just like they have this very commanding, authoritative energy.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that people desire when they buy into their offers is like, I just want to be, I want to be like them.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just want to be in their energy, I want to be like them.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so much so that you will buy into their offer and you have no idea what you get.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are people who sell things right now, who put things online and give people an invitation and they don't even know what the deliverables are, and they're like, I'll take it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've sold mystery offers.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like that's a luxury trigger.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a luxury trigger.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because what that means is technically, and there's also another trigger to this, which is authority.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, authority, for anyone who's not familiar as a marketing trigger, basically means if I put on a white coat, you're gonna think I'm a doctor.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's just this natural, indirect perception that you're gonna have without needing the evidence to verify it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, same thing if I put on a police uniform, you're going to think the same thing.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's this aspect of I don't ask questions.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: If I see blank, I trust it to be true.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: The same thing is true when we consume from brands online.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have certain triggers you see in certain people that if you see them, you believe a certain thing to be true.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to, for example, if you have a secret offer, what it means is that your natural, you being you, which is a natural thing for you, you being you has a natural perceived authority to it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have certain traits, certain things that people see within you that they believe to mean something to them.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it means that they don't need to know how many calls they get.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need to know what the price is, they don't need to know the features and like what's the process and the pipeline, all those things.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, I know that she is a quote unquote doctor at what it is that she does as a transformation or that lawyer or whatever that kind of automatic authority is.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so they don't question when a police officer comes up to help them, oh my gosh, but are you qualified?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see your qualifications.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, I trust you.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: The same thing is happening with those mystery offers.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're transferring authority in a way that is natural in the way that you're embodied, that allows someone to go, I can't really explain it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel safe here.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And some people have a difficult time with that because they don't have that embodiment, if I could put it directly.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have that embodiment.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a result, they end up typically struggling to get to that luxury, luxury place with authority because they're not embodied.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: They actually have to explain who they are versus being who they are.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's where people feel, I guess, that they have to overexplain or they're trying to overperform, jump through hoops.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they're using some of those triggers, but they're using them from a place of see, look, look at my social proof, or they create fake urgency or fake scarcity.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which actually erodes the trust and erodes the authority.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are someone who says I have five spots left eight times, it actually tells me, again, you're not having to say that I can't trust you.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're just being yourself and I'm picking up cues that I can't trust you.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because what it is is like you have this perception in your mind of what is considered to be credible and authoritative.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if the way in which you're showing up online doesn't have those same cues that that person's looking for in their brain, it can't close that loop, which means they can't invest with you.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you need to make a reels series on this.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it would blow up.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it would be so good.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's so in they honestly, it's kind of scary when you think about it to know that wait a second, so-and-so got me using this trigger.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's very effective.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mind.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love no, because I think some of people will be like, oh, they but they sold me like this.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, I like that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mind being mystery because I'm like, no, I do trust you.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're authoritative.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love it.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big one.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's another big one that you see people do online that kind of makes you want to like rip your hair out?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the ones that I think is kind of getting a little bit attacked right now, which is like the way that things have shifted online, is this aspect of reciprocity.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because technically speaking, when we when we give within our marketing, the more you give, like if you are somebody who's consumed like a Gary V jab, jab, jab, right hook type of situation, there's actually a marketing principle to that, which is the more that you give, basically the more in debt people feel towards you.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of content going out of like education content is dead, value is dead, like in the sense of just helping people and serving them and supporting them through social media, no longer is effective.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally think it's absolutely ridiculous because the basis of principle of marketing is that if you add value to somebody, you are increasing the debt they feel to you.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have an ask, they want to fill that gap.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if someone constantly brings you gifts every single Friday and you never have anything ready for them and you're like, oh my God, they call you and they say, Hey, I could really use your help next Friday.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I'm there.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: They've been giving you gifts for two weeks straight every single Friday.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, now they need something for me.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, I can reciprocate.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think a lot of brands do wrong right now is this idea that, oh, well, I don't need to, you know, over educate.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Education is dead or value is dead.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is your goal is to increase the debt of the person that owes you when it comes to how much you pour into them.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So even with this podcast, this pours into people where they can listen to you and listen to you and listen to you.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are someone that then randomly says, Hey guys, if you could make sure to like and subscribe to the podcast, it would mean a lot to me.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're someone who's been listening to this podcast for six months and you haven't done that, you're like, it's the least I could do.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to her for six months.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that basically is a debt that all of us feel when someone pours into us.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: So what actually happens now because people are pulling away from education content or value content basically means that because we are not pouring into people, we don't actually have the right nor the effectiveness in the ask.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So this is leading to people selling, selling, selling, selling, selling all the time and then wondering why people aren't moving.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you haven't actually given this person anything.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that you've done is ask, even though you've never actually provided to them in any way.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually love that you bring this up because I feel like I, especially over the last, what is it, however long, six months of 2026, I'm so tired of content that's basically the whole thing is just them selling pitch or like a pitch or all it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I understand problem awareness, but it I I kind of agree with what you're saying, is basically what I'm saying.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just I feel like it's gone so much the other way that it's well, like if you think argue, I guess, that some of that content is value, but I I think we we pendulum swinged.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I that that's that's what I think it is.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the pendulum swing where we completely remove the educational and like that's dead.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And like, no, no, this is dead.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, now this is dead.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, is any of it really dead, or did we just need to have like a nice melange or like a nice mix of it versus like pendulum swinging everywhere?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's the interesting thing.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you actually know how to do value properly, you're always selling.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, 30 seconds ago, I mentioned the fact that if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't subscribed, or if you haven't followed.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, by the way.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Can't imagine right, can't imagine that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: What I actually was doing in that moment was actually selling to your audience, using that as an example, because then the person listening to this goes, Oh, yeah, I haven't done that.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: They felt, as I said that, this debt to be, I should do that right now.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I should do that tonight, I should do that today, I should like and subscribe.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't pitch, I didn't call to action and say, and by the way, now that I mentioned that, make sure to like and subscribe.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just left that there and I left it as an open loop.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so because I left it as an open loop, everyone's natural tendency in being human is to close those loops.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think has shifted, it used to be teach, teach, teach, and now it's sell, sell, sell.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, I hate being sold to, like in a way that feels like do better, in the sense of the idea of have better skills in the way you sell.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: If it is just constant, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care about you selling to me, by the way.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love sales.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was in high-ticket sales, I'm obsessed with it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I like good salespeople.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love a good salespeople.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love I get off on a good even at like a Costco, yeah, like a Vitamix guy and he's in it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, sell to me.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: When someone does a really good job, I fro like I love a good sales.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, like even um Kelsey on our team and I were at a wedding, and someone asked me a question.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would, I afterwards realized that I was being sold to.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I do sales.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like so disappointed in myself.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like we're at we're at this wedding.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so he asks a question.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Hey, like, do you do you work out?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I go to CrossFit.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, with that, how often do you go?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we're just chatting, right?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're just at a wedding, we're casual, there's nothing happening.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, you know what?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, yeah, I go, you know, not as often as I should.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he's, oh, you don't enjoy it.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, it's my schedule, it's just really crazy with work.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, if you ever want to come to a session with me, why don't we just do a session together and I can run you through what I do?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, well, like I'm not, you know, like I'm not looking to like change or all this stuff.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Fast forward, I am now his client for the last two weeks.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think is what I loved about the way that he did it though, is he was in normal conversation.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: No one at the table would have ever thought anything was happening.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize till I got in the car to go home that I go, oh my God.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: He got me.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: He got me with this idea of question, isolate the problem, get an understanding of what matters to me, insert a solution, close it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he put it on the calendar before we left the wedding.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And two days later, I had an in-person session.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing that I think is the part why people are like not loving selling right now or even potentially consuming right now is because the people who are selling are selling the way that it used to work in 2020.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's just it's not effective anymore.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think now the bar has become so much higher because when COVID happened, everybody started making content.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so everyone started an online business.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's such a surge of people that joined.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a fall since then, but there's still quite a few people.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what it means is that the actual quality of what you produce and how you sell and how you invite, and all these pieces needs to be better.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the caliber has gotten higher.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And truthfully, the people that are selling the most right now are the people who can do it and you don't even know it's happening.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can do that, every piece you consume is going to feel valuable, even though they're actually selling you in every word they're saying.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm nodding because I had this unlock where, especially in the last, like I said, six months, I've started to like really study people in terms of how I like when they sell.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it, I'm like, they are selling the entire time, but nobody sees it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like I never used to see it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you actually look at it, I'm like, you're a genius.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, kudos to you because that was exquisite.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was art.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the thing too.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you become knowledgeable about marketing and sales, you have a masterclass in marketing and sales everywhere you go.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: So people say, like, I don't like to sell.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, you know, someone who wants to bother people.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like overly pitching or overly selling.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Do you ever buy pumpkin spice lattes?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you've been sold to.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a promotion.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Yeah, but it's just, it's on the menu.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, no, you're being promoted that.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is a branded product that comes once a year, that has urgency and scarcity around it that is causing you to buy that drink.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: If it was available all year, you wouldn't, you wouldn't get excited when the leaves fall and be like, pumpkin spice is coming.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that actually is something that is rooted in brand and marketing and sales.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: You just see it as, oh, okay, well, it's a pumpkin spice latte or Amazon.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: When they send you an email and they say, Hey, did you forget this in your cart and you end up buying it, or your favorite online clothing store.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's not just like, oh, they were really thinking of me.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that is right.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is something that is rooted again in like marketing and sales psychology.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: So once you understand it, the exciting part is you literally go through the world seeing things very, very differently.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't look at a business or a brand the same way.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is because you see the marketing and sales.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the best part is if you understand the principles, you see the marketing and sales that you can take for yourself.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: So even for me, I watch brands like a like a Starbucks or an F 45 or any of those things.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I will just look at what they're doing and go, oh my God, this is genius.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, kind of like you're saying, oh my God, this is genius.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you start Kind of see behind what the masses see, that's when business gets super, super fun.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cause then the world becomes your masterclass and what to do.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think it is super fun.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think when you actually see it, start to understand and start to you're like, it just opens up a whole new world.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're gonna close off this episode, is the most important thing whether you're at mass market, premium, luxury, that people should be thinking about to improve how they sell.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it seems basic, but it's probably something that they're still not applying.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of sales is still extremely selfish.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: The brands and the businesses that crush are not actually thinking of themselves.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're always thinking the consumer.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when I see people selling online and it's like, I did blank, I did X, unless that is comma, here's what you can take from that.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a great person to follow if you kind of want to nerd out on brand.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Donald Miller, he wrote the story brand.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that book.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh, such so good.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good Bible for branding.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things he talks about is you can't be the hero of your client's story.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I think a lot of people in the online space get so wrong is this idea of I am your hero.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am the product.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are simply the messenger.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: You are simply the person who is translating that awareness, translating that clarity.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: You are not the person who is, I am the best, therefore, because nobody wants to feel disempowered.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Every single person who buys needs to feel empowered in order to buy.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I feel like a lot of people are getting wrong, regardless of what category you're in, is that you're looking at this as to, okay, what do I say about myself, about my offer, about me, me, me, me, me the entire time.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And what I, it's a tiny switch, but it literally makes sales take off.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is like if you couldn't talk about yourself and your messaging, how would you make this about the person who's consuming?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or I ask people, even if I just audit their marketing, I say, why should someone even care about the story?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're telling this.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's the takeaway?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't mind you sharing your story.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think you should share your brand story.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think you should talk about your results, but it has to be rooted in this aspect of what is the takeaway for the consumer?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or are they simply consuming you for entertainment?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because yes, there is this like relatable versus aspirational kind of um, you know, spectrum.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is, just because someone aspires to be you doesn't mean that they feel like they that you understand them.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that brands that really crush, if you're like premium and luxury, you're not, you're not relatable.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay that you're not relatable.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, even though they aspire to be you, they don't feel belittled by you.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like they understand your needs.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even Chanel, or, you know, if you go to get get like Cartier jewelry, they're giving you champagne when you enter.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, they know the kind of experience that I want, right?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like they get me.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about understanding the customer and what it is that they desire.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think where brands are going wrong right now, and even just businesses in general, is they're making sales about themselves.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I find one of the things that I have to pivot is like, this was never and is never going to be about you.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: You are simply the messenger, the person who's relaying the transformation, relaying the clarity, relaying the aha moment and giving them that light bulb.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: If they associate you with that light bulb, that's all you need.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need you to be the light bulb.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be associated with them having the light bulb.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can switch that, you would with the same brand, the same everything, same offer, same everything.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can have such insane amounts of sales by just switching it and realizing it was never about you in the first place.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: I literally sent a message to a client being like, your business is not about you.
• 47:54
  unknown: Yes.
• 47:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love you, but it's not about you.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's bigger than you.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like, even energetically, because then when you make that switch energetically, then it shows up in how you market and how you sell and how you content.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: I even noticed there was a time a few years ago where maybe I had bought into the fact that, you know, you sell with your achievements and look how much money I made.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: And even the people I brought in using that kind of marketing, awful.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: When I took that out, yes.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then people still know, but I've had people say to me, I love to buy from you because I know you make a lot of money, but you don't like flash that in my face all the time as a reason why I should hire you.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I hire you.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's this idea, like as an analogy for it.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think about it like at 40 or like sorry, um, 75 hard.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: 75 hard, everybody loves the idea of who they can become, but then you get into it and you realize if I'm not bought in this process, I'm never gonna survive this.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Two workouts a day, multiple pages read a day.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's strenuous.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think a good salesperson does is they get people through their marketing before the sales opportunity even happens to get as bought in on what it takes to get there.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like even with your marketing and your content, part of what's happening is you're creating invitations for people to decide are they truly who they need to be in order to become what you can help them to achieve.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a level of their own individual commitment that is required before they even come into your world.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you market only your results and it never had any of that messaging in it, it means that they're like, oh, I want to be like her.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it takes.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have no understanding of what's required.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't committed to anything to do that.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just want the outcome.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can be her, sure, okay, take my money.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Then they get in and they don't want to do the work, they don't have the mindset, they don't have the habits, the values, the routines, and you're like, I don't understand.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this happening?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you sold them the destination.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't actually sell the bridge.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the bridge is something where basically, through your marketing and your content, indirectly, you have these little tiny commitments that they are making.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: When they say yes to a reel that you posted about a perspective and they say, I resonate with that.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're one step closer to being you.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: The next thing that you say of a polarizing opinion, you're either this person or that person.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: If they say, I'm the person on the left, now I'm one step closer to being her.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: So what you've done is you've actually used your marketing to help them become the person that you want to work with.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of letting them come into the sales process, buy, and now you're like, I have to spend the first 90 days just getting your head right so that I can get you the outcome that I know is possible.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you just articulated that so beautifully.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: For like, I love marketing.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love marketing, I love branding.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I could talk to you for hours because I find you so fascinating.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: You need to make more content about this because I've been like absolutely obsessed with your content the last, I don't know, month, whatever it has been.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know everyone's gonna have so many ahas from this.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Even I've had ahas.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love your brain.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you see this.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, thank you for sharing all of this with us today.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I can nerd out on this for hours.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like same like with our conversation, like time flies by, flies by.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was great.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget, as Keys said, to leave her rating and review.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna leave all of her information down below.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you go follow her on Instagram.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Consume all of this content because it's so like I'm saving so much of it.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Go save it.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you guys in the next episode.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.