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The Immaculate Franco Harris · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to another exciting edition of Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: As usual, I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt, and I'm joined by I'm Tim Hannon.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right, and today we're going to talk about a guy who was his own one-man Italian army.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: That would be, of course, Franco Harris.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he's one of the most beloved Steeler players to ever play.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he's also only one of three players to ever have his number retired.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tim, can you name the other two?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that hard.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh it's Joe Green, number 75, and it's Ernie Stoutner's number 70.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the list.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only three numbers you can not wear.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you wonder why Pat Fryermouth is wearing, you know, Lynn Swan's number or why I actually had this uh with a person that was at work yesterday.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, number 39, Darren Perry.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy was like, he had a it was a Minka Fitzpatrick jersey, but it was like, and I forgot Willie Parker wore that too.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it the Steelers are kind of weird like that.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really, you know, they they let like remember Deshay Townsend wore 26, and so did Rod Woodson.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And Le'Veon Bell.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of kind of weird like that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he he's a legend, uh Franco's a legend, and he was legendary um on the field, but I think his life off the field was as legendary.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he was just an all-around uh great person, um, beloved pillar of the Pittsburgh community.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so we're gonna pay our respects to um one of the rare players who was definitely a Hall of Famer on the field and a Hall of Fame person.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So to start with, um he was born March 7, 1950, and uh and it was at Fort Dix in New Jersey, and um what it was was his father was in the army and his mother was from Italy.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe his father was African American, his mother was Italian, and uh, I guess they admit during the war or or in the army, and they came back to um United States, and um, you know, there Franco was born and raised in New Jersey.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um after that, uh, he went to uh some school called Penn State, boo hiss.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he played fullback.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: He did not play running back, he played fullback, but he was mainly blocking for a person named Lydell Mitchell.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Lydell Mitchell ended up he was very good.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: He I did he win a Heisman for them?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: He did not win a Heisman, but I believe he had a very successful career at Penn State.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: He was the one projected to be like the NFL star, if if I remember correctly, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he had a successful pro career with the Baltimore Colts.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't he wasn't like he was a you know bust or anything.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: He was a very good running back.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I don't know why they put Franco at fullback, but they did.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was uh Joe Paterno's idea, so don't blame me.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh in college, uh he had you know still solid numbers, 643 yards his six in the first year starting.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: He had like averaged around 600 yards and you know, one year, 10 touchdowns, eight touchdowns, six touchdowns.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you know, back then you gotta remember they ran the ball a lot.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Offenses didn't produce as much yardage.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, so Franco, you know, comes out of college in 71 and um 72, the Steelers um are finally you know starting to come around.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're uh getting better, and 72 would really be the first year that they uh finally, you know, Chuck Knowle taking over in what 69, and it'd been two or three years, and they'd been really bad the first year with Chuck Knowle, but they had a quarterback, they had two quarterbacks, actually, Joe Gillam and Terry Bradshaw, and Terry Hanratdy from uh Notre Dame, and um they were building a defense.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Chuck Knowle was building today and Mean Joe, and they were really starting to put together a team, and 72 was the year it all kind of kind of game together finally for the Steelers, and that was uh the year they drafted Franco.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, I I I think I remember you know people saying how key you know some of the players were, you know, they said, you know, before we draft them, we never won.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: After we draft them, we never lost.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely, you know, some some good quotes there.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so what would we uh say uh what his most memorable play obviously was his rookie year um in the playoffs.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are down what uh six to nothing.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, some little play called the Immaculate Reception, Terry Bradshaw runs around with a chicken in his head cut off, throws a desperation pass that bounces definitely off of Jack Tatum, scooped up by the ball on his white horse, as Myron would later say by uh Franco, and he runs into the touchdown for one of the most iconic plays in NFL in obviously Steeler history, and the Steelers win seven to six, and it's actually really the start of their dynasty, which is weird because they did not go on to win the Super Bowl in 72.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: They actually lost the next year to the the next week to the Dolphins that who were in the midst of their undefeated season.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually, even the year after 73, I think they lost to the Raiders in the playoffs.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, correct.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it everybody forgets about that 73 season.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: They really they put together a good year and made the playoffs, but they didn't they did not make it past uh a playoff game.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and and Steve, I think it was I think it was actually 7-6 Raiders and then the Steelers with that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, my bad.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: 13-7.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, it was they were down and they were down to their last play either way.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's it was fourth and ten, yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a really good point that like they didn't win a Super Bowl until two years later.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And usually when you have a play like that that launches a dynasty, like like when the 49ers had like the Dwight Clark catch.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they won the Super Bowl.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Or even when the Ravens, or I'm sorry, the Ravens, when the Patriots had the Tuck roll, you know, that they won the Super Bowl that year.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you're right.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's kind of one of those things that no one seems to really remember.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it wasn't like the next year, it's like, oh well, we didn't make it that year, but the next year right back at them.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was 73.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody forgets about the 73 season.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should cover that sometime.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder what happened that year.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said, I know they lost to Oakland in Oakland, I do believe.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So Oakland kind of got their revenge the next year.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if the Steelers don't go on and win four Super Bowls, is that is remember?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, they beat Oakland, but then Oakland beat them the next year.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so what?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you're right.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: That that that that's an interesting way to look at that play.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so you know, obviously the immaculate reception, you know, we've covered that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh as for Franco, um Super Bowl nine, so we go into the 74 season, and the Steelers have a great season.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I forget who they beat that season in the playoffs.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: They beat the Buffalo Bills, and then they beat the Raiders in Oakland.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: In Oakland.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: In the AFC championship game.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they had to play the Raiders three years in a row.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can see why that became such a rivalry.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: They actually ended up playing them five years in a row when it was all said and done, yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but at that point it was three.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so now it's you know one-on-one.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of the uh rubber match, as they would say in baseball.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers beat them two out of three times, and this time it's to go to the Super Bowl.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so this time they do end up in the Super Bowl, and they play the Minnesota Vikings, and it's a real barn burner.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Super Bowl nine.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting is the Steelers did not have much of an offense in 1974.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, Terry Bradshaw, I do believe, did not start as a starting quarterback till week six.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's correct.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Joe Gillam.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Joe Gillam was in the first, but then um he got hurt, and more importantly, he had some off-the-field issues, and um that really changes the way things go.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that first Super Bowl, and even I've heard you know other players talk about that on offense, was that first year was like give the ball to Franco and everybody block in front of him.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So this is Franco's third year in the league, and he, the Super Bowl nine, he has 158 yards on 34 carries.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that kind of carries the offense for them.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's really the story is the defense shutting down Fran Targetington.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Dwight White, you know, gets a safety on Targeton early.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: The score the score at halftime was two to nothing, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Two to nothing at halftime.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of was emblematic of that game.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: It it was a cold day, and they played it outside in New Orleans at Tulane Stadium.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was hard to kick there.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was not like the greatest Super Bowl ever played.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, Franco has a great game.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: He he wins.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: He they win, he wins.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, other Super Bowl, he has other great Super Bowls.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there was a play against Dallas in a later Super Bowl where I think um, I don't know if it was Hollywood Henderson or one of the one of the guys like they slams Terry Bradshaw down.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Terry said, you know, Franco never really complained about not getting the ball or getting the ball.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I want the ball on the next play.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I want the ball.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, he gives him the ball, and Franco goes for a touchdown.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he was just he was a clutch player and uh, you know, a good teammate standing up for his quarterbacks there.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he you know ends up winning you know four Super Bowls like the rest of that team and uh has a very iconic career in Pittsburgh, very popular.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: He actually, there was actually one point, um, I think they were in um what's it called?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: They were in uh Pasadena, and they got Frank Sinatra to come over because they had um what had happened was a group of Italian fans kind of adopted Franco as you know the Italian army, and they had this whole thing they would uh they would put like a curse on the other team.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: They had like the little bad Juju thing.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole NFL films thing on it, it's pretty funny.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: He he would put bad juju on the other team, and like they would bring like hoagies in the three-river stadium and sneak wine in.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was a whole whole wild thing.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the the wildest thing they did was they got Frank Sinatra, who was of course Italian and you know, famously Italian, I guess, to come over and uh you know, say hi to Franco, and they gave him like a little helmet where it says you know, Franco's Italian army.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just just pretty all in good fun.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had like different divisions, they had like you know, the Israeli division, like people would hang signs in Three River Stadium, you know, it just just really like a fan thing that you know people really got behind and had a lot of fun with.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was definitely like a sign of the the times back then kind of a thing.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: The the the way the Pittsburgh community kind of got behind him and then had all those kind of themed kind of things where they they had the yeah, the Franco's Italian army, and it's funny what you said about like bringing stuff into the stadium.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: You could never do that today, obviously.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they like they literally had have like a whole like almost like row in yeah, inside the stadium.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like stuff you couldn't do today for a hundred, Alex.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um it just just just you know, it sounds like a lot of fun.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's you know, we're this is supposed to be fun, right, Tim?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I think.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, that's the NFL because they they don't often agree.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're all about the money.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, as for his Super Bowl career, um, he has if for his uh 101 carries for 354 yards, he did score four touchdowns, and that's actually the second most in Super Bowl history.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure who has the most rushing yards, but I'm sure they're a really special person.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, Franco, uh, you know, clutch when you needed it, uh good person off the field.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so there were you know, we'll get into some of the um off-the-field stuff momentarily, but as for his career, he finished up his career in was it 83?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 83.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, it kind of ended on a sour note, but we'll just you know, we'll save that for a little later.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: He ended up with 12,120 yards, and that was a 12-year career, and at that point he finished third all-time when he retired.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he uh he fell short of Jim Brown's record, and uh even to this day, he is still the 15th all-time in NFL rushing yards.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that that was that's been over, you know, 30, 40 years since he finished playing, and that's still, you know, very solid.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: He made uh the Pro Bowl six times.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that really counts for anything.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: The Pro Bowl seems to be totally watered down anymore.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there, of course, is you know, when he when in the final year of Franco's career, he held out for more money.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: That seemed to be like an issue in the 80s.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: The owners didn't want to pay, the uh the players wanted more money, and so they held out and um Dan Rooney thought they had a deal.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: He tried to get Mel Blunt to talk to Franco, but because Franco wouldn't practice, and um Franco actually went to Noel's house and they didn't even talk much.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I guess you know Noel, like you know, being the people person that he was, just you know, didn't even try to negotiate at that point.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And after that, uh Noel was very frustrated and uh gave the infamous, you know, they asked, Oh, you know, what are you gonna do about Franco?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, uh, Franco who, which was, you know, very very kind of you know off the cup mark, but you know, it was kind of disrespectful of a fan favorite.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, people like my father who weren't a big Steeler fan, that kind of turned them off, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: The guy that had been loyal, you know, he's asking, you know, to get paid a little bit of money here, and you're gonna just you know, if you don't want to pay him, that's fine, but you don't have to be like necessarily kind of rude.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: This guy did win you four Super Bowls here.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: You probably don't win all those Super Bowls without him.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely don't win Super Bowl nine without Franco, so say what you want about the other ones.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I I don't know if Noel ever talked about it later, but I bet he regretted saying that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: It just wasn't yeah, it you like you said, disrespectful is probably the right word.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like back then, you didn't have any other leverage but to hold out because there was no free agency.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like once you were at the end of your contract, it wasn't like you could go to the highest bidder like you can today.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's really all you could do was say, Man, if if my current team won't pay me more money, then all I can really do is is you know try to leverage for more.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um You know, and and like you said, Steve, if the Steelers, I mean he at that point, 1983, what's that?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: His his 12th, he just completed his 12th.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you don't want to pay him, I get it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: He is getting long in the tooth.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he really he went to Seattle and he really didn't do much.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like Right.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't need many yards to catch, like I don't think he needed many yards to catch Jim Brown, I I don't think.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he st he still didn't because he he got hurt, he was getting hurt a lot.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just all almost.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: How many running backs played 12 seasons?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's insane, especially for a physical guy like him.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So so yeah, so if the Steelers didn't want to pay him and wanted to move on because they had younger guys like Frank Pollard and and Walter Abercrombie, who was like a first round pick, again, totally get that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, totally understand their position, but you don't have to just I think nowadays it would have been handled differently.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been like, well, we wish him well.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, we're just gonna talk about the guys who are here and all that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, he's one of our all-time great players.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: We wish him nothing but the best.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even like like like the penguins have done sometimes, like the guy comes back and they'll play like a tribute on the scoreboard.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like why why does it have to be, you know, they have to why does there have to be animosity?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just that was like Chuck Knowle just being petty at that point.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I love Chuck Knoll, he's great, all-time great, but that was that was not his best moment.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, we all have our bad moments, and unfortunately, I was one of Chuck Knowle's bad ones.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even like I'm trying to think of like when Willie Parker at the end of his career like left to go to Washington, and he even later I did read Willie Parker said, Oh, that was a mistake.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I should have just stayed in Pittsburgh.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't like Mike Tomlin didn't get him and say, Well, Willie Parker, who, or you know, Willie Parker sucks, you know, we're better without him.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, they and they welcome him back.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I think I I imagine he's been back with one of the Super Bowl teams, you know.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: They never, you know.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the same thing happened with Franco.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Franco always came back for all the Super Bowl.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: He he lived in Pittsburgh.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: He never he never really left.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I don't know how hard, if there were any hard feelings, no, maybe it's to tribute to the Franco's, you know, character that he just kind of let bygones be gongs and got over it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the only other thing, Steve, that I can think that even remotely comes close to that was the uh uh Rod Woodson when Tom Donahoe uh had a chance to bring Rod Woodson back and he said we're not the salvation army.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and that rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way, also, because again, here's a guy that has done so much for your franchise.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't want if you don't want him back, just hey, like you said, you know, great, all-time great, we wish him the best elsewhere.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've got we're good at that position, uh whatever, but you don't have to like you, you know.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: But that even wasn't a direct, necessarily like a direct, like, who who's this?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you talking about?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know who that guy is.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the thing by Noel was just so harsh.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: So unfortunate, but like you said, I think everybody everybody got over it pretty quickly.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's a tribute to Franco, probably, because you know, then you have Terry who always seems to hold a grudge against Chuck Knoll, depending.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no, it depends, you know, it depends on what day of the week it is with Terry.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he could love him or hate him, you know, he goes back and forth.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So but anywho, um, so Franco in 1984, like I said, played for Seattle, and um, there's a story of Art Rooney Sr., the chief, was at a family dinner, and I I think he's the one who really who said we didn't win much for him, uh, win much before he he came and after we never lost.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was really upset to see him play for Seattle.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: He was at a dinner and he was watching, you know, watching Franco play, and he just didn't want to see Franco go out like that in the Seattle Seahawks, you know.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is he the most famous Seattle Seahawk running back?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: More than Kurt Warner or Sean Alexander or whoever else to see.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Marshawn Lynch.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they probably had a few that have done more in a Seahawks uniform than Franco did.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think you just named three of them.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But and that was my list of uh Seattle running backs uh that I know.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty good.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I got Kurt Warner in there, which is pretty impressive.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's a Penn State guy too, wasn't he?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was also very good on the original tech mobile.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, he was.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not and it's weird that he has the same name as the other Kurt Warner.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he was Kurt with a C, though.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: C, yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Kurt, not Kurt with a K.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um after after his career, um, you know, he he you know, Franco did all this great stuff, and it it's like almost as epic and his hall of fame as as his uh you know, his playing career.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So like I said, you know, Joe Gillam was the quarterback for the first half of that season.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: He he even Joe Gillam in later interviews said he doesn't remember the Super Bowl because he was you know so messed up in his addictions.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know what?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: He he he went and visited uh you know, Franco went and visited uh Joe Gillam in Nashville and tried to support him and help him out and get him back, you know, to sobriety.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, once again, yeah, this is a guy that didn't really play that long for the Steelers, but um Yeah, it's just a just a shame that you know Joe never did really get over them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Franco, once again, a tribute to his character, you know, caring for people more than just you know winning football.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a story of when uh Mike Webster, if you remember Mike Webster, got him really bad dementia and such from the concussions he had received playing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: He he actually and I think Mike Webster like really like financially was in trouble late in his later in life.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: He actually gave him just wrote him a check.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's five grand.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, you know, you need some help.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um now, I mean, this is maybe more controversial, but this kind of speaks to like when when Franco and I think this is like kind of like turned some people off on Franco.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was very loyal to Joe Paterno during the Jerry Sandusky scandal.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um but I think he didn't think Paterno knew what was going on.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um actually you know and he was you know people would say well he's just there was no personal cost.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: It really was um Franco lost a sponsorship with the Meadows casino over it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when I I will say that when Franco believed in something he was not afraid to just you know stick with it and pay the consequences and um you know right or wrong you know he was loyal to Joe and you know you could debate whether Joe knew or how much Joe knew or I mean how much more Joe should have done but um in Franco's case he was loyal to the university and um to the to Joe Paterno, you know the late Joe Paterno.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I I uh I agree with you that I think that that um was probably not a great look for Franco.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean well it hurt his image it hurt his image for sure.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being annoyed with him for a little but like Franco's that type of person though like I think his character you is you know what I mean?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah like if it was Antonio Brown you'd be like oh here's another thing Antonio Brown.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: But this guy it's like well you know this is what he believed like you feel like it's a sincerely held belief and he doesn't think he didn't think Joe was involved he was Joe wasn't involved in the scandal.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Joe tried to cover it up but I don't maybe he should have called the media maybe he should have done something else I I don't know.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: No I I think he should have done a lot more but but without getting into that I think that like the the yes thinking the Franco he he he was loyal and it cost him and once you were his friend you were his friend for life.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right like it it Joe Paterno was his mentor Joe Paterno made him what he was he wasn't going to turn his back on Joe now did he need to like come out and so publicly defend him carrying around like a cardboard cutout of Paterno and everything that that was a little over the top.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't he sitting in like a a box or something at one of the Penn State games and he had like a cardboard cutout because remember they took away Joe Paterno's wins.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they and they took down the statue too and I think that's why he was carrying the cardboard like it's one thing to come out publicly and be like look um all I know is that you know this is a great man and blah blah blah and and I have nothing but I'm never going to say anything bad about the man.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's one thing to make a statement like that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when he carried on and on like that, the reason I think it wasn't a good look is because you had real actual victims in this whole disgusting mess that happened at Penn State.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're making Joe Paterno into the victim the way he he kind of carried it on like that it just like I said that wasn't a good look because now you're basically saying oh I'm sorry the victim was was the guy that was in charge of the whole program that's the victim in this and that's that's why I think it was a bad look.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said when when you were Franco's friend he was going to be loyal and so you do have to admire that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then Steve I think you make a really good point too like Franco had built up enough goodwill that yes that wasn't a good look and yes I think like you said annoyed was probably the word with a lot of people but also knowing Franco's character understanding where his heart was coming from you couldn't like hate him for that right he waits he throws the pass and it's interesting 30 30 30 Steelers vs Ravens is the best rivalry in all of Pro Sports and now that series has been chronicled in Pittsburgh vs Baltimore the unofficial history an all-new book from the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast relive all the fierce battles and exciting moments from this amazing rivalry.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: There were legendary plays like Troy Polomalu's Pick Sticks and the Immaculate Extension and there were crazy incidents like Joey Porter chasing Ray Lewis into the parking lot or the Ravens putting a bounty on Heinz Ward.
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• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Find it on Amazon or see the link in the show description of this episode and thanks for supporting the podcast well moving on to other things uh he was heavily involved in philanthropy um he actually started a company called Super Bakery which they actually sell this thing called the Super Donut and I've actually had it it's like for institutional use and um it's kind of interesting you know it's a frozen donut and I didn't realize he had started that company until like I started researching it and I was like oh I know what a super donut is but um super donuts aside um probably one of the most things that I'd for I remember this happening but I'd forgotten until you know people had mentioned it in 1997 um do you remember where you were in 1997 right I was in college yeah so you were in the city at this time do you remember when the KKK decided that they decided it was a great idea to stop parading around Tennessee and Georgia and bring it to western Pennsylvania do you remember that?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I do it was a quite the controversy.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was a d well it's like freedom of speech and you know even if we don't agree with it you know we gotta put up with it and put up with is probably the best way to describe that kind of insanity.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the courts ruled that you know it is the First Amendment and you are allowed to you know say speech we don't like even you know so they go down in front of the courthouse and the KKK is going to have this big rally and there's going to be all this fun racist crap going on that's just going to antagonize you know everybody and their brother.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so Franco being the stand-up person he is he went down there before because like they had they had like a big court ruling the city had fought not to have it but the city lost and that I think that week or that day like they hadn't come yet like they hadn't set a date yet Franco came and was gonna sit in like have you ever been to the city council began there's like that there's the entrance and then there's like this like I don't know what you would call like porch area he was literally going to sit he brought a book a blanket and everything he was going to sit in that area and not let them come and like it was such a scandal like the mayor came out mayor Murphy like everybody's trying to talk him out of it and I don't know it's one of the I'm gonna say like the Steelers head of public relations came down and talked to him and he just was so like once again like when Franco believed in something or was loyal to someone he was not afraid this is what employs me like a lot of people say a lot of stuff but when times get tough like I'm out I'm out this guy money where his mouth is every time you could count on it and he went down there and obviously Franco was biracial and so you know and he he had a placard when he was down there say keep America you know no to Nazis and um he actually had a personal you know stake in this that his uncle on his mother's side had been killed in World War II by the Nazis so he was no stranger to you know this type of racism you know and um actually so Dan Rooney came down to talk about of the sit-in and the compromise that and then once again this is like two of our like you know it's hard to believe these guys were never elected never any officials but I would call Dan Rooney and Franco Harris two of our you know civic leaders am I not wrong here too that's a good description.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and they agreed to have a counter protest which they did in Point State Park and Franco went to that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: So once again like cooler heads prevailed and Dan and Franco you know had this counterpressed I remember the protest came they had to put up fencing the county police on horseback were there it was a complete mess.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't allowed to my I was gonna go down there and like you know just start a ruckus with the racist people but uh my dad told me no I wasn't allowed.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think your dad probably made the right call there yeah I probably would have got myself arrested uh I mean because that's just I don't know.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Also I don't think you were going to convince anybody of anything.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: No I just would have made things worse and you know you know violence for with answering violence with violence is just creates more violence.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know throwing a brick at a you know person like that might feel good for 30 seconds but you're gonna spend a couple days in jail probably for that.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which is what what that was my plan was like you know I don't if it's I really I literally wanted to I was like it's just just go somewhere else go go back to whatever hellhole you came from and leave leave my you know because it's like you know I've lived in the I lived in the city for you know all my life and it's like I just these are my neighbors these are people I live with the people I interact with and it's just not fair to them they should be allowed to live here in peace and not be bothered by it is just because you know they didn't choose to be this you know that's just how it is so there we go.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the after school special part of our podcast yeah I mean like you said such an emotionally charged thing uh and so many people were upset rightly so that that they were coming here and you know but like you said like Franco wasn't like like today something like that happens and everybody's like I gotta do something I'll log on to Twitter and I'll type out a tweet and I'll argue with other people.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: No he was going to go down there and literally sit in the freeze cold I don't I think this was in the summer so maybe it wasn't cold but still out in the cold with the bugs and like he kind of he did he had like a little bit of protection from that roof area but it was you know he brought a book and everything he was he was ready to go.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: He was yeah and like you said like you said before about the Petrano thing like even if you don't agree with everything he did and that one was I think one that everybody probably agreed with it's kind of a no-brainer on that one.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: But still even if even if you didn't agree with his politics or his views on certain things um he was a a person of principle and I think that the world needs more people like that today for sure it would be nice it would be yeah yeah instead of keyboard warriors I guess it's easier to be a keyboard warrior than it's very easy to be a keyboard warrior you just type on your keyboard and then you and then you clap back at people that disagree with you and then you post a meme that supports your side and then you know you you you go away happy I guess I I don't know I don't think those people are happy because but yeah but that's what that's what people tend to do and then even even people like you said that are elected to be civic leaders are often people that are out for personal gain more than they are for principle.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody like like Franco and like you said Dan Rooney also just man like I said the world needs more people like that regardless of whether you agreed with everything they said the world just needs people who believe in what they say and and then also um are willing to to stand up for those principles without you know throwing bricks for example ill advised my my uh how old I would have been my 21 year old self was thinking like a person that was 21.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: If my father was a little older and a little wiser and actually been the war uh knew that was a bad idea so kudos to dad there for uh steering me in the right direction and kudos to Franco for steering us in the right direction you know to you know what we can have our own protest and you know and be positive you know and welcome these people instead of being jerks yeah yeah and that was actually a great idea right why not have a counter protest and like you said counter instead of countering like you said violence with violence counter violence with love and and you know show kind of a different side to that so very cool.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So continues with Franco's legacy um there was always getting back on the field here um running out of bounds this was all this has been a thing I've heard a million times um it's mainly because Jim Brown criticized Franco in an interview for running out of bounds and not taking extra hits like Jim Brown did who retired at the peak of his you know whatever uh um uh to his uh defense uh Ray Villapano the Raiders linebacker um said anybody who said he was soft needs to go tackle him a few times um Franco actually for his credit said uh once again Franco being classy he said uh he was fine with what Jim Brown said he said you know in he said if the Steelers needed short yardage he got short yardage because normally if you watch the runs he's run out of bounds he's gotten like 15 20 yards or he's gotten the first down it's like so you know do you really need that extra yard just to punish a defensive back or whatever you know so I mean I guess that really wasn't his uh his game was just running people over and that's probably why he played 12 years in the league and you know other running backs didn't yeah I the that criticism was kind of ridiculous.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sports Illustrated years later they did like a an overrated underrated issue and they had like NFO running backs careers and they they said Franco's was overrated because he used to run out of bounds and Freeman McNeil for the Jets who you know very few people would put in the same class as like Franco he was he was underrated you know I mean whatever like that like I hate that kind of stuff of I I hate the like um sort of like retconning a player's career because you know you decided later on.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I don't know if that was a big deal during his career but it certainly was afterwards that he ran out of bounds.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like well yeah and he played for 12 years.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the the Steelers got more out of him playing a long career than they would have of him gaining an extra yard here and there.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I think I think with your like you know retconning which I just had to look up because I didn't know what it meant.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like revisionist history I think we used to call it you know back because I'm old.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just when remember when the Steelers had that undefeated season going was that COVID year yeah and like people would go back and do that like well they beat this team they didn't have a quarterback.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well this team sucked well you know they beat that team because they were on a short week and it's like dude what happened happened you know no amount of you know you trying to spin it you're not adding like it's one thing to add context it's one thing to try in what would you say like belittle or make light of the achievement and that seems to be yeah there I think there's a difference between adding context and you know basically trying to redefine what has happened.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah that's a that's a good that's a good way to put it and that's kind of what we but remember we're kind of like now in the era of like hot takes.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right and like adding context doesn't get you clicks or attention.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well I think George Orwell said it best he who controls the past can he who controls the present controls the past and who controls the past controls the future.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're doing.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's Orwellian saying Franco ran out of bounds is Orwellian maybe maybe that was a little much but okay I'll go with it.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hot take speaking of hot takes um you know um Joe Green said um Franco was like what Joe Green meant for the defense Franco meant for the offense and that's what uh Jack Hamm had said he said you know it was the heart and soul and the person that all made it click he what other accomplishments Steelers first playoff win he's definitely solely responsible for there.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I that's not like first playoff win of the 1970s.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's first playoff win in team history correct yeah yeah that's it there were no before 1972 the Steelers had never won a playoff game.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Correct but anyway um back to that quote art Rooney the chief said he was like the Battle of Midway for historical reference.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: If if you don't know the Battle of Midway is the turning point in the Pacific War, World War II where it's like yo, you had Pearl Harbor the Japanese are going to Coral Sea, Solomon Islands, they're winning all these battles they literally have half the Pacific Ocean at this point.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if the Japanese would have won the Battle of Midway right now Tim and I would probably do our podcast in Japanese.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But they didn't and the United States basically won every battle after Midway to finally we decided to drop some sort of a big bomb on a couple other cities and they cried uncle um so Franco the same kind of thing you know like I said when Franco before Franco arrived the Steelers had not won a playoff game really hadn't had very many winning seasons nothing of any note after Franco arrives they win four Super Bowls how many playoff games divisions they win divisions they win everything.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't think the Steelers had even out won their division even back when they just had the you know the two divisions in the old NFL so correct you know it you know they they had um never had a they never had a losing season with him from nineteen seventy two to nineteen eighty three and they made the playoffs ten times and won the Super Bowl four times um and just just for more cultural impact on Pittsburgh um the stat there's a statue at the airport and the three people on the statues can you name the two other people besides Franco that he's that this this is how much we think of Franco and this is just so funny.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's George Washington and Nelly Bly Nelly Bly that's it yeah so it's literally George Washington the founder of the country guy who fought the French and Indian War you know all that good stuff in the United Pennsylvania Nelly Bly and Franco Harris catching and it's him an action of him catching the um the I Immaculate Reception.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um unfortunately they were all set up to have a great you know retirement of Franco's number and this was what two years ago year or two ago?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was on the 50th anniversary so yeah it was 2022.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and Franco unfortunately it was a big week too like Franco was gonna it was gonna be all Franco all the week and uh unfortunately that week Franco passed away very suddenly no one you know just just weird and um yeah it was a very sad moment.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: The of course the Steelers still did beat the Raiders and a last second comeback in that game.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe the spirit of Franco helped us out there a little bit but um they retired his number and um you know with a you know a legend legend past and um you know somebody that you know is very you know influential in our community not just on the field but off the field and um probably an example of a very good person that you know good to emulate good you know good person to talk about and um I I never really saw him play personally um I did I knew him more of after the fact you know you could run into my father ran into him at least once or twice down on north side he was very he would just you know just he was a member of the community he was a Pittsburger through and through and um you know God bless him for that any any any good Franco memories there Tim Yeah I was I was a little too young to really remember watching him play either but like you said he like he always you know some guys retired and then you just never kind of hear from them again.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like like Jack Lambert was one of those guys.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think he lives in Ohio or I don't know when was the last time you heard from Jack and I think that's the way Jack Lambert wants it it's not like anybody's disinterest yeah but but um Franco was one of those guys and Franco wasn't on TV like Terry Bradshaw you heard from for the next 40 years because he's on TV he's on reality shows he's in movies but Franco was like like you said he was just part of Pittsburgh and so he never really went away and um man there's there's just so few people who are more respected in in Pittsburgh sports history than Franco was right I mean he's got to be like at the top of that list of just respect.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I say outside of maybe Jerome Bettis or Mario Lemieux or trying to think of somebody else Joe Green.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: guys like that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but but the but again it's a short list really yeah yeah I it's just yeah just one of those pillars of the community and um good person all around well that's it for Franco we're gonna thank you for listening.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for tuning in uh if you enjoy our podcast uh keep liking us keep uh tuning us in on all the uh podcast services you can listen to check us out on Facebook uh we do a great job of posting stuff there hopefully we'll post more in the uh in the near future uh I'm sure there'll be tons of fun stuff coming up there on Twitter and Instagram too and uh thank you for tuning in and Black Blood