Latest / Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne / 971 - Pop and Bravo with Melissa Reich (Your Bish Therapist)

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971 - Pop and Bravo with Melissa Reich (Your Bish Therapist) · Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: It's Thursday, and that means we're going to talk about
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: pop culture and Bravo. And I've got a new guest.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: It is Melissa, who is known as your bish therapist.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And do we say your last name Reich or reich
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Or's wrong?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: That was great. Okay, it's very good to meet you.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: So good to meet you, Mary Payne. I feel like
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: we've traveled in the same circles and I just adore you.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: I love this podcast, so grateful to be here.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a mutual friend, Amy Phillips, yes,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: who gave me info so I could reach out and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I was like, I got somebody,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I got. I gotta break down. I'm following all the trials,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I'm solving all the murders, and I am so interested
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: to hear your take as a therepist on Love Hotel
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and the Valley and what's going on with Real Housewives
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of Atlanta I'm watching. I'm not a below deck person
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: and I have nothing against it. It's just there's so
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: many that somewhere along the way they lost me, you know,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: by the way.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, So Summerhouse I'm in on, but Below Deck
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I feel the same way. I've not watched one episode.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: There's too many iterations. And also I'm one of those
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: weird people that I get so seasick even sometimes watching
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: the movement it actually makes me. Yeah. So I also
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: never gravitated towards it. And so you're not.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Alone, Okay, I mean I've watched like I've watched it,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: but the last few seasons, I haven't watched A couple
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: of seas ago, I watched a whole season and covered
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: it and I really didn't even tell you why. I think, Oh,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: because there was a crossover with a person that was
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: on another show I was covering with Deanna Chang, which
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: was Milf manor Oh Danna and I were covering that,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: and one of the one of the young boys, I
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: mean a thirty something year old, twenty something year old,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: was on Below Deck as a charter guest.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, well, we're gonna have to
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: cover that.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So then I got sucked into the season Summerhouse.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I know that makes me a liability for anybody who
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: wants to talk Bravo with me, But I've never watched
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a whole episode really, and it's just too late.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I can't catch up.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: See, can I be honest? I disagree with that. Now
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: here's people ask me to cover sister Wives all the time.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: That's too late to catch up on like that boat
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: has there's like forty seven seasons. Yes, I'm they sit.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Around and do nothing.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, right, But I really do think Summerhouse you can
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: pick up. I mean, listen, no pressure, because I think
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: that we all as content creators, we have the bandwidth
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: for what we have the bandwidth for, and if you don't,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: that is totally fine. But it is really good. And
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: I haven't watched since the beginning. I picked up in
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: the middle because I kind of felt the same way
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: in terms of like, I don't know how relevant it
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: is to watch from the beginning, but I started picking
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: up somewhere in the middle and now I'm totally in
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: so it listen. It's never too late.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I know, And it maybe if I ever have like
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: an extended vacation or I have some sort of surgery
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: where I have to like sit in the bed.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: That did happen to me? Yeah, that's that's what I'm
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: hoping for.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: A few years ago, I had a surgery, and I
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: watched all of Doubton Abbey because I'd never watched one episode. Well,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I really felt like i'd accomplished something. I mean, I
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: went all the way through the movies like I did
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: it all I felt and that got me through. So
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: if ever I have to have another major surgery summerhouse,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: it is okay.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Well, let's also not hope that you have to have
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: a surgery so you can watch. I hope you stay healthy.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, only if it's like something fun,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: like a facelift or like a tummy tucker or something.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely sure, I'm with you. Yep.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well let's talk about these shows.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: So well, first I want to talk about pop culture,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: because I like to start with pop culture. Are you
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: in on the Karen Reid trial? I mean literally that
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: is on my phone right this minute. I just paused
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: it because I'm not caught up.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am dialed in to the Karen Trial. I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: have watched every single solitary episode of anything that has
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: to do with her. I am fascinated.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I've been watching the trial every single day.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I was very happy when I drove here to the beach.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I had six hours in the car by myself. I
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: could just listen to trial coverage, like literally listened to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Emily b Baker, Emily de Baker tell me about the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: trial while the trial was trialing. So today when I
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: was flying, I did miss a little bit of the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: testimony because I was flying. I got up, got right
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: back in rewound, found where I was. Now they just
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: this today. We're recording this Wednesday. It comes out Thursday.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: But they just announced no court Thursday, Friday, Monday, see
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: you back on Tuesday, because they already were going to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: take the weekend, but then something happened where they're ahead
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: on their witnesses.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: To testify.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So I think that whoever was like the next one
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: probably like couldn't be in town because they were scheduled
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to go on Tuesday. So they're like, no court Thursday, Friday, Monday.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So that's gonna be upsetting for me. It's going to
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: be a long break for me.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: That's so fascinating because I don't know how they're ahead
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: because she was sick and then court had to be
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: canceled only one day, you know, but you would think
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: that would be behind, not ahead. That is that's interesting.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: MM hmm. So what am I going to do?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So between now and then, what I'm going to do
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: is I'm ketch up on the Diddy trial. Now I
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: watch I'm up to date and Brian Coberger. I'm ready
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: for that, Yes, But the Diddy trial, I've I've been
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: listening to Kate Casey because she's covering it. I've been
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: listening to her coverage. She's got a lawyer on there
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: that's talking to her. I think I'll be interested to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: hear your point of view, from a therapist point of view,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: from the Cassie Ventura what I've seen, Like I said,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I haven't been following it as closely, but what I
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: saw was she explained everything. But of course, what they're
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: always going to bring up in things like this is
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: her willing to dissipation in quite a bit of it,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: you know, And this is it hasn't quite got to
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: where I feel like it's blamed the victim, but it's
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: skating the edge of blaming the victim. And you have
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: to remember he met her when she was very young,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: and you know, groomed her and kept her around, and
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: so yeah, if she's sending him these suggestive texts, like
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: she's ready for the freak golf, or she can't wait,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: or yes, she'll contact the prostitute.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Whatever. I see it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: As grooming, and she's doing what she's told because now
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: she's got this life that she's living.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I think they skated a very fine line on
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: blaming the victim there. What are your thoughts.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think they skated the line. I think they
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: crossed it. But if I'm being honest, I think whenever
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: women historically are put in this position, it is always
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a group of male lawyers trying to victim blame, victim shame,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: slut shame, right, because having kinks isn't anything to go
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: on trial for. But what you said a word, which
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: is grooming, I fully agree, and so I actually went
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: on Rachel Levis. I went on her podcast, I think
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: it was last year, you know, after the scandal happened,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: and I talked about grooming because in the core of law,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: there is a lot that people and abusers can get
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: away with because psychological abuse there's not a lot of
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: great definitions and there's certainly not a lot of great
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: accountability holding in terms of our justice system that.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: We have to prove it right. How do you prove it.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: How do you prove that that person was groomed to,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: not just doing it of their own free will?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, right, right.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: But anyone with any sort of common sense or observational
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: skills whatsoever can see that as he was very young,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: she was absolutely groomed by him. And it sounds like,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: you know, some of those texts and things, what happens
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: is when you're in abusive relationships, which is wholeheartedly what
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: this was. Did you see the video of him attacking
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: her in the hallway and throwing her around road?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So it's so nobody's going to look at that and
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, she's terrified of him, and here's why.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: And if that's what he's willing to do in a
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: public corridor where there's a hallway, can you imagine what
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: he was willing to do behind closed doors. It's absolutely
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: frightening and it's astounding to me but not surprising, how
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: the lengths that this misogynistic culture will go to to
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: try to tear women down. And this is why women
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: don't come forward, because there's the abuse, there's the assaults,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: and then it happens all over again in a court
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: of law, and it's just it's it's a very broken system. Cassie,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: in my opinion, is an absolute angel who is meaning
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: angel on earth in terms of her strength, her perseverance,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: and her willingness to say, you know what, I know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be torn down here, but I'm going
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: to hold him accountable so that he can't hurt more people.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: And I just think her bravery is really something that
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: should be celebrated and she shouldn't be torn down in anything.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people that are maybe going
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: to be coming forward to testifying are feeling safer to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: speak their mind because he's behind bars, you know, because
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: if he wasn't behind bars, and we haven't heard of
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: yet a sort of a number two person that's running
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: his enterprise, and maybe there is someone, but if you
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: were afraid of him, and then you're also afraid of
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: whoever's number two is, it doesn't seem like a number
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: two has been revealed that people would be afraid of
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: that person. It seems like more people are coming forward
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: with stories because he's behind bars and they feel safer.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Right, And I think to your point, that is a
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: huge factor in terms of why women don't come forward
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: or why they acquiesce essentially to the abuse. So her
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: text to me is not evidence of her participating, it's
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: her evidence of her acquiescing because she doesn't want to
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: get injured or killed or you know, I mean, I
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: think for all intents and purposes. You know, I don't
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: know Diddy. I haven't assessed him. You know, I can't
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: speak on that, but his behaviors, I can say are
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: indicative of a very dangerous person, likely with some very
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: severe psychopathology. And what psychopathology is is just kind of
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: you know, you hear people use the term sociopath's psychopath
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: and essentially it's all you know, the psychological correct term
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: is sociopathy. And that happens when people you know, lack
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: empathy consistently over time. And so not only does he
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: like empathy, I just feel this visceral reaction every time
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I see you know, that video or something he says
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: or does you know, I'm kind of like I joke
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: a little bit, I'm like a bomb sniffing dog when
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: it comes to sociopathy. Okay, in my history, I've worked
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: with a lot of different populations. I'm trying to figure
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: out how to say this diplomatically, and so I just
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: am really able to with certain men with those characteristics.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: It's like a visceral feeling that I get in my
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: body and I just feel that whenever I watch any
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: sort of coverage with him.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we talk a lot on our shows about
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: sociopath and psychopath and explain to me the difference, because
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I know one is sort of like you're born with
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: it and the other one is sort of like you
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: become Is that right?
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Well, and so there essentially euphemisms for the same term,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: which is psychopathology. So a sociopath and a psychopath, people
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: will say. People online, if you look at TikTok, they'll say, well,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: this means this, and this means this. It's hard.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I'm getting my information, let's be real.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and listen fair enough. I get I'm on TikTok too,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: and I have to check myself too. I'm like is
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: that right? And I'm like, well, I don't believe that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: So they can be very convincing, but it's essentially just
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: one broad umbrella term, which is psychopathology. And what those
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: terms mean is that brain studies and imaging have shown
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: that people who have psychopathology, they you know, their frontal
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: lobes and certain areas of the brain do not light
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: up the way that other folks who have healthy functioning
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: brains do, and so there is some biological you know,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: really the answer to why things happen the way they
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: are is it's called epigenetics, and epigenetics is when environment
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: meets genetics, and so it really, you know, the old
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: in psychology was nature or nurture, and we now know
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: the answer is always both, I mean usually both. And
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: so psycho pathology means that in terms of how they behave,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: they don't have pro social behaviors, meaning they don't have empathy.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: They're very self serving. They use other people to serve
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: their needs and desires. But lack of empathy is really
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: the only huge defining characteristic for those specific diagnoses. I
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: would say, if that makes sense.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So when you see somebody, we'll say Jacks. So
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Jack's a long time ago on Stacy's podcast, and that
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: was one of the first podcasts to ever listen to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: because I love Stacy and come at me, I don't care.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And she had a podcast that was really good, and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: she still does have a podcast, she has kind of
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: a different one now, but she sat down with Jack
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I think it was. Even on vander Pump Rules, she
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: sat down with Jack's for her podcast and gave him
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it was was it a sociopath test or a narcissist test?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: He passed with the line colors.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Oh well, okay, so I can speak to that too.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Is that I think it was a narcissist test. But
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Tom Sandival went on Doctor Drew's. He went on a
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: podcast and doctor Drew has this test to look at narcissism.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: And I went and I looked at it because part
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: of my training is in psychological assessment as well. Now
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: I don't provide that, but I you know, I took
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: courses on it, and I understand that in these assessments
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: there need to be some measures to prevent fakery essentially,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And so I took that narcissis test that doctor Drew
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: gave to Tom Sandival, and you can answer it the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: way that you want to get the answer that you want.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: So unless it's an actual psychological assessment tool, I don't
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: always put a lot of stock in it for that reason,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: because Jackson is smart enough to know how to answer
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: those questions to get the desire result that he wants.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: But the result that the got was he is a narcissist,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: he is a sociopath.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: That was the result. Okay, well then it was I
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was saying.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: As he passed, She's like, you have to answer everything.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: She's like, and you understand, like we were together for years,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: like you can't lie. He's like, okay, you know. One
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: of the questions was if this then that, would you
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: choose yourself or would you choose to help your an
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: old lady about to get hit by a bus. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: he'd be like, well, I mean she's already runt of
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the bus, so what am I going to do. It
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: was just all of his answers were the wrong thing
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: to say, and she was like, oh my god.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And at the end she was like, well, okay, you.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Scored, you know, nineteen out of twenty. You know, yes,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: you're a social path.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He's like, okay, okay, so I'm cute. Who cares?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But with Jack's with his behavior, a lot of his
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: behavior I can relate to with my past with my husband.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of his behaviors are just attic behavior in
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: that he says, yeah, I shouldn't have done it, but
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: everybody else would well, everybody else would have done the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: same thing.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: It's very much of.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, it was wrong, but what would you do if
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: that happened, or every everybody would do the same And
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: you're like, no, they wouldn't. And he can't ever just
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: say yes, that was wrong, yes that was wrong, but
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: you would do the same thing. He always is trying
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to caveat you would do the same thing. Any guy
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: would do the same thing. And then I noticed this week,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I guess it was on the Valley that Danny was
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: doing the same thing about his drinking that my husband
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: used to do a lot of, like, well, everybody was drinking,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Why were you? Why are you saying I was drunk?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Everybody was drinking. So it's like if everybody's doing it,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: then I'm not the problem. So with Danny, his behavior
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: presents to me as addict behavior, and the way he
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: speaks about it the same as Jack's the way Jack
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: speaks about like two, Okay, I had a cocaine problem,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: but you did cocaine too. It's like, that's not the point.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: That was So when I watched that scene, it was
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: so textbook addictive behavior, where it's like the addict. It's like,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: if they're going to go down they're going to take
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: everyone around them with them, because I and I think truly,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: you know, it's funny that you mentioned that Jack's failed
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: the test, and so it sounds like he was truthful,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: because I do believe at the core that Jack's his
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: narcissistic traits and tendencies, you know, because I can't diagnose
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: it's not appropriate and it's also not ethical. I don't
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: know Jacks. I'm not a therapist, but I can look
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: at the behaviors and I can tell you that on
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: you know, clinically, I look at things on a continuum,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: and so he is for sure on the higher end
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of this continuum of these narcissistic traits and tendencies, you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: bordering on I would say anti social, anti social traits
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: and tendencies, meaning you know, like when he stole the
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: sunglasses just for just for kicks, you know, he yeah,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: his brain really, he does, really see to have the
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: one thing that all people in addiction have in common,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: which is just like a thirst for chaos. It's you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: it's not always even about the substance. It's about the
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: thirst for absolute chaos in relationships with your friend groups,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: just creating you know, the ripple effect of his behaviors
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: on other people. I think he sort of gets a
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: kick out of that. And so for me, I'll tell
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: you something funny. I actually didn't watch VPR in the
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: beginning because I felt allergic to Jack's I was so like,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: I felt I was so hot.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I was so hot for him, you know, because that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: just shows you the kind of men I've chosen in
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: my life.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was like, he.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Is so hot, he is so mean, he would be
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: so mean to me, and I would be the one
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: to change him.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Oh and listen, that's why Brittany stuck around and was right.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: And that's that's the way people like this have significant
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: other women especially think I can change him. I'll make
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: him want to change and.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Then it would be one he picked up all the women.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I'm one he picked because I'm I was able to
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: change him. So I'm special, you know. And You're like,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: he's been with hundreds and hundreds of women, but I'm
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the one, you.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Know, right, right, And so I think, you know, at
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: a point, that's maybe how Brittany felt. But I just
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: think that Jack's particularly there's something a little bit sadistic
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: about him where it's like you know that saying misery
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: loves company, like he's not happy unless people around him
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: are miserable and in chaos as well. And so that's
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: something extra special about Jackson's personality that I don't necessarily
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: see in someone like Jesse. For example, Jesse and Jack's
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: are very similar, right, I very similar.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Jesse's just a little bit smarter.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: And more charismatic.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I would I argue, I've been around Jack's twice, not
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: you know, just seeing him and had had work spoken twice,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: and I would argue that he is very charismaic, but
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's simmering underneath, and you know him enough
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: to know that, you know, whereas Jesse is so cutting
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: with his words, and like when he said to Janet
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: on the valley, when he said this is not a
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: game you want to play, like that scared me a
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: little bit. I was like, oh, I'm a little scared him.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I could probably take him because they're probably bigger than him,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: but I'm.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Like, that scared me a little bit to say that
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: what she yeah say bloomers, you know.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: To say that to somebody, a girl in front of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: their husband, like he doesn't care. You know, he said it, right,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to her in front of her husband. He didn't care
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: if he offended her her husband. Who's this friend? He said,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna this is not a game you're gonna
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: be good at. You don't need to try to play
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: with me.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I think that Jack's cares less about people seeing behind
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: the mask, and Jesse's max mask is a little bit
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: more affixed, and he only lets it down in those
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: little moments and you have to be watching carefully. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I agree with your assessment on that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very interesting. I think that's right. I think
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Jax is just so like this has gotten me on
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: TV for fifteen years.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Yes is the why not? This made me fairs, so
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: people must like it.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Do you have what else are you discussing like on
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: your show and in general?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: What are you talking?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Because we did, Karen, Ree're talkbout cover Diddy? So when
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you're talking about things, are you do you pick like
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: one specific subject or like, this is what's happening this
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: week on the Love Hotel, let's talk about Shannon?
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, great question. So honestly, I have this
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: thing where I will only cover what I am authentically
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: drawn to as a human being. And I have the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: privilege of doing that because you know this, I get
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: to do this for fun. This is you know, I'm
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: trying to make it a career, trying to you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: do my best at this. But you know, I have
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: an amazing, wonderful, supportive husband, and so I can really
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: just kind of cherry pick and so I look at
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: what does my brain feel authentically drawn to. So what
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: it's been drawn to is Shannon on Love Hotel. I
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: swear to you I could write a dissertation on her
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: relational issues. I have so much to say about that.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: So I've covered that. Of course, the valley is so
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: rich in terms of because I have a huge people
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: that follow me their you know, Thriver, survivors of domestic abuse,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: sober community, because I talk a lot about you know, addiction,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: you know, as a former drug and alcohol counselor, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: so I you know, the valley. I try. I'm trying
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: to make something good out of something really toxic by
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: you know, making it educational at least a little bit.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: And then I was covering Atlanta, but you know what,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: no one seems to care about it, and it really
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: you know, because it's so good.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I will say, let's talk about Atlanta really quick.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: So this last week we had Shemia and Porscha sit
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: down as they've been friends for a very long time,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and it was very weird what was happening at that
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: table because so Shemia was trying to tell her as
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a good friend of me, I'm trying to tell you,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: and she got going, stop, why are you doing this?
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you're doing this for the show.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: She was trying to call Shemiah out and say you
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: are overreacting or creating drama for the show, where Shemia
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: is like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm literally
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: trying to talk to you about something. Something happened when
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Portia went to the bathroom and came back and she
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: sort of had reset and was like, we do need
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: to work this out. I found that whole thing so
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: interesting because it was like Portia wouldn't really let Shemia talk,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and then she got mad at her and started saying, you're.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Doing this for the show. I was like, where's the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: evidence of that? Why are you saying that? I thought,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: what did you think? I thought it was interesting.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I also was fascinated by the scene because so much
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: of communication is actually nonverbal, Like the stuff that can
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: really matter, a lot of it is nonverbal. And it
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: was like I felt like I was watching the US
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Open like a tennis match, like boom boom boom. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: it was so fascinating as a therapist to watch, you know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: because what I have a history of, you know, when
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: you're in a situation and you're watching it escalate. I
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: saw each and every bit of how they both contributed
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to that excalation. And so I think that, my honest,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: if I have never loved a new housewife like I
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: love Shamiyah, I feel, where has this peach been all
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: of our real housewives of a Landa lives? She should
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: have been on a million years ago? Who dropped the
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: ball on that? And Porscha just has this history of,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: let's face it, relational issues in her romantic and her
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: friendship relationships. And I believe Porscha is kind of a
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: perpetual victim in that she feels. I don't think at
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: that dinner she felt she had the bandwidth for Shamiah,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: but sometimes life is hard and we may not have
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: the bandwidth. But if this is your sister that you've
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: been friends for decades, right, this is not some random
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: new housewife, like he gives a who this is your girl,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: this is your sister. And so it was not surprising
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: to see how Porsha behaved, but it was understandable why
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: that made Shamia angry because Shemiah was on the right
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: side of history here, I believe, and I think Porsha
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: was just like, listen, I'm going through a real divorce.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: I can't go through a friend divorce. But the problem
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: is she doesn't want to address any of the problems
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: that are creating these what I would call relationship ruptures.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: So if you have a rupture and you don't deal
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: with it and then you move on, and then there's
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: another rupture, well soon the relationship becomes you know, you
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: can't fix it. It's inflexible. Yeah, and I think unfortunately
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Portia has a history of doing that in relationships, hoping
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: issues will just fly away and miraculously resolve, and that's
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: just not how life goes.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really I've been watching Atlanta and maybe it's
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: because it's the only housewives on right now, like we're
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: getting Miami soon, but I've been really enjoying it. I've
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: loved the whole new stylized version of it. I'm generally
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: liking that. I'm really liking Angela Oakley because I felt
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: like she was being super honest about her relationship with
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: her husband.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh, yeah, like we have separated because of
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, so I like that when they don't try
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: to say oh, people just try to spread rumors, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: she's like, no, we went through some shit.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And I like that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I feel like she's a grown up woman who has
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: been through things in her life and she can you know.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: She's like, and then my daughter got married and didn't
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: tell me, and then my mom doesn't like my husband.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so I think it's like real life,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: and I really like her. Kelly I'm getting into because
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: she's just She's just she literally is like a like
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: a Betty Boot character, you know what I mean.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: A literal ray of sunshine.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: But I'm not interesting about her daughters that she has.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: The she has the three or the four daughters, and
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: three of them have that riddle bone disease and they
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: be a CPS was time to take them away because
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: they thought she was beating her children.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: You're like, whoa, we skated past that.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: That's a huge story, right, and not her a lot,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: but she has an ex husband who, by for all
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: intents and purposes, has been allegedly very abusive and talking
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: about scary right like threats. Yeah, and I kind of
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: believe that Kelly. I think she's a beautiful soul, but
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: I think her bubbly personality is built off of trying
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: to keep herself safe, to keep people around her so
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: that she's not alone. So that and I also think
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: some of it, like trauma survivors, a lot of times
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: we do this thing where will just not want to
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: deal with the emotions, so we'll kind of like have
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: a little bit of toxic positivity accidentally, right unintentionally, And
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: sometimes I get that a little bit with Kelly, Like
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I want to see your sadness, like you're not a
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: way of sunshine every day and if you are, well,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: that's you're not feeling something. So you know, I want
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: to I feel like I want to peel back the
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: layers of Kelly and get to her, but you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: I think she needs to feel safe enough to do that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So you just said toxic positivity, which reminded me of
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: the recap I just did with Kimberly that came out
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: on Wednesday about The Valley. She used the phrase toxic
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: positivity to describe NIA.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: And what you're saying is to covering up trauma.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Obviously we didn't know this about Nia, but she said
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: it on this latest episode of The Valley of all
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: that she went through and she's she said, I'm intentional
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: in my positivity because of what I went through today.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful that I have a home, but then I
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: was grateful that I had a car to live in.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: So she's been through so much that she she says,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I'm intentional with my positivity and maybe I could be
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: a light and help other people. But like you're saying,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: sometimes when you're like that, all your friends around you
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: will get mad and be like, but you're not being real.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: You're not being real, and we don't like it. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: especially for on a show where we're all getting paid
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: the same amount to show our lives and you're not.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And you find that you see that a lot and
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: housewives of some of these shows, or what really they're
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: mad at the person about is mad about is because
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: they came late to a party.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: When it's like, this is a cast call. We have
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: to be there.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: You didn't have to come because you did something else
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and we all had to go. So sometimes they're mad
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff, or like, you got invited
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to be a speaker as something and you didn't add me,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: so I didn't get that money to be a speaker
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: at something. So there's all these little things. So I
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: think it's very interesting what you said Nia and her
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: toxic positivity. That's a little bit of what they're mad about.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: They're like, well, that's great that you're so happy and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you and your husband are true partners and handle everything
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: together with therapy and all that, but we are shooting
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a reality show where we have to show all our shit,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: And it's so funny because where I talked about toxic positivity,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: that initially came from that scene with Nia, and as
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: a therapist, I swear to you it was like a
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: light bulb went off in my head. And so I
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: just want to explain quickly. My assessment was like, so
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: she growing up, had her and her mom were chronically
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: unhoused for people listening that maybe don't know, and when
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: you're growing up as a child and you have what's
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: called scarcity trauma, so as humans, the only thing we
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: really absolutely have to have her needs met is like shelter, food,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: and safety. And when those needs aren't met as children,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: there's a scarcity trauma that happens and really can rewire
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: children's brains. And you know, the thing that became apparent
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: to me is that I think Nia in this scenario,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: it's it's they're arguing about semantics. She's being as open
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: as she knows how to because I believe when she
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: was a child, you have to develop this sense of
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: secrecy when you know if someone at school finds out,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: you're going to get separated from your mind, and children
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: and youth are going to get involved. So I believe
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: that Nia has the suit of armor to self protect
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: and I believe that she's doing the same thing because
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: the only thing that matters to her is Danny and
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: those children. And so I believe I'm viewing it more
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: as much more self protective due to that child scarcity trauma.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And this is as open as she knows how to be,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: because I think she worries in real time if people
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: think that Danny has an addiction and what is going
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: to happen to her current family unit are children and
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: youth going to get involved there is she at risk
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: of losing her home, her car, her job, and for
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: someone in that position, that fear would override any requirements
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: of being on a reality TV show. She's doing the
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: best she can, I believe.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting when she was arguing with
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you know, Britney Jazzin and Britney's room and Danny King
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: kind of stucker mad at me, like what's going on?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And then they went back in the bedroom and she
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: was saying, just like so many things I've heard myself say,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: is like, yeah, everybody was drinking, and she was sort
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: of saying the words that he was saying too. And
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: then like when she came home from the dinner and
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: she sat down and she goes, well, you know, you
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: told me you drank tequila, but I didn't know it
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: was in the closet, and he said that's where the
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: bottles were. She goes, Okay, that makes sense. It seems
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: like that is a show for people to see that
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: she knows and she understands. But in my mind, I'm
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: like they're trying to protect this image because they're very
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: involved with their church number one, and she absolutely doesn't
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: want the word to get out that he has some
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: sort of substance issue that'll affect his career as a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: voiceover artist, which then affects her and the kids.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: That's right, and creates that again, that trigger for scarcity trauma,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: where if he loses his job, what happens to this house,
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: what happens to our kids? I've lived in my car.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I can't do that, you know. She She's just trying
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: to do the best she can for her children. But
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: it's so interesting you bring up that scene because what
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: I wrote down is I can tell that she's making
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: excuses to playcate Danny's anger in the moment, it was
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: super obvious to me, and she's done this millions of
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: times before. She you know, cameras were on and so
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: she felt safe enough to say something. But Danny has
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: this real I call it a simmering rage which she
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: can see. Like there was one scene where Danny smirked
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: and she got so triggered and defensive and she said,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: don't do that smirk. I know what that's about. And
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: I forget what point it was and.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Should she said don't do that nervous laughter? Yes, what?
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: And she goes quit doing the nervous.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I think she's trying to say, quit nervous, laughing about
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: me talking about you chunking tequila in a closet. She goes,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: it does look bad. It does, and he's like, right, okay,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: all right, you know, yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: But I'm saying that I can see that that's the
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: mark of a woman who's had those conversations so many
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: times that knows the slight change in his smile and
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: tone of voice. And so when you're dealing with a
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: partner who may be overutilizing substances. Because I can't judge
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: what's going on with Danny, I can only look at
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: what I see. It's what happens when they're confronted about
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: the ripple effects of their behavior. And I think that
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: you know, Danny's saying, well, he's had to go to
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: therapy before because of his behaviors when he's blacked out
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: on alcohol, but he's shocked and surprised that it's still
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: causing an issue, and you know, so it's a lot
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: of rich information, and it just tells me that there's
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: so much more under the surface that they're just desperately
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: trying to hide. And it's not disingenuous I think it's
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: just I think Nia's trying to preserve her safety in
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: her family unit.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Real really interesting.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting to think of it that way, because
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I see it as her trying to say face because
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: we don't want him to lose his job because he's
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the main breadwinner. I find it fascinating, all right. So
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: we also touched on Shannon on Love Hotel Now. When
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Shannon did sort of explain that she was coming up
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: on the one year of her duy, Well, anybody that's
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: been in any kind of traumatic situation knows that somehow biologically,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: your brain or your body or something knows it's an anniversary.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: My husband had a sister that passed away as a child,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: and when they were children, and in December he would
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: always get he said, he goes. I can't explain it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I could feel it because when it happened, it was
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: in December, right, even though it's fifty years ago at
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: this point. But it's interesting that watching that, I was like, Okay,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: this might be because she says, you know, tomorrow is
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: the when you're anniversary, and then she shows all these
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: men who she's technically supposed to be wanting to be
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: attractive to let me show you what what a hot
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: fucking mess I am.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: Let me show always throw my bloody face. So I
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: was like, girls like no, no. But it's interesting because
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: people are like, what is up with her?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I go, I just see her life literally did not
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: turn out like she planned it. And she planned to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: be married to David Bbora and David Badoor and live
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: in the twenty million dollar mansion with the crystals embedded
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: in the wall and the indoor basketball court.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: That's what she planned. So that didn't happen.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: And then she planned John Danson, you know, this amazing
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: boyfriend whatever, and that didn't happen. So you know what
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think she's just struggling to.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Get above water.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: You know, I absolutely agree, And I said on my
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: podcast pretty much the one a similar piece to that,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: which is that I think that Shannon is grief stricken
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: because she is at a she is at an age
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: in her life where, like you said, the picture of
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: what she had for herself in her mind, it is
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: totally different. She is, you know, recovering from a duy
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: because you know, I mean in the sober community, you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: post acute withdrawals, you know, and I don't know if
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: she stopped drinking, but post acute withdrawal syndrome last for
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: over a year.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: After people at please she's drinking on this show, she
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: did not stop drinking, you know.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Right, So, but my point is is that when you
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: know she's not Shannon does not love to feel a feeling.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: She does not love to allow herself to feel an emotion,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: and so I think she's profoundly unhappy. And what she
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: does is she projects that onto all the males who
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: she dates. Because the one thing that became super clear
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: to me with this whole Shannon stuff, I've talked about
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: it every week is that she is recreating all of
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: her relation relational issues with men that she doesn't know.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: So what does that tell me? That tells me that
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Shannon is is a huge part of the issue, and
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: that she's recreating this chaos here we see again chaos
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: right with people overutilizing alcohol. She uses this chaos I
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: feel to be able to express these painful emotions, like
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: when she and Earle fought, I don't know how much
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: it was about Earl and how much of it was
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: about I'm on the show. I feel like a fish
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: out of water. Nobody but Earle likes me. These three
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: women are swimming in d and I'm just like, no
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: one likes me. And I think also that's why she
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: was with David and with John Jansen, because it's like
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: if anyone likes her, even if she's not happy or
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: doesn't like them, she settles. And we've seen her do
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: it time and time and time again on Love Hotel,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and so you know, it just really did give me
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of insight into I just think she has
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of big emotions, does not know how to
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: process those, uses these conflicts to express them. But when
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: you're not being like when you have a feeling about
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: situation A and you're making it about situation B, all
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: those feelings about situation A really gets stuck and then
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: you stuff them and then it gets all muddy because
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: feelings are on top of feelings, if that makes sense.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the thing with Earl was so interesting because she
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: she did what she thinks is cute or guys like
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: or she's like, what.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Huh is she? That's always kind of been a cutesy
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: thing that she does.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: And then he was like, he doesn't know her from TV,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: so he didn't think he doesn't know that sort of
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: her stick. So he goes, why do you always look
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: at me like you want to slap me? Because when
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: she's doing that, he feels judged by her right, And
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: it's interesting, I haven't even thought about it that way
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: of her feeling like, oh, all these like sexy ladies
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: here and people want them, but they don't want me.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I would feel that way if I was in a
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: show with those women, I would be like, Okay, these
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: are all like beautiful, sexy women. And Shannon is a
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: beautiful woman in her own way, but she's very sort
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: of a little more conservative. And by the way, there's
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: plenty of guys out there that like that too, the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: same amount of guys that like like Lui Ane being
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: the opposite, you know, but she just doesn't see it.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: She doesn't see that she's got this to offer, you know, right,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I like, why, you know, why don't you see?
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sad, and I agree Shannon. I don't believe
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: she has any self worth. I don't believe she has
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: any self esteem. I actually believe that Shannon is one
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: of those women who will, you know, she'll be sad
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: about feeling bad and then you know, she Giselle was like, listen,
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: you're too fabulous for this, and then she'll almost parrot it,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: you know, like oh, yeah, I'm too fabulous, but she
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: doesn't really believe that yeah, And so it's like, well,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: you can't talk yourself into feeling fabulous. If that worked,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: i'd be out of a job. So I think that Shannon, really,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: if I'm being honest, people who overutilize alcohol to the
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: point where it's created some consequences, right like if UI
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: or something like that. Alcohol is a depressant, and it
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: literally makes people feel depressed, It makes them emotionally volatile,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: it can make them you know it what you experienced
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: with your husband. I'm sure that you kind of know
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: what I mean here. But there's just like a thunk.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: People who use a lot of alcohol are in a
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: lot because it's just so toxic and unhealthy for us.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: And so I think that she doesn't give herself the
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: chance to have clarity, Like if she had the DUI
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: and then use the opportunity to really put the alcohol
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: down and just assess temporarily, I think that she would
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: be in a much better position. Number one and number two,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go out on the limb and say,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: I actually think Love Hotel was a bad idea for
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Shannon personally. Maybe professionally was a great idea, but I
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: think after John Jansen, she's just too triggered. She's triggered
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: by all of it, by you know, not feeling wanted,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: not feeling like she can catch up with I mean,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: but like you said, I would feel the same way.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: I'm like a grandma compared to lou Ayne, and she's
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: so much older than me. I'm like, that is so rude,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: So I can understand how it feels.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think you're right.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I think it was a bad choice for her, especially
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: if they're filming right at a pivotal time where it's
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: one year since her DUI, which is going to bring
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: up all this shit for her.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: And I did hear Ashley.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: On Watch What Happens Live the other night made a
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: really good analogy about the four of them being the
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: sex in the city, and lou Ayne is obviously Samantha, right,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: and Shannon is obviously Charlotte right, and Gizelle is obviously Miranda,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and then Ashley is like, and I'm Carrie, you know
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: she But I was like, that is so good that
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: is so good. But I think that Shannon probably is
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: like they're like they're gonna throw her a bone and
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: film something with her and all that it.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it wasn't the right time for her. Now,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't you know, watched Ahead.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't get screeners, so I just like
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: watch it when it comes on Monday like everybody else.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Or baby, I'm not that important. No one sends me
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: a screener, no one.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: No, no, I asked, and I get told no, I
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: always ask. They did send me Salt Lake City screeners.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm hoping though, So I don't know how I
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: got in with the Salt Lake City person that likes me.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: But each show is different and you have to ask
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: for each show, and each person can tell, you know,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: like John Hill told me, and John Hill works on
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Radio Andy, that for every show that comes out, he
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: has to ask every single time, every single season, for
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: every single show. John Hill, yeah, he said he has
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: to like call the blow Deck person and say, I
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: need to get Blowdeck screeners, and I.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Need to get Below Deck Australia screeners.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I need to get Oh, Miami's coming out, don't forget
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: to send me screeners is every time every season he
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: asks us every time.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Well that feels less bad because chut to me, you
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and John Hill are legends. So I'm like, well, if
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: y'all can't get.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Screeners, no, no, no, no. He gets all the screeners,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: but I don't. But they did give them to me
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: for Salt Lake now probably, But I wrote to ask
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: if I could get screeners for The Valley so that
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I have my episodes out super early, and they just
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: went back and said no, We're just keeping a tight
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: list on who can get screeners.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: For the Valley.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: He's like, okay, great, they say no, and you just
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: the next show comes out and you try for that one.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, okay, that's right, doing your bust. Aren't
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: we all doing my best? All right?
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Let me see what I want to ask you else
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: about Love Hotel? What about Okay? What do you think
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: about Earl? Do you think girl's going to get voted off?
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: What do you think is in that letter that she
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: gave him this week? Because she looked very proud of
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: herself or handing him this letter, and he looked like
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: he like broke into tears. So what do we think
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: is in that letter.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is my theory. And again, since we don't
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: get screeners, we have no idea if I'm correct, But
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: I believe that Shannon the other guy. So remember how
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Shannon picked And I'm not remembering any of these men's names.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I've got I've got a list.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: So okay, So the one that Shannon initially gave her
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: key to, but then now he's with Countess Luann. He
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: always says I love my life. Who's that guy?
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: That guy is James and Kate Casey has inside scoop
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: that he is a total loser with no job.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, doesn't he give those vibes like he gives
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: it was like a guy who loves Margaritaville and loves
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: just like being on the beach drinking and being like,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: I love my life. You know what I mean. Yes,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: that's the vibes.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: He's from Santa Monica.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: He's an entrepreneur, and he he's the I love my life.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: But he went to USC so that's what he bonded
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: with Shannon.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Over right, But now Shannon is gravitating towards the.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Adam Adam and he's the worldly guy that like went
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: to Oxford and went to Yale and lived in Italy,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and he's like over.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Educated that guy.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, So Adam, Countess Lwanne, and Shannon were walking
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: and so Shannon was so she literally was like, I'm
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: done with Earle. Let me move on to Adam. And
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: then Adam said, this was the moment I knew he
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: was done with her. He told Shannon, if you and
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Countess Luanne were one woman, you would be my perfect woman.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: And I was like, bye, Adam, bye, bye, see you later,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: you dumbass, No, what are you even talking about? You do?
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: It was so rude and so but here's the thing.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Shannon is like, she's not like Countess luwan Countess Luan.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: She's like, who cares, I'm just trying to get you know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to get my needs met, which, like
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Kine good for her, But for Shannon, she was like
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: I she thought she was going from Earle to to Adam,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: and now she's done with Adam. And I believe the
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: note says will you be my something or other? Like
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: I think she's choosing him and she's gonna eliminate Adam,
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: That's what I think. And he's so overwhelmed with like
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: shock and gratitude because he thought he was done.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great theory. That's a that's a that's
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: a flipping and reverse it. I didn't think about that,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: but you could be right. The tears could because he's
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: so grateful that he's getting the second chance. And but listen,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: they're never gonna work out. Where does he live? Earl
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: lives in He lives in Atlanta. He like lives on
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: a lake. He's got the stupid, weird shoes, and I
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: think she purposely picks that. In my opinion, everybody's feelings
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: are different. My opinion, the least attractive man. She picked
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: him because she was like, the least attractive guy will
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: light me. That's like me when I was growing up
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: and there there's a boy band or a rock band,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: i would pick what I deemed to be the least
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: attractive member of Guns n' Roses or whatever, and I'd
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: be like, that's my boyfriends, you know what I mean,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, I could never get the lead singer.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: So I think Shannon does that. She's like, Okay, all
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: these guys. Earl he is a legal consultant. He's probably
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: pretty successful, but he's not very cute, So I'm going
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: to go for him because I know I could get him.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: That's that fully a great First of all, Mary Payne,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: you deserve lead singer energy, okay, number one snap.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, no, no, I'm definitely like the bass player or
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: the keyboarder.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, fine, But I'm just saying you deserve no scraps,
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: my dear. But I fully agree because remember Giselle, they
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: were talking about how Earl's her safety net, and so
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I knew as soon as Adam said that thing that
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: was so rude that she was like, all she had
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: was Earle. She has no other connections or roads to
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: any other guy.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: She doesn't even know that the ladies had a meeting
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: and decided to give Adam to her. And I think
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: when she sees that, because I doubt we're going to
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: get a reunion, when she sees that, her feelings is
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: going to be like that would that would hurt my
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: feelings so bad, be like, oh, they think I'm such
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: a loser that they're giving me some guy I can't
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: get him on my own.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: But I think that's how she's already feeling. I think
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: she'll be very upset when she sees it, but it's
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: like a literal representation of how she feels inside. And
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: that's truly what happened. Shannon is just getting seconds of
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: what these other women don't want, and that has got
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: to be a blow to her already, just like really
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: terrible self esteem. And it bums me out because I
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: want fabulous women to believe that they're fabulous, because I
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: think that if she did, she'd probably utilize alcohol less
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: than she does. I think, I mean, people don't drink
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: a lot because they're super happy.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: That's right, Oh, they really don't. They might have a
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: drink when they're super happy, but they don't.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this too.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Louis talked about this she's on a seven year cycle,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: because she was like, you know, I'm on the seven
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: year cycle, and then the birthday in the seven seventeen.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: We've never really seen Luyne ever have an emotion like
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: that where she actually got sort of choked up about
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: like a family situation, like we've never seen it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I've never seen it.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Saying she had to like put herself in the bathroom
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and like pull herself together talking about because they said, oh,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: something that she goes well, I was married for seven
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: years and divorced, and then I was with this guy
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: for seven months and now I'm on the seventh year
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: of that. That whole thing really means I've never heard
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: of such is the seven year cycle something that you've
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: heard of before.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: So I haven't heard of that specific thing, but it
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: does make sense that, you know, and I don't know
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: if this is true or not. Physiologically, our bodies like
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: every like certain amount of years, like cells regenerate and things,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: you know, our bodies change, and so if that stands
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: to be true, why not the same thing for our
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: mental health. So it's not like there's something I've studied
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: about this or like a major theory that I'm aware of.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: But I definitely think that the whole cycle thing speaks
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: to how if we don't, if we don't look at
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: underlying issues that are leading us, Yeah, there's going to
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: be repetitive behaviors that kind of boomerang around back to us.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: I like to say sometimes it's the Universe's way of saying, well,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: you know, you're you don't get away without you know,
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: this hit in your head in the head again for
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: you know, the seventh time, or whatever I want. Because
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Countess Lewann doesn't give me the sense again of someone
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: who's incredibly comfortable with her emotions, and so and again,
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: I think she drank overutilized alcohol because she struggles to
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: feel those big emotions too, as evidence by you know,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: having to go into the bathroom finding out that that
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: guy had the same birthday as her dad. Right, it
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: brought up so much grief. So it just tells me
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: that she does have a lot of feelings there that
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: she's in process of or maybe not, but that are
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: maybe leading her to have some repetitive cycles of some behaviors.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting. All these people are so interesting. I'm
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: so happy I got to talk to you about all
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: of them because I'm always like armchair ex for psychoanalyzing everybody.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And so, okay, I would like to wrap it up
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: with this. Jack said Jesse really are the same, and
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: that's why they're drawn to each other, and that's why
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Jesse's always taking up for Jackson all that stuff. But
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: you know, my theory is Jesse's a little smarter. You said,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: his mask is on just a little tighter. Do you
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: think in the in the terms of sociopaths, psychopath whatever,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I definitely think Jackson is there, Jesse, I feel like
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: has a little more and it could just be what
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: we're seeing on TV, but he seems to have a
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: little more paternal feelings or you know, really being into
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: like his kid and stuff of what we're seeing on TV.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Now Michelle will tell you like, yeah, okay, great, not
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: so much. He does like the kid with the nanny
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: all the time. What are your thoughts on these two
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: particular guys as far as if they were your clients
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: and you could just broadly diagnose them, if they were
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: how to navigate life.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: If they were my client, they would never come back
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: because I've worked with men like this my entire career,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: and I've had death threats as a result. Because so
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: again I you know, it's a long story, but I
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: am unable to be manipulated by men like this. I
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: have their number, I understand what's going on. I'm not
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: able to be fooled. And so with someone like this,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: when you're not able to be fooled, what do they do?
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: They try to like deflect project, well, you used cocaine too,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: or blah blah whatever. So if they were my client,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: which they wouldn't be, because I don't think they really
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: want to change. That's the only like when it comes
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: to human beings and the question of can they change,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: the only real question is like do they want to?
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Anyone can change under any circumstances if they have the motivation.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: And I don't believe that Jackson is motivated to change
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: at all. I think that Jax has been rewarded for
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: his bad behavior by becoming famous because of it. I
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: believe that Jesse. Here's what I'll say about Jesse. I
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: think he feigns more care and kindness and awareness, but
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: I don't believe he actually possesses those things because, for example,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: when he went on Watch What Happens Live, he continued
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: to kind of blame shift about his behaviors to Michelle.
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, well, I think Jacks and Jesse
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: are both two people that present differently but have very
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: similar pathology. I can't necessarily give a diagnosis, because again
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: that wouldn't be ethical, but I can definitely say that
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: there is antisocial behaviors. There is for sure a lot
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: lack of empathy. And especially here's what I would argue
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: with Jesse. Right, Jesse seems like more of a present parent,
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: seems being the key word, because if he, in my opinion,
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: really cared about his daughter, he would probably treat the
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: mother of his daughter right differently, because what happens is
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: kids don't learn how to teach others from what they're told.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: They learn by modeling and watching. And so I think
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: I'm going to stick with my previous assessment, which is
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: I think that Jesse's mac mask is just a fixed
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: tighter and it slides less often. Jack's doesn't care if
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: the mask comes off because Bravo pays him to take
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: it off.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Until it's still Brittany finally told production what was going
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: on and threatened his job, and that's that's what he's
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: mad about. He's not mad that she said he did
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: cocaine and anything. She's mad that his job is threatened.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: So what does that tell you about Jacks? He literally care. Yeah,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: he only cares about himself. And let's not forget. Do
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: you remember one time Jacks was asked the question of like,
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: if you were dying of had like a terminal illness,
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: what would you do? And he said he would off
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: a bunch of people because he wanted to know what
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: it felt like.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: That's, uh, that sounds about right.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: That would be your mean who would have that thought?
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: And that's my point. It's like, and I don't think
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: he says these things for shock value. I think he
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: just is. He doesn't need his mask because people like
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: on Watch What Happens Live, they did a poll about
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: like all the valley men and who would want to
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: date who. There were fourteen percent of people that chose
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Jax and Jesse. And I said, fourteen percent of these
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: people need to get to therapy a Saparina because that
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: is the wildest choice after.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Watching these men.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: But to point, sometimes when we're young, insecure, we think, oh,
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: maybe I could get to Jack's, maybe I could get
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: a Jesse. I'd let him abuse me because you know
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: it would make me feel something.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: And then I'll be famous too.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, well, I think the difference between Jesse
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: and Jackson's You'll see Jesse this past episode said, you know,
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Michelle's got these deep seated hatred towards me.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: And I have no idea why.
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: And you're like, bro, I literally wrote that, Mary Payne,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: I wrote, I wrote it, and then I wrote, bro.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, I didn't know, that's exactly what I wrote.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: I wrote, I wrote, next, but bro, I.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Love, what are you talking about?
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: And then but then on the other hand, Jacks will say,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, Brittany's really mad at me, and of course
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: she has every reason to me I've been a terrible husband.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, at the same time, she's
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: not a great wife. So he'll say the right thing,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: say the right thing, and then he can't just stop.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: He has to then say but that she did it too.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, he can't just say she has every reason
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: to be mad at me, I get it, and then stop.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: He has to go.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, she's been terrible, you know
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: what I mean, where Jesse just seems to be like
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: on a planet clueless. Oh no, no, no, blame on
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: himself for what he's done.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: No, And that's why Jesse, like I said, he feigns
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: accountability like Hill when he woke up after like his
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: drunken like bloomer freak out, like he was like, I
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: understand now that I was wrong, but you know it
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: really was Michelle's fault. And it's like, then you don't
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: understand that you were wrong. So I definitely think that
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: when I'm all for people going into treatment, you know, sobriety, recovery,
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: whatever that looks like for them. But based on behaviors,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: I can tell you that Jax is no different than
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: he was before, right, And.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: She says, that's what Brittany says. She says, I guess
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: he's sober, but he's literally the exact same person. I go, yeah,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: he is.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: And sometimes people get quote unquote they get sober, but
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: really what happens is they're dry. Sobriety is a process
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: of significant self exploration and work on yourself. It's tedious,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: it's hard. It's the hardest work people have ever done.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Your husband could attest to that, and it's not hard
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: to take the substance away and to have all the
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: same behaviors that you had as an addict. That's being dry,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: that's not being sober. And so again, I can't say
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but Jack's behaviors tell me that he's
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: not working a program where he is looking to be
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: accountable for things, because a true accountability lies in I
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: did this, full stop. It doesn't matter what someone else does.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and that is the end
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: of it. It doesn't matter if someone accepts the apology.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what the person did. It's solely on me.
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: And when Jesse and Jacks can take that route, then
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: to me, that will be a sign that something shifted.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Until that point, they are just a revolving door of bullshit. Yep.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Well amen, oh I got that's a good place to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: end it, because wow, yeah, they're revolving doora bullshit.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's just like.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Jesse jack Jesse Jack's Jesse Jackson just going through that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: revolving dura bullshit. Tell everybody where they can find you
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: on social media and where they can find your podcast too.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: Sure, so it is your bish therapist podcast. Bish is
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: spelled bish because I can be bitchy, but you know
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: that's not a great handle, So it's your bish therapist.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: But it does it does come from Joe Gorga saying
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: my bitch wife.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, right, and it was good Amy, So yes,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Amy gave me the moniker. Coming from Joe Gorga saying
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: that about Teresa, that for sure a playoff of that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: So you can find me on Instagram. That's my biggest
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: social media platform, and my podcast is available anywhere you
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: listen to podcasts. I am on YouTube, I am on Patreon,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: your bish therapist on Patreon, I am on Blue Sky, TikTok, Facebook,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: I mean all of the things everywhere. It's always your therapist,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: always your bisch therapist. My Patreon is subscribers and free
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: members as well, but then the podcast is also completely free.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: And what I'm doing is I'm offering on Apple podcast,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: on YouTube and on Patreon. I'm offering subscription services for people,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: you know, because people really hate ads and things like that.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: So if you love my podcast and you hate an ad,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: please sign up. We'd love to have you.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, subscribe if you want to get that ad
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: free stuff. I have that too, on my ten dollars
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: level too. I was like, it's all ad free, it's advere,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you get the medio everything, advery, advere, advery because people
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: really will complain about an AD.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh sure, will Mary Payne.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, and then guess what, there
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: here's an option for you, right.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Exactly, because we still got to make that coin, honey.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Because podcasting at free, agree, and then that's crazy a
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: free and it ain't easy. And everybody, if you're listening
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: here and you don't follow me, please follow me at
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: peink Shade Pod. That's where you can find there'll be
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: a fun real about this. I'll come up with it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I wrote a couple of notes here revolving door bullshit
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: will probably win.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. That's pretty good. All right, Thank you, Melissa,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: don't hang out. Thank you, thank you,