Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 348: Eating Walrus and Whale with An Igloo Boy

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Ep. 348: Eating Walrus and Whale with An Igloo Boy · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening Hunt Don't Meet
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: e podcast. You can't predict anything presented by First like
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: technical outerwear for every Hunt First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: all right Man, super special gas to date. We're joined
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: by Seth Cantner, who I've been wanting to have on
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Writer, photographer, commercial fisherman hunter born
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: in a sad igloo in Alaska or a cave raised
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: in the sade Igloo. Go ahead, well, I'm filling the gas.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Sadly enough, it's true. A when I uh finally was
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: able to find a girlfriend in my middle ages, I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: uh she started saying I was born in a cave,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and I was like, no, it was It just had
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a tunnel and dirt floor, and and uh, I went
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to a lot of work to describe how it wasn't
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a cave. And now I'm sort of accepting that A
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: lot of mice running around on the floor and dark
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and cariboo hairs and everything, um cariboo hides to sleep
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: on and Cariboo first where and Cariboo muck lux And
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: that's I guess why I ended up writing about Cariboo.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So they say, right, what you know about uh, We're
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: gonna get into this book. You got a lot of
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: books though, three three books, now four books, I think
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it's five or six. Yeah, when's the children's story. But
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I first became aware of you when Ordinary Wolves came out.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: That was my first book novel. I wrote it as
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a novel so I could tell the truth about uh,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: northern Alaska and inpact villages and being a white boy
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: in the huh, in the native communities I grew up in,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and um and uh. I didn't really tell the Alaska
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: that people were used to and had a hard time
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: finding a publisher because of it, and oh abs freaking
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I got fifteen hundred dollar advance after ten years of
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: trying to get it published. Yeah. Yeah, but that book
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: got around a lot though a certain extent. Yeah, um,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: but um yeah, it's kind of shocked people. I was
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: always irritated as a kid reading about well, I didn't
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: want to read about Alaska, super boring. Um, we had
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: so much uh, you know, bear licking the acts or
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: you know, every wolves outside hauling at the dogs, and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: so to read about Alaska was super boring and um
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and when you did, it was all glamorized and bullshit.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: And so when I wrote about that country, I wanted
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to kind of described the real stuff, you know, um,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: which had to include you know, drunks where they are
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: fifteens and the stuff that maybe the New York houses
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: didn't want to hear about Alaska and expected you to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: leave out. Um. Yeah, that was my first book. It
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: took me probably twenty years of trying to get to that,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: you know, and then you follow that up with Shopping
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: for Porcupine. Yeah. People wanted a memoir and I didn't
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: realize it was weird to grow up in a Saudi
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: glue and uh and be sort of separated from people,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and uh, I expected a lot from humans. We didn't
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: see him very often, and and we would sort of
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: run barefoot up the hill and tell my parents travelers
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: that was the word for people here. Yeah. Whoops, almost
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: said the wrong word, but anyway, Um, yeah, travelers. It
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: was a big deal back then because they brought news
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: of other villages, usually any pack hunts and um, and uh,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: we just saw people the least of you know, most
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: animals and um, so bears super common, grizzly bears show up,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: but but people were not. So. UM. I could go
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: on and on about all this, but anyway, I didn't
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: realize until part way through my life that I was
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: sort of in between white and uh native, and in
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: between sort of human and U or nature and humans
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and um. And then when I did go out into
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: this what we called the white world, it was incredibly
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: difficult to understand, um why people didn't make sense. Which
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: now I've accepted that they don't, um, which is a
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: lot easier once you accept that. But um, at that
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: point it was like, well, bears to me makes sense.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Uh um. And then also there's that whole thing where
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: when you're armed in dangerous as you know, igly boy,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I never went anywhere without a very few places without
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: a gun, and um it was kind of like a shovel.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't think of it as a Um.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: All this stuff about guns now is weird, but it's
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: more like shovels. So um, take your shovel. Um. And
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: so to me, the idea of like, uh, everybody being
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: excited about a bear being dangerous is such a weird
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: concept compared to what about humans. I mean, they're so
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: fucking dangerous, um and weird and unpredictable, and bears generally especially,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I can tell you a lot more
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: people on guns because of humans than they do because
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: of bears. My worldview is horribly warped. And I'm just
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: at fifty seven, I'm finally realizing that. Well we'll get
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: into that, Okay. Then you followed up most recently, Well,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: this is I love this book Man A Thousand Trails
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Home Living with Caribou, which like kind of moves outside
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of just general I mean, there's a lot of general,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: broad experience you talk a lot about growing up, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: it gets it. I mean it gets into the sort
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of biology, the biology of cariboo along with the cultural
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: significance of caribou. Um it really paints like a really
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: in depth picture. And I like about as you can't
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: talk about I shouldn't say you can't. Reading the book,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: one realizes you cannot talk about cariboo without talking about people. Absolutely, yeah,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: which is pretty indicative of everything we have going on
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: with the modern world. Um um, I just I can't
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: stand that to a certain extent, It's like I want
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: to protect the wild land up there, and which is
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: you know, me protecting my lifestyle. But you gotta turn
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: your focus to people, which is a painful thing. You know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I want to focus on Cariboo, embars and wolves, but
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: it all goes back to the people and them are
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: guing over, you know, more and more resource conflict and
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: who gets hunt what and um. So it's a really
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: hard book to write for me because I didn't know
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: what to say, and I guess to a certain extent
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I still don't. And I did the best I could
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to go back and describe, you know, the whalers coming
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and what that meant for uh, for natives in Alaska,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: and and very quickly what it meant for Cariboo, which
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: was you know, um um almost wiping out the herds
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and um and then too and that was that had
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: to do with firearms coming. And then nowadays we have
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: UM basically this big influx of technology, cell phones, communications.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So if a Cariboo swims across the Kobuk River, uh,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: people know pretty quickly and and uh and so there's
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: all these boats and some automatic guns and so being
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: a Cariboo is um is um starting to look like
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: it did UM in eighteen seventy five when UH rifled
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: UH um my skits and then repeating guns first arrived
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: in the Arctic. It's this um danger zone for um
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: us uh wiping out animals with our technology. So that's confusing.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: But the thing I really wanted to do with this
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: UH book was UM described you know, my love of caribou,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: which started with you know, meat and furs and uh
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: you know, utilitarian use, and then UH this idea of
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: being out on the tunder and having this you know,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: thousands of cariboo come across the across the tunder towards
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: you and that companionship on the land, so you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: all these different forms of greed. I think where you like,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: you know, caribou roasted ribs, and you like the warm furs,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: but you like the companionship of this animal too, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: UM and what it would mean to be on a
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: on an empty land if if we mess up, you know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that's one of the things We're gonna cover off on
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: some stuff. And one thing that I wanted to get
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: into is the long line. Just as an outside observer
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: who enjoys just spending time in Alaska, as a tourist.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: You know, Uh, the long line of things that all
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: seemed to be competing to be the thing that ruins Alaska. Uh,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: meaning it was white people. It was the snow machine.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: It was the bolt action rifle. It was the bush plane.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: It was if you ask Buck Bowden, it was in
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: reach devices. Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's it's been getting
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: rude a long time. Yeah, that's interesting. And then and uh,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I think it was before this started you were talking
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: about these these are the good old days. And in
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: some ways it really is because um, I like to say,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you know, regardless of that crazy amount of change we've
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: had in climate and because of vegetation, and then uh
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of we're kind of buzzing with technology up
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: there now. Uh lots of times them out on the tundra.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: You know. I just came from spending breakup. I never
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: saw a human, you know, for almost a month, and
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: um uh just animals and trees and thunder, and so
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that the land in some ways is is uh we're
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the ones who really changed, um um and um yeah. Anyway,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I always like writing about it. I have this impulse
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to to describe that, uh, the Innupact people and the
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: land and the connections and the um how we used
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to live. I guess this focus on um every animal
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: when it's fat, the innupact. We're fixated on fat for survival. UM.
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  Speaker 1: So I grew up. If you uh, if you came
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  Speaker 1: home with a skinny caribou, you are significantly more disgusting
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: than uh, you know, serial rapist or or any other
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: kind of criminal. Um because you brought home the skinny
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: caribou and um and uh and you laugh, but it's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: not funny. Uh and you know all that was back
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to survival and the fat just kept your dog team
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and your family and yourself going. And UM, I hate
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to tell you, but uh, I gotta cooler muck tuck
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: here next to my ankle that I'm gonna pull out
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: here in a minute. And uh so we'll need some
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: cold weather afterwards. And I'm not seeing that outside right now,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: But get the get the muck tuck ready, and we're
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna talk about a couple things that we're
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: gonna come back in. And when we jump back in,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about cariboo fat. Okay, Uh, all the first
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: light solitude kit is now it's not windproof. They added
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: in a windproof membrane. So tried and true sanctuary line
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: back in stock now was out, but now it's back
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: in stock. And what's even better about the sanctuary line
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: for white tail hunting improved windproof membrane. Okay, you can
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: officially declare it that. So the solitude vast saltude jacket,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: solitude bib sanctuary two point oh jacket sanctuary two point
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: oh bib. Check them out. You want kill big, huge
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: white tails, not be chilly. Oh, so Seth is officially married. Yep. Now,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: when you set your date, did you realize that you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: set your wedding date for the Custer's death. No, never
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: occurred to you, dude. The minute you told me you
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: were getting married that day, I was like, oh, that's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: day Custer died, And I know exactly what I'm gonna
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: talk about when I officiate the wedding. Never occurred to me.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: It didn't occurred to me that it was Kenyan Ferrywell
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: eye do either. But you know how you're living. You
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: learn now like Serve Tea, you on a silver platter.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it when you told me that. The
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: next day I went to we we had like you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: very Catholic like memorial for my grandpa's passing, which happened
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: about ten years ago. So I drove over to Bill
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and I saw the fam had this deal and my
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: stepdad was walking around being like, you know what happened
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: this weekend? Right? I was like, huh, interesting, We're at
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: a memorial for someone who passed away, and somebody is
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: bringing up the death of George Armstrong Custer, which was
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: geographically much closer to where we were, and the day
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: prior we were at um a ceremony celebrating the union
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: of two people, and you brought up George Armstrong Custer,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and it just kind of made me think what would
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: be the more appropriate venue seth wedding? This confused because
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Little Big Horn is July and twenty six, but Custer
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: got killed on twenty five, and it was just kind
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of like a skirmish over on what the hell's is
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: in June. I'm sorry, confused people. It was just like
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a skirmish going on in oh Man,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: my ancestors went down the old George Johnson Henderson's represented
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: on that Fateful Day anniversary. Do you think they had
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: an idea what was what they were getting into. Well,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happened a long time ago. You
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: know what really threw me for a loop last night? Seth?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: What's that? Uh? You know how you and Chester think
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you're all the ship on catching walleyes. I was going
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: fish for fish. I was going fish for fish with
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Chester last night. Well, he's probably, which makes me feel
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: like I could be like no, no, it makes me
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: feel like I could like be in there the tournament.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: What we need to do is get to boats, two boats,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you and someone else, Me and Chester, and that's how
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: we'll figure out who the best wool I'm in is.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you guys limit out? We limited out
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: on our top end fish, yeah, meaning we got one
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: when we do this tournament. Yeah, it's hard to limit
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: out on the low end fish or something like that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: When we do this head to a tournament though, Prior
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to we need to go through Seth and Chester's boat
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and divvy up all the good ship so we're on
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: equal footing. In my boat, when I went fish for
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: fish with Chester, my neighbor got a goose egg. Oh
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: he did? It was rough. I heard you were getting
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: him on plastics some where. Did you hear that from
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Steve's not into sharing tournament ticks. I heard that from
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: from Chester. I got my first one. I leach I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: was drowning. Oh yeah, my talk Chester, my barrel leeches
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that I gave Chester to take along with him. Uh,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: real quick speaking to Chester and weddings. When I get
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to Chester's house to pick him up, it's like a
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: chaos at his house because his wedding ring fell out
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of the diamond fell out of the ring onto a
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: gravel driveway. We sat on our knees for probably fifteen minutes.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: He had it kind of down to like a circle
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: about a yard wide, and he knew like what should
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: be the center of the circle. And we spent about
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes removing pieces of gravel one at a time
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: out of that circle. And then Chester he's like, we
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: should probably go fishing if you want to stay and
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: look for this diamond. I'll stay and look for the
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: diamond out care And he's like, now we'll go fishing.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, you should look up on the internet
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: how to find a diamond in the gravel. Um. I
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: told him just to search where is my diamond? But
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I messaged Danielle and told her to go out at
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: night with a headlamp. Well that's Chester learned. So Chester
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: was waiting. He was gonna go when we got back.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: He was gonna go out with a light and spend
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: his night looking for the thing. But then Danielle came back,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: his wife came back and got some other friend to look,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and he got a really bright light and was able
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to find the diamond. And he found the diamond in
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: areas that we had cleared. We declared it like, we
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: went out and ever expanding gravel removal circle, and the
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: diamond was within what we had cleared out, you know, searched,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: so to speak. Can we hit leech is real quick? Yeah?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I was talking leech trapping with Steve. I would talk
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: with Jay Siemens about leech trapping. Well I did, I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: just watched his YouTube videos. I don't think you're in
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a good spot though, I think you're in a stupid area. No. Well,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: according to the wide world of Internet, that seems like
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: as good as spot as a lot. I'm gonna I'm
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: gonna bounce around and look where my kids get leeches
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: on them when they swim. Yeah, I got a spot
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: for you because I we waited in there for all
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: of three minutes and came out with five leeches. Stuff.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I like that, and my kids got But I mean,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you guys do understand that the spot I hit is
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: about half a mile from my house and the spot
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: that you guys are talking about. So I'd like to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: start at the center and you could order five pounds
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: of leeches for what it would require to go around
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the three forks. That just gives them away. But I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: mean that's where my spot is. Well, this guy look
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: for bucks. You get more leeches than you use off
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the summer. It's fifty bucks a pound. Those are the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: leeches that you're in gold dudes like morel The leeches
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: you're using last night were from him. Um, he gets
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: from Minnesota. So you just chucking in a chunk old
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: meat or something every once in a while to keep
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: these things alive? Are you trying to keep them all
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: still live for months? With that? Yeah? They live. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: just keep the water yet flushing the water. He's gunk
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: up your water. Leach keepers do put like something in there.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what. I don't know. Let me you know,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I don't know how to catch
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: them real quick. My dad when my dad's best bodies
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: was a guy named Ron Spring, and he owned Springs
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Sporting Goods and later he sold Spring Sporting Goods, but
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: he remained. Uh. He was a commercial bait fisherman, so
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: he got commercial fisherman right. But he was a commercial
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: fisherman that caught fishing bait. And he he had a
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: team of people that tide flies. He had a team
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of people that tide spawn sacks. He was a leech trapper,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a wiggler trapper, raised red worms, leafworms, crawlers. He did everything,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: supplied all the live bait. He got to be in
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: his early eighties and I wanted to profile him for
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a magazine. And I pitched the magazine and got the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: green light to profile him. And when I approached him
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in his eighties, he said no, because these are trade secrets. Oh,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I love that. That's awesome. I couldn't believe it. Uh.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: He ate so much fish out of the Great Lakes
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that um they would every month or everything. No, there's
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: every six months. He'd go to University of Michigan to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: do tests on heavy metal contamination and um like testing
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: his mercury and all that ship. So he'd go down
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: there and they'd give him a list. They'd be like, Okay,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you gotta go to the store, right, you need two
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: dozen eggs, two leader bottle of Coca cola, pound of butter,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: three autocadles whatever, right, and give them a list. And
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: then he'd wait a coup mists and they'd be like, Hey,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: what do you got to buy at the store. And
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that was like the kind of ship they were testing
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: with them. And he told me, and I'll quote him,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: he said, Steve, I wouldn't remembered that list if I
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: never ate a piece of fish at all. So he
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: felt like it was biased. But I'd be like, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you don't know, Uh, I want to get out on
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: this podcast though. It was I built my leech trap. Oh,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: went out to a spot nobody has any business of
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: going into, threw my lead trap out and somebody came by.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: There are a couple of people watch him. They sabotaged it. Yeah,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: they cut my line, which is really stupid because they
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: left like, I used an old line spool and put
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: some fly line backing on there. But they think you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: were doing well. I think they were probably even more
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: confused when they took a look at a little tanfull
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: you know, old beef liver. But they left that out there.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: They left the trash out there, but they just cut
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the line and then took like the sectional line attached
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to the reel. So anyway, you left the whole reel
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: out there? Well, yeah, because I had a line. Oh
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: you're gonna reel it in? Yes, yeah, because you know
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: it's all bogged. Don't gotta worry about the thing all
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: tangled up and ship. Yeah, and I'm on in like
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: full flip flop mode. I'm not so they stole your
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: boots around. They just took this. I don't it's very confusing.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But no, no leeches. But they stole the real or
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: not stole the real. They all the line off the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: reel and left the reel. Yeah, got such a like
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: finicky thief. Well again, I think they've probably had an
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: idea what was happening in their in their mind thought
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: you had a set line. Maybe I don't know. Yeah,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: not a single leach, not a single leach. But I'm
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: gonna keep broadcasting out from from home here. So you
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: get ready to turn you onto a hotspot man, people
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: of Bozeman. You find something soaking in a local settling
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: pond around here. It's not don't touch it, or we
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: get one of those people that can speak to the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: dead and we to go talk to Ron Spring. Yeah,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: that'd be a Korean start setting that up, all right,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: The first meat Eator Medium podcast. It's a great space
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: for a seance. Honestly, I gotta tell you a horrible
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: story about Ron Spring real quick. Um, well, my greatest
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: moments a shame. We're fishing. My dad called a big
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: northern and it was real cold out and it froze,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and so later my dad said, hey, do you want
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to catch a big northern? And I was like yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So he threw me the big northern and I caught it,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and I told Ron Spring I caught a bit whatever
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the hell inch northern And it felt so bad. I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: later called him back and said I didn't actually catch it,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: like he thought that a little that was my birthday?
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Was my birthday? Uh a black bear. This is a
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: crazy a story reported by her friends at USA Today.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I was so pissed. I texted Spencer this morning, was like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: how does the USA Today know about this? And we
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: don't know about it? He's like, because they got four
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: thousand reporters a black bear and what's date was this? Tennessee?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: A black guy, Okay, a black bear gets a closed
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: car open, Yeah, which is not a usual? What is
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the usual? What happens next? It's a hot ass day.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: He gets the door open, gets in the car and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: starts eating scraps, but the door closes behind him. It
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: gets up to a hundred degrees that day and kills
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the bear inside the forty degrees in the car, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the bear died inside the car of heat, like what
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: happens to people's dogs. And the weird part is then
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the Fish and Game Agency uses it as a chance
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for people to to not leave bear attract And so
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, there's some ship in your
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: car which is closed. Counts is leaving bear attract and self, yeah,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you'd have to keep your car. My truck is littered
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: with bear attracted from all the crumbs and ship. My
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: kids leave everybody's cars. I just don't count that. I
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: don't count like your car and your driveway closed as
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: being like being not bear safe. You have to run
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a pretty sterile car. But I get the sentiment they
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: think the thing got in there. This is weird. He
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: was in his car at ten am and he found
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the bear dead at seven pm, middle of the damn day. Yeah,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: ambient temperature. There's a picture of the bear kind of limp. Yeah,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: another baby. I mean it's like every other days when
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: we get to Seth in a minute, here he'll be
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: able to speak to this. Not you, Seth Morris Seth.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Canada's gonna be a confusing podcast. It seems like every
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: other day this happens. A minor, a gold miner and Yukon,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the Yukon Territory of Canada found a thirty five thousand
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: year old mummified baby wool mammoth. That thing is so
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that is bad ass with the big snout. What do
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: they call that? A proboscis? Is that called? They named
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: him none? None child hut long. I mean it looks
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: just like a little amaciated baby mammoth laid out on
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: a blue tart. Yeah, like everything else. When people find
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: something to far north, there's a high likelihood it will
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: wind up laying on a blue tart across anything like that. Um,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you guys are making me laugh because years ago I
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: started calling myself, you know, part part of the blue
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: tarp tribe. We lived along with South Tent City along
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the edge of the cot Spy. There's North Tent City
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: in South Tent City. But we discovered blue tarps. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: think this is about thirty years ago. And take four
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: pieces of plywood and nailm together and um put a
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: blue tarp over. The only thing is that you look
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: funny because the light um, you know, under a blue
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: tarp And so anyway, we're the people of the blue
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: tarp um. Which but speaking of mammoth, uh, I brought
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Karin a little chunk of mammoth ivory. I told her
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: be careful because very addictive searching for ivory. You just
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: that's choke of a manoth tusk. Yeah, that's blue. Is
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Vivian night. It's a mineral that sort of deposits into
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the soaks, into the ivory. And so it's every time
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you find a piece of ivory, it's different color, either
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: real dark or brown. Or you didn't saying that? Did
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you not at all know? It? Um like feels like polished.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Where do you find something like that a long river? Um? Well,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it's getting complicated nowadays because I think the state no
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: longer once you picking it up in the in the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: feds don't and um on native land. You you know,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: if you're not native, you're you're not supposed to. It's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it's more, it's more complicated. I don't know the laws
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: about you know, mean high water, you know, sea level
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: along the shores. But people go along the shores looking
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and um, um it's very common to find uh. I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: shouldn't say very common. You hear, oh, so and so
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: found h seven foot tusk or or whatever. And I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: was on the coast looking and somebody just found a tusk.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And um. I was searching the smelting permafrost bluff and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: came across this big round thing that I chipped out,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and it was a turd, um, mammoth turd. And so
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I save myself by saying, I don't need the tusk.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Everybody finds tusks. It's not very many people find mammoth turds.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: And um. So I carried it around it as a
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: black for a while. Um, and then uh sent it
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to the university. They never thanked me for my ship.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: It was super disturbing. I never did hear back. But
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: um anyway, yeah, searching for mammoth I was super super addictive.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: We find these big molers. Those are pretty common to find.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Should have brought a picture of one of those. But yeah,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it's really fun. They say this, this one was the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: best one found on the continent yet and it had
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: its last meal still in stomach. I guess what it
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: was eating, Yanni, mm hm, circus peanuts is eating grass.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Nebraska is introducing a uh you can read about this
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: at the medior dot com conservation. Wildlife Management. Nebraska introduces
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: controversial July elk season. Damn crop damage. Better have the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: freezer ready, people. Yeah, people are bent out of shape.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Other people are not because they're just sick of losing
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: corn crops shooting them in land. They're they're working with
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: landowners to lower elker words and crop land areas. Colorado
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: used to have a spring summer crop damage hunt. The
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: elk are spending the elk are spending their summer in
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the cornfields, not not dispersing until the corn is picked.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: It's private land only hunt. Um. Even landowners have to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: pay like ten or five bucks to get get a
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: depredation tag and then uh, it's open to residents and
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: non residents. Um. But you need to have prior permission
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: from a landowner in the areas that they're carrying on
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the hunt in order to purchase a tag. I mean,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: am I rot and maybe you know cow like it
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: seems like this is a part of the state where
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: they don't even really want a bunch of elk running
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: around in the first place, and that that's typically how
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: you know, like the good folks at our m EF
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: can can tell you, like when they go in, when
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I used to go in and do reintroductions of elk,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: it is there's a very serious plan in place, like
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: these things. We want them to stay in between these
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: highways in this type of habitat because they're they're planning
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: ahead for this type of conflict. I think there's only
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: about three thousand elk in the in the whole state.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: And you know, a July hunt with cows carrying calves
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: and a little soft horned bowls running around isn't as much, Uh,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: isn't very romantic compared to the way we all want
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to picture hunting milk. U. But this can be effective
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: for the folks are catering to here. Is it going
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to be too effective? I think that's what some audience
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: members were kind of nervous about. Yeah, well that's I
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: mean that's like the great thing is that when it
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: gets in any of the stuff with like, well there's
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: too many, like according to who, right, Yeah, I wait
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: my whole life to you know whatever. Some person in
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Nebraska be like, I've waited my whole life to hunt
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: elk Nebraska. It's native elk range. He thinks it's too
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: many because they're getting in his corner. I don't think
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: there's nearly enough. So it's like you're always gonna have that, right,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Like according to who, car insurance companies, crop insurance people,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the ornamental uh landscape industry, hoof, and people that don't
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: want lime disease we're talking about I mean before the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: podcast too. It's there's all just as Steve's pointing out,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of different stakeholders, and the really one of
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the few stakeholders that I actually care about are the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: folks who were like farming that ground. Well, you know,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: during this huge period of elk being non existent, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: now somebody decided to put elk out there that are
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: causing significant damage to the way they're making a living,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: and their whole business is based around or you know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: it was based with the idea of this type of
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: competition not being part of the business plan. And so
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I do have some sympathy sympathy for those people that
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now here's this big X factor
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: that is growing like crazy on the landscape. Yeah, it
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: probably seems like pretty academic when you point out to
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: him that they used to be here, like define used
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to then we're here in my grandpa like to first
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: turn the ground over, right, So what's used to me?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeph Down there on the river they're pulling um uh
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: musk ox out of the river bank. They used to
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: be here. Sorry. Uh. One last thing be where we
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: get back into our esteemed guests. Broady, he's got a report.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about hippie, Steve Dude, listen. I
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: like definition, though, well, when did the hippie ever do
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: anything bad to me? I don't know, never to some
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: people like if I could pick it and have it
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: be that most of the world was hippies, I like,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I don't find they don't like to hunt, generally speaking,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: like I like when I wake up in the morning.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: When I wake up in the morning, the last thing
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I'm on the lookout for is hippies. My buddy in
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: grade school, I had a shirt that you'd wear all
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the time that said hippie smell. And he was always
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: very quick to point out that the shirt doesn't say
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: how they smell. Uh, my daughter, I don't know if
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: you know this, but Gilligan's Island hats are in style
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: for little kids, little girls, a little bucket hat. I
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: call him Gilligan hats. Now I call my daughter Gilligan.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Which pistols are off? I called her Clyde. I used
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to call her slim and I called her Clyde. Now
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: it's Gilligan. But hers has a ammunitem ascaria like the
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: flying Garrick's hallucin and it's got that little hallucigenic jungle
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: frog on I was like, you know, your hat's got
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: twin hallucigenics on it. She's know what hallucigenic is? Shut up, dad,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. Who got that for? She bought it on
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Amazon because yeah, because she's like, I thought it was
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: like a frog in them. It's like a Gilligan's Island hat.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: And she thought it was a frog in a mushroom.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And I said, you know what that mushroom is like
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that frog are She's on Amazon like a like an
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: eight dollar Gilligan's Island hat. I saw a T shirt
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: with those mushrooms on the really big ones on the
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: covering the whole back, and it said make America giggle again.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Now this is when hippies come for you. Well, yeah,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I got the dog people. Now the hippies are gonna
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: come for me. Um. There's a particular brand of hippie
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: called the Rainbow Family, Family of of being Light. They've
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: been around since Um. I used to live in Boulder.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: We see these people all the time panhandling. Um. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: this group of people has what's called a range. You
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: know that they were from this group because they have
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: rainbow Yeah you just have you ever lived in a
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: state that was having a rainbow gathering going on? I know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: but Rony just said, I lived in Bolder and I'd
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: see them all the time. There's a residual effect. They're
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: there months before the gathering and then it takes a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: month to disperse. It's a huge deal when the rainbow
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: gathering comes to town. Right, there's like a group that's
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: all the Rainbow children and Boulder that were like it
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: was like a known group of people. Anyway, they have
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: this deal every year where they called a rainbow gathering
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: where they get together on public land and it's generally
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: thousands of people. UM. This year's gathering was planned for
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Adams Park, which is north Esteemboat Springs on the Medicine
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Bow Route National Force UM, and they're thinking up to
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: ten thousand people will gather, not just people rainbow people.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Sounds like a care bear countdown. And uh, there's been
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: like an increasing concern about what kind of impact this
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: is going to have on public lank. They when they
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: did it near Missoula, Man, it was like a bio
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: has yeah yeah, and this is like an area that's
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: an important calving ground. UM. It's like very pristine public land.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And so there's been calls to uh kind of shut
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: this thing down. And generally speaking, when you have like
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: an organized event on public land, you need a permit
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: for it. And that's never like the Rainbow Gathering has
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: never been a permitted, like sanctioned event. UM. And the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Four Service took the step of closing Cow California Park,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: which is near Adams Park where the event is going
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: to happen. I'm not sure why they didn't close Adams
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Park where the event is happening, but they did shut
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: down an area near the gathering, and there's already been
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: some arrests, like people are already gathering there that the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: event hasn't taken place yet. It will have happened by
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the time this this podcast airs, but there's already been
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: arrest for various things. Um, let's see here. I appeal
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: logs with a dude named Barefoot, and he'd go to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the Rainbow gathering every year and he carried around when
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: he went there. Well, he always carried it around. He
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: carried around a black powder pistol revolver. It. It doesn't
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: surprise me. They've already had rest for damage the natural resources,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: interoperable equipment, and ardocotics possession or distribution, aggravated assault on
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: a peace officer, felony possession of a firearm. So it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like very hippie ish to me. Well, here's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the deal man, here's what you know. Why you know
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: how dog people don't like you even though you're a
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: dog person. You won't get feedback because the hippies aren't touchy.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know, they're not touchy people. I'm expecting some
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: feed now. I did this thing with Clay on Clay's
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: podcast and we were talking about how beekeepers are touchy
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: people because they all just got into it and they're
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: all in a swinging dick contest to be who's most
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: into it. And people who enthusiasts who grew up doing
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: like nothing and then they start doing something become touchy.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Hippies aren't touching. You won't get feedback from hippies, but
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: they don't do anything. You got people who live their
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: whole life not knowing about some souped up breed a
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: bird dog. And also they're like Joe bird dog, They're
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be touchy. So I say this thing about beekeepers,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and then what did I make the mistake of looking
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: at social media comments? There's a comment from this guy like,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you don't stand up for hunters. You don't stand up
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: for the Second Amendment. You don't stick up for hunter
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: because you want them all to go away so you
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: can have all the area for yourself. I click on
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: this thing, beekeeper, We'll see, we'll see. I think like
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: they should be getting a permit for this. I mean
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the amount of damage that ten thousand people can cause
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: just by walking through an area, the human waste. I've
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: seen what thirty people can do to my backyard in
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the past few days. Do you work for bass pro Shops? No?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: What is what the beast pro Shops had they send
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: They sent these to the office. Thought he walked out
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: to get married to have that is wearing a bass
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: pro Shop hat for the You ask Brodie if you
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: work for on X, if you don't know what the
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: rainbow gathering? Yes, and you want like an idea and
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: this will touch some people on our sphere and piss
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: a few folks off. If you've ever been in a
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: town where there's a three or five day fish concert,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: that that will give you a taste of folks gathering
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: preve concert and taking days to get out and they
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: have like a very very noticeable look to them. We'll
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: take those guys three to five days to do one tune.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I just want to go on record before we leave
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: this subject. I want to go on record saying this.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I support hippies because I just don't see where the
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: problem is. But I don't support the rainbow gathering on
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: national on public land. And in the old days, in
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the old days they went to a guy's farm. Yeah,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: and outside of New York City, I think should go
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: back that I don't like public land rainbow gatherings. But
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: like I said, man, when I wake up in the morning,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: the last thing I'm on the lookout for is a
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: hippie doing something to me, especially like the disenfranchised ones
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: that don't vote. I'm not worried about him doing something
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: to me because they say it's like I don't care.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Probably not good for the ECONO. They strike me as
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: people that don't listen to podcasts, so they're probably not
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: even gonna know that you're saying that. Hang out on Reddit.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: We're ready to move on, all right, Seth Canner. We're
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: gonna start out with. What are we gonna start out with?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: It's our Alaskan sampler platter. We're ready, man, are you gosh? Uh?
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: It's still I'm kind of uncomfortable with this hippie thing
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: because my parents were accused of being hippie down the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: middle of the woods. Well not at all. I think
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: they were trying to get away from people, but they were.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I think they were hippies. And none of them, those
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: people that went north with them smoked or drank or um.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: But they did, uh, I guess not cut their hair
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: as often as other people should. I should someone on
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: record saying that I got no problem with we're we're
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: talking specifically the rainbow family of living life. What do
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: you think Seth made him hippies? Yeah? Why do you
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: feel because your dad was your dad was came up
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: north as a caribou biologist, right. No, he uh was
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: born and raised in Toledo and was trying to get
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: away from Toledo and and then Catholic school, and so
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: he went to UH seventeen years old, went to the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: territory Alaska and UM and UH applied for college UM
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: and then studied UH zoology and biology. And then along
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: came Project Chariot, where they were going to bomb use
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapons Obama Harbor up in the northern part of Alaska.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So he got a job studying cariboo at that point
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: because they were like they were trying to do baseline
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: work on what that they were trying to do. What
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you should explain, like when once we get into our sampler,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: you should explain Project Chariot. I had heard of that,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: but until I read your book, I didn't really understand
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the details of it. It's some you know, right, I'm
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: fighting the Sambler Road that they want to build through
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the brooks range from the pipeline road to you know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: basically where I live, and they want to come all
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: the way across. Yeah, and I equate that as dropping
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: a bomb on the native culture and the way of
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: life in the in the wilderness country there. Um. But
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: in the fifties, uh, United States had all these nice
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: new weapons, uh, and then nobody to drop them on
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: hydrogen bombs and atomic bombs. And so they started this
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Plowshares program, which was hypothetically to do uh, peaceful work
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: with nuclear weapons. They build a canal and a new
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Panama canal or and so they decided, well, Alaska Territory
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: would be perfect place to uh, let's make a harbor
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: with five or six nuclear weapons. And that was near
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: where I grew up. I wasn't born that then, And
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: and so my dad ended up going north from you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Fairbanks where he was working as a biologists up to
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the Arctic to study the effects of radiation on caribou.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Other people were studying you know, walruses and and native
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: use of the land and food and resources there, and
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: and it was it was touching go the um this
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: this Alaska became a state nineteen fifty nine, and so
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: right in there was this giant alleged economic opportunity to
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know, get nuked. Um and uh so there's a
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: lot of people were for it, and um. Of course,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: uh the natives were not because they were about to
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: get their you know, their backyard bombed. But for a
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: while their their voices were more sort of muted and um.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: But anyway it was stopped. Um, and that didn't happen.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: It certainly would have my life would have been totally different.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Bombed northwest Alaska to make it a better place. Have
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you ever seen images of the creators they made in
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Bikinia Toll? Absolutely unbelievable. Man, it looks like the blue hole.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: And at that time that um, I'm gonna lose my
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: numbers here. But the radiation that was there was so
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: much fallout from the Americans and Soviet testing weapons that
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: that caribou were um kind of radioactive because they eat lins.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: The primary favorite food is this this lin that absorbs um.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I'm forgetting the ces M one for I can't remember
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that at this point. But anyway, one of these isotopes
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: that would leach out of the atmosphere like and would
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: absorb it and caribou, we'd eat it. And then of
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: course our whole focus was fat, so we would eat
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: tons of caribou that our bio concentrating this um this
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: radiation and um um the fat store that. Yeah. And
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: then if you have a bear, um, if a bear
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: eats the fat, then and we're all say about rendering
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: out bear fat and making you know, whatever we made
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: with the bear fat. So um um. In my young life,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the people that went north with my parents, Um, they
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: were tested and I guess they're like you're describing earlier,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: super high and uh in radiation, living out this uh
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: this semi hippie sorry, um this wilderness Uh, strange white
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: people living in the wilderness. Uh uh. We never used
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the word wilderness. We're scared of that word, but I'm
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: using it now. But um, living out off the land
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and then you know, uh, far higher than somebody in Chicago,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: probably on the glow in the dark, seemingly the most pure,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: the most pure food and most pure existence. You guys
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: didn't like the word wilderness because you didn't like federally
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: designated wilderness. Uh. In my life, as things are changing fast,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: pipeline was being built, which you know, made the Native
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Claim Settlement Act was necessary, so UM, the land up
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: there would have a title ownership. Somebody could say who
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: owned what, so then we could start tearing it up,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: um and um. At that time, living out, we just
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: thought of UM. We were people on the land. We
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: cut wood for firewood, We hunted, uh, you know, bears
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: for skins and fat or whatever, and um, and we didn't.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: It wasn't wilderness. We were there and then, and the
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: natives had no this was home. They knew you had
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: named for every slough and lake and and sandbar where
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: you caught this and that, and so it wasn't wilderness
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: in our mind. And the only time we heard that
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: word was when strange white people landed and started talking
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: about what we were not allowed to do. UM. So
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: wilderness was a dangerous word. Um and uh. At some
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: point five or ten years ago, as asked to talk about, uh,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: you know what the Wilderness Act meant to me? Of
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: course I've never heard of it, um and UM. I
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: was there with UM four tall white ladies and twice
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: as tall as me and um, and they were describing
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you know this very interesting um effects of the Wilderness Act.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, when was from Chicago. I had
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: grown up in uh, Colorado and etcetera. And and then
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: along comes my turn. I went last, you know, and
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we were I don't know, we're
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: always scared. He it was it was, you know, white
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: people coming from somewhere else, and then um terrifying us. Yeah,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: we were my family. Um speaking of hippies, Um, um,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: sorry that they did. You know, reading your book, man,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of got like a mild hippie vibe, but
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't get a total hippie vibe off your parents. Well,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: because they were like hunters and trappers. Sure, but my
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: dad has devoted his life to avoiding a steady job.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Does that count? No? Oh? Okay, um that that that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: the hippies do not in my mind we're talking about
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: it very hard to define. Tournament in my mind, planned
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: by your own rules is not owned by hippies. Okay, okay,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know any I didn't
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: know fishing talk about people who love anything you're saying
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: talking about people who um first and foremost. When looking
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: for an explanation to an unanswered question, if you told
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: him there's a conspiracy that they're like, well, that's what
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I believe before you finish the sentence. Okay, that's so.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I guess we weren't. Yeah, we weren't hippies, but it
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: was that time frame though, right, Yeah, I definitely was.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I think the people that were doing, um, they're back
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: they're part of the back of the Land, They're extreme
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: edge of the back of the Land movement. Yeah, it was.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: It was I mean, barefoot kids and living in a cave.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, so, um, I guess you I don't
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: know what to call it. It was home really nice.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: But he was But but you're old man. He's not
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: trying to just like and understanding your biography, Like I
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: don't want to go back all to Toledo, but you're
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: old man. Became like your father, right, became familiar with
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: the area that he would homestead and claim through that
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: through the caribou work, right, my mistake, Um sort of. Yeah.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: So he got done that summer working with the other battlegists,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: and he had spotted this sided glue on the coast
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: right next to the ground zero where they were gonna
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: bomb that, you know, and uh, he got his stuff
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: and went to live there for the winter. And when
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: he got there, Uh typical of you know when you
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: get home and you find a porcupine in your house
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Um there was um a native couple who
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: had decided they going to spend the winter there. And
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: so my dad was like, oh, you know, he's not
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: gonna um invade you know, their territory. It was an
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: abandoned sod house. But they were like, they couldn't really
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: speak English, but they thought, yeah, the old inn you
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: pack extreme generosity is important. And you're you're about to
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: spend the winter and h sade igloo as big as
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: your average bath room, and they said you should stay.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So along comes this white guy who's gonna sleep on
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: their floor for the winner. And and so he uh
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: spent the winter hunting for this couple. The man had
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: you know, one leg, and the woman was u uh
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: not young and and so um here's this energetic, young
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: white guy that wants to learn the old ways and
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: and um and was willing to go out every day
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: to hunt for the dogs, dog teams and the and
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the people and and so he got UM. I think
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I would just say terribly enamored with old Innu pac
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: way of life. Just the connection, the hunting every day.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Harsh life, but um simplicity, I guess, and and so um,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you know he went back to Fairbanks and and more
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: or less you know, uh got my mom and they
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: went north and build a sad iglo and started that life, um,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: which was you know, using caribou sinu for thread and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: and sewing muck lux out of uger steel, um tied
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: in caribou and um, just the old ways. We just
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: had dried fish for lunch and and seal oil and
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and uh whipped caribou fat and I could go on
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and um that was the life. You guys. When you
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: were a kid, you guys traveled by dog team day
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: you Yeah, but was that was that like a was
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: that sort of like a like a conscious decision to
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: do something in old way because you were sort of
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: like your age would have been where dog teams were
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: definitely on the way out. Absolutely. I was born in
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: nineteen and it was like dead nuts on the arrival
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: of snowmobiles, and and pretty quick into that, my dad
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: got rid of his uh his dogs, and and I
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: think it was bothering him shooting uh, you know, a
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: hundred caribou of fall for for dog food. Um. Uh,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Well that was people food and dog food, but um,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: yeah it was. And they didn't have they didn't have
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: much when they arrived, so they didn't have fish nets webbing,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: you know, to catch the very reliant Yeah, and and
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: and everybody was uh, I shouldn't say everybody. You know,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: the villagers were way ahead of my family as far
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: as catching fish. Pretty quickly we got um uh fish nets.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: And then my dad got a stone bile archaic bowlands
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: with the track in the front and a seat that
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: drugged behind on wooden skis and it was terrifying machine.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: But um and then I think we didn't have a
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: dog's again in Toil, maybe I was eight. I wanted
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: to have dogs, and so I got dogs and built
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: my own sled and started using a super small dog
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: team for uh trapping, and uh, we didn't have neighbors,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: so uh, you know, my dogs were kind of my friends.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't allowing the house or anything, but
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: um um hunting and every day and trapping and and
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: all that was you know what I did. We Uh
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: it was kind of substitute for go and senior neighbors
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: or whatever you said. So you didn't have neighbors, Um,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: how did your parents like learn all those skills? Were
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: they learning from locals or trial and error or um
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I gotta get back to the hippie thing for a minute.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: So um, during about the time I was four, a
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: bunch I think there was as many as maybe fifteen
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: or so people living in little Sadi glues around us.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: So we did have a brief time of neighbors. Um.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: These were what we call commune. Yeah. Yeah, these were
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: what we at home call white people. Um. And so
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: outsiders you refer to yourselves as white people, Um, yes, Um.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: But it's a weird mix because when I'm out on
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: the country even now with my friends, Um, if you
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: lift up your binkoclers and you're like, hey, look like
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: white people. Um, that's how I grew up. So it's
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: weird to be standing with your innu pact friends and
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: they're like, hey, you, how come there's white people over
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: there and and there's me and um, so I kind
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: of um, um, I don't know. I guess, as Sarah
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Palin would say, I shuck and jib um that I
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: don't know, Um where that fits in? But my myself
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: where I fit in? It's it's hard to uh, I mean,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I feel white outsider ish a lot. And then other
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: times I'm like, hey, I don't you know, I get
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable when I see uh this outsiders. But I really
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: want to explain that it's um, it's just sort of
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: a sloppy term, like so many other things. And part
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: of that you're talking about hippies. It says it's a
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: loose uh, you can accuse somebody of something and not
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: really be careful with it. And and so um, there's
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of comedy involved in the village. Some um
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: black guy showed up a school teacher and and the um,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the kids were calling him a honky um and uh,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: and it was just they didn't know um. And so yeah,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: I've I've been called that a ton of times, you know,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: and for you know, everything, you get called everything. But um, um,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I guess that if a person, let's just say, an
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Asian person showed up, they would be referred to as
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: white people, which is just an euphemism, a broad a
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: broad euphemism for outsider. That makes sense. So so it's
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: almost become a joke in a way. It's a sloppy term.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so I grew up um kind of a
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: weird mix of that where, um, if you know, if
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: somebody looks at you a mile way through the binoculars,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you're one thing, and then you walk over,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: oh you know you're um, you're into the your local
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: you know, and didn't recognize you. Um. That was a
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: long winded explanation of the tip of the iceberg as
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: far as race relations at home. But um, yeah, anyway,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: so my parents went north. Um, I think part of
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: that back to the land movement, but at that time
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: we're so focused on it that um uh, it's almost
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: like in the village is the inn impact population was
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: looking forward at modernity, blue jeans and plywood and and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: whatever else in my family was you know, actively looking
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: back and and saying, oh, yeah, we'll stick with kerosene
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: lamps or or um. Were you guys regarded by Native
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Alaskans as like did they sort of like recognize the
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: movement your family was part of. Was there enough of
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: that going on that they're like, oh, there's these white
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: people showing up on the landscape trying to sort of
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: like act like how we lived years ago. Yeah, things
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: are complicated. I want to catch you for a second, because, uh,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you said something about your family went there and claimed
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: homestead and all that. My parents didn't claim the land
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: because they wanted to be like natives. The natives didn't
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: have ownership of land. Um. And so my parents actively
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: didn't claim the land, which was a huge mistake, but
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: they didn't. And then very quickly that that ended. Um
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: and uh. And then they found out their mistake because
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: we're on the BLM burn list and they were gonna
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: come if they could get our sod iglu to burn,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: which is doubtful because it was sort of damp, but um,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: they were burning people's cabins out at that time. And um,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: these hippie squatters. Um. So I've never owned the land.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Um and and and now I'm I think I'm the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: last person in Alaska who has a National Park Service
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: permit to reside where I was born and raised. Which
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: is some writer that I think Senator Ted Stevens put
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: into a NILKA the Native Claim Settlement Act. Um. So
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: your daughter will lose, yeah, that's the idea, yeah, which
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: is is not does lose at home? Yeah, um, which
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: is home to her too. And and then you know
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: to get back to really if you die, they destroy it. Uh. Yeah,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: that's the idea. Yeah, I think I'm supposed to when
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: I'm about ninety, I'm supposed to destroy it before I die,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: so like your last act before you die. Well that's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: why I'm always picking my trash. Otherwise I just leave
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: it on the ground. No, kid, really, I didn't realize
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: that you guys didn't do I just I don't know
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: why I assumed that they did the homes toad because
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: then I noticed that, like you still hang out there
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and your daughter hangs out there, and yeah, I just
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I just spent a break up there, but
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you know, not very long before before coming here. You know,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: never saw a person the whole time. And it's in
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it's like the um. You know,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: it hasn't changed that much. You know, my companions are
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: in Cariboo and bears walking around, et cetera. But um,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: then in other ways, there's a lot of you know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: um land claims and permits and rules Alaska. You probably
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: know this, but it's real weird that way um up
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: there in the Arctic. Uh, there's a ton of rules
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: written on paper about that land. But the paper is
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: far away somewhere else, and we don't know anything about
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: it and kind of do what we used to do. Question.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask that did your family when
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: you were younger, did they have like interactions or run
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: ins with federal officials like trying to get you to Yeah,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: that was yeah, the blm uh first, but then more
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: of that was the precursor to the National Park Service.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Was was showing up and pretty terrifying. You know, plane
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: land on the ice and these big white guys walk
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: up the hill and start telling us that basically we
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: were you know, might have to move. And that's what
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I grew up with. Lots of like fear of the parks. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: fear of yeah, lots of things. But um, but I
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: would say that the natives had that too, I mean
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: they did. Is that, um, you've got thousands of years
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: is living on the land here and then and then
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: the plane comes and they say what you can't and
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: can't do? And it just all sounds very confusing until
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: the plane flies away and then it's not confusing anymore.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: What okay, when you mentioned when you when you when
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: you were young and you guys are living off caribou
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: and you had a dog team, Uh, was there a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: regulatory structure in place at all, Like if a family
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: is going through a hundred caribou, I mean you're not
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: out putting metal locking tags on the things. Like was
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: there any sort of regulatory structure in place that you
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: were aware of in those days? Okay, so me, I
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: was a little kid, you know, just chewing on a
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: bone or something. So now I wasn't aware. Um, my
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: dad may or may not have gotten a hunting license.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I assume he would try, but I don't know how
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: you'd go about it because Juno is, you know, about
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: as close as Miami. Um, local people certainly didn't get
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: hunting licenses, and it was, um just such a weird
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: idea that you'd have to get a license to hunt.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to come up with an analogy, but um,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: no I understand the analogy. What I'm I'm asking like
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: a very buying. I'm asking like a very like I'm
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: not talking about pertate of Alaska. Have some I said,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: had I gone, had I gone to Juno? And I
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: had said, and I had said, I'm living where you.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Let's say you had gone, your dad had gone to Juno.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, what was whether it was regarded or not regarded,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: and I'm not like saying that it should have been.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I can't answer that real easy. I have no idea. Okay,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: uh no, I think, Um, yes, there was game management
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: units already set up, I think. And and if you
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: went down to the forty mile herd or something, there
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: was probably a bag limits and and more accessible. Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: And everybody was supposed to get a a hunting license.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: And I think as a so called outsider or whatever,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: if you had flown to the northwest Arctic, you probably
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: would have had a limit of such and such amount
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: of cariboo locally, I don't think there was limits. I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: think you could. You could choot cows, calves, bowls, as
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: many as you want it. Um. And And then when
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: in the seventies when they had a photo census where
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: they fly over and the caribou aggregate in the middle
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: of July, where there's some at times, you know, a
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand or more in a in a tight mass,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: they would take pictures of those. You count the cariboo
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: in the picture. That's the short version of the photo census.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: And um, in the seventies they came up with this
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: very very low number of I'm gonna say, seventy five
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: thousand caribou for the Western art occurred and they promptly
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: cut us from unlimited to one per hunter per year. Yeah,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: which was in my book. I use this uh analogy
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: of like you'd be allowed one blueberry, um, so you've
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you've always picked blueberries and then suddenly you're
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: only allowed one um and um and people were you know,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: terrified and confused and um. And then we that at
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: that point we were ish. We not me as a kid,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: but my dad was issued this little locking silver thing
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: which was very uh fancy, nice piece of metal with
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: some numbers on it. But people didn't always click that
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: thing together because you needed to carry when you got
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: your next caribou. Um and UM. Yeah, I think this.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, there's lots of different ways of seeing things.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: But I suspect the the state of Alaska miss some
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: cariboo in their photo census. And I also suspect that
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: at that time, with the introduction of um, you know
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: more uh many fourteens and and and not too long
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: after that Air fifteen with rapid shooting uh small caliber bullets,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: and then stomobiles had just derived, which was changed you know,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: our our relationship immensely with the with the natural world,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: like you didn't need to wait for caribou to come
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, yeah, and go further and faster. And
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: so I suspect there was two things going on. There
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: was that the cariboo were dropping in numbers, and the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: statement might have missed some, but it was a good
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: time to wake up and say, okay, maybe we need
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: to um not just shoot every cariboo we feel like
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: at all times, all seasons, you know. So it was
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: just a little rough the way it went about you
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: fish commercially? Now, yeah, does what is the fishing you
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: described when you're when you when your family was living
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: out in the land, you described a need to get
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: like like learning how to get nets and fish. What
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: was that fishing? And then what does the fishing you
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: do now? Oh? Interesting? Yeah, so um um, I say,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: you know, when we get done commercial fish and we
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: go back up river and immediately set all our nets
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: for for a non commercial But um my dad and
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: um mom, I guess fished out of cots Abue in
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: the late fifties, I think it was or nineteen sixty,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: right around then, and there was a canary. Um, I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: think you got the thirty five cents of fish and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: they made a hundred dollars for the season or something,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: and so people kind of discovered fishing was it was
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: real hard to get cash. Then it was either whitefish
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: or in salm salmon, and so they didn't fish for
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: another twelve years in that fishery went up. You know,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: we lived up the river, up the Kobuk River, which
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: is like a hundred and fifty river miles from from
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Cotsebue where the fishery is. So they never fished again
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: until I think nineteen seventy four. My dad built applywood
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: boat and we went down and lived in a tan
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: and fished uh ninety four and and they grossed like
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: four thousand dollars or something, which we had never heard
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: of that much money before. Um he built he built
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: the boat up yeah yeah, in Ambler or near the
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: village of Ambler, and ordered marine plywood and et cetera,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: and then then took the boat down river, down the river.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: He has uh maybe two hundred miles down the river
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: and across Kobac like camp the camp ten miles across
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: from cotsbu at a fish camp, and and back then
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: if you wanted green American cash. There weren't too many
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: ways of getting it, and commercial fishing was one. Fishing
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: was becoming. Uh the price was great then it was
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: like fifty cents a pound for salmon, which is it's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: not even That's about where we're at today. And you
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: guys using like drift gillnets, uh, set nets, hang your
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: own nets and um and set we were allowed nine
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: feet of it. And you guys were sitting here talking
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: about fishing earlier, and I didn't understand it. Gosh starn
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: thing you were saying nothing. Um, but my idea of
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: sport fishing is to set six or nine feet of
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I'm joking about the sport. But I love commercial fishing
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: and super exciting and especially when the fish are hitting,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: but set and that effective. Um. Yeah, So when your
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: parents were commercial fishing, were they doing it themselves? Are
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: working for no? Okay? So I didn't answer either one
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: of your questions, but so we would. We started doing
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: that as a as a way to trap in the winner.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: My dad would make a dog sledge or some um
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: sleds that people towed behind their snowmobiles, sort of like
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: a dog sled for cash. And then the summer we
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: go down and commercial fish for for cash, and it
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: was all pretty feeble, but would end up with you know,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: some actual money. But they're running their own operations. Yeah,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: everybody's doing their own things small super small boats. And
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: then uh, come late August, we would put the dogs
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: and the family and the tents and head up river.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: And my dad's boat was like four ft long, thirty
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: five horse. Three days a holding the tiller to get
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: home and then unload the dogs. And then we would
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: spend the next eleven or ten and a half months
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: at our house, pretty much staying home because he didn't
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: want to you know, buy gas and and travel. We
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: would go to Ambler, that closest village five miles away,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: but we would go oh once or twice a winner,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: and you know, once or twice by boat, and and
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: so they're at home. Uh, back to your original question.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: As soon as we got home, we put nets out
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: and started once again gathering fish and um. Yeah, and
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: then at that point cariboo would be crossing, so we
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: would get a couple uh to eat and dry and whatever.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: You just oh, if there's cariboo, well we need food.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: But we would kind of hold off on the winter
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: supply of cariboo until late September when it's cold enough,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: because we didn't have electricity, so we didn't have freezer.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: So everything had to line up with the season and
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: every even every season, and about hunting different things when
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: they're fat, when they taste good, when the fur is good,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: and then when you can keep it. And there's just
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: really no use in boating home on August shooting a
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: bunch of caribou because their flies were out and it
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: was too warm. And what was the you guys do
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: at home? You do whitefish or salmon or what. Along
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: the river there is grailing trout, trout which would be
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Arctic char, salmon, she fish, pike, mud shark which is
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: a bourbon like you guess called mud sharks. That's a
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: great name. Yeah, I don't know, I got it's a
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: very confusing fish names. Yeah. Well, at home we call
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: them ticktalic, which is that's the innu pack word, and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of ticktalic. You can find it in
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: my book. And so I have a hobby of collect
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: bourbon names. Oh yeah, oh, well, there's such a great fish.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I love hooking them. We hook them through the ice
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: in October and at night, lay on a caribou hide
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: and look slowly freeze ass as you When I when
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I told someone I have a brother, that I have
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: a brother lives in anchors. When I told him that
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: you were coming to do a show, and he said,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: if you can get he told me, if you can
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: get one thing out of this, you need to get
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: out of this. An invitation to fish. She fish through
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: the ice? Oh yeah, absolutely. It was like he was
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: like strongly encouraging me to lean on you for that opportunity.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: He just did that, like, yeah, I just said a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: net to bring her a fish. I guess maybe I
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: should have brought you, but I assumed you had already.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: He know, he wants you. He wants me to make
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: you take me rotting and reeling for she fish through
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: the ice. Well, we just used a stick with the line.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. The open water she
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: fish is like he fishes those I mean, washing him,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: jumping stuff. But he thinks that the the epitome she
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: They're not in it for this, the epitome of she fishing.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: He likes she fish, all right, but the epitome of
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: shea fishing would be she fish through the ice. I
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: guess I kind of agree. I have a hard time
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: with the hook and line thing that you cast and
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: tangles up and then I don't know, man, Yeah, I know,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: hold on a second, somebody takes your hook or hooks
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: on it. Well, I just it's all. I was listening
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: to you guys, and I know it's fun. We used
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: to do it, but I'm not good at it. But
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: hooking through the ice, to me, makes more sense because
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you've got a stronger line and you got you got
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: to make sure the hole is big enough otherwise you
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: can't get it. Yeah, they get up to what like
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: sixty pounds or bigger maybe I don't know. I don't
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: weigh things or stuff like that, but they're big. Yeah.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Sure you a picture here afterwards. But how many feet
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: long is a big shea fish? Probably four out of
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: at all whitefish man white fish family, I think, I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, at all those different fish that your
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: family would catch and late summer, what was your favorite?
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: What we really liked? What we called trout, and it's
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: Arctic char. At that time, we didn't know that, and
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: we called them either a mean trout or a nice trout.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Um and the mean trout is when it spawned out,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of bright right right, and long and
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: skinny and of course back to fat, which is very important.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't fat, it was you know, dog food. Um.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: And so the mean trout were skinny and we thought
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: they were different trout and it turned out they're not.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: They're just they go for eighteen months without eating and
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: all and stuff and and trout or arctics are amazing.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: But like I think it pretty much is. But you
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: have to check with the run um. Well, we're gonna
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: lose track of this whole show if you start talking
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: about it. You got a question for you. The fish,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: the varieties of fish you would net in August, You
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: were able to dry those fish? Yeah, we start trying
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: to dry. It was hard because we were not yet
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: people of the Blue tart Um, which is really import Yeah,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: we always had fish tracks, but but trying to cover
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: them and what to cover them with. But is that
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: because the blue tart wasn't around yet. It wasn't around yet.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Everything was pretty It's it's shocking to think about how
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: different it is with all this the ship we have nowadays,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: like plastic bags. Well, where you going to get those
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: fifty years ago. And and that brings me to a
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: question too about and sorry to regress a little bit,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: but about your dad deciding at some point he decided
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: to try to make some American cash. Yeah, so it
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: was like a dilemma for him. No, he wasn't he
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: didn't have it wasn't a hippie in the sense that
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: he didn't want cash. He just didn't want a job. Um.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: And to him, a job separates you from life. He
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to live and be out on the land and stuff.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: And so if uh, you know, when links became very valuable,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: we trapped links. Um Uh. He didn't like bothering the
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: wolves much, which was a personal thing, maybe because they
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: were hunting much like he was, you know, walking a
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: lot and out on the land every day. But um,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: we trapped wolverine and and when foxes, when they first
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: got their foxes were worth nothing. And then as an
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: eight year old, I trapped some foxes and sent them
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: to gosh was it called Goldberg's. I'm trying to remember now,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: But anyway, we went of the fur buyers and I
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: got like sixty ninety bucks apiece, and my whole family
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: took notice's we trapped foxes for the next because the
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: guys needed money to buy gas or tools or whatever.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: It wasn't put it in the bank. Yeah, yeah. It
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: was crazy. Thing was we um, I mean we made
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: our own dog collars and harnesses and sleds and tow
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: lines and we anything that was what we called store
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: bought very suspicious and the family had to have a
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: big discussion about whether you're gonna spend any money, which
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: was the final answer was no, so you might as
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: well not have the discussion. But but they did order,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: um um, they did order stuff. It was real long
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: process to you know, basically get to the village, take
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: an envelope and mail it to you. Probably, I mean
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: probably you guys probably bought a stove, cookwere white gas, yeah,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: white gas for sure, kerosene um, and you know, coffee
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: and sugar and flour. And then as the years went
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: by and we started commercial fishing and had money, uh,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: you know, they'd order potatoes from Palmer, Alaska, and we
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: we plan a garden so we'd grow that potatoes also.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: But then uh vanilla for you know, making snow ice
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: cream and powdered milk, and we just more and more
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: stuff but but nothing like just walking in the store
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: and filling your shopping cart. My parents were pretty much like, um,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: don't waste was well, they were you know, they were
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: depressionary era people. They grew up in uh my dad,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the Depression and World
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: War two. Um, and so there was already that pretty
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: strong don't waste. And then you go far enough north
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: and trying to get up a pound of butter was
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: complex experience. And so as kids, which you if your
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: hippies indoctrinating your kids out in the wilderness so called wilderness,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: you can um tell them, oh, don't use that, don't
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: use that, and don't cut string, and no you're not
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: allowed to use any nails. But if you find a
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: bad one, we'll discuss whether you're allowed to have it.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Um um so um. Yeah. It was a lot of
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: everything was sort of in this don't waste. But you
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: certainly were caribou hides that wasn't in the uh you
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: use those for whatever you want. That was your blue target.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was yeah. Well yeah, so anything you want
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: to do with the caribou hide was pretty much open season.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: And your book, I'm surprised by the amount of Um,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: this is gonna segue into you're given us some of
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: that food you got there. But the amount of boiled
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: meat you guys eat boiled joints and boiled feet and
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: like a lot of boiled meat. Not a lot of
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: deep frying going on. No, yeah, there was a lot
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: of and uh, you know the local thing is like
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: caribou soup is is just a standard as his. He
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: catch a trout at home, you give it to an elder.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: They're gonna make soup out of it, with the skin
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: on and all the bones and stuff, and and certain
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: people are like, cool, that's not what I would have
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: done with that fish. But um, but um, yeah, maybe
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that was a certain amount of ease. Or you've got
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: the witch dove going and you talk about the waist.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: So because like you guys described taking sort of like
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: carribout pelvis is oh, and just put that pelvis into
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: pot and boil it until he could. Oh, I'm getting
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: ready in salt white people, I can't believe at home
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: if you leave the bones, well, let's just back up here.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: At home, we look at the rear end of the
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: animal caribou to see if it's fat, and we kind
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: of joked that the white guy or the outsiders are
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: looking at the antlers. Well, we're not looking at the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: antlers where it's got to be fat. And then, um,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: the fat is you know, maybe back fat or or
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: stomach fat or whatever a chark, you know, the lacey
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: fat around the intestines. But um, the bones are where
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: the flavor and the fat is. And so there's just
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: so many stories of um, you know, some old innu
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: pack elderly woman just disgusted with her daughter bringing home
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: a white boyfriend and he goes out hunting and brings
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: home the antlers and they're just like, you know, what's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: wrong with this guy? And then um, and then the
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: other sort of standard story is, um, this outsider handing
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: elders or somebody respected handing them a chunk of meat
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: without a bone. You know, how come that guy show
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: stingy Um. Yeah, yeah, we think about that. You're gonna
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: bring someone something nice, You're gonna bring him a backstrap.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: You just try to keep the moose is knee. But seriously,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, now I cook a lot with a not
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: suit but a Dutch shoven with you know, put some
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: oil in it. It's here the knee real quick is
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: your fuel mostly would to make heat into not anymore. No,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, propane is an amazing thing. Nowadays everything has changed.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: You know. I have a place in Cotspy with electricity,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: so I have freezers there. So when I come down
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: from upriver, uh, where I don't have any of that,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: I'll bring meat and starting a freezer and sharing meat
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: and a freezer. I don't know if you guys know
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: about this is amazing. Well, I want to talk to
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: a guy that he uh, he's actually a friend of
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: mine and for his graduate work he was doing, um,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: he was doing sort of this hundred years survey of
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: of hunting magazines, and one of the things that he
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: really took note of is just the way the conversation
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: changed when freezers became a thing. I mean, it just changed.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: It changed everything about people's perspectives on deer hunting. Um,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: once every Joe Blow on the planet had a freezer
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: in his house, because like the whole like filling the freezer,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: that's like a new like relatively speaking, that's a new concept. Right.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: It would be that you got a deer and you
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: had to figure out what you're gonna do with that deer.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Right now, absolutely. And I really value living seasonally, so
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home and start commercial fishing, which means
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: that I bring home a seal bit salmon that you
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: can't sell, you know, seals are working them. And so
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I eat salmon like all summer, but come August, and
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: of August, people are like, oh, how many salmon do
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: you put in your freezer? I'm like one, And even
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: then I started begrudgate because it's not going to be fresh,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: and uh and I'm kind of sick of salmon by then, anyway,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: and then heading up river hoping to you know, start
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: eating caribou and then um and whatever else and uh.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: And I like that seasonal connection to your food and
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: and so a freezer um is handy too to save
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: food and not waste hypothetically. Um, but I kind of
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: like just eating what's in season. And um. A lot
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: of hunters and anglers use their freezer as a prolonged
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: wasting machine, funk. I'm so glad to hear you say that.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: Like it's like it's a way that you can get
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: something and then put off the waste. When it's five
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: years old, You're like, oh, I can throw it out now. Yeah,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: freezer burn. I'm so glad to hear you say that,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: and you know that bugs me most about uh, you know,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: many things, but at home there's it's this uh conveyor
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: belt to wasting because um then you especially something like
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: she fish which you mentioned, people love to go out
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: and hook them through the ice really close to town
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: and there. What do you do if you get a
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: sledload of sheat fish, you know, and you can leave someone.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: I'm joking, but I actually wrote a proposal to make
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: it illegal to leave them on the ice when you
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: you know, your head home. Uh oh absolutely, Um, but
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: uh in the state past that proposal. So now it's
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: illegal to leave your you know, spare fish there. But
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: but people bring them home and they put them in
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: the freezer. So many, you know, because you can catch
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of big fish. And and so I'm thrilled
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: to hear you um mentioned that the freezer is is
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: uh you know, a wasting device. It's it's it's one
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: of it's one of hunting and fishing. Uh. Many dark secrets.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: Is the the the old Like I'll put my freezer
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: then later I'll throw it out for some weird reason.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: I won't feel bad about it in two years. The
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: same goes. You know, if you get sixty geese and
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: don't get around and plucking him and stick him in
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: the freezy pull out. I've never done that because I'm
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: very fanatical, But I see people pulling out geese that
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: are not plucked and not gut it and in the freezer.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: That's an extreme. They're scary. Okay, what do you got
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: front of man? We gotta I gotta know so I um,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're I don't want to scare
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: any of your listeners. But so that's a fermented whale
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: bowhead meat. This is fresh mucktuck, which is bowhead, the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: skin and blubber. I don't know how scary you want
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: to get. Do we need something I've had? This is
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: walrus kind of the same idea of the skin. This
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: has still got the hair on it, which looks like
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: unshaven one of your neighbors. Um but um, but the
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: same idea as muck tuck. It's the skin with the
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: layer's lever. What else do I got here? Oh? This
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: is for you? You touched on which one walrus? Um?
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: This right here is is uh yeah, that's got the
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: hair on it you touched on this earlier. So, but
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: like the walrus and the whale, is this stuff that
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: was was given to you or were you yeah? Yeah?
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: Because so they have this right here is uh this
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: is just salted or raw or what it skills firm
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: that's cooked. This is cooked. This is raw. Uh, this
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: is raw. Um, so this is uh, this is right cariboo.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: So at home, my um uh kind of standard lunch
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: would be um dried caribou and either steal dipped in
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: seal or more likely uh boehead and muck tuck, which
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: just raw very often the bluga muck tuck smaller whale
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: the same idea is cooked. But but the wall you
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: guys cook the walrus. Um the skin yeah yeah, it's
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: got some blab and skin. Uh. My experience was trying
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: to cut walter skin is you wouldn't get too far
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: if you didn't cook that. What do you mean kind
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: of bulletproof? Oh so, but you guys eat the hair
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: like I just did. Right, Well, I don't know said,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: but I gotta tell you the old that I need
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: you try to combo. You're you're gonna like this. It's
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: some very fresh and simple Try it on them. So
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: you're eating the cariboo with the fat. Yeah, it's super good. Yeah,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: this's other stuff. Give me a photo. That's not a frad.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: He's doubling down. Do that wallus me to something. Man,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: there's nothing like that on the planet. Holy God, this
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: is bow ahead. Yeah. I don't want say like it.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say I don't like what I'm saying.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: There is nothing like that. So Steve, the first time
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: I had um, it's like if a deer was made
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: out of fish. The first time I had uh, this
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: walrus was some we were camped at fish camp. One
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: floated in so the hunter squad and shoot shoot them.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: And I hate to say this, but a certain amount
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: of time to get the tusks. But um, but if
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: they sink, they stayed down for a while and then
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: the gases form in the stomach, they float up and
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: then they then they're floating in the ocean. They come ashore. Um.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: So one came ashore. Seagulls are on top, pooping on
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: it and everything, and it's all sunburnt, rotten on top.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: Well underneath, the cold water kept it fresh, and the
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: you know, the natives knew that. So they towed it
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: ashore and somebody claimed the tusk. I don't remember that part,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: but so they cut that. Um, it's called coke. That's
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: what the local word coke. You've probably had many a
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: coke and your life, m but that's what they call
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: this skin part of it. So they cut that off.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: That um floating did the corpulent walrus, and and and
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: got a third of a drum, you know, fifty five
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: gallon drum to cook boiling water over a campfire and
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: then cook that. Well, my brother and I were barefoot kids,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: you know, fish camp there, and we walked down and
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: they said, you want to try something. We thought it
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: was the best thing ever what you just had. I'm
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: not convinced that this is as fresh as that was. Um,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: that's fermented whale meat. You want to get into that.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: I'll try the non ferment I want to try, but
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: I want to cleanse my pal I think the fresh
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: wheel meat. Yeah, let's let's recap on on the bowhead, right,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: which is but what you're going about to have, Brody,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: what what are your thoughts on? I mean, it's just
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: tastes like fat. It's pretty neutral. So UM, that demarcation
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: between the black skin, and the where the blubber starts
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: shows a tough layer. And you could tell how cool
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: you are when you're given um uh muck tuck. If
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: you are given if it's really tough that layer, you're
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: you are given a section in the whale that's not
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: as desirable. Um and often when I'm sort of joking,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: but um, I joked that if you're not if you're
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: not cool, you get the tougher uh uh portion of
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: the whale. You know, to go really good with this salt. Yeah,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: that's why. That's that's really so, that's why you eat
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: it with the caraboos, Steve the dried caraboo, because it's salty.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: But I'm a buehead. I got maybe I have like
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: some delayed effects from my last round of COVID, but
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to the walrus at all. Do you
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: guys think that do you already render that fat into
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: an oil? Absolutely? Yeah, yeamnum cover is super thick, and
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: so people render a lot of se oil and store
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: it and uh buckets and jars, and we used to
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: always use wooden barrels, which I think is the store
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: your seal oil. Yeah, I think it's healthier actually than buckets. Um,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: just for that ship. I try a piece here, I'm
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: gonna do it, But to be honest with me, I'm
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit chicken shit about the fermented whale meat. Okay,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: what's this? Oh no, no, you don't want that. You
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: already had it. Um. Raw will meat is phenomenal, but
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: it's fat and skin. So this is um. I didn't
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: think this was the way I was supposed to be.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't as excited. Is it okay to put that
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: on the cutting board? That's fermented wheel meat? No? This
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: is uh is uh beluga uh basically skin um. I
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's not cooked. I usually you
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: don't like it or like it. I didn't. Well, here's
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: the section. This is the flipper so you can see
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: that out of the outside, and then super sinowy section.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: I like it better than walrus, but I don't like
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: it as much as bullhead. I wonder if you just
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: got like a slightly tainted chunk of all risk I
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: ain't pretty good Tony, what man? I wouldn't let a
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: bullhead get by me? What size portion? When you said
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: you eat that for launch seth? Sadly enough, I wolfed down. Uh,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of fat, and I'm I'd fight to not
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: be a skinny white boy. I just don't seem to
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: put on weight. But um, yeah, I eat a lot
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: of a lot of fat all year around. And um.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: When my daughter was young and her mom would go
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: to work, she was like three years old, and she'd
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: sit and have lunch with me, and I would catch
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: her dipping whale blubber and bear fat. And I was like,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to have some dried meat with that, not
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: just fat dipped in fat? Well, where, um, what's that there?
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: I wanted to try that dried caribou, did you? I
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: haven't had that I want with this? This is how
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll tell you what a little rock salt
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: on there and so dry caribou And that's how. This
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: is the bowhead skin And that's how thick a skin is. Nope,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: that's how thick the skin is. But the blubber would be, like,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: you know, way thicker than that. I love how it's
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: like a little exclamation point or something, that bowhead fat
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: melts in your meal. Actually, here's just my kids would
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: like the bowhead, but they wouldn't like the wall. It's
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: not too far removed from like a beef, And that's
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: why I don't. I like both, but it's this is
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: the simplest to slice this up, eat it with dry meat.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how to answer your question, but
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: probably there's a uh, I don't know. I might eat
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: a half a cup and then and then the local
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: tradition is then to have um, maybe pilot crackers and
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: jam and tea or coffee. And that was kind of
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: the lunch we'd have. We'd have dried pike, dried whitefish,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: dried trout, which is harder if it's fat, right, cheap fish,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: um through that little combo of the dried cariboo in
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: the bowhead. Oh yeah, that's lunch. Um. But shoot, I
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: keep forgetting whatever what are the crackers? Uh, sailor boy?
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: Pilot bread? Yeah? You hear so many lasting thought about that,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: and I built up like a high expectation of what
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: pilot bread would be. And I foundly got some like
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: that's what they're talking about all the time? Is it? Like? Um? Yeah,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: and it's a kind of a big cracker. Why do
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: you guys eat so much of that? Because it preserves well? Um? Well,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: I joked that it's uh that pilot breader is actually
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: in new pack food. It's uh, it's it's been so
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: uh adopted by the culture that, um, I don't know,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: you just get used to. It's like eating, you know,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: why don't you eat muck tuck every day? And so
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: that's how could you survive without it? And that's how
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: we could get pilot bread. I can't get that. It's
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: just funny. Like rural Alaskans and the whole pilot bread thing.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: It's like it's kind of like a bland thick. Yeah.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's salted. Think you're getting your protein salt.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: It's a car I'm taking offense. I don't care if
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: you don't like the wall or I love it. You
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: guys love it. It's just funny because when I had it,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, well that's what they're talking about. When
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: we lived in Fairbanks. Yeah, immediately, like first time I
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: went to the grocery store getting some of these. After
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: those ten months living up there, I didn't miss it.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: When I left Alaska, were you did you guys have
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: many sweets at all? Or was that like my dad? Yeah,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: that's very interesting. My dad said that eating all that
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: protein and fat made greatly desire sweets, and so he would, uh,
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: we get done with some giant um meal of notice
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: you got mediterranean Mediterranean sea of that was at the hotels.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: My dad collects salt along the shore. But um, we
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: would get done with a big meal of you know,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: boiled caribou meat or something, and then start getting a hankering,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: large hankering for sweets. And my dad would take um,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: powdered snow, you know, fluffy snow, uh, dairy gold powdered milk,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: sugar and vanilla and start whipping it up in the
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: corner and snow ice creams. Great, it's just like dairy green.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: And we had had that in your book. I wanted
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: to make it for my kids. I never got around.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: You need that real fluffy uh cold dry snow. Yeah
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: that falls almost like cotton e snow. Yeah, super nice
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: and um yeah, we'd have that every night. Yeah sweets.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah it sounds great. So the the fermented way all,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: have you already had it? Yeah? No, I'd like to. Well, yeah,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: well you so you explain why this is part of
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: the diet versus what we just happen. Sure, just not
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: that will be Manneth dropping down. Oh well, no offense,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: but it's you're gonna think it is it was bad.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: You're really selling it. You know. The thing that's my daughter.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Just make this guy from Point Hope to bring her something. Um,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: she loves this. But yeah, I'm telling you what. My
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: new favorite food is your jerky and your into this.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: Uh that's fermented well meat, their raw prosion. So what's
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: what's the process of fermenting that? There's not? Um, well,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: we we had it's not. I'm like, I actually found
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: that less remarkable than the waters small piece. I think
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: you got to try the way. It's not a big deal.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Let's give him some more waters, Steve, I think you
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: got to try the wall risking you good because I
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: think he got a funky piece because I thought it
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: was I had a couple of pieces of the hair
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: and everything. I didn't want to be rude. That fermented.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: So explain the process on the fermented stuff. Well, it depends.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: You know, we ate a lot of frozen fermented fish
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and is it like legitimately fermented. Well,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: it's just like do you have the fermented candle fish?
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: I hear that's quite the culinary experience, haven't Uh I
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: don't know what a candle fish is, but oh yeah,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: I haven't had the fermented I've ried. So let's get
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: back to uh. In the fall, we were we would come,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: you know, set our nets and uh beat drying fish,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: and then it would reach a point where, um, I
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: guess it was cold enough that the flies were not
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: gonna blow things, and so then we just start uh
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: dumping washtubs of fish in the grass, tryed to laying
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: them up so they weren't criss cross, because you need
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: to chop apart when they're frozen, and then cover them
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: with grass. And I don't know how we kept the
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: bears away then, but I guess we had dogs and guns.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: But um and then um that would uh ferment. You
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: could use a different word if you wanted to rack
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: and um and um. Then after it got cold, which
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: used to happen sort of consistently in late September, the
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: ice would freeze, and uh we'd separate those fish and
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: then store them all winter and said we would have
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: lunch that was very similar to this, which would be
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: uh dried meat, dried um fish, pike, whitefish and other
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: dried meat. And then frozen raw um, fermented um trout,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: she fish, whitefish, um. And you take your boats, you know,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: and saw it like you're cutting a log into what
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: like you fry steaks. Those were super cold frozen. Bring
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: him in and put him on a um cutting board
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: and then um peel the skin off and then just
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: eat those chunks. Cut it in chunks between the bones.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: So what the pike and white fish? Are you cutting
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the pieces so thin? You just chew the bones right up? Um?
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: I guess I feel like we also kind of went
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: around the bones because you can see everything pretty clearly
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: when you say that. You you catch fish and you
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: lay them out in the grass and you just because
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: you don't want the freeze together, and they sit there
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: some number of days before they froze, like weeks weeks,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: and then eventually just pile them up. Yeah, and then
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: we put them on like you had to put him
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: up on a log cash for the winter because they're fermented.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, like most people would look at and be
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: like that fish is kind of rotten. Totally yep, rotten
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: fish yet just a desired taste as flavored to it. Yeah,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: But then we would eat um like grayling. We would
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: jigs through the ice after the ice frozen the fall,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: we're setting that's under the ice to catch whitefish for
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: people and dogs and hopefully trout under the ice two
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: and chap fish, and then jig for grailing next to
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: your nat because whitefish re spawning and eggs are coming out,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: so the grailing would swarm there. We would jig there
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: and then we would eat the grayling frozen raw. So
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: it was the same ideas. So fermented frozen fish, cut
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: them up and they're super good. I if you said,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: you know, do you want fried grailing or frozen raw,
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: definitely want the frozen really fried fresh grailing is fantastic.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: That is a tasty fish. We ate what was it,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: frozen thin sliced. That's good stuff. So that's the same idea. Well,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: the seal oil is like I like the frozen tom
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: cod because it's just like it's it's it's thin slices.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: It's so like clean tasting and it's frozen and it's
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: just kind of it's refreshing. The seal oil adds a
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: whole other element to it, man where it's like a
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: very peppery, like a like a very like a like
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: a spicy oil. I thought it tasted. I thought we
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: said it tasted like cantaloupe. Almost didn't it well? I
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: think you guys did pretty well, because what I'm finding
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: with seal oil now is um it's often kind of strong.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: I mean I thought I thought it was strong. I
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: think when they used to use wooden barrels to render it,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: it wasn't it was it did a better job of
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: making uh, sort of a fresh tasting oil. I wasn't
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: a coastal person, so we were we were known, as
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: you know, up up the river Inland as um having
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: crappy oil because it was you know, you're lower on
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: the totem pole as far as trading, and you had
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: your jar of oil that was from last year as
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: opposed to the seal you got yesterday or whatever. But
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff um. I have to be
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: careful culturally not say the wrong thing, but I feel
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: like the a couple of generations back, the elders had
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: um um. I thought they did a better job of it. Um. Uh.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: So I end up now with with all that, I
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: often am not as excited about the flavor as when
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: I was a kid. And and some of that's me.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: I noticed, I'm getting more squeamish. Um. We used to
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: my parents would we get a muskrat or many muskrats
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: and cook them up, and we'd eat the feet and tail.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: And I want to ask about that. When you say
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: you guys are eating the tails, I don't get it. Well,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: what are you eating off the tail? I need to
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: tell you about raising kids. Um, if you don't tell
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: your kids not to eat the butt hole or the
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: head or the tail or the lips, they will um.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: And especially if you did tell your kids, like it's
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: time to eat, and you open the soup pot and
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: there's the entire you know, I got it, But the
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: rest of the muskrat there while the tail's fat and
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: chewy and uh great, So there's a there's enough under
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: that skin, between the skin and the bones of the tail.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: You guys are nibbling off like a layer of fat
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: and meat. Yeah, and the yield's got to be really
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: low though. Yeah, but wait a minute, what else would
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: you do with the tail? Just cut it off and
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: fling it in the willows, put it in the pot um.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: And the same thing with with beaver, Like springtime, the
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: ice would go out and beaver send their teenage kids
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: out to find new homes. Um, And so along the
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: river would be we would uh my brother and I
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: would paddle in our little kayaks that my dad made,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: and we would shoot and shoot beaver and muskrat with
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: twenty two. Um. So you skin out the beaver, save
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: the hide, and then cook the feet and head and
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: tail and um everything else. Um and yeah, but the
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: tail on a beaver man that's got a lot of fat?
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: Did I try? I'll try the muskratch? I just can't
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: really picture it. I've handled like quite a pile of
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: me know. Yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, now,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: I probably would. I don't really need muskrat fur. And
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the last time I got one actually. Um.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: I just I think after I ended up with my
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: first girlfriend and later my wife from uh we're not
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: together anymore, but were living along the river, I started
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: being uh more careful of like, oh I should cut
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: that off, and oh, I don't think she would be
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: that excited to have the head grinning out of the
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: pot at her and um, well, I mean I knew
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: she wasn't. Um and so I started my long road
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: to being more squeamish. But as a kid. My parents
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: were just like, that's what we're having for dinner, and
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: fight over the tail. Um, and then of course beaver, uh,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: beaver of the tail. What's the favorite part? Tell me
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: about the Tell me about this road situation you're involved
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: in here. Um. Probably in the early nineteen hundreds, they
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: built Kennicott Mine down by McCarthy and built a railroad
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: from Cordova across the glaciers and up and got copper. Uh.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: They got that copper and then they started looking for more.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: And so right about the time my parents went uh
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: to the Kobuk Valley, there was a cabin above our
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: place called did a right thing, Pastor McCarthy. Nope, no,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: Sorry I'm being long winded, but there was a cabin
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: that we always called the Kennicott cabin. And we didn't
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: sort of put these pieces together, but that was that
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: mining company, uh, coming up the Kobuck and had discovered
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: um or new about previously discovered copper um up the
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: Ambler River and in those mountains in the Kolbuck watershed. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: And so all these years, uh, the UM, Senator Makowski,
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: Senator Stevens, all these people have tried to figure we're
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to access that, but it's
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: pretty you know, remote. UM. So they talked about railroad
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: from they could get the ore. Yeah. And so now
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: there's been uh this steady push over the years that
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: has built um crescendo now where they're they've got the
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: I s kind of mostly through. It's a little complicated
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: that uh all that, but they're they're wanting to build
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: a spur road off the pipeline road two hundred miles
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: sort of um, straight west from the pipeline road through
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: an through the controlling reserve. UM. Well in this case,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: it's it would go about through battles and then some
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: native lands, some state land, and through the gates of
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: the Arctic National Park UM and then hit the head
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: of the Kobuk and end up at UM basically Kobuk Village,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: which is which is the village at the furthest um
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: up the Kobuk River. It would be a two hundred
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: mile industrial corridor that would then open up the Brooks
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: Range and northwest Alaska to the many many uh large
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: deposits of minerals and coal and oil and the UM.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: From my point of view, it would uh uh ruin
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: the maybe the last largest uh intact ecosystem ecosystem in
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: the world uh um the Brooks Range UM. And then
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: put this these many giant open pit mines at the
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: at the head of the kobuk and the um Manila
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: can cocollacta conambler, all these rivers that flow into the
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: kobuk um and UM and also sort of bring this
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: tidal wave of technology that would change the innupact way
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: of life, which has already greatly changed. But what sort
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: of finish it off with UM technology and money and
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: uh influx of people and and and and and the
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: final things change hunting greatly as far as um, um,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: resource conflict and UH and then back to the technology.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: But then UM, the Western art occurred is just just
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: sort of flowing the river of Cariboo that was almost
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: half a million cariboo twenty years ago and has dropped
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: now to just under two hundred thousand, hundred eight thousand,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: I think, and so on that though, I mean, that's
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: like a wildly cyclical population of animals that goes up
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: and down with great frequency. I mean, don't you agree
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: with that? I do agree with that. Um, it's a
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: it's a very complex subject because right now there's some UM. Locally,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of effort put into um keeping so
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: called outsiders or from coming up to hunt UM. But
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: to me, it makes no sense if you're um not
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: uh looking at your own actions. So at home, there's
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: a uh, there's a kind of this is stereotypical. Uh,
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm I'm speaking in broad broad terms,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: But at home there's this feeling that, you know, outsiders
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: damage to the herd, but locals dome and and at
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: home that we there's more of us locally, we have
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: more guns and more boats and and UM, and the
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: herds falling as we're you know, we have more UM,
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: more stuff to hunt them with, and more access and ability.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: And then there's a push to build this road at
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: the same time and and um get more high paying
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: jobs and and all that. So what was it? What's
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: the general UM? I'll point out that anything like this
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: my I was gonna say my reflex, but it goes
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: beyond my reflex. Uh. I'm always gonna be on the
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: side of habitat and I'm always gonna be on the
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: side of wilderness. You though you don't like that word,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: I'm okay, with it now because it's pretty handy. Like
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be like people like, well, you have
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: a house and all that. I'm like, okay, uh, if
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: I get to a point where I don't have a house,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll have this conversation with you. But right now,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: um uh. We're not gonna win every fight. But I'm
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: always gonna be on the side of Wilder's always goa
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: on the side of wild life habitat. But what are
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: the people like your neighbors? Okay, like, what like if
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: you had to gauge I'm sure there's a lot of
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: sophisticated polling in Alaska about the project, But what's just
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: sort of the like the mood on the street as
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: you live your life up and down this vast kobuck drainage.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: That's a complicated question. Um, there's uh. I would argue
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: that the culture has a lot of fatalism built into it. Uh.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: Ten thousand years ago, you just sort of had to
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: let nature do what it did. You couldn't really control
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: a lot and hopefully the the ubern whales and caribou
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: showed up, and if they didn't, well, so too bad.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: Starvation And so I think fatalism is a cultural norm.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: And then along came the I'm gonna call them white people, um,
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: and sort of we're kind of uh pushy um as
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: far as you know, saying what you could do moving
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: in change of culture. And so locally there's just these
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: uh this dual fatalism, like these outsiders are gonna come
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: take what they want. There's nothing we can do about it. Um.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: Separate from that is a huge cultural change where you know, uh,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: living off of hunting and fishing is uh dwindling rapidly.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: And the young generation really likes their phones and or
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: their toys and their stuff and um, and so who
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to uh very high paying job running heavy
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: equipment or something. It sounds like fun. Um. And then um,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: they're Alaska. This is complex thing, but uh it was
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: divided up into U regional Native corporations. The native corporations
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: paid dividends to their native shareholders. So can we pause
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: just for me explain this for a minute. You've touched
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: this earlier. You know it better than me, but I'm
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: gonna like it, so correct me where I get this wrong. Um.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: During the Carter administration, Uh, there was a lot of
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: undecided there's a lot of like undecided questions about who
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: owned what parts of Alaska, and you had a lot
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: of like they didn't have They don't have the reservation
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: system in Alaska like they have in the lower forty eight,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: and they started to they wanted to come to some
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: finality about certain land areas, and so they started to
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: formally like divide up the state. And one of the
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: things they did differently than they did in the eighteen
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: hundreds in the lower forty eight is when making settlements
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: with Native Alaskans. Um they built corporations and oftentimes multiple
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: what we might think of as tribes or multiple groups
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: of Native Alaskans will belong to a Native Alaskan corporation
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: and they'll have a board of directors and they have
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: a chunk of land and they run that chunk of
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: land like industry, mineral extraction, timber extraction, whatever, and that
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: income produces payments to shareholders the same way if you
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: are a stockholder in a in Amazon and you draw
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: dividends or whatever, is that good or not good? Um,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: that's a good start. So it wasn't the Carter administration
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: that was a nail cove which set up like that
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: national parks and stuff. So previous to that was anksa
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: Alaska Native Claim Settlement Act, which I think Nixon signed,
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: UM and that set up the corporations. It gets incredibly
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: confusing from there. And and uh, don't quote me on
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: any of this, hopefully you're not recording this, UM. But
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: um uh, the Native corporations do have the land as
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: a uh you know, for resources extraction, et cetera. But
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: they also were given a big chunk of change that
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: they can invest in, like a company that um uh
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: provided toilet paper to the troops in Iraq, or or
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: all sorts of other things. And so like the uh
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: North Slope Regional Corporation has done very well on oil
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: and gas. Um some of the other ones um almost
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: like the Alaska Permanent Fund might have invested in uh
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: what ever you know. So so in the North on
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: the North Sult, for instance, they've taken oil revenues and
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: diversify their portfolio and invested in presumably you know, a
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: pension fund might go running investing. Yeah, yeah, presumably. And
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: and so um what happens back to the Ambler road
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: is that um uh people, the Native corporations are for profit,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: and so they're kind of like a corporation saying well,
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: this is a this is a good idea, we want this,
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: this will provide jobs, and we'll also pay you separate
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: from your job, give you know, native corporation dividends. So
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: in that sense, like wow, what a great deal. Um.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: And then separately they say, will protect your subsistence hunting
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: and fishing. Uh you all there talk of like limiting
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: the road, that the road will never be open to
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: outside traffic like the Hall road, the pipeline road was
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: which is now open. Yeah, and so there's it would
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: take you know, hours and hours and hours just to
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: touch the tip of iceberg on this. But but those
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: are the the thing the propaganda for the road. Um,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: it's hard if you're actually paying attention to say this
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: billion dollar road or and then many open pit mines,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: which I know would lead to more roads and more mines. Um,
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: is not going to damage the caribou herd or the
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: or the subsistence hunting, or the quality of the water
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: or anything but fishing in itself, right, like all the
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: different spawning species of fish that you mentioned, right, and
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: and just small streams. This road, as it's perceived, would
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: would have to go over. Yeah, many thousand small streams
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: something like that, and many major rivers and et cetera.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a giant industrial corridor into the into
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: the Brooks Range, which it's hard to if you don't
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: know the Brooks Range, it's hard to explain just how
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: wild that is. But it's imagine the Mountain Ranges side
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: of California, Okay, yeah, with with no people, with road,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: with road across no road, no roads and yeah, and
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: then if you're going up the pipeline road and you
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: you know, and you wander off to the west, you'd
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: be like you'll hit another road in Siberia. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: there's a lot, like there's a lot of parallels between
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: this road and the Pebble mine where you have and
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: the Pebble Mind you had like a lot of diverse
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: groups that pushed back against the road. Is that happening. Oh,
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear you say that, because it's
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: been uh, super frustrating to me over the last decade
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: that Pebble Mind is so known and people have stickers
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: and hats and and every other dude that was well
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: marketed man. Yeah. Uh. And meanwhile, from my point of view,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: the Ambler road is much much more detrimental. Um. We
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: don't have the Bristol Bay fishery to say, well millions
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: of dollars and uh red salmon harvest potentially could be damaged.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: We have you know, the fishery that I've fished in
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: forty seven in years that makes very little money and um,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: but we have and we have those the she fish
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: that you know, the most sheafish don't um live everywhere,
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: and so we have the the she fish population there.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: We have these incredible long, huge rivers that are you
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: can dip your cup in the water, and but but
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: how do you equate that to value? And say, like, well,
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: dipping that cup in the value in the water feels
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: good to me. But but oh, this road would bring jobs.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: And so it's a hard argument, and it's not been
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: publicized at all, let alone on the on the couple
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: and and I would say, it's uh, um, I don't
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: want to um. The apples and orange is thing, but
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: it's at least as important as pebble. And I would
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: say much more so. Where you gave me a hoodie,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: did you design that hoodie? Not that one? And I
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: gotta admit you know, I went to Rdova to uh
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: do a book reading, and somebody came up to me
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: and gave me a shirt that said no road Cordova.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: Didn't say anything about protecting your food or anything. And
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: I I asked people and they were trying to stop
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: a thirty mile road I think it was, or do
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: you I'm not familiar with it, but so I wore
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: that around and and then I was like, I gotta
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: make some of these that say no road. Amblers is
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: and um, a lot of the time up home, UM,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like the lone ranger. I mean, people know
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: I'm against the road. But locally, um, this is getting
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: back to before we started talking about the Native Corporations
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: and the Land Claims Act. But locally people have that
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: fatalistic attitude. But they also have this you're not supposed
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: to speak out. Um, you're supposed to just you know,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: keep to yourself about if you're against the road, you
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: just you're not supposed to talk about it. And and
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: so I'm this lightning rod, this lone ranger, you know,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: trying to stop the road. But I don't. People come
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: up to me in private and say, you know, can
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: I have a hoodie and thanks and whatever. But in public, uh,
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: people are not speaking out. Um. And part of that
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: is that the Native corporation um, you know, potentially would
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: provide jobs, and you won't you know, if they're going
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: to build the road, you'd maybe you'd want to be
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: one of the people with it. Um. You don't want
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: to anger your neighbors. You don't want to There's all
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: the normal reasons that humans might or might not speak out.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: And so I think there's a lot of people who
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: are against the road, but it would be hard to quantify.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: It would be hard to get them to speak out. Um. Meanwhile,
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: the propaganda machine is sort of grinding forwards, um, saying
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: all the the goodness the road would would bring, um
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of jobs and moles. Will I actually like it?
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um because the cariboo someone got that famous
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: picture of caribou getting shade under the pipeline. Oh yeah, yeah, no,
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: they like it well. And then like how much easier
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: it is for a caribou to run down a road
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: versus over tussocks. So the north of uh Cots, beyond
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: the coast is it's a red dog mine which was
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: established probably years ago between Kamenko Native mining company and
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: the local Native Corporation nana Um and Um. They have
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: a fifty two mile state road from the Mind to
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: the coast the port site and um and it's very
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: very popular at home. It's brought people piping jobs, which
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: is a whole another subject what that does to hunting
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: and and and people's lives and stuff. But Um, that
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: road doesn't lead to you couldn't drive from Miami to
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: it's not on the road. The road on the road
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: and then UM but um cariboo come down that coast.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: So western Ardo Kurd hits that road at times and
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: the fishing game callers, radio tracking collars show uh that
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: that stops the caribou for extended periods of time or
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: potentially keeps them from migrating UM further south. And that's
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: a little road, a short road that um Um there's
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: a little speck along the coast star compared to UM
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: this road that would come up the pipeline off the
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: pipeline road north of Fairbanks and then two hundred and
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: eleven miles UM east west UM. So as far as
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: the caribou migration, UM, the effects could be uh um catastrophic. Really,
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: you can't have a heard of uh you know serengetti
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: like uh animals roaming over giant areas um and then
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: slowly cut back on that area without um something happening
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: UM and UM. I guess I wanted to say another
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: thing about the migration. So the migration has changed greatly
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: in the last uh ten twenty years, and we got
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: really spoiled in my young life. Where August, September, October
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: all in there it comes this flood of cariboo coming
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: through the yard. You know, thousands of cariboo. Oh, I
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to get one tonight. You know, I got
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: a band aid on my thumb. I'll get one in
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: the morning, you know whatever. There's just so many caribou
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: flooding through to now where these last falls i've seen
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: like zero um or or a cow and calf eighteen
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: miles away or something. Um. And that's the migration uh
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: um not happening or delaying. All different things are taking
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: place and super warm in the fall. Um. There's more
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: hunters on these rivers, local hunters driving boats. And then
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: the final thing which I mentioned before that people like
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: to um blame the lack of migration on which is
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: flying outside hunters which are are coming in on super
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: cubs and stuff to the leap Frog north of US. UM.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's a very contentious issue when you
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: mix the resource conflicts with the development and and and
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: all that, and then and the lands claim stuff, which
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: is super confusing too well with the industrial development. I
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: think that you'll look back on the pists and match
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: between outside hunters and locals as the good old days.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, And uh, you know, I recently met
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: um people that talked about oh working together and stuff
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: that locally we don't really have a reason to work
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: together because you can this is gonna sound uh mean,
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: but that the locals can kind of go to the
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: federal government and say, um, you know, protect us because
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: Anelka said, um, well, on federal land there would be
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: a subsistence preference for local hunters. Um. Yeah. Uh. I
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to get into it, but I think that's
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: been grossly exploited. Oh yeah, they take I think there's
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of bullshit with taken. Um. There's been like
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of overreach I feel on the part of
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: like really like blaming small amounts outside hunters for these
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: like huge macro issues about caribou I think it's just
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: it's like just sticking it to people. I don't disagree
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: with you, um, but I think that most groups on
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: planet Earth have long used whatever they can to their advantage.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: Most Yeah and so oh yeah, yeah, that's trying to
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: soften the edges on that. But yeah, and so that's
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: in place right now. I Um, I put a proposal
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: into the board of game to limit, um, the number
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: of cariboo that myself and others up there were allowed
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: to get, because I thought it was, um ludicrous. If
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: we're saying, um, we live subsistence, we should be allowed
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: to do whatever we want, and outsiders shouldn't be allowed
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: to do anything. Um, and so what about taking a
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: look at ourselves and trying to make our subsistence activities
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: more responsible? Um? Why do we need to be allowed
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: you know, five cariboo a day, every day of the year. Um,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: when we're uh worried about the cariboo herds, the dude
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: that comes in and gets one, it's like blowing the
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: whole thing. And so I got horribly shot down on that. Um. Um.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: But I think it's comeing. I mean, I hope it's coming.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: I think as as uh people who live there and
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: care about that spot. I'm one of them, and and UM, well,
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I do think there's a local attitude
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: of um, locals can't hurt the resources, it's only outsiders
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: and and all that needs to change. I'm sorry to
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: say it's I'm sure I'm going to have some people
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: that give me some flak over that. But our our
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: local um way of treating the resources as has gotten
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: a little out of hand. And then, um, if we
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: do want to blame the outsiders, which is great fun
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: and really UM feels good. Um we can every group
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: out there. UM, we need to clean up our act
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: as best as we can. Uh, Seth Canner? Three things?
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: How do people find out? What's the best resource for
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: people to find out your perspective on the road? And
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: then what's the best way for people to find you
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: as a photographer and author and to find your work? Um,
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: I have a a website which apparently is uh hideously
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: unkempt kept and I don't I don't, I don't do much.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to do computers very well. But
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: any you have a website Seth Kantner dot com and
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: I S E T H K A n T N
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: E R dot com and UM and on there. I
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: have a few of my thousands of caribou photos and
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: and um in my books, UM and a few of
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: my articles. UM. Nowadays I think everybody, Well, you mentioned
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: googling how to find a diamond out of a ring.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty interesting. I don't google much
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: at all, but you can google me and you end
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: up with these articles. I've written books, have written and
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: then uh op eds about the Ambler Road, which some
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: of them have been pretty happy with. I recently had
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: a crazy opportunity to meet Secretary of Interior deb Holland
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: and uh and uh I wrote about that and uh
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: and these are sort of boiled down. I try to
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: make the Ambler Road issue as uh. You know it's complex,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: but I try to clarify it. And you know, you know,
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: a thousand words for people. UM my books. Remember most
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: recent book this A Thousand Trails home. Uh, Living with
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: Caribou is uh available on there if you want, uh,
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: you know me to ship you on and uh and
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: sign it however you want, but it's uh then you
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: got paid for postage. So there's other sources. UM. My
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: publisher on that is a nonprofit Mountaineers Books UM out
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: of Seattle, and they are you know, strong advocates of um,
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: you know, um environmental protections and other the use of
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 1: the outdoors, and so ordering from them, I imagine um
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: uh mountaineers dot org u is uh potentially makes more
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: of the money go to a good cause. UM. But
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: my publishers have all been nonprofits and and haven't I say,
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: I make enough money and from writing to pay for beer.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: But it just keeps going up. Uh yeah, hundred hundred
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: ten dollars and cots to be for five six packs um,
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: And so that's become a little challenge. And that's not
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: something kind of goofy yanni beer. That's probably like this
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: regular beer yea, So like is it hoppy? Like? How
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: how citruacy? Yeah, you might have brewing your own over
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: the winter something. Oh well, no comment. I think it's
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: a felony. But up there all right. Seth Cantner, author
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: most recently of the phenomenal book A Thousand Trails Home,
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: Living with Caribou um, and many many, many damn near
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: All the themes we covered in today's episode will be
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: picked up. Stay tuned Wednesday's drop. You'll see how Seth
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: Cantor does on the Trivia Show and spend there, probably
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: will throw him a bone like what Seth Cantor's favorite color. Uh,
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: he'll probably throw him some kind of bone, but UH,
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: stay tuned. Game on sockers coming up.