Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NOLAN WELLS: ZERO HORN ISLAND DROWNINGS IN 6 YEARS, WHY NOW?

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NOLAN WELLS: ZERO HORN ISLAND DROWNINGS IN 6 YEARS, WHY NOW? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight in the Nolan Wells death investigation. Zero Horn
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Island drownings in six straight years. Why now? Am I
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: supposed to believe that Nolan Wells is the only one
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that accidentally drowned off Horn Island in going on seven years?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Is that statistically probable? Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: with us. He's not out in the water floating. He's
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: on shore.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I've never really seen bodies up on a shore.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: With the absence of waves, with the absence of a
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: strong current, how in the world did this 19-year-old man
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: end up on shore?
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: He fell asleep and the water is washing up.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: It may have just drowned him.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Can we just try to deal with reality? For all
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: we know, little green men from Mars could have beamed down, right?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: That could have happened. Nobody, there's no.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Did I hear him? Did he actually say maybe no
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: one was asleep?
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's just rule that out. Antoni, the theory that he, quote, swam.
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: Away has been bandied about as a potential reason that
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: he drowned, swam away from a party.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Let's see the video of all of those boats all
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: anchored together. There was a party going on, and I
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: am supposed to believe that, A, he fell asleep. He
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: fell asleep and died. or he swam away from this party.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: He's the only one that decided to swim away from
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the party. None of this is making sense. On top
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of that, we are learning that there have been no
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: drownings at Horn Island in going on seven years. Statistically,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this is highly improbable. Joining me in all-star panel to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: make sense of what we are learning tonight, Dave Mack
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: with Us Crime Stories investigative reporter going on seven years.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: No accidental drownings, no drownings off Horn Island. And I'm
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: supposed to believe that, boop, suddenly Nolan Wells accidentally drowns.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: By what? Falling asleep like Dubay said? Or he swam
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: away from the party?
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, Nancy, the people go there to gather
• 2:41
  Speaker 7: in an area to socialize. So A, swimming away makes
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: no sense. Every picture, every video we see, people are
• 2:49
  Speaker 7: gathered together. There's nobody swimming away. This is like a picnic.
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: Everybody's hanging out together and socializing. But the other part
• 2:58
  Speaker 7: that you said about no recorded drownings in the last
• 3:01
  Speaker 7: six years, Nancy, that is the official record from Jackson
• 3:04
  Speaker 7: County Coroner. Nobody has drowned on Horn Island. And even
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: before then, I mean, you've got to go back seven
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: years to find one, Nancy. So, yeah, people don't drown
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: on Horn Island. The locals are respectful of the area
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: and the current. But again, Nancy, you don't have a
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: lot of playing around in the water here. You have
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: a lot of standing around, socializing.
• 3:26
  Speaker 8: So.
• 3:27
  Speaker 7: It doesn't make any sense.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Guys, you're seeing part of Horn Island. I'm asking for
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the video of the boats that are anchored together because
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I want to verify what Dave Mack just said. I
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: want to make sure what he said is correct. Okay.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Most of the people are, the partiers are about at
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: chest level of water. And that includes women who would
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: typically be shorter than men. Nolan Wells. This is from
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Officer Tatum's show. Look at this. You're right, Dave Mack.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I don't see anybody swimming away. I don't see anybody, quote,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: falling asleep in the water. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is the star of
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: a YouTube hit, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. But
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: for our purposes, he is a death investigator with over
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: 10,000 death investigations under his belt. Joe Scott, thank you
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: for being with us tonight. Isn't it true, Joe Scott,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that when you, medical examiners, coroners, are determining COD, you
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: also look at extrinsic evidence? For instance, this is a
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: great example. I prosecuted a murder that came from an arson.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: The autopsy revealed that the victim, Patricia, also had a
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: blow to the head, a massive blow to the head.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Then she laid there in the burning home and had
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: smoke inhalation. She died in the hospital a couple of
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: days later from smoke inhalation. Okay, arson. Was it an
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: arson or was it an accident? After visiting 43, I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: believe it was, laundries, dry cleaners, I found where her
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: husband had taken all of his suits and all of
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: his nice clothes and and all of his fancy shoes
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: out of the home. When I went to the scene,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I said, where are his suits? Where are his clothes?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: He had taken them all to the dry cleaner, the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: suits and the shirts and the ties, everything, two days
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: before the fire. Then I thought, hmm. And I started
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: listening to the secret recordings he was trying to make
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: of his wife and her boyfriend. And I heard where
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: he called the weather service and asked, was it going
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to be raining on the day of the arson? And
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: they went, no, sunny. Then I heard where he called
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the insurance company before the arson and said, do you
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: cover replacement furniture in case there's a fire in my home?
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: You know, you put all that together, plus more, that's
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: extrinsic evidence proving he committed arson. Isn't it true you
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: look at extrinsic evidence when you determine a COD?
• 6:18
  Speaker 9: Of course, you look at the totality of all of
• 6:20
  Speaker 9: the circumstances and the physical evidence that you have there
• 6:23
  Speaker 9: when you're attempting to assess what brought about the death. Also,
• 6:30
  Speaker 9: we have to think about the statements of anybody that
• 6:34
  Speaker 9: observed any kind of behavior relative to some leading up
• 6:40
  Speaker 9: to an individual's death or an individual being found dead.
• 6:43
  Speaker 9: Most people, they suddenly forget that many deaths occur In private,
• 6:49
  Speaker 9: you know, so every bit of information that you can
• 6:54
  Speaker 9: glean from a scene or from those individuals that last
• 6:57
  Speaker 9: saw that subject is very important. It's not just looking
• 7:02
  Speaker 9: at the body and trying to assess trauma and these
• 7:05
  Speaker 9: sorts of things, but behaviors, ingestion of anything, whether it's
• 7:09
  Speaker 9: food or drink, and also any kind of physical maladies
• 7:14
  Speaker 9: an individual may have had. All of that plays into
• 7:17
  Speaker 9: our assessment, Nancy.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, can I see him, please? Ergo, I'm even
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: sorry I said that because only lawyers say things like that. Therefore,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: wouldn't the medical examiner take into account the extrinsic evidence
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that there have been no drownings on Horn Island going
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: on seven years ago?
• 7:40
  Speaker 9: Yeah, if the coroner had made the medical examiner aware
• 7:43
  Speaker 9: of that, I think that that would be significant. And
• 7:44
  Speaker 9: these are two separate people now. We have an elected
• 7:47
  Speaker 9: coroner in this county that has jurisdiction. The body would
• 7:50
  Speaker 9: have been sent to the state medical examiner to do
• 7:52
  Speaker 9: the assessment. So, yeah, hopefully that data was passed along.
• 7:57
  Speaker 9: And certainly Department of Wildlife and Fisheries that has governance
• 8:01
  Speaker 9: over this area, you know, that's like game wardens and
• 8:05
  Speaker 9: those sorts of people that patrol this kind of area.
• 8:08
  Speaker 9: They would certainly be aware because, you know, one of
• 8:10
  Speaker 9: the things that you're thinking about, you're not necessarily thinking
• 8:12
  Speaker 9: about the dead. One of the things you're thinking about
• 8:14
  Speaker 9: here is safety issues involving the living, you know, because
• 8:19
  Speaker 9: you want to be able to say, you know, this
• 8:21
  Speaker 9: is a dangerous area you shouldn't go to. The Coast
• 8:24
  Speaker 9: Guard would be aware of this as well, particularly these
• 8:26
  Speaker 9: findings relative to accidents and fatalities and all this stuff.
• 8:31
  Speaker 9: And I find it very, very interesting being very familiar
• 8:34
  Speaker 9: with this area that they have not had. any drownings
• 8:37
  Speaker 9: over a six-year period, Nancy.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Seemingly, that falling asleep and must have been drunk theory
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: is gaining traction.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: He was in the water. We do know that at
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: some point. So if he was trying to swim, once again,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: pure speculation, he got overwhelmed. People don't realize how quickly
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: you get tired swimming and how far distances are different.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: 100 yards on dry land is nothing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: No one, not a single witness places Nolan Wells asleep,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: asleep on a boat, asleep in the water, asleep on
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the sand, or trying to swim away from the party.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: That makes about as much sense as letting his cell
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: phone leave on a boat. That said, maybe to put
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: to rest some of these theories, joining us tonight is
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: a renowned oceanographer, Stephen DeMarco. He is joining us from Texas,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: professor of oceanography, Texas A & M. He is the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: director of the Geochemical Environmental Research Group at Texas A & M.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: He is a physical oceanographer who has been making measurements
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in the ocean for 33 years, many of them in
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the Gulf of Stephen DeMarco, thank you for being with
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: us tonight. My pleasure. I'm a veteran trial lawyer. I'd
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: rather be trying a murder case than almost anything else.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to tides and currents, I need
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: an expert. I'd like to hear... What you think about
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: claims that there's a riptide around Horn Island? I don't
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: see how that could be possible with so many people
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: partying there, many of them having been drinking and more.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: If there's a riptide, how come no drownings and going
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: on seven years, Professor?
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, looking at the video that you were just playing,
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: it looks like There was not much wind going on.
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: It looks like it was a calm day. It was
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: a summer day in the northern Gulf. And there tends
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: to be not a lot of dangerous currents, although they can.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, nothing is impossible. There can be times when
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: currents could occur, especially around a barrier island. Barrier islands
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: are subject to a lot of change. That's why they're
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: barrier islands.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: They move.
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: But it's slow, really slow geological timescales we're talking about,
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: not like weather, which is like just in the order
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: of one or two days. So it looks like.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've already lost me. You haven't even been talking
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: for two minutes and I'm completely lost. I'm sure you
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: can imagine how much experts would hide under the table
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: when they saw my beat up Toyota pulling up in
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the parking lot. Okay, you just said something about weather...
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: how the weather, are you saying how the weather plays
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: into it?
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, weather is short-term variability. When I look at things,
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: it's like things that happen on the order of one
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: or two days is weather. And barrier islands grow over
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: hundreds of years. And so it's, for me, the changes
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: in the barrier island wouldn't be very relevant here. It's
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: things like, is there any wind? The northern Gulf of
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: Mexico is very, very famous for very small tides. So
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: tides aren't a big thing. Summertime, other than a hurricane,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: there's not really much waves going on either. And waves
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: can cause problems for swimmers. They can cause problems with riptides.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: Riptides are areas where you have concentrated water flowing on
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: shore and then there's a backflow and people that get
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: caught in them could tire quickly. but there's usually a
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: signature of them. You could see that there's waves on
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: either side and you can see that there's where the
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: rip is going out. Conditions around that area are not
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: really conducive for strong currents or strong waves. Tides are
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: small in the Northern Gulf. So there's a lot of
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: different processes happening, but there's not a lot of really
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: strong processes going on at this particular time.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: You're saying that the weather affects it I assume water
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: temperature affects it. The weather that day, 91 degrees, calm wind.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: It's July the 4th. I mean, you can see in
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the video that they're not waves. The water temp, I
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: don't know what this would have to do with it,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: but I thought you would like it. Water temp is
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: 86 to 90 degrees in the water around Horn Island.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: So 91 degrees, wind calm, water 86 to 90 degrees.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: It means there's not a lot of variability. It means
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: there's not a lot of visibility either. There's a lot
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: of sediments in the ocean at that time. So you're
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: not able to really see on this particular day. I
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: would imagine there's just a lot of sediment.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: In the water.
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: You're right next to the largest river in the hemisphere,
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: but the Mississippi brings a lot of fluid and a
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: lot of sediment down the river. So to me, I guess.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I'm asking regarding riptides with the weather, the water temp,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: would any of that have anything to do with a riptide?
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: You can get riptides when you have convergence. Usually it
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: happens when there's windy conditions. It doesn't seem like there's
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: a lot of wind going on on this particular day.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: It doesn't mean that there, I don't have data, data scientists.
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: So I look at the data. Doesn't seem to be
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: a lot of wind going on, so riptides may be
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: not so prevalent, so probable at this particular time.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: You know, the reason I'm asking, Professor DeMarco, is because
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning, I mean, my business is so
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: different from yours. Mine is looking at the facts and what,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: if anything, is probative. What does anything prove or not?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: And almost immediately... Well, actually, not almost immediately. Immediately, it
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: was stated that this was a drowning, an accidental drowning
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: because of a riptide. And as a little girl, we
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: visited relatives and we stayed at their place on the Gulf.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And we could go out in the water, which was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: very rare. And I remember how mild it was. So
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: when it all started that Nolan had to have had
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: an accidental drowning death because of a riptide, I found
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the whole riptide concept very difficult to believe. Now, what
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: you're telling me is fitting into that. Professor, if you
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: look strictly at oceanography, is it possible for a person
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: who drowned in the water at Horn Island to end
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: up at the beach a full two days later?
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: Possible. definitely possible I mean if they're in the water
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: and the water's moving usually because the water's not leaving
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: there's all of a sudden there's not a lot of
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: water that's not against the island anymore so water is
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: constantly moving against the island it's it's possible.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Is it probable for him to be out floating in
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the water for two days I mean we know where
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: he was we just showed the video where the boats
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: were anchored close to shore. So where was he for
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: two days?
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: At the surface, the wind is directly driving that water.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: And under the surface, it takes a little bit more
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: force to move that object. And sometimes the water that's
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: subsurface can be moving in opposite direction than what's going
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: at the surface. But this is really shallow water. So
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: it tends to be that it all moves like a
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: big slab So all the water throughout the water, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: throughout the water column, we would call it the water column,
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: would move as one big slab. But typically, surface currents
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: are larger than subsurface currents.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So it would move slower. Hmm.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: What does the shape of Horn Island itself and the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: surrounding channels do? What does that have to do with
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: accelerating or redirecting water?
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, just looking at the bathymetry there, so the changes
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: in the depth around that, there's lots of subsurface undulations,
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: so it's shallow and deep and shallow and deep, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: that can cause also confluence occurrence, so convergences that can
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: speed up or slow down the water as it passes through.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: That's a complicated area. There's There's lots of different things
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: going on there. Local fishermen will tell you, surely. I
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: always rely on local people for sure. Even when I'm
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: doing my research in that area itself, I've done work
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: over the years there. You talk to the local people
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: to see what's going on. I look for where the
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: shrimpers are when I'm trying to organize a research cruise,
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: trying to figure out What are the different processes if
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: we're looking at the biology and the chemistry or the
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: physics of the ocean? I talked to the locals to
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: see what's going on there. And just looking at that
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: picture and the imagery that you're showing here, there's a
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: lot of variability that are going on. And all of
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: that can cause a lot of different processes to push
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: water around.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I'd like to see the aerial view of where all
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the debris, driftwood, kelp, was as opposed to where the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: body is found. The body of Nolan Wells is found
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: somewhere entirely different than where the waves have left ocean debris.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense to me, Professor.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so looking at that, it could be accumulation over
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: long periods of time, but it as we were talking
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: about weather earlier, also the very short period of time
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: could very much dictate where debris ends up onto the beach.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of beachcombers that walk beaches and they
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: find all kinds of things at different times. If I'm
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: walking along a beach and I see a dune there
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: and there's lots of sargassum seaweed or something like that
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: there and it's been a over a long period of time,
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of rotten seaweed that's sitting there. I
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: know that happened like quick or not quickly. It can
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: happen over a long period. If I just all of
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: a sudden see a bag of trash in one location,
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: I probably will come to the conclusion, if it looks
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: like it came from offshore, that it floated in recently.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I'm also curious why we are now in week what?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Out to you, Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. And
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: we still don't have a phone analysis. That's what originally
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: raised red flags with Nolan's mother that he had not
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: sent Any text, no photos, no snaps, no anything. And
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: then his phone left without him. I keep hearing screams
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to get the phone analyzed, but yet this far in,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: it still hasn't happened. Wouldn't that be something a grand
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: jury would like to hear about?
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: You'd think nine and a half weeks since Nolan Wells died,
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: died on Horn Island, Nancy, and the phone, we don't
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: even know who has the phone, Nancy. We know that
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: it's been a source of discussion, of debate, of argument
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: about who has the phone and where is it. Nolan's
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: family has the phone and there's been negotiations about how
• 21:24
  Speaker 7: it's going to be analyzed and whether or not they
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: will all do it together, meaning the experts from the
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: FBI and experts from Nolan Wells' family. and getting together
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: to analyze this. It seems like this is a piece
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: of evidence that we have to have, and it should
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: be broken down as a piece of evidence so that
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: the grand jury could enlighten themselves with the information found
• 21:49
  Speaker 7: on this phone. We only know that Nolan took it
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: to the island. We only know that Nolan left it
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: on the boat, or it was placed on the boat.
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: We just know that it came back without him. And now,
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: We still don't know anything about that phone.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: To Greg Morse joining us, veteran trial lawyer, founder of
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Morse Legal in Palm Beach, former West Palm Beach public
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: defender's office and author of The Untested. Morse, it's not
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that hard to agree to review a piece of evidence
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: with the prosecution and the defense and the experts together.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: In fact, I preferred for the defense to come during
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the examination so later at trial they couldn't claim the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: evidence was tampered with. How hard can it be? Pick
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a day. Show up.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: End of story.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Well, it's not difficult for the family and the prosecution,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: but the defense has to make calculated decisions on this stuff.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: There's nobody that's been arrested. There's nobody that's been even
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: named a suspect. So as the defense, I would not
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: be communicating with the prosecution. I wouldn't be agreeing to anything.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: And when you talk about this phone and evidence, I've
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: dealt with this countless times, especially in.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: My federal practice.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: There's ways to review the credibility of any download the
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: government does. It's called indexing. It mirrors the phone. So
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: a defense lawyer, as most of us are when we're
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: litigating cases and representing someone, we're reactionary anyway. There are
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: times that you're in agreement and you're working not with
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the prosecution, but being involved in an investigation before an
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: arrest occurs. But that's mostly when you're trying to convince
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: the prosecution not to charge your client or if you're
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: involved in white collar representation like I am. Those cases
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: tend to go on for years before someone is indicted
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: and you may be communicating with the government.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: But here you have a phone. It's been nine and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: a half weeks.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: So it's really there's no real rhyme or reason if
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: it hasn't been investigated. Maybe the police already have done that.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: They just haven't talked about it. You know, that happens sometimes.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like it in this case based on
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the family of Nolan Wells and what they've talked about
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: with the phone and their lawyers.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: But that could be the case.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: But however, I'm not sure why the defense would be
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: involved in anything here. There's no reason to be. So really,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: for the defense, there's nothing for them to do at all.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: You know, other than, you know, in the beginning, the
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: friends of Nolan Wells seem to be trying to provide
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: information to law enforcement to show, hey, they weren't even
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: on the island when this thing happened. But short of that,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: why would you even engage with the prosecution? As a
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: defense lawyer, all you could do is create information against
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: your client.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: The victim's mother or family have the phone, and they,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: for their own reasons, do not want to hand the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: phone over to the state without being there when it
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: is examined. And what I don't get is it's been
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: nine weeks now and still there hasn't been an examination
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: date of the phone, which I believe could be very,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: very probative. In other words, what is or is not
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: on there or may have been deleted is very probative.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: What is on there and what may not be on
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: there could actually tell us something about what happened. So
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: it's not that hard to have a mutual inspection of
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the evidence. I've done it many times with the defense.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: In fact, I encourage it. But the process of inspecting
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the phone, also not difficult for a digital forensics expert
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to do. Also not difficult. My question to you is,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: isn't this the type of evidence a grand jury would
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: be interested in hearing?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Well, they would be if it's relevant. I mean, you
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: don't know what's on the phone.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: You're speculating as to there's something nefarious on the phone
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: that would be a link in the chain of If.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Nothing was missing, if the phone were used during that
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: time and there was no problem, wouldn't that be exculpatory
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: for anyone under suspicion? And if the facts were otherwise,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't be so good for them?
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Well, you know yourself, a prosecutor is not going to
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: present exculpatory evidence in a grand jury proceeding.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That's not what they do.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Grand jury proceedings are one way unless they're for investigative.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Non-criminal purposes, which is rare.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: So, no, this is something that, listen, I've represented victims'
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: families before.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I've represented victims of crimes rarely.
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: You simply give law enforcement the phone.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: As much as I would love to hear about all
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the people that Greg Morse has represented in all of
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: your courtroom wins, to me, this is very important evidence,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: critical evidence, because the mom and the family first raised
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the issue regarding the phone. I'm hearing something. Oh, it's Morse.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Please stop it. The family thinks it's critical. Don't you
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: think law enforcement, if you want to throw out the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: grand jury, fine. Wouldn't law enforcement want to know what
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: was or was not on the phone? What's the hold up?
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Why are you evading my question?
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: If they were investigating a crime, and yeah, I think
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: they would, but I don't know why the family hasn't
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: given it to them.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: The family controls that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: So this notion that, oh, they're going to doctor the
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: phone or do something improper just doesn't make any sense.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Any download is indexed. Anyone can see what was changed
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: if something was in a download. I've dealt with them
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: so many times in my career. So that's a non-issue.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: There's another reason, potentially, and it's not because... people are
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: concerned or the family that the phone's going to be manipulated.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: That makes no sense at all.
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: The cell service isn't great at the island, but once you,
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: I mean, you can use your phone, but stuff might
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: not descend. And like, I mean, it's not, it's not great.
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: You know, you got maybe one board. It won't work
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: that well, but once you get a little off the island,
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: you have cell coverage. And even on the island, like
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: I called my mom when we were on the island,
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: you know, it was fine. Like we had, we had,
• 28:06
  Speaker 8: you know, enough cell coverage to make a phone call
• 28:08
  Speaker 8: or shoot a text over, but you're not, you don't
• 28:10
  Speaker 8: have enough cell coverage to like send a picture, for example.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So Joe Scott Morgan joining us, death investigator, again, back
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: to extrinsic evidence. Oh, that is from the officer Tatum show.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: That was Warren Hudson speaking. Joe Scott, I understand why
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Nolan's mother is still upset about this phone. Okay. From
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: what we understand, the family still has it because a date,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: for the investigators law enforcement to inspect it still has
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: not happened if i were investigating this case i want
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to see that phone you just heard one of the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: acquaintances state he called his mother he took pictures he
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: could text from horn island no wonder the mother is
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: upset that there's this huge big blank reportedly on his phone.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: There's nothing. There's no snaps. There's no WhatsApp. There's no text.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: There's no videos, no pictures, nothing. Everything is gone. And
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: she says he was glued to his phone. So isn't
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: that something that the medical examiner or coroner or death
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: investigator like yourself would take into account as to what
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: happened to him?
• 29:25
  Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: This is why, because we now have a digital world
• 29:32
  Speaker 9: that we live in where we can track movement, we
• 29:34
  Speaker 9: can track activity, and all of these sorts of things,
• 29:37
  Speaker 9: things that for years and years we'd longed to have. But,
• 29:40
  Speaker 9: you know, with the digital world that we live in,
• 29:43
  Speaker 9: we can marry that up, Nancy, along with the physical
• 29:46
  Speaker 9: findings that we have, say, at autopsy, exam at the scene,
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: or maybe the information that comes in to us about
• 29:53
  Speaker 9: behavioral stuff relative to alcohol consumption, drug consumption, any kind
• 29:58
  Speaker 9: of health issues, all of that. So it all marries together.
• 30:01
  Speaker 9: And again, I don't understand why feet are being drug here.
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: I don't understand why this has not gone to a
• 30:08
  Speaker 9: grand jury yet, which they said that was going to happen.
• 30:11
  Speaker 9: And here's the problem. The optics on this are horrible
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: because the longer this thing kind of drags out, this
• 30:18
  Speaker 9: thing festers. It continues to fester. And it's better if
• 30:22
  Speaker 9: we can go ahead investigatively and put this to bed with.
• 30:26
  Speaker 10: Facts, Nancy.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of festering, let me see, Joe Scott, please.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I understand that toxicology reports take several days, but it's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at the nine-week mark.
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: Don't take this long.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Toxicology does not take that long. Now, we've heard through
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: sources there was a lot of speculation, oh, Nolan Wells
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: used cocaine. We've heard reports that no cocaine is found
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: in his body. So that's a load of B.S., Probably
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the same type of people that said he fell asleep
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: or he tried to swim away from the party or
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: it's an accidental. I mean, all of this speculation. We've
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: been told from a source still waiting on the medical
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: examiner's report that there was no cocaine in Nolan Wells' system.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: That aside, Joe Scott, eight weeks, nine weeks. Are you
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: kidding me? Of course the tox is back. So what
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: if he had beer?
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: That doesn't really change anything.
• 31:25
  Speaker 10: No, it doesn't. And that's the reality of, of youth. Right.
• 31:28
  Speaker 9: And so, but yeah, it doesn't take this long. And,
• 31:32
  Speaker 9: you know, we, we kind of joke about this, uh,
• 31:35
  Speaker 9: you know, in, in all of these cases we talk about, well,
• 31:38
  Speaker 9: you know, it's pending. Well, yeah, because it's this kind of,
• 31:41
  Speaker 9: but this should not be pending this long. It does
• 31:44
  Speaker 9: not take this long, even in an estate of decomposition, which,
• 31:49
  Speaker 9: you know, the second autopsy alluded to, uh, you're going
• 31:53
  Speaker 9: to have results back. And where are they going to
• 31:55
  Speaker 9: get these from? Just so that we can educate our
• 31:58
  Speaker 9: audience out there, you're going to get it from vitreous
• 32:00
  Speaker 9: humor that comes from the eye. We're going to get
• 32:02
  Speaker 9: it from urine. We're going to get it from blood.
• 32:05
  Speaker 9: You can do a blood draw directly from the heart,
• 32:07
  Speaker 9: the aorta. You can do peripheral blood out of.
• 32:10
  Speaker 10: The femoral artery.
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: And then we have tissue samples that we can actually
• 32:15
  Speaker 9: study as well. So all of this stuff, it sounds overwhelming,
• 32:19
  Speaker 9: but given the amount of time that they have had.
• 32:23
  Speaker 10: With these samples. We should have results by now.
• 32:27
  Speaker 9: This is going to be a full spectrum analysis, what
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: we call a standard panel. They're going to be looking
• 32:34
  Speaker 9: for everything, everything from aspirin to meth will be listed
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: on this.
• 32:38
  Speaker 10: All right. And it'll either say it's there.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Or it's not.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I got so many questions such as, I saw the body.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I saw photos that we have not publicized of the body.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: He did not look bloated. I don't understand why he
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: didn't look bloated. I also don't understand the mom was afraid,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: concerned that night. Did nobody, did law enforcement not go
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: to the island for two days? If so, why? And
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: if they did go, where was he? How did he
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: just appear to in that location two days later? Where
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: was his body for two days? Just so many questions,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: and tonight, for all of us, why is there radio silence?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Why are we hearing nothing from law enforcement, nothing from
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the DA, nothing from the grand jury, nothing from nobody?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Do they think we're going to just forget about the
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Nolan Wells case because that is not going to happen.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: And all this business about an accidental drowning, oh, the
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: first one in nearly seven years, that defies probability. That
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: he swam away from the party, not likely. That he
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: fell asleep in the water and just died. If you
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: know or think you know anything regarding this case, please
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: dial 228-769-3063. There is a $ 125, 000 reward for information leading
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to the truth of what happened to Nolan Wells. We
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Brandon Sykes, Columbia County Sheriff's Office, Georgia,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: just 31, shot and killed in the line of duty,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: leaving behind his wife Amber and daughter, Lindsay, American hero,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Sheriff Brandon Sykes. Thank you to all of our guests
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: for being with us tonight, but especially to you for
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: being with us in our search for the truth and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: what happened to this young man, Nolan Wells. Nancy Grace
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And until then, good night, friend.