Latest / Leaders In Payments / Special Series: The Trust Advantage - When Trust Wins in Payments with Darrel Anderson, Payroc | Episode 523

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Special Series: The Trust Advantage - When Trust Wins in Payments with Darrel Anderson, Payroc | Episode 523 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: The strongest partnerships in payments are built on trust.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: When trust is there, it creates differentiation, fuels growth, and leads to better outcomes for partners and merchants.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Trust Advantage Podcast series brought to you by PayRock.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Greg Myers.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is a continuation of our Trust Advantage series and is being brought to you by Payrock.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm honored to have as my special guest Daryl Anderson, the Senior Vice President of Compliance at Payrock.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, Daryl, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks very much for having me.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're going to be talking about trust as a strategic advantage in payments.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Specifically, how security and compliance build customer and partner confidence, support growth rather than restrict it, and hold up under pressure when an incident actually happens.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive deep into that topic, let's talk a little bit about you and Payrock.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, Daryl, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, maybe your professional journey and your role at Payrock.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Daryl Anderson, as you mentioned, Senior Vice President of Compliance at Payrock.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have an amazing team that works with me, making sure that the company stays safe and uh on all fronts, whether that's from regulators or our own internal processes and controls.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the payments industry well on above 30 years, and I've worked in a number of processors, I worked internationally for a number of years, and uh have been sort of at the forefront of compliance as it started in the payments industry.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I started, there wasn't much in terms of compliance.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: There was a handful of card brand rules that people were expected to follow, but for the most part, people made stuff up as they went.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly it's become a lot more regulated both from a card brand perspective and from an external regulator perspective.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Our team manages operations for payrock worldwide, which is in dozens of countries now.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine the complexities not only of sort of local US laws that we all grew up with, but now we're having to stay on top of laws in Canada and Latin America, Caribbean, the Middle East, Europe, New Zealand, Australia.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a giant task, but we're certainly up for it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our goal is to make sure that we make sure things are safe and stable so that our customers are available to the best processing corporation in the industry.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so for those who are listening who may not be familiar with Payrock, can you just give us a quick overview of the company?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Payrock is a large payment services provider.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're providing services from regular mom and pop merchants up to giant corporations.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have about 200,000 merchants that are connected to us one way or another, and we manage complexities across a pile of product lines.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, it doesn't matter what kind of merchant you are, how you process, what tools you use, where you're located, or what kind of customers you have, we can take care of you.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're multidimensional enough to be able to handle, you know, really just about any kind of customer that exists.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: We do so both profitably and expertly.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we try to, we do follow as all the laws and regulations that are required of us, and we provide excellent service to our clients.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Our clients come first, and I'll talk a little bit about how my compliance team thinks about clients and make some interesting analog stories to that.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career before my career, before my dad told me to stop doing it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I used to play in rock and roll bands and did a lot of recording and things like that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I've used that experience over the years to bring sort of operational endpoints into how we think about compliance and make it uh analog to the music industry.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd look at it and I go, look, the band, my team, or roadies and riggers.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: We do all the work that makes things work in the background.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Roadies, riggers, riggers are guys that do stuff above the stage, right?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hang lights, trusses, wires, speakers, curtains.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what riggers do.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Roadies is they're the poor guys that move the stuff in and off the truck.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: They sleep on the floor of the venue, they eat terrible food at 5 a.m.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they do.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: If those guys don't do their job, there ain't no show.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter how good the band is, there ain't no show unless those guys do their job.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we think about our compliance group and what we do and what it matters to the organization is sort of in that way.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: The band to us, the band that my riggers support is our customers.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: The audience is their customers.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to have a show go on and we need to have it go on flawlessly.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't see the riggers, you don't see the roadies, they don't get applause, they don't get any of that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if they don't do their job, there ain't no show.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they do their job well, the band looks great.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: The show comes off with a hit without a hitch, and everybody's appreciative.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that strategic advantage of having that depth and capability gives the band the capability to go to more cities, to get more audiences, to make more money.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I always think of our customers, the merchants, as the band we support.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to be in the spotlight, that's them.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we sort of uh work with our teams to make sure they understand our role, that we should be invisible.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: But again, the importance of it can't be denied.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't do our job, there's no show.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that analogy.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it very clear what you do and the behind-the-scenes efforts that you have to put into it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So let's dive into the topic.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when you think about trust and payments, what role do security and compliance play in that?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the way I think of it is again, back to my analogy of we need to make sure that things work, but we need to make sure that the real trick, the art of it, is the balance of creating the endposts of here's what we can do and here's what we won't do.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's real easy to have 100% security and compliance.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just lock the front door.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing will ever happen, nothing will ever go wrong.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't operate that way, obviously.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is is giving the guidance along the way to say, here's what we can do and here's what we can't do.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or more importantly, the value of my team is I see what you're trying to do.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's try it this way.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: We think that that will fall under the scope of the rules or the requirements, and it will get you to, you know, make sure that the customer's satisfied and keep us out of Dutch with any sort of regulator or auditor on top of that.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: My team performs north of 300 audits a year for the company, the customers, the regulators, the brands, our banks.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're tightly regulated and observed all the time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to be up to snuff.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of, you know, you go to your doctor and the doctor's got a diploma on the wall.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: You don't ask to see his credentials, you don't ask to see what courses he took.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: You expect him to wash his hands.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't ever ask him to do it in front of you, but you expect him to have done that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of like we hope that the customers look at it as we're the doctors that have got all of that stuff taken care of, and you can be confident that we have things on the straight and narrow.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what does trust look like operationally, not just like philosophic?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, trust operationally is I think your business is running as you intended it to run without a lot of interruptions.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can trust that the power will stay on and the transactions will still flow.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can trust that you won't be doing anything that's seen as wrong.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Merchants can be fined or sanctioned by regulators just the same way we can, and they can be fined by Visa or MasterCard.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we operationally, we're constantly making sure that in the background the transactions have the requisite data.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a fuel merchant, those transactions have to be coded a certain specific way in order for them to qualify at the card brands.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the background making sure all those transactions have the appropriate data.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if they are great, you'll never hear from us and and all that.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: But we do have the merchants back in that we will go and say, hey, you know, your location's not coming through.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a problem.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: We need to fix this.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So our teams are constantly working for the merchant.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: The trust is that that you have is that what we're doing is appropriate and it is measured and it is professionally done.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you go do your business.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Go sing, dance, juggle balls, whatever your business is, do that and do it well.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Make money and trust that we have this nailed down with decades of experience and the best team members in the industry so that you can trust that we know what we're doing and we'll make sure the lights stay on in terms of your transaction capabilities.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you talked about it earlier where you you can just lock the front door down and not let anything in.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: But how does a strong compliance program support growth rather than completely restrict it?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that having the framework in place for strong, you know, controls and experience within compliance allows people, I mean, there are examples out there of opportunities that I've seen at other banks and other processors, where in fact they turned down a deal or an opportunity, which is a good opportunity, just because they couldn't understand how to control, manage, or operationalize the risk.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: They would just go, nah, I ain't gonna touch that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's too scary and I don't understand it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: With a strong team, strong controls, strong processes and tools, you're able to go, I know how to get that done.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know we can tweak this and we can look at it this way, and we can provide different levels of controls that will allow this business to go forward.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: One really subtle point that I like to make when you talk about trust is our banks, the brands, our partners trust us.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when we do something and they go, we don't like that, they don't sanction us usually.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: They come along and go, We see what you're doing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Could you tweak that?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: We know you have the best of intentions.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Can you work with us to get that into a better flow?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so building that trust with our partners, the regulators, the support people, they don't automatically say, You can't do that, you messed up.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But they'll go, I see what you're trying to do.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you work with us to get this a little better?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we have that relationship and that trust.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just with our clients, it's with the people that look over our shoulder every day to make sure in a highly regulated industry we're doing things right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we build up enough credibility with those groups and subgroups that we can go, we can go to our processors and we can go to the card brands and go, we're thinking of doing this, but could we?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll give us advice.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's part of the trust is not just trust with our clients, but it's also trust with the people we work with every day that regulate us.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as you well know, we live in a microwave society.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is about speed.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Hurry up, hurry up, get the merchants up and running, get the transactions going.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: But in your opinion, what is the difference between responsible speed and reckless speed?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: The opportunities that come along, you know, nothing is new in the world again.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I find that people will say this is brand new, this is a new concept, but it's really, if you've been doing it for a few decades, it's sort of variance on an old concept.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're able to quite quickly go, well, that's kind of like when we did surcharge, or that's kind of like when we, you know, it's it's a different flavor, but it's generally the same concept.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're able to sort of quickly analyze that based on the experience to go, here's what we did before, we can tweak that and come up with something really good.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I find that the benchmark for compliance is if we don't understand something, if we can't articulate it back, that can be a problem because we're moving too fast that we don't understand it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I get the sense as the leader of that group that we aren't asking the right questions, we don't know enough, we couldn't explain this to somebody else, which uh is always a benchmark for me.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to explain this in detail to somebody else, could we?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if the answer is no, we're moving too fast because we don't understand it.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like assembling IKEA furniture without reading the instructions.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can go real fast, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you end up with a wobbly product.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we tend to read the instructions.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Makes a lot of sense.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you think separates organizations that sort of preserve that customer confidence or have that their customers have that trust in them when something does go wrong or an event happens?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do you separate those from the ones that lose that kind of trust or confidence?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think a couple of fold.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: One is, you know, you have to be frank with your customers to say this is a complex, complicated business that's moving fast.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's millions of moving pieces.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Something will break.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we can't sit here as professionals and say nothing will ever go wrong.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: But what we need you to understand, Mr.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Customer, is that we will communicate with you what we know, how we know it, and where the resolution stands.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, I believe we will help get you involved in the solution.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: We need you to think about this, and we need you to help us with that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Getting the customers involved that they can trust in the solution.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's that frankness of saying that, you know, this, you know, we're doing billions of transactions.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: There is always something that's not going to go perfectly well.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it's outside of our control.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the last point I'll make is ownership.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's our problem, we'll fix it, we'll keep you uh involved and we'll keep you apprised.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the ownership of those problems is until the resolution is complete, is important.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the thing that separates payrock apart is I keep talking about sort of these experts that we have and rock stars that are in these business lines that are supporting, that are the riggers and and roadies that are really adept at what they do.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't say enough about payrock management who go, we know these people know what they're doing, let them do their job, we'll get it fixed, we'll get it addressed.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: They are the top professionals in this industry.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of faith and confidence in the roadies and the riggers and the make this show work is really what allows those people to be the rock stars that they are.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can leaders like yourself create accountability for security and compliance without creating sort of this culture of fear?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's another great question.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So life is about risk.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just crossing the road is a risk, but you know, you take precautions, you look both ways and wait for slow spots and traffic and all that sort of stuff.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that what we try and do in our group in compliance is make sure that people have focused roles.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's not one person that's responsible for everything, maybe me, but but everybody else has sort of defined roles and they know what they're good at.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I often think back to a story back in my younger days when I worked for a major processor and they had a management exercise where they divided their teams into sort of subgroups and they put six people in a team, and I think there were six teams of six.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what they did was they put an executive on every team.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then what they did in the background is they put somebody who had military experience on every team.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they said the task was that you are now marooned on an island and you have to organize your resources to survive and get off the island.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: First task: appoint a leader.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Almost invariably, those teams picked the executive that was on the team because they were the most senior person, not the person with the skill set, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Who had survival training, who had, you know, military skills.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot from that course.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, you know, there are people that are experts on your team, let them shine and do what they do best, trust in them to be the rock stars that they are and to, you know, lead from the front.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really think that we hire people because they're good at what they do, not good at taking orders.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's the right way to go is making sure that you have the best people and then clear the path for them to do what they do best and you know, and trust in their judgment.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, not anybody is right all the time, but if you hire the right people and give them the right framework, they'll do a good job.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we do AML audits every year across our entire portfolio, any money laundering audits, very serious audits to make sure that we're not uh entertaining or working with people that are suspect in their quality.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: We pass those audits every year flawlessly.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because, you know, we trust the teams.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't do any money laundering alone.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: The courses that we teach are right down to the call center staff.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those people are trained in anti-money laundering capabilities.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so we trust them.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they could be brand new in the business and working at a call center.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: They are our eyes and ears on the company to protect us.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't think them any less that they're you know in a call center.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: They are key members of the organization.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we treat everybody as a key member and give them the requisite training so that they can help us.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they reciprocate.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: You give them the skills and the training, and we get professionals and we grow them.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: So one final question before we wrap up the show, and I think it's going to be interesting to hear your answer on this because you've been in the industry for a while.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: What should executive teams be talking about today related to security and compliance that maybe they weren't talking about like two years ago?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have a theory that I work with.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I call it the red balloon theory.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the analog to us and other organizations is uh if you treat your business as a red balloon that you have to protect from being popped, it's almost impossible in a world full of pins to pick which pin reliably is going to be the one to pop the balloon and go, I'm gonna insure myself against that pin.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Almost without exception, you'll be wrong.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's never the one you think that's gonna get you that gets you.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, you've got to create a mindset that everything matters.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Sun Za, the Chinese general, said that battles are won long before they're fought, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: People have articulated themselves in such a way that they've created the strategies and the prevention methods so that they are well prepared.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I often say you can look at a company and say, are you smoke detectors or are you fire extinguishers?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which one are you?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the shift in the past couple of years is companies that were saying, we're real good at fixing stuff that broke.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's the fire extinguisher mentality.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can put out fires.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: When when you probably got to think about a bit as I need more smoke detectors, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I need more fire prevention training.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I need to look at that sort of stuff.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it circles back to my red balloon argument is any one of those things could pop the balloon.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost impossible to rebuild the balloon once it's popped.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You have to think about how do I protect myself as best I can against all the pins that are out there.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I would think in the last couple of years, I think people are coming around to going, oh, it's a regulator that's going to get me.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a card brand that's going to yell at me.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: To this is a complex business run in many different ways.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bunch of things that are going to get me.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be more smoke detector than fire extinguisher.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are starting to see that now based on the on, you know, what you see, the the quality of the people that are being hired in the industry, especially in the compliance roles, that people are sort of getting it is we need we need to make sure that our overall position is solid, not just our ability to react to it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to ask one more question because I feel like it's top of mind with a lot of people, and it's going to be one that you hear the words every day, but it's AI.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: How in your role is AI either helping or hindering or making your job easier or making it harder?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Curious, your view as a leader in this space of how AI is affecting what you and your team do?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a great question.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's struggling with it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's because AI is relatively new.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, disruptive technology as a concept is not new.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just another one of those things.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've been doing it as long as I have, you sort of said, I mean, I remember the introduction of computers.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I first started in banking years ago, people would handwrite deposits in passbooks, like would write it with a pen.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, so what is a disruptive technology?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I often think of AI as, you know, when the camera was invented, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you were a good artist back in the day, like in Da Vinci, how good could you replicate a picture of the queen, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: You wanted to make it as exact as you could.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as a camera came along and that could capture a picture of the queen exactly in seconds and accurately, that didn't put artists out of business.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: It allowed artists to go, maybe I can do conceptual art, maybe I can do abstracts, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: It freed them up to expand, you know, to use their creativity in other ways that was, you know, more generative and more interesting, perhaps, to them.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I often think of AI as that way is one of the silly tasks that are repetitive and that can be done accurately, you know, by a tool.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then so you fall back into a role of I'm just monitoring and overseeing those sorts of tasks.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge is just as much as we think we're real smart, hey, we've got AI and we can start monitoring transactions for fraudulent patterns.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thieves have AI too.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they're going, how can I make my transactions less susceptible for being detected by AI?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of the day, you know, it's it's going to evolve into almost like the military equivalent of the drone wars.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Who's got the better drone?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to end up who's got the better AI tools.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point, you know, it's very much a learning curve.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a believer that, you know, people say, oh my God, there'll be no more jobs.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It'll just be robots running everything.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that's the case.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I hearken back to my example of the artists.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: It'll allow you to do things that are of more value and more interesting and probably more additive in the experience for the end user, our customers, who are our rock band, to do put on better shows for their audiences.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's all going to be good.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry, don't fret.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would encourage people not to ignore it, but to, you know, utilize it and think about how they can use it in their daily jobs professionally.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: AI, again, everybody that is adoptive and accepting of new technology seems to do well.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody who's sort of rejected gets pushed to the side.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So learn it, know it, love it, use it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that's a great way to wrap up the show.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, Daryl, I know your time is very valuable, so I really appreciate you being here.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh totally my pleasure.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the opportunity.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's always good to have these talks to get uh you know different points out there, and I do appreciate the time.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And until the next story.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Trust Advantage podcast series.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about Payrock, please visit www.payrock.com.