Latest / Beheaded / How to Win Friends Then Guillotine People | Maximilien Robespierre (Part 1)

Transcript

How to Win Friends Then Guillotine People | Maximilien Robespierre (Part 1) · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season seven, episode 13, part one.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: We made it to the season finale.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: It's the middle of frickin' summer, and we're here.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: This is the first time on Beheaded History that we made it through Elizabeth's birthday.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Which is the day after King Henry VIII's birthday.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: So if you know, you know.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: If you know, you know.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, usually we're just on social media a bit in the summer.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: We don't actually have live episodes.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Heavy eye roll from me.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: I know we're slow on it.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not your fault at all.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just been our crazy year.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Like it's like it felt like we were really on track.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: I really felt like we were good the first half of the season and then we just got derailed.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Happy belated birthday.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
0:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh well, Megan, I'm gonna tell you.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Um so I I always like stay in town during my birthday, mostly because we have a lot of travel plans in the summer and crap.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: So I always want my birthday itself to be a little low-key, but I like to kind of do something a little different and out of town.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we went up to, if you know, Arizona area.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: We went to Cottonwood and Jerome.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Jerome.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Jerome is fun.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: I've never been, but I've heard good things.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: It looks it's always been like such a cute, enticing place to go because it's known as a very haunted kind of ghost town in Arizona.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Um people talk about the haunted hotel that's there that was built, gosh, I want to say the 1800s.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Arizona's not that old.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: But um, so if you don't know like the geography and you're kind of, I don't know, if you even if you're not in America, it's like you have Phoenix, which is in the south part of Arizona, and the big cities people know north of Phoenix are Sedona and Flagstaff, which are like the more northern cities, right?
1:58
SPEAKER_01: So if you go on your way to Sedona, but you kind of veer off a little bit more west, you'll run right into Cottonwood, which is actually a wine area.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have wineries there.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: We did this really cute kayak tour that ended at a winery.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: It was called the Water to Wine Tour.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Very cute.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: So, so me and Robbie did like, it was probably like two hours of a little kayak thing, but it was fun.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: And they were blow-up kayaks, so you don't have like a lot of control over them.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've gone kayaking before, and this thing is just all over the freaking place.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: We were literally just spinning.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I hate that.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Going down the river.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Like kayaking for that reason.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: I need to have control of my direction.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: It was like a lazy river, though.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
2:41
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like raging rapids, like and like there was tubers going down too.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: It was very mellow.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: All right.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So we did that, and then it ended at this winery.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: So we did a little like wine tasting where there was live music.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: It was very nice.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Cute.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that same night we went up to Jerome, which is like I've heard of this trek up to Jerome.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like the side of a mountain.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't expect it to be like that.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh yeah, people are babies.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm from Colorado.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: We have mountains, it's not hard to get up there.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: It like, I don't know.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: I think we took a path that you're not supposed to go on.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: Because it was like four-wheel drive, like rocky, jagged road, incline, crazy incline.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: We were like shocked we even made it to the hotel.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't like that either.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: This is way too adventurous of a ver of a birthday for my liking.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And we were in like Robbie's truck.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, we were in like a big, you know, like vehicle that could handle this.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: And we were like, how does anyone in a sedan get up here?
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Can I do it in my Mini Cooper?
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: But we did discover once we got to the top that there's a better road to take.
3:43
SPEAKER_03: That makes sense.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Again, I think we took some weird, obscure back way that maps took us on.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: But um, but we had dinner at the hotel, fabulous.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: We had like these beautiful frosted martinis.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had the special, which was like a filet mignon pasta type thing.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Very tasty.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what he had.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: You were just focused on your own birthday meal.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Big chocolate cake dessert, like fabulous.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then again, we only did like the weekend, so we didn't do a whole lot.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: We took our dog up there too, which was nice.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So he got to explore with us.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then what did what did you do with your dog during dinner?
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, we stayed at a dog-friendly Airbnb.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: So he just hung out.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: The Airbnb we stayed at, it was like, under no circumstance can your dog be in the bed.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: But if he is in the bed, put this blanket down.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: You're like, I my dog wouldn't understand.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: That my dog next to us.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: You can't have a conversation, be like, well, now you have to sleep on the floor like a dog.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: No.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: She'd be like, oh, good.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: He would never.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: As soon as we like, we're like, all right, we're gonna leave, he's like hopped up on the bed.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: We're like, yeah, we can't, like, there's nothing we can do.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Control that.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he chilled on the bed while we On the towel.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: On the towel, don't worry.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Airbnb host.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Didn't touch the actual bed, just on the towel, wink wink.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, they wash the bedding, right?
5:04
SPEAKER_00: You would think he would think a lot.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: He's a shedder.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: You would think they they wash, for sure.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, but um, and then really quick, the next day, uh, before we left town, we went to this lunch spot called Haunted Hamburger, which St.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Jerome.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: The whole haunted thing.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: They really own it.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Jerome's cool.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Jerome, it's like there's only 400 people that live in the town, and they very much lean into the spooky nature of it.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: As they should.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Everything is like skeletons and ghosts, and it's like cutesy.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense for Halloween.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: It's like the the Southwest version of Salem.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Kind of why, why, what happened in Jerome?
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Salem, I get it, because there's so much angst there.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, why is Jerome considered such a haunted ghost town?
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know the real answer, but I'm gonna give you a speculative answer based on being there for one day.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's because like it is at such a high elevation and it's an old mining town.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of people died in the mines or like in the old hotel that was up there because of the steep cliffs and everything.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: So what you experienced.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: I could probably just tourists that are haunting it because they can't get to the damn hotel.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: You're most likely right.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a 2007.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have to shout out this girl who I saw on the kayak tour.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: I think she did the kayak and then she was at the wine, and then she's at the hotel later.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Like we saw her the whole time.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: And I want to say she was our age.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: She had the same itinerary as well.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, I kinda think she's my best friend.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Or is she following you?
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Or is she a fan?
6:41
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say a stalker fan.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is how we started to talk.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: So when we were at the winery and there was live music, they started playing the um the shake, shake, shake, sonara song, you know, didn't it?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: And that's what she said.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So she's telling because we're millennials.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're millennials, and she's telling her friend, she's like, Oh my god, Beetlejuice.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: And her friend's like, what are you talking about?
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And so she was trying to explain to her friend Beetlejuice, and I chimed in because I'm drinking and I'm like, Beetlejuice, you know?
7:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm now talking to these people, and she's like, She gets it, she knows.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: And then she's like, Yeah, my friend here, she's never seen Beetlejuice, she's never seen dirty dancing, like she's never seen all these classic cult movies from like the late 80s, early 90s type of thing.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, Oh yeah, I just showed Robbie like Pretty Woman the other day.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Pretty woman's the best.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: So we were like chatting, and then sure enough, like she's at the hotel later where we're having- And then you just became best friends for the whole trip.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, we didn't talk anymore because she was with all of her girlfriends and she's- you exchange info.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, I like her more because we saw all of her friends, and I was like, Where's your friend?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: My friend that I made at the wine tasting thing.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh, she's taking all the spooky pictures of the hotel right now.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I like her even more.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: So with her.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Wherever that lady is, she in our kindred spirits.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: And maybe one day you'll show up at the same place again.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, fun.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: I know it's it's just like weird that we never talk about our birthdays on this show.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: We do have them.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Because yours is in September before we record.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Before we start recording, yours is always in the middle of summer.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: How about this?
8:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna make a note right now for kickoff of next season.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Special editions.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about your birthday.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Megan's 37th birthday.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: What is Megan's?
8:21
SPEAKER_00: You go, you better do something good.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: 37th.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, right now I'm in a hot, a hot moment because last year my birthday was on, well, it was like a Friday, Saturday this year.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: It's on a Sunday, and then it's gonna be boring next year because it'll be a Monday birthday.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Mine was a Monday birthday.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: So I hated that.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: So I need to celebrate for my Sunday birthday this year.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad you had a good birthday, a good spooky birthday in Jerome.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: And everyone go to Haunted Hamburger if you're in Arizona.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: It's supposedly the best burger in Arizona, and I agree.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: That means a lot.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Any actual ghost encounters?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: No, unless you count the people in the town who were just kind of strange.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: But no.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I have yet to have a ghost encounter at a place where they highly market ghosts.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I like that you say that in a very specific fashion.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Like you've had ghost encounters.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: I've had ghost encounters.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: I've never had any.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Unexpected places, I've had ghost encounters.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Should we save that for next season or you want to give us a story now?
9:21
SPEAKER_00: No, we we have too much to this is season finale night.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: They're not here to listen to ghost stories.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you are actually a safe-off episode during our summer break.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Summer break, ghost stories.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: I do have some ghost stories.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: And they are legit and they are spooky.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: And one of them does involve Abraham Lincoln, but I'll I'll just leave it there.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: That's the only one I know very well of yours.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I definitely met him.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I'm just gonna mysteriously leave it at that.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: But we are not talking about American history.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: We're not.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Even though it's post-Fourth of July.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: If you're on the YouTube, you may notice a theme.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: We decorated.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: We decorated for once.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Megan decorated tonight.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Megan.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, we decorated together.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I supplied and we put it up together.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm also wearing my shirt that says Pardon my French.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And I'm wearing a necklace that looks like uh something from the French Revolution.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: We've got a French episode, which is like no secret.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure at this point people are figured out.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Again, we like to make it like a mystery, but it's not you.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: You saw the episode name, you read a description.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: So if you are a seasoned executionado, then at this point you have figured out that every season we have 13 episodes, but the last episode is two parts.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So 13.1, 13.2.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's always a little bit more of a meteor episode with lots of info because we have two hours to go over it.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Meteor as in more meat on the bone, not like a meteor in the sky.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Just so you know.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I hope that's exactly how they interpreted it.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: People's brains.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I like to over-explain.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Meaty and juicy, the meat and potatoes, as we like to say.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh do you want to introduce Elizabeth?
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we're getting, I feel like I'm jumping into it really fast just because I'm eager.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: We have so much info.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Is there more news we have to share before we Oh well, the only other thing is I did have a note about following up on our previous episode.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: I knew you did.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: About I've been good about this.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Good.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: I've been good about this the last few episodes.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm reviewing.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I write notes to myself for the future now, like your 37th birthday.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: My last note from my past self was about Agrippina's memoirs, right?
11:35
SPEAKER_01: So Agrippina was the woman we discussed, the Roman mother, the last episode.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: We were like, how do we know all this information about her?
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Because it was said that she wrote very detailed memoirs.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to confirm that in fact she did.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yes, she like by all accounts had very detailed memoirs because she was a noble lady of her time.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, however, there is no remaining memoirs in existence.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's more like people had seen them and yes, they like agreed to the fact that they are there.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but they're not in existence.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, so she had them down.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: I know.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, that was 2,000 years ago.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: What can you expect?
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I have to say, really quick too, along that same note, I finally finished my Margaret George Memoirs of Cleopatra book.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Round of applause.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: 957 pages.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And it ends kind of the same way where there's like these notes at the end from the author.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: And I just watched a Netflix documentary on Cleopatra as well.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I'm still left unsatisfied with like what's real and what's fictitious.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: So long ago.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: It's just myth, you know?
12:43
SPEAKER_01: It's like they don't even know if she was actually poisoned by the asps.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, that, you know, apparently like she put her hand in the basket and they released their venom, and that's how she committed suicide.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's still up for debate.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: And I hate that.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: It drives me crazy.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can't you tell me either go back in time or die and meet her and ask?
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Or I could become an archaeologist and she would be an interesting one.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: You know that question, like, who would you have at dinner if you can bring back anyone?
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Thousand percent would be an interesting one.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: They still never found her remains either.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Or Marc Anthony's.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: She and Jerome as a ghost.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
13:21
unknown: Okay.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: So I sorry, not to derail us before we even begin.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: No, that had to be said.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: I prematurely set us up because like there's flags around us, so it was hard to ignore.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: And I just really wanted to get into talking about French things.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: But we did have that follow-up.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Well done.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm proud of you.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I will describe the scene here, or you can just go on YouTube and look.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: We have French flags, we have our French guillotine.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Elizabeth has her French wine.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Kirkland brand, the best.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Classy, classy shit.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: But at 24 Kirkland.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: But it is from France.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: This is, you know, Costco, but it is French Costco.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: So you're welcome.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Costco does have culture for those who want to disagree.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: We will fight you on that.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful bottle.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful bottle.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: And this is all for our man of the evening.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Two-parter drum roll, please.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Maximilien Robespierre.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Robespierre.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Pardon my French.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: There will be lots of French in this episode.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: You were French, so you are gonna take over those parts.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: My French score on Duolingo is now at a 57.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: My pronunciation is getting better all the time.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm relying on you for this, then.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing my best.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Robespierre is someone where it's like before really diving into who he was, he was that name that for me, I always associated obviously with the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Didn't quite understand his role and whose side was he on and what happened.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, we'll obviously get into it, but it gets confusing, and this is an execution story.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: And he's a highly controversial figure.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to go into both of these episodes knowing that.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Like when we talk about Robespierre, we're gonna say a lot of nice things about Robespierre, and we're gonna say a lot of terrible things about Robespierre because he's a very controversial person with a lot of layers.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: He's not a one-dimensional good guy, bad guy.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no one label you can give this man.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: So, what whatever camp you're in, of like if you have a, I don't know, previous prejudice of Robespierre, like keep it to yourself for now.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: We're neither pro or there's a lot.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: We are we are playing neutral here in the story.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: We are Switzerland.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: We are just the storytellers.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: We are Switzerland surrounded by our French.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: We're very French, yeah, pro-French tonight.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: The number of times I've said tonight to the revolution.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: The revolution.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: When uh Elizabeth came over.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I will start with the disclaimer.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I know Les Miserables is not set in the French Revolution.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm not an amateur.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Later.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: But it but it is still relevant, right?
16:13
SPEAKER_00: So as soon as she walks in, she didn't she wasn't prepared for the amount of French flags I had purchased from Amazon, first of all.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: May you save these.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And then I was just blasting the do you hear the people sing?
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And I did a very French dinner.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: We had brie cheese, French brie cheese.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: We had a baguette with French, I mean soup.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: And then we did um steak frites, which Elizabeth heavily helped with because Fantastic.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Steak is difficult to cook.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Worked out okay.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: It was wonderful.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Filet mignon, arugula salad.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: It was beautiful.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Laudejon vinaigrette.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Oui, oui, mon jour.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: We put on a French movie that we will probably never watch if we look at it.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I did not understand because it was in French.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I understand half of it.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, good for you.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, you're gonna start with early life of Mr.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Max.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: I am, I am.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: So for all, you know, I I really every time we've referred to Robespierre in previous episodes, because we've done quite a few French Revolution episodes.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: I've always referred to him as Robespierre.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Because this episode is about Robespierre, we're gonna call him Max.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Max.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Maximilian.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: And Maxi boy.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: I kind of like that better.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's a little more personal.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Again.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Maxie.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: You don't Maxie.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Sorry to sort of goofy in my head.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: You'll always be my son.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Max.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I don't, like I said, want to tell you whether he's good or bad, but I think you're gonna kind of like the guy in this first part.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: In the first part?
17:45
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to not like him when he's coming up as a young lad.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, very idealistic man.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: And again, this all rears its ugly head later, so don't hold it against us.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: But you can't help but like the guy a bit in the first part of this.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna give him some humanity and we're gonna call him Max.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: If we slip into saying Robespierre, you know who he is.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: But for the at least this first part of the episode, we're gonna call him Max.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: So Max was born slash baptized.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: We don't know born or baptized because it's based on church records.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in May 6th, 1758, in Arras Atois, France.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: And he was born to his father, Francois Maximilien Bartheleme de Robespierre, who is a lawyer, kind of small town, local lawyer, nothing big time.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And his mother, Jacqueline Marguerite uh Caravalte, or Caralt, sorry.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: And she was the mere daughter of a brewer.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I also side note, if you're an Ever After fan, love that her name is Jacqueline Marguerite.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I know.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: We could tally the number of times we have referenced Ever After in season seven.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, but I love that.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Um he actually was conceived out of wedlock.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So they probably got married because they needed to have the baby together.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: I have to say, in the in the multiple resources that I was reading up on this, I really think it's funny how some of them were just they let you do the math on the on your own.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: They're like, like he was born four months after his parents were married.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Four months, wink, wink, wink.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, just say that he was he was conceived out of wedlock.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: It's fine, it's no big deal.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: It's fine, it's 2026.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: 2026, get over it.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, oh my god, they had sex before they were married.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Relax.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: She's the daughter of a brewer.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, crazy.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he then, I mean, the parents stayed together, obviously.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they had three other children after him.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: So he became the eldest of four siblings, and the siblings were in order: Charlotte, Henriette, and Augustine.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: However, tragedy strikes as it often does with a lot of our victims at a young age.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jacqueline, his mother, dies when Max is only six years old.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, it's 1764.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: And her death, like noticeably has a lasting impact on Max.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: She was young too.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: She was only 29.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was only 29.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Young for us.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Young for us, really young for us.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, and and Charlotte, Max's sister, he she's the one to kind of record his change in attitude after the mother dies.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: So, what does he do to cope with all of this grief?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: He really throws himself into his studies.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: He became and it's funny, he's only six, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, what studies do you even have when you're six?
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I did the same.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, when I was in a six-year-old in the college um intelligent person.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: But uh he he throws himself into his studies.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: His formal education doesn't start until he's eight at the Eris College.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: College.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm taking French.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, please correct me.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Really?
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Let me help you.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: No.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Um college, at least in French today, means middle school.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: So I'm assuming.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: What?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Really?
21:09
SPEAKER_00: It does.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just that's weird.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Ly C is high school.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Lisa or whatever.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, so college, like it's it's middle school.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: That's con it's like so.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure in this era it means like primary school.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like how supper is dinner.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: That's a perfect example.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Like supper, ahead of themselves a little bit too much.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, correct.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: So so it was just called college, which just meant school, you know, pri probably primary school in this era.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: So when you think, oh, eight-year-old at college, like it's not like university.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: I was impressed when I was reading them like, damn, Max was in college.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: No, Max wasn't actually one to college.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Goofy movie too.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, pause for laughs.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: God, I'm that's a good crack myself up.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, so no, just a regular school, primary school, probably.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but again.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And I always wonder between the ages of six and eight what he was heavily focused on in his studies.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: He probably just had books.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe a tutor, C C Jane Ron type of books.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Definitely threw himself into those studies.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, after his mother dies, it wasn't uh only a few years until his father left.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: So father straight up kind of abandons the family at this point.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Francois.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the father decides to split up the siblings based on where each of them are best suited to be.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: So he puts the girls in one location with family and he puts Augustine and Max into the home of uh their maternal grandparents, so his parents, and he books it like we never hear from the dad again.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So Rob's Pierre, Maxie, he grows up with the, you know, some mommy-daddy issues.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the only thing that really helps him satisfy his, I guess, loneliness, his grief, is again, school.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: So by the time he's a little older, he gets this very great scholarship to a prestigious lycee, which is like a high school.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's called Louis le Grand.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: And Louis le Grand is again a it's a very prominent high school preparatory school, if you want to call it.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Slash university, if that's what they call high school.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Like again, back in the 1700s, what they call it.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Kind of all mixed together.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but this is where he very much realized that he was dirt poor and compared to his aristocratic peers.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: So obviously, parents die, leave him.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: He's around all these peers that are uh much more, I guess, higher bred than he.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he knew that he there was a way out with education.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: So he was very hyper-disciplined.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: He received impeccable grades, he won tons of awards, like he was all about just expanding his mind and proving that he belonged at this um institution.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: He also really adopted the ideas of enlightenment.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: So he loved reading about the Roman Republic, specifically about Brutus and Cato and Cassius.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I think it was more so the people that opposed Caesar as a dictator.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: He didn't love the idea of dictatorship.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he loved the, this is more recent for him, but he loved the teachings of Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: And Rousseau, his philosophy was really about um the idea that humans are born free and they're born good.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Like no one's innately bad, but everyone is corrupted by modern civilization and modern society.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Like all the inequalities kind of compact on a person, they compound on a person to create bad people or bad decisions in society.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: So between these two things, the Roman Republic and the Rousseau philosophy, he believes that there should be some sort of democracy where everyone is equal.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: He believes that people are innately good and can make good decisions, but we shouldn't complicate it with uh, you know, these caste systems or monarchies.
25:03
unknown: Right.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: So he's thinking about all this from a very young age.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: He sounds like a nerd.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Definitely a nerd.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: But like how cute.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Cute nerd.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Cute nerd.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: I love him right now.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, right now.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: Right now.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Bad guy later.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Um and then there's this one incident that has to be talked about.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if this is more like myth, legend, if this actually happened, but it has to be said.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: But apparently, uh again, he did so well at school, and he was a great orator.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Like he delivered these beautiful speeches at such a young age that he was chosen to deliver the speech in Latin to all of his class, to the whole, I guess, you know, high school, prep school that the king and queen were even invited to.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm just like the idea of like French aristocratic high school would be a really funny concept for a show.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: That'd be a great show.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, we'll call it Le Grand.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
26:01
SPEAKER_00: The the clicks that are going on.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so sassy.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: There's so much drama.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: All their little powdered wigs and stuck-up noses.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: And their little breeches.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so apparently he had delivered the speech, and the king and queen were invited to attend the speech.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Like that's how big of a speech was.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Marie Antoinette?
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: And at the time it was Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: We know them.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Apparently, I mean, they had to come basically out of obligation.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: So they didn't even get out of their carriage.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: So picture him giving this speech of his life, you know, as I don't know how old he was, but say he's 16, 17, whatever, you know, young age, to his entire student body and the king and queen.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And they literally kind of scoot by in their carriage and like barely look out the window.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like Taylor and Travis showing up, but they would get out and participate.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: It would be a big deal.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to relate to someone that's that I would be excited to show up.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Then they they leave.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: So you Taylor and Travis wouldn't leave.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: They're too nice.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: No, but you, Megan, are giving the speech of a lifetime.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And then they just And they roll up in their little Bentley and they barely roll the window down and they kind of give you a nod, maybe.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Not even.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: They don't even look at you.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And they don't even roll down the window.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Just keep going.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: They go.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: How would you feel?
27:22
SPEAKER_00: I would I would say, what's the use?
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And flip a table and give up and then become a bloody revolutionary.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, skipping ahead.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Um so so that I think solidifies his feeling of like, I am lowly.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: These aristocrats suck between the people that he goes to school with and the royals coming to visit him and not even giving him a nod.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: He's he's already at a young age, like feeling the very certain type of way about the monarchy and about aristocracy.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it, you know, he's still very much an idealist.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh he goes after school, once he graduates, he goes back to Eros and he becomes a lawyer.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Good for him.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: He has this small town practice, a very successful practice, and he takes up tons of pro bono work as well.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's doing well financially, but he's also able to take on cases for the poor and help them without pay.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: And he he becomes such a force in the town.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: People respect his, I guess, um, his grace, his generosity, and people respect his virtue and his idealism.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: So they start calling him the incorruptible.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: And they literally said he had no vices.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: They said, like a lot of men, even if they're good men, you know, everyone's got a vice.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're a gambler, you're a smoker, you go to the brothels, whatever.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: It's like every man has a vice, every woman too.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, but for him, he was seen as incorruptible.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: Nothing could get to this man.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he finally gets the appointment of a lifetime, and he becomes one of five judges in a local criminal court.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: And at this point, he's 24 years old.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: So the year is 1720 or so.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Or middle-aged for them.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: I know, potentially middle-aged, potentially young, potentially old.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: This is 1782.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, as soon as he gets this appointment, though, he realizes that this criminal court is tough for him because he has a fierce opposition of the death penalty.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Say that again.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: He has a fierce opposition to the death penalty.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Maximilian Robespierre opposes the death penalty.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Noted.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: I will write that down.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Keep that in mind for later.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Kind of dog ear that.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: So dog ear that one.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so he he's so opposed to this that he has to resign from being a judge because he can't dole out that kind of judgment to people.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: He can't bestow the death penalty on anyone.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: He was barely in that position, too, when he decided to leave.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: So 24 years old, idealist, incorruptible, Robespierre decides no, no, this is not for me.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to be a judge because I cannot condemn people to death.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's at this point that Robespierre moves away from his legal practice and more into the political world.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: 1788, he really starts to get momentum into his political influence.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: He becomes um one of the members of the estates general.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: It's split up into three representations that makes up all of France.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: The first estate is the clergy, the second estate is nobility, the monarchy.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And then the third estate, which is what Max was representing, was regular everyday civilians, peasants, commoners, common people.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: So three sections, 95% of the population fell fell into the third estate category.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Like we would fall into the third estate category, right?
30:51
SPEAKER_00: And yet they only had that that was 95%.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: They only had one third of the vote.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: So talk about really, really swayed there.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Considering the monarchy, the nobility, being such a small percentage carries one-third of the weight of the voting.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like modern America, where we have our popular vote and our electoral college.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, presidents of our country can literally win a popular vote, but lose the electoral college and then lose the presidency because the states and their electoral representation didn't get you there, even though exactly a number of people did, which is so silly.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: And the third estate has the number of people in it, but they don't have the power of the voice that they need.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And of course, our friend Max, he's here representing this because he's so passionate about it.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he also it angers him.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: He really, really endorses and supports all of these minority groups, all of the marginalized groups of people.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: That was his bread and butter.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: That is who he was passionate about and he fought for them.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Some of these marginalized groups, women.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: That was a big one.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, remember women?
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, women were a big one that he was supportive of.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: He's pro-women.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: He was pro-Jews, Africans, servants, actors.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that got thrown in there.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Poor actors.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I think just because they were ridiculed a lot and they were a small group without a lot of representation.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: And you have to picture it then in that day.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: I picture like in the movie Casanova where you had these like acting.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: They're almost like like traveling gypsies, you know.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh kind of looked down upon in society.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: So his, I'm just gonna kind of get into what were what were Max's ideologies, what did he believe in?
32:40
SPEAKER_00: He was a man for the people, all of these groups that I had just described.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: He believed in abolishing slavery.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: He believed that people were should be equal.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Again, going off of Rousseau's ideologies, is which is what he was so enthralled with as he was going through his studies.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: He believed in full and equal citizenship.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: He believed everybody had a right to vote.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Again, well, males.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm so sorry I can't get ahead of myself.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Males have the right to vote.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: He supported women's education, but not necessarily suffrage.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: That, you know, is just like assumed at some point, yeah, one or another.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: But uh, yes, voting for all males.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Again, can't reiterate this enough.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: No death penalty.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh he also really opposed war.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Did.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: For several reasons.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And this was on the brink of Austria going to war with France.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And this was a really big deal for him because war could mean a few things.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: He was really concerned that war could create some type of military dictator, which is again, he was very anti-dictator monarchy, having one to rule them all.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: One man to rule them all.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: But, anyways, I'm kind of getting ahead of myself there.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Those were just his beliefs, his ideologies.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Again, more reasons to kind of be like, yeah, he sounds like a cool guy.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Like he cares about the little man, he cares about the servants, the slaves, he cares about the people who don't really have a voice.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he was very, very, very um passionate about all of these ideologies.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: And by June 1789, Max actually takes that third assembly, right?
34:25
SPEAKER_01: The peasants, the commoners, and he breaks off to form an entirely new thing called the National Assembly.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And just so you know, like the National Assembly, it gets a lot of rebrands over time.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: It's called a few different things, like the Legislative Assembly and you know, a few other names.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: So just know that it's essentially the third estate.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I think National Assembly is easier.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they break off and they, I think they take a nod from the Americans across the sea who've recently split from England after like a billion levers or whatever you call it that Louis for leaves levies.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: A lot of money France spent to help America.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're talking about the currency that's Lie J.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I don't know what I'm talking about.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: The money that they spent to help America.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Wink wink post-Fourth of July.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt on that.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: But own a lot of money.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: A lot of money went towards that to free another country.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: So ironically, Louis XVI supports the American Revolution, but that's also because it's against England.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he just didn't like England.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't want England to succeed.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: But now here's his own group of revolutionaries looking at the constitution of America and saying, you know what, we can do this too.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So they begin to draft a constitution, grievances towards their king.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, they they draft a new taxation system.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: So all of this starts to reflect uh either a constitutional monarchy like England has at the time, or a full-on revolution like the Americans.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Right, and not have any monarchy.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: So so there's like there they do it in a very subtle way because Louis at this point, I think, I think he thinks he's still involved.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: He still like thinks he's giving his blessing.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you guys can come up with this little constitution thing or whatever.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: I actually think Louie is scared of the rebels as well and of the revolution that he feels like is coming.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: So he he tried he he kind of tries to play the cool guy, or he's like, Yeah, yeah, I agree.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: I have way too much power.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: You should definitely incorporate some because he's just kind of a weak yes man.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember, and I can't remember if you actually said this at the top of your uh your note about the Estates General, but the whole reason the Estates General met in the first place was because France was in deep debt.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: They needed to fix their tax problem because of how much money they sent to the Americas.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: So like Louie at this point doesn't have a whole lot of leverage.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: He's like, yeah, we needed the Estates General to meet to discuss these tax problems and how to like financially be okay.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: So he can't really be the one to call the shots right now.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: He's kind of letting this new revolutionary party be the one to say something.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: And they do start to make some changes.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So, like, for example, this might be feel like a little thing, but it turns into a big thing, is they propose having the militia restored.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So having just like regular civilians being there to protect themselves.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And that led to them, lo and behold, demanding weapons, right?
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Which inevitably turns into storming the Bastille.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: And the militia eventually becomes the National Guard, which is something Robespierre very much supported.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Like he was cool with all of that.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: He wanted that because it was giving the people, the civilians, the regular citizens, the Doshmos, some voice in power, right?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And not giving it to the monarchy and his ruling and his decision, right?
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, so by 1790, Max is actually elected to be president of the powerful Jacobian political club.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Fancy.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: Which think of it just like a political party, right?
38:02
SPEAKER_01: They also called themselves the um Society of Friends of the Constitution.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Not as cool.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: I know, not as not as fun as Jacobian, but they all believe in equality of men.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Again, men before the law.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Not women.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Not women.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: But you did like women.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Support the women, give them some education.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: A little bit.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Eventually they'll vote, maybe.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: But right now it's about the men.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: The equality of men.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they're they're again, he's he's getting this sympathy from this new group.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: He becomes their new president, and he's starting to feel himself, really.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: He's like, great, like here I am.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I was elected to the third estate, and now I'm a representative in the National Assembly, and now I'm the leader of this Jacobian political club.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm doing pretty well in terms of my voice.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he like he wants to be the voice of the people.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: All he wants is to represent the people against the monarchy.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: And his voice was heard a lot.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: In 1791 alone, in one year, yeah, the man had 328 speeches.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: That is almost, almost a speech a day.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Like he was talking a lot.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: We there was a documentary we watched that said Alexander Hamilton in America wrote like 50 different essays to support the constitution.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, but compare that to the 300 speeches that Robespierre said to defend his idea of constitution and democracy.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: So, so uh Max was not sleeping on the job.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: He was very committed to this position, very committed to the idea of reforming the government.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and what so I just want to make a note on who he was as a person, really quick.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Because I think when you think about someone like Robespierre, and at least in my mind, I always thought of him as like this like rugged, revolutionary, like tough guy soldier.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: That's just who I had in my head.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: You know what I found out too?
39:52
SPEAKER_01: I had the same thought about like Robert E.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Lee in the Civil War in America.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: I just picture these as like brute men, you know, who are like they will do fighting.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they will stick up a pistol.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, like stop at nothing to like enforce their will.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: And then when you see photos of Robespierre and Robert E.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Lee, they're like these like genteel, yeah, like Max very doofy looking sophisticated men.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: So, so Max actually, he is um again, when you look at him, what you wouldn't think of him as a revolutionary.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: He's meticulously groomed, like to the point where it's like OCD groomed.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Kind of looks like a cat.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: He's beautiful, like a little house cat, kind of like a little Persian cat.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful cat.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Parisian cat.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: And he wears this perfumed powdered wig.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: He wears the knee breeches, he has the finest manners of anyone you'll meet.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: So he's not coming across like this, again, like un unruly usurper.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Ah, hello, sir.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, how are you?
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Very timid.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: He's a bit nervous too around people, which I think people tend to trust.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, you're not here to seek power.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're this timid, nervous fellow.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, he is a bit riddled with anxiety, and I think he overcomes a lot of that to obviously have these big speeches and speak in front of people.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: But he also comes off as a little suspicious, and like he's not like you might trust him right away, but you're not quite sure where he falls because he's a little bit more guarded than you'd suspect of a revolutionary.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: So just a little bit of a note on who he is.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Kind of a funny guy.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like people are just like, okay, you're just not who I would think of.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: You're not the men leading men.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: You're just like this very prissy, proper man who says the right words at the right time, but we're not quite sure of your intentions.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: You know what I think of when I hear Robespierre?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: We always name drop this restaurant in France, and I forget the name.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: La Le Procoup.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this restaurant probably like 15 times on this show.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Today again for this episode.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna apologize because one day you're gonna go to Paris and you're gonna be like, you know what?
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Those are really annoying girls on that podcast.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Who kind of know what they're talking about, who are really smart and we learn things from them.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: They keep name-dropping this one restaurant in Paris that they always need to go to.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, Les Procoups.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Les Procure is the oldest restaurant in Paris.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And I always think of Robespierre with that because they were very proud of the fact that that was one of his hangout spots.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: And Robespierre would go there and discuss politics with people.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: And they had like his little section that I mean, obviously I'm sure the restaurant has been remodeled time over time over time.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: But um, anyways, it just kind of adds that realism to somebody when you're like, okay, this is where he stood and this is where he was.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: And oh yeah, he would go out and meet his friends for lunch and wine and debate over the state of the affairs of France, you know?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Over coffee, over over espresso.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and like it's a it's an amazing place to go.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: They uh they have little artifacts too.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: I think they have like Napoleon's hat there.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: They do have Napoleon's hat there and like something from Rousseau.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: Rousseau himself was there, obviously.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh Max idolized Rousseau.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Um he went where he went, he ate where he ate.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, Rousseau got the croissants here.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: I shall also get the croissants in the French onine soup.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Soup in the snails.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Snoop.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: I said soup.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: Soup in the snails.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh we had an avocado shrimp dish of some kind.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they had avocados then.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I had an escargot there.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Did you?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh, fabulous.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: It was like the only time I'd be willing to try it.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: That's the place to go.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they'd be really good.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: I told you, but my very first drink of wine was at Le Procoupe and Look where he's look where we are.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Um no, and then uh yeah, and last thing I'll say about Le Procoupe um is that American revolutionaries went there as well when they traveled to France.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: So like Benjamin Franklin, Jefferson, yeah.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean just the place to be still is excellent food, excellent service, and tons of histories.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Five stars from the beheaded girls.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: So Welcome.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, go.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, back to our episode.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: That was our ad of the evening.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: I know.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: And we always give a free ad or two.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: We really need to start charging for these places we like.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: So let's fast forward a bit to 1791.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: So this is about a year after Max is appointed to be the president of the Jacobian political club.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: He's busy talking.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Busy talking, doing a lot of stuff.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: But in this time, Louis XVI actually tries to flee.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: That jerk.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: That jerk.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: That jerk.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Probably puts on a little disguise.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: He's like, yeah, guys, I'm also actually like totally part of a revolution and a rebellion right now.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: There's one over here I'm gonna.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go leave real quick and come back.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: So he leaves and he tries to raise a foreign army to essentially quell this rebellion, but he is caught.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: And you should listen to our episode because we have a different episode specifically about Louis XVI and his M many shortcomings.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Get it.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: If you know, you know.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he's put on trial in 1792.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: So we're not going to get into that because we have a whole nother episode that goes into all of that detail.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: But just know that by the end of this trial is when we start to see Max waver.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: He's no longer the idealistic, incorruptible, perfect man who doesn't believe in the death penalty.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: Because he's finally got his nemesis, the monarch, the guy who he's been railing against all this time.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: He finally has him on trial.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: And when it comes down to it, they have to decide as a, you know, as a group.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: That's a democracy of democracy.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: They decide: will the king live or will he die?
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Will he be exiled?
45:46
SPEAKER_01: What do we do with the king?
45:48
SPEAKER_00: And there was a risk for everything.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: If he was alive, he would still have supporters who could potentially try to get him out.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: If he was just an exile, they could just start the same thing someplace else.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: He could just go raise an army.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of countries sympathetic.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: We have to remember that Marie Antoinette was from Austria.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: So Austria is very invested in this, and they're looking at France like, uh, yeah, if you do anything to King Louis or Marie Antoinette, like we're coming for you.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: They were team monarchy.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Um I I really I want to know if this weighed at all on Max because he was so anti-death penalty for so long.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: And as Elizabeth said, this is where we start to see the transformation.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: He quotes, he says, Louis must die so the nation can live.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Which is his final, I think, chapter of him being a good guy.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because he has now defined what the enemy is.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: He's defining the enemy as the monarchs.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: And anyone pro-monarch.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna get into that a lot more in part two of what does who is Max considering someone eligible for death penalty that he was so previously against?
47:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: But ends up finding out it's quite a useful little tool to keep in your back pocket.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: He might.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I got a little guillotine I'm playing with.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: That's perfect.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Perfect tool for this.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so January 21st, 1793, Louis XVI is officially executed.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Where's my guillotine?
47:28
SPEAKER_01: Guillotine.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: First execution of this era.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: First political execution.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: First political execution.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: And Max watches the king get beheaded, and he essentially watches the old world order of France die.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And with that, this episode will die too.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: I just came out as a terrible one.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: No, that was a bad transition.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh might might fix that one.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, that is a good stopping point, though, because this is now turning into the reign of terror with the execution of Louis XVI.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: So, with that, we're gonna take a little break.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: You will probably take a two week break because you will hear from us in another couple of weeks.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk about why Robespierre, why Max, our friend Max, is seen in such the harsh light that he is, because this next chapter you'll start to see kind of the monster emerge.