Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous 20-year-old snatched at bus stop on way home from work, bound, tortured, raped & murdered. UNSOLVED! WHO MURDERED EVE WILKOWITZ?

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Gorgeous 20-year-old snatched at bus stop on way home from work, bound, tortured, raped & murdered. UNSOLVED! WHO MURDERED EVE WILKOWITZ? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: March twenty five, a woman notices a barefoot figure lying
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: on a neighbor's lawn. Just a few doors down. That
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: figure a beautiful young woman, Eve Wilkowitz, last seen boarding
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a late night train home from work. To this day,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the mystery surrounding Eve Wilkowitz goes on, I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: This is crime Stories, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: was very sweet. She loved Twyses, twicses with her passion.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: She loved to Eve was the older one, and the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: two sisters were living in Oakdale when they endured the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: loss of their mother to breast cancer. Eve later wanted
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: some independence and moved out to live with a boyfriend
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in Bay Shore. She was afraid of him. She felt
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: something wasn't right. But Eve had started to find a
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: life in Manhattan with a promising job at McMillan Publishing.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: A young writer there took an interest in Eve, and
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: he was the one who dropped her at Penn Station
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: for the last train to Bay Shore on that Friday
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: night in March. The other thing, I know she got
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: on a train from Penn Station. You know she was
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: on the train. Eve Wilkewitz made a final trip on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the Long Island Railroad to Bay Shore. The ride to
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: our south Shore town should have taken less than ninety minutes.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends at pix eleven in New York,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Mary Murphy, Eve Wilkewitz. All you have to do is
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Google to pull up her gorgeous photo. I'm Meancy Grace.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: with me an all star panels starting a newsday journalist
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Tony DeStefano, Cheryl Appoint genetic genealogist, the gene hunter John Cardillo,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: host America Talks on Newsmax TV, former NYPD and renowned
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: former chief medical Examiner, doctor Chris Sperry. But joining me
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: right now and first is not only a colleague, but
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a very dear friend, the father of slain jogger Corina Vatrono,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Phil Vatranto. Her father was dragged out of Corrina's general
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: in order to give d NA to help catch her killer.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And he did it happily. He did it happily, And
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that is an example of a crime victim, a loving
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: parent trying to find whoever killed his daughter. But now
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the fight is on to familial DNA, a reality in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: every jurisdiction, fill the Toronto. Why is this so important
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: to you? Why is twenty year old even Wiltro it's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: so important to you? Well, I think this is all
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I have left to do, you know, like sort of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: like John Walsh when Adam was killed. I tried to
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: continue my life the way it was, but I just couldn't.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And I had heard this story. I got a little
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: email from Rob Harmon out in California and he said
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: it would be a good idea for SS testing, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I decided that this is what's going to happen. We're
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: gonna get this tested, and we're going to try to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: find to help, you know, find who killed Irene. Insist
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: to Eve because it's forty forty years and that's a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: long time without any answers. And now that wound never healed.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Phil oh oh, how awful? I mean?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: You know, my fiancee was murdered, his killer was caught
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and prosecuted. You suffered both ways, for the many many
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: months you did not know who Karina's a murderer was,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: and then the fight to get him convicted. Joining me
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: right now, Newsday journalist Tony di stefan O'tony Let's start
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: at the beginning with Eve Wilkowis. Who is she? Tell
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: me about her? Evean Wilkowits was a twenty year old
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: woman originally from Long Island, and she was working in
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: New York City at a publishing house. This is in
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. I were talking March of nineteen eighty when
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: this all transpired. But she was living, you know, working
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: in Manhattan, living back on Long Island, the town of
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Bay Shore and doing a commuting life. You had a
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: boy friend in the city, and she was living in Bayshore,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, she was a young girl starting off
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: in the secretarial career, Tony. Isn't it true that the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: snoots in Manhattan call anybody living outside the city of
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Manhattan they call them b and T's bridge and tunnels
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: because you got to take a bridge or a tunnel
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: to get in, and the rents are so high in
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Manhattan nobody can afford to live there, so they live
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: outside and the surrounding boroughs like she did, and would
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: take a bridge or a tunnel train to get in.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So here she is living the dream. And when I
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: look at her, you're gonna laugh. Phil. I think about
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: that girl, do you remember that show. I was just
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: a little little girl and I remember it being on
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the TV and it was with Marlo Thomas. And she
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: moved to the big city to get a job and
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: make her way in the world. And this reminds me
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: so much of her in so many ways. But go ahead,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: go ahead with the story. Says she's got her place
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: in Bay Shore, she commutes in every day to work. Yeah,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: she's you know, she's living in back in Bay Shore.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: She's actually living with an old boyfriend in a rather
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: platonic situation. They were they remained friends, and they shared
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: an apartment together, and she was, you know, in the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: beginning of her career wherever it was going to be.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And she took the train home that Friday night, and
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the boyfriend, the current boyfriend at the time, put her
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: on the train, star off and that was it. She
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: got on the train. People know she was on the train.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: She got off the right Let me just stop you
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: right there, Tony to Stephanoe Newsday journalists. Are we sure
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: she got on the train? Was she observed by anybody
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: other than her boyfriend? Yes? The conductor's okay, the train conductor,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and they had her, they knew she was on. They
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: we remembered and recalled her being present on the train.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: You know, as a matter of fact, take a listen
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: to our friends at pix eleven. This is Mary Murphy.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Three days after Eve Wokewitz failed to come home from Manhattan,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: her body was discovered here at the Bay Shore, a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Long Island railroad station, her original destination. As she was strangled,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I know her hands would tie the rope burns, I'm
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: pretty sure around her hands the whole. The police told
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Eve's family she'd been held alive for three days before
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: she was killed. Whoever they could find. They interviewed the
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: boyfriend she was living with. Did the police tell you
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: they ruled him out? Yeah? I believe so. The murder
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: was long before the evolution of DNA testing and in
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the years that followed. Irene Brassner didn't talk much about
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the case to her daughter Dara and son Evan. My
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: mother explain to me and that I was named after her.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: You it was definitely an honor to be named after her.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Mary Murphy, along with Irene Welkwitz
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Bossner and brother Evan Brosner. To doctor Chris Sperry, renowned
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: former Chief Medical Examiner, doctor Sperry. How would the medical
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: examiner know that she was held alive for three days
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: before she was murdered. I think the medical examiner would
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: be able to give an estimation like that based upon
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: probably the absence of decomposition, the absence of changes that
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: would be present if she had been dead all that
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: period of time. If her body would appear to be
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: very fresh, and there was no decomposition, bloating, or gas accumulations,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the things that occur after death were the passage of time,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: then I mean that's a very reasonable conclusion. Okay, doctor
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, it just break it down for me, just
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: for a moment. And I'm going into this in depth
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: because it matters. And I'm also doing this because I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: don't have her family member on because this would certainly
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: cause them a lot of sorrow and agitation. But doctor
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Chris Berry, explain to me how you can tell a
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: body is, as you say, fresh. I've never really heard
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: get referred that way, but okay, go ahead, doctor Sperry,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: you're the m I'm just a JD. Tell me the
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: ways you can look at a dead body and almost
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: almost automatically, no, it is fresh as opposed to having
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: been lying out in the elements for three days. Well,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the first thing would be evaluation of the rigor mortis,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: or the stiffness in the muscles and joints, that develops
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: after death. And this will begin at room temperatures, usually
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: about twenty to thirty minutes after someone dies, but then
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: progress and by twelve hours the body will be very
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: very stiff, and over the next baby twelve twenty four hours,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: all that begins to pass, so that the stiffness is lost.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: And so in evaluating a body that has been found
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: outside like this, the degree if any, of stiffness the joints,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the presence of rigor mortis, or the absence of it,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that is to indicate that it is passing, gives at
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: least a broad estimation of perhaps how long the body
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: has been out. And one thing you said, which is
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: very important, that is, if a deceased body is put
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: out in the elements, then lots of other things start
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: to happen. Insects will find the body and lay eggs.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And because this is just this is part of nature.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: This is how the natural world takes care of any
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: dead organism by other bugs of the creatures really make
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: food out of it then breed. And if finding a
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: body outside, and say, for instance, if the person has
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: been missing for three days but yet there's no evidence
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: of any fly larvae on the body, any maggots, anything
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: that indicates insect activity, then that means the body has
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: been somewhere else and probably the person very likely could
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: have been alive if there's no other changes like decomposition, bloating,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: gas accumulation, slippage of the skin, all of the things
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that occur again with the passage of time. So if
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: someone if the body is found and there's no evidence
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of any insect or animal predation, no maggots, there's no swelling,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: no bloating. All of these different factors work together to
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: really give the ability to say that the person not
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: only hasn't been outside for three or four days, but
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: also when time stories with Nancy Grace, I would hear
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: of music through the walls all the time, the Beatles,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Elton John and Billy Joel. To this day, when Irene
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: bros senor of East Meadow, here's a Billy Joel song
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: or a Beatles classic, she's flooded with emotions. Growing up
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: in Oakdale, Irene and her older sister Eve were close.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: They remained that way until March twenty fifth, nineteen eighty.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: That's when twenty year old Eve Wilkowitz's lifeless body was
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: found just blocks away from the Bay Shore train station.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: After thirty six years, her death still remains an unsolved mystery,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: even though she expressed concern to her family just a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: week before she was murdered. She's saying that I think
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: someone's been following. Eve commuted to and from Manhattan, where
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: she worked as a secretary for a publishing house. At night,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: she routinely made the ten minute walk from the station
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: to her Bay Shore apartment. Suffolk Police believe she was
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: abducted while walking home. Detectives interviewed multiple suspects, but never
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: made an arrest. Published reports at the time suggested that
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Eve was most likely held captive for three days and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: sexually abused. You're hearing our friends at News twelve Long Island.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: That was Rich Babbie speaking on her way home from work.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: She was a commuter, gets off the train and is
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: never seen alive again. Days later, her body is found.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Now we are learning right now that it's believed her
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: hands had been tied based on burnmarks on her hands
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and that she had been sex abused. What really happened
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to twenty year old Eve? Can you imagine the torture
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: of being held alive for days on end only to
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: be murdered, your body discarded. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us. To John Cardillo,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: former NYPD host America talks on Newsmax, John, again, thank
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. That sounds like a well
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: thought out plan for some or would it be a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: crime of opportunity, someone possibly seeing her on the train
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and suddenly deciding to attack her. But there is one
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: clue that suggests this was long planned. Listen, I just
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: figured any day now, you know, we'll hear closure, and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you know, any days now, very six years later and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: still and my dad never saw closure, and you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: he died in two thousand and ten, so he never
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: guide answers. It's that's one of the things that makes
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: me most sad. You know so well. I know she
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: was out with her friend than the city. She was
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: working to McMillan Publishing in Manhattan, and she was having
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: dinner with her friend and she was going to go
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: on the train to come home and never made it home.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if my dad heard it, but I
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: know I did, and I don't think I'm making enough.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: All these years, I still kind of remember saying, I
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: think someone's been following me. I think that was one
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: of the last times I saw her. Is that last
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: conversation saying that I think someone's been following me? Okay,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that's not enough to just send chills down your spine.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know what is to think someone's following you.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: That's our friend at Newsday speaking along with sister Irene.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Back to you, John Cardillo, the fact that you believe
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: someone is following you? Is that real? Or is that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: just the stuff that novels are made up? No, I
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: absolutely think the family their gut instinct than yours. Nancy's
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: in the right place for your our listeners. Viewers that
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: don't live in the New York area aren't familiar. That's
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a crowded dream. The Long Island Railroad line from Manhattan
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and Bay Shore is incredibly crowded. More importantly, a lot
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of police officers, a lot of firefighters live out there.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: They're on that train. So first instinct, thirty thousand foot view,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I agree, I think this was pre planned. You certainly
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't commit the abduction on the train. It sounds like
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: she was a rush hour commuter, but that particular line,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: those train cars are pretty crowded even eight thirty nine o'clock,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night. People have afterward dinners in the city,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So my initial instinct says she
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: was followed off the train and abducted somewhere in a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: dark part of the Bay Shore station, or maybe walking
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to a vehicle, walking to a cab stand, something like that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And that's somebody certainly who tracked her, who followed her,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: who planned this out, who knew her movements, who knew
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: her schedule. It's unlikely that on that crowded Long Island
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Railroad line the abduction would have happened on the train,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: So I think the family's instincts are dead on point
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to Tony to Stephano used a journalist, Tony, she actually
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: told family members and maybe others she felt someone had
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: been following her. But did she ever give a description
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: or who she thought was following her? Well, she may
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: have given enough of a description, because the police subsequent,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: many years subsequent, told me that there was a person
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that they focused on who the belief was following her,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and they cleared that person from involvement, you know, through
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: DNA testing. So I think she did relate enough of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: that to allow law enforcement to focus in on somebody eventually.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: But that person turned out to be non culpable, as
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it were, So you know, this was not a pigment
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: of her imagination. I don't believe, Okay, So that was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: not made up. She actually gave a description and told
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: several people she felt she was being followed. I'm just learning.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: She worked at macmillan Publishers, which is a huge book
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: publishing company headquarters in Manhattan. They have very prominent imprints,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: sell books all around the world, award winning books for
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: children and adults in every category. I remember growing up
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: some of our textbooks or books that we had at
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: school were McMillan. That opens up a whole plethora of
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: potential suspects. If she worked in a skyscraper in downtown Manhattan,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: was going in and out at lunch for coffee breaks,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: who could have seen her or who could have been
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: watching her on her train. Now this is someone we
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: believe was following her, and that makes a big difference.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Joining me the dad of jogger Carina Vetrono. Feel Vatrono
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: is with us, you know, feel there's a big difference
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: between someone that's been stalking you and someone that just
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: happened upon you at that moment, and it's a crime
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of opportunity, feel the Toronto. Yeah. And I'm not sure
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that Karee's killer just happened to be there. I'm not sure.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: We're never gonna know. We're never gonna know for sure,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: but I kind of believe he was looking for her,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and because just to be at that exact place at
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that exact time, hidden so well. And I think he
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: was there the week prior when I was on vacation.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: But you know, questions like that are never going to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: be answered. Time stories with Nancy Grace so well, I
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: know she was out with her friend in the city.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: She was working McMillan Publishing in Manhattan, and she was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: having dinner with her friend and she was going to
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: go on the train to come home and never made
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it home. I don't know if my dad heard it,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: but I know I did, and I don't think I'm
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: making enough all these years, I still kind of remember
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: saying I think someone's been following me. I think that
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: was one of the last times I saw her. Is
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that last conversation saying that I think someone's been following me.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: You are hearing the sister Irene Wilkewitz, Brass and her
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: speaking on a newsday interview. John Cardillo hosts America Talks
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: on Newsmax TV former NYPD. I always say there's no
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: coincidence in criminal law, and I find it very difficult
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: to believe that this young girl, Eve Wilkewitz, just twenty
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: years old, believe somebody's following her. She tells family members
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and maybe others about it, then she ends up dead,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: having been kept alive for three days. I don't think
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: that's a coincidence. John Cardillo, No, I don't at all.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But unfortunately the police can't act on a mere gut feeling, right.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: That's the scary part of this. Even if she had
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: said to her family, I think I'm being followed. There's
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: a guy with brown hair and blue eyes. Well if
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: they interview that guy, even if he turned out to
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: be the purp and he says, well, yeah, I get
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: off the same train she does every day. I take
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: it from Manhattan like she doesn't we walk the same
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: direction to our vehicles. There's nothing the police can do,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: so even if that person subsequently turns out to be
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the bad guy, it doesn't. It's not an indictment of
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the police or of her family not taking action. There
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: was really no crime to report other than a gut
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: suspicion prior to her abduction and subsequent murder. Eve Wilc
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: who it is, twenty years old, working at a publishing
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: house when her body was found near the Bay Shore
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: train station. I'm learning it was about a ten minute
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: walk from the station to where she lived in her
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: apartment with her friend. To Tony to Stephano newsday journalist,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: what else can you tell me about Eve's body? What
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was discovered? Well, she was discovered by a housewife looking
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: out the window. She was making coffee and saw, you know,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the body on the on the ground. Uh. She uh.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: You know, there had been signs uh. It was clear
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: that she had been raped. That came out subsequent. Family
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know this until very recently, but the police obviously
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: did no uh. And there was evidence of u uh
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: that she had been bound and uh. And there was
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: asphyxia evidence since she was strangled uh, and there she was.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: She was, you know, dropped off like a like a
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: sacapotatus on the side of the road. Pretty chilling the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: fact that she was raped. Cheryl a point joining a
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, the Jane Hunter. Obviously they have not been
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: able to match up DNA found in and on her
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: body to the killer. Explain to me what is familial DNA, So, Nancy,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Familial DNA is actually a process that's used to run
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: through the CODA system looking for a familial match to
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the DNA that they have. We can an exact match
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: would find the perpetrator. But many states now allow familial DNA,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and that allows you to run that DNA through the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: CODAS system, which has the DNA of criminals and convicted felons,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: and you can look for a family member, a parent,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: a child, or a sibling which show up with familial DNA,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and lots of times that leads police to an area
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: where they can actually find who the criminal is. To
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Tony to Stephano, Newsday journalist, tell me about what you
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: know regarding DNA found on or in Eve's body. Well,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it was enough. I think it was robust enough for
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: them to take to take the sample, run it through codis.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Of course they got no hits on that, Compare it
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: with possible suspects such as boyfriend's ex boyfriends and the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: other people, and come up with no hits. As it were.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: As it was just, uh, you know, it was explained
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to us that, you know, the sample was good enough
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: for that and what they have in terms of the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: profile of the unknown mail they are now going to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: try to take and run it through the genealogical searching
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and also through familial searching, so there's enough there for
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: them to do the searching. Uh, And it was a
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: good enough sample. Sometimes the samples enough very good and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: they can't do familial searching or any other kind of searching.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: New York State sometimes rejected I think probably about a
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: dozen or so samples they got from law enforcement over
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the years recently because the samples it's not good, you know,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: enough to compare well, this is what I know. New
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: DNA methods could crack this case, but New York won't
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: allow it. With the Golden State killer case was cracked
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: wide open based on familial DNA, the remaining relatives of
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Eve Wilkerwitz thought it would crack their case. Wide open
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: as well. I don't understand why why it's not being
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: allowed to feel of a Toronto who is championing and
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: campaigning for the use of familial DNA, why are they
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: not allowing it and Eve Wilkowitz's case. Phil, That's a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: very good question, Nancy, And you know it's been it's
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: going to be three years on February and February tenth
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that New York State passed the law. Three years and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: there hasn't been a single case where we have style
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of the crime. And it also makes me wonder are
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they actually running the tests? I don't even know. You know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that's a question. Why aren't they using it all? Why
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: haven't they found anybody? I don't know, you know, it's
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: very strange. We do know that Wilkowitz's relatives contacted a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: private DNA group. Now this private DNA group use this
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: investigative genealogical technique to solve violent crimes, and it's sparked
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: interest in the technique. Parabond they did not do. The
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Golden State killer case has since helped dozens of cases
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: become solved, and they are led by the company's genetic
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: genealogist CC Moore. Now here's the problem. New York regulates
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: private companies performing DNA forensic tests. I wonder, because it's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a private company, if that's why they won't allow it,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why they won't do it themselves. Cheryl
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: appoint genetic genealogist, the gene hunter, Shara. How difficult would
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it be too if you got DNA? How much do
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: you need? What quality does it have to be? Not degenerated?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: How can we do this? Nessie? This DNA would have
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to be put in what we call a sniff file,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and it would have to be uploaded to the genealogical
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: sites that we use, the same sites that I use
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: daily to help adoptees find their biological family. You put
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: that information in there and you look for connections, biological
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: connections to ancestors. It would I believe this case definitely
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: could benefit from this process. We would look for shared ancestors.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I build a family tree, and I find common lines
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and give leads to law enforcements that hopefully would direct
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: them to someone who is connected to this criminal. Share
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a point. I've got a question for you for people
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: that want to do for instance, ancestry dot com or
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: whatever it is they want to do. Is there a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: way that they make their names secret? Do they give
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: false ID so it makes it harder to track them down? Yes, ma'am.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: You can use aliases on any of these directed consumer
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: DNA testing companies, and oftentimes it is difficult for us
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to find out who a match is. And again, all
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: we get is a name of who the matches are.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: We don't see anyone's genetic code. We just get names.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: So it's very possible to keep that information private. On
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the site that law enforcement uses white Jet Match, we
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: have to actually enter an email to upload your information.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So that's how I have been contacted in the past
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: by law enforcement looking at matches that could possibly help
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: them with cases. And I know now that law enforcement
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: cases have to be specifically tagged for law enforcement use.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: So unless you opt in or agree to law enforcement
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: using that, you won't be seen by law enforcement, You're right.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: So that's another hurdle that will have to be crossed
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to host of America talkss Next TV former NYPD John Cardillo,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: What about it, John Cardillo, Well, look in New York
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: State where we're talking about, there's something very bizarre going
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: on there politically. You can see it with their new
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: no cash bail New York State politicians, and I'm going
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to come out and say it, and I'll take credit
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: for it, are pro criminal. There's no other way to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: phrase it. Because the evidence supports it. We're letting in
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: New York State armed robbers, guys with four to five
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: bank robberies out on bail. And recently a ninety two
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: year old woman was raped and murdered by a repeat
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: offender set three hours after arrest because of no cash bail.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: And so when you've got that pro criminal, anti criminal justice,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: anti law and order mentality in New York State, why
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: would they deploy familiar DNA which is a travesty because
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: it works, it's constitutional, it's investigatively sound, and it's putting
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: bad guys in prison. And I think the people in
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: New York States would be very, very alarmed at what's
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: going on. To fill the Toronto father of slain jog
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Or Karina Pa Toronto, you pushed at New York State
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: to allow familial DNA correct correct, and it is allowed.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: And there were fourteen cases brought to New York State
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Parlcreneal Justice that were approved for use of familiar DNA testing.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: So it's not the governor who's putting the brakes on this.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: It's a very slow process, but I'm trying to find
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: out what he's taking them so long. I mean, I've
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: even heard that they've gotten a few leads, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a few hits where it might be a relation crime
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace and New York requires private companies
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that want to do familial testing, although if it's been
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: allowed in New York, the crime Lab, the state crime Lab,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: should be doing it. But private companies before they can
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: do DNA forensic testing, they have to get what is
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: called a forensic identity permit from the New York State
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Department of Health, and that requires just private companies to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: make sure they're up to snuff before they hand over
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: any DNA. But you don't want to lose the DNA
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: or damage the DNA for future testing, Doctor Chris Sperry,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: a former chief Medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sperry, can't you reproduce DNA in the lab? Say
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: you've just got a tiny bit of DNA? Can it
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: be regenerated so you can then share some of that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: with a private testing company. Like peribond. Well, you can
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: amplify DNA, that is, using special techniques, you can take
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a very very tiny quantity of DNA and really amplify
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: it or at large it so you have more to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: work with. But it's you know, it's a very tricky
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: process as well, and it's in order to do that
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and then share it with other companies, that's uh. You know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: there's also room for error if DNA is transferred from
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: one one place to another. The best process really is
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to collect as much specimens as possible. Initially, say with
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the autopsy has done and the examination of the victim
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: has done, is collect all the clothing, take multiple swabs
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: from everywhere on and in the body, especially in a
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: suspect of where a rape has been suspected, and then
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: be very careful about testing because only a tiny amount
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: of specimens is really nests sary um, you know these
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: days to do good accurate testing. So that's those are
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: that's part of the quality control aspects of doing DNA
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: testing is um that one has to be very careful. Again.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Fortunately today very very very tiny quantities are highly reliable.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I mean they're dependable, So even tiny amounts are dependable.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: And I think I'm hearing what you're saying correctly or
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: understanding it correctly. Doctor Sperry, Are you saying that DNA
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: cannot be reproduced but you can amplify it or make
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it bigger so you haven't more to test with. Yes, exactly,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that's done. That's that's the part of the routine process.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I guess. I want you to take a listen to
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: our friends at newsday so all I know she was
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: out with her friend in the city. She was working
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: to Mith Millen Publishing in Manhattan, and she was having
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: dinner with her friend, and she was going to go
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: on the train to come home and never made it home.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: My kids, I worry every little time they go out
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the doing my last worst and all the times. Be careful,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I love you. I make sure I tell
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: them every time after I see you know, when I
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: see them, you know, be careful to be safe. You know,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you know it's you just never know. How could he
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: have lived with himself all these years and not have
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: turned himself in or whatever he still or how could
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: he you know, another human being do that's another human being.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: It's just beyond my you know, how I could how
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: people could think on all of it and anymore, what
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: are you waiting for? You know, this is the time.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: You know, life is too short, too precious to you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: let's help help my family find acers. It's just crazy already.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Well likely because the killer, the rapist wants to save
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: his own skin. He may have even committed more rapes
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and murders to Tony to Stephano, Newsday journalist joining as Tony,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: what is the hold up? Why won't New York State
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: allow the familial DNA test? Well, I still said, you
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: know it is allowed in the problem is that there's
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a process that's a little bureaucratically cumbersome. Police agencies have
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to sign with the state a memorandum of understanding. This
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: became big, uh flash point with the NYPD, and which
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: has no role in this case, the NYPD in the state.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: But it's a it's a process. You got to sign,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: it's memorandom. You've got to adhere to certain processes and practices.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: You also have to have your people go through certain training. Uh.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And you also have to get a sample that is
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: acceptable to the state. I don't think that's a problem
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: in this case. The will of its case. So again,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: hold up. What do you think? Yeah, I think the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: probable hold up to me is that somewhere along the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: line they haven't done these bureaucratic things that either they
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: haven't signed a memorandum of understanding yea, or they haven't
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: put enough people through through training. The police commissioners said
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: that they are working on it's a process, and okay,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that's that's what she's doing. But it's a process. I
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: wonder how that makes Eve's family feel. Listen to Mary
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Murphy picks eleven. The memories can be crushing for Irene Brossner,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: who started running after her mother died. She was later
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with a painful stomach condition, Crohn's disease. She started
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: doing half marathons to fundraise. I really didn't have any
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: friends whatsoever. But since teen challenge that the most amazing people.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: When I'm running, that's my only time that my mind
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: is completely like at peace. Still, Brassiner's own medical challenges
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: have continued. Just two years, had always diagnosed breast cancer
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and had a biladal mess at to maso, I'm cancer
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: for you. I think I sn't right now, and at
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: fifty three, Brossener said it's time to speak out. For
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: her sister. Her beloved father died in twenty ten without
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: getting justice. What is your hope now? It's fine if
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: we did this to her. I know we can't bring
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: her back or anything. I have to be her voice
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: that it has to be now. If you have information,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: call eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Repeat eight hundred two two zero eight four seven seven
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, goodbye friend