Latest / Constellations and all that... / 14. The Profound Impact of Systemic Constellation Work with Margarete Koenning

Transcript

14. The Profound Impact of Systemic Constellation Work with Margarete Koenning · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Before you start listening to this episode, I just wanted to tell you about my New Year's Meditation.
• 0:06
  Tracy: You can receive this by registering on my website, and you can listen to this at any time.
• 0:12
  Tracy: Jump over to tracycartwright.
• 0:14
  Tracy: co.
• 0:15
  Tracy: nz to receive this free.
• 0:17
  Tracy: Download.
• 0:23
  Tracy: Kia ora and welcome to constellations and all that.
• 0:26
  Tracy: I'm your host Tracy Cartwright and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators and clients from around the world.
• 0:36
  Tracy: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in Constellations, we'd love for you to join us.
• 0:48
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:56
  Tracy: Beautiful kia ora everyone, welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 1:01
  Tracy: Today I have the utmost pleasure of talking to the amazing Marguerite Koenig, Koenig, Koenig, Koenig, Marguerite.
• 1:11
  Tracy: Generally when I do, when I do these chats, interviews, whatever you want to call them, conversations, I don't introduce you like most podcasts do.
• 1:21
  Tracy: Hosts do, they often have a little blurb and introduce you.
• 1:25
  Tracy: I like my guests to introduce themselves, so you can share as much or as little as you like about yourself.
• 1:34
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 1:34
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 1:36
  Margarete: Thank you for that, Tracy.
• 1:37
  Margarete: First, first, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land where I'm coming from and where I am actually talking from, the Gabi Gabi and the Jinibara people.
• 1:48
  Margarete: And I'm really delighted to actually be here and have this conversation with you.
• 1:54
  Margarete: My name is Marguerite Koenig and yeah, I'm born in Colombia.
• 1:58
  Margarete: immigrated to, or went back actually to Germany, grew up in Germany and immigrated to Australia 33 years ago.
• 2:08
  Margarete: I'm a Gestalt therapist, uh, since over 40 years and I met constellation work, you know, I'm a social worker.
• 2:17
  Margarete: My background is often, you know, that I worked with at the beginning with youth and then I went into the hospital system where I worked as a therapist in rehab for a long time.
• 2:30
  Margarete: And now I am here since 33 years in Mulaney in a small village where I have my private practice and training.
• 2:40
  Margarete: And I train international as well as, you know, like here in Australia since over 20 years with Constellation, but Gestalt much earlier than that.
• 2:52
  Margarete: Constellation work is really my passion.
• 2:55
  Margarete: So I'm delighted to have this conversation and I'm curious about all your questions you will ask.
• 3:02
  Tracy: I'm curious too because I usually leave that for the field to decide what I'm going to ask.
• 3:08
  Tracy: One thing that I do generally ask is how did you meet Constellations?
• 3:13
  Tracy: Like what was your first experience with it?
• 3:16
  Margarete: Yeah, so my first experience was probably different than from a lot of people because I met it in Germany, my first experience, and, um, in, in a, in a big, you know, wasn't a big group actually was a very intimate space of 35 people doing constellation in connection to Gestalt Therapy.
• 3:38
  Margarete: And it was a process which we did, you know, like over seven days intensive with that group.
• 3:45
  Margarete: And it blew me, I had worked, you know, since over 20 years at that point, uh, 20 years, around 20 years with, you know, with Gestalt therapy in a therapeutic sense.
• 3:58
  Margarete: And what really struck me in this workshop was how clean and direct actually this process can go like a Japanese sword to the core of the issues into the intergenerational connection of our being and how it really provided the much bigger field than just the personal exploration.
• 4:22
  Margarete: And that was, yeah, from then on, you know, like I traveled every year to Germany and had training with all sorts of different groups.
• 4:31
  Margarete: I then also went several times to Bernried, you know, to train with Gunni and Bertolt Ulzmer and, you know, also all the first generation people who were there at that time.
• 4:47
  Margarete: And then we started actually in, I think it was Albrecht Marr, who I, he was one of the first people who, Francesca was, but also Albrecht Marr, who came to Australia.
• 5:00
  Margarete: It is actually very potent that we do this interview right now, because I have Bougoula Ladi here with me, uh, an elder, and she brought constellation work to Australia.
• 5:12
  Tracy: Wow.
• 5:12
  Tracy: We
• 5:12
  Margarete: just had that conversation, uh, yesterday, last night.
• 5:18
  Tracy: Oh, wow.
• 5:19
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:19
  Margarete: It's
• 5:20
  Tracy: amazing.
• 5:20
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 5:21
  Margarete: it is quite amazing, you know, like, and she's 84 and, um, yeah, very sharp in her mind and very beautiful human being.
• 5:31
  Margarete: And it's also nice to hear, you know, like how she got involved and how she brought it actually to Australia.
• 5:38
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 5:40
  Tracy: So when you, cause earlier you said that you were working with youth and in a different career, different line of work.
• 5:48
  Tracy: What have you used?
• 5:50
  Tracy: Or it's incorporated that with constellations, like taking your constellation to any sort of youth work.
• 5:57
  Margarete: I haven't, but I had, I had quite some young people being in my constellations, you know, like wherever I think, um, teenagers.
• 6:09
  Margarete: They love that work.
• 6:10
  Margarete: They really thrive, you know, in a way that is, I remember, you know, like one teenager and he was, um, you know, like, like a foster child being, you know, sent away, sent away and sent away.
• 6:24
  Margarete: And he came to me and he said, you know, Margarita, I want to take, you know, I want to be part of the group.
• 6:30
  Margarete: And I said, yeah, beautiful.
• 6:32
  Margarete: You know, like I invite you to be part of the school.
• 6:35
  Margarete: And for him, it was like he was blown away.
• 6:38
  Margarete: And at the end, it was very beautiful.
• 6:40
  Margarete: I said to him, you were invited, you know, and he wanted to pay me this 50.
• 6:45
  Margarete: He looked, you know, I said, you are really have the invitation.
• 6:49
  Margarete: You don't necessarily, you looked at me and said, no, Marguerite, no, I really, this work is so profound and changed my life that I want you to take my money.
• 7:00
  Margarete: And he tried to save that for quite a while, 50 was a lot of money, you know, for him.
• 7:07
  Margarete: So I think that Constellation work is particularly designed also, you know, to introduce young people into that, you know, intergenerational connection and the ancestral connection back and get them out of isolation these days.
• 7:26
  Tracy: Yeah, that's such a big thing, isn't it?
• 7:28
  Margarete: Yeah, definitely.
• 7:31
  Margarete: You know, with, with, because, you know, they have everything consistently on their devices and, and things, and, uh, often don't know how, how it is to be really socially adequate in a group of people.
• 7:45
  Tracy: I see that.
• 7:46
  Tracy: I have a teenager and he's kind of grown up being, he's not an only child.
• 7:51
  Tracy: You see, I've got older children as well, but there's a really big age gap between him and the next one to leave in years.
• 7:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Tracy: So it's another family system.
• 8:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 8:01
  Tracy: And, and I see that with him.
• 8:03
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 8:05
  Tracy: That's turning point.
• 8:07
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 8:09
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 8:10
  Tracy: So you are one of the founders or the founder of Institute?
• 8:18
  Margarete: Yeah, you know, like that actually probably came out of a different, um, different situation, I can say, you know, like, it's a founder or not founder.
• 8:29
  Margarete: I'm getting older, and I would like to pass on my knowledge.
• 8:33
  Margarete: And that's really something I really, um, That's why I love to teach.
• 8:37
  Margarete: That's why I would like to pass on.
• 8:39
  Margarete: Now I often sit here in my office, you know, and see all the books and all the writings and all that, what I have accumulated.
• 8:46
  Margarete: And I thought, you know, there has to be something where I can actually pass it on so that doesn't end up really in the rubbish or wherever.
• 8:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 8:56
  Margarete: And out of that idea, I had conversations with some younger colleagues, you know, who I, I had taught in the previous years, quite a while ago.
• 9:08
  Margarete: And so we had that conversation, and out of that conversation, we decided to open this academy, Systemic Constellation Academy, to actually, um, yeah, provide a body which, you know, with theoretical Online component, but also very face to face and magic experience wise to build a body and to build community in the constant constellation sense.
• 9:38
  Margarete: And it's, yeah, and that is, um, it's a very big privilege to have that created and we will see where we go and where we travel.
• 9:46
  Margarete: We are right at, you know, in a way, very fresh and at the beginning.
• 9:50
  Margarete: And so we will see where that goes.
• 9:53
  Margarete: And what's the name of your academy?
• 9:55
  Margarete: Systemic Constellation Academy.
• 9:58
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 9:58
  Tracy: Not, uh, dot au or just?
• 10:01
  Margarete: I actually, dot au, yeah, I think the young ones are.
• 10:06
  Tracy: We'll roll with that for now until we go on.
• 10:07
  Tracy: And the thread.
• 10:10
  Tracy: Okay, beautiful.
• 10:12
  Margarete: You know, one question which is looming or one thing I probably would like to share is, that also, you know, my interest in Constellation in particular is to, and very personal out of my, you know, history and out of my biography being, you know, born in, in a, in a South American country and then into a Western country and then back into Australia.
• 10:38
  Margarete: Here, this, where do I belong?
• 10:41
  Margarete: Huh?
• 10:42
  Margarete: What's my place?
• 10:43
  Margarete: Where, you know, where is my, ancestry.
• 10:47
  Margarete: And so it took me quite a while to actually see that that ancestry is walking with me consistently, you know, whichever land I walk, whichever place I go to.
• 10:58
  Margarete: And Constellation work brought something home to me that really reconciled also my shame of being German, you know, and having German ancestry.
• 11:09
  Margarete: And, um, you know, like, I think that was where Constellation work for me started is this.
• 11:17
  Margarete: Disconnection from our ancestry out of our shame.
• 11:21
  Margarete: We experienced through our parents and, you know, their shame.
• 11:26
  Margarete: Actually, I carried a lot of shame of my parents and to really see it's not mine.
• 11:31
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 11:32
  Margarete: And with deep respect for what their history and what their experience was, but to really see, you know, like I do not take that burden on and hide behind it.
• 11:43
  Margarete: So, this passion I really find is Leading people from disconnection to connectedness, you know, from isolation to connectedness.
• 11:54
  Margarete: You know, if it is young people, if it is older people, if it is, you know, people with addiction or anxiety or stress, you know, these days, there is so much overwhelm, so much, so much things we have to deal with, yeah?
• 12:09
  Margarete: And to find a place where they can really walk upright and be connected.
• 12:15
  Margarete: and open their eyes again to the love which is there.
• 12:20
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 12:21
  Tracy: I'd started some personal work when I met my, my second husband.
• 12:28
  Tracy: I'd had a lot of trauma.
• 12:30
  Tracy: And I think if I hadn't met constellations, I don't know that I would be here because of the amount, the way constellation shifts things and in the way and the layers that it shifts.
• 12:43
  Tracy: The work that I've done so far.
• 12:45
  Margarete: Beautiful.
• 12:46
  Margarete: Beautiful.
• 12:47
  Margarete: And you know, like that is for me, you know, like this, it bring brought me home.
• 12:52
  Margarete: Not only constellation, I must say gestalt too, you know, within the gestalt community and the process of gestalt therapy in that holistic sense.
• 13:01
  Margarete: But it brought me home to that, that I, you know, where I am also loved.
• 13:06
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Margarete: There is something in me and something in each of us.
• 13:14
  Margarete: Which hasn't been touched.
• 13:17
  Margarete: And that is a very profound concept.
• 13:20
  Tracy: And the beauty of this work is that you can feel
• 13:23
  Margarete: it, right?
• 13:24
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Margarete: That it is a somatic, yeah.
• 13:27
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 13:28
  Tracy: And you come out of the head, out of all that complicated thinking, da, da, and allow yourself, and there's this process of feeling.
• 13:37
  Tracy: It shifts the, yeah.
• 13:40
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 13:41
  Tracy: Expansion.
• 13:42
  Margarete: It is a process which actually really allows you to drop in to allow your nervous system to get healed and touched in a very somatic sense.
• 13:53
  Margarete: Yeah, where the nervous system gets really healed in a cellular level, rather than in a cognitive, where the phenomenology and the experience can integrate a new neural pathway.
• 14:09
  Tracy: Is there any constellations that you can think of that sort of stick with you, that things that over the years, there might be one or two, or you might have a dozen, I don't know, that you feel confident that you can share?
• 14:25
  Tracy: Without exposing anyone or maybe just the experience of it that the listeners.
• 14:32
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 14:34
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 14:34
  Margarete: I will hit one story, which really touched me that very deeply.
• 14:38
  Margarete: And that was in a one to one session, a young man.
• 14:42
  Margarete: I mean, I have lots of healing stories.
• 14:45
  Margarete: That is probably one.
• 14:46
  Margarete: unwritten book of one day, I would sit and write that.
• 14:52
  Margarete: But it is often these young men who, who are so disconnected to their, you know, male lineage.
• 15:00
  Margarete: I particularly probably, witness this in Australia where there is historically such a sense for male people.
• 15:12
  Margarete: I have to do it by myself, you know, where I can do it all and I don't need any support.
• 15:18
  Margarete: I don't know.
• 15:19
  Margarete: And when then, you know, really addictions or whatever other symptoms come in.
• 15:25
  Margarete: And this person, he was very stuck in his total isolation through some traumatic experiences, but with the concept of constellation and with the reconnection of that, he could feel his spine.
• 15:39
  Margarete: He started walking really tall and he started actually seeing the world in a different way.
• 15:45
  Margarete: He could feel like he could really feel.
• 15:49
  Margarete: You know, he went from a posture of this to a posture of really embracing, you know, his spine and his body, you know, and with that and walking into the community and receiving something totally new for him, where people looked at him and gave him smiles, he actually could collect the reconnection in himself.
• 16:14
  Margarete: And it took quite some time, but he was nearly like a melting process.
• 16:18
  Margarete: He melted more and more and more into that, being seen, proud, you know, full in his potential and own dignity.
• 16:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Tracy: It's hard to receive a smile, right, when you're looking down.
• 16:34
  Tracy: Correct.
• 16:35
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Tracy: To the same.
• 16:37
  Tracy: It's so beautiful.
• 16:38
  Margarete: So the environment actually even, you know, changed one.
• 16:42
  Margarete: And I, I mean, I, there is another story, which is probably quite profound.
• 16:47
  Margarete: I had a woman once, yeah, I will share that story.
• 16:50
  Margarete: And she would give me permission.
• 16:52
  Margarete: So, which is definitely, you know, she gave me permission to do that.
• 16:56
  Margarete: She was probably at that time in her fifties.
• 17:02
  Margarete: mid 50s, whatever.
• 17:04
  Margarete: It's quite a time, quite a while ago, and she came and she had adopted out a child when she was young, out of the pressure of her parents, you know, pregnant out of wedlock and not being able to, you know, sustain.
• 17:20
  Margarete: She didn't want to have an abortion and she didn't how to, you know, bring up her child and she was looking for her son for a long time and tried to, you know, organizations got involved, blah, blah, for five years, I think at that time.
• 17:39
  Margarete: And we did that piece of constellation where we brought him in and she could honor and actually tell him what happened from her perspective.
• 17:47
  Margarete: And also honor the parents who look, look after him.
• 17:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Tracy: That's so important, isn't it?
• 17:54
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 17:55
  Margarete: And I think it was three weeks later that she got a letter from him.
• 18:01
  Tracy: Oh, thank you.
• 18:01
  Tracy: That's me.
• 18:02
  Tracy: Goosebumps.
• 18:04
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 18:05
  Margarete: And he was very clear.
• 18:06
  Margarete: He didn't want to have much further contact, but you know, she, he honored her and acknowledged her and it's all she needed for that time to resolve in her way.
• 18:18
  Margarete: You know, now she knew was her own grief.
• 18:20
  Margarete: She still had to.
• 18:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Tracy: And she could move on.
• 18:25
  Tracy: Right.
• 18:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:27
  Tracy: We start, we get stuck in these times.
• 18:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Tracy: Right.
• 18:33
  Tracy: Fragment off, and we get stuck there sometimes, parts of us do anyway.
• 18:37
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 18:38
  Margarete: You know, and there is lots of examples, another young man who actually really struggled with addictions, highly addicted to alcohol, in earlier times drugs and heavy drugs and stuff like this, and he came to a workshop, was also his first experience.
• 18:57
  Margarete: And he had a huge conflict to his brother.
• 19:00
  Margarete: He had been dry and he didn't drink, but that night before he actually did.
• 19:05
  Margarete: And we had a really exploration what happened there in relation to that.
• 19:09
  Tracy: And
• 19:11
  Margarete: it was very clear that his father died when he was eight years old.
• 19:18
  Margarete: And that grief had never actually been grieved.
• 19:21
  Margarete: And how it also had to do with the relationship from the father to the grandfather, his grandfather, and was brought in.
• 19:32
  Margarete: Until then, at one point, I put the essence, this, you know, clear, clean essence of this ancestry behind him.
• 19:42
  Margarete: And he first time could really lie into that male lineage and receive something which he could.
• 19:51
  Margarete: And he was, yeah, he walked out a different man too.
• 19:56
  Margarete: Of this workshop and thank me very much.
• 19:59
  Margarete: Mm.
• 19:59
  Margarete: Or the group actually, because the group was mainly the part who holds that space.
• 20:05
  Margarete: And that's another thing which I really appreciate about this work.
• 20:09
  Margarete: You know, like when you work in a group setting, trauma occurs in isolation.
• 20:14
  Margarete: Huh?
• 20:15
  Margarete: That's true.
• 20:17
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 20:17
  Margarete: And the healing can only take place.
• 20:21
  Margarete: in connection.
• 20:23
  Margarete: That means that, you know, like sometimes we can do a lot of healing work here, but as soon as we move into the village or we meet other people, the whole trauma is coming up again.
• 20:37
  Margarete: And in constellation work, it is really the healing component is that you get witnessing and that you get feedback.
• 20:45
  Margarete: You get the feedback from the, from the community and from the environment.
• 20:50
  Margarete: Yeah, within your healing process, and that brings such a beauty and strength for the people.
• 20:57
  Margarete: Yeah, who are there as clients and explore the history.
• 21:03
  Tracy: Because you're witnessed.
• 21:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Tracy: And so often the traumas are not spoken.
• 21:09
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Tracy: And if it's something that's been hidden a long time in your lineage, there's sometimes things that have been concealed.
• 21:19
  Margarete: And other probably very important component for people to listen and to the change to other therapeutic probably, um, modalities, what I find very unique is that it's a support within that modality of really stepping out of my story, my identity with my story.
• 21:40
  Margarete: That I am more than my story, that I am more than that.
• 21:45
  Margarete: What I experienced now that my parents are more than their story.
• 21:50
  Margarete: And my grandparents and that picture makes a huge pyramid to into the much bigger field.
• 21:58
  Margarete: And from that, we can also look, you know, what the emerging future is.
• 22:01
  Margarete: When I sit there and I just plan everything, and I think this is how it is and how it will be.
• 22:08
  Margarete: It's a really box I sit in, you know, rather than in actual fact to open my heart to that what is probably unthinkable.
• 22:18
  Margarete: You know, I sit in my, in my, I can relate to that my own process.
• 22:23
  Margarete: It was very comfortable to sit in my victim.
• 22:27
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Margarete: Well, because it was familiar, you know, like to, but to have actually that experience, then I'm more than a victim.
• 22:36
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 22:36
  Margarete: The duality of victim perpetrator and that dynamic, you know, like really open something totally different for me, you know, I feel I'm far more empowered and I'm far more resilient and strengthened in that being in that
• 22:51
  Tracy: moreness.
• 22:53
  Tracy: Are you saying because you recognize that there's both that and your family system and and you recognize you're swinging between the two or?
• 23:02
  Margarete: How do
• 23:02
  Tracy: you mean?
• 23:03
  Margarete: I want to understand.
• 23:04
  Tracy: You said that you were comfortable in the victim.
• 23:08
  Tracy: I'm
• 23:09
  Margarete: more
• 23:09
  Tracy: comfortable
• 23:10
  Margarete: in my wholeness.
• 23:12
  Tracy: Mm.
• 23:13
  Tracy: You know, like that, that you had been comfortable in your victim and now you're comfortable in your wholeness, but you had to experience that energy of perpetrated to understand that to be whole.
• 23:22
  Tracy: Is that what Correct.
• 23:23
  Tracy: To include?
• 23:24
  Tracy: Yes.
• 23:25
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 23:25
  Margarete: Not to exclude and say, oh, you know, I am the victim.
• 23:28
  Margarete: I don't have to look there.
• 23:31
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Margarete: To really work with my resistance in bringing that in and finding a place that even that belongs to me.
• 23:38
  Tracy: So your, your family was from Germany, but your mum and dad were in Columbia when you were born.
• 23:45
  Tracy: Is that correct?
• 23:47
  Tracy: That's correct.
• 23:48
  Margarete: My family more or less left Germany because of the Second World War.
• 23:53
  Tracy: Okay, yeah.
• 23:55
  Tracy: I think the beauty of this work, the amount of healing that has come out, and for the German people as well, right?
• 24:02
  Tracy: Because it started there, well, Constellations was birthed It wasn't in this, in the way that it came through.
• 24:10
  Margarete: It came out of that need that we as in our, in our collective field had to deal with that, um, denial and with the shame, enormous shame, yeah, of, um, being children of, uh, perpetrators.
• 24:31
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Margarete: And how can that be reconciled?
• 24:34
  Margarete: You know, for me, it was one of the most powerful experiences, personally, to be held from a whole group to sit with a Jewish person in the middle of that circle and really to look from my heart to their heart.
• 24:53
  Margarete: And to see we're going to sit in our humanity, you know, within that.
• 24:59
  Margarete: And I really feel that is extremely important at this time of what is happening all over the world.
• 25:09
  Margarete: If I can make a tiny little contribution To that movement out of that split, that would be, you know, I think I can close my eyes one day and have a smile on my face.
• 25:26
  Tracy: And we know that it just takes a tiny little movement too, doesn't it?
• 25:30
  Tracy: To make a big ripple in the cosmos of consciousness, if that's what you want to call it, the field of consciousness.
• 25:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 25:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 25:41
  Tracy: Opening your heart.
• 25:42
  Tracy: I think I've shared on one of my earlier.
• 25:45
  Tracy: He says that I did a piece of work with my daughter and I, it's the only piece I've ever done with her, but it was around, um, and it just invited her to open her heart.
• 25:57
  Tracy: She was really struggling with her relationship with her dad.
• 26:00
  Tracy: And I guess, and part of that was me giving me, because I'd been learning the work, giving her my blessing, you know, because obviously there were times when I probably didn't give her my blessing in the early days of our relationship ending.
• 26:14
  Tracy: So.
• 26:16
  Tracy: Going through that and then inviting her and she said she could only open a tiny little bit.
• 26:22
  Tracy: That was quite a few years ago now, and now they have a very, they have a lot to do with each other.
• 26:27
  Tracy: They're very connected and really, so from that has opened up another whole new pathway.
• 26:35
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 26:36
  Margarete: Beautiful.
• 26:36
  Margarete: I, you know, I remember that workshop Albrecht in Gympie in Australia of all places, very funny, and it was a long workshop, it was eight days or something, and intensive, and it was also very intense group, beautiful group, you know, small group of 35 people, I think we were.
• 26:59
  Margarete: And he didn't even do a constellation with me, but it was a total constellation.
• 27:04
  Margarete: Sometimes I ask, you know, what is, if people ask me, is it, you know, it's not constellation, it's not just the concept of, you know, systemic work is not bound to having to put up mama, papa, uncle, tante, you know, like, yeah.
• 27:21
  Margarete: So it is really a much broader concept.
• 27:23
  Margarete: And he just sit with me in my heart resonance for an hour.
• 27:30
  Margarete: Wow.
• 27:32
  Margarete: And how that whole shift, the, wow, I, you know, like I can still recall that cellular experience to sitting in that residence, you know, with that cohort and with that group.
• 27:46
  Margarete: Yeah, I was nearly bursting, you know, so full of love and
• 27:51
  Tracy: I remember that.
• 27:52
  Tracy: Feeling, I'm just, I'm kind of feeling like I'm all over the place at the minute because I want to try and share this.
• 27:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Tracy: And you see this, you know, the whole thing was a constellation.
• 28:04
  Tracy: I know for myself, um, with my experiences in the Australian Australasian intensive that from the time I decide to go there's little bits coming up and building up to it and the closer you get to it, the more Things start to show up and then, for me, the experience of leaving New Zealand and going over there and the different threads and the people that I meet and had some pretty wild experiences as I've peeled back.
• 28:29
  Tracy: It's almost like a, um, speed date.
• 28:32
  Tracy: You want to like, because you're peeling back so much and come out the other end quite different.
• 28:39
  Tracy: I can tell
• 28:39
  Margarete: you, you know, like it is, you come out different and there is, you know, and you are really opening your being up to that profoundness of actually what comes towards you.
• 28:50
  Margarete: Something really shifts, you know, for me shifts, you know, in my relationship to myself, but also to really to everything I mean.
• 28:59
  Margarete: When I left the last intensive, I went and went with public transport and I felt so full and I felt so satisfied and so full in myself, you know, like, and full of love, really.
• 29:15
  Margarete: And I sat there on the ferry and was waiting for the ferry.
• 29:21
  Margarete: I'm standing there and a young man first of all came and said, Oh, you know, lady, you can sit here and you can take my place on a bench.
• 29:28
  Margarete: So I just was a very nice little interaction.
• 29:33
  Margarete: And, um, I took that offer and so I sit down and I sit down beside An Indian couple who was traveling and they had a huge bunch of flowers with them.
• 29:42
  Margarete: We started a conversation and they told me they had just landed from Florida.
• 29:47
  Margarete: And they were off to meet a friend they hadn't seen in 47 years.
• 29:52
  Margarete: And they started really telling me this most, you know, intimate.
• 29:55
  Margarete: And then the woman tapped her husband on the shoulder and said, you have to give her a rose.
• 30:01
  Margarete: You have to give her a rose.
• 30:03
  Margarete: So, you know, so he went into that big bunch of flowers, got out a rose, ripped out this biggest rose, and gave it to me.
• 30:12
  Margarete: So I was sitting there with my suitcase, you know, traveling home, and had a rose on the ferry, you know, like, traveling home.
• 30:22
  Margarete: And I was, I couldn't believe it, you know, like what, in a way, what really happened, that recognition of something he saw in, in, you know, in that field.
• 30:36
  Margarete: And then I was struggling, and I looked at my rose.
• 30:39
  Margarete: And I thought, dear Rose, you know, like, you will travel four hours.
• 30:44
  Margarete: I don't think you will survive really well on the plane and things.
• 30:48
  Margarete: So let me know when you know where you go next.
• 30:52
  Tracy: Oh,
• 30:53
  Margarete: yeah, no.
• 30:54
  Margarete: So we going and I had to get a ticket and I didn't know how to and, and there were two of us.
• 31:01
  Margarete: help us, you know, in their vests, and a young man and a middle aged woman, probably from Malaysia, and he was very boisterous, and she was very shy, and they sat there and there, and got my ticket, and went through.
• 31:16
  Margarete: You know, and then the man said, Oh, is that a rose?
• 31:19
  Margarete: That is such a rose.
• 31:21
  Margarete: I would wish that I would have a rose like this.
• 31:25
  Margarete: And she was very shy beside him, looking at me, very shy.
• 31:29
  Margarete: And I turned to her and said, Yes, and this incredible, beautiful rose, I think really belongs to you now.
• 31:37
  Margarete: You know, and she looked at me, started crying.
• 31:41
  Margarete: looked twice, three times and said, can you give me a big hug and hold me for a moment in the middle of a trip, you know, of the trend, you know, I thought that came out of constellation in nowhere.
• 31:57
  Margarete: It was working with no consciousness and into the collective field.
• 32:04
  Margarete: Wow.
• 32:05
  Margarete: Such a beautiful experience.
• 32:11
  Tracy: And you exert that, you exude, exert, and you exude that.
• 32:16
  Tracy: I feel that in your, in your heart resonance whenever I'm, just thinking of you, but also around you as well.
• 32:24
  Tracy: There's such a beautiful heart energy that you carry.
• 32:31
  Margarete: Yeah, and I must say, you know, I really had that is I'm so thankful and I have a lot of gratitude to to consolation, you know, to really the heart resonance that I experienced also with my parents.
• 32:48
  Margarete: Yeah, and my roots and my belonging is uncannily deep.
• 32:55
  Tracy: And there's more room when we remember that we're the little ones.
• 32:59
  Margarete: What, what, I didn't hear that.
• 33:00
  Tracy: I said there's more room in our hearts when we remember we are the little ones.
• 33:05
  Margarete: Yes.
• 33:06
  Tracy: When you first, Constellations, was your, were your parents alive?
• 33:11
  Tracy: Did you notice, what did you notice for yourself in the My
• 33:14
  Margarete: father, just hang on.
• 33:16
  Margarete: My father wasn't alive anymore, but, you know, I can tell you that, okay, it didn't come out of constellation, but came out of, and I think it was a constellation.
• 33:26
  Margarete: If I look at that, maybe that was already in the field of my old teachers, because, you know, Hunchaburma was one teacher of mine, Forty five years ago in, um, in the Gestalt community.
• 33:43
  Margarete: Before my, what certainly brought me this work was that I had once a real urge and calling, um, to spend a week with my father.
• 33:56
  Margarete: I realized, you know, I do not know this man that, that well.
• 34:00
  Margarete: I need to know him before he dies.
• 34:03
  Margarete: And I need to meet him, and I need to stretch my being with that.
• 34:07
  Margarete: And I went and I asked my mother, very respectfully, if she could please visit my sister and leave me alone with him for a week.
• 34:20
  Margarete: And that was a very profound shift.
• 34:22
  Margarete: Wasn't all easy, but you know, like it was, and we cried together, we made music together, we just sat and were quiet together, you know, just to be and to ask him things I have never dared to ask.
• 34:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:42
  Margarete: And I think the constellation, my mother was still alive until, when did she die?
• 34:50
  Margarete: 2000.
• 34:50
  Margarete: 2000.
• 34:52
  Margarete: an eight and I was doing, you know, she died and it was 90.
• 34:59
  Margarete: And, um, she herself did a lot of, you know, with Judith Hemming.
• 35:06
  Margarete: Oh, wow.
• 35:07
  Margarete: You know, not with Judith actually, with, with, um, Judith's teacher.
• 35:13
  Margarete: So, generation before that even, Marianne Frey, she worked with her, so in a way she was an unusual woman ahead of her time, far ahead of her time.
• 35:28
  Margarete: But yeah, so constellation work certainly brought to me to not get caught into the story, you know, to really step into who am I in relation to my parents, you know, and they are the ones I have.
• 35:44
  Margarete: There is no other.
• 35:46
  Margarete: Yeah,
• 35:48
  Tracy: it's very easy to get caught in your story, isn't it?
• 35:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:51
  Tracy: What we didn't have or what we had too much of.
• 35:53
  Tracy: Correct.
• 35:54
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:56
  Margarete: What wasn't there and what wasn't here and what wasn't, yeah.
• 36:01
  Margarete: And to really get led into that place of, um, yeah, it was exactly the right mother.
• 36:08
  Margarete: And I'm not her mother.
• 36:10
  Margarete: That was for me a profound peace.
• 36:15
  Margarete: You know, I also don't have to be the bigger one, you know, I'm the little one.
• 36:20
  Margarete: I can't get arrogant and think that I know better than her.
• 36:25
  Tracy: If you could describe the work to someone who had never heard of it, what would you call, how would you describe it?
• 36:32
  Margarete: Constellation work?
• 36:34
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 36:35
  Margarete: I would describe it as a journey, Back home to our roots, to reclaim what belongs to us and to leave behind was doesn't suit, and to reconnect really with our pure essence and our full potential.
• 36:58
  Margarete: I love that.
• 37:00
  Tracy: That's beautiful.
• 37:01
  Tracy: So, so true and so beautifully put.
• 37:05
  Margarete: Mm,
• 37:05
  Tracy: thank you.
• 37:06
  Margarete: You are welcome.
• 37:08
  Tracy: What would, um, there's another question that's just floating around.
• 37:12
  Tracy: Hold on.
• 37:13
  Margarete: Yeah,
• 37:14
  Tracy: a little bit like the healing sentences, isn't it kind of waiting for them to drop in?
• 37:19
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 37:20
  Tracy: Who do you, who would you say is, do you have a favorite teacher or, uh, or
• 37:25
  Margarete: teachers?
• 37:27
  Margarete: Oh, you know who I have a deep respect for is definitely Gunibaksa.
• 37:32
  Margarete: You know, and yeah, I really, Albrecht, Snee, Francesca, Boring, You know, there is, yeah, Hunter, I find, you know, he was very inspiring in, in, uh, I find in the, for me, in that exploration of the spiritual component of Constellation work.
• 37:55
  Margarete: I really enjoyed the spiritual talks Hunter gave in, in Bernried in the mornings.
• 38:03
  Margarete: Victor Chu was one of my first experiences.
• 38:07
  Margarete: He is a Constellator and as well as a Gestalt Therapist and he has written two books.
• 38:13
  Margarete: What's his last name?
• 38:14
  Margarete: Victor Chu.
• 38:16
  Margarete: C H O.
• 38:18
  Margarete: Yeah.
• 38:19
  Margarete: I think so.
• 38:19
  Margarete: Who's CHU?
• 38:20
  Margarete: Yeah, he's from Germany, CHU, you
• 38:24
  Tracy: know, but
• 38:28
  Margarete: there is numerous, uh, Ursula Franke, I really like Marjana, Marjana, what's for Marjana's name, second name, I don't, don't know, recall, but, you know, who I really also really very stimulated by is certainly is, um, Jan Jakobs.
• 38:49
  Margarete: Yes.
• 38:50
  Tracy: Yes.
• 38:51
  Tracy: When you were saying, starting to talk, I could feel Jan Jakob, he's, yeah.
• 38:55
  Tracy: I love him.
• 38:56
  Tracy: He's more organizational.
• 38:59
  Tracy: Like that's where he, he has situated.
• 39:02
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Tracy: But he's, he's so broad and that, and he brings so much, right?
• 39:10
  Margarete: He brings a lot of stimulation for your brain to really see systems in a different, totally different way.
• 39:16
  Margarete: You know, like, so, yeah.
• 39:18
  Tracy: Well, fantastic.
• 39:19
  Tracy: Thank you so much for your time.
• 39:21
  Tracy: I'm probably got a whole lot more questions and I'll think about them afterwards.
• 39:26
  Tracy: It's best.
• 39:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:27
  Tracy: You're right.
• 39:28
  Margarete: You know, like I find, you know, it's time with this connection of New Zealand and Australia to actually, I'm really excited about that.
• 39:37
  Margarete: You know, that exchange and to really see and to explore.
• 39:41
  Margarete: I've done one workshop in, in New Zealand long, long time ago in Christchurch, where Rudolf Jaroszewski, he organized it, uh, at that time, which is in Miriam, his wife, which is a long time ago.
• 39:59
  Margarete: And I'm so curious to see, also to see the similarities, but also to embrace in the differences.
• 40:06
  Margarete: Thank you
• 40:07
  Tracy: Yes.
• 40:07
  Tracy: So you'll be here in April next year for our Ataroa New Zealand Constellation Immersion, which is amazing.
• 40:17
  Tracy: It's going to be amazing in order to do it.
• 40:18
  Tracy: So, yeah, I look forward to, to having you in our space and yeah, being part of this beautiful offering and, and also for you to receive, yeah, the, I think do a very unique, we have a unique way of offering our work here and.
• 40:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:42
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 40:43
  Tracy: It's going to be amazing.
• 40:44
  Tracy: I can feel it.
• 40:45
  Tracy: It's so good.
• 40:47
  Margarete: So I really thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to travel your country, to see your country, and to walk on that soil.
• 40:56
  Tracy: Welcome.
• 40:58
  Tracy: Always welcome.
• 40:59
  Tracy: And with that, thank you so much, Michael H.
• 41:02
  Tracy: It's been a pleasure to have you on here and, yeah, look forward to seeing what else is possible with what else the field wants us to do, hey?
• 41:13
  Tracy: Yes, thank you.
• 41:15
  Tracy: Thank you for listening and remember nz and sign up for the free intention meditation for 2025.
• 41:24
  Tracy: Remember to have fun and be kind to yourself.
• 41:28
  Tracy: Ka kite.
• 41:29
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 41:34
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracy.
• 41:36
  Tracy: cartwright.
• 41:37
  Tracy: That's tracy with no e dot cartwright.
• 41:40
  Tracy: And or head over to my website tracycartwright.
• 41:44
  Tracy: co.
• 41:44
  Tracy: nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 41:50
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.