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Katie Mason | The Christian Reeve Podcast #160 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian read
• 0:02
  podcast. Today's guest is a quarter life
• 0:05
  crisis, coach from originally, from London.
• 0:09
  Now residing in Ireland, and name is Katie Mason.
• 0:12
  Welcome to the show Katie. I don't.
• 0:15
  Hi Christian. Yeah, I'm doing well.
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  Glad to hear it, glad to hear. I've got to just jump straight
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  into this. What is a quarterlife crisis?
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  Yeah, so when I first started thinking of becoming a
• 0:33
  quarterlife crisis coach, when I was kind of heading in that
• 0:36
  direction, it was something, I assumed a lot of people and
• 0:40
  they're kind of twenties knew what it was but it turns out as
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  I'm finding out, it's less well known than I thought.
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  So Life crisis. Pretty much comes down into
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  feeling like, you don't know what the purpose of your life
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  is, you don't really know where your life is going.
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  You're worried that, oh, God is this.
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  It like this? Starting out of adult life
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  period, which is often very difficult and confusing.
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  People are worried, or is this? What?
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  I don't like is always going to be like and yeah, it usually.
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  Occurs kind of in your in your twenties but some people it can
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  kind of crop up very soon after their first job especially if
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  it's a job that they're realizing they're not enjoying
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  at all for some people, it comes a bit later, maybe when they've
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  worked up to a certain level of success and they expected that
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  once they reach that success led to be happy.
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  And now they're realizing oh, I'm still not happy.
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  Okay, what now? Yeah, so it's a is too kind of
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  crisis. Around.
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  Yeah, is this life? Is this what life is?
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  And I'm not real frustration and confusion around that.
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  Thanks for answering. I did.
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  So I always do my research heavily on my guests before I
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  actually get into it. But I like to get my guests kind
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  of take on things or in their own words Etc.
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  But you know I confess I looked into it as well and I was like,
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  why is this? Why is it because obviously,
• 2:16
  everyone knows what. Midlife crisis is and we'll get
• 2:20
  into that in a second. But I was like, is this a thing?
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  Is this, just a kind of a phrase you've coined, which is kind of
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  cool because I thought was brilliant soon as I heard I was
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  like, that's that's an interesting concept and then I
• 2:31
  started looking into it and based on what you've just
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  outlined there is just like, oh, okay, so it's something we
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  probably had like, I mean, I've had it several times in my 20s,
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  I'm nearly at the end. Now, it sounds an ominous, 29
• 2:46
  years old and I could probably say I've had at least two or
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  three of those in my 20s and he is interesting as well.
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  Just this idea of being disillusioned by things or not
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  knowing what what one is doing like for example, my first major
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  one I would say was when I was at Uni in second year university
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  and yes it's quite common for people to feel like they want to
• 3:16
  drop out when you're at University and Especially when
• 3:19
  you just go to this work and you just like what we're doing.
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  But as the life goes on and at University, you do kind of
• 3:27
  realize that the whole thing is kind of for a majority of
• 3:32
  degrees, and I've said this before, on the shows, it's not
• 3:34
  that controversial. But for a majority of degrees,
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  it is this whole business thing constructed to just kind of take
• 3:42
  your money. Yeah, don't get me wrong.
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  There are many fields where it's absolutely necessary, like,
• 3:48
  becoming a Becoming a doctor Etc.
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  And I do actually still think there's a lot of value in it,
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  but my personal experience was, I didn't The things I got out of
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  University once a much to do with the actual subjects
• 4:01
  themselves, it was more to do with like networking, The
• 4:05
  Experience people stuff like that people.
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  I met Etc. But to get to the point, I
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  remember there was one particular lesson I had with
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  this teacher and I was being very flippant for no apparent
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  reason, because he was a really nice guy.
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  I was just in a disillusion State and I was like, well, why
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  are we even here? What's the point?
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  And he's just like, well, You don't have to be here and I saw
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  I sat there thinking, like, no, I don't, I could just leave.
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  I feel like, that's a bad idea. And ultimately, I chose to stay
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  because quite stubborn and I don't like to not finish things.
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  I've started, I mean, you know, it's hard for me to give up on
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  things in life, especially something like that, where you
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  put so much time and effort into it and then you kind of like
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  what we're doing, right? But there was that moment.
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  Where I was just like, this is pointless.
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  There's, there's no reason for this.
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  What, what am I doing? What's the meaning of all of
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  this? And it was also like a kind of
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  Somewhat existential moment as well as like in general in life.
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  This what is the point of this? And after I got the degree and
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  we moved on and everything, it was actually fine for a few
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  years. You know, I got into the field I
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  studied which was marketing and everything was great for like 8
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  to 10 months. And then the next quarter life
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  crisis, same thing sat down at a desk and that was even more
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  frustrating because I looked at it and was like, you know, I
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  worked many years. In customer services.
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  I did things. I didn't want to do now.
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  I'm in by all intensive purposes, to thing, I signed up
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  for the thing I wanted to do, but I'm not happy.
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  Why am I not happy? And obviously, it was because I
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  was not pursuing the things I'm seeing now, which is creative
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  Endeavors. Acting music podcasting is
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  cetera, but I didn't know that then because I knew I'd given up
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  on dreams years ago, but I just was thinking, well, you know,
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  I'm an adult. Now, you know, you gotta go up.
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  And can't be chasing these pipe dreams and then then there's
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  that moment you're like, well, actually maybe you should be
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  chasing those dreams. Maybe if you're not chasing
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  those dreams, there's an inherent problem and I think
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  that's maybe one of the reasons why people find themselves in
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  quarter life crisis and especially midlife crisis.
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  That when I heard about this this quarter life crisis
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  concept, I feel like if that happens several times, And your
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  life and you and you ignore it every single time.
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  Then when you get to the point where you're having a midlife
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  crisis, it's like I don't say like complete your folks.
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  I don't always think that's the case but it's like you've had
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  many warnings and you've let it get to that point and obviously
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  as we know midlife crisis a little bit different, it's more
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  like a you get to a certain age maybe forties fifties and you
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  feel like you've not really explored the possibilities of
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  what you could have done in your younger years you know like you
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  and then obviously there's little bit jokes like I'm going
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  to go out and buy a motorbike or I'm going to suddenly go
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  traveling and I still think people should do those things.
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  But it's this idea that you know, you've All lived enough,
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  maybe maybe that's pressure from other people.
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  Maybe that's internal, pressure, whatever.
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  But to me, this seems like the beginning of that.
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  Like this is like the journey to that perhaps, but I'm interested
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  like do for you. Did you, where was the point
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  where you started experiencing that?
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  Because obviously the things that we end up studying our then
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  they come from somewhere. So is that personal experience?
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  Perience. So for you, what was your
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  quarter life crisis moment? So I would also say I've had
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  kind of to crisis and I'm 27. So again nearing the end of my
• 7:49
  twenties slowly but the first real crisis and a bigger one
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  came came after I started working, my first proper kind of
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  real job. Yeah, so I studied a thing
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  called Actuarial. University, which directly lead
• 8:09
  into the career part of being an actuary, which is some be kind
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  of works out pension payments, and payouts and insurance.
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  And a lot of statistics and stuff like that and during the
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  course of the degree realized it was much too hard and I wasn't
• 8:27
  enjoying it and I didn't want to go into finance and the people
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  that I was studying alongside white really like me.
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  And yeah the idea of then going into To finance company it was
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  was just, yeah, terrifying for me.
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  So I figured out at least that I didn't want to do that.
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  And when I graduated, I went traveling for a few months,
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  which is something that I knew I had wanted to do for a long time
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  anyway. So it wasn't like a last-minute
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  Panic, kind of decision, but it was.
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  Yeah, I was supposed to be kind of taking some time to figure
• 9:00
  out, maybe what I did want to do.
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  When I got back to you London, I joined up with my boyfriend who
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  had waited for me in the UK while I was traveling for about
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  four months and yeah he really put the pressure on to get a job
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  you know which you know, fair enough fair enough to pay the
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  bills man. Come on.
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  Yeah, that kind of thing. He was cricket, he was King here
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  to move in together and find a place and kind of Our kind of
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  Papa life together, post studying.
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  Yeah. So I had no idea what I really
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  wanted to do, got in touch with a few recruiters, they put me on
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  the path or of marketing, actually the same as what you
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  ended up in because I was basically looking for something
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  where there was some maths and stats involved, but very quite
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  simple, not not anywhere near the level that I had been
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  studying up. So I got into marketing and the
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  company was lovely. The really small company with a
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  really nice College. I really laid back, really nice
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  training program to start with. So I was kind of feeling, okay?
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  For a for a while, kind of quickly, very quickly found that
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  job. Luckily started straight away
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  started the training. It was all going quite quickly
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  and things were looking, okay? And then, when the kind of
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  training period ended and I was like settling into the role,
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  then I was really like Oh like what?
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  Huh like how did I actually end up here?
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  Like, I'm in marketing. I like never even considered
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  that I was yeah, I didn't have any goals or any plans for my
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  future. I might my plan always ended at
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  graduate go travelling for coming up tree and now I had
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  done those things, but I wasn't in a tree and I was very very
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  confused and very I was kind of freaking out.
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  I remember I had a conversation with.
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  My mom was like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, like I
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  feel weird. Like I felt very, very strange
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  and very uncomfortable. And yeah, I just wasn't really
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  in a good place and that's when I kind of started getting into
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  personal development a little bit.
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  So I got interested in that and I'm very, very slowly started
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  making changes and becoming more self aware of who I was and what
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  I wanted. And yeah slowly kind of edge
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  towards something a bit more like me in my life but but yeah
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  I had a bit of a second crisis after I quit that job in
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  marketing. Three years later when traveling
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  again to India and still didn't really know what I wanted to do,
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  I had the idea of going into into charity, work for that kind
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  of stuff, but the conversations I was having with people who are
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  in that sector. Kind of put me off.
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  They were saying, and if it's a small charity, it can be very
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  overwhelming and the workload is huge because they're, yeah,
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  everyone is overworked and small Charities but then you feel like
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  I'm making a difference. But if you go into a big charity
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  it's is much more corporate and it's kind of like a regular
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  company and you don't really feel like you're making a direct
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  benefit. So I was kind of like always you
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  know, and then yeah I kind of threw out the travels was
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  Lockdown in India for a while, with a lot of time to think and
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  still no Solutions and feeling worried.
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  And then a period of about a year where I was cycling around
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  Europe, with the guy that I met in India and trying out a lot of
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  different things through. So website, called work way,
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  where there's lots of posts looking for volunteers and yeah,
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  I had a few really interesting experiences on a Eat farm and on
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  organic vegetable farm and helping out a B&B and a bunch of
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  different things, which kind of pointed me more in the direction
• 13:06
  of like, maybe you'll actually like the countryside and maybe
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  you actually do like talking to people more than you saw and
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  stuff like this. So that was kind of my second
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  crisis, trying to figure it out and then eventually ended up.
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  Yeah. Well, I am hopefully trying to
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  help them other people because they're all eight out of the
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  crisis. it's interesting as as listing to speak, their of sieve
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  had varied experiences, you've experienced a lot done a lot and
• 13:36
  kind of, as I was listening, I was kind of thinking about this
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  this concept of the idea that there has to be sort of a
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  supposed rules in, how you live your life like earlier in my
• 13:49
  podcast, I don't know maybe about a year ago or so I did an
• 13:52
  episode on Plymouth e and multi potentiality for those who don't
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  know is basically just people that have interests or maybe
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  jobs in lots of lots of different fields at one time and
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  The key thing that one of the key themes, I explored in that
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  was this idea that many people like Specialists, like, they
• 14:16
  focus on one field, and that field alone, and when you think
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  about it, it's quite a 1950s, kind of nuclear mindset of like,
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  oh, well, I got a job and work for 60 for 50 years and retire
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  and it's like, yeah, that worked maybe in the 50s, but like the
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  world has changed, life is different, everything is
• 14:35
  different. I mean, most companies these
• 14:37
  days people Don't intend to. They tend to be in the company
• 14:42
  of between six months to a year toe, the absolute maximum, but
• 14:45
  probably even shorter than that. Point is, you know, there's this
• 14:51
  expectation to stay in a field or to rise up in the ranks of a
• 14:56
  company or whatever the case may be.
• 14:58
  But I don't hear a lot of people necessarily turn around and
• 15:02
  saying hmm. Maybe life is supposed to be
• 15:05
  like a kind of a revolving door and you just try a lot of
• 15:07
  different things and you don't have to stick to one thing, you
• 15:10
  know, right now your recorder life quote, quite quarter, life
• 15:14
  crisis coach and you're helping people who've had a similar
• 15:16
  thing. That might be the thing you do
• 15:19
  the rest, your life, and that's a awesome thing to do.
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  And it's, it comes from a place of experience.
• 15:24
  So it's perfect, but it might not be the only thing you might
• 15:27
  do other things in life, you know.
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  It's hard to say when I look at my life.
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  I I've worked in customer services, I've worked in
• 15:37
  marketing. I thought its sales recruitment.
• 15:40
  I've done acting, I've done various different things and the
• 15:45
  one thing that links everything is this idea of you keep
• 15:48
  yourself open to Opportunities, then it can kind of throw you in
• 15:52
  different places. And I'm always trying to look
• 15:55
  for The sort of the key that links everything.
• 15:59
  So for me in my life, it's creativity.
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  I know that I need to do creative things, in order to be
• 16:05
  happy, especially performing, or talking, or whatever the case
• 16:08
  may be for yourself. It's interesting because it's
• 16:11
  like, This idea that for your experiences, your able to offer
• 16:18
  people advice and even being able to offer, people advice is
• 16:23
  skill in of itself. But being able to deliver that
• 16:26
  information, being able to steer people in that in that right
• 16:29
  direction. How when you actually looked
• 16:34
  into this and wanted to become a quarter life crisis, coach, like
• 16:38
  what will kind of key things that you have to learn in order
• 16:42
  to essentially, teach people? Coach people.
• 16:46
  Yeah. So firstly, I just want to say
• 16:47
  that. I didn't kind of have a clear
• 16:50
  idea that I was going to be a quarter.
• 16:52
  Life crisis, coach, I started off just exploring the idea of
• 16:56
  life coaching. So I took an online course in
• 17:00
  that and was really interested. But yeah, when I started a
• 17:03
  course, I was kind of like, oh, well, it could lead to
• 17:06
  something, but this court seems interesting.
• 17:08
  And it looks like I'm gonna learn some skills regardless of.
• 17:11
  If I end up deciding to go, See you as a career or not and
• 17:17
  through that course. Yeah, it was, it was much more
• 17:20
  about taking me through the process of kind of being coached
• 17:24
  and looking at my own values and looking at what I want from life
• 17:27
  and looking at my limiting beliefs and it kind of guides
• 17:30
  you through the process yourself.
• 17:33
  So that you are kind of clear on what you actually want and then
• 17:37
  it helps you to then take other people to either the process.
• 17:41
  And another big thing is obviously Like active, listening
• 17:45
  empathic listening. Yeah, not not putting out any
• 17:49
  sorts of judgments on other people and also not actually
• 17:52
  giving advice. So coaching is not all about
• 17:56
  advice-giving. It's about guiding people to
• 18:00
  answer their own questions and find their own truth and yeah,
• 18:05
  figure out what they want and who they are.
• 18:08
  So I wouldn't tell someone in a session.
• 18:10
  What they should be doing or what they should be exploring.
• 18:13
  But I'm just trying to kind of provoked them to ignite their
• 18:17
  curiosity and yeah it's exploring and pursue different
• 18:21
  things. Would have been also go, local
• 18:26
  rulers, gonna follow up with was what been your biggest success
• 18:31
  cases with regards to the quarter life crisis coaching?
• 18:36
  Yeah, so I'm still pretty new. So I Completed the course at the
• 18:41
  very end of last year and then since the beginning of this
• 18:44
  year, have really been working on setting up a business, which
• 18:47
  is completely new to me and completely something that I
• 18:51
  actually never wanted to do if you'd have spoken to me at any
• 18:55
  point before, kind of six months to a year ago.
• 18:59
  I really would have said I never wanted to run my own business.
• 19:02
  I actually never want to be self-employed.
• 19:04
  So yeah, that was a lot of work in thing up her website and I'm
• 19:09
  getting you It's the idea of that, and I just recently
• 19:12
  created the crisis to curiosity program that when I decided,
• 19:20
  okay, life coaching is great and it's very broad.
• 19:22
  How am I going to attract people?
• 19:23
  What what the areas that I actually have the most expertise
• 19:29
  on I guess? And I settled on quarter life
• 19:32
  crisis as being something that that I thought was really useful
• 19:36
  to focus on. So I created a program and I've
• 19:39
  got a couple of people working through it for the first time
• 19:42
  now and yeah, I've got one girl that going through it, who's in
• 19:48
  a mid twenties and and was feeling like she's got her dream
• 19:53
  job. She was actually, she's also in
• 19:55
  marketing. She got her dream job but she
• 19:58
  felt like the other areas of her life were lacking and he was,
• 20:04
  yeah, she wasn't feeling so good about where she was overall even
• 20:08
  though that she Considered the god that she had to be her kind
• 20:11
  of dream job. And yeah, we're five weeks into
• 20:16
  the program now. And yeah, she's already.
• 20:20
  He's already really seeing the benefits of making small
• 20:24
  changes, which is what I encourage people to do.
• 20:27
  The final week is about planning for the long-term.
• 20:30
  But, you know, through those first five weeks, it's the big
• 20:33
  focus on small changes habit, changes, opening your mind to a
• 20:38
  KU your Current routine but you know, that any ways that you can
• 20:44
  change that routine that will make you happier.
• 20:48
  So she's she's really been enjoying the program and it
• 20:51
  seems like she's already got a lot from it.
• 20:53
  Something in there that you said at the beginning was very
• 20:56
  interesting to me said that, you never wanted to set up your own
• 21:00
  business. How long did you fight against
• 21:03
  that concept? It just was something that I had
• 21:08
  never even considered. The reason that I that I didn't
• 21:12
  want to sell my own business mainly is because I've seen my
• 21:16
  Mom struggle and fail at kind of two businesses.
• 21:23
  So so my grandparents own newsagents and they were quite
• 21:27
  successful in that and they I guess eventually convinced my
• 21:32
  mom to go down the same path and Yeah, she she got a newsagent
• 21:37
  with with my stepdad and they went into it with 33.
• 21:42
  Well, two kids when I started and soon after three kids.
• 21:48
  And and it's very, very long hours is very demanding.
• 21:52
  You know, they were waking up at 4 a.m. 5 a.m. to prepare the
• 21:55
  newspaper around, and then they would be working until until 6
• 21:59
  p.m., you know, serving seven, customers and use agent and that
• 22:05
  would be Be Monday to Saturday and then Sunday, it would be
• 22:09
  until 12:00. So they'd have Sunday afternoons
• 22:12
  or, and that was that. Jeez really every week Sunday's
• 22:17
  every week come down. Yeah.
• 22:20
  That was it. So yeah, it was a and they were
• 22:25
  making okay money for a while. Yeah, for a while, they were
• 22:30
  making some good money and we were going on family holidays
• 22:32
  and stuff like this, but the beginning part of starting up
• 22:35
  was difficult and then they ended up breaking up and the
• 22:40
  yeah, the Fallout from, from them going there to separate
• 22:44
  ways was pretty intense and left my mom with with not much, not
• 22:51
  much left. Basically, she then started or
• 22:56
  she then Took over a cafe and a similar story.
• 23:02
  She started it was with a guy that she had.
• 23:05
  You been seeing her, they two years or something like this and
• 23:10
  I really warned her mum. Are you really doing this again?
• 23:15
  But she did and and that landed in have landed her in a lot of
• 23:19
  debt. So again that those two broke
• 23:22
  up, my mom had been struggling struggling.
• 23:27
  Money before that. And then with Tim leaving and
• 23:30
  leaving my mom moves with the cafe, but that was not turning
• 23:34
  over and Walden. She was spending on it.
• 23:36
  She was just getting more and more into debt and eventually
• 23:39
  had to sell and yeah, nearly lost her house.
• 23:42
  So those experiences and exposures to running a business
• 23:48
  and being self-employed really did not inspire me at all to
• 23:53
  try. And I think like that and I
• 23:56
  really didn't mind the kind of 925 lifestyle, once I got used
• 24:01
  to it. Once I started that job, I was
• 24:05
  quite happy to turn up for work. Work my hours, put in effort.
• 24:10
  I was always, I always wanted to give my best, but at the end of
• 24:14
  the day, I went home and I didn't have to think about it,
• 24:17
  which for me was a big change from studying, especially at
• 24:20
  University where I was really, really struggling with the with
• 24:24
  the studying I found it incredibly hard.
• 24:26
  I always At this guilt that I should be studying more.
• 24:31
  Yeah. And it was kind of a never
• 24:32
  ending thing of studying. So getting into that 95
• 24:36
  lifestyle actually was a nice change for me.
• 24:40
  So yeah those two things kind of just make me think no, you know
• 24:45
  what? I don't mind being employed and
• 24:47
  running a business is not something I would ever
• 24:49
  interested in. Do you think with your mother,
• 24:54
  it was more a case of The relationship aspect being
• 24:59
  problematic for the business, the running of the business and
• 25:02
  the eventual downfall, or do you think it was there anything?
• 25:04
  Do you think you'd learn from that, that she could have done
• 25:08
  better maybe or maybe things that you learn from that
• 25:11
  situation that have, you know? Now you've learned not to do
• 25:15
  that in the running of your own business.
• 25:20
  Yeah, I think I think going into business with a partner is
• 25:25
  always going to be very tricky and I think yeah if anyone
• 25:30
  should think very carefully about whether it's right for
• 25:32
  them. My mom she didn't really make,
• 25:37
  you know, conscious decisions of whether it was the right thing
• 25:39
  to do. Either times, it was more Both
• 25:44
  times it was more of a necessity than of conscious good choice.
• 25:51
  She she has been a single mom for for a lot of my childhood
• 25:55
  and and hadn't been able to be employed, you know, she had to
• 25:59
  stay home and look after look after the kids and work.
• 26:03
  Can I put a part-time job sometimes?
• 26:06
  But She she never liked the idea of a 9 to 5 job that was never
• 26:13
  something that she was interested in.
• 26:15
  She doesn't like people but she doesn't have cop qualifications.
• 26:19
  So, in her mind, her her job options were working in Tesco
• 26:26
  and and that is not something that interested her at all.
• 26:32
  So I guess she always thought that running her own business
• 26:35
  was her only option because she wasn't employable Oil.
• 26:39
  And yeah, so she never went into either of those things but with
• 26:43
  a passion for business or serving people or anything like
• 26:47
  that and in the cafe, in particular, she wasn't even good
• 26:50
  at cooking. So it was, it was never in a
• 26:52
  what? It was never going to work.
• 26:55
  How did she overcome? We working for working in these
• 27:01
  agents Cafe? I've been it's all about your
• 27:03
  custom mean any business about customers, but especially in
• 27:06
  those fields because it's special Is this all that
• 27:08
  service? Isn't it?
• 27:09
  And building a rapport and getting regular customers?
• 27:12
  Like how did she overcome that? Yeah, I mean, in the case of the
• 27:19
  newsagent, my stepdad her partner.
• 27:23
  At the time he was a very people person.
• 27:25
  So he enjoyed the interaction with the customers, and my mum
• 27:30
  could, I guess she could put on a front and not that that she,
• 27:36
  you know, she wasn't, she was never rude to the people.
• 27:41
  And, and often, you know, she would as a teenage girl, I
• 27:45
  enjoyed hearing. Her stories of the local gossip
• 27:48
  from the people that were coming in and sharing their life
• 27:51
  stories with her, which, which happens a lot actually, it
• 27:55
  happened a lot and the area that we were living in was a lot of
• 28:00
  old people who, you know, they just want to talk to anyone.
• 28:05
  Yeah, right. Yeah, this is interesting, I can
• 28:10
  relate to that, but my dad's a business owner, and when he was
• 28:14
  younger, Cuz I learned about him, he's actually a very shy
• 28:20
  man and but he always appeared to be that very bubbly and, you
• 28:25
  know, talkative and he is that person.
• 28:27
  But you know, I think when he's comfortable and you know, you
• 28:33
  had this perception of your parents, what they show you but
• 28:35
  then as you get older you realize how they really are, you
• 28:38
  know, they show more of themselves.
• 28:40
  Whatever. And it was very interesting for
• 28:42
  me to see how he from a business standpoint, he was always just
• 28:48
  you know talkative bubbly guy but then on his own is very
• 28:53
  quiet didn't want to talk about. Then I didn't understand it.
• 28:55
  Now, I totally get it's like didn't want to talk.
• 28:57
  He just wanted to just decompress.
• 29:00
  This don't talk stand up, please makes perfect sense.
• 29:03
  Now and now all these years later, he still doing this
• 29:07
  business but he's when I asked him about his work now.
• 29:11
  And does he still interact with the customers and stuff?
• 29:13
  He said he's completely changed and he's much more.
• 29:18
  Just just focus on the work and that's it.
• 29:20
  And, you know, it's changed it up a lot and obviously people
• 29:22
  change in time the way you approach businesses changes in
• 29:26
  time and businesses themselves change.
• 29:27
  But it's interesting and I think for people that are maybe more
• 29:33
  introverted, it's a lot more difficult to force, the out of
• 29:38
  yourself or to bring that out of yourself and yeah, it's not
• 29:41
  easy. I just even being a
• 29:43
  conversationalist in general. For me.
• 29:48
  I feel like generally speaking, I'm very good at, but not always
• 29:53
  sometimes it, you know, you just find yourself in there, are
• 29:55
  these amazing people that can make conversations with every
• 29:58
  anyone and I think that's incredible.
• 30:00
  I wish I could do that, but it's yeah.
• 30:03
  It's not, not, not for everyone, you know.
• 30:05
  It's and I think when you're a bit more introverted, it's a lot
• 30:09
  harder to do that. Because you do when you feel
• 30:13
  comfortable, if you don't feel comfortable, you might not say a
• 30:15
  word. And that's often where I sit on
• 30:17
  that. But as you said before like with
• 30:20
  business you kind of just have to do things.
• 30:22
  You have to make things happen. It said how she's she was you
• 30:28
  know, head of your family and stuff and she just had to do
• 30:32
  these things. Not necessarily because it's
• 30:33
  good business idea, but just because it's like well this is
• 30:36
  what we need to bring money in to help our family to make
• 30:39
  things happen, you know and they're bringing it back to kind
• 30:42
  of this idea of having to do things.
• 30:46
  I really relate to you in terms of This concept of, you know,
• 30:50
  not wanting to do something and then ending up doing it because
• 30:53
  it was the same for me. I'm free lunch, too.
• 30:55
  And I never wanted to be freelance.
• 30:58
  I was actually scared of the idea, I thought like, oh no,
• 31:01
  that's there's no job security. And that which in retrospect is
• 31:05
  hilarious because and for anyone listening is never was conceived
• 31:10
  because who's never worked. I don't fit anywhere listing who
• 31:15
  maybe is scared about going into Dancing or self-employment, I
• 31:20
  honestly can say that. I don't think there's much
• 31:22
  difference between that and standard employment.
• 31:27
  As far as job security is concerned.
• 31:29
  There's more of a risk. It's harder to find work and
• 31:31
  it's you have to put more time and effort into getting the
• 31:34
  work, but you're in control, you know, you're not going to get
• 31:39
  fired, you know, you might lose contracts, but you'll find more,
• 31:43
  but no one's going to like, randomly just Fi, you know, give
• 31:47
  you your two weeks notice or whatever.
• 31:48
  It's not going to happen and it's very liberating.
• 31:53
  I think being being freelance and being self-employed, it's
• 31:56
  gives you a lot more control over things.
• 31:59
  And I think people get scared by the idea of that, not being able
• 32:02
  to find work and stuff. But I think again that comes
• 32:05
  down to things like, budgeting and being clever with your
• 32:07
  money, it's that okay, maybe I'll get a project or in your
• 32:10
  case, you get like several clients and you make that last a
• 32:14
  certain amount of time like monetarily Peeking.
• 32:18
  It's just a little, I think a lot more planning and as you
• 32:20
  said, like a different way of approaching things and adjusting
• 32:24
  and, you know, I get people's understanding of like, okay,
• 32:29
  it's a nine-to-five or it's a standard job, like there's
• 32:31
  Security in that, but the security lasts only as long as
• 32:35
  your relationship with your employer, a lot is good and, you
• 32:39
  know, I've worked in companies before where seemingly the
• 32:42
  relationships were good but that didn't matter and the person
• 32:45
  It's fired because business is business, you know, if the
• 32:49
  things aren't doing well then, you know, you know, the first
• 32:56
  thing is, always to let stuff go.
• 32:58
  I've noticed this it's not is necessarily the right decision.
• 33:00
  I think, you know, if you're losing money, the last thing you
• 33:04
  should do is start cutting staff.
• 33:06
  Unless you've got, I don't know people on your payroll that you
• 33:10
  don't need to have on your payroll.
• 33:11
  I understand that. But the people working for You
• 33:15
  make your business happen. So cutting your employees just
• 33:20
  seems a bit counterproductive, but that's just me.
• 33:25
  What would you say? Were kind of, like, the major
• 33:26
  things you had to shift, as far as your mindset and approach
• 33:30
  when going from tastes more standard employment to
• 33:34
  self-employed freelance. So I'm definitely still working
• 33:39
  through the mindset of it. Definitely.
• 33:42
  I think because it had been quite a long I'm between
• 33:46
  question my job in marketing to starting or trying to start a
• 33:51
  business. It's been, it's been two years.
• 33:54
  So I've been pretty much traveling around hopping from
• 33:57
  place to place volunteering in different locations.
• 34:01
  So, in terms of the shift from kind of do the regular life with
• 34:07
  a 9 to 5 job to to freelance. It was a, it wasn't like a
• 34:13
  direct shift. There was a long period of time.
• 34:15
  Time where where I was in charge of my own time.
• 34:19
  I was barely free to go where I wanted to do what I want.
• 34:24
  You know, I was volunteering at certain times but the the way
• 34:29
  that work way works is the maximum amount of time you're
• 34:33
  working in a week or volunteering in a week is 25
• 34:36
  hours. So you've got a lot of free time
• 34:39
  to do what you want. And a lot of the hosts are very
• 34:41
  flexible in terms of, so if you want to, you know, deal with I
• 34:45
  was in four days that's fine. Or if you want to, you know, do
• 34:50
  a couple of hours every day. That's also fine.
• 34:54
  So, yeah. If you're lucky, you really do
• 34:56
  have a lot of flexibility. So that was definitely
• 34:59
  something. I was already in the mindset of
• 35:02
  that flexibility but then there was a lot of work, but I'm still
• 35:07
  having to do around routines and habits and making sure I'm
• 35:11
  getting off on time and actually doing work and not waking up
• 35:15
  late. And then, you know, working all
• 35:17
  evening because I'm freaking out that I haven't done a thing I
• 35:20
  wanted. So the discipline has definitely
• 35:24
  been something that I'm still working on and that's also one
• 35:28
  of the reasons why it didn't really ever think I would be
• 35:31
  good at having my own business because kind of State University
• 35:37
  my discipline to do things on my own.
• 35:39
  Like just fell off a cliff like I was always a very good kid.
• 35:45
  I was very self motivated to study or to out my like, GCS
• 35:49
  used throughout my a-levels. And then when I got to
• 35:52
  University, it was so difficult. And it was such a short and I
• 35:55
  really didn't want to do it. And I was struggling with my
• 35:57
  mental health, a lot, especially in my final year, my motivation
• 36:02
  just completely died and I just don't think I've ever really got
• 36:07
  it back to where it was when I was kind of a teenager.
• 36:10
  So that's been a big thing. And I've also that that mindset
• 36:14
  shift Towards I do deserve to get clients.
• 36:18
  I am good enough to tell or to kind of, you know, guide people.
• 36:23
  I am the right person to be doing there.
• 36:27
  Yeah. Also a lot of work on that
• 36:28
  thing. When you were at University,
• 36:33
  what would you say? That the, the way it was set up
• 36:37
  kind of pushed you to feel that that was there like more
• 36:39
  personal reasons, driving that as well combination of
• 36:42
  everything. The reason I ask is that I had
• 36:46
  similar frustrations when I was at University to, like, I
• 36:50
  understood the concept of independent study and that you
• 36:53
  would have to be a shift from a level, and you'd have to kind of
• 36:56
  be responsible, but it really did feel like we were just
• 37:01
  teaching ourselves the degree and it At least I had to piss me
• 37:07
  off, to be honest. I was paying all this money and
• 37:09
  like, I'll give you an example as one course that we had where.
• 37:16
  So, you know, like how they make you buy all textbooks at the
• 37:19
  beginning of the term, but then you don't actually necessarily
• 37:22
  need them because they tell you that, you know, you have to buy
• 37:25
  all these textbooks and they're going to be used throughout the
• 37:28
  seminars and stuff like that. What they don't tell you is that
• 37:31
  there is a bunch of different Books available all in the
• 37:36
  library that you can rent for free, you can also just rent,
• 37:39
  you know, borrow your friends books for a copy, the stuff you
• 37:42
  need before the seminar, you know, they won't tell you that
• 37:45
  there's black. No, you need to buy these
• 37:46
  70-pound. The pop books anyway.
• 37:52
  So we get this particular subject which was not, it was a
• 37:56
  foundational one, it wasn't even one that I chose was just one we
• 38:00
  had to do and we'll get the textbook.
• 38:03
  Like I had the text book and I read through Stan.
• 38:05
  I'd, you know, it made a good effort actually bother with it
• 38:08
  and try and the first couple of lectures that we had in this
• 38:13
  particular field, we will hang on, that sounds familiar and of
• 38:17
  course. So, you know, most of the
• 38:21
  lecturers wouldn't be like this. They would actually talk to you
• 38:24
  interact. The good ones would interact
• 38:25
  with you. Those are the ones worth going
• 38:27
  to but many of them would either do one or two things.
• 38:30
  Either one talk nonsense for like 50 minutes which might have
• 38:35
  some Election to what you were doing but mostly didn't and it
• 38:38
  was just one big ego trip 50 minutes that just didn't, I
• 38:42
  don't know it just it served no purpose.
• 38:46
  Or number two, they would read word for word verbatim from a
• 38:52
  PowerPoint pay. Nine grand a terms of this Dice
• 38:59
  and Grad Plus other fees. And this particular lecture, not
• 39:05
  only did the lecture, I have the PowerPoint on the backboard, but
• 39:09
  she was also reading from her book that she wrote this
• 39:15
  textbook word for word. So basically, it was just a
• 39:19
  glorified reading session where you could just sit and listen to
• 39:23
  this teacher, read her own book for 50 minutes.
• 39:27
  And then she had the audacity to complain when we wouldn't turn
• 39:30
  up to the lectures. Which by all intents and
• 39:33
  purposes was a waste of time. Like you cut and you got your
• 39:38
  cart just that, no one could justify it to me that that was
• 39:41
  not a waste of time. So I and most of my year, just
• 39:44
  stop bothering and going to those lectures.
• 39:46
  We went to every single seminar seminars invaluable but those
• 39:50
  lectures. Absolutely pointless.
• 39:52
  But that was served some of my frustrations, other things
• 39:55
  included, just you know getting marks back late, you know,
• 40:00
  teachers not giving you enough. Direction as far as where to go,
• 40:05
  but what were the key problems? You were facing that.
• 40:07
  Why were you struggling and What were the problems for you?
• 40:14
  Yeah. So for me, I'm going to assume
• 40:18
  that maybe you studied the humanities kind of a subject
• 40:21
  based on what you're talking about.
• 40:23
  I did I did business management with marketing, right?
• 40:27
  Tells me, Okay. Yeah, so I've heard that
• 40:31
  experience a lot where the lectures are are pretty
• 40:35
  pointless. And are ya talkin about some
• 40:39
  random thing that electron wants to talk while which you don't
• 40:42
  find relevant or are just reading from their own book, or
• 40:45
  whatever. And my experience, with
• 40:49
  Actuarial science being almost exclusively maths with a little
• 40:54
  bit of finance, a little bit of finance and economics, doing it,
• 40:58
  but really not. Huge amount of tool.
• 41:00
  It was, it was not, it was not the kind of thing where you
• 41:06
  know, the lecture would go off on some R&R and you know, they
• 41:09
  need to cover the master of it and they do but and we also had
• 41:15
  a lot of contact time so compared to a lot of people in
• 41:18
  my University that I was in Halls word or friends with that,
• 41:21
  we're doing history or international relations or
• 41:25
  something like that. I had almost doubled a contact
• 41:28
  time compared to them, so I was in more lecture as I was in more
• 41:31
  classes and stuff like that. And it was some of the lecturers
• 41:39
  were good. Most of them were not most of
• 41:43
  them really were not. How was that was one in
• 41:46
  particular that I had for the two different modules, one in
• 41:51
  second year, and one, in third year, and he was an incredibly
• 41:55
  smart guy, incredibly smart, but that made him a terrible.
• 42:00
  Terrible lecture in teacher just He just, he was so smart that he
• 42:06
  couldn't explain it in a way that was accessible to someone
• 42:09
  who wasn't on his level. And obviously, we're learning
• 42:12
  these things for the first time. We are not on his level and and
• 42:19
  it was so bad and I guess he had had so much bad feedback over
• 42:24
  the years that his solution instead of improving his
• 42:30
  teaching, maybe he basically told you all the answers.
• 42:34
  The exam before the exam. So in the final lecture, you
• 42:37
  needed to make sure that you went to that one and he would
• 42:41
  heavily hint which past paper questions, you should focus your
• 42:47
  revision on and that was his solution.
• 42:51
  Basically was to just tell you what was going to be in the exam
• 42:56
  and hope for the best. But even then, I was struggling,
• 43:00
  even even in my third year course with him, I still nearly
• 43:03
  failed. That that path because I just
• 43:05
  didn't understand. So the idea of memorizing the
• 43:09
  solution to a similar problem. It just didn't translate for me
• 43:13
  because I could look at the, you know, the examples that I was
• 43:17
  supposed to be looking at. But I wouldn't understand how to
• 43:20
  get to the different steps. So, when I'm applying it to
• 43:22
  something that's very similar, I can't, I can't make those step.
• 43:26
  I can't recreate the steps because I just don't understand
• 43:29
  the links between them. And yes.
• 43:33
  So the difficulty of the course was very hard especially,
• 43:40
  Especially given the people I was studying with So my poor on
• 43:44
  Actuarial science. That was 60 people in my year
• 43:48
  and we studied a lot with people in business mathematics or
• 43:53
  something like that. And some economics people in
• 43:57
  first and second year and stuff on my actual course there were
• 44:00
  60 people and I was the only white person on my core so
• 44:05
  everyone else was from China. Was from Malaysia was from
• 44:09
  Singapore. And they were coming into the
• 44:12
  first year. A much higher level and
• 44:16
  knowledge of maths and I was because they'd already done it
• 44:19
  back in, you know, back in their home countries.
• 44:22
  So the first year but almost everyone else was revision.
• 44:27
  Whereas for me everything was new and everything was like you
• 44:32
  know I was needing to learn it or as far as like yeah we did
• 44:36
  this two years ago already like what?
• 44:40
  Yeah, so I was at a real disadvantage and being someone
• 44:43
  who Been told throughout my school career that I was a smart
• 44:48
  kid and that I was really intelligent and, you know, that
• 44:52
  I was going places and all this stuff and top marks in the class
• 44:56
  often took today and go into that kind of environment where I
• 45:02
  was dead. Last was very, very, very tough
• 45:07
  and yeah, it was very tough. I had a similar experience as
• 45:11
  well. Like I remember sitting down my
• 45:14
  very thin became first year for business management marketing.
• 45:18
  Its foundations, as you said, like you you have a mixed
• 45:21
  classes people from lots of different subjects and I think
• 45:26
  you have at least at my uni had until the beginning of second
• 45:29
  year to change your course. So you could still change.
• 45:31
  Your course if you wanted to so you'd have lots of different
• 45:34
  Foundation topics and some of them like that II think there's
• 45:39
  anyone marketing module in my first year which was just blew
• 45:42
  my mind. Everything else was Statistics
• 45:46
  and accounting and God knows to us.
• 45:48
  And I remember sitting down for my first lecture And it was
• 45:53
  quantitative quantitative statistics or something like
• 45:56
  that. And I just remember God oh my
• 45:57
  God, I've made a drastic error. This isn't what I thought I'd be
• 46:02
  studied. What is this?
• 46:03
  Oh my god. I've oh my God you know and then
• 46:07
  the funny thing was the next lesson.
• 46:10
  Something. Totally different was the
• 46:12
  complete flip 180. It was stuff.
• 46:14
  I'd done like first level. GCSE business that we done.
• 46:22
  A million times. So it was either way too easy or
• 46:25
  way too hard. There was like, no in between
• 46:28
  and this. Yeah.
• 46:29
  And you're, yeah, there's always going to be students that like
• 46:31
  levels above you that have studied a foundation year
• 46:34
  somewhere else, or particularly European students, they seem to
• 46:38
  and Asian students have like better, I think better education
• 46:41
  system. Maybe that's why that I think
• 46:43
  there's the Baccalaureate in Europe.
• 46:46
  I've always I've always thought the UK education system as
• 46:50
  pretty flawed and People say that in this country as well,
• 46:54
  like, I don't know gcses for example, very, very flawed
• 46:59
  sister. Basically I don't know, I think
• 47:02
  the biggest problem with it is probably just how it's How is
• 47:09
  carried out, you know, like you and even universities the same
• 47:13
  really, you know, you do several years of study to then do your
• 47:16
  final exams which are just purely based on memory of a few
• 47:21
  things. It doesn't really it's getting
• 47:24
  if your course is more heavily coursework waited, it's better.
• 47:29
  I think because, you know, your exam should still count for
• 47:31
  something, but at the same time, I just think in general, exams
• 47:35
  is kind of a flawed concept because it is just a memory
• 47:37
  thing. Has nothing to do with like
• 47:39
  actual learning. Like you can learn a great deal
• 47:43
  but like how can you be expected to memorize everything and they
• 47:47
  and they'll tell you as well that what you said about?
• 47:49
  Oh well you have to pick and choose what you revise and it's
• 47:52
  like well that's silly. If the goal is to learn as much
• 47:56
  as you can or you know, to become a master in this area,
• 47:59
  then why are you then having to pick and choose and essentially
• 48:03
  gamble what you study because that's what it was like for us
• 48:06
  in third years, just gambling? And my all well, hopefully this
• 48:10
  pays off. Luckily it did.
• 48:12
  But Fuck a big gamble, the whole thing.
• 48:16
  I just, I don't know. I feel for anyone going to
• 48:19
  University now as well. I feel like it's I think the
• 48:25
  biggest disillusion for me call a life crisis moment.
• 48:27
  If you like was realizing, the whole thing is structured
• 48:31
  towards just kind of taking your money really in every shape and
• 48:35
  form, even some of the lecturers said that.
• 48:38
  I remember we had a one lecturer who literally just turned around
• 48:41
  and said like, you are essentially customers consumers,
• 48:44
  you know, every time you give feedback that drives the
• 48:47
  seemingly the quality of things, it always should do.
• 48:50
  And to be fair, our uni did actually take that stuff on
• 48:52
  board and you would see changes That is so that was a positive,
• 48:56
  but I don't know. I feel like for instance, in
• 49:00
  this most recent pandemic, you got to see what a lot of
• 49:07
  universities attitudes are really like so so many people
• 49:11
  had to do coursework own also. Zoom cool courses and had like
• 49:18
  no contact hours or anything and which is understandable, given
• 49:20
  what was happening in the world but they were still expected to
• 49:24
  Pay full, you know, 9k a year, which I think it's a travesty to
• 49:29
  be honest, I can't believe they were charged all about money for
• 49:32
  nothing. What kind of experience is that
• 49:34
  you will new, you go to university, you pay for
• 49:36
  everything and don't get me wrong.
• 49:37
  I, I know you can't avoid something like a
• 49:40
  once-in-a-lifetime worldwide pandemic.
• 49:43
  I understand that. But at least give people their
• 49:45
  money back since they're not getting that full experience.
• 49:48
  Like they're literally just getting Zoom calls which This
• 49:54
  seems like an injustice really. Anyway.
• 49:59
  Move it on. Move it forward.
• 50:02
  Yes, it's an interesting themes that I think I've found either
• 50:04
  in a website or seeing you write about online that I wanted to
• 50:08
  sort of briefly mention talk us through the importance of self
• 50:13
  development in your own words. Okay.
• 50:19
  I think self development is very, very important.
• 50:25
  I think it can take many forms and a lot of the stuff that's
• 50:33
  traditionally self-help, maybe especially if things are kind of
• 50:37
  looked as self-help. I don't really love at all but
• 50:43
  the personal development for me and And what I think it should
• 50:47
  be, ideally is just getting to know yourself, better opening up
• 50:53
  your mind a little bit, kind of knowing what you want, knowing
• 50:58
  who you are, knowing how you can get the most out of your life.
• 51:02
  And it can relate to mindset, it can relate to learning, it can
• 51:08
  relate to a few different things but but what I learned is that
• 51:14
  it needs to be focused on action and not about only reflection.
• 51:20
  So when I was first starting out in my kind of personal
• 51:23
  development journey, I guess I was doing a lot of reflection.
• 51:27
  I was reading a lot of self-development stuff and then
• 51:31
  I was kind of Beating myself up about.
• 51:35
  Well, I know this stuff now but I'm I'm still doing the same
• 51:38
  things. I'm still stuck in the same
• 51:40
  routines, I'm still stuck in the same mindset.
• 51:43
  Why can't I why can't I do the things?
• 51:46
  I know I should be doing. So when you end up in that
• 51:50
  place, it can be really you motivating.
• 51:53
  You can really start beating yourself up and it can be
• 51:55
  counterproductive to stay in that kind of personal
• 51:58
  development space. If you're not also taking
• 52:01
  action, That action is really where you find a benefit and,
• 52:07
  and yeah, it should also there's a fine line between personal
• 52:13
  growth and I'm wanting to improve yourself because you're
• 52:17
  interested in that constant Challenge and that constant kind
• 52:19
  of improvement, I guess. But but it should be coming from
• 52:25
  a place where you're okay with you are now and you accept who
• 52:30
  you are now. so that you can keep on challenging yourself and
• 52:35
  keep growing rather than been trying to change yourself or
• 52:40
  trying to better yourself because you don't feel like, who
• 52:43
  you are now is good enough. So that's a really fine line as
• 52:47
  well, that you should really be aware of and really something to
• 52:50
  consider How come one attempt to overcome the feeling of a lack
• 52:57
  of self-fulfillment? Yeah.
• 53:03
  So I would say that kind of lack of self-fulfillment is one of
• 53:09
  the like the main causes of a quarter life crisis or also I
• 53:12
  guess later in life that the midlife crisis and I really
• 53:18
  think that getting to getting to know your core values and
• 53:23
  starting to act in a way that aligns with them is Is pretty
• 53:29
  much the only way out or feeling like you and filled.
• 53:32
  You can. Yeah, try and Chase the success
• 53:37
  or the well, sort of fame or all those superficial things.
• 53:42
  And it might work for a while. But I think eventually everyone
• 53:46
  who's chasing that wall or realize that they're still not
• 53:48
  fulfilled. And then yeah.
• 53:51
  Wherever you are in life. I would definitely recommend you
• 53:55
  really reflect on what you value, not What Society values,
• 53:59
  not what you've been told you should value, not what your
• 54:01
  parents value. But what you really value and
• 54:06
  then start making at first, you might need to be making some
• 54:09
  very small changes because big changes are scary and take time,
• 54:13
  but you can start making very small changes straight away and
• 54:18
  then you can kind of work up to bigger changes if you still feel
• 54:21
  like you need to do that if you're if you're like very far
• 54:24
  away from certain values. Yeah I totally agree with you.
• 54:29
  I thought a lot about this over the last couple of years as I've
• 54:31
  been moving into this, Period in my life.
• 54:36
  Because one thing I've neglected to mention earlier about myself
• 54:39
  is that when I was having those quarter life crisis moments, the
• 54:44
  final one was me realizing. Okay, I need to pursue this
• 54:49
  creative stuff and this is what I have to do in order to be
• 54:52
  happy, which is interesting when you come to, you know, because
• 54:58
  many everyone's different. Some people figure out what they
• 55:00
  want to do early in life and that's awesome.
• 55:03
  Some people Well, they have quarter life crisis every time,
• 55:07
  several times throughout their 20s and you know what?
• 55:09
  There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing I think it's
• 55:11
  good to try a lot of different things and I don't believe that
• 55:14
  you ever have like wasted time. I think the only time time is
• 55:18
  ever wasted Is actually. I guess.
• 55:24
  Yeah, if you spend too long on the wrong things, that you can
• 55:26
  view that as as wasting, but you have to look at who you are in
• 55:32
  the moment, you know, it's very easy to look back and below.
• 55:35
  I should have done this, I should have done that and is
• 55:37
  that well you just want that person yet you didn't, you know,
• 55:39
  like I know of myself, I didn't have the strength to make those
• 55:44
  decisions when I was younger, because I was a scared of
• 55:46
  everything. You know, scared that things
• 55:48
  wouldn't work out, you know? Sket, for instance, we spoke
• 55:52
  about working for you. If I was terrified at that idea,
• 55:54
  I thought lagoo, how would you ever find money and now there's
• 55:58
  like a million ways to do that and it's, I don't know.
• 56:02
  I think that As you said, like you have to have a clear
• 56:07
  understanding of what it is you're looking for.
• 56:10
  Like for me, I want to do all these creative things and I want
• 56:14
  that to be what I do for a living.
• 56:18
  You know, I don't want to do the nine-to-five anymore, I don't
• 56:20
  want to be beholding to companies because I am, I am
• 56:22
  freelance, but I'm still beholding to, to a certain
• 56:25
  extent like several days a week working on 25.
• 56:28
  Doing something that Is. Okay, I'm glad it pays.
• 56:32
  I'm glad this is not stuff. I had used to have to do and
• 56:35
  it's good to reassess that once in a while and look at where you
• 56:38
  were and where you are, but I'm still not where I want to be
• 56:40
  personally. But I'm taking those small steps
• 56:44
  to get there but I always keep in mind what you said that, you
• 56:50
  know, you cut. It can't just be all I want to
• 56:53
  make this amount of money or oh I want to be famous or whatever
• 56:56
  because that's tough Is is very soulless, you know, like sure
• 57:02
  you could make loads and loads of money, but that's
• 57:05
  never-ending how much is enough? Like, I mean, you know, I'm sure
• 57:11
  many rich people, they get to a certain point where they have
• 57:13
  everything they want and it's like, well, what now, you know.
• 57:16
  So you got to work towards projects build things, right?
• 57:21
  That's one of the things I love about this podcast.
• 57:22
  Is that like it's building upon episode upon episode upon
• 57:27
  episode, it's like, Don't know. It just keeps growing keeps
• 57:30
  going and to me that feels very fulfilling and away.
• 57:33
  And, you know, anyone that's listening, get something from it
• 57:36
  every time so that feels worthwhile.
• 57:41
  And when you talk about things like Fame, I mean we've heard
• 57:46
  that expression, 50 minutes of fame.
• 57:48
  I've seen that time and time again.
• 57:51
  It's really interesting to me it it, anyone who's actually
• 57:55
  listening to this if you ever get time, pay attention to Some
• 57:59
  of those celebrities that are, I guess like, said list, if you
• 58:02
  want to call it, that people that are at the very bottom of
• 58:04
  the totem pole, I'm not trying to say that it to be
• 58:07
  disparaging. I'm just saying, you know, there
• 58:09
  is like a hierarchy if you like people that are at the upper
• 58:12
  echelon and and a lot of that has to do with just like
• 58:15
  visibility I think and projects rather than it's not.
• 58:18
  I mean I personally could care less if someone's like a Lester
• 58:21
  or you know said list it doesn't matter to me.
• 58:26
  Like every human beings worth is the same like Equal, you know
• 58:31
  unfortunately not everyone sees it that way but that's my
• 58:34
  personal perception, you know. I just think it's good.
• 58:37
  If you have work and your work makes people happy great, you
• 58:41
  know, the and you're not hurting anyone live life.
• 58:44
  How you want to live it, right? But the ones that are at the
• 58:48
  bottom that I really try. Actually some of them are at the
• 58:52
  top, do it as well. Actually, it doesn't really
• 58:54
  matter. If you're at the bottom of the
• 58:55
  top, there are some people famous people that like have to
• 58:58
  be famous Yes. So, there are a lot of famous
• 59:00
  people that are like, you know, they just happen to be famous
• 59:03
  or, you know, they just keep being in the public
• 59:06
  Consciousness, you know, whatever.
• 59:09
  Some people that will perpetually be famous because
• 59:12
  they had a profound impact, like, other maybe will smear for
• 59:17
  Daniel Radcliffe because at one time, they were this character
• 59:21
  or this person and you know, they'll forever be known, right?
• 59:25
  Then you go low people that, you know, they come and they go, you
• 59:28
  know, you find yourself going like, or what did this person
• 59:31
  go? You know?
• 59:32
  And sometimes people move on, sometimes people just move out
• 59:35
  of the public eye and they, and they carry on their life and
• 59:37
  something else. But there are these certain
• 59:40
  people that, like, continuously go after it.
• 59:43
  They have to be, they have to be on every single panel.
• 59:46
  Sure. They have to be on every single
• 59:47
  possible show that's out. There have to be seen and I
• 59:54
  don't understand that. I would guess.
• 59:57
  Maybe it's they need attention I guess if you had to like make a
• 1:00:03
  really logic logical eyes but like a really basic observation
• 1:00:09
  like or maybe it's that that's what it seems like but I just
• 1:00:13
  think it's very thankless because especially these days
• 1:00:15
  because people's attention spans are so short these days like
• 1:00:20
  maybe 50 60 years ago, celebrities were like really
• 1:00:23
  amazing these days. I don't know.
• 1:00:26
  I mean, I think there are there are people that are genuinely
• 1:00:29
  revered and respected and loved and cherished and stuff, but
• 1:00:32
  like other people especially online content creators, it
• 1:00:36
  seems very thankless. It's like, okay, you're in the,
• 1:00:38
  the public Consciousness for a moment and then suddenly you're
• 1:00:41
  not relevant anymore. And then there's this term of
• 1:00:43
  relevance, which I just think, is a really, like harsh concept,
• 1:00:47
  like you're always relevant like what you mean, they're not
• 1:00:51
  relevant anymore. Like who decides that?
• 1:00:54
  Like I guess you. sail, the internet decides that people
• 1:00:57
  decide that, but I don't know, man, I guess it goes back to the
• 1:01:01
  point. I digress a little bit, it goes
• 1:01:03
  back to the point of what you value.
• 1:01:05
  Like for me, I don't really see money or fame as being
• 1:01:10
  particularly important. I think Financial Freedom is an
• 1:01:16
  excellent thing to have, but more because of what it allows
• 1:01:18
  you to do, rather than what it allows you to buy, you know, I
• 1:01:22
  think it's being able to, for example, travel the world have
• 1:01:25
  experiences create projects. You know, you spoke of all the
• 1:01:30
  volunteer work that you've done, you know, imagine being able to
• 1:01:33
  set up your own foundations and your own projects and see them
• 1:01:37
  yourself and see how they help people.
• 1:01:39
  I mean that's that's the stuff that's worth investing and I
• 1:01:42
  mean I don't know, this is just my personal opinion but yeah
• 1:01:48
  what you value is key in life, isn't it?
• 1:01:51
  It's anyway and I would say that normally the people who Are
• 1:01:59
  chasing money, who are chasing Fame, who are chasing relevancy,
• 1:02:04
  and all that stuff. I don't really think that anyone
• 1:02:08
  true core values are those things?
• 1:02:12
  It's just, if you don't know what you actually value, those
• 1:02:17
  are the kind of go to things because that's kind of, you
• 1:02:21
  know, what Society deems are successful is being wealthy or
• 1:02:25
  being famous and there's that perception.
• 1:02:29
  Power that comes with being wealthy or famous.
• 1:02:32
  And a lot of people are ya craving that because they don't
• 1:02:36
  know what they actually want. And most likely there's some
• 1:02:40
  kind of a, some kind of a need for acceptance or power or or
• 1:02:46
  something that they didn't really have maybe as a child or
• 1:02:50
  or whatever. Yeah, I guess you're not seen as
• 1:02:59
  As valuable or you're not you feel powerless or any of those
• 1:03:05
  kind of things. If you've had some trauma often
• 1:03:09
  that leads to people chasing things like well or power or
• 1:03:13
  fame. Yeah, because they're trying to
• 1:03:17
  prove to people that they are powerful and, you know, they are
• 1:03:22
  rich, and they are someone who's good enough and and all of those
• 1:03:25
  things. So that's like a really complex
• 1:03:27
  thing that that I Not completely qualified, you're not anything
• 1:03:31
  but definitely something I've noticed.
• 1:03:33
  And if you listen to The Diary of a CEO podcast, it's a very
• 1:03:39
  very repetitive theme the guest on.
• 1:03:42
  There are very successful often very well, be started their own
• 1:03:46
  businesses, a lot of the time, And the driving force that comes
• 1:03:50
  up again and again and again is because they didn't feel like
• 1:03:54
  they were good enough in some way.
• 1:03:56
  And they wanted to prove to people that they were and the
• 1:03:59
  way that our societies work is you prove that you're good
• 1:04:03
  enough by being accessible, by being Wealthy, by being
• 1:04:07
  famously. Yeah, that ties into that a lot.
• 1:04:10
  I've noticed this actually, there's people that I know who
• 1:04:13
  have become successful who then Kind of treated me a bit like
• 1:04:20
  nothing afterwards and I just find that fascinating like at
• 1:04:24
  first it kind of annoyed me. But then I thought, you know
• 1:04:26
  what? That's that's pretty telling,
• 1:04:29
  I'm glad I didn't work with this person because they've lost
• 1:04:33
  themselves in that and seemingly very quickly and that's kind of
• 1:04:37
  scary in a way Because I don't know, I'd see right through it.
• 1:04:43
  Like, I can care less if someone has like a Gucci bag or, you
• 1:04:48
  know, they're super famous, like gives a shit like really, but
• 1:04:54
  you still, you still go to the toilet, you still have a mother
• 1:04:58
  and a father, used to do mean, like you're still human like,
• 1:05:03
  Pay me if I'm used to be like and I've said this on the show
• 1:05:06
  before, but it used to be this thing that like you were respect
• 1:05:09
  that hundred years ago, you would have been respected
• 1:05:11
  because you've changed things in a profound way.
• 1:05:14
  I don't know, you've invented saying the change people's lives
• 1:05:16
  or something like that. These days you can be famous for
• 1:05:19
  anything, you know. And is it really is like one
• 1:05:24
  minute. You're everyone loves you next
• 1:05:27
  minute. No one cares.
• 1:05:28
  Which arguably is worse than me. I hated the apathy.
• 1:05:34
  Like, I get that a lot these days, you know, it's a putting
• 1:05:38
  stuff out there and does nothing, you know, like I
• 1:05:41
  recently made a post about potentially doing a show where I
• 1:05:48
  would like reflect because I'm close to two years of the
• 1:05:50
  podcast. I do great.
• 1:05:52
  I'll throw this out there and I tried to do this a year ago,
• 1:05:56
  didn't work. Then try to do it again.
• 1:05:58
  This year didn't work, I was like, oh, send in your questions
• 1:06:01
  and I'll answer anything about the podcast and the other that
• 1:06:04
  One person, go back to me and Chad her Wilma.
• 1:06:08
  What's going on? And no one else got back.
• 1:06:12
  And I really pushed it and I promoted it everywhere.
• 1:06:15
  And and then, you know, I kind of really I didn't take it too
• 1:06:18
  harshly because I was like, you know what?
• 1:06:19
  It's just From the few people that do support me, maybe they
• 1:06:24
  didn't see it, maybe they're busy, you know, whatever it's
• 1:06:28
  fine. But there's like, I don't know.
• 1:06:33
  I've got like, 1,000 people follow me on Instagram, not one
• 1:06:36
  of them saw that engage with that or whatever, because people
• 1:06:38
  don't care, people don't care. Unless they're connected with
• 1:06:42
  you on the major. Like if they're connected with
• 1:06:43
  you, you know, they'll always interact with you and that, that
• 1:06:46
  is amazing. That's for those few people that
• 1:06:49
  are engaged in what I do. It blows my mind every time and
• 1:06:53
  I make sure that everything I create is as good as it possibly
• 1:06:57
  can be for those people because I know that they're going to
• 1:06:59
  listen to this and they'll get something out of this and that's
• 1:07:02
  what matters. But yeah, there's a lot of just
• 1:07:07
  fakeness among people. And as you said as you said
• 1:07:10
  before like picked, I don't think you should ever do
• 1:07:13
  anything in life to try and prove to people that you're
• 1:07:16
  better than you are. Like you are good enough.
• 1:07:18
  As you are, you know, you said earlier like if you want to do
• 1:07:22
  something to better yourself to become better, you know.
• 1:07:26
  Great do it, you know, if it makes you happy and you're
• 1:07:29
  improving yourself, go for it, but don't do it because you're
• 1:07:32
  trying to prove something to someone else.
• 1:07:34
  That's all The run because then they're never going to give you
• 1:07:36
  the gratification you want. You could become super
• 1:07:38
  successful, have a full C 100 business and they'll still
• 1:07:43
  probably just bullshit you or be like, oh, you don't deserve it
• 1:07:46
  or whatever like you know, like you can't win.
• 1:07:50
  Excuse me. So you might as well do things
• 1:07:52
  for yourself and for your own happiness and people want to
• 1:07:57
  come along for the ride and support you in that.
• 1:07:59
  Excellent. If they don't, that's okay, you
• 1:08:01
  know, but it's as you said, It's gotta be about your own values.
• 1:08:04
  and, And believing in something and pushing that forward got
• 1:08:12
  final few questions for you. What's the best advice you've
• 1:08:17
  ever received? To be honest, I haven't had that
• 1:08:26
  much advice from from the people in my kind of real life.
• 1:08:32
  Recently, I've been thinking about the kind of mention of
• 1:08:36
  mentors and the importance of that and kind of developing a
• 1:08:40
  business, for example. And I'm always like, how do
• 1:08:43
  people find these mentors? I've never had had someone in my
• 1:08:48
  life, who was kind of old and wise, and wanted to help me.
• 1:08:53
  And a lot of the advice I got from my family was, was looking
• 1:08:58
  back. Very unhelpful, actually the
• 1:09:01
  messages I got. As a kid was killed to cover one
• 1:09:06
  of the family, like, all of my family on both sides were were
• 1:09:10
  not rich by any by any standard tool and struggled a lot in
• 1:09:13
  their life and didn't enjoy working.
• 1:09:15
  Today, I kind of advice a message to me throughout my
• 1:09:18
  childhood was, oh, wow, you're actually smart, you could get a
• 1:09:21
  well-paying job in, you could be rich and you could actually be
• 1:09:24
  happy, you know, and and it doesn't really matter if you
• 1:09:28
  like the job because nobody likes their job.
• 1:09:30
  But if you're earning good money, you know.
• 1:09:32
  You're one up on the rest of us and which I bought into for a
• 1:09:36
  long time until I got the university and realized no I'm
• 1:09:42
  getting out of it before I even start the the idea of yeah
• 1:09:47
  Finance industry or a well-paying stressful job.
• 1:09:49
  Just I already knew before I even experienced the working
• 1:09:53
  world that I wasn't going to provoke me.
• 1:09:57
  But in terms of good advice, I guess the advice to evaluate
• 1:10:06
  your values. That was a big thing in the
• 1:10:10
  first-ever personal development book.
• 1:10:12
  I read the subtle art of not giving a fuck by Mark Manson,
• 1:10:17
  recommend it to everyone all the time.
• 1:10:20
  There was a big focus on on giving a fuck about the right
• 1:10:24
  things and knowing your values. And, and that really sparked my,
• 1:10:28
  my journey I guess. One of the things you said there
• 1:10:31
  as well. I got a because I neglected to
• 1:10:35
  mention earlier you said about how you were looking around at
• 1:10:38
  University and star these. I'm nothing like these people I
• 1:10:41
  had the exact same thing. I was a particular lecture and I
• 1:10:45
  was dressed in the beginning of the year, I started dressing
• 1:10:48
  like this in a suit like everyone else and known as
• 1:10:50
  always. But I just like Tim's fun and
• 1:10:52
  then one day you know you get three months in and you know
• 1:10:56
  it's cold and you don't want to just want to be comfortable and
• 1:10:59
  I still see you. These people dressed in suits
• 1:11:01
  and I just looked around one day and I was like, I'm nothing like
• 1:11:05
  these people, like I don't want to do this and then going
• 1:11:08
  corporate for 35 years and wear the suits and big business and
• 1:11:13
  slight, it's just not me. I thought it was.
• 1:11:16
  I thought it might make me happy, but didn't And I have
• 1:11:22
  experienced a little bit of it and I just don't like you, I
• 1:11:26
  can't connect with it at all. And I saw people from that year,
• 1:11:32
  go into those fields and they became exactly what I thought
• 1:11:35
  they would become and they're still those people.
• 1:11:38
  And It's all very fake. It's all very You know, let's
• 1:11:44
  all meet up at a networking event and bullshit each other.
• 1:11:48
  Like if I do this data data data and it's like Caillou just be
• 1:11:52
  real, like just RIT like because there are don't get me wrong.
• 1:11:55
  There are a lot people in business that are real will give
• 1:11:57
  it to you straight and just say it how it is and those people
• 1:12:00
  are brilliant because they're not time-wasters you know like
• 1:12:02
  and I don't do that either. Like I'm just like I'll say it
• 1:12:05
  how it is and sometimes that comes across a bit blunt and
• 1:12:08
  people might not like it but it's like you know what, I'm not
• 1:12:10
  going to waste people's time. I'm not going to Put a pretty
• 1:12:14
  bow on something. I say it how it is and we can,
• 1:12:17
  we could do business together and we can get somewhere with
• 1:12:19
  this can work on this, you know, I don't understand where that
• 1:12:23
  mindset comes from and it's prevalent in all those different
• 1:12:27
  fields of business, accounting marketing, international
• 1:12:31
  business, whatever, like this, all the same and I know, maybe
• 1:12:36
  it's a Keeping Up, Appearances and staying this.
• 1:12:38
  Yeah, it does very much feel like are you River with us or
• 1:12:41
  against us kind of mindset and it's like And that's the thing
• 1:12:45
  as well. I'd say this as well, there is a
• 1:12:47
  point to this. When I got into those Industries
• 1:12:51
  there's nothing like that. You could do that.
• 1:12:53
  That's one option. But there's also 15 other
• 1:12:56
  options that were more preferable that they never
• 1:12:59
  taught us about uni. Like if I'd have known for
• 1:13:01
  instance that I could do like copywriting SEO, be a freelance
• 1:13:08
  writer from home. Like right now I do freelance
• 1:13:11
  sales recruitment excetera. That's my biggest client and
• 1:13:16
  they never told me I could do that at Uni.
• 1:13:18
  They never said. That was a possibility, I found
• 1:13:20
  that myself. And why did they don't tell me
• 1:13:24
  at University because they're trying to sell you a product and
• 1:13:26
  an idea, they want you to go in that direction.
• 1:13:28
  You know, they want you to do their masters and then, you
• 1:13:31
  know, maybe do the doctor area. Get as much.
• 1:13:33
  So they came for me and if they can't, all right, cool work for
• 1:13:36
  these companies that were affiliated with us, you know, so
• 1:13:39
  connected. It's, it's not all doom and
• 1:13:43
  gloom guys, but I'm just, if you are listening and you're
• 1:13:45
  unaware, especially if you're thinking about going to
• 1:13:47
  University, Think it through, do your research.
• 1:13:50
  It's not the only way. Just so finally I would say I
• 1:13:56
  would say it's not the only way and I wish that I kind of had my
• 1:14:01
  eyes opened a little bit more to other routes, and especially now
• 1:14:06
  especially now there's apprenticeships and direct
• 1:14:12
  schemes into a lot of, you know, big Financial companies, even
• 1:14:17
  you can leave you Leave your elbows and go straight to an
• 1:14:20
  internship and yeah there's definitely other option and if
• 1:14:24
  University is the thing for you and you decide that's what you
• 1:14:26
  want to do. Great.
• 1:14:28
  But yeah, I definitely would recommend to go to go in a
• 1:14:33
  direction where you're informed about what it's going to be and
• 1:14:36
  what the benefits are going to be and all of that stuff for
• 1:14:38
  sure. 100%. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:14:42
  you've ever learned? I think it's one that I'm kind
• 1:14:55
  of currently learning again. The kind of idea that you you
• 1:15:00
  can't run from your problems. And that, that you need to just,
• 1:15:06
  you need to face them eventually and better sooner than later, if
• 1:15:11
  at all possible. I think the experience of me
• 1:15:16
  being away from home for so long for those two years traveling
• 1:15:20
  recently, you know, I thought I left in a good place, you know,
• 1:15:25
  I had an amazing kind of Summer and then tiny bit of winter
• 1:15:31
  before before leaving my job and going to cover.
• 1:15:35
  But I've broken up with my with my ex and I've been, I've been
• 1:15:39
  in that really, really toxic and eventually abusive relationship
• 1:15:42
  for far too long and had a great, great stomach.
• 1:15:46
  Still, my friends all the time had loads of fun stated for fun.
• 1:15:49
  A little bit, I felt like I was in a really good place and then
• 1:15:55
  I left the door went traveling, and I was yeah, feeling like
• 1:15:58
  Curious and excited and all of these things and then, I came
• 1:16:04
  back when I came back home to my family about 18 months later
• 1:16:10
  after I left, and the pandemic had happened, and lots of
• 1:16:13
  happened. And I came back and realized,
• 1:16:18
  oh, the these problems with my family, mostly I still there,
• 1:16:25
  you know, it's been 18 months and okay, I haven't had to think
• 1:16:29
  about these family problems for a good while because I haven't
• 1:16:33
  been My family. But when I came back all that
• 1:16:38
  stuff was there and and it really made me realize that
• 1:16:42
  maybe I had been running away from some things that I didn't
• 1:16:44
  actually realize I was still running from.
• 1:16:48
  And and that they need to be faced and it's not always
• 1:16:52
  possible to face things straight away, especially of things or
• 1:16:55
  traumatic. And I'm currently going through
• 1:16:58
  therapy at the moment and there's been a big emphasis on,
• 1:17:03
  you know, some of these things have been in the deep freezer
• 1:17:06
  for a long time. And they've been there because
• 1:17:10
  you've been trying to protect yourself, you know, you weren't
• 1:17:12
  ready to paste it but but as soon as you feel ready, you
• 1:17:16
  really, really sure. Should face those things because
• 1:17:20
  they don't go away on their own. And and yeah, problems just kind
• 1:17:25
  of grow bigger and scarier the longer you leave them weaker and
• 1:17:30
  and you don't need to face them alone.
• 1:17:32
  You can get support to pasting if things are big and scary and
• 1:17:37
  you don't know how to face them. For example, like the stuff that
• 1:17:41
  I'm dealing with, I had tried on my own many times, journaling
• 1:17:45
  things out and reflecting on things and And, you know,
• 1:17:48
  writing letters to people and not sending them all those kind
• 1:17:51
  of recommended things, but but in the end, in the end,
• 1:17:56
  sometimes you just need someone else to help me.
• 1:17:59
  Very eloquently put thank you. As we draw things to a close.
• 1:18:03
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts you'd
• 1:18:06
  like to share with our listeners?
• 1:18:09
  Yeah, so like I briefly mentioned, I have created their
• 1:18:13
  six-week program crisis to curiosity, which has a big focus
• 1:18:18
  on figuring out your values, creating a Life vision based on
• 1:18:22
  those values, which is not as scary as figuring out your life
• 1:18:25
  purpose. But just figuring out ways that
• 1:18:28
  you can live by your values and making kind of small changes.
• 1:18:32
  And yeah I've got a couple of people trying it out the moment
• 1:18:36
  so I'm going to be getting feedback from them and As much
• 1:18:39
  as I can. And if anyone is interested, I
• 1:18:43
  would, I would love to hear from you.
• 1:18:45
  I also have an Instagram, which has been a tiny bit quite
• 1:18:48
  recently, but I'm looking to really focus on again now, which
• 1:18:53
  has a lot of posts all to do with what life crisis and stuff
• 1:18:57
  like that. And I know my website, I've got
• 1:18:59
  a bunch of free resources as well to help you out on that
• 1:19:03
  initial kind of reflection of your especially if you're just
• 1:19:08
  feeling like Is this it if you're worried like oh God, 40
• 1:19:13
  years of this. And then I get to retire and I'm
• 1:19:16
  going to be too old to do anything if you're in that kind
• 1:19:19
  of a space, then. Yeah, figure things out.
• 1:19:23
  Think about what you want and who you are and and don't be,
• 1:19:27
  don't be afraid to be curious and to try things and to fail
• 1:19:31
  and yeah, there's no shame in not knowing what you want to do,
• 1:19:35
  there's no shame in not knowing who you are, or what you want or
• 1:19:38
  any of these things. Everyone has to figure them out.
• 1:19:41
  Some people figure them out in childhood and they're really
• 1:19:43
  lucky and they what they want to do, and they have that easy ride
• 1:19:48
  into adulthood with her when they're sure.
• 1:19:50
  They know what they're doing. But even if you see people that
• 1:19:53
  look like that, they might not really be that.
• 1:19:56
  They might also underneath be the wondering what's going on.
• 1:20:01
  So, definitely don't compare yourself to anyone else.
• 1:20:04
  You seems like they know what they're doing because nobody
• 1:20:07
  knows what they're doing. I mean, Age.
• 1:20:09
  So they love the truth. Well thank you very much for
• 1:20:14
  being on the show. Katie has been an absolute
• 1:20:16
  pleasure and yeah, wish you all the best.
• 1:20:19
  Yeah, thanks for having me out. I had a really nice chat
• 1:20:22
  accident and to all the listeners of the Christian read
• 1:20:26
  podcast, as always be safe. Be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:20:30
  next one.