Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #137: Donnie Vincent On Improving Wildlife Habitat & Developing a Land Ethic

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #137: Donnie Vincent On Improving Wildlife Habitat & Developing a Land Ethic · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this episode number one thirty
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: seven tay in the show, we are joined again by
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Donnie Vincent, and this time we're diving deep into his
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: hunting and habitat improvement experiences on his own Wisconsin property.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: brought to you by Sick of Gear. And today we're
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: back again with a very recent guest, Donnie Vincent. And
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in our last episode with him back during the fall,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: we talked about a bunch of different things, but right
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: towards the end of that conversation we really briefly touched
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: on the fact that Donnie had been doing some habitat
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: work and hunting on a property of his own in Wisconsin.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: And after that episode went live, both Donnie and I
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: got feedback from folks wanting to hear more about that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: side of what Donnie's doing. You know, you hear a
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: lot about Donnie's big sheep hunts, and I don't know
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: moose hunts or bear hunts all over the place, but
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: not often do we get to hear about what he's doing,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: you know, on a regular piece of property that he
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: owns and manages kind of like us. So today we
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to specifically talk about, you know, how Donnie found
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: this property, how he acquired this property, what his habitat
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and deer management goals and plans have been, what has
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: he specifically done, why do it all that kind of stuff,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: and also kind of catch up on some of his
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: more recent hunts there too since last time we talked.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So that's the plan for today and then and then
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: also on top of that, I did want to follow
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: up on something that we talked about again last time,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and that was a book that Donnie had mentioned that
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: he reads. I think he said he reads every year,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and I've read it recently while I read it several
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: years ago again recently, and that's a Sand County Almanac
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: by Aldo Leopold. And Leopold someone you've probably heard about
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the history of hunting and conservation
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: in this country, But if you haven't read the book,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you might not know a lot about his ideas, or
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: in particular his idea about a land ethic, which is
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: something that's guided much of the conservation movement over the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: last I don't know, thirty fifty years or so. So
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping we can dive into this idea of a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: land ethic too, because I think Donnie is going to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: have some interesting insights to share on that front. And Uh,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: this whole topic of a land ethic and conservation and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: wildlife and wild places that's been on both of our
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: minds a lot lately, hasn't it been. That's a fact man.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: You you sent me a message today and you said, hey,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: can we get on a little bit earlier today because
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I need to. I need to vent about some of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. And and I love it when
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I get those messages from you, because when you need
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to vent, I know, it's usually about something that I
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: want to vent up out to. So, right, what's what's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: on your mind? Well? And you know, this all kind
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: of started. I mean it didn't really start, but it
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: diesel was dumped on the flame, so to speak, at
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the A T A Show when I realized, you know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: when it I shouldn't say, I realized I felt that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: there was not enough emphasis on conservation or the animal
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: or you know, the keep it public movement, UM, that
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: we hunters should be really focusing on. And I don't
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: just mean we, I mean every person in the industry,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: whether you sell a product or you make your money
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: off of advertising dollars like some of the hunting celebrities do,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: or even you know, guys like me and you, um,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm just as guilty of it. There needs to
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: be more focus on it. And uh, if you are
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: to the point where if you are in the end street,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: it should be mandatory because you are making your money
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: off of um uh, a natural resource that is kind
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of being treated as like, uh, I don't know, like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a commodity. Almost. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's funny you mentioned
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: that commodity piece because there's there's some really interesting things
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: that Leopold had to say about the difference between looking
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: at the land and wildlife in our natural resources as
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  Speaker 1: a commodity versus as something that we are part of
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a community with UM and I and and later when
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: we're Donnie, I want to actually read a couple of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: things about that, because I think he has some powerful
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: things to say. But but dude, you're so right. Um,
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  Speaker 1: And it's funny. I was just thinking about this too,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and how you know whether it's the public land's issue specifically. Um, well, hey,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is a right in general
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: when it comes to conservation or just taking care of
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the land that we hunt, or the environment, all these
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: different things, but also when it comes to this kind
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: of public lands thing specifically. I was sitting here and thinking,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you know, okay, like I care about public lands because
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I have got to experience them a lot. I've gotten
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to hunt on them, I've gotten a fish on them,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I've gotten a camp and hike and backpack and kayak
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: and and and and see these places. Um, but some
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: people maybe have not ever gotten to one of these places,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you know. And I start wondering, you know, what, do
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: these people care about it at all? Like I do?
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  Speaker 1: Like do they hear me talking about this stuff all
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the time and just like roll their eyes and say
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Mark again on in one of his rants about public land.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: And I started thinking, like, should these people that only
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: hunt private land that have never been to these plates
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: some of these bigger western maybe public lands, or maybe
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: haven't hunted public land here in the East or the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Midwest or south, Like, should they care about this kind
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: of thing, And I'm actually writing an article right now
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: about it, kind of laying out like four or five
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: reasons why I think they should um even from like
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: a selfish standpoint being that, you know, really quick not
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: to like steal the thunder of the article that I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: still but but really quickly like, Okay, I think about this.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Even if you only hunt private land out here, what
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: happens if all the public land around you or around
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the country. What if that public land is so mismanaged
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and degraded and developed that it can't support wildlife populations
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: anymore and you can't hunt there, or what if it
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: just gets sold? So what happens if the millions of
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: hunters that do utilize public lands all of a sudden can't, Well,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: they're going to start trying to hunt private land, or
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: they're gonna try to find private land. So that means,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you know, more competition for the pieces that you have
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: permission on. There might be more people trying to lease properties,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: There might be more hunting on your property borders that
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: are bugging you. You You know, competition is like a thing
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: already for private hunters. It's going to be a lot
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: worse if there's no public access at all. So there's
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: one simple reason, like just purely, if you want to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: think about how it will impact you as as a
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: private land hunter, there's one simple way. Or what about
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the fact that new hunters traditionally typically don't have a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: place to hunt, So a lot of new hunters are
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: dependent on lands because that's that's the easiest way to
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: get out in the woods and try this hunting thing. Um. Right, Well,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: if we don't have public lands or there's not public
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: lands available to hunt easily, you know, we're not going
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: to gain those new hunters as as easily as we
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: might have otherwise. And as we've talked about in the past,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you know, if the numbers of hunters continue to decline,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: we will lose our influence in democracy where you know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: votes equal privilege. Right, So I won't go down this
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: road any further, but it's it's been something I've been
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: thinking about two and it's something that I think it
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: does impact all of us. Right. I saw I saw
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a article or comment on social media where and this
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: it's it kind of goes back to the two percent
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: for conservation organization. How you know, I feel that as
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: hunters we should demand that the companies who are making
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: money off of hunting give back in some way, shape
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: or form. Therefore, you know, we can say, all right,
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  Speaker 1: I would love to see you support two percent for conservation,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and and because of that, then I will
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: buy I will continue to buy your product, you know
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Um, I just feel that there's so
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: much money out there that could be given to conservation
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: efforts that's currently not Yeah, whether that's commercial or individuals
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: like ourselves, right, And I'll tell you what I don't.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is just because I'm kind
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of weird like this, but I think that that is
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: some of the best marketing a company can do. Like
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I see companies that do support conservation or you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the environment or whatever it might be, whether it's two
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  Speaker 1: percent for conservation or one percent for the environment, or
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: you just hear about some of the different things that
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: companies are doing. When I know there's a company that
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: prioritizes that, um consistently, and I hear about that, and
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  Speaker 1: I understand that that's something that matters to to the
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: people there, Um, I'm way more likely to spend my
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: money with them. Um, that's a fact. I mean, I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: can't remember if I've talked about it before, but you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: so obviously, as we talked about all the time, I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: wear sick A gear for like all my hunting stuff
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: of course, and they're great supporters of this, but like
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: for for my non hunting um stuff like fishing gear
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and some of that type of stuff. I'm a big
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: supporter of Patagonia because of how much they do on
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that front. Like if you look into the things they're
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: doing to help a lot of causes related to public
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: lands and wildlife and stuff like that, Like they're doing
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: some really cool stuff there too. Um, And that's like,
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  Speaker 1: if I'm going to spend you know, however many dollars
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: it is on a pair of waiters or something, I'd
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: rather spend it with a company like that who's doing
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: some good things with that money versus you know, someone
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: who's just like looking to make a dime. So I
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: think it drives sales too. It can help companies, and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it's also the right thing to do. Right now, I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: have a question about the Patagonia is and maybe I'm
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: thinking of a completely different company. Um, they're an out
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: they're an outdoors company, but from a backpacking or camping standpoint, Um,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: is Patagonia pro hunting. So Pentagonia, as far as I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: understand is now they're not like a hunting company at all.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: But I know that I know that Ivan Shnard is
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the founder, and I know he hunts um and I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: know upland hunting and he I know he lives in Jackson,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Wyoming and eats a lot of elk and eats a
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: lot of deer from some of his friends that are
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: hunters and stuff. So from everything I've read and seen, um,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: they've been you know, hunting neutral and pro public lands,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: pro environment all that kind of stuff. Um So, so yeah,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, that's that's the type of
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: company that I'm that I'm interested in support. And now,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: of course, you know, if I found out otherwise, you know,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: there's definitely some companies out there that are you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: pro environment but anti hunting, and those are the types
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of companies that I definitely you know, would like to
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: see change that stance. And there's there's two and this
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: is this is a whole another thing we're getting into.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: But you know, there's I don't know, I think there's
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways that the non hunting environmental movement
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and the hunting, environmental or conservation movement, however you want
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to phrase it. I think there's a lot of things
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we have in common. So, like one of my big
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: things is I'm always trying to find was, like, how
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: can we try to bridge that gap a little bit more.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I know, sometimes it's not always going to be possible.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: There's going to be crazies on that side that refused
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: to look at the world that we the way we do,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and so that's kind of a lost cause. But I
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: think there are people that are willing to listen and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: willing to work with us if we don't like shut
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: them out, if we don't like automatically assume well, because
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you're a quote unquote tree hugger, I don't want to
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have anything to do with you. Um, when maybe of
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: those people actually are, hey, pretty okay with what we do,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: when they find out what we do and how we
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: do it, and hey, maybe we can work together. My
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just like advocating for let's let's have an open mind,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: and but on both sides, asking for them to have
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: an open mind, asking for us to have an open mind,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and like, let's work together, because whether it's public lands
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: or clean air, or clean water or healthy wildlife populations
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: like all that stuff. We both want the same things,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: um and and I think if we hunters don't you know,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: recognize that and don't like start caring about that a
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: little bit more. Hey, we're not going to have any
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: deer to to fill the freezer put on the wall,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and we're not gonna have places to go have these
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: incredible adventures were not you know, our way of life
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: just doesn't exist if those core elements aren't there, right,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that's that goes to an organizational level
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: as well, where you know, companies I don't know, hunt
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: some kind of hunting organization, let's say, like the Rocky
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Mountain el Foundation or National Deer Alliance partners with someone
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: who they might never partner with, like the National Federation
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of Bird Watchers, you know, you know, something like that
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: where where I don't even know if that's a real
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: thing first of all, but it could be. Or you know,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the you know, people who are into kayaking or you know,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: backpacking and you know, like just going out backpacking and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: coming back in Really we should, like you said, we
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: share way more in common than we have in differences.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: The only differences we we kill an animal and we
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: eat it. That's really that's really the only difference between
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: myself and someone who goes out and backpacks. Yep, it's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: we share the same we share the same beliefs, we
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: share the same interest we we share the same love
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: for nature and the same uh you know, the same
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you know, the respect for the public lands. Yeah, it's
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: very true. It's it's just sometimes people get bogged down
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: in the one piece that is different, and understandably that's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a big thing, and some people can't get over that. Um.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm just trying to say, hey, there
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: are some people who can who can see through that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and see the value of what we do, and let's
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: let's let's let's put a hand out to those folks
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: at least. So well, I got a question for you, Dan, Okay,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: when was it? And I don't know if you can
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: think of a moment or in an experience, but was
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: there any moment for you when like you started to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: feel this way like for me, you know, for the
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: longest time, you know, I hunted just because I hunted,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and I was outside all the time, and I loved
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: the outdoors and I love fishing. I loved killing deer
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and eating deer and doing all these things, and I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: was obsessed with it um But then like at some point,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: like within the last like eight years, eight or nine years,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: it really last like five years, especially the last like
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: three years, really really like something clicked for me. And
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was some of these experiences
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I've had, but something clicked for me where all of
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: a sudden I went from just wanting to do that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: thing to like really wanting to make sure this thing
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: is taken care of and avail in the future. Like
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: do you remember any kind of moment like that for you?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Is there an experience that kind of epitomizes that? So
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I don't even know. I'm gonna say early nineties, mid nineties,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: probably early nineties. My dad took me and my brother
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: from Iowa to Colorado on a UM on the amtrack
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: train and we drove all we wrote on it all
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: through the night, got in Denver, rented a car, and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: went up into the mountains. We went to Rocky Mount
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Mountain National Park, and I don't remember all of it
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: because I was younger. And then we went to a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: couple other places, all public land, right, and you know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: just drove up in the mountains and it took my
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: breath away. And I had already had a love for
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: nature because I did a lot of fishing and trapping
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: when I was younger, but just going out there and
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: experiencing like the mountains and and and stuff like that
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: was for me kind of a game changer. But as
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: far as me realizing that it's time to actually start,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: you know, like take action and time to put in
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: work and you know, enough of this bullshit talk that
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: everybody talks, but very few people follow through with action.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: And it it was just, I guess ever since I
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: went on that elk hunt with you in I'd home,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: there was a fire that was lit in me where
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I want to live this life. Not not necessarily I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: want to I want to live It's it's hard to
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: explain because it's more of a feeling than it is words. Right.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I want my kids to have the same opportunity to
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: go out and experience, even if they're not hunters, but
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to go out and stand on a mountaintop and just
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: look and not see any buildings, or if they want
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: to disappear into the wilderness, they have the opportunity to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: do that. If they want to go, you know, to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: a public boat access or a public access waterway and
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: someday go fishing, you know, fly fishing or even fishing
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: around Iowa. I want them to have the same opportunities
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that that I did, because I feel that nature can
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: really change your life. And like I said, it's it's
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: hard to put into words because it's it's a feeling.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Just like you know, I talked about how bow hunting
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: kind of changed my life, how I jumped into bow
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: hunting and it kind of took me off of this weird,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you know, this self destructive path. I feel that nature
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: has these these healing powers, not just not necessarily physically,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: but for the human spirit and like emotionally as well,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you know, without a doubt. And I gotta believe anyone
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: who has done this kind of thing long enough can
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: relate to that. Like we've all had those moments where
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it's revives you and it brings you back to life.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Almost sometimes when no matter how bad the badest stuff
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: is in the rest of your life, you can go
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: out and whether that's the back forward behind your house
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: or if that's a piece of public land and you're
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: able to get away from it all like that has,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: like you said, a serious kind of healing power. Um.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: But I do think that sometimes it takes like some
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: kind of experience or enough immersion in that to like
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: begin to realize it. Like I mean, you know, you
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: can't expect someone to care about something or to take
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: action on something until they've actually experienced it and felt
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that type of thing that you're talking about. Um. But
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to our point, most hunters have felt something like that.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: It's just a manner of like being thoughtful and mindful
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: of that and realizing that and realizing, hey, this isn't
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: a guaranteed thing unless we take that action. But I mean,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: think about this, Dan. Back when we're hunting elk in Idaho. Right,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: We've got our our two tents set up on that
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: little knob, and we've got the forest and the mountains
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: rising up behind us. But then looking downhill, you've got
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: this big valley and then that great big mountain and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: ridge lines on the other side of the valley, and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: you and me. After a long day hunting, it's dark out.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: We hiked all the way back to camp. We put
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: our pull our food down from the bare bags, grabbed
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: our little portable backpacking stoves and a little pot and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: fill those up with water and set on our butts
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: right there on the edge of that knob, and are
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the waters boiling for our little freeze dried meal. And
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the sun is set, but there's a little bit that
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: little line of orange, you know, on the horizon, but
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: the stars already coming out above you, and the mountains
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: in front of you now are just a silhouette, but
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a very clear black silhouette. I mean, do you remember
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: that moment, just sitting there and it's perfectly quiet, and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: it's just you sit there in a moment like that,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and you see no lights, you see no civilization, It's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: just you and this wilderness. And I don't think you
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: can sit there and have an experience like that and
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: not like feel something, um and feel like I think.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I think though in a way, um, you were there
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: once and although you did experience it, I think a
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: majority of the people out there. For me, it's I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: feel I have this negative feeling towards my cubicle and
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I dislike it, you know, like I feel like I'm
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: in a cage at times. I dislike it. Like, don't
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, I love the people I work with.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: It is a great job. I love doing my job,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: but sitting in my cubicle gives me kind of the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: opposite feeling of sitting on top of a mountain, you
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, or walking through the timber looking
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: for sheds or whatever. But I feel that that negative
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: energy can trigger positive energies without necessarily without necessarily experiencing
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So I feel I feel that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: can be motivating to want change, even though you may
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: not have experienced it up front in your face. Yeah. Yes,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: so you're saying by vertus with the fact that so
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: much negative energy out of this current experience, that you
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: want to ensure that there is the potential for that
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: positive out there, which which there's you know, there's something
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: to be said about the fact that I can't remember.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I think it was well. This guy is famous writer
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: named Wallace Stegner was writing about the importance of wilderness
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and he wrote this thing called this this letter called
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the Wilderness Letter, back in the year sixties or seventies
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: when the Wilderness Act was passed, And you should google
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: this and read the letter. It's it's it's very it's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: very profound writing about the value of wilderness and He
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: said something in the lines of the fact that you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: even if you're never ever going to step foot in
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a in a wilderness area, you know, in one of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: these places where you know there aren't cars and parking
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: lots and lots and people and buildings and businesses and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, even if you're never going to go
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to one of those places, there's an inherent value just
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: knowing it's out there, Like when you're sitting in your
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: cubicle miserable and work down to the bone and you've
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: got fluorescent lights staring down on you for twelve hours
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: a day. Just the fact that you know that there
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: is something still wild and free and available out there.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I think that has some power. And he said that
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you know that those those places, those last vestiges of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: like that hope out there. He called that the geography
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: of hope and um and that's kind of a pretty
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: powerful thing. I think even if you aren't there right now,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: or can't be there, or never plan on being there,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: there's a value just to know that there's still places
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: like that out there. Yea. And it motivates me, yeah,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Like it motivates me to do good on my podcast
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: so I can someday maybe step away from my cubicle.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It motivates me to save my money so I can
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: take my family out there to show them what it's
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: all about. I talked to my I talked to my daughter.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I'd say once a week, and I always say, ay,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: but do you want to come to the mountains with
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Daddy sometimes? Yeah? I want to come go to the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: mountains with you sometimes, And I cannot wait for that
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: day to take her to some you know drop, you know,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: drive up overlook of the giant Valley somewhere, it doesn't
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: matter what state it's in, and just be like, look
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: at all this we could explore if you wanted to. Yeah,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: we can do we can do whatever you want. Yeah,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that's and that's gonna be a pretty awesome moment. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: then I'll say, though, too, right, the tiny at home
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: wilderness quote unquote areas are are just as important to
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: whether it be you know, the little county park or
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you're hunting property. I mean, I think I think the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: things we're talking about, like the valuing these places and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: trying to find a way to protect them or um
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: help conserve them in some way like that can be
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: applied to big Western public lands, but it can also
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: be applied to your little farm too, and showing that
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: care and respect even here. Um. And I think that's
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: kind of kind of where our conversation is going to
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: go from here. As we talked to Donnie, I really
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: want to hear about how he's implementing these types of
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: ideas on a little property here in Wisconsin, just like
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: any one of us listening could probably do. UM, because
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: there's something special about that too. I think you've got
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: to kind of feel that even a little bit. Just
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: planning a food plot this year, you know, it's kind
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: of cool to to to to give back in some little,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: tiny way and see the wildlife using that and benefiting
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: from it. I mean, didn't that feel pretty special in
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a small way? Yeah? It Uh, I don't know, man,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Like I said, it's it's more feeling for me than
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: than words. I I got so much enjoyment out of it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Was almost like check me out, I'm a man, right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I planted stuff and it grew like beat my chest.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: There's there's a little a little bit of that, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: at the same time there was this, hey man, this
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: is awesome. I helped feed the animals through breaking of ground,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know it was. Well, it's it's another one
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of those ways that we connect back to the earth
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: kind of you know, and I think every time we're
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: reminded of that connection, it like it. It's so it's natural, right,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, humans have been doing this forever. It's only
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: just recently that there have been all these kind of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you call them, obstructions put in
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the way between our relationship with the land and us.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Now there's grocery stores and you know, all these other
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: things that keep us from being connected to it. So
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: every time that we can reconnect that, you know, whether
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: it be through you know, planting a garden yourself, or
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: planting a food plot for wildlife or hunting, I think
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: all these things that were tap into something that's like
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: very human and um, it just feels right, you know.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Or even something as simple as leaving your phone in
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: your truck or your vehicle and going and sitting down
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: next to a pond or lake and just not being connected. Yeah,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: so true, so true. I think I think people feel
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: vulnerable and that's what scares them on some of this.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: You know, this is a little hippie talk, you know
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: what I mean. But hippie podcast episode, right, But this
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: is definitely it's definitely needed. It makes I feel, it
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: makes people better. I agree. I agree. Speaking of better,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: is is your daughter feeling better after screaming back there
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: in the background. I told you every podcast there's gonna
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: be the random outbursts, and that there it was, and there.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. But it was perfect because we need
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: to we need to take a break now and we
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: gotta get ahold of donning. But first we're gonna take
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a fast break to thank our partners at Sitka Gear.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: So if you heard our episode last week discussing the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Archer Trade Show, you might remember us mentioning that Sitka
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: is launching a new big game line and camera pattern
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: this year called Subalpine. And today, to give you just
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a little more insight into what this whole Subalpine thing
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: is all about, I wanted to share with you guys
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a little snippet of the video they're released to help
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: with this announcement. We don't design all purpose gear, because
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: all purpose gear really translates to designed to compromise. We
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: designed specialized gear an improves the experience. So it's a
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: constant questioning are we doing everything to land to optimize
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: for the pursuit. Our core big game hunters start chasing
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Elkin Yell during late summer and it can be hot
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: at that point. Weight and breathability mean everything. So we
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: developed the lightest system we've ever created. This is close
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: quarters Huney. So we've optimized these systems with an all
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: new pattern called Opti Fate Subalpine. It's designed for engagements
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: of fifty yards or less on the ground in bench
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Dave Terin. And so it comes back to experience. It's
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: our desire to go further, to get closer, to stay longer,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: and it's through a focused approach they were able to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: experience more. If you would be interested in learning more
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: about Sitka's new Subalpine line, you can visit sitka gear
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: dot com, slash sub Alpine and out. We're gonna get
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: back to the show and give Donnie a call. Al
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: right back with us for round three is Donnie Vincent?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us again, Danny, Yeah, thanks for having that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: At least it's not two years in between like the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: last time. That's true, that's true. It's it's only been
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: like a couple of months or something like that. And
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and like we were talking about um before we got
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: you on here. You know, when we talked with you
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: last time this fall, we talked all about, you know,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: your deer hunts in North Dakota, and we talked about
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: some different things with kind of current events and everything.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: But at the very end we had touched on, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: really briefly, the fact that you have this property in
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin that you're working on and hunting all that kind
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: of stuff, and we just very briefly touched on. So
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I thought today we could really focus there, um, you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: talk about how you found this property, how you start
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: thinking about it, what were the things of your goals plans,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: what did you actually do all that kind of stuff. Um.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: So does that all sound pretty good Donny if we
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: go down that road? Yeah? Absolute? Really In fact, um,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: after our last podcast, UM, I had quite a few
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: people write me just questions here and there about things
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that I've done, management, Why why this? Why not this?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: So there's definitely some interest even though we just touched
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: on it towards the end there. Yeah. So I think
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: when most of us think about you, Donny, we think
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: about you know, your films. The rivers divide out there
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: in North Dakota or Terra Nova hunting Caribou. I think
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: that was in Nova Scotia or something like that. Um, Newfoundland, Newfoundland.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you and your bare hunts out in Canada or
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: last all these different things. I don't think many people
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: think about you hunting a little egg property in Wisconsin
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: like all the rest of us. Um, can you can
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit just about like your
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: history from a deer hunting perspective in that part of
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the country, because that's like where you've lived and hunted
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: for quite a while when it comes to deer, right, Yeah,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I've I've hunted Wisconsin since oh Man, um, since the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: early two since I had a friend of mine, Like
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: when I was in college. I had a friend of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: mine that owned fifty three acres in Manominee, Wisconsin, which
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: is about, I don't know, call it two hours east
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: of Minneapolis, uh in you know central Wisconsin and people
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: in north central Wisconsin. And I leased that from him
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: for years and years and years, and then a few
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: years ago he ended up selling that property. And it
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: was fantastic because it was fifty three acres. It was
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a rolling wooded ridge with a little trout stream what's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: my eastern border and you think fifty three acres whatever,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: what could that be? But um lo and behold. It
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: had fantastic wildlife on it, and I had a couple
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: of really I never killed one. It was a difficult
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: property to hunt, but I had some books that lived
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: there that were you know, world class one and you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: if you're talking inches of antler, I'm talking one sixties
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: to one nineties things like that, that of deer that
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I had, um that were you know, that lived in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that valiant. And so when my friends sold that property, um,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, I just kind of would hunt with friends
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: here and there. But I was very much interested in
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: finding another property the lease or buy, um just because
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I love obviously I love hunting their home. Not everything
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: can be a huge expedition. And I've had some really
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: very real adventures and very real, um sensational hunts, you know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: an hour from my house or minutes from my house,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I've I've seen some really fantastic things. So I never
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I never turned my nose down to hunting around locally.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: And I always like to, you know, have something some
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: place to go, a place that's my own, you know,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: where I can just go and Wednesday night when I
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: get when I get out of the office, I could
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: sneak into a tree like everyone else for a couple
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: of hours. Do you have any one of those hunts
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: or experiences that close to home hunt or experience that
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: stands out is like one of those that right off
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the top that you heard like that was one of
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: those really special moments even though it was just right there. Yeah,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: I'll be uh, to be honest with you. One of
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: the ones that I think of often, there's there's two
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of them. One is the very first white tail buck
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: that I ever killed with a bow was on that
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: fifty three acres. Because I didn't start bow hunting until
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: pretty late in life. Um so I was in my
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: twenties when I started bow hunting, and and I had
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I got off that super early in the morning, and
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and this was back when I was just fanatical about
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: quote unquote scent controls. So I had all my clothes washed.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I had washed my street clothes because I had a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: long drive, trolled all the way from my house in
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis to my property. And I got out in my
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: driveway and I was getting dressed. It was chilly. Morning,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: was awesome. It was in November, I was just starting
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to snow a little bit and I realized that I
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: had forgotten my release on my kitchen table in Minneapolis.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I was just my word, I forgot my release, so
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: really quickly. I tried to come to full draw with
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: my compound boat and I was shooting a whole it
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: at the time, and I tried to come to full
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: draw with just fingers, and I was like, can I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: do this? And I and I did come to full draw,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I cannot do this. This is
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be messed up, you know, because I
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: was still learning. So I was like, no, this can't happen.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: So I was like, calm down, chill out, because I was,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: you know, very very high energy about hunting perfectly as
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: perfectly as I could. So I just got back on
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: my truck, calmly, drove all the way home, walked inside
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: literally my releases sit right down in the kitchen table,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and grabbed it, walk right back outside, got in my truck,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: drove another two hours back to the property, and I
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: got there about I don't know, it's like nine thirty
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: ninety five in the morning something like that. Got my
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: stuff on. I was like I was just quietly walking,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and I walked in big puffy snowflakes coming down, and um,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I've always been afraid of heights, and so early on
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I was very afraid of heights. I've gotten much more
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: comfortable over years of hunting and being in the mountains
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: and in the cliffs. I've just kind of come to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the realization of dealing with it. But back then, I
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: was terrified of being twenty ft in a tree, and
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: so I hunted with a summit climber. You guys know
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: those things, right, climbing up the tree that way. Yeah,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: So I really like hunting with a climber because it
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: had that rail that was around my body and I
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: would just feel so much safer in that manner. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I had my climber, I hiked into my spot, set
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: my climber up, and I sat there, you know, all
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the way up got into my spot, this is absolutely
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: true story. And I was pulling my bowl, roll up
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: my bow rope, pop yet my bow up. I was
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: pulling it up, and just as I got it to
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the base of my stand, I bumped my quiver off
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and it fell all the way down to the bottom
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and I just literally stop there like and im a
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: state like, okay, just everybody chill out where it's still.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of hours left. It's a beautiful November day, USA.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So I all the way down, grabbed my quiver all
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: the way up, and I had, um, this is gonna
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: be kind of gross, but I had drank a couple
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of theses of tea while I was driving back force.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like that P So I pulled my PA battle out.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going pe Actually, let me interrupt myself. I decided
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do a rattling sequence, then I'm going
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: to pee, then I'm going to sit down. And so
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I rattled, as you can guess. In the midst of peeing,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I looked down and here comes the buck of my dreams,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: comes walking in circles of the tree at twenty yards
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and I shoot him perfectly. This was my first year
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: with the ball, first buck with the ball, and it
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: was really funny. I shoot him perfectly. He runs just
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: a short distance, tips over dead um, and I text
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: a couple of my friends and said, I just shot
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty ten. And when I got down
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and got to him, he ended up being a hundred
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: and twenty one inch seven. Well, and he looked absolutely
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: monstrous to me. After after a hunting a day like that,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I'd say, any buck is a giant. Well yeah, hang
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: on a second, Hang on a second. You didn't you
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: didn't like finished the story where you were? I mean,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: did you? My mind instantly goes to, did you shoot
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: this buck with your Johnson hanging out? I was, I
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: was not. I was not put away. Okay, that makes
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: the story even better. I we did it. We did
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it in the moment. Yeah, it was just free Willy
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: if you will, Well that is that is a very
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: memorable story, Donny. I wasn't expecting one that. And I've
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: had lots of them, man, I've had lots of you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: awesome turkey mornings. I love the turkey on I've got
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: awesome big white tails and and um, I've just been
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: fortunate enough to I am. People think this is a line.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: But whether I'm hunting stone sheep in British Columbia or
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: you and I link up on a Thursday evening and
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna go and shoot a dough or we're
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: gonna go hunt does on my hunting lease, literally, those
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: two things are the exact same thing to me, They weren't.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Always when I was younger, the bigger expeditions, I thought
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: they meant more. But the more I went on them,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the more every day on the expedition it was first day, second,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: third day, the more I realized that these were just
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: little sub days of the exact same thing that I
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: was doing at home, and that I shouldn't um It
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't even a cognitive thought. It just became that I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: was getting just as excited. I didn't have to mentally
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: get there. I was getting just as excited to hunt
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: at home as I was to hunt in far off places.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And it just happened because I realized that no matter what,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: whether it be in my backyard or in the Arctic Circle,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: they're both fantastic. Yeah, yeah, very true, very true. So
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: and that and that's not the line. That's literally I
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: literally wrapped my hand around that right now. I love it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: It kind of falls right in line with something we
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: were talking about earlier before you got on, just the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: just talking about how there is, you know, this special
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: kind of experience and value in having big wilderness places,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: but then there's also a special type of value and
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: experience and enjoyment of just the tiny little patches behind
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the house, and how there's a different kind of um
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: special experience in both absolutely absolutely and they and they
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and they can hold tremendous value. Right that's like, right now, um,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: what we're about to talk about, I'm trying to manage
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: or starting to change, not even managed, that's that's not
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: even the word I want to use. But I'm trying
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to implement good into this small property because even a
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: small strip of grass or a small tree cutting or
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: planting a small section of pines or whatever it is
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm just trying to make that little section better.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: And you'd be amazed the impact that you can have
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: by managing just bye bye planting and and um implementing
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: habitat and just a small little pieces. It's incredible. Yeah,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So take us back to the beginning. How did you
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: go about you know, because it sounds like you've hunted
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin at your buddy's place least different things like that,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: But how did you actually go to deciding to purchase?
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Because he did purchase this farm right now, and um, no, no,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I I only leased this farm. I leave it. I
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: don't I haven't purchased. I haven't purchased it yet. The
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: landowner and myself I talked about it. We've been talking
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: about it. He really wants me to own it, but um,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: we just haven't went down that road as of yet. Okay,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: So then can you tell us how you found this
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: property to lease? Because I know a lot of people
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: are always trying to fait. How do you find the least?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: How do you get a good lease? So how how
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: did this work out? How do you know this is
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the place that you want to hunt? How do you
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: pick it? That kind of stuff? Yep, Um, it happened
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: to be the building maintenance man of where we have
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: our offices for Sickmanta in Hudson. Uh. He's a local
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: school teacher. He teaches uh special needs kids but in
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: his uh not free time, but in his you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: this is like his second job. He's an awesome handyman carpenter.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: So he takes care of several buildings in town when
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: he's not teaching the special needs kids and so and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: he has he has a lot of free time because
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: he gets off early um at school. And so justin
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: just a happenstance out speaking with him one day and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: he was telling he had a nineteen year old son,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: um at the time, and he's taught me about him
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and his son have this property out of town that
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: they love to go to and just walk around the woods,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and and he had just noticed around our offices, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: the pictures of the wildlife and things like that. So
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, yeah, I have I have a chunk
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: of woods east the town here that me and my
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: kids love to go out on. And so I was
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: asking him about it. He's like, yeah, it's it's a
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty three acres. And then I started asking.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I said, does anyone hunt it? And he said yeah,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: there's there's a house on the property, and the guy
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: that rents the house, he hunts it. And so I said, okay, cool.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I said, well, if that ever changes, um, let me
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: know I'd be interested in potentially leasing that thing. I'd
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: have to go out there and look at it, but
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: i'd be I'd be interested in leasing it for a
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: long term. He's like, oh, let's talk about it right now,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: because the guy that rents the house is like seven
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: months behind. And read Oh, well that's fantastic. So I'll
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: leave you to deal with that gentleman in the house.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: But I basically went in and least I didn't do
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: it maliciously, but I basically went in and and least
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the hunting rights out from underneath this landowner. So um,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: you know, are are superhero. Just basically once the rent
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: e the renter and just said, hey, uh, you no
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: longer have any hunting rights here. Uh you know, obviously
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: you're still in the house. We'll we'll figure out rent
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: that way. But the hundred and fifty three acres and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: as a whole, I've leased it to another guy. And
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: and so I basically just went out there and checked
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: the property out. And what it was is, um it's
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: mostly wooded with secondary growth deciduous hardwoods lots and maple
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: lots of popular things like that. UM. And then the
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: whole center of the property, basically right down the middle
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: like a you know, like a landing strip, is a
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: twenty seven acre old agricultural field. Now, when when our
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: super bought it, heat that field was, UM saw it
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: had completely become overgrown and had little patches of cedar
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: trees and then amongst it. But he was approached a
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: few years ago, I think like four or five years
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: ago by a local farmer and he said, hey, I'd
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: love to come in there and rent that twenty seven
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: acres from you to do roll crops, soybeans and corn.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And at the time, he you know, he just wanted
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: to make more rent on the property, just to make
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: the property make more sense. So he was very reluctant
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: as his nineteen year old son, Um really wanted to
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: He had a vision of you know, he wanted to
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: go out there and build tent platforms for him and
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: his dad and so that if you go camping out
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: there and camp amongst the you know, black eyed Susans
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and the prairie flowers and stuff like that, and just
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: enjoy their time out there. But um, you know, so
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: they ended up leasing it to this road crop farmer.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: He came in started to start doing road crops. Um.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Then I came in and started leasing the hunting rights,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: and then you know, I just saw this thing. It's
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: just you know, it's awesome having the farmer there and
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: the crops and everything. But you know, as soon as
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: the farmer would harvest, you know, he just leaves this
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm saying that he just
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: leave this giant muddy are you know? Craft fest behind
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: when they were done harvesting their crop out, and I
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: was just like, man, I would of to do more here,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: because I would just look at literally as simply as
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I look at the woods and say, okay, the woods
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: are doing this. Look at this field, which is basically
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: essentially came up a parking lot, and then I look
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: at the other side of the wood and say, okay,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: this wood's over here is doing this. And so then
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I just started thinking like, what if I could change
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: this from a parking lot into actually having some value? Um,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: And so I sat down and talked to talk to
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: the super and just said, hey, UM, would you anticipate
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: would you have an interest at least in the entire
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: thing to me? And as it were, Um, sadly enough,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: his nineteen year old son ended up passing away right
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: at about that same time that I had asked him
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: if I could lease the entire property, and so UM
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: we had a very heartfelt conversation about me coming in
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and returning much of that seven acres back to how
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: his oldest son kind of had a vision of going
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: out there and camping with at and just bringing that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: place back to being very wildlife centric and turning it
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: into a place that had prairie and uh and more
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: wildlife and and than than it had evolved into with
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the road crops. If if you will, hm. Wow. So
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: when you first saw it, you know, when you first
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: started leasing it, you know, what did you see there
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: that made you think it had potential? And I guess
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: what we're I know it sounds like your goals changed
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: when you start seeing that. You know, you just kind
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: of had this camera parking lot in the middle and
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: you could do more. But in the beginning, did you
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: ever look at and say, wow, this could be a
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: long term great thing or did it kind of grow
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: on you? Um? It kind of grew on me actually
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: because the first I'm not a very um I'm not
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: an over anxious type of hunter. I'm not somebody that
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: gets completely fixated on um. You know, I guess I
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: leased it for at leased the property for two years
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: before I even ever hunted it. I mean not, I
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: did not step foot on it for two years. I
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: just want I knew it was something that I want
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: to put myself into, but I was so busy traveling
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and I didn't have a lot of time to put
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: so I just put a bunch of cameras up on
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the property in different locations and just you know, trail
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: photo trail cameras, and just left them and then became
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: increasingly interested in seeing. Like when I went back and
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: looked at the photos, I didn't have any big bucks
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: on on the pictures or anything like that, but just
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: watching the box interactions. I had taught several bucks, fighting,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: making scrapes, all of this stuff. And then ironically, the
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: property was owned by an elderly woman prior to my
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: super buying it, and she was I believe she was widowed,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and she was a deer hunter. So on my entire
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: eastern border of the farm field, she had planted apple
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: trees all the way down that edge so that she
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: could shoot deer underneath the apple trees with a rifle.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: And so I was starting to get pictures of these
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: box under these apple trees and just getting tons of
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: daylight movement, Like most of the photos I was getting
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: up the box were in the middle of the day,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: broad daylight, and as you well know, as you start
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: to hunt a property, that very quickly transitions to nighttime movement.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: If you're not you know, if you're not stealthy bot
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: or if you're over hunting the property. So just seeing
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that the box were just moving throughout the property without harm.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: And then I've done some turkey hunts there and I
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: went out three or four mornings in a row, not
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: a row, but went up there three or four mornings
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and said, let's say like a week and a half.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I ended up calling in like thirty five different coms
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: on the property. And so there are a lot of
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: turkeys out there gobbling their heads off and do a stuff.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: So I thought, man, there's all this going on when
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: this is just a farm field, Like, what what pencil
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: would this have if I actually started doing grasses and
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and planted some food that I laft year round and
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: started planting food for both deer and birds and songbirds
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, right on down the line. And so
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: that's when it started to just kind of you know,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: started to roll in my head, started to kind of
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: gain steam, and that I wanted to do more and
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: and make the place pretty cool or try to anyway. Yeah,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: So how did that process then go when you started
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: thinking about that you want to do more here? What
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: what was your vision? How did you start putting a
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: plan together? Well, I oddly enough, UM, I have a
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: small infatuation with warm seasoned grasses. Don't ask me why.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I just think they're pretty cool. Like my house is
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: completely spotted by prairie. Yeah, and they're just like and um,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: you guys know that Mark Jury is a good friend
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: of mine and and uh, you know, I talked to
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Mark often about habitat and about white tail management and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: white tail hunting and um, you know, and he sends
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: me his videos every year. And I watched his video
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: just like everyone else, and I, you know, I was
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: looking at how he sets his properties up and just
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: kind of seeing, you know, Because even though I have
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: worked as a research biologist, I'm not very much of
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: a white tilt biologist. I'm a deer hunter, but I've
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: never spent that much time studying the white til deer.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: So while I had some ideas that I really liked
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: warm season grasses, I knew I wanted to have a
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: year round food things like this, I really didn't know
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: what to implement. And so, um, I actually reached out
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: last year to Ben Harshine, who was a new friend
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of mine. I had met Ben the year before, uh
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: and really loved his maps that you know, Ben owns
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: hun Teren makes these absolutely beautiful and ridiculously functional maps,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and so we had spoken on the phone. I was like, hey,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: would you make me a map of this property? And
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, man, I'd be honored to, you know.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: And so we started a relationship there and the maps came,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: and that solidified my ideas even more. Right. That got
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the wheel spinning even more because now I had this
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: bird's eye view, and not just a bird's eye view,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: not just a pople map, but in the way that
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Ben does his maps, you know, I was able to
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: see um edge. You know. You know, some people know
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: that white tailed deer and different animals do really well
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: where there's an edge where you know, goes from controvers
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: to all hardwoods or conifers to a field or a
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: hardwoods to a field whatever. Wherever there's a distinction and habitat,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the deer do really well. So I started looking with
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Ben's map. I could see because Ben used Ben uses
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the sunlight, if you will, to kind of show you
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the shaded there is to show you to parking. And
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I started seeing edge in the woods um that I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: didn't realize it's there, stands up conifers butting up against
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the siduus trees that I didn't really see how they
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: laid out until I got this map. So it's started
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to get me excited that I called Ben because he
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: does a lot more with quality deer management. He does
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: a lot more with white tail management stuff that I do,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: and um, it's just not a world that I live in.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: And I said, hey, do you know of any white
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: tail managers or wildlife managers that could give me a hand?
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And very quickly he introduced me to a gentleman named
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: um Eric Long who owns Drumming Log Wildlife Management. I
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: think that's the name of company, Drumming Log, you know,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: like Grous Drumming. And he introduced me to Eric, and
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to Um. I knew I wanted to
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: do cool things out here. I knew I wanted to
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: change it up, but I didn't really know what to
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: do or how to do it, or when to do it.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: And as lazy as this sounds, I just didn't have
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: the time to do all the research on the plants
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: and the timings and all this tiff and stuff. And
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly not a farmer. And so I reached out
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: to Eric and just started the ball rolling. We had
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: a conversation and it actually started out when I said, hey,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I don't want to creep you out. I love warm
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: season glasses. He said, well, I love warms eas and
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: grasses too, So we're gonna get along this time. And
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: that's kind of how it started. Um, And you know,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and we slowly grew the project. Um. And luckily they
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: both become friends. And you know, they have come here
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: um very often on their own dime, have come up,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: driven up here, or or flew up here um to
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: come in onto the property and grab a chainsaw and
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: grab you know, a handseater and and come and help
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: me when just out of the love of getting their
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: hams dirty. So um, you know, that's kind of how
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: it started, that's how it perpetuated. So we last time
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: we talked to you briefly mentioned that you guys did
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of hinge cutting, I think, or cutting at
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: least in the woods, and you had planned the grasses
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and some food plots. But how much how much work
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: did this actually entail? I mean, was this was this
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: all of the course of like one or two weekends,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: or this over the course of the entire year and
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: what specifically did all you end up putting in place? Sure, um,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: it ended up being it was a considerable amount of work,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: but it didn't um, you know, it didn't envelope a
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: ton of time. It's certainly enveloped much of I mean
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I talked to Eric and then often not daily, but
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: often um in you know, April, May and June certainly,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: and actually March, April, May and June, because we did
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the majority of our cutting. We had a warm March
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: here last year, so Ben and I and and Eric
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: were able to get in and and um and we
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to cause some disruption. Right, I'm not gonna sit
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: here and tell you that, you know, Eric did help
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: us lay out and map out exactly where we wanted
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: to cut with the chainsaws and everything that we've done
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: so far, I've been incredibly happy with. I can't tell
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: you that I'm wrapping up like twenty years study on
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: this because you know, I'm going into my second summer
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: now where we've actually altered things. But we wanted there
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: is literally a sea a secondary girls trees right literally
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: of having um, you know, having three trunks that were
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: two feet around down two four inches around and just
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: an absolute see of them. Like if I told you
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: to run in a straight line of stats that you could,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: you couldn't because you'd kill yourself. You know what I mean.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: It's just literally a wall. So we wanted to create
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: some sort of disruption and and open up that canopy
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to get some secondary girls. And it was great because
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I went in there with Ben and we did a
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: bunch of cutting and everything has kind of worked out
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: exactly how we wanted to. But it was also great
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: because Eric came back after we did a bunch of
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: cutting and he came in the woodard us and he's like,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: you guys did a great job, but you did it wrong.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And we're like, okay, well, uh, this is fantastic to
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: know because we were sitting there at high five and
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: fatting ourselves on the back all the way back to
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: the truck. We're a sandwich, so this is awesome going
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and and basically it was like, you didn't do it wrong,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: but you did. Basically, we did a bunch of hinge
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: cutting and we did a bunch of true cutting. I
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's really a term, but I'm gonna
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: make it up. We did a bunch of true cutting,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: but we didn't dismember these trees well enough and dropped
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: them down all the way to the fourth floor so
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: that we could get really good growth coming up. We
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: basically just dropped their canopies down to the ground. They
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: still ate up sunlight, they still consumed ground. So we
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: went in there a second time and clean them up
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: even more. Once we had Eric's direction where he came
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: in and you know, it's kind of funny because you know,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: we're sitting there like the protege like looking at him
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and looking at the spot and looking at him and
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: going what do you think? And he's like rubbing his
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: chin on and you know, you know it's bad and
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: he's rubbing and saying goes, well, you know, I mean
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: you did a good job, and you're like, trap, here
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: we go and he's like yeah. So we did the
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: cutting and we knew like and I think we're even
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: gonna do more cutting this spring. Um. And then we
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: took the twenty seven acres. And I'll be honest with
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: I think Eric will admit this to Ben will admit this.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I'm still per plats. I'm still sitting scratching my head.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: But we took the twenty seven acre's this open palette.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: We could do whatever we wanted, and we made an
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: idea of where we wanted to plant grasses, where we
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: wanted to plant food, and kind of how the deer
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: might move and how some of the other animals, both
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: game species like pheasants and grouse, turkeys and also non
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: game species would kind of move and utilize the property.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: And so um, you know, we made the best gas
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: and we went in there. We ended up planting I
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: think eleven or twelve acres of switch grass, and then
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: we planted some sorghum um, some soybeans, and then we
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: planted a few other areas with you know, different different
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: um cultures of our different different clusters of you know,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: brassicas and radishes and things like that, things that would
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: give because we have harsh winters here, so we wanted, um,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: the deer and the turkeys. We wanted these animals to have,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: these larger animals to have lay season food source. And
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: it's actually amazing the other animals that I'm seeing feeding
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: on them now. But you know, we laid everything out,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: we made our best you know, not not I'm not
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: going to say our best lay plan. We made a plan,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: because when you do this stuff, you know, you have
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: to sling some crap against the wall. Right. We don't
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: anyone that's gonna sit there and tell you, Okay, this
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: is exactly how I'd laid the thought, and this is
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: exactly how it's gonna go. And this this, this is
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: going to be profession is lying to your face. Right.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: You have to try and adjust, try and adjust, try
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: and adjust. And so we tried last year. Um, and
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: then we took our information and then now you know,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: this spring, we'll make some adjustments for sure, but um,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: but that's essentially what we implemented was eleven acres of
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: warm season grasses strategically throughout the property, most of them
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: hugging the the edge of the fours um and creating
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: some travel quotaurs for the deer. And then um, and
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: then we planned to the bean field that we left,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: We planned to the sorghan field that we left, and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: then and then some of the green plots and stuff
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: for the deer to utilize now now that it's freezing
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: cold and there's snow. Yeah, So when you decided to,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: you know, do all of this work on this property,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: and especially when you were talking about planning some of
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: these grasses and some of this food. You mentioned something
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: about grouse and turkeys, but was your main focus on
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: white tails or were you trying to better this property
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: for an overall game habitat, for overall game habitat and
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: and non game species. And I mean, I mean that sincessarily.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Like I started hunting the property when Eric came and
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: met with me um and ben les here and and
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: you know, said what are your goals? And I said,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: I really want to create a habitat here. I mean
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: definitely was interested in the white tile deer in the
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: wild turkey. I very much enjoy hunting both of them.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I very much enjoy hunting healthy populations and healthy age
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: class of both those animals. And so I wanted to
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: create a habitat a property that these animals called safe
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: at that they weren't being over hunted at, and they
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: could get some actually get some refuge from my neighbors.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Because this is Wisconsin, right there's hunted very heavily, reffal
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: season muggled or season archery season. So I wanted it
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: all encompassing. But I told Eric right away, like the
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: first day, he said, well, what are your goals? And
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I said, well, this may sound silly, and I'm sure
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: you don't ever hear this from other clients, but I've
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: been on this property now for a few years. I've
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: never seen a snake on this property. I know that
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: sounds silly, but with all the times of walking through
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: these fields, all the times they're walking through these woods,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: and I have a few crick bottoms, and like, I've
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: never seen a turtle. I've not seen a box turtle.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I've seen a few frogs, and I have never seen
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: a snake. And um, and He's like, Okay, I totally
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: get that. And so it's not that I was trying
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: to create a property that's crawling with snakes, although I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: would love that. I was trying to create a property
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: that all of these animals. I wanted to elevate the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: entire property so that you know, the songbirds are doing better.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: The grouse, like I would um every spring when I
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: was hunting turkeys, that here a couple of grows, drumming.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: That's it. This year now, since planting some of this
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: food and adjusting some of the cover and getting some
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: of the grasses near the field edge, I mean I've
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: averaged of you know, I flushed like four to six
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: grouse every time I've went out there, which is fantastic
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: to see. Now, did I create more grouse? Absolutely not.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: All I did was pulled grows from my neighbors or
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: pull grouse centrally to utilize the food and habit that
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: that I planted. But in the long run, this is
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: definitely going to you know, this will bump off the
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: grouse habitat. But it was a total ecosystem change that
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do with an emphasis on the white
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: to thea right. If I wasn't a deer hunter, I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: probably would have put in even more grasses and and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: did even more betting and try to increase some natural
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: browsing different things like that if I didn't want to,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: if I didn't want to hunt the deer and I
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: didn't want them to to reside on the properties, that
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: make sense, ye, sure. So, so Dan planted his first
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: food plot this year. And I've been planning and doing
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: different habitat management type projects for probably five or six
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: or seven years now. And we were just talking a
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: little while ago about this kind of intangible feeling of
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: accomplishment or something special about doing this kind of work
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and giving back to the wildlife and and and that
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: little piece of ground there you're working on. Did you
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: feel at all after doing these projects and now that
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: you're kind of interacting with this landscape in a different way,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: you know what? It's absolutely I mean, you know, get
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: tremendous value in watching, you know, sitting in a tree
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: stand or in the ground blind or even just um
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: being out there and glassing and seeing you know, a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: big fat dough come out of the woods with two
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: fonds and they're out there cooker in their town. They're
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: running around like mad men and they're eating. And you know,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: you're watching these plants that you planted, that you purchased.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Right this is expensive, you know, and and a lot
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: of work went into this. Consulting Ben consulting, Eric, we
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: we we got all of our seeds from a company. UM.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever worked with
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of Merit seed in Ohio? I have
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: have not? Okay, so Merit seed n e R I
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: T just put it in the back of your brains.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: There's a guy there named John, There's a wildlife genius.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And I would call John like when I couldn't get
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: ahold of Eric, or Eric would call it John, their friends.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: They worked together all the time. But I would call
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: him and talk to him about all these different plants
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: and seedings, and and he's just a wildlife freak. He
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: just loved growing wild life. So, you know, consulting all
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: these different gentlemen, buying the seed, buying all these different
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: things that go into the property, and then actually seeing it.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: And I actually seen the animals utilizing it, actually seeing
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: them hoping they're gonna have not such a harsh winter
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: and hopefully they're gonna grow big and strong and fulfill
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: their lives. Only a couple of them are gonna potentially
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: get killed by my bow or a friend's arrow. And uh,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: but the value, the value of seeing it and the
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: value value of experiencing it is tremendous, tremendous. I just
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: went out there the other day two weeks ago. Maybe
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: I've never seen a pheasant on the property ever, never,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: ever have I seen a pheasant, And just naturally walking
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: through there's I have an old growth field that I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: just left as it is. It's all golden rod and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and grasses and some shrubbery. Some of those are dog
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: with things. Again, I walked through there. Um I flushed.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: I flushed six hens and three roosters. I've never seen
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: a pasant on the property. It's just just cool seeing it,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just fantastic seeing I saw several snakes
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: this summer. I saw a box turtle, like you know,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just cool to see these things. And again,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I don't have this delusion that we have changed the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: world in a single year, but I know we've made
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: some enhancement that have made these animals move in um,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: and it's just really cool. It's it's really cool to
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: see and and and feel. And I know, I remember
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I made a comment to you at our last podcast
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: where I said, and I don't have any bucks anymore.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: You remember that, Yeah, And so it's funny because I
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: had a couple of people write me and say, oh
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: my god, like you got rid of your box and
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: oh my god, like this Eric guy got rid of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: your box. And I just thought, oh my god, No,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that people think that we have the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: ability too, you know, grow white tailed deer or two
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: produce whitetailed deer in a fashion of if you you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: if you're hiring a white tail manager to come on
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: your property. I'm sure you guys know this. I hope
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: you know this. But if you're hiring a white tulp
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: property to come onto your land and and alter your land,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: and suddenly there's gonna be a hundred sixty d sev
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: deer running all around and you have to work less too,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: um shoot big giant box old boxing, and this is
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: why you're doing it, then I think you're doing it
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: for a tremendously wrong reason. And and I think that
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: you're gonna probably be greatly disappointed in that wildlife manager's
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: ability to turn your property into shang rulat what what
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: you're paying for? This is in my mind's diet, what
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: you're paying for. It is, well, this is how I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: think about it. You're paying for that wallet man, your
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: failures and sample set, his data set that's in his head.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Like Eric has set up a billion more properties than
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I have, He's failed as setting up a billion more
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: properties than I have. Because anything that any of us do.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: You know, if he wanted to make a film, if
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: he attempted to make a hunting film, I'm sure that thing.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: I'm positive his first hunting film would be not good.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: And if you would have come to me. I could say, hey,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: look at if you did these three things here, I
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: made these same mistakes. You know. It's just like we
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: do anything in life. But um I had some people
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: right and you're like, oh my god, he got rid
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: of your box and just made me laugh. It's like, no,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: he didn't get rid of my box. My box probably
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: got shot, not my box. Can you even I can't
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: believe I'm even saying this. The boss probably probably got
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't Disney, probably got shot by my neighbors,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: or moved over to another neighbor who planted a field
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: and didn't harvest it because it was too wet or whatever. Like.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: These animals are free to move throughout their range. And
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I actually found it quite comical that, Um, I had
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: several bucks the year before, and then I went in
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: and then we did all this work, and then this
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: year I'm sitting They're going, it's not funny. We spent
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: all this money, did all this work, all this blood,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: sweat and tears, and and I'm seeing less dear less, mature,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: antler deer than I was the year before. Fast forward
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: to right now. So we we did that podcast in November.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Did that song right or was that December? I think
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: it was late November, Okay, so I think it was beginning. Yeah,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: I think it right because the beginning of December um
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: and actually made me chuckle because I went out there. Um,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I had been out of property a long time. I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: checked my cameras and boom, I had like five or
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: six big deer that I've never seen before, and now
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: they're residing on my place. How they got there, I
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: don't know, But I created the type of haboitcat that
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: makes it very welcoming in the late season. Will they
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: stay next year? Wud else? I don't care. But I
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: just want to do better things for my property, do
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: better things through my neighborhood. Do I care if my
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: neighbor shoots a big buck that lives on my property.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I just want everything in the area to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: get better. And so it's it's very rewarding. It's tremendously rewarding.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: But if you're chasing big deer, um, you might end
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: up being disappointed at the end of the road, at
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: the end of the journey. Yeah. And it's a process.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: It's a process. And to your point, if all you're
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: concerned about is the eventual outcome or whatever your outcome
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: in your head is, You're gonna be very disappointed if
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: you aren't also enjoying the process and the fact that
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: it takes time and takes work, and that stuff has
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: value in and of itself. So and it will never
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: live up to your expectations, right, it will never ever
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Even if you kill a one eight, then what next
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: year you want a one ninety? Like That's that's not
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: how to go about this thing. I think if you
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: change habitat more than dear, you're gonna come out winning
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: on all sides. So so on this, on this kind
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: of topic, we talked well, whenever it was late November
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: early December we last talked. You talked about the fact
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: that you had read Elder Leopold's Book of Sand County
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: Almanac a number of times. I think you maybe even
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: said that you you try to read it once a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: year or something like that, and um, I picked it
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: up again recently and was looking at it again recently.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: And a lot of this stuff we're talking about now,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: you know, giving back to a property or conservation, whether
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: it being a small personal scale or a big public
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: land scale. It's got me thinking a lot about the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: land ethic that Leopold talked about in his book, and
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to pick your brain about that
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: land ethic we've never talked about in the podcast before
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: for people. But I think people hear the name, although
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: Leopold a lot here has kind of float that name
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: out there, but maybe people don't really know what he
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: was suggesting, what he was recommending and how that maybe
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: has has kind of changed the path of the conservation
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: movement to a degree here in the last fifty years
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: or so. So if you guys will indulge me for
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: a quick second here for those that haven't read the book,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to read a passage here real quick,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: and then I wanted to get your your thoughts on it.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Donning so excuse my poor reading skills if I fumble here,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: but but real quick from a sand County element, I
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: want to quote this right here. Although said that all
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: ethics so far evolved rest upon a single premise that
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: the individual is a member of a community of interdependent parts.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: His instincts prompt him to compete for his place in
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: that community, but his ethics prompted him also to cooperate,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: perhaps in order that there may be a place to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: compete for. The land ethic simply enlarges the boundaries of
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: the community to include soils, waters, plants, and animals, or
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: collectively the land. This sounds simple. Do we not already
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: sing our love for and the obligation to the land
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: of the free and the home of the brave? Yes?
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: But just what in whom do we love? Certainly not
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: the soil which we're sending helter skelter downriver. Certainly, not
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: the waters, which we assume have no function function except
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: to turn turboines, float barges, and care off sewage. Certainly,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: not the plants of which we exterminate whole communities without
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: batting an eye. Certainly not of the animals of which
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: we have already extirpated many of the largest and most
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: beautiful species. A land, I think, of course, cannot prevent
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: the alteration, management, and use of these resources. But it
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: does affirm the right to continued existence, and, at least
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: in spots, their continued existence in a natural state. In short,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: a land ethic changes the role of Homo sapiens from
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: conquer of the land community to plane member and citizen
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: of it. It implies respect for his fellow members and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: also respect for the community as such. So Downny there
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: is a brief snapshot of what Eldo Leopold was talking
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: about when he said that we need to have this
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: this land ethic. What what does that mean to you?
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: How do you interpret those words from Eldo and how
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: has that kind of been played out through your life? Maybe?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Wells Um, you know it's in a word, it's harmony, right, Um.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: In a word, he describes that we're not here, and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: you can you can hear it in his writing. Um,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: you know we're not here. Um. To use everything. Having
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: a renewable resource doesn't mean that you use it beyond
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: belief for selfish reasons to make your life better, your
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: life easier, and to propel the mechanized world and and
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: make your you know, your day, Uh, you know, less busy,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: less full of hard work. Um. It's it's much more
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: about you existing within the land and contributing as much
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: as you're taking and and being being one with the land. Right.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: It's it's um, he's absolutely absolutely. You can catch and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: keep a fish and enjoy a fish for dinner. You
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: can shoot a dock and shoot a deer and um,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and you can cut trees down, but certainly all of it,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: whether you're killing a deer or planting a tree or
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: cutting a tree down, um, all of it has to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: be done with great wherewithal on what your contribution is
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: and what you're taking away from the resource, and how
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: you're belonging in the resource, not dominating the resource, belonging
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: in the resource, and so um in my life it
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: has been you know, I had to learn these things.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: Obviously I didn't have this in not genius enough for
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: at all to have this in my mind as a
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: young man. So as I learned these principles, things that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: we're stirring in the back of my mind started to
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: make sense. Uh. You know, when I was coming when
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I had encounters with grizzly bears, or I had encounters
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: with different animals and different situations in my life, I
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: really appreciated them and and wasn't I just wasn't always
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: this um for lack of a better term, bloodthirsty hunter.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: It wasn't. I just didn't want to just um kill
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: as much as I could and take away from the
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: land as much as I could. When I was in
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: these places, I wanted to envelope myself into the place
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: as much as I could exist with the wildlife, with
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: the fishes, with the plant as much as I could
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: and participate in the present. And I didn't. Again, I
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: didn't know any of the stuff. And then I started
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: reading his writings and some other writings and some other
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: um conservationists and the hunters, that I started to realize
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: that that that's where I was getting. I had some
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: similar concepts in my head that that they were lining out.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: And of course he's a beautiful, brilliant writer, and he
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: had tremendous respect for the smallest pieces of land, and
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: one of the things he also had that I have
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: no idea how he accomplished this, but he had a
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: fantastic idea of the history of the land. And maybe
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: it was easier back then, maybe there were such significant
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: events that went on and there was such a small
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: human population that you could really put your finger down
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: on timelines and really lay it out. But he literally
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: has such a mental timeline, such a date book in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: his head of when things happened and how big changes
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: happened and why they happened. And like he's talking about
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: the extirpation of these major animals, well, that's all of
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that is from overuse from human beings. Everything that he
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: listed off, everything, the commonality, the one commonality is the
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: human being. And um, we're the ones that create overuse.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: We're the ones that are burning down entire pastures for
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: you know, what he quotes is no particular reason. Um,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: someone else, you know, the rancher, if you will, just
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: picking this out. But the rancher might think he has
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: a tremendous reason. I have to create more brows from
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: my cows. Um, and this is how this all works.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: But for him, he's saying, there's there's a way to
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: do this in harmony, and can you do with eight
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: billion people on the globe. Absolutely not. So we've had
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: to make we've had to make up you know, adjustments
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: all along the way. And that's where you start to
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: have these extirpations of animals, right when you when you
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: realize that, you know, Minnesota used to have woodland carible
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: in it. Why doesn't have littleland caribou in it anymore?
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Because the white tail deer pushed them out, Because the
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: white til deer started become more successful, because the different
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: edges that were being created. You know, people talk about
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: back in the day, but there were so few white
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: deil beer that if you saw one, you told everyone
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: in town about it. And now we have them everywhere,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: and people think, oh my god, we're doing such amazing
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: things with management. We now have deer everywhere, But people
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: don't realize that this animal has become incredibly abundant because
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: of the changes that we've done to the landscape, the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: force we've cut down, the fields that we've burned, the
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: fires that we've stopped when they needed to burn, and
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: thus these animals become overpopulated. And you can cheer about
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: this and think you're the champion of bringing these animals
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: to a greater population, but it really wasn't meant to
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: be right. These animals thrived in a smaller population in
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: a big forest. And I'm just using this as a
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: single example, as people you know, are fixated on deer,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: fixated on this type of movement. But you see what
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. There was a there was a harmony with
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: each thing that we do. We are creating way more
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: disruption than we are harmony. And I think that's where
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: he really lived with his ideas. That's why his writing
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: is so beautiful and so eloquent because you can see
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: in his heart and in his words that he wanted
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: that harmony. And when you read about it and see it,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: whether he's cutting down a dead tree or cutting up
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: a dead tree, or catching a trout and putting in
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: his creole, everything was done with tremendous wherewithal and it's
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: it's a really fantastic notion to belong to. Yeah, yeah, agree. So,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: so Elda wrote this back in the forties, I think
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: late forties or early fifties, and so he had these
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: ideas and he was, you know, talking about this given
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: the context of that time period and the impacts that
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: have already been seeing at that timp here. But now
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: fast forward, you know, sixty five years or whatever has
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: been now when you're looking at the world we live
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: in today and the situation we have with wildlife and land,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: do you how do you feel about this concept of
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: the land ethic that although you know, recommended or hope
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: described us to have we have we do you think
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: we put that into play or do you see that
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: we have not been able to find a land ethic
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: from your perspective, No, there's there's no land ethic anymore. Um,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: that's that ship has sailed. That's why, UM, I think,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: I think so. I'm truly not smart enough to understand
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: the variables UM around it in all the difference UM,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: society and human interests that come into play. But UM,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: there are definitely, certainly individuals, certainly organizations, and certainly areas
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: of the world that are chasing this harmony and try
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: to live in such harmony. But you know, by and
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: large we have thrown that any sort of land epic
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: out the window. And that's why you know myself, UM,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: that's why I I chase off to these places, right,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: That's why I love going to the Arctic Circle because
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: while it's not the same unic circle that was there
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: in n I still get to look around and watch
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: caribou migrate, watch wolves hunt, and and watch grizzy beerris
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: deep blueberries and big for the ground squirrels and I
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: And that's why I celebrate the same fact of going
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: and slipping into a tree stand or a ground blind
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: or even off to the lease, because I might bump
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: into a garter snake and I might plush it as
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: an or see a deer, or see the black eyed
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: Susans in full bloom, and just for that split second,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: which is very important to me, just to let split second.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: I kind of am experiencing an alleged harmony, right, I'm
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: convincing my off that I'm in the woods. I'm outside. Um.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Our lives are finite. The clock is ticking. I might
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: die in my truck tonight on my way along. I
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: might I might get killed in a car, I said,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: when we get off the phone with this, So I'm
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: going to try to live the life. You're to live
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: your life like you're dying. Is is a foolish concept.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: It's a fantastic idea, but none of us can actually
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: do it. But anytime you can steal away one of
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: those seconds or a moment or the present in the outdoors,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: I really think that you've conquered that that realm of
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: wanting to live in the moment. And for me, all
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: those little things are my little personal land ethic. Right.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: If I sit in my office and think about eight
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: billion people, If I think about the Internet, Facebook, social media, Instagram,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: the elections, all the freaking nuts, so I try not
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to any of it, um, and I
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: try to just go all I try to just go
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: about my life. If I could spend time in the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: wild places that I want to be and be with
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: my friends and be with my family because it's very
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: important to me. But I can share my life with
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: the wildlife. And that's greaty as it sounds and business like,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: is this sounds if I could do that stuff and
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: create films that that people really enjoy to see. If
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: if you can't get to the Autic circle, but I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: can show you some sites from the Arctic circle. It
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: really gives you goose bumps or makes you well up
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: inside with your mind, or sit in the theater and
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: and maybe kind of forget that your mouth is wide
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: open or that you're even supposed to be breathing right now.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Like that's the stuff that I really love, is trying
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: to trying to celebrate this stuff through film. And you know,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: sometimes we're successful. Sometimes we fell so visibly it's not
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: even funny. Um, but that's that's Those are the little
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: times that I try to steal away myself, right I don't,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: I don't, Um, I just that that's hunting for me,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: that's hunting everything for me, and and um, there's a
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: lot of hunting that's going on right now that's not
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: for me, and I don't even care to talk about it.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: But that harmony that Aldo wrote about, um, that's what
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: I want to chase the rest of my life. Yeah.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: So so for those people that that that resonates with,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: for other people out there right now that this whole
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: idea resonates with. But to your point, if you sit
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: and you look on the web, you know, if you
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: look on the web, or if you watch the news
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: or anything, I think you know, continue with Eldo quotes.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: He had some kind of he mentioned something in the
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: lines of like the curse of having an education in
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: ecology is the fact that you will forever live in
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: a world with a million wounds, or with your eyes
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: open to a world of a million wounds, you know,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: saying that when you start paying attention to the things
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: going on to the land, to wildlife, to the environment,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: you all of a sudden open your eyes up to
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: just so many things that are going wrong, and it
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: can be like disheartening, it can be depressing. I'll sit
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: here and then the more I've started paying attention to this,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: the more it's like, oh my gosh, it almost seems
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: like insurmountable, Like how can we stop some of this stuff?
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: How can we make a positive difference, you know, how
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: can we create a world where there is some type
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: of land ethic. I mean when when you sit and
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: think about that stuff, what what is the answer? I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: mean for someone listening, what is the answer for that person?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: How can we all build a little bit of this
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: land ethic in our own world? You have to contribute, right,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: you have to do the best you um Like, um,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: for instance, I'll talk about something so so, for instance,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: you have a quarter of an acre next to your house.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: It's just Kentucky blue grass. It's grass that you every
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: Saturday morning you get up and mow that thing, and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, you sit on the riding on more.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: You push your riding on more half hoping that a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: sniper's bullet catches you on the forehead before you finish.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: But what if you took that little strip of land
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: and planted, you know, grasses. What if you just said,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: you know, like this summer, I'm gonna have a project.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill this up. I'm gonna kill this Kentucky
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: blue grass. I'm gonna plant grasses, or I'm gonna plant
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: a little stand of of pine trees or whatever it is. Um,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: and you create a little strip of habitat next year house.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: You know, is that going to do anything ecologically towards harmony. No,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: but it's going to do a little tiny bit to
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: the animals that are in your neighborhood. Is going to
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: do a little tiny bit to the animals that live
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: around your house, to your intrinsic value of your own home,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: because you'll see butterflies and you know, you know, you
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: go out there, your son or your daughter and you're
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: gonna see different song birds utilizing the grasses and you
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: were seeing before and and even catching one of the
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: glimpses of them, or experiencing just having some dichotomy in
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: your life rather than just mowing that lawn. Is uh,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: you know, that's that's taking a step in the right direction.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we just have to go
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: if you take a look around and you see all
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: the ecological wounds of living with your eyes wide open,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: like Algo says, you know, you can chase yourself into
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: disgust and despair, but really, um, you just have to
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: try to be better. You make better decisions and and
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: do everything that you can to try to perpetuate good
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: And you should hunt the same way. Um. You know,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: if you're hunting for um, a four bowl elk, and
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: you could care less how you do it, or you
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: could care less the things that you see along the way.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: You just want to get this animal balance so you
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: can snap some photos of it to throw it up
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: on Instagram so all your friends can say what a
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: badass you are. Um, that's just gross. It's just not
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: It's just not the same hunting that that I think about.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: And we've all fallen victim to it. We've all chased
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: the big animals. We've all um lost their way at times,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: that's for certain. But I think you just have to
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: do little things. You have to chase the good. You
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: have to be better than you are right now and
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: just constantly try to make you know, make changes. I'm
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: gonna do that to this you know, do that to
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: this hunting least that I'm working on. I'm just going
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: to try to make it better. Is me changing that
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: twenty seven acre field going to do anything to the
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: ecology of that neighborhood? Probably not. Um, it might do
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: some really good little things. UM, I don't know. Maybe
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: it's gonna have a greater impact than I think it is. UM,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. But I'm gonna try to just
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: keep keep focusing on the good and keep trying to
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: do good things. We we just so many people on
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: the globe right now that it's just really hard to
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: find some alone time and and some wilderness space and people.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's um. It's one of the things
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: that drives me most nuts about um. Anti hunters or
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: non hunters that try to celebrate untouched ecology. They're just
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: absolute fools about it. And it drives me bananas that
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: you think, if we stop killing wolves, or if we
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: never hunt grizzly bears, or if we um, I can't
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: even think of some of the idiotic things that some
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: of these people come up with. But if we if
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: we chase some of these things, um, and you think
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: that things are going to perpetuate into shangra law, are
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: going to perpetuate into the the happy place that that
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Walt Disney creates in his sketches and in his art, Um,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely nuts. And it's to go the same goals
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: for hunters guys that you know, I see guys with
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: stickers on the truck to say smoke a packet day,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: you know, shoot all the wolves you can. It's just
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: as foolish if you think that you're gonna do if
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: you think you're going to come in and change ecology
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: and change a particular area or spot by killing all
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: the wolves, are killing all of the coyotes, You're you're
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: a fool. You're an absolute fool. Are there places that
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: wolves need to be killed? Absolutely? Are the places where
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: kyles need to be killed. Absolutely. There's also places where
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: deer have to be killed, and where you know, species
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: of trout need to be killed out of a stream,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: or microbes that are killing the trout or plants. There's
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: lots of imbalance. But celebrating any of those with absolute certainty,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: um just points out to me that you're clear cut
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: a fool. Absolutely, if you think you things can be
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: reduced to a single variable and that you're going to
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: have an impact with your rifle a foolish. It all
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: comes back down to that concept of harmony, right we
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: That's like we have indelibly left our mark, you know,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: human beings on this earth. We've left a mark that
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: can't be taken off unfortunately or fortunately however you choose
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: to look at it. And because of that, there is
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: a can right, there's a chance once we all die
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: off and we had to restart point we you, you
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: and I won't be here to see it, but it
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: will happen, right true, in the in then more near
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: term future, though at least like that. There's no way
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: to wholly remove our influence on ecosystems and everything. That's
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: all we can try to do is as best as possible,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: find some means of harmony and balance. But but that's
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: the challenge. And to your point, I think anytime you
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: try to skew that balance in the favor of one
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: person or group's interests. You know, when you say, well,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: we don't care about X animal because we just want
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of why I mean, you know, to the
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: to the example you've shared, predators. I think that this
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: is a dangerous thing sometimes that we as hunters get
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: into when we worry about our competition. Understandably, there needs
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: to be balanced, but at the same time, the idea
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: of eliminating predators completely just because we want tons and
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: tons and tons of tons of deer, will you lose
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: that harmony there too, And then what what you're left
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: with is not a holy harmonious ecosystem. And it is
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: not natural and you lose something there too, And I think, UM,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: we've got to be careful to to know that, yes
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: we need, we have to have a piece apart in
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: this whole system. But at the same time there has
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: to be balanced to m HM and certainly live you know,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: live your life, find your harmony, find find your interactions.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: You know. A few years ago, I was in the
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Arctic Circle and I happened to be fortunate enough to
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: um get surrounded by a pack of wolves, and UM,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: could I have shot one? Absolutely how a wolf tag
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: in my pocket there were ten yards away from me,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: had my bow. Um, I chose not to shoot one.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: I just did not want to shoot a wolf. Did
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: not want to shoot a wolf in that instance. I
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: didn't want to shoot a wolf on that trip. Right then,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: I was hunting moose. Fast forward a year, another gentleman
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: that I know that was hunting the same region. He
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: went in there with his hunting partner, and they shot
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: two of those same wolves out of that pack. Um
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: that had surrounded me. Either one of us was right
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: or wrong. I did not choose to shoot a wolf.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: It was not um what I wanted to do. UM.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: He chose to shoot two wolves. That area has a
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: healthy population of wolves, that pack is a healthy population
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: of wolves, and he shot two adults out of the pack.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: M is the packing to feel it, absolutely is the
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: packing to recover. Absolutely. You know, both of us lived
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: on lives, Both of us lived in the harmony that
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: we wanted to be in in that area, UM, and
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: both of us had a different experience, but neither neither
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: one of them was right or wrong. Yeah, yeah, very true.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: So I kinda want to wrap this up down we can.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: I could talk about this stuff for for really very
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: long time, and there's a lot we haven't touched on
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: that I would like to talk to you about, but
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: but we do need to wrap it up. UM. I
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: want I want to kind of get your final thoughts
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: though on the message that you want to leave with people.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, when Donnie Vincent is dead and gone someday
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: and you've done your work, what message do you want
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: to have left hunters or people anyone who's seen your
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: work or been influenced by you. What is that thing
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: or concept or idea or message that you hope will
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: be left to those people. You know, it's very very
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: similar to all those message and that UM, as as
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: I went through my life filming and writing and just
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: experiencing and being in wild places either by myself are
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: with people, that UM, I've really chased that harmony and
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: it's more and more every day. And I don't know
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: if it's because I'm getting older and wiser and more aware, UM,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: but that's that's exactly what I want people to, um,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: to hang their hats on. Is that. UM. The way
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: I hunted off camera or on camera is the same
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: for me and my interactions with wildlife and habitat and
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: just being present with in wild places with just UM,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: I try to go forth every time with harmony. Obviously, UH,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: it's not always perfect, um, but but it's it's it's
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: where I really enjoy it's where I really enjoy living,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: and it's it's how I really enjoy interacting and and UM,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: you know that's basically and I mean that that book
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: means so much to me. Is writing means so much
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: to me. It's I can't articulate as well as he
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: can not, not nearly in his writings, but so much
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: of his words ring true to how I live my
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: life and want to continue to live my life. From
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: here on out. Yeah, I can say the same things too.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: There's really a lot there to be um to be digested.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: And from what I from what I've seen from the
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: work down, you think you're well on your way to
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: to communicating that message as well. So I appreciate that.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: I appreciate what you're doing. And uh, and hopefully we'll
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: we'll see plenty more in the future. Thanks, man. I
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: really appreciate the time to talk. It's uh. I really
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: enjoy speaking with you, gentlemen. Yeah, and I gotta say
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Dan actually had to drop off the phone call. As
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: our listeners know, sometimes he has baby issues and he
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: had one of those right now. So so Dan is
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: attending to the family. But but from both of us,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: t Yeah, from both of us though, thank you so much,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: and uh, we'll hopefully talk to you again soon. I
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. Mark, thank you. And there you have it.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: Another episode is in the books. And as we said before,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: if you haven't gotten to check out Elderlyopold Sand County Almanac,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: pick up a copy and give it a shot. You
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: know what it's It's amittately a little bit dense at times.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: It's not one of those quick, easy fund reads necessarily,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: but if you're reading little bits and take it over
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: time and kind of chew on it, I do think
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: you'll find something very valuable there. So moving on, I
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: want to thank any and all of you who have
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: left reviews all this podcast on iTunes. That's been such
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: a big help over the years, and I appreciate that
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: feedback so much. I just want to take an extra
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: second to to call all of you out and thank you.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: And I also want to thank our partners who have
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: helped to keep this podcast on the air. Big thanks
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: to Sick Gear, Redneck Blinds, hunter a Maps, Yetie Coolers, Ozonics,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: Carbon Express, Maven Optics, and the White Tailed Institute of
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: North America. And finally, thank you for being with us today.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: I hope you were able to stick with us on
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: this one as we've kind of weaved our way through
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: these topics of conservation and giving back and having a
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: land ethic. I know, you know that's not always as
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: exciting or entertaining as talking about new strategies and hunting
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: stories and all that good stuff, but but ultimately I
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: do think it's just as important, if not more so.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: So I thank you for being a part of this
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: ongoing conversation that we've been having over these past few years,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: and finally, until next time, thank you all and stay
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: wired to hunt.