Latest / The Innovation Show / Ep 663: Alex Osterwalder — Why the Core Business Kills Innovation (Explore vs Exploit, Part 3)

Transcript

Ep 663: Alex Osterwalder — Why the Core Business Kills Innovation (Explore vs Exploit, Part 3) · The Innovation Show

0:00
leadership teams are not always aware of why these things are getting stuck.
0:05
And why are they getting stuck is because people are just trying to
0:10
do a good job, you know, running the business, making as much revenue as
0:15
they can as fast as they can, sometimes to get more bonus or a promotion.
0:19
There's no ill intent.
0:22
But if you don't fight against that, if you don't create an incentive
0:27
structure or even, you know, a separate sales team for new types
0:31
of products, it just won't take off.
0:33
So anything that is, is slightly different, all the way to, like,
0:37
explore-exploit as a continuum, to things that are very different, you
0:41
need to proactively, , take care of the governance, and that's the big theme.
0:47
I wanna thank our sponsor, Kyndryl, who runs and reimagines the technology
0:51
systems that drive the advantage for the world's leading businesses.
0:55
With a unique blend of AI-powered consulting built on unmatched managed
0:59
service capability, Kyndryl helps leaders harness the power of technology for
1:03
smarter decisions, faster innovation, and a lasting competitive edge.
1:07
You can also find many of the great guests we've had on the innovation
1:10
show with their articles on the Kyndryl Institute, which is at
1:14
K-Y-N-D-R-Y-L, Kyndryl.com/institute.
1:19
There was a quote we announced on last week's episode with Alex Osterwalder
1:24
by Steve Blank, who's actually a mentor to Alex and a guest on the show and
1:29
a future guest on the show as well.
1:30
Brilliant line.
1:31
It appears in Lead and Disrupt, the book by Michael Tushman and Charles
1:35
O'Reilly that's popularized the idea of , exploration and exploitation.
1:41
, That idea initially came from a guy called James March, which Michael
1:44
Tushman always credits as the guy who came up with the concept.
1:48
But the Steve Blank line was that, "Exploitation pays your salary.
1:54
Exploration pays your pension." there's another side of that, something that
1:58
we're gonna talk to our guest today about, which is a line by Harvard
2:02
business professor Theodore Levitt.
2:04
And he said, "Organizations by their very nature are designed to promote
2:09
order and routine. They are inhospitable environments for innovation." So that's
2:15
something we're gonna talk about today.
2:17
It's a pleasure to welcome back the author of, for those who are
2:20
watching us, all those books that are adorning my shelf behind me
2:23
there, the great Alex Osterwalder.
2:26
Very welcome back, man
2:27
Very cool to be back.
2:28
Always a pleasure talking to you
2:30
Great to do this series with you, man, this Strategyzer series.
2:34
I wanna tell our audience, I have a copy of a random one of Alex's books
2:38
up for grabs if you sign up for our Substack, and you will just be in
2:42
with a chance to win one of those, and I'll pick a name out of the hat.
2:46
Alex, I set us up there, man.
2:48
.. W- we talked about something, actually, it's going about a
2:51
year, nearly a year ago now.
2:53
It was an interview we did in person, an impromptu interview
2:57
at Thinkers 50, I grabbed you.
2:59
I said, "Hey, Alex, I have Howard Yu here and Sangeet Paul Choudary.
3:04
Do you wanna do an episode of The Innovation Show?" And in that episode, we
3:10
came up with this concept that something that you said, and we said, "Well, that's
3:14
Osterwalder's Law," and it's linked to those two quotes we said earlier on.
3:18
So I'm gonna set you up there, man, and hand over the mic
3:22
that was a great moment.
3:23
That was, A, you know, it was really a, a fun session with two brilliant
3:27
thinkers, , and yourself and myself.
3:30
And B, you know, like, this, this whole idea that the core business kills
3:34
everything that looks differently is, is, it's not a new idea at all, right?
3:38
People have been talking about the ambidextrous organization.
3:41
You showed, you know, the whole origins of where all that comes from.
3:45
But it's something that leadership teams are really still struggling with.
3:48
And I can see that, you know, with my little window on the world.
3:52
I have a couple of senior leadership teams of large organizations that
3:56
come to me and ask, "Well, how do we actually, you know, do new stuff?"
4:02
And sometimes they, they ask, "Well, why isn't this taking off?" You know,
4:05
like, "I'm, I'm trying to invest in it.
4:07
Why is it not working?" So that idea that the core kills everything that looks
4:13
differently, you know, antibodies that just kill new products, new channels,
4:17
new ways of working, new business models, that's absolutely not new.
4:22
But I think, you know, I'd even say one, one person who we didn't mention
4:25
yet, you know, Clay Christensen with The Innovator's Dilemma, you know, he
4:29
really kind of framed that around a product perspective, that companies,
4:34
you know, they get really good at doing what they're doing, focusing
4:38
on the clients they're focusing on.
4:40
I just think it's actually a bit larger, that everything that is
4:44
different, you know, like, revenue streams with a different kind of margin.
4:49
Even a new product in the same business model to the same customer, the sales
4:54
team might say, "Hey, you know, I, I don't know how to sell this yet.
4:58
I don't have a slide deck.
4:59
I'm just gonna sell the stuff I've been selling for ages." And you really have
5:03
to fight against that as a leadership team to enable new things to become
5:09
possible. So that's a big, big, big, big theme with many leadership teams.
5:14
Some are aware and proactively come to us, and sometimes it's more from
5:19
the bottom up, where the growth and strategy teams say, "Hey, Alex, can you
5:23
help us work with the leadership teams?
5:25
Because they don't really get it.
5:27
They're so focused on the core.
5:29
What can we do to get them to open kinda their mind a little
5:32
bit?" Because they want to, it's just they don't always know how.
5:36
So this concept of explore, exploit, one of the things we touched on
5:40
actually was the metrics are different.
5:42
We touched that on episode two, that you have to measure them differently,
5:47
otherwise you'll just kill them, because through the lens of the existing,
5:50
they look like they're not working.
5:52
But the other is something that's really important that many, many of the people
5:57
you work with, heads of innovation, heads of change, heads of transformation, also
6:01
heads of new business units struggle with, is actually the sales team.
6:05
And you mentioned Clayton Christensen there.
6:07
One of the first places I read about the case of SonoSite was in Christensen
6:11
work, and SonoSite was this company that introduced in 2002, I think
6:16
it was, this c- this product called the Titan, and it was a ultrasound
6:21
device about the size of a laptop.
6:24
But Kevin Goodwin, who was the CEO himself, s- heard from clients
6:29
that they wanted something smaller.
6:30
So it was about the t- a third the size and a third the price.
6:34
Customers were… Loved it, but nobody bought it.
6:37
So he went out with his top salesperson, sat in one of the
6:41
sales meetings, and noticed that the guy never took out new product.
6:46
He kept talking about the Titan, this main product that he knew how to
6:49
sell, that he had a huge margin on.
6:52
the meeting, Goodwin, who was the CEO, so this guy's CEO, and Goodwin says to him,
6:57
"Why didn't you show him the machine?" And he's like, "Well, my job?" And
7:02
Goodwin's like, "To sell for the company, to make us money." He goes, "Yeah.
7:06
I have to sell three of those instead of just one of those, and my commission's
7:11
better on one of those." Mic drop, and he had the concept that I have to change
7:15
the whole reward structure, et cetera.
7:18
So this is something that you experience time and time again, and it will ring
7:22
true for so many of our listeners
7:25
It's 100% spot on what you're saying, and that, you know, is, is, is,
7:30
is for something that's probably even close- closer to the core.
7:33
Now, imagine if you're coming up with a completely new business
7:36
models for new customers.
7:39
You got, you know, an entirely, you know, different set of challenges.
7:43
But I think the key thing that, that you emphasized here is that leadership
7:48
teams are not always aware of why these things are getting stuck.
7:53
And why are they getting stuck is because people are just trying to
7:57
do a good job, you know, running the business, making as much revenue as
8:03
they can as fast as they can, sometimes to get more bonus or a promotion.
8:07
There's no ill intent.
8:09
But if you don't fight against that, if you don't create an incentive
8:14
structure or even, you know, a separate sales team for new types
8:19
of products, it just won't take off.
8:21
So anything that is, is slightly different, all the way to, like,
8:25
explore-exploit as a continuum, to things that are very different, you
8:29
need to proactively, , take care of the governance, and that's the big theme.
8:35
So again, ambidextrous is not new.
8:37
It's a term that's been out there, , but not very many companies that I
8:42
see are really good at dealing with this, and that's the entire spectrum.
8:46
It can just be a, a slightly different product.
8:49
So that's the key, you know, that you really need to help leadership teams
8:53
do the top-down because bottom-up is relatively easy if you do the right thing.
8:58
There are a lot of people who are passionate about selling new things,
9:03
you know, exploring new opportunities, but the system isn't there.
9:07
So it's generally today, these days, when it comes to new growth
9:10
initiatives, I think it's a, it's a lot more of a top-down challenge.
9:15
And it goes to, you know, where does leadership attention go?
9:19
To the big things.
9:20
Well, you know- Everything, you know, that has become big, take Amazon
9:25
Web Services, it started small.
9:27
So the key challenge for leadership teams is to focus on those small
9:32
things that could become big.
9:35
Because if you don't focus th- uh, you know, on them while they're
9:38
small, while they're seeds or plants, they're just gonna die.
9:42
So you're never gonna even see them.
9:44
They're never even gonna show up on your horizon.
9:46
So that's why your story is pretty cool because, you know, the CEO
9:49
had to see that and if you know this, you can be proactive.
9:54
So one of the CEOs, I really admire is Bracken Darrell.
9:58
When he was at Logitech, he talked about trees, plants, and seeds.
10:03
The trees were the peripherals business for, you know, computers
10:08
and he said, "Well, we need to proactively reallocate resources."
10:12
So he was shifting 70% of the resources from that core business.
10:15
He was saying, "Look, it's, it's trees, but eventually they're gonna fall.
10:18
Like, they're big and strong, but they're still gonna die.
10:21
We need to proactively reallocate resources to the plants and the
10:25
seeds," and that was, you know, like a speakers business, that was
10:30
a computer gaming, which is a very different peripherals business than
10:33
the, you know, office computers.
10:36
So he did that proactively.
10:37
So what it really is about is managing a portfolio of businesses
10:43
and proactively taking money out of the core and pumping it to the plants
10:49
and the seeds and for that, you need the right kinda governance , system.
10:53
If you don't do that as a leadership team, that proactive portfolio management
10:58
of all of your businesses, including, you know, kinda creating new ones, you
11:02
eventually will die, and that's one of the reasons why Amazon has been so powerful.
11:06
You can love them or hate them, but you know, Jeff Bezos was always
11:10
obsessed by the company dying while it was at the very top.
11:13
He said, "We're gonna die.
11:14
We need to keep that culture of day one.
11:17
We need to create new businesses.
11:18
We n- we can't, you know, just lean back." So that is something only
11:23
leadership teams can do, that governance, that portfolio management, , and
11:29
they shouldn't be, you know, focused just on managing the existing.
11:32
That is not the key of the modern organization.
11:36
Modern strategy is not just running the business in a world-class way.
11:41
It's really having a vision of the future and creating a
11:43
portfolio that is future-ready.
11:47
It's interesting you say that.
11:48
NVIDIA is a company that I wish I had invested in a lot, a lot long time ago.
11:55
I have a friend who invested money.
11:56
He's like a millionaire because he- just 'cause of NVIDIA.
11:59
But we… of the things that was interesting, there's a book about
12:04
NVIDIA out, and I was reading through it, Jensen Huang always said, "We're
12:09
18 months from bankruptcy." was really interesting was he had t- he had, because
12:15
of the life cycle of chips are so, so fast, he has different teams working on
12:19
different chips at, all at the same time.
12:23
it brings me back to something you said, which is the governance aspect,
12:27
and I know you work with senior teams on this governance, and even
12:32
in industries that don't seem like they need an exploration governance.
12:37
But this is where you bring it from this abstract concept that we write about
12:41
and read about to something actually that you live and you do every day.
12:45
I'd love you to share that, because of the things Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez said
12:50
in his book Powered by Projects, is that if you're in head of, if, if you're in
12:55
charge of transformation efforts, you have the right to put your hand up and go,
13:00
"I'm not doing this anymore unless I get two days of your, uh of your attention.
13:04
A, a at least a week, maybe.
13:06
Maybe more.
13:07
But, like, I need that amount of your time to make this thing work, otherwise
13:12
it's just gonna fail." So in there, there's a lot of shifting the mindset
13:17
of moving away from the thing you're brilliant at as a leadership team, which
13:21
is running the business, the reason you got the job in the first place, to
13:24
now imagining the future, backing the future, getting things wrong, et cetera.
13:29
So how the heck do you do that?
13:32
Yeah, so I'll, I'll share a quick anecdote before I get to a concrete case of, of
13:37
a company that we're working with now.
13:39
So many years ago, I was working with a, a really big financial
13:43
institution, and we were setting up, you know, this growth funnel with
13:47
new, you know, explore initiatives.
13:50
And I had a session with the senior leadership team.
13:53
This is, like, a, a bank with 50,000 people.
13:55
And then the CEO, when I was, I was telling him, "You really need to be
14:00
there for the sessions where we invest in these ideas." And, and he's saying,
14:05
"But they're, they're still small.
14:06
Like, you know, can't I just take them when they later when they're
14:09
bigger?" I said, "No, no, no.
14:11
People need to see you actively involved in exploration because it's very
14:16
symbolic." And jokingly, I said, "I don't even care what you do, as long as people
14:22
think you're working on exploration." And we all had a laugh, but it, you
14:27
know, I, I was actually kinda serious.
14:29
Now, the best leaders, they really proactively work on, you know, governance,
14:34
et cetera, so it's not just for the show.
14:36
, Because, you know, symbolic doesn't mean I'm talking about it
14:40
and then it's innovation theater.
14:41
You know, it really means people know that every week you're meeting
14:46
with, uh, you know, the teams that are working on exploration.
14:48
You have time carved out in your agenda.
14:52
Because if you don't, you know, nobody will take it seriously.
14:55
We look to the top of an organization, and what they do becomes kind of, you know,
15:01
the truth of what we should be doing.
15:04
So if you are not actively involved in spending time on that… and Rita McGrath
15:09
has, has the, you know, agenda test.
15:11
I don't know how she calls it.
15:12
I like to call it the Rita McGrath test.
15:14
Looking at a CEO's agenda or the senior leadership team's agenda or
15:19
their meeting's agenda, you know, when they have quarterly meetings,
15:22
what goes on in there is what the company is gonna see as important.
15:25
So that's, that's just key, right?
15:27
So that's to the story.
15:29
Now, let me give you a quick example, and I'll show you just one
15:31
exercise we did with them, um, you know, pre-work, so I'm gonna run
15:35
this workshop In a couple of weeks.
15:38
So there's the CEO of a, of a, a luxury hotel chain that came to me and, you
15:44
know, was referred by another, , senior executive from another company.
15:49
And he said, "Alex, I really want to, you know, start to look at e-exploration
15:53
because we're world class. Actually, we're very aggressive in expanding, but we need
15:58
to already start to look at exploration."
16:01
That's exactly what you want from a senior leader.
16:03
Understanding how important it is to, you know, pay attention to the core and
16:09
to be bold there, but not to stop there.
16:13
And they did, you know, had to fix some stuff for two years or
16:15
so, and now they're really looking more boldly into exploration.
16:19
So we designed a workshop together that-- where the senior leadership
16:24
team will come together for a day to deeply understand how does exploration
16:30
work, why does it often clash with running the, you know, organization,
16:35
the business, because they have a portfolio of businesses if you want.
16:39
I'll get to that in a second.
16:40
So they want to understand first, and then in the afternoon we're gonna
16:43
design the governance and what is that senior leadership team going
16:48
to do every week, every quarterly meeting, looking at the portfolio
16:53
of initiatives, exploit, explore.
16:56
So that is, you know, very fun to have some leaders that proactively come to you
17:01
because then you already know it's, it's not gonna be like fighting a windmill.
17:05
I have another session with the leadership team at Telco Company where
17:09
the growth and innovation team came to me.
17:11
That's gonna be a lot different because I think the CEO and the CFO are not yet
17:16
really aware of what they're doing wrong.
17:18
But so what did-- I'll give you a couple of examples what we, what we did, and
17:22
I'll show you one concretely And I'll explain it for everybody who's listening.
17:26
So we're gonna have that one day that we designed as a custom playbook for
17:32
a strategy session on explore/exploit.
17:35
But before they come in, because we only have a day, it's, it's a
17:38
lot and it's little, right, at the same time for such busy people.
17:41
So what I got, you know, what I, I started working on with, with the,
17:46
uh, chief of staff is a couple of exercises that they need to do before
17:51
they come into the workshop so they already understand, oh, how does
17:57
exploitation and exploration clash?
18:00
You know, how can I compare two business models?
18:03
One of a core business, you know, like a city hotel, compared to
18:07
something that they're exploring.
18:09
How are they different?
18:10
Why might this get stuck?
18:12
Because they have a very rigorous process, right, to run some of
18:15
these things or open new hotels.
18:17
How does that clash when you apply those processes to something new?
18:22
So while when you kinda look at it, it almost seems trivial,
18:25
it's not in their daily thinking.
18:27
So that's, you know, uh, what we're trying to do.
18:29
So let me show you quick exercise that I got them to do.
18:33
There are three pre-exercises.
18:35
One of them is, um, looking at their business model.
18:38
What are their core business models that makes money?
18:40
The second one is comparing two business models.
18:42
But the third one I wanted them to already start to think portfolio, 'cause that's
18:46
what senior leadership teams should do.
18:48
So I said, "Hey, I'm gonna get you to map your business model
18:52
portfolio." So for anybody who knows me, I'm tool obsessed, right?
18:56
So we created a tool to help leadership teams manage their portfolio of existing
19:04
businesses, exploit, and manage their portfolio of new businesses, explore
19:09
things that they don't know how to do yet.
19:12
But you always need to take leadership teams from where they
19:14
are, where they feel comfortable.
19:16
So what I got them to do is to review how this business
19:20
portfolio map works, the tool.
19:22
I'll show you how that works.
19:24
Then I get them To place each business model that I put onto sticky notes
19:30
here, city hotels, beach resorts, island retreats, residences attached
19:36
to their hotels, you know, luxury villas, uh, luxury yachts, private jets.
19:41
Kind of fascinating how that whole domain of luxury hotels is, is
19:45
shifting from lodging to experiences.
19:48
That's a big shift, right?
19:49
Because if you're used to managing a hotel, you have no clue how
19:52
to manage experiences, right?
19:54
So that's, that's a really big exploration.
19:56
So they know these things here.
19:59
Then I get them to place them on a simple two-by-two for the exploit.
20:03
The, the businesses that they're running.
20:06
Is it-- So if you look at the spectrums here, we have high return, low return.
20:11
That's one side.
20:12
And then we have at the bottom death and disruption risk.
20:14
Is this, remember, you know, with the Bracken Darrell, is it a tree?
20:18
Is it a plant?
20:19
Is it a seed?
20:20
It's not even on here, right?
20:21
So profit engines, these are large, top right, like in any
20:25
good two-by-two by a consultant.
20:28
Top right, profit engines.
20:29
They're large, they're profitable, they're quite protected.
20:32
They're not vulnerable But then we might have, you know, engines at risk.
20:37
They're still making a lot of money, but they're under attack
20:41
from, you know, new entrants, from, disruptive technologies, et cetera.
20:46
And I get them just to pull over the sticky notes.
20:49
So now they have to say, "Okay, hey, city hotels. Where would we put that?
20:53
Oh, city hotels, still, you know, our big profit engine." They put it up here.
20:58
, What about, you know, let's say luxury yachts?
21:02
We actually don't do that yet, so it's not in the exploit portfolio.
21:05
We need to put that into the explore portfolio.
21:07
So what they start to do, and some companies are already good at this, right?
21:12
But what they start to do is understand that it's not about managing a
21:17
business or one core business model.
21:20
It's about really managing your portfolio.
21:24
Now, quite a few companies are good at managing the core portfolio, existing
21:28
businesses, but you need to start to open their mind to, well, guess what?
21:32
Some of these business models are vulnerable.
21:36
So if you're just focusing on lodging, you might actually, you know, lose your,
21:41
your most loyal clientele because they don't wanna stay at the same place.
21:45
They want to move towards experiences.
21:48
So do we have anything in the exploit portfolio?
21:51
Ah, no, we don't.
21:52
So we might want to, you know, start to look at these
21:55
experiences and start to explore.
21:58
So that's what senior leadership's team should do, is start
22:02
to look at the portfolio.
22:04
That's the strategic view.
22:07
And once you understand that, now you can design a governance -- system so
22:11
that every quarter or every year, at the very least, you look at the portfolio.
22:17
Is the exploit portfolio good enough?
22:20
Should we start to explore?
22:22
And the answer is very simple: You should probably start to explore today
22:27
unless you're doing a turnaround.
22:29
So, you know, , Hubert Joly from Best Buy, he said, "Alex, you know, we had
22:33
two years, we had to focus on turning around Best Buy, so it was all about
22:36
exploit. But once we had that done, we needed to immediately start to explore."
22:41
So it's these kinda simple exercises that I get the leadership teams
22:45
to do before they even come in.
22:47
I call that a custom playbook, and this is one of our visual
22:50
workspaces in those custom playbooks.
22:52
But these things can be designed.
22:55
Now, I don't think leadership teams are really good at designing these
22:59
kinds of workshops So that is the task of thinkers, of consultants.
23:04
But unfortunately, we go into too much detail around slide decks and,
23:10
you know, a lot of numbers rather than zooming out and saying, "Hey,
23:13
what's the strategic view here?
23:15
What are the simple questions we should address before we get to the
23:20
complexity?" There's enough space for complexity, but actually the pillars of
23:24
explore/exploit are pretty straightforward and simple, and you need to bring them
23:28
out and discuss them before you get into the details of implementation
23:32
it's so funny, man.
23:33
I, like, I'm so passionate about this work because I experienced the
23:37
difference from actually doing it.
23:39
I told you I came across your work in 2009,
23:43
2009.
23:44
And actually, do you remember the iPad app you brought out?
23:47
was really early.
23:48
It was an iPad app version of the Business Model Canvas.
23:51
So I think y- when you bought the book, you got a… book, actually,
23:55
the iPad app was, like, or something.
23:58
It was quite expensive, but it
23:59
Right.
24:00
Yep
24:00
it.
24:01
what I did with it was, with my team, partly this was, you
24:06
know, if you wanna learn, teach.
24:08
So I was actually showing my team how our business worked.
24:12
It was media.
24:13
And by unbundling the business into th- ba- basically Post-It notes, everybody
24:18
understood it differently, and then people were offering different ideas differently.
24:22
Because now they understood that their job wasn't just showing
24:26
up and doing tasks all the time.
24:28
It was more strategic.
24:29
And I think that's the thing.
24:30
People don't, they just don't have the lens.
24:32
Nobody's r- wrong or stupid or, know, ignorant.
24:37
, Well, actually, ignorant's probably the word b- because it
24:39
means you don't know something.
24:42
And once you know it, you can't unsee it.
24:44
That's the beauty of this work.
24:46
with these canvases, Alex, where, where can people find them?
24:49
'Cause I know you're so generous with Strategyzer, giving
24:52
away a lot of these tools.
24:53
You're democratizing tools, essentially, like you did with the canvas.
24:57
Where is the best place for people to find it?
24:58
And also, I'll let you know as well, for Innovation Show listeners, Alex
25:03
has kindly given us a discount code.
25:05
So INNOVATIONSHOW20 will get you 20% off any of the paid ones, but
25:09
there's lots of free ones as well.
25:11
Yeah.
25:12
So the tools themselves, like the portfolio map, we describe
25:16
it in our books, but we put all of that onto our website.
25:19
At Strategyzer.com, you'll find a lot of material that you can download, and
25:24
basically we want people to… And if, if you have the energy to kind of learn
25:28
on your own and you wanna go through the material, be, be our guest, right?
25:31
We want that to spread because we just want better business practices.
25:35
And then if you're really into, "You know what? I actually wanna get the result,
25:40
and I wanna use your stuff because you get me to the result faster with playbooks,"
25:44
they can sign up to our playbook library.
25:46
So the goal there is really to take all of the things we do with all
25:50
companies, you know, okay, map a portfolio map, and we put that into
25:54
our playbook library so people can get there faster just to do the task, right?
25:59
A book is about all these ideas.
26:01
A playbook is about getting one outcome and working towards that.
26:05
Understand the concepts, apply them like I just showed you.
26:08
So you get all of that on Strategyzer.com.
26:11
Awesome.
26:12
It's always a pleasure.
26:13
Author of The Invincible Company: Testing Business Ideas, High Impact
26:17
Tools For Teams, Value Proposition Design, Business Model Generation, and
26:22
the one that he doesn't have behind him but I do, for Kids, which is a
26:26
business model book to understa- for children to understand business models
26:30
because they're gonna need to someday.
26:32
Alexander Osterwalder, thank you for joining us
26:35
Thanks for having me.
26:36
Real pleasure
26:37
As always, thank you to our sponsor, Kyndryl, who runs and reimagines the
26:41
technology systems that drive advantage for the world's leading businesses.
26:46
With a unique blend of AI-powered consulting built on unmatched managed
26:50
service capability, Kyndryl helps leaders harness the power of technology for
26:54
smarter decisions, faster innovation, and a lasting competitive edge.
26:58
You can find Kyndryl at K-Y-N-D-R-Y-L, Kyndryl.com