Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Young Mom's throat slashed, almost decapitated. Tiffany Mead survives to tell cops she didn't try to kill herself.

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Young Mom's throat slashed, almost decapitated. Tiffany Mead survives to tell cops she didn't try to kill herself. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Today on Crime Stories, we head to Utah. My next bleeding,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I need help quick? What happened? I tried to commit suicide?
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Please help me? All right? And I just need to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: asked a few questions. Okay, what do you still have
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the knife with you? No? I threw it out the window.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: How much are you bleeding? Oh well, my shirt is so?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: What's your name? Ythany need joining Nancy Grace, New York
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, Julie Rendelman, John Cardillo, formerly of the NYPD,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, doctor Michelle Duprie, medical examiner and
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, and Alexis terres Chuck
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: from Radar Online Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What is
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the address of your emergency? I'm in front of Davis
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: High School? Okay, What's what's going on there? My next bleeding?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I need help quick? What happened? I tried to commit suicide?
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Please help me? All right? And I just need to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: ask a few questions. Okay, what? Okay, do you still
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: have the knife with you? No? I threw it out
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the window. How much are you bleeding? Oh well, my
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: shirt is so? What's your name? Tiffany need Okay, is
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: anybody with you? Tiffany gel with my husband and my son? Okay?
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Where's your husband? I talked to him? Are you there? Yeah? Okay?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Is he sitting down? Yeah? Do you have a dry
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: clean cloth that you can apply pressure to her neck? So? Well?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: We need something? Are you applying pressure? Yes? She had
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: her hand on her throat? Okay. Do you know why
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: she why she did this? I don't know. And what
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: did she use to cut? She said she threw it
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: out the window? Did she by nice? Okay? Where's the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: knife right now? Somewhere down in a bully or something?
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Is there an officer? You let me know when an
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: officer shows up, Wave your arms and haunts her horn?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Is she still haunting? Breathing? Okay? Okay? Are they there? Yeah? Okay,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I'll let you go. Thank you. You are hearing a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: nine one one called by a beautiful young mom. Tiffany
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Meade as she calls nine one one and says she
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: has slashed her own throat in an attempt to commit suicide.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But the brutal throat slashing of this Utah mom takes
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: the investigation into a very very surprising path. I mean,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I see Grace. This is Crime Stories with me and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I'll star panel Julie Randelman, York criminal defense attorney John Cardillo,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: former NYPD and host of America Talk Live on Newsmax TV,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: where now it psychoanalyst out of LA doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: South Carolina Medical Examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree. But right now, to rate oar online
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: dot COM's investigative reporter Alexis Terrestcha, Alexis, tell me about
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the slash to this young Utah mother's throat. Well, police
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: really were very suspicious from the very beginning because this
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: slash was straight across her throat and it was really deep.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And they knew that when they have seen other people
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that have tried to commit suicide this way or have
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: done this to themselves, that would never be so straight,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't be so precise, and it would never have
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: gone that deep. People can't do that to themselves, They've said,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: so they knew. To doctor Michelle Dupree, South Carolina Medical Examiner,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: what Alexis is saying, I don't quite get it explained
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: to me the significance of the direction, the trajectory and
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the depth of the slash on Tiffany Meads, throw, a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: young mom of twenty two, Well, Nancy, she makes it
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: an excellent point. If someone is going to slice their
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: own throat, depending on whether they're right handed or left handed,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: they will typically, first of all, they'll typically have some
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: what we call hesitation marks because this hurts, and there'll
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: be some slashes that are very superficial. And then if
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: they're very determined, they will actually cut deeper. But when
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: we cut, we're not going to cut it at straight across,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: as in this case. We're typically going to hold the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: knife in a direction where it'll be a little bit
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: behind the ear, slanting upward and then come across the
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: neck and then maybe upward again. And again whichever hand
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you're holding the knife in that side of the wound
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: is going to be much more shallow simply because of
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the way that you have to hold the knife. And
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: so these are things that would be readily noticeable on
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the victim. You know, the way you just rattle that off,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupre with me, Doctor Dupre out of South Carolina,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: all or of Homicide Investigation, field Gate. Doctor, could you
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: slow that down again? Slow that down? And tell me
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: again the significance of what Alexis Torreschuk has just said. Sure,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: when someone is committing suicide with a sharp force instrument
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: like a knife, they are either right handed or left handed.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Typically they will make what we call hesitation marks, which
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: is the initial cut, and because it hurts, they'll be
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: very superficial, but there'll be a few attempts before they
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: actually make a deeper cut and then really do harm
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to themselves. In addition, whichever hand they're holding the knife with,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: let's say it's the right. If we take a knife
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: or an air knife and slice it across our neck,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it's typically going to come at an angle near the
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: ear and then go straight across and then go up again.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: As we come to the end of that side of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: our neck. The side that we're holding the knife in
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: is also going to be less deep. It's going to
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: be more shallow because again of the angle of the nine.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And so when we talk about the injuries that we
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: see on Tiffany, they would be against this. They would
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: be more lateral, more straight across, indicating that she did
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: not do this to herself. Doctor Sheila Garvey, the Auto
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Regional Hospital emergency room doctor treated Tiffany and was struck
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: by the severity of the wound, noting, as doctor Michelle
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Dupree has that most self inflicted stab wounds are not
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that deep. In fact, she nearly cut off her head. Yes,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: she had sliced suit. I don't even understand how she
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: was speaking. Listen. Just before midnight on July twenty third,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Deputy sheriff Jason Sorenson, responding to an attempted suicide,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: found twenty two year old Tiffany Mead in her car.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: It was a really severe wound, was straight across her
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: neck all the way across in the car seat was
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: her two year old son. Her husband, Chris Urtman, was
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: pacing the sidewalk. He had no shirt on. I noticed
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: he had blood all over his hands. By the time
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Lead Detective Bob Thompson arrived, Tiffany had already been rushed
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. You were hearing our friend at CBS
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours That was Aaron Moriarty. Listen to this. Well,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: she's trying to suicide, and I helped her out, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: her and excited to help her out. I try to
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: see her. I assisted in suing her. Okay, when you
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: see her. Who are you talking about? Tiffany? Tiffany, so
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you had said she wanted to meet up last night,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Tell me about that. I was supposed superior child support,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: so I thought I had my money order for so
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: it's gonna meet up and regret there and wasn't there
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: And she's a little pistol and told her alone. I
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: don't know how happe. She has a history of means
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: who's suicidal? I mean I love her. I mean I
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt her. She is a love mean If I
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt her, I wouldn't try to see her life.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Joining me right now out of la psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: explain to me what doctor Michelle Dupree was describing called
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: hesitation marks. Now I understand what she's saying. But what
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: do hesitation marks mean psychologically, doctor Bethany Marshall, Because there
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: were no quote hesitation marks on Tiffany, mead well, with
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: any type of suicidality a person unless they're extremely impulsive.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Well why why why wait right there? What is suicide? Alani,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I've never even heard that word. Somebody who makes who
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: is suicidal? Who wants to harm themselves, who no longer
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: wants to be on this earth, who wants to or
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: we say, prematurely terminate their life. They're going to contemplate,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: They're going to think, they're going to plan ahead. They're
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: not going to be in a car with their children
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: in the back seat. First of all, just looking at
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the behavioral evidence, this young woman was sitting in a car,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: her husband was there, her two young children evidently in
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the driver's seat. She had her hand on the steering
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: wheel when she called nine, one one, So right there,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: in terms of behavior, why would you be there if
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you're going to kill yourself. If you're a young mom,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: you're going to be away from your children and have
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: your children in the safe place. Secondly, just a part
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: of our evolutionary biological heritage is that we human beings
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: want to survive. So we are not going to want
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to slit our own throats. That is something that's not
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: going to be natural type of behavior. So she would
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: have had to work up a great deal of courage
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  Speaker 1: to commit this act, which means crying it again and again.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Similar to somebody who overdoses on pills, they might drink
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: a bunch of vodka and then take some nix or
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: out of an and then take some more pills, and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: then take some more and then finally drift off to sleep.
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  Speaker 1: They're not going to do it all in one cell swoop.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: It's going to take a great deal of determination of courage,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: unless they're impulsive and they just sort of jump off
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a building or something like that. But that's not how
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: women behave when they want to terminate their lives. Crime
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. There's the address of your emergency.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I'm in front of David's High school. Okay, what's going
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: on there? My next bleeding? I need quick? What happened?
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I tried to commit suicide? Please help me? All right?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And I just need to ask a few questions. Okay,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: what Oh you do you still have the knife with you? No?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I threw it out the window. How much are you bleeding? Oh?
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: What my shirt is? So? What's your name? Tiffany? Need? Okay?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Is anybody with you? Tiffany? Get here? My husband and
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: my son? Okay, where's your husband? I talked to him?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Are you there? Yeah? Okay? Is he sitting down? Yeah?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Do you have a dry clean cloth you can apply
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: pressure to her neck? My shirt? So well, we need something.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Are you applying pressure? Yes, she has her hand on
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: her throat? Okay? Do you know why she why she
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: did this? I don't know. And what did she use
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the cutter? She said she threw it out the window?
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Did she by nice? Okay? Where's the knife right now?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Somewhere down or something? Is there an office? You let
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: me know when an officer shows up. There were two
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: of us. Wave your arms and honked your horn. Is
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: she still punching her breathing? Okay? Okay? Are they there?
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you? Wow? Once again the nine one one call
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: by this young mom Tiffany me to report her throat
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: has been slashed, She's bleeding profusely, and she needs help.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the emergency room doctor says
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: she nearly cut her head off because the gash was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: so deep. Quote, she was critical. She just about cut
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: off her head. That's part of what the emergency room
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: doctor said, you know. To alexas Terreshut, investigative reporter Raider
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: online dot com, I didn't understand her children were in
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the car. She tried to commit suicide in her car
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: with her children there, her youngest son. She hasn't uhoot
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: an older son who was four. It was her two
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: year old baby was in the car at the time. Okay, granted,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, but having studied and assessed
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: methods of homicide and suicide for many years, I have
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: learned that suicide and homicide as well. But suicide can
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: be typed geographically. It can be typed more specifically to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: your gender, your age, even down to specifics about you,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and is highly highly unlikely, statistically speaking, that a woman
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: will kill herself a in front of her child and
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: be by slashing her own throat. That is statistically almost
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: unheard of. To doctor Michelle Dupree, you've certainly seen your
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: fair share of dead bodies, thousands and thousands of them
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: to be exact weight in your absolutely right, Nanswy. Typically
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: women take a much less aggressive method to commit suicide.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: They don't like the mouth, and they certainly wouldn't do
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it in front of loved ones. In fact, many times
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: they will actually leave a note saying please don't let
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: my children or my husband see me like this. This
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is very unusual that this would be the case, and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: also not only a mess such as a bloody room
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: or carpet, the self disfigurement is an impulse in women
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that very often we don't see in men, an impulse
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: not to do it. Men very often will commit suicide
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: by gun, by crashing their cars, just all sorts of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: violent and aggressive modes. Women more likely will overdose, We'll
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: jump out of window poison. That's more typical of how
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: women commit suicide. You know what I'm noticing? John Cardillo,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: former NYPD and host of America Talks Live on Newsmax TV.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: They all seem pretty calm. Mommy's bleeding out in the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: front seat. Nobody seems to be upset about it, neither
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: her nor the husband. Yeah, I mean that nine one
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: one call and to me says at all number one.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: You know, having responded to a couple of suicides, luckily
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: one where the person didn't succeed, two where they did,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: one being a police officer, unfortunately where the spouses were
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: all present. The spouses were hysterical doing everything. They were
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: screaming into the phone for nine one one. They were
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: trying to stop the bleeding, even in the ones that
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: were clear fatalities. It is just beyond all logic and
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: reason that your spouse attempts to commit suicide in that way,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: slicing your throat and you see them bleeding from the neck.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: But the gash that was almost almost resulted in the capitation,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and you have them make the nine one one call
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and self implicated. I never responded to a suicide with
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: a woman that was this violence. Typically it was pills,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: it was asphyxia after pills and alcohol. I can ever
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: recall a time when I responded to women with a
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: knife or a gunshot wound because of the disfigurement component,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the crime scene component, etc. Now, if this is not bizarre,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: take to this. What's going on there? My next bleeding?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I need help? Click? Okay, what happened? I tried to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: commit suicide? Please help me. But Tiffany Meade knew that
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: was a lie. She was forced to say that her
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: then husband, Chris Ertman, was sitting next to her in
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the car Mead was driving minutes earlier. Ertman used a
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: knife to slash her throat. He was angry because Mead
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: wanted to leave their marriage. It was one of those
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: fold out knife. I remember that click, and he put
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: his hand over my mouth and he slipped my throat
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: and he said, don't scream, stay calm and if it's
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: not already bizarre enough, imagine your husband, your child in
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the back seat, your husband sitting next to you, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: he can't stop you from slashing your own throat so
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: badly you nearly sever you're ahead. Take a listen our friend,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Aaron Moriarty. You just watched me sit in my car
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: and believe for a while. And then he leans down
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and he said, you know what I want. No. I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: said okay, and he said say it. And I said,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I love you and I want to be with you.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And he said okay, and then he said, seal it
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: with a kiss, and he leaned in my car and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: kissed me. It's like nothing can happen. And so he
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: told me that before he would allow me to call
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: for help, that we had to come up with a story.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And I told him I would say whatever he wanted
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: me to say. I pulled out my phone and I
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: was the one that called nine one okay. Alexa's terrez
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: shut Bethany Marshall, John Cardillo, Julie Rendelman, doctor Michelle Duprey.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: You're great, But doctor Bethany, I need a shrink. Did
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: you hear that before her throat was slashed, he forced
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: her to kiss him and avow her love for him. Nancy,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: this is so bizarre, so terrifying, it's so disturbing. I
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: almost am afraid to wait in and analyze this. But
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I have to hold on to the concept of a psychopathy,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that this guy is a psychopath, and we know with
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that personality disorder that whenever they get their feelings hurt
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: on some pathological level, of course, not like you or me,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that they have this cold, calculated, revengeful interior, and all
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: they want to do is slash and burn. And he
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: did not slash her throat because he wanted her back.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: He slashed her throat because he wanted to see her bleed.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Let's be clear about that. Because he wanted to have
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: power over her. He wanted to terrify her. He wanted
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to be in the ultimate position of authority where she
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: would do whatever he wanted her to do. This guy
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: had been plotting and planning revenge. I'm sure I don't
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: know you know what had been happening in the prior year.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if he had been stalking her,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: trying to hurt her in other ways, trying to be revengeful.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe financially withholding perhaps child support checks. I know that
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: she had met him there so that she could get
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: her child support checks, So that suggests that he was
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: withholding the check as a form of power over her too.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: But this guy is just a pure evil psychopath. That's
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the only way to understand it. This is ABC for
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: a Salt Lake City, Utah's Marcus Ortiz. Hurtman used a
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: knife to slash her throat. He was angry because Meade
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: wanted to leave their marriage. That was one of those
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: fold out knife. I remember that click, and he put
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: his hand over my mouth and he slipped my throat
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and he said, don't scream, stay calm, And I didn't scream.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: That's because inside her car was their two year old son.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: She had no idea if he was watching, so she
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: didn't scream. I didn't want the last thing if Noah
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: remembered me, if I died, I didn't want the last
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: thing he remembered of me was his mother screaming about you.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: She died using her hands, she says. Earthman kept her
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: arms down, prevailing her from stopping the bleeding. She finally
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: caved in and told Arthman she wouldn't leave him. Erkmann
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: agreed to let her drive to get help, but told
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: her to say she tried committing suicide. He was at
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: her side as she thought to stay alive. Crime stories
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Police and paramedics arrived and took me
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. Then the truth came out. I let
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: them know Chris did this to me. She tried to
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: kill me, and I told him to save my baby.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Artman was brought in for questioning. Detectives checked the wounds
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: on his hands and photographed him for their records. Chris,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: why are here? Well, she's tried to commit suicide and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I helped her out and her and I saftly help
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: her out and try to see her. I love her,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I mean I would hurt her. Joining right now. Renowned
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: New York criminal defense attorney Julie Randelman. Julie, how in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the world can a defense be mounted for this guy,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Christopher Urtman. Well, here's the thing, I mean, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the argument is you know that you have now too
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: crewfully seeing stories. You have his version, which is that
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: she slashed herself. You have her original version, which is
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that she splashed herself. And so, you know, a defense
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: attorney at that point without knowing more, because we know
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that there's much more to this case that we eventually
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: find out, is going to use that to at least
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: create that aspect of they have not proven this case
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: beyond reasonable doubt. And the other issue is whether or
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: not he intended to kill her versus intended to injure her.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I think those aspects are another thing that the defense
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: would potentially hone in on if they felt that they
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't get past the notion that he had been the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: one who stabbed hers. Well, Julie Rendelman, everyone joining me
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: out of Manhattan are renowned criminal defense attorney out of
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: New York. Julie Rendelman, what about is nine one one call?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I've played it twice for you. He doesn't sound upset,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: he doesn't sound excited, he doesn't sound hysterical, agitated. Nothing. Well,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I think called neither of them sounds that way, which
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: is incredibly peculiar. She can't talk because full of blood.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: But there's also a child in the back, so there
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: might be some argument to be made that the two
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: of them are acting as calmly as they can because
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: there's a child in the backseat. But look, I mean,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you're asking me how I defend him, and so the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: argument is very simple, is that both of them from
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the start say that she is the one who slashed herself.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: And also there was some evidence that she had had
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and suffered some depression and mental illness, so that might
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: help in terms of the defensive argument. I'm not saying
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: it's a winning argument, but it's certainly the argument we're
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: going to use. Well, you know what, doctor Bethany Marshalls, psychoanalyst,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I'm depressed now just hearing that. That's why Julie Rendelman
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: wins so many cases. I mean, she lays it out
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: like that. Somebody might actually believe it, but I'm getting
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: depressed just hearing it. And you know what the irony is.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: This is National Domestic Abuse Awareness Month, and you know what,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I think I might start crying. I have been working
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: at the Better Women's Center there for nine years at
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: night when I was a prosecutor, and we came up
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: with this program and that program and this helper and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: that helper, and I feel like we're right where we started. Bethany, Well,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I think you're right to cast this case in the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: light of domestic violence, because that's really what this is.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sure this couple had a long history of domestic violence.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And when you think of domestic commbicide, and it's so
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I've said this so many times before in your program,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and it's important for women to know. Women are at
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the greatest risk for domestic commicide as they are about
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to leave a relationship. That is the witching hour, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: or when they gain their independence. Let's say you're a woman,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: you're being abused, You're under your husband's control. He's taken
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: away your money, your resources, your autonomy. But you decide
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: to go to college, or you strike out and you
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: get your first friend, or you get your driver's license
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and you're about to drive. What happens. You are getting
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in becoming independent. And the more independent you become, the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: more anxious, frightened, and benchful your husband becomes. He will
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: try to have control over you. And how will he
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: try to have control? Maybe in some small way by brainwashing,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: maybe in a larger way by trying to kill you. So,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: if you're about to leave a relationship and you have
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a disturbed husband, that's when you need to protect yourself.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: That's when you need social support. When you sleep at night,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: make sure that you have all your papers around you.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Every courthouse has a help center. You can go to
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: the help center and you can have somebody help you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: file paperwork so that you can file a tro or
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: so that you can leave your relationship. You can also
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: protect your children. That's the number one reason women do
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: not leave domestic abuse situations is that they are frightened
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: for the children and they believe that the husband can
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: take the child run away from them. Your husband cannot
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: take your children away from you. Your children are yours,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and you can prove your case in court. And there
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: are resources there to help you. If you or someone
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: you know or love is suffering from domestic violence, Dial
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: one eight hundred seven nine nine safe one eight hundred
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: seven nine nine seven two three three. Just talk to them,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: tell them your situation, Wait till there's a safe time
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to speak freely. Well, as you heard Julie Randelman explain
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: what a potential defense was going to be, well, she
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: was right. Listen to be honest the time of Drie.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You seem like an honest guy. I don't think you've
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: been I don't think you've been in a whole lot
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of trouble, okay, but you're looking in some trouble tonight,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I have her steam in to the officers seeing you
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: cut her throat. She's she's a liar. I've got her
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: on nine one and it sounds very close to me
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: about I turn my own throat. She and if you
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: don't mind, and have stopped talking about this there he
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: calls her a liar. Well, it didn't work, but that's
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: not the end of it. Listen, if I wouldn't, he
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't try to save your life. But the detective didn't
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: buy a story. He's placed under a rust and eventually
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: he pleads guilty to aggravate an assault. These days, the
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: scarf from the attack is still visible. Me tries to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: avoid looking into a mirror, but she still believes she
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: made the right decision to leave him, even if it
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: came at a price. I know it's scary, but don't
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: stay for the kids. And the biggest thing is once
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you're leave, you're not safe. That's the most dangerous time.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know that. While in prison, Urban again
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: tried to have Mead killed by hiring a hitman. Alexis Terressia.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Doesn't everybody behind bars know by now their calls are recorded.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: While as my mom always says, criminals are stupid, So
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: this guy did not know, did not remember that maybe
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: he was recorded with the officer that had investigated this case.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Just something about it stuck with them. They just knew
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that something was strange. They spent five they spent listening
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to five months of his calls because they knew they
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: would say something. They finally realized he was looking for
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a man named Richard, and they decided to find out
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: who this Richard was because they understood what he was
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: saying was is that he wanted to get rid of
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Tiffany crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we realized that we
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: had to tell Tiffany what was going on. We have
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: an obligation to keep her safe. It was a hard
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: conversation because we have to tell this victim who's already
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: scared to death, that he's trying to hire somebody to
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: kill her. Heart disrupt I mean, I don't think there's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: even words to describe how it feels to hear that
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: someone that's already tried to kill you is trying to
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: hire someone else to kill you. It was just I
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: was devastated. She was trying to get through that healing process,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and it was so very painful to watch her emotions
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and understand that he's not going to quit. He's just
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: not going to quit. We contacted a local police department
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and had her house put on extra patrol. Confidently lived
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in fear. I remember telling her, if you're scaredness two
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I'll come up to your house myself.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: You don't have to hold this burden alone, Jenson. Her
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: big thing was just keeping me and my little voice safe,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and that meant the world to me. You are hearing
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Bob Thompson on the case Captain jin Dally Tiffany
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: herself from our friends at Oxygen's murder for hire. You know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I don't get it, John Cardillo. You're already behind bars
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: for slashing your wife's throat in front of your baby
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: boy in the backseat. Number one. And when I heard
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the mom saying how she didn't want to scream because
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that would be the last thing her son heard of her,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: it made me think of Emily Mason, who was running
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: through her home screaming and running from her killer. That's
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the last thing her two little girls heard is mommy
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: running through the home. So now we have him allegedly
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: behind bars, ordering a hint on her. Yeah, I mean
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: this was great police work, Nancy. So what I would
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: assume now we were talking about an attempted murder and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: a pretty brutal attempted murder investigation. So I would assume
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: those detectives went out and they spoke to family members,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: They spoke to neighbors, friends, co workers, other parents at
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the daycare, kids schools, and they put together a fact
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: pattern by which this guy had a history of threatening her.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I had a history of her being terrified for her life.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: You can hear in the nine one one call when
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: she says she tried to commit suicide. That's because she
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: was afraid. She knew that he was capable of murder.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And so these detectives did a great job. They said, look,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: we put this fact pattern together. This guy wants her
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: dead for all the reasons the doctor mentioned earlier, the
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: control watching her, bleed, watching her writhe and fear, and
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: they monitored him. And I'm a big proponent, I said
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: on my show, I said when I do these analyzes
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that I'm a big proponent. I'm not just profiling, but
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: of monitoring. When you know somebody's a bad guy, whether
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: they be incarcerated or not monitor them because chances are
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: they're going to try to do it again. To Julie Rendoman,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. He's behind bars for slashing his
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: wife's throat, and according to police, he is trying to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: order a hit from behind bars to get his wife murdered.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: How would you defend that? So, look, it gets harder
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and harder. The one thing, you know, we were talking
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: earlier about the idea that people don't realize that they're
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: being taped when they're behind bars. He did. He actually
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: was very very careful, at least initially about how he
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: went about it. In fact, when one of the people
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: came to visit the potential suitor to kill his wife,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he didn't speak. Instead, he put up a piece of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: paper with her address. So he was very very cautious
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: in the way he did things, and he used certain
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: language that never made out the words I want my
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: wife killed instead kind of alluding to it without saying it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So any defense attorney is going to grab onto that
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and say he never actually said he wanted her dead.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: He just, you know, the language is just being assumed
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: on the part of the prosecutor that this is what
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: he wanted. I could say that being played out in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: court to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of la
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: he tries to murder her twice. What does that tell
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you about his mindset? Well, that tells me he has
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the mindset of the stalker, but a stalker with homicidal overtones.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And remember stalker's stalk because they feel that they have
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a special and unique relationship with the victim, even when
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: there's evidence to the contrary. In other words, he still
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: believes they're in a love relationship. He still believes there's
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: something special between the two of them and that she
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: is obligated to him. So what happens is that the
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: stoker gets stuck in feelings of rejection, like, hey, we're
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: an item. Why aren't you calling me back? Why aren't
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you here for me? And so they go after the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: victim in order to punish the victim for having rejected them,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: so to say it again, they feel that he felt
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: there was a special relationship. She's rejecting him. He's going
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to punish her for that. And this is probably all
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: he's thinking about as he's sitting around in jail with
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: nothing else to do, is how he's going to get
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: back at her, and there's an overlay of the fact
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that now he's behind bars and she's roaming the world free.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So he's going to feel preoccupied by the fact that
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: she has something he doesn't and he wants to obliterate
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: her because of it. Take a listen to our friend
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Aaron Moriarty at CBS forty eight hours. Are you I
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: took a couple of pictures. I just want to verify
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: with you. Do you see that? Yeah? Is that right? Yeah?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Is that her? Yeah? Okay. So what I was telling
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: me was, you know, make it happen. Yeah, you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: have fun, And you're saying, I mean all the way
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: right not yeah, how fun? Okay, So when you when
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: you want me to have it done by just whenever
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you can. Is there a time period? I mean, is
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: there a no? No, no, sooner the better, sooner the better? Yeah? Okay,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: So let me throw a number out to you, just
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: so make sure we're on the same page. Yeah, I'm
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: thinking about five K Yeah. Does that work? Yeah? So,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: but just so we're clear, I'm talking about you know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: we're not like there's no way to come back from
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: me once I'm once I do You're good with that. Yeah, yeah, okay,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: well I'll uh, I'm planning on taking care of it
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: this weekend, okay, all right, and once I get some
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: of the money or whatever, then I'll get it worked
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: out and you know, yeah, I'll go from there. I'm
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: looking at the inside of Tiffany's car. Tiffany made a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: young mom, and her car seat is covered in blood.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know how she lived based on the amount
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of blood. The facts, the helpline, and the photos are
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: at crime online dot com, where we are highlighting domestic
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: abuse Awareness Month. Did you hear him say to the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: hitman Alexis Urez Chuck quote, have fun? He did. He
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: said it multiple times. Just have fun, have a good
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: time while you're killing the mother of my children that
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I already tried to kill and I'm sitting in jail
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: for it. I would really like to know if this
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: is what a real conversation is like when it actually works,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: because this, to me sounds so crazy, like I can't
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: even believe that these are the words that we're coming
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: out of his mouth. He was so vindictive from day one.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: You know, she was just a teenager when they met.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: She was in high school. He was living out of
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the country serving in the armed forces, and he abused
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: her from day one, is what she said. You know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: she was so young, I had these two babies almost
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: immediately after they got married, and just spent years trying
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to destroy this woman's life. And so to end it
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: with have fun just makes you so creeps me out.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: It thinks that he wants him to do something really
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: really brutal to her and have fun while you're torturing
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: my wife's death. Before this happened, Tiffany had finally had
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: enough of life with him and she ran away with
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: her boys. They moved in with her parents. She moved
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: on with her life, working full time and going to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: college at night. She even started dating. And that's literally
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the kiss of death, doctor Bethany Marshall. It is absolutely
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: the kiss of death because this guy has pathological jealousy.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: And remember men who this is important for women to
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: know because it's domestic violence awareness months. Men who are
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: what we call malignant narcissists. They are extremely fragile. They
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: cannot stand the fact that their wife or girlfriend is
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: out free in the world and enjoying themselves having friends.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: So when we talk about a malignant narcissist. What we're
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: talking about is a man who wants to destroy They're
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: extremely fragile. Everything hurts their feelings at some deep level,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: and they want to destroy their very destructive men. So,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: whether that's to destroy the bond between a parent and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: her child, it's whether it's the wish to destroy the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: child's mental health, to disfigure the woman so that she
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: no longer is beautiful to the rest of the world.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: That is the mo the disfigurement, the destruction. And you
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: can see that even as he's behind bars, he wants
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: to destroy her life. It's not just kill her, it's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: destroy her life, destroy her family, destroy good feeling. Well,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: as Julie Rendelman, renowned criminal defense Turning Out of New
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: York pointing out, the issue is going to be of
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and tente. Was he really trying to kill her? The
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: defense easily could argue that Urtman let Tiffany call nine
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: one one if you wanted her dad, why do that?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: And gave her his shirt to help stop the bleeding.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: So long story short, even behind bars, he is still
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: trying to have her kill by ordering a hitman. At
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: the end, when he's convicted, he comes up for parole
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: in just twenty twenty nine. To you, John Cardillo fromer
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: NYPD and host of America Talks Live on news Max TV.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: What's the chance of him getting parole? Well, it should
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: be slim to none. I mean, in a case like this,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: with the overwhelming evidence, it should be slim to none.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: But I just want to make a comment, an anecdote
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: about the doctor. It's said, you know you and doctor
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: comment that him saying have fun, and she said, well,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: is that a normal conversation. I've heard worse. I mean,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: we've had drug cases where they referred I remember one
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: we worked on a federal task force where they were
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: referring Tequilo's a cocaine as various kinds of fruit, pineapples
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: and oranges. And they said, well, and if any of
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: those crossing guards are in the crosswalk, just blow by,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: and meaning if there are any cops, just blow them away.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: And once we got one of them on So, yes,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: they do. These these bad guys who are homicidal and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: psychopathic and sociopathic, they really do talk that way and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: are often caught that way on the wire taps. But
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to the parole question, I would hope that we have
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: an intelligent parole board that says absolutely not. Where I
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: live in Florida, we've seen them be pretty tough on crimes,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: like as a friend of mine's dad was killed when
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: my friend was eighteen. The guy comes up for parole
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: about every five years, and finally the family appealed to
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: the state and they've extended that now to every fifteen
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: years so his elderly mom doesn't have to go through it. Luckily,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: they've denied parole. I think in a case like this
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: they certainly will, especially if the child recalls it and
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: is at an age for the subsequent parole hearings where
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: they can then testify themselves. If the board allows it,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: that's going to be pretty powerful testimony. He's right about
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: that being very powerful testimony. To Alexis trestchatwriter online dot Com,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: he is coming up for parole. Do you think he'll
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: get it? Why or why not? I do not think
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: he will get it because of the law enforcement, the
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: detectives in this case. They have worked so hard to
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: prove that not only was he a criminal when he
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: tried to murder her, but behind bars, he continues his
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: criminal actions. There's no repent, there's no apology. Here he
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: is continuing to live the life of a criminal, and
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I think that police officers, I think that the parole
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: board would take their word to hold it in such
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: high standard, with such high regard, that they would not
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: release him to you, Doctor Bethany Marshall, What can women
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: do to protect themselves? Okay, First of all, you have
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: to know the signs of an abusive relationship. Acknowledge that
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you're in one. Jealousy towards pets, financial abuse, somebody always
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: keeping tabs on your whereabouts, isolating you from your friends
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: and loved ones, blaming you for anything and everything that
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: goes wrong, and holding you responsible for their violent behavior.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: You have to know that you want to opt out
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: of that relationship. There's no way to fix it. Get
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: help and support. There are domestic abuse support groups in
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: every single community. You have to take precautionary measures, and
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: that is you know once you leave, change your online
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: user names and passwords. Only use a safe computer, go
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: to the library. If you're planning to leave, use another
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: computer so that you're not stalked or tracked by your partner.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Document the abuse, Nancy. You always have to document it.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Be ready for emergencies. If you have to leave your house,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: have all your important documents, always know where to run,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: where to go, get a restraining order, get psychological help,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: build up your support systems so that you don't feel
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: that you can't leave because you have nowhere to go.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Tiffany Meade, a young mom and her son lived today.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: She encourages women not to stay in the relationship for
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the children, but to leave to save their own lives
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: so their children will have a mother. We wait for
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the parole hearing as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crimes story,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: signing off last Word one eight hundred seven nine nine
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Safe one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: three The toll free domestic violence Hotline. Goodbye Friend,