Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 291 - CLINTON WITNESSES & CLOSING ARGUMENTS

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 291 - CLINTON WITNESSES & CLOSING ARGUMENTS · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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  Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of nineteen seventy six provides protection
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  to use copyrighted material for research, analysis, education, and commentary purposes.
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  We hear at Loose Moose Productions reserve that right now. On with the show.
• 0:18
  Here's Joe b and the Triple B. Hey and you Deane house things
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  in Texas. Everything is going to hail down here in Dustice Jan Joie and
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  Joey, Joey and You and Joy and Joey Rock John Gay Job and Joey,
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  Joey and Jim and Jobby and Joey, Joggy Joe rat here and j
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  j and here we go, Here we go muted. Not me this time.
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  You should have dismouthed the words for me, you know, like help
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  a brother out. I didn't want to step on your toes again. Hey,
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  it's all good. What's up everybody? Take two. Welcome to the
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  show. This is episode two hundred and ninety one of the Lone Gunman Podcast,
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  and tonight we're gonna be talking about the Clinton witnesses. And these are
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  the folks that Garrison really hedged his bets on when it came to the clay
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  Shaw trial. Not necessarily Perry Russo when we're gonna get into what they saw
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  and what they said tonight, and we're also going to be looking at the
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  closing arguments of the shaw Trow, of which there are three, not just
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  one, Joe, not just two, three closing arguments from three different prosecutors
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  from the District Attorney's office. So it wasn't quite like the movie, you
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  know, where Garrison just did it all. He actually did very little in
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  the shaw Trow if you go back and check out the transcripts. But anyway,
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  welcome to the show. I know we are. We pushed it back
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  a little bit tonight for our co host. Not my fault, ev Joe
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  Barbecue Morelli, Welcome, Welcome, my friend. Oh thank you, sir.
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  Yes, I had to go to a barbecue with my girlfriend this evening,
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  but I took different cars to It was like five to eight, and
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  I was like, I gotta leave it like seven fifteen latest, and you
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  know, the things we do for love. And speaking of I'm also missing
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  the Ranger game which is starting in about five minutes, because where would I
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  rather be than with all our beautiful listeners and you, sir, the big
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  bad Bob. Yes, and it wouldn't be a show if we didn't have
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  our group of faithfuls here with us. What's up, Moose, Big Mike
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  is in the house. He missed last week, but he's here today,
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  Big Tray representing. I loved his comments. What's up, Ev? Big
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  call Nanty Dean south to West in the house, a little tiny dancer,
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  Hello, Hello, let's see Ev. Colleen the Rocket Queen's in the house.
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  And Sally is here. Hello. Sally Bungled made it in by the
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  skin of his teeth. Greg is here. What's up Greg? Let's see
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  Jack is here? Jackie, so welcome. Welcome all you guys. That's
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  a long list. God, uh, each and every one of them.
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  We do, we do. So before we get started with the meat of
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  the show here, I wanted to start off with something when Joe stepped on
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  my toes last show when I was talking about h David Ferry coming to Oswald's
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  apartment in New Orleans the night of the assassination and what was he Was he
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  looking for his library card or or a picture? I believe it was the
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  library card that Gee Ray Gil had informed him. Yeah. So in the
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  in the Shaw trial, they called missus Jesse Jeane Garner no relation to D.
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  A. G. O. Although it would be amazing if like it
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  was his mom or something, but unfortunately, allegedly they're not related. Allegedly,
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  although I do know that D. A. G. O had ties
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  in New Orleans and I think he was even born there. I don't know
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  if you all remember that whole what was it Diego manuscript that was found in
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  the antique store in New Orleans. But uh so this is what you write,
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  yeah with the boy? Okay, yeah, well I don't know that.
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  No, that was that was something totally different. No, no,
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  no, no. So I'm gonna read you a little short excerpt from this
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  just to just to give you an idea of how ridiculous this this all went
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  down at the clay Shaw trial. So question, I would like to have
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  fairries picture please, MSUs Garner. I show you a photograph which has been
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  marked for identification state number three being a photo graph of the late David Ferry.
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  And I ask you whether you have ever seen that man in your life?
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  To your knowledge? Yes, I did you did? Yes? Well
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  did you see in my house? In your house? Yes? When was
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  that? What was either the same day that happened that President Kennedy got killed,
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  or the following day he came in. He rang the bell and opened
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  the door, and there was some mister Alcock, I object to anything said,
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  your honor the court. It is objectionable, of course, mister Diamond,
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  you may not say what anybody said to you, but I wish that
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  you would tell the circumstances under which you saw this man. Well, I
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  could say about him coming home, Yes, you could say about that.
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  I don't know if it was the same night or the following night. As
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  soon as it happened, there was so many coming in and out. I
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  opened the door because I thought he was a secret serviceman or something. I
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  don't know. So as I walked in, he says to me, objection,
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  your honor. You can't say what he said. I can't say what
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  he said. No, was he with any wanner? By himself? He
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  was alone? And how long did he stay there a few minutes? And
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  when I found out he was not somebody important, I just asked him to
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  get the hell out of my house. You asked him to get out?
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  Yes? Is that the only Well, what I'm trying to say, when
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  I found out he was not an FBI man, I just asked him to
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  leave. I see. Now, do you recall whether this evening of the
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  assassination or the evening after the assassination. I don't really remember, but I
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  do think it was the same night, the same night, or the following
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  night. It was the evening, late after dark. So you know,
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  they're trying the implications of David Ferry showing up at Oswald's apartment in New Orleans
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  the night of the assassination looking for something that they won't let her say in
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  court because it's hearsay. But if she was able to say, hey,
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  David Faery showed up in my house, he was asking about Oswald. Maybe
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  he left behind a library card or something that would be pretty damning to David
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  Ferry, even though David Ferry is already dead by now. But you know,
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  I don't know. I just thought it was interesting that they wouldn't let
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  her say in court why David Faerries showed up at her house on the night
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  of the assassination. And that just tells you all you need to know,
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  folks. But anyway, the Garrison case, the Shaw trial, you know,
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  it wasn't all about Perry Russo. In fact, when he started his
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  trial, he called these a certain group of witnesses, and these are the
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  folks that managed to see and identify Clay Shaw, David Ferry, and Lee
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  Harvey Oswald in the company of each other in the cities of Clinton and Jackson,
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  Louisiana. Now you would think, as did Garrison probably as well,
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  that when Joe runs down through these witnesses of people that have no skin in
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  the game, they have no dog in the fight. These people can say,
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  yeah, I saw that guy with that guy and that guy and positively
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  identify a multiple witnesses, folks, multiple witnesses that you know it would have
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  sensed his case against Shaw. Now, it doesn't necessarily prove that Shaw was
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  the mastermind of the assassination or anything like that, but it makes it very
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  suspect. When you have David Ferry showing up at Lee Harvey Oswell's apartment the
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  night of the assassination, that suspect. It's suspected when you have Lee Harvey
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  Oswald hanging out with David Ferry and Clay Shaw in two cities that are one
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  hundred miles away from New Orleans for what reason, I don't know, but
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  it's still suspect. So Joe, without further ado, let us dive in
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  to the Clinton and Jackson witnesses. Sir, thank you, sir. And
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  yeah, it's a fascinating topic of the assassination. And I was relatively you
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  know, I was an expert on the subject, so I was looking into
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  it a lot this week. And this is actually an ACA witness list and
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  it's kind of been chronological order. So the first person who saw Lee Harvey
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  Oswald was named Edwin mcgeehee, and he was a barber in Jackson, Louisiana,
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  and oswaldt came in to get a haircut. He asked Edwin McGahee if
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  he knew any where he could find work, and McGahee referred him to the
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  East Louisiana State Hospital and specifically to the next person on the list named Reeves
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  Morgan. And this was the person who Oswalt went to his house. He
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  was a state representative for the East Feliciana Parish and Lee Harvey Oswalt spoke to
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  him about a job at the hospital. He was a security guard there and
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  he was also backed up by his daughter, Mary Morgan, who was a
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  teenager then who didn't say she saw Oswalt. But said she saw a black
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  Cadillac, which will be very relevant as we get into the next few witnesses.
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  So that was the first day. The next day, Lee Harvey Oswalt
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  allegedly showed up at Clinton, Louisiana the voting registration line, and the next
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  person to witness him was the town marshall, which was kind of like a
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  police officer back then. His name was John B. Manchester, and he
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  was the one who saw clay Shaw behind the wheel of that said black cadillac,
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  and also Lee Harvey Oswalt in the in front of the voter registration office
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  in the registration line. And the next person in the chronological events is the
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  registrar of voters for Clayton, Louisiana, and his name was Henry Earl Palmer.
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  And Palmer also saw a black Cadillac outside the voter registration office during the
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  black voter registration drive. And he saw the next witness we'll talk about,
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  Corey Collins of CORR which was the Congress of Racial Equity standing near He saw
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  Corey Collins, this is mister Palmer near the cadillac, and he showed mister
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  Palmer his Navy I D Card which read Lee h Oswalt. Next Corey Collins
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  in the black What he saw was saw Lee Harvey Oswald. And all these
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  witnesses were showing different pictures and they picked out Oswalt, although granted it was
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  you know, three or four years later when some of the four years later
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  when some of the investigations started, so that picture might have stood out to
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  them more than others. But he also saw it David Ferry in a black
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  Cadillac. A couple of the witnesses noticed his crazy eyebrows. And the next
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  is William Dunn Senior, who was a member of CORP as well from Clinton,
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  Louisiana, and saw a black Cadillac in front of the voter registration office.
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  Talked with Corey Collins, the person I talked about just before, and
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  he also identified Shaw behind the wheel of the black cadillac and identified Lee Hervey
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  Oswald standing in line at the registrar's office. So after there are multiple people
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  who said that Lee Harvey Oswalt was standing out in the voter line for hours,
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  and that means like ten thirty am to three thirty pm and after that,
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  so that's more than five hours. And everyone said the Cadillac was parked
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  on the side the whole time. And that's very interesting because that's a long
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  time to wait, especially because when Lee Harvey Oswald got up to mister Palmer
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  and on the in the voter registration line, he first of all, he
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  signed his name, but the entry was lost, unfortunately. And when Oswalt
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  was told that he needed to be like a registered voter and you need to
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  live here to be a registered voter, and the constituents will get jobs before
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  you because they're you know, locally based, he said, okay, thank
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  you and got in the car and left. So that's a long time to
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  be sitting and standing in line in By all accounts, it was over ninety
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  degrees in late August early September. And that's one of the other things that
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  some of the lone nutters, because there's a big argument here is are these
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  witnesses credible? And was Lee Harvey Oswald actually there? And Gerald Posner wrote
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  a whole thing about it, and it got a lot of rebuttals from people
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  in the community, including was it George D. Ginoj James James D.
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  Eugenio, Yes, that was it. And and you know it's funny because
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  he is obviously on the pro Clinton and Jackson witnesses side. And uh,
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  well we'll get to whether Rob or I agree with that, because it's it's
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  a very it's very complicated here. And but if you notice, there are
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  nine people on this list here, this is the HSCA list. And as
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  Rob was alluding to before, the first five witnesses in the Garrison trial,
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  we're all from Jackson, Louisiana. That would be Edwin McGehee, Reeves Morgan
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  and Clinton Louisiana, John Manchester, Henry Old Palmer, and Corey Collins.
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  So the first day he let off his opening arguments and hers opening witnesses as
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  the Clinton and Jackson witnesses, which is very interesting in something that I had
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  n't know really to be honest, Ding ding ding. This is the comment
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  of the hour. Joe, Let's hear it. Lho is the only white
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  boy there. I would say he might have stood out. I would say
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  so too, Yes, well, you know that's what makes him memorable these
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  you know, him doing this weird stuff, hanging out with these two old
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  dudes and one weird looking guy in a nice sweet black Cadillac pulling up in
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  town where nobody knows who the hell these people are. They're going to be
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  memorable, and what did they do to Lee Harvey Oswald? All throughout this
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  scenario of the assassination make him memorable for whatever reason, you know, whether
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  it be the whole test driving a car thing or you know whatever, I'm
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  gonna be coming into some money soon, you know, stuff like that.
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  But you know, this is a perfect example of something of you know,
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  done to make him memorable, whether it be standing in line for hours to
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  register to vote in a city which doesn't even live in, you know,
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  and he goes and tries to get a job at the Statemental Hospital there in
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  Jackson so he can vote. It's just weird. It's just weird, weird
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  all the way around, very sir. And to Tray's comment, such sure
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  for a second, there was actually another white guy on the line, according
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  to many witnesses, and that is mister Anglia O'Keeffe. No Angus Morgan.
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  Uh well hello dad, mister Gallson. You can look at mine and fine
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  and those threads. Uh how mister guys saying we love voting wherever we want.
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  I found out you got my vote, mister gal We got my vote.
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  Any day of the weekness. Hold on, let me put this back
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  here. So the other white guy alleged, and this was by two of
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  the witnesses. If you see, oh, I mean actually present it.
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  I love this ship. I love it all right, I guess. And
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  did cut a fine figure in that suit column jolly green giant for nothing Joseph
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  any time he won't. So if you look at the bottom here I added
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  two people. Mary Morgan was Reeves's daughter who I mentioned, who observed a
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  black Cadillac Cadillac when Lee visited her father's home, who was the state representative.
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  And there was the other guy, Estes Morgan. I've seen it spelled
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  with a us stus Morgan. There is no relation to Mary Morgan or Reeves
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  Morgan allegedly. And he was the only other white guy in line to vote.
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  And I think it was Manchester and Palmer who both said that they saw
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  him, but they weren't next to each other. There are three two or
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  three people separated from each other. So and one person even said that they
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  got out of the same car. So there are some conflicting witness reports,
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  but that's going to happen pretty much anywhere when you're talking to people four years
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  after the fact. Right, I just made a little Google Mac screenshot here.
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  This is j Accent on the top left. Can you see the rob
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  Yes, I can. Do you like my circling abilities, It's amazing.
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  I use I use shapes instead of just my hand with a mouse. So
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  I say they looked a little neater than normal exactly. You can scratch burly.
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  Yes. And if you go from New Orleans up you know north up
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  three ten to ten past bout Baton Rouge, I guess up nineteen or sixty
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  one on the left, top left side of your street, you get first
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  to Jackson, which, of course the barber shop and also the hospital,
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  the mental hospital was located. I can just picture I can picture it in
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  my mind, Clay Shawl driving his black Cadillac with David Ferry and Lee Oswald
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  in the back, blowing through their hair, just to giggling and laughing the
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  wh way, the whole ride. Yeah, I don't know if the black
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  Cadillac was convertible, but you never know what Clay shaw I'm pretty sure it
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  was. Oh really, I didn't. I didn't for some reason, it's
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  in my mind like that, Joe. For some reason, I may have
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  read that somewhere at some time. I don't know. Well, I'm not
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  going to do double gas, u misgas. My mind is full of useless
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  facts for thirty five years. Hey, useless. I didn't tell you where
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  I read it, not to others. And Jackson and Clinton are about twelve
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  miles from each other, and it's about a little over one hundred miles from
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  New Orleans up to those two towns, a little about two hours. It
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  says two to three hours, and some of the documents, but you can
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  make it in two and Google maps. These days cars pretty much drove the
• 24:07
  same speed if you needed them to back then, So who knows. But
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  I just wanted to give some of the viewers a mental image of how far
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  Jackson and Clinton were away. And it's funny because if you keep going up
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  sixty one and you keep going kind of north a little west, you get
• 24:33
  to my favorite town, Shreveport, Louisiana. And speaking of Shreveport, I
• 24:41
  was reading something from the Daly Ploset Echo about the Clinton things, and it
• 24:47
  was going back and forth with you know, back and forth on Posner's claims.
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  And one of Possler's claims were that the witnesses but found by Jim Garrison's
• 25:00
  investigators or were found by Jim Garrison's investigators in nineteen sixty seven, and goes
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  on to say that Garrison's team coached them to say what they did what to
• 25:11
  say at the trial. This is false. John Rehrick, a district judge,
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  spoke to two of the witnesses, eddh and Reeves Morgan. Those would
• 25:18
  be the first two shortly after the assassination, and a story about this was
• 25:23
  printed in a Shreveport newspaper called The Councilor Report comes up again in the story,
• 25:33
  Folks, Yes, and the counselor Rob we I pulled up an article
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  or two from this paper at some point in the last six months, and
• 25:44
  I saw it, and I could. I searched for probably an hour for
• 25:47
  this article and I could not find it. So if anyone out there wants
• 25:53
  to help a little homework assignment, try to. And it doesn't give a
• 25:56
  date, so it's really hard to find this. But it has to be
• 26:03
  nineteen sixty five, early in nineteen sixty six, maybe late sixty four,
• 26:07
  But it's really hard to find, and it's hard to search the archives of
• 26:14
  old newspapers. But of course, on the right hand side the FBI shocking
• 26:18
  response to those allegations. Whereas in January sixty eight we learned that Reeves Morgan
• 26:23
  alleged that Lee Harvey Oswalt was in Clinton and Jackson areas. We learned also
• 26:29
  that Morgan alleged he furnished this information to the FBI at some point after the
• 26:33
  assassination of President Kennedy. We made a thorough review of our files at the
• 26:37
  time and found no record that Morgan had ever furnished this information to us at
• 26:42
  that time. We also made a thorough review of her files for any information
• 26:48
  that Lee Harvey Oswalt had ever been in the Clinton or Jackson areas. Our
• 26:52
  files contained no information that Oswald had ever been in these areas. This information
• 26:57
  was furnished the PART in several communications in early nineteen sixty eight. So what
• 27:06
  are we to make of this? Is this from Joan Mellon. Couldn't find
• 27:15
  it, so that was from it? Who was talking about? So that's
• 27:18
  a daily plaosa echo article from Yeah, but was it referring to Joe Mellen
• 27:23
  looking for this article and couldn't find it. It didn't refer to Joe Mellon
• 27:29
  because I think she interviewed a bunch of these people too. She did,
• 27:33
  she did, and you know she was big on the Garrison and New Orleans
• 27:37
  scene, but also are one of our favorite researchers. And I won't even
• 27:44
  do the sound bite for this because we already did it. Mister Eugenio's say
• 27:48
  it right on, unlike Crystal mark On Kennedy's. And King also stated that
• 28:00
  according to witness mcgeehee, not only was he aware of it from his own
• 28:06
  personal experience, but word of the incident was printed in the council or periodical
• 28:10
  before the Garrison probe started, So that's out there. It's from a couple
• 28:17
  of different people. I was unable to find it, but if anyone can,
• 28:22
  I would be much much grateful because that woul pretty much put it to
• 28:26
  rest, right in terms of of I don't know when the article would be
• 28:32
  dated, but and I don't even know how Garrison got put on to these
• 28:38
  folks out there, whether it was through the road share, met the deal,
• 28:42
  and they just kind of, you know, worked in reverse or heard
• 28:49
  rumors of such things and investigated and you know, it's just it's sketchy,
• 28:56
  but you would think you know, you got like I said, you got
• 28:59
  what said? Are any people here Joe that say, hey, this is
• 29:03
  what we saw? It's sus you know, so like what are they doing
• 29:10
  with this guy? Yeah? No, I agree, And I actually was
• 29:15
  reading another article that says it was actually fourteen, but Garrison called eight from
• 29:21
  Jackson and Clinton both in the other six were heroin addicts and who is But
• 29:30
  you know, eat witnesses And when you think about, like how much because
• 29:36
  you know, a lot of people like the discredit Garrison because he might have
• 29:40
  not been completely straight up or whatever with like a witness or two, might
• 29:47
  have intimidated one or two got a statement, whatever. But does that mean
• 29:52
  that everything he does is completely you know, thrown away because of that?
• 29:57
  It assuming that's true, right, A lot of people do that to him.
• 30:03
  Well, that's the thing. It's so easy to either like pick your
• 30:07
  spots, right, you could just discredit Garrison and completely if it doesn't fit
• 30:12
  your narrative, just throw away anything he says, right, or you could
• 30:17
  use it in bits and pieces, or you can completely believe them. Right.
• 30:22
  Well, you can have these eight witnesses, you can put them in
• 30:23
  the courtroom and it could go horribly wrong for you if you seriously screw up
• 30:32
  the questioning, especially if you don't ask the right questions and you don't vet
• 30:37
  these people and you know they can be easily torn apart by Diamond and his
• 30:44
  boys, you know, then Yeah, And I don't think clay Shaw's lawyers
• 30:49
  were were public defenders right like they were. No, they were highly paid
• 30:55
  lawyers. They will tear you the f up on cross examination if they need
• 31:00
  to, like, if they can, right, like, So you're not
• 31:03
  going to lead off the whole trial with eight witnesses that are say eight Perry
• 31:10
  Russo's right, it's it's a lot. And how much. No, I'm
• 31:17
  actually drinking from a Mets cup. We believe Alpha six, Alpha sixty six.
• 31:25
  Any update from the game. He said he was gonna update me on
• 31:27
  the chat here, so I don't have to check my phone. What a
• 31:30
  guy. They're losing their down two to one, Joe, stop it,
• 31:36
  stop it. You know, I don't have to squirrel. I know you.
• 31:41
  If they are, I'm going to be really mad at even Let's put
• 31:44
  it that way, all right. So Garrison and one of his assistant DA's
• 31:53
  Andrew Sciambra, actually had the balls to right to Hoover saying and requesting information
• 32:06
  relative to Lee Harvey Oswalt's presence in the Jackson and Clinton, Louisiana area in
• 32:10
  the late summer of sixty three. On February fourteenth, nineteen sixty eight,
• 32:15
  we received a reply to this letter from mister Jean Oh. This is the
• 32:20
  DA from the Eastern District of Louisiana. I believe that's Paton Rouge and Red
• 32:27
  Stick. As noted in our letter to mister Litchfield, our office has information
• 32:34
  indicating that Lee Harvey Oswalt was in the Jackson and Clinton, Louisiana area sometime
• 32:38
  in the late summer of sixty three. Therefore, would you please send us
• 32:43
  any information you have relative to Oswalt's presence in that area at that time.
• 32:47
  And this is a great line here. If you have no information relative to
• 32:51
  Oswalt's presence there at that time, we would appreciate a reply from you indicating
• 32:58
  this. That's funny. What do you think Hoover said when he saw that
• 33:04
  one? Oh man, they go with yourself, buddy. That's exactly what
• 33:08
  he said. And there was a there was a response, but it was
• 33:13
  generic and it wasn't from Hoover, he delegated it. But I mean they
• 33:16
  felt so strong about it, right, And this is that's why I shared
• 33:21
  this document. They felt so strong about it that they wrote a letter to
• 33:27
  Hoover about it, and I think they knew about the likely response, right.
• 33:31
  Well, I mean, you know, I think Hoover would have been
• 33:38
  I think him and Klay Shaw and David Ferry would have been fast friends given
• 33:45
  their proclivities. That's true, you know, but yeah, it's it's ridiculous.
• 33:55
  Stephen asked at that point. Yeah, and of course Banister had had
• 34:00
  relationship with him. I mean, Hoover demoted him, right, and what
• 34:04
  did he send them to? North Dakota was one of those And I know
• 34:07
  that there was some belief that maybe the old dude that was driving the Cadillac
• 34:12
  was not Shaw but was actually Guy Banister. Either way, whether it was
• 34:20
  Guy Banister or Clay Shaw, it's still suspect as hell, given the fact
• 34:27
  that Lee Harvey Oswall was seen around Banister's office, knew David Ferry since he
• 34:32
  was a teenager. Ferry was around Banister's office, Ferry was around Shaw's office.
• 34:38
  You know, all these guys knew each other, So it doesn't really
• 34:43
  matter one way or the other who it was. It's just the company that
• 34:46
  they were all keeping together on that trip. It's it's just a mind deaf
• 35:00
  they're trying to do. I don't know, you know, And like I
• 35:04
  was telling Joe before the show, I don't think that Lee Harvey Oswald had
• 35:07
  any animosity toward an integration or or black people specifically, you know, given
• 35:15
  that you know, he grew up poor, He grew up poor in Louisiana
• 35:21
  and Texas, and you know he was around these people all the time.
• 35:25
  You know, he was. You didn't hear any colored person in the school
• 35:30
  book depository to work with him say anything bad about him. You know,
• 35:35
  they talked to him, He talked to them. I mean you had Charles
• 35:40
  Gibbons checking his orders or Junior Jarman checking his orders, you know, putting
• 35:45
  him below Junior Jarman, and yeah, eating the Domino room with those guys
• 35:52
  talking to them. You know a lot of these people, you know,
• 35:55
  they wouldn't even talk to black people back back in the day. You know.
• 36:00
  But and would you say that the Congress on Racial Equalities what this was
• 36:07
  trying to disrupt? Do you think? Yes? Yes, yeah, where
• 36:10
  they're trying to register black voters, yep, you know. And what does
• 36:15
  the presence of one or two weird white guys have to do with anything other
• 36:22
  than trying to make a scene. But it wasn't like they were being disruptive.
• 36:27
  They were just standing in line waiting to register to vote. It wasn't
• 36:29
  like they were stomping up and down the sidewalk going don't let the black people
• 36:34
  vote, you know, yep. I mean from all accounts they were.
• 36:37
  It's more like they were standing inequality, you know, like in support of
• 36:46
  what they were trying to do. So, I don't know, it's very
• 36:50
  weird stuff. And because like Joe said, well you do the analogy of
• 36:54
  the Fair Play for Cuba Committee for the people that you explaining to me earlier.
• 37:00
  Sure, so this is one of the things I was reading and recall
• 37:06
  how quickly the fair Play for Cuba Committee folded after the JFK assassination, in
• 37:12
  only a matter of weeks once it had been linked, however, superficially with
• 37:19
  the alleged assassin of President Kennedy, and that brings up was the same type
• 37:24
  of fate intended for the Congress of Racial Equality in the South aka Corps was
• 37:31
  attaching up a future well known communist, right because he wasn't at the time.
• 37:37
  I mean, you know this actually in late August early September, which
• 37:43
  is when this event is supposed to have happened. This is after the Harvey
• 37:46
  Oswald gets arrested on August ninth, I know that day, nineteen sixty three,
• 37:52
  and also after his TV and radio interview with Brigna and Ed Butler of
• 38:00
  INCA. So he was semi known by then, but it's not going to
• 38:05
  be known by random people in random towns, towns an hour north, one
• 38:09
  hundred miles north, two hours one hundred miles north. Right, So was
• 38:15
  this some type of and that's I think one of the long suspective things that
• 38:22
  they were up to, was this trying to sink maybe the Congress of Racial
• 38:27
  Equality or like they eventually did with the Fair Play for Cuba committee, like
• 38:35
  co Intail pro. You're you're finding co Intaeil pro to a T. Joe.
• 38:39
  You know, that's you're good. That's exactly what they said under Yeah,
• 38:46
  and uh so, and you know Banister was was former FBI, right,
• 38:51
  so exactly very possible. So I'm going too because like usual, I
• 39:02
  am taking up a lot of time here, but uh so, this is
• 39:09
  an FBI document I wanted to share. And this is interesting because it talks
• 39:15
  about how Jim Garrison on February sixth, nineteen sixty nine, opened his case
• 39:22
  against Clay Shaw with the testimony of five witnesses from Clinton and Jackson. Those
• 39:27
  are the five we told you open the first day. In summary, the
• 39:30
  testimony of the testimony of these men play Clay moyspend six Bobbs. Yes,
• 39:38
  I have been told that once or twice. Yeah, moysen six Bobbers.
• 39:45
  I know Doug will love that one. That is uncle Junior of the Sopranos
• 39:49
  with an epic line. He has many epic lines. But essentially, what
• 39:54
  they did the FBI summarizes the testimony and I'm on the right side of the
• 40:00
  bottom right a little square here the testimony of Edwin McGee. They summarize it
• 40:05
  and then analyze it. And you got to wonder, Okay, it's just
• 40:08
  them protecting their image or just them like doing oppo research on every witness ever.
• 40:16
  And let's see McKee. He told the court. He advised Oswalt,
• 40:22
  if you want a job at East Louisiana State Hospital in Clinton. He should
• 40:24
  see Reeves Morgan, like we mentioned, stated that Oswalt drove an old car
• 40:30
  and a woman was in the front seat. So that's one of those accounts
• 40:35
  where you actually have Oswalt driving a car. One of those people that said
• 40:38
  that was Edwin mcgeee, and in preponderance of evidence developed in our investigation revealed
• 40:45
  Oswalt did not drive an automobile. Okay, no information identifiable bowl with him
• 40:53
  and then talks about when I said McGee Reeves Morgan, Oh no. This
• 41:06
  was the former state representative who Oswald went to his house in late August sixty
• 41:10
  three or early September, told Oswald he would improve his chances to get a
• 41:15
  job if you've read shirt to vote in Clinton w She showed up the next
• 41:17
  day to do and told Oswald he should take a civil service examination. I'm
• 41:24
  gonna skip a lot of this getting in on time. The third witness was
• 41:29
  John Manchester, and he was the town Marshal of Clinton, Louisiana, which
• 41:34
  is pretty much like a cop I actually came across a document from nineteen sixty
• 41:38
  three where he had arrested someone for disturbing the peace and some type of civil
• 41:45
  rights voting protests. And John Manchester was also accused of the FBI of being
• 41:53
  part of the KKK rob and actually his own section of it in a way,
• 42:02
  and of course with him was one of the next witnesses, Henry Old
• 42:07
  Palmer. And Manchester and Henry Palmer were the subjects of the same civil rights
• 42:13
  case investigated by the FBI in August sixty three. That's what I'm referring to.
• 42:17
  The case involved in arrest made by Manchester at the direction of Palmer of
• 42:22
  a civil rights worker who was trying to assist Negroes and registering to vote.
• 42:30
  Okay, so that's interesting, right, So this guy Manchester and Palmer,
• 42:37
  are you involved in some arrest for trying to essentially stop a civil rights worker
• 42:47
  who was trying to assist African Americans registering to vote. But from all accounts,
• 42:53
  that's exactly what he was doing on the day of the Clinton Louisiana voting
• 43:04
  line drive, right, he was assisting and holding like doing security. Right.
• 43:07
  Well, Palmer was literally at the head of the table, the head
• 43:10
  of registrars, assisting black people vote. So not much sense their FBI.
• 43:20
  So I mean maybe they changed stances like a month later. It doesn't make
• 43:25
  sense to me, honestly, how they came up with. They labeled those
• 43:30
  guys, you know, racists, extreme right, you know, having all
• 43:36
  these views. But in the situation we know of that that we're talking about
• 43:40
  today, they were helping African Americans to vote. So all right, I'm
• 43:45
  gonna be quick here. The next is Henry Palmer, and that was Garrison's
• 43:55
  fourth witness, and he was the one that saw him over the course of
• 44:01
  I think five six hours. And the next one was Corey Collins, who
• 44:07
  was part of that core It was actually I think the local leader of Corps
• 44:13
  in Clinton. And this person also described Oswalt, Ferry and Shaw in Clinton.
• 44:22
  So again they're kind of playing the race card when you have people on
• 44:27
  both sides. Here, Corey Collins was African American saying the same thing.
• 44:31
  So one of the other things that is very interesting that I want to end
• 44:38
  on. So this is an interview with Bobby Didon on August fourth, sixty
• 44:46
  seven. So essentially, when Oswald went to Clinton, Louisiana, he went
• 44:52
  there for that day, was told he couldn't register, left in the black
• 44:58
  Cadillac, and allegedly went back to Jackson, maybe on his way back south.
• 45:05
  I don't know, but Lieutenant Prouge and I this is Andrew Sciambra interviewed
• 45:12
  Bobby Didon at the hospital. They're talking about East Louisiana State and they have
• 45:17
  a tape recording of the conversation. Interesting. These are some of the highlights.
• 45:22
  While looking through pictures the people, Miss Didon picked out a picture of
• 45:25
  Lee Harvey Oswalt and said that she felt definite that she had seen him and
• 45:30
  talked to him at the hospital. She said she was working at the clinic
• 45:34
  as a receptionist and Oswald she feels Oswald came and asked her for instructions of
• 45:43
  how to get to the personal office. She feels she told him where it
• 45:46
  was with no further conversation. Miss Deedon then looked at Lieutenant Phrouge and said
• 45:52
  that she also remembers the time that Pruge or Pruge came to the hospital to
• 46:00
  pick up Rose Sharer me Rob around November sixty three, and she also said
• 46:07
  that she remembered that Pruge was with an older person. Fruge acknowledges this to
• 46:13
  be true. Fruge Pruge or whatever. So this cop, this Louisiana State
• 46:19
  trooper was also involved with I read with the one that found Roe Sharemie two
• 46:25
  days before the assassination after she left that mental institution. But this guy is
• 46:31
  running around with Garrison's the interviewing people, which I think is interesting and kind
• 46:39
  of ironic. I don't know, well, I think I think Mumu Andrew
• 46:47
  Chambra was a former cop. I don't know if he was state police or
• 46:53
  if he was New Orleans PD, I can't remember, but they likely knew
• 46:59
  he each other and were friendly. Oh that makes that could make sense a
• 47:02
  lot, sure, Sure, And the last light here. The last three
• 47:07
  people were William Dunn, who was also a member of corps. He backs
• 47:10
  up Cory Collins is whatever the name is. Yeah, Cory used there you
• 47:20
  go a statement. And Maxine Kemp was the other receptionist that Bobby didon,
• 47:25
  who had just read her testimony to the Garrison investigators. Bobby then sent Oswalt
• 47:34
  to Maxine Kemp, who later said that she recovered Oswalt's application there were September
• 47:42
  sixty four, but that it disappeared shortly thereafter. Well imagine that, So
• 47:49
  what are we going to make of all this. I don't know if anyone
• 47:52
  is closer to Like I said, you know, this was supposed to be
• 48:00
  supposed to be Garrison's home run. That's why you start off with your strongest
• 48:05
  witnesses to make an impression on the jury. And for some reason these witnesses
• 48:09
  didn't. And I think that's why he relayed or relied very heavily on Perry
• 48:20
  Russo to pull his ass out of a jam. And you know there may
• 48:28
  have been things said, things done. You know, who knows what the
• 48:31
  real truth is there? Well, Rob, let me ask you hypothetical,
• 48:37
  So say we know that that was clay Shaw with Ferry, with Oswald and
• 48:43
  Clinton and Jackson, does that make them an accessory to conspiracy to murder to
• 48:50
  the president? Which I think Bungold asked, what was the official charge?
• 48:52
  I think it was a conspiracy to murder? Well, if you if he's
• 49:00
  if he in his mind is tying this to the Perry Russo story, then
• 49:05
  yes, Now, hypothetically, if Perry Russo never existed and you didn't have
• 49:13
  that testimony, does it change anything? Well, you still have these two
• 49:21
  guys who shouldn't be anywhere near Lee Harvey Oswald. But are That's what makes
• 49:30
  it weird, That's what makes it suspect. And when you can tie him
• 49:36
  not just there in Jackson and Clinton to Lee Harvey Oswald, but also in
• 49:43
  New Orleans, even going back to Lee Harvey Oswell's ten years, and you
• 49:47
  have David Ferry and Clay Shaw who are arms length tied to the CIA in
• 49:57
  some form or fashion. They have some kind of relationship ship with the CIA.
• 50:00
  They may not be officially CIA, but you know, the truth came
• 50:06
  out about clay Shaw in the seventies. You know that he was a you
• 50:08
  know, a contact agent because he was a traveling businessman, so he was
• 50:15
  feeding him information, you know, and of course anybody in that position,
• 50:22
  you know, maybe you look at trading information as a form of currency at
• 50:28
  some point, you know what I mean, y to head your bets later,
• 50:32
  you know. But again, you know you have Ferry, he was
• 50:37
  also at arms length tied to the CIA, doing these gun running and clandestine
• 50:43
  missions in the Cuba. They have pig stuff, you know. So them
• 50:51
  just being in the proximity of Lee Harvey Oswald at all, whether it's in
• 50:54
  Clinton and Jackson or in New Orleans screams to me of moving around upon on
• 51:02
  a chessboard. You know, somebody's telling them to have Lee Harvey Oswell,
• 51:08
  do this, have him, do that, have him go here, have
• 51:12
  him say this. Hey buddy, it's time to go back to Dallas.
• 51:15
  Hey, you know, if he did this, it looked this way.
• 51:20
  You know, do this, do that. That's what it seems to me.
• 51:24
  You know, because everybody, you know, and I say this the
• 51:27
  main times, everybody always looks to Dallas to try to solve the assassination.
• 51:31
  Well it, you're never gonna this whole thing was born in New Orleans,
• 51:37
  like it or not, Hey, this is where Lee Harvey Oswald was almost
• 51:45
  the entire year of sixty three up until two months before the assassination. So
• 51:52
  like it or not, whatever was going on in New Orleans with the Fair
• 51:59
  Play for Cuba committee with Carlos Brgay, with Guy Banister and Jack Martin and
• 52:04
  David Ferry and Clay Shaw, you can tie all these guys together in some
• 52:08
  form or fashion. It's suspect. And it screams to me of a setup
• 52:17
  of a patsy, which means that there was a plot to murder Kennedy at
• 52:22
  some point whether it be in New Orleans or in Chicago, or in Miami
• 52:28
  or in Dallas, wherever it may be. You know, these guys were
• 52:35
  responsible for making Oswald look one way or another, or steering him to do
• 52:39
  this or that, or you know, seemingly appear to be this kind of
• 52:45
  a person when in reality is this kind of a person. You know,
• 52:50
  Hey, create a fair play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans, give
• 52:54
  yourself an alias, have fictitious members, you know, get in a fight
• 53:00
  with these anti Castro Cubans in the middle of the street. You know,
• 53:07
  make yourself seem more important than what you are going to radio debate, going
• 53:09
  to you know, live TV. Who knows what the real truth is here,
• 53:16
  but yeah, it's it's all suspect Joe for sure. Yes, I
• 53:23
  want to I want to highlight something. First of all, thank you off
• 53:28
  for sixty six. I guess Rangers are up with nothing. Uh And psv
• 53:32
  Odyssey said something really funny. Ah, Joe is a great chowfiller. Yes,
• 53:42
  yeah, worse than six Barbers, but I think that was good for
• 53:46
  the context. And one thing I want to say in terms someone said I
• 53:51
  saw a Judith very Baker comment and I want to mention this, Rob.
• 53:55
  I think Judith very Baker inserted herself as that woman and that McGee McGee said
• 54:04
  he saw Oswald wit, so of course she jumped onto this and Reeves Morgan's
• 54:08
  daughter, I believe, said she saw a woman outside in the car,
• 54:14
  and you know, she of course jumps all over that shocker. And you
• 54:20
  know, there's there's a lot of back and forth contention as to whether the
• 54:23
  barber actually said he saw a woman with her or said he saw a car
• 54:29
  outside and the car left once Oswald left. It's it's a whole mess that.
• 54:35
  You know. You guys can look into yourself and I just want to
• 54:37
  see if there's any other things here before I stopped yapping and you get into
• 54:44
  it. Your uncle Dave has a good comment and pop this up. The
• 54:47
  case has to be worked from the bottom up and not the top down.
• 54:52
  And this comes from a former, uh police investigator, very highly respected one.
• 55:00
  So take that for what it's worth. Like Joe is the bottom,
• 55:07
  he's a power bottom, Dave power body. That's right, very true.
• 55:15
  Uh, great comment by Dave. All Right, so let's get into some
• 55:19
  closing arguments that were given in the Clay Shaw trial, and the first one
• 55:24
  up was done by James Alcock, who conducted a good bit of the questioning
• 55:35
  during the clay Shaw trial. So he starts off, MSUs didon who you
• 55:44
  were talking about from the Jackson State Mental Hospital, right, confirmed the fact
• 55:49
  that Lee Harvey Oswald did eventually go to the East Louisiana State Hospital and ask
• 55:52
  her for directions to the administration building. And the administration building is where the
• 55:58
  personnel office was where a man would attempt to seek employment at East Louisiana State
• 56:04
  Hospital. Missus Kemp testified she saw Lee Harvey Oswald's application in the files of
• 56:08
  the East Louisiana State Hospital and there is something there is something curious about this
• 56:15
  and it's another coincidence. Perhaps she said that the file card had Harvey Lee
• 56:21
  Oswald on it instead of Lee Harvey Oswald. Gentlemen, there is only one
• 56:25
  person in his courtroom during this trial who ever, admitted to calling Lee Harvey
• 56:30
  Oswald Harvey Lee Oswald, and that was the defendant before the bar when he
• 56:36
  gave his interview the night after he was arrested. Now, what has the
• 56:40
  state shown by the presentation of these witnesses from Clinton I think it has demonstrated.
• 56:47
  I think it did demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt at that juncture the defendant
• 56:54
  was a liar, totally unworthy of your belief. And then in fact he
• 57:00
  did know Lee Harvey Oswald, and that, in fact he did know David
• 57:04
  Ferry, Gentlemen, after the evidence from Clinton, Louisiana, the state put
• 57:08
  on the stand certain police officers who had arrested Lee Harvey Oswald, certain evidence
• 57:14
  as to the distribution of Fairplay for Cuba Committee leaflets. You saw these leaflets.
• 57:19
  Marina Oswald testified that she put the stamp on the leaflet. Aj Hydell.
• 57:24
  You've seen the leaflets. The interesting one and the significant one, gentlemen,
• 57:28
  was June sixteenth of nineteen sixty three. Officer Gayo said that he asked
• 57:34
  Lee Harvey Oswald, who was passing the leaflets out, to leave the Domain
• 57:37
  Street wharf. But what's critical here, gentlemen, is the fact that he
• 57:43
  sees some leaflets and they were identical to the ones taken from him on Canal
• 57:46
  Street, the one identified by Marina Oswald on June sixteenth, nineteen sixty three.
• 57:52
  And they were significant for this very reason because the latter part of June
• 57:57
  sixty three, state witness by the name of Vernon Bundy saw the defendant and
• 58:02
  Lee Harvey Oswald on the lake front in this city. And if you will
• 58:07
  recall, he said that he wrapped up his narcotics outfit in leaflets that said
• 58:13
  free Cuba or something of that nature. I showed him the leaflet taken from
• 58:17
  Lee Harvey Oswald earlier that same month, and one of the leafless taken from
• 58:21
  him earlier that same month, and he said it appeared to be the same.
• 58:25
  Now, let's consider the testimony of Vernon Bundy, gentlemen. I want
• 58:30
  to make one thing abundantly clear. I do not apologize for Vernon Bundy or
• 58:34
  any witness that the State Louisiana put on during this case. You take your
• 58:37
  witness, gentlemen, as you find them. It would be fine if we
• 58:40
  had a lot of bank presidents come before you and tell you how they overheard
• 58:45
  the defendant conspire to kill the President of the United States. But you are
• 58:49
  not going to find too many bank presidents according or associating with Lee Harvey Oswald
• 58:53
  and David Ferry and those of his stripe. Vernon Bundy took that state,
• 59:00
  Gentlemen, and we elicited from him at the outset that he was on the
• 59:02
  methadone program designed to help addicts rid themselves of the habit of drug addiction.
• 59:10
  This man told Defense Council and the State from the witness stand that he had
• 59:14
  been shooting narcotics for a long, long, long time. And he took
• 59:21
  his witness stand, gentlemen, and he said that he had gone to the
• 59:24
  lakefront of this city, and that when he was on the sea wall preparing
• 59:29
  his narcotics for injection, a black car pulled up behind him. Now,
• 59:35
  gentlemen, perhaps it's difficult. I know it's difficult for me, and I
• 59:39
  know it must be difficult for you to put yourselves in the frame of mind
• 59:44
  of Vernon Bundy or any drug addict on the seawall. He is concerned with
• 59:49
  only one thing, and that is shooting the narcotics, protecting the narcotics,
• 59:53
  and not letting the police sneak up on him the moment the car pulled up,
• 59:58
  Gentlemen, you can be assured, and you were assured by Vernon Bundy,
• 1:00:01
  that his attention was riveted on that automobile, as it was on the
• 1:00:05
  occupants of that car who left the car and walked along the sea wall.
• 1:00:09
  And his attention was riveted for a good, good reason, and he told
• 1:00:13
  you that reason. He did not want this man to run up on him
• 1:00:17
  all of a sudden before he could jettison or throw his narcotics out into ponture
• 1:00:22
  train late, because without the evidence, the man cannot be charged with possession
• 1:00:25
  of narcotics. And he riveted his attention to that man. He saw another
• 1:00:30
  man walk from the other end of the sea wall, from the other direction.
• 1:00:35
  They met, and he in this courtroom and under oath, positively identified
• 1:00:39
  the defendant, Clay Shaw, as the man that got out of the black
• 1:00:44
  Cadillac. Coincidentally, the defendant was seen in a black Cadillac in Clinton in
• 1:00:50
  late August early September sixty three. He saw him get out of that black
• 1:00:54
  cadillact approach the other man, whom he positively identified as Lee Harvey Osa,
• 1:01:00
  and he appeared to give him a roll of money. That is, the
• 1:01:05
  defendant gave Oswald what appeared to be a roll of money. And when Oswald
• 1:01:08
  put this item, which appeared to be a roll of money, in his
• 1:01:13
  pocket, he dislodged some of those leaflets and the same leaflets that he had
• 1:01:17
  been distributing from the do Main Street wharf earlier that month, maybe a week
• 1:01:22
  or week and a half earlier before this incident. And let us recall,
• 1:01:27
  gentlemen, that Vernon Bundy was seated on top of the wall, or the
• 1:01:30
  top step rather of the sea wall. His position was down, and there
• 1:01:34
  is something that he noticed, something that frankly, might have frightened him a
• 1:01:37
  little bit, as he said, somewhat. It was the strange gait or
• 1:01:40
  apparent limp of this man whom he identified as the defendant before the bar.
• 1:01:47
  Vernon Bundy graphically demonstrated to this court and to this jury while he was on
• 1:01:52
  that witness stand, when he made that defendant walk back to that door and
• 1:01:55
  then walked forward. Is there anyone in this court room or anyone on this
• 1:02:00
  jury that did not notice the particular gait of the defendant. The defendant himself,
• 1:02:06
  on the witness stand, admitted that he had the affliction in nineteen sixty
• 1:02:09
  three as a result of a dislodged disc in his back that he suffered in
• 1:02:17
  a gymnastics exhibition. This was but further corroboration of the testimony of Vernon Bundy
• 1:02:25
  in this case, Again, gentlemen, when the defendant makes the statement under
• 1:02:30
  oath as he did not know Lee Harvey Oswald, he is a proven liar
• 1:02:35
  and unworthy of your belief. That's alcock closing arguments. So he chose to
• 1:02:44
  focus strongly on the Clinton witnesses and the testimony of Vernon Bundy. Now we
• 1:02:52
  moved to Alvin Oser's closing statement. Now in discussing that is the magic bullet,
• 1:03:04
  as to whether or not that particular pellet did the damage to the President
• 1:03:07
  and the governor, I direct your attention to the testimony of doctor Fink,
• 1:03:13
  who testified in court and told the Warrant Commission that, in his opinion,
• 1:03:16
  it was impossible for Commission Exhibit three ninety nine to do all the damage attributed
• 1:03:22
  to it going through his neck and doing the damage to the governor, because
• 1:03:28
  why, gentlemen, there were too many metal fragments in the wrist of the
• 1:03:31
  governor. You heard testimony about the weight of this particular bullet. You heard
• 1:03:37
  testimony from Agent Fraser of the FBI that the jacket of this particular bullet was
• 1:03:42
  intact, and that the jacket is a copper jacket bullet containing lead on the
• 1:03:45
  inside. And as I said, basically intact, he did say a part
• 1:03:52
  of the jacket was removed when he submitted it to spectrographic analysis. Also,
• 1:03:58
  we have testimony in this case from the witness standing in the throat area of
• 1:04:01
  the track through the throat of the president, there was metallic substances. We
• 1:04:05
  also have, gentlemen, in regard to this very important point. We know,
• 1:04:10
  as we set up with the pictures, according to the Zapruder film,
• 1:04:14
  that the President had reacted at frame two two four. We know in the
• 1:04:17
  pictures and from the expert testimony that the governor is reacting at approximately frame two
• 1:04:23
  thirty eight. And of course we know by merely viewing the film and viewing
• 1:04:28
  the photograph of frame three thirteen, that the President was hit the final time
• 1:04:32
  at frame three thirteen. Now you might recall a lot of testimony and a
• 1:04:38
  lot of questions on my part from lateral angles about whether or not the experts
• 1:04:43
  during their reconstructions not only calculated the angles from the sixth floor down, or
• 1:04:47
  the horizontal angle or the vertical angle, rather, but what was the lateral
• 1:04:51
  angle, the right to left angle, which was not calculated by any of
• 1:04:55
  the experts during the reconstruction. Let's take, gentlemen, in regard to frame
• 1:04:59
  two to two five for a moment, and this agent Fraser couldn't see or
• 1:05:02
  understand what I was driving at. But I want to show it to you.
• 1:05:08
  If you take a line and you draw it through frame two twenty four,
• 1:05:13
  demonstrating with green paper over red dots. My point was in asking Fraser,
• 1:05:16
  what was the lateral angle right to left from here to here? Measuring
• 1:05:21
  with string? This angle, gentlemen, that is created between this green line
• 1:05:26
  and this piece of string. Now, as an aside here, folks,
• 1:05:30
  what he is talking about is the angle from the sixth floor window to the
• 1:05:34
  back of President Kennedy sitting in the limousine. Did they calculate that angle?
• 1:05:41
  And was that angle followed through the body of the president and end too the
• 1:05:46
  body of Governor Connolly? It was not, by the way, gentlemen,
• 1:05:55
  if you were called the testimony of doctor Nichols, who told you that the
• 1:05:58
  hypothetical question by mister Alford in describing the wounds of the throat area of the
• 1:06:02
  president, as stated by doctor Fink, one of the pathologists at the autopsy,
• 1:06:09
  that the trajectory threw and that there were no bones broken in the throat
• 1:06:13
  area of the president. Doctor Nichols told you, in order for a projectile
• 1:06:17
  to pass through the area of the human body at this particular location and not
• 1:06:21
  hit bone, that the minimum angle would have to be right to left,
• 1:06:26
  that of twenty eight degrees. Now, referring to frame two twenty four,
• 1:06:30
  let me take a protractor and place it in the area of two twenty four
• 1:06:34
  through the perpendicular line, and view the angle of twenty eight degrees as I
• 1:06:39
  read the protect protractor, the angle of twenty eight degrees from frame two to
• 1:06:43
  two four. Places it here. That's the spot, not the sixth floor
• 1:06:47
  of the school Book Depository building, because you remember, they didn't even attempt
• 1:06:51
  to ascertain what the latter angle is or was the spot on that protractor.
• 1:06:58
  On the basis of doctor Nichol's testimony, it had to be at least twenty
• 1:07:00
  eight degrees, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten through the neck without breaking a bone.
• 1:07:05
  Puts the shot at two twenty four, not from the school Book Depository
• 1:07:09
  sixth floor, but somewhere in this vicinity of the Texas school Book Depository building,
• 1:07:14
  which is not the sixth floor window. Which window, I don't know,
• 1:07:18
  but you recall missus Carolyn Walter's testimony, who was standing in this vicinity
• 1:07:24
  here at the time of the parade was coming. She looked up to the
• 1:07:28
  Texas school Book Depository and saw two men in a window and one with a
• 1:07:31
  gun. Two men in a window, one with a gun. Now,
• 1:07:36
  considering the fact, gentlemen, that in speaking of the eighteen point three frames
• 1:07:40
  per second and whether or not a single bullet could have done all the damage,
• 1:07:44
  we have shown to you that between the frames two two four and two
• 1:07:47
  three eight there must be the passing of three quarters of a second. We
• 1:07:51
  have shown you testimony of the expert that if Connolly was hit with the same
• 1:07:58
  bullet, it had to happen in seven five, seven hundred and sixtieth of
• 1:08:01
  a second. And furthermore that according to the expert testimony, that that bullet
• 1:08:08
  could not have possibly gone through the human body and the minimum mangle other than
• 1:08:12
  twenty eight degrees if they had calculated the lateral angle that I was talking about.
• 1:08:15
  But they didn't seem to understand what I meant, that is where the
• 1:08:18
  twenty eight degrees falls. Because if you were called doctor Fink, the pathologist
• 1:08:25
  of the autopsy said that there were no broken bones in the President's throat.
• 1:08:30
  So I believe, gentlemen, the state has proven, to your satisfaction and
• 1:08:32
  beyond any reasonable doubt, that not only could the gun that Fraser test did
• 1:08:36
  not have fired in the time span using this Pruter film as the clock to
• 1:08:41
  get off two shots. Likewise, the same bullet certainly could not have hit
• 1:08:45
  the President of the United States and Governor Connolly. And if that didn't happen,
• 1:08:49
  folks, what do we have now? Now we have two people and
• 1:08:54
  two guns. Now, let's turn for a moment to the headshot of the
• 1:08:58
  president. But before we do, touching upon one point as to whether or
• 1:09:02
  not the governor and the President could have been hit by the same bullet.
• 1:09:06
  In order for a bullet to go through the President's neck of twenty eight degrees,
• 1:09:11
  which is the minimum angle possible if it didn't break any bones, in
• 1:09:15
  order for the same bullet to hit the governor in the armpit, that bullet
• 1:09:17
  is traveling on the track of twenty eight degrees from this area here, which
• 1:09:21
  is not the sixth floor window on this particular corner of the school book depository
• 1:09:27
  that in the opinion of doctor Nichols, the Governor, after he viewed the
• 1:09:30
  film and studied the photographs would have had to have been at least eighteen inches
• 1:09:34
  to the left of where he was sitting. Nowhere in any of these photographs
• 1:09:39
  two two four two three zero two three eight is the Governor eighteen inches to
• 1:09:43
  his left, which would make it possible for the same bullet then to enter
• 1:09:46
  his particular back and do the damage that it did. Let's look at the
• 1:09:50
  third result, that of the wound in the President's head. I believe you
• 1:09:54
  will recall, gentlemen, from seeing the suppruder film, the reaction of the
• 1:09:58
  President in that particular film of him going back and to the left as he
• 1:10:02
  sat in the car around frame three thirteen and thereafter. Now, Joe the
• 1:10:12
  juror, are you awake yet? Are you? Are you following what I'm
• 1:10:15
  saying, Joe the Juror? Or are you fucking lost? I mean,
• 1:10:24
  I don't know what Alvin Oser was doing there, but I think he lost
• 1:10:30
  a lot of the jurors with his angle speak and seven tenths of a second
• 1:10:36
  of this and that and the other. They did a much better job in
• 1:10:40
  the movie. JFK. When Kevin Costner was up there going just watch it
• 1:10:45
  back into the left, back into the left, back into the left,
• 1:10:50
  you know, yeah, whoo, yeah, it does get really really complicated
• 1:10:59
  when he started getting into angles of the right. What's interesting to me is
• 1:11:05
  these final arguments, these closing arguments to the clay shawtrial, focus on the
• 1:11:12
  Clinton witnesses, the Jackson witnesses, the ballistics, the testimony of one of
• 1:11:19
  the pathologists, the impossible angles of the magic bullet moving in mid air over
• 1:11:28
  eighteen inches in the back into the left thing. I get it. I'm
• 1:11:31
  sure it was impressive, not as quite as impressive as the one in the
• 1:11:36
  movie. The scene, and it probably did lose some of the jurors.
• 1:11:44
  Their eyes probably glazed over at some point, were like, what the hell
• 1:11:46
  is this guy talking about? You know, yeah, Sally's glazed over.
• 1:11:53
  Yeah. No, And that's why I wanted to read it to you so
• 1:11:58
  you get an understanding of why Jim Garrison lost this trial. You know,
• 1:12:08
  like I said before, it depends. It really depends a lot on how
• 1:12:12
  you present your case to the jury. And you can't just roll in there
• 1:12:17
  and not break it down like you're speaking to a seven year old child for
• 1:12:23
  people to start understanding this stuff when you know you can't be sitting there breaking
• 1:12:27
  out string and protractors and talking about angles and this, that and the other.
• 1:12:33
  You know it's you're going to lose the jury. And I think that's
• 1:12:39
  partly what happened, which brings us to the closing arguments of mister Gas and
• 1:12:46
  Joe. All right, mister, why don't you go cloth? All right?
• 1:12:53
  Now? Do I understand, mister Gason that you wish you address the
• 1:12:59
  jury? Oh? Yes, you may proceed, sir, May it please
• 1:13:05
  the court gentlemen of the jury. I'm not going to dignify mister Diamond's personal
• 1:13:11
  interferences about my staff, because I think you have seen them for some days
• 1:13:15
  and I think you have seen me here. And I will leave it to
• 1:13:19
  your judgment whether or not we would take advantage of any human being in order
• 1:13:25
  to try and get gain of any sort. And I will address myself to
• 1:13:30
  the remaining issue of the case, which have been posted by mister Diamond.
• 1:13:34
  Now, I know you are very tired, and you have been very patient,
• 1:13:38
  and this final day has been a long day. So I will speak
• 1:13:42
  only a few minutes and I will probably make one of the shortest closing arguments
• 1:13:46
  that has been made in this court, because I think most of the issues
• 1:13:50
  are clear to you, and I feel that you probably have an understanding of
• 1:13:54
  this case by now. But mister Diamond has posed in his last argument in
• 1:14:00
  one final issue, which in a sense raises a question of what we do
• 1:14:04
  when the need for justice is confronted by power. So let me talk to
• 1:14:11
  you about whether there is a government fraud in this case. Now, a
• 1:14:15
  government is a great deal like a human being. It is not necessarily all
• 1:14:19
  good, and it is not necessarily all bad. We live in a good
• 1:14:26
  country and I love it, and you do too. But we have nevertheless
• 1:14:30
  a government which is not perfect. And there have been indications since November twenty
• 1:14:35
  second, nineteen sixty three, and that was not the last indication that there
• 1:14:41
  is excessive power in some areas of our government, and that the people have
• 1:14:46
  not received all of the truth about some of the things that have happened,
• 1:14:50
  some of the assassinations that have occurred, and particularly with regard to the assassination
• 1:14:56
  of John Kennedy, going back to when we were children, and I think
• 1:15:00
  most of us, probably all of us here in the court room felt that
• 1:15:03
  justice came into being automatically, that virtue was its own reward, and good
• 1:15:10
  would triumph over evil, that it occurred automatically, And later when we found
• 1:15:16
  that it wasn't quite so, most of us felt that hopefully that at least
• 1:15:21
  justice occurred frequently of its own accord. But now I think that almost all
• 1:15:27
  of us would have to agree that there is really no automatic machinery, not
• 1:15:33
  on this earth at least, which causes justice to happen automatically. Men have
• 1:15:41
  to make it occur, Women have to make it occur. Individual human beings
• 1:15:45
  have to make it occur. Otherwise it doesn't come into existence at all.
• 1:15:50
  And this is not always easy. As a matter of fact, it is
• 1:15:55
  always hard because justice presents a threat to power, and in order to make
• 1:16:00
  justice come into being, you often have to fight power. Mister Diamond raised
• 1:16:06
  a question, why don't we say it's a fraud and charge the government with
• 1:16:11
  fraud. If this is the case, well, then let me be explicit
• 1:16:15
  and make myself very clear on this point. The government's handling of this investigation
• 1:16:20
  of John Kennedy's murder was a fraud ever perpetrated. Yeah, it was the
• 1:16:28
  greatest fraud in the history of our country. It was probably the greatest fraud
• 1:16:32
  ever perpetrated in the history of humankind. So that is where I stand on
• 1:16:38
  the point. But that doesn't mean we have to accept the continued existence of
• 1:16:42
  the kind of government which allows this to happen. We can do something about
• 1:16:46
  it. We are not forced to either leave this country or accept the authoritarianism
• 1:16:53
  that is developed. Which tells us that in the year twenty thirty nine we
• 1:16:57
  can see the evidence finally about what happened to John Kennedy. The government does
• 1:17:03
  not consist only of secret police and domestic espionage operations in generals and admirals,
• 1:17:09
  and the government consists of the people. The government consists of people, and
• 1:17:15
  our government consists of jurys. In cases of murder, whether or the poorest
• 1:17:20
  individual or the most distinguished citizen in the land should be looked at openly in
• 1:17:26
  a court of law where jurors can pass on them, and not hidden,
• 1:17:31
  not buried like the body of the victim beneath the concrete. No. No.
• 1:17:38
  For seventy five years now, you men, in recent weeks have heard
• 1:17:43
  witnesses that no one else in the world has heard. And you've seen what
• 1:17:46
  happened to your president. And I suggest to you that most of you know
• 1:17:50
  right now that in the area that at least a fraud has been perpetrated.
• 1:17:57
  That does not mean that our government is entirely and I want to emphasize that
• 1:18:01
  it doesn't mean that the president is bad. It doesn't mean the Supreme Court
• 1:18:06
  is bad. It does mean that in recent years, through the development of
• 1:18:12
  excessive power because of the Cold War, forces have developed in our government over
• 1:18:18
  which there is no control, and these forces have an of authority, yeah,
• 1:18:30
  authoritarian approach to justice, meaning they will let you know what justice is.
• 1:18:39
  Well, my reply to them is, we already know what it is.
• 1:18:42
  It's the jury system. And in the issue which is posed by the
• 1:18:45
  government's conduct and concealing the evidence of the case and the issue of humanity has
• 1:18:50
  posed to power. I have chosen humanity and I will do it without any
• 1:18:56
  hesitation, and I hope every one of you will do the same. And
• 1:19:00
  I do that because I love my country and I want to communicate to the
• 1:19:02
  government that we will not accept unexplained assassinations with the casual information that if we
• 1:19:10
  live seventy five years longer, we may be given more data. In this
• 1:19:15
  particular case, our efforts to look into it, and it was our duty
• 1:19:18
  when we found out that part of the assassination planning occurred in New Orleans,
• 1:19:25
  in my city. Massive power was brought to bear to prevent justice from ever
• 1:19:30
  coming into the courtroom as it has. I can assure you the power to
• 1:19:35
  make authoritative pronouncements, the power to manipulate the news media by the release of
• 1:19:44
  false information, the power to interfere with an honest inquiry, the power to
• 1:19:49
  provide an endless variety of experts to testify in behalf of power was demonstrated in
• 1:19:56
  this case. The American people have yet to see the suprudi film. Why
• 1:20:02
  the American people deserve to see the Zuprudier film, and if they did,
• 1:20:10
  our government we have a problem in which too much emphasis is given to secrecy
• 1:20:15
  with regard to the assassination of a president, and not enough emphasis has been
• 1:20:19
  given to the question of justice, to the question of humanity. These dignified
• 1:20:26
  deceptions will not suffice. We have had enough of power without truth. We
• 1:20:30
  don't have to accept power without truth or leave the country. I don't accept
• 1:20:35
  that alternative. I don't intend to leave the country. I don't intend to
• 1:20:39
  accept power without truth. I intend to fight for the truth. And I
• 1:20:44
  suggest that not only is this not un American, but it is the most
• 1:20:46
  American thing that we can do, because if truth does not endure, then
• 1:20:50
  our country won't endure, not in the way it was supposed to. In
• 1:20:55
  our country, the worst of all crimes is when the government murders truth.
• 1:21:00
  If it can murder truth, it can murder freedom. If it can murder
• 1:21:03
  freedom, it can murder your own sons, if they should dare to fight
• 1:21:08
  for that freedom, and then announced that they were killed in an industrial accident,
• 1:21:12
  or shot by the enemy, or god knows what. But in this
• 1:21:17
  case, finally, it has been possible to bring the truth about the assassination
• 1:21:21
  into a court of law for the first time ever, not before a commission
• 1:21:26
  composed of important and powerful politically as student men, but before a jury of
• 1:21:30
  citizens of this wonderful country. Now, I suggest to you that yours is
• 1:21:35
  a hard duty, because in a sense, what you're passing on is equivalent
• 1:21:40
  to a murder case. It has the same essential characteristics. And the difficult
• 1:21:45
  thing about passing on a murder case is that the victim is out of your
• 1:21:47
  sight and buried a long way away, and all you can see is the
• 1:21:53
  defendant. And it is very difficult to identify with someone you can't see.
• 1:21:58
  And sometimes it's hard not to identify with some extent with the defendant and his
• 1:22:02
  problems. In that regard, every prosecutor who is at all humane is conscious
• 1:22:09
  of feeling sorry for the defendant in every case he prosecutes. But he is
• 1:22:14
  not free to forget the victim who he buries out of sight. And I
• 1:22:18
  suggest to you that if you do your duty, you are also not free
• 1:22:24
  to forget the victims who is buried out of sight. You know, Tennyson
• 1:22:29
  once said that authority forgets the dying king. This was never more true than
• 1:22:35
  in the murder of Kennedy. In a sense, you have seen in this
• 1:22:42
  court room indications of the interests of some part of the government power structure and
• 1:22:46
  keeping the truth down and keeping the grave closed. We presented a number of
• 1:22:53
  eyewitnesses as well as expert witnesses, as well as the Pruder film to show
• 1:22:58
  that the fatal wound of the president came from the front. A plane landed
• 1:23:02
  from Washington and outsteps doctor Fink for the defense to counter the clear and apparent
• 1:23:09
  evidence of a shot from the front. I don't have to go into doctor
• 1:23:12
  Fink's testimony in detail for you to see that it simply did not correspond with
• 1:23:16
  the facts. He admitted that he did not complete the autopsy because a general
• 1:23:21
  told him not to complete the autopsy. Now, in this conflict between power
• 1:23:27
  and justice, to put it that way, just where do you think doctor
• 1:23:30
  Fink stands. A general who was not a pathologist told him not to complete
• 1:23:34
  the autopsy, so he didn't. This is the way I don't want my
• 1:23:39
  country to be. When our president's killed. He deserves the kind of autopsy
• 1:23:44
  that the ordinary citizen gets every day in the state of Louisiana or the state
• 1:23:48
  of Texas. We can't have government power suddenly interjecting itself from preventing the truth
• 1:23:54
  from coming to the people. But in this case, before the next morning,
• 1:23:59
  when the sun rose, power had moved into the situation and the truth
• 1:24:02
  was being concealed, and five years later in this courtroom, it is continuing
• 1:24:09
  in the same way. We presented eye witnesses who told you the shots were
• 1:24:14
  coming from the grass. You know, a plane landed from Washington and out
• 1:24:17
  came a ballistic gasper Fraser for the defense. Ooh, objection, your honor,
• 1:24:26
  mister Diamond says, object to this, if the court pleased. Mister
• 1:24:30
  Fraser was subpoened here as a state witness judge. He testified for the defense.
• 1:24:36
  He was called by the defense, mister Diamond, Yeah, but he
• 1:24:42
  was subpoened here from Washington as a state witness judge. It makes no difference
• 1:24:47
  who subpoended him. It is who put him on the stand, mister Diamond.
• 1:24:53
  We didn't have anything to do with his coming here on a plane from
• 1:24:56
  Washington Garrison back to garrison. He got interrupted there a little bit. Now,
• 1:25:03
  the issue, I'm sure every one of you understands is whether or not
• 1:25:06
  the government has created a fraud. And I call your attention to mister Fraser's
• 1:25:11
  explanation of the sound of shots coming from the front, which was heard by
• 1:25:15
  eyewitnesses after eyewitnesses and after eyewitnesses. His explanation is that Lee Oswald created a
• 1:25:21
  sonic boom in his firing that echoed around the plaza. Not only did Oswald
• 1:25:29
  break all of the world's records from Marksman's ship, but he broke the sound
• 1:25:31
  barrier as well. And I suggest to you that if any of you have
• 1:25:35
  a shot on a firing range, and most of you probably have in the
• 1:25:40
  service, you were shooting rifles in which the bullet traveled faster than the speed
• 1:25:44
  of sound. And I ask you to recall that if you ever heard a
• 1:25:48
  sonic boom, if you remember when you were on the firing line and they
• 1:25:53
  would say ready on the lifts, ready on the right, Ready on the
• 1:25:57
  firing line, and commence firing, you heard the shots coming from the firing
• 1:26:00
  line to the left of you and to the right of you, and you
• 1:26:02
  had heard, And if you had heard as a result of Fraser's fictional sonic
• 1:26:08
  booms firing coming at you from the pits, you would have had a reaction,
• 1:26:13
  and you would still remember it. It simply does not exist. It
• 1:26:16
  is part of the fraud, part of the government fraud. And the best
• 1:26:19
  way to make this country the kind of country it was supposed to be is
• 1:26:25
  to communicate that the government that, no matter how powerful it may be,
• 1:26:29
  we do not accept fraud. We do not accept false announcements, and we
• 1:26:33
  do not accept the concealment of evidence. With regard to the murder of President
• 1:26:38
  Kennedy, who's the most believable Richard Randolph Carr seated here in his wheelchair and
• 1:26:45
  telling you what he saw and what he heard, and how he was told
• 1:26:49
  to shut his mouth, or mister Fraser with his sonic booms. Do we
• 1:26:56
  have to actually reject mister Newman and missus Newman, and mister Carr and Roger
• 1:27:00
  Craig and all the testimony of all these honest witnesses. Reject that and accept
• 1:27:04
  that the fraudulent and warrant commission conclusions, or else leave the country if we
• 1:27:09
  don't like it. I suggest to you that there are other alternatives. All
• 1:27:15
  we have to in this case are the facts. Facts would show that the
• 1:27:17
  defendant participated in a conspiracy to kill the president and that the president was subsequently
• 1:27:23
  killed in an ambush. The reply of the defense has been the same as
• 1:27:28
  the earlier reply of the government and the Warren Commission has been authority, authority.
• 1:27:33
  The President's seal outside of the volume each volume of the Warren Commission made
• 1:27:39
  necessary because there is nothing inside of these volumes. Men of high position and
• 1:27:44
  prestige sitting on the board and announcing the results to you and not telling you
• 1:27:47
  what the evidence is, because it has to be hidden for seventy five years.
• 1:27:53
  You heard in this court room in recent weeks, eyewitness after eyewitness eyewitness,
• 1:28:00
  an eyewitness which was indifferent to power or influence, and that eyewitness was
• 1:28:04
  as a Pruder film. The lens of the camera is indifferent to power,
• 1:28:09
  and it tells you what happened. And that is the one reason two hundred
• 1:28:13
  million Americans have not seen as a pruder film. They should have seen it
• 1:28:17
  many times. They should know exactly what happened. They should know what you
• 1:28:20
  know now. They should have seen what you have seen. Why hasn't this
• 1:28:26
  come into being if there hasn't been government fraud? Of course there has,
• 1:28:31
  But I'm telling you that I think we can do something about it. I
• 1:28:33
  think there are still enough Americans left in this country to make it continue to
• 1:28:38
  beat America. I think we can still fight authoritarianism, the government's insistence on
• 1:28:45
  secrecy, the government force used in counterattacks against an honest inquiry. And when
• 1:28:49
  we do that, we are not being an American. We are being American
• 1:28:57
  because it isn't easy, and you are sticking your neck out in a rather
• 1:29:00
  prominent way. But it has to be done because the truth does not come
• 1:29:04
  into being automatically. Justice does not happen automatically. Individual men like the members
• 1:29:11
  of my staff here have to work and fight to make it happen. And
• 1:29:15
  individual visual men like you have to make justice come into being, because otherwise
• 1:29:19
  it doesn't happen. And what I'm trying to tell you is that there are
• 1:29:24
  forces in America today, unfortunately, which are not in favor of telling the
• 1:29:29
  truths coming out about John Kennedy's assassination. And as long as our government continues
• 1:29:33
  to be like that, as long as such forces can get away with these
• 1:29:38
  kinds of actions, then this is no longer the country in which we were
• 1:29:43
  born. The murder of John Kennedy was probably the most terrible moment in the
• 1:29:46
  history of our country. Yet circumstances have placed you in the position where not
• 1:29:53
  only have you seen the hidden evidence, but you are actually going to have
• 1:29:58
  the opportunity to bring justice this into the picture for the first time. Now
• 1:30:02
  you're sitting here in judgment of Clay Shaw, but you, as men,
• 1:30:08
  represent more than jurors in an ordinary case, because of the victim. In
• 1:30:12
  this case, you represent, in a sense, the hope of humanity against
• 1:30:16
  government power. You represent humanity which yet may triumph over excessive government power if
• 1:30:24
  you will cause it to be so in the course of doing your duty.
• 1:30:27
  In this case, I suggest that you ask not what your country can do
• 1:30:32
  for you, but what you can do for your country. What can you
• 1:30:38
  do for your country? You can cause justice to happen for the first time
• 1:30:42
  in this matter. You can help make our country better by showing that this
• 1:30:45
  is still a government of the people. And if you do that, as
• 1:30:49
  long as you live, nothing will ever be more important than that. Thank
• 1:30:57
  you, James Garrison. And yes, yes, not my finest performance,
• 1:31:05
  but he lied. At the beginning of that, Joe, he lied.
• 1:31:09
  He said that was gonna be the shortest closing arguments ever seen in the courtroom,
• 1:31:14
  and by god, it was the longest. But we'll let it slide
• 1:31:17
  this time. Yeah, But I just wanted to give everybody a sense of
• 1:31:21
  what it was like to be in that courtroom during these closing arguments of the
• 1:31:26
  clay Shaw trial, what these jurors had to actually hear being said. And
• 1:31:31
  get out of your head that picture that the damn JFK movie has stuck in
• 1:31:36
  there because you think that's how it went down, right, But this is
• 1:31:42
  reality and guess who wasn't mentioned, not one time, well one time in
• 1:31:48
  all three closing arguments, Perry Russo, All three of these prizecutors chose to
• 1:31:55
  focus on different sections of the care against clay Shaw. Yeah, you know.
• 1:32:03
  Uh, and even the magic bullet, it's not even directly related to
• 1:32:10
  to clay Shaw, right right, you know. He They're just trying to
• 1:32:13
  paint a picture that we don't know the whole truth and that the government is
• 1:32:19
  hiding the truth. I mean, could you imagine sitting in the in this
• 1:32:24
  courtroom and watching the the Pruder film for the first time. I mean,
• 1:32:30
  that's got to make an impression on you. You know, it's like,
• 1:32:32
  holy crap. That looked like a shot from the front, you know what
• 1:32:36
  I mean. I mean that's what I thought the first time I saw it,
• 1:32:40
  Like, holy crap, holy crap. Yeah. No, it's for
• 1:32:46
  sure. And we have some I'm gonna yeah, excessive power in the government.
• 1:32:53
  You don't say, uh, And I think tiny Danser said one hundred
• 1:33:00
  and twelve Military intelligence off service calling a TSBD. That was Powell, right,
• 1:33:06
  yes, Uh, And you gotta go, Rob go. They will
• 1:33:14
  keep bungled a great comment. They will keep Ruth on life support until twenty
• 1:33:18
  fifty. I think they might think he implies that if she's alive, like
• 1:33:24
  want to be looking like a crypt keeper. Wow, Jojo, I forgot
• 1:33:30
  to show you, yeah my T shirt? Stand up? Sir? Do
• 1:33:36
  you know who that is? No? Come on, man, friend of
• 1:33:45
  the show, fellow podcaster, I can't see what the glasses. You gotta
• 1:33:53
  give me a head here out of the blank? Oh is that Robbie.
• 1:33:57
  It's our buddy, Robbie. Yeah, what's myself? Some merch? He
• 1:34:01
  has a goate? Yeah sometimes oh sometimes he's baby smooth, but sometimes he's
• 1:34:10
  not that that that threw me off, But I love that, you know,
• 1:34:15
  out of the blank a lot. Yes, shout out to Robbie over
• 1:34:20
  and out of the blank. He does a great job. He kills it.
• 1:34:25
  He's our buddy. Thank you. Paul and Diana. Uh, bungled
• 1:34:31
  you would have won the jury, bbb. Yeah, I mean Scrooge and
• 1:34:36
  Garson put big bad Bob in the in the courtroom, you know, right,
• 1:34:41
  And even Sally was like you started getting everyone in the chat feeling all
• 1:34:45
  patriotic. See, and Trey was standing in his living room hand over heart,
• 1:34:51
  respect and uh Uh. Yeah, although that that I found another word
• 1:35:03
  I can't say, Joe authoritarianism. Yeah, that was a rough one.
• 1:35:14
  It was in there three times on me. You mean like this you who
• 1:35:17
  was a complete maniac. By the way, it ends up being a scientologist
• 1:35:23
  ufo ologist. He gets him in bed with a liberty lobbedy. Yes,
• 1:35:28
  the liberty lobbity. I still can't believe that one. Uh. And let's
• 1:35:36
  see what else? Is that a tank top? Bob? No, it
• 1:35:42
  is a T shirt. Ah No, it is definitely not a tank top.
• 1:35:49
  Ah. You mean on Robbie no wearing exactly Priory wasn't off as far
• 1:35:58
  as I'm concerned. Yeah, I don't disagree with that, and especially oh
• 1:36:12
  Robbie love that. Yeah, and that's that's a good Uh, that's good
• 1:36:16
  because you know, you talked about controlled opposition on the last hits in terms
• 1:36:24
  of very young Lauren Hall. Oh. Ohb Cooper. It could be dB,
• 1:36:34
  it could be I mean dB, I think a little bit more of
• 1:36:38
  a bold head or receding hairline. But I respect that. And people thought
• 1:36:47
  we had a couple of people think it was Lauren Hall. So it's not
• 1:36:50
  on me that I didn't get it right. Away. But that is some
• 1:36:53
  cool merch for sure. And yes, you have to say that in the
• 1:37:04
  Vanilla Ice lingo, I don't know if I had the vanilla ice accent down.
• 1:37:11
  What is a hell? If I know, Mike busting my balls,
• 1:37:17
  it's it's close to an anima but opposite. Yeah yeah, something like that.
• 1:37:27
  Yeah yeah. And so one more thing I forgot to read, Rob,
• 1:37:34
  just going back to the Clinton thing, was that the HSCA in nineteen
• 1:37:40
  seventy nine and their final report, the committee got more than six bobbers.
• 1:37:47
  This is gonna be a quick one that they were inclined to believe that Oswalt
• 1:37:54
  was in Clinton in the company of David Ferry and if not, Clay Shaw
• 1:38:00
  and some of the people are. The person that wrote this article, which
• 1:38:05
  is kind of pooh pooing on the Clinton witnesses, was wondering if Robert Blakey
• 1:38:11
  needed a Carlos Marcelo associate a Ferry as the mob connection to Oswald for his
• 1:38:17
  personal theory that the mafia killed Kennedy. And that's kind of interesting. It's
• 1:38:26
  it's some poo pooing, and I think we do know that, Gee,
• 1:38:30
  Robert Blakelee was on the mafia angle, and you know that could have been
• 1:38:36
  a reason why they accepted it as truth, at least from the hsca's findings,
• 1:38:45
  which you know, of course, did probably conclude that JFK was probably
• 1:38:53
  killed as a result of a conspiracy. But you know, they're kind of
• 1:38:57
  sidestepping as usual. But they did say it was most likely that the Clinton
• 1:39:02
  and Jackson witnesses were were truthful. And you know you have you have over
• 1:39:09
  a dozen of them, and that testified in the Garrison Grand Journey. So
• 1:39:15
  it's a lot of effort to get all those people lying on the same page
• 1:39:18
  or someone on the same page, right, Yep, just didn't work out
• 1:39:26
  for old old gym. Just didn't work out. You imagine if they'd have
• 1:39:31
  found Clay Shall guilty, what the hell would have happened. I don't know,
• 1:39:38
  that's that's interesting. I've never thought about what would have happened. I
• 1:39:41
  mean, obviously he would have gone to jail, and he would have appealed.
• 1:39:44
  He probably would have got out on appeal, I think, but that
• 1:39:48
  would have been a lot of drama for sure, and would have reverberated throughout.
• 1:39:58
  I plead, I plead, oh God, plea guilty the second degree
• 1:40:01
  may slaughter and you gotta wonder. And by the way, thank you so
• 1:40:05
  much Trey for a filer supersticker. If I missed any before, I was
• 1:40:12
  uh yapping like six barbers, so I didn't hear it. Joe tweak my
• 1:40:17
  nipples please, Oh Sean, mister Gaston, which nipple do you want to
• 1:40:21
  be tweaked? I couldn't find a bigger, big enough version of the nipple
• 1:40:28
  tweak of this scene from JFK. But it's it's epic. M hm,
• 1:40:31
  it's really good. And but what I was going to end on is so
• 1:40:34
  to your point, say clay Shaw was found guilty, does the HSCA happen
• 1:40:41
  almost? Uh what seven is? Eight years later? They're ruling about a
• 1:40:45
  decade later? Probably right, because it wasn't just Kennedy right. And the
• 1:40:56
  interesting because if he would have actually won that case, he probably probably would
• 1:41:00
  have released the Zapruder film at that point or got it to be released in
• 1:41:05
  its entirety to show the world what you know, consecrated clay Shaw's fate,
• 1:41:16
  and it might have happened a lot earlier than it, did you know?
• 1:41:21
  Oh? Interesting? Yeah, possible postibla, Yes, a very interesting to
• 1:41:28
  ponder I didn't capeche and yes, a tiny answer to try to make up
• 1:41:34
  any ground I lost within the Italian American community. You know, I'm doing
• 1:41:40
  a lot of things sometimes here and the capiche came out of right field,
• 1:41:44
  and I was like, what is that hard work to look at? And
• 1:41:48
  you don't see that word real? But mister Robb, close it out.
• 1:41:55
  Yes, find folks. I know that if we're not already there yet,
• 1:41:59
  we will be kicking on sixteen hundred subscribers. So thank you, thank you,
• 1:42:05
  thank you. It seems like we were just saying we were fifteen hundred
• 1:42:09
  like yesterday. So if you haven't already and you check the show out and
• 1:42:14
  you like what you saw, there's another two hundred and ninety episodes. If
• 1:42:19
  you just go click on the playlist for the Long Gum And podcast, there's
• 1:42:24
  a lot more episodes to go through. Make sure you're liking the episodes,
• 1:42:28
  you're subscribed to the channel, and you hit that little bell so you get
• 1:42:31
  notified when we go live or drop a new episode just for you. But
• 1:42:38
  for now, for this week, that's it. That's it, and there
• 1:42:45
  may possibly Uncle Dave be a quick hits coming this weekend too, so be
• 1:42:50
  on the lookout. Yeah that's right, Joe Peace, have a good weekend,
• 1:43:04
  go rap and tweak your nipples. M