Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / The Favorites - The Battle For Legal Sports Betting

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The Favorites - The Battle For Legal Sports Betting · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Favorite podcast is presented by FanDuel Sports Book. There's
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  Speaker 1: one eight seventh s t O P in Louisiana called
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the Tennessee Red Line one eight nine or visit one
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: eight gambler dot net in West Virginia. Welcome to the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Favorites the podcast from the Volume and Podcast Network. I
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: am Chad Moment, Chief Content Officer of the Action Network.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: It is May. We are winding down the conference finals
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in the NBA. My bff, my companion, my compadre, professional
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: better Simon Hunter. What is going on, buddy? We got
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of activity and the rest of this show
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: will be dedicated to some of the most burning questions
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: for betters across the country. Don't give it away yet,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: don't give it away, just say hello, Chad. Yeah, it's
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: a fun time in the year since our last year,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people reach out to me
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: about coming to Germany, about coming to Chicago. I mean,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: we're a world tour show chat, so yeah, I know
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you're feeling called you about Germany. I'm just getting like
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: random d MS and messages about coming to Germany, and
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, did we even say we want to
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: go to Germany? I think we were just talking about
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the Seahawks. Well, hey, when I say remember, I'm old,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So when I say call, I use that as a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: euphemism abroad euphemism for getting in touch with I could
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: say d M, could say texted, I could say who
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: snapped you? I could say who my spaced. You could
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: say a lot of things. I just say call. It's
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: an umbrella term. That's right enough. You are old, I
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: mean there's no denying that generationally. Did you get any
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: offers from anybody who's willing to host us in a
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: suite for the Bears Eagles game in December where we
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: both want to go to see our teams play. But
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I am too old and fragile to sit outside in
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: December in Chicago. I know my limits. No, it was
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: more like you and Chatton to come get drunk with
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: me before the game or come party with me before
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you guys go. And I was like, hey, maybe we will,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: but Chad might be a little too classy if you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: stand out in the cold and the freezing cold drinking.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: But I would be down Soldier Field. The Germany wants fun. Basically,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I think a guy knows I love BMW's and he
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: DM me and he works for BMW in Germany, and
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I'm all in, like this guy, like I got money
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to burn. This guy's telling me he'll come out there
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: and show me the whole factory in the works of BMW.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna take him up on that offer because
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that's been a dream of mine. So again, Chad, everything
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I give to you, you give me back tensfold. All
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: my dreams keep coming true because of these great fans.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get together in a couple of weeks and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and we can celebrate h our love for each other.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in Philly in June. I called j
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Elia this week. We're gonna go to a Phillies game. Uh,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that night when we see the Phillies and the Diamondbacks.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm doing the night before, the night before,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing cold Play at the Link. What a week
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: for Simon, Dude, that is a great week. Uh. You
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: know who's on the way to see cold Play right now,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Our good friend Colin Wilson. He is driving from Oklahoma
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: to Chicago. I was just on the phone with him,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Um and uh, he's on the way to see Coldpla
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: and Chicago. I heard it's an amazing show. That so
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: did I. So I had to buy tickets. I mean,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I heard a buddy of mine in the Bay area
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and my sister in the Bay Area both went to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: see him in the Bay Area and independently texted me
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the next day. I said, it's ridiculous, Like, it's so good.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: You know what else is good? Tell me Warriors in five?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Who said that a couple of weeks ago? Was it?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Was it Chad Milman, wise guy who moves lines, who
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: can see what's happening on the court, who understands recency bias,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: And when two NBA experts are saying to him, hey,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: this is why Dallas can do well in this series,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that's great. Warriors in five. Chad Milman is
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: proud of himself. I gotta hope you're right because I
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: have a lot of money riding on it. So do
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you would you get a plus five hundred something like
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: that or like plus three fifty two? I bet it.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: After Game one, I was just like, I think Chad
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: might be onto something, and Dallas just looked way out
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: of their element. And then once it was up three, oh,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I got a little nervous there because it looked like
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it was gonna be actual sweep. But luckily they did
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: what they should have done and they're taking it back home.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm so good at this, it's almost it's almost uncanny.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And the other day I was driving my fifteen year
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: old son and two of his buddies from someplace and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: we were talking about the Mavericks Warriors game and they
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: they the Warriors were up three oh and the game
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: was that night, game four, and they said to me,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: who do you think is gonna win? I'm like, the Mavericks.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: This is a no brainer. Like, there's no way the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Mavericks aren't going to win this game. The Warriors don't
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: do sweeps. They do gentlemen sweeps. That's true. Yeah, it's statistically,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: you're right. They usually just ended at home. So listen Simon.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Four years ago this month, the Professional Amateur Sports Protection Act,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: which had made sports betting illegal, was repealed by the U. S.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court. That was a game changer in a lot
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: of our lives. At that point, I had already left ESPN.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I had left ESPN in September of seventeen to help
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: launch the Action Network, So we were seven months into it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: We were three months into a business at that point,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: four months we had launched. In January, we took a flyer,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: we took a gamble. We wanted to be there when
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: the business started. It happened much sooner than we thought.
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  Speaker 1: All I remember about that day is the number of
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: texts that fluttered in from friends saying, Oh my god,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: sports betting is legal. Are you freaking out? I remember
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I was on the phone Matt Mitchell said I had
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to go, and I remember my mother in law texted
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: me and said, oh, maybe it wasn't a terrible idea
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to leave ESPN. That to me felt like real vindication
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I did desperately, desperately needed it. Four years later, the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: business is exploding, States are legalizing. What do we do
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: at Action? We recruited, poached, stole, hired, whatever you want
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to say from Bloomberg, a multi national media outfit, credibility
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: at the wazoo. But we have become so big. Sam McQuillan,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: who was covering a variety of things for Bloomberg, including
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: sports betting, came to join us at Action to cover
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the legalization beat. What's happening with legislation everywhere all over
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the country. He's killing its breaking stories NonStop. He knows
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: more about what's happening in every state and with the
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: bills that are being passed or not passed in every
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: single state and just about anybody out there. And today
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  Speaker 1: Sam is joining us on the podcast level setting where
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  Speaker 1: we are in the landscape of legal e sports betting. Sam,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that's for coming on, Buddy. Happy to be here, finally
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: make my appearance on America's favorite podcast. Thanks for having
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: me look at that. We didn't even prompt that, Simon.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I want to. There's a lot of things to discuss,
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  Speaker 1: and there's probably four categories. Matt Mitchell, in a pre
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: production Slack broke it down for us. There's four categories.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Fully online this means you're in a state where online
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: and in person betting is available in person only, betting
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: permitted at brick and mortar locations only. That's idiotic. Why
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: anyone we do that? Then they're really not even trying.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: In process, the state legislature in each state is progressing
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: towards some form of legalization and then fully offline. Because
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: remember passport being repealed just meant that any state could
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: do what it wanted to do. There was no federal
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: law instituted by Congress that says, okay, this is what
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it looks like around the country. It is full on
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: states rights every state can do how they want to
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  Speaker 1: do it. The states that have done the best New
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Jersey for sure, and you could argue New York, which
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in the span of five months has become the biggest
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  Speaker 1: betting state in the country. What do you think about
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: New York right now? If you're New York and you
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: just want money in taxes, you've you've done a great
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: job there. I think they've taken in like two million
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: in their first four months. First month they took in
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: sixty five million, which blew blew every record out the water,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: which is crazy for your first month. New York was
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: sort of a situation where the former governor, Andrew Cuomo,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: who has now resigned, wanted he was like, we'll only
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: have sports betting if we make a ton of money
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: out of it. Um. So they ended up passing with
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: tax much operator's dismay um and ended up passing, But
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: they set up shop there anyway. There was a ton
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: of promotions to start, but we've already seen companies sort
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of scale that back say hey, maybe this is untenable.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: We don't know if we can do that. Executives from
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: bet MGM and Caesar's have spoken about, you know, cutting
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: back their marketing UM and saying, hey, this is gonna
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: be passed down to the consumer, it's not sustainable. Um.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, we haven't seen it
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: passed down the consumer yet the money it costs. And
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: we've still seen you know, companies come in and want
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: to take up as much as the market as they can,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: because what really happens when you break into a state
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: is there's sort of this mad scramble. I'm sure you
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: guys have seen all the advertisements everywhere to soak up
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: as much of the market as you can, and then
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: sort of the game plan is maybe a year or
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: two years, we'll scale that back once we have the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: customers cut the promos. So New York is really great
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: right now for the state. It's bad for the operators
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: because they're given away so much money to the state,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: but we haven't really seen the actual impact of that
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: on the on the better yet. So UM, definitely huge
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: appetite to bet in New York, but it kind of
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: remains to be seen how to end up. Well. The
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: way they've been passing along action is in New Jersey,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: sail line is minus one ten. In New York, that
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: same line might be minus one thirty on all the books.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Most interesting to me about the New York is it
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: feels like it was a good test to show how
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: important opening weekend is to get your book open and operated.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Where they and do I look at the numbers, they
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: have this huge lead above k Caesar's all these are
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: books in that state just because that first weekend fandal
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: was up running with. I think it was like a
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: matchup to a two thousand dollar promo, is what they
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: were doing. I believe there's a lot of money that's
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: really worked out for him, And now people taking them
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: crying being like, oh these tax like they knew that
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: going in. So I do think they gonna have to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: redo it just because it's only there's only gonna be
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: two or three big time books. But if the state's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: gonna keep getting money and these operators stay there, maybe
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: they won't. Because you're just saying, you know what, who cares?
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: We have the biggest betting state in America. Why would
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: we change anything? So do you think see anything change
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: anytime soon? So when they passed it, there was optimism
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: between a lot of lawmakers. You know, we can lower
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: this on the back end. We just want to get
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: this done because Cuomo wouldn't allow it to happen without
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the tax Right now that he's out, you know, the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: new governor, she's been a lot more sort of welcoming
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to adding games of the state. She just signed a
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: bill that's going to authorize three new downstate casinos, which
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: as a New York native, is pretty wild to imagine
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: that happening. But they tried to lower the tax rate
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: during the budget this session and ultimately unable to the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: two All makers that have been championing it have been saying,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to convince the legislature to change
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it and make it better as things go. You know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you talked about the product being worse for the consumer
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: than in New Jersey. But the fact of the matter is,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: until New York starts losing revenue, if I'm a lawmaker,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I really have I don't care if the books are
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: making less money. I don't care if people are getting
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: worse lines. That's not my bottom line as lawmaker. I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: want to make as much revenue for the state as possible.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Um and New York has been killing it. You've seen
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a drop in the past couple
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of months, but it's still so much more compared to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: the other states the money they're getting, and that really
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: is just because of the high high tax and how
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: many people are in the state. So the bottom line
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: is until we see that that money drop and the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: state make less, it's not going to change. And it'd
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: be really tough too if they're definitely gonna try, But
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: no time soon. I don't think it's going to change.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: New York has done it right for the consumer, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: when I think about that, I only think about can
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I do it from my phone? And how many markets
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: are available right I'm in Connecticut. I can do it
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: on my phone, but I've only got three operators. I've
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: got DraftKings, I've got fan Duel, I've got bet rivers
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey, low tax rate, tons of operators, and
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I can do it for my phone. Illinois finally doing
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: it right after letting more operators in and allowing consumers
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to do it online. What states right now are in
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Category A, which is the fully online category. So there's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: about twenty states plus Washington, d C. Which are fully online,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: meaning that you can bet on your phone, on your
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: computer and you don't have to go in person to
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: sign up. Nevada is the only place where you have
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: to go in person to side up still, but they're
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: special because they're Nevada and they've been doing it forever.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So it's New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Illinois, Michigan, Virginia, Colorado, Indiana,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: West Virginia, Rhode Island, Arizona, Oregon, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Louisiana, Tennessee, Wyoming, Arkansas, Iowa,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and Washington, d C. Like twenty states fully online, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of the country. How many more states
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: can we expect to be fully online? The real question
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I'm asking is how many states overall is it possible
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to get fully online? Given how many are in person
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: only and how many won't ever allow it. That's a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: great question you alluded earlier to in person being idiotic.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Why would they do that? You know, like you have
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to travel miles in some places like North Carolina to
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: go back at a casino. I think it's three hours
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: from Charlotte to North Carolina's close to casino um, which
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: is pretty tough. But one of the good reasons they
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: do that is because it's much easier to pass in
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: person betting only, and now North Carolina is actually looking
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: at okay. Now that we did this in person, seems
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: to be working. You know, this guy hasn't fallen apart.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Let's expand it online and there's a big appetite for
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that there. So some of those in person states, there's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: about ten of them, they're they're looking at okay, Now,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: what's the next step? Can we go online? There's about
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: six states which are fully offline, which means that they'll
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: probably unfortunately, um, in the next couple of years, not
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: past sports betting. Those are your Utahs, which you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: in Utah there's not even scratch off tickets. I don't
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: think the idea that they'd be open to online gaming
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: is pretty far fetched. Idaho is in that category, as
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: well as Alaska, Hawaii, and Oklahoma, which have a lot
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: of sort of strong religious presences in the state, which
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: are opposed to gambling. UM. Then you have Texas as well,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: which has there's been some more optimism there. Governor Greg
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Abbott is opposed to sports betting. He's up for re election,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I believe in November. UM. One of the candidates he's
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: running against Beta O'Rourke. You might have heard him. He
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: is for sports betting, So I don't know if that's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: really going to sway the election, that sports betting as
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: a single issue voter. But um, the good news is
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: there's optimism there and they'll probably renew it bill sometime soon.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's about you know, six states where it
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: will never happen, and there's about five where we're just waiting.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Maryland has launched their retail casino operations, but it's been
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: a little over two years since voters legalized sports betting
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: in Maryland and there's still no timetable for when it's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: going to go online. They kept pushing back, pushing back
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the date there. In the sort of regulation process now,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: which is what happens after a state passes a bill,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: operators need to be approved, applications need to be looked at,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: they need to be background checks. It's all very involved,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and Maryland is consistently kicked it down the road. They're
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: waiting on some special study. Um, we don't know when
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that's going to happen. Ohio is also going to They've
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: already realized they're gonna launch by the end of the year.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: They announced last week it will be sometime around late December. Um,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: January one at the latest. UM. So it's another state
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that's gonna jump online. Ohio obviously a big sports state
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: UM and honed a lot of people, so that will
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: be big for the operators. UM. And then Kansas and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Maine recently. UM. They're the only two states so far
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: this year that passed sports betting. UM Kansas. I think
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: they're optimistic they're gonna go on by football season, which
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: would be great, great timing. UM and Maine probably take
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: a little bit longer. UM. And then we're still waiting
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: on Nebraska, which is already in person, but UM they're
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: they're yet to lot online. So hopefully that comes next year,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: maybe the year after the playoffs are heating up, and
• 17:09
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• 18:51
  Speaker 1: that's all cute. I feel like there's one state in
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: this conversation that matters. It will blow New York out
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: of the water, and that's California. When is it going
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to happen? What is it going to look like? Yeah,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: so California. Yes, most populous US state is about nineteen
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: professional sports teams there, um and a ton of sports
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: fans um. I get hit up with questions all the time.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: When is California gonna legal clause? The answer is it
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: could happen at the end of the year. There's two
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: ballot propositions which are gonna people are gonna be able
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to vote on during the November election. There would each
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: legalized sports betting in a different way. One is being
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: pushed by the states native tribes, which right now have
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: sort of a monopoly on gambling in the state. They
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: want only to have sports betting at their casquinos on
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: their property, which makes sense after the tribes. And then
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the other is being pushed by the online operators, which
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: are your fan duels bet MGM, Draft Kings. They want
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to operate in the state. So what's
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: happened is each group is openly campaigning against the other's proposal,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: saying why it's bad. Online proposal is going to give
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: a ton of money to homelessness mental health services. That's
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: sort of the way they've been championing it. Tribal proposal,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: their main issue is saying, hey, don't let these out
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: of state companies coming in the state. Once they come in,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: will never be able to get them out. They're gonna
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: eye gaming in the future, which is gonna hurt our
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: bottom line. Um So, combined between both groups, they've spent
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy five million dollars so far and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: we're not even close to November. So if you live
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: in California, you've probably noticed these ads saying not saying hey,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: vote for this thing, saying hey, don't vote for that one,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: don't vote for this one, which a lot of people
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: are concerned is going to create sort of a cannibalization
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: effect where people are so confused they think sports betting
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: is bad. Everyone's been telling them that they're gonna vote
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: for neither. So what could end up happening is both
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: could end up passing, which would allow online betting and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: betting on tribal lands. That's sort of your best case scenario,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: but it's gonna be really complicated, and you're going to
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: see more advertisements. It's going to get uglier every It
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: seems like every week both groups release some sort of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: served all saying why the others is worse, and then
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you've got the card rooms and other tribes that are
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: involved in the mess as well. It's really it's really
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a crazy situation. But if online gambling does pass, um
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: lucky for California different than New York. It'll be about
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: a ten percent tax rate. Operators that wrote the proposition
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: were very smart to include that, because I have no
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: doubt in my mind if the tax rate was left
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: up to legislature they'd say, Hey, New York is making
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: a ton of money, let's just do it the way
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they did it. So if it passes, it will be
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: really good for the operators. But it's still sort of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a fifty fifty no idea what's gonna end up happening there. Look,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: we're very invested parties in this emotionally, not from a
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: lobbying perspective or anything like that, but our business did
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: very well when New York went online, when Michigan went online,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: when Colorado went online, when Illinois went online. Our traffic increases,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: our revenue increases. California coming online in the way that
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: the opera raiders are pushing in the ballot referendum would
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: be massive for Action Network and massive, by the way,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: for all the other media companies that are covering gambling
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and all the operators. I'm gonna let Simon ask a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: question next, but I do want to get your opinion.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Handicap it what happens in November? When is sports betting?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: What happens in November? And based on that, when are
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: we live in California? Man, So every time I make odds,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I'm always wrong about them, and I feel like a fool.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But um, i'd have to say, join the club. You'll
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: fit right in on this show. By the way, plus
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: two fifty that online gambling gets passed, just because of
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: how uncertain it is probably a better chance that only
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: tribal gaming gets passed, but maybe around plus one fifty there,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and then as far as when you'll be able to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: sports bet if they both passed, I think, oh God
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: really knows the answer to that question. We've seen some
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: states like Maryland take nearly three years. We've seen some
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: states like New Jersey take nearly three weeks. California, I'm sure,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: is going to have a lengthy regulation process. They like
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: to be very thorough, if you want to put it
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: that way about all their new laws and industries are
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: bringing in. So I'd imagine it would be more on
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the longer, maybe sports betting online in California by mid
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: For being optimistic late, everyone out there that if you're
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: like me and you love to invest, I mean I
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: love investing, it's dark days right now in the gambling world.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: If you're if you've been buying gameling stock. A lot
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: of these stocks are below what they I mean opened
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: at like I know pens below, DKs below. If you
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: need to take a step back and look out everything
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: this man just let out for you. Ohio is an
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: online yet, California is not online yet, Texas isn't online yet.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: And to me, what I want to ask you about
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: is Florida. What the hell has happened with Florida? Like
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: it feels like it kind of just went away. They
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: literally had sports betting. People are betting on their phones
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: in their homes and then, yeah, what's the update on
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Florida right now? So there is no real update on Florida. Yeah,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: you're right. It was up for about two or three months.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: And basically what they did there was the state passed
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the law, the governor signed it, which allowed one tribe
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to have a monopoly on gambling. There are many tribes
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in Florida. They didn't like it. They didn't like that
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: one tribe got exclusivity over So what they did is
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: they took it to court. They challenged it. There is
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a law called IGRA, which is the Indian Gaming Regulation Act,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I believe, which has to do with Native American tribes
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and what they how they control gambling. So they sued
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: under that in district court a district judge. They effectively
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: paused the operations in Florida indefinitely. Um, there's probably gonna
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: be an appeal, but it's in the court system's hands
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: right now, so there's no timeline for the hard rock
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: app to go back up. It's really sad because this
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: could have probably been easily avoided if the state just
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: allowed all the tribes to partner. I'm not really sure
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: why they gave them, notly to one because it got
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: challenged and struck down. So, yeah, Florida is tough times ahead.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: There was a there was a push to get sports
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: betting on the ballot this year that failed. They have
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: enough signatures, um, and they won't be able to do
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: that next year because of political rules. So it'll probably
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: be at least until until you see any glimmer of
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: hope in Florida. Just pure corruption that is, That's literally
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about there. But that's my whole point
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: with the whole stock thing though, is just that I'm
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: with people that I'm freaking out about it, but I
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: still think it's it's not full panic mode where it's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: like these things are gonna grow. It's still just very
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: early in this whole sports betting thing. Like Chad just
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: talked about, New York is the biggest state we've added recently.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: We've seen what's happened with them. They've really blown up.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: So to me, I get the panic in the whole
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: sports betting community, um with all everything, but I just
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: see there's just so much room for growth. It's just
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: people want everything to be what it was during the pandemic.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Everything was all inflated. But I think now we're kind
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: of at a balance here where it's like, Okay, it's
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: correctly priced, and I'll go up from here. So I
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: would just love to hear where your view is on
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: all these different sports books in their stocks, because I
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: constantly see it online people talking about, well, sports betting
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is up all these states, Drob, why is the stock
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: keep dropping? Yeah? No, that's that's a great point and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: it plays to a lot. What Chad says is that
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: we are not anywhere close to the ninth ending of
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: sports betting, where maybe in the fifth sixth inning, you know,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: we haven't even had We've had seventy percent of the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: states legalized, but as I said before, about only twenty
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: or fully online. And what happens when you know a
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: new state like New York legalizes is these companies lose
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: a ship ton of money if they go in. You
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: see the ads everywhere. You see JB. Smooth on your
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: television talking about being a caesar, you see you know
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Jamie Fox like you see they spend these celebrities are expensive.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: You see if I'm in d C, I see advertisements
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: everywhere when a new state legalizes. That's not when the
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: companies are gonna make money. That's when they're gonna lose
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a ton. So we saw that, MGM, we saw Caesar's
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: scale back the promotions. Uh, it's got a lot of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: criticism as as your point, Um, you just ending money
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: when we're gonna seek growth. But this is sort of
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a long term hold kind of thing. I'm no by
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: no by new means a financial advisor or whatever. These
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: companies aren't going to be profitable for a long long time. Still,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the idea is right now, get as many you know,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: customers as possible, spend all the money, get them to
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: use your apps, Convince them you know that your app
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: is the best. You know. Once California legalizes, they're gonna
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: lose even more money. Like New York, it's gonna be
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be insane, and people are going to freak
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: out about the stocks. But you know, it's a long
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: term thing. That's the whole idea of the business is,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: you know, eventually, hopefully will be profitable, but right now
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: it's spend, spend spent. I feel like, um, between my salary,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: my four oh one K, I got enough money tied
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: up in the gaming industry. I don't need to go
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: by the what could be perceived as depressed stocks in
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the public markets. Right now, I'm out of that game.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: When it comes to gambling stocks, forty years to wait
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: for them to build back up, like me and Sano. Yeah,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: my horizon is different. I'm in the back half of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the game. I gotta be thinking about retirement. I gotta
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: be thinking about, you know, buying a house in Florida.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I can't be thinking about, you know, ten year horizons.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I got five maybe five left something. Just old Sam
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: that's going nowhere. He's addicted to it. I'm old. I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: can't keep up in this racket. Young bucks like you.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: All right, we talked a little bit about this. Florida
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: sucked it up, Illinois sucked it up for a long time.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Louisiana cockamambe rules tied a lot of the horse racing bullshit,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the to betting and did it perish by parish. In
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: every instance, there is a self interest on the part
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: of the politicians who are putting these laws together to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: that buddies have their hands out, relatives have their hands doubt.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not exaggerating to say that there is not even
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: as you said, simon corruption or even malfeasance. It's just incompetence.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Like so many of the people who are making these
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: decisions about how to design what gaming should look like
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and what sports betting should look like are just bad
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: at it, like they're Chad. Yeah, they're just so compromised
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and bad at it. They don't think about what's good
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: for the customer. They are only thinking how can I
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: personally extract value for something? And it's it's just it's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: tremendously frustrating if you're in this business. And I think
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: it has an impact on the stocks too, because so
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: many of the state by state issues, you change it
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: everywhere you go. New York is charging so much, New
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Gergy charging West, New Jersey becoming more mature. New York
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: is getting hard and hard to acquire customers. I mean,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: there's no just positivity in every single market. That said,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: long winded question, who is doing it perfectly? So I
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: don't know if there's a good answer for who's doing
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: it perfectly. You know, you alluded to New Jersey, which
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: has let many many operators come in the state, kept
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the tax right relatively low, which has been good. You know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: we've seen New Jersey to be one of the top states.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: When Pennsylvania, they were one of the earliest when when
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: they contemplated their law, they were contemplating a thirty six
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: percent tax rate, which ended up passing, and the operators said,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: oh no, no, no no, that's too high, will never be profitable. Um,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: you know it's gonna the cost is gonna get passed
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: down to the customers. We can't do that. Couple year, Pennsylvania's,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the states they've seen the most money,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: and and now you have and then you have states
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: that's I mean, thirty compared to New York's is is nothing.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: There's more states that are doing it terribly wrong than
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: states that are doing it terribly right. We can talk
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: about Washington, d c. Which is where I usually am
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: calling in from. They only let one operator their state
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: lottery run online betting, and in turn, you've seen your
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: average line on a game probably and this one thirty
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: minus one twenty. I have to pinch myself sometimes when
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I see plus money on the juice. It's really it's
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: just terrible. And their app went down during the Super Bowl,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: leaving people with no other options to bet. If you're
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: if you're a state, don't rely on one mobile operator.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Chances are they're going to take advantage of the customer.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Chances are they will go down during a very important
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: time like the Super Bowl. UM, we've seen a lot
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: of states to allow operators to deduct or rather right
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: off any revenue tied to promotional bets. That's stuff like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: free bets on your next game or whatever, um freet
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: odds boost on this thing. We've at the states do
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that recently, which has whittled down the revenue they expected.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Some states have looked at sunsetting that where after a
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: few years, once the operators supposedly acquire the share of
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: the market they want to through all these vast promos,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: the states stopped letting them deduct for that. So there's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: really no one state that's done it perfectly. I mean,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: you can look at Nevada. I'm sure you know, people
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: think they're doing things well, but it's more so what
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: not to do, what states to avoid. Um, we've seen
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: a big obstacle be states where there are tribes like Florida.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: It's probably a good idea not to piss off any
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: tribes like you've seen in Florida with them suing and
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: blocking the law. You have other states like Minnesota where
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: they tried to pass something and for years tribes have
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: been opposed to sports betting because what they considered would
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: have let race tracks and casinos and non trick to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: get on the action. And they were going to pass,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: you know, a tribal monopoly bill. But once they said, hey,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: let's amend that, let's let the race tracks participate, the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: tribes killed it with a huge lobbying prests. So there's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of different things you sort of have to navigate. Um,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And every state is complicated in its own way. But
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I would say, as many operators as you can, keep
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the tax rate relatively reasonable. It doesn't have to be
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: super lowed as but don't make it super high otherwise
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: you might see you know, the effects of that come
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: in later. Um. And you know the rest of it
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: is just learning. We have to see what's gonna work
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: well in these states, what's not. You know, New Jersey
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: has been great because it's it's done all those things
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I mentioned. Alright, Sam, that's pretty good roundup. I think
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is be customer friendly and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: let's root for good news. In California, let's root for
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: good news. In Ohio. Now I feel very informed. I'm
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: burying my job. I'm much smarter about betting right now
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: than I was before. I don't know if I can
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: make it better prediction than Warriors in five, but you know,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like at least I know what's going to
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: happen next in every state. Who's gonna be in the finals?
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Why don't you shoot your shot now? Is that? Then?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Versus Boston? This has been a tough one. I've been
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: thinking about it a lot. You know, I watch every game,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I listen to NBA radio in the morning. I'm a
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: huge NBA fan. Definitely gonna be the Celtics and the Warriors,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm having a hard time seeing who wins. The
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Warriors are just so good, and they're so deep, and
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the way Steve Kerr has gotten Moses Moody and Jonathan
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Cominga to get real quality minutes. Jordan Poole obviously has
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: been playing well through the playoffs. Like you know, he's
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: just giving young players who are super athletic real time
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: on the court. That's going to be invaluable in the finals.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to see Boston win it. I love
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: their coach, love what the team did this year. I
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: like teams that are patient and turn around. I like
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the way they built their team. I'd have to go
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Warriors in six. Thank god, Boston fans of the works,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: they have enough championships. Stop giving Boston more championships. I
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: don't mind, Boston fans. I don't mind. That's been the podcast.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: This has been the favorites from the Volume Podcast Network.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I am Chad Milman for Simon Hunter for Sam McQuillan
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: are legal reporter. Follow Sam in addition to finding his
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: stuff on Action network dot com and in the Action
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Network app. Follow him on the Twitter at Sam Underscore
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: mc quill m c q U I l L for
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: producer Matt Mitchell. Download us from Apple, podcast from Spotify,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Rate review, subscribe to give
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: us five stars. Say anything you want. Feedback is a gift.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Until next time, I Love you,