Latest / Real Money with Lisa Chastain / God Doesn't Want Your Perfection. He Wants Your Surrender | REAL MONEY

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God Doesn't Want Your Perfection. He Wants Your Surrender | REAL MONEY · Real Money with Lisa Chastain

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Welcome to Real Money with Lisa Chastain.
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Lisa Chastain is a best selling author and money coach known for
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her work in money mindset and financial transformation.
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Her approach focuses on the truth that money is emotional
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before it's mathematical, and that lasting financial freedom
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begins with changing the way we think, feel, and behave with
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money. On this show, Lisa explores the
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psychology of wealth, abundance mindset, financial literacy, and
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the deeper beliefs that shape everything from debt and income
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to entrepreneurship, side hustles, and building multiple
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income streams. If you're ready to shift your
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relationship with money and step into a stronger wealth mindset,
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you're in the right place. Here's your host, Lisa Chastain.
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Welcome to REAL MONEY with Lisa Chastain.
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Welcome back to another episode of REAL MONEY with Lisa
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Chastain. I'm your host, Lisa Chastain.
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And today we're going to have an open, honest, real conversation
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about what it's like for me personally to be navigating my
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own faith as I navigate business, parenthood, and all
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the things that our world is up to right now and the big
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transitions that are coming our way as women.
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And also, I have my special guest, Chris Lowe.
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She's a licensed therapist here in Las Vegas, had some amazing
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conversations with Chris. I just adore her.
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And she works specifically with Christian women who are high
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achievers navigating success, family life, business, all the
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things. And for the first time ever in
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real money, we're having an open, honest conversation about
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what it's like to walk our journey of faith.
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I'm taking a risk on this one. Don't worry, we're not here to
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preach to you. But I hope that you'll be able
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to uncover something for yourself and your relationship
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with God as we have this open, honest and vulnerable
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conversation. Let's get it started.
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For whatever reason, I'm sure this is this is just God calling
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me to take a risk because I've never actually had a
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conversation about faith on the podcast.
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And as Christian women, yeah, we've had some pretty soulful
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conversations about our faith and using God to guide us.
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And so to my audience today, be open, be open to this
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conversation. And my question for you as
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you're listening today is what does God mean to you?
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And in what way is God working in your life and calling you
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forward as a Christian woman for myself?
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And then I know Chris, you and I are going to just dig into this
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and talk about this is I believe that as a follower of Jesus, I'm
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being called to love as Jesus has loved and as he's shown us
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love and that everyone, everyone is worthy of love and
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forgiveness. I'm still wrestling with the
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journey of being a woman, walking in faith of knowing my
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calling. I just had this conversation
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with my best friend on the on the wait to the office this
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morning of like, are we fulfilling our purpose?
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Are we living the, the work and the way that God has called us
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to? And how do we know?
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And so Chris, let's just open it up.
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How are you wrestling with your journey of faith today?
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I'm very very loaded. Question.
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I love that and it's a really good question because I think
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that wrestling is a great word to use.
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There is a a space where, you know, you think you're doing the
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things that he wants you to do. You think you are engaging in a
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way that is reflective of him. And I'm still a work in
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progress. You know, it still often
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experience the difficulty of the emotional distress that I'm
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often under and trying to navigate the space of my
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emotions and my faith is often a a difficult space to be in, but
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I am still on the journey. I'm also still working to be
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more Christ like. I'm still working to be a
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living, breathing reflection of who He has been to me.
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And being loving not just to other people but to myself is a
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very, very big part of that journey is really learning how
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to engage from a perspective of God's love, not just for myself
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or other people as well. Man, our world is so sensitive
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to this topic right now. It's so sensitive to the
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conversation of God and Christianity versus other
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religions, and it's being weaponized and politicized.
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And to me, my journey, my walk with God right now is a journey
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of love and really wanting to emulate the love that Jesus
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showed for us. In what ways is that showing up
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for you right now in the world today?
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I love that. I think it shows up for me
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specifically in the way that I trust him.
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Trust is a very big question mark for me right now.
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And not because I don't want to, not because I don't think that I
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trust him, but because oftentimes, considering the
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state of the world, not just our country, but just the things
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that are happening politically, spiritually, internationally,
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you find yourself getting caught up in the day-to-day of what's
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actually happening in front of you.
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And it's funny, I read a scripture this morning that
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talked about, you know, the things that you're seeing are
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they're temporary. Do not focus on the things that
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you can see, but you need to be focusing on what's unseen.
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And so trying to remember that that what's in front of me is
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temporal is a very, it's a day-to-day struggle.
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It's hard. Yes, I'm rested every day.
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You know, it's very difficult to to continue to be encouraged
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when there is so much calamity happening in the world and so
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much and so being able to be rooted and trusting him really
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Proverbs, I think it's 3-4. Trust in the Lord with all of
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your heart and lean not onto your own understanding.
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That is one of my favorite scriptures right now because I
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don't need to rest and lean into and settle into what I know to
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be true. I need to be able to trust and
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know that he's got me. And no matter what it looks like
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out here, no matter how, cuz it's really windy out there
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right now, no matter how windy it is, you know he's still going
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to be the constant he is. He never changes.
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He doesn't become moved by the constant waves of the weather or
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the shifts in the weather that we experience.
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Yeah, he doesn't. You're working with clients
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actively, and you're on a mission to work with women,
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women business owners, women who are facing burnout.
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You have such a calming, peaceful, living presence.
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I can imagine a client, whether they're with you virtually or
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not, as soon as they get into your space, they can just for a
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moment in their day, breathe and slow down.
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What challenges? I know it because that's how I
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feel when I'm in your space. What are the what are the things
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that women, business owners, entrepreneurs, high achievers?
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What are some of the challenges they're coming to you with right
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now? Yeah.
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I think without even realizing it, they are coming to me with
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different things. I'm noticing a pattern of
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overcompensation and over functioning.
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That's a very, very common thing that we see in high achievement
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women. If you think about things in a
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terms of like a physical injury, a lot of sometimes if you, if
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you hurt your right ankle, you might find that you're putting
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more weight on the left leg just naturally you're not trying to,
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it's just happening because we're overcompensating.
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And that leg isn't necessarily meant to carry and sustain that
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weight for an extended amount of time, but it does it because
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it's just doing what it needs to do.
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And that's often it happened to us on a psychological
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standpoint, specifically for high achievement women, we might
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find that we're overcompensating in various different ways,
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whether it's for the internal stress we're experiencing,
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whether it's for the expectations we ourselves are
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placing on us, whether it's thoughts of perfectionism.
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Those things influence us and they show up in our day-to-day.
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And so those are a lot of the concerns that I'm often seeing.
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It's really just important to remember that although on the
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outside things can look like we're functioning great, we're
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functioning perfectly. On the inside we're often over
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burdened, over weighed. We're weighed down with all of
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the things that we are carrying that we weren't meant to carry
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for such a long period of time and so.
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What are some of those things? Some of those things are often
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the responsibility of other people.
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We're also we're often emotionally over functioning for
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other people. We're often thinking for other
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people, planning, strategizing around what other people might
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be doing or what they're not doing.
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And so we're taking on a lot more to be able to manage and
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just be in a space of like, I'm OK, everything is taken care.
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Of and yeah, that sounds like. That sounds like to me like a
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pattern of codependency. Is that what it is?
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Yeah, yes, there is that too. There's layers and I, I don't
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like to say it in a way that makes it sound like it's just
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this because there are many factors that lead to the state
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of being overwhelmed, which high achieving women are often
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overwhelmed and burned out and just tired.
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And it makes. Sense just tired.
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We are carrying a lot a carrying a lot that we weren't
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necessarily meant to. Like I said, carrying the
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invisible load oftentimes specifically if you're the the
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social implications that come in certain settings, the certain
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instances as being a woman in a male dominated business, those
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sorts of things are weighty. And when we're carrying that and
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we don't necessarily we experience fatigue, what we
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often think is well, I'm weak or I'm not able to, I'm at this is
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a failure and it's not necessarily a sign of failure.
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It's a signal that you are carrying more than you were
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meant to carry, and we're not necessarily having adequate
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support boundaries or even restorative practices.
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That's a lot to unpack right there.
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It is a lot all. Right, so let's start here.
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Perfectionism. OK, we're going to talk about
10:20
perfectionism right after this break.
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Hey, stop blaming yourself about the choices you're making with
10:26
money. Your money patterns aren't
10:28
random. Take the money personality test
10:30
and find out who you truly are. Link is in the show notes.
10:33
OK, we're back. Perfectionism as a Christian
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woman for so long. So my story, my background story
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is I was born and raised in a Christian household, Southern
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Baptist household. My dad's Southern Baptist.
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He was raised in the South. He moved here from Atlanta, GA.
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And Southern Baptists have a lot of, and I don't know how they've
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changed over the years because I stopped going to church when I
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was like 12 or 13. But at that time it, it felt
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like you had to do things the right way all the time.
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And religion for me as a young girl was a lot of I had to be
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perfect to be perfect in the eyes of Jesus.
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Now Fast forward I'm 46. That is not that is definitely
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not the way that I view Christianity and life and
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relationship with God. It's really actually the
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opposite is that it's all about the imperfect and, and and being
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in the struggle of our, you know, of our relationship with
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God and that we don't have to be perfect.
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And actually God loves us more because we aren't perfect
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because the only perfect person is God and Jesus, right.
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So like all the things I'm over analyzing this, but there's so
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much pressure in the Christian community of this like
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conversation that just because we're Christian, that we have to
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be perfect and all. We have to be perfect wise.
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We have to be perfect siblings. We have to be perfect business
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owners. And if we're not, we're not
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doing it right. Are you hearing that?
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Is that coming up in conversation with your clients?
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Yes, absolutely. And it doesn't always come up in
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that exact wording, but there is this ongoing striving to be a
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level of perfect that is just not for ourselves, for any of
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us. And, and myself included.
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I do find myself in the race of trying to do everything's and
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everything in a specific way or just perfectly without allowing
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the space for me to allow God to swoop in.
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The perfectionism. The more that we are engaging in
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that, that practice of trying to be all and everything to
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everyone in the best way, we're not allowing this space for
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God's grace to to speak, to live, to breathe in that gap
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where we can't handle all of the things we weren't meant.
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And, and just as I was saying a while ago in terms of
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overcompensating, we weren't meant to carry certain things.
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We weren't meant to be all and everything to everyone.
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And so being able to recognize one, it's OK to not have it.
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It's OK to not be able to do. It's OK to say I'm tapped out or
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that isn't for me because everything isn't for everyone.
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And being able to recognize that is a part of the journey to
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loving other people well and loving yourselves well.
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And so I think that a part of this is being able to allow
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yourself the space of saying, I don't, I don't know, I.
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I don't know. I don't know.
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I don't have it. I don't have the answer.
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I do it. I'm I'm not.
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Because we really are dependent on God.
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We really are dependent. And the more that we can realize
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that and allow ourselves to be in that child father like
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relationship, the more we can release the pressure of being
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perfect, if that makes sense. It makes total sense because the
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the the journey of perfectionism for me is what broke me.
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I was, I was so scared that if people knew all the things
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behind the scenes that weren't working for me, that my marriage
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was falling apart, that that my finances were a mess, that my
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business wasn't going the way that I thought it wanted to go.
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But I was, I was so busy building this protection around
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me and this essence. This was over a decade ago when
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it all came to a head. I ended up in a situation in my
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life where there was there like it had all fallen apart.
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It had all broken away, which is ultimately how I found my way
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back to church and how my how I found my way back to God because
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I was like, I am tapped out. Yes.
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I am. And that was the, it was the
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first time in my life that I actually found myself in an
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office with a therapist too, because I was like, all right,
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what I have not what I've been doing is not working.
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I'm burned out, I'm stressed out, I'm sad.
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I've been giving myself away to all of these people for so long.
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And it like, it felt like everything shattered around me
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and came crashing down and it was just me and God.
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It's like, now what do I do? But I think what I'm hearing you
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say is that you have to, you have to let that quiet in,
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settle in to even allow that connection and that guidance.
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Because you're right. Like we're just humans.
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We're what, what are we capable of?
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Well, nothing really, unless we have God's provision.
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Is that what I'm hearing you say?
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Absolutely. And I like what I like the way
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that you phrased it and the way that you said it.
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And honestly, I think that that's the biggest thing that we
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need to be able to remember is that we do things because God
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allows us to. He allows us these wonderful
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bodies and these bodies that contain all of these different
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emotional experiences. And those emotions are not to be
15:40
feared. They are a part of our human
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experience. They are indicators, signals.
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One of the things, a part of what we want to be doing in that
15:49
space is starting to notice. Notice that you are you're the
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pressure to strive and notice that why you're doing what
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you're doing, being able to question and in that space be
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still so that you can actually hear the the answer, the
16:06
response. We're often so busy, we're often
16:09
moving and striving so much to attain that level of
16:13
perfectionism or other things that we're doing, engaging in
16:17
that. We're not being still in the to
16:19
guide us. We're trying to do the guiding.
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We're trying to do the planning. We're trying to exalt ourselves
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in different ways rather than being able to exalt him.
16:29
And I think when you were speaking, a part of what I heard
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is you kind of get to this space where you come to the end of
16:35
yourself and you start to rest. Exactly it.
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You know, and you start to acknowledge and admit the truth
16:41
of where you are. And I think that there's so much
16:44
of us trying to cover up who we really are authentically, that
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we're hiding ourselves not just from the world, but we're hiding
16:52
ourselves from us and from God. We're not even truthful about
16:57
where we are. And until we can acknowledge the
17:00
emotion, acknowledge the sadness, acknowledge where we
17:04
are, will continue to be in this this race, this striving space
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to get to a certain level of perfectionism that really
17:13
doesn't exist for us. That's right.
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Does the pressure to be the strong one show differently in
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women who are also deeply committed to our faith?
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Yes. Right.
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I believe that there is a level of, I want to say pride that we
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can engage in when it comes to that.
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We, we often are not able to acknowledge just the reality and
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the truth of where we are. We often are in this space of, I
17:39
would say not admitting, not admitting.
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And there is this ongoing battle that we have with ourselves
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internally to present in a certain way, to present a
17:51
specific image, to present a certain strength and a certain
17:54
quality that we have. And a part of that I think looks
17:58
like being able to handle or carry a lot, being able to do
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certain things that almost like a yes, yes, I got it.
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Sure, sure. Without really taking into
18:09
account what's true for you, Can you handle that?
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Does God want you to handle that?
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Did you pause long enough to notice if this is in alignment
18:18
with what his will is for your life?
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Or are you just going, going, going, going, going, going,
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going because of the notion of the preaching or the belief that
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I have to be the strong one I do?
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Where does that come from? Well, a lot of that can come
18:32
from court beliefs. It can come from our background,
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our upbringing. It also can come from the
18:37
relationship that we actually have with our parents, right?
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And so how we protect onto God, even how we project onto other
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people about those primary relationships that we have.
18:50
But a lot of that is established from our core beliefs, who we
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saw, how did we see strength modelled as we grew up?
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What did our mothers do or what didn't they do?
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Those are different things that we we have absorbed throughout
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our lifetimes. Again, they are part of the
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storyline that we replay back to ourselves.
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This is what strength looks like.
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This is what it takes to be a strong woman.
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This is what I'm strong to be. And strong or strength doesn't
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always look like admitting that I can't.
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And and to our that's the way that we perceive it.
19:27
A lot of strong women doing some really strong things right now.
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Yeah. And we are.
19:32
Strong, we are strong, we are strong, but I think that looking
19:36
at strength from a expansive perspective is helpful.
19:40
Strength does not have to look like what the world says
19:44
strength is. It doesn't have to be loud, it
19:48
doesn't have to be silent. Strength can be flexible.
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God is flexible. His strength is amazing and the
19:55
way that he shows us, his strength shows up differently in
19:59
different spaces and I think the more flexibility we can allow
20:03
with how we view. Strength the more it can allow
20:07
us to take a space of humility rather than being prideful with
20:11
where we have to be in, in terms of how people view us.
20:15
I think you bring up a great point because I have so many
20:17
women in my world and to who are the dreamer money personality
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and so I have the five money personalities.
20:23
The dreamer money personality is the one that thinks big and
20:27
dreams big. And then we wrap success into
20:29
that And in the external ego, in the ego world, the non soul
20:34
world, the the notion of success.
20:36
And Wayne Dyer talks about this a lot.
20:38
I don't know if you're familiar with Wayne Dyer's work, but I
20:40
just absolutely love him. He talks about the ego in the
20:43
soul. But anyway, in the ego world,
20:45
the non soul world, we're wrapped up in this idea notion
20:49
of what success really is and what it looks like and it feels
20:52
like. And so many of us connect that
20:53
directly to money. So then therefore, if money is
20:56
our way to success, then then we have to have money and lots and
21:00
lots and lots and lots of money to be successful.
21:04
But in that same breath, what you just said was so important
21:08
is that the people who value success or we want to achieve
21:11
success, our Achilles heel is vulnerability.
21:15
And so we put on this mask of being strong because being
21:19
vulnerable looks or feels weak. But in the eyes of God, it's
21:24
actually the vulnerability that brings us closer to our truest
21:28
selves, which has nothing to do with the ultimate like that kind
21:32
of success. Or, you know, you don't have to
21:34
have ability $1,000,000 to be loved.
21:36
You don't have to have $1,000,000 to be loved because
21:40
you're already loved. But we forget that and we get
21:43
off track. How do we get back on track?
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I love that question. I, I, I do.
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I think that a part of the way that we get back on track is by
21:52
meeting ourselves where we are. What I mean?
21:55
Sounds scary, I don't want to do that.
21:59
And honestly, that's honestly what gets us into a lot of
22:03
difficulty is the perception of what that process is going to
22:08
look and feel like, right? It's like, I do not want to do
22:11
that. That does not sound exciting.
22:13
It's not, it's not something that is appealing to us, but
22:17
it's where the growth happens. It's where the difference is
22:20
made. And so starting to reflect on
22:23
what matters to you, where your values lie is really important,
22:29
important there, being able to clarify what's important.
22:32
And I think that being flexible around that is very, very
22:36
important because where you are in your youth is a lot different
22:40
than where you are in your mid 20s versus your 30s and 40s.
22:43
And you want to be flexible to allow what is important to you
22:47
to shift. When I was younger, I was a big
22:50
paper chaser. Money was a very big deal to me
22:53
and it very much so dictated what I thought success meant.
22:57
But as I have grown and as I have, I would say gotten closer
23:02
in my walk with God and I have become more authentic to I who I
23:07
am, I do recognize that is where the bread and butter is.
23:11
That's where the beauty of who you really are lies.
23:15
That is the person that God created you to be.
23:18
He didn't create us to be a spirit being who was fearful,
23:24
who was walking around of various emotional experience and
23:28
different experiences. So the more that we can start to
23:32
acknowledge where we truly are by asking what matters, what
23:36
matters to me, what really truly matters to me, that's going to
23:40
help reconnect you with your values, is going to help to
23:45
navigate the space of overwhelm or confusion or frustration that
23:50
we might often experience in the space of trying to create our
23:55
own definition of success or adhere to the world's definition
23:59
of success. And so I think a lot of it is
24:02
really starting with clarifying what matters most to you, where
24:06
your values lie, and also the way that you want to show up in
24:10
those different valued life areas.
24:12
That's really, really important to helping you navigate.
24:16
It's like the the golden compass.
24:18
Your values can be a great compass to help you navigate
24:22
life's difficulties, including the different definitions of
24:26
success and strength and just different terminology that we
24:30
use all the time. It really helps us to stand firm
24:34
on what's important to us. You're speaking my language,
24:36
Chris. This is what the podcast is all
24:39
about is values based living instead of following gurus who
24:44
don't really care about you at the end of the day, but you do
24:47
care about your clients. And we're going to talk about
24:49
ways that you're helping them real time right after the break.
24:51
Pause. If you're successful on paper
24:54
but still don't feel as powerful as you know you can be with
24:58
money, the wealth within is where we change all of that.
25:01
Link is in the show notes. OK, we're back for a break.
25:03
This is so good, Chris. This is so good.
25:06
This is so. This is exactly why I wanted to
25:08
have you on the show because this is so atypical of a money
25:13
conversation on a money podcast. And I'm sure it's pushing some
25:18
of you up against the edges having these conversations about
25:21
God. I know, I know, so many of you
25:23
are wrestling in your own relationship about religion in
25:27
general right now because it's like on fire politically.
25:31
And there are lots of conversations about religion
25:34
right now and what it means and what it doesn't mean.
25:37
But ultimately, let's bring it full circle because what I'm
25:40
hearing you say over and over and over and over again is that
25:44
when it comes to our relationship with ourselves to
25:47
connect with God, it just comes back to being real, being open,
25:53
being honest with yourself, and being connected to your values.
25:57
And when we really have the courage as women specifically to
26:00
do that, does it not always come back to love?
26:04
And does it not always come back to our relationship with God and
26:08
our purpose for being on this planet?
26:11
Yeah, yeah. It's so important.
26:13
I think one thing that I'd like to to make sure that I I'm
26:16
saying is whatever your relationship is with God, know
26:20
that he is love regardless. He does not look at you with
26:25
disdain or anything of that nature.
26:28
He looks at you with love. He loves everyone.
26:31
When he sent his son, he sent his son here for everyone, not
26:36
for just a few. That's really important because
26:39
I think that the way that we perceive that relationship in
26:42
his nature, our actions hinge on that.
26:45
And so the more that we can engage and connect with our true
26:49
authentic self, the more that we are, we are not engaging with
26:55
the versions of ourselves that have been impacted by life's
27:00
experiences and challenges. We are able to really
27:04
acknowledge what those challenges, those situations
27:08
have meant to us and how they've caused us to feel.
27:12
The more that we can be truthful about that with ourselves, the
27:15
more that we can be truthful about that with God and
27:18
surrender those things to him. Our emotions, though difficult
27:23
sometimes to handle, they can be very, very big, and they're not
27:28
things to be fearful of. We don't want to get into a
27:31
space of continuous avoidance of certain emotions and then train
27:37
our brains to recognize emotions as threats.
27:41
They're not threats. They are signals to what is
27:44
happening to us and what is happening in front of us and for
27:48
us. And the more that we can be
27:49
still, the more that we can acknowledge those experiences
27:54
and that we can lean into them, the more that we are capable of
27:58
surrendering those moments, those feelings, those situations
28:02
to God and letting him handle it.
28:05
There is such a free in being able to let somebody else handle
28:09
your lightweight. There is such a great feeling
28:12
that comes along with knowing that somebody else has your
28:15
back, even if you don't fully see all of the ways that they
28:19
have your back. And so the more that we can
28:22
knowledge those moments and be truthful with ourselves, the
28:26
more it does allow us to connect with God and it really allows us
28:30
to let him steer our pathways rather than us trying to get
28:35
back onto that race or into that striving space and, and just
28:40
taking the steering wheel for ourselves.
28:42
I know, yeah, it's, it's a, it's the masculine versus the
28:45
feminine in some ways. Like go, do, go, push, go, you
28:48
know, go keep working harder versus surrendering.
28:52
And that's exactly where I was going to take this conversation
28:55
anyway because that is where I struggle the most and also where
28:59
I find the most amount of freedom.
29:02
So perfect example, I've been on my entrepreneurial journey for
29:05
over a decade. How long have you been on yours?
29:07
Five years now. Years.
29:09
OK, so it doesn't even though like certain things get easier
29:13
the walk with God and the trust and the surrender still
29:17
something that I work on every single day where like there's I
29:22
was just having this conversation with my best friend
29:24
GAIL shout out GAIL on the way here.
29:26
She and I are both in our walk of faith and it's just it's
29:29
every single day me waking up and going.
29:31
Are you sure? Are you sure?
29:33
You know, the, the, what was planted in my heart over, you
29:38
know, years and years and years ago?
29:40
I've been pursuing and it's not been perfect.
29:44
It's not been easy. Some days I just like, I don't
29:48
even want to get out of bed. Yeah, honestly, I, I love what I
29:51
do. I love being on this podcast
29:53
with you. I love all the work that I do
29:55
with my clients. But some days I'm just like,
29:57
what? What am I doing with my life?
29:59
This does not make sense. Why?
30:01
Why don't I just go get a job and play it safe, you know?
30:05
Yeah. And it's me in conversations
30:07
with me and me in conversations with God of like, what the fuck
30:10
am I doing right now? Yeah, what am I doing?
30:13
And so the surrender and letting go also on the flip side of
30:15
that, and I'd love for you to chime in on this, is on the flip
30:18
side of that is me just going, I just, I'm just going to give
30:21
this to God today. Like my child.
30:23
I'm going to give my teenage son to God today.
30:25
I do not have the capacity. Yes.
30:30
And I'm able to rest and slow down and like, breathe and just
30:34
take a step. Yeah.
30:35
How do you handle all? How do you handle all of the
30:38
pressures? You've got kids.
30:39
You've got your business, you've got your husband.
30:41
Well, I will. I was a big sign.
30:42
It was because what you said is absolutely true.
30:46
It's real time for me. It's real time actively,
30:49
proactively working on surrendering and trusting, not
30:54
picking it back up. But that's a part of my problem
30:57
is I say, oh, here you go, like I'm done with this God.
31:00
Like I need you to take it over. And then before you know it, I'm
31:02
over here problem solving and like trying to figure it out and
31:05
I'm worried about it or what have you.
31:07
And so it is a real time thing for me.
31:11
And a part of what I, I do is I absolutely have my practices.
31:16
I have, I see my own therapist and I love her.
31:20
She's wonderful. I definitely talk about things
31:25
with different friends. That's a part of me taking care
31:28
of myself, not holding everything into myself because
31:31
those conversations between me, myself and myself, they don't go
31:36
the greatest. They don't.
31:40
And so even when I try to bring God into those conversations,
31:43
it's a lot of me. Like, he didn't say that.
31:45
No, he didn't say that we're going to do it.
31:47
So a lot of it is me being able to 1 like get outside of my
31:52
mindset and and get into somebody else's like so talking
31:56
to other people, engaging with other people, the people that I
31:59
do life with and that I really trust to be able to support me
32:02
in different sensitive or difficult spaces.
32:05
Big, big deal. It is a very big deal for me to
32:08
take care of myself in a multi dimensional way.
32:11
I really try to make sure that I am taking care of myself
32:14
spiritually. I try to take care of myself
32:16
physically, whether that means that I am drinking wine, water
32:20
or that I am because water is a thing for me to stay hydrated is
32:24
a really big intentional practice for me.
32:27
You know, I really try to just take care of myself.
32:29
These are some of the ways that I proactively manage myself so
32:34
that I can continue to reflect on what's important, reflect on
32:38
what matters. And really what matters to me is
32:41
my relationship with God. I do want to be, to be obedient.
32:46
And a part of my obedience is my willingness to surrender certain
32:50
things. And a lot of times, if I'm being
32:52
honest, I'm not always willing to surrender certain things.
32:56
There are certain things that I am still proactively wanting to
33:00
control and manage. And This is why at the beginning
33:03
of our conversation, I mentioned I really am working on trying to
33:06
trust Him with my whole heart and lean not into my own
33:10
understanding. Because the more that I'm
33:11
resting on what I see and what I understand to be true, the more
33:16
I'm going to take. I'm picking it back up and it
33:18
really impacts my ability to surrender.
33:22
So it is a ongoing day-to-day consistent practice of checking
33:27
in with myself, consistent practice of checking in with
33:31
him, consistent practice of asking why I'm doing what I'm
33:34
doing. Because if I'm doing it for me
33:37
or for the the love of man or for any other reason than what
33:42
God has asked me to do that I need to question that.
33:45
Yeah, yeah, I think we all do. Yeah, at the end of the day, I
33:49
think we all do. Like who are we?
33:51
Who are we? All right, last couple of
33:52
questions. This is a loaded one, but I
33:55
would love your thoughts because I'm sure someone that is
33:57
listening to this right now has the same question.
33:59
How do you help someone differentiate between healthy
34:02
surrender and emotional avoidance?
34:05
Disguise disfaith that's. A good question.
34:08
I'm like, well, I think I would start with what avoidance looks
34:13
like, right? Avoidance is going to be you're
34:18
engaging in things that provide you temporary relief.
34:22
And so it could like things like I really need to have this
34:27
conversation with my husband. I don't want to, I'm going to,
34:31
you know what, let me go see what, what my kid is doing.
34:34
Let me go check on the dishes, let me clean up a little bit,
34:36
let me take the dogs for a walk. So I might start engaging in
34:39
other things that look productive or look healthy
34:43
enough, but I'm actually avoiding something that is very,
34:46
very difficult for me. So what I would encourage people
34:50
to do oftentimes is to notice, is there a difficult feeling
34:55
that you are pushing back from or you're resisting that's going
34:58
to help you recognize if you are or avoiding, if you are
35:02
surrendering in a healthy way, you are acknowledging your
35:06
emotions. You're not resisting them,
35:08
you're not fighting them, you're not trying to suppress them or
35:11
get rid of them. You're not cultivating a life
35:14
that is founded on how do I get rid of this feeling?
35:18
You are cultivating a life that is built on.
35:21
How do I still show up as the person that God has asked me to
35:25
be, even though I feel so uncomfortable right now?
35:29
Even though I really don't want to have this conversation, or I
35:32
really don't want to talk to the supervisor, or I really don't
35:37
want to event even though I have this really difficult feeling?
35:41
How do I still show up and be present and do what he's asked
35:45
me to do? And if you're avoiding, you're
35:48
going to find yourself not doing the thing.
35:50
You're going to find yourself backing out of it if you are
35:54
doing what's called healthy surrender.
35:56
If you're engaging in healthy surrender, then you're
35:58
acknowledging where you are. There's no resistance towards
36:02
it. We're actively making space for
36:05
that emotional experience and talking to God about it.
36:10
I'm not acting like it doesn't. I'm not acting like it's the
36:13
elephant in the room. I'm pro I.
36:15
Wanna know how I do it? Tell me.
36:16
I'm telling on myself, I will. And I know other people do this
36:19
too. I'm telling on YouTube.
36:21
Maybe not you, Chris, but other people.
36:23
My, my avoidance sounds a lot like, let me just give this to
36:27
God. That's not right.
36:30
You know what? I don't want to deal with this
36:31
right now. I'm just gonna avoid it and I'm
36:34
just going to give it to God. Yeah, but then I'm never going
36:37
to come back around to it. I love that you said avoid.
36:40
I love that you said that. And I've done that.
36:44
I absolutely have done that. There are things that I don't
36:46
want to look at. I don't feel like it.
36:49
I'm tired of it. I mean, I've been thinking a
36:51
lot. I've been problem solving.
36:53
I've already done all of the problem solving on it, just came
36:57
to God. I don't even want to be bothered
36:59
with it. I'm praying on it and the
37:01
avoidance of it is still like not looking at it.
37:04
I referenced it in terms of I just can't look at it.
37:07
It's like those things that you want, I just can't, I won't look
37:11
at it. And the more you are not looking
37:14
at it, the more you are engaging in avoidance.
37:17
You can put a bow on it. You can say that you are talking
37:20
to God about it if you're not coming back to it, if you're not
37:24
allowing him to meet you in the middle, if you're not allowing
37:28
him to meet you in the discomfort, there's a likely a
37:31
level of avoidance happening. And you can very quickly and
37:35
easily doing that. Do that by by surrendering it to
37:41
God, by giving it to Him before you have sat with it.
37:44
If you haven't sat with it, then you don't know about it, you
37:48
haven't looked at it, you haven't explored it, you haven't
37:51
allowed the heaviness of the situation or the gravity of
37:55
whatever is occurring to really sit with you so that you can
37:59
give it to that. You can recognize I can't deal
38:01
with this. Yeah, that's right.
38:03
Yeah. You bring up such a good
38:05
example. And side note really quick, what
38:07
you're speaking into brings me back to a time in my life where
38:10
I was going through my divorce. I was not legally divorced yet.
38:15
This is years and years and years ago, not legally divorced
38:18
yet, but I had a rebound. This is like, I was not going to
38:20
church. I was not connected to God.
38:22
I was super lost. I was super angry, super
38:24
frustrated, like just trying to figure stuff out.
38:27
I was ashamed that I was getting a divorce.
38:28
Like all the things. I was not talking to anybody.
38:30
It definitely wasn't going to God about this and sitting with
38:34
it and being with it. I found out I was pregnant in my
38:38
rebound relationship. So I had a rebound relationship.
38:42
Not telling anybody, hiding it. Not divorced yet in a rebound
38:46
relationship. Found out I was pregnant and I
38:48
already had Connor, who is my at that time, he was like 8.
38:52
I was like, what am I doing with my life right now?
38:55
And I called GAIL. I called GAIL who had she's the
38:58
one that invited me to church. So I'm, I'm putting these pieces
39:01
together for those of you who are like in a mess of your life
39:04
right now, whether it's financially we're going to close
39:06
the show out with this is I was in a mess and I was not slowing
39:10
down. I was not paying attention.
39:12
I was definitely overwhelmed. I definitely needed Chris as my
39:15
therapist at that time in my life, but I wasn't reaching out
39:19
my hand and asking for help. And I had all this feedback
39:22
around me that like things were not going my way, which God has
39:25
a way of doing this, by the way, in our lives of like throwing
39:28
the storm our way to like wake us up.
39:30
I believe that's what was happening.
39:32
So I'm pregnant and I'm just beside myself.
39:35
Like there's no way I can have a kid right now.
39:37
So I called my best friend GAIL and I was I was in my car.
39:41
And this is what she said, Chris.
39:42
She said, friend, you need to sit with this.
39:45
You need to be with this. You need to sit in your dirty
39:48
diaper right now. There is nothing you can do.
39:51
And I think that's exactly what you're saying, Chris, is you
39:53
have to sit with it. Yeah.
39:55
Get quiet. Stop trying to do your way out
39:58
of whatever you're in. And that's the opening.
40:01
Yeah. That's the that's the
40:04
opportunity, the surrender to get quiet and realize that you
40:08
can't do this on your own. And you were never meant to do
40:11
it on your own. And here we are a coach and a
40:13
therapist, help people and support people.
40:17
Right. But we both have a strong
40:19
relationship in our faith. And as as many tools as we as we
40:23
could give on this podcast and as many to do's journaling, all
40:27
the things that we would typically say, hey, work through
40:30
this. I'm taking a risk on my podcast
40:32
today by sharing with my audience.
40:34
Hey, at the end of the day, there's there's God in the
40:37
equation too. Yeah, what is it?
40:39
I know that was a lot to unload on you.
40:41
What do you want to make sure our audience hears as we
40:44
closeout this conversation today?
40:45
I think you actually summarized it really well.
40:48
Pause. We need to observe, breathe,
40:51
just do that. Stop, observe and breathe.
40:54
We go through so many different things on a day-to-day basis.
40:57
We're not actively, actively stopping and just sitting for a
41:01
moment and noticing what's happened, checking in with
41:04
ourselves. So we need to stop, observe, and
41:06
breathe. That's your moment to check in.
41:09
That's your moment to see how the day's been.
41:11
How's the week been? How's the 2026 starting out for
41:15
us so far? Where are we?
41:17
We're not always checking in with ourselves.
41:20
We're just allowing life to drive us around rather than just
41:24
pausing. Hey, where are we going?
41:26
Are we actually headed where I wanted to go?
41:29
No, we're not. Or yes, we are.
41:31
The point is to pause. We need to pause.
41:34
And I love, thank God for GAIL. OK, Because that was a great
41:39
timely word and her being able to say to you, you got to sit in
41:42
it. And sometimes you just got to
41:44
sit in it. You have to sit in it.
41:46
You have to allow yourself to be in that spot.
41:50
And I promise, if you let go of the reins of trying to have
41:54
control, he will meet you in the middle of it.
41:57
Of that dirty diaper. The Dirty diaper.
41:59
It's not fun. I know.
42:01
All right. So give us some steps out of it
42:03
then. So we sit with it.
42:04
We sit with it and then what? And then from there, you
42:09
practically start by praying, right?
42:12
You pray, you pray, you talk to God, you tell him what what
42:15
you're really feeling. Let's start there.
42:18
One of the things that you said is that you were angry, you were
42:20
mad, you were upset. Tell him he knows and he's not
42:24
intimidated by your emotions. We are more intimidated by our
42:28
emotions than he is. And so about it, express it,
42:32
journal it. The point is for you to be able
42:34
to process it. So you can even talk to him
42:37
about it and surrender it to him.
42:39
Those are the practical steps that you want to take.
42:42
You can start by talking about it.
42:44
Talk about it with a trusted friend or support like a Gale.
42:48
If you have a therapist in your corner, you can explore these
42:52
things with your therapist. If you have a support group,
42:55
these are great places to go to or to turn to.
42:58
If you are in a church family or you have a church home, these
43:01
are great places to be able to talk through those things.
43:04
If you don't have adequate connections or connections to
43:08
those types of supports, journal journaling is a really great way
43:12
of getting through and processing through your thoughts
43:15
and your feelings. This is not like trying to
43:18
describe the whole, your whole life.
43:20
This is really just talking about where you are, what's
43:23
happening for you. The point is for you to be able
43:26
to process. It's for you to be able to think
43:28
about what's happening and then think about how you feel about
43:31
it. Until you know any of that
43:33
information, you don't have a lot to go on.
43:36
You're just kind of moving. And so that's the, those are the
43:39
practical first steps that I would take or to suggest to
43:42
anyone and trying to get out of that space.
43:45
Let's start by processing you are.
43:48
And then once you have processed it, let's sit in it a bit
43:51
without finding it. We're not going to run from it.
43:55
We're just going to breathe into it and allow it to be there with
43:58
us. And God will meet you and take
44:00
over. I love it.
44:01
I love it. I believe that I've seen it in
44:03
my life. I know you have to thank you for
44:06
taking a stand for Christian women.
44:08
Thank you for taking a stand for women.
44:10
And I know you're doing great work in your practice.
44:12
Where can people find you? You can find me at
44:14
intentionalfocusenvy.com, that's a website, or you can find me on
44:18
Instagram, Chris Lowe at LCSW. Thank you friend.
44:21
You, you are amazing. So are you?