Latest / Arizona Unscripted / Episode 27: 🌵 Arizona Unscripted - Chat with Brian Matlock - Role of a State Mine Inspector!
Transcript
- Arizona Unscripted: Yeah. Welcome to Arizona Unscripted. Our podcast is a way to reach people where they live. It's about Arizona people, places, events, and local issues. We present local conversations by local voices focused on local impact. We counter we try to counter misinformation and build community dialogue. And build a space for respectful human conversation. With a with that, grab a coffee, a cold beer, and enjoy the conversation. And now I'll turn it over to my co-hosts, Diane and Catherine. Hey Jim. So good to be here with you all today. We also have Daniel from Graham and Joan from Lake Havasu with us and Katherine. I'm gonna turn it over to you to introduce our special guest today. Thank you so much. I am really happy to be here this afternoon. And it's nice to have a day that's not super sunny. We've had some nice clouds. I took a walk this afternoon and there was actually raindrops falling on me. So it ri it's it's wonderful that the weather is changing a little bit here in Arizona. We're finally getting a little bit of fall. I'm so pleased today to introduce our guest. Brian Matlock is the candidate nominated by the Democratic Party for State Mine Inspector. I've learned a bit since talking to Brian about the mine inspector position. And I think he said that Arizona is one of the few states, if not the only state, where we elect our mine inspector. So we're really looking forward to hearing what you have to say today. Welcome, Brian. Well, thank you so much. Yes, we are the only state that elects a state mine inspector. And it's so incredible. Yeah, it's amazing when you think about it that we're asking the people to make this super important decision. So, Brian, will you tell us a little bit about the office of the state mine inspector and what the job entails? Yeah, sure. ⁓ I say, it's the only ⁓ we're the only state that makes this an elected position, and it is a statewide position. So ⁓ first to get into this role to even make a run at it, you have to go out and collect signatures. And ⁓ here in Arizona, that means I have to collect the same amount of signatures as the governor, secretary of state, and so on, which was six thousand seven hundred and sixty-one. And we were successful at doing that. We were way over the top, which is really good news. So then after that, of course, we win the primary. ⁓ there I was run un I was running uncontested, so that's how I became the Democratic candidate. So now matter of ⁓ actually running and and becoming the state mine inspector. And so let's get there, what does the state mine inspector do? Well Arizona basically the my state mine inspector enforces Arizona's mining statutes. And as an enforcer ⁓ it's really not a gotcha job. It's not that at all. So I like to break it down into ⁓ three basic areas that the mine inspector focuses on as far as the the state legislature has it all laid out for us. That is the first part is safety. And then that's exactly what you think it is. It's about, you know, ⁓ identifying when you wear your PPE, personal protective equipment, hard hat, glasses, and then that sort of thing. Talks about ⁓ everything that it's that's around ⁓ keeping a miner safe when they do their job. And it's not just the the clothing and you know wearing gloves. But it's also like there's a lot of things that go on in a mining operation that ⁓ require cyanide, for example, for processing. ⁓ it's how you those processing facilities are set up and how they're maintained and how they're safe. ⁓ it's about explosives, which you as you can imagine is pretty popular in mining. Anywhere from ⁓ making sure you have signs up saying no smoking around explosives, which is a really good law. ⁓ Yeah, that's that's probably a good idea. Absolutely. Let's hope that that wasn't worked the hard way, right? And then it's also about like w when they we store explosives is called a magazine. And it's also about how that building is constructed. That's all part of the safety portion ⁓ of the ⁓ mine inspector's job as I see it. And so I see the mine inspector basically being a ⁓ partner in safety with the mines. Like I say, this isn't a gotcha job. ⁓ so it's about actually working with the miners, it's about working with the mining companies. Basically, as an addition to their safety team and making sure that at the end of a hard day's work, our miners go home without injury or distress. So in that case, that's why I say it's it's a partner in safety. The next big area that the mine inspector is involved with is abandoned mines. And here in Arizona, we have almost one or we have more than a hundred thousand abandoned mines. Wow. And ⁓ more than five hundred of those are abandoned uranium mines, and most of those are up in the ⁓ sovereign land. So In that case, I see the mine inspector as being a leader in safety. So I'm going kind of move the ⁓ uranium mines off to one side for this part of the conversation and talk about the other ones. ⁓ it's a lot of these are ones where I like to joke. I know ⁓ you know it's about somebody going out and with a funny mustache like me and digging a hole in the ground and thinking they're gonna find some some gold and then leaving this big hole. And ⁓ they are extraordinarily dangerous. And in the first 10 years of this century, BLM reported that more than four hundred people died in those mines. And about 150 more were severely injured. And and what strikes me about that particular statistic is that if you go into one of these abandoned mines, ⁓ you're more likely to die than just be severely injured if something goes wrong. ⁓ so that kind of puts a you know a frame around it. So identifying when I w when I say I want to be a partner in and in this case I want to be a leader in safety. It it what I want to do is I want to partner with people that enjoy the backcountry. I'm a mountain biker and a boondocker. I want to partner with people like me, not only to go out and find them and and mark them, but also work with the community to s to ⁓ secure those mines. ⁓ kind of like you know, we do highway cleanups together. we go out and we fill sandbags and we help our neighbors when their times are tough. You know, I think we can do a similar type thing with ⁓ securing these mines. In fact, when I was just out in Mojave County recently, After talking to folks, ⁓ a fellow from a four-wheel drive community came up and says, you know what? When we find these mines, we put barbed wire around them. And once you get elected, let's work together and see if we can do more. So I know that there's a desire within the community to participate in these programs so that we can get these secured once and for more once and for all. And then the other big portion of the mine inspector's job, it kind of bookends ⁓ the mining operation on a beginning and end. So the first time the mine inspector actually becomes involved with a mine, and when I talk about mines. ⁓ that's any type of a mine that has ⁓ at least 50 people working there. So ⁓ first time a mine inspector gets involved with that is after the mine is permitted. And once it's been permitted, then the mine inspector is involved with approving the reclamation plan and making sure that there's money there to to follow through with that reclamation. And then on the other end of the when the mine plays out and it's and it's over with, then it's the mine inspector's job. to ⁓ prove that the work got done or and not and just guide ⁓ the the final reclamation. So in that case, ⁓ mine inspector is more of a judge. So it's a partner in safety at the beginning, you know, in one context, it's a leader in safety in another context, and then it's a judge in another context. So you mentioned the ⁓ rate of people being hurt and even killed. Was that for the state of Arizona or for the United States as a whole? I I think it's probably more as the United States as a whole. ⁓ but to kind of put that in some context is, you know, I would imagine that the more ⁓ abandoned mines you have, ⁓ the more likely it is for people to be injured in ⁓ And when I was researching abandoned mines early in my campaign, I learned that, you know, Illinois, ⁓ I was actually looking at a ⁓ reclamation of abandoned mines. And Illinois was struggling with ⁓ managing six thousand of ⁓ So you can compare the difference when we have over a hundred thousand. That it's dramatically different here. And so the people who are becoming injured or killed, are those people just ⁓ are they working at the mine or are they just people out there in the in the outdoors trying to enjoy themselves or are they workers, actually workers in the mines? But but I think because it's considered an abandoned mine that those would probably be mostly ⁓ tourists and outdoors people that are have ⁓ have made a bad decision. And what I like to tell people on that is this, you know, particularly if you're familiar with Arizona's ⁓ geography, if you're out there trying to dig in this or geology, if you're out there trying to dig in this stuff, it's hard to dig in. I mean, I I've swung a pickaxe at the ground and seen sparks fly rather than dig a hole. And so if somebody's dug a hole like that that hard and put that much effort into it and walked away, ⁓ There's clearly nothing interesting in there for you. Yeah. Hey Bri Brian. I I have a question for you. This is John. ⁓ is there a method or a way to find those abandoned mines? How how does that actually work? So my plan is ⁓ number one, working with people that are coming across them, right? Because if you come across them, that means if you find one, somebody else is. So those are going to be priority ones that we need to get out there and fix. There are some records that you can find online ⁓ and those are kind of sketchy. Today's, if you go out and you drop a ⁓ pin and you look at the the the GPS coordinates, it carries it out like eight decimal places. A lot of the old BLM documents about where abandoned mines are, they're only within three decimal places. And I've you know ridden my ridden my bike out to one of those pin points and I find myself, you know, on a road somewhere. There's no mine anywhere nearby. So you know you're probably within a thousand feet. ⁓ so some of those old documents aren't so good. But another important way I think that would be useful is that is because we do have enthusiasts, and that would be social sleuthing and you know, looking through Facebook, looking through YouTube and some of these other social platforms where people are talking about their experience or explorations of those mines and reaching out to them and and seeking help and closing those up because of those risks. Brian, where's some of the biggest lump mines in Arizona? Well, ⁓ Morency ⁓ is claims to be the largest mine in ⁓ in in the United States. Of course, if you go up to East Salt Lake City, Kennicott might claim the same. So Morency is probably the largest or is the largest in Arizona. Then we have the Copper Corridor, which would be from ⁓ right around superior down south to San Manuel in that area. We have several ⁓ mines through there. As well as ⁓ if you head northeast from there, you'll run into ⁓ Pinto Valley and so forth. So that there's kind of a cluster there. Then we get down south of Tucson and you'll run into a a number of mines ⁓ as from ⁓ there's a new one coming online ⁓ at ⁓ World Copper in the San Rita Mountains Mountains, as well as ⁓ there's some older mines run by Grupo Mexico and ⁓ Freeport MacMaran along ⁓ I-19 down through there. Then you get deeper down in the ⁓ towards Patagonia, there's another new underground mine there coming online. And then ⁓ up north, northeast, we have Baghdad, which is another freeport property, a very large mine on the what's kind of ⁓ I guess you'd say it's ⁓ southeast ⁓ sort of of of Kingman. And then there's also a uranium mine up there. So they're kind of scattered all over the co all over the state, but you do find the big ones ⁓ kind of clustered together, which kind of makes sense. Are most of them copper mines? So when we talk about mines, ⁓ when we're talking that size, yes. ⁓ but when we also talk about mines, ⁓ let's not forget that there's a lot of aggregate and stone that we use for construction, and those also fit into the ⁓ mine inspector's role. So ⁓ probably the majority of mines that'll be inspected are gonna be have more with construction materials than the copper. ⁓ they're smaller in size, but more ⁓ higher, you know, larger numbers of them. Yeah, I have another question. What what about ⁓ are there any ⁓ rare earth mines that are happening in Arizona? Is that a a possibility? I read some, but I'm sorry, I don't have a definitive answer for you on that. ⁓ I know that's something that Arizona being so rich in minerals, ⁓ that's something that's being explored. And there may be some that I don't know of. but I I I can't give you good information on it because I haven't researched it in depth. But I know that's a definitely a ⁓ a growing ⁓ industry here in Arizona. Hey Daniel, you have a question for Brian. Yeah, I don't think I've heard you talk about the history of this, but Have you looked into why Arizona has a statewide elected when position when no one else does? And is that in our constitution or is it just The way it is. ⁓ it's in our constitution, and that's the way it is. I'm having fun with you there. I'm having fun with you there. ⁓ I I don't have I I I can't tell you that I've gone through the history books to to chase it all through, but having a social media presence as ⁓ running for state mine inspector, that question's come up a lot. And ⁓ what seems to be the prevailing answer is that back when Arizona was becoming a ⁓ state. That there was a ⁓ some push and pull between unions and operators and a compromise was having the mine inspector be an elected role. ⁓ That makes sense. So I got a question. You you said that you were a ⁓ you ride dirt bikes and you're a boondocker. What the heck is boondocking? ⁓ no, I don't ride dirt bikes, I ride mountain bikes. ⁓ mountain bikes. Excuse me. Excuse me. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah, big difference, I guess. No move. A lot slower. A lot slower. A boondocker is just ⁓ we we go out, we cold camp. We know we go out, ⁓ like we've been down in your area, been out there to ⁓ Kofa and go out in the wilderness there and ⁓ just find a ⁓ a place where we have we have a small like the smallest teardrop camper you can get with a bathroom and ⁓ We hunker down and we would basically all off grid ⁓ camping and boondocking sounds cool. Yes, it does sound pretty cool. That's why I had to know what it is. So another question that I have is what is your role as far as environmental protections goes? Yeah, that that's ⁓ something ⁓ Arizona's legislature is really ⁓ good about making sure everybody stays in their lane. So I'm gonna st it's gonna sound like a little bit of a diversion at first, but then I'll come back. So bear with me on that. ⁓ so when the mines are permitted, it's ADEQ that deals with ⁓ Arizona Department of Environmental Quality that deals with all those environmental issues at the point of permitting. ⁓ the place that the mine inspector has some direct involvement with what would be considered an environmental issue would be ⁓ what happens with flooding or drainage of water and things like that that happened due to the mining operations. So there is some involvement there and there's some involvement with dust that's created from the mining operations. There is a limited area where we might consider that an environmental issue, but of course, dust is also a ⁓ a hazard for for breathing ⁓ for the miners. So it's also a safety issue. So to bring it back around, the the way I see it as being your public servant, that I should know when I go to those mines what the expectation is from ADEQ for water management and other issues that they've permitted the site to ⁓ to do or what they're allowed to do. And if I, as my regular ins through, you know, when I say IOS through the offices inspections, we recognize that there might be something that's in violation of those ADEQ ⁓ guidelines or ⁓ requirements. Then I see it's the mine inspector's role to reach out to ADEQ on behalf of the the public and say, Hey, we we seem to have observed this and then work with the ADEQ and and and be the ⁓ the public's ⁓ face to ADEQ in those ⁓ circumstances. I got another question. ⁓ as a kid, when I used to hunt up in the Chirikawas, I didn't s run into as many basically just a mine, and there it is, the hole in front of you. Was the ones that spooked me were the vertical shafts. So I'm were those pri probably primarily ventilation shafts. How common would a vertical shaft B versus a horizontal one. Well I I guess it depends on what kind of mining technique they're using. They could be a ventilation shaft and that could have been the axis that they go down to get to where the ore is before they start moving laterally. I I've run into those two on occasion and ⁓ I I think it's just, you know, I don't know that there's a one size fits all for those. So it could be a one or both. So they're just following the vein. Absolutely. Versus tear down, take the whole mountain and sort it out once it's down. Absolutely. So one of the things that we're reined into here in Arizona is there's the ⁓ eighteen seventy two mining act, which is a federal thing, right? And there's lots of, you know, that that kind of controls a lot of what ⁓ ADEQ UQ can ADEQ can do as far as mining on federal lands and that sort of thing. But since you brought up the vein thing, I just find this is an interesting one. ⁓ one of the things that it talks about is like if you're a miner and I'm a miner and we're both chasing a vein and we have our our claims, ⁓ it's that act that tells us that if your vein and my vein runs into each other, which one of us gets the intersection? And ⁓ so that we don't shoot at each other to figure out who gets what's there. And then if there is an intersection, then I gotta continue on the other side and you get to keep going your direction. But if it turns out that's a why, then if you're there first as having your claim in, that's yours and I'm done. So it's kind of a it's some interesting reading when you go through the eighteen seventy-two Mining Act on some of those ⁓ topics. I bet there's some fights over that kind of stuff, huh? I imagine so. So Brian, what brought you to being interested in this position? I I find it absolutely fascinating. Well, you know, having a ⁓ a background in mining, ⁓ I got started ⁓ when I was working at a foundry ⁓ with ⁓ co ⁓ with coal mining and then just getting deeper into it. ⁓ you just kind of get ⁓ you know enamored sort of with the you know, particularly if you like the big equipment and w everything that's going on around the mining. It it can be very ⁓ it's exciting. So then ⁓ I became a ⁓ a precinct committee person in Pinell County. And ⁓ we have the ⁓ C E B V, the ⁓ citizens involvement beyond voting type training. And as you're as I was sitting through those classes, ⁓ when we share backgrounds, we talked more about the ⁓ state mine inspector. And I knew it had existed, but I really didn't study it much. And my folks, when they were living here, they always used to joke when the election came around, hey son, we wrote you in. So I I think it's kind of funny that I'm actually running now. ⁓ so we got to talking about it and ⁓ I sp in in I believe that every election should be a contest. And so I looked into it and felt that number one, it interests me. It's something I would love to do. I like working with the min miners. ⁓ I I have a ⁓ a very strong safety bend in my in the way I do things. So that fits me very well. And then when I started researching ⁓ whether things were getting done, it was kind of hard to find out whether there was actually the mining ⁓ that But the expectations of the legislature and the people were actually being fulfilled. And so I decided, you know, this is a great opportunity for me to figure out how I want to finish out my career. And ⁓ there there's a kind of a story. ⁓ we were at a house party down in Yuma, and we were riding back, and my wife I was telling my wife a story about ⁓ a fella asked me, Where do you get the courage to run for ⁓ a statewide position? And ⁓ she looked at me and she said, Did you tell him you don't think things through? And The the reality is running for a statewide position is very big. And, you know, as much as you think you can plan for it, ⁓ it's a lot bigger than that. ⁓ but ⁓ it's been a great ride. But what got us started was that the C E B V and before you know, and before a precinct committee person was just working the phones for save our schools and it's just kind of a slippery slope from there. Yeah. Well, one thing I absolutely love about you, we were talking a little bit before the podcast started. is I'm involved with counties all across the state and people absolutely love you. And it's not even a partisan thing, right? I mean, you've got people from all parties, even some people that aren't registered to vote, although we hope they all get registered to vote. ⁓ but they see you as genuine and knowledgeable and that you really care about this position. And I really love to see that because I think we've had enough. And we're ready for you know having somebody that we feel really represents all of us. So I'm really grateful for you for running and for being all across the state and showing up at fairs and house parties and all of the different things to help educate people about this position. If people are interested in going out there and helping to identify these. abandoned mines. Do you have like contact information that you can share with us that we can put with a podcast when we get that out there so people can reach out and have conversations to you about that? So ⁓ first I would say if you come across abandoned mine, like I had mentioned earlier, do not go in and definitely regardless of whether I'm the ⁓ state mine inspector or not, please reach out to the mine inspector's office and let them know what you found. So at least they're aware of it, regardless of how this goes. Then to reach out to me directly and say, Brian, you know, once you get in, because I'm voting for you and I'm gonna vote like all those other people are voting for you, and you will be the state line inspector, and we want to get a jump and be first in line to help you close these, you can reach out to my campaign at Matlock, M-A-T-L-O-C-K for F-O-R-A-Z-M-I dot com. That's Matlock for A-Z-M I dot com. Matlock like the TV show. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that information. I I know every time that we have had you out or had you on one of our programs, people are so fascinated about it and want more information. So thank you. Joan, I see that you've got a question for Brian. Yes, I do. ⁓ first of all, I want to say thank you for being here last Wednesday at our ⁓ candidate forum. That was fantastic. You were you were very impressive. Up there on the stage. ⁓ this the question I had though is I I understand that there are laws and rules that you ⁓ would be applying. ⁓ how easy is it to enforce those rules? How you know, how does that work? Well, enforcing rules is always difficult, right? So I think first thing you have to be is you have to be an honest broker and you have to build trust with the folks that you're working with. And they have to understand ⁓ that ⁓ Oversight doesn't have to be a burden. And that, ⁓ particularly when we're talking on the safety side, that ⁓ look at the mine inspector's office as a as a partner in safety. And I know it I used to, you know, it's one of those hard things to believe that you know can walk into a mine say and say, Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. ⁓ but this is truly one of those one of those opportunities. So I I think it's about building trust. ⁓ I'm an engineer. And ⁓ as an engineer, I've worked my probably my entire career of having lots of responsibility with no authority. And so there's a lot of ⁓ if if you talk common sense and what you're putting forward is common sense and when we're talking about safety, ⁓ that even benefits mine operators. ⁓ because when something goes sideways, if they l injure an employee, they put effort into training that employee, the the the mine operators are run by people. And nobody likes to see people get hurt. You know, that's just not in any of our DNA when we're out there working. So I believe that from my context, knowing particularly that this is not a gotcha, a a gotcha type of a ⁓ an office, that ⁓ I would like to really work on the idea of being open and trustwort and trustful, even to the point of ⁓ I want to have part of my plan is to have a a mine inspector's app. Because one of the things that I want to track is ⁓ what's called a near miss. And so ⁓ it there's no harm, no foul. It's very ⁓ very minor, you know, something that you could almost forget about. And that's what I'm worried about when it happens. It happens at nine in the morning, but eight o'clock when you get home, you've forgotten about it and you don't record it. So if we had an app that would allow things like a near miss to be recorded, ⁓ for example, amongst other things, ⁓ there's a ⁓ it's been shown that if You have enough near misses, you're gonna have an incident. You have enough incidents, you're gonna have a lost time incident. You have enough of those, something tragic can happen. So if we can figure out what's causing the near misses, we can gradually whittle down the tragedies on the other side. So that's where the trust comes in. ⁓ when it comes to trying to work with getting people to to ⁓ follow the guidelines. And they have to be good guidelines, practical guidelines. Yeah. It's a great appreciate your efforts because we wanna bring all our people home. safely. ⁓ the mine tragedies affect a whole community and the whole state. So thank you for being willing to throw yourself into the ring and do what you can to keep our state and our people safe. It's very appreciated. I got one more burning question. Do they make wide brim hard hats? They do. But they really, really, really need a black hat there, dude. No, I bet it's a way right. Yeah, I have one of my j that's right. We're just doing audio. I'm sorry. I have one that I can wear and it's actually got the ⁓ headlight on the t on the front of it, and that's actually my favorite. And one of the reasons that's my favorite is ⁓ because ⁓ it has the earmuffs built into the brim. ⁓ so w one of the challenges that it's always bothered me is you turn your head over to look over something, you gotta hold your hard hat on. Yeah. ⁓ I mean there are more modern ones now that are more like what rock climbers wear, that they do stay on your head. But traditionally what miners wear are those wide brims and I like having the earmuffs that help keep my hat the hat on my head. That's awesome. I love that. ⁓ you heard it here first, people. ⁓ well, thank you so much, Brian, for being here with us today. It truly was a joy and pleasure to have you here. Well, thank you so much. Yes. I look forward to it. ⁓ that that's a big part of what I want to do once I'm elected is make sure that the community feels comfortable with what's going on out there. And ⁓ it's been a pleasure to to chat with you. and like I say, regardless of how this works out, this has been a wonderful ride as a candidate working through the entire state and meeting so many wonderful people. We are going for the win, Brian. We're gonna manifest that win. All right, thank you, sir. Thanks, Brian. Thank you. Take care. Have great evening. Thank you.