Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #332 - For Azeroth!: "The Medium is the Message"

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#332 - For Azeroth!: "The Medium is the Message" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
I don't want to live in a world where we are in the, you know,
0:03
vanilla and BC days where you were constantly battling for
0:06
threat and it was the only thing a tank could focus on was threat
0:11
and nothing else. That is not engaging and that's
0:14
not fun, Forsaken. For Lord Iran.
0:17
For the Karen tour for. Pandaria.
0:24
For. Calendar to the.
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Burning region for Gilnaeus, but has not died, for the Lich King,
0:35
for the Cindori, for the Alliance.
0:38
For. The Horde for Azeroth.
0:43
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
0:48
I am one of your hosts Manny AKA Truvilla Manny and of course I
0:51
am joined by my 2 Co hosts first introducing Lex.
0:55
Lex how are you? I'm.
0:57
Great Manny, I have AOTC. Congratulations.
1:02
Congratulations to you and Timbermont Tavern.
1:05
This will. Work out treating me great.
1:07
I dally dead in all the the levels that I care about.
1:11
You mythic Raiders, good for you.
1:14
Got it. OK, and and what about the the
1:16
story mode Raiders? Have we forgotten about story
1:20
mode? Like I swear people have
1:21
forgotten about story mode You. Can't also forget about story
1:24
mode. OK, I mean, well again, all the
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modes that you care about I. Did both of those.
1:31
Got it. Wait, that means that you're
1:35
missing another one? I'm guessing LFR then?
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I no, no, you know what? No in all.
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No, she said 2. So no, I'm going to go with
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normal. And heroic.
1:42
I forgot that LFR existed but I have killed Galliwigs and LFR
1:45
because it gives you so much rap.
1:48
I see. OK, I, I at some point I'm going
1:52
to go back and do the raid when it's on like legacy mode.
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I just can't be bothered to go through it right now to try and
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get to like the Galaggio renowned Track 20 and that it's
2:06
no, I'm I'm done with this raid. Moving You're not doing your
2:09
weekly farms to keep your renowned track up to date.
2:12
No, but Manny. How are you going to get top DPS
2:15
against the bosses that you're done with?
2:17
I'm assuming you're just done with rating for the season then?
2:20
Yeah, yeah, very, very much. And then that voice that you
2:23
just heard, of course, was Sean. Sean, hello.
2:27
Hello Sir, how are you? I mean I'm OK, but my question
2:31
is how is the World of Warcraft treating you?
2:33
World of Warcraft has treated me pretty good.
2:35
I am deep in my alt arc right now.
2:38
It's the postseason. It is alt era, my alt era.
2:42
That's right. It's it's famous.
2:44
I've heard people talking about the alt era.
2:47
I have fallen in love with Paladin again.
2:49
Prop Paladin was the first tank I ever played and it is the tank
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I have mained in the most tears. But I haven't played it since
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Aberyst and I went back. I got me never leveled one up
3:01
and geared him up to like a passable level.
3:04
But I haven't like really put any effort in since Aberyst.
3:08
I've been playing with him and I got to tell you, I think I am
3:10
ready to start dancing at the Pink Pally Club because it is
3:16
just all the rights vibes IE today.
3:20
So Divine Toll if you're a protection palate and if you
3:22
ever play protection Palate and if you ever watch someone play
3:24
protection palate, Divine Toll is the single most impactful and
3:28
fun button you can press in the game.
3:30
You launch 5 Shields into the enemies, you hear a giant bell
3:33
toll, they bounce all over the place.
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It's instant snap threat, it's an AOE silence, and you look
3:39
like a golden God spewing discs of vengeance from your body.
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However, since I haven't played them, a sensitive hero talents
3:46
came in to any level that mattered.
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I have discovered that Hammer of Light, which is the Templar
3:51
ability, is the second most impactful and fun button you can
3:57
press in the game. You cast Hammer of Light and
4:01
just a rain of golden hammers from the sky # into the enemies
4:07
in front of you, crushing your foes before you.
4:10
Anyway, Long story short, if there are two scenarios right
4:15
now, Scenario one, we have a a Death Knight on our roster, DPS
4:20
Death Knight who fills in as our de facto blood tank for fights
4:25
where you just have to have those grips.
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He's considering swapping off of Death Knight next year.
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If he swaps off Death Knight next year, then I'm going to
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play Death Knight to fill that role.
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But if he stays on Death Night next year, I will be returning
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to Paladin and I will be a golden, shining beacon of
4:45
righteousness and vengeance tearing my way through the
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dungeons. I can't wait.
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Hey, Warcraft's going well. I mean, I love the enthusiasm
4:56
while defending you today. I had to be like, he's hedging
4:59
his bets. He just wants to see where
5:01
things land. That's why he's doing all these
5:03
different paladins every other day.
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So I'm glad that I caught you on your paladin love.
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I hope that continues through into the next patch.
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But yeah, I mean, you know, it's a or sorry beyond the next patch
5:14
next year rather. But before we get to that next
5:17
patch, we do have sorry that X tier, man.
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Well, that was my segue screwed up.
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Before we get to that next tier, we've got another patch coming
5:28
through, which is 11 point 1.7. And to sort of wet our palate
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for what is coming next week, we got a short story.
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This was a faith in flame. I gotta say that like I'm really
5:43
glad they put it in an audio form so that I could just sort
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of listen to it as I went went through.
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It is it's kind of a three-part. You have one part.
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That was the short story that we got ahead of the war within,
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which dealt with Ferran going through the Arath, the Arathi
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and that entire thing or not sorry, not Farin, but rather
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that was when Thrall and Jana went went through there.
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And now we have Farin, who is getting ready to go back to the
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old world with with our heroes and that will lead into the
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story of 11 point 1.7. So I've got to ask you guys,
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what are your general overall impressions?
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On go. First you want me to go for?
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I enjoyed it. I also listened to the audio
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format. I found the voice acting to be
6:48
delightful. I really enjoy Fair and Lothar's
6:50
voice actor and I thought the story was good.
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It's an hour long. I did see that some people
6:57
complained it's funny. So I, I was watching a popular
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streamer today who often covers lore stuff and talks about a lot
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like a lot of the, the video analysis, things like that.
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And people in his chat were saying how, and, and also in the
7:16
comments of this video, we're saying how they hate the
7:19
Blizzard puts lore like this outside of the game.
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And the part that I found amusing in that statement was
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they were watching a Warcraft YouTube or sorry, Warcraft
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streamer talking about this story and complaining that they
7:37
had to go out of the story to get out of the game to get their
7:39
story. And my thought process is if you
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have two hours to watch somebody play Warcraft in the middle of
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the day, you have an hour to listen to a short story about
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Warcraft in the middle of the day.
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But I really enjoyed it. I thought it was good.
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I thought it was well done. I liked that they gave us a
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glimpse of crochet, crochet and Thornton's ancestry and how the
8:03
arathe sort of came about. And I liked that it gave us a
8:06
little bit more, a little better understanding of who Fahren was.
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But before you tell us what you think of the story, Lex, what
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did? What are your thoughts on?
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I'm pretty sure you're going to say you love it because you're a
8:16
big book nerd like me, but what are your thoughts on Warcraft
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implementing story aspects outside of the game?
8:24
Oh, I think it's, I mean, I think it's important that they
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don't make it so you expect to know it in the game.
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I think it does lead to the, the lore being kind of overly, not
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overly per SE, but it's, it's very different.
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So for example, the story of what's her name, I literally
8:42
pulled crochet. I honest to God don't know if I
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was supposed to know that already.
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Like I, I don't know if that was new in the story at this point.
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If you tell me like a World of Warcraft story, I'm like, that
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was probably in the comics, like I, you know.
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So I think it does make it so that if you are not obsessed
8:59
with World of Warcraft 4, you are not going to know the whole
9:01
story. But the flip side is it means
9:04
that the war, the lore gets to become significantly deeper than
9:07
what you can learn in the story. And I think that's really good.
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I do, I think I'm even on record on this podcast.
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They're getting better about this.
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I think early on in World of Warcraft, the team had a habit
9:18
of hiding anything that could be described as woke in the story.
9:22
So that I think they knew that the people who are going to care
9:25
about that stuff, we're going to be like the Lornerds and the
9:29
people who were going to hate that stuff overall, we're not
9:32
going to read the stories. And so they can't read.
9:34
Yeah, exactly, because they can't read.
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So they could kind of make everyone happy.
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Where if you were going to hate the fact that there were gay
9:42
characters in World of Warcraft, you would probably never
9:46
encounter them. And if you were going to yell at
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World of Warcraft for not having gay characters, they could say
9:50
no. Look, we put it in the book.
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And I thought that was a little cowardly, but I mean, whatever,
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they gave us gay characters. So what are you going to say?
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But I think so I, I'm, I'm picky with my fantasy and this did not
10:04
hit the spot for me, which is like, it's fine.
10:07
I think it's, I think it's funny to say that they don't like that
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this lore is hidden in like outside of the game because I
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don't think I learned anything. Like I feel like they just gave
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me, you know, 30-5 pages of feelings, which is fine.
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You can have 35 pages of like, you know, emotions.
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I just, I I didn't feel like I walked out of this knowing
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anything more about like I and I think actually Manny did make me
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kind of rethink this a little bit when he described this as a
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three parter. Because one of my complaints is
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I don't feel like there was anything in this story that was
10:40
unique that I didn't get out of the voices within short story.
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I feel like all it was the same. You know how people are reacting
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to Faron Faron and how Faron is engaging with people.
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Like all the emotions are identical.
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The potential change is I don't there was nothing about crochet.
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And I will say I think that the best part of the story was the
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children's story in the middle of it, mainly because I think
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that the prose was kind of weak. And I think that children's
11:11
stories like that can tolerate weak prose.
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But anyway, I don't, I, here's the thing, when I dislike
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especially fantasy writing, I kind of switch over in my brain
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from reading for enjoyment of reading the story and reading
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for the enjoyment of being a hater.
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And so it probably is not as bad as I'm making it seem.
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It probably is not like, it's not like it was that terrible of
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prose. It felt like it was that nothing
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of like, you know, a story. It's just that within like a
11:40
couple pages, I knew that I was not going to like it.
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And so then I just started reading it to find issues with
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it, which is really fun for me. I had a good time.
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You got to love read. You can't hate read.
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You got to love read. It was I, I'm.
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Picking would you be? Would you be open to listening
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to the 1st 10 minutes of the audio version to see if it hits
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differently? I I probably should I'm not
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usually an audio book girly so but it's it's possible that the
12:10
voice actor is is what was missing for me.
12:13
And also I want to be clear, these are all personal
12:16
preferences. I also, for example, one of the
12:19
books that I hate read was Gardens of the Moon, which is
12:22
famously one of the best books that like everyone loves the
12:25
Malazan Chronicles. And I hate that book.
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I hate that book so much. So you are allowed like I, I
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don't say any of this. I in fact, I desperately hope
12:34
that nobody's going to hear this and either feel bad about liking
12:37
the book or like read the story and feel like they should hate
12:42
it. I want you to be able to read
12:44
this and form your own opinions, and if you love it, please do.
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Please love this story. There's nothing wrong with it,
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there's nothing bad about it, it's just not the the style of
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fantasy writing that I like. Lex likes her fantasy a little
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more smutty. Yeah.
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Manny, did you? Did you like the short story?
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I think that I understand why Lex didn't like it.
13:07
Like even listening to the audio book, there were especially
13:12
early, there were just some of those sentences that we're just,
13:17
I don't know how you even say it like it.
13:20
I at first I was like, man, this is a poor reading.
13:22
They're fumbling over these sentences.
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And then I'm like, actually, I think this is just how it's
13:27
written. But it did get better as it went
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on. I do think that the the story of
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the queen region that is a plant for later on, that isn't
13:45
something that I have heard of beforehand.
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And it definitely seems like something that might become more
13:54
important as we further explore the Arathi Empire, especially
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since they're making such a big deal of like she was never able
14:00
to find that story again, but it stayed with her.
14:03
Like the importance of that story, but she was never able to
14:05
find it again. To me that that just screams
14:13
that they were taking the hammer of light or whatever and being
14:16
like, you must know, this is important, which I was
14:22
interested in because like, hey, this is cool, this is important.
14:24
But also, again, I don't know what audience they're writing
14:29
for because it did feel a little heavy-handed in some parts.
14:33
That said, the take away other than that is that they are 100%
14:40
shipping Ferren and Anduin that like and so when I look at this,
14:46
I I go, I don't think that there was any part in here that you
14:51
could miss and feel that you were like hard done by.
14:57
I think all of this stuff is going to be reinforced or
14:59
reintroduced later on. And I think that's a good place
15:03
for transform media like transformat media, cross media,
15:13
cross media narratives to be where they can sort of reinforce
15:19
parts, introduce parts, reintroduce it later.
15:22
Like if we're going through later on and we find that that
15:26
book and it's just like a little toy and you and you can read it
15:29
or it's just like a book that you come across to know about
15:31
that that legend. That would be cool if later on
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it is like some things that sort of like lead towards that and
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people who have read this are like, Oh my goodness, that's
15:44
what it is. I think that is cool.
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If later on I need to solve a problem, a puzzle, and it
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requires that I knew this, I'm going to have a problem.
15:53
Right. So at this point, I don't think
15:55
it's made any offense. I do think that the voice acting
16:01
that was Paris Blue, who does act Farron did a quite a good
16:07
job. I, I think that she has the
16:12
energy, she's up, she's uplifting.
16:15
I'm quite surprised because when I look through her IMDb and like
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some of the other stuff that she's done, she is quite the
16:25
range. It is, it is quite exceptional
16:29
and I think that when they add in some of the different voices
16:33
and the effects to that it, it made the story feel more live
16:37
than if I was perhaps reading it half heartedly.
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I have done hate reads. They are actually quite
16:47
enjoyable to be like I am going to pick this thing apart.
16:51
But that's not where I was at with this.
16:53
This was just, I'm going to forgive this for its
16:56
shortcomings and I think that the on balance, this was just a
17:02
nice, enjoyable, quick listen while I was doing other things
17:06
as well. Yeah, I, I did my delve shuffles
17:11
while I was listening to it, so it wasn't like, but if you do
17:14
watch the video, there is some gorgeous B roll footage of the
17:18
Arathi high of, of Halifal, Gorgeous, gorgeous B roll
17:23
footage. If you're a video editor or a
17:27
YouTube for who does Warcraft content, grab some of it for
17:31
your videos because it's really, really nice.
17:35
Yeah. Yeah, I'll check out the I
17:38
should check out the voice acting.
17:39
I'm sure that's I mean, the voice actors in the World of
17:42
Warcraft tend to be pretty top notch.
17:44
So and I didn't like again, there's nothing wrong with it.
17:48
It's not like I'm like this was an offensive part of the book
17:50
and This is why I hate it. It's just it's 35 pages.
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But like, I book is book is a strong word is what I'm trying
17:55
to get across. But it just, I, I, I am very
17:59
picky with my fantasy and the honestly, there's one reason I
18:02
think it's good that the book club never got off the ground,
18:04
because I think it would have been me kind of just being a
18:06
hater way more than it should have been.
18:09
Telling all of our FAZ family that they're wrong for liking.
18:13
No, no, no, no, no, no, no no. You are not wrong for liking a
18:17
piece of media. You are allowed to have
18:19
different opinions as what to what good writing and what
18:22
interesting writing means to you.
18:24
The joy of the world is that we all get to experience and love
18:28
things differently. And if you love this short
18:29
story, I'm so happy for you. Like, please do, please love
18:33
this short story. Read it, dive into it, feel the
18:37
feelings. It can be the best thing you've
18:39
got. Like I'm so 100% and like, I'm
18:41
not even being like kind of like, you know, in genuine here.
18:45
Like enjoy the media that you enjoy and don't let other people
18:49
disliking that media make you feel bad about the fact you
18:53
enjoy media. Now, is it specifically that I
18:58
don't know, just there's times where people say the medium is
19:01
the message. If you consume this in a
19:04
different way. If this was like a little quest
19:07
scenario thing that was in that was in 11 point 1.7 where you
19:13
just sort of like met up with Ferron and then it went into
19:17
this like, oh, you're the little kid and it it went through all
19:20
of that. I think that this is the level
19:23
of Warcraft storytelling. Oh yeah.
19:27
The only, sorry, I'm going to be very honest, I have not enjoyed
19:31
a World of Warcraft novel that was not written by Kristy
19:33
Golden. And even then, it's not like
19:34
the, like top level of, of writing that I like.
19:37
I'm not, you know, there are some writers that I will talk
19:39
about for hours. I really like Kristy Golden's
19:41
work. I am not trying to like, hate on
19:42
her. She's not one of my like, Oh my
19:44
God. And this changed my life
19:45
writers. I, I, I have.
19:49
Yeah. So I think, I think you're,
19:50
you're right. I think it's just that it was
19:52
not a Kristy Golden story. And so it was never going to be
19:55
well, I, I also think the fact that there wasn't really a plot
20:03
and it was mostly just you experiencing like the emotions
20:07
that Faron was having in this moment made it like, that's a
20:11
really hard story to write. And if you want to write like
20:15
if, if you don't have the the fall back of telling an
20:20
interesting story and you just have to focus on the feelings
20:23
and the emotions that are going on.
20:25
Your prose has to be flawless. It has to be interesting and
20:30
engaging without being too fluffy, because there's nothing
20:33
else that I can think about. And so I think that this author
20:37
was given a particularly hard job, right, to write this
20:42
emotional story without much plot.
20:46
I think that's also why I think the strongest part of the story,
20:49
I was mean about the fact that it's because children's, you
20:51
know, like the oral children's storytelling can tolerate a
20:54
little bit of fluff and flamboyance.
20:57
But also it had plot and she wrote a plot.
21:00
Well, she was able to follow plot interestingly.
21:03
So I think that she was kind of hamstrung by the story that she
21:05
was given. I I certainly don't think this
21:07
author is the worst World of Warcraft author I've ever read.
21:09
That's Richard Knack. We don't edit anymore.
21:15
That's that's days. Hopefully Richard's not a
21:18
listener. Won't be after this, but yeah,
21:25
like the I just think that you're right, the emotion,
21:27
emotions are hard to play through, especially in a video,
21:31
a video game. It's very hard to have that
21:35
conveyed a written. The written format is way
21:38
better, even better than I think a movie of being able to put you
21:42
in the mind of a character to be to do that.
21:47
And while this may not have been the best attempt at it, I think
21:50
this was the best format for it is where I was trying to go with
21:54
that. So.
21:54
You. Did.
21:56
Not expect me to start throwing strays.
21:58
No, like I have given up trying to keep this on rails as of last
22:03
episode. So we just sort of try and curve
22:07
with the bullets that you're throwing at people.
22:11
That said. In Lex's defense, if that
22:14
individual didn't want bullets sterile, they should have should
22:16
not have written Day of the Dragon God.
22:20
I. Haven't even run.
22:22
That, but, you know, like. That's also Martin or something.
22:24
No, that's Dancing Dragon. Yeah, if if so, in this that
22:29
author's defense, I haven't published anything.
22:32
So like, what do I have to talk about?
22:35
You're doing better than me. Yeah, you've.
22:37
Published many podcasts and I'm sure in fact I'm acutely aware
22:42
of criticisms that you that you receive as well.
22:44
So it all it happens to all of us that's.
22:48
Lex is getting criticized. Wait, that's that man, you have
22:52
to tell me this. But not on air or I'll cry, but
22:55
maybe off air. OK, so now that I've made
23:00
reduced lexer nervous wrecks, maybe you'll be slower to throw
23:05
those stones in your glass house.
23:07
Anyways, one of the things that is strong about about this again
23:12
is the voice acting and that falls into our second piece of
23:16
news, which is that SAG act AFTRA, which is the voice actors
23:22
that were striking against a number of companies in the video
23:27
game industry, including the Blizzard have come to a
23:32
tentative agreement as of yesterday.
23:36
And then today they suspended their strike, which means now
23:43
it's a suspension. It's not completely done.
23:47
Tomorrow, June 12th, probably by the time you are hearing this,
23:52
they will have met and come to decision on the tentative offer
23:57
that they have received. Now this strike had affected
24:02
Blizzard. As I had said, this is the
24:03
reason that we had no voice acting for Rensic the Shiv in
24:09
11.1, for the Undermine campaign or in the lead up to it in 11
24:16
point 0.7. My hope is that we will, that
24:24
they have come to terms and that will go forward because I do
24:28
think that voice acting really brings a lot to the World of
24:32
Warcraft both in game and outside of the game.
24:37
Now I did reach out to Blizzard for comment ahead of this
24:40
recording. At this point they don't have
24:45
anything to share at this time, but hopefully we will be hearing
24:50
from their PR soon about this. Most likely they're waiting for
24:55
the vote to come to come through.
24:58
I would love if the Rensic VO was unencrypted and maybe they
25:07
allow people to like get the option of going through if they
25:10
if they want. I'd love to see how much that
25:14
the difference is when you know, he's not just like mute and
25:17
everybody's just sort of like quiet for a bit.
25:21
Because it, it did Take Me Out of it both in the 11.0 point 7
25:25
and the 11.1 campaign for it. What, what about you guys?
25:29
What do you think? I'm happy they came to an
25:35
agreement. I love when things go the way of
25:37
the workers. That's awesome.
25:39
I was also really impressed that Blizzard didn't just have
25:45
somebody else redo the voice over that wasn't on strike, that
25:48
they said, you know what, he's on strike.
25:50
We respect that because they they probably also could have
25:53
made the argument that this was recorded pre strike.
25:55
We can air this and I don't know, maybe I'm giving them, you
26:00
know, the credits they don't deserve To me from the roadside
26:03
looking and it looked like this guy went on strike and Blizzard
26:05
said, OK, he's striking. We're not going to use his voice
26:07
over. We'll keep it in the game, and
26:08
we're not going to replace him. And now I like like you, Manny.
26:12
I hope that once it's officially signed that they can make a
26:16
statement saying, hey, you know, we're happy to announce that
26:19
we've hot fixed in Rensic's voice lines.
26:22
But yeah, I'm glad that strike is over.
26:24
Being on strike sucks. My dad was on strike when I was
26:26
a kid. I remember it was miserable.
26:28
He hated it. Nobody wants to be on strike.
26:32
We just people just want what they're deserve, what they
26:34
deserve and they want equal pay and fair rights and all
26:38
whatever. So give them what they want.
26:40
Companies make enough money so. The whole point of a strike is
26:43
that they want to do the job. If they didn't want to do the
26:45
job, they quit. So yeah, no, I fully agree.
26:49
I'm really happy with how Blizzard, I mean, without.
26:51
Again, I don't have an eye behind the curtain, so it's not
26:53
like I know what was going on behind the scenes, but from my
26:56
perspective on the outside, it seemed like Blizzard was doing
26:58
this as well as they could. And that's heartening.
27:04
And I'm also glad that they got an agreement that's that's also
27:07
really good. And I agree, voice acting, as
27:10
was proven by missing a voice actor, is really fundamental to
27:14
making the stories come alive. Also, as can be evidenced from
27:18
the fact that 2/3 of us really like the short story and the one
27:22
who didn't was the one who didn't listen.
27:24
So yeah, like I I think voice acting is really important and
27:27
and really meaningful in how we in interpret the media.
27:30
So I think they deserve to be paid well and fairly and not be
27:34
replaced by AI. Yeah.
27:37
And so this strike has been going since July 26th of last.
27:42
Year. That's that is dended they're
27:48
now obviously they were allowed to complete contracts that they
27:51
were already in, which is why it hadn't affected things until
27:55
later. There was also provisions for if
27:58
a company had done a contract that fit with what they they
28:05
were asking for, you could work for them.
28:08
But between Activision Blizzard and where Activision was before
28:12
this and Microsoft, yeah, like, it did affect some things.
28:19
So hopefully this is good. This.
28:23
I know one of the issues was about use of AI rights to
28:29
digital likenesses of voices as well.
28:32
There's been a lot of, lot of discussions about that ever
28:35
since Lucas started buying up likenesses for people and, yeah,
28:41
just, you know, fair pay for Fair Work.
28:44
We stand with the workers here at For Azeroth.
28:48
Is it? Is it crazy that like in, in my
28:53
naive mind, I want to prescribe to companies like a sense of
29:01
being a good person, Like company like Blizzard is going
29:05
to do what's right. Oh, they see, they're striking.
29:07
They know they want this. They'll make sure they get that.
29:10
Like, in my mind, in my heart of hearts, I want companies to be
29:13
that way. But I had a friend who was often
29:19
vocal in reminding me that all companies are evil.
29:22
None of them are your friends. But like, I just wanted to be
29:26
like, I want to be able to. I want to be able to say like,
29:29
oh, Blizzards going to look out for their employees.
29:31
They're going to look out for the contractors.
29:33
I want to believe, and not just blows, there are other companies
29:35
too, like Apple and whoever I want.
29:37
I want to believe Companies inherently want to do good.
29:41
Then they've done a good job with their PR and you should
29:43
thank their PR. For it, Manny, Were you the
29:45
friend who told me? No, but like just fiduciary
29:49
duties of all companies is to make money their first priority,
29:54
right? And the only priority that they
29:57
are mandated to do is to make money.
30:00
Everything else is superfluous. Yeah.
30:04
Well, I mean, so yes, like companies exist for profit.
30:07
I, I think that's 100% true. And I, I also think like
30:12
companies are also run by people and sometimes like people, as a
30:15
general rule, don't want to cause harm, which is not sorry.
30:19
OK, let me let me back up, let me back up, let me back up, let
30:23
me back up. I'm back up like 20 steps most.
30:25
No, you only have to undo the last sentence.
30:28
You only have to do the last sentence.
30:31
Companies are run by people and people continue.
30:36
People are complicated. People are complicated.
30:39
I OK, I think like ultimately you have to expect that a
30:42
company is always going to put money above people because
30:45
that's like Manny said, that's their job.
30:47
That's what they exist to do. I think it's not impossible for
30:56
for companies to to try to to care about their workers.
31:01
I actually would argue that the concept that the the most
31:06
companies do seem to buy into that their job is to make as
31:09
much money out of people as quickly as possible and as hard
31:11
as possible is incredibly short sighted.
31:14
And that you can get a lot like even if you all you focus on is
31:17
the value, like the money you bring in, you get a lot more
31:20
value if you treat people well, if you're compassionate, if you
31:23
care about them, if you make people feel cared about and
31:25
important. I make less money in my job than
31:28
I could if I went elsewhere, but I feel like my company cares
31:31
about me. I work there through COVID and I
31:33
felt like I was taken very good care of and that they were
31:37
prioritizing me and the people that I worked with.
31:39
And that means that I always like anytime looking for a new
31:43
job, the 1st place I work is internal, right?
31:45
I trust my company and this might age poorly.
31:47
There's there's a risk time to get laid off and then I'll feel
31:51
worse about it. But like, anyway, so I don't
31:54
think, I don't think you should ever trust a company, but I
31:57
don't think that companies are like apparently mindless evil
32:00
money machines. No, that's OK.
32:04
I think prescribing a emotion or morality to a company is a
32:11
fool's errand. I think that you have to
32:14
understand that companies, by their very nature, right, do not
32:22
have a moral compass. They have priorities that are
32:26
set on them. And we're going to leave it at
32:31
that because this is a show about for Azeroth and we are not
32:35
fighting galliworks anymore. Everybody's finished galliworks
32:39
now, so we're moving on. We will have this conversation
32:43
after the show. Wait, so I just want to say, is
32:46
it OK for me to wish that the world wasn't like that and that
32:51
it was the way that I want it to be?
32:54
I invite you to wish in one hand and shit in the other.
33:00
Anyways, talking about something a little bit more plausible.
33:05
Tanks have gotten more threat. So Blizzard deployed this hot
33:11
flick, this hot fix today, buffing tank tank threat from I
33:18
believe they were at 815% and put that up to 950% and I
33:26
actually was able to pull up my notes.
33:27
So I did get that right, and that's an increase of 16.5%
33:33
threat. Now, a lot of people that have
33:37
been complaining about tank threat, I think that Blizzard
33:40
has done this to sort of head off where we're going as stats
33:44
have been boosted and DPS are starting to like get further and
33:48
further ahead of tanks. Tank threat needed to be
33:52
adjusted in that way. But tank threat is a very
33:58
interesting thing in the World of Warcraft because it's just
34:00
got such a winding history. At some points, tank threat was
34:05
like the thing that tanks were dealing with.
34:08
At other points, tank threat has been so not an issue where tanks
34:16
have just been able to do anything.
34:18
And Blizzard has been fighting it more more recently to find a
34:22
sweet spot so that tanks weren't able to just run around and kite
34:27
and not actually stand in front of of the enemies generating
34:32
threat. So John, you are the resident
34:36
tank. I've got it.
34:37
I've got to hand us over to you. What do you think about the
34:41
current situation of tank threat in your place?
34:46
I would like to speak for all tanks and I think I'm qualified
34:48
to do that. Nope.
34:50
Keep going though. As always, I will speak strictly
34:54
to my own point of view. So tank threat is there's a lot
34:59
of nuance to tank threat and the issues currently with tank
35:03
threat. The biggest of which is that
35:08
there are a lot of tank abilities that are just bugged
35:10
and do no threat. For example, if you're a
35:13
Vengeance Demon Hunter and you use Sigilo Flame on a pack,
35:17
before you're in combat with that pack, it generates 0
35:21
threat. What?
35:22
Zero if you pull the Sigilla Flame, which you are recommended
35:26
to do because it builds your Perry stacks, that's Sigilla
35:29
Flame. If that pack is not already in
35:31
combat with you. Generates 0 threat.
35:33
On them? Is that why I'm sorry?
35:36
Hugo as well throw glave on a Demon Hunter in the tool tip
35:40
says does a very high amount of threat and it does approximately
35:44
the same amount of threat as if you body pulled, which is almost
35:47
none. So, and these are not the only
35:53
tank threat. Make your tank damage mechanics
35:55
and don't do threat. The way threat works is you get
35:58
a damn the modifier man gave us the numbers.
36:00
You get a modifier based on the damage that you do with your
36:02
abilities and that's it. Taunt will give you.
36:05
I think it's a 300% threat modifier on top of that.
36:08
So the normal normal threat modified by 300% for three
36:11
seconds and then when that ends you have to be at the top.
36:15
To pull threat from a tank, a melee DPS has to do 110% of the
36:20
threat that a tank is doing. To pull pull a mob off and
36:24
arrange DPS has to do 130%. Now there are some speculations
36:29
that classes that have tank alternate classes like feral
36:34
Druid still have the tank threat modifier on some of their feral
36:38
druid abilities and that's why they pull threat more often.
36:41
That's not been confirmed, but that is a tinfoil hat theory
36:44
that exists. Lots of evidence that usually
36:47
backed them up. So tank threat is a known issue.
36:52
We have obviously instances of devastation warlocks who have a
36:57
buff. Their mastery gives them more
36:59
damage on a pack of mobs the higher their health is.
37:02
When is their health the highest?
37:03
At the start of a pole. When is tank threat the lowest?
37:05
At the start of a pole devastation of ogres the world
37:09
around have been one shot and clapped by mobs because of tank
37:13
threat. Especially when they get those
37:14
procs. Especially when they get those
37:16
procs. Yeah.
37:17
And it's not. And I know like for anybody been
37:19
playing a long time and Manny made, you know, alluded to the
37:21
fact that tank threat has changed over the years and it
37:24
has and I think it does need to fundamentally change again for a
37:27
balance somewhere in the middle. Nobody wants to go back to up
37:29
tank tags at once and then can infinitely kite packs.
37:32
That's not fun for anybody. And I don't think anybody wants
37:34
to return to you have to wait for five sunders before you do
37:38
anything because standing there for five full seconds while you
37:41
wait for five sunders isn't fun gameplay for anybody.
37:45
I don't I don't believe so. We need to find a happy middle
37:48
somewhere. This modifier bump I feel, and I
37:53
think a lot of the community feels is a Band-Aid on that fact
37:58
that some things are bugged and aren't doing any threat at all
38:01
and that they there's a fundamental change needed in the
38:03
way threat is dealt with. This will help a little bit and
38:09
if you play mostly in like the seven to 12 range, maybe you
38:15
don't notice this as much, but you probably do because it still
38:20
happens to at all levels. Another issue that comes up is
38:23
when you're in a raid and this year was especially bad when one
38:28
tank is actively tanking the boss and the Co tank pulls
38:31
threat just by doing their rotate like no crits, nothing.
38:33
They're just doing their rotation and they pull threat.
38:35
And that that can be a problem because bosses can be become
38:38
taunted immune. If that happens, you can eat a
38:40
front or eat a tank Buster you didn't mean to eat.
38:43
So those are so, so those are some of the issues.
38:47
Is this going to help maybe a little bit?
38:51
Is it the, the full solution? I definitely don't think so.
38:54
I do have a solution that I think would be I, I, I have a, a
38:59
A-frame of mind where it's like, I have an, I guess suggestion of
39:02
this is where I think they could find a happy medium.
39:04
And it actually came from the game Fellowship.
39:09
Before we run into. Do you like the game Fellowship?
39:13
Sorry man, you. Before we run into your
39:18
potential solutions, and I would like to offer solutions as well,
39:21
I would want to get Lex's because like I'm sure a lot of
39:26
that information might have been like, wait a second, is this why
39:29
I'm not having issues and that sort of thing.
39:31
But like, I think it's definitely exasperated when you
39:35
are just getting into tanking when your gear isn't that good
39:40
because it is a modifier. It is.
39:44
It does mean that if you are like, let's say you're not
39:47
normally taking you jump it onto the tank, but you're running
39:52
with your guildies that are really good.
39:54
The rotation have been like gearing, gearing to the nines
39:57
and that sort of stuff. This these threat issues are
40:00
going to come in more often. And then, of course, like Sean
40:04
was saying in in raid, I'm sure you've you've seen it from time
40:07
to time where Oh, no off tank pull threat.
40:10
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Let's talk back.
40:12
So what's your been your experience with tank threat?
40:15
Yeah, so first of all, this changed my life.
40:17
Like quite genuinely, I this has made me feel so much better
40:19
about myself with the tank, because I thought I must be the
40:21
world's worst tank because I was struggling so much to maintain
40:25
pack aggro. And I mean, part of that is that
40:27
I'm going to do tank and pack aggro is tough.
40:29
The part of that is because anytime I wanted to get pack
40:30
aggro, the only thing I could I think I was Thor clave and then
40:33
I they didn't there's no finding matter like I'm suck on the left
40:36
tankers ever lived the. Tool tip says high threat.
40:43
And also I am, I mean, and this is probably not like 100%
40:47
fixable, but I, I do tend to off tank for the raid if our current
40:52
second tank is away and our one of our like actually both of our
40:57
tanks, I don't know. I'm I'm numbering them.
40:58
They're not, they just want to have been a tank for longer.
41:01
Both of them are really talented players and I am a really new
41:03
tank. And part of that is just the
41:05
reality of like how side is generated.
41:07
But I am constantly dropping aggro and feeling terrible about
41:11
that. And I'm also constantly
41:12
struggling to pull even with taunt.
41:14
Although also I thought taunt just immediately blasted them
41:16
with aggro generation, I didn't. Realize so it does.
41:20
It forces them to. Focus you for three seconds and
41:23
then you get a bump to the threat you're generating.
41:25
Yeah, it resets their threat table.
41:28
It gives you the 300 on top and then and forces them to attack
41:32
you. And then after that force
41:33
attack, whatever, whoever's on top of the threat table, that's
41:36
who they'll go to. But hopefully because you've now
41:39
reset the threat and had this head start on with the 300
41:44
boost, you should be on top at the end of the taunt window.
41:47
Gotcha. So yeah, I mean, I, I will say I
41:52
struggle a lot with threat and that makes tank not as fun for
41:56
me and makes especially Mythic plus stressful.
41:59
I'm also a new tank and there is the constant balance you need to
42:05
walk between making something fun for new players and not
42:08
making it boring for old players.
42:09
So I think threat generation in a way that I could easily manage
42:12
threat would make tanking just the most boring thing that Sean
42:15
has ever done in his life, for example.
42:18
So it's good to know that it is actually some of these things
42:21
are actual issues that the entire group is aware of and
42:23
that maybe they'll get better. But I think a lot of it is also
42:26
that like realistically, if I can be Co tanking with no issues
42:32
with a tank who's been tanking for ages and is doing purple
42:34
parses, then that is that that would be a problem as well.
42:38
And I need to be able to like there needs to be scale in
42:41
taking. Don't be too optimistic, those
42:43
Demon Hunter bugs have been in the game since Legion.
42:46
Oh good. So from there, I guess we could
42:53
talk about potential solutions and I've got some incredibly
42:58
radical ones. So I want to go with Sean
43:00
because yours is probably going to be more within what is this,
43:04
the Overton window of tank solutions Anyways, go ahead.
43:08
Yeah, so I so for me, there's two things I don't want.
43:15
I don't want to live in a world where we are in the, you know,
43:19
vanilla and BC days where you were constantly battling for
43:22
threat and it was the only thing a tank could focus on was threat
43:26
and nothing else. That is not engaging and that's
43:29
not fun. The biggest cause for a lot of
43:32
tank deaths in bugs. If you're running bugs and your
43:35
tank dies suddenly you're not sure why, go back and see if
43:38
ADPS pulled threat. Because the way tank brain works
43:41
is as soon as somebody's nameplate changes and that mob
43:44
goes to run after somebody else, they forget everything else and
43:47
they're just trying to get that mob back.
43:48
Which means they're probably turning their back to the other
43:50
mobs. They're probably missing a tank
43:52
Buster, they're probably missing defensives, all in the name of
43:55
trying to get the threat back. So I don't want to live in a
43:57
world where I am constantly playing that game of chasing
44:01
threat down. I also don't want to live in a
44:03
world where I tagged them once with a Thunder clap and then I
44:05
can kite them to the next boss. That's not fun or engaging for
44:09
me or anybody else. So those are the two things you
44:12
want to avoid. But there is a nice happy medium
44:15
and, and part of this is through fellowship.
44:17
The way fellowship works is you get bonuses for executing things
44:21
in correct sequence. So there's a there's one of
44:25
their characters who it works like jazz, like temponic jazz.
44:29
And it's like boom, boom, boom. And you go through it's like
44:32
ability ability, another like you hit these abilities in these
44:35
certain key points, you know, like 12123121 that and and doing
44:41
this gives you these bonuses. So obviously Warcraft isn't
44:43
designed that way, but Warcraft is designed for some abilities
44:47
to work together naturally in your in your proper rotation.
44:51
Brewmaster monk, for example, you cake smash first because
44:54
that covers the enemies in in alcohol.
44:56
Then you do the fire breath, which then lights that alcohol
44:59
on fire. Then you can like like swirly
45:02
leg kick thing. I don't play a lot of
45:05
brewmasters, my least hair tank, but that is AI think it's
45:08
elegant in the way that their rotation works in that, you
45:10
know, you could think about that like, oh, I cover them in beer.
45:13
I like the beer on fire. This is how I progress, progress
45:16
this and you know, keep it going.
45:18
You mixing your blackout punches and whatever.
45:22
So what I would like to see is a world where one when a tank, I
45:25
think the the the highest point of risk of a tank losing threat
45:29
should be when the mobs are away from the tank.
45:32
So on pull, if you're pulling at range and then going to them,
45:36
you have the potential there that DPS could pull off.
45:39
This is what incentivizes DPS to wait till the mobs are grouped,
45:42
which is sort of where we're at now.
45:43
But I think once, once any tank is in melee range of any mobs,
45:49
as long as they're executing their rotation correctly, there
45:53
should. And we, and we have like
45:54
Blizzard has a set rotation that they expect people will do for
45:57
like a dam rotation because it's in the one button rotation.
46:00
And this I think matches with it elegantly because you could bake
46:03
it into the one button rotation. If the tank is executing the
46:06
rotation correctly in the correct order, they get a
46:10
amplifier to threat and they can like they will not lose threat
46:13
to those mobs outside of a taunt as long as they're in melee
46:16
range and they're executing the rotation in the correct order.
46:20
Then if they go to kite, which we may have to do in mythic plus
46:23
obviously we get to levels where the damage gets so high.
46:25
You do have to kite occasionally.
46:26
Start of the season you have to kite occasionally.
46:28
When you start to kite and you pull away again you that's when
46:32
you come to risk with losing threat.
46:34
Either we can have threat diminish at distance or just by
46:37
threat, not by not gaining threat because you're moving
46:39
away the other DPS their threat raises so that you're not
46:43
infinitely kiting. You can just kite for small
46:45
periods of time. This incentivizes proper play
46:48
for players. It double s down on, you know,
46:51
the correct rotation, which Blizzard is implementing
46:53
themselves into the game that each class has a correct
46:56
rotation. And this eliminates that that
47:00
feeling of I'm, you know, I hope my dev, I hope my Devil Volcker
47:03
doesn't crit because then he's going to pull threat and then
47:06
I'm going to be screwed here because I don't have an AOE
47:08
taunt because only two tanks have an AOE taunt.
47:11
What if he pulls all the mobs? And I think that is an elegant
47:14
way to both keep tanks engaged because it lets you focus on
47:17
making sure you're executing your rotation and you're still
47:20
thinking about your defensives, You know, And tank is the the
47:25
most complicated job in the dungeon.
47:27
And I think by removing this one layer of that constant fear that
47:33
threat is going to just be ripped is a nice way to keep it
47:36
still complex, but but keep it, you know, so that it's open for
47:39
new players to join. And then if a new tank wants to
47:41
play, Flex says, Hey, I want to start try tanking.
47:45
They can use the one button rotation initially to to get
47:48
that to hold and maintain threats.
47:49
So they learn how to use defensives, how to pull packs,
47:52
what routes to do. And then once they've gotten to
47:55
the point that they're comfortable doing that, then
47:56
they graduate from the one button rotation, maybe to button
47:59
assist or maybe right into the rotation where they set it up
48:02
like a super cool Achille like Manny did, which I still think
48:05
is the most elegant use of the one button rotation I've heard.
48:09
But that is where I think a nice happy meeting will be.
48:11
It lets DPS play without constant fear that they're going
48:14
to get a crit and then die. It lets tanks play and keeps
48:18
them engaged with fighting the mobs.
48:21
And I would like to see a shift towards something like that
48:25
where we get those bonuses in combat.
48:29
Yeah. That's it.
48:33
So I, yeah, I do believe that is like the one of the more
48:37
straightforward ways that they could, they could fix it.
48:41
Obviously it is a balancing act. It is how much threat they need
48:46
to like bump it. And that will change over the
48:48
course of an expansion as DPS get higher numbers and the
48:53
damage between tank and DPS gets further and further.
48:58
And so I guess that's sort of where they're at right now.
49:00
We're yes, sometimes they will have to adjust it in the middle
49:03
of an expansion. Hopefully they can make those
49:06
adjustments with the launch of a patch and not when they start
49:10
noticing people getting smeared across the floor.
49:13
Now the other, the other thing that I was thinking of was a
49:19
more active threat engagement. This is something that they used
49:25
to do in the past. They used to have things like
49:28
wind shear that would reduce your threat for a certain period
49:30
of time. Rogues had tricks of the trade,
49:34
and I think they still do to hand it over Hunters.
49:38
Again, having their misdirect and having some classes have
49:42
that sort of sort of stuff would become a utility that would
49:49
shake up metas in terms of mythic Plus where you'd be like,
49:53
oh, OK, not only do we need the bloodlust, the battle rez, we
49:59
also should have some sort of threat misdirection, tricks of
50:04
the trade because that will allow us to pull more, more
50:07
effectively and do those do those things.
50:10
And what I want or what I am suggesting here is that the
50:15
threat game not be purely on the tank and not be something that
50:20
is not something that is constantly a worry of one
50:29
player. I think that as they are looking
50:32
to adjust difficulty and move it out of one place and put into
50:36
another, threat is a place where it could become part of the
50:40
game. I just don't think that threat
50:42
with the current meta is really something that tanks and DPS
50:47
should be worried about because there's so much going on in the
50:50
game or so much that you need to be paying attention to that
50:56
threat on top of that is too much.
50:57
But if you're going to adjust the game, if you're going to be
51:00
like, hey, maybe not everybody needs to be 100% on top of their
51:05
interrupts every pull. If you're going to to do that
51:10
sort of stuff, then yeah, you could have maybe a healer that's
51:14
like, hey, as long as I've got this buff on you, it lowers your
51:20
threat by by a certain percent or all all focus because all
51:26
focus need need some love right now.
51:29
What if while they are giving you like a particular boost,
51:34
they they like lower the threat from those people who are
51:38
getting that or boost tank threat for certain period during
51:41
that. That can work alongside Tricks
51:43
of the Trade, that can work alongside Misdirect.
51:46
And I think though that sort of use is something where it's
51:49
like, OK, let's do the big poll, let's have the big burst go
51:53
down. Because really the the time that
51:57
you are most likely to lose threat right now is those big
52:01
burst moments. I think that when people, the
52:04
DPS and the tanks are equally geared and no other variables
52:09
are in there, the IT is when the procs go off, when the mastery
52:17
is going at its fullest that that tanks are having having the
52:21
issue right now. And so if you could cover those
52:25
moments with intelligent play, then threat becomes good again.
52:30
If like the tanks that have the AOE taunt are like, OK, like
52:36
I've got my AOE taunt and the other tanks have like, here's my
52:40
like big boost threat to buff where now like I've reflect the
52:47
damage and any damage reflected is suddenly like way more.
52:51
And so they go like, OK, like I can do stuff like just different
52:54
ways of playing of like being able to play with threat, but
52:57
not in a way where it's so micromanaged.
53:00
I think that that's something and I I want to talk about
53:03
gameplay options over perhaps like UI things because they are
53:09
trying to tear away from the UII wouldn't want threat meters to
53:12
now have to be baked into everything and now everybody's
53:14
watching their threat meters. Just do name plates you can do.
53:18
I mean we do it now with plater, so instead of having to.
53:20
I actually think your solution is really quite elegant, having
53:23
it be a total group puzzle to solve as opposed to one player.
53:28
Because rogues have faint, priests have fade, you know, you
53:30
can faint out that kind of stuff.
53:32
Tricks of the trade is OK. Those abilities would need a bit
53:36
of a rework because misdirect on BM hunters does nothing.
53:39
It's the pet damage isn't included for some reason.
53:41
It's just the Hunter's damage, which is like nothing.
53:44
But I do think that's like, that's a really interesting way
53:48
to tackle the problem of, you know, everyone.
53:50
So it could be like a case of, you know, your elemental shaman
53:53
gets a proc, he hits a sentence, you know, and then, you know, he
53:56
starts blasting and then halfway through he's got a wind shear.
53:59
Like I actually think that's because the tank might not
54:01
recognize, Oh, he proc this is going to get weird.
54:04
I actually think that's a really, but I think it's a
54:08
really interesting way to do that.
54:09
And yeah, I wouldn't want nobody wants to be watching threat
54:12
meters. That's insane.
54:13
But name. So right now name plates change
54:15
color based on threat in Plato, not in the base UI, because the
54:18
base UI name plates were written in 2003, but the plater name
54:23
plate, they're reworking them. I'm interested to see what they
54:25
do. But plater name plates, you have
54:26
them so they change color and you can it'll say like, Hey, you
54:29
are a boat. If you're tanking, it's you have
54:32
threat, you don't have threat or you're a boat to lose threat on
54:34
this mob. And for DPS, it's you have
54:37
threat, you don't half threat or you're about to get threat on
54:39
this mob if they just bake that in.
54:41
I think your solution works really well there.
54:44
And then it becomes, you know, it's still the tank's
54:47
responsibility, but it sort of takes a little bit off the
54:49
plate. I like that.
54:51
I would be down for that. I think that will be an
54:53
interesting way to try it. Also makes it easier for range
54:56
to not have to spend like constantly be running in and
54:58
doing stuff like that, which could also open you up
55:00
potentially to more interesting mechanics if you can make range
55:04
a little bit more unique in what they have to do when they really
55:06
can't be in the group. Have we all ever agreed on
55:09
something before? This is crazy.
55:11
I'm I'm sure we have like I, I just, I think that there's so
55:14
many options and I would love if they would say like, oh,
55:20
healers, you can start like specking into this and then it
55:25
becomes like, Oh, now when I do like, let's say I am a resto
55:31
Jurid and I typhoon and that typhoon is like they get pulled
55:34
in. They're they lose threat on, on,
55:40
on on non tanks with my hots on them and stuff like that.
55:45
And then you would start using these sort of things in like
55:49
creative ways to like be like, OK, well, threats, threats, an
55:52
issue with this pack or whatever and play along.
55:55
I just think it's it's a part of the game that I wouldn't want to
55:58
completely remove and I don't want to throw it purely on tanks
56:01
because the current gameplay is so like tanks are dealing with
56:07
route, with routing, tanks are dealing with their defensives,
56:14
Tanks are already dealing with like the pace of pulls based on
56:19
how on like following DPS cooldowns and healer manner and
56:23
all of that. There's all this information
56:25
that tanks are dealing with and as Adpsi feel like DPS is
56:32
interrupt everything and do damage.
56:35
And I think you could, if you're removing that interrupt a little
56:40
bit, you could fill that void and make it just something else
56:44
to to deal with that isn't I'm going to die or it's a healer
56:48
problem. Yeah, that also because going
56:51
into the new mentality, the tonal shift we're making with
56:55
add-ons and complexity and dungeons and raids and the
57:00
direction Blizzard says they're going, you know, there is a
57:03
genuine concern for some people that things will be either the
57:07
if they hit the target that they're looking for, the things
57:10
will be too simple, it'll be boring.
57:13
And then by shifting this, you take some of that, you take some
57:16
of that complexity and keep it in.
57:18
But instead of the complexity just being make sure we a we
57:21
stop when we're supposed to, make sure we kick the cast,
57:23
we're supposed to it. It makes it a little bit more
57:25
robust. It's like, yeah, we're still
57:27
watching for big cast, we're still watching for important
57:29
stops, but we're also watching this aspect that we're all able
57:32
to engage in. Yeah, that's I I have not heard
57:37
anybody suggest that yet. I like that.
57:41
Might steal it for streaming tomorrow.
57:43
Go ahead, I will try and get this episode out after the
57:47
stream so that you look like the superstar with with that said,
57:53
that is tank threat. That is that is causing people a
57:59
lot of consternation. I do think that this buff I know
58:04
you said it might help, but it will help.
58:05
We just don't know to what degree I and I think that yeah
58:11
like looking forward to going into 11 point 1.7.
58:16
You did say though you did talk about the one button assists and
58:22
the rotation, the rotational assistant.
58:27
But I did want to say that having been on the PTR just
58:31
today, just testing to see what it looks like when it's going
58:34
live, it does follow our add on conversation that we're having
58:40
here that we've had in previous episodes.
58:42
It's a start. It definitely could benefit from
58:45
customization being able to tweak it to help me.
58:51
I do want to say there are very deliberate gaps that I think
58:58
that this is where they're trying to get that 96%.
59:02
We already talked about the increased GCD in the one button,
59:06
right? And last week we're talking
59:08
about how, hey, it does do updates as it goes.
59:12
But Hi Kelly is smarter than this because Hi Kelly is giving
59:18
you the next three and Hi Kelly is going by a rotation that has
59:25
been sort of mapped out, while this one is just seeing it's
59:29
basically a priority list based on what is active right now.
59:33
And so big one, I think a big one is pandemic.
59:40
Now for those of you who aren't aware of what pandemic is, it is
59:44
when you have a heal over time or damage over time and it has a
59:48
certain amount left, you can refresh it and that amount left
59:52
will get added on to the duration of the next one.
59:56
The rotational assistant does not understand that.
1:00:00
So if your dot is on, it won't tell you to refresh it until it
1:00:04
falls off. That is Adps loss for every
1:00:09
class. That has a hot with you know
1:00:13
what, there's probably some niche out there.
1:00:14
Please don't come at me. No, it's every class man.
1:00:17
He doubled down every class. That's the DPS loss for all of
1:00:20
you, right? If you disagree you can jump
1:00:24
over to the discord if I don't know the discord.
1:00:28
Yeah, it is the same thing with abilities coming off cooldown.
1:00:35
It like there are times where people will like hold off on
1:00:40
certain abilities to make sure it's within their cooldown
1:00:42
window and all. Like throw in and throw in a
1:00:45
filler. This one will tell you to do
1:00:47
your cooldown even if like you, you might be better off holding
1:00:51
it off. Or the the opposite where it's
1:00:53
like you're casting a spell, you are seeing what it's suggesting
1:00:58
next, but the next ability, but the better ability is about to
1:01:01
come off and cool down. And Kelly will obviously be
1:01:03
like, hey, listen, by the time the spell's done, go cast this
1:01:06
one. While this one will say, oh,
1:01:08
it's not off cooldown now and then you'll be halfway through
1:01:10
casting your your filler spell. And if like, no, no, no, this
1:01:13
one, this one. So there, there are limitations
1:01:18
to it. I think that those limitations
1:01:20
are are purposeful at this point.
1:01:23
They've done a lot to to fix it up so that it is doing what I
1:01:30
think it should have done all along.
1:01:32
It is a great thing for people who have maybe like, you know,
1:01:36
trying out a different spec or trying out a class for the first
1:01:41
time and you just get like a feel for it.
1:01:45
And so I think that in general, it is placed pretty, pretty well
1:01:52
for that. The one button assists, same
1:01:55
sort of same sort of thing there.
1:01:57
If you are just jumping on a class for the first time or like
1:02:01
let's say Lex, you are, you're doing your tanking and you want
1:02:05
to focus on the other parts of tanking like your defensive
1:02:11
cooldowns, like your pathing. This will help you with that.
1:02:16
But I do think that for tanking and for healing, this might do
1:02:20
more damage than, I'm sorry, this might do this might
1:02:24
interfere with what you're trying to do more than you might
1:02:28
want. Because let's say you're you're
1:02:31
playing your warrior and you really should be pooling your
1:02:37
rage to use your defensive abilities.
1:02:42
But this thing's just constantly telling you to do DPS.
1:02:45
At certain point you're going to have to understand and preempt
1:02:48
it and say, Nope, I need to put put up my my defensive with
1:02:53
this, these resources instead of doing the execute and rage
1:02:57
dumping and so forth. So definitely good for DPS use
1:03:03
with care for healing and tanking.
1:03:09
With that said, what's the number one thing that you guys
1:03:13
are looking forward to with 11 point 1.7?
1:03:18
I'm going to give this one to you first, Sean.
1:03:21
I still lore walking but I do have to make a correction.
1:03:24
I'm I'm excited for the Rathi stories all but lore walking is
1:03:27
my number one thing. So there was an interview that
1:03:30
was poorly written that made it sound like Maria Hamilton said
1:03:34
that we were getting 38 lore walking stories but that is not
1:03:38
what she said at all. There are three lore walking
1:03:42
scenarios coming with the launch of 11 point 1.7 and there was a
1:03:46
fourth that was data mined that we may get at some point,
1:03:50
hopefully before 11.2. But more walk.
1:03:53
I'm very excited for lore walking.
1:03:55
I love those little mini bite size story things and also I'm a
1:03:58
big fan of Laura Walker Cho. Anytime we have a chance to
1:04:01
listen to Pooh Bear just makes me really happy.
1:04:05
OK. And Lex, are you also on the
1:04:08
lore walking chain or do you have something else that you're
1:04:11
looking to? I'm excited.
1:04:12
I'm excited for themselves. We'll see how much I actually
1:04:15
play them. I mean, I'm excited for the cute
1:04:17
little belt. I'm excited to feel special
1:04:19
because I'm a delves player and I get my cute little belt and
1:04:21
then my cute little belt is useful next season or it's not
1:04:23
and then I feel sad because I was excited about my cute little
1:04:25
belt. And I'm also obviously, as we
1:04:29
know, excited to get my dog to play with me.
1:04:31
It's not going to be an 11 point 1.7 though.
1:04:32
That's in the future. That's a future goal.
1:04:35
I am really sad about, OK, I'm of two minds of the belt.
1:04:42
I'm kind of sad because as it's positioned right now, it's about
1:04:47
like 10 item levels underpowered.
1:04:50
So whatever item level you have, just knock 10 and that's roughly
1:04:54
where it's at. But it already goes up to I
1:04:58
believe 700. Yeah, 694 I think.
1:05:03
Yeah, which makes it equivalent to the highest level we can get.
1:05:10
So like, it it it's it's something that you should get
1:05:16
leading into the next expansion as a rather the next the next
1:05:20
tier, but you're going to immediately replace it.
1:05:22
Which makes me think that Blizzard is probably going to do
1:05:25
exactly what they've done a million times before with this
1:05:28
borrowed power. They're going to buff it to the
1:05:31
moon and then part way through or like just ahead of the next,
1:05:40
the next patch, they're going to have to nerf it back into the
1:05:42
ground because it's over everything that we could get in
1:05:45
there. And you know what, it's actually
1:05:46
going to be part way through because they're going to allow
1:05:49
it to be oppressive until we're part way through progression.
1:05:53
And then we're going to have to go find new belts.
1:05:55
If we're lucky, Cersei circlet never got nerfed.
1:05:57
People are still nerfing Cersei circlet.
1:06:00
At 6:58, yeah, they're still wearing it, but it did get
1:06:03
nerfed after the nerf. It's still that good.
1:06:07
OK, I feel better. I thought that I was failing my
1:06:09
team. No, it's not.
1:06:11
You're doing great. I'm still wearing mine and the
1:06:16
only like you need your best at 684 ring and then even then some
1:06:26
classes are still just going to keep rolling with it.
1:06:28
So what's the lesser evil here? You know, I'm just going to say
1:06:36
just don't do them or you better yet just upgrade the ring so I
1:06:41
don't have two slots where I'm just like, this is not something
1:06:45
I want to deal with. It just feels really bad to.
1:06:48
I'm not wearing it anymore but it feels really bad to be.
1:06:52
I was wearing it up until like 2 weeks ago.
1:06:54
Like every other piece is 684 or 681 and your ring is 658.
1:07:00
And it's like, what are we doing here, man?
1:07:03
What are we? I remember a quote from a long
1:07:05
time ago, but we're going to put it in the the bin of quotes that
1:07:07
don't actually mean anything. That said, hey, we want you to
1:07:10
be able to loot an item that's a higher item level and equipment
1:07:12
immediately. Can we apply that at the rings?
1:07:18
OK, so except. For rings.
1:07:19
I feel like. Item level should always be
1:07:22
king, no matter what. If it's a higher item level, it
1:07:25
should be better than something that's lower rings.
1:07:29
No, sorry. I agree that item level should
1:07:31
be a general guide and item level should you should be able
1:07:33
to be like, OK, better item level.
1:07:35
That seems pretty cool. But I do think in certain
1:07:37
circumstances there should be an item where it's like, oh, this
1:07:41
thing is worth so much more of it than its item level.
1:07:44
And that is cool to me, but it has to be in very like niche
1:07:53
circumstances. It shouldn't be for this many
1:07:56
classes for this long. I think that we should do away
1:08:00
with item levels all together and everything should be vibes
1:08:02
based. I mean that used to be but like
1:08:06
I don't want to go back to vanilla or sorry I guess that
1:08:09
was BCA. Screenshot of trinkets for
1:08:12
tanks. OK.
1:08:16
And so while we are watching the that screenshot, we are actually
1:08:20
going to call this a show here. Oh I'll drop it on the discord
1:08:23
too, but the Tome of Lights devotion at item level 645 is
1:08:30
higher than any other trinket in the game right now at 684.
1:08:37
Good tuning. I love this drinking and it's
1:08:41
from dungeons so all my characters have it because the
1:08:44
DNR you only have to have 12 + 12 is done but it's crazy.
1:08:48
It's crazy. Yeah, remove the whitelist on
1:08:52
mastery. Anyways, let's let's call this
1:08:56
an episode here. Until next time guys, may all
1:08:59
your hits be crits.