Latest / Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman / Dr. Michael Guillén – The Invisible Everywhere

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Dr. Michael Guillén – The Invisible Everywhere · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

0:05
Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension.
0:14
Speaker 1: Vox Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from
0:19
Speaker 1: their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
0:23
Speaker 1: rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
0:28
Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice. As a scientist and committed atheist,
0:40
Speaker 1: Doctor Michael Gigan used to believe that reality is limited
0:44
Speaker 1: to what can be observed and measured. His guiding principle
0:49
Speaker 1: was seeing is believing. That conviction began to unravel when
0:54
Speaker 1: he looked to empirical science for answers to life's biggest questions.
0:59
Speaker 1: Did the cosmos begin? Where is the mind located? How
1:04
Speaker 1: did life on Earth begin? Is there life after death?
1:08
Speaker 1: Are we alone? And finally, does God exist? Through physics,
1:13
Speaker 1: cosmology and rigorous inquiry, Doctor Gean reached a conclusion that
1:18
Speaker 1: stunned him. Modern science does not eliminate God. It clearly
1:23
Speaker 1: points to him. Doctor Michael Gean is a world class
1:27
Speaker 1: scientist and communicator. He holds a doctorate from Cornell University
1:31
Speaker 1: in physics, astronomy, and mathematics. For years, he was an
1:36
Speaker 1: award winning physics instructor at Harvard University and the Emmy
1:40
Speaker 1: Award winning Science editor for ABC News. His search for
1:45
Speaker 1: God led him to use AI to create a groundbreaking
1:49
Speaker 1: eighty minute documentary, The Invisible Everywhere, Believing Is Seeing. It
1:55
Speaker 1: was created entirely with consumer grade AI tools by doctor
1:59
Speaker 1: Gian alone on his home computer, no Hollywood studio, no
2:04
Speaker 1: Hollywood crew. Opening to rave reviews at the Invisible Everywhere
2:09
Speaker 1: dot com, the film uses stunning visuals to tell the
2:13
Speaker 1: story of how modern science dismantled doctor Gian's atheism. He
2:18
Speaker 1: joins me to share his amazing and inspiring path. Please
2:23
Speaker 1: join me in welcoming to Vox Novis, Doctor Michael Gian. Welcome,
2:28
Speaker 1: Doctor g.
2:30
Speaker 2: Well, Victor, thank you so much.
2:32
Speaker 3: I'm really honored and I'm overjoyed to be on your podcast.
2:36
Speaker 3: Looking forward to our conversation. Thank you for inviting me
2:39
Speaker 3: as am I.
2:40
Speaker 1: Doctor g you hold a PhD from Cornell University in physics, astronomy,
2:45
Speaker 1: and mathematics. For years, you were an award winning physics
2:50
Speaker 1: instructor at Harvard University and the Emmy Award winning science
2:54
Speaker 1: editor for ABC US. You also were an atheist. Why
2:59
Speaker 1: and how did you, a world renowned scientist, go from
3:03
Speaker 1: being an atheist to a Christian.
3:07
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to condense decades decades into like a
3:12
Speaker 3: minute or two, okay, Victor. So the short story is,
3:15
Speaker 3: I was born in East Los Angeles and fell madly
3:18
Speaker 3: in love with science in the second grade. And I
3:22
Speaker 3: lived by the motto of any self respecting would be
3:25
Speaker 3: scientist seeing as believing. If I can't see it, I
3:29
Speaker 3: don't want to believe it. And I also live by
3:31
Speaker 3: the model prove it. If you can't prove something to me,
3:34
Speaker 3: I'm not going to believe it. So I was basically
3:36
Speaker 3: even at that age, imagine Victor, I was this little hardcore, hardcore,
3:42
Speaker 3: nerdy scientific atheist. It wasn't that I had anything against
3:45
Speaker 3: God have. I was never then or now a rabid atheist,
3:52
Speaker 3: you know, an angry atheist as I call them. It
3:54
Speaker 3: just God wasn't on my radar. Science was my all
3:57
Speaker 3: consuming love, and really it's turned out to be my God.
4:01
Speaker 3: So yes, I was an atheist. And it really wasn't
4:04
Speaker 3: until I got to grad school at Cornell many decades later,
4:08
Speaker 3: or two decades later. I was in my mid twenties
4:13
Speaker 3: when I discovered that I was dead wrong seeing as
4:16
Speaker 3: believing and with prove it, and we can dive into
4:19
Speaker 3: that if you wish. But that really was the inflection
4:22
Speaker 3: point in my journey from atheism to believing in God.
4:26
Speaker 3: And it was a shock to me. It's not at
4:30
Speaker 3: all what I expected. I expected that my science would
4:34
Speaker 3: lead me from this notion of God, would lead me
4:38
Speaker 3: away from faith, which at that time I perceived as
4:41
Speaker 3: a weakness, not as strength. I felt logic was the
4:45
Speaker 3: superior way of living. So yeah, in this movie that
4:50
Speaker 3: we're going to be discussing the Invisible Everywhere is basically
4:54
Speaker 3: a synopsis of that journey. But anyway, that's it, in
4:58
Speaker 3: a nutshell victory, that's how I went from really atheism
5:01
Speaker 3: to believe in God. And as I say, it was
5:04
Speaker 3: science that shattered my atheism and opened my eyes and
5:07
Speaker 3: mind to the existence of God. It's been quite a journey,
5:11
Speaker 3: not the one I expected.
5:12
Speaker 1: Tell us a little talked about a deep dive. Tell
5:15
Speaker 1: us a little bit more about the experience.
5:16
Speaker 3: Please, Yes, Well, I think that when I look back
5:22
Speaker 3: at my life, and there were moments when there were
5:27
Speaker 3: these moments, and I think for me, I was very precocious.
5:33
Speaker 2: I taught myself.
5:35
Speaker 3: The special theory of relativity. I think it was probably
5:39
Speaker 3: in middle school, right around then, and for me that
5:46
Speaker 3: was an eye opening experience because what I discovered is
5:49
Speaker 3: that Einstein's theory was telling us there are hidden worlds
5:54
Speaker 3: out there, and I talk about this in the movie.
5:58
Speaker 3: And for me that was a real shocker because, as
6:02
Speaker 3: I said, I lived by the motto scene is believing,
6:04
Speaker 3: so to be confronted with evidence and from Albert Einstein
6:09
Speaker 3: no less that in fact there were these hidden worlds,
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Speaker 3: worlds that exist in space time that I cannot see
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Speaker 3: and can never access. They have names like the Elsewhere,
6:21
Speaker 3: the light Cone, beyond the cosmic horizon. These are the
6:24
Speaker 3: names of these hidden worlds that I talk about in
6:27
Speaker 3: the movie I just had. That for me was traumatic
6:31
Speaker 3: because it meant I couldn't really continue living with the
6:35
Speaker 3: motto scene is believing, because I can't see these worlds
6:39
Speaker 3: and I want to believe Einstein. I wanted to believe
6:41
Speaker 3: the special theory of relativity.
6:43
Speaker 2: The other big.
6:44
Speaker 3: Aha moment I think came and this was the one
6:46
Speaker 3: I think that sealed the deal in terms of ditching
6:49
Speaker 3: my scene as believing motto. When I got to grad school,
6:53
Speaker 3: I was taught that in nineteen thirty three, an Austrian
6:56
Speaker 3: American astronomer by the name of Fritz Zwicky was studying
7:01
Speaker 3: galaxy clusters. These are just simply groupings of galaxies that
7:06
Speaker 3: spin around together like giant, slow moving merry grounds, and
7:11
Speaker 3: Zwicki was very curious to see how fast they were
7:15
Speaker 3: in fact spinning, and to his surprise, really his shock,
7:19
Speaker 3: these galaxy clusters were spinning far faster than they should be.
7:24
Speaker 3: In science, there's something called the virial theorem, and the
7:27
Speaker 3: them the theorem in a nutshell. Don't worry, I'm not
7:30
Speaker 3: going to get too crazy with the details. But the
7:32
Speaker 3: verial theorem relates an object's mass to the object's spin.
7:39
Speaker 3: So it was just a matter of a simple calculation
7:42
Speaker 3: on Zwicki's part that he observed the spin, and using
7:46
Speaker 3: the verial theorem, it inferred that these galaxy clusters should
7:50
Speaker 3: be far more massive than what they appeared to be.
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Speaker 3: So his inference was there must be some invisible form
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Speaker 3: of mass that is driving this x spin, and he
8:01
Speaker 3: didn't know what it was. He called it dunkel mattetier,
8:04
Speaker 3: which is German for dark matter. Well, here we are.
8:08
Speaker 3: That was nineteen thirty three. Here we are twenty twenty six,
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Speaker 3: and Victor we still don't know what that is. We
8:14
Speaker 3: just call it dark matter. But for me, as a
8:16
Speaker 3: young twenty something in grad school learning about dark matter
8:19
Speaker 3: for the first time, back then, we didn't call it
8:21
Speaker 3: so much dark matter. We called it the missing mass problem.
8:25
Speaker 3: But it again, it pretty much was the final nail
8:29
Speaker 3: in the coffin of that Scene is Believing motto. From
8:34
Speaker 3: then on, I felt that I had to ditch that
8:38
Speaker 3: modo because I can't see dark matter. I can't see
8:40
Speaker 3: these hidden worlds. Furthermore, I learned that ninety five percent
8:44
Speaker 3: of the observable universe is invisible in the form of
8:48
Speaker 3: dark matter and then dark energy. So the question in
8:51
Speaker 3: my mind was, all right, if I don't live by
8:53
Speaker 3: the motto Scene is Believing, what motto do I live by?
8:57
Speaker 3: So that's a whole nother story. But yeah, that's two
9:00
Speaker 3: more punctuation points in my journey.
9:04
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Before we get into your new film, The Invisible Everywhere,
9:08
Speaker 1: Believing is Seeing, let's talk a little bit about a
9:11
Speaker 1: couple of your books. Please tell us about your book
9:14
Speaker 1: Believing is Seeing, What inspired it and what do you
9:17
Speaker 1: share with your readers.
9:19
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. Some years ago I was touring college
9:27
Speaker 3: campuses around the world with doctor Rice Brooks, who wrote
9:33
Speaker 3: the book God's Not Dead and that book spawned several movies.
9:39
Speaker 3: And we were I think at the University of Michigan,
9:43
Speaker 3: and our routine was when we would arrive at a campus,
9:46
Speaker 3: usually the day before the event. The morning of the event,
9:52
Speaker 3: we would wake up and I would jog and doctor
9:57
Speaker 3: Brooks and I would then have coffee or tea. In
10:00
Speaker 3: the morning, we would pray over the campus that we
10:02
Speaker 3: were going to be speaking at that night. And on
10:05
Speaker 3: this particular morning, and I do think it was the
10:07
Speaker 3: University of Michigan, doctor Brooks said to me, you know,
10:11
Speaker 3: I've been on the stage with you now for some while,
10:14
Speaker 3: and I hear you talking about faith in a way
10:18
Speaker 3: I've never heard anyone else talk about faith.
10:22
Speaker 2: And he's mind you.
10:23
Speaker 3: He's been at this for forty plus years, and he's
10:26
Speaker 3: a very smart man.
10:28
Speaker 2: And so I.
10:29
Speaker 3: Didn't quite under I didn't quite know what he was
10:33
Speaker 3: getting at, because for me, my concept of faith was
10:38
Speaker 3: something that I had developed over the decades. It made
10:40
Speaker 3: sense to me as an intellectual and as a scientist,
10:43
Speaker 3: and by then as a Christian as well. So I said, oh, okay,
10:47
Speaker 3: he said well, no, no, He says, you need to
10:49
Speaker 3: write a book about it. He says, I've never heard
10:51
Speaker 3: anybody speak about faith the way you do, from a
10:54
Speaker 3: scientific point of view and a Christian point of view.
10:57
Speaker 3: And I said, well, I'm working on a novel, don't
11:00
Speaker 3: have the time. I basically resisted it. I didn't think
11:03
Speaker 3: there was anything to it. I didn't understand what was
11:06
Speaker 3: so special about what I was saying concerning faith. He
11:11
Speaker 3: pestered me and pestered me. Then my wife started pestering,
11:13
Speaker 3: and then my literary agent pestered me, and so I
11:16
Speaker 3: finally just I gave in. I said, all right, as
11:19
Speaker 3: soon as I'm done with this novel, the null prophecy
11:22
Speaker 3: I called it, I said, I'll do it. And that
11:25
Speaker 3: was the book believing the scene. That's why I dedicate
11:27
Speaker 3: the book to him. And you know, in retrospect, Victor,
11:31
Speaker 3: I'm glad I did the book. As soon as it
11:34
Speaker 3: was published by Tyndale, it shot to the top of
11:38
Speaker 3: the bestseller list on Amazon in several major categories, and
11:43
Speaker 3: more recently because of this movie. And now the book
11:46
Speaker 3: is almost five years old. It'll be five years old
11:49
Speaker 3: in September. But now that the movie came out last week.
11:54
Speaker 3: It's shot to number one, and it's number one in cosmology,
11:59
Speaker 3: number one in science and religion, and I think like
12:02
Speaker 3: number four or something like that in Christian apologetics. So
12:07
Speaker 3: that was the reason I wrote the book, Believing a Scene.
12:11
Speaker 3: And as I say, I'm glad I wrote it. Not
12:15
Speaker 3: just because it became a best seller. That's trivial to me.
12:17
Speaker 3: I really, that doesn't matter to me. What matters to
12:20
Speaker 3: me are the letters that I receive now daily from
12:24
Speaker 3: I mean literally people all over the world. I don't
12:27
Speaker 3: care if it's Hungry Thailand, India, Big in India, Portugal,
12:33
Speaker 3: I mean, Australia, on and on, a great Britain, Canada,
12:37
Speaker 3: on and on. And these people tell me just that
12:41
Speaker 3: this book has somehow changed their lives, that it's answered
12:45
Speaker 3: many of their questions, And for me, that makes the
12:50
Speaker 3: effort worthwhile.
12:50
Speaker 2: But you know.
12:53
Speaker 3: It's I don't take credit in a way. And this
12:58
Speaker 3: may sound strange, but I know it won't to you
13:01
Speaker 3: because you're I know you're you're a man of faith
13:04
Speaker 3: and you understand these things.
13:06
Speaker 2: On a deep level. But I just I to God alone.
13:10
Speaker 3: Be the glory. When I was younger, yeah, I was ambitious.
13:14
Speaker 3: I was climbing the ladder, you know. When I was
13:16
Speaker 3: at ABC News, I'm very competitive, you know. I wanted
13:19
Speaker 3: to get to the story before the NBC guy or
13:21
Speaker 3: the CBS guy.
13:23
Speaker 2: And so forth and so on.
13:25
Speaker 3: But now I'm a I'm of an age that I
13:29
Speaker 3: really just want to spend the rest of my life
13:33
Speaker 3: speaking truth as well as I understand it to be
13:37
Speaker 3: with love.
13:38
Speaker 2: And that's very important.
13:39
Speaker 3: Because sometimes people will speak truth but with hatefulness.
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Speaker 2: And I just don't. I don't. I don't like that.
13:47
Speaker 2: I don't accept that. I don't. I don't agree with that.
13:51
Speaker 3: But there are some people who speak love but without truth,
13:55
Speaker 3: and that's I think equally harmful. They want to spare
13:59
Speaker 3: people's feelings and so they go out of their way
14:01
Speaker 3: to distort reality and they don't speak truth. So right now,
14:06
Speaker 3: I guess, at this age that I'm at, my single
14:10
Speaker 3: motto is my calling in life is to speak truth
14:15
Speaker 3: with love. And that's what my movie's about, that's what
14:18
Speaker 3: my book is about, that's what this podcast and speaking
14:21
Speaker 3: with you. I just really want to be known as
14:25
Speaker 3: that person who speaks truth.
14:27
Speaker 2: With genuine love. I love.
14:31
Speaker 3: I don't care who you are, where you are what
14:33
Speaker 3: you believe, what you don't believe, it doesn't matter to me.
14:36
Speaker 3: Atheists will write to me, and some of them are
14:39
Speaker 3: very thoughtful and others are very angry. I still love them.
14:44
Speaker 3: I don't because I was an atheist. Once I get it,
14:46
Speaker 3: I understand my journey spiritual journey began with Hinduism, and
14:51
Speaker 3: I went through all the major religions and so and
14:54
Speaker 3: I learned something from all the major religions. But for
14:57
Speaker 3: my own good reasons and for what I discovered as
15:00
Speaker 3: a scientist, I finally landed on the Christian worldview because
15:03
Speaker 3: that resonates most strongly with my beloved science.
15:08
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that you had mentioned the Hindu scriptures.
15:12
Speaker 1: I had the pleasure of interviewing someone a few years
15:15
Speaker 1: ago and brought to mind the fact that in the
15:19
Speaker 1: Baghabad Ghita, one of the great Christian i'm sorry, Hindu scriptures,
15:24
Speaker 1: that there was a meeting of all of the Indian
15:27
Speaker 1: the Hindu gods, and Brahma, who was the head god,
15:32
Speaker 1: had an assembly of the other gods and goddesses, and
15:35
Speaker 1: they were complaining that in those days humanity had divine
15:39
Speaker 1: powers and they wanted Brahma to take away those divine
15:43
Speaker 1: powers from all of humanity. And they said, let's hide
15:46
Speaker 1: it on the top of the highest mountain. And Brahma
15:49
Speaker 1: shook his head and said, no, they would eventually find
15:52
Speaker 1: it there. And then what about in the deepest seas,
15:55
Speaker 1: And again Brahma shook his head and so and said, no,
15:59
Speaker 1: eventually they'll find it there. And then Brahma thought and said,
16:02
Speaker 1: I know what we'll do. We'll hide it inside of humans.
16:05
Speaker 1: They'd never think of looking inside for divinity. Isn't that
16:08
Speaker 1: a wonderful story?
16:11
Speaker 2: Yeah?
16:12
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know, just listening to you and you
16:16
Speaker 3: and you related that story beautifully, Victor, it takes me
16:20
Speaker 3: back to again when I was in my young twenties.
16:24
Speaker 3: I often kid with my own gen z Son back
16:26
Speaker 3: when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
16:31
Speaker 2: I was in my early twenties. You know, it's but.
16:35
Speaker 3: I remember I cut to the point in my studies
16:39
Speaker 3: and again I was just this absolute nerd. I mean,
16:43
Speaker 3: if you can picture a scientific nerd, that's who I was.
16:49
Speaker 3: I call myself a scientific monk because I had this
16:53
Speaker 3: basement lab at the Lab of Nuclear Studies at Cornell
16:56
Speaker 3: and I loved it. It was my it was everything
17:01
Speaker 3: was my man cave. I spent twenty twenty one hours
17:05
Speaker 3: there a day. I slept maybe three hours, maybe four
17:09
Speaker 3: On the outside.
17:10
Speaker 2: I worked seven days a week.
17:11
Speaker 3: There were no windows in my lab, so I didn't
17:14
Speaker 3: know if it was day and night. I didn't care.
17:16
Speaker 3: I had no social life. I barely groomed myself, I
17:20
Speaker 3: barely ate, I was skinny, and yet I thought I
17:25
Speaker 3: was the happiest. I was the happiest young man on
17:27
Speaker 3: earth because I was doing what I had dreamt of,
17:30
Speaker 3: becoming a scientist. And I remember about two years I
17:36
Speaker 3: would say into my grad studies, things happened, and I
17:43
Speaker 3: don't know if we have time to get into it now.
17:45
Speaker 3: But I had this kind of crisis where I realized
17:50
Speaker 3: seeing is believing. It's just not the way to live.
17:54
Speaker 3: Because if I stubbornly stuck with that motto, I would
17:59
Speaker 3: have to say I can't see most of the universe.
18:02
Speaker 3: Ninety five percent of the observable universe is not seeable,
18:09
Speaker 3: and then beyond the observable universe is an unobservable universe
18:12
Speaker 3: that's one hundred percent invisible to me. So that was
18:16
Speaker 3: part of the crisis. That wasn't all of it, but
18:18
Speaker 3: it was. It was a big part of it. And
18:22
Speaker 3: so I got to the point where I thought to myself, well,
18:26
Speaker 3: science is not going to answer all my deep questions.
18:29
Speaker 3: I'm in a crisis. And I remember one of my
18:33
Speaker 3: professors was Carl Sagan, a very well known astronomer. He
18:36
Speaker 3: was only then becoming well known. He was on the
18:39
Speaker 3: Johnny Carson Show. He was working on Cosmos. I actually
18:43
Speaker 3: got a front row seat on the making of Cosmos
18:46
Speaker 3: that I got to meet the executive producer, Adrian Malone.
18:48
Speaker 3: He was a British guy, very irascible. He and Carl
18:51
Speaker 3: ended up locking horns, sadly, but I.
18:55
Speaker 2: Was at Carl.
18:56
Speaker 3: I remember when he and he was Jewish, he was agnostic.
19:00
Speaker 3: I think he was a cultural Jew. I think would
19:02
Speaker 3: be a fair description, don't I say he was an
19:07
Speaker 3: atheist atheist Carl kind of was somewhere in an agnostic area.
19:13
Speaker 3: But I remember that whenever he was interviewed by reporters
19:19
Speaker 3: and I was asked about his religious beliefs, he would
19:23
Speaker 3: always mention the vedas.
19:26
Speaker 2: Well.
19:26
Speaker 3: This was before Google, and I was this closet, you know,
19:29
Speaker 3: I was this totally closed out nerd locked in my basement.
19:34
Speaker 3: Laud I didn't know what the Vedas were, but I figured, well,
19:39
Speaker 3: if it's important enough for Karl to keep talking about them,
19:42
Speaker 3: maybe this is something I should explore. So I went
19:45
Speaker 3: to Olin Library, which was it's the graduate student library
19:49
Speaker 3: at Cornell. I went into the stacks and I looked
19:52
Speaker 3: it up, and I'm sure enough it was the sacred
19:55
Speaker 3: literature of the Hindu religion. Knew nothing about it. I
19:58
Speaker 3: knew nothing about religion. It just never was part of
20:02
Speaker 3: my life. It was all about science for me. So
20:05
Speaker 3: I did with the Veda. Is what I always do, Victor.
20:09
Speaker 2: I dove in. I never do anything halfway.
20:12
Speaker 3: I'm a very I don't know if you want to
20:14
Speaker 3: say obsessive or whatever, but I I'm not a superficial person.
20:19
Speaker 3: I just dive if something interests me, I dive in
20:22
Speaker 3: with both hands and both feet. So I found that
20:25
Speaker 3: really quite fascinating, and in the process I discovered Hermann Hesse.
20:29
Speaker 3: As you well know and probably all of your followers know,
20:33
Speaker 3: he's a German Nobel Prize winning author. He wrote a
20:37
Speaker 3: lot of books, and what I found very quickly was
20:40
Speaker 3: that his protagonists tended to be these tormented intellectuals who
20:47
Speaker 3: go off on some journey to find answers to their
20:50
Speaker 3: deep questions.
20:52
Speaker 2: I thought about, well, that's me.
20:54
Speaker 3: I'm a tormented intellectual searching for answers to my deep
20:59
Speaker 3: question is that science is just not living up to
21:02
Speaker 3: Science is disappointing me in that area. And so I
21:05
Speaker 3: read Seth Hearth and Beneath the Wheel and Narcissist and
21:10
Speaker 3: gold Moon and all of them.
21:11
Speaker 2: I just devoured them. I loved them.
21:13
Speaker 3: They were so romantic, these intellectuals on their journeys. So
21:19
Speaker 3: that was a big inflection point. Then a friend of
21:21
Speaker 3: mine I heard that I was exploring Hinduism, so he
21:24
Speaker 3: gave me a copy of the e Ching and so
21:26
Speaker 3: I dove into that Chinese mysticism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Islam. Transcendental
21:32
Speaker 3: meditation at that time was.
21:34
Speaker 2: A big deal.
21:34
Speaker 3: There was a yogi, I think it was called Mahareshi
21:39
Speaker 3: Mahesh Yogi. He was making the around. So when he
21:42
Speaker 3: came to visit Cornell, I went there and I listened.
21:45
Speaker 3: I was fascinated. He said, you know, if you become
21:48
Speaker 3: a devote of TMI Transcendental Meditation International, you can actually levitate.
21:53
Speaker 3: Well you can imagine for a nerd like me, the
21:56
Speaker 3: idea of being able to defy gravity was aptly uh,
22:02
Speaker 3: something that was very attractive to me. So I tried
22:05
Speaker 3: it out. And then my thesis advisor, May he rest
22:09
Speaker 3: in peace, Richard Lieboff, wonderful man. He was Jewish, an
22:13
Speaker 3: observant Jew, so he knew that I was starting to
22:17
Speaker 3: explore this religious landscape. And so he has started inviting
22:21
Speaker 3: me to Shabbat services. So I would go with him
22:24
Speaker 3: on Friday night and then he would take me to
22:27
Speaker 3: his home afterwards for a little onyx Shabbat, and he
22:31
Speaker 3: I remember the this is a funny story. The first
22:35
Speaker 3: onix Shabbat. After the first Shabbat service, I went to
22:37
Speaker 3: he offered me some chopped chicken liver, and I said, Richard,
22:41
Speaker 3: you know my mom tried to fatten me up when
22:43
Speaker 3: I was a kid with liver.
22:44
Speaker 2: I said, I just died.
22:45
Speaker 3: I can't even look at liver, don't don't you know?
22:48
Speaker 3: He said, no, no, no, but this is my mother's.
22:51
Speaker 3: This is my mother's recipe. He's you gotta try it.
22:54
Speaker 3: So he I said, okay, Richard, one bite, put a
22:57
Speaker 3: little on a cracker.
22:58
Speaker 2: So I ate it. I said, woh, this is actually
23:00
Speaker 2: quite good.
23:02
Speaker 3: So I joke now that on my way from atheism
23:04
Speaker 3: to Christianity, I learned how to love chopped chicken liver.
23:09
Speaker 1: That's a wonderful sharing thing this day.
23:12
Speaker 3: To this day, do you know? And his wife Myra
23:15
Speaker 3: also lovely. I don't think she's with us anymore either,
23:19
Speaker 3: But just, oh my god, I look back, just reminiscing
23:23
Speaker 3: with you right now, Victor, I look back on my
23:25
Speaker 3: life and the journey that I've been on. I can
23:27
Speaker 3: hardly believe it. But would stand out, would stand out
23:32
Speaker 3: to me are the people who along the way, Whether
23:36
Speaker 3: it was Sagan with his Veda's thing launched me in
23:39
Speaker 3: my religious journey, or it was Richard or just countless
23:44
Speaker 3: people along the way Herman has. How fortunate have I been?
23:49
Speaker 3: And now I'm talking to you about all this? How
23:51
Speaker 3: fortunate am I? I don't deserve this. I'm still in
23:54
Speaker 3: my mind, this little Mexican kid growing up in East
23:57
Speaker 3: LA with his dream in his heart to become a scientist.
24:00
Speaker 3: What a preposterous dream for a kid from East LA.
24:04
Speaker 3: Most of my family never went past high school, and
24:06
Speaker 3: yet here I am speaking to you about this.
24:09
Speaker 2: It amazes me.
24:11
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing. That's a beautiful story. Thank
24:14
Speaker 1: you for sharing it. My guest, doctor Michael Geehan. We're
24:17
Speaker 1: going to be talking about his groundbreaking documentary The Invisible Everywhere.
24:22
Speaker 1: Believing is Seeing, Doctor G. Please share with our listeners
24:25
Speaker 1: where they can find out more about you, your website,
24:28
Speaker 1: your movie, and everything else that you have to offer.
24:31
Speaker 2: Thank you, Victor.
24:32
Speaker 3: Very simple, just go to the Invisible Everywhere dot com
24:37
Speaker 3: The Invisible Everywhere dot Com and you will see the movie.
24:40
Speaker 3: You can see the movie there, my books, more than
24:44
Speaker 3: you want to know about me, The Invisible Everywhere dot Com.
24:47
Speaker 1: Thank you, Victor, Thank you, and we'll be back with
24:50
Speaker 1: more of doctor G after these words. On the Own
24:53
Speaker 1: Times Radio Network.
24:55
Speaker 4: The cutting Edge of Conscious Radio, ome Times Radio i
24:59
Speaker 4: own FM. Ome Times Magazine is one of the leading
25:02
Speaker 4: online content providers of positivity, wellness and personal empowerment. A
25:07
Speaker 4: philanthropic organization, their net proceeds are finaled to support worldwide
25:12
Speaker 4: charity initiatives via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to
25:16
Speaker 4: creating community and providing conscious content, they aspire to uplift
25:20
Speaker 4: humanity on a global scale. Home Times co creating a
25:24
Speaker 4: more conscious lifestyle.
25:27
Speaker 1: Back on Vox Novus, my guest this week is doctor
25:30
Speaker 1: Michael Gean. We're going to be talking about his new documentary,
25:34
Speaker 1: The Invisible Everywhere. Believing is Seeing, Doctor G. Congratulations on
25:40
Speaker 1: your groundbreaking movie. You say that you felt God calling
25:45
Speaker 1: you to make this movie. Please explain.
25:48
Speaker 2: I did you know.
25:49
Speaker 3: I've already explained how I came to write Believing a
25:52
Speaker 3: scene against my you know, rudgingly I wrote that. And
25:58
Speaker 3: when I the book came out and I went around speaking,
26:01
Speaker 3: I would have so many people coming up to me
26:03
Speaker 3: afterwards and saying, you know, doctor G.
26:06
Speaker 2: I read your book.
26:07
Speaker 3: It changed my life, et cetera, et cetera. It says
26:09
Speaker 3: I'd love for my son, or my daughter or maybe
26:13
Speaker 3: my young brother would read the book, but I don't
26:17
Speaker 3: think they're readers. Would you consider.
26:20
Speaker 2: Making a movie out of it?
26:22
Speaker 3: And I kind of shrugged it off. I had other
26:24
Speaker 3: things I was doing. But it was a couple three
26:29
Speaker 3: years ago that I felt, you know what, I think
26:31
Speaker 3: it's time for me to follow through. I think the
26:34
Speaker 3: Lord is speaking to me through these people. And I
26:37
Speaker 3: had already made another movie, so I knew how to
26:40
Speaker 3: make movies. It wasn't an issue for me. I had
26:42
Speaker 3: made a movie called Little Red Wagon and it went.
26:46
Speaker 2: To the theaters.
26:48
Speaker 3: It came out in twenty ten, to give you an idea,
26:53
Speaker 3: and it was in theaters, and then Walmart wanted a
26:56
Speaker 3: ninety day exclusive, which I gave to them, and they
26:59
Speaker 3: sold DVD and it shot to the best seller list,
27:02
Speaker 3: and then Netflix bought it for four years, and now
27:05
Speaker 3: it's on Amazon Prime and Fandango and Apple TV and
27:08
Speaker 3: so forth. It's distributed by Lionsgate. So as I was
27:12
Speaker 3: writing the script several years ago with the intention of
27:16
Speaker 3: making a movie based on my book, believing a scene,
27:20
Speaker 3: I thought it was just going to be rinse and repeat,
27:23
Speaker 3: you know, I'll just do what I did before with
27:25
Speaker 3: Little Red Wagon. It was very successful. But it was February,
27:28
Speaker 3: and I'll never forget this date, Victor February twenty fifth
27:33
Speaker 3: of last year, twenty twenty five.
27:36
Speaker 2: It was four in the morning. My wife Laurel was
27:38
Speaker 2: still asleep. It was dark in the bedroom.
27:41
Speaker 3: I was four AM, and I wasn't thinking about anything
27:45
Speaker 3: in particular. I'm an early riser, but on this particular morning,
27:49
Speaker 3: I was just still kind of half asleep. All of
27:52
Speaker 3: a sudden, I just and I have to be careful
27:55
Speaker 3: how I describe this, because I don't want it to
27:57
Speaker 3: come across as weird, but you know you will understand
28:02
Speaker 3: this that I just I just felt cold. And it
28:07
Speaker 3: wasn't an audio voice or anything like that, but I
28:10
Speaker 3: just felt cold to make this movie in a different way,
28:14
Speaker 3: and specifically the voice I heard was and it wasn't
28:18
Speaker 3: even just a voice.
28:19
Speaker 2: It was just as a.
28:21
Speaker 3: Scientist, I don't know how to explain the form of communication.
28:25
Speaker 3: It's a strange form of communication, but it's as if
28:29
Speaker 3: my entire body is an antenna receiving some kind of message.
28:33
Speaker 3: And I know that sounds strange, but that's the best
28:35
Speaker 3: I can do to describe what I heard was don't wait,
28:40
Speaker 3: make this movie now, even if you have to do
28:43
Speaker 3: it with your iPhone. That was what I heard. I
28:46
Speaker 3: was like, what, where's that coming from. I wasn't even
28:48
Speaker 3: thinking about the movie. But I took it seriously, and
28:52
Speaker 3: I've had experiences like that in the past to take
28:55
Speaker 3: it seriously. And I told my wife, I said, well,
28:58
Speaker 3: I'll have to get myself a new iPhone. I got
29:00
Speaker 3: a real old clunker, but I'll do it. And let's
29:03
Speaker 3: get some lights. I'll get some microphones and get some
29:06
Speaker 3: green screen and let's just do this, you know. It's
29:10
Speaker 3: I need. I need to do it. I need to
29:12
Speaker 3: be obedient and uh so uh. It was about a
29:16
Speaker 3: week after that that I was browsing on the internet
29:19
Speaker 3: and I noticed these AI video generators. I'd never heard
29:23
Speaker 3: of them before, knew nothing about them.
29:26
Speaker 2: At that time.
29:27
Speaker 3: There was only only one such app, It's called Runway,
29:31
Speaker 3: and I experimented with because it's being a scientist, this
29:35
Speaker 3: is something new.
29:36
Speaker 2: I'd never heard of.
29:37
Speaker 3: I thought, let me experiment with this thing. So I
29:39
Speaker 3: took a line from my script, which by then had
29:42
Speaker 3: already been written, and I prompted this thing with a
29:48
Speaker 3: line from my script, and a few seconds later, it
29:52
Speaker 3: spit out a five second video and I.
29:56
Speaker 2: Looked at it.
29:56
Speaker 3: I said, well, it's not it's not great, but it's
30:00
Speaker 3: amazing that it can do this so quickly five seconds.
30:05
Speaker 3: So I kept experimenting with it, and finally I decided,
30:08
Speaker 3: you know what, I think I can make a full
30:10
Speaker 3: length motion picture this way. So I committed myself to that.
30:14
Speaker 3: I bought a gaming computer from Best Buy for a
30:17
Speaker 3: couple thousand dollars because my old computer was crashing at
30:21
Speaker 3: this point, and I started working twelve hour days for
30:25
Speaker 3: a solid year, a solid year victor twelve hour days.
30:30
Speaker 3: My wife would sneak into my office. It's the office
30:33
Speaker 3: I'm speaking to you from right now here in North Texas,
30:37
Speaker 3: and she said, eat, eat, You're not eating. You're not eating.
30:40
Speaker 3: You're going to waste away. And I told her at
30:44
Speaker 3: one point, I told her at Laurel, I think at
30:46
Speaker 3: this age, I think I'm reverting back to the scientific
30:49
Speaker 3: monk days when I was working twenty to twenty one
30:53
Speaker 3: hour days in that basement lab of mine at Cornell.
30:55
Speaker 3: Except I'm not twenty something anymore. And so yeah, for
30:59
Speaker 3: a solid year, twelve hour days, I created it. And
31:02
Speaker 3: now I'm told on good authority because I have friends
31:05
Speaker 3: in Hollywood and they're all telling me, yeah, you're the
31:09
Speaker 3: first guy in history to make a full length motion
31:11
Speaker 3: picture this way by yourself on a desktop computer using
31:15
Speaker 3: publicly available AI generators. And I have not heard anybody
31:20
Speaker 3: contradict that claim. That's not the reason I made it, obviously,
31:23
Speaker 3: I just explained to you why I made it this way.
31:26
Speaker 2: But I think it's kind.
31:28
Speaker 3: Of cool that if that indeed is the case. But
31:32
Speaker 3: more to the point, I think that what AI was
31:36
Speaker 3: able to do was it It was able to help
31:38
Speaker 3: me make visible the invisible realms that we are completely
31:44
Speaker 3: surrounded by and the invisible realms that inhabit us, because
31:49
Speaker 3: the movie is not only about the mostly invisible universe
31:52
Speaker 3: beyond us, but it's also the mostly invisible universe that
31:57
Speaker 3: dwells within us. So I ask questions like, how did
32:00
Speaker 3: the universe begin?
32:02
Speaker 2: How did life on Earth? Begin?
32:04
Speaker 3: What is human consciousness? Are we just another animal? Are
32:08
Speaker 3: we alone? Is there life after death? These are deep
32:11
Speaker 3: questions and they involve invisible realities, and so AI was
32:16
Speaker 3: able to help me do that. And people who've seen
32:20
Speaker 3: the movie now, the movie came out of April eighth,
32:22
Speaker 3: and I mean, the reviews we're getting are just amazing.
32:25
Speaker 3: People are saying it's beautiful, it's stunning. The music that
32:28
Speaker 3: I used is beautiful, I mean, but it's also very deep,
32:32
Speaker 3: and so people are saying, wow, doctor g this is
32:35
Speaker 3: mind boggling. It's stunning visually, and the music is beautiful.
32:39
Speaker 3: But the message is just the science in it. Because basically,
32:43
Speaker 3: what I'm saying is what does modern science have to
32:46
Speaker 3: say about all those deep questions? And how is it
32:50
Speaker 3: then that those discoveries by modern science literally shatter my
32:55
Speaker 3: atheism and open my eyes and mind to the existence
32:58
Speaker 3: of God.
32:58
Speaker 2: How did that happen?
32:59
Speaker 3: Doctor g And So that's what this movie about. It's
33:02
Speaker 3: not preaching. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. You
33:05
Speaker 3: can be an atheist and watch this. You can be
33:07
Speaker 3: a Hindu and watch this. You can be a Muslim.
33:10
Speaker 3: And I have a lot of Muslim followers, and they
33:14
Speaker 3: will get something out of it. And my hope is
33:16
Speaker 3: that at the very least they'll come away with a
33:19
Speaker 3: greater appreciation for just how much we are surrounded and
33:23
Speaker 3: inhabited by mystery. And also they will find something within
33:29
Speaker 3: this movie, within my journey in life, that will.
33:32
Speaker 2: Help them on their journey. That's my only hope.
33:34
Speaker 3: I don't that's that's what I hope, And that's apparently
33:40
Speaker 3: what's happening with people. People are watching it all over
33:42
Speaker 3: the world. That's why I put it on the Invisible
33:44
Speaker 3: Everywhere dot com. By the way, Victor, because I could
33:48
Speaker 3: have done I could have gone theaters, just like I
33:49
Speaker 3: did with the Little Red Wagon. I could have gone
33:51
Speaker 3: the standard route, but I figured, you know what, I
33:54
Speaker 3: made this movie in a very innovative way. Let me
33:56
Speaker 3: distribute it in an innovative way. So I came up
34:00
Speaker 3: with the plan. Wherever you are, whether you're in Hungary
34:03
Speaker 3: or Thailand, or Australia, New Zealand, the Europe, wherever you are,
34:10
Speaker 3: whoever you are, all you gotta do is go to
34:12
Speaker 3: the Invisible Everywhere dot com and you can watch the movie.
34:15
Speaker 3: And so far it's succeeded my I mean, I'm exhausted
34:20
Speaker 3: because of the attention this movie is getting, Victor, but
34:22
Speaker 3: it's so worth it.
34:24
Speaker 2: It's so worth it.
34:25
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the AI Revolution for a minute. Do
34:28
Speaker 1: you believe it'll be a boon or a disaster for humanity?
34:33
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's going to be a mixed bag.
34:38
Speaker 2: You know.
34:39
Speaker 3: I wrote a book years ago and it's called The
34:45
Speaker 3: End of Life as we know It, The Ominous I
34:49
Speaker 3: forget the subtitle, but it was something like Ominous News
34:54
Speaker 3: from the Frontiers of Science. So the End of Life
34:57
Speaker 3: as we know It Ominous News from the Frontiers of
35:00
Speaker 3: It came out I don't know, about six, seven, eight
35:02
Speaker 3: years ago, and everything I predicted in that book is
35:06
Speaker 3: coming true because I have one huge The book is
35:10
Speaker 3: divided into four big sections, and one of the big
35:12
Speaker 3: sections is on artificial intelligence.
35:16
Speaker 2: And when this book came out eight years ago or.
35:18
Speaker 3: So, people were not talking about AI.
35:22
Speaker 2: It was sneaking up on.
35:24
Speaker 3: Them at every single thing I said. And I don't
35:27
Speaker 3: say this boastfully. I mean, it's just a fact. You
35:29
Speaker 3: can get the book and you can see it for yourself.
35:31
Speaker 3: Every single thing I warned people about that I told
35:36
Speaker 3: people about with this coming AI revolution. It's coming true
35:41
Speaker 3: now and people are just now waking up.
35:45
Speaker 2: You know.
35:47
Speaker 3: So if you look at the previous three revolutions, so
35:51
Speaker 3: you're talking about the industrial revolution, the electric revolution, and
35:56
Speaker 3: then the computer revolution, and now we have the AI Revolution.
36:01
Speaker 3: We don't have time to get into all of what
36:03
Speaker 3: I have to say on this subject. But to answer
36:06
Speaker 3: your question directly, it's going to be a mixed bag.
36:12
Speaker 3: Let me put it to you this way. When I
36:14
Speaker 3: was a grad student of Cornell, a lot of the
36:18
Speaker 3: faculty there, a lot of the physicists, the faculty in
36:21
Speaker 3: the physics department in particular, were part of the Manhattan Project,
36:27
Speaker 3: which was, you know, the project that created the first
36:30
Speaker 3: atomic bomb. In fact, Hans Beta, who was on our faculty,
36:36
Speaker 3: was the head of the theoretical division at Manhattan Project.
36:41
Speaker 3: And what I noticed then was, and these were all
36:46
Speaker 3: men probably in their maybe fifties, sixties sometimes in words,
36:51
Speaker 3: if you calculated they were young, they were in their
36:54
Speaker 3: twenties in the late nineteen forties. So you know, add
36:59
Speaker 3: thirty thirty some thirty forty years to that, and all
37:03
Speaker 3: of them, to a person, regretted or had feelings of
37:07
Speaker 3: remorse about what they had created. And many of them
37:11
Speaker 3: spent the rest of their lives trying to do penance,
37:14
Speaker 3: penance in some way or another.
37:18
Speaker 2: And so I think.
37:20
Speaker 3: But yet, on the other on the other hand, if
37:22
Speaker 3: you think of what nuclear energy did, yes, it created
37:25
Speaker 3: a bomb, but my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer
37:30
Speaker 3: when she was in her forties and she received radiation
37:33
Speaker 3: treatments which prolonged her life by five years.
37:37
Speaker 2: So there it is.
37:38
Speaker 3: There's an example of how nuclear energy had its good
37:43
Speaker 3: side and its bad side. And I think we're gonna
37:47
Speaker 3: we're seeing that with AI. First of all, look at
37:49
Speaker 3: my movie. I mean, it's a beautiful movie.
37:51
Speaker 2: I'm proud of it.
37:53
Speaker 3: I'm happy to have it right alongside everything else I've
37:56
Speaker 3: created in my life. It's beautiful, and it has an
38:01
Speaker 3: uplifting message. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. But On
38:05
Speaker 3: the other hand, people are being put out of a job.
38:07
Speaker 3: I mean, when I did Little Red Wagon, it cost
38:11
Speaker 3: me eight million dollars. We shot it in Charleston, South Carolina,
38:16
Speaker 3: and I had probably about two hundred, two hundred and
38:19
Speaker 3: fifty crew members to make that movie. Well, the Invisible
38:24
Speaker 3: everywhere I did by myself. So one could argue that,
38:28
Speaker 3: you know, I cost a couple hundred jobs, and probably
38:33
Speaker 3: that's true. But I don't feel remorseful. I mean, yeah,
38:37
Speaker 3: I feel remorseful, of course I do. But what I'm
38:39
Speaker 3: saying is that the product that I created is beautiful.
38:44
Speaker 3: So it's never these these matters, and AI is an
38:49
Speaker 3: example of that, are never so cut and dry. Some
38:53
Speaker 3: aspects of it, yes, will be catastrophic, they already are.
38:56
Speaker 3: Hollywood is feeling the pinch. Hollywood will never recover from this,
39:01
Speaker 3: never and many other industries will never recover. But we
39:07
Speaker 3: already have evidence that AI is creating entirely new jobs
39:11
Speaker 3: and new categories of jobs. And so I think I
39:15
Speaker 3: don't know if you and I will live long enough
39:17
Speaker 3: to see what the net result is Victor, but if
39:23
Speaker 3: the other three revolutions are any indication, I think we
39:26
Speaker 3: will end up with a net positive. In fact, I
39:28
Speaker 3: wrote a substack. I have substack, and I wrote a
39:32
Speaker 3: piece some months ago called the Best News about AI.
39:36
Speaker 3: Now I'm not going to give it away, but I
39:39
Speaker 3: do think that AI in the end is going to
39:42
Speaker 3: be a positive development in human history, not a net negative.
39:48
Speaker 3: I think it'll be a net positive. But yes, there
39:50
Speaker 3: will be casualties. There already are casualties along the way.
39:53
Speaker 3: That's inevitable, and I grieve for that. I feel bad
39:58
Speaker 3: about that, but at the same time, I'm realistic to
40:00
Speaker 3: know there's nothing I can do about it except to
40:03
Speaker 3: commit myself to using this new technology in a humane way,
40:08
Speaker 3: in a fair way.
40:10
Speaker 2: I don't want to. I don't want.
40:12
Speaker 3: To to the extent that I have any control over it.
40:16
Speaker 3: I don't want to do any damage with it. And
40:19
Speaker 3: so that's my take right now, and I'm condensing. I
40:22
Speaker 3: could talk to you for hours about this, and I
40:25
Speaker 3: wrote it actually what I call a thirty minute science
40:28
Speaker 3: pocket guide on artificial intelligence. It's also on that website,
40:32
Speaker 3: the Invisible Everywhere dot com, So if people want to
40:34
Speaker 3: read that, or they can buy this other book that
40:37
Speaker 3: I wrote eight years ago called The End of Life
40:40
Speaker 3: as we Know It, but it's here to stay. Victor,
40:43
Speaker 3: hate it, love it. It's here to stay, and we
40:45
Speaker 3: all have to adapt to it.
40:47
Speaker 1: You had mentioned that inspiring voice that came to you
40:52
Speaker 1: to tell you to make this movie. Have you had
40:54
Speaker 1: other experiences like that?
40:57
Speaker 4: Oh?
40:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember, and I think I tell the
41:02
Speaker 3: story in my book Believing a Scene. It was probably
41:08
Speaker 3: around two thousand and six. I had already left ABC News.
41:13
Speaker 3: I had been at ABC News for fourteen years, and
41:15
Speaker 3: I just basically got bored just doing the same thing.
41:19
Speaker 3: I was on Good Morning America twenty twenty, Nightline with
41:23
Speaker 3: Ted Koppel, I was on World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.
41:26
Speaker 3: And it was a wonderful fourteen years. I traveled the world,
41:30
Speaker 3: covered all the top stories in science. For fourteen years.
41:34
Speaker 3: I've been to the South Pole, the North Pole, the
41:37
Speaker 3: bottom of the at North Atlantic, at the Titanic. Almost
41:40
Speaker 3: lost my life there. I tell that story in the
41:42
Speaker 3: movie et.
41:43
Speaker 2: Cetera, et cetera.
41:44
Speaker 3: But by two thousand and six, I think I left
41:46
Speaker 3: ABC News. It was two thousand and two, and when
41:50
Speaker 3: I left ABC News, the History Channel hired me to
41:54
Speaker 3: host a primetime television series. And I had always wanted
41:57
Speaker 3: to do that. It's called Where Did It Come From?
42:01
Speaker 3: And it did very well primetime series. So in two
42:05
Speaker 3: thousand and six, anyone looking at my life would have said, man,
42:09
Speaker 3: you have a great life. I mean, all those years
42:12
Speaker 3: at ABC News, three Emmy Awards, you taught at Harvard
42:17
Speaker 3: for eight years, one Distinguished Teaching Awards. Before that, you
42:20
Speaker 3: were at Cornell with Carl Sagan and Frank Drake and
42:23
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. But the reality is I felt very empty.
42:30
Speaker 3: I remember we lived in this beautiful country property about
42:36
Speaker 3: an hour west of Boston, so I would commute into Harvard.
42:41
Speaker 3: But it was a thirty acre property, seventeen seventy eight
42:44
Speaker 3: Center Chimney Colonial home on thirty acres. It was just
42:48
Speaker 3: beautiful stone walls, beaver pond, stream, flower beds, meadows, you
42:56
Speaker 3: can picture it. But I was not a happy man.
43:00
Speaker 3: I was miserable, Victor and I remember I would take walks.
43:07
Speaker 3: The guy who mowed Arlan, I would have him cut
43:10
Speaker 3: paths through the meadows and I would wander around the
43:14
Speaker 3: back forty as they would say, with my dog Annie,
43:16
Speaker 3: my beloved black lab who we had adopted, and Annie
43:20
Speaker 3: and I would go walking along these trails and I
43:22
Speaker 3: was in a very deep funk, and I remember just
43:27
Speaker 3: complaining to God, just saying, because by then I was
43:29
Speaker 3: a Christian, and I remember complaining to him and to say.
43:32
Speaker 2: Is this all there is for me?
43:35
Speaker 3: I can't believe that you would take me out of
43:38
Speaker 3: the Mexican body of East Los Angeles just so I
43:40
Speaker 3: could have fame and fortune, that I could live in
43:43
Speaker 3: this cushy place. And it just all felt so stupid
43:47
Speaker 3: and meaningless to me. I had a nice fat bank account,
43:52
Speaker 3: but I just it just it just didn't make any
43:55
Speaker 3: sense to me. And I remember so clearly I received.
44:01
Speaker 2: Well.
44:02
Speaker 3: In this case, I can say to you, I received
44:05
Speaker 3: two messages, but in different forms. The first one was
44:10
Speaker 3: audible and audible to me, audible to my being, and
44:15
Speaker 3: it said, be patient, I am preparing you for something different.
44:20
Speaker 3: It was clear as I'm talking to you right now,
44:24
Speaker 3: clear as a bell. Be patient, I'm preparing you for
44:30
Speaker 3: something different.
44:32
Speaker 2: I said, all right. And then the other one was visual.
44:35
Speaker 3: It was big right in front of me, like a
44:37
Speaker 3: TV screen, and it was one word, all capital letters
44:42
Speaker 3: C h A and ge, c h A and ge change.
44:50
Speaker 3: And this happened to me more than once I would
44:52
Speaker 3: go out with Annie, and I was still in a funk,
44:55
Speaker 3: still complaining to God, and I would get these two messages.
44:59
Speaker 3: And then one Saturday morning, right around then, I remember
45:02
Speaker 3: I was out in the back forty with Annie and
45:04
Speaker 3: I heard my wife Laurel say, Michael, my call.
45:08
Speaker 2: She was yelling at me because I was in the
45:10
Speaker 2: back of the property. Phone call, phone call.
45:15
Speaker 3: And I just looked up and I'm like, wow, whatever
45:18
Speaker 3: she said, phone call now.
45:20
Speaker 2: So I said, okay, Annie, let's go, let's see what's up.
45:25
Speaker 2: So I pick up.
45:26
Speaker 3: A phone and it's doctor John Templeton and he had
45:32
Speaker 3: just taken over the Templeton Foundation from his father, Sir
45:37
Speaker 3: John Templeton, and doctor we called him Jack, but at
45:41
Speaker 3: that time I didn't call him I did. He was
45:43
Speaker 3: doctor John Templeton. He was a pediatric surgeon in Philadelphia,
45:48
Speaker 3: and he was calling. To make a long story short,
45:50
Speaker 3: it was just one of the most amazing moments of
45:53
Speaker 3: my life. Victor had changed my life. He said to me, basically,
45:57
Speaker 3: I need a favor from you. He says, you know,
45:59
Speaker 3: we've been watching you for four years. We watched your career,
46:02
Speaker 3: We admire what you're doing. Blah blah blah, and we
46:06
Speaker 3: want to make a one hour PBS special on philanthropy,
46:11
Speaker 3: and we're coming to you to suggest a producer. Do
46:14
Speaker 3: you know of a good You've worked with producers, you know,
46:17
Speaker 3: for decades. Could you recommend a producer to me? And
46:22
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, you know. And again
46:24
Speaker 3: I was in a funk. I was like, oh, yeah, sure,
46:28
Speaker 3: I'll recommend it. So I ended up recommending two one
46:30
Speaker 3: in the West Coast, one in the East Coast. I figured,
46:32
Speaker 3: you know, the Ying and the Yang pick, take your pick,
46:36
Speaker 3: you know.
46:37
Speaker 2: And so then he calls me again.
46:39
Speaker 3: He says, well, now that you've recommended these two people,
46:43
Speaker 3: we're flying him into Philadelphia to meet with him for
46:45
Speaker 3: an entire day. We want you to come in to
46:47
Speaker 3: be part of this discussion, to kind of moderate the
46:50
Speaker 3: discussion because you're recommending.
46:52
Speaker 2: These people to us. Would you be willing to do that?
46:55
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, sure, sure. Well the next thing I know,
46:58
Speaker 3: long story short, he's giving me ten million dollars to
47:02
Speaker 3: make a movie about philanthropy, which ended up being a
47:06
Speaker 3: little red Wagon and creating a website with which we
47:09
Speaker 3: did with AOL change c HA and ge be patient.
47:16
Speaker 3: I'm preparing you for something different. Hello, I had never
47:20
Speaker 3: made a movie in my life, Victor. I'd always been
47:24
Speaker 3: in front of the camera, and I had never created
47:27
Speaker 3: a website in my life. So yes, that's one of them.
47:31
Speaker 3: But I could, I could tell you so many other times.
47:33
Speaker 3: But when it happens, it's always crystal clear.
47:36
Speaker 2: I can.
47:38
Speaker 3: I'm now old enough to discern God's voice from my
47:42
Speaker 3: own voice, and that was for me. I mean, here,
47:48
Speaker 3: I am talking to you about another movie I just made,
47:50
Speaker 3: and I just these are all very mysterious things.
47:54
Speaker 2: I don't sit.
47:54
Speaker 3: Here like some big note all to tell you, Hey,
47:57
Speaker 3: I know what's going on. Hey, God spoke to me
48:00
Speaker 3: and blah blahlah. No, look, I can only relate to
48:03
Speaker 3: you what happened. You infer you, your followers infer whatever
48:09
Speaker 3: they want from this. I'm just telling you what exactly happened.
48:12
Speaker 2: No spin, no embellishment.
48:15
Speaker 3: This is exactly what happened. You figure it out. This
48:18
Speaker 3: is my whole attitude about things like, Okay, I'm just
48:21
Speaker 3: telling you what's happened to me. I'm not going to
48:24
Speaker 3: tell you what to think about it. You may disagree
48:28
Speaker 3: with me, and you might think, well, that was just
48:29
Speaker 3: a random thing. Doctor g You know, yeah, just a coincidence. Sure,
48:34
Speaker 3: if you want to believe that, good luck with that.
48:36
Speaker 3: I'm fine with it. I'm not going to lose any
48:37
Speaker 3: sleep over it. If that's how you choose to interpret
48:39
Speaker 3: the events. I see it differently. I experienced it. I
48:43
Speaker 3: know what I experienced, and it's not just that. There
48:46
Speaker 3: are many more times like that in my life and
48:49
Speaker 3: it's pretty amazing. But it's all part of the great mystery.
48:52
Speaker 3: That's why I did the Invisible Everywhere, because we are
48:54
Speaker 3: surrounded by invisible realities that are deeply mysterious, and we
48:58
Speaker 3: are inhabited invisible realities that are deeply mysterious. I talk
49:03
Speaker 3: about that in the Louis.
49:05
Speaker 1: Wonderful Doctor g The thought used to be that science
49:09
Speaker 1: and faith were mutually exclusive. Do you see a change
49:14
Speaker 1: in attitude in the scientific community, and if so, what's
49:18
Speaker 1: driving that change.
49:21
Speaker 3: The short answer is yes, I do see a change,
49:23
Speaker 3: and I'll tell you why. I think one reason why.
49:28
Speaker 3: I think there are several, but I'll give you I
49:30
Speaker 3: think the main reason, and it has to and it
49:34
Speaker 3: is actually the reason that turned me into a believer,
49:38
Speaker 3: that shattered my atheism, and it's this. When you look
49:42
Speaker 3: at the history of science. The history science is about
49:46
Speaker 3: two thousand plus years old, right, It dates back to Aristotle,
49:51
Speaker 3: you know, circa three hundred BC. Aristotle is in the
49:55
Speaker 3: Great Scheme of Things, kind of like the grand Father,
50:00
Speaker 3: if you will. You might even want to say the
50:04
Speaker 3: father of ancient science. Aristotle was the first person to
50:08
Speaker 3: propose the idea of categorizing reality.
50:11
Speaker 2: So flowers are over.
50:13
Speaker 3: Here, animals are in another category, birds are in another category,
50:17
Speaker 3: et cetera. These were the earliest inkleans of the scientific method.
50:21
Speaker 3: So Aristotle gets credit for starting the scientific method. That's
50:26
Speaker 3: the first milestone. The second milestone came in the late
50:30
Speaker 3: seventeenth century. So people like Galileo and Robert Boyle and
50:35
Speaker 3: Isaac Newton in Europe, they are the fathers of classical science.
50:41
Speaker 3: That's what we call classic classical science. That so you
50:46
Speaker 3: have Newton's three laws of mechanics, you have his universal
50:50
Speaker 3: law of gravity.
50:50
Speaker 2: You have Galileo doing.
50:52
Speaker 3: His you know, legendary experiment off the top of the
50:56
Speaker 3: tower leaning tower Pieas And whether he did it that
51:00
Speaker 3: or not is irrelevant. The point is that he made
51:03
Speaker 3: enormous discoveries that are part of classical physics. And then
51:08
Speaker 3: you come to the turn of the century, going from
51:11
Speaker 3: the nineteen hundreds to going from the late eighteen hundreds
51:15
Speaker 3: to the nineteen hundreds, that's the next the third most
51:19
Speaker 3: recent milestone in the history of science, and that was
51:23
Speaker 3: authored by people like Albert Einstein and Werner, Heisenberg and
51:27
Speaker 3: Schudinger and all the rest of them, right, Plank and Dirac,
51:34
Speaker 3: all these people. That is kind of the golden age
51:37
Speaker 3: of modern science. Okay, So if you look at that,
51:45
Speaker 3: you will notice a trend, and that is the trend
51:50
Speaker 3: in science from Aristotle to the Europeans to.
51:57
Speaker 2: Then modern science.
51:59
Speaker 3: Trend is towards the supernatural, towards the metaphysical. In other words,
52:05
Speaker 3: the theories of science are not becoming more and more
52:10
Speaker 3: down to earth and materialistic. The theories of science are
52:15
Speaker 3: actually becoming more and more supernatural. They're becoming more otherworldly,
52:21
Speaker 3: more religious like. So, for example, the concept of the
52:27
Speaker 3: quantum vacuum, well, by definition, the quantum vacuum is something
52:33
Speaker 3: very mysterious because it's something, it's nothing. By definition, it's
52:39
Speaker 3: a vacuum, so it's nothing, right, empty space, but that
52:43
Speaker 3: empty space is filled with everything. It's filled with the
52:46
Speaker 3: makings of a universe. Don't even try to make sense
52:50
Speaker 3: out of that. It's not logical. It's what I call translogical.
52:55
Speaker 3: And that is the gist of this trend i'm talking
52:58
Speaker 3: to you about that. If you look at the h
53:00
Speaker 3: of science, it's trending towards becoming more and more religious like.
53:05
Speaker 3: And I think because of that, scientists are more becoming
53:09
Speaker 3: more and more open minded to religion. They're becoming more
53:12
Speaker 3: and more open minded. They have to to the metaphysical,
53:16
Speaker 3: to the mysterious, to un to the illogical, to the unseen,
53:20
Speaker 3: to the unimaginable, because their theories are being forced to
53:25
Speaker 3: become that because they're discovering that the universe itself is supernatural,
53:29
Speaker 3: the universe itself is religious like.
53:33
Speaker 5: It's exactly the opposite of what you would have predicted
53:36
Speaker 5: two thousand years ago. Two thousand years ago, you would
53:39
Speaker 5: have predicted that as science progressed over the centuries, it
53:44
Speaker 5: would demystify the universe, it would act as as a
53:49
Speaker 5: way of eliminating mystery. But now it's adding to the mystery,
53:54
Speaker 5: it's amplifying the mystery.
53:56
Speaker 2: That's what my movie is about.
53:58
Speaker 3: That's what transformed me from an atheist to a believer,
54:02
Speaker 3: because when you study the universes. I have my entire life, Victor,
54:07
Speaker 3: ever since I was that second grader in East Los
54:10
Speaker 3: Angeles till now, what I have discovered about the universe
54:15
Speaker 3: is that it's it is supernatural to its very DNA.
54:21
Speaker 3: It is metaphysical to its DNA, it is religious like
54:25
Speaker 3: to its DNA, and and that is completely unexpected. And
54:31
Speaker 3: that's why I think you're seeing now scientists now, there
54:35
Speaker 3: are you know, there are very vocal, angry exceptions like
54:38
Speaker 3: Richard Dawkins, but they don't matter anymore. Those are the
54:41
Speaker 3: so called new atheists. Well, the new atheists are now
54:43
Speaker 3: old and there nobody cares about them. In fact, Richard
54:46
Speaker 3: Dawkins has been disowned by other atheists.
54:49
Speaker 2: He's he's just so.
54:50
Speaker 3: Angry and he doesn't make any sense. He's a brilliant writer.
54:55
Speaker 3: His book of the Selfish Gene is just beautifully written.
54:59
Speaker 3: But the man has got personal problems. It's the only
55:01
Speaker 3: way you can explain his rabid atheism. But he's the exception. Now,
55:06
Speaker 3: I think scientists now and the culture is becoming more
55:10
Speaker 3: and more open minded because what we're discovering in modern
55:14
Speaker 3: science is that the universe is mostly not logical it's
55:18
Speaker 3: mostly not visible and it's mostly not imaginable.
55:23
Speaker 2: That's pretty amazing.
55:25
Speaker 3: Two thousand years of studying the universe and that's your conclusion.
55:28
Speaker 2: That's pretty amazing.
55:29
Speaker 1: Absolutely, my guest, doctor Michael Gihan, his groundbreaking documentary The
55:35
Speaker 1: Invisible Everywhere Believing is seeing Doctor G one more time.
55:40
Speaker 1: Please share with our listeners where they can find your
55:42
Speaker 1: movie and all of your wonderful books and work.
55:45
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Victor. Yeah, just one hub the
55:48
Speaker 3: Invisible Everywhere dot Com. Just go to wherever you are
55:53
Speaker 3: the Invisible Everywhere dot Com and you'll see everything we're
55:56
Speaker 3: talking about in much much.
55:58
Speaker 1: More, Doctor G. Thank you so much, so much for
56:00
Speaker 1: joining us and sharing this really important message. I am
56:03
Speaker 1: so grateful to you.
56:05
Speaker 3: Well, I'm equally grateful. Thank you for your time, Victor.
56:08
Speaker 3: God bless you and your followers.
56:10
Speaker 2: I just really really enjoyed our conversation.
56:13
Speaker 1: Thank you, as did I, and thank you for joining
56:16
Speaker 1: us on Vox Novus. I'm Victor the Voice Firman. Have
56:20
Speaker 1: a wonderful week,