Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags With Joseph Scott Morgan: SHOCKING ARREST! Dad Charged With Kidnap, Rape, Murder, of DAUGHTER

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Body Bags With Joseph Scott Morgan: SHOCKING ARREST! Dad Charged With Kidnap, Rape, Murder, of DAUGHTER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Body dines with Joseph s gotten More. I've seen a
0:07
Speaker 1: lot of inner city poverty over the course of my
0:11
Speaker 1: years working as a death investigator.
0:14
Speaker 2: It's part and parcel of what you.
0:16
Speaker 1: Do, and you have to understand that it's many people's reality.
0:23
Speaker 1: People say that they know what it's like to be poor,
0:29
Speaker 1: but there's being poor and then there's impoverished, kind of
0:35
Speaker 1: a hopelessness set to as I'm speaking to you right now,
0:42
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photograph. It's a photograph of a home,
0:48
Speaker 1: an abandoned home in a rough neighborhood in Toledo, Ohio,
0:56
Speaker 1: and there is scribbling on the wall, graffiti, if you will,
1:02
Speaker 1: and around the home there are also balloons that have
1:06
Speaker 1: been placed there to form a small memorial for a
1:10
Speaker 1: young lady that is no longer with us. And just
1:14
Speaker 1: let me tell you what the graffiti says. It says,
1:20
Speaker 1: you let them silence her c SB, where's your accountability?
1:30
Speaker 1: Her life matter? I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
1:39
Speaker 1: Body Backs, Dave. There's just some of these cases that
1:44
Speaker 1: really tug at our heartstrings, and this is one of them.
1:50
Speaker 1: There are varying degrees of horror with this case. It's
1:54
Speaker 1: you know the old adage about going down the rabbit hole,
1:57
Speaker 1: It's like the deeper you go down the rabbit hole,
2:01
Speaker 1: it's a descend into hades almost with what happened to
2:07
Speaker 1: this young girl. And I'm talking about a young lady.
2:10
Speaker 1: She's thirteen years old, she's a child. Her name was
2:15
Speaker 1: Kamanie Letigue, and she's from the Toledo, Ohio area. And
2:22
Speaker 1: to say that she had had had it rough growing
2:25
Speaker 1: up is certainly an understatement. We cover cases like this regularly,
2:30
Speaker 1: but I think that it's very important that every time
2:33
Speaker 1: one of these cases comes up, we need to talk
2:35
Speaker 1: about it because this is the real stuff that's out there.
2:39
Speaker 1: This is what not just adults. This is what children
2:42
Speaker 1: are going through right now. And boy did she She
2:46
Speaker 1: wound up pain a bill that she did not owe
2:50
Speaker 1: to anybody, and it is pure hell.
2:54
Speaker 2: Kimani Lettigue you mentioned, is thirteen years old and is missing.
2:58
Speaker 2: That's when her story begins. In terms of the media,
3:02
Speaker 2: and whenever you have a child missing, the first thing
3:06
Speaker 2: you do is you nowadays you look at the home,
3:08
Speaker 2: who was in the home, who lived there, who did
3:10
Speaker 2: she live with? Now? And Kamanie Leatigue, her life situation.
3:14
Speaker 2: She lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and Dorothy was her
3:19
Speaker 2: Kamani's primary caregiver. And yet her mother, Kamanie's mother and
3:25
Speaker 2: father biological father were both involved in her life. But
3:28
Speaker 2: to what degree, We're not entirely sure, because you never
3:32
Speaker 2: know who to believe in any circumstances. But Kamanie Letigue
3:37
Speaker 2: at thirteen lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and her grandmother
3:41
Speaker 2: worked overnight. Her grandmother went to work ten o'clock at night,
3:45
Speaker 2: got home at six in the morning. And that's kind
3:49
Speaker 2: of We've got a couple of different stories like this, okay,
3:53
Speaker 2: that where a girl goes missing or a young person
3:55
Speaker 2: goes missing. And I'm going to be honest with you,
3:57
Speaker 2: at thirteen, a child is a child and not old
4:00
Speaker 2: enough to be left atlone overnight. You don't leave a
4:03
Speaker 2: child alone overnight until they're old enough to drive. And
4:08
Speaker 2: that's just and by the way, it's just a Dave macrule.
4:11
Speaker 2: And I agree with you. I agree, And I just
4:14
Speaker 2: have a real problem with this. I know others spiel differently,
4:16
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying that's how I think. But in
4:19
Speaker 2: her case, and I know I always hear whenever I
4:22
Speaker 2: say something like that you don't understand the circumstances. Yeah,
4:25
Speaker 2: I do. I do understand the circumstances, and I will
4:28
Speaker 2: tell you can make good choices whether you're rich or poor,
4:35
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Good choices don't have a price tag.
4:39
Speaker 2: If you're going to be held accountable and responsible for
4:41
Speaker 2: a child, then and you've accepted that responsibility, you owe
4:45
Speaker 2: it to the child to make sure that you're taking
4:48
Speaker 2: care of them. And there are no excuses that I'll
4:51
Speaker 2: buy just just a personal thing.
4:53
Speaker 1: But I agree with you and personal. You know, the
4:56
Speaker 1: thing about it is these choices. There's you know, it
5:02
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're Richard Poy you you know you
5:06
Speaker 1: you plugged in economics to this and I'm thinking, well,
5:10
Speaker 1: that investment in making good choices you reap dividends in
5:14
Speaker 1: the end. And this is where, in my opinion, everyone
5:20
Speaker 1: failed as child all up and down the line. You know,
5:25
Speaker 1: from what I have gathered given her background, there been
5:32
Speaker 1: there were multiple reports of potential child abuse involving Kamani.
5:38
Speaker 1: She allegedly had marks on her body that were viewed UH.
5:44
Speaker 1: There were teachers that had alerted the workers at child
5:52
Speaker 1: Welfare services and by the way, that comment about CBS
5:58
Speaker 1: that that was scribbled on the wall outside of this home,
6:01
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a bit. That's that's actually
6:06
Speaker 1: the acronym for the local child Welfare services.
6:12
Speaker 2: But look Joe from the very beginning, the story begins
6:15
Speaker 2: with her going missing, and whatever happens after that is
6:22
Speaker 2: what This is one of the stories where it's we're
6:25
Speaker 2: covering it because it needs to be covered. People need
6:30
Speaker 2: to know this happens. But this is a new low.
6:33
Speaker 2: Every time I think we have mined the bottom of
6:34
Speaker 2: the pit, we end up with another shovelful. And here
6:37
Speaker 2: it is. Kamanie Letty goes missing and her grandmother, Dorothy
6:42
Speaker 2: comes home from work and she is just the two
6:45
Speaker 2: of them that live in the house. They do have
6:48
Speaker 2: a dog, but just Kamani thirteen Dorothy grandma Kimmani's grandmother
6:54
Speaker 2: sees her the night of March sixteenth when she's leaving
6:58
Speaker 2: to go to work that night. When her grandmother comes
7:00
Speaker 2: home from work that morning of March seventeenth, Kimani is gone.
7:05
Speaker 2: So her grandmother immediately starts calling around and notifies police
7:11
Speaker 2: because when she comes home the door is unlocked. That's
7:15
Speaker 2: not a normal thing. The house was in disarray, not
7:18
Speaker 2: a normal thing. The stove was on and she could
7:23
Speaker 2: smell gas, not something that would normally happen. Kimanie's keys
7:28
Speaker 2: and glasses were still at the house. But the girl
7:31
Speaker 2: can't see without her glasses, Joe, So Dorothy knows this
7:36
Speaker 2: is something really bad. Dorothy even had this comment about
7:41
Speaker 2: the gas being left on. She said, other than her
7:43
Speaker 2: and I, it's just two dogs in the house. So
7:46
Speaker 2: who cut it on talking about the gas? So that
7:49
Speaker 2: was kind of suspicious. Her glasses in her underclothes were
7:52
Speaker 2: by the couch in the front. Her pajamas were on
7:55
Speaker 2: the dining room floor. Now, pay attention to what she's
7:57
Speaker 2: saying there. Her glasses in her underclothes were by the
8:03
Speaker 2: couch in the front, her pajamas were on the dining
8:07
Speaker 2: room floor. Yeah, what does that tell you about what
8:10
Speaker 2: she was wearing, Joe.
8:12
Speaker 1: Well, obviously prepped for bed. If we're talking about pj's.
8:18
Speaker 1: The fact that you've got a young a young teen
8:25
Speaker 1: like this is highly unusual. You know, you can't envision them,
8:30
Speaker 1: you know, bouncing about the house nude. Not that you
8:34
Speaker 1: would want to, but the fact that she's apparently naked
8:39
Speaker 1: and wandering about the house is disturbing, she's already gotten
8:43
Speaker 1: ready for bed. I would think that, you know, as
8:46
Speaker 1: an investigator, you would ask the question, well, did she
8:50
Speaker 1: Is it normal in your household for this thirteen year
8:54
Speaker 1: old girl to disrobe in the living room where perhaps
8:58
Speaker 1: they could be seen by a pass or by anybody,
9:01
Speaker 1: could you know, perhaps walk in. Is that something that
9:04
Speaker 1: is normal? Then you would want to look and as
9:08
Speaker 1: troubling as this might be, you would look at the
9:11
Speaker 1: clothing to see, well, maybe she had an accident, Maybe
9:16
Speaker 1: you know, she wet herself, maybe she had, you know,
9:22
Speaker 1: some type of intestinal problem, or maybe she's injured in
9:27
Speaker 1: some way. Is there any any remnant of blood on
9:32
Speaker 1: the clothing, you know, the underwear, the pjs, because you're
9:37
Speaker 1: talking about two separate locations. You're talking about the pj's
9:42
Speaker 1: being in the adjacent area, and then you're talking about
9:48
Speaker 1: the underwear near the sofa, and with the sofa, one
9:54
Speaker 1: of the things you're thinking about if this child is
9:57
Speaker 1: absent her underwear, are we thinking about a sex attack
10:01
Speaker 1: here at this point in time where the perpetrator, assuming
10:05
Speaker 1: that this is a male, had made her disrobe or
10:12
Speaker 1: had ripped her clothing off and then assaulted her there
10:16
Speaker 1: on the sofa in the living room. There are a
10:18
Speaker 1: lot of people that sleep on their sofas. Okay, there
10:21
Speaker 1: are a lot of people that do a lot of
10:22
Speaker 1: other things on their sofas as well. But you know,
10:25
Speaker 1: this scene in and of itself would have been perfect
10:29
Speaker 1: to go in and examine for trace evidence on that sofa.
10:34
Speaker 1: Try to understand first off, if there's any biological substances,
10:39
Speaker 1: and one of the things I'm thinking about are two
10:40
Speaker 1: of the things I'm thinking about are obviously blood and
10:43
Speaker 1: any kind of seminal deposition. We've got two females living
10:49
Speaker 1: in this home, and according to the grandmother, they are
10:53
Speaker 1: seeing the occupants of this home. You would not expect
10:56
Speaker 1: to find say, remnant of smen, you know, on the sofa.
11:02
Speaker 1: If it is, I've got a lot of If it
11:04
Speaker 1: is there, I've got a lot of questions. Was the
11:07
Speaker 1: grandmother involved with anybody? We wouldn't think that a thirteen
11:11
Speaker 1: year old would be involved. I'd want to know again
11:16
Speaker 1: examining the underwear, was there any kind of deposition within
11:21
Speaker 1: the underwear relative to this as well? So this would
11:24
Speaker 1: have to be handled very very carefully. Also within the house,
11:28
Speaker 1: I know that you had mentioned Dave that the door
11:32
Speaker 1: was open, but we don't really know if there was
11:36
Speaker 1: a sign of a forced entry here, do we no?
11:38
Speaker 2: And that's here's the interesting well, no, not just the
11:41
Speaker 2: interesting part. There's a lot here, a lot to unpack,
11:44
Speaker 2: as you say, or as Nancy says. The uh. And
11:48
Speaker 2: by the way, the reason we mentioned Nancy, it's Nancy Grace.
11:51
Speaker 2: That's who we're talking about. That's how Joe and I
11:52
Speaker 2: got to know one another by being on her show,
11:55
Speaker 2: and I work on her show on a daily basis
11:58
Speaker 2: as they do body bags. I'm very proud of the
12:00
Speaker 2: work we do because I think we're making a difference
12:02
Speaker 2: at how people consider watching after children in particular, which
12:06
Speaker 2: is why every time we do a story about a child,
12:08
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old that goes missing, I feel like
12:12
Speaker 2: I'm more aware of the children in my neighborhood. I'm
12:15
Speaker 2: more aware of their schedules. Now. I am more than
12:18
Speaker 2: I was a few years ago when my children were
12:20
Speaker 2: of that age, because now I know what's normal in
12:23
Speaker 2: my neighborhood, what takes you know, and in this case,
12:27
Speaker 2: what we do know. We know that the door was
12:29
Speaker 2: it was unlocked. That is not a normal occurrence. They
12:33
Speaker 2: kept that door locked, so that's a start. Now we
12:36
Speaker 2: don't know if there was forced entry, but we do
12:38
Speaker 2: know a few other things. We know that the home
12:40
Speaker 2: was in disarray. This is also something that Dorothy said
12:44
Speaker 2: that was not common. And you can think about this.
12:46
Speaker 2: Dorothy is a you know, as a grandmother teaching her
12:49
Speaker 2: thirteen year old granddaughter how to act, how to behave,
12:52
Speaker 2: how to keep your house in order kind of thing.
12:54
Speaker 2: I can see that. You know that if it was
12:56
Speaker 2: in disarray, this would be an unexpected occurrence. And the
13:00
Speaker 2: gas being turned on the stove, there was a reason
13:03
Speaker 2: for that, and we don't know that reason. But what
13:07
Speaker 2: we do know is that when she goes missing, there's
13:11
Speaker 2: no sign of Kimani anywhere, and the media is there
13:16
Speaker 2: to cover it. And so Kimani's father, her biological father,
13:20
Speaker 2: is there to talk about her, and he goes on
13:22
Speaker 2: TV Joe and he is begging for somebody to share information.
13:26
Speaker 2: His name is Darnell Jones. He also goes by Darnell Ogletree.
13:31
Speaker 2: Darnell is thirty three years old and he is on
13:33
Speaker 2: local television in Toledo saying, please help find my daughter.
13:38
Speaker 2: But what we find out Joe, is that on that
13:41
Speaker 2: night of March sixteenth into March seventeenth, when Kimani was
13:46
Speaker 2: home on March sixteenth, her grandmother sar when she left
13:48
Speaker 2: for work. Well, Darnell Jones says he got a call
13:53
Speaker 2: from Kimani and she said she was scared being left
13:57
Speaker 2: home alone. Would he come over? And so now we
14:01
Speaker 2: know that Darnell Jones went to that house and took
14:06
Speaker 2: a friend and he says they stayed there until about
14:11
Speaker 2: twelve thirty. That's from her biological father, Darnell Jones.
14:19
Speaker 1: Let me, let's unpack it a little bit here. We
14:22
Speaker 1: are using that term again. One of the things that
14:27
Speaker 1: stands out to me relative to this door that we
14:30
Speaker 1: had mentioned, if it is not forced open. Many times
14:36
Speaker 1: when you see a home where maybe there's been to
14:41
Speaker 1: call it a home invasion is not necessarily accurate. But
14:46
Speaker 1: when you have a door that has not been knocked
14:49
Speaker 1: off the hinges or that the you know that it's
14:52
Speaker 1: been kicked in adjacent to the door knob, you're thinking, well,
14:58
Speaker 1: somebody had to open it from the inside or was
15:01
Speaker 1: it ever locked at all? To gain fourth century? Well,
15:04
Speaker 1: what do we think about that? If you and I,
15:08
Speaker 1: let's just say our kids show up at the house. Okay,
15:11
Speaker 1: our door is locked. You know. I can look out
15:14
Speaker 1: my front window. I see when Noah arrives at our house,
15:17
Speaker 1: and eagerly I hop up and go and lock the
15:20
Speaker 1: door and open it for him, you know, because I'm
15:23
Speaker 1: happy to see him, right And I don't there's no
15:25
Speaker 1: threat there. Okay, I'm not talking to him through the door.
15:29
Speaker 1: Can you please verify for me your id So one
15:34
Speaker 1: of the first things that that's why we always talk
15:37
Speaker 1: about fourth century and struggle. Now, I don't know that
15:41
Speaker 1: we can classify this, and I would beg you to
15:44
Speaker 1: please use that the term that the grandmother used one
15:48
Speaker 1: more time. What did you say about the interior of
15:50
Speaker 1: the house, that it was what it was?
15:52
Speaker 2: In disarray? Yeah, I meaning it was a mess.
15:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a mess. And here's a term that I
15:59
Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard in a while. The old
16:01
Speaker 1: guys used to use it. That trained me. They'd love
16:06
Speaker 1: to use the term rifling, and I'm not talking about ballistics.
16:09
Speaker 1: They would use the term like rifled through objects or
16:13
Speaker 1: personal belongings, or generally it applies to like paperwork, and
16:17
Speaker 1: you know, people are rifling through things. You know when
16:20
Speaker 1: you talk about in disarray, is it is it pose
16:25
Speaker 1: like a purposed disarray where maybe you're using the items
16:32
Speaker 1: in the house to threaten somebody with, maybe you're throwing things,
16:37
Speaker 1: or is it can you frame it like drawers being
16:40
Speaker 1: open and things tossed out because you're looking for valuables.
16:43
Speaker 1: You know, it's a completely different way of looking at it.
16:46
Speaker 1: You can get this. I love the term menacing and
16:51
Speaker 1: how easy would it be think about it when you
16:55
Speaker 1: are thirteen? How easy would it be for adult to
17:02
Speaker 1: have menaced you. Being a death investigator, I'm giving pause
17:24
Speaker 1: sometimes to think about where my physical body will wind up.
17:32
Speaker 1: And I'm not necessarily talking about at a funeral home
17:35
Speaker 1: or in a graveyard. You have these moments in time
17:39
Speaker 1: where you think, well, might I die in my bed?
17:44
Speaker 1: Might I be behind the wheel? Might not be at
17:47
Speaker 1: my desk and suddenly struck by a heart attack or
17:52
Speaker 1: a stroke. I can tell you what's not on my
17:57
Speaker 1: bingo card. It's not a burned out house, abandoned, burned
18:06
Speaker 1: out house with windows boarded up, the vinyl siding on
18:12
Speaker 1: it curled because of the intense heat that ravaged the place.
18:18
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm thinking and I can tell you this.
18:22
Speaker 1: When Camani was born thirteen years ago, nobody was thinking
18:29
Speaker 1: about that. I can guarantee you. But Dave got to
18:32
Speaker 1: tell you, brother, that's where this angel wound up.
18:37
Speaker 2: You know, when her dad went on TV and said
18:43
Speaker 2: I was here, she called she was worried that some
18:45
Speaker 2: man was trying to break in, or somebody was trying
18:47
Speaker 2: to break in. You know as well as I do.
18:49
Speaker 2: When the police heard that ding ding ding radars went up.
18:54
Speaker 2: He's now put himself in that house during the time
18:58
Speaker 2: we know she was taken, because we know Grandma was
19:02
Speaker 2: there at ten on the night of the sixteenth. When
19:06
Speaker 2: she came home early morning of the seventeenth, Kamani was gone.
19:10
Speaker 2: And now we have dad on local TV saying, yeah,
19:12
Speaker 2: I was there till about twelve thirty with a cousin
19:14
Speaker 2: of mine. We stayed there. Now, as a father, well yeah,
19:23
Speaker 2: I can't even identify with any situation with this, But
19:26
Speaker 2: as a man, would you ever leave a thirteen year
19:28
Speaker 2: old child afraid of being left alone? Would could you
19:32
Speaker 2: possibly leave at twelve thirty at night with your thirteen
19:35
Speaker 2: year old daughter saying she's scared? Hey, I don't know
19:38
Speaker 2: A real man would.
19:39
Speaker 1: There was no way under the sun that I would
19:43
Speaker 1: do that.
19:44
Speaker 2: So do you think the police bought that?
19:47
Speaker 1: No, of course they didn't, and it didn't. It just
19:50
Speaker 1: doesn't hold water, you know. If it's me and I
19:53
Speaker 1: can only speak to me, all right, right, If I've
19:56
Speaker 1: got a thirteen year old daughter, who is you know,
20:00
Speaker 1: sitting there shaking and she's afraid that a man, a
20:06
Speaker 1: man dave implying, a grown man exactly threatening her or
20:11
Speaker 1: after her, do you think I'm going to pedal myself
20:15
Speaker 1: out of that driveway and leave and not take her
20:19
Speaker 1: with me, or at least, hey, baby, you go get
20:22
Speaker 1: in your bed. I'm going to sit here on the
20:24
Speaker 1: sofa and if you need anything, you just come back
20:27
Speaker 1: in here. But I'm going to stay here until your
20:30
Speaker 1: grandma gets back.
20:32
Speaker 2: You know what else?
20:33
Speaker 1: What else does he have to do? At twelve thirty,
20:35
Speaker 1: we've already established haying at work. We do know that
20:40
Speaker 1: per his girlfriend that he had muddy work boots. But
20:45
Speaker 1: do you know what she says? She says, this is
20:48
Speaker 1: a statement that she gave later, kind of bearing the
20:50
Speaker 1: lead here, but she's she's like it worked, and I
20:53
Speaker 1: don't know how long, you know, So it's not like
20:57
Speaker 1: his dance card is full for the next morning. All right,
21:02
Speaker 1: So you're telling me the universal you not you, Dave Mac.
21:07
Speaker 1: You're telling me that your boy just rolls out of
21:11
Speaker 1: there with a frightened thirteen year old daughter. And grandma
21:17
Speaker 1: is still what if she's working, if she's working mids
21:21
Speaker 1: she's going in at ten, yeah, until she ain't getting
21:25
Speaker 1: off until six or seven, and then she's got to
21:27
Speaker 1: commute back home. That's what you're trying to tell me, dude.
21:31
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. I am just not buying it.
21:33
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that you know immediately when
21:36
Speaker 2: when Grandma gets home on the seventeenth, they immediately begin
21:39
Speaker 2: looking for Kimani. They're looking all over the neighborhood because again,
21:43
Speaker 2: you're going to you're not going to jump to every
21:46
Speaker 2: conclusion in the world. You're going to try to make
21:48
Speaker 2: sense of this somehow. And they spent the entire day
21:52
Speaker 2: of the seventeenth going door to door, friends, neighbors, community members,
21:56
Speaker 2: did a search. They did a complete search of the
21:58
Speaker 2: area before actually reporting missing, and she was technically legally
22:02
Speaker 2: reported missing on the eighteenth.
22:04
Speaker 1: Heya time, was the dad involved in the search for her?
22:07
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he was. That's why he was on TV
22:09
Speaker 2: right away. Please, I was there. You know she was
22:13
Speaker 2: afraid of See he was already staging it when he's
22:16
Speaker 2: on TV, he's there saying I was with her till
22:19
Speaker 2: twelve thirty because she was afraid somebody was trying to
22:21
Speaker 2: break in. So immediately we're not bearing the lead by
22:23
Speaker 2: telling you that he's the guy we're looking at. But
22:26
Speaker 2: here's what actually happened, Joe. They found her body. They
22:29
Speaker 2: found her body in a horrible place, and you're going
22:32
Speaker 2: to have to describe what condition she was in when
22:38
Speaker 2: they found her, because I've looked at it and I'm
22:42
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how does one make sense of
22:46
Speaker 2: what happened to this missing thirteen year old Because between
22:49
Speaker 2: the time that we know she's missing at the time
22:51
Speaker 2: we find it, there's no you know, you're not getting
22:53
Speaker 2: a letter in the mail, you know, with a ransom
22:56
Speaker 2: saying I need twenty thousand dollars and you'll see her.
22:58
Speaker 2: We're not getting any of that. We're not getting picked
23:00
Speaker 2: is holding herround. I mean, she's missing until she's found,
23:02
Speaker 2: and when she has found, she's found dead. Now, how
23:06
Speaker 2: did they find her? What condition was her body? In
23:13
Speaker 2: it boggles the mind. And what we're just going to
23:15
Speaker 2: have to describe really.
23:16
Speaker 1: Had And let me give everybody a warning here because
23:19
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about and I know that sounds
23:21
Speaker 1: weird here on body bags, but I've got to tell
23:25
Speaker 1: you there's a term that judges use many times, and
23:29
Speaker 1: it's called this so shocks the conscience of the court.
23:33
Speaker 1: And this shocked me. You know when I heard about
23:37
Speaker 1: the nature of this case. I can't think of one
23:43
Speaker 1: right now, even though we've had a lot of over
23:46
Speaker 1: the top cases with a lot of forensics that you know,
23:53
Speaker 1: would make your blood chill. But you know that's that's
23:56
Speaker 1: one of the ways we make it through it as investigators,
23:59
Speaker 1: is that, uh, at least in my sense, is that
24:02
Speaker 1: I try to look at things scientifically. Dave, it's hard
24:04
Speaker 1: for me not to look at this as a dad,
24:07
Speaker 1: it really is. It's uh, it's it makes me sick
24:13
Speaker 1: to my back teeth.
24:14
Speaker 2: And and I do want to add one quick thought. Yeah,
24:18
Speaker 2: before they found her body, yes, the police had already
24:22
Speaker 2: identified that her biological father, Darnell Jones Jarnell Ogletree, that
24:29
Speaker 2: they wanted him for kidnapping. They had established that based
24:34
Speaker 2: on what he had said based on the what and
24:36
Speaker 2: what they had pulled together, and so they were going
24:38
Speaker 2: to they were trying to find him. Then he'd already
24:40
Speaker 2: been on local TV saying, help me find my daughter.
24:42
Speaker 2: And now he's our suspect. And they charged him with
24:46
Speaker 2: abducting her before they found the body.
24:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, they charged him, but with kidnapping. They didn't have him.
24:55
Speaker 1: And but what we do have is Kimanie and day
25:00
Speaker 1: when when she is found. As as aforementioned, Uh, this
25:07
Speaker 1: it's a two story give you kind of the rundown.
25:11
Speaker 1: It's a two story dwelling in in this particular neighborhood.
25:17
Speaker 1: It's gray in color. Uh, and it's got vinyl siding.
25:22
Speaker 1: And if you've never been to a fire scene, when
25:27
Speaker 1: vinyl siding is involved, what happens is is that it
25:33
Speaker 1: gets so hot, uh, the exterior heat, you know, the
25:37
Speaker 1: heat that's been given off from inside. It's like laying
25:40
Speaker 1: plastic on a you know, on like an oven surface.
25:44
Speaker 1: It curls and that's that's what the vinyl siding does
25:47
Speaker 1: in this particular case. So it kind of curls up
25:50
Speaker 1: and you see this, uh, just kind of a further
25:54
Speaker 1: paint this picture. You see this, it's smoke with the
26:02
Speaker 1: remnant of smoke and charring that has that you see
26:06
Speaker 1: at the top of these windows downstairs. Now these windows
26:10
Speaker 1: have been boarded up. They've been boarded up because his
26:12
Speaker 1: house is probably an iesore in the community. It's gone
26:18
Speaker 1: through a fire, the fire was knocked out. You see
26:21
Speaker 1: this kind of scoring and staining of smoke at the
26:25
Speaker 1: top of the window. And what's going on is it
26:27
Speaker 1: looks like this fire whenever it did happen, started on
26:32
Speaker 1: the bottom floor, because the top doesn't necessarily look as
26:35
Speaker 1: bad as the bottom. And so as fire licks out
26:38
Speaker 1: of a house, it's trying to get to the highest
26:41
Speaker 1: point so they can grab oxygen and consume it. All right,
26:45
Speaker 1: it's eating oxygen. And so many times when you go
26:48
Speaker 1: out the house fires, you'll see this. I can only
26:50
Speaker 1: imagine that when they made their way into this house
26:57
Speaker 1: and they got up on that second floor landing and
27:02
Speaker 1: they began to look around, I can almost guarantee you
27:06
Speaker 1: there was a foloader, there was a fouloader. And that's
27:12
Speaker 1: really hard to separate out because if you've ever been
27:15
Speaker 1: around a fire like a bonfire, or maybe you've had
27:18
Speaker 1: the unfortunate circumstances of having a house fire, that smell
27:23
Speaker 1: is rather pervasive. But the one thing that will trump
27:25
Speaker 1: that smell is decomposing bodies. You can get an idea
27:30
Speaker 1: and then when it's commingled and blended. I don't know
27:35
Speaker 1: how much they were able to actually appreciate at the scene,
27:40
Speaker 1: but when they found her little broken body, they discovered
27:48
Speaker 1: that she had almost been completely decapitated because she had
27:56
Speaker 1: multiple insized ones. I can go into that, but the
28:02
Speaker 1: one thing are the two things that we're missing are
28:10
Speaker 1: those elements of our anatomy that even when we're babies,
28:15
Speaker 1: we're exploring the world around us with You see, in
28:20
Speaker 1: the case of Kimani, someone had taken the time to
28:25
Speaker 1: not almost cut her head off, but they completely cut
28:31
Speaker 1: both of her hands off. The when they did their
28:50
Speaker 1: exam on Kimani, they determined that her cause of death, Dave,
28:57
Speaker 1: was going to be these injuries to her neck. Now,
29:00
Speaker 1: these are sharp force injuries, but they're not they're not
29:04
Speaker 1: stab ones. Okay, these are incized ones.
29:09
Speaker 2: And you're going to have to explain the difference, Joe, Yeah,
29:12
Speaker 2: featuring in my head.
29:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, the knife. If you just think of a knife,
29:16
Speaker 1: knives are inserted, that's a stab one. If a knife
29:21
Speaker 1: or sharp object, sharp instrument, sharp weapon, it's called sharp
29:25
Speaker 1: force injuries. If that blade is drug across a surface,
29:30
Speaker 1: that's an incised one. Okay, I'll give it to you
29:34
Speaker 1: in the most simple terms. If you've ever you know,
29:40
Speaker 1: like myself, the idiot at large here, was ever cutting up.
29:45
Speaker 1: I've done it many times on on onions because I
29:48
Speaker 1: get careless with them. I want to put as much
29:50
Speaker 1: distance between myself as possible in them as you're cutting them.
29:54
Speaker 1: I've cut my fingers multiple times. I've cut myself in
29:57
Speaker 1: the morgue dave through my glove and this happens a lot,
30:02
Speaker 1: generally with a scalpel blade, but they're always I've never
30:05
Speaker 1: stabbed myself. I've always cut myself. So these are in
30:09
Speaker 1: sized wounds. That means that the surface, the leading edge
30:12
Speaker 1: of that surface has been drug or pressed into the
30:17
Speaker 1: underlying tissue, and so it creates these very very neat
30:21
Speaker 1: what we refer to as neat margins. Because you're talking
30:24
Speaker 1: about a milled edged weapon that it's not going to
30:29
Speaker 1: be jagged, and a little primer here so that folks
30:32
Speaker 1: will understand. Many times we will get out onto the scenes,
30:36
Speaker 1: and we will see individuals that have been beaten to
30:39
Speaker 1: death and they have lacerations. People in the emergency room
30:45
Speaker 1: abbreviate that and they call them lax lac It's a laceration.
30:50
Speaker 1: Make no mistake. A laceration is not a cut. Laceration
30:55
Speaker 1: in the purest sense of the definition, comes about as
30:58
Speaker 1: a result of blunt forced and so you will get
31:01
Speaker 1: these weird looking, jagged injuries where the skin literally rips. Okay,
31:08
Speaker 1: you'll get injuries where, uh you know, I even think
31:14
Speaker 1: about like contact press contact gunshot wounds to the head
31:19
Speaker 1: where the skin expands, and you'll get that stellate presentation
31:23
Speaker 1: which looks like a star. That's actually a laceration because
31:26
Speaker 1: the gas is expanding the skin. That's not what Kamani had.
31:31
Speaker 1: Kimani actually had insized and apparently multiple insized ones. And
31:36
Speaker 1: they're not just it diminished, it diminishes the injuries that
31:42
Speaker 1: she's sustained to her neck. By saying that her head
31:48
Speaker 1: was almost cut off or she was almost decapitated, dave
31:52
Speaker 1: to go through what we refer to as full thickness.
31:55
Speaker 1: If you're talking about you have superficial injuries that happened
32:00
Speaker 1: with knives and knives in particular where you're talking about
32:04
Speaker 1: full thickness. Most of the time doctor's forensic pathologists when
32:08
Speaker 1: they use that term, that means that it will go
32:10
Speaker 1: through the full thickness of the skin, epidermis, the dermas,
32:14
Speaker 1: down through the subkey fat into the muscle. So that's
32:17
Speaker 1: like a full thickness injury. If they're saying that she
32:21
Speaker 1: was almost decapitated, that means that he had gotten down
32:26
Speaker 1: to the bony structures with the sharp instrument that he
32:28
Speaker 1: had used. And the first thing I'm thinking about is
32:32
Speaker 1: the cervical spinal column. That he couldn't go through it
32:36
Speaker 1: because probably all he had at his disposal was a knife.
32:40
Speaker 1: Now I don't know that for certain. There could have
32:43
Speaker 1: been other things, but one of the shocking things, one
32:51
Speaker 1: just one of the shocking things relative to Camani's case,
32:55
Speaker 1: is that both of her hands had been cut off. Now,
32:59
Speaker 1: I've had cases like this, and I was actually in
33:01
Speaker 1: a great presentation one time many years ago. This is
33:06
Speaker 1: you know, you file this under how stupid are criminals?
33:09
Speaker 1: A guy's body was actually found in a creek and
33:14
Speaker 1: he had been both decapitated. They never found his head
33:17
Speaker 1: and both of his hands had been cut off. The
33:21
Speaker 1: idea that investigators came up with, well, they did that
33:25
Speaker 1: in order to either delay or prevent the guy's identification,
33:30
Speaker 1: you know, because you don't have teeth at that point
33:32
Speaker 1: and you don't have hands to do prints with. The
33:36
Speaker 1: idiot that killed him and did this to him left
33:38
Speaker 1: the guy's wallet in his back pocket. Even though the
33:43
Speaker 1: case that was being presented, I'm listening to this, you know,
33:45
Speaker 1: my mouth is wide open. I'm listening to this. Even
33:48
Speaker 1: though you didn't have the head and you didn't have
33:50
Speaker 1: the hands, that were still able to get him identified.
33:52
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, well, in Camani's case, why would this
33:59
Speaker 1: say it not satanist? Satanist and I'm using that term
34:08
Speaker 1: because there's a sexual component here. Why would this individual
34:16
Speaker 1: cut the hands off? Are you doing that in order
34:22
Speaker 1: to inhibit or impede rather, I guess the authority's ability
34:30
Speaker 1: to get her identified through fingerprints? Well, does she have
34:34
Speaker 1: fingerprints on file? Do you know something about that? I mean,
34:37
Speaker 1: she has been a child that has gone through the system.
34:41
Speaker 1: Did Local Family Children's Services? Did they ever print her
34:46
Speaker 1: for anything? Are you thinking that? Do you think that
34:50
Speaker 1: you're going to thwart this investigation? By merely removing this
34:55
Speaker 1: thirteen year old's hands. Is that where we're at with this,
35:01
Speaker 1: because I don't understand the rationale behind it. Were you're
35:05
Speaker 1: going to try to piecemeal out the body and you
35:08
Speaker 1: were merely going to this abandoned house. And here's another thing,
35:12
Speaker 1: this house, Dave and the doors, well maybe not necessarily
35:16
Speaker 1: the doors, they've been boarded up as a result of
35:19
Speaker 1: this previous fire. You can see kind of that particle board,
35:23
Speaker 1: cheap particle board that you used to cover windows after fires,
35:26
Speaker 1: and they dropped screws in there, you know, to cover
35:29
Speaker 1: the windows to prevent anybody from because it's dangerous. I mean,
35:34
Speaker 1: burned out houses are one of the most dangerous environments
35:37
Speaker 1: you could be in. Well, you have to think whoever
35:41
Speaker 1: the perpetrator is had a familiarity with the area. They
35:46
Speaker 1: would have gone directly to that house. Maybe they had
35:48
Speaker 1: seen it in the daytime passing by. Did any you know,
35:53
Speaker 1: did anybody see somebody carrying this young girl's body into
35:59
Speaker 1: the house? And then how did you gain access to
36:02
Speaker 1: the house. And it's not just like this is done
36:06
Speaker 1: on the first floor. Once they made entry into the house,
36:10
Speaker 1: they went to the second, second floor to do this.
36:14
Speaker 1: So had they been hanging out in here before, did
36:18
Speaker 1: they know that the staircase was safe. It's one thing
36:21
Speaker 1: if you're going to try to walk yourself up a
36:24
Speaker 1: staircase in the dark in a burned out house, But
36:28
Speaker 1: now you're going to take the body of a thirteen
36:31
Speaker 1: year old and walk up the staircase with that body
36:35
Speaker 1: and then do whatever it is you're going to do
36:37
Speaker 1: with that body upstairs. I don't know. There's a lot
36:40
Speaker 1: of questions here from a forensics perspective, Dave that right now,
36:44
Speaker 1: we don't have the answers.
36:45
Speaker 2: To We don't know. And that's what I was going
36:47
Speaker 2: to ask you. Okay, they would obviously know. They being
36:52
Speaker 2: the investigators, when they're doing the autopsy, they're going to
36:55
Speaker 2: be able to determine that her hands were cut off
36:57
Speaker 2: after she was dead.
36:59
Speaker 1: They're going to yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, and so
37:02
Speaker 1: you're going to be looking for hemorrhage in there. If
37:04
Speaker 1: there's no hemorrhage, there's you know, then that's an indicative
37:09
Speaker 1: of a post mortem event.
37:10
Speaker 2: This is something they haven't described whether or not this
37:13
Speaker 2: is the location. Was she killed at this location or
37:16
Speaker 2: was she killed somewhere else? And brought there.
37:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And there's a lot to consider here as well.
37:24
Speaker 1: I find it very interesting. Can we go back just
37:27
Speaker 1: a second to her home. Yeah, and I'm thinking about
37:31
Speaker 1: the gas being on her.
37:32
Speaker 2: I am too, That's exactly I'm in the same boat,
37:35
Speaker 2: because my first thought was, Okay, wait a minute, we
37:38
Speaker 2: got a burned out house here where her body is
37:39
Speaker 2: found on the side or and I believe that whoever
37:43
Speaker 2: kidnapped her, whoever took Kamani outside of her grandmother's home,
37:47
Speaker 2: set that gas on to blow the place up to
37:49
Speaker 2: ruin any other evidence he left behind. And that's my job.
37:53
Speaker 1: Here's another thing I'm wondering. I'm wondering if there were
37:57
Speaker 1: if the individual had thought about that, had they lit
38:01
Speaker 1: candles in the house in another area, hoping that hoping,
38:06
Speaker 1: just hoping that as the gas kind of filled the
38:09
Speaker 1: environment that it would it would ignite off of candles
38:14
Speaker 1: burning in another area of the house. Now that that's
38:16
Speaker 1: a methodology that arsonists have used in the past, and
38:22
Speaker 1: it seems as though that there's this weird connective tissue
38:25
Speaker 1: with this case in the gas and back to the
38:30
Speaker 1: gas before I get to my brains get too scrambled here,
38:36
Speaker 1: I was thinking, when her body is examined with if
38:43
Speaker 1: it is a carbon monoxide asshixiation case, let's just say
38:46
Speaker 1: that she was around this gas that was seeping out
38:49
Speaker 1: into the house and it's displacing the oxygen. She takes
38:53
Speaker 1: on carbon monoxide just the opening of her body. We've
39:00
Speaker 1: kind of talked about how it carbon dioxide affects the hemoglobin.
39:06
Speaker 1: You'll see it automatically that soft tissues will have a
39:09
Speaker 1: cherry pink appearance to it. Even the blood will be
39:12
Speaker 1: cherry pink. And I'm wondering, was this like a half
39:16
Speaker 1: hearted attempt at that, you know, and it just kind of,
39:20
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of played out. It didn't work
39:22
Speaker 1: out like they thought that it was. It seems highly
39:25
Speaker 1: disorganized to me. I don't know that there was necessarily
39:31
Speaker 1: a plan going in, but Dave, I'm going to go
39:38
Speaker 1: ahead and mention this, and it just absolutely breaks my heart,
39:45
Speaker 1: as if this is not if the fact that what
39:49
Speaker 1: makes us all the more tragic. It is the fact
39:53
Speaker 1: that this child was raped. And as you, my friend,
39:57
Speaker 1: have famously stated, and I agree with you categorically, children
40:02
Speaker 1: don't have sex, children are assaulted and raped, period, And
40:08
Speaker 1: she was in fact raped. They have performed a rape
40:13
Speaker 1: kid on her, Dave, and you know it bore fruit
40:19
Speaker 1: relative to the fact that they knew that she had
40:21
Speaker 1: been sexually assaulted. You're talking about a very impassioned event,
40:27
Speaker 1: twisted and rotten to the core, but still being driven
40:35
Speaker 1: by passion by somebody that saw an opportunity for this
40:40
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl that had been left at home
40:44
Speaker 1: alone while her grandma was going out and making a
40:48
Speaker 1: living where her parents were not around. The mother had
40:55
Speaker 1: famously stated that, yeah, she would go with her file.
41:00
Speaker 1: I guess the grandmother gave permission. And you know you
41:04
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this off a or anytime
41:06
Speaker 1: you hear a comment like that, you know that the
41:09
Speaker 1: grandmother in this case would be the primary custodian that
41:12
Speaker 1: something has happened that has been identified that these two
41:16
Speaker 1: adults that brought her into this world were, for whatever reason,
41:21
Speaker 1: incapable of taking care of her on a day to
41:23
Speaker 1: day basis.
41:24
Speaker 2: Dave, and a couple of the things that we've got
41:26
Speaker 2: to get to very quickly, Joe, I've got to I'm
41:28
Speaker 2: very curious because you mentioned earlier that it was Darnell
41:32
Speaker 2: Jones slash Darnell Ogletree, same person, just different names, which anytimes,
41:36
Speaker 2: anytime a person who's thirty three years old has two
41:40
Speaker 2: names they go by. Yeah, immediately, I'm thinking, really, I
41:44
Speaker 2: don't know anybody other than professionals on in radio and television.
41:47
Speaker 2: You know people who changed their name for that. I
41:49
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know people on the street that
41:52
Speaker 2: use two different names to go by unless they're criminals.
41:54
Speaker 2: But I'm not saying that Darnell Jones slash Ogletree is
41:58
Speaker 2: a criminal. I'm just saying I don't know anybody that is.
42:00
Speaker 2: He has students, but his girlfriend was a key to
42:04
Speaker 2: this case. But let me ask you this, Joey. We
42:08
Speaker 2: know that the night of the sixteenth, Dorothy, the grandmother,
42:12
Speaker 2: leaves to go to work, and we know that Kimmani
42:16
Speaker 2: is at the house. We know that Darnell Jones went
42:19
Speaker 2: there that night, claims he was there till twelve thirty.
42:22
Speaker 2: We know that that morning when Dorothy got home on
42:24
Speaker 2: the morning of the seventeenth, that Camani was gone. Now,
42:28
Speaker 2: Kimmani's body is not found for six days. Her body
42:31
Speaker 2: is not found for six six days, and it was
42:36
Speaker 2: on I want to break down what the girlfriend says
42:39
Speaker 2: here now. Darnell Jones's girlfriend at the time helped police
42:42
Speaker 2: find the evidence in the murder case. She told investigators
42:46
Speaker 2: that Jones called her on Friday, March twenty first and
42:49
Speaker 2: asked her to turn the cameras off at their home. Suspicious,
42:53
Speaker 2: She left the cameras on. This is the twenty first.
42:56
Speaker 2: This is four days after Camani has been taken from
43:00
Speaker 2: the home and a couple of days before they find
43:04
Speaker 2: her body. So on the twenty first, he says, turn
43:07
Speaker 2: the cameras off, she leaves them on. The girlfriend says
43:10
Speaker 2: that she saw him move items from his suv into
43:13
Speaker 2: the house and hide them under the basement stairs. Girlfriend
43:17
Speaker 2: calls police, They get a search warrant, They come in
43:20
Speaker 2: and they take the evidence. The girlfriend told a reporter
43:23
Speaker 2: that he hid a mat like you have in the
43:25
Speaker 2: back of an suv, that rubber floor mat. She said
43:29
Speaker 2: that he put the rolled up floor mat and his
43:32
Speaker 2: work boots that were caked with mud. That's where mentioning you.
43:35
Speaker 2: You mentioned how you hadn't been working. He put these
43:38
Speaker 2: under the stairs in the basement, and she says that
43:44
Speaker 2: once Jones noticed. When Darnell Jones noticed that those items
43:48
Speaker 2: were gone, meaning she calls police. They came, they did
43:51
Speaker 2: the search warrant and got those items. When Jones came
43:54
Speaker 2: in and realized those items had been taken, he bolted.
43:58
Speaker 2: She never saw him again, so he takes off. He
44:01
Speaker 2: knows they got the evidence. That's gonna So now I'm
44:04
Speaker 2: going back to the girlfriend says that Jones calls her
44:09
Speaker 2: from Columbus, Ohio, and she told police where they could
44:12
Speaker 2: find him. Okay, but Joe, a couple of things here.
44:16
Speaker 2: He's got a roll that we know that she was
44:18
Speaker 2: found on the second floor of a burned out house
44:20
Speaker 2: in Tooledo. We know that he's hiding evidence from his
44:25
Speaker 2: SUV under the floorboard on the twenty first, four days
44:29
Speaker 2: after her kidnap.
44:30
Speaker 1: Yep.
44:30
Speaker 2: Did he have her somewhere Wow? And was raping and
44:34
Speaker 2: terrorizing her for days before he then killed her allegedly
44:38
Speaker 2: and put her body on the second floor of this
44:40
Speaker 2: burned out house. Is there a way to determine when
44:44
Speaker 2: she was killed?
44:45
Speaker 1: Yeah? There is hoping that the medical legal community did
44:49
Speaker 1: their due diligence at the scene because it would be
44:52
Speaker 1: a matter of being able to examine her body what
44:59
Speaker 1: we refer to as insight you, which means a fancy
45:03
Speaker 1: term for in place. So let's just think about this.
45:09
Speaker 1: If she has been down for we're going to get
45:14
Speaker 1: into a little entomology here. If she has been down
45:18
Speaker 1: for say six days, okay, in that location, then there
45:23
Speaker 1: would be a flies come to mind. There will be
45:27
Speaker 1: a fly cycle that goes through where you have adult
45:30
Speaker 1: flies that come in and lay eggs, and those eggs
45:36
Speaker 1: go through the various stages they go through. You develop
45:39
Speaker 1: the larva, the maggot, maggot sheds the husk, becomes an
45:44
Speaker 1: adult fly, and then that cycle kind of continues on.
45:48
Speaker 1: And one of the things we do at scenes is
45:50
Speaker 1: we collect this husk. We collect flies by the way
45:54
Speaker 1: as well, generally put them in little containers with alcohol
45:58
Speaker 1: in them. Just the entomology alone is going to give
46:06
Speaker 1: you an indication of was this six days or was
46:08
Speaker 1: this two days? You know, had he been riding around
46:12
Speaker 1: with her in a truck trying to decide what to
46:14
Speaker 1: do with her. We get back to the fact that
46:19
Speaker 1: there is a partial dismemberment here. And I always hold
46:25
Speaker 1: that if an individual is going to engage in that practice,
46:29
Speaker 1: you need a lot of privacy because it's the matter.
46:34
Speaker 1: It's a matter of first off, not knowing what you're
46:36
Speaker 1: doing anatomically, do you have the right tools or you
46:40
Speaker 1: using some kind of blunt tool that is not sufficient
46:44
Speaker 1: to the task. I go back to the idea of
46:48
Speaker 1: the hands, where those hands removed on the surface of
46:52
Speaker 1: that mat, and it was just kind of like, and
46:55
Speaker 1: this has happened before, Dave. We have people that will
46:59
Speaker 1: enter into the idea that they're going to dismember a body,
47:04
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they realize they stepped
47:06
Speaker 1: off the edge of the pool and they're in the
47:07
Speaker 1: deep end and not the shallow end, and it's it's
47:10
Speaker 1: too much of a too much of a burden to
47:16
Speaker 1: undertake because you don't have the correct skills in order
47:21
Speaker 1: to engage in this. You don't have the right tools,
47:25
Speaker 1: and you just suddenly, you know, maybe you get both
47:27
Speaker 1: the hands, that the hands would be the easy part,
47:30
Speaker 1: the hands in the head would be the two easiest
47:32
Speaker 1: parts to those elements of the body to be removed
47:37
Speaker 1: out of everything else. In my estimation, at least feet
47:42
Speaker 1: at the ankles are complicated. Okay, hands, hands and head
47:48
Speaker 1: are simple. You get through here, and it's you know,
47:54
Speaker 1: it's there's a term that lawyers use Nancy's going to
47:58
Speaker 1: jump on me for this because I'm you're not a lawyer.
48:01
Speaker 2: Just got.
48:04
Speaker 1: There. There are offenses that are labeled it's an incomplete offense.
48:08
Speaker 1: They call them in co haate offenses. This is like
48:12
Speaker 1: an in coo haate act, you know, where you set
48:15
Speaker 1: about to dismember a body and then suddenly you realize
48:20
Speaker 1: that it's just it's too much work. I can't do this.
48:22
Speaker 1: I have to find someplace to hide this body away.
48:26
Speaker 1: You bring up another interesting point. Dave, had he been
48:31
Speaker 1: holding her somewhere else torturing her, now, would would there
48:37
Speaker 1: be other evidences of that? Well, when we think about,
48:43
Speaker 1: you know, the different things of torture, you know, they're involved.
48:45
Speaker 1: I've had people that were branded that were tied up,
48:49
Speaker 1: cigarette butts put out, you know, crushed out on them,
48:53
Speaker 1: chemicals poured on them, and whatever kind of insult that
48:57
Speaker 1: you subject the living per too. At a cellular level,
49:02
Speaker 1: you can actually appreciate that the body begins to try
49:06
Speaker 1: to heal itself. Okay, some injuries begin to recede. You'll
49:11
Speaker 1: see the body almost trying to stitch itself back together,
49:15
Speaker 1: if you will, okay, for lack of a better term,
49:18
Speaker 1: is there evidence of that. Is there evidence that early
49:21
Speaker 1: on that she had been traumatized in some way in life,
49:24
Speaker 1: and that she had been kept alive and that these
49:27
Speaker 1: injuries were starting to subside. They're not as inflamed as
49:31
Speaker 1: say the initial insult. That's certainly something that the emmy
49:36
Speaker 1: would have to explore. And now I'm sure that they did,
49:39
Speaker 1: you know, because they're looking at these injuries. Now they're
49:41
Speaker 1: saying that the injuries on the neck, which is they
49:44
Speaker 1: famously said that this is a almost complete decapitation. They
49:49
Speaker 1: had hemorrhage in those areas, so that means that she
49:52
Speaker 1: was alive and had her throat cut. They also say
49:57
Speaker 1: that she has been sexually assaulted. Okay, now with that said,
50:06
Speaker 1: we begin to think about that this is who the
50:10
Speaker 1: police have identified. This is her daddy, it's her father,
50:18
Speaker 1: her biological parents. I don't it's it's hard to plumb
50:26
Speaker 1: the depths of this. And this does happen, it happens
50:32
Speaker 1: a lot. We don't know what kind of trauma she
50:36
Speaker 1: sustained during sexual assault. At this point. We don't know
50:42
Speaker 1: if this was an event that was again anti mortem,
50:48
Speaker 1: was it a post mortem event, And it's hard to
50:56
Speaker 1: make heads or tails of it. I do know this,
51:00
Speaker 1: and I would love for you to kind of lay
51:02
Speaker 1: this out for us. He apparently did not have the
51:08
Speaker 1: intestinal fortitude to personally deprive us of his presence, did
51:12
Speaker 1: he No?
51:14
Speaker 2: And I mentioned earlier that it was his girlfriend. Thank God,
51:18
Speaker 2: she has character. You know, she's only called police and
51:24
Speaker 2: said this is something's going on here. Come. You know,
51:28
Speaker 2: without her, we would not have a lot of information
51:31
Speaker 2: that we have. And by the way, the other part
51:33
Speaker 2: of this, you know, the reason we know about her
51:36
Speaker 2: hands being cut off, the rape, and the fact that
51:38
Speaker 2: her neck had been that her head was that she
51:41
Speaker 2: was nearly decapitated. You know, the Toledo Police chief is
51:44
Speaker 2: mad about that because it was a spokesperson for the
51:48
Speaker 2: Fraternal Order of Police that actually gave that information to
51:51
Speaker 2: the press and it didn't go through the Toledo Police chief.
51:57
Speaker 2: And he's not he's he's he's mad because he said,
52:01
Speaker 2: you don't say that out loud in public because you
52:04
Speaker 2: don't know what the family knows or where the investigation stands.
52:08
Speaker 2: So while that information is accurate, you don't give that out.
52:11
Speaker 2: I was shocked we had that information. We've never had
52:14
Speaker 2: this before.
52:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I've read. I don't know. I think
52:18
Speaker 1: I've read like eight articles on this case, and it
52:22
Speaker 1: mentions it in every single.
52:23
Speaker 2: Case because it's so shocking. And anyway, when the girlfriend
52:28
Speaker 2: they were looking for Darnelle Jones, Darnelle Ogildream, they were
52:32
Speaker 2: looking for him, they couldn't find him, and it was
52:35
Speaker 2: his girlfriend that found out where he was and she
52:37
Speaker 2: called police, so they knew where to go in Columbus,
52:40
Speaker 2: Ohio to go and get him. When they go there,
52:43
Speaker 2: they know he's armed. I'm going to assume, and that's
52:46
Speaker 2: a horrible thing, but they knew he was armed somehow.
52:48
Speaker 2: I'm going to assume that the girlfriend said you'd better
52:50
Speaker 2: watch out. He's armed, right, because he had communicated to
52:53
Speaker 2: with her what he had planned to do. And when
52:57
Speaker 2: the police arrived with SWAT. By the way, this is
53:00
Speaker 2: all in video. SWAT team arrives, it's a bodycam, right yeah,
53:04
Speaker 2: bodycam yeah yeah yeah, and uh swat bodycam and they
53:08
Speaker 2: actually they get him. He wants them to kill him,
53:12
Speaker 2: you know, kill me.
53:13
Speaker 1: Didn't he say that he actually makes that request?
53:17
Speaker 2: Kill me? Yeah, kill me? And they wouldn't. They shot
53:20
Speaker 2: him in the one place that they knew they could
53:22
Speaker 2: probably save him, you know, And that's what we know.
53:26
Speaker 2: We you know, this information has been really given to
53:30
Speaker 2: us in a very quick amount of time. Usually you
53:33
Speaker 2: have to wait for reports and things like that to,
53:36
Speaker 2: you know, before lawyers and everybody else for the cities involved,
53:39
Speaker 2: usually go through these things. We have to beg for
53:41
Speaker 2: them and file foyer request. Not this time, it's all
53:44
Speaker 2: been just And I'm thankful from our standpoint of getting
53:48
Speaker 2: the information, Joe, But I wouldn't be thankful if I
53:50
Speaker 2: was a family member and didn't know what happened. The
53:53
Speaker 2: other day, we were actually in the middle of a
53:55
Speaker 2: show and we had family members on the program that
53:59
Speaker 2: knew information that was not public and that the police
54:02
Speaker 2: had not given to us yet. And I heard them
54:05
Speaker 2: say things that I hadn't heard, and it was shocking,
54:10
Speaker 2: But they knew it. The family knew it right and
54:13
Speaker 2: and anyway, same thing, it's a hear in reverse. The
54:17
Speaker 2: family might not have known all the things that went
54:19
Speaker 2: into this when they released the information to the press.
54:22
Speaker 2: So bottom line, this girlfriend gave the evidence. She knew
54:27
Speaker 2: something was wrong when he said turn the cameras off.
54:30
Speaker 2: She's the one to call police, come and get it
54:32
Speaker 2: just right here, so they could get a search for
54:34
Speaker 2: it and know exactly what to look for. Then she
54:38
Speaker 2: calls and says, I got him. Here he is And
54:40
Speaker 2: they went and got him in because they knew his
54:42
Speaker 2: state of mind that he was wanting to die, they
54:44
Speaker 2: prepped accordingly and didn't kill him and took him into
54:47
Speaker 2: custody where he'll now be held accountable.
54:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, he will. And you know, we'll see what the
54:54
Speaker 1: prosecution does with this. We'll see what the courts, you know,
54:58
Speaker 1: what they allow. A lot of this data is already
55:02
Speaker 1: out there and I don't know. I mean, prayers for
55:07
Speaker 1: her family that remained grandmother. My heart breaks for her,
55:11
Speaker 1: Dorothy in this particular case, and you know Camanie's mother
55:18
Speaker 1: as well. Dorothy was the one that was tasked, you know,
55:22
Speaker 1: with her well being and now this is something that's
55:26
Speaker 1: going to haunt her. I can guarantee you. And I
55:29
Speaker 1: hate that, I really do. It's a tough world out there.
55:33
Speaker 1: You've got to get out there and make a living,
55:35
Speaker 1: and that as a grandmother you've been tasked with taking
55:38
Speaker 1: care of your grandchild is you know, it's well, it's
55:44
Speaker 1: something that happens every single day all over this country.
55:49
Speaker 2: No.
55:49
Speaker 1: Thirteen year old should be subjected to a life of abuse, neglect,
55:57
Speaker 1: sexual assault, And we don't know if this was the
56:01
Speaker 1: very first time this had occurred, but what we do
56:05
Speaker 1: know is that the world has been deprived of a
56:09
Speaker 1: beautiful young girl who died in a horrible way and
56:14
Speaker 1: was discarded like garbage. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
56:25
Speaker 1: is body bags