Latest / The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+ / Getting Older Doesn’t Mean You’re Done Growing

Transcript

Getting Older Doesn’t Mean You’re Done Growing · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Lauren Crawford.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are not conversations about decline, they are conversations about becoming.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Wisdom Trust.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am here with Aaron Alarcon, and we are going to be talking to Aaron in just a moment.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Before we do that, just a simple reminder that we are here as gay men who are over 50, living our lives to our fullest, doing what we can do.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have it all figured out necessarily.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us are still going through a lot of iterations of who we are, but part of it is about sharing experiences and who we can become.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're feeling you need a little inspiration, that's what these conversations are all about.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also to learn and grow and build community.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So Aaron is a queer Latino man born in Mexico, but grew up in the United States.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: He has a career of 27 years in health and human services, both in nonprofit and government arenas.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And most of it has been in the aging and disability fields.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: He currently serves as a CEO for a nonprofit organization in Austin, Texas, that provides services for older adults and adults with disabilities.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Erin.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And before we dive into some of this transformational stuff, let's learn a little bit more about you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us who you are in the bigger sweeping swath of what that can mean.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, Lauren, thank you very much for this opportunity.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I when when you invited me to be part of this podcast, I immediately said yes, because as you mentioned, entering this stage of our lives can be difficult, can be difficult, but also it is an opportunity to for transformation.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: It is an opportunity to learn more about yourself.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that I'm honored to be able to share about my journey with you and your audience.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned a little bit of uh who I am.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in Mexico 51 years ago.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll turn 52 this year, and that I spent early years of my life in Mexico, right on the border between Mexico and the United States, and that I came to this country to go to college.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of people, I overstake my visa, and that I was uh I uh I stayed, like I said, in the United States.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't documented for several many years, for several years until I finally was able to adjust my immigration status, like we say here in the United States, to get my papers.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that my my whole career has been in social services, helping people, contributing to make our community a better place for everyone, and that I'm also married to a wonderful man.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Dr.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas Bowdright.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's an academic, he teaches at Austin Community College.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: We both are very committed to the same values: equity, justice, education, economic advancement for all.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have two beautiful cats, Mayari and Dulce.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what brought you into this world of social justice work?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's an interesting story behind that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Part of it could be the immigration story.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think um that I grew up in an environment of helping people, of always being there for others.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: My father, for some part of my early years, was a minister.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I, as we call it here in the United States, I was a preacher's kid, a PK, and that so having people at the house and always being there for those that were in need was always part of my upbringing.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: My mother also, you know, she comes from a tradition of very leftist ideologies.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned about you know the biggest leftist revolutions around the world when I was five and or six years old.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that uh so becoming part of uh of the same field was almost like a natural step for me, and that I grew up, I was raised also by my grandmother.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: My grandmother was a very important figure in my life during the very early years of my life.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So probably that set a pace, or more so, that put a chart in my heart for older adults and also adults with disabilities because I have uh five siblings, and one of them who passed away last year was actually disabled.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: She has developmental disabilities.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that also marked my life with regards to devoting my time to people like her to ensure that they also live in a world that is accessible and that sees them as full human beings.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a little bit why I joined this field.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what you said there made me think, you know, that your mother introduced you to this leftist kind of understanding and and leftist, I want I don't want to use the word politics because that just sort of cheapens everything, but ideology, a different way of viewing reality.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of us in North America don't get any exposure to that, you know, not in our education system.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, anything that's deemed progressive is is, well, in the United States labeled as socialism, which is like a bad thing.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: But my experience with that was going to university, back to university as a mature adult to study communications.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I ended up in these critical analysis, critical theory classes, political discourse.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, holy gosh, there's a whole academy on sort of the stuff that I feel and believe and naturally know to be true.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And here I am sort of exploring some of that in university.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it might be behoove us if we we expose ourselves to a little bit more of that perspective on reality and what what things can look like.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the scariest part right now is that the the current climate is punishing those types of ideologies.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of uh censorship, even especially in universities.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but that push against these ideologies is actually getting more traction, unfortunately.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those of us that are you know on this side, it is I think it's also our responsibility to ensure that we keep them as part of the conversation, that we talk about them, and that we don't let this process of silencing dissenting voices.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know people that hear this might immediately go, I'm not listening to that, but I would ask you just to take a moment to reflect on, you know, the idea that leftist politics are about empowering the people.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that a lot there's so much pushback is because our systems and our institutions, including the academy, are designed in such a way to propagate a certain paradigm and a certain way of thinking and living.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And regardless of what's going on right now with this continued kind of pressure to more tight-fistedness and around these beliefs and ideals, they're the ones that are going to pervade, but it'll be messy getting there.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it's probably not great to stay on that kind of a discourse because some people will shut this off.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: But kudos to you for for that and for showing up and and making that part of who you are and how you be in the world.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: What has that looked like?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you've you've gone from community activism, now you're a big CEO guy.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it seemed like a journey with a lot of ups and downs.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career in the nonprofit sector as a fundraiser when I got out of college, and then from there, you know, I was uh an advocate for individuals with disabilities.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then I became a guardianship case worker.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I did that for like seven years.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I was around 30 and I was still in El Paso, I decided to go back to school for my master's degree.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I looked at the field and the nonprofit sector, and I was like, well, you know, if I love working as part of helping the community, but if I want to move up, I'm gonna have to get a little bit more education.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to school for a master's in public administration in Dallas, in Dallas, Texas, and that that's where I started my uh my management careers, and that I was in Dallas for eight, nine years, and then I moved to California.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in California, that's when I started my PhD.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I started my PhD, I think I was 41 or 42, and that, you know, at first I was I was a little bit reluctant to start doctorate degree such late in my life, but I will never forget something that Dr.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Dicke, who is one of my professors at UNT when I was in my master's, she would always tell us, you know, people come and tell me about education that, oh my God, I'm 35 and I'm I'm barely gonna start my master's.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be 40 when I finish.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I always tell them, Dr.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dickey would say, you are going to be 40 anyway, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why not be 40 with a master's degree?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I thought.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, I'm 42.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it takes me seven years to finish this thing, I'm gonna be 49 anyway.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why not get into 49 with a PhD?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it took me seven years, and I and I think I graduated when I was 48.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: 48, something like that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really big pivot, and kudos to you for doing that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had conversations with a lot of guys over the last few months and building this, and it's really inspiring the number who have returned to do higher level education a little bit later in life.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's great.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So so you you come out of this, uh, you know, PhD, and and now what is life looking like for you today in in Texas?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate, again, to go back to the current, to the climate, from the climate, to the current climate, but in my field, unfortunately, we cannot afford to not pay attention to what's happening.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what is happening, unfortunately, is impacting social services, particularly when it comes to funding.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: The funding coming from all levels of government, all levels of government has decreased, and that we are struggling, struggling to continue providing the services that our community needs.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's challenging, but also I believe that with every challenge comes an opportunity.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this is starting the conversation as far as building collaborations, building partnerships, simplifying processes, you know, just trying to find ways to do the work better and in a way that is truly impactful.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So so I so I'm again, I think that it's challenging times, but I believe that uh in the resilience of our movement and the resilience of our communities, so I think that there is a potential, like I said, for a rebirth and for an awakening.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm excited.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time that I'm challenged.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And even when you're saying that, I'm thinking about the resilience we as gay men have faced, well, gay people, but absolutely we're we're speaking about gay men here, you know, through the sexual revolution period and sexual identity coming to the fore, quickly followed by this HIV AIDS crisis, and then having to navigate and figure out what that all was like, and then the activism that grew out of that, and the empowerment, and then and then the social justicey kind of stuff around equal rights.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So so having the resilience, as you were just saying, this is very much part of the journey of us as gay men.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we forget there's mirroring things going on here, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like in in other equity-seeking communities, there's similar sort of fights that that are constantly happening.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and if we become too inwardly focused, we can sometimes miss that, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and the opportunity, like you're saying, for alliances, for support, for building.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: For as they say, opening up the tent, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Inviting more people to our side.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think easier in these times when we need to be united, we need to be finding common ground, and we need to, you know, increase our numbers, ensure that that we are a unified front.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Even though we see so much of the of the incredible force of the we'll call it the other side, the other side, through the media, through the news media, we have to remember that that's a very skewed reality, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are people like you and the legions of folks who are supporting organizations like yours who are making change every single day that's not going to be reported on the news.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and if we if we remember that and and and and from our hearts know that the good things are happening and plug into them where we can.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what's important.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we spoke earlier, you you you said you've been out in Austin for a while now.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you finding the gay world there?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you so the professional stuff we've sort of sort of addressed.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's going on for Aaron personally with your your love and your partner, and how is life on that level?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my my husband and I moved here from San Francisco, California.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody knows San Francisco is if not the most progressive city, but one of the most progressive cities in the United States with a huge LGBTQ plus tradition, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: New York and San Francisco are always fighting to see who started who started first, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, coming from San Francisco, we had a big community, you know, we had a huge support group.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: San Francisco is one of the probably only few cities in the United States where older adults or older gays are have a place in the community.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: You would go to any bars, you would go to any clubs, you would go anywhere, and there were older gays.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you never felt out of place.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And coming to Texas was a little bit of a culture shock, even though I I've been here in Texas many years.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was a culture shock.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Austin is historically a young city for many years, was a college town, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: In the past 15-20 years, I'm sure a lot of people have heard about this boom that happened in Austin, especially with the with the tech industry moving to moving here.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the adjustment, it it has been a little bit a little bit difficult, to be honest with you.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: But we are very grateful that we have found some support for some, you know, some good friends that that have embraced us and have shown us their love.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that we are, you know, we like I said, we are making the best out of it.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: My my my partner and my husband is involved in other other groups that are also social justice of nature, where he has built some friends, a lot of good friendships.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Through my job, I have met great people, interesting people, nice people that have become our our friends.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so we are, you know, we are we're making the best out of it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't know how long we're gonna be in Austin, but for now, this is home.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know of Austin as a cultural city with lots of music.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hear they have really good music festivals.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point about San Francisco versus New York, some of our brothers in Palm Springs are gonna challenge you.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm meeting so many men who who you know packed up and moved to Palm Springs at this stage in life, and and what a huge, thriving, gay community there is there.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos, kudos to those guys, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like absolutely.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love Palm Springs.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: When I was in California, we would go, you know, pretty regularly.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're absolutely right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is a community that has really embraced you know the older, the older gays, the older queen.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish it were a little bit more diverse racially, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing for Austin, you know, Austin, out of all the major cities in Texas, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, El Paso, it is the least diverse.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but you know, I'm grateful for the for the community that we have.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for the smaller communities, this is one of the the things for me anyway, creating the wisdom trust.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I live in a small city, Victoria, British Columbia, and and there's a lot of gay folk here, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it is harder in small communities, I find, to make the connections.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so the wisdom trust in in the broader scheme of things is to create first a virtual home, and then ultimately, you know, pods of of real people coming together for coffee or for events that they're coordinated.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we use the program as a as a hub to coordinate some of that stuff and and to grow.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know even sometimes talking to, I've got a lot of conversations, and and sometimes talking to men in Palm Springs, for example, they don't get it because it's like, oh, there's a lot going on here.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a unique microcosm, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: As is maybe a San Francisco hub or a New York hub or or maybe in Canada, Vancouver, Montreal, or or Toronto, where there are bigger hubs.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I would argue that we know that loneliness is an epidemic, right, in our society right now for a whole host of reasons, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I anecdotally I know that it it impacts older gay men in a very significant way.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: There are no clear numbers to support that, but that's another reason why I think it's really important that we have these kinds of conversations and also locations virtual initially for folks to come together and talk about issues at this stage in life.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: You specialize in some of this stuff around aging.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are some of the things you see?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, Piggy Backing, what you said about isolation, you know, there's there was a study that was done many years ago, Lauren, that said that isolation, loneliness has the same impact on our health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a statistic that I I use a lot when I when I talk about aging issues to you know to audiences or stakeholders.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And research says that individuals that are part of the LGBT LGBTQ community experience this isolation in a more intense way.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree with you.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's an it's unfortunately something that we as a community should do better, and that I think podcasts like yours that openly talk about aging in the gay community and remove that stigma that aging is something that we don't talk about.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't use the word elder, we don't use the word old, we don't use the word aging, should slowly but surely become not associated with our community and embrace the the joys that come with aging.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then the more we do that and the more we teach that to the younger, to the younger generations, this isolation among among our community is going to go down.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to increase, decrease.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Decrease.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I increase.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was writing about that this week.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we're creatives.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us gay folks are creatives because as kids we were performing because we knew we weren't exactly like those folk kids.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we were performing to kind of keep up to them or not be detected or whatever.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And all that was going on unconsciously or subconsciously because a lot of us didn't understand what was happening here.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we we learn how to perform, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and so we be we we can be really creative in a lot of ways.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like sure, there's the really creative ones.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: We know who they are, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love those folks.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we get a dim light shone on them by others, but we we have this creative capacity.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So why not create our own narrative around what aging should look like in the gay community?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why buy into this BS, the the the sort of orthodoxy of aging looks like this and retirement looks like this and blah, blah, blah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we not just decide, no, this is what it's gonna look like?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's build our elders and hold them on a pedestal and let's give those younger folks a little bit of a of an education on some of the shit that some of us had to go through in the 60s, 70s, and 80s that that they will never really fully understand.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree more with you, Lauren.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as an example, what you what you mentioned that we tend to re-recreate things and recreate process.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let me give you a couple of examples.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: We as a community have uh recreated what sex means to us, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have made sex at our own image, our we have a very particular sex and expression.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing for relationships, right?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: We have challenged the standardization of monogamy, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we have created something that works for each person.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, there are some that still choose monogamy, but others don't, and and they have created that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the next creations that we as a community should embrace is the transformation of aging.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: We should take the process of aging and make it our own and empower it and queer it, as we would say, and just make it fabulous.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Make it fabulous.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we are in the right track.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what and there are there are pockets, like I, you know, there are pockets of that going on, like the radical fairies and things like that.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but we need more, you know, like we need more, we need more.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: We we need to exponentialize that however we can, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, but and but I think I think it's changing.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's changing, Lauren.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think that with the last time you and I talked, we were saying how when you and I were younger and we thought of somebody in their 40s or somebody in their 50s, you know, they didn't only look different, which at the end of the day is not that important, but their their framework was kind of like an older person.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you people reach to 40, you know, it's like now I can have fun, you it and my family, I it was very restrictive, but now you know, you look on TV and you see people that are 40, 50, 60, and they're still thriving and creating and and just you know being living a fabulous life.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, like I said, that it's I I think it's we're on the right track.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and you'll see some some of the other podcast guests are in their 70s and and thriving and doing amazing things creative things, yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait, can't wait.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So as you've moved forward in your life and you've decided like the academic route and getting the PhD and and and continuing to serve and serve on higher levels, what what did that liberate you from?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like what did that allow you to sort of leave behind, if you will?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I see it more that getting to those spaces, right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to lead an organization, you know, and and I I am next year I'm going to celebrate 10 years of uh executive experience.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: But when I turn 50, like something's changed, like something switched.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: My responsibilities at work, my responsibilities with my partner, my responsibilities as a human being.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm also involved in other organizations in their board, et cetera.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: My financial commitment to these organizations were requiring a different framework.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a point that in in these areas that I just mentioned at my job, with my husband, in my philanthropy, et cetera, what I was doing just didn't work anymore.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't work anymore.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, I started feeling frustrated.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I started that things were falling apart because the patterns that I developed during most of my life to deal, you know, with my employees, with the challenges at work, with the challenges with my husband, like every every couple has, just didn't know how to deal with it until I had to come to a realization that, okay, it's time to develop a new framework.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to break the mold of what I think has worked and completely challenge myself and challenge myself to be outside of my comfort zone.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is a process that started for me, Lauren, probably literally around the time I turned 50.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the entire last year for me was difficult in some way, because it was realizing, like I said, that these patterns didn't work.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be scary, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes we identify with these patterns, right?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: We say, oh, this is the way that I handle this, because this is how I am, and this is part of who I am.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: But then you realize that is it who I am or is it something that I learned, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that I just need to relearn a new tool.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So to going back to your question, being in these spaces, you know, work, relationships, my role in the world has forced me, almost forced me, to break them all and to develop new patterns in order to better respond to the challenges that come with these changes in my life.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: With those changes, beautiful.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, there's something, and you're you're still early in your 50s, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: As you get through this decade, there's going to be even more shifting.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I characterize this, and I think it's echoed in a lot of the literature, whether it's Carl Jung or Joseph Campbell or, you know, people who have who have looked at this midlife transition, whether we look at it as the hero's journey 2.0 or whatever it's going to be.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: The way I characterize it is, you know, what we've been doing, all those things that you beautifully describe, including the academic route, it could be working your way through the hierarchy of an organization and becoming the CEO or the VP, all of those things, or maybe more modestly, you know, for people like me who never went into executive-level jobs, we're still moving along.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that is kind of identity related, it's ego-related, it's it's about who am I?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: What am I becoming?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But more from that I kind of perspective.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we come into our 50s and beyond, there's a different kind of yearning.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I call it the soul, wanting, you know, more of a place at the table.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: The soul wants to be recognized and heard.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: All of those beautiful achievements, and sometimes they're not beautiful, sometimes they're struggles.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's the saying?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: The more and kind of thing approach to it, which is okay, there's more to this than all of those things that worked in the past.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like you just said, you're breaking open some things, you're exploring new things, which can leave a lot of us a little bit uncertain.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then so what we do is we double down on what's worked in the past.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then we kind of go, like, why am I unhappy?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I not feeling fulfilled?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like this has worked for me.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I still?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because it requires a new set of tools, a new paradigm, a new part, uh paradigm shift.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Paradigm shift.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a paradigm shift.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, and and it's difficult, like you said.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult, it's disorienting, it's disorienting.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my God, what is going on?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, sometimes I feel that I'm still part of the disorientation, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, it would be wonderful if all the old patterns boom disappear, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly you are this new, renewed version of you.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, not, you know, your old patterns still want to come back.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when you need to learn and develop tools to say, okay, old pattern, thank you.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: You worked for me for 15, 20 years.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: You are here, thank you very much.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now I need to move on.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you have it's it's a process.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a process, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a concrete example of something that shifted that you're like, oh, that you're doing new?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about my management style.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I'm a I'm a Gen X like you, and uh the other day I was talking with a friend who's also a Gen Xer who was telling me that we Gen Xers have a corella de ville complex.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Acruella de Bill complex, you know, like the you know, the femme fatal that is always like mean, yeah, like a girl, like a mean girl complex.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're always very blunt, as you know.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we always blunt, we speak our mind, we don't sugarcoat things.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I made that part of my management style because that's that's how I grew up.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's how that's how I was raised.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: My my the people that raised me, my friends, my mentors, they would, they didn't sugarcoat things with me, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was 24, no, like 22, I was still in college, 22, 23, and one of my best friends, we've been friends since 18, he came and said, Erin, you are gaining weight, your body's look like it's looking like a 40, 40-year-old, like that.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's how we would talk right now back then, and you know, and I was like, oh my God.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get hurt or anything, I just acted on it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: But now going back to what I was describing, that management, that pattern also became part of my management style, you know, very flexible sometimes, and and not really being sensitive to sometimes the people that reported to me.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that that was not working anymore.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed to develop a new way of leading, right?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: A new way of not just being a manager, but a leader, a compassionate leader, somebody that listened.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks to my executive coach uh who hi aile and to my therapist, you know, I'm I have developed tools and queries that I utilize on a daily basis to put me back on track and develop and continue expanding on leadership skills that are going to be that are inclusive, that are compassionate, and that are more collaborative as opposed to hierarchical.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what just one example of the many things that I've changed.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and shout out to coaches, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I ran this yoga program.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had this career that was going over here, but it had this yoga program.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so friggin' arrogant, I was so egoic.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: My way is the right way.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have this amazing teacher that has just, you know, and I study with the guy for 15 years and just more and more and more beautiful content.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: But my approach to it was just so wrong, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like rolling my eyes about other forms and styles of yoga, and you know, this is the right way.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And now I see, you know, 15, 20 years later, it's like, oh, what was I doing?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and what kind of message was I sending out there?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was through coaching when I left a lot of that, and the the little sort of side note there is I was spiritually bypassing a whole bunch of stuff in my life.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when I when I got got into the coaching world, it's like uh coaching is a lot of deep questions, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of inquiry.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, I don't know if I want to answer that question.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then it kind of forced me to kind of look at myself in a whole through a whole new lens.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the fact that you you sent kudos to your executive coach who's yes helping you to navigate through this journey, as well as the psycho psychotherapy kind of stuff or the counseling can be helpful.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: But but I think when you're doing things proactively to become the next iteration of yourself, that's when things open up for us.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: You need to make it a priority.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: You need to make it a priority.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And of you know, I understand that executive coaches are not available for everyone, but even if if you are not able to get an executive coach, you need to at least spend 15, 20 times a day of just being introspective and asking questions and seeing yourself from afar.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here in the United States, especially, we don't have a lot of self-awareness.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: We only see ourselves from our own perspective instead of seeing us from afar, right?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that helps a lot.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: That helps a lot.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Observing our behavior, observing how how we what we do and how we do it impacts people.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoying the podcast?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Find more wisdom trust content at school, s k o l dot com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's our primary community page.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Our primary podcast page is wisdomtrust50.com slash conversations.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: On YouTube you can find us youtube.com slash at the wisdom trust 50.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have a number of other socials where you can find us Substack, Wisdom Trust website, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: All of those are in the show notes where you're listening or watching.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation has you wondering what you want from your own next chapter, I also offer individual coaching for gay men over 50.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: We work together to clarify what matters now and turn that into some practical steps for you for the next stage.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can book a free next chapter clarity session through the link in the show notes.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's next dash chapter-clarity dot l-or-e-n d c dot chatgpt dot site.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's in the show notes.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna explore together whether working together would be useful for you going forward.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you enjoy the rest of the podcast.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to piggyback on something that you said about spirituality.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know that spirituality is something very important for you.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think spirituality is an area, Lauren, that I'm still trying to find the new framework.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And let me explain to you really quick why I in the past 15, 20 years, I have practiced Eastern spirituality and I have followed some teachers that have completely changed my life, that helped me tremendously when I was going through difficult breakups and situations with my family, etc.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: But now, you know, something that also happened with me in my 40s, you know, my my views, even though I grew up very leftist, my view became even more left as I got older, right?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm trying to find a type of spirituality that is a spirituality that is pushing me to be more committed to the suffering of others.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a spirituality that is that is married with my social and economic and racial justice principles and values, not a spirituality that is separated from the suffering of people.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that I'm still trying to develop.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm trying to find my to find my way in in the spiritual realm.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it'll it'll it'll show up.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: My my whole life has shifted radically in the last couple of years.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: No more gur gurus for me.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not seeing that from an egoic point of view, just like you can you can end up in a in a spiritual path where it's like, oh, this is how it's done.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's got to be this.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then we evolve constantly.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if we get too attached to any of that stuff, it can kind of be a little bit too narrow or too too constricting.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you've you've done all of this and and you're you've made all these amazing shifts and changes, and there's gonna be more.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just I know that for you.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is this?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of like the freedom too.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, how are you, uh Aaron, at this stage, like what's opening up for you?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you feel yourself evolving and growing?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what's what's different?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think sometimes I think that life goes in cycles, and sometimes cycles repeat, right?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I am almost feeling that my 50s are having a lot of overtones from my 30s.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the 30s for me were years of a lot of growth, of a lot of pain.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I hope that I don't have a lot of pain during my 50s, but I'm seeing a lot of growth as well.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like I am that cycle is repeating itself, but under completely different scenarios.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that to answer your question about the freedom, I think that the 50s are a what I what I see at this point, and that might change, right?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you know, early 51, I see the 50s is gonna it's almost like a it's almost like a training, like a training academy to prepare me for the next decade, which will be my 60s.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I so I think that right now is the freedom to be who I will be in my next stage.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I see it right now.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the it's interesting, you know, highlighting the the the pain, you know, the growing pains, if you will, of the 30s and stuff.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think what happens is, and this is part of the wisdom, right, as as we age, is those pains are gonna keep showing up because that's part of life.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like life is always throwing interesting things at us.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: We get to navigate them.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think with this experience and with this wisdom, the pains aren't quite as maybe drastic or dramatic that we can actually pause and take a breath and figure out how we're gonna navigate through them.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even, you know, like I experienced bankruptcy after COVID and like that's big, you know.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you how do you navigate all of that stuff?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if that was in my 30s, it would have been a totally different experience than it was when I had a little bit more confidence, a little bit more sort of groundedness as who I am as a being, you know.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the stuff that can be part of you know how we celebrate aging is like a lot of us will maybe not suffer the the the small stuff quite so much, right?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: The water off the duck's back kind of thing.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and and then it's it's kind of like the bigger challenges.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, how do I get to how do I get to you know address that now?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a very different approach, yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that I think that that process is different from for everybody.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that the length of that process is also different for everybody.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the the key for me is just to keep an open mind, to make an open mind, have be curious, ask questions, analyze.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I believe that we all should always be analyzing our behavior.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And just to know why, you know, the other day I was talking with somebody about some problematic behavior, and that person was like, Well, it is just it is because it is.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it is.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yes, but you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you want to know why?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you want to know why you act in a certain way?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we we all need a little bit more curiosity about that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that curiosity also goes back to being a child, right?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even Jesus said if you don't become a child, you are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and children are curious.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: They want to know, they want to see.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we need to have that curiosity when it comes to ourselves.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and curiosity is is is one of the pillars, I think, of of this sort of conscious aging discussion that we're having in the Wisdom Trust, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to remain curious.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have, like you're saying, when we were kids, it was like, what's that?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's that?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking the other day, or maybe it was even this morning, how I would snoop through my parents' dresser drawers to see, well, what do they have in there?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you'd find you'd discover things.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, that is so incredible that as kids, we would be curious about this anything because we were just trying to figure it out.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, and so I think that's part of aging intentionally is like keeping that curiosity open.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, and and part of that is the aging process.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's that gonna look like?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like because this thing is changing.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: We can't change that, and uh, some people are trying, but yeah, you know, so how do we be curious about the aging process, you know?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, curious about the aging process and also question again the patterns that society has installed on us about a fifty what a 50-year-old should do, or how a 50-year-old needs to look, etc.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Always question that and and also be very in tune with your body.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, we all know, and probably our bodies start sending us signals maybe in the late 30s.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had my first back pain when I was like 36, 37 years old.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: My my husband had started having back pains last year.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, welcome, welcome.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, being in tune with our bodies and and being sensitive to our bodies, loving our bodies the way we are.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the other day I was in the shower and that I was, you know, meditating, and suddenly I I realized that I don't tell my body enough.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, how much I love my body, because it has carried me through so much.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so much, and it's still here and it's still healthy with you know with issues that we all have, and it's still strong, and it still has a lot of energy.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think being in tune with our bodies, being grateful with our bodies, loving our bodies, it doesn't matter in what shape it is, is very important, especially at any age, of course, at any age, but as we age, I think it's very, very important.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just changed the captions to the leveling up section.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're saying, like I re I remember reading Mel Robin's book a few years ago, and it had this little technique, the high five technique, it was called or is called.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so every morning I've been doing that for years now.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Finish brushing my teeth, and I'm like, you've got this.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll you know, say a few of the things I'm doing for the day, and I love you.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And looking at yourself in the mirror, that's a hard thing for a lot of us to do, and to look at this aging body in the mirror.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of a lot of folks are on Facebook showing their shirtless pics and all that stuff.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did that the first time today, by the way, which is kind of funny.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: For you great because we do want to, you know, be honoring this, but also the concern I have about too much of that stuff is it can become another neuroses around I've got to look a certain way or I'm not good enough in this gay community.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's not where we want to go with that stuff, right?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Another, another thing I was I was thinking about too is like I'm a yoga guy, right?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that we'll we'll do in this community with people are interested and ready is let's do some yoga together.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we keep the body moving, because those back blowouts, they happen.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: They happen.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if we can keep the spine supple and strong, you know, that's it's yoga is such a simple and beautiful way to do things.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of the fancy yoga out there.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I roll my eyes at a lot of that stuff.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's that judge yoga me, right?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you can keep it simple and designed in such a way, delivered in such a way that it helps us to age intelligently.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly, exactly.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I read about yoga.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: I did think it it was a phrase given by a yoga, you know, guru years ago.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: It says that we are as young the flexibility of our spinal cord.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, spine is all it.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and a little side note, it's it's not just the physical spine.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's all this beautiful energy there that we want to tap into.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's related to sexual energy, but that sexual energy transmutes into your spiritual energy.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly, exactly.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: So any other any other things you're doing in the sort of leveling up sphere?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Any any changes or differences of how you're how you're living at this ripe young age?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think another another thing that I that I am becoming more, and I briefly touched on it earlier, is you know, how I how I respond to my partner and how we navigate living together, and that being side by side in this in this uh in this life, and that I have also had to reframe the way I I thought relationships should work, or how I respond to my husband's needs.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's again, it's it's a process to be constantly aware, constantly ensuring that you are giving your partner the most devoted attention.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and something that I didn't mention, I'm sorry, I'm I'm going to move a little bit from the subject.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: On top of everything, the changes that we're talking about, I was diagnosed with uh ADSD at the age of, I think I got diagnosed two years ago or three years ago.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my entire life, Laura and I I struggled with attention deficit.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought, you know, I grew up in Mexico, we didn't know what ADSD was back there.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that that was the way people were.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, you know, that's how I am.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: I struggle with this, you know, needless to say, I had to put a lot of effort to go through school because it was really a struggle.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now that I am, you know, I have a very demanding job, I was like, something is wrong with me.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: I need to seek help because my attention, attention deficit, attention deficit becomes more triggered during during challenging times, during stress.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I went to see a uh a clinician, and you know, after many tests, you know, I was diagnosed.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I that also has been an eye-opener about how many things that I thought, well, that's just who I was, that's just you know who I am, was actually part of my diagnosis.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I'm also working on, you know, developing new new ways to be attentive and to prioritize and and to avoid distraction.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: So so yes, it's been an interesting journey.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's powerful.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for sharing that because I've had conversations with you know people I know who have recently been diagnosed too.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it can just be so like you've eloquently shared, oh, that's why that makes sense, right?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that can be such an easing of a burden about confusion.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, it's kind of like when we when we when we finally come out to ourselves, it's like, oh, you know, exactly.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like another layer of the onion is revealing a deeper exactly who we are.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that might inspire other people who are dealing with some of those neurodivergent issues to maybe have them explored, maybe, maybe get tested, you know, if you're it's right, exactly, exactly.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and and if it's not that, you know, great.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if it's that, you know, research says that people that have ADHD and are go undiagnosed, their lifespan is shorter than than the majority of people, like for four four to six years.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: So undiagnose ADHD can cause a lot of problems.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really encourage people that think, you know, I've always I've always struggled with that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it me?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the diagnosis?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just go and talk to a doctor and see, you know, what assistance you can receive.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're just gonna pivot a little bit into the having fun.
• 53:33
  unknown: Yes.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I think that this is an important one is because you know, maybe what was fun in our 30s or into our 40s, it's no longer, it no longer holds the same kind of cachet or weight, right?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does fun look like for you right now?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you talked about navigating your relationship with your husband and things like that.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, you know, just share us, share with us a little bit about this.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, again, I as a Gen Xer and as a gay Gene Xer, I the class, the nightlife was very important for us back then.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was the only place, Lauren, where we could be ourselves.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: There was no LGBTQ resource center when I was growing up, right?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't remember that there was even a pride, at least in El Paso.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think the pride started having until later in my life.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: So nightlife has always been part of part of my life.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in San Francisco, I was uh involved with a friend who is a party producer, you know, was involved with that.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: So nightlife, I've always enjoyed nightlife.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: However, the the extent of me enjoying nightlife and the content of the night of nightlife is now changing.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I enjoy more smaller gatherings, you know, they don't have to be super loud gatherings, kind of like, you know, I I get a little bit triggered, and my I get like over over sensory, you know, like my sensors, my sense goal to go in overdrive.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and now I'm I'm like I said, enjoying more more intimate gatherings, more talking with people, just getting to know our friends and just having deep conversations as opposed to just listening to music that I don't even know what they are what the music is about.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm also lucky to that my my husband and I also love, we love having fun together, we love traveling, we love the arts in general.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, fun for me is a form of self-care because it is it takes you away at least temporarily from all the challenges and and you know the the things that concern us, particularly with work.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: So having fun for me is very important.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I always do something every weekend that I consider fun, whether it is to go to the movie or or just going to see a show.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, having fun is very, very important.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody should do it according, of course, with their tastes and their preferences and their moment in life.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we can get really complacent in our comforts of what our lives look like.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this can be that kind of thing that happens in midlife and beyond where we we kind of isolate a little bit, we disengage a little bit.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so much streaming now.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can sit in front of the TV endlessly and oh, that's interesting, that's fascinating.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my when I was studying with my teacher, that first teacher in yoga in the yoga world for 15 years, and I'd meet with him, you know, every few years for a one-on-one private kind of thing.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and he would always say to me, 'How are you having fun?' Because you could see in me, I was this hyper achiever.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know now as a positive intelligence coach that I've got this hyper achiever saboteur in me that's like, go more, do, do, you know, yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: And at the expense of this thing about having fun.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so he would challenge me to, like you're saying, schedule fun into your life, right?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it that doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't have to be something wacky, but right, I like movies.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, are you going to movies regularly?
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I like music and dance.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to those productions as you can?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important, especially in this stage as we age, to make sure that we're having fun.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's more than you know, booking a cruise a few times a year or whatever people are doing.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be that day-to-day kind of thing too.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hopefully stuff and content that we can explore in the wisdom trust together.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: If people are kind of going, I don't know, I need to have fun, but I'm not sure what to do, right?
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, and it's okay to be in that stage of like, okay, I want to have fun, but I don't know how to do it.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it'll come.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just again, keep asking questions, keep being curious, try new things.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, try new things.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: The older we get, sometimes the more gets we get stuck on what we like, which can be a good thing, right?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you have already tried something and you didn't like it, what is the purpose?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Trying it again if you don't like it, right?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe there are things that you have never tried that and you just think you don't like, but maybe, maybe, maybe you try them and you you like them.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think again, having that curious outlook, curiosity can can also help us what fun looks right for us.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to my first men's chorus meeting tomorrow.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll I'll let you know how that goes.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so luck.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I I sang with uh the Dallas Gay Chorus.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not called the Dallas Gay Chorus, they call it the Turtle Creek Chorale.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I sang with them for three seasons when I was in Dallas, and I had the best time.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: It it really provided a lot of support.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had just finished a I had just gone after a breakup.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: So being with that with that wonderful group of men completely changed my life.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure you're gonna have a great time.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: And music has a spiritual undertone to it that we don't always see resonate.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why it's uplifting, right?
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: So now, wisdom.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're at this this sort of pinnacle of the discussion where you get to share with listeners and viewers a nugget or two of wisdom.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, I think that I have been sharing a couple of a few things of of what wisdom means for me.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: What resonates for me the most with talking about these issues that we've been discussing is again, I'm gonna bring it to curiosity, I'm gonna bring it to questioning, I'm gonna bring it to self-awareness, to keeping our minds always active and always asking why and how can I do this better?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: How can this process improve?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: How can I improve my relationship, even if it's good?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: How can I work out better?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: How can I eat better?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: How can I, you know, it's always looking for improvement, always looking for ways to be more in tune with the vision that you at one point had of yourself.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes as we get older, Lauren, we stop dreaming, we stop imagining how we want to be.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that should be part of who we are until we die.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think the curiosity and this permanent state of wondering is going to help us live our old age more committed, more comprehensively, and happier.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when we get to that point, when we are about to leave this world, we can see, you know what?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had a good life.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I absolutely love it.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: What a what a great way to wrap up this discussion, Aaron.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you so, so much for being here.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got a link here for Aaron on LinkedIn.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're interested in following up, this LinkedIn coordinates are here.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's LinkedIn.com slash I N slash Aaron.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's A-A-A-A-A-R-O-N-Alarcon A L A R C O N dash P H D dash M P A dash 332345.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a long one.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or people just can Google on LinkedIn, Aaron Alaricon, PFD, and then it'll come pop up.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: This community grows when we show up for each other.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Watch for other content on our YouTube channel, and stay connected to us through our school platform.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we engage and are building our community.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: For many of us, it's the moment life finally begins to open up.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're not alone in this.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're in it together.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time in the Wisdom Child.