Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Adult Male 'Furry' Stalks, Snatches Young Boy

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Adult Male 'Furry' Stalks, Snatches Young Boy · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: A little boy disappears seemingly into thin air. What does
0:10
Speaker 1: that have to do with a grown man miles and
0:14
Speaker 1: miles away who is a so called furry I'm Nancy Grace.
0:20
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:23
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X twenty eleven. First
0:26
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at k SL.
0:29
Speaker 1: We do have a breaking development tonight in the search
0:32
Speaker 1: for a thirteen year old Layton boy. Layton Police identifying
0:35
Speaker 1: the suspect by name for the very first time tonight
0:38
Speaker 1: as twenty six year old Aaron Zeeman. Earlier, they went
0:42
Speaker 1: by the alias city used on social media, and also
0:45
Speaker 1: have an updated description of the car, a white nineteen
0:48
Speaker 1: ninety eight Toyota Avalon. Meanwhile, the mother of the boy
0:51
Speaker 1: pleading tonight for his safe return. Can you imagine your
0:55
Speaker 1: little boy just seemingly vanishing and you haven't no idea
1:00
Speaker 1: where he is, and then you find out that somehow
1:05
Speaker 1: some perv has been communicating with him online. Take a
1:09
Speaker 1: listen again to our friends at KSL. At times, she
1:13
Speaker 1: broke down in tears, just an incredibly trying and difficult
1:17
Speaker 1: time for her and her family. She tells us that
1:19
Speaker 1: she believes she was doing everything right, trying to keep
1:21
Speaker 1: calves on her son, and still somehow this happened in
1:25
Speaker 1: the middle of an everyday suburban neighborhood. It felt like
1:28
Speaker 1: every day typical parenting. I monitor to all of his things.
1:31
Speaker 1: I monitored his game playing time, his bones. And then
1:36
Speaker 1: one day weeks ago, everything changed. I opened his phone
1:40
Speaker 1: up and that's kind of where I stumbled upon conversations
1:44
Speaker 1: and it just turned into kind of a rabbit hole.
1:46
Speaker 1: Heather mcconnie discovered her thirteen year old son, Evan, had
1:49
Speaker 1: been talking to this stranger online through a game called Roadblocks.
1:53
Speaker 1: With me and All Star Panel to make sense of
1:55
Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first I want to
1:58
Speaker 1: go out to Tanya George, the chief parenting marketing officer
2:03
Speaker 1: at Bark Technologies, author of Parenting in a Tech World.
2:09
Speaker 1: To Tanya, thank you for being with us. For those
2:11
Speaker 1: that don't know what is Roadblocks, Roadblocks is a very
2:15
Speaker 1: popular game. It's actually one of the most popular video
2:18
Speaker 1: games in the United States for children five to twelve,
2:21
Speaker 1: and it's essentially a bunch of random games that people
2:25
Speaker 1: have created. It's a platform hosting literally millions of games
2:29
Speaker 1: that people can choose to play m oh. Taking everything
2:32
Speaker 1: you just said and everything you just said, it sounds
2:34
Speaker 1: awfully innocent. It sounds like me playing Connect four, Monopoly
2:38
Speaker 1: or Go Fish. But it's not. I think to Tania,
2:43
Speaker 1: and I certainly demure to your expertise in this field,
2:47
Speaker 1: that you left out something really important. You don't just
2:50
Speaker 1: play games with yourself like Solitaire. You play with other
2:53
Speaker 1: people online that you don't know. How does that work? Yeah,
2:56
Speaker 1: you know with any platform that has user generated content
3:00
Speaker 1: and an in game chat feature waite a man, whoa
3:03
Speaker 1: whoa white? Right? Any game that has quote user generated content. Now,
3:11
Speaker 1: I could think about that for a while, but why
3:13
Speaker 1: don't you just tell me what you mean by that.
3:14
Speaker 1: I mean that people are creating an uploading content, just
3:19
Speaker 1: like they can to YouTube or any other social media platform.
3:23
Speaker 1: So people are in charge of uploading the games, the characters,
3:27
Speaker 1: the storylines. Two roadblocks. That's part of the problem. But
3:31
Speaker 1: the larger problem, or where the danger really lies, is
3:34
Speaker 1: in the in game chat feature that means your child
3:38
Speaker 1: can be talking to anyone, including adults, including furries. I
3:42
Speaker 1: was just writing down the word Fortnite. Do you remember
3:44
Speaker 1: when that was the Big Christ? Maybe it still is.
3:46
Speaker 1: I don't know. My son praised the Lord made the
3:49
Speaker 1: basketball team at school, and so now that's taking up
3:52
Speaker 1: all his time and not Fortnite and Minecraft and just
3:57
Speaker 1: so many others. But I remember him telling me that
4:01
Speaker 1: one of his little friends had spent three hundred dollars
4:06
Speaker 1: on outfits. I call them outfits. I think they call
4:09
Speaker 1: them skins or I don't know what they call them.
4:12
Speaker 1: For the player in Fortnite to wear, okay, imaginary clothes
4:18
Speaker 1: for an imaginary character on for ten game. Three hundred dollars.
4:24
Speaker 1: And I know that this is real to them, but
4:28
Speaker 1: that's real money. My point is, and they're playing with
4:32
Speaker 1: real people. I would always tell Lucy's never been tempted
4:37
Speaker 1: to play any of these games. But I would always
4:40
Speaker 1: tell my son, how do you know that Danny is
4:43
Speaker 1: not a sixty year old guy in his underwear in
4:48
Speaker 1: front of a screen eating popcorn in New Jersey? How
4:51
Speaker 1: do you know that? Why do you think he's an
4:53
Speaker 1: eleven year old kid like you. On top of that,
4:55
Speaker 1: you know, not many kids have three hundred dollars and
4:57
Speaker 1: disposable income. He didn't either. They use his parents credit card. Well,
5:02
Speaker 1: you know, but that's the way that predators wore children
5:05
Speaker 1: they lean into their desire or roebucks or other in
5:09
Speaker 1: game currency, so they can't get the skin, so they
5:11
Speaker 1: can't get the upgrade. Right, it really is called a skin.
5:14
Speaker 1: I can't believe I remember that it's called a skin. Yes, wow, okay, well,
5:18
Speaker 1: actually it looks like painted on skin. I looked at
5:21
Speaker 1: what this kid had spent three hundred dollars on. I'm like,
5:24
Speaker 1: I did his parents know? And the parents didn't know
5:26
Speaker 1: yet they hadn't gotten their receipt. Okay, we're talking about Well,
5:30
Speaker 1: actually I've gotten this a way off track with Titania
5:33
Speaker 1: Jordan from Bark, which I have. And this is not
5:37
Speaker 1: a plug by me. Nobody asked me to say it.
5:40
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not getting paid to say it. But I
5:42
Speaker 1: really like your Bark technology because every time the technology
5:47
Speaker 1: picks up a word that they find troubling, maybe it's
5:52
Speaker 1: a curse word, maybe it's a self harm word like
5:55
Speaker 1: bruise or bully or calling names something like that, and
5:59
Speaker 1: Aedily alerts me on my cell phone. Now, so far,
6:03
Speaker 1: every time I've gone back, it's either been part of
6:05
Speaker 1: some text chain with some of their horrible little friends,
6:09
Speaker 1: or it's been part of another video from like YouTube
6:14
Speaker 1: that somebody sent them or that came to them. So far,
6:17
Speaker 1: they haven't uttered any of that. Praise the Lord. But
6:20
Speaker 1: let me move forward. I'm talking about not Skins on Fortnite,
6:24
Speaker 1: but I'm talking about a little boy who's what Nicole
6:28
Speaker 1: Partners joining me Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, Nicole.
6:31
Speaker 1: What game is he playing? What is this this little
6:35
Speaker 1: boy doing? Evan? Evan is communicating through Oculus, through a
6:41
Speaker 1: virtual reality Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, my head is
6:44
Speaker 1: spinning around. That's the white headset you put on. And yes,
6:49
Speaker 1: I tried to sit down on a chair and nearly
6:52
Speaker 1: broke my neck when John David got an Oculus because
6:55
Speaker 1: there wasn't a chair there. I was playing virtual reality
6:58
Speaker 1: with John David and thought I was doing great, and
7:01
Speaker 1: I just sat down and what appeared to be a chair,
7:04
Speaker 1: well it was nothing, and I sat down and ended
7:08
Speaker 1: up on the floor. But God bless him, he didn't laugh.
7:12
Speaker 1: Achulus is a virtual reality headset. If it's all the
7:16
Speaker 1: way around your head and it seems like you're really
7:19
Speaker 1: in another place. Warning, don't sit down, Nicole. He's playing.
7:25
Speaker 1: He's got on an adula's headset. But he's playing this game,
7:29
Speaker 1: right he is. He's playing this game, and going back
7:33
Speaker 1: to what we just heard, he's able to chat and
7:36
Speaker 1: communicate with others who are logged into this game. He
7:40
Speaker 1: was also communicating with this individual through the old fashioned Twitter,
7:45
Speaker 1: which we're all familiar with. He was also talking to
7:48
Speaker 1: him on Twitter and had communications going through that source
7:52
Speaker 1: as well. I'm just trying to process everything that the
7:55
Speaker 1: two of you are telling me, because first people said, oh,
7:58
Speaker 1: it happened on achulas. This is not a platform. Oculus
8:03
Speaker 1: is a device that you put on your face around
8:07
Speaker 1: your head and you see virtual reality. They're really need
8:11
Speaker 1: they're very realistic, but you can get I guess I
8:14
Speaker 1: would say games for a lack of a better word,
8:17
Speaker 1: that typically many people think you would see on a screen, okay,
8:22
Speaker 1: like a laptop or a gaming laptop or even a monitor,
8:27
Speaker 1: but it's on the device on your head, the oculus.
8:31
Speaker 1: So he's playing this game and you just told me
8:34
Speaker 1: to call parton that he communicated with the guy that
8:37
Speaker 1: is a furry? Is that what you said? That's right?
8:40
Speaker 1: So twenty six year old Aaron Zeeman identifies as a furry.
8:45
Speaker 1: He has a self professed puppy fetish Stop right there.
8:52
Speaker 1: They did not teach me this in law school. I
8:56
Speaker 1: never had a case that I knew of where somebody
8:58
Speaker 1: was a furry. Luckily, I do know the phone number. Oh,
9:04
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile psycho alas joining me out
9:08
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. I bet you've seen a lot of
9:10
Speaker 1: furries out in Beverly Hills, Doctor Bethany. You can find
9:13
Speaker 1: her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and she's a
9:16
Speaker 1: star of Bling Empire on Netflix. Bethany, hit me tell
9:22
Speaker 1: me everything I need to know. Okay, well that's on
9:25
Speaker 1: a need to know basis. Need to know about furries
9:28
Speaker 1: because I want to figure out how in the hey,
9:31
Speaker 1: this little boy you just turn thirteen, he's just barely
9:34
Speaker 1: twelve years old, is talking to a furry fetishist online
9:40
Speaker 1: that somehow kidnaps him. Oh, Nancy, I don't even know
9:44
Speaker 1: where to start, and I'm a little afraid in terms
9:47
Speaker 1: of what I can say on air here. But furies
9:51
Speaker 1: are a group of men who are a fetishized community.
9:55
Speaker 1: And when I see fetishized, I mean that their sexual
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Speaker 1: interest is in tested in the idea of fur and
10:02
Speaker 1: in the case of this pedophile pedophilia, children rather than
10:06
Speaker 1: having true relationships with the people around them. So there's
10:10
Speaker 1: all kinds of fetishized communities that gather together online. There
10:15
Speaker 1: are chubby chasers, you know, men who like other men
10:18
Speaker 1: who are obese. There are furies. There are people who
10:23
Speaker 1: have puppy fetishes. Okay, just stuff right there a place.
10:26
Speaker 1: What's a puppy fetish? I don't even want to say, Nancy,
10:30
Speaker 1: I you know what you deal with with sex fetishists
10:35
Speaker 1: all day long, and then when I guess fairly normal
10:40
Speaker 1: person ask you a question, you clamb up and get shy.
10:44
Speaker 1: What is a puppy fetishist? Well, let me just say
10:47
Speaker 1: two things about this. I did treat a patients few
10:53
Speaker 1: years ago who had an animal fetish called when you
10:57
Speaker 1: call it a puppy fetish, you're kind of you you're
11:01
Speaker 1: to use your phrase putting perfume on the pig. But
11:04
Speaker 1: he had a sexual attraction towards the animal. Okay, I
11:07
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if he wanted to have relations with a
11:10
Speaker 1: puppy or if you wanted to be a puppy. Is
11:13
Speaker 1: it one or the other or both? Well, there are
11:17
Speaker 1: two things that come to mind. One is the stality.
11:21
Speaker 1: The other is in certain communities they'd love to do
11:24
Speaker 1: something called a puppy pile. Have you ever heard of that?
11:27
Speaker 1: Thankfully no, but I think you're going to enlighten me. Yes,
11:31
Speaker 1: a puppy pile is with a group of men go
11:34
Speaker 1: on a retreat. Why is it always men? No offense,
11:37
Speaker 1: Derek Ellington? But why is it always men? Are there
11:41
Speaker 1: any women furies? There's gotta be yes, there are no
11:45
Speaker 1: women furies? Jackie. You answered a little too quickly? Is
11:50
Speaker 1: that Jerry Ellington wants and certify forensic examiner license private
11:56
Speaker 1: investigator Ellington Digital Forensics www dot Ellington dot net. That
12:01
Speaker 1: was a mouthful. Also with a Wendy Murphy, you know
12:05
Speaker 1: her well, Professor of Sexual Violence Law at New England
12:10
Speaker 1: Law co Director Women's and Children's Advocacy Project. It goes
12:15
Speaker 1: on and on and on, Wendy, thank you for joining us.
12:18
Speaker 1: Darry Ellington jump in, well in first, I want to
12:21
Speaker 1: say that that I want to make sure that we
12:24
Speaker 1: understand that there are there's a range, there's a spectrum.
12:28
Speaker 1: There are people men and women who you know, they
12:31
Speaker 1: have conventions. They like to dress up in very elaborate costumes,
12:35
Speaker 1: they like to pretend to be different kind of animals,
12:37
Speaker 1: and for a large portion of them, it's not a
12:39
Speaker 1: sexual thing. The problem, just like anything else, is that
12:43
Speaker 1: you do have groups that, you know, gravitate towards the
12:49
Speaker 1: deviance of it, and that's where the concern is. And
12:52
Speaker 1: as she stated, yes, there are people who who approach
12:56
Speaker 1: it from a sexual standpoint, but I think it's also
12:58
Speaker 1: important to know that there is a I hate to
13:01
Speaker 1: say mainstream, but there is a somewhat normal element to
13:05
Speaker 1: it of people who just like to wear costumes. Okay,
13:08
Speaker 1: Dared Ellington, maybe in your world is normal, but FYI,
13:13
Speaker 1: it's not normal and everybody else's world. Yeah to two
13:17
Speaker 1: eye of the beholder. But I want to I do
13:18
Speaker 1: want to address something when we were talking about the
13:21
Speaker 1: Oculus and you know, mom talking about taking the steps.
13:25
Speaker 1: The one thing we have to remember with any of
13:27
Speaker 1: these electronic devices, any of these gaming devices, even your
13:31
Speaker 1: firestick used to watch TV, if it has a web
13:35
Speaker 1: browser like Oculus does, like Nintendo DS, is do you
13:39
Speaker 1: have the whole of the Internet at your disposal. So
13:42
Speaker 1: while parents often view these things as gaming systems, they're
13:47
Speaker 1: effectively still cell phones. You know, they have headsets, they
13:50
Speaker 1: have cameras, they have access to the Internet, and parents
13:53
Speaker 1: need to understand that. Another thing I wanted to point
13:57
Speaker 1: out Roadblocks while we're focusing on the misuse of Roadblocks,
14:04
Speaker 1: it is a very valuable thing. It is a good
14:07
Speaker 1: community kids can play and interact with other kids. What
14:10
Speaker 1: is important is that Roadblocks has tools to make sure
14:15
Speaker 1: that your children can only chat. There are settings they
14:18
Speaker 1: can only chat with people on their friends list, and
14:21
Speaker 1: it's important that parents know who those friends are. If
14:25
Speaker 1: you wouldn't let a random stranger come and sit on
14:27
Speaker 1: your couch and play video games with your kid, you
14:30
Speaker 1: shouldn't let them do it over the internet. And it's
14:32
Speaker 1: very important. And I guess the final thing I will
14:34
Speaker 1: throw out there is the best that there's monitoring, there's blocking,
14:41
Speaker 1: but there's also talking to your kids. If your kids
14:43
Speaker 1: are excited about a game or a platform, listen to them,
14:47
Speaker 1: let them tell you about it. And as we always say,
14:50
Speaker 1: if they won't talk to you about the little stuff,
14:53
Speaker 1: they won't come to you with the big stuff. Crime
15:07
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now. Wendy Murphy,
15:12
Speaker 1: former child sex abuse and sex crimes prosecutor out of Middlesex,
15:16
Speaker 1: professor of Sex and Miles, New England Law and Boston,
15:20
Speaker 1: contributing editor with a sex assault report and author of
15:23
Speaker 1: and Justice for Some Wendy Murphy, thank you for being
15:27
Speaker 1: with us jump In. This is one of those stories
15:30
Speaker 1: that really caught my interests because I actually have several
15:33
Speaker 1: cases right now, pending cases with real kids, all of
15:37
Speaker 1: my clients having to be girls, but of course boys
15:40
Speaker 1: are equally vulnerable. They're all in that same age range
15:43
Speaker 1: twelve to thirteen, all of them very well cared for
15:47
Speaker 1: and monitored by their parents, and all of them fell
15:50
Speaker 1: victim in one way or another. Luckily none have been kidnapped.
15:53
Speaker 1: But I want to say a couple of things. One is,
15:56
Speaker 1: even when you are doing everything right as a parent,
15:59
Speaker 1: there's still, you know, a community out there or predators
16:02
Speaker 1: who will find a way to find your child. We
16:04
Speaker 1: just need to know that there's nothing you can do
16:06
Speaker 1: that's perfect, but you have to do as much as possible.
16:09
Speaker 1: And one of the things the parents of my clients
16:12
Speaker 1: have told me is they didn't think they had to
16:15
Speaker 1: have this tough conversation about deviant sexual stuff online until
16:19
Speaker 1: their kids were a little bit older, and that may
16:22
Speaker 1: have been true some years ago, but what I've been hearing,
16:25
Speaker 1: especially from the experts in the community who care about
16:28
Speaker 1: sexual exploitation of children, is that you really have to
16:31
Speaker 1: start having that conversation around nine or ten, before they
16:34
Speaker 1: hit puberty, because that's when they become super vulnerable. And
16:37
Speaker 1: by vulnerable, I mean they're not only going through a
16:41
Speaker 1: really tough time, and they're entering puberty, which can be exciting,
16:46
Speaker 1: not just you know, challenging physiologically, but exciting to them.
16:50
Speaker 1: When they're reaching sexuality and starting to figure out what
16:53
Speaker 1: it means to have sexual feelings, that's when they're the
16:56
Speaker 1: most vulnerable. That's also when they're least likely to talk
16:59
Speaker 1: to their parents because it's about sex. So you have
17:02
Speaker 1: to reach them before that happens and get them thinking about, unfortunately,
17:07
Speaker 1: these terrible things so that they can anticipate and see
17:10
Speaker 1: it and recognize it and know that it's bad, not fun,
17:13
Speaker 1: not exciting, not my friend, not a guy I should
17:16
Speaker 1: go meet with, but really a dangerous, really dangerous person.
17:19
Speaker 1: Nine or ten sounds super young, but it probably is
17:22
Speaker 1: the age when parents need to start having these conversations.
17:25
Speaker 1: And let me just say one of the quick things.
17:27
Speaker 1: When I hear language like furry and minor attracted person
17:31
Speaker 1: and even the word pedophile, I want to rip my
17:34
Speaker 1: skin off because those are arguably euphemistic versions of the
17:39
Speaker 1: word rapits. I agree on Wendy Murphy, you are so right,
17:44
Speaker 1: and Wendy, I'm going to read them and just a
17:47
Speaker 1: moment unless I can cajole Nicole Parton to do it.
17:51
Speaker 1: Have you seen what this guy is saying to this
17:55
Speaker 1: little boy about having furry sex with Yes turned thirteen
18:01
Speaker 1: a couple of months before he was twelve years old.
18:04
Speaker 1: That Turvolge is Nancy, Nancy. If I couldn't jump in
18:08
Speaker 1: about this gentle moment, and Wendy is saying, to talk
18:12
Speaker 1: to your your nine year old, I would say even
18:14
Speaker 1: six seven, eight year old, Dear Lord and Heaven, Bethany, well,
18:17
Speaker 1: hold on. You can always use developmentally appropriate language to
18:22
Speaker 1: a six year old. You could even say, you know,
18:24
Speaker 1: sometimes there's there's bad people. Not everyone's bad, but they're
18:28
Speaker 1: just a very concrete term. And by the time they
18:32
Speaker 1: get to seven or eight, you can say, you know,
18:34
Speaker 1: some some adults may want to spend time with you
18:37
Speaker 1: without telling mommy and daddy. You know, that is not
18:41
Speaker 1: a good thing. But by the time they get to
18:43
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, the language begins to change. So find
18:47
Speaker 1: out what your child's developmentally capable of understanding before you
18:52
Speaker 1: have the Oh, dear Lord in Heaven. Sorry, Bethany, I
18:57
Speaker 1: just look at a photo. Don't do that from the
19:02
Speaker 1: Post Millennial? Is it the stocking? I was reading an article.
19:06
Speaker 1: I was reading an article and I scrolled down and
19:09
Speaker 1: here is who I think is the purpose in this case,
19:13
Speaker 1: but naked. Except he's got on a pair of thigh
19:17
Speaker 1: high striped socks and gloves to match, and he's wearing
19:24
Speaker 1: kind of a cat hat. The rest of him is
19:27
Speaker 1: naked and apparently he's sent this to the little boy. Well,
19:31
Speaker 1: I'm not going to push it off on you. This
19:33
Speaker 1: is one from Hunter Flufy Fox. A d. Nancy. This
19:39
Speaker 1: is Titania at Hunter Horny Fox. What I just want
19:44
Speaker 1: to say two things. One is why did Twitter allow
19:49
Speaker 1: this type of content on their platform? We need to
19:52
Speaker 1: tag there? Did I read the text? For Pete's sake?
19:56
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, is this Titania? Yeah? I hate to
20:00
Speaker 1: reprimand you because you never jump in. Okay, all right,
20:03
Speaker 1: I'll reprimand myself for reprimanding you. Hold on, this is
20:07
Speaker 1: Hunter Horny Fox. I would do a backflip down the
20:14
Speaker 1: stairs if Hunter Horny Fox was communicating with one of
20:19
Speaker 1: my twins. This is why parents go shoot mollusters. This
20:24
Speaker 1: is why they do because honestly, right now, my fingers
20:26
Speaker 1: are tingling. Okay, my kids twenty seven, and let's do
20:30
Speaker 1: this to eight, just turned thirteen year old, A frill
20:35
Speaker 1: looking twelve year old little boy. I love you so
20:40
Speaker 1: heck and much, my lamb. I was looking at your
20:43
Speaker 1: pictures and many uses. Lord's zing in vain. I want
20:47
Speaker 1: to slide into your throat so bad. Give daddy's tip
20:53
Speaker 1: a little kiss. Then let me fill my baby boys
20:57
Speaker 1: soft beautiful lips my love pretty please, babe. Then he
21:04
Speaker 1: goes on to say, which I started to say more disturbingly,
21:07
Speaker 1: but I don't know what can be as disturbing is
21:11
Speaker 1: that my lamb and I are getting married on the
21:13
Speaker 1: trail we he I love you, my Lamb. I'm thinking
21:18
Speaker 1: about sharing some big news. Any mechanic furies in my
21:23
Speaker 1: neck of the desert helped me sure the new car
21:26
Speaker 1: is not broken. He's going to take the boy across
21:32
Speaker 1: the desert. Guys, take a listen to our cut for
21:35
Speaker 1: our friend Andrew Adams. Well, we initially found out what
21:38
Speaker 1: was going on. We took all means a way out.
21:42
Speaker 1: We knew that we thought anything we thought. The family
21:45
Speaker 1: handed the device over to Layton Police, but on Monday,
21:48
Speaker 1: just after the family returned from a holiday vacation, Trouble
21:52
Speaker 1: serviced again. He was communicating on an Oculus device with
21:55
Speaker 1: the suspect, and it had a record of their communication.
21:59
Speaker 1: Back in Portland, detectives believe Evan mcconnie left home just
22:03
Speaker 1: before midnight with the man they've since identified as Aaron
22:06
Speaker 1: Zeeman of Arizona. They say the shirtless, backpack wearing strangers
22:10
Speaker 1: seen here had used a fake name. The communication that
22:13
Speaker 1: they'd had was of a nature that is quite concerning
22:17
Speaker 1: to us. Well, that's certainly one way of putting it,
22:19
Speaker 1: and I'll use my own phrise putting perfume on a pig.
22:23
Speaker 1: It's of sexual content, luring a just turned thirteen year
22:29
Speaker 1: oh little boy through his game he's playing on a
22:32
Speaker 1: device and more from KSL. Listen, I don't understand what
22:36
Speaker 1: this person had on my son, what grasp he had
22:41
Speaker 1: on him that convinced to him. Does a block away.
22:49
Speaker 1: Mom has been completely distraught since any parent who would
22:53
Speaker 1: be standing in this position has an idea of the
22:55
Speaker 1: words that I would want to say, but I won't
22:58
Speaker 1: do that. She's open HER's son or return home safely.
23:02
Speaker 1: Nobody's mad at you. We get it, We understand where
23:08
Speaker 1: you're a family. We're not going anywhere. We'll always be
23:12
Speaker 1: here for you no matter what. Please come home. Do
23:15
Speaker 1: you know how these ordeals typically end and the death
23:20
Speaker 1: the murdyr of the child. The search is on for
23:24
Speaker 1: the so called furry who says he is quote in
23:28
Speaker 1: love with the little boy. Listen to Andrew Adams KSL
23:33
Speaker 1: just repeating one more time that police just within the
23:35
Speaker 1: last little bit coming out with suspect information, new suspect
23:39
Speaker 1: information looking for twenty six year old Aaron Zeeman of Arizona,
23:42
Speaker 1: also goes by the name Tadashi Kojima. He is driving
23:45
Speaker 1: a nineteen ninety eight white Toyota Avalon with damage to
23:48
Speaker 1: the front grille, temporary Arizona plate of two two two
23:52
Speaker 1: two five MP. Anybody with information called Laton Police. Well
23:57
Speaker 1: the way that as I understand it, Nicole Partons wanting
24:00
Speaker 1: me from crime online dot Com. Cops figured out the
24:04
Speaker 1: license tag was that they looked on the Sun's oculus
24:08
Speaker 1: and they got the screen name or even the real name,
24:11
Speaker 1: and then backtracked it through registration records and dm V
24:16
Speaker 1: Department of Motor Vehicles and got the car make and
24:19
Speaker 1: model and the license plate. Then the search was on.
24:23
Speaker 1: Is that how they did it? Nicole Parton, Right, that's correct.
24:26
Speaker 1: And we have to remember too that the parents had
24:31
Speaker 1: alerted authorities of this gentleman's screen name after seeing it
24:36
Speaker 1: on their son's phone. And isn't it should Nicole Parton,
24:39
Speaker 1: The parents say they thought they did everything quote right.
24:43
Speaker 1: They took away Evans devices. They did at one point
24:48
Speaker 1: they made him aware of the dangers online. They were
24:52
Speaker 1: doing everything right, correct, right, They took the phone, they
24:56
Speaker 1: took the laptop, they had the conversations, but in the end,
25:01
Speaker 1: that gaming device was left in the room. And going
25:05
Speaker 1: back to what we've heard, our experts say that gaming
25:08
Speaker 1: device is open access. You know something Wendy Murphy just said,
25:14
Speaker 1: following up on what Nicole Partner is saying that any
25:16
Speaker 1: gaming device, or as Darry Ellington said, even your firestick
25:20
Speaker 1: that you may use to control your TVs, it has
25:24
Speaker 1: web access. Wendy Murphy that one thing the oculus, And
25:28
Speaker 1: you were saying, Wendy, no matter how hard you try,
25:31
Speaker 1: you got to realize the predators. It's like the devil. Yep,
25:36
Speaker 1: never give up. Once they want your child, they'll do
25:40
Speaker 1: anything to get your child. Yes, And technologically speaking, they
25:45
Speaker 1: are always a step ahead, not just a step ahead
25:47
Speaker 1: of parents, but usually a step ahead, a step ahead
25:50
Speaker 1: of law enforcement. And technologically speaking, they're even sometimes ahead
25:55
Speaker 1: of the protective mechanisms that platforms have in place to
26:00
Speaker 1: protect kids. So you know, to me, the big bad
26:03
Speaker 1: guy in this story, Nancy, is law enforcement. I mean
26:07
Speaker 1: the mom they went to the police, they said, look
26:10
Speaker 1: what this guy is saying, and you read some of it.
26:13
Speaker 1: Look what this man is saying to my child. And
26:16
Speaker 1: what did the police say, Sorry, nothing we can do.
26:18
Speaker 1: Keep doing a good job monitoring. Well, you know the
26:21
Speaker 1: reality is, and that's exactly what cops have said in
26:24
Speaker 1: the cases that I'm managing right now on behalf of
26:26
Speaker 1: similarly aged kids. When you go to the police and
26:30
Speaker 1: they see this activity and your child han't yet been kidnapped,
26:33
Speaker 1: they're nine times out of ten going to say, sorry,
26:35
Speaker 1: there's nothing we can do. That's not good enough. It
26:39
Speaker 1: is a resources issue, not a law issue. We don't
26:41
Speaker 1: need new laws. We need to prioritize this behavior, even
26:46
Speaker 1: though it hasn't yet led to a child being kidnapped.
26:48
Speaker 1: We need to prioritize law enforcement's interest in the grooming
26:52
Speaker 1: process so that these monsters get the message I better
26:57
Speaker 1: not do this or I'm going to jail. And speaking
27:00
Speaker 1: of what she found, Wendy Murphy, you're absolutely right about
27:03
Speaker 1: what she found. And one photo the suspect posted at
27:08
Speaker 1: texts about having his quote LAMB perform oral sex on
27:12
Speaker 1: him and sent a photo of his erect penis. Now
27:17
Speaker 1: do I like talking about this? No? I don't like
27:20
Speaker 1: talking about this. Is this the truth? Yes, it's the truth.
27:24
Speaker 1: Do I want you to know? Yes? I want you
27:26
Speaker 1: to know because as shocking and as revolting as it
27:30
Speaker 1: may be, this is the only way we can fight
27:33
Speaker 1: back against pedophiles. I want you to hear our cut
27:38
Speaker 1: B from our friends at crime online dot Com. The
27:42
Speaker 1: investigation revealed Evan McConney and his online friend had been
27:46
Speaker 1: exchanging sexual and inappropriate messages for about three weeks. The
27:51
Speaker 1: connection was made through the game roeblocks, and the two
27:54
Speaker 1: reportedly communicated through oculus of virtual reality device. Now. Remember's mom,
28:00
Speaker 1: Heather mccanney, had taken steps to end the contact, but
28:04
Speaker 1: the two reportedly found new ways to talk. Mcconnee also
28:07
Speaker 1: joined a Discord chat at his new friend's invitation. It
28:11
Speaker 1: was through those chats that the two allegedly arranged to
28:14
Speaker 1: have mcconnie picked up from his home. Evan even took
28:18
Speaker 1: his passport with him after his new friend encouraged him too.
28:22
Speaker 1: Dear Lord in Heaven, the child took his passport. What
28:26
Speaker 1: say go oversees what they leave this country? It's like
28:29
Speaker 1: finding a needle in a haystack. Tatonia and Jordan is
28:32
Speaker 1: joining me, Chief Parenting officer at Bart Technologies explain what
28:36
Speaker 1: is Discord. Discord is a very popular community and social
28:41
Speaker 1: media platform now that so many kids are on, so
28:44
Speaker 1: many predators are on, and so many parents have no
28:47
Speaker 1: idea what it is. It's essentially built around gaming and
28:52
Speaker 1: conversation dround gaming, but you can chat in it, you
28:55
Speaker 1: can video chat, you can leave messages. It's not a
28:59
Speaker 1: safe places for kids. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Wendy
29:18
Speaker 1: Murphy was bringing up something earlier and I want to
29:21
Speaker 1: throw this to Derek Ellington and doctor Bethany first to you. Derek.
29:25
Speaker 1: You can find Derek who is a PI and a
29:28
Speaker 1: forensics examiner at Ellington Digital Forensics. Derek, um, it is
29:34
Speaker 1: believe this guy later wrote, I'm the MAP, I'm the map,
29:39
Speaker 1: I'm the map MAP. We all know that that refers
29:44
Speaker 1: to it's an acronym for a minor attracted person, which
29:50
Speaker 1: means a child rapist. That's what that is. It's child molester.
29:54
Speaker 1: So what are you making of what you're hearing? Derek Ellington, Well,
29:58
Speaker 1: what I want to stress, Nancy, we're talking today about
30:03
Speaker 1: you know, I would say an extreme case. We're focusing
30:05
Speaker 1: on the furry and everything like that. Well, any child rape,
30:09
Speaker 1: which happens all the time, is happening right now. I
30:11
Speaker 1: don't care if you're wearing a dog costume at the
30:13
Speaker 1: time you do it. I mean, it's nothing to me.
30:15
Speaker 1: What parents need to understand is the technology is a
30:19
Speaker 1: way that the predators can find their children, but it's
30:23
Speaker 1: also a way where predators can communicate securely with their children.
30:27
Speaker 1: And what parents need to understand is while we're talking
30:31
Speaker 1: about this case and this person right now, this could
30:35
Speaker 1: easily be and in my line of work, a little league,
30:38
Speaker 1: youth coach, a youth pastor from a church, a next
30:42
Speaker 1: door neighbor, you know, a family member. So what we
30:46
Speaker 1: also have to focus on is sometimes they find our
30:49
Speaker 1: children in other ways, and the platforms are how they
30:52
Speaker 1: communicate discreetly. So let's not just think that we have
30:55
Speaker 1: to worry about the furry. We have to worry about
30:59
Speaker 1: anyone who dinner working with our children, do Bethany Champion? Yeah, well,
31:05
Speaker 1: I think it's important for parents to understand there's predictable
31:08
Speaker 1: stages of grooming, whether your child is predated upon by
31:12
Speaker 1: the high school coach, the little league coach, or online,
31:16
Speaker 1: and that is they make your child feel special. They
31:18
Speaker 1: offer gifts and treats like these online coins or whatever.
31:24
Speaker 1: Then they begin to tell the child, you know, your
31:27
Speaker 1: parents don't understand you. I understand you so much better.
31:30
Speaker 1: You're so smart or so strong. Why don't your parents
31:33
Speaker 1: see how great you are? The child starts to fall
31:36
Speaker 1: for it and begins to drift further and further away
31:39
Speaker 1: from the parents, which follows a very important developmental line
31:43
Speaker 1: is by the time the child is ten, eleven, twelve,
31:46
Speaker 1: they're beginning to separate from their parents and become more autonomous,
31:50
Speaker 1: so this becomes a deviant form of a normal developmental trend.
31:55
Speaker 1: Then by the child time, the child is so far
31:59
Speaker 1: in the pedophile has drawn them into a paranoid world
32:03
Speaker 1: where the child believes that nobody else can understand them,
32:08
Speaker 1: give them a better life off of them, gifts make
32:10
Speaker 1: them feel important. But that particular pedophile once they act out,
32:16
Speaker 1: once they have sex, once they're enticed, then they feel
32:20
Speaker 1: guilty and it becomes even more difficult for them to
32:23
Speaker 1: tell the parent Nancy. From both the pedophile and the
32:27
Speaker 1: child's vantage point, these relationships are strong. They're strong, they
32:34
Speaker 1: get stronger every day. I once treated a patient who
32:37
Speaker 1: is predated upon by a priest many years ago, and
32:40
Speaker 1: that the priests would come over for Sunday lunch and
32:43
Speaker 1: would come by in the evening and would bring my
32:46
Speaker 1: patient into another room and you know, sexually accost him.
32:51
Speaker 1: And it happened hundreds and thousands of times from the
32:54
Speaker 1: time my patient was seven or eight till he was
32:58
Speaker 1: twenty four years old. The priest was so obsessed with
33:02
Speaker 1: him that he finally, finally was able to emancipate himself
33:05
Speaker 1: from the priest and get a restraining order. But this
33:08
Speaker 1: is not just some stranger raping you in the park.
33:12
Speaker 1: This is a man in this case who became obsessed
33:15
Speaker 1: with this child. And now we'll do everything possible to
33:19
Speaker 1: gain access to the child, even while he even in jail,
33:22
Speaker 1: and if he ever gets out of jail, doors will
33:25
Speaker 1: be obsessed, Doctor Bethany, I hear what you and Ellington
33:29
Speaker 1: are saying. I hear it. I hear it, I hear it.
33:31
Speaker 1: But I got a question. Yeah, I don't understand a
33:34
Speaker 1: furry What do they What is the enticement, what is
33:39
Speaker 1: the appeal opportunding to be an animal? What is that
33:44
Speaker 1: somehow freeing to them that they don't have to conform
33:47
Speaker 1: to the society norms? Why do they want to be
33:52
Speaker 1: a dog? Well maybe, well just go ahead. You're dealing
33:57
Speaker 1: with a lot of people who typically have social issues,
34:01
Speaker 1: maybe they're on the spectrum, Maybe they have problems communicating
34:05
Speaker 1: in person. The furry persona gives them a bit of anonymity,
34:10
Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like their own cloak of protection
34:15
Speaker 1: to be an anonymous person and allow them then to
34:18
Speaker 1: communicate with other people's That's where the attraction I think
34:21
Speaker 1: comes from. Can you add anything to that, doctor, Bethley,
34:23
Speaker 1: I will definitely add, as with any fetish or perversion,
34:27
Speaker 1: it is on a spectrum, on a scale. As Derek
34:29
Speaker 1: said earlier, so beautifully. So think about a convection. At
34:32
Speaker 1: convention of furies, they're all gathering together. At the most
34:36
Speaker 1: perverse end. You're going to have somebody for whom bodily hair,
34:40
Speaker 1: pubic hair is the most enticing sexual aspect of another person,
34:46
Speaker 1: so they make that fancy and call it a fury.
34:49
Speaker 1: Then you're going to have you know, adolescents, teenagers, young
34:52
Speaker 1: adults dressing up in one'siees that have fur all over
34:56
Speaker 1: them and they just think being a furry is silly.
34:58
Speaker 1: So that's at the other into the spectrum. Oh my goodness,
35:01
Speaker 1: my daughter said somebody at school was a furry, and
35:04
Speaker 1: of course I thought that meant a sex. David, I'm like,
35:07
Speaker 1: why did you say that, so and so's a furry
35:10
Speaker 1: and she said, oh, she likes to dress up in whatever,
35:14
Speaker 1: the zebra pajamas or whatever. And I didn't say anything,
35:18
Speaker 1: but I thought that that's not my understanding of what
35:20
Speaker 1: a furry is. So could you please cut the chase
35:23
Speaker 1: and tell me the attraction of being a fury just
35:26
Speaker 1: in one sentence, Bethanie one sentence. As with any perversion,
35:31
Speaker 1: the attraction is to an aspect of the person rather
35:34
Speaker 1: than to whom the other person is. Okay, and I
35:37
Speaker 1: guess that would be fur Okay, you're over a sentence, guys,
35:40
Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. To this this communication
35:45
Speaker 1: sent by hunter Flopy Fox to a just turned thirteen
35:49
Speaker 1: year old boy. All supplied up now and that's for
35:53
Speaker 1: their trip. Hella hornied up to see my man. Oops,
35:57
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a fox after all. No, I'm in love,
36:00
Speaker 1: Oh marsh, beside you with pride, my lamb, I love
36:04
Speaker 1: you with all my heart and saw so you loving
36:06
Speaker 1: sexy frigger. You'll be in my arms soon. Okay. With
36:14
Speaker 1: the parents thinking they had done everything right and finding
36:17
Speaker 1: out their son still communicated with this guy on Oculus,
36:21
Speaker 1: which is a virtual reality headset. Take a list of
36:24
Speaker 1: our cut thirteen our friend Kristin McPeak. The suspect is
36:28
Speaker 1: twenty six year old Aaron Zeeman from Arizona. He also
36:31
Speaker 1: goes by the name Tadashi Kojima. Please say. He drove
36:36
Speaker 1: from Arizona to Utah and waited a few days for
36:38
Speaker 1: the thirteen year old to come back home from vacation
36:42
Speaker 1: with his family, and then the two left together. It
36:47
Speaker 1: looks from the communication that they had like they had
36:51
Speaker 1: prearranged this, and the boy left willingly. I think the
36:55
Speaker 1: parents did everything they could in this instance. This was
36:58
Speaker 1: just a persistent suspect and perpetrator that ended up taking
37:03
Speaker 1: this boy. Do you hear the persistence the cop is
37:06
Speaker 1: talking about this furry child molester drives from Arizona to
37:12
Speaker 1: Utah to get the boy, all right, This is after
37:15
Speaker 1: the parents have taken away the boy's devices. He drives
37:18
Speaker 1: that far. Then he finds out the family's got on vacation,
37:22
Speaker 1: and I see a communication. Where has my little Lamb gone?
37:26
Speaker 1: Little Lamb is on a family vacation and away from
37:28
Speaker 1: his oculus. He waits, He waits in the neighborhood until
37:34
Speaker 1: the family gets back, and then he spies on the
37:38
Speaker 1: little boy. What we know is that a close family friend,
37:43
Speaker 1: Beth Cooper, says she learns more about the Amber alert
37:47
Speaker 1: system than she ever wanted to know. How did they
37:50
Speaker 1: know the car because a neighbor's home surveillance video caught
37:57
Speaker 1: the car and immediately turned it in. As soon as
38:03
Speaker 1: that image of the kidnappers car was revealed and Amber
38:08
Speaker 1: alert went out immediately. Wendy Murphy describe what is an
38:12
Speaker 1: amber alert? While an amber alert think God for the
38:16
Speaker 1: development of this technology is an incredibly helpful tool that
38:21
Speaker 1: goes out instantly, issued by law enforce, yes to literally
38:26
Speaker 1: the whole world as soon as a child goes missing,
38:29
Speaker 1: exactly and they in some jurisdictions you need a car
38:33
Speaker 1: to go with it, and some you don't. Thank goodness,
38:36
Speaker 1: as Wendy just said, it went out immediately when the
38:39
Speaker 1: neighbor spotted a car in the neighborhood in front of
38:42
Speaker 1: the little boy's house. If that hadn't happened, then this
38:46
Speaker 1: would never happen. Take a listen to Cole miller ks
38:49
Speaker 1: in b R Cut fourteen. What started as a call
38:52
Speaker 1: to police about a suspicious person at a Grand Island
38:55
Speaker 1: gas station ended with a twenty six year old man
38:58
Speaker 1: in jail and he remains tonight, accused of kidnapping a
39:02
Speaker 1: thirteen year old from Utah. That boy is now safe,
39:05
Speaker 1: his parents breathing a huge sigh of relief. We have
39:09
Speaker 1: learned that the boy had been chatting with twenty six
39:11
Speaker 1: year old to Dashi Kojimi, who is from Arizona through
39:15
Speaker 1: an online video game. The conversations then moved to techs
39:19
Speaker 1: and FaceTime call. Then the ambreller was issued. The boy
39:23
Speaker 1: who was missing was spotted at a gas station when
39:26
Speaker 1: the gas station attendant thought that the adult and the
39:30
Speaker 1: little boy were in the car for way too long.
39:35
Speaker 1: To Nicole Parton joining us Crime online, what aroused the
39:39
Speaker 1: gas station attendant's interest. So the attendant think God was
39:43
Speaker 1: paying attention and noticed the car pull up to the
39:46
Speaker 1: gas pump, but no one got out. The pump gas
39:49
Speaker 1: and the car set there, and the car was there
39:52
Speaker 1: and there and there, and no one got out. Eventually
39:55
Speaker 1: the car made a circle and went out the wrong
39:58
Speaker 1: way of the gas station, going down a one way,
40:01
Speaker 1: pulled back in and sat in the parking lot again.
40:03
Speaker 1: And that's when the attendant noticed there was an adult
40:06
Speaker 1: man and a young child in the car. And that
40:09
Speaker 1: caused that attendant to say, something seems a miss here.
40:13
Speaker 1: This car has been sitting, no one pumped of gas.
40:16
Speaker 1: There's a child with an adult. They're not acting like
40:19
Speaker 1: a parent and a child. And so that attendant called
40:21
Speaker 1: nine one Ycholas our cut seven. This is a Lieutenant
40:24
Speaker 1: Travis l'man Laton PD. Just after one o'clock this morning,
40:28
Speaker 1: we got a notification from Grand Island, Nebraska Police Department
40:33
Speaker 1: out there that they had located both the suspect and
40:36
Speaker 1: the victim in this case. Alert gas station attendant had
40:41
Speaker 1: actually thought something looked suspicious about the car, and these
40:43
Speaker 1: people that were there at the gas station called the
40:46
Speaker 1: police department, and they responded, looked into it, separated the
40:50
Speaker 1: two of them, and identified our victim in this case
40:53
Speaker 1: as being somebody who we had listed as kidnapped and
40:56
Speaker 1: missing and rescued him. So we're sure grateful, as is
41:00
Speaker 1: the family. As you can imagine, you may have noticed
41:03
Speaker 1: at the beginning of our conversation several of us were
41:06
Speaker 1: actually smiling and laughing because we knew a little boy lived,
41:13
Speaker 1: and it is so rare and joyous that a child
41:18
Speaker 1: escapes an ordeal like this alive. Please protect your children.
41:24
Speaker 1: It's hard to understand in this world how to do that.
41:30
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,