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Health Assurance With General Catalyst’s Chitra Nawbatt · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:00
  [on-hold music] Historically, healthcare is very much fee-for-service.
• 0:14
  You go to the doctor, and the doctor gets paid on the amount of visits that the patient comes in, sending the patient for tests.
• 0:21
  Versus value-based care, which is when clinicians are compensated for keeping people healthy.
• 0:26
  In the current system, there are competing priorities, those who pay for care versus those who provide care versus those who receive care.
• 0:35
  So when you've got these, uh, competing interests around processes, systems, incentives, part of the work we're doing in health assurance and the way we think about our companies is aligning those interests around processes and systems and incentives to keep people healthy.
• 0:50
  [upbeat music] Welcome to StartUp Health NOW, the podcast where we celebrate the innovators and entrepreneurs reimagining the future of health. I'm Logan Plaster. Today, we're talking about health assurance.
• 1:07
  What is health assurance? It has to do with transitioning from a healthcare system focused on sickness to one that proactively keeps people healthy.
• 1:16
  Next question, how do we do that by investing in innovative health startups? That's what we're going to learn from our guest today, Chitra Nabat.
• 1:23
  Formerly a CPA and a business journalist, Nabat is now the Global Head of Health Assurance and Innovation at General Catalyst, a venture capital firm that in twenty twenty announced two point three billion dollars in capital commitments across three funds.
• 1:37
  This conversation was hosted by my colleague, Katia Hancock, in front of a live audience of founders from the StartUp Health portfolio. Enjoy.
• 1:44
  [upbeat music] You're the Global Head of Health Assurance and Innovation at General Catalyst. Um, so can you tell us a little bit about that? It's unique.
• 2:00
  What is that role, and how do you think it can impact, uh, the industry? Sure. And maybe a little bit about General Catalyst before I get into the role.
• 2:08
  Uh, General Catalyst is a leading venture capital firm that's mission-driven, and it invests in some key areas like consumer, enterprise, fintech, civic, with a specific focus on healthcare, specifically health assurance.
• 2:21
  And my role is to expand and execute our health assurance thesis.
• 2:25
  And health assurance, that's focused on moving from a system of sick care to a health assurance system, which is designed to help people stay well, bend the cost curve, and make quality care more affordable and accessible.
• 2:37
  And the way that we think about, uh, healthcare is that it's a powerful connected ecosystem.
• 2:42
  Uh, and we've come to that conclusion from our work over the last, you know, fifteen, twenty-plus years in healthcare, whether it's identifying opportunities early or creating significant companies like Livongo, Oscar, Ro.
• 2:54
  And we've been able to do that through approaching healthcare as a connected ecosystem.
• 2:58
  And part of my role is being intentional about how we cultivate, uh, and connect the relationships, bringing together the best of Silicon Valley innovation with visionary healthcare leaders and operators to work together to digitally transform this industry.
• 3:13
  I love it. Thank you. Um, and, and maybe while we're on that note, tell us about, um, General Catalyst's work in healthcare. I know you announced a six hundred million dollar healthcare fund not too long ago.
• 3:26
  A little bit about, uh, the healthcare, um, focus and kind of how important is that to General Catalyst's activities.
• 3:35
  Uh, healthcare is, uh, the one of the top or if not the top, uh, vertical that in, in, in where we invest and focus.
• 3:42
  And, uh, so that, uh, so much so that we think about investing in healthcare across the entire value chain.
• 3:49
  So whether it's companies in core infrastructure, such as Khmer, uh, data and AI, like ADOC, uh, navigation and payments like Olive.
• 3:57
  We also invest in, uh, health assurance services, for example, remote patient com-- remote patient monitoring companies like Abelis and Cadence, and health experiences-- health experience companies like Pendo and Ro.
• 4:09
  So the way we think about healthcare is full value chain. How do you affect change at different, uh, ju- uh, junctures of the processes and systems that are driving the industry?
• 4:20
  So that's how we think about, that's how we think about it, this holistic approach.
• 4:24
  I love that it's such health assur-- first of all, health assurance, um, I love that there's this term that you guys have really leaned into. You know, we, we wanna be assured of our health. It, it's just so basic.
• 4:36
  Um, tell us about your role because it's really just focused on that. Um, what is it, and how do you think it can impact the industry? Sure.
• 4:45
  And actually, just a little bit on health assurance, uh, you know, 'cause that's a big part of, uh, our thesis and the way we approach, uh, investing with companies and also my role.
• 4:54
  And the way we think about health assurance is it's about aligning interests, uh, because so far, um, historically, healthcare is very much fee-for-service.
• 5:02
  You go to the doctor, and the doctor gets paid on the amount of visits that the patient comes in, sending the patient for tests.
• 5:09
  Versus value-based care, which is when clinicians are compensated for keeping people healthy.
• 5:14
  In the current system, there are competing priorities, those who pay for care versus those who provide care versus those who receive care.
• 5:23
  So when you've got these, uh, competing interests around processes, systems, incentives, part of the work we're doing in health assurance and the way we think about our companies is aligning those interests around processes and systems and incentives to keep people healthy.
• 5:37
  And where my role comes in is that collaboration, uh, which is, you know, these are-- when you think about payers and providers, let's focus on providers for a moment.
• 5:46
  These large healthcare systems, very fragmented, uh, experiencing a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure in terms of how to maintain care, how to innovate, how to think about their economic models, which are very constrained.
• 5:58
  And part of that is you've got, uh, fragmented interests, fragmented buyers, different constituencies, and many layers to the problems, of understanding the problems.
• 6:08
  Where my role comes in is very much leveraging my background, part of which you talked about at the top of our conversation, the multidisciplinary, multi-industry from my background, which is financial services, media, technology consulting, in terms of really being able to understand the complex, uh, the, the issues in a very, uh, deep way and bringing that market knowledge, that intel to our portfolio companies to help inform the way we work with our portfolio companies in terms of problem-solving, the solutions we put in front of providers or healthcare systems, how we think about innovation, how we think about, uh, collaborating and constructing integrated solutions, uh, uh, even how we think about the economic models and the value proposition we put forward to health systems.Well, there's a lot, a lot to unpack there.
• 6:55
  Um, so much of what you said just really resonates with me. Um, just, let's just take a step back and, and kind of paint the picture. What does it mean to move from sick care to health assurance?
• 7:07
  What, what do you think this, this world could look like, um, under that paradigm that you're striving for? Well, it's a, it's a little bit of what I touched on earlier, which is aligning interests.
• 7:17
  When you think about the healthcare industry, uh, y- all over the world, but especially in the United States, there are competing interests.
• 7:24
  What I mentioned earlier about those who pay for care versus those who receive care ver- versus those who provide care.
• 7:31
  And so how do you align interests in terms of motivating the different constituencies, uh, having the right care processes, the right data and measurement methodologies, the right risk models so that providers can move to more value-based care and be incentivized, feel good, and be compensated for keeping people healthy.
• 7:52
  And so part of our work is providing the tools, the technology, the infrastructure, uh, to help, uh, health systems do that. I love it.
• 8:01
  Uh, that, that lack of alignment and the fragmented in- industry is, is obviously something that our portfolio companies face daily in terms of their challenges.
• 8:12
  Um, and, and it's interesting to hear your perspective on the role that a firm like General Catalyst can, can play in that. Um, we, we feel sim- similarly at Startup Health. Um,
• 8:24
  now, you work closely with your investment team, I assume. Just trying to understand the flow of, of your role.
• 8:31
  Do you work with vetting, um, investments, uh, working with existing portfolio companies, all of the above, and, and how do you support those processes? Sure. Sure.
• 8:42
  And so, so at General Catalyst, you know, what we do is we're builders, right? We help build companies, and as part of building is, uh, knowing the ingredients, the critical ingredients that are required.
• 8:52
  And so that's where my role comes in in terms of building, right? Whether it's operating, uh, at the big picture sky level to getting to, uh, the ground level or below ground level in terms of the details.
• 9:02
  Um, and, and part of what informs that is really understanding the domain of the marketplace in terms of the, the customer, providers, payers, and really being able to understand, uh, the issues, um, in a very deep and thoughtful way to uncover the problems and then think about what are the solutions.
• 9:20
  And that's what I then feed into our portfolio companies in helping inform their product development strategy, product expansion strategy, the way they think about customers, market, uh, market segmentation, targeting the market, the relevant value proposition for each customer set, even how to engage and operate with, uh, the customer, with these large health systems in terms of the appropriate operating or engagement model and coming up with a interesting economic structure.
• 9:46
  These health systems are very constrained. Uh, they're all looking to diversify their revenue stream and modernize their tech infrastructure, but in the most optimal and effective way.
• 9:56
  And so part of our work with portfolio companies and my work is helping them figure out that two-way model so that it's a win-win situation on the customer side as well as for our portfolio companies.
• 10:06
  Um, I'm just gonna jump over to a question from the chat. Um, Unity, our co-founder, has a question for you. Unity, do you mind coming on, on video and, and asking your question? That's a really interesting one. Hey. Hi.
• 10:20
  Thank you for being here. Um, yeah, I was wondering, you, you have so many exciting companies across the, the GA, uh, or G, um, General Catalyst portfolios.
• 10:32
  Um, I'm wondering, is there a process or method for learnings from what's going on, for example, in your consumer portfolio companies that we can bring those ideas, those innovations over to your, to your healthcare companies?
• 10:46
  Do you have a method for doing that? Is that, is there a process for that in, in your, um, in your firm?
• 10:52
  Uh, thank you so much for the question, and that's, uh, and that's part of, uh, why my role exists and the background that I have is exactly bringing that multidisciplinary, uh, multi-industry type of lens.
• 11:04
  And so a big part of our firm and, and our, uh, identity is radical collaboration, and not only with our portfolio companies but very much internally.
• 11:13
  And so across all of our sectors, consumer, the fintech side, the enterprise side, the civic side.
• 11:18
  And so we are in, uh, regular, uh, dialogue and interactions and meetings and collaborations internally in terms of sharing ideas, cross-pollinating, uh, different methodologies, different solutions, solution sets that we're seeing in some of our other industry verticals, even other problem sets we're seeing in, in some of our other industry verticals, especially, for example, around user experience.
• 11:40
  User experience and engagement, that's a hot topic within the consumer vertical but has strong relevance within healthcare, especially with, um, large health systems looking to go more virtual.
• 11:51
  One of the things the pandemic brought and accelerated is being able to offer care and have connectivity virtually.
• 11:57
  And so part of virtual is how do you engage with consumers and your patients, uh, on, uh, digital gateways, and how do you track, um, patient adoption of using digital, what your patient experience is, being able to capture and harness that data and insights.
• 12:12
  And so a lot of the learnings that we bring to the table is very much from the work we do with our colleague investors and, uh, and colleagues in our other industry verticals.
• 12:22
  And h- how optimistic are you, or would you say you're more or less optimistic in a post-COVID world in terms of the, the level of progress that's occurring?
• 12:33
  Um, was there a noticeable shift, or is it still moving painfully slow? Like, what's, what's your, what's the general kind of, um, feeling for where we really are at this stage in, in the market in a post-COVID world?
• 12:49
  A- and is there s- specifically, is there- I, I'm, I'm thinking in terms of, uh, like, in the health systems, um-That your, your portfolio companies are working in, et cetera.
• 12:59
  I, I know there was, uh, as you mentioned, uh, a dramatic shift to telehealth, for example. Um, are, are you seeing an acceleration that's going to continue from what you're seeing?
• 13:11
  Um, are you more optimistic than, say, three years ago? Um, less optimistic? Uh, g- what's your sense of, um, the pace of adoption of new innovation, new design thinking, new consumerism, all these kind of trends?
• 13:28
  Um, I think the pace is relatively high, and I would, I would, I would put it into two buckets. Uh, the, the pace as it relates to desire is, is very high.
• 13:37
  The pace as it relates to, um, the practical elements of adopting innovation and implementation varies.
• 13:43
  You know, I spend a lot of my time with healthcare systems and, uh, throughout the country, and the, uh, the overwhelming consensus is around, hey, how do we move to more digital? How do we think about more at-home care?
• 13:54
  How do we think about hospital at home?
• 13:56
  How do we think about m- uh, mobile vehicles, where you're sending them out into different communities, different neighborhoods, that are armed and equipped with, um, with doctors or nurses or, or EMT, uh, type of personnel?
• 14:10
  So therefore, there's a strong desire in terms of moving to that more virtual or, uh, omni-channel healthcare. In other words, um, healthcare w- not bound by a specific address or physical location.
• 14:22
  So the desire is very strong. Then, uh, the appetite there, therefore, is there, welcoming innovation. And, and frankly, it, it takes time.
• 14:30
  It takes time to navigate these health systems, navigating their budgets in terms of their ability to, uh, adopt the different technologies. But I would say that the appetite and the desire is very strong.
• 14:43
  Um, the, the opening is there. Uh, it's about being able to connect with the right value proposition.
• 14:49
  You know, the right, uh, m- matching, in other words, um, the need, uh, with, uh, with what, with what your portfolio company or whatever the company can offer. Thank you.
• 15:00
  Obviously, we have a lot of CEOs, founders on this call. Um, so I'm sure they would all like to know a little bit more about, you know, how early you invest. Y- you mentioned seed and up.
• 15:11
  Do you ever go earlier than that? At what point do you wanna start building a r- relationship with a startup? How, how and when should companies approach you and your colleagues? Sure. Uh, sure.
• 15:22
  Um, and, and, and also too, one other comment, just, just based on w- the question that was just asked. I would say another dimension also, too, is this economic model.
• 15:30
  You know, is there some, is there a, an interesting dimensionality to the economic model?
• 15:34
  When you think about healthcare companies and going with, um, uh, their customer base, which is healthcare providers, I talked about this earlier. Healthcare providers, they're looking for revenue also, right?
• 15:44
  And so are you just going with one way, meaning your, your company is just looking to get revenue from the healthcare system? Or d- or is there a part of your economic model where there's two-way revenue?
• 15:54
  You've got revenue to offer or share with whoever your customer is, in addition to you getting revenue. So I just wanted to add that in.
• 16:01
  Um, and Katya, to the, to the question that you just, uh, mentioned, you know, how early or how too soon to sort of build those relationships. Um, you know, there's no time like the present.
• 16:11
  Uh, and, and part of it is, is, is, you know, i- if you're an early stage entrepreneur or sitting on top of an idea, you also might be looking for some assistance to help flush out your idea, whether it's talking to our, us at General Catalyst or other folks in the ecosystem.
• 16:26
  You know, uh, I'm a big fan of, um, you know, there's no time like the present. Start those relationship, uh, start that relationship building. Start getting your ideas out there.
• 16:35
  And part of it also, too, is collective intelligence, because the more people you talk to, or the more relevant people you talk to who can give you, um, targeted advice, that helps you inform how you're developing your own business model, your own, uh, thesis of your company, your own outreach strategy, your own product service, uh, that you're developing.
• 16:55
  So I would say there's no time like the present. And are there any metrics you can share that you look for a seed or Series A company to hit before you would consider backing them?
• 17:07
  I think it's very, uh, company or context specific, because some of the companies, and when you think about earlier what I shared of the different categories across which we, um, uh, invest, though each of those companies in each of those categories, whether it's tech infrastructure or, for example, health assurance services, very different kinds of companies with different business models, different metrics, different barriers to entry, uh, different, um, runways in terms of time to revenue, time to profitability, time to scale.
• 17:38
  Uh, a- and so it's, y- you know, challenging to kinda share, uh, general, uh, metrics in that it's very company and context specific. Um, Grace Chen. Hi, Grace. Can you introduce yourself and ask your question, please?
• 17:54
  Hello. Um, my name is Grace. I'm the CEO of Lucida Health. We provide, um, advanced remote patient monitoring for Medicaid population, starting with, uh, PACE programs.
• 18:06
  So my question is, um, about this, uh, you know, like, its upcoming telehealth and remote patient monitoring market. Uh, do you see-- There is two trends. One is, uh, more of a patient consumer-driven healthcare.
• 18:21
  The other side is taking the long time, long sales cycle working with health systems.
• 18:26
  So how do you see companies who kind of in these two segments and how you look at their, um, you know, trajectory in terms of the, the metrics you talk about, scale, um, time to scale, time to profit?
• 18:40
  How do you evaluate companies like that? Uh, how do we evaluate companies in terms of- Yeah. In terms of- Mm-hmm... their go-to-market strategy, right?
• 18:47
  One is more of a consumer-driven, private pay, versus going through the health system, um, the institutions.So we've got a couple of, uh, remote patient monitoring companies. One is Athelas, and the other is Cadence.
• 19:01
  Um, and they're focused in some-- in, in different areas and also too a bit of a different in, uh, differences in their go-to-market motion. So with Athelas, they're focused on mental health.
• 19:10
  They're expanding into neurology and geriatrics, also to kidneys. Uh, Cadence, they're focused on COPD, heart disease, diabetes.
• 19:19
  And so as you can see with just those two companies, different areas in terms of, uh, care, the underlying care pathways that they're supporting.
• 19:27
  Uh, and that's-- and that also too then speaks to different functionalities in terms of the product and service, in terms of the segment that they, uh, that they serve.
• 19:36
  Athelas, for example, started with a small and medium-sized doctor segment, and they've expanded into large health systems. Um, Cadence has, uh, started at the large health systems.
• 19:45
  So I, I just give you those differences to say that, um, similarly, based on my earlier comments, in that it's hard for us to have a specific, even general criteria across remote patient monitoring.
• 19:58
  Each of these companies do different things. Each of these companies have a different, uh, go-to-market motion.
• 20:04
  Each of these companies ha-have a different, uh, uh, product, product, uh, and service, uh, sweet spot or intersectionality. And so part of it is, is, is we look at companies on a-- in a very individualized way.
• 20:16
  Uh, so that's, you know, not really being able to provide general metrics, um, that, that you may be looking for, but it's, it's very much looking at each company and in that, in that, uh, context-specific, context specific for each company in terms of what they're trying to accomplish.
• 20:35
  Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Grace. Uh, Natalie Davis, you-- your question, uh, was touched on a bit by Chitra. Do you have a more specific question related, related to your question?
• 20:50
  And please introduce yourself, or was it covered? Thanks for being with us today. I'm, uh, Dr. Davis. I'm a pediatrician, chief medical officer of PreventScript.
• 21:00
  At PreventScript, we partner with primary care providers to help them identify and intervene with their patients that are at risk for development of chronic diseases with custom interventions.
• 21:12
  Um, my question has mostly been answered. Um, your detail you just gave of your remote monitoring companies was very interesting. Uh, we're working with the, uh, small primary care practices, small and medium.
• 21:27
  Um, and, um, you've basically said it's just hard for you to comment on, on that market segmentation, but, um, glad to see you're, you're working in our, in our space. We're, we're upstream. Well, I was gonna say, Dr.
• 21:45
  Davis, what has your ex- what has your experience been? What's your perspective?
• 21:49
  Well, we, we are in Kentucky, so if you, if you take a look at the Robert Wood Johnson PHAT map and familiarize yourself with the red part of it, we're in the middle of that, is where we live.
• 22:03
  Um, w-we started working in FQHCs and implemented in, in, uh, medium-size independent, um, primary care practices, uh, because they are largely in fee-for-service still.
• 22:16
  Some of them are starting to negotiate upside risk bonuses. And so you touched on that sort of, um, is there a way that your economic, uh, model can be bidimensional?
• 22:26
  And so, you know, there is this potential to have fee-for-service revenue in your model. We work in revenue share contracts.
• 22:33
  And also be thinking about negotiating, um, upside risk bonuses for certain metrics because primary care doctors don't have just all one contract.
• 22:44
  They may have six, you know, fee-for-service contracts and two, uh, value-based contracts. They may have capitated contracts, so they have a mixture. And, um,
• 22:56
  that is something we've wanted to explore, working in fee-for-service and also negotiating upside risk bonuses, um, for our customers. Yeah.
• 23:08
  And I was gonna say, you know, both of our, both of our remote patient monitoring companies, and that's part of how they engage with, uh, engage with the market i-in, in terms of, you know, two-way, two-way value creation.
• 23:19
  And that's something that's, you know, important for us with, with our companies is, is continuously thinking about a two-way value creation.
• 23:26
  That may not be where your business model has started, but how do we, how do we evolve and help you get there and shift? Because that's also too a part of how to move to value-based care. Um, so yeah. Thanks, Natalie.
• 23:43
  Um, it was interesting to hear you, uh, share just the fact that you're digging into specialty pharma right now.
• 23:51
  Um, are there any other areas that you can share that are sort of white spaces or areas that, that you all are particularly excited about right now or digging into from a rese-research perspective?
• 24:02
  There might be companies on this call that could be helpful to you. Um, just curious if there's anything you can share along those lines. Uh, sure.
• 24:10
  Um, uh, digital-- the proliferation, especially with the pandemic, uh, and the importance of digital.
• 24:16
  So digital virtual care, at-home care, and also too one of the earlier comments, I think it was from Jill, around this notion of community.
• 24:24
  So localized community specific, uh, to a, a particular patient context, personalizing, uh, personalizing the experience. Um, so those would, so those would be some of the areas.
• 24:36
  So personalization, uh, that with the intersection of digital, uh, virtual proliferation, uh, at-home care and at-home care models, both, uh, uh, acute and, and, and non. Um, so those would be some of the areas.
• 24:53
  That's helpful. Thank you. Um, and, and it makes sense. You know, we, we track funding in digital health and have been doing so for almost a decade.
• 25:01
  And, and for years, um, you know-I've been seeing more and more funding in empowering consumers to better navigate their journey in consumer health.
• 25:12
  Um, you know, the, I think the demand is finally taking hold that people just are-- they need more. They wanna be in, in better control. Um, another question from, from Jim. Jim from Fixable.
• 25:24
  Jim, why don't you come off mute again?
• 25:27
  Yeah, just going back to that topic of, uh, value-based care, what are some good examples from what you've seen, um, of, of great health tech companies that are very value-based care and how they like are, are changing the model of care?
• 25:42
  You know, Jim, uh, y- wh-when you say sort of, you know, good examples, I think, uh, the industry overall and, and most companies, and if you know one that's on the cutting edge, please do share in this forum.
• 25:53
  But I think it's matur-- I think it's a maturity, right? Uh, you know, there's a maturity dimension, and I think it's, uh, those that are moving along.
• 26:00
  You know, are there any, quote-unquote, "good," um, you know-- Uh, I, I think that it, it's challenging to kinda make that ca-- uh, that classification or categorization.
• 26:11
  I think more importantly, it's around those with, um, uh, not only the intention, but very much putting in the work. Putting in the work to get there and to, uh, shift there.
• 26:23
  Um, and so-- and that's part of the work that we're doing with our companies.
• 26:26
  You know, I talked a little bit earlier about remote patient monitoring and how do they think about, uh, you know, two-way revenue models and, uh, participating in, in, uh, uh, you know, participating in risk and taking on risk.
• 26:39
  Um, even some of our other companies, so for example, uh, Oscar, uh, some of our other companies within health insurance services, uh, you know, the way that they're evolving their business model and the way that they're engaging with, uh, customers and coming up with the next iteration of their companies is in more participating in two-way value creation, two, two-way, uh, you know, revenue models and, uh, two-way risk, uh, risk-based structures and taking on risk.
• 27:09
  So, you know, to summarize, it's more about that maturity and evolving their-- your business models, evolving the dialogue, evolving the care and the economic, uh, processes.
• 27:20
  And then we've got some infrastructure companies which are supporting that, whether it's Comear and others, 'cause part of what you need in order to accomplish that is the data, the metrics, the baselining, the risk models, right?
• 27:31
  All the analytics and the machine learning and AI on the modeling to come up with the calculation, [chuckles] right?
• 27:38
  Of what, uh, is, you know, what the, the, the pa-- the payer will take on, and then being able to activate that kind of a dialogue with the, with the payer, um, or the payvider, if you will. That's, that's great.
• 27:52
  And, and I-- it's really hard to find, to be honest. Uh, we've been looking around quite a bit. We-- we're in a bunch of RPs as well with major insurers to just treat low back pain.
• 28:01
  And you know, for us, we have a good predictability model around how we get people better and how quickly we get people better, so it's working out, but it's still a good amount of risk to take on as a company to be like, "Hey, I can get this done within X," right?
• 28:14
  And, um, but I think, you know, with, with adjective data, you know, big data, data analytics, I think it's-- we'll get there for sure.
• 28:21
  And I think another part of it also too, e-e-especially on the technology piece, the technology and the analytic tool piece is, you know, you've got some healthcare systems that own their own health insurance plans, right?
• 28:32
  Uh, and so you've got a number, but part of it, their challenges is, is they may not have, um, the, the infrastructure to help them, uh, help them in terms of shifting the processes, shifting the, the, the methodologies, right?
• 28:46
  The, um, the risk models.
• 28:48
  And so part of it also too is there's a, there's an opportunity, even with those health systems that own their own, uh, health plans, to provide them with some of the, the, the tools, the, the, you know, the tools, the tech, the methodology, working with them to get there or to co-create that together.
• 29:04
  And that's some of the work that we're exploring, uh, with some of the health systems who own, uh, health insurance plans. Yeah. I, I agree.
• 29:12
  And they're definitely taking a lot more risks in the past year and a half than ever before.
• 29:17
  So for those guys out there like trying to change this model of payment and care, um, definitely like poke at them a little bit to, you know, take the risk with you, right? So, um, great points on that. Thank you.
• 29:32
  Thank you. Um, and I just got a DM from Kavi. Um, Kavi has a question. Kavi, you could introduce yourself and, and take it away. Hi, Tishra. My name is Kavi. I'm the CEO and founder of Rose Health.
• 29:46
  Um, at Rose, we leverage deep tech for early detection of, uh, depression and mood disorder symptoms.
• 29:52
  And we now take it to a new level by partnering with a care navigation solution that allows us to connect those patients and then close the loop and get them to see a therapist within five days.
• 30:05
  My question to you is the fact that we raised a seed round, um, which was dedicated to going after the primary care market. But the ultimate goal was really to go after the risk-bearing entities.
• 30:20
  Um, so therefore, we spent a lot of the seed money on the tech and developing the tech so that we can leverage that early detection piece, which is significant for, uh, risk-bearing entities.
• 30:33
  And now, as we try to raise a Series A, um, we're getting into a little bit of an issue where, uh, the sales of a million isn't really there.
• 30:44
  However, we have this patented technology that can detect suicidal ideation with a seventy percent accuracy and, uh, six, uh, false negatives.
• 30:55
  So what are your thoughts on that, uh, given that we're, we're really now primed to, to grow and to get into the ACOs, get into the health system, get into the payers and, and even employers with our product?
• 31:09
  But we're having a-- we're struggling with getting the funding to really take us to the next step.Well, first of all, congratulations on your, uh, on the funding that you've gotten so far. That's amazing. Thank you.
• 31:19
  Uh, so congratulations. Uh, but in terms of, you know, what you just talked about there, I think part of it is
• 31:27
  how do you take your value proposition and, you know, I don't know how much w- work you've sort of done to kind of poke holes in it, but what is, um, what is the, you know, y- uh, your, your solution, your, your, your service, right?
• 31:41
  Your service creates joy for somebody. Who is that somebody? What is their pain? And so sometimes, uh, you know, and I'm happy to also take this conversation offline- Yeah, that'd be great...
• 31:54
  uh, in terms of getting into some more of the specifics. But I think part of it is, is, is, uh, whoever, um, you know, you're pitching to, uh, from a, in, in terms of the investor, right?
• 32:03
  Whoever you're pitching to, part of the articulation is, is, is, uh, here's the pain that I'm solving for, and how do you really, um, how do you really amplify what the pain is?
• 32:15
  How do you quantify the scope, size, scale, in other words, the magnitude of that pain in the market, that gap in the market, and therefore what you're solving for?
• 32:27
  Because perhaps to your point, there's a trail in the time to revenue realization, and that exists for so many companies out there.
• 32:35
  Uh, so many companies, uh, you know, i- all over the world, regardless of what the vertical is, but especially in healthcare.
• 32:42
  Uh, but I think part of it is, is, is being able to quantify, quantify the scope, size, and scale of the problem you're solving for.
• 32:50
  How much joy it brings, and then also, too, teasing out the multidimensionality of that joy. In other words, quantify as much as possible- Mm-hmm...
• 33:00
  um, as a way to, you know, bridge the gap in the story in terms of the lag of the time to revenue. Got it.
• 33:09
  And in that case, uh, we are able to do that as we, we hired a, uh, healthcare economist to actually do ROI analysis for us on risk-bearing entities.
• 33:20
  So we do have that quantitative background that now as well as the qualitative piece.
• 33:24
  So what are your thoughts regarding the fact that we need the funding to move forward and, um, the limited, the limited revenue thus far, the limited ARR?
• 33:35
  Is that something that, how would a, someone like yourself or General Catalyst really look at a company like this?
• 33:41
  Would you look at it, uh, in, um, more of a pro forma basis or more of a forward multiple, or w- what would you think about that?
• 33:51
  Uh, so a big part of our firm's identity is responsible innovation, uh, which is also to why I want to be very responsible in the way I respond. Okay.
• 33:59
  And I think part of it is, is, is, as I said, I'd be happy to take the conversation offline, because without- Sure...
• 34:04
  getting into some more of the specifics, I wouldn't, you know, we don't believe in just kind of making, you know, uh, flyer comments, you know?
• 34:12
  I think, I think what you're sharing, and I appreciate, I, I think probably there's a little bit more data, you know, dataset, uh, for you to share, to get into, to, to be able to provide more, you know, helpful, meaningful, um, input.
• 34:25
  Good. If, if that's, if that's okay. It is. Yeah, no, would love to connect offline. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Chitra. Um, I see a nice note there. "Jill Angelo, this was super valuable.
• 34:36
  Thank you Chitra and Startup Health team." Um, this, this was a wonderful hour. I thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you. Um, and I know that folks on the phone found it really valuable.
• 34:47
  Um, so I just wanna thank you, and we'd love to have you back another time and, um, you know, get you really involved in, in our community. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having me. Good luck, everyone.
• 34:58
  [upbeat music] Thanks for listening to Startup Health NOW. Startup Health invests in health transformers from around the world who are committed to achieving audacious health moonshots.
• 35:14
  If you wanna learn how you can join this community of entrepreneurs, or if you wanna connect with one of our 350 companies, go to startuphealth.com.
• 35:22
  If you'd like to learn how you can invest in our Health Moonshot Rolling Fund in collaboration with AngelList, go to healthmoonshots.com. Thanks for listening to Startup Health NOW. We'll be back next week.