Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #517 Reborn: Patrick Rogowski, "My Story, How I Walked Through the Valley of Darkness, and God Found Me There"

Transcript

#517 Reborn: Patrick Rogowski, "My Story, How I Walked Through the Valley of Darkness, and God Found Me There" · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I am excited to be with a good friend of mine, patrick Rogowski.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to bring him on because we're going to be talking about his own witness story how he found his way into the Catholic Church, and it's quite a journey.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Pope Benedict XVI said that our faith is never going to be an ethical decision, some lofty philosophical idea.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: It's always an encounter.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's an encounter with an event and it's an encounter with a person, and this encounter, once it happens to you, will give you a new horizon, a new way to look at the world, and it gives you a decisive direction for your life.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And people don't realize that.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: People think somehow that faith is something you read about, they're learning more information, and then I'm going to get the faith.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: This is what makes what we're talking about here today so different.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: This is an encounter with a person.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's either going to happen to you or it's not going to happen to you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: You either walk into the story and over time, your heart changes, or it doesn't.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's something about not more information, but the very dna that runs through our blood.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we have a hard time believing that, and so that's why I love to have guys like my friend, patrick coming on to talk about their fairly recent experience, and then his journey is is who knows what's going to happen?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm getting a little older.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: This journey's happened to me quite a few years ago.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It happened as a kid.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Then I left the church for 20 years, came back in on my brother's deathbed as he was going out.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: He brought me back into the church and I found my way back in and I was reborn, and that's the name of Patrick's talk.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: He sent me some notes and he called it Reborn.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: How I walked through the valley of darkness and God found me.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Hey, patrick, it's so good to be with you.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: How are you brother?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Hey, jack, good to see you.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I'm doing good.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I just was telling you I just got back on a bicycle ride and I'll tell you, patrick, one of the best things we can do for ourselves today is get off this technology, get out and look at the clouds, look at the sun and realize that, wow, you know, there's a power in creation, there's a power happening, there's a reality around us, and the other reality that happens is prayer and opening your heart to this crazy God who's seeking us.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Tell us just a little bit about it how did it start, when did it start and what were you feeling like before it started?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So let's share it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I love your heart, I love your enthusiasm and it's infectious, and something happened and it makes it exciting for all of us to talk about.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So for me it was at this point now it's three and a half years ago about, and it probably started a little bit before that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: But three and a half years ago I had been going through this kind of lull, I guess, like a little depressed state a little for me, and it was like in a position where I just I didn't really understand what was going on.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I just was at this moment like this event that had happened and I was just kind of trying to figure it out and I was just in a way where it was just I part of me just felt broken and I went through this and it was like a few months of this state, but before that it was, you know, a little bit.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Even before that, I just had a moment here where it's like I was having, like it was a conflict basically, and so conflict going on.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Let's, let's pause this, so yeah, so this is pre pre-encounter with christ.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this would be pre-encounter, yeah and so they're going through some funk.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: You know, describe that a little bit because you're, you know, let's talk about your age here.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: So so when you started this and when you're talking about now, you you're about how old.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Now I just turned 40 about a month ago.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: So when this all was, going down it would have been like 36, 37 roughly.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: So let's back up a little bit.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: You were born into any specific denomination.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Did you grow up?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, I was raised, well born, and then I was baptized into the lutheran church.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, I grew up in and did you practice?
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: it as a child growing up through high school.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I went through.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I was baptized, confirmed, went through high school and then around college or so just we all it's kind of drifted away from it.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: You know, and I would say maybe I was.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I I think I said before is what I said it was like borderline agnostic.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say like I was, you know, like agnostic people just don't know or really don't believe or whatever.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: But it's like I was borderline because more or less it's because I was stagnant.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: You know, I still believed in god and it's just it wasn't part of my daily life, though I just wasn't practicing, I wasn't, you know, doing, you know going to church on Sundays or doing any of that, for I mean probably at least about 20, 20 years or so, just like you.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Like you said 20 years.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, and you know it's one of those ones like when things are going like good or whatever, you know it's like you don't really call on them, but sure enough, like you know, as I got to where I was, you know, it's like I had this thing going through and I, you know, it was like so you're, you're going through, you know you're going through middle age.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Basically, I mean you're starting to go into middle age.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I mean right, I mean you get into your, but instead of a car I got God.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is what happens.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I think you know we go through that crisis and there's, you know there's two basic roads.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: You know one road is to start to buy the old Corvette and, you know, try to regain that childhood.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: You get remarried, you try to have another family, or you try to get a new house or move to a different area or whatever it is.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: You know you're trying to recapture something because you think that's going to make you happy again.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Or you realize, wow, you know, I'm getting older and I gotta find the meaning of life.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I, I gotta find, I gotta dig in, find the meaning of life.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And that's a funky time, my friend.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I went through that too, and a lot of men and women obviously both go through that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So take us through that process a little bit, because it's a sorting out of the human heart.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It's a time where I think this is as natural as anything, where God says, hey, it's time to figure it out.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: You know, my friend, I've given you a lot of time and you've got experience on.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I think God wants us, in a way, patrick, to have experience.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So you know these are three things right that you have the human heart that has these great desires to love and be loved and figure out the truth and what life is all about.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: You get apathetic or you do all kinds of things happen in life, right, and then you have these experiences of life, and so that's where you're at.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I think in middle age, your heart and your experiences of life are starting to feel this cognitive dissonance like what is going on and where is this life going?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: And it can be a funky time, right, and so I think that's kind of where you're at Right, yeah, and it's like for me I know I'd been away from it.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I think a part of me probably is like when you're a kid and you're taken to church, you don't really see it as something you want to do all the time right and in a way, it's not your faith, it's your parents' faith right, yeah, absolutely, absolutely A hundred percent each week.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Right, and I mean overall.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's just cause we we actually moved like from my hometown to a new town in when I was still in high school and you know, you're members of a church and you're in the old town.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: You get to a new town and it's like you never find one and overall it's like as a family, you just stopped going, so never find one.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: And overall, as a family, you just stopped going, so it just and as a kid you didn't have a problem with that, right, you're not sitting there going.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Are we not going to go this week?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: No, it's like you're like, oh good, I don't have to get out of bed on Sunday.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: But you kind of noticed that I guess going through and I will say now though I probably would say I probably took everything for granted even when I was going back then.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So otherwise it would have been something I would have held on to, I wouldn't have let it go if I had the belief in it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I do now.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, there's something there.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, as a kid, when we're growing up, sometimes we have a piece of heart, sometimes we actually feel a connection to God, and I think we take it for granted.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: And I think it's not until we stop that we say we start to realize.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: You know, we don't realize right away what happened, but something happened to our heart, right, Something.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: If you thought about it, you think, wow, I kind of left it behind, I kind of, in my own way, rejected God.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe not, you know, I didn't write a manifesto on it, but that's just the way I'm living, right, I'm living like God doesn't exist.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not praying on a regular basis, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So so again, you get into this funk, patrick, so tell us what that funk was like okay, yeah, so basically for me, I it was, I it was one of those ones where it's like I, I was trying to like figure this out.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I just didn't understand like what was going on for me and I I just felt really lost.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: But at that point it's like like like I wouldn't say I was traumatized at all.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was a little bit of like that, like a little trauma, but like I don't want to say it like that because it wasn't as huge as like some people have trauma, right yeah.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: But it's like after, like I don't know how many months, it was even.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: But after afterward it was like I just was going through trying to figure this out and why did this happen, or what?
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: How did I get here?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: You know that sort of thing.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And I kind of went through and I know like there were a few times.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: It's like sometimes some days you can carry through, you keep yourself distracted, you're at work and I was working extra hours or whatever just to keep myself distracted.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: But then there was like moments where all of a sudden, something like it might hit you a little bit harder, right, and I remember like one event where I was sitting there and like I think my brother was over here at one day and I was, I was hanging out with him, but then he left and just something kind of hit me a little bit and I actually went over to my fridge, you know, and I was like, all right, I got to go to the.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: You know, somebody's answer is alcohol, right.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So I, I did grab a beer real quick, but I went through this and I mean that's not the answer.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I figured that out Like I made myself a promise because in my family my dad was an alcoholic and that was what he did, right.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: And I made a promise that somebody said I'm never going to do that.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So, as I'm sitting here, I never even opened the can, I just put it back in the fridge, cause I remembered like that promise I made to myself I'm never going to, you know, drink or do anything just to drown it, just because I'm feeling bad.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like that's not going to solve it.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm like never going to drink when I'm not in a good mood, sort of thing.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: So I actually I put it down and I was like I'm not.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I put it back in the fridge, walked away and said, nope, we're just going to hold out here.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, there was some moments where I would sit there and I mean, it's like at one point you're like kind of struggling through and I'm like how, when is this going to end?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Like, is it going to get over?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm not like in a moment here where I'm like thinking here, you know like I got to make it end or whatever, but I'm thinking is it going to come to that at some point?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: You know, in my mind it's like am I going to get to a point where it's so bad and I just can't get over it, right?
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: so is this like a depression of some sort?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I know you know these things are hard to describe sometimes yeah, but just to get the audience to kind of get a little sense of of what it is for me.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: They're gonna relate definitely like a depression of it.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely a depression I was going through.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I was just at the moment it was like I'd say, a deep sadness.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I guess really it was a depression and it just was eating at me, and the bigger part of it wasn't even so much about like the actual depression itself.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: It was just the understanding, like trying to figure out the situation itself that caused it Right.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So for me, that's really what the big one was.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like why did this even happen?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: You, for me, that's really what the big one was.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like why did this even happen?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: You're like why am I even in this state?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Like, how can I fix it?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: It's like I tried to fix it but I couldn't fix it and I was like it was me feeling kind of like, you know, in a way broken emotionally, you know, and it's just like trying to deal with it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm like days't need to be driving down the road like this when I can't see, because I'm trying yeah, wow, there are a couple of moments like that, where it's like just even every now and then, something would remind you or whatever, make you think of something, dwell on it, and you would just kind of start to fall apart again and now.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Now, anything come up when you're, when you're thinking, you think about something and anything specific, and you're, you know, when you, uh, you know, are you thinking about something you did in the past, like a?
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: You know for me?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: it's something I did in the past.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: It was something that happened Like it was for me.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It was like it was a falling out I had with somebody you know and what it's.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Just I didn't quite understand why, cause it was like somebody who I got along with really well.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Then, all of a sudden, things fell apart and all of a sudden it's like we I just got, you know, cut them out, basically, but in a way that I could never see them again.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like I'm never going to see these people and I just completely couldn't figure out, for so for me it was why did it happen?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: What caused the situation?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Why did the like, the, the, the relationship, the, the, I guess the, our rapport or whatever, just changed in a way, right that we just yeah and yeah.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: And it's like now, all of a sudden, you have somebody who was a great person.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Now it's like you, you have this basically enemy out there.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: It's like you can't run into them, you don't want to see them, you want to see them, but at the same time, it's like I can't, you know, and then I don't know.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of lost at that point, trying to just understand everything.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: That's then that was really what got me.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: It's like you lost this person who was a great person, but you don't understand even what caused it, and that's really what really caused a big part of it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, think about you know how many relationships like this you know in marriages and stuff.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I, you know, I see this all the time.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Right, something happens in people's lives and they look back and they go.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I've talked to guys before.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I said, well, what caused the divorce or what caused this?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I don't even know.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: There's an enemy force out there that would love to just divide us all and divide our hearts and everything.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So you're going through this funk and then what happens?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, what was?
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: It would be like three years ago, this past March, right?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So obviously after a session of TMIY.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just walking out with Jeff, so just tell people, so that.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: TMIY, that man is you yeah that man is you, which is a Catholic men's group in various parishes.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: They're out of Houston, texas, and they started this thing many, many years ago for men.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: So men are meeting every Saturday morning generally, and so you were invited right by a good friend.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: You know I've been out of the church thing for a while.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: So I kind of decided, you know what, let's just give this thing a shot and just go to it.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And just more or less at the time the first time was just like, okay, just to appease you know, jeff, because he asked me, you know, invited me to go, so we'll go, we'll else's table, and I kind of stuck with that table throughout that portion.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: But then when COVID came and it shut down, I came back and, you know, joined the table with you and Jeff, and that on March 20th of like it was 2021 at the time, after the after TMIY, he invited me actually to a mass, saturday morning mass.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: After we were just walking out, he said you want to come to mass?
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, how long is it?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, okay, why not?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: So I just I showed up and I sat down for that and so I sat through first time.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I mean it's not my first time being to a mass.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I mean in high school I've gone to like Christmas with like somebody at the time a friend of mine, you know.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So it's not my first time being there and you know.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: So I we went through it and I was like he's giving me the cues, like every time just sit down here.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Like whenever he's doing the yeah for the yeah.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: For people that don't know that mass is not a.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It's not like Protestant service is it?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a different ball game, right it's.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: It's a it's like this coordinated exercise, right?
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: People are responding and they know how to respond together and it's not just the preachers, it's getting up, getting down, knowing responses to prayers and something different Participating.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And I know.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Granted, like any other things you go to, it depends on what you're going to Like.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: In the Lutheran Church, there is participation, but not to that level, sure, absolutely.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And the Catholic Mass has a much higher focus on the actual, like the Eucharist or the communion.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Basically I know like in the Lutheran church you have it every other week, at least when I was growing up, and it was just like at the end a couple, like five minutes, 10 minutes maybe, depending on how big your church is.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: But in the Catholic mass it's like half of the service is that's what the mass is.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: It is the rest of it.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: So we, we, we, you know, get through the service, basically, and at the end Jeff gets up, he goes to the back, he goes to light a candle and say some prayers, right, I'm just sitting there and I'm like, do I get up and leave now?
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I do, I'm not going to say goodbye to him and I'm like I don't think I can do that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But at the same time it's kind of weird to just sit here, right?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: So I, you know, I, just I stayed sitting there and I said, you know what, just to make you feel less awkward, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to pray.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So I just sat there and I, just I, I, I sat there, I bowed my head, I prayed and you know, I just unloaded at that moment and had a like a real heart to heart conversation and went over like I, what's going on right now?
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, you know, like, with this whole falling out thing that I had, I sat there and I know I had my part in it.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: So I, you know, I, basically I guess I went to his mercy.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I begged for like forgiveness for me, but I also begged for forgiveness for the other person as well, you know, and just completely felt this weight lifting off of me.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: It was like one of those things, like I just felt this relief.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you know, and I just know, it's like part of me was just sitting there, even as, like tears started flowing in my eyes as I was sitting there with this prayer, just I could feel a power in there that I have.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I've noted that.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It's like I've never that was one of my thoughts afterwards I've never felt that in any other church like this presence, this power, this and it's right Cause he's right there.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And and it's right Cause he's right there and I and I don't know if I realized it at that time, but he's like right there in the tabernacle, you know.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So I felt that and it's like I walked out feeling different, right.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, later in the day I was you know it was my going to my brother's house for my niece's birthday party and as I'm driving down the road, just the last stretch, get into his house, you know, right before the turnoff to get to where his house is, and all of a sudden, like I just I was listening to this music on my radio, the song comes on and as I'm listening to the chorus, all of a sudden and I'm like I don't know if it was the chorus or what it was, but something about it and I started thinking about it again and I literally started falling apart, breaking down in my car again, you know, and I was like I figured I wasn't out of the woods at that point.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I felt better after I left the church, but I, and this, all of a sudden, I just started like breaking down again.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not even kidding, I'm just crying.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going, I'm coming to this party, like everybody's going to go, what's going on or whatever, right?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So as I'm driving down the road, I had this moment where it's like I just I'm like I don't know what else, what to do, and I just I just called out, I just shouted help me at that moment.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And I, in that moment, it's like I probably felt like I don't know.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: After that prayer in the church, I'm like I'm trying to understand what this is all for, because that's what the, the lyrics, had to do, is like it's there's a reason to it, right?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like I don't know the reason.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So I just said help me.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And I like, immediately after that, all of a sudden, like like the, the, my car, it just was filled, flooded basically with this like glow, all of a sudden, and it's like I thought it was really weird, because when I'm driving down the road that day it was a gray, overcast sky, there was like no sunlight whatsoever, but suddenly this light is shining, this golden light is just in my car and I could feel this like warmth just kind of flowing through me, like it's the comforting warmth and I'm like, and at one point it's like I even felt like I was weightless.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I could feel myself just kind of sitting there and I'm like raising my arms up, going what's going on, you know, wondering, looking through my whole the car here and you know, and everything's moving in slow motion.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: At this point, like it's almost like you're still driving.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not, maybe I'm not time, I just Like it's almost like you're still driving.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not, time might've stopped.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not going back to it.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, literally time felt like it slowed down, you know.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: So, as I'm sitting here in my car, just went around going what is going on right here, all of a sudden it felt like I had this hand rest upon my shoulder and I heard a voice in the backseat telling me everything is going to be okay.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And like, after that, pretty much as instantly as all that started, everything returned back to normal.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And now I'm sitting here and I'm driving back down the road.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like I there was no other cars on the road, thank goodness.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: But I'm like not at an intersection or whatever else, because I'm focused on this.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: But I'm not even kidding.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It's like I think everything slowed down to like I'm in his time at this point, so his time moves at a different speed.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: So it's like all this is happening really quick in our time, but it's like feels like it's slowed down.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: He's bringing me into his presence at that point and you know, with those words, like everything's going to be okay, I didn't even know what to think about that.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I went to the party and I'm sitting there the whole time.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I was distracted.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going what was that?
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: What is going on right now, experienced basically, even though it's like deep down you know what it was.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: You know it's like that was God.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: He stepped in right there and you know.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: And so like I basically what happened when I first heard that I was given this hope, like I'm like, okay, great, everything's going to return to normal I'm, you know, I'm going to get my friend back and everything.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: But in time I learned really that's not what he meant.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Really it's that your life is not really affected by their absence.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: You know it has no merit on you, you know.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: So them being gone doesn't really affect your livelihood.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: You're the quality of your life, you know.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: And in reality you know, in all of this it's like I have something better now.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: You know, because I have this experience, I have something better now.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: You know cause I have this experience and now this, like I don't know this whole.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: What would it be?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: This I'm like, if this is like, I'm on fire.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: You know, like I said, you know this whole faith right now.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: You know I have something like here that I'm like experiencing and going through and shortly after that I can't remember if it was a week or so after that I was just filled with this need here.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like I got to do some studying, like I wanted to read the Bible, you know.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So I was like I think I was at my mom's house at this point.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I was sitting upstairs like, cause I didn't have a Bible at my house, I was like is there one here?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking all over trying to find one sitting there and I'm like I need a Bible.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I want to read a Bible, you know so you had not read the Bible before.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I have Not for a long time.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I have never read one all the way through Like.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think I really read much more than a chapter at a time or something, and mostly just readings in church.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I never really actually cracked it open and in-depth read it.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I might have studied in it for like Sunday school stuff or whatever things like that and done some reading, and mostly it was like the word that was said that day.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: So all of a sudden I just had this need and I have tried like I got one of those the little green Bibles they give you when you're in, like you're on a college campus, or handing them out the not the Mormons, but I can't remember who hands them out Gideons, I think they're the Gideons.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The New Testament with the Psalms, and I at times I would kind of pick that up and read it, but I would always, you know, like fall off that and not really read through it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: But this time I actually sat down, I picked that that New Testament up and I started reading and I read the entire book of Matthew in one weekend and then the next weekend I read the entire book of Mark and then I started reading John and I'm like this isn't what I want.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I want to read the whole thing.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I want to go cover to cover Old Testament through New Testament.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: So I was like I looked up Bible apps I mean, some people have told me about ones they use.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm going to go find one of those, I'm going to read this thing.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: And I found one and it had some plans to read the Bible.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: It was like Bible in a year and I'm like I don't want to take that long, I need it to be quicker.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So I found a plan and it was like a 90 day Bible and a, you know, bible day, complete Bible reading plan and I was like, well, if it's 90 days or a year, I'll take the 90 days.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: So I literally spent that summer and read through the entire Bible and in reading that and I think even going back through and kind of doing some other reading and stuff, I just my, it's like my eyes were opened, I don't know.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I just started seeing things and finding stuff.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I just started seeing things and finding stuff and so the you know, after reading the Bible, the next thing was like I got to get back to church, you know, and some people had told me about one of these like an online mega church.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I was watching that at that point still attending TMIY.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I would go to Saturday masses with Jeff on a pretty regular basis at that point and part of me was starting to wonder, like where do I go back?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I'm like I got to do it.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: You go to one of these.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I could go back to the Lutheran church and part of me was like kind of like the mega church is kind of cool, it's like fun, but I'm like I got to go back to one where you really do the full on, like have the communion and everything.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And I was really starting to question where I should go.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And you know, when reading in the Bible, I could kind of start to see things and I'm like I kind of see this in here like the Catholic church.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: It has the confession and the Eucharist and all of the extra stuff that no other church has, and I'm like that's a big commitment.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: You know to do that, you know to join up for that, and there's like no turning back once you make that commitment.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And for me, though I was looking at it going, you know what, I kind of got this glimpse of heaven right now.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: I don't want to miss out, right out, right.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So for me, and and and in the, in the button, looking at stuff I was reading, I was like I feel like I'm like, okay, wait a second here.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Catholic church started at, you know, with the apostles.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: The Lutheran church was started 1500, 1200 years later by a man, by a man.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So do I want to follow Christ or do I want to follow a man?
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: So, as I'm pondering all this, you know, as it turns out, you know, I'm going through this.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: In one day it was probably months I was going through this, not making a decision, not going anywhere, not doing whatever, and I'm like I got to figure this out, I got to go somewhere.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: But one day, jeff walks in with he's like hey, come on downstairs when you get down here, I got something for you.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I walk into his office that morning and he gives me the card for the RCIA class at St Patrick's in St Charles and he's like yeah, the first meeting's today.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, what a riot.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like okay, all right.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: For people that aren't Catholic.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Rcia is the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults and it's a you know, let's call it a program.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: It's a way to initiate yourself into the church so you understand church teaching.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: A good RCIA group of leaders will really take you through a pretty extensive right.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a long process and it's a big commitment.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: It's not like you just walk into the church and say, okay, everybody accept me, let's be baptized, right?
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, with the Catholic Church, they really want you to make a right decision and at the end that's what you want, right?
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, with the Catholic Church, they really want you to make a right decision and at the end that's what you want, right?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I mean that's what I wanted too.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: When I came back into the Church, I said well, you know, I'm already at this age I was 38 years old, so I wasn't much different than your age and I said well, I'm not making a mistake and if I can help it, I don't want to make another mistake In other.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to try to come back where I think there's the fullness of the truth and basically what you just said, you know.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I went to graduate school in theology, patrick, not just to become Catholic, because I had come back into the church, but I wanted to know how deep these roots were.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: The first thing I studied was early Christianity.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And then I wanted to study, you know, the Old Testament.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go into actually the history of the Jewish people, see how this came, see how this all evolved.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Was it true?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to know.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Was it true?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Because I was not going to spend another 38 years of making another mistake, you know?
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: And then, same thing as you, studying Scripture, old Testament, new Testament and then linking it all together.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And it's very important what you just said.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: When you study and I know you did the early church that you can dive in really deep.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: But when you start to read the apostles, and then the early church fathers, which came right after the apostles, and then somebody taught by the apostles and those people we have a lot of writings from them and you just go whoa, this is what's being passed down to us, that tradition, right, is being passed down to us.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: So you decided to go to the Catholic, you decided to go to the Catholic church, right, and come in.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So like I got the card and he handed it to me.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I remember coming home for lunch that day going all right, I got to really decide.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: First meeting is tonight make or break time, right now.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm really sitting here going.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Do I go, do I don't?
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm really looking at it going.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: This is the right decision, but I'm like it's a big commitment Cause it's going to be like there's a lot of stuff here like that, you know, every other church is.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Like you can go on, I'm not going to.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say it like that.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Like every other church, you show up on Sunday but like you don't have the height, like I don't, I don't want to.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It's like a higher standard within the Catholic church for how you act and everything and how you, you know, obviously make penance, then you know.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And so for me I was like looking at it going well, I'd rather do all this extra stuff, even if it's not necessary, you know Okay.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So, you know okay.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: So what if the catholic church it's they're doing all this extra and it's not required, it's not a necessary step, right, yeah, but I'd rather do that than not do it and and not make the cut, you know.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: So that was part of what I was deciding.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: It's like I'm gonna do whatever it takes right at this point I'm gonna get there.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: So I I basically thought about I'm going, well, here's what I got going for me right now.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I was sitting there in that church that day that I prayed like that.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, there's power.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel it anywhere else.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So that's what led me there.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: But at the same time I'm looking at all the steps that have happened leading up to this point Right, and I realize, you know, because Jeff invited me to that, to mass where that prayer happened, and then that day itself probably wouldn't happen if not for that.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And now he's invited me to join the church and I'm sitting here going.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: God's working through him basically to get me.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So I looked at that and believe that and I'm like you know what I'm going to go.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And I almost he said the first meeting was like informational.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, I don't need it, I'll go, I'll go.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: So I basically drove out to St Charles that night, showed up to the first meeting and found out, yeah, it's like I'm expecting to be like a month long process and it's like a six month long process of this every Wednesday night and then later on they show in like you got those Sundays for the dismissals and everything.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: So the process itself is very committal, but I think, outside of one session, I made it every week.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe every Sunday, every now and then because of weather I didn't make it, but I would just go in town then because I'm in Sycamore.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: So it's about a half hour drive for me to get there.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: But I was out there early every Wednesday.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I'd be there first person.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I'd be sitting first person.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I'd be sitting there reading.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I remember like when they gave us the our Bibles and catechisms, I started showing up there.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I'd be reading the catechisms.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Everybody else was walking in.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Somebody walked up and said are you reading that thing?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Cover to cover.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I said, yes, I am, I got to learn, so I made my way all the way through.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: That that was.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: That was quite a read there.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Did you make your way, all the way through that?
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's a big deal.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Now, you know, I thought it was a challenge because when the deacon gave it to us, this is a reference material You're not actually supposed to.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: You don't read this cover to cover.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: And I was like.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: No, I will read this.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I remember you told me you did that and I go yeah, he's committed, he's committed.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because people would think that the cat, the catechism, which is this book about everything that's Catholic, right, it's a pretty thick book.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: It's like just as long as the Bible itself, right?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and people would think it's going to start out with rules and regulations and all this foundation, but it doesn't.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: It starts out section one, chapter one, paragraph one with desire.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: It starts out with desire, desire of the human heart.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: And this is what, as we start to wind up here, pat, this is what, as we start to wind up here, pat, this is what drives people here and this is what makes this so fascinating is that while you're studying scripture, while you're studying the catechism, while you're talking to people, while you're walking into the church, there's an encounter, something's happening to your heart.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: People today, unfortunately, don't sit in silence enough, and I know you got into prayer and silence and adoration, and so when you do these things because I was a witness to your heart changing and I remember you saying something to me like something's changing you know something's changing, and I didn't ask you the first time about that, you know, and then you were doing it again and you would start to talk about that, and so time about that, you know, and then you were doing it again and you would start to talk about that, and so talk about that a little bit, because and we don't have a lot of time left, so I want to get you to talk just a little bit about the heart, the transformation of the heart, and talk a little bit about adoration.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: You know that presence that I know you sense in the Eucharist.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: You know, because I think this is just amazing.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Right, we're on the veil when we pray and when we see Christ in the Eucharist, when we receive Holy Communion.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: We are at the veil between this world and the next and we're right there.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: And if we pay attention and you paid enough attention, you took the time, you put the time in, but it's not just more information, is it?
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: You know, something happens to the human heart and you're on that veil and you can sense it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Right, we don't get the full look at, you know, until we're.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: We pass through this life, my friend, but you get a sense that something's happening here.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, for me, like so I think a big part of my change was just I, in all my reading and studying, it's like, you see, like part of it was like you see how jesus was, you know, things didn't get to him so much and for me, and how he treated people, you know how he was always humble and things.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So over time, I feel like I tried to start, actually, you know, emulating him a little more.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You know, trying to.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I would spot things in myself, but now it's like this, and now I'm at a point it's like things don't bother me, you know, like most like they would.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Most people, like somebody cuts me off in traffic.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like all right, I may have a little like I don't know what that was about, and they just go and I just keep going about my day.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: If it doesn't affect me, it doesn't affect me, it's easy enough.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Like forgiveness is a big thing, right there, it's easy like I just let him go, he's fine, it's not a big deal, it didn't, didn't cause me any issue, and you run into that everywhere.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: But it's like, at the same time, it's just like when you, when you, just you know a bad thing can happen, okay, it's like you just react, you don't react to it the same way, you know, and it's like you're able to just have more peace with it, like you're.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It's like that's not the end of the world or whatever.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And I find a big separation also because I find myself having less of a connection with, like material things.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: You know, like I'm like that's.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I have more time here, I'm like spending more time trying to study and be in like the word or something like that.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: You know, not really focusing on this, I'm like that's just a, that's an object that's not going to buy me and get me any satisfaction.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: So and for me, like with the adoration, I kind of started going slowly.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I remember I think it was Mark or whatever questioned me Like he asked me if I'd ever gone to adoration.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I think when we were at Jeff's cabin last year and he said, have you ever gone to adoration?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I was like I've never been in adoration.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: You should go, you need to go.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, I started going.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: People know Mark is another friend of ours who is a big guy that his heart was transformed through confession, right, getting rid of all of the garbage that lays within us, confessing your sins Repentance is what it's called.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: You know, jesus said to repent and believe in the gospel, huh, and so repent and believe in the—what's the gospel?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: The gospel is really the life of Jesus Christ, right?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the good news.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And so when you're looking, when you're in adoration, that's what you're doing.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: So that's what Mark is talking about.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I repent, I dump all this garbage and now I go one-to-one with the person that's inviting me into the story, right?
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: And so that's what he's doing with you.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: He wants you to encounter what he's encountering and see if you know, see if you, if, if you get the same thing.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: So I I started going to adoration like at that point, like maybe not right away after, but I said, okay, I'm going to go and I started going, I think, cause I was in the summer, so I probably after TMIY started up again.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I started going Saturday morning.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: That would just go in after, after TMIY.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And at first it was like one of those things like I don't you know, you don't know what it is when you're walking in, right, and so I just started going and going and kind of it's like you kind of learn a little bit, you kind of figure it out and you just go through and it's about just being there in silence.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: You can pray also and and I've just sat there and just carried on like basically conversation, sometimes like just what's ever on my mind is coming through, and try not to be distracted.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I know it's easy hard not to get distracted when you're sitting there for like an hour or so, and so I mean I've noticed like a few times being in there, like the one when I, when I told you like the day well, it wasn't right after it happened it was the next time I saw you after, like this past January when I was sitting in there just quietly looking, you know, at the Eucharist in the monstrance there and I basically had a vivid like flashback of that on March.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Back in March, when I had the encounter, you know, he kind of it went through all of that and kind of showed me like for me it was like it looked like, it was like just when you see, like a quick flash, like just all this print type stuff and pamphlets being handed out to me.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I took what that meant was like he wants me to share my story, you know.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: So he was telling me that.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And that's when I came up to you and I was like, hey, I, I got to get the word out, we got to talk about this, we got to get my testimony out there, because I feel like he's telling me I need to share it.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: It's time now to get it out there.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe the past three years has been me kind of studying and learning and more understanding this.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I have a better understanding of all of this.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it was a year before that I'd gone through the RCIA process and joined the church in April.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: So I got that.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And I've had a couple other experiences where I remember this year, march 20th, I went in.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: It was Be Reconciled Day and I actually went in and just said, ok, it's Be Reconciled Day.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I don't have a regular thing.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I go when it's like, oh, there's something going on, let's go get our confession in, so 320, be reconciled.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I made a point to go there and it was a Wednesday, so I went in, I gave my confession.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: It was kind of funny because it was March 20th and what the priest gave me for penance that day was to say a prayer of thankfulness.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, today, why not three-year anniversary of that day?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, that makes sense, you know.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Just to remind people.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: So it was march 20th of 2021, right three years before that you had this, this encounter this, yeah, yeah, so sure, and if we pay, attention.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, right, how, how these things will work, right.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: You talk about when you were there and Christ wasn't in the Eucharist.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, so, oh, when I went to confession one day or when I went to the adoration and it's like I remember, one day I kind of thought I'd kind of slipped up, you know, and committed like basically a mortal sin one time and I went into adoration.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I was like I think I might've screwed up this time and I basically walked into adoration after TMIY that day and I was in there and I'm like I can't see him today.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: You know, usually it's like you see the specimen in there.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: It's like white, you can see it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like it's not there, I just don't see it at all.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: So I went to confession that day.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: So you see a monstrance, but you don't see the.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Eucharist, you, but you don't see the Eucharist.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: You don't see like the white, the bright glow that you'd see in it.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: And I went to confession that day.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Then I'm like all right, I got to go.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: So I went.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: And then the next week for TMIY I stopped in there right before attending, going in for the, into the hall for it.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I stopped in the Adoration Chapel and just walked in there and looked and I said I could see him again.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I could see him again, you know.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: So I was like all right here we go.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: And then I mean there was there's been other experiences, like I remember, like when they did the good, it was it.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I went to Maundy Thursday service this year, or a Holy, holy Thursday, and they call it Maundy Lutheran church, but it was Holy Thursday this year and they ended the service.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: They actually take him and they don't put him back in the tabernacle, they just walked him out of the church and I feel like after that happened, up and through going to, I went to church then on good friday because like it's like I went home and all of a sudden it was quiet.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I couldn't.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: It's like just this kind of supernatural quiet that I was, I sensed and I'm like it's because he's not there.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: You know he's gone, he's been taken out of the, out of the tabernacle you know, like, at that point because he was taken.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I know it represents like when he was taken from the garden and they were taking him to put him on trial, basically.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: So he was absent at that point and then so it was kind of funny because I had that whole thing.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going, I definitely am going to go to Good Friday service right now because it's like I'm it's, I'm missing him, basically.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: So I went to Good Friday and you know they obviously they have the it's pre-concentrated because they don't actually perform it.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: It's like that's the only day it's not called a mass because of that.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: But it's like you go up there, you take the Eucharist and all of a sudden it's like everything, everything returned back to normal.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: At that point, you know, it's like all of's like it's so bizarre how all of a sudden, like the it's like you have your ambient noises and stuff and it's like you got like the spirit maybe is what it is, but also just this emptiness.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like that's weird.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: It was a weird feeling.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't quite get that and it was kind of funny.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I will say like Ash Wednesday for me this year was actually kind of a another kind of experience that day, cause I was sitting there.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I went after work.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: I cause it was like I think on the holy days of obligation and make a point to leave the office to go in the morning, but since Ash Wednesday is not considered a holy day of obligation, I went in the evening.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: So I went straight after work and you're sitting there.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I went up and I got the ashes and my I'm diabetic, my blood sugar started going low and I could just feel beads of sweat or coming down me like this and I'm like at one point, like we're on that, we're kneeling here because we're doing the actual blessing of the sacrament and I'm like shaking my head because I'm like barely like maintaining focus.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm about to like just almost pass out.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I'm able, I'm just shaking off the, the weariness from being low and everything.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And you know we do the whole like do the piece, you get back down after you know the lamb of God and everything.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: And so you know we do the whole, like do the piece, you get back down after you know the lamb of God and everything.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And so we're going up for their Eucharist and I'm basically just walking up and it's kind of funny because after I got it that day I'm like worried that the priest is going to look at me.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: My ashes were just bleeding, just running off my forehead because I'm sweating so much and I get up there and I take the Eucharist and all of a sudden I just I was back to normal.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I was walking back.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, my blood sugar was still low, but I was like walking through, I didn't have the weakness, I wasn't, you know, going to like pass out.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Basically I was like rejuvenated after taking it.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So it was really kind of like a you know, one of those moments where it's like yeah, there you go for people.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: It's like he's present in that yeah, and and, and, and, as we, as, as we end up here with the last minute or two.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: You know I, I know your heart has changed, my heart has changed all of us, you know, at our table we've got a good group of guys right, a good group of friends, and everybody has a story, everybody has a story of.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe you know it's not going to be this, we're not going to have the same stories, right, but the point is, god woos all of us.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: He wants to come into every single person's heart.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: It's the most astounding mystery, the most beautiful thing you can imagine.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: But I think we need to witness, like you just did today.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much, patrick, for doing that.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I think we need to continue to witness to one another.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Because when you're with a group of let's call it 15 guys that we all know these guys, we know their stories, we've shared stories together and each guy has been wooed.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Each guy has been wooed by Jesus Christ, by our Blessed Mother, by the Holy Spirit, by the Father, by saints, by friends, and all of this richness comes in.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: And the more you study, the more you read the early church fathers, the more you know the saints and the more you know the people around you that are walking this journey with you, the more astounding it gets.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Astounding it gets.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: And then you get to a point and you go.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: You know, just like Peter.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You know, when he said everybody walked up and got, you know, walked away when he was talking about the Eucharist and teaching about the Eucharist when Jesus was, and he looked at the apostles, and he goes.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Are you two going to get up and leave?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And Peter goes, where else would we go?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: You know you have the words of eternal life and I think that's where we get Patrick.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: At some point in your life, if you've been at it long enough, you just know that this is the place.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Man, you're just not going anywhere because you just feel like you know you're a pilgrim, we're a traveler, but we're on a narrow road right and it's a journey.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Huh, it's a good journey, oh it is yeah, and I will say like to you go weekly and you get, you know, that refresh, that, you know with, with the spirit and everything.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: But for me, a lot of times, having the regular gatherings among other people of like faith really does strengthen your own faith.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: The weeks we don't gather.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like I really need to get back with these people.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: A little bit.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's the two great commandments, right?
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Love God, come into a relationship with God and then go out and love your neighbor.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Those two things are important.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Jesus doesn't detach those.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Now you can't reverse that order.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: To your earlier point with your friend that you became disconnected from Christ says no, you've got to come to me first, no matter what happens with that friendship or with any other friendship, you got to come to me first and be filled with divine life and love so that you can trade this back and forth with everybody else.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's what we do.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: When I'm speaking to you, I know that God has filled you.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: And what we're doing, we're sharing the love between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: He's given us that love and then we walk into the journey and we make it visible in the world while we're walking and talking and loving and trying to get through this crazy world and this crazy mess as we look around.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the battle of the human heart between you know, the city of God and the city of man.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks everybody.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Patrick, say goodbye to everybody.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: All right, bye, everybody.