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She Told Luke Combs to Walk Away From $13 Million · The Stephan Hogan Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Coming on podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Darius Rucker.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Salt of the earth.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: You guys have this relationship.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of grow up together.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: You go to school together.
• 0:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're a little bit, they're a few years older than me.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: But this is like your indoctrination into the business.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the opening door.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So their management team at the time had an office in Columbia.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a slew of us in and out of there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, as an intern, which I think still probably holds true to this day with any management company, it was a lot of the merchandise slinging merchandise, as they say at the time.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Although when I was doing it, I was still taking credit cards over the phone.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Were you packaging?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Packaging, all the stuff.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the day that I started was the day they played the first time they played David Letterman when he was like over the moon about them.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they flew home that afternoon from doing the David Letterman show and played like a you know hometown show that night, and that was my first day.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's nuts.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like how did you feel?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, scared, um, but joyful.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it was it was intense, but those guys What was the scariest part?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just not wanting to mess up, not wanting to be in the way, just um I think something that also holds true is days that you just gotta be a good hang to a degree.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta kind of know when to lean in and when to not.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I think I probably requested a song that night, and they were like, don't be requesting songs when the band's, you know.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I ended up driving Darius downtown.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like he didn't want to wait for the bus.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up driving him downtown.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's just like I just had a lot of responsibility very early on, which was great.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they trusted me with that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, their manager at the time, Rusty Harmon, uh, we were recently at church together.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: He lives in Brentwood.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we go to Stonebridge, Bible, and um, and they started doing the Saturday service because there's so many people wanting to go there now.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a young pastor from California who is just lovely.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um represent.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I met Rusty's uh wife.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I had not met her and her their daughter and Levi and I, and I just I said, This is how I know the Lord is here, is that you and I are sitting here and have known each other since 1994.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he was telling my mom, he was like, Listen, she kept doing a great job, so we just kept giving her more of them.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think we still do that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, look, if you prove that you can do something great, then we're gonna give you more to do and more to do.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So what was the next move from there?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I ended up they had started the Hootie guys started a record label via Atlantic called Breaking Records, which I tried to name my company, and they had literally just sold the URL to someone else.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that name.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know Breaking Records, so cool.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know who has it now, but Riverhouse is where it's at.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great name for the company.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But uh they started a label, so I went over to the label and I started doing AR.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was assistant to the GM who had moved, also moved to Columbia, South Carolina from California.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he had been the day-to-day manager for Stone Temple Pilots.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a little different there from STP to Hootie, but he was running the label and I was assisting him.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was also doing AR.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are doing AR, and then someone realizes that you're doing it, and then you start getting paid for it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I've always described it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was out every night seeing bands, had a lot of relationships with regional bands that were touring at the time.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So was being told, like, hey, we want you to do AR like that moment, or was it like was it a response?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is I've seen people's careers in the music business and talking about being in the mail room to whatever.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's always like these steps.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes they're forward and sometimes they're backwards, but absolutely a lot of steps.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so did that feel like a big step up for you or were it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I was still an assistant at the time, but I, you know, having the ab the fact that people would listen to what I had to say, I guess, is a huge, is definitely a great feeling that they trusted me with that opinion about music.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Was that earned?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think so, yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for sure, but and this again kind of culminates into Riverhouse and the model that I brought with me into Nashville or into country music was always the fans first because that's how Hootie did it out there one by one.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, that's eventually how the Zeit Brown band was doing it.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I would see a lot of talent early on in a bar when I would see them play to two people and then 20 and then 200 because they were doing that circuit.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I was there early.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, other people were too, but I just happened to have access, I guess, to the industry or two people that could help elevate that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've ever really put it that way.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that makes sense, you know.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so I I started bringing in bands that started being successful other places, you know, if we didn't sign them or if these guys didn't sign them, you know, early on, Sister Hazel, who I'm still close with, you know, the Creed guys, I don't know them, but um, and there are other regional bands that I brought into that got record deals that didn't have necessarily the success that some of those bands had.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they could see.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And plus we were getting sent a lot of stuff.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Hootie had such, I mean, they were the biggest band in the world, so we could pitch everything from InSync to 98 degrees to evanescent, you know.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just all over the board.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but obviously that label didn't really didn't really take off.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: The best band to come out of there was Jump Little Children, who are my hometown heroes.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Charleston.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Were they uh at Weasels?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, they were not at Weasels, although the bass player and I were each other's first kiss in elementary school.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's up?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a cool story.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: So very talented.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: AR.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not paid, assistant, but doing AR.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: But but gaining respect and working your butt off.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: You said something important, which is you were out every night.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Every night.
• 6:48
  unknown: Yes.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: To hustle.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I had three jobs my senior year of college, so it was nice when I graduated to just have one job, but it still felt like I had three jobs because I was in the office all day or either on the road with the band or out seeing new bands every night.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, Mark Bryan, the guitar player from Hootie, came up with this great program that they would go do an after show, which again, everybody does now.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, I really feel like he is the one that came up with that idea.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, we can't have every band in the world open for us.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's a band doing great in Gainesville, Florida, like Sister Hazel, well, you can't come open the show, but we'll announce from the stage that we're all going to come see your show after we play.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it become like an official after party, you know, as a way to kind of help new artists come up.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a really cool time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe I'm remembering all these things.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and the interesting thing is the helping too.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was like if our label couldn't help him, someone else helps him.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Which is we'll probably get to it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's one of the things that I've just feel like in Nashville is so special, is the like, if I can't help you, maybe so and so can help you.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: The networking or like the It's the giving.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's the like, I am it's like, how can I help you?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I know by helping you and do what's best for you, that'll be good for both of us.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we'll get to that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what's your next move as we get to w uh starting a company and all of that?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I managed some bands on my own.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: This was um And where did you live at this point?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I moved from Columbia to Atlanta.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was managing a band called Squeeze Box, and they were a ska band.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I called them a rock band with horns.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they wouldn't get labeled a ska band.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Good good pitch.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, good pitch, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they did great numbers touring-wise, and um actually breaking records ended up giving us money to make a record, uh, which was great.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they eventually broke out, they burn out.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as we've been talking about being on the road, and there were like seven of them and a van.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's that's a lot going on.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I eventually wrote Matt Streletic.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know who Matt is?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's a producer.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So he and his brother discovered Rob Thomas and Matchbox 20.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Matt was actually in the band Collective Soul.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you've ever wondered why you see that little Frenchie in every episode of my podcast, it's there for a reason.
• 9:22
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• 9:27
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• 9:30
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• 10:09
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• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So he produced all the Matchbox 20 records.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: He ended up doing the Santana record with Rob Thomas Smooth that won like eight Grammys.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: That was on the that I remember whole not on the radio.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's Matt.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote him a letter.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: He said he was starting his own record company with Clive Davis.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I want to come work for you.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he was from Atlanta.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Well, we're not looking for someone in Atlanta, we're looking for someone in LA.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I'll move to LA.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in 99, um, I moved to Los Angeles and did AR for Matt.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think shortly after uh what's his name?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: LA Reed came in.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: The record label was called Melisma.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we signed a couple cool bands there too.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was only there for a couple of years before Matt became the president of Virgin Records.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we all moved to New York.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So wow.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was uh I'm talking this how how much time do we have?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's been a lot many, many years.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're getting there.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so this is cool.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because we're seeing the progression of your career.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: So LA, two years.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: From 2000 to 2002.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then you see the progression of Matt.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now what's his next role?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like how these things happen.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: So then it's like opportunity, big opportunity, and then brings part of the team or the people that he wants to bring with him to Virgin.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you're like, let's go to New York.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go to New York.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they made me an offer.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I said, let's do it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: How old are you at this point?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Twenty eight.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I turned 30 when I lived in New York.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that was also a very pivotal time.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: The cool thing was, like, well, the hard thing was going to LA to begin with.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, I could tell everybody in the world I worked with Hood and the Bluefish, nobody cared.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that wasn't like the hip happening thing.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then even working with Matt Strolet, I moved to New York.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I work with the biggest producer in the world and nobody cares.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the biggest thing to note going to Atlanta, LA, New York, and then eventually Nashville is that I still had to pound the pavement over and over again.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like anyone was necessarily giving me a leg up or looking at my resume, going, oh, great, you know, but again, we'll get to that.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one cool thing in New York is we started working with um the Christian side of the business, EMI, Virgin was under the EMI umbrella, and there were a bunch of Christian labels doing great things in Franklin.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was down in Franklin, Tennessee a lot working with a young artist named Stacy Arico.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um my wife listened to that nonstop, Stacey.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, yes, well, that that album was a lot of AR done by myself and Dean Surletic Matt's younger brother.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, that that experience, I think, is what eventually got me to Nashville, working with those songwriters, meeting those producers.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um seeing.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: What was your job title?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to interrupt.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, like director of AR.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we see like you doing AR, getting on the album side, not just scouting, not just talent scouting, but actually being in the um AR process.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: All right, cool.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we're looking at the steps, the ladder.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I will, I would, I would love to tell Haley about the song More to Life because that was I fought for that song that ended up being a huge, like a top five single all over the world for her.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was actually written by um uh Lucy Woodward, and she was signed to Atlantic Records at the time, and they didn't want that song for her album.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, please let us have it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she was good friends with Kevin Cadish, who co-wrote a lot of those songs too, who eventually did all about that bass with Megan Traynor.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but back to Stacey, I was like, I really love the song for her, it's such an uplifting um message.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, they gave this on her and it became such a big song, they finally put Lucy's version out after we put ours out.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Some things stay the same.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you turn 30 in New York, yes, as director of AR at Virgin.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: At Virgin Records, yes.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: By here's a question.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So by the time you get there from being a 13-year-old throwing concerts in a field at Weasels back in Charlotte, does it feel do you get there and you're like, man, this feels like such a leap, or is it all these little steps that finally when you get there, you're like, this doesn't feel that crazy because it's happened so slow.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely felt like progress, but it didn't feel crazy.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I knew what I was going to do.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I was one of my the only people that knew.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I graduated with a job and I knew exactly what I was going to do.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was never lost, like, what am I gonna do now?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always knew what I was gonna do.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Along this whole path, what was the thing at the end of the road that you had your eyes fixed on?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, being a publisher, working with songwriters, that was really the goal.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when I turned 30 in New York, um, I actually said, I'm I'm leaving, I'm I'm moving to Nashville.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to move to Nashville and work with songwriters.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was my dream.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest natural high in the world, the best drug in the world is being there when a song is written.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: How you feel the first time you heard that song, and then to see it from that inception to go on a global basis and have everyone in the world feel the way you did when you first heard that song, that's AR to me.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is that was my goal.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the amount of lives that get changed by a song.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: The impact.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: The impact.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I can't imagine being in the car and being like, yeah, that's playing because of me, kind of.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it helped.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: You help, you're part of a big team.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're a big team that gets it there, but yes.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like, yeah, like maybe you open the door to it becoming what it was or whatever.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: But just being part of that to you has got to be really rad.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So think about all of that that we just talked about.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tried to move to Nashville, nobody would give me a job.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not a single person.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: 2004.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what was Nashville like then?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was just it was so closed off.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everyone is so much more open-minded now than they used to be.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And even in so Matt had actually Was it like a good old boys' club?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're either in or you're out.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not in, we don't care.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're too cool.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Biggest boys' club.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I did so I did try to start my own publishing company at that time.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Off the Hook.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was so clever.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Had my friend's son like with a holding a fish off the hook.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I so I tried to move to Nashville, nobody would give me a job, started my own company, went flat broke.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean flat broke.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I got to Nashville a couple times pitching songs.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean they would take meetings with me, but no one took me.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone really took me seriously.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it was because you were a woman?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were just like, this girl has no idea what she's like, what is she what is she doing, you know?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like she doesn't know what she's doing.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I probably didn't.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: How so?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's just not how it works.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because you would seem quite qualified.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: That just wasn't how it worked.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And people will still tell you that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it works.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta move here, you gotta get in the room, you gotta have writers in the room.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that, I mean, that's still true.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there were a few artists that were taking outside songs, and that's honestly I left out a big part.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Matt Sirletic had pitched.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We had an artist named Angie Aparo, who is a dude, but best singer, I think I've one of the best singers I've ever heard in my life.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Record didn't go anywhere, but those songs were amazing.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we put Matt pitched a lot of them to Faith Hill.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um Virgin.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um she had a big song called Cry, and that was that was one of ours.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that was another thing that so I just thought I could do that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I could just bring in all these outside songs to these recording artists, but that didn't happen.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, you're back to so like I was talking about the ladder, and then it's like you fell down the ladder.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Or you're climbing the mountain, and then it's like, oh, yep.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta stay on this ledge for a long time.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: I actually know I have to go down to get back up.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did that feel like?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel rejected?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: What was that feeling getting here and realizing like, oh, this isn't gonna work like I thought it was?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just thought, you know, if I had more time, if I had more money, like maybe it would be better.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I thought I had a good product and I thought I was on to something, but that money just goes so quickly, you know.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so luckily at that time uh BMI had an opening in Atlanta.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I took a job at BMI in Atlanta doing like member membership, you know, relations, writer relations.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that was So from director of ARG to uh helping at BMI and uh memberships.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved to Atlanta.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's so important for people to understand.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is like there's no right, there's no glorious path.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: That is so important to hear.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because people, so many people, their pride would have stopped them right there.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I do not have an ego.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's helped me most of my career is not have I I enjoy not being in the bubble, which quite frankly, I do live in Franklin.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I do live in a bubble, but I'm not I am not impressed with myself the way other people can come off with success in this industry.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's hard.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard for me.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did not realize that I was competitive, and I did not realize that I was an entrepreneur.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: It like it took me that many years to figure it out.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It took me 20 years to figure out like that's why.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: God's got a plan, but you're just the doors open and you go through them, doors close.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So now you're in back in Atlanta.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're in your 30s.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I am mid-30s, yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's a that's a point where you're like having existential questions about your life.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I definitely in your 30s, you're like, what am I?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be 40 in not that long.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, I did not.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I I'm feeling this way right now.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I'm like, oh, 40's coming.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like my half of my life's over.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm freaking out a little bit.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: But how did you take that whole Step down the ladder, moving to Atlanta, being getting older and from uh optics level digressing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I was still out every night seeing bands.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't have time to really even think about any of it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was still I was still I was so I loved that job at BMI so much.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I would die in that building when they brought me to Nashville to interview in that building on Music Row.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Del Bryant was still the president of BMI at that time.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, his parents wrote just the most incredible songs.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Dream by the Everly Brothers.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: My dad used to sing that song to me before going to bed.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was just, I knew, I guess my instincts, like my heart, like I knew in my heart of hearts that's where I was supposed to be.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't necessarily feel like I dig digressed.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was I loved it so much.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I loved Catherine Bruden, who's headed up that office for many decades now.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: She was like the queen of hip hop at the time.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was a dream for me.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got to work in country, Christian music, hip-hop, pop music.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean And this was all at BMI.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: This was all at BMI in Atlanta.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: While your role was what?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just signing songwriters up.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: All I just brought in songwriters and helped educate them.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you got them uh like their you were big you became their PRO.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but they're so it it you know, BMI creates opportunities at Lollapalooza, at ACL.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started partnering with brands and putting on showcases, believe it or not.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and here it well in Atlanta and Nashville.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I really got to work hand in hand with all the different offices.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I absolutely loved it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could be in a piano bar with T-Pain in Las Vegas.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I could be in the studio with T.I.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you think you've been put in demo jail in Nashville.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wait until you're sitting in the studio with T.I.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: and he plays you 71 tracks, you know?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, whoa, that's a long night.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um bat.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it it was it was a blast.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I helped um affiliate, that's what you call it, affiliating.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: The word country politic comes from a real era in country music when Nashville took country music and made it elegant.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Strings, background vocals, orchestra.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was country music with polish.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think Patsy Klein, Glenn Campbell, Tammy Wynette, George Jones, Charlie Pride, songs that still had the ache and honesty of country, but dressed up with style.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that is exactly what this hotel feels like.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: The kind of place where every detail's been thought through.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you feel the history immediately, but unlike staying right in the middle of Broadway, it feels tucked away, it feels calm, it feels like you found something.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's honestly why I love it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's where I go when I want to get away, think, slow down, have a restful time without technology.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're ready, the rhyman and Broadway are about a four-minute walk.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: The Country Politan Hotel.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Stay in the story.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: The Shop Boys, do you remember the Shop Boys?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: They had a song called Party Like a Rock Star.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Big song, big uh ringtone.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they did like over a million ringtones in one month.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when you start to realize, as you're saying, the existential questions like, am I making enough money?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm doing a lot.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, Aaron Schuster on the Christian side, um, a big rock band called Manchester Orchestra.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, can you let people know just so they understand the work ethic side, how many hours you're putting in a week?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: All of them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're in the office at 9 a.m., no matter what, on the phone, affiliating people all day.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: People will just call the office and be like, where's my publishing?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, I don't know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where is your publishing?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's let's get into it.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's figure it out.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you're at you're you're taking a lunch, you're taking a coffee, just like you do here in Nashville, and then you're going to dinner, and then you're just going to see bands all night.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Repeat, repeat, repeat.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you're seeing bands on the weekends, probably.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely did not have a personal life until there's not such a thing as a 40-hour work week.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's important too.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: As this, because you develop uh immense work ethic.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I had no personal life.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I could also be flexible and walk through that door when the opportunities came, because I didn't even have a houseplant, you know?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you can get up and move.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when you start to have a family and have to think about those things about other people besides yourself, you know, that's when it can be tricky.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, maybe I can't just get up and go.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you can, because I think you did that, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's another podcast.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can interview me on that one.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you're in your 30s, but I know you I know you were well.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna believe what happens next.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm I'm I know uh a tr a huge turning point in your life.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm like, we're not getting that far from some things happening.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at BMI, I mean, the first the other cool thing about working in BMI is you can be as much a part of the team for these artists as you want to be.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them you become very close with.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Other ones, it's very admin, you know, is very much like, let's make sure the songs are getting there correctly, let's make it sure, let's make sure you're getting paid correctly, you know, or you could really be tight with these folks.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I became really tight with Zach Brown and his co-writer Wyatt Drett at the time because they were just killing the Atlanta music scene.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And Zach is eventually how I met my husband.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll we'll get to that too.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, when he started to really take off, he made this album with Keith Stiegall, you know, the foundation, and was taking management meetings.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, maybe I should throw my hat in the ring for that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, nope, I'm gonna die here at BMI.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Warmest, fuzziest job of all time, not gonna do it.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then he signed with a management company out of LA called Roar at the time, and they called me and said, Will you be Zach's data manager?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, okay.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you hadn't even applied.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, but you considered it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had I'd considered applying, and then I was like, No, I'm not gonna do that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then they called me.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I want you to.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the warm fuzzy handcuffs of BMI in Atlanta had you.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So again, also remember a lot of these times I'm taking a pay cut.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of these times you I'm taking a pay cut.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would imagine.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, took a pay cut from virgin to having to spending all my money to then taking a job at BMI and then, yeah, another pay cut to go work to the management company.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had been a lot of upside.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot, yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, yes, the potential for upside, yes.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I I I will never forget Bernie Cahill and Matt Marr.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Matt Marr still lives here in Nashville and works at uh Activist, which is what Roar became, and they still manage the Lumineers and I think some others.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say Michael Fronti, but I don't think they manage him anymore.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: The Dead Estate, Dead and Company, yeah, very cool company.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um But yeah, so Zach was like, you should come on the road with us to Florida.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go do one of these jam cruises or like the rock boat or whatever.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And Bernie said, Lynn, do not get in that van or the park and fly, whatever it was.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Do not get in that van.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, You'll never get off the road.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the road for three straight years after that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: In my late 30s.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Never got off the road.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Bernie, how did you know this?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Because I have experience, dummy.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: You got addicted.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I it was like, yeah, I love telling people it was me and 12 dudes and two dogs on a bus on a nine-week radio promo tour for chicken fried.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: What is the most important part of a manager or great manager, not good, I'm talking excellent manager.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it would be great for them to not have that ego that I was speaking of earlier.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think by nature, women are just a little more nurturing.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I were a dude, I wouldn't want to wake up Zach Brown every morning to go do a radio show, you know.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Feel like I was good.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was good at And if I was Zach, I'd want a woman to wake up.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, it's okay, I'm giving you, you know, a few minutes to to wake up and I'll like, get up, dude.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we gotta go.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I think ultimately a manager has to educate themselves on all areas of the business.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you don't know what a PRO does, figure it out quickly.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know how to read a contract from CAA, figure it out quick.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think a good manager doesn't know everything.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they aren't afraid to ask what they don't know.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the problem, is a lot of young managers today will just say, Oh, it's yellow, it's yellow.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then go, oh, never mind, it's green, it's green, you know, and then you've lost that trust.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, everybody has to start somewhere.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think experience is what really makes a great manager, Clarence Spaulding.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just think he is like the end-all be-all.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like he he's been in the trenches, he gets the strategy of it all, he's got great people surrounding him.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's a difference.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I look at Clarence and I was like, I want to be like him.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just own a comp I don't want to own a job, I want to own a company.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give uh context for listeners that don't know who he is?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Who Clarence is?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um he has managed Brooks and Dunn, everyone from Brooks and Dunn to Jason Al Dean.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look at the career that guy's had, you know.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's also he also picked up Darius at a time where no one looked like Darius in country music.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they figured out, you know, how to make it work.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they put him on radio stations and they did trivia like country trivia with Darius Rucker, and he knew more about country music than the people at the station, you know.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, he's not country, and it's like, no wait, but he is.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I just think I look at little thing, little things like that that became big things, which has been a theme here today, I think.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just saw him as stagecoach too.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, he's still there with all his people, you know.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think he hung the moon.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think just you have to really educate yourself.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be firing on one cylinder.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you gotta be to be a great manager, you gotta be firing on all cylinders at all times, which is why I don't do it anymore.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Firing on a I almost feel like this is something this is a complete side note, and I want to get back into your story, but I had this thought the other day and it was an unpopular opinion.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, if you're gonna go after the artist thing these days, I almost feel like you have to be a great performer, a great artist, a great songwriter, a great business person, have built a brand, understand your brand, have something unique to bring the market that is your own lane.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's you're the first you, the market's gonna respond to you, and then people will probably follow what you're doing.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're the first to do that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I like went down this list of things, and I was like, a good artist is kind of like you're wearing all the hats, you understand what a PRO is and splits, and you understand if you get a publishing deal, what's going on in artist development and how much the label's taking, or what like to me, I think that an artist needs to be like I think we think music business, or I'm talking to someone that's a you know power player in the music business.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um I don't know who it was, but they were on my podcast and they were like some uh someone had the opinion of like uh artist is like the biggest small business kind of a thing.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think artists think about themselves as a business.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think they think about themselves as just the creative side, you know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: But that's my unpopular opinion is you have to be good at all those things.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe you're not strong, equally strong across the board.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to be or You don't have to have the best voice.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have the best voice, then you have to work really hard at it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be the best guitar player, but if you're not the best guitar player, you better practice every day.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Billy String still takes guitar lessons.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's an alien, he's not even of this planet.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's like the fastest picker out there, right?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's so talented, and he still takes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I want to be the guy giving him guitar lessons, but he still takes lessons.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I heard Chris Doperson has a vocal coach.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he's flawless.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So back to your story.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so this is all happening.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: What happens next?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked with Zach on the management team for seven years.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I stayed on the road three of those years.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I came off the road in 2010, and I think that's when I finally was like, I was about to turn 40.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the existential dread.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: I well, he asked me.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was still on the road, and he was like, You don't want to be out here anymore.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Dear God in heaven, I do not know, I do not want to be out.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys, but I definitely I can't be out here anymore.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's crazy.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um he said, What I he I was always always Zach's publisher too, by the way, in addition to wearing many other hats, I was always the publisher because I had the experience.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um So he was like, Let's start a publishing company.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, great.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I left the management company and went to work directly for Zach.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought we were gonna start this big publishing company, which we did, but the same day he was like, Oh, I also want to start a record label.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't, no, no, uh, we're gonna start a publishing company.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: He said, No, no, you can you can do both.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll eventually find someone to run the label.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can do both.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh my gosh.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time, I thought eventually, we because he got all of his recordings back from Atlantic, and you know, that deal only lasted so long.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So in my mind, I was building a foundation for us to release CBB records in the future.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in the meantime, he, of course, wanted to help out his friends um in Atlanta who were also songwriters and playing in bands at the time.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we signed a handful of artists, and um, I started coming to Nashville more often.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess we did a deal through the Orchard or Red at the time, which is now the Orchard, which is arguably one of the biggest independent digital.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were the biggest independent digital distributor at the time.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, that was it was a lot of hard work, it was a lot of fun.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was meeting a lot of people, I was going to New York a lot to meet with the Orchard folks and coming to Nashville a lot for songwriting stuff.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I eventually just said, Zach, I ha I have to move to Nashville.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you want the singing to succeed, I need to be in Nashville.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so eventually Ken Robald, who's now um what is he, the CEO or president of Sony Music here in Nashville, um came on to run the label.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I became the VP of AR or whatever in publishing.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And finally moved to Nashville in 2013.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Almost got us to this decade.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Almost, almost.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I eventually moved to Nashville in 2013 and we were still doing Southern Ground.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And about a year into that, Zach decided to um not do not do it anymore the way we had been.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody got laid off.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: I got laid off, Ken got laid off.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and actually was that 13 or 14?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this was like 2014, and I actually considered going back to BMI.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think ASCAP actually made me an offer.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I met at the time I met Tracy Thomas, who manages Jason Isbull, and she was like, I think they're hiring like product managers over at 30 Tigers.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you should come over here and you can help with Jason's label, and you know, you should meet David Messias.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, I'd I'd love to meet David.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I met with David again, gigantic pay cut.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean half of what I was making before.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I took the job at 30 Tigers, they handed me eight artists the day that I walked in the door, but it felt great because I knew exactly what I was doing.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was all marketing and distribution.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: This was still when a marketing plan was actually a marketing plan and not just TikTok.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I walked in, I got Jason, Isabel, Lucinda Williams, Green Sky, Bluegrass, uh, this band called Stealism.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was a duo.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer plays um Pedl Steel.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Pedal Steel, yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: For Miranda Lambert, he's been playing with her now for like 10 years.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: But just the coolest, greatest things.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you never knew who was going to show up in that office.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like Brent Brett Michaels would be there, you know, Brett Michaels would be there touring one day, or I got to meet Tom Zutot, who signed Guns N' Roses and Motley Crue back in the day.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was just it was super fun.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Found out I was pregnant, um, I was engaged and found out I was pregnant um just a few months into that job.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it was awesome.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'd had a Were you ever planning having to have a kid?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, kids?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: The motherly instinct actually hit me when I was like 17 years old.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have wanted a child, children my whole life, and did not have a baby till I was 41.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I think that's the magic of Nashville.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think being even in Atlanta, in New York and LA, I didn't know that I could be a mom and be in the music business.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest with you, it just wasn't I was like, well, I guess it's just not in the cards, you know, because I'm just always gonna have this career.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I eventually met my husband through Zach.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when I came off the road in 2010, we started dating, and um, whew, he is the love of my life.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: That man has helped make all of my dreams come true, um, including Levi, who was sitting downstairs.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I probably would have had more children if I hadn't been in my forties, you know.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: My mom was around that age when I was born.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are you an only child?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: I have a brother.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: You have a brother?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's older, but my dad was 45.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of liked having older parents.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think Levi enjoys it too.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell he's already kind of an old soul.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's a wisdom.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's super chill.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're way more grounded.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: You just know more.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Life experience.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Life experience.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's the whole thing that you're gaining in this whole like conversation.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: All I'm thinking about is the amount of like we think we are so impatient as human beings.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like patience is instant one of the weakest muscles in so many people, especially in a place like Nashville, where you want to get here and become famous.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: And things just don't work that way.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Or building a business or a podcast.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, you want sponsors?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're going to go into debt and accumulate credit card debt if this is what you're going to do, and you're going to self-fund yourself and bet on yourself to get to a place where you can possibly have sponsors that will help fund your podcast.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's a startup mentality.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um not without like I feel like people just have to understand that the grind is relentless and that the only people that make it are the ones that are willing to go through the valley of death and despair and survive it and keep going.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the ones that make it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there had to be some valleys.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't gotten into them.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: But would you agree with me?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: That that's a characteristic of just like successful people.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the rejection.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just even like I said, coming here and pitching songs of my own company, just getting told no over and over again.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's got to be way more difficult for an artist, obviously.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think being resilient and just knowing that you definitely have to trust your instincts.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: You definitely have to trust your gut.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's not something everybody can do.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that in itself is difficult.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're saying, betting on yourself, trusting yourself, um, knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel is The best part.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that comparison gets a lot.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I see a lot the weight of that comparison on so many artists.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, don't worry about what anyone else is doing.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's so much more, you know, it's easier said than than done, of course.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, keep your your blinders on.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you what's the biggest question that you get asked by artists or people that if you're willing to take a meeting with someone, what is the biggest question that everybody has asked you as you've been the successful, you know, executive woman in the music business?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do think people are curious about the financial piece.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, if if I had$100,000, I could start my own company too, you know.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um which isn't what happened.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um unfortunately, my So you feel like people ask you about money?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they were they're like Like even artists?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, no.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um like just across the board.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Artists, songwriters, anybody.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to think about that.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think is the question people should ask you that they're not asking?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: I do because I'm thinking about this patience thing.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking about people often are gonna sit with you because they want something from you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like how many people want something from you?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be a lot, right?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it used to be.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I do what I do tell younger executives all the time is the fact that it does take a lot of time and a lot of hard work.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let your work speak for itself.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do tell them about the ups and downs and the peaks and valleys because, you know, I'm like, you don't have learn everything so that you can finally figure out what it is you want to do.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you may start out a manager, but you may end up at a label, or you may end up at a PRO.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you may, I guess, you know, how'd you do it?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the the general consensus.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the only way that you didn't learn how is to do it.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's the general, yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like how how how'd you do it?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, I just you know, because also a lot of people I think sometimes feel like, oh, you're so lucky.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that nothing makes me crazier than that.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two really good questions, and I I don't have great answers for you.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, we gotta get to Luke Collins.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's do it.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: So get us there.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Any way you want to.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2015, um, I had Levi in January of 2015, and I think at that point, um unfortunately, as I was gonna say earlier, my husband had lost his dad and his granddad um while I was pregnant, um, which was which was very sad.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Working at 30 Tigers, great, great gig.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can be home with Levi.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: I actually got promoted while I was on maternity leave to the VP of marketing, which was cool.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I went back after having Levi, it wasn't the same for me.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, your life changes, as you know, your priorities change, things change.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my husband got tired of me kind of saying, like, I feel like I'm doing all these things, and what am I doing it for?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've got this promotion, but I'm not making more money.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, you know, and I want to be with my son.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be with Levi, yeah.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I Jay, my husband kept telling me we lived um in East Nashville in Englewood in a house overlooking the Cumberland River.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it was summer of 2015, so that's why I'm here.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're celebrating the 10, 10 years of Riverhouse.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Woo-hoo, whoop, whoop.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and Jay, my husband, just said, you should just start your own record label.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, you know enough people, you know enough about the business, you should just start your own record.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's so dumb.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm great in the building.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love being in the building.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not doing that.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually he's like, You can just call it River House.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is the river house.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, okay.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you get online, it's like, okay, well, riverhouseartist.com is available and it's available on Instagram and it's available on Facebook, and that's where you start.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, can I get these handles?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go daddy is where you start, right?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's crazy, right?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that was in September of 15.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I told David Messias I was I wanted to start my own label.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I completely get it as long as you do it with me.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Of course, I'll do it with you.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: So in September of 15, um, Cappy, Chris Cappy that manages Luke Combs and I used to be good friends, and we were actually roommates in Atlanta at one point.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he moved to Nashville.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was going to manage Luke and I think John Langston, who eventually I think went with uh Carrie Edwards.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, um, he moved to Nashville and he was like, Hey, I have something I want you to put your ears on.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just I think it's so funny still that people like, hey, I want you to listen to something.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean to be annoying.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's and I'm like, No, that's how you find people.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's that's AR.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't have to get it from a lawyer or a publicist or whatever.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of cool stuff have come from my friends and family, you know.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: But he was like, hey, I want you to listen to something.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so he came over and to the river house, which we were actually renovating at the time.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember we were sitting on my kitchen floor and he just pulled a speaker out of his backpack and started playing like the first three songs from what would become this one's for you.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh my.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wait a second.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I think you might actually have something here, which also doesn't happen anytime.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Your friends and family give you stuff.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: But were these the demos that Luke paid for himself?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: He had paid for themself with Scott Moffat.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: He had two EPs out, and I think he had put just put Hurricane out, and he had the six songs, which again would eventually become this one's for you, had six of them actually.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um wasn't he killing it on like Vine or something or some social?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: He had been killing it on Vine, and but I had no idea what he looked like or anything.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just I heard Out There, which was the first song on the record, and I heard Stapleton moments.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I heard that kind of voice mixed with very commercial, very commercial country songwriting or whatever.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, I didn't know what my label was going to be.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what genre of music it was going to be.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it could be anything over at 30 Tigers, you know, it's all genres.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I wasn't trying to sign Luke at the time either.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was really just helping Cappy because he had never done artist management before.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: So my goal was just to help them make goals.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's set help you set some short-term goals and some long-term goals.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And during that time, is you'll hear Luke talk a lot about taking these meetings on Music Row and even at B Meyer Asscap, and they were like, Yeah, we don't, we don't hear it, son, you know, or nobody wants to look at a poster review.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where he was told, like, yeah.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, yeah, I think everyone gets told that.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know it doesn't matter where it comes from.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be told no a thousand times, I feel like it just comes with the territory, it should motivate you more, if anything.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're one no closer to a to a yes.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: So eventually they were, I think that he was just really discouraged.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he had tried out for the voice.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, and they told him that he just wasn't interesting enough to be on the TV show.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was just crazy to me.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I met him though, I I was concerned for his health.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he did lose, you know, a bunch of weight before he went on tour.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, look, I mean, you can look at all these great bands.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're if you're gonna be commanding a stage, you're probably gonna want to be a little healthier.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't listen to music with my eyes.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't care.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I thought he was cute, precious, adorable, no matter what.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, health-wise, you know, you're probably gonna want to be a little healthier if you're gonna go on tour the way you think you're gonna go on tour, which he certainly has.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, eventually I said, look, guys, I'm starting a record company.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll sign you.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, it's new, it's a startup, but it's at 30 Tigers.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have this whole infrastructure from 30 Tigers, and obviously they do great work.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be me, you know, introducing you to other songwriters.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you had this great digital team and this great PR team.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: And was this just with Luke?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just with Luke.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just this conversation.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: You and Luke Luke and Cappy, yeah.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Me and Luke and Cappy.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Cappy was managing Luke.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Luke was did was part of that, was it all the music, or was it like, oh, he's also doing well on the markets responding to his music as well.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been market tested on Vine.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: We know there's an interest, people are downloading or buying or streaming his music already that he's putting out independently.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, it's great.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's why I was shocked.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was shocked.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: So he built the infrastructure.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I even called some of my friends at Did Ainar, and I was like, what's wrong with you?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: I said, if you look at there was a chart of the time called Buzz Angle.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that still a thing?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've never heard of it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: This was also right after Kane Brown had come out and had been had a similar model, like was, you know, really kicking off online, but he was also getting playlisted by this amazing man, Jay Frank, at the time, was getting his music out via these passive playlists.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: So he was getting, he was gaining a rather large audience being on these passive playlists.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: When I went to look at Luke's numbers, it was 100% people searching for him.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: 100% people searching for Hurricane.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Over a million streams at the time.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just a million, not a million a week, but just a million at the time.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not just.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a feat.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, but now you oh, we need five million a week to screw that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Ricidus.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I was just saying, try to get a million streams as an independent artist without a big old team or a lot or money.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of hard.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think he even realized.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think either one of them realized.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't even know until I researched it.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, this 100%, you're not on one playlist.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's not one playlist person that knows who you are.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is 100% your fans searching for you.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, Oh, that's good.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, it's really good.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he was getting, he was seeing some good checks, you know, so he was able to to uh to make that those six songs.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up I think that was all he had.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was like five grand or something.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he talks about it in some interviews, but yeah, he's like, Yeah, I took all my money I had and poured it into put it back in himself, put it back in the music.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: Believed in himself, bet on himself.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was it was this conversation.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are they an immediate yes?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, nope, not at all.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think eventually he was like, Well, this person believes in me.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the credentials of Zach Brown band, I think, were probably really attractive.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then having a home um and a team of people, I think, was exciting to them.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was no big advance.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was no, I think I offered him a$10,000 advance he didn't even take.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, eventually, I, you know, there's equipment and vans and all of those things that we paid for, you know, in good faith, no problem.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, I I finally left 30 Tigers in February of 16.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had to, I was, I wanted to see through this Lucinda Williams project that was very special to me.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was done in February of 16 and he signed in March of 16.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we finished that record.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: This one's for you.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think altogether that record cost maybe$50 or$60,000.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: We re-recorded it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I just spit.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I could probably retire now, so that feels good.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Off of that 50 G 50 G's.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um still having too much fun.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you know, we did the first four records together.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: I did hop on the management team for a little while just to help out.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: Things were moving so quickly.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I just said, guys, I I do not want to be a manager.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is not what I signed up to do.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wanted to start a publishing company and a record company, and I really need to focus on as much as I love them and loved him, you know, and miss them all the time.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I just this is what I want to do.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I made a very intentional decision to start focusing on the executives in the office and helping them with their leadership.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't need to be best friends with the artist anymore.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to be out every night, you know, seeing bands circles.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you have a family.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's just I want to be home.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, and it's it's working.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Zeb Luster was my first employee, um, and now he's the EVP, and we've got a team of 12, and they're just crushing it.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and because Zeb has learned everything about the business, he often has people come to him and wanted him to be a manager, be their manager.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we're also gonna be relaunching the management division.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: I myself will not be managing anyone.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you, as you said earlier, I'm very much behind the scenes making sure that shit gets done.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because a mentorship mentorship, I think it's so important to have someone that's lived life.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's lived life because that is the re you're the resource that is needed for the person that doesn't have the experience.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Where you can pour into these folks and be like, Absolutely, this is my gift now.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm able to give back from my experience.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's like who's the best person?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's a pr a Chinese proverb, and I believe it goes something like this who's the um who's the best person to ask about the road ahead and it's the people coming back.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're kind of like able to do that, it sounds like yeah, and I think for me, I also want them to do it the right way.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want Zeb and the the young managers under him now to be able to make decisions, make good decisions, you know for long-term success.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want them to make decisions for artists like based on fear or solely based on finances, which I think gets people in a lot of trouble early on.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the deals that we do are not everything's fifty, we're partners with everybody we work with.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Luke and I we're partners, he gets all of his music back in like 15 years.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh I wanted to make sure I could get up and look at myself in the morning every day and feel good about what we're doing.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think without ripping people off.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has won in this Luke Combs.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has won in this situation.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: The label, the agent, the manager, the origin story, whatever.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody has benefited tremendously in every way.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um I'm curious about Luke.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: After there's this huge first record, yeah, and people respond.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's now out on the road.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: And there's all these expenses, and he's an artist, but he's getting funding from a label to be able to go out and hit the road and grow and get bigger, sell more tickets, make more money.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you have this massive amount of debt, essentially, as an artist that you have to pay back the label or recoupment.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um how many records andor tours did it take for Luke to get out of the red?
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's the very first one.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the first yeah, I mean like first tour, first year, or first like yeah.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with Hudson Westbrook, who we work with now.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not the norm by any means, but he was already making some money.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, from my experience at record labels and working with bands that had been on tour.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Live Nation came in with an offer of$13 million, and I was like, Don't even look at it.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: And Cappy and Luke were like, What are you talking about?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's$13 million.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Don't even consider it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're not even gonna consider it, you know, and I could feel confident saying things like that because I'm like, you're going to make more.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to make more money than that.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not that it's not a great offer.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely shows that they believe in you, but you're going to make more than that.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you're just going to have to wait.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he was able to like avoid a lot of the pitfalls and a lot of those decisions because I I was there saying it's gonna get it's gonna be even better than that.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's easy to just take a check and be like, oh, this is great.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was like, but then they can do whatever they want with your concert tickets, you know.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not bashing them, whatever.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, it's just a live nation or put up insert company.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, let's say you don't sell out a show and they decide they want to put you up on Groupon, like you're already devaluing yourself.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just some of those deals work, right?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because you saw numbers, right?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: You saw you saw recoupment, you saw projections, you understood business.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you're able to be like, Luke, at this rate, look at this.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is the reason why you're gonna make more than 13 million.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't overspend on the record, we didn't overspend on marketing, we didn't overspend on video.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, it's a lot easier to put some beard oil on him and put a hat on, you know, than it is for women to have to do$2,000 worth of glam every day, you know?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it was easier for him to recoup that money pretty quickly.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean, we just didn't overspend on anything.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would just be like, no, we're not doing that.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need a$50,000 photographer.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if the photographer wants to work with Luke, he'll do it at the rate we want the photographer to work for, you know.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just easy to say we've got to have Dandy Clinch do everything, or we've got to have, you know, this person do everything.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, we really don't.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because the public, I mean, it's one of those things, like I think about this with recording.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, nobody's thinking about what compressor was used.
• 1:03:45
  unknown: Right.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Or what microcomputer is.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: Except you, you might be, yeah.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are saying, like, but the consumer, it's like we see a picture of Luke, we're not thinking about who took the picture.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're just like, there's a picture of Luke Holmes.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: Next, like, I think that the industry side gets more caught up in that stuff.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have a good team that has your back, they'll even overspend for you and you won't even know.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is crazy town.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot believe, yeah, there are some artists that have just have no idea.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right now, successful artists that have no idea what their managers are doing.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's terrifying.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I hate that for them, but I wish I could help everybody, but I can't help every maybe, like you said, if this helps one person, then great.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: What makes a good deal a good deal in business?
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to work with somebody that you trust, and you have to get those percentages.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to stick up for yourself.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you really have to be involved in to get the best deal.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think if you can, you know, do a licensing deal with a label and you get everything back and you have a nice budget um and you haven't signed some early production deal where someone's taking 50% for the rest of your life.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it a good deal is exactly what it is, what the industry standard should be.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think managers should be taking 20% from any from any artist.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um what should they take?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: What would be fair?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think 15 is right.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think 15 is a good place to start.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're operating at less than that, hopefully.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're operating more at like 11 or 12 percent eventually.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, agents take cuts, managers take cuts when there's a lot of success.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of cuts.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: Before the artist sees their side.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: That too.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_02: So 10 years.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: So but we didn't even really get into the so like it launched for.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Luke.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that just took a lot of rocket ship.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: Rocket ship after rocket ship.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that he was going to be successful.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know it was going to happen that fast.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: And now you're celebrating 10 years.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: And Luke signed in what year?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: So he signed in 16, March of 2016.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: We finished the album.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then during that time, I also met Ray Fulcher, who co-wrote a lot of his songs.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: He was from Georgia.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he and my husband grew up down the road from each other.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I Ray was the first songwriter that I signed to the publishing company.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I honestly didn't know if one or the other was going to keep the lights on.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: But the publishing company is what I'd really always wanted to do.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't you throw like 30 grand at something at some point in your life?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was Luke.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was what I said I needed.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just I said I needed 30 grand to get help get this record off the ground.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what you asked for from 30 Tigers?
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you were like, I need 30 grand to get this Luke.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: After he had the music release, or did you re-release the music?
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he put out the six songs in November of 15.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we finished the album, and we were going to put it out in August of 16, but the labels finally started coming back around.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we met with literally every single label.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there were probably 16 labels that we that we met with.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: And because 30 Tigers had like a we kind of had a slapstick radio team.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: This woman, Pam Newman, who was part of helping Braid the Dixie Chicks back in the day, and oh old Dominion.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's phenomenal.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um he was already getting some some ads at radio.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Bo Martinovich, who was on the radio promo team at Sony, was like, this guy is getting our ads.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: We no one knows who he is, and he's getting our ads.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Ken Robald, who I'd worked with at Southern Ground, was uh co-chair with Randy Goodman at Sony.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where we eventually did a joint venture there with Luke at Sony.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't put the record out, I think, until May of the following year, maybe August of the following year.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: We waited, put those other six songs out.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it was River House, which is connected to Thirty Tigers.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we pulled the we pulled.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Did you buy yourself out?
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or how did the um they got an override?
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the thing.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 30 Tigers doesn't own anything.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, Thirty Tigers is strictly label services.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you can leave anytime you want, but you give them an override.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they got like a 3% override of that record.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is great.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they wanted us to stay, but I had I knew Ken so well and I knew that we needed a really strong radio team.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I paid out of pocket to have the 30 Tigers team stay on for like a couple extra months because when we signed to Sony, they were like, well, let's pump the brakes and let's and I was like, no, no, no, there's no pumping the brakes.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's full steam ahead.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like full steam ahead.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we gotta get.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, no, this this train's, it's already left the station.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can't, we can't pull back.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, that's those are the kind of conversations that are had.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the JV was also 50-50 with Sony, which was unheard of at the time.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: So Luke and I were still partners on the on the deal, and then we partnered with Sony together.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I did a second JV with Sony outside of the Luke stuff.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where I worked with Jameson Rogers, which was super fun.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's such a great writer.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: But stuff, yeah, I like that.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like those JVs are inevitable when you get to a size where you need the infrastructure of a Sony.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we had to have them.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: We had to have them for the global success that Luke has now.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: We had to have, and even his age, he had to change agencies at the time.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: The agent didn't want to send him to California.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, he's got to go to California.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's more country fans in California than there are anywhere.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know, and I listen, I lived it with the Zype Brown band.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was nuts.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: We played like airfields and stuff.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was sold nuts out there.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sold out everywhere, probably too.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, but they, you know, again, I think sometimes people are so kind of short-sighted.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um on the short-sighted.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Short-sighted.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I th this is so cool, man, because it's like hearing your story to me reinforces playing the long game.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people need to think in terms of not one year, not even five years, I think decades.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: And back to people just want what they want and they want it now, and being patient.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the theme throughout your career is patience.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And just hearing like what are you doing when you have to be patient?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what are you doing when you shouldn't be patient?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like with Luke.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're putting our foot on the gas.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're not pulling back financially.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna keep going.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like knowing when to and trusting your gut is the thing that you said that's been standing out to me in the conversations I've had with really successful people, is the trust gut side of things.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And something doesn't feel right, you just can't do it.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's very interesting.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's just a it's a commonality, and it's something I'm starting to do that's totally new to me.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm an analytical.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I and and I would imagine um the people that you are like, I don't know if mentoring is the right word.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna use that you're mentoring.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they are gonna think a lot about when the money enters the equation, the risk factor.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna be risk avoidant because they're gonna be like, I want to know that this is gonna be the thing.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um this guy I knew at a publishing company, they were like, don't sign someone unless you bet your house on it.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a lot of pressure to put on someone.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Lord, I definitely wouldn't know.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'd never sign anybody if you wouldn't bet your house on it.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the dumbest thing in the world to say that.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's gonna be successes, and there I mean, it's just a g it's a statistics game for most of the records I listen to, no one's ever heard of.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, um Americana bands before I feel like there was even an Americana genre, you know.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um Who?
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God, you gotta listen to this record.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Jolene.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: The band was called Jolene, they're from North Carolina.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: The record's called Hell's Half Acre.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the one of the records we did at Breaking.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's how old it is.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But if you listen to it, you'd be like, oh my God, this would be so huge today.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I was a virgin, I signed a rock band called El Poose.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was five black dudes that were playing punk rock.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they went on the warp tour and toured, you know, internationally, so ahead of their time.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you ever get to meet uh Jonathan from Crush Management, every time I see him, he's like, El Poose should have been the biggest band in the world.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I know.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so um it's it's I mean, I've definitely signed and worked with more bands that have not been successful than I have that's but it's cool that the ones that I have, you know, are historically, you know, legendary.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So So what was this woman's what did you say at this woman's breakfast that like I when I read on Music Grow that you were the key keynote speaker for this event for women.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_02: There was a few speakers, but for this event you were you were saying, man, I wish that that had been recorded because I felt like that was really good.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_02: You remember some of the things that you said?
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the same thing that I've said here today is that it's just not always pretty.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not always the prettiest path.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you just you really have to advocate for yourself, just like in any situation.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to know who you are and what you stand for, and maybe not necessarily who you want to be, but I just think you've got you've got to know the value of you.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um because that's easy, so easy to get lost in all of all of this, you know.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think as an example, even with Hudson Westbrook now, who's also seen a lot of early success, quit college to go on tour.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for two years now, he's been courted by all the major booking agencies.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been able, you know, Zeb being the manager every week.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, WME called again, well, CAA called again, and again, I have a lot of friends that work there and they do fantastic work.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: But Hudson has this great independent, you know, agency in in Texas.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know for a fact he wouldn't be on the stages that he's been on so early in his career if he had been at a bigger agency.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even Andrew, it's called Evergreen, um, even the agent himself will call me and be like, Thank you so much for sticking up for me and standing by me and not telling him that he needs to go to this big agency just to go to a big agency.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you don't want to go there and be one of 500 people that are trying to get, you know, a stage at Austin City Limits.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: He played a main stage at ACL two years ago.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know that if somebody, and I and I've told my friend at CAA this, I'm like, you know that if the buyer had called you and said, who should I put on the stage at this time?
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: You would have had five other people that you would have had to bring up before you brought up Hudson Westbrook.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a fact.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Yeah, you're right.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like Andrew has spent all this time like building this agency.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why why would he just build stuff up for people to leave him?
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just doesn't, you know, so I think I think it's conversations like that, just knowing your value and knowing what you can do and what you bring to the table.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_02: How do you like knowing your value?
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think is one that is hard.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because it's easy to be like, oh, this person has an opinion about me.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Their opinion really matters because they're that person.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So where is that intrinsic value and for you, did you always have it, or was it something that was built over time?
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely built over time.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely built over time.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's it's hard.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_00: It it it's it's so interesting.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've been so ingrained with the artist from such a young age that it's never I've just always been an advocate for the artist.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just throwing band parties, you know, like we talked about since I was 13.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've just always been friends with the artist.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why managers are sometimes so powerful because they're the ones that are supposedly closest to the artist, you know.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I mean, I think you got to build that confidence over time.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, after my time with the Zach Brown band, being able to use all of that knowledge in the Luke Combs world was like the best feeling.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a great feeling.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh my God, I actually know what I'm talking about.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I actually know these uh executives and I know these players and I know these things.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um a good example of that working with Carla from SACS PR, she was Luke's PR person, and we had this goal of him doing SNL, you know, during Grammy voting time.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are the things you have to think about.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Well, I think they're gonna go with a rock band, you know, like we pitched him for this particular date, but I think I think she said they're probably gonna go with a rock band.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you let me at him.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like that's the competitive part that comes out, right?
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you let me at him.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I took a live recording from 20,000 people in Wisconsin singing Beer Never Broke My Heart.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, You send this to them.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if that ain't rock and roll, I don't know what it is.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just got chills.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, You I was like, you send them this video, you send them this live recording of 20,000 people singing this song.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't book him, then I quit.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so dumb, I quit.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course he got it, which was great.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's aside.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then the pandemic hit, so we were in New York right when it when the coronavirus started.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, jeez.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh, we got to get home.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: But he played?
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he did.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_00: He did in January of 2020.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Did he win a Grammy?
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_00: He has not won a Grammy.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's been nominated several times, but he's not won one yet.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's a a whole nother conversation.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_02: I heard that the that whole situation of voting and all that stuff is not what the public would like to think it is.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um man, this has been a very cool conversation, kind of hearing your life story.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've taken up your whole day.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, we're good.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's cool.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I got a dentist appointment at two, so we're chilling on time.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um good.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so la last thing as we wrap up.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I haven't really answered one question that you've asked me on the book.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: You have to answer this one.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know if you can.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Have a sip of coffee.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, my wife may we have an espresso machine, and I mean, it is.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Lynn says heavenly that it's really good.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that we I prefer our home coffee over going somewhere.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is delicious.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I want to chug it, but then I feel like I would have been like, nah.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's okay.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have one after, or I I get too nervous.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm definitely I'm very anxious for sure.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Been anxious my whole life.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a this was a band-aid when I walked in.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's okay.
• 1:20:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're yeah, see, like the anxiety thing.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Just like, see that I we could I could talk to you.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I really wanted to do like a life story of to what got you from point A to point B.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't ever do that.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Usually I'll just start in the recent and I'll probe the person for like you know, questions and feelings and things like that.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like your story in particular is one that should be told.
• 1:21:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because not everybody's gonna know it.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for me, the big takeaway is the amount of tenacity required.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: The don't stop mentality.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to me, uh funny enough, it's that you know, it's the Bailey and Luke song.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um when it says you you don't have a backup plan, you know.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Backup plan to me is has been a song for me personally where I'm like, when that hook hits at the end of the chorus, I'm like, that's right.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like the only backup plan is to get back up, or however the lyric is.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or the the well, I don't know.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just let nobody clip you.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: See what I love about Luke too, just I mean, that's such a great song.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And BZ's so like uplifting anyway, yeah, so hype anyway.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I love when you're talking about that authenticity, you know, and just kind of going back to it doesn't have to be perfectly polished or whatever.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I wasn't a part of that song at all, but I love it when Luke says, Don't let nobody clip your wangs, your wang, you know, it's like because that's just how he talks.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why people love him because it's just so real.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that there wasn't a producer sitting there going, it's wings.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're supposed to say wings.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's the cool, that's the that's the stuff, you know.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the magic.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_02: That is the magic.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, all right, as we wrap up, here's my here's my my final question.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm thinking of a few things.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_02: If I asked you what the biggest accomplishment of your life is, I think you would say your son.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Your family.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't I'm not gonna ask that one.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like saying what's your biggest piece of advice is too generic.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_02: But uh if you had one person sitting here and they uh got to only receive one piece of advice for for their entire lives, and let's say that they are like you or like I at a young age, like they just wanted to be an entrepreneur or they wanted to do the thing or work in the music business or be an artist or whatever.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_02: What is the North Star that has remained a North Star, or that you could go back and tell your younger self this will be your North Star that'll keep you on the road through all seasons of life through the winter and through the spring and summer?
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_02: What is what are you gonna tell that person that is like, alright, I'm gonna hold on to this thing and put it in my pocket and is it's there until I'm eighty.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess without also sounding generic or just spouting off a cliche because I do love a basic cliche.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think to just listen, to be a good listener, to be a sponge, you know, that old saying, you know, if you're the loudest person in the room, like that ain't it.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just think you really have to listen and pay attention um to how you're feeling.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just pay attention to what you need.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't and I don't want to say ever put yourself first because I literally never put myself first until five years ago, I feel like, you know.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I would say to just be a good listener, to just shut up and listen.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shut up and listen.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Shut up and and listen.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: That can be the podcast.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Lynn Oliver Klein.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_02: You've been amazing.
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about that.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I don't feel like I've answered any questions.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: On 10 years, feels good.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what the 10 years has in store.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Your son will be 21.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Crazy.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was driving a dog bus the last few weeks.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: A dog bus?
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I met this amazing lady that picks up dogs on a school bus and takes them to the park.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you're driving the bus?
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did drive the bus for her once.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I'm not gonna do it anymore, but that's what I see coming up in my future.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Driving dog buses.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a lot of uh pickleball.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um switching gears.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot switching gears, yeah.
• 1:25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been working a long time, so and I love it, still having fun, but I but I also love watching the next generation do it.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_02: So and I love that you poured so much of your story into this, and hopefully some all you out there listening enjoyed today's episode.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Please share it.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_02: My thing is like 50-ish percent of the people subscribe to this podcast or listen or not subscribed.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_02: So subscribing is your free gift to the podcast.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we want to keep getting on amazing guests, like today's guests, Lynn, thank you, Oliver Klein, and you've been so amazing.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, for folks that are out there that want to maybe listen to some new records or whatever, like what should we listen to?
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, particularly on Riverhouse, also for our 10-year anniversary, Lance Houston, our GM, used he actually came to us from iHeartRadio and he launched River House Radio.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_00: On the iHeart app.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun, it's so cool.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_00: He does like all the River House Radio, like all the liners, and there's like stories from the artists on there.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's sick.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's been super fun.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed sharing that with friends and family, and hopefully it'll catch on because it's such an eclectic, you know.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Riverhouse radio.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it sounds cool too.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the iHeart app.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_02: We need to get that on Sirius XM.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_02: River House Radio.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know we do need to get it on Sirius XM.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's cool right now, only available on the iHeart.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_00: But uh That's awesome.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I still love discovering new artists.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, me and Kent Earls, actually.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've had Kent on here, right?
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's my neighbor.
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_02: I like Kent.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I went and uh hung out with him after the podcast the next day, that next Monday.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh fun! Yeah, he's he's he's he and Martha and their whole family is so great.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're neighbors.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we have another neighbor named Matt Jokey who works with the um, I guess it's called the Liberty Bowl, not the Music City Bowl.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've been judges for this thing called Voice of the Bowl for the last few years.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like instead of asking Dirk Spentley or someone to come do the national anthem on New Year's Day, or it's a little bit before New Year's Day, New Year's Eve, the Music City Bowl.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they do a competition for someone to come sing God Bless America and the national anthem.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I've met so many cool artists that way.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I actually ended up working with the Kentucky gentleman who auditioned one year.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this past year we had a young lady named Charlie George, who's still in high school.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so check her out.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think she's so good.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, so young, like so young, writing these fantastic songs, and just she's so cool.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think she just sold out the bluebird like her first time playing.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, in addition to River House Radio, River House Radio.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_02: I really like Charlie George.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Charlie George.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_00: She sounds like she could be the voice of a generation for sure.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's exciting.
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_02: I probably shouldn't we'll have to remember that and come back to this.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh listen, well, thank you again.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now I need to hook you up with some Victrola.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, please.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever watch any true crime stuff or listen to any true crime podcast?