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Oregon's Ball Screen Conceptual Offense · A Quick Timeout

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  This episode of a Quick Time Out Podcast is presented by Dr.
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  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest probably needs no introduction, but I'll give it anyways.
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  He's the head women's basketball coach for the University of
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  Oregon,
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  Coach Kelly Graves.
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  SPEAKER_02: Coach, welcome to the show.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hey, my pleasure.
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  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Tony.
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  SPEAKER_02: For those that may not be familiar with the women's side,
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  SPEAKER_02: Coach Graves has had some incredible offensive teams there at Oregon,
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  SPEAKER_02: and they generate a ton of looks with pace and space,
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  SPEAKER_02: and then they also use a lot of ball screens,
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  and I haven't really had many guests on the show that talk a
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  lot of ball screen
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  SPEAKER_02: offense,
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  SPEAKER_02: so
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  uh he's someone i've had wanted to have on the show for a long
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  time and today i
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  thought would be a great time for us to talk a little bit ball
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  screen offense and
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  just offense in general and i'll start with that what's the
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  difference for you
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  coach in a team when i know some when they hear like pace and
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  space they think one
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  SPEAKER_02: thing versus like running gun
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of funny.
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  SPEAKER_00: In 2020, we led the nation in scoring at 85 plus.
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  And we've done that a few times in my years at Gonzaga and here
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  at Oregon.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm an offensive coach.
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  SPEAKER_00: I love offense.
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  And in that particular year,
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  Tony,
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  we led the nation,
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  like I said,
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  in scoring.
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  SPEAKER_00: Our efficiency was 123.5.
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  SPEAKER_00: So 123.5 points per 100 possessions, which is historically good.
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  That same year,
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  I think Gonzaga men led the NCAA men's in efficiency at 118.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the Dallas Mavericks, at the time my son was working for them,
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  SPEAKER_00: They set an NBA record at 116.7.
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  So to put into perspective how efficient 123.5 is,
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  you know,
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  it's incredible.
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  And so leading the nation in scoring,
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  people just assume,
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  oh,
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  they're just running and gunning.
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  SPEAKER_00: The reality was we ended up 275th in pace of play.
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  SPEAKER_00: So we weren't the kind of team that just got up and down the floor,
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  SPEAKER_00: even though we were an opportunity break team and we did play fast.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think the reason,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the efficiency and the scoring aligned,
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  SPEAKER_00: we didn't turn the ball over,
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  SPEAKER_00: nor did we turn other people over and we didn't get to the line a ton.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it was kind of a perfect storm.
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  SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, I love, you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: putting pressure on the defense for 40 minutes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: even on made baskets,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to run a,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  we run a so-called numbered break and we try to push it as
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  quickly as possible and
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  SPEAKER_00: make you make a mistake.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if you do, we try to take advantage of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't,
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  SPEAKER_00: we're certainly prepared and fine with just setting up,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: an offense and running and executing half court offense.
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  You see a lot in the NBA and higher level tiered college teams
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  where there is this
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  SPEAKER_02: natural progression between transition offense and offense.
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  They flow seamlessly together and you're able to maintain that
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  pace and that space.
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  SPEAKER_02: How do you all do that?
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  And why do you think that we still have this segmentation of
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  those four phases of
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  SPEAKER_02: transition offense,
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  SPEAKER_02: offense,
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  SPEAKER_02: transition defense,
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  SPEAKER_02: defense?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_00: And with every team, it's a little bit different.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: we,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: secondary break,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: like I said,
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  SPEAKER_00: we try to score,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: early.
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  And then we have a number of reads early,
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  you know,
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  that we would call a secondary break.
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  And so we,
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  I think better than most flow into a half court offense from
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  our transition.
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  SPEAKER_00: I wish we were as efficient as the NBA guys.
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  SPEAKER_00: I am, by the way, for a 24 second clock.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's needed.
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  SPEAKER_00: Everybody else in the world does it.
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  SPEAKER_00: The only entity that doesn't is college basketball.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously high schools here.
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  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I just think it's certainly personnel driven.
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  SPEAKER_00: The better guards you have,
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  SPEAKER_00: the more opportunity you have to really flow into something out of out of
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  SPEAKER_00: transition.
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  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like I said, every everybody's different.
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  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of college coaches that love to dictate.
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  SPEAKER_00: Every possession, they'll run a play every possession.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that just isn't us.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's natural.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think kids want to go.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think they want to be creative.
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  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have the personnel to do that,
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  SPEAKER_00: then you probably should try to micromanage the game best you can.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've just opted over the years to just kind of let our players play,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  teach them correct principles and then let them govern
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  themselves on the court.
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  SPEAKER_02: I know a few teams pace and space.
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  The coaches are a little bit hesitant in running too many ball
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  screens because they
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  SPEAKER_02: don't want to bring another defender to the ball.
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  SPEAKER_02: What would you say to that coach?
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  I still think a good pick and roll action is the toughest
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  action in basketball to
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  SPEAKER_00: defend,
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  SPEAKER_00: to be honest with you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now, we're starting to see more sophisticated.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: 10 years ago when I had Courtney Vandersloot at Gonzaga,
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  SPEAKER_00: very few people were able to handle us in pick and roll.
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  You know,
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  I think as defenses have gotten more sophisticated,
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  there's a lot more out there.
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  SPEAKER_00: Plus,
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  SPEAKER_00: More people are running pick and roll so you can practice it more.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, it's become harder to score out of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I will still contend, though, if you get the right players.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  when Sabrina Ionescu was running point for me and Ruthie Hebert
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  was our center,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think those two scored more,
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  SPEAKER_00: according to Synergy,
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  SPEAKER_00: out of pick and roll than any duo in the history of the game,
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  SPEAKER_00: men or women.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were pretty good at it.
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  Both Courtney and Sabrina were great pocket passers,
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  so it was easy to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I get it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I just, you know, I can't recruit –
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  SPEAKER_00: to be honest with you,
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  the kind of athletes that it takes to just space the floor and
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  break people down.
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  They,
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  you know,
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  I'm not as comfortable coaching that and just never really
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  recruited to it.
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  SPEAKER_00: So therefore we,
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  SPEAKER_00: we have the kind of personnel that,
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  SPEAKER_00: that might need some help getting open or getting their teammate open.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so we, we use a lot of, uh,
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: now we use off ball screens to a lot of pin down actions in our offense,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: a lot of staggered action.
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  But but still,
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  we rely a lot on pick and roll,
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  especially middle ball screens.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've gotten away from a lot of the side ball screens,
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  SPEAKER_00: but we do a lot more in the middle of middle third of the floor.
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  I'll probably come back and ask you a couple of things
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  connected to that.
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  But in particular,
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  as you bring in new players,
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  we're approaching summer months.
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  What are you teaching the ball handler to focus on and to do in
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  that ball screen itself?
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  Well,
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  I learned from a pretty good pick and roll player when I was at
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  Gonzaga.
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  SPEAKER_00: There was a young man up there at the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was a little older man by the name of John Stockton.
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  SPEAKER_00: You may have heard of him.
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  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the best pick and roll player in the history of basketball.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I used to pick his brain all the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when Courtney, you know, first came to us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And for those that don't know,
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  Courtney Vander Sloot is the best point guard in the women's
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  side in the world
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  SPEAKER_00: today.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's been first team all WNBA the last several years.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  And I think she now owns like the four best assist seasons in
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  WNBA history.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now she's a WNBA champion.
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  SPEAKER_00: So she's added that to her resume.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, John used to break it down because I'd ask him all the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: when you come off that ball screen,
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  SPEAKER_00: he would always say,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: your first dribble is what he calls a re-dribble.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're reading how the defense is playing.
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  SPEAKER_00: Are they going to switch?
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  SPEAKER_00: Are they going to hedge?
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  SPEAKER_00: Are they...
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, or they drop and, you know, whatever the case may be.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you use that.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a probe dribble.
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  SPEAKER_00: How are they playing?
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  SPEAKER_00: And then the next dribble is what he calls a separation dribble,
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  SPEAKER_00: where you're now separating from,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the defense in some sort of way.
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  SPEAKER_00: And also that can also include rejecting the screen and going baseline.
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  SPEAKER_00: But that's what he calls a separation dribble.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then the third dribble,
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  SPEAKER_00: he would call a and sometimes even a fourth dribble,
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  SPEAKER_00: a scoring dribble.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's where,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: maybe use that dribble to get into the paint yourself to score,
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  SPEAKER_00: get into the paint to,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: draw help,
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  SPEAKER_00: put pressure on the,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the post defender.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then you make either the,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the little pocket pass or the scoring pass to the roller.
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  the scoring pass on a,
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  on a kickout or,
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  you know,
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  where you're scoring yourself.
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  SPEAKER_00: So kind of those three parts.
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  And he used to always refer to it as a game within a game,
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  you know,
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  that pick and roll.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think why he liked it so much.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now let's face it.
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  SPEAKER_00: He had a pretty damn good receiver,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: to go with them in Carl Malone,
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  SPEAKER_00: but so have my,
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  SPEAKER_00: my point guards,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: they've they've also had great receivers.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
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  I like the way he kind of put that,
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  a re-dribble,
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  separation dribble,
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  and a scoring dribble.
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  And sometimes that scoring dribble might lead to an extra
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  dribble as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: For him, it was all about angles.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think when I see players that have – that struggle –
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  SPEAKER_00: They try to make that pass to the roller a little early.
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  SPEAKER_00: They just don't have the angle and makes it a difficult catch.
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  And sometimes that player that does catch it,
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  they can't really see what's in front of them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I see that a lot.
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  And then I also see a lot of players that come off a ball
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  screen and then they pick
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  SPEAKER_00: it up after one dribble.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's obviously a no-no.
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  SPEAKER_00: You want to keep that dribble alive.
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  SPEAKER_00: Even if they hard hedge,
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  SPEAKER_00: even if they try to trap you,
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  SPEAKER_00: we use just a retreat dribble or two if a team tries to trap.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that way you draw on the defense away from the basket.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you have to make an athletic play.
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  SPEAKER_00: And once you can get it out of that trap, you're four on three.
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  And your chances of scoring,
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  oftentimes with an open three-pointer,
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  you know,
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  become greater.
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  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned in there rejecting,
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  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there was once upon a time or even kind of a younger levels,
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  SPEAKER_02: ball handlers,
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  SPEAKER_02: they're going to use that screen,
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  SPEAKER_02: whether or not it's actually doing what it's supposed to be doing.
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  And it doesn't matter if the defense jumped it or if it wasn't
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  a good screen,
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  SPEAKER_02: they're getting around the corner there.
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  You all purposefully reject a lot of times and it still creates
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  what you want.
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  SPEAKER_02: Correct?
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  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: And Sabrina was great at that.
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  She,
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  especially on the left side of the floor,
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  she would reject a lot of screens.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think you can pick that up if you really pay attention on Synergy,
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  SPEAKER_00: that on the left side of the floor,
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  SPEAKER_00: she was going to reject it about 70% of the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think it creates exactly what you want.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
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  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
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  You're not necessarily just trying to score out of the pick and
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  roll action yourself.
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  SPEAKER_00: What you're trying to do is start the domino.
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  You know,
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  to where you've got the tagger and then the helper and,
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  you know,
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  all that stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you're just ultimately trying to get an open shot out of it.
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  It may be from,
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  you know,
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  scoring directly off the screen with the ball handler.
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  SPEAKER_00: It may be on the roll,
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  but oftentimes it's the kick out and then the extra pass that
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  you're going to get
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  SPEAKER_00: out of it,
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  SPEAKER_00: out of a scrambling defense.
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  So I think sometimes people think you have to score out of the
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  pick and roll action itself.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's not necessarily the case.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's harder for younger kids.
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  SPEAKER_02: I saw,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: Sabrina,
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  SPEAKER_02: as I watched what she did,
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  she almost had the mentality of I'm going to attack space to
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  come make somebody
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  else come guard me to start those dominoes so that then my
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  teammate can get the
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  SPEAKER_02: shot that they want.
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  And that seems to be harder for younger players because they
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  think the pick and
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  SPEAKER_02: roll is for me to make something happen for me or for the roller.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's why Sabrina was so good at it.
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  SPEAKER_00: She's,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: to the core,
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  SPEAKER_00: even though she scored over 2,000 points,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the only player in college basketball history,
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  SPEAKER_00: male or female,
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  SPEAKER_00: to go 2K,
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  SPEAKER_00: 1K,
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  SPEAKER_00: 1K,
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  SPEAKER_00: scoring,
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  SPEAKER_00: rebound,
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  SPEAKER_00: assists.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was, to the core, a pass-first player.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what made her so effective.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, coming in to Oregon, though, she was a dribble drive.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's all she had ever done.
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  SPEAKER_00: Dribble drive, dribble drive, dribble drive.
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  SPEAKER_00: She was not real good in the pick and roll early on.
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  But the kind of person that she is,
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  she,
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  you know,
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  just worked every day to master that.
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  And then in the end became maybe the best pick and roll player
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  in the history of
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  SPEAKER_00: our game on our side.
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  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, like you said, it's not necessarily to score out of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's the score off it.
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  And I think that most are realizing now like ball screen was
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  once two player action
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  SPEAKER_02: and now it's a five player action,
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  SPEAKER_02: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can be.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm old school in terms of,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: if you run a continuity,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: and you're getting side,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: top side with the ball,
• 12:56
  then it's not always in the hands of your best ball handler or
• 13:00
  decision maker.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: We like to send a non-ball handler through.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have them cut through,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's off a pin down action,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: they'll,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:10
  they'll reject that screen and curl and the point guard will
• 13:13
  bounce back to the
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: ball or whatever.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But we're always sending that player through.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually came from John as well,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: because I asked him,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I said,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: what happens when,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: the ball's in Hornacek's hands?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: maybe a lot of your audience that didn't even remember Jeff Hornacek,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: but he goes,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's never in his hands.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's the recipient of my passes.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always in John's hands.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just like when court,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: when I had Banderslut at Gonzaga for those four years,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: it was always in her hands.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now here at Oregon,
• 13:42
  I've been blessed to have other really good ball handlers and
• 13:45
  decision makers out
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: of pick and roll.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: My take is Orla played three of her four years with Sabrina and
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And technically was our point guard all the time.
• 13:54
  You know,
• 13:54
  we viewed her as a point and Sabrina Moore as a combination or
• 13:58
  off guard.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: and Maite played in the WNBA a season and still would be,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: but she's opted to just stay in her homeland,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Spain,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: and play professionally.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then now we have Tejina Pow Pow, India Rogers.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two really elite guys.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: guards, both all Pac-12 players that can play out of pick and roll.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now we've got two players on the court,
• 14:19
  so we can swing the ball or get it to either one of them and
• 14:24
  let them go out of the
• 14:25
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• 15:19
  Is there anything that you like to do with the other three that
• 15:23
  aren't in the action?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because again,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: once upon a time,
• 15:26
  it was stand in space and let the ball handler make something
• 15:29
  happen for you.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: But especially at the higher levels,
• 15:32
  you're seeing more off the ball that's at least trying to
• 15:36
  occupy help defenders to
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: create something.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to do that on the weak side.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you have two guards on the weak side,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: just a simple screen up or screen down,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: doesn't matter,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: just to get the defense moving a little bit.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: if you have a corner player and you have a side ball screen,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: you've got the throwback option as they lift.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: which can be very, very effective.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just you're it's key to just keep them spaced,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: either in the high weak side slot,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: definitely in the corners and then just go from there.
• 16:12
  You had mentioned you kind of shied a little bit away of the
• 16:15
  side ball screen.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it more so of the reasoning behind that being the spacing of it?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think a little bit.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think plus the defenses are getting better.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of teams ice.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a guard in the corner,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know, it's, it's a little harder.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then therefore we pitch a lot more out of it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: we've,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: we've actually done a lot more pitch action and get,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: go get the ball then,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: then ball screens when it's on the side.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's just different ways.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, you know,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: teams will trap a little bit more,
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:49
  cause we've had elite guards and the one thing to do that's had
• 16:52
  some effectiveness
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: of teams will,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: will trap us really aggressively.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, that, that sideline can hurt you over there.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we we've opted to do just a lot more in the middle third.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about transition.
• 17:05
  Do you personally like early ball screens or would you prefer
• 17:09
  it move side to side
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: before you,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: before you set something on the ball?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: We actually run some ball screen action out of the pistol in transition.
• 17:18
  So,
• 17:19
  you know,
• 17:19
  so we get some of that early,
• 17:21
  you know,
• 17:21
  some drags out of transition.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: the analytics will say the more sides of the floor you go,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: the better your scoring efficiency is.
• 17:33
  So,
• 17:33
  yeah,
• 17:34
  I love to get the ball to the second,
• 17:35
  third side of the floor if you can.
• 17:38
  But if you can turn the corner on the very first to make
• 17:41
  something happen,
• 17:42
  then go for it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you take your first scoring opportunity.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think analytics will say that the longer the possession,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes the more efficient you can be.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm watching more men's on the men's side.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this may not be the case, but I get, I'm guessing that it probably is.
• 18:03
  I typically see ball screens that are moving the ball handler
• 18:06
  towards the middle of the floor.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't we see more of those step up ball screens?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we do.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: We run a lot.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we run some hammer action on the weak side when we do.
• 18:17
  I think that's a great,
• 18:18
  great opportunity to get the weak side action going.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like the step up screen, to be honest with you.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we like to do that again out of transition a little bit.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Teams at ice,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: in essence,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: you're running a step-up screen against that,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: even though we'll turn our back.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: We call it a butt screen against teams at ice, but it's step-up action.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 18:40
  I think you have to have a good amount of both to keep the
• 18:44
  defense honest.
• 18:45
  Do you feel like it produces – I know you mentioned a couple of
• 18:47
  the actions off the
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: ball that it allows you to run,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: but do you feel like it does anything differently for spacing,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: for scoring at all?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and you don't have to score, again, out of that.
• 19:00
  What we get a lot out of what we'd call a butt screen or a
• 19:04
  step-up screen is,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: we will attack the baseline.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: The post, instead of rolling, you know, they'll read that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: They'll stay in the gap.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll pitch it to them and then run off them again.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: that can be pretty effective action,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: especially,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's good two man game action on the one side.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got the weak side kind of loaded up with,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: a couple of shooters on the wing,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: one in the corner,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: one on the wing,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: and then maybe one in the slot.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think something that's maybe undervalued a little bit is the screener.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And as teams rotate better,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: once the ball is thrown to the role player,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: what they do and the decision-making that goes into,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: like if you have a great decision-maker as your screener,
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: that can kill offenses.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Do you teach that?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are there things that you drill with that?
• 19:55
  Are there things that you teach them to be looking at so they
• 19:58
  recognize that?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know how much.
• 20:01
  I mean,
• 20:01
  you can teach it and they can get better at it,
• 20:03
  you know,
• 20:03
  through repetition and stuff.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of that is just innate in some of the players.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 20:08
  I've had players with great hands who you think would be
• 20:12
  awesome in the pick and
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: roll and they just they're not that good.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they have someone like Ruthie Hebert,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: who,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: my goodness,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: she's as good a pick and roll center as has ever played our game.
• 20:22
  Right.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: she's just was such a great finisher,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: made good decisions,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: had a nice floater game every once in a while.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sabrina had hit her early and and she was really, really good.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Had a soft touch at the floater game.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: For those that don't know,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ruthie,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: in the middle of her sophomore year,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: set an NCAA record,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: both again,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: men's and women's record.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: She made 33 straight field goals and it was in the middle of Pac-12 play.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: She was going against other pros at the time.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like we were doing it against some soft preseason schedule.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: 33 baskets in a row.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when Billis was commenting on it one day on SportsCenter,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: he goes,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:03
  there are people who can't make 33 layups by themselves in a
• 21:06
  row out one on O,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: just out playing by themselves.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she just had a knack.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: She was a great finisher.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, part of it, she was catching and finishing.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't have to make a move necessarily,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: but she did add a really nice soft floater as a roller.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a must for everybody.
• 21:26
  I think if you're a center that's rolling,
• 21:28
  you got to have that floater action.
• 21:30
  You mentioned defenses and more defenses being able to defend
• 21:35
  it just simply
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: because I think,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: they're going against it in practice.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's something that's getting repped a lot.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So based off of that, fill in the blanks for this.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: When the defense blanks, it tends to slow down our offense.
• 21:49
  But if we can blank,
• 21:52
  we can still generate some good shots out of our actions.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: when the team ices you or downs you,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: whatever you call it,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's important to get the ball to the second side of the floor.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you may have to bypass trying to score on the first side,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: pitch it,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: get it to the second side.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And very few teams,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: are capable of icing on both sides of the floor after ball reversal.
• 22:17
  So when we see somebody that ices,
• 22:19
  we really try to get it to the second side of the floor.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: we might give the ball ahead,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: have our point guard run to the other side,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: and then get it back as,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: and then they're less likely to ice.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is switching.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: If a team switches,
• 22:38
  then I think we need to be really patient and look to attack
• 22:42
  the mismatch,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's the big on the little at the basket or
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or more importantly,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: and sometimes more effectively,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: the little against the big,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: on the perimeter.
• 22:54
  You try to attack that kid and draw help so that then you can
• 22:59
  kick it out or score,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: however you do it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So patience versus switches,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: an attack mismatch,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: and then second side of the floor against icing.
• 23:12
  Do you throw it to the second side and then immediately go ball
• 23:15
  screen that side?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for us, it's a longer sprint.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 23:22
  I think you're able to do because usually you're going to have
• 23:24
  two players on the
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: other side,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: A corner and a wing.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you can pin down.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can do some things to make the defense work harder to try and ice it.
• 23:35
  And I just haven't seen a lot of teams that are really capable
• 23:38
  of icing effectively
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: on the second and the third side of the floor.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just because they're scrambling,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: help side and then getting out,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard to get in the position.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how we've done it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, our game is different.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our team defensively, they don't cover the floor like guys do.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the center plays a bigger role in the women's game.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: than it does in the men.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: You see a lot more positionless kind of defenses and,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: and even offenses in the men's side,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: look at the NBA,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: you haven't been actually,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: there's kind of a,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: a center comeback to some degree,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: but you look in the WNBA and,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: five,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: six,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: or even seven of the top 10 scores are going to be centers.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's still pretty dominant that way.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Coaches are always asking me, all right, so you talked about this.
• 24:28
  We want to really know what the coach does to actually rep
• 24:32
  this,
• 24:33
  to prep their players.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: So what does that look like?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is it five on five?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is it three on three?
• 24:38
  What have you found that really improves their ability in the
• 24:41
  ball screen offense?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, we have practice guys.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so pretty much every day,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: or at least every other day,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: we'll scrimmage live against our guys in small groups.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it might even be two on two.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It might even be three on three.
• 24:55
  And we give our guys,
• 24:58
  you know,
• 24:58
  they've been doing it now so long,
• 25:00
  they understand.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll tell them, mix up how you defend it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Switch it sometimes, hard hedge it, drop it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ice, you know, whatever.
• 25:08
  And so our players just get kind of get used to reading that
• 25:12
  the defense pretty quick.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the only way you can do it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: You just got to rep it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we do a lot of two on two, three on three.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll also three on O we'll dummy some actions.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, through the hype, we do a lot through the high post.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So point will hit the high post and then run opposite.
• 25:30
  And then we run just a double staggered away and curl action
• 25:33
  and then pop back.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we DHO, you know, to the ball handler.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we, we try to drill it a lot.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no question about it.
• 25:43
  And,
• 25:44
  you know,
• 25:44
  you got to set some parameters with the with the defenders.
• 25:48
  But certainly when we go against teams that we know are going
• 25:51
  to ISIS like
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Stanford,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: that's something they've they've done forever.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll really drill what to do, all our ice counters, you know, that week.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Last thing you you've done.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen you do some clinics and some.
• 26:05
  So if somebody is wanting to see what you all do,
• 26:08
  where would you point them?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can just email me.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have some stuff, you know, that we send out when we do that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: You follow me on social media.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I used to drop a lot more than I do.
• 26:23
  I'm going to get back to doing that plays,
• 26:25
  different actions that we have,
• 26:26
  some workouts.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so at GoDucksKG is my handle on Twitter.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's stuff out on,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: if you just YouTube Oregon women's basketball,
• 26:41
  I think there's been some pretty good pick and roll stuff that
• 26:44
  a third party has
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: put together,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something we did necessarily.
• 26:50
  Yeah,
• 26:50
  I'll be sure to link a few of those down in the description so
• 26:52
  people can check those out.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's Coach Kelly Graves, head coach for the Oregon Ducks.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for coming on the show, Coach.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was fantastic.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Tony, my pleasure, man.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it again, okay?