Latest / Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers / 132: Empaths vs Covert Narcissists: Recognizing Energy Vampires

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132: Empaths vs Covert Narcissists: Recognizing Energy Vampires · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:20
  Well, hello and welcome back.
• 0:21
  My name is Marianne Walker and I'm the life coach for empath and highly sensitive people.
• 0:26
  And I kind of mentioned in passing in an earlier episode.
• 0:29
  That I think that a lot of narcissists are actually highly sensitive people, especially the covert narcissists, and it really raised quite a few eyebrows.
• 0:38
  So today I wanted to expand on that idea a little bit.
• 0:41
  So first let's really talk about what is a highly sensitive person or an HSP.
• 0:47
  Highly sensitive people.
• 0:48
  They're highly attuned to people's micro-expressions to their tone of voice.
• 0:52
  To their choice of words.
• 0:54
  They're highly sensitive to temperatures, to sights, to sounds, to smells.
• 0:58
  All of these things really impact them in a significant way.
• 1:02
  And they use all of this to gain information, to help them to constantly tune in to how it is the other people are expressing themselves.
• 1:10
  And they're doing this essentially as a way to keep themselves safe.
• 1:13
  They want to gather all of the information that they can to make sure that they're safe, that they're showing up well, and that things can just be maintained in a way that feels comfortable for them.
• 1:22
  And as I've talked about before the upside to being a highly sensitive person, is that highly sensitive people are generally super accurate when it comes to determining how someone else is feeling about any given situation.
• 1:34
  But the downside is that they oftentimes take things really personally, or make it mean something about them.
• 1:40
  And they do this because it actually gives them a false sense of control.
• 1:44
  Because if they are the source of the problem, then that means something is in their control and they can fix it.
• 1:49
  We know deep down, we cannot control other people.
• 1:52
  And so it does actually benefit us in some way, if we assume that we're the problem, because if we're correct, then we can fix it.
• 1:58
  And we have some sense of control over the situation.
• 2:02
  Now, let me make a distinction about the differences between the empathetic, highly sensitive people and the covertly narcissistic, highly sensitive people.
• 2:11
  Both of them use their senses to determine how it is that the other person is experiencing the world.
• 2:18
  Both are very good at deciphering tone of voice and body language, and both are highly sensitive to the world around them, just in general.
• 2:26
  And what's really interesting is the, oftentimes the really compassionate, highly sensitive person, they oftentimes find themselves in relationship with the more emotionally immature or even covertly narcissistic, highly sensitive person.
• 2:39
  And when this happens, first of all, it can be a lot of conflict, but for the more compassionate, highly sensitive person, they're oftentimes left feeling unfulfilled or confused, burned out, or just like things are out of balance.
• 2:52
  So if this is you, first of all, just love yourself.
• 2:55
  I really hate to say this, but every highly sensitive person or empathic person that I know has found themselves in at least one of these toxic relationships at some point or another.
• 3:07
  And just because you found yourself in this kind of relationship, it does not mean that anything is wrong with you.
• 3:12
  Narcissists seek out these givers and these highly sensitive people because they gain so much benefit from being in relationship with them.
• 3:22
  So I want you to remember that how it is that you show up in relationship is about you and how they show up in relationship is about them.
• 3:30
  Sometimes due to the conditioning of the narcissist, we tend to think that it is all our fault.
• 3:34
  Because, whereas the highly sensitive person tends to make themselves responsible for how it is the other person is skilling.
• 3:40
  Guess what?
• 3:41
  Narcissists also want you to be responsible for how it is that they are feeling.
• 3:46
  Again, it really benefits them.
• 3:48
  And so in this relationship, we're kind of fed that internal dialogue even more.
• 3:52
  and it's fueling that belief system.
• 3:55
  And then that kind of contributes to feeling really insecure in relationship and just with life in general and how it is that we're showing up.
• 4:02
  So when I tell you that, yeah, everybody that I've met, that's a highly sensitive person or an empath has experienced this, then that means that yes, I have also gone through this experience and I have learned.
• 4:13
  And I have grown and I'm still learning and growing.
• 4:18
  During a time when I was really struggling with my own energy vampires, and in this case, it was in the form of a covert narcissist, then I picked up a book by Lisa Campion and it's titled energy healing for impacts how to protect yourself from energy vampires, honor your boundaries and build healthier relationships.
• 4:35
  And yes, I will link that book in the show notes and Lisa Campion or anybody that works for her.
• 4:40
  If you hear this episode and you want to come on the show, I would love to have a conversation with you about all of this.
• 4:47
  I absolutely loved the book.
• 4:48
  So in her book, she shares a story that really kind of helps to illustrate what it is that we're talking about here and helping to differentiate between highly sensitive people and the more narcissistic or emotionally immature, highly sensitive person.
• 5:02
  Now in this book, then she was having a gathering for empaths.
• 5:06
  And during this workshop, then somebody came in and when they walked into the room, they essentially just declared.
• 5:11
  That I am the most sensitive of all empaths and because I am so sensitive.
• 5:17
  I must have this much distance between me and the next person.
• 5:21
  And I must have these special accommodations because I just can't handle it.
• 5:26
  I'm so sensitive.
• 5:28
  That I just can't have anybody within my energetic bubble, or that would be really a complication for me.
• 5:34
  And it was really interesting that many of the people in that room, they really did empathize with her plight.
• 5:39
  They know how hard it can be when you're taking on other people's energy.
• 5:42
  And because of that, they were highly accommodating.
• 5:44
  They were giving her space.
• 5:45
  They were making sure that she was comfortable.
• 5:48
  And it was interesting to hear Lisa in her book comment on that.
• 5:52
  And she said, you know, I'm not saying if that person was an empath or not, but I am saying that the people that had the most empathy were the ones that were being propelled into action.
• 6:03
  Because of this woman coming in, that they were the ones that were truly empathetic.
• 6:08
  So, if you are an empath or a highly sensitive person, you might have been in relationship with somebody like this that is asking you to be highly accommodating of them.
• 6:17
  They might even be telling you I'm an empath or I'm a highly sensitive person and therefore, this is just what I need in order to have that baseline survival.
• 6:26
  And so it's highly likely that you have been in relationship with an energy vampire.
• 6:31
  That looks like a highly sensitive person because they are in fact, a highly sensitive person.
• 6:38
  And also you might notice over time.
• 6:40
  That they may seem to lack empathy and understanding.
• 6:44
  You might notice that they tend to make everything about them and how people can accommodate them.
• 6:48
  And that they're less accommodating of others.
• 6:52
  And you may have learned this through experiencing your own burnout or anger or resentment.
• 6:59
  So let's talk about vampires for a moment.
• 7:02
  Shall we?
• 7:03
  Now vampires are known for being beautiful and seductive.
• 7:07
  It is really easy to get caught up in that vampire energy.
• 7:11
  It's very appealing.
• 7:12
  We are drawn to them and they seem to have this mysterious appeal that is really hard to compete with.
• 7:18
  And so we just want to be in their presence.
• 7:20
  Right?
• 7:21
  That's what all of the books and movies are about is just this irresistible appeal to vampires.
• 7:26
  And that is what it can feel like when you were in the presence of an energy vampire, we tend to want to accommodate them.
• 7:32
  We want to please them.
• 7:34
  And it's really because we have this deep seated belief that if I can just help them.
• 7:38
  Then I can see their greatness and they will start to show up for me as well.
• 7:44
  But that's not always the case.
• 7:46
  When a highly sensitive energy vampire is telling you that I am just so empathetic, I'm probably even an empath or highly sensitive, and I just need so much help.
• 7:56
  Then the compassionate, highly sensitive people.
• 7:59
  We really tend to eat this up.
• 8:01
  We get sucked into the relationship thinking if I can just keep them safe and keep them well, then they will finally have the capacity to reciprocate.
• 8:09
  We totally eat up their story.
• 8:11
  And so soon then this becomes a really toxic dynamic where one person essentially is the giver and the other person, the energy vampire is the taker.
• 8:21
  It's kind of a parasitic relationship.
• 8:24
  And so the giver, They're giving from a genuine place.
• 8:27
  And givers, they really do have a high tolerance for how much they can give.
• 8:32
  And they really don't need much in return.
• 8:35
  But they do need something in return.
• 8:37
  So when someone who is a giver is in relationship with an energy vampire, they're going to be experiencing that burnout, that compassion fatigue, because it is simply not sustainable.
• 8:46
  We were not made to live off of breadcrumbs.
• 8:49
  We need relationships that are going to give us a whole loaf every now and then.
• 8:52
  Right.
• 8:52
  We cannot live.
• 8:54
  Off of breadcrumbs.
• 8:56
  So, yes, it might actually be easy in the beginning of the relationship because they might be putting on their very beautiful face right there, where they're putting out that seductive energy.
• 9:05
  They're drawing us in and really putting out that victim energy that is total bait for a compassionate, highly sensitive person.
• 9:12
  But as time goes on, then you might notice that the mutual consideration, it becomes less and less and less.
• 9:19
  And now you're in a giver taker relationship.
• 9:21
  And sometimes we've been tell ourselves the stories that, okay, well, I just know they're really stressed.
• 9:25
  Stressed right now.
• 9:25
  So after they finished this project at work, then I know I'll get that compassionate person back, or, oh, I know.
• 9:32
  They're really stressed about this that's happening in their family.
• 9:34
  So after that's resolved, then I'll get that compassionate person back or, oh, well, after they finished this big event, then I'll get my compassionate person back.
• 9:44
  And we make up stories for them because we know what they're capable of.
• 9:48
  Right.
• 9:49
  Initially they are so amazing and so great.
• 9:51
  And so we get sucked into that, but very quickly, Then things shift and change.
• 9:56
  And so just notice if you were the one writing the stories or if they are telling you, Hey, I'm really stressed right now, but I am coming back.
• 10:03
  Or if the only story they're telling you is, yeah, I'm really stressed right now.
• 10:07
  I need more, I need more, I need more.
• 10:10
  And if there's no reassurance that they have any intention of coming back.
• 10:13
  Notice if you are just telling stories and making excuses for them, or if they're actually consciously aware of the imbalance in relationship.
• 10:24
  Now many of these vampiric, highly sensitive people, they are very good at playing the victim card.
• 10:29
  And so they're going to be saying things like, oh, it's just so hard.
• 10:32
  I'm just so tired.
• 10:33
  I just can't do it anymore.
• 10:35
  And this is exactly what you would say to somebody who has significant levels of empathy, if you want them to fill your need.
• 10:42
  So you'll notice what those examples, they didn't actually make a request.
• 10:46
  They just said, it's hard, I'm tired.
• 10:48
  I can't do this anymore.
• 10:49
  They didn't even actually make a request.
• 10:51
  But the highly empathetic, highly sensitive person is going to hear that they need me.
• 10:56
  They're going to see this big bat signal in the sky, right?
• 10:59
  This says, oh, I can swoop in.
• 11:00
  I can save the day.
• 11:01
  So this is total bait for the highly sensitive empathetic person.
• 11:06
  They're going to want to jump in and help, which is awesome.
• 11:09
  And also, I want you to just notice if you've maybe slipped into the drama triangle.
• 11:14
  We talked about the drama triangle and episodes 109 through 111.
• 11:18
  And yes, I will link those in the show notes, but in summary, the drama triangle, it consists of three roles.
• 11:23
  The victim.
• 11:25
  The rescuer and the persecutor.
• 11:27
  And in these vampiric relationships, the vampire often takes on the role of the helpless victim.
• 11:34
  And that is intended to trigger the rescuer response in the other person.
• 11:39
  And once this baseline of the victim rescuer has been established.
• 11:42
  If the rescue were even dares to express a need, then the victim may in fact become their persecutor.
• 11:48
  And they might make comments like, oh, I see how it is.
• 11:50
  You're only doing something nice for me to get something in return.
• 11:53
  That's not love.
• 11:55
  That is manipulation.
• 11:57
  And as I really highly sensitive person that has a lot of empathy, those words can really sting.
• 12:01
  But what I want to reflect back to you is that this is actually the vampire revealing themselves.
• 12:07
  It is the vampire letting you know that they are someone who only does something to get something in return, that they are the ones who are manipulating the relationship.
• 12:17
  Because we're so empathetic and that's like the most hurtful thing somebody could say, we tend to really take it personally and believe it, but I want you to step back a little bit and look at how you are showing up in relationship.
• 12:28
  And compare it with how they are showing up in relationship.
• 12:30
  Compare the words and the actions for both of you.
• 12:33
  And see who's the most consistent.
• 12:36
  Because more than likely your words and your actions have.
• 12:39
  Yes, I'm going to show up and I'm going to be there and you actually show up and be, there are going to be very different than the energy vampire, where they might be saying, well, I would be showing up for you, but, and they're making the excuses.
• 12:49
  So they have the word saying that they're going to be there, but their actions are not matching up.
• 12:54
  And that's how you'll know that.
• 12:55
  Okay.
• 12:55
  Well maybe there's some emotional manipulation happening here.
• 12:59
  Remember vampires cannot see themselves in a mirror.
• 13:02
  So when you reflect back to them, how it is that they're showing up, and maybe you're even asking for reciprocation, know that they cannot stand to see themselves and they will do whatever it is that they can do to hide.
• 13:13
  So do not get sucked into their manipulation and know that they do not want to be seen.
• 13:17
  They do not want you to see the manipulation.
• 13:19
  It's very much like the wizard of Oz, right?
• 13:21
  Where the great and powerful Oz Dorothy finally sees behind the curtain and sees.
• 13:25
  Wait, you're not so great and powerful.
• 13:27
  You're just some guy behind a curtain that has a big old video on the screen and, has a microphone where you can yell at people, but you're just some guy.
• 13:35
  And he's like, oh, no pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
• 13:38
  Right.
• 13:39
  So, again, it's that emotional manipulation.
• 13:40
  They don't want to be seen as that they want to be seen as great and powerful.
• 13:44
  But really, once you see behind the curtain, you're going to see things pretty clearly.
• 13:47
  They're going to want to hide.
• 13:49
  Just know that that's what they're going to want to do.
• 13:50
  And you just keep doing what it is that you need in order to sustain self.
• 13:55
  Now I will also add that, I have heard some highly sensitive narcissists tell me that they are in fact empaths, right?
• 14:03
  They say, no, everything impacts me so deeply.
• 14:06
  Therefore, I am an empath and that is my victim card.
• 14:10
  And life is just so hard, but it's really interesting to notice how the energy vampire is responding to these"empathic" experiences.
• 14:19
  So for example, an empathetic, highly sensitive person, when they hear that somebody is struggling financially, or that they're going through a divorce or they've lost their job more than likely when they hear that they're going to be moved to action.
• 14:32
  They want to help.
• 14:34
  Okay.
• 14:34
  So, this is much like that group of empaths at that conference that were really accommodating that really loud and vocal woman who was saying, oh, woe was me?
• 14:41
  It's just so hard being an empath.
• 14:42
  And they all work to accommodate her.
• 14:44
  That's what we tend to do.
• 14:46
  Right?
• 14:46
  That's what the compassionate, highly sensitive people tend to do.
• 14:49
  When we hear that somebody is having a hard time.
• 14:51
  We are moved to action because we cannot stand to see anybody struggling.
• 14:55
  And so we're going to want to do all that we can do to help, whereas an unsympathetic or un-empathetic highly sensitive person or an energy vampire or a covert narcissist instead then yeah, they might actually be highly sensitive to the financial struggle to their neighbors, divorced to this neighbor's awesome job.
• 15:12
  But instead of being propelled to action, instead, they're going to find a way to make it about them.
• 15:17
  So it might sound like I had such a hard day because I'm just so sensitive and I'm just so empathic that everybody, all of these things happening around me just impact me so deeply.
• 15:29
  And it is so hard for me that everybody else is having these struggles.
• 15:33
  And when they say this notice that they are not being moved to action.
• 15:37
  And also when they say this, it is intended to propel other people into action so that they will show up for them.
• 15:44
  So yes, it can look very similar.
• 15:46
  And so sometimes it can be hard to spot because we know what it feels like to be overwhelmed by somebody else's situation.
• 15:52
  Right.
• 15:53
  And also just notice that there is a little bit of a difference between, okay, is this a situation where somebody really has been giving and serving and they really are empathetic towards others and they've now hit their breaking point and this is a temporary time when they're experiencing burnout?
• 16:07
  Or is this a pattern of behavior and this is just who they are is they're just going to be essentially complaining about how everybody else is impacting them?
• 16:15
  But they're not helping others.
• 16:17
  They're not taking steps to learn how to self-regulate their own emotions and help themselves.
• 16:21
  And it's just a pattern of behavior, which is contributing to the giver taker, dynamic of relationships.
• 16:28
  Now another thing I want to remind you about with vampires, yes,.
• 16:31
  We're using this as a whole metaphor for the whole thing is that vampires can only,come in.
• 16:35
  If you invite them in.
• 16:37
  So, yes, when you are a highly sensitive or an empathetic person, we invite a lot of people in to our lives.
• 16:44
  It's in our nature.
• 16:45
  We want to help.
• 16:46
  We want to love, we want to serve.
• 16:48
  We feel really good when we do those things.
• 16:51
  And not everybody that we're inviting in so that we can love and support and serve them.
• 16:56
  not all of them have the best of intentions.
• 17:00
  And this is where it can be good to be really mindful about boundaries and boundary setting and self-expression also.
• 17:06
  So when you recognize that you're feeling resentment or anger coming in, use those emotions as information, these are very valuable emotions and they can teach us so much.
• 17:18
  If you are experiencing anger or resentment, more than likely you're experiencing it for one of two reasons.
• 17:24
  Either you haven't spoken your truth or made a request, or you haven't stated a boundary and a boundary needs to be put in place.
• 17:31
  So speaking your truth, it might sound like you actually expressing something that you need in relationship.
• 17:36
  So maybe you're actually telling them,"Hey, I would appreciate it if we could also talk about what's going on with me from time to time." Maybe you're actually stating it and making a request, or maybe you're just practicing, inserting self, seeing that.
• 17:48
  Well, they really have an easy time talking about themselves.
• 17:51
  And they just start talking without even being asked.
• 17:54
  I'm going to practice that too.
• 17:56
  I am going to practice just jumping into the conversation and sharing something about me to see how they respond, to see if they're able to show up for me.
• 18:05
  It might also look like letting them know when it is that you have a need or when you have a preference, rather than just going along with whatever it is that they want.
• 18:13
  And yeah, it can take some practice to assert self and to actually express your wants and your needs and your preferences.
• 18:20
  But practice.
• 18:21
  And remember that that is actually something that the narcissist can model back to us is the, yeah.
• 18:27
  People can talk about themselves.
• 18:28
  They can assert their preferences and you can do it too.
• 18:31
  They have essentially given you permission in that relationship to do exactly that.
• 18:36
  So practice and see what happens there.
• 18:39
  It can be very helpful to express yourself and to make requests in these relationships to see how other people show up.
• 18:44
  And also, I want you to know that sometimes then these people, they really are a true energy vampire and they have no desire to reciprocate ever.
• 18:53
  And other times the other person, they might be an energy vampire, but it's because they honestly don't know how to show up for others.
• 19:00
  I worked with one client.
• 19:01
  It was really interesting to see her self-awareness she recognized that something she needed to do in relationship was actually tell her friends.
• 19:08
  Will you please tell me how I can help?
• 19:11
  Because it was never modeled to her growing up, how to jump in to help others.
• 19:16
  And so sometimes we are in relationship with somebody that is more emotionally immature and they do not know how to help.
• 19:22
  You as a highly sensitive person who is very empathetic.
• 19:24
  You know how to jump in.
• 19:26
  You really do feel what it is that people need.
• 19:28
  You're very good at assessing needs and jumping into fulfill those needs.
• 19:32
  But some people, they were honestly never taught and so they've kind of become an energy vampire by default.
• 19:37
  Because they don't know how to reciprocate.
• 19:39
  It is not something that was modeled for them.
• 19:41
  They just don't know what it is that other people need.
• 19:44
  And maybe this is also because they're more of a cognitive empathizer, so they honestly have no clue what it is that you need.
• 19:50
  Unless you express it.
• 19:51
  So just try it out, try stating your preferences, making requests, and just see what happens.
• 19:57
  Be willing to just assert self.
• 20:00
  So if after making a request, things still don't change, then it may be time to set a boundary.
• 20:06
  Now you can set boundaries both verbally and non-verbally, I have an entire episode on that in episode 121.
• 20:12
  But remember that boundaries are an if then statement, if you are choosing to state them verbally, it's an if then statement, if you treat me this way, then this is what I am going to do.
• 20:21
  I also want to remind you that you can use technology to help you to set your boundaries.
• 20:26
  So turn your ringer off.
• 20:27
  Maybe you're muting their feed.
• 20:29
  Maybe you're turning on your do not disturb.
• 20:32
  When you need a break, maybe you're allowing your messages to go to voicemail so that you can call them back when it works for you, rather than continuing to burn yourself out in an effort to accommodate them.
• 20:43
  So remember that, yes, they may also be a highly sensitive person.
• 20:47
  They may be a highly sensitive person who is highly sensitive to how other people respond, how they show up.
• 20:52
  They might be highly sensitive to the world around them.
• 20:54
  They may be highly sensitive.
• 20:56
  But being highly sensitive doesn't necessarily mean that they have the ability to empathize with you, or know what is needed in order to reciprocate in relationship.
• 21:06
  And they may not even know how to hold space for you.
• 21:08
  And coming to better recognize that can really help to bring more peace and clarity in relationship.
• 21:14
  Now, I know this was just a very brief overview.
• 21:16
  So if you have recognized that you are an empathetic, highly sensitive person, and you're maybe in relationship with somebody that is a bit more of a taker, they're coming through that lens of emotional immaturity or even a covertly narcissistic lens.
• 21:29
  And you would like some help and support around that.
• 21:31
  Come and work with me.
• 21:33
  I would love to work with you.
• 21:34
  You can find all my contact information in the show notes and Hey, if you are watching this on YouTube and you found this helpful drop a comment and let me know what you found most helpful.
• 21:43
  And also let me know if there's something you would like a bit more information on.
• 21:46
  I would love to be able to continue to show up for you and to give you more clarity around your relationships.
• 21:52
  All right.
• 21:53
  I hope you have a great week and let's talk soon.
• 21:54
  Bye now.