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Chad Bunny And 'Berger Queen · Politix

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: They are literally not trying.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think like Democrats look themselves in the mirror and say,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: after the 2024 defeat,
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  we have done literally nothing to attempt to rehabilitate the
• 0:10
  image of this
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: political party.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's too much of a machine-like party.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Democrats just need to subscribe to this podcast,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: listen to the second half of the episode,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: and just try everything that we suggested,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: including- Get some tattoos.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:28
  Hey everyone,
• 0:29
  you're listening to a free preview of the Politics Podcast.
• 0:32
  This week we'll do a quick Super Bowl recap and overview of
• 0:35
  Donald Trump losing his
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: grip on the broader culture.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we're mostly going to talk about the early days of the Spanberger
• 0:42
  administration in Virginia and whether it's a good model for
• 0:45
  Democrats both now and
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: in the post-Trump future we're all waiting for.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And finally,
• 0:51
  we'll take a look at what can be done in Virginia and other
• 0:54
  states and nationally
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: to make Trump less popular ahead of the midterm elections.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to hear the whole conversation,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: you can upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, everyone.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Brian Boyler.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Matthew Iglesias.
• 1:12
  So we're going to talk about some pretty good news coming out
• 1:15
  of Virginia in the
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  SPEAKER_01: first couple of weeks of the new Democratic trifecta there.
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  SPEAKER_01: But can we do a minute on on Bad Bunny,
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  the Super Bowl halftime show and how the right wing lost its
• 1:26
  grip on the culture?
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  SPEAKER_02: It was the single greatest show of all time.
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  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, you know, it's interesting.
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  SPEAKER_02: We had,
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  SPEAKER_02: after Donald Trump won in 2024,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: or around when he won,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: there was a much ballyhooed vibe shift.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was notable that...
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Trump did a lot better with young voters,
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  and there was a sense that there was more cultural cachet in
• 1:54
  Donald Trump and the
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  SPEAKER_02: Trump movement,
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  SPEAKER_02: that,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: athletes who favored Donald Trump were becoming vocally pro-Trump,
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  SPEAKER_02: other things like that,
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  SPEAKER_02: that the right wing was cool now.
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  SPEAKER_02: And we had in the Super Bowl—
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  SPEAKER_02: A,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: politically provocative selection of Bad Bunny,
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  SPEAKER_02: who is a popular musical artist,
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  SPEAKER_02: but had also been quite outspoken about ICE and other things,
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  SPEAKER_02: to do a halftime show.
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  SPEAKER_02: Conservatives chose to throw a big fit about this.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, they could have played it cool.
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  SPEAKER_02: But like Trump and TPUSA, you know, they didn't just like...
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  SPEAKER_02: People whine about stuff in politics all the time,
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  SPEAKER_02: but they,
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  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: actually staged a kid rock alternative conservative halftime show.
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  SPEAKER_02: Trump, like, really tried to get people to watch it.
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  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I think most people watch the normal Super Bowl show.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was widely enjoyed.
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  SPEAKER_02: He was singing in Spanish.
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  I do not know exactly what the lyrics were,
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  but it appeared that he was making some reference.
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  SPEAKER_00: Lo sabes?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  sorry state of the Puerto Rican electrical grid,
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  which is an important issue,
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  in fact.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they also,
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  I also thought it was notable that Green Day played before the
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  Super Bowl in a much
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  SPEAKER_02: lower profile gig,
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  SPEAKER_02: but sort of from the opposite end of the age and demographic spectrum,
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  SPEAKER_02: a little closer to my wheelhouse personally,
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  SPEAKER_02: but also known to be a very political,
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  SPEAKER_02: very vocally anti-Trump
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  SPEAKER_02: band.
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  SPEAKER_02: They did not do their no Trump,
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  SPEAKER_02: no KKK,
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  SPEAKER_02: no fascist USA chant during the show,
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  SPEAKER_02: but they were playing exclusively songs from the American Idiot album.
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  SPEAKER_02: Which like holds up really well because Trump happened to get elected.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not their finest work by any stretch of the imagination,
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  but if we just get authoritarian-minded Republicans in power
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  every 20 years or so,
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  SPEAKER_01: it'll have a...
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  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was noteworthy.
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  SPEAKER_02: They didn't play their newest songs,
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  and they also didn't play their most classic songs from back in
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  the early 90s.
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  They played their most the incumbent Republican Party president
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  sucks songs.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I want to talk about how...
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  SPEAKER_01: Like why we call this like a vibe situation,
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  because it really does kind of require you to inhabit some kind
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  of media space and
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  SPEAKER_01: then sense what's happening.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you can clearly sense what's happening now,
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  both in the microcosm of the Super Bowl and the Republican
• 4:32
  Super Bowl alternative.
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  SPEAKER_01: But also like in the Melania movie and like Jeff Bezos funding that,
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  SPEAKER_01: thinking that he was making like a really good bet on Trump.
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  But now he's like caught shoveling money into her purse and
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  crushing the Washington
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  SPEAKER_01: Post at Donald Trump's best.
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  SPEAKER_01: At the very moment that Trump's at his political weakest,
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  SPEAKER_01: like he's on the retreat as Republicans are.
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  SPEAKER_01: Demand he like take down a racist tweet he posted about Barack Obama.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's the the the killings of Alex Peretti and Renee Good.
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  Like that's the backdrop for how a lot of like a lot of people
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  like this was the
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  moment where I think that they thought they were going to have
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  the great payoff of
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  SPEAKER_01: like signing up with MAGA.
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  SPEAKER_01: And instead, it's not worked out that way.
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  SPEAKER_01: If you go back like a year ago.
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  SPEAKER_01: it felt like the opposite was true that like the,
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  the places where Democrats had drawn a lot of cultural capital
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  was like Hollywood,
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  SPEAKER_01: the movie industry,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: like corporate pop,
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  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
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  SPEAKER_01: for lack of a better term.
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  SPEAKER_01: And all that seemed like it was on the way out, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like,
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  like kind of over being replaced by like a much greater number
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  of influencers who
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  SPEAKER_01: were in some sense,
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  SPEAKER_01: they're like small business people.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so they're much less, I think, progressive as a community.
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  SPEAKER_01: And Trump was winning that set.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so he had the future, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: And Democrats were stuck with these cultural artifacts of the past.
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  But from the vantage point of today,
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  I'm not confident that that assessment was right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like,
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  The vibe shift that we were picking up on after Trump won the
• 6:17
  election or around
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  the election may have just been like mostly an artifact of like
• 6:21
  Elon Musk fucking
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: with the Twitter algorithm.
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  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so there's cycles within cycles, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: There's lots of different things happening.
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  One thing that just happens in politics is people win and lose
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  elections,
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  right,
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  based on votes.
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  And we know that the total age distribution of the American
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  population is pretty
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  SPEAKER_02: old at this point.
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  SPEAKER_02: It is getting older with every year.
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  SPEAKER_02: And also that the electorate is older than the population, right?
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  And some of that is because senior citizens voted a higher rate
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  than young people.
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  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it is also just that,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: a like teenagers can't vote,
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  SPEAKER_02: but like they absolutely can and do like buy music and go to movies.
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  And actually,
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  like the opinions of 16 year olds have a lot of influence on
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  like the culture.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, like, who matters and what's cool.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they have literally no influence on politics, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: And, like, 19-year-olds, you know, have diminished political influence.
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  SPEAKER_02: But, again, a lot of sort of cultural clout.
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  And so you can have a situation like we had when George W.
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  Bush was president where—
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  SPEAKER_02: He won the election.
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  SPEAKER_02: He won the 2000 election in a somewhat shady manner,
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  SPEAKER_02: but he won the 2004 election,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: fair and square,
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  SPEAKER_02: solid majority.
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  SPEAKER_02: He did really well in the 2002 midterms.
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  SPEAKER_02: He also had the business community really solidly behind him.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like,
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  people who work in democratic politics today but weren't around
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  in the aughts,
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  SPEAKER_02: I think,
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  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: can't imagine the spending disadvantage that,
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  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: every Democrat was,
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  SPEAKER_02: like every Democratic challenger in the 2006 midterms was outspent by the
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  SPEAKER_02: Republican incumbent.
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  SPEAKER_02: And Kerry was just buried in money in 2004.
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  And the media,
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  you know,
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  conservatives had their critiques of the liberal media back
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  then.
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  But the establishment was very deferential to the national
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  security agencies that
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  SPEAKER_02: were under Bush's control,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: things like that.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like he was really like a solidly had command of America.
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  SPEAKER_02: But he was also always uncool.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
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  SPEAKER_02: Like there was a big age gradient in the voting patterns.
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  And you could tell that like a lot of his best issues were
• 8:44
  things like opposition
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  SPEAKER_02: to gay marriage,
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  SPEAKER_02: where again,
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  SPEAKER_02: you could see like that was a big winning issue for him because it was
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  SPEAKER_02: overwhelmingly unpopular with senior citizens.
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  But like young people,
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  like people our age at that time were already there on the
• 8:59
  liberal side.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so you could just look at it and you could be like,
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  SPEAKER_02: This guy is a very significant political presence.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, he's won a trifecta in his reelection.
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  SPEAKER_02: He's got all the money on his side.
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  SPEAKER_02: He's got a lot of corporate influence on his side.
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  SPEAKER_02: But he's not cool.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is not the future of America.
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  SPEAKER_02: And that's the context in which the American Idiot album comes out.
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  SPEAKER_02: Michael Moore is winning Oscars at that time.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, like people in the culture of
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Culturally influential people were like, this guy's bad.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: This guy sucks.
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  SPEAKER_02: And he was uncool.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: But he was really there.
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  SPEAKER_02: Then when Trump was president the first time,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: you had a different alignment,
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  SPEAKER_02: which was like he had won.
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  on the backs of older voters and on the backs of very
• 9:47
  unfashionable people,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: in the rural Midwest who had swung in his direction.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: But not only were like youth and cultural influencers anti-Trump,
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  SPEAKER_02: but at that time,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: it really seemed like
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: The younger tech entrepreneurs,
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  SPEAKER_02: people like Mark Zuckerberg,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: really wanted to be identified as sort of anti-Trump.
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  Jeff Bezos,
• 10:13
  older at that time,
• 10:14
  but like he was running the Washington Post.
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  SPEAKER_02: They adopted their democracy dies in darkness slogan.
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  The old regime at Twitter was very amenable to like progressive
• 10:26
  ideas about conflict.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: content moderation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: So was Facebook at that time.
• 10:30
  Google had a lot of Obama administration people had sort of
• 10:34
  revolving door into it.
• 10:35
  And so there was a sense that like both the cultural vibes were
• 10:41
  against Trump and
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: also like in some sense,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: like the establishment was really against Trump.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now in Trump's second term, I think we have
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: you know, a re-realignment of the culture, right?
• 10:55
  That like,
• 10:56
  that sort of like vibe shift towards Trump has proven to be
• 10:59
  very ephemeral.
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  SPEAKER_02: His youth support has evaporated.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of his sort of like
• 11:06
  You know,
• 11:06
  Joe Rogan has talked about how like he doesn't like what ICE is
• 11:10
  doing.
• 11:11
  Jake and Logan Paul got into an argument with each other about
• 11:14
  Bad Bunny because
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: being anti-Bad Bunny was like the uncool sort of stance.
• 11:21
  But Trump has brought big business basically back to its
• 11:25
  natural home,
• 11:28
  which is that like
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Jeff Bezos is a wealthy businessman.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: When Joe Biden was president,
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: the regulatory environment was,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: not actually that friendly to Amazon.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Democrats like to raise taxes and...
• 11:47
  Just like which businessman sort of miscalculated that Donald
• 11:53
  Trump was going to
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: create an enduring dictatorship that they would all benefit from.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: But also,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like they're comfortable,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: they're increasingly comfortable just acting like CEOs who
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: have mostly acted throughout American history.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was super with you until just this last point here,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: because like,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: as I mean,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 12:12
  it's maybe like a narrow distinction and it's not like the Bush
• 12:15
  arrangement with
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: corporate America was totally on the up and up.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: like we could talk about the K street project someday,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: there were,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: there was,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: there was like,
• 12:24
  there was a level of corruption there that at the time felt
• 12:27
  extraordinary,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're since Watergate or whatever.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: it was not a shakedown situation with like,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: bags of cash with dollar bills,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: like emblazoned on the side of them or anything like that,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: the way it is now.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, and I think that like,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere in Jeff Bezos' dark heart,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: he must realize that he made a bad bet at some point during the Biden
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: administration,
• 12:56
  that whatever annoyed him about Biden or the progressive left
• 12:59
  or whatever else,
• 13:01
  that he would be richer today simply because Kamala Harris is
• 13:04
  not an unstable
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: person if she'd won the election and just governed with a steadier hand,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: even though he can go to Trump and be like,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can –
• 13:15
  like slice the Washington post throat and you can award me a
• 13:19
  $10 billion blue
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: origin contract,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the gamble he's left to make,
• 13:25
  but it's probably a worse outcome than if he had just kept an
• 13:30
  even keel and
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: remained the democracy dies in darkness guy.
• 13:34
  And,
• 13:35
  and,
• 13:35
  you know,
• 13:36
  in a context like that,
• 13:37
  maybe Kamala Harris can go on to win.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, like, I don't know that the,
• 13:43
  business community is rock solid behind Trump in as much as
• 13:49
  they are a bit trapped
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: in there with him and maybe even looking for ways to get out.
• 13:59
  It's dangerous because he will abuse his power to hurt them if
• 14:02
  they do it too
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: overtly,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: but that they don't think that
• 14:09
  As much as they're happy for regulatory forbearance or whatever
• 14:13
  with this thing
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: where they have to bribe him,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: where they have to damage their brands,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: where they have to pay more for imported goods.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the good old days of George W. Bush circa 2003.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely agree on that level,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: but I mean,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: it's just it's also not,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: from a business standpoint,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: the good old days of Barack Obama circa 2013,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: there's a question of people who are annoyed,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: but there's also just a question of,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Democrats under Biden in a low-key but,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: high visibility to the tech industry way—
• 14:56
  were really pushing ideas that were bad for the biggest
• 14:59
  companies in America.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: And post-Biden, as Democrats are increasingly...
• 15:08
  speaking,
• 15:09
  you know,
• 15:10
  Biden was not a forceful presence as an individual,
• 15:13
  right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Which is what I think the culture,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: like how Democrats lost the culture is that Biden was super uncool.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that is part of it, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: in terms of these other dynamics,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: you could have had a read that was like,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: while Sleepy Joe was napping in the West Wing,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Lena Kahn was running amok,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: but like other Democrats will come out of the woodwork and be like,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: no, no, no, that was bad.
• 15:39
  But like,
• 15:39
  that's quite clearly not what Democrats have been saying since
• 15:42
  the election.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: as more people are speaking more forcefully with their own voices,
• 15:49
  you're seeing more and more and more that like Democrats are
• 15:54
  like really just like
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: more left wing on economic issues than they used to be.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And one can make of that, you know, what one will, but I think it's,
• 16:09
  To be expected that if you say like we're against billionaires
• 16:13
  as a class and want
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: to purge them and break up their companies and so on and so forth,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: they're going to go be Republicans.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And unlike other stuff that Democrats do that I think is like really,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: really bad and stupid,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm open to this,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: like the historic role of a center left political party.
• 16:32
  is to be badly outspent in campaigns and elections and to have
• 16:35
  the bulk of
• 16:37
  businesses and CEOs talking about how you will destroy the
• 16:40
  economy and expressing
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: no gratitude for anything useful that you do.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 16:46
  that's fine if you're willing to sort of make your bed with it
• 16:50
  and align your
• 16:50
  cultural politics accordingly and make economic policy ideas
• 16:54
  that are good.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I think it...
• 17:02
  I just think it shows that like we're going to have an enduring
• 17:06
  – I don't even want
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: to call it realignment,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: but just like normal alignment.
• 17:10
  That like the leaders of the 10 biggest companies in America
• 17:15
  will largely prefer
• 17:16
  Republicans and will do what they can to put their thumb on the
• 17:20
  scale in favor of
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It still feels different to me because like –
• 17:24
  Yeah,
• 17:25
  there are Democrats who use anti-billionaire rhetoric,
• 17:29
  and I think it's fine.
• 17:31
  There are still several billionaires who align with the
• 17:33
  Democratic Party and
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: realize that this isn't some sort of like...
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: major ego bruise that they can live with.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: But it was with Warren's trying to get rid of them.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's her, that's her whole thing.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: But like get rid of them or like charge them a little bit more in taxes.
• 17:47
  Like there are,
• 17:48
  there are billionaires who are okay with that arrangement.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are billionaires who are not.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't know what's happened in the,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: in the whole population of American billionaires,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: but the radicalized in turn seems very concentrated and
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: in the Silicon Valley slash tech slash crypto AI corner of it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not even like Wall Street or whatever, but like there.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but the other... Okay.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what I sense from Democrats is a...
• 18:21
  like,
• 18:21
  radicalized rage against that posse of,
• 18:25
  like,
• 18:26
  Trump-aligned tech billionaires.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:28
  Much more so than,
• 18:29
  like,
• 18:30
  you know,
• 18:34
  broad,
• 18:35
  like,
• 18:35
  class warrior shift across the whole party.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing that I think people need to think about, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Which is that before tech was that big of a deal, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: All...
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, put it a different way.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: As tech started to rise,
• 18:52
  one of the things that was noteworthy about tech is that the
• 18:55
  tech industry was
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: centered in California and Washington State,
• 18:59
  and that the vast majority of its employees were themselves
• 19:03
  relatively high-wage,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: progressively-minded,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: college-educated professionals,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, if you look at, like, the politics of 2010, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:15
  Silicon Valley is probably the most progressive industry in
• 19:20
  America in terms of its
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: executive behaviors,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: As tech has gotten way bigger than it was in 2010,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: those were not,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: right now,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: that all the biggest companies in America are tech companies,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: like everything is tech,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: and the biggest tech leaders have become way more right-wing,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: and Democrats are really mad about that,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: and that's fair enough.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not like Democrats have gotten,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: developed a friendlier relationship with the executives of
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: the biggest retailing and manufacturing companies in America,
• 19:56
  those companies have just always been super duper right way
• 20:00
  because they have tons
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: and tons and tons of like really banal,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: day-to-day,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: picayune,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: labor and environmental regulatory issues that like have always made them
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: conservative.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: you hear sometimes in like things people say,
• 20:17
  like an aspirational sectoral realignment where like Democrats
• 20:22
  are going to try to
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: like pivot the economy away from this like ephemeral,
• 20:27
  like slop economy of cryptocurrency and AI and data centers and
• 20:32
  like stand for,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: for like real stuff.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you're not.
• 20:36
  like seeing America's farmers and ranchers or agribusiness
• 20:40
  concerns or the,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: like the CEO of Home Depot,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think was Mitt Romney's biggest donor.
• 20:47
  He's not Donald Trump's biggest donor,
• 20:49
  but that's not because he's giving less to Trump.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's because Elon Musk is giving more.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so like, it's, it's fine as far as it goes.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: it's a question of like,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: what ultimately is your political coalition supposed to
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Bill Clinton had a very,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: very working class,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: very socioeconomically downscale political coalition that backed him.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he won twice by very large margins.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: He had a very narrow fundraising base that was heavily dependent on,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: movie stars and record company executives and other people,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: narrowly in the cool game.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, he won.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: The way he did that was he was, like...
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: way more moderate on cultural issues than any subsequent Democrats.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's interesting.
• 21:43
  But I do think that the Trump cool factor has proven to be very
• 21:50
  ephemeral in
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that it's not just that Joe Biden was old,
• 21:54
  but it's that the youngest cohort of people are the most
• 21:59
  influenced by super duper
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: duper short term events.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you were like 21 in 2024,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: the only thing that had ever happened in the economy in your lifetime was
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: inflation.
• 22:11
  And those people like said in polls that they were really mad
• 22:14
  about inflation.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And Donald Trump said he was going to make prices be lower.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then he became president.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: He hasn't done that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And he's he's lost the most ground with young voters,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hispanic moderates,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: the the most like inattentive,
• 22:33
  sort of like not that political kind of demographics that had
• 22:37
  swung heavily toward
• 22:39
  him over the inflation issue and where he is like just like
• 22:42
  genuinely done nothing,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:44
  and it's like there's a reason why everyone is now scrambling
• 22:49
  desperately.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: to like reframe whatever they want to do as affordability.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because that like actually does matter to people,
• 22:59
  even though to anyone who cares about like big ideas and like
• 23:03
  the grand stakes of
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: democracy,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: it seems a little...
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: petty to be like so amped up about utility prices.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just think people need to be clear in their head about,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: about two different kinds of antagonism,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: One is that if,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: if Democrats are going to try to do working class politics,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: maybe they need to moderate on cultural issues,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: but they should expect the kind of picayune,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: the home Depot guy donates to Republicans thing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: to be like a consistent feature of politics.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's separate from the question,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: what do you do about the interest groups that you went to bat for,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's the tech industry or like the Teamsters?
• 23:48
  And their response to you bailing out their pensions or bailing
• 23:56
  out Silicon Valley
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bank is to swing to the Republicans.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like in that case, I think that like you do need for like –
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: just basic moral hazard reasons to not say,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 24:11
  our mistake was that we didn't pander hard enough to these
• 24:14
  powerful interest
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: groups.
• 24:15
  You need to like twist the knife when you get back into power
• 24:19
  so that they don't
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: feel like there's only one vindictive party in the United States.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the Republicans.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it's election time,
• 24:27
  do I do the Jeff Bezos move and hedge because you know Kamala
• 24:31
  Harris isn't going to
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: come after me?
• 24:34
  Or do you think I better I better actually be neutral or I
• 24:37
  better support the
• 24:38
  Democrat because we know that they're capable of being
• 24:42
  retributive as well.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree about that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that you mentioned the teamsters in this regard,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: because,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: like I have seen a real asymmetry since the election.
• 24:51
  Like since the election,
• 24:52
  I have seen almost every Democratic Party elected official.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's the ones I hate and there's the ones I like.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they have all done like a harder,
• 25:01
  harder edged anti-tech tilt in their rhetoric because they are
• 25:06
  like butthurt about
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: this.
• 25:09
  The Teamsters,
• 25:10
  it seems to me,
• 25:10
  like,
• 25:11
  fucked the Democratic Party way harder than Tech did.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, you know.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or, like, Elon Musk, David Sachs, these specific motherfuckers.
• 25:23
  Well,
• 25:24
  but,
• 25:24
  like,
• 25:24
  I don't think those guys betrayed Democrats in any meaningful
• 25:30
  way.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: They just lied about them and bought Twitter.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm saying betrayal.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Betrayal.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 25:40
  The position of Donald Trump and the Republican Party forever
• 25:45
  has been that labor
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: unions should not exist.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:49
  And like labor unions have always supported Democrats because
• 25:52
  Democrats support the
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: existence of labor unions.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:55
  Democrats went way out of their way to not just be like,
• 25:59
  we think labor unions should exist.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: We think labor unions are good.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But they were like,
• 26:02
  we think a big chunk of taxpayer dollars should just be
• 26:06
  transferred into the
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Teamsters pension fund.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: After which, not only did the Teamsters not endorse Kamala Harris, but
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't even say,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: in our non-endorsement of Kamala Harris,
• 26:19
  the balance we are striking is that Democrats bailed out our
• 26:23
  pension fund,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: but we agree more with Republicans about some other issues.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: They just like went up on stage and- At the RNC.
• 26:31
  At the RNC and lied about Democrats' policies vis-a-vis the
• 26:37
  Teamsters unions.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 26:39
  And then Democrats have responded to that by being the
• 26:43
  political party that is more
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: hostile to autonomous vehicles.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: in Massachusetts,
• 26:52
  there is a move in the state legislature to ban self-driving
• 26:56
  taxis that is being
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: pushed by the Teamsters Union.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's just Democrats who are for that, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: you look at the maps of,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: where is Waymo existing,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: etc.,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: etc.,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: etc.,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: and it's exclusively...
• 27:09
  like,
• 27:09
  blue states that are giving them problems,
• 27:12
  and it's all on behalf of the Teamsters Union.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you have,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Democrats doing bad policy to help the Teamsters,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: the Teamsters not supporting them,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Trump winning the election,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: and the Democrats just coming back to be like,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: let's do more bad policy on behalf of the Teamsters.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's tactics, whatever.
• 27:30
  I think there's a lot of good questions about how you should
• 27:32
  handle the David
• 27:34
  Sachses and the Elon Musk's of the world when you come back
• 27:37
  into politics.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: office,
• 27:39
  but like the only move Democrats have over the past several
• 27:44
  years is just like go
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: more left wing,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: on everything.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like pander more to the teamsters,
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: but pander less,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: to the tech industry while also being more left wing on energy policy,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: also more left wing,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: on everything,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: time and time again.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, um,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: To me,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: the interesting thing about the Super Bowl is that for all this talk of,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Trump's vindictiveness,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: nothing's happening to NBCUniversal or the National Football League.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet, and maybe not at all.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the— Like, it's fine.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 28:21
  you can just— One of the crazy Republican congressmen is trying
• 28:24
  to sick the FCC on
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: NBC for airing the Bad Bunny concert and—
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: we'll see what happens,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: but there are no actual examples of this like alleged Trump vindictive.
• 28:39
  I don't want to like exonerate Trump against the charges of
• 28:42
  having inappropriate
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: aspirations,
• 28:44
  like when they tried to get Jimmy Kimmel thrown off the air in
• 28:47
  the Charlie Kirk
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: crackdown.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: But like there was intense backlash to that and it didn't work, you know?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like if...
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: whoever, wanted to do whatever.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 29:02
  I think that this continues to be a country with more or less
• 29:05
  the rule of law and
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: electoral democracy.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: if you want to support Trump because you want to support Trump,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: God bless.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: But like,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: you can put Bad Bunny on the Super Bowl and the halftime show and like,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: your business will be fine.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no...
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: The fires of hell have not rained down.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're saying that Trump is more bark than bite,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: but I think that that's...
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that he's more bark than bite.
• 29:32
  It's just like the basic institutional framework of the United
• 29:35
  States of America.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's just still in place.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like, it's a bit of a conjurer's trick.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean, though, is that like...
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: NBC had to make a gamble.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know for certain Trump wasn't going to do something.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: They reasoned that this would pay off, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it would be the better bet.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that they were right about that,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: even if Trump does try some heavy-handed crap with them.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: But his...
• 30:04
  Putting everyone on notice that this is how he operates things
• 30:08
  and that you will
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: lose contracts if you don't do what I say.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: We will find other ways to punish you,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: but we will find ways to reward you if you put money in my pocket.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: The existence of that spoil system inherently warps the calculation of...
• 30:27
  companies they shouldn't have to run the calculation that i
• 30:30
  said that that they ran
• 30:31
  like they shouldn't have to make a gamble they should just know
• 30:34
  right we can we air
• 30:36
  the super bowl we don't even really give a fuck who's doing the
• 30:39
  halftime show and
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: um i just think that that like uh is a
• 30:51
  it's like the corrupt Trump method of trying to sway interest
• 30:57
  groups into doing his bidding.
• 31:00
  And because Democrats are like not crooks like that,
• 31:04
  they have like only public policy levers.
• 31:07
  You either like support workers or you do policies that don't
• 31:14
  support workers.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have...
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: like a tax system that is progressive or you don't.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't,
• 31:23
  I don't know how it's all going to wash out in terms of like
• 31:25
  voting dynamics and
• 31:27
  whether CEOs decide that like a little bit more in taxes is
• 31:32
  worth it for stability
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: and to not be over the barrel by this corrupt fucking thug.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But like that, like,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: they have to make the whole calculation, right?
• 31:44
  Including aspects of like democratic policy that maybe they
• 31:49
  don't like,
• 31:49
  but like,
• 31:50
  I don't know.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it,
• 31:51
  it seems like you put a lot of weight on the idea that like
• 31:55
  various democratic
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: regulatory ideas are a little annoying to some of these companies,
• 32:00
  but none on the idea that they find being prostrate like this
• 32:04
  to Donald Trump to be
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: both harmful to their business.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And also just like,
• 32:09
  uh beneath them in some sense and i mean i i don't know what to
• 32:12
  tell you you know i
• 32:13
  just i i hear what i hear i'm told what i'm told um you know
• 32:18
  there is very very
• 32:21
  very intense intra-coalitional pressure inside the democratic
• 32:25
  party on everyone to
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: not say
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Lena Kahn era was a mistake,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: and I don't want to return to that regulatory posture.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it is also true,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 32:38
  the pro-Kahnites will tell you accurately that there is a lot
• 32:42
  of pressure from the
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: business community,
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: from the Dem-sympathetic sides of the business community,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: to say,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: throw us a lifeline,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: disavow this.
• 32:52
  And there's a lot of pressure inside the Democratic Party to
• 32:54
  make sure that nobody...
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: does disavow it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it is 100% reasonable,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: 1,000% reasonable,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: 10,000% reasonable for the Democrat in the street to say to themselves,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why this is such a big deal.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: I am annoyed that it's a huge sticking point.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it is a huge sticking point.
• 33:13
  And for now,
• 33:15
  every single Democrat in elective office is choosing to side
• 33:19
  with the
• 33:22
  sticky leftists about this rather than the sticky culturally
• 33:26
  progressive business
• 33:27
  people about this and i think everyone should ask themselves
• 33:31
  not just like who am i
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: most annoyed with but like is the juice worth the squeeze on
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Abandoning traditional, like it's so stupid.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you got in a time machine,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: you say like one of the most important issues,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: high profile,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: like endless clashing,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 33:54
  that is going to bear like massive financial and political
• 33:57
  costs is whether or not
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: antitrust policy should be guided by consumer welfare standard,
• 34:04
  or should we attempt to create a different analytic standard
• 34:08
  for judging merger
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: approvals?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who fucking cares?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's try to beat Donald Trump, I would say.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: But many people care.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: I this is actually like a great segue into talking about Virginia,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: which we're way overdue to do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: But let's talk about Virginia.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you that it's the who fucking cares.
• 34:26
  This should be an easy bone to throw because it's a promise you
• 34:28
  can easily break if
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: you decide you want to break it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, go ahead and say, OK, sure.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: No more Lena Khan.
• 34:34
  And then you win the next election and you can point whoever
• 34:37
  you want to run the FTC.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 34:40
  I mean,
• 34:40
  you can't because you would have to have a Senate majority to
• 34:44
  appoint anybody.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of Democratic Party.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, that's all over.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just you just shove actings in and they do whatever they want.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll see.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: OK, we'll see.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were supposed to do this before the.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll do it after the break.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:57
  So we're going to talk about an alternative model of just
• 35:02
  fighting Trump and not
• 35:03
  concerning yourself with intercoalitional fighting in Virginia
• 35:09
  on the other side of
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: the break.
• 35:10
  If you want to hear that conversation,
• 35:12
  go to politics.fm and upgrade your subscription.