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Spencer Milus : The Power of Mentorship & Giving Back · Beyond the Break

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beyond the Break, a podcast where we dive deep into the stories behind today's entrepreneurs, leaders, and change makers, and we uncover what it takes to build something that lasts.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Beyond the Break.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Spencer Miles, welcome to Beyond the Break.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you ready for this?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do this.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Spencer's got a great background.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's a registered nurse.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's in the sales world working with a lot of Taft Hartley folks.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're a horse owner, and you work with people with special needs in that arena as well, right?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're going to get into dig into each one of those things, and you're an entrepreneur, you've recreated your career many times as well.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're also a mother.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Correct?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we've got a lot to cover today, so I can't wait to get into it.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome, let's do it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So when I hit on all those points, when you look back at your life and career, what is the one thing that you think shaped you to be where you are today?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think the biggest thing that shaped me where I am today had a lot to do with family.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a first generation college grad, and so my dad was always big on, and my mother, like you're gonna go to school, you can be anything you wanna be.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they always like tried to make me feel like I could do anything in the whole wide world.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just having that type of support was fantastic.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's funny is I grew up never realizing we were poor.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So at all.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when I went to college and I would go to another friend's house, I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't know people lived in like two-story houses.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were in a little ranch, little farm.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think that was so much fun just to see the world kind of open, but also have parents that were just like, you can do anything you want if you put your mind to it.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: There, there are no barriers if you don't let them be barriers.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's so true.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: And not even being aware of where you were socioeconomically as well.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you mentioned when you were applying, you even had help applying for college, right?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you, my father was part of the music um union out of Indianapolis, Indiana.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the women in that office, you know, they knew I wanted to go to school and I had to fill out my applications.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: My parents didn't know how to do it.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they helped me do it as well as I had really, really good teachers and health occupation students of America, and they helped me fill out the paperwork as well.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually got a small little scholarship from that union.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: $500, but it absolutely helped me along the way.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to be the first generation college strip grad in my family.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's I and I think the union world is such a tight-knit community.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: They do help a lot with scholarships for people going to college as well.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that that'll dovetail into your career now as well, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because tell us a little bit about what you're doing professionally.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So who would have thought when I graduated nursing school in 1997 that I would find myself working with unions, right?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make that kind of parallel?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was an ICU nurse for six years.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked nights, weekends, holidays.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was really hard.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you saw pictures of me then, I looked way older than what I look like now.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a hard life.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's so hard.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's very rewarding.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some of my best memories, you know, in my professional career are in nursing.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but all my friends were jumping ship to go do utilization management and case management for Anthem Blue Cross at the time I lived in Indianapolis.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided, well, sign me up.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can have a Monday through Friday job.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and started entry level at Anthem in 2002.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Within six months, I became manager of the call center that I was in charge of.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I did operations for a couple of years.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was literally in the cafeteria of the corporate office of Elevance or Anthem Blue Crossbow Shield.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Who are these people all dressed up and they get preferred parking and they go to lunch every day?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Oh, they're salespeople.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, what do they sell?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: A huge network and a big discount.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I have 500 nurses up here on the fourth floor.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't we talking about that?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally think my boss, just to get me to shut up, because I asked so many questions, I was so curious about the business side of the world.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that he's like, if you can convince the plan presidents they need a nurse to help sell, I'll fund it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Within two weeks, I did a campaign trail.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I met with every plan president, convinced them they needed nurses like me to help them sell.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to set up that team.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I left Anthem of the Cross with Shield at the end of 2024, I was in charge of the whole health advocacy strategy and sales.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a giant sales team, account management.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: We upsold clinical programs to Taft Hartley, also commercial business, and it was great.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I really needed to travel less.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was traveling 90% of the time and had a huge job.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I made the change.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so thankful to be in my dream job now, working back with the population that I love, which is Taft Hartley, Labor and Trust, and then the unions.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my well, think of it back to when you made the, you know, you made a case for something that didn't exist, right?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where in America we have these opportunities where if you have a good idea and can convince someone to fund it in some way or to get funding on your own, you created a whole nother path for yourself and for others.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, it's that's the beyond the break story right there.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, it is.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have one of the girls that I hired uh for clinical sales, still is in that job.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's doing a fantastic job.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she lives in Jacksonville.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like she's like, I love that that the health plan has a job like this.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she's a nurse as well and does fantastic selling.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think your RN background helped you in those jobs or even in your current job as well?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is a different specialty.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Completely different specialty.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you're working with clinical programs at a big health plan, having that credibility that you are a clinician and that you understand physiologically and emotionally what's happening with a patient or a member with a diagnosis that absolutely helps.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I think it's an additional credibility in the space that I'm in now, which is around fitness and being proactive with your health, um, to say, like, look, I it's not easy to find time to exercise.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy to find time to take care of yourself, but it's vitally important.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't do it, it's a huge impact on your life and your family.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: But from a fund perspective, it's a huge impact on two of the big financial risks they have when it comes to member health.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one is what's the health and welfare cost going to be from a medical standpoint?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's your risk when it comes to like occupational health and workers' comp.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you're talking about a health trust perspective, right?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if they can find ways to keep their members and their family members healthy and active, that really helps them long term from a personal and professional perspective.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because it keeps the costs lower.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Keeps the costs lower.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: And people alive longer.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's twofold, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's financial and it's also uh there's a human element to it as well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's really interesting.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then now you're in this space back working with the Taft Hartley world.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, what how do you approach your day?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what are you covering?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, who who's who are the buyers?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us about that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my buyers are, you know, those that are trustees for health and welfare um funds that are out there, multi-employer funds.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so really the company I work for now is historically only sold to health plans.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so they owe the were bought by a private equity firm.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: The private equity firm said, look, you've got a great product.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be promoting this out to public sector as well as to labor and trusts.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so they hired me to kind of launch this new sector.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we all know in the union world, you have to be seen, you've got to build that trust and rapport, sure, and you've got to be consistent on where you're showing up.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's the old playbook that I did 10 years ago at Anthem when I led labor and trust sales for them.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm excited to see my friends I haven't seen in years.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've really kept a lot of my bridges very strong, even though I was focused mostly on commercial over the last 10 years.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my I would love I love sharing that like my brothers are accept are very happy that I'm back.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're excited.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's and and within the uh Taft Totley world, are there certain trades that you're specializing in, or you know, how does it work at this?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, any trade is a trade that I will be, you know, obviously going after and looking at.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have lots of friends in the UCW world, so um definitely love that.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: IBW is also a huge one, but quite honestly, anyone that's investing in their members and the the health of their members and their families are the ones that I need to be talking to.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're working with both labor and management on this decision process.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh that's great.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then otherwise, what what kind of contracts are they buying?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Are these one year, these multi-year?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: What do you, you know, what type of thing is?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's up to them.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's really up to them.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes people like to test drive something for a little bit.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you just want to do a one year, you know, you can be flexible, but typically we see three to five years in in what we offer.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's important because the healthcare costs for these the union multi-employer world is very high, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it's important for the membership.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: But talk about like how much of a hourly wage goes towards this.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like mathematically?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is actually a voluntary benefit.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that the unions can offer to their members and the family members to say, hey, it's an added benefit, it's an option for you.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, you think about AFLAC, you can buy a little extra stuff through AFLAC.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of that same scenario.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And they're getting the group buying power though.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're getting the group buying power, right?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also getting creative with my teams to figure out is there a way for us to revenue share that then gets back to take that revenue share back in to reinvest in those members that are actually utilizing the services, make it a little cheaper for them almost as an incentive to keep them engaged and wanting to stay fit and stay active and be healthy.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and what what's a typical, let's call it a sales cycle?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like what what what's a fat, what's a quick close?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm in this world as well.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm I'm curious and what you're seeing out there.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, from a typical health plan perspective, you don't I don't have to wait for like a renewal or someone to go out to bed or anything like that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very nice.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: What I sell is something that can be turnkey, turned on within 90 days at any point in the year.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So no one needs to be fi, you're not even you don't have to even replace another vendor that that failed.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's nice, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're not waiting for someone to stumble and then you step in.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Quite honestly, this is a space that I do not believe my competitors have been really trying to penetrate at all.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: They've been focused on the commercial side, and I'm here to say, no, members of unions and their families absolutely matter.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they should have the same type of options that commercial you know health plans are offering as well.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really exciting to launch in this new segment for them.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then so you mentioned a few times talking about uh health and fitness as well.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So let's explore that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: What it what are you what is being taught, what's being utilized.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So this company, Tibby Health, um, is actually the ones that invented uh silver sneakers.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've all heard of silver sneakers, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the the golden brand name for 65 and over with Medicare Advantage.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: We have sold silver sneakers to 75 plus health plans.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: What we've done is taken a version of Silver Sneakers and made it to a product that we can actually sell direct to funds, um, direct to uh employer groups as well.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what this product is is it's you get access to you know 13,000 gyms across the United States, you get reciprocity, so you could hit six gyms in the same city the same week for the same low cost.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you can sign your family's members up.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the digital content where you get like coaching and yoga and all the type of things is free.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So the education is part of it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: The educational stuff is part of it as well.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we can keep a member engaged, whether he's you know running lines on PowerPoles in another state and doesn't have access to his usual gym there, then he can find one that's close or do the digital content, but also something that can be offered to family members.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm also working with them.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is not available just yet, but we actually have an integrative health model where when we're looking at folks that are experiencing, let's say, joint pain or back pain, which all of us get, all of us that do um hard labor.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have a farm, so I can say I do hard labor.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then get into it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what's great about that is that we have a huge network of chiropractic, acupuncture, integrative medicine, holistic, things that aren't using pharmacy or injections as a way to try things first before to see if you need to actually have that surgery, have that injection.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so really looking at alternative medicine and how that can impact your overall fitness health as well.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because that I I love that point because there's there's so much out there about just I just want to fix my pain.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in in the labor world, there is pain caused by physical work, but then there's a lot that's dietary induced for most people, and it's it's fixable.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's fixable with some simple adjustments, but um, without the education, without the knowledge and realizing what's in our food system, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: People are doomed.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have to feel bad at 50.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's become this thinking that, oh, you just feel achy at 50, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's not the word.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just turned 50 and I feel the best that I've ever been in my entire life.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been an athlete my whole life too.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I'm hitting my stride as I've just turned 50.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think's made a difference?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you look at your diet or exercise, what what's helped you feel better now than even more.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Small changes.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Small changes make a big deal.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um, my diet hasn't changed crazy, but I've just chosen to choose more protein over others, but really have a nice balance.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm still eating pasta, which I freaking love.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still eating all those things, but I'm adding more vegetables, more fruit, and definitely more protein, and then switched up my fitness to where instead of it's more cardio and running, I'm now lifting and lifting heavy.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that has just helped me, not only from a physical perspective, but also emotional.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's tons of endorphins that get released when you'd lift heavy, especially in women, that really help calm the mind and help you like just really help you be better grounded.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because uh we've had a lot of uh fitness guests on in the last few months.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And Marie Merritt was in here last week and just talking about that same exact thing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And she works with men and women, but generally I'm starting to see women come around to the idea of weightlifting.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's just as important for both sides of the world.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: But the weightlifting helps and it helps me get out of this chair, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have to stand up with our legs.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that's an interesting evolution.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is that woven into the program that you you offer to your clients?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that absolutely is woven in, just to make sure that people understand what options are out there, what's age appropriate, what could help you with things, whether it's you've got low back pain, maybe it's a woman going through menopause, it's a gentleman who just feels like I don't feel like myself anymore, and just how I can help you overall.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, there's simple things like just even if you don't have time to go to the gym doing push-ups in the morning or at night, or even at your desk, do 15 air squats because we could sit idle for four hours straight, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the reality is, and when you're at your desk, especially if you have video calls, you may not actually twitch a muscle for an hour.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: But uh it's funny I tell the people in our office here, if you ever see me, I'm going to be doing air squats because I but that makes a difference, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: It triggers certain endorphins.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're it's not like you're max lifting, but you're doing something.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it activates your core and your legs and just gets your mind going again.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love that the the fitness without the pill is is something you and your firm are talking about because that's so important.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're over-medicated and we're masking a lot of problems that are fixable.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's funny, a friend of mine was talking about how bad his back is, meanwhile, he you got a big belly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So uh you take care of the front and the back might feel great better.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right, might feel a little better, for sure.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So now pivoting into fitness, um, there is a horse world that you're also very involved in.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us about that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I am.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have been riding horses my entire life.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I got lucky enough that when I had my children, that they got into my hobby.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to go all in on my hobby.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we have eight horses we have shown across the United States the furthest west I have been showing my horses and traveling with them is Nepa, Idaho, the furthest east I've been in New York City, been to Chicago, Ohio, Dallas, all over.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what other sport can you do with your babies, right?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: That you can go on the road.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're now not babies.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're 17 and 19.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's happening.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: But lots of great memories, but also life lessons.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I've loved about this is my kids have learned number one, there is no participation trophy in horses.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just get it because you showed up.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, the effort you put in from practicing a home actually shows up in the ring.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe the most important lesson is number three is that sometimes shit happens.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse my language.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because someone may have dropped a pop can or another horse spooked and spooked your horse and messed your horse up and you completely got last even though it wasn't your fault.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's life.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's life.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: You've just got to deal with it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what about caring for the horse, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: You don't just show up and three o'clock hop on the horse and practice for an hour.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we are not that type of farm at all.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've never hired a groom, nor would I ever.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so the kids and I, we are all hands-on.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: We all each help each other get our horses groomed, saddled up, coach each other, be ready to go in the ring, you know, help lift each other up before we go in.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a little competitive banner.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: My brother, my brother, my son and I um now compete in the same age range.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, I might have beat him last year, and I was really proud of it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't even let off.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even let off for him.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um, horses have been huge.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and I told my kids, I said, look, the horse didn't ask in a silver tube and go 2,000 miles.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're here because they're they believe in you and they trust you.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when you get out of that show ring and you're super sweaty from doing a round of huge jumps or doing a big Western pattern, do not take your jacket and your hat off.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: You take care of that horse first.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as that saddle's off, that their host off, they're back in their stall, comfortable, then you can focus on yourself.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's huge to learn that there's something bigger than you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to take responsibility for something that is really just relying and trusting you on doing everything.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a team.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: It really is a team.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and the fact that the human has to do so much for the horse outside of the moment that you're riding on it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when you use the word showing, what does that mean?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Are you jumping?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Are you running around barrels?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: What's happening?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: All of the above.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So for the most of my kids' lives, we all did hunter jumper and dressage.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what you see in the Olympics, the dressages um where you see the rectangle ring and it looks like the horse and rider is dancing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they do it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Going sideways, sideways, tantering in place.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's called dressage.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we all do that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then hunter jumper is going over the jumps, as you all have seen.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So my daughter, however, um, we uh went to the adult championships, and my kids were tired of showing at the youth national championships.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, Well, let's just go to the adult ones.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, it's gonna be harder.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2021, my daughter at the age of 13 goes in this class with me and a bunch of my family members.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's 50 some of us in this class.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: She ends up winning the national championship.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: She beats all of us.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: She comes out of the ring with these roses around the horse's neck, and she goes, Well, mastered that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Want to try something new.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh, that's what are we trying?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Oh no, please say it's not competitive cheer.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not that there's that we did that when she was younger.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, I want to get into Western, I want to do raining and roping.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and my mouth dropped because my entire barn's full of hunter jumpers that do not.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: These are specific courses, very specific horses.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, now my barn's a barn divided.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I have like half Western horses, half English.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the lesson learned here was my daughter was brave enough to try to suck at something new, but to try it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And two years it sucked.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like we sucked wind, we were not very good.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because she went from winning something.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: She went from winning something to from scratch, doing something brand new.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't even have the horse yet built for it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So she kind of stole my dressage horse.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not at all upset about it for a while.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just kidding.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she stole my horse for a little while to do it until we bred got her her horse.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it has been an amazing journey to watch her grow and go through it.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: But what's also funny is that she's staying with that zombie?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's totally doing it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the stuff you see on Yellowstone, where they like do the sliding stops and the spins and all the things, she's doing that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she's roping cattle.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she's doing great at it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: What is that horse called?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of horse is that?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: That would be more like a Western horse.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So typically, typically it'd be like a quarter horse, an Appaloosa.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can do, you know, breed.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I typically show Arabian, so I will definitely be taking her prized Appaloosa mare and breeding it to an Arabian when she goes off to college, so that I can have an half-era but to go ride in all the shows with my family because they all show Arabians.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you still, I think the vet is a big part of this world too, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: That seems to be the money winner in all of this.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: The veterinarian and I are best friends.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what's funny is her husband, she's here locally.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, her husband is uh orthodontist, and so what I didn't realize when my kids were getting braces that she was at my house.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, Oh, my husband met your kids today.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I should have my vet bill for free.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I got two embraces right now.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So what normally what are ailments for horses typically?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: What pops up?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Musculoskeletal is big, they might like pull a tendon, um, you know, that type of thing, have some joint pain.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest thing though is colic.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So horses can't throw up.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's they physically don't have the ability to.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when they don't feel well, they actually roll.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when they roll, their bellies, if you think the big barrel of a horse belly is so big, their intestines from rolling to try to make themselves feel better actually can twist and can be.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've heard of that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like a twisted stomach.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I, as a nurse, I can, you know, do as much as I can without calling the vet.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But uh sometimes you you definitely need a vet.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, one of the sad things, one of my prize show horses, I won nationals three times on this horse, and all of a sudden he came up lame.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I have taken him to UF, I've taken him to other places, no one can figure it out, and so now.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's just a glorified retired horse that teaches little.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he's got little kids now and he's loving his new job.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like he just does the little kids now.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you low key just snuck in three championships.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: So let's hear about that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big deal.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we grew up poor in Indiana, southern Indiana, where I grew up.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had horses.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if I wanted to go to like the local county fair, it was my big one horse show for the whole year.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't have horse trailers.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I would have to beg for rides from people to go to that one show a year.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if I had friends that were getting riding lessons, I'd be like, Can I go and just listen?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So here I am as the, I was like the crazy girl in the in the, you know, the um at school during recess that would canter around.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was that girl, you know, in first and second grade.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I would go to these lessons when my friends were getting them and I would literally just sit and listen and try to take in as much as I could.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't afford to do it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things, you know, doing that, you know, growing up through that, I'm very thankful that I now had the ability to give my kids this opportunity.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And to be quite honest, both my kids won their national championships before I ever had a chance to win mine.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So just because I honestly didn't come into my own of being able to afford that stuff.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So now between the the all of us, so my kids and I, we have uh between national championships and reserve national, which is like second place.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say we have 12 combined.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, if you ever come down to my farm, I will host a hopey happy hour in my barn bar.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have a bar there.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to see that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's exciting.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Then um, you also mentioned you you help others with the horses in therapy.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's hear about that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, let me tell you, this is my end game.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to do.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So right now I have a beautiful crop of horses, and they're my show horses.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when you take them to multiple places, they become boundproof, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like a car going by, a golf cart going by, a bunch of crowds being around.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: They get to where they get used to it, right?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so one of the things I'm also a therapeutic writing instructor, and I do volunteer my time.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked with Warrior Path, so that's P-A-T-H-H, in Central Florida, where they have a week long, they take PTSD veterans that come in, and there's one day of that one week where you actually do equine interaction.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I have seen grown six foot five, 300-pound men ball after an interaction with a horse.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just amazing to see like the walls come down.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Horses are the mirror to your soul.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is no hiding if you're having a good day or bad day because they will feel it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: They can actually hear, they sense your heartbeat from six feet away, and they sense your stress level as well.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's been very rewarding to do that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, before I moved down here to Florida, I had a bunch of family members and friends up there that had kids that with um either mild or severe autism.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I would have them come out to the horses as well.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So my end game, um, God willing, is in 10 years I want to retire and I want to do therapeutic writing.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm on the board for Big Brothers, Big Sisters right now.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's true here in Jacksonville because I wanted to learn what our community needs, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are the needs of the junior high, the high school kids?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some of the kids that kind of get, you know, lost in the system.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I'm thinking through in my head is I would love to build like a leadership or a self-respect type of program where these kids, inner city kids, can earn the right to be able to come down to the farm and go through a program like this and then you know, come back and actually apprentice, maybe, and those type of things.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I want to do.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's my young game.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my, I'm connecting so many of our past guests right now that I'm gonna put you in touch with like Tony from Potential.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: They they're using soccer to motivate inner city kids to read and write.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've had Amy Pope, who's uh in the clinical world, and she's helps with therapy with people, and she's a horse person too, so I'm gonna connect you with her as well.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: But there's so many ways that people like yourself who want to help others with the gifts and the skills that you have and developed over time.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: It I love that you've you have that and you're not just keeping it for yourself.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about the 12 trophies in your barn.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's about now how are you gonna help others?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So keep up the good work there.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna connect you with a lot of different people that we can put this all together.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, as we start to wrap up, you you mentioned a lot of times creating uh new paths for yourself, overcoming adversity and now helping others, you know.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else you want to highlight that were challenges or injuries that that you've come across in the past that you look back and say, wow, I can't believe I got through that?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there's one thing that I would just like to say growing up where I didn't quite realize that we were poor, right?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then getting into a world where I definitely figured out, oh, there's a lot of half-nots and there's a lot of haves.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best life lessons my father taught me, and he learned it from his mother.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So his mother was a single mom in New York City and raised two boys, who does that, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the 40s and 50s.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, and was very successful at it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dad was, I don't know how he didn't die.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh one of the things my dad said is because I would be like, Well, I don't have the right shoes or I don't have the right outfit.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You can't buy class, you are class.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and it took me probably till my mid-30s for me to truly understand what that meant, right?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what label you have on, it's how you conduct yourself, how you carry yourself, and how you make other people feel.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think that's important.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is, is no one gets through this life without having some type of struggle.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's gonna struggle, whether it's something personally, something that's professionally, something they can't understand.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I am a firm believer that, you know, life is hard enough on its own.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: We all need to be there for each other.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And to be very honest, I went through a very tough time.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this was a couple of years ago, uh, in the corporate world, um, where there were some scary moments of I was trying to go to another employer and this corporation was trying to block me from a legal perspective.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm a single, I'm the breadwinner for my entire family.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna do this?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was scared to death.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't selling to the union world at that time, right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I kept all my connections.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my Georgia network from USCW 1996 to the AFL CIO president were like, we're here to help you.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do to help?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Look at that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And who does that?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when they found out that I was struggling, they were the first ones to call and said, How, how can we help?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's what's so great about our Taft Hartley world as well, is they they're built to take care of their membership, and then even um the the vendors that they interact with.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a wonderful relationship.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm glad you got through that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're obviously mentally very strong, physically very strong, and that's what, and now you're helping others, so uh it's a great story.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: So look forward to having a phase two interview with you as you develop your your future goal as well.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: But thanks for coming in the studio today.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Chris.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to be on the break.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation brought you value, make sure to like, subscribe, and hit the bell so you never miss an episode.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: We've got more real stories, sharp insights, and powerful turning points coming your way.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.