Latest / Motor Trade Radio / ⚡SPECIAL EPISODE: "You need to be fleet of foot in this industry!" Swansway's Peter Smyth on the September plate-change, industry challenges and opportunities! (E61, S12)

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⚡SPECIAL EPISODE: "You need to be fleet of foot in this industry!" Swansway's Peter Smyth on the September plate-change, industry challenges and opportunities! (E61, S12) · Motor Trade Radio

• 0:05
  Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Motor
• 0:07
  Speaker: Trade Radio podcast powered by
• 0:10
  Speaker: Cazoo.
• 0:11
  Speaker: With Philip Northward and Curtis Hutchinson bringing you all the
• 0:15
  Speaker: chatter that matters across the car retailing sector from
• 0:19
  Speaker: factory to forecourt.
• 0:25
  Speaker: Hello and welcome to this
• 0:27
  Speaker: special episode of Motor Trade
• 0:29
  Speaker: Radio today.
• 0:30
  Speaker: We're delighted to welcome back Peter Smyth.
• 0:33
  Speaker: Good.
• 0:34
  Speaker: Today we're delighted to welcome back Peter Smyth, co-director of
• 0:39
  Speaker: Swansway Group, rated number eighteen in the a m one hundred.
• 0:44
  Speaker: The crew based, family owned business was founded in two
• 0:47
  Speaker: thousand and three by chairman Michael Smyth and is still run
• 0:51
  Speaker: by him and his three sons.
• 0:54
  Speaker: The group has over twenty dealerships across the north
• 0:57
  Speaker: west of England, the The Midlands and North Wales.
• 1:02
  Speaker: It represents eleven brands VW cars, VW commercials, Audi,
• 1:07
  Speaker: Seat, Cupra, Land Rover, Peugeot, Honda and more recently
• 1:12
  Speaker: it has expanded with Chinese OEMs BYD, JQ and Ohmeda.
• 1:19
  Speaker: It also operates five
• 1:21
  Speaker: multi-brand motor match used car
• 1:24
  Speaker: centres.
• 1:25
  Speaker: Now, with the seventy six plates change well and truly underway,
• 1:30
  Speaker: we thought this would be a good opportunity to catch up with
• 1:33
  Speaker: Peter to discuss how September panned out, as well as find out
• 1:38
  Speaker: some of the latest developments at Swansea Swansway Group.
• 1:42
  Speaker: So welcome back to the show Peter.
• 1:44
  Speaker: Good to have you back on.
• 1:46
  Speaker: Yes.
• 1:46
  Speaker: Thanks for allowing me to come on to chat to you guys.
• 1:50
  Speaker: It's it's an absolute pleasure.
• 1:51
  Speaker: I think we've got you at an opportune time as we sort of
• 1:55
  Speaker: close the the September month off and start to think about now
• 2:01
  Speaker: as we enter the fourth quarter of the year into it.
• 2:04
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:06
  Speaker: And that is the fourth quarter
• 2:08
  Speaker: is, in my opinion, a crucial
• 2:10
  Speaker: quarter to end to end to end the
• 2:14
  Speaker: year.
• 2:14
  Speaker: Um, but obviously quarter three
• 2:17
  Speaker: for both us and the OEMs is, is,
• 2:21
  Speaker: is huge.
• 2:21
  Speaker: It's a setter for the year, isn't it?
• 2:23
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 2:24
  Speaker: It's the last opportunity to really make a difference.
• 2:27
  Speaker: I mean let's start off with the plate.
• 2:30
  Speaker: Change the seventy six plate change.
• 2:32
  Speaker: I mean what did you see in terms
• 2:34
  Speaker: of demand for new cars across
• 2:37
  Speaker: the group?
• 2:37
  Speaker: Was it in line with your initial expectations as we came into the
• 2:41
  Speaker: month of September?
• 2:43
  Speaker: And what did it tell you about consumer confidence or the
• 2:46
  Speaker: business in general?
• 2:49
  Speaker: Well, I think it's fair to say that I funnily enough, I have
• 2:53
  Speaker: some statistics here, but broadly speaking, it was about
• 2:57
  Speaker: in line with our expectations, in our hopes.
• 3:01
  Speaker: That said, it felt like a long, hard slog and there was
• 3:08
  Speaker: definitely some additional hours to put in right at the end.
• 3:13
  Speaker: I mean, right until the death,
• 3:15
  Speaker: the the cut off, uh, is six
• 3:18
  Speaker: o'clock for registering
• 3:20
  Speaker: vehicles.
• 3:21
  Speaker: And believe you me, uh, our
• 3:23
  Speaker: fleet department was still
• 3:25
  Speaker: trying to register cars at one
• 3:26
  Speaker: minute to six on the thirtieth
• 3:29
  Speaker: of September.
• 3:30
  Speaker: So it's been a long, hard slog.
• 3:32
  Speaker: Um, it's, um, it's met our expectations.
• 3:36
  Speaker: In fact, I can, I'm quite happy
• 3:38
  Speaker: to share some information, but
• 3:40
  Speaker: what we do across, um, well,
• 3:44
  Speaker: across every month, but
• 3:45
  Speaker: particularly in September, we
• 3:48
  Speaker: compare our sales rate on a
• 3:51
  Speaker: daily basis.
• 3:53
  Speaker: Um, and our new car gross profit.
• 3:56
  Speaker: Our used units are.
• 3:58
  Speaker: We used gross profit and F and I we compare it um with the
• 4:03
  Speaker: September twenty five.
• 4:05
  Speaker: Um and just to share some, some interesting bits of information.
• 4:10
  Speaker: Our new and this is just retail.
• 4:13
  Speaker: Our new retail units were up by just under ten percent.
• 4:17
  Speaker: Okay.
• 4:18
  Speaker: Um, our new gross profit was
• 4:23
  Speaker: interestingly up by just under
• 4:25
  Speaker: thirty percent.
• 4:27
  Speaker: And that is because of the additional gross profit, I
• 4:32
  Speaker: believe that has been put in there by some of the Chinese
• 4:35
  Speaker: brands that we represent.
• 4:37
  Speaker: Used cars in true numbers terms
• 4:41
  Speaker: are is up by two point seven
• 4:45
  Speaker: percent.
• 4:46
  Speaker: I mean I think it's fair to say we're pretty good at used cars.
• 4:49
  Speaker: We have twenty rooftops and we sell twenty thousand cars a
• 4:52
  Speaker: year, which the mortar match are encompassed in that.
• 4:56
  Speaker: So each one of our rooftop sells
• 4:59
  Speaker: a thousand used cars a year, and
• 5:01
  Speaker: that was up by two point seven
• 5:02
  Speaker: percent.
• 5:03
  Speaker: But the margin on used cars was
• 5:06
  Speaker: actually up by ten percent F.
• 5:10
  Speaker: And I was up by just over five
• 5:13
  Speaker: percent.
• 5:15
  Speaker: And we do generate a lot of our F and I from the the sale of
• 5:20
  Speaker: used cars because of a lot of the sub vented sick schemes that
• 5:24
  Speaker: the the OEMs have.
• 5:26
  Speaker: So on the whole, our our total
• 5:31
  Speaker: daily profitability was up by
• 5:33
  Speaker: fifteen percent.
• 5:35
  Speaker: But that will not travel down to
• 5:38
  Speaker: the bottom line because that's a
• 5:40
  Speaker: gross situation.
• 5:43
  Speaker: Um, I would imagine that our bottom line for September will
• 5:47
  Speaker: probably be somewhere in the region of about five percent up
• 5:51
  Speaker: on this time last year, which we're very pleased about.
• 5:54
  Speaker: I mean, that's a fantastic result.
• 5:56
  Speaker: I mean, if you think about that new retail being up ten percent,
• 5:59
  Speaker: but, you know, still maintaining growth and you so you're not
• 6:03
  Speaker: seeing any erosion from used into into new, which has always
• 6:06
  Speaker: been a bit of a, a fear antic with the well, it has AutoTrader
• 6:12
  Speaker: were telling us only the other day that they believe that
• 6:15
  Speaker: margins nationally are up by circa seven percent.
• 6:20
  Speaker: So our ten percent is pretty well in line really.
• 6:23
  Speaker: It's um, it's, uh, slightly
• 6:26
  Speaker: better, but we do go for a very,
• 6:29
  Speaker: very high turn rate as a, as a
• 6:31
  Speaker: company.
• 6:31
  Speaker: And I think it's fair to say
• 6:33
  Speaker: myself, John and David are
• 6:35
  Speaker: obsessed with the age of our
• 6:37
  Speaker: used cars.
• 6:39
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 6:39
  Speaker: I mean, that's, that's, you know, I mean, every time we
• 6:41
  Speaker: spoke to you before knowing you as a business, I mean, you know,
• 6:44
  Speaker: you focus on over age and, you know, that that used car market
• 6:49
  Speaker: is, is key in managing that.
• 6:52
  Speaker: It's where you can make a real difference.
• 6:54
  Speaker: Phil um, you know, sometimes you're very much guided by what
• 7:00
  Speaker: the manufacturers, um, appetite is for volume, um as, as to
• 7:07
  Speaker: what, what deals you can offer out there, but with used cars,
• 7:11
  Speaker: it's totally left within your domain to, to get the, uh, to
• 7:17
  Speaker: get the result that you want.
• 7:19
  Speaker: And you're very disciplined.
• 7:21
  Speaker: There's still reasonable margin to be made in used cars.
• 7:25
  Speaker: And it's going to be very interesting when we get sight of
• 7:27
  Speaker: the, uh, the new car figures, um, tomorrow morning, which is
• 7:32
  Speaker: Friday, I believe the Smmt have said they're going to announce
• 7:34
  Speaker: the, the figures ahead of the, the weekend as to, you know,
• 7:38
  Speaker: what the share looks like and the manufacturer growth looks
• 7:43
  Speaker: like isn't it.
• 7:44
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker: I, I believe and I could have
• 7:48
  Speaker: this wrong, but I believe
• 7:50
  Speaker: Volkswagen will maintain number
• 7:52
  Speaker: one spot.
• 7:54
  Speaker: But I think there's a fair chance that one of the Chinese
• 7:57
  Speaker: brands and I'm thinking, no, BYD will have the number two spot
• 8:01
  Speaker: because of Mordor and Jaiku.
• 8:03
  Speaker: Separate the two brands out as
• 8:05
  Speaker: far as the Smmt figures are
• 8:07
  Speaker: concerned.
• 8:08
  Speaker: But there was no um, I don't it
• 8:11
  Speaker: was no secret that um a number
• 8:14
  Speaker: of twenty thousand units has
• 8:16
  Speaker: been bandied around by both
• 8:19
  Speaker: Armada Jaiku and BYD for the the
• 8:22
  Speaker: entire month.
• 8:24
  Speaker: And I believe that with BYD that could put them in second place.
• 8:29
  Speaker: But we'll find out won't we.
• 8:30
  Speaker: Tomorrow morning.
• 8:32
  Speaker: And Peter you know following up
• 8:34
  Speaker: on that uh a motor and jaiku you
• 8:38
  Speaker: added fairly recently last
• 8:40
  Speaker: December.
• 8:41
  Speaker: So this is your first September with those two brands.
• 8:45
  Speaker: And you also have three BYD
• 8:47
  Speaker: sites which are more
• 8:49
  Speaker: established.
• 8:50
  Speaker: And you've already said how the Chinese brands have helped boost
• 8:54
  Speaker: the the gross profit.
• 8:56
  Speaker: What's your take on how these
• 8:59
  Speaker: brands performed individually
• 9:01
  Speaker: across the group in the month of
• 9:04
  Speaker: September?
• 9:05
  Speaker: Curtis.
• 9:06
  Speaker: Yes.
• 9:06
  Speaker: Yes.
• 9:07
  Speaker: Specifically in the plate change.
• 9:10
  Speaker: I think they performed a at the
• 9:13
  Speaker: retail level very, very, very
• 9:15
  Speaker: strongly because the offers were
• 9:17
  Speaker: well in place by both of those
• 9:20
  Speaker: Chinese brands.
• 9:22
  Speaker: They were very, very strong and
• 9:26
  Speaker: they invited customers into the
• 9:29
  Speaker: showrooms.
• 9:31
  Speaker: What the what the where the
• 9:33
  Speaker: Chinese OEM somewhat differ from
• 9:36
  Speaker: the more traditional OEMs is
• 9:39
  Speaker: they are prepared to get
• 9:40
  Speaker: involved in the nitty gritty,
• 9:44
  Speaker: along with the retailer on the
• 9:48
  Speaker: events that you do on the
• 9:50
  Speaker: showroom and they do national
• 9:51
  Speaker: events.
• 9:52
  Speaker: So we did VIP events in Volkswagen in Seattle, um, in,
• 9:57
  Speaker: in, in Audi, but we weren't forced to do that by the OEM.
• 10:04
  Speaker: Where as with the Chinese brands, they did a national
• 10:10
  Speaker: offensive on those VIP events, which is, is, is interesting.
• 10:16
  Speaker: And they are very, very retail
• 10:18
  Speaker: focused, sales focused, daily
• 10:21
  Speaker: sales focused.
• 10:23
  Speaker: They will tell you how you compare with other, um, dealer
• 10:30
  Speaker: groups on a day to day basis.
• 10:33
  Speaker: And unlike the traditional OEMs
• 10:35
  Speaker: where they may give you a bar
• 10:37
  Speaker: graph and show you where you
• 10:39
  Speaker: actually, um, end up on that the
• 10:42
  Speaker: bar chart with the Chinese
• 10:44
  Speaker: brands, they're quite happy to
• 10:46
  Speaker: display every single retailer
• 10:48
  Speaker: they almost name and shame if
• 10:50
  Speaker: you like.
• 10:51
  Speaker: It's a very, very different philosophy.
• 10:54
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker: And that's interesting, isn't it?
• 10:56
  Speaker: So they got behind this national campaign.
• 11:00
  Speaker: And you must have seen that in terms of footfall across your
• 11:05
  Speaker: ammo and bide dealerships.
• 11:08
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 11:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 11:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 11:10
  Speaker: They um the numbers, the the
• 11:12
  Speaker: retail numbers are right up
• 11:14
  Speaker: there.
• 11:15
  Speaker: Um, you know, with, uh, with, with, with some of the big
• 11:18
  Speaker: players, uh, the, the Volkswagens and, and the Audis
• 11:21
  Speaker: of this world.
• 11:22
  Speaker: Definitely.
• 11:25
  Speaker: I mean, pt, I mean, the September plate change, as we
• 11:28
  Speaker: said, it's, uh, you know, it's a key trigger now for the EV
• 11:32
  Speaker: consideration, especially, you know, we've got the, the Smmt
• 11:35
  Speaker: reporting that there are now, you know, over one hundred and
• 11:38
  Speaker: seventy EV models to choose from in the marketplace.
• 11:42
  Speaker: I mean, obviously from a business such as yourselves.
• 11:46
  Speaker: And we've talked about EV a
• 11:47
  Speaker: couple of times with you on the
• 11:49
  Speaker: podcast.
• 11:50
  Speaker: I mean, how was the EV market from a new car perspective
• 11:55
  Speaker: through the group and obviously September, but but obviously
• 12:00
  Speaker: used as well because that's starting to change a little bit
• 12:03
  Speaker: in the marketplace.
• 12:05
  Speaker: Yeah, I think there's two different elements to, to, to
• 12:08
  Speaker: look at there.
• 12:09
  Speaker: Um, EV when the Smmt figures
• 12:14
  Speaker: come in will be seen to have
• 12:17
  Speaker: performed well, but I knew you
• 12:20
  Speaker: were going to ask me this
• 12:20
  Speaker: question.
• 12:21
  Speaker: So I actually done a little bit of homework behind that.
• 12:25
  Speaker: So I can probably give you some figures.
• 12:29
  Speaker: Um, and I am now talking from a purely retail perspective.
• 12:34
  Speaker: Okay.
• 12:35
  Speaker: Um, our fleet department will have registered a ton of EVs in
• 12:42
  Speaker: the month of September.
• 12:43
  Speaker: You can be absolutely sure on that.
• 12:46
  Speaker: But I want to share with you now
• 12:48
  Speaker: some percentages, which I think
• 12:50
  Speaker: you might find quite
• 12:52
  Speaker: interesting.
• 12:54
  Speaker: So in terms of BYD, from a
• 12:58
  Speaker: retail perspective, around
• 13:02
  Speaker: thirty percent of the cars that
• 13:04
  Speaker: we sold will have been true EV,
• 13:09
  Speaker: which is very, very strong in my
• 13:12
  Speaker: opinion.
• 13:12
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:13
  Speaker: If you take a model Jku and everybody considers the Chinese
• 13:20
  Speaker: brands electric vehicles, believe you me, they're not.
• 13:25
  Speaker: We sold one hundred and forty new a model from our site in
• 13:32
  Speaker: Stockport and three percent of them were true EV.
• 13:38
  Speaker: Okay.
• 13:39
  Speaker: Okay.
• 13:40
  Speaker: The other ninety seven percent were internal combustion petrol
• 13:44
  Speaker: engines, but the vast majority were hybrid alternatives.
• 13:49
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker: If you then compare that, for example, against Volkswagen.
• 13:57
  Speaker: True EV retail is circa around ten percent and Audi, it's
• 14:07
  Speaker: somewhere in the region of sixteen to eighteen percent.
• 14:13
  Speaker: So we are a million miles in true retail terms away from the
• 14:22
  Speaker: Zev mandate figures.
• 14:25
  Speaker: And that I find that I find that alarming.
• 14:30
  Speaker: But what it does do, it backs up the, um, the tweet.
• 14:36
  Speaker: They don't call them a tweet nowadays that Robert Forrester
• 14:41
  Speaker: put out the other day about the true position of EVs.
• 14:48
  Speaker: And I've got to say I back, Robert.
• 14:51
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 14:52
  Speaker: One hundred percent because Robert said that he was
• 14:56
  Speaker: extremely disappointed with the FDA trying to lobby the
• 15:02
  Speaker: government to say by twenty thirty, we it would be
• 15:07
  Speaker: acceptable for us to be between fifty and sixty percent.
• 15:12
  Speaker: I didn't understand the between bit.
• 15:14
  Speaker: Well, I put the actual number to
• 15:17
  Speaker: one side, but I didn't I didn't
• 15:18
  Speaker: really I think Robert's
• 15:22
  Speaker: absolutely right.
• 15:24
  Speaker: Um, because in true retail terms, EV is not actually making
• 15:33
  Speaker: up the numbers that are shown and the OEMs are having to do
• 15:39
  Speaker: tactical registrations in the fleet marketplace to get
• 15:45
  Speaker: anywhere near the numbers that the Zev mandate needs.
• 15:51
  Speaker: Um, so I agree entirely with what Robert said.
• 15:56
  Speaker: It is going to have a detrimental effect on the
• 16:00
  Speaker: profitability of both OEMs and car dealers alike.
• 16:08
  Speaker: And, um, Peter, just to finish
• 16:10
  Speaker: off on September, what customer
• 16:13
  Speaker: feedback are you typically
• 16:15
  Speaker: hearing within the group on the
• 16:17
  Speaker: factors driving that EV
• 16:19
  Speaker: consideration and transition,
• 16:22
  Speaker: especially, you know, with
• 16:24
  Speaker: attentions focused during the
• 16:26
  Speaker: plate change?
• 16:27
  Speaker: What what are you hearing?
• 16:28
  Speaker: Well, obviously of late, I think we've all known that that diesel
• 16:33
  Speaker: at the pumps now is is two pounds a liter.
• 16:37
  Speaker: I think that's um there's, there's no secret there.
• 16:41
  Speaker: Um but I think every
• 16:43
  Speaker: consideration is affecting the
• 16:48
  Speaker: used car market just as much, if
• 16:51
  Speaker: not more than the the new car
• 16:54
  Speaker: market and those geopolitical
• 16:56
  Speaker: events, um, not just with, uh,
• 16:59
  Speaker: what is going on in the Middle
• 17:01
  Speaker: East, what is going on with
• 17:02
  Speaker: Ukraine, but also what is going
• 17:05
  Speaker: on within, um, the United
• 17:09
  Speaker: Kingdom.
• 17:11
  Speaker: There is a squeeze on people's spending of that.
• 17:15
  Speaker: There's no doubt.
• 17:17
  Speaker: And what we are finding is the, the vehicles now, some of the
• 17:23
  Speaker: EVs now that have been around for quite some considerable
• 17:26
  Speaker: time, uh, you know, you, you, you can buy EVs under the
• 17:31
  Speaker: auctioneer's hammer at three, four or five thousand pounds.
• 17:34
  Speaker: Now, those types of cars are
• 17:38
  Speaker: getting snapped up very, very
• 17:41
  Speaker: quickly.
• 17:42
  Speaker: In fact, you've used EVs now.
• 17:45
  Speaker: Probably if you if I look at the used EVs that we sell on our
• 17:51
  Speaker: forecourts, uh, compared to the new retail EVs that we sell
• 17:56
  Speaker: against, the new cars that we sell, our percentage is far
• 18:00
  Speaker: higher on our used car forecourts than it is, than they
• 18:03
  Speaker: are in our new car showrooms.
• 18:06
  Speaker: So the used EV sector, I think is fair to say is very, very
• 18:11
  Speaker: strong indeed because people are now looking at it, um, with
• 18:15
  Speaker: especially people on more limited incomes, they're looking
• 18:19
  Speaker: at it and they're seeing the long term benefits of driving an
• 18:22
  Speaker: EV and this tipping point.
• 18:25
  Speaker: I mean, we've been, we've been on the lookout for this for a
• 18:28
  Speaker: long, long time.
• 18:29
  Speaker: But do you do you think a lot of
• 18:31
  Speaker: it is down to these geopolitical
• 18:33
  Speaker: events?
• 18:33
  Speaker: And as you reference rising fuel
• 18:36
  Speaker: prices, this is driving used EV
• 18:39
  Speaker: Consideration.
• 18:41
  Speaker: Um. I don't know whether it's just geopolitical events.
• 18:45
  Speaker: I think it's the fact that, you know, EV's been around us now
• 18:47
  Speaker: quite a long time.
• 18:49
  Speaker: Um, there's a lot of positivity,
• 18:52
  Speaker: a lot more positivity about
• 18:54
  Speaker: driving an EV than, than there
• 18:56
  Speaker: ever was, um, out there in the
• 18:58
  Speaker: marketplace.
• 18:59
  Speaker: Listen, let's face it, an EV car drives superbly is really quick.
• 19:06
  Speaker: Um, so why wouldn't you, uh, want to make the switch over to
• 19:12
  Speaker: driving an EV if it's going to save you money?
• 19:15
  Speaker: And I think people are sort of
• 19:17
  Speaker: they're getting over the range
• 19:20
  Speaker: anxiety hump.
• 19:21
  Speaker: I really do believe that, uh, that that is the case.
• 19:24
  Speaker: It's a real winner if you can charge at home, that's for sure.
• 19:29
  Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
• 19:31
  Speaker: But I'm not telling you anything that you guys don't know there.
• 19:34
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:36
  Speaker: We'll be back with more from
• 19:38
  Speaker: Swansea's Peter Smith after the
• 19:40
  Speaker: break?
• 19:42
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• 19:43
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• 19:49
  Speaker: Next up is our latest men able moment looking at mental health
• 19:54
  Speaker: and wellbeing best practices in the automotive sector.
• 19:58
  Speaker: With me, Stephen Whitton.
• 20:05
  Speaker: I'll edit that bit out.
• 20:06
  Speaker: Apologies for that.
• 20:06
  Speaker: Let's do us all off.
• 20:08
  Speaker: Um, so I mean, Peter, we, we
• 20:11
  Speaker: touched on some of the new
• 20:13
  Speaker: entrant Chinese brands, you
• 20:15
  Speaker: know, in the first half a little
• 20:17
  Speaker: bit.
• 20:17
  Speaker: And, you know, with the, you know, the monthly number stats
• 20:21
  Speaker: coming out, the Smmt, you know, collectively driving the, the
• 20:25
  Speaker: new car market.
• 20:26
  Speaker: You know, we had Harry bot on
• 20:28
  Speaker: the podcast last month and
• 20:30
  Speaker: thinking about, you know, actual
• 20:33
  Speaker: new entrant volumes versus the
• 20:36
  Speaker: established brands and starting
• 20:38
  Speaker: to see some of that decline in
• 20:40
  Speaker: actual volume.
• 20:41
  Speaker: Um, as these new entrants start to grab grab market share.
• 20:46
  Speaker: I mean, as a retailer, I mean, we talked obviously with you
• 20:49
  Speaker: growth, you're quite well established now with BYD now
• 20:52
  Speaker: taking on Jacob.
• 20:53
  Speaker: And I think um, you know, you've probably got some other ones
• 20:58
  Speaker: maybe cited in the future or within the BYD brand.
• 21:03
  Speaker: I mean, what are you now
• 21:06
  Speaker: thinking and considering taking
• 21:08
  Speaker: on additional brands, um, and
• 21:11
  Speaker: growing your, your
• 21:12
  Speaker: representation of some of these
• 21:14
  Speaker: new entrants?
• 21:16
  Speaker: I, I think there's, there's actually, it's a very, very
• 21:20
  Speaker: interesting question that, um, because you're saying to me, are
• 21:24
  Speaker: you effectively considering taking on more of what we
• 21:29
  Speaker: already have or taking on, um, more brands when it comes to
• 21:35
  Speaker: taking on more of what we already have, be that B, y, D
• 21:39
  Speaker: and a Mordor.
• 21:40
  Speaker: I would actually flip that.
• 21:43
  Speaker: And I would say that those brands now are considering which
• 21:49
  Speaker: dealers they now want to take on their brands, and which dealers
• 21:55
  Speaker: are going to do the best retail job for them.
• 21:58
  Speaker: So I'm not arrogant enough to
• 22:00
  Speaker: say, oh, well, I'd like, um, ten
• 22:03
  Speaker: bid sites.
• 22:05
  Speaker: I mean, first of all, I don't
• 22:06
  Speaker: think BYD would allow that to
• 22:07
  Speaker: happen.
• 22:08
  Speaker: Um, because they are now
• 22:11
  Speaker: becoming far more choosy as to
• 22:15
  Speaker: who they want to partner up
• 22:19
  Speaker: with.
• 22:20
  Speaker: Um, the demands of the, uh, Chinese OEMs are going to get
• 22:27
  Speaker: greater and greater.
• 22:29
  Speaker: And so if you said to me, um, do
• 22:34
  Speaker: you want to take on more Chinese
• 22:36
  Speaker: brands?
• 22:37
  Speaker: I'd say yes, of course I would look at that.
• 22:41
  Speaker: But you have to have the premises in order to operate
• 22:44
  Speaker: those Chinese brands.
• 22:45
  Speaker: Now we work from twenty rooftops, so currently I haven't
• 22:50
  Speaker: got any more spare capacity.
• 22:53
  Speaker: The only thing I can do is go out and buy other dealerships
• 23:00
  Speaker: that are vacant.
• 23:01
  Speaker: And because of what has happened, particularly with BYD
• 23:05
  Speaker: and amortized over the last two years, those dealerships are now
• 23:10
  Speaker: very far and few between.
• 23:13
  Speaker: You then ask yourself the question, well, do I go and get
• 23:15
  Speaker: a greenfield site, and do I go and build a brand new centre to
• 23:21
  Speaker: retail cars from.
• 23:23
  Speaker: But then if you actually do the sums and you look at the price
• 23:26
  Speaker: of land, you look at the cost of planning, you look at the time
• 23:30
  Speaker: that it takes to do that.
• 23:32
  Speaker: And most importantly, you look
• 23:34
  Speaker: at the cost to build new sites,
• 23:37
  Speaker: then it doesn't look very
• 23:39
  Speaker: viable.
• 23:40
  Speaker: Um, so yes, we would love to do
• 23:44
  Speaker: it, but you've got to have,
• 23:46
  Speaker: first of all, the places of
• 23:47
  Speaker: representation to, um, to
• 23:50
  Speaker: represent those brands and
• 23:52
  Speaker: you've got to have the actual
• 23:53
  Speaker: physical premises.
• 23:55
  Speaker: So it is a little bit of a dilemma at this moment in time.
• 24:00
  Speaker: What could happen is some of the
• 24:05
  Speaker: more traditional brands may
• 24:08
  Speaker: start having conversations with,
• 24:11
  Speaker: uh, dealers such as ourselves as
• 24:14
  Speaker: to, is it more viable to stick
• 24:17
  Speaker: with a brand that you might have
• 24:19
  Speaker: had for twenty, thirty, forty
• 24:21
  Speaker: years?
• 24:22
  Speaker: Or has the time come to say, I have decided to, uh, put a new
• 24:29
  Speaker: Chinese brand in there, which is a risk in itself as well.
• 24:33
  Speaker: But I can see that happening in the trade.
• 24:36
  Speaker: We have not got that in Swann's
• 24:39
  Speaker: Way on our agenda at this moment
• 24:42
  Speaker: in time.
• 24:43
  Speaker: We've got three B wide.
• 24:45
  Speaker: We're looking very closely at Denza which is the the luxury
• 24:49
  Speaker: brand of BYD.
• 24:52
  Speaker: Um and we, but we will be doing that out of premises that we
• 24:55
  Speaker: already, uh, already own.
• 24:58
  Speaker: Um, yes, we will look at Chinese brands, but I would, I would
• 25:04
  Speaker: preface that by saying we would need, uh, some premises to
• 25:08
  Speaker: operate out of.
• 25:09
  Speaker: And I think most dealer groups
• 25:11
  Speaker: now can be of that size unless
• 25:15
  Speaker: they've got large, large
• 25:17
  Speaker: premises where they can, um,
• 25:20
  Speaker: where they can dual the
• 25:21
  Speaker: franchises.
• 25:22
  Speaker: But we're kind of topped out almost at this moment in time,
• 25:26
  Speaker: which is sad because there are some very, very good, uh, brands
• 25:32
  Speaker: on the way.
• 25:33
  Speaker: I was looking only two weeks ago
• 25:36
  Speaker: at Icaa, and the offering that
• 25:39
  Speaker: Icaa have, which is, is part of
• 25:42
  Speaker: um, is, is part of the cherry
• 25:44
  Speaker: group.
• 25:45
  Speaker: And for um fifty thousand pounds, you're getting an awful
• 25:51
  Speaker: lot of bang for your buck.
• 25:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 25:54
  Speaker: I think you're right.
• 25:55
  Speaker: I think, you know, as we said
• 25:56
  Speaker: right at the start, I mean, your
• 25:58
  Speaker: rooftop representation, a lot of
• 25:59
  Speaker: those are as you said, multi
• 26:01
  Speaker: franchise incorporate the the
• 26:04
  Speaker: used car operations within them
• 26:06
  Speaker: as well.
• 26:07
  Speaker: That motor match.
• 26:08
  Speaker: And as you say, you know, when
• 26:10
  Speaker: you talked about your numbers
• 26:11
  Speaker: before earlier on about that
• 26:13
  Speaker: growth of GP and growth of new
• 26:16
  Speaker: news, etc., but actually with
• 26:18
  Speaker: costs as they are at the minute,
• 26:21
  Speaker: it's not translating all the way
• 26:23
  Speaker: down onto the the bottom line is
• 26:25
  Speaker: it?
• 26:25
  Speaker: So you've got to be strategic now.
• 26:28
  Speaker: And as you say, I think we talked about this a while ago
• 26:31
  Speaker: that, you know, at the start, whether it's the bid, whether
• 26:35
  Speaker: it's the Jacob or other new entrants come to the market,
• 26:38
  Speaker: it's initially about open points, brand awareness, brand
• 26:41
  Speaker: presence, and then through time, as they start to establish a
• 26:47
  Speaker: brand in the marketplace, establish, you know,
• 26:50
  Speaker: representation, then we knew they'd become more selective of
• 26:54
  Speaker: who they want as brand partners like other OEMs do.
• 26:58
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker: I think, for example, I mean, let me give you an example.
• 27:01
  Speaker: You don't get much nowadays.
• 27:04
  Speaker: If you were to build a site, you
• 27:05
  Speaker: wouldn't get much for four
• 27:08
  Speaker: million quid.
• 27:09
  Speaker: And if you were to find a
• 27:10
  Speaker: greenfield site and spend four
• 27:12
  Speaker: or five million pounds and then
• 27:15
  Speaker: decide to put in a newcomer
• 27:19
  Speaker: Chinese brand, you would have
• 27:22
  Speaker: four years of of working in
• 27:25
  Speaker: brackets because yes, you would
• 27:27
  Speaker: be selling a lot of new cars at
• 27:29
  Speaker: the front end, but used cars and
• 27:32
  Speaker: it is still growing and
• 27:34
  Speaker: maturing.
• 27:36
  Speaker: Uh, with those Chinese franchises after sales is
• 27:40
  Speaker: obviously growing and mature.
• 27:41
  Speaker: Maturing part sales is growing
• 27:44
  Speaker: and maturing as as the parks
• 27:47
  Speaker: increase.
• 27:48
  Speaker: So it would be quite a brave move if you were to make that
• 27:53
  Speaker: decision of, look, I'm going to buy a piece of land, I'm going
• 27:56
  Speaker: to get planning permission, I'm going to build a stand alone
• 27:59
  Speaker: dealership, and I'm going to house it with one Chinese brand.
• 28:03
  Speaker: Because what I have found with the Chinese OEMs, they don't
• 28:08
  Speaker: like partnering up with the rival OEM on the same site.
• 28:12
  Speaker: They can all help it.
• 28:14
  Speaker: And as a business, you've got to
• 28:15
  Speaker: manage that overhead absorption,
• 28:16
  Speaker: aren't you, which comes through
• 28:18
  Speaker: sales.
• 28:18
  Speaker: And you know, if you haven't got
• 28:20
  Speaker: that, then you run a very
• 28:22
  Speaker: challenging balance sheet until
• 28:24
  Speaker: you start to get some of that
• 28:25
  Speaker: after sales revenue through the
• 28:26
  Speaker: business.
• 28:27
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker: So if you take our B, y, d sites.
• 28:30
  Speaker: Every single one of them is adjoined to a mortar match site,
• 28:34
  Speaker: and I take the three by D sites that we've got in September, as
• 28:40
  Speaker: well as the use by D's.
• 28:42
  Speaker: And we're selling roughly, um, use bids.
• 28:47
  Speaker: We're selling roughly thirty five a month.
• 28:49
  Speaker: But on top of that we're selling
• 28:51
  Speaker: in some cases up to one hundred
• 28:54
  Speaker: mortar match as well on that
• 28:55
  Speaker: site.
• 28:56
  Speaker: And then we've got the new bid offering as well.
• 28:59
  Speaker: Um, so that makes the site very, very lucrative and profitable.
• 29:06
  Speaker: Now Peter, as we record this, uh, as we've said, it's the
• 29:10
  Speaker: first of October, it's the beginning of the final quarter.
• 29:14
  Speaker: You've got a very successful September behind you.
• 29:18
  Speaker: So what for you are the main business focuses for the group
• 29:22
  Speaker: as you go into Q4?
• 29:25
  Speaker: Well, as ever, um, and I know it's like a a record with its
• 29:29
  Speaker: needles stuck in it.
• 29:31
  Speaker: Our focus will always be around used cars.
• 29:36
  Speaker: It'll always be around stock turn.
• 29:39
  Speaker: Um, it will always be about
• 29:42
  Speaker: controlling our own average
• 29:45
  Speaker: quite rigidly.
• 29:47
  Speaker: And then we're very much as a motor car dealer.
• 29:51
  Speaker: You're very much at the mercy of
• 29:53
  Speaker: what appetite any particular OEM
• 29:56
  Speaker: will have for the end of the
• 29:59
  Speaker: year.
• 29:59
  Speaker: I am sure that all the OEMs that we are partnered up with will
• 30:06
  Speaker: see themselves as having a job to do with with quarter four.
• 30:11
  Speaker: So when we've.
• 30:13
  Speaker: And there always is, there's
• 30:14
  Speaker: always a big sort of end plate
• 30:16
  Speaker: change month.
• 30:17
  Speaker: There's there's always a little bit of a lull.
• 30:19
  Speaker: So there's always a bit of a lull in April.
• 30:21
  Speaker: There's always a bit of a lull in October as people sort of
• 30:24
  Speaker: draw breath because you do push your teams, um, within the, the
• 30:30
  Speaker: businesses, um to the absolute max in the plate change month.
• 30:36
  Speaker: So everybody sort of stops and draws breath.
• 30:39
  Speaker: But then what we will do as
• 30:41
  Speaker: quickly as we possibly can,
• 30:43
  Speaker: we'll get into the, the nitty
• 30:45
  Speaker: gritty of the, um, the marketing
• 30:47
  Speaker: campaigns that each of the
• 30:49
  Speaker: franchises have.
• 30:51
  Speaker: But our main focus, which will
• 30:53
  Speaker: not stop will be that of used
• 30:55
  Speaker: cars.
• 30:56
  Speaker: And there'll be some overflow water from, from September into,
• 30:59
  Speaker: into October, you pass exchanges coming in the fleet, etc.. And
• 31:05
  Speaker: the trick is, the trick is, um, that all those parts exchanges
• 31:10
  Speaker: you get in, you get them prepped, you get them marketed,
• 31:14
  Speaker: and you get them up for sale on AutoTrader or your website as
• 31:19
  Speaker: soon as possible.
• 31:20
  Speaker: That is absolutely critical.
• 31:23
  Speaker: Um, and there are, I was just
• 31:26
  Speaker: looking at our stocks this
• 31:28
  Speaker: morning, and we are not, at this
• 31:31
  Speaker: moment in time, short of used
• 31:34
  Speaker: car stocks.
• 31:34
  Speaker: What you've got to remember is
• 31:36
  Speaker: you're talking to me on the
• 31:36
  Speaker: first of October, we'll have
• 31:38
  Speaker: probably invoiced the life out
• 31:41
  Speaker: of, um, our dealerships, uh,
• 31:44
  Speaker: yesterday.
• 31:45
  Speaker: And there'll be a lot of um parts exchanges taking in some
• 31:51
  Speaker: which of which obviously we'll dispose of via the auction in
• 31:54
  Speaker: Mannheim, but a lot of them we will retail on either through
• 31:59
  Speaker: the, uh, the, the manufacturer dealerships that we represent or
• 32:04
  Speaker: indeed more to match.
• 32:06
  Speaker: I mean, crystal ball time a little bit.
• 32:10
  Speaker: You know what, as you say, I mean, you, you've got a, it's
• 32:14
  Speaker: always very challenging in automotive, in particularly
• 32:17
  Speaker: dealer retail, because you're kind of looking at month ends,
• 32:20
  Speaker: you're looking at quarter ends, you're looking at year ends.
• 32:23
  Speaker: But at the same time, you've
• 32:24
  Speaker: kind of got to think about
• 32:25
  Speaker: what's what's next year look
• 32:27
  Speaker: like, what do the next five
• 32:29
  Speaker: years look like as a, as a
• 32:30
  Speaker: business?
• 32:31
  Speaker: I mean, what's your thoughts and hopes?
• 32:34
  Speaker: I mean, you know, considering we'll put we'll put the
• 32:37
  Speaker: impending budget to one side as to we don't know what's going to
• 32:40
  Speaker: come out of the budget at the, at the end of the month.
• 32:43
  Speaker: But as a business and as you know, the Smyth family, what
• 32:48
  Speaker: what are your long term hopes and expectations for twenty
• 32:51
  Speaker: twenty seven looking like?
• 32:54
  Speaker: Well, twenty two let me just finish on twenty twenty six.
• 32:58
  Speaker: Um, we hope to achieve a financial result in twenty
• 33:04
  Speaker: twenty six, not too dissimilar to, to twenty twenty five,
• 33:10
  Speaker: depending on, on how the the final quarter goes.
• 33:15
  Speaker: Last year, twenty twenty five, after goodwill write off, we
• 33:18
  Speaker: made ten million pounds.
• 33:20
  Speaker: I'd like to think we could get
• 33:22
  Speaker: somewhere near that if we can
• 33:24
  Speaker: keep it going in, um, in, in
• 33:27
  Speaker: quarter four.
• 33:28
  Speaker: Um I don't see um over the next
• 33:34
  Speaker: two to three years, the trade
• 33:37
  Speaker: really being any different,
• 33:40
  Speaker: particularly if ourselves and
• 33:43
  Speaker: the OEMs have to battle with
• 33:46
  Speaker: unrealistic, uh, Zev mandate
• 33:49
  Speaker: targets.
• 33:49
  Speaker: I can't at this moment in time see my way through that fog.
• 33:54
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:55
  Speaker: Um, but, uh, you know, at the end of the day, and, and I
• 33:59
  Speaker: always say this, there are seventy million people in this
• 34:02
  Speaker: country, they all need to get from A to B. It's been proven
• 34:07
  Speaker: that people don't particularly like to share cars.
• 34:09
  Speaker: They don't want to use public transport.
• 34:12
  Speaker: Um, so we at Swansway have always got to be a provider of
• 34:17
  Speaker: some form of mobility.
• 34:19
  Speaker: Um, and I think there'll always be a living to be made out of
• 34:25
  Speaker: the retail motor trade just at this moment in time.
• 34:30
  Speaker: It would appear that it tends to
• 34:32
  Speaker: be a one percent return on sales
• 34:35
  Speaker: industry.
• 34:36
  Speaker: I think that's fair to say.
• 34:38
  Speaker: If you if you look at the financials that are coming out
• 34:41
  Speaker: eighteen percent beta sorry.
• 34:43
  Speaker: You mean it's not the eighteen percent.
• 34:46
  Speaker: No. If only it was.
• 34:49
  Speaker: I mean, look, I'd settle for
• 34:51
  Speaker: anywhere between one and a half
• 34:53
  Speaker: and two just at this moment in
• 34:55
  Speaker: time.
• 34:56
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker: We're enjoying about a one percent return on sales margin.
• 35:00
  Speaker: Um, other people, um, experience a better return on sales, but
• 35:06
  Speaker: then you've got to understand where they are as a business,
• 35:09
  Speaker: what sort of borrowings they've got, etcetera, etcetera.
• 35:13
  Speaker: You know, you can get individual sites and you know, I bring up
• 35:17
  Speaker: somebody like Robin Luscomb who's got one site, three
• 35:21
  Speaker: Franchises on that site.
• 35:23
  Speaker: And, you know, his return on sales will be astronomical.
• 35:27
  Speaker: Because he's just exceptionally good at what he does.
• 35:31
  Speaker: Uh, I'm sure his site must be manic.
• 35:34
  Speaker: Uh, he tells me that it is.
• 35:35
  Speaker: Um, but I think, I think
• 35:37
  Speaker: there's, there's, there's a,
• 35:38
  Speaker: there's a living to be made in
• 35:40
  Speaker: the motor trade at this moment
• 35:43
  Speaker: in time.
• 35:44
  Speaker: I worry about investment from the outside in the motor trade
• 35:50
  Speaker: and where that's going to come from at this moment in time,
• 35:54
  Speaker: particularly with what is going on in the UK at this moment in
• 36:01
  Speaker: time with regard to taxation and whether or not they are in a
• 36:06
  Speaker: position to welcome investment that's needed in.
• 36:10
  Speaker: So I think the the foreign investment is, is going to be
• 36:15
  Speaker: tricky at this moment in time.
• 36:17
  Speaker: Um, it's always cyclical, but I
• 36:20
  Speaker: would imagine the likes of, um,
• 36:22
  Speaker: Dave Kendrick and people who are
• 36:25
  Speaker: in the M&A type of the market
• 36:28
  Speaker: will, will be struggling at this
• 36:30
  Speaker: moment in time, but no doubt it
• 36:32
  Speaker: will come.
• 36:32
  Speaker: Again, I think from your perspective, I think knowing you
• 36:35
  Speaker: as a business over the, uh, the many years, I mean, you.
• 36:40
  Speaker: And so I'll say, but you there's areas that you can influence and
• 36:44
  Speaker: change and control and there's areas that you can't.
• 36:47
  Speaker: And I think one thing that, you
• 36:49
  Speaker: know, Swann's Way as a, as an
• 36:50
  Speaker: organization and yourselves as a
• 36:53
  Speaker: family have managed to do is
• 36:54
  Speaker: just focus on what you can
• 36:56
  Speaker: control.
• 36:57
  Speaker: And yeah, I think you've got to
• 36:59
  Speaker: be able to control what are the
• 37:01
  Speaker: controllables within your
• 37:03
  Speaker: sphere?
• 37:04
  Speaker: Um, I think that, listen, I
• 37:05
  Speaker: think there's a lot of things
• 37:06
  Speaker: that we can do an awful lot
• 37:08
  Speaker: better.
• 37:09
  Speaker: Um, I think that, um, some of our, uh, succession planning
• 37:14
  Speaker: could be better.
• 37:15
  Speaker: I think we could be better in areas of after sales.
• 37:18
  Speaker: I think we've got no choice.
• 37:20
  Speaker: We've got to get better in areas of smart repair.
• 37:23
  Speaker: Um, so there's always a lot to do.
• 37:27
  Speaker: Um, even though even if you're not growing.
• 37:29
  Speaker: And that's not to say that we're
• 37:31
  Speaker: not looking to grow, um, in the
• 37:34
  Speaker: short term.
• 37:35
  Speaker: Um, in fact, we are looking to
• 37:37
  Speaker: grow within the, uh, the short
• 37:39
  Speaker: term.
• 37:40
  Speaker: You've got to ask yourself the question though.
• 37:43
  Speaker: Do you want to get to the stage turnovers circa a billion
• 37:47
  Speaker: pounds, but you've got to get to a stage as a family business
• 37:51
  Speaker: where you say, right, well, what am I happy with?
• 37:55
  Speaker: Do I feel that I've got control over the business?
• 37:58
  Speaker: And I think John, David and I
• 38:00
  Speaker: could speak for them and, and
• 38:02
  Speaker: say, we don't want to get too
• 38:04
  Speaker: big.
• 38:05
  Speaker: Um, but if there's always opportunities out there, we're
• 38:09
  Speaker: kind of, you know, sometimes like kids in a sweet shop and we
• 38:13
  Speaker: like to have a dabble.
• 38:16
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:17
  Speaker: No, I think, I think as you say always, it's you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker: opportunities will present themselves to the right fit at
• 38:24
  Speaker: the right time.
• 38:25
  Speaker: Then it's something you'll you'll obviously look at isn't
• 38:28
  Speaker: it, I suppose.
• 38:29
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:30
  Speaker: I mean, you need to be fleet of foot in this industry.
• 38:35
  Speaker: And I think the more fleet of foot you are, the more you can
• 38:39
  Speaker: exploit the situation.
• 38:42
  Speaker: I mean, I, I'm always in, um, in
• 38:45
  Speaker: awe to a company like Arnold
• 38:48
  Speaker: Clark who are absolutely huge,
• 38:50
  Speaker: but still seem to remain very,
• 38:53
  Speaker: very fleet of foot with what
• 38:54
  Speaker: they're doing.
• 38:55
  Speaker: And, um, you know, undoubtedly
• 38:58
  Speaker: for me, I, Clark is, uh, is the
• 39:01
  Speaker: ultimate benchmark in retailing
• 39:04
  Speaker: in, uh, in the UK motor trade
• 39:06
  Speaker: indeed.
• 39:06
  Speaker: Probably in Europe.
• 39:09
  Speaker: Well, Peter, many, many thanks for joining us on this special
• 39:13
  Speaker: motor trade radio episode.
• 39:16
  Speaker: Uh, Philip and I really enjoyed
• 39:17
  Speaker: this conversation, and I think
• 39:19
  Speaker: one of my lasting memories will
• 39:21
  Speaker: be of you and your brothers in a
• 39:23
  Speaker: sweet shop.
• 39:25
  Speaker: Well, believe you me, if you look at some of our waistlines,
• 39:28
  Speaker: we've been in there.
• 39:32
  Speaker: But yes, look, many thanks for coming back on the pod.
• 39:36
  Speaker: It's been too long because I
• 39:37
  Speaker: think last time we caught up
• 39:39
  Speaker: with you, it was your twentieth
• 39:41
  Speaker: anniversary.
• 39:41
  Speaker: So we're three years on from that already.
• 39:44
  Speaker: So as I say, many thanks for joining us, Peter.
• 39:47
  Speaker: It's an absolute pleasure.
• 39:49
  Speaker: So Philip and I are back this weekend with our round up of the
• 39:53
  Speaker: big car retailing headlines.
• 39:55
  Speaker: Until then, it's goodbye from me and it's goodbye from him.
• 40:01
  Speaker: Thank you for listening to the Motor Trade Radio podcast
• 40:05
  Speaker: powered by Cazoo.