Latest / Paging America / MAGA's Health Plan: Higher Costs & Cutting Cancer Research | LIVE with Dr. Rob Davidson & Susan Demas

Transcript

MAGA's Health Plan: Higher Costs & Cutting Cancer Research | LIVE with Dr. Rob Davidson & Susan Demas · Paging America

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the pandemic because,
0:02
SPEAKER_01: you know,
0:02
SPEAKER_01: you did become a really strong voice,
0:05
SPEAKER_01: not just in Michigan,
0:06
but nationally against medical disinformation and about health
0:11
measures to prevent
0:12
SPEAKER_01: the spread of COVID and about vaccines.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: And now we have probably the biggest anti-vaxxer in the country,
0:20
SPEAKER_01: who is the head of our Department of Health and Human Services,
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Robert F.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Kennedy Jr.,
0:26
SPEAKER_01: So what impact is this having on people's health?
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
0:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
0:31
I think many of the actions this guy is taking and has taking
0:36
and just simply
0:36
SPEAKER_00: having the megaphone he has,
0:38
SPEAKER_00: I think,
0:38
SPEAKER_00: has had an impact in a few ways.
0:42
I think starting with the most recent development of him
0:45
basically canceling mRNA
0:47
SPEAKER_00: research,
0:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
0:50
SPEAKER_00: incorrectly stating,
0:51
SPEAKER_00: and I think intentionally incorrectly stating,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: that they're looking for safer avenues.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I think they said that,
0:59
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Americans have lost faith in that,
1:02
SPEAKER_00: have lost faith in the institutions,
1:04
SPEAKER_00: and so,
1:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:05
SPEAKER_00: they have to kind of take a turn.
1:07
But he is the purveyor of the misinformation and disinformation
1:10
that has led to
1:12
SPEAKER_00: people losing faith,
1:13
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Or a segment of the population losing faith.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: It's the ultimate bad faith argument.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: It is, right?
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So they're the ones who are breaking it,
1:21
SPEAKER_00: and then they come and say,
1:22
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:22
SPEAKER_00: it's broken,
1:23
SPEAKER_00: so we've got to go back to something different.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And the reality is,
1:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:27
SPEAKER_00: the mRNA,
1:28
SPEAKER_00: the platform,
1:28
it's really just a technology that's been in development for a
1:32
decade before
1:32
SPEAKER_00: COVID-19 was something that anyone ever uttered.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that can create vaccines on a rapid scale,
1:39
SPEAKER_00: like we saw in the pandemic,
1:41
SPEAKER_00: and saved millions of lives forever.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Without a doubt.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Which,
1:45
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:46
SPEAKER_01: we should know,
1:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Operation Warp Speed did,
1:49
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:50
that most of that took place under the first Trump
1:53
administration and arguably
1:55
SPEAKER_01: arguably was like his greatest achievement.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: And now his health secretary is trying to
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: So,
2:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
2:19
SPEAKER_00: essentially,
2:20
SPEAKER_00: brain tumors,
2:21
SPEAKER_00: glioblastoma,
2:22
SPEAKER_00: one of the most deadly tumors you could be diagnosed with.
2:24
Probably 95% of people are dead within five years,
2:27
I think is the numbers.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And there were trials going on,
2:31
SPEAKER_00: have been trials going on,
2:32
looking at hijacking the body's immune system using the mRNA
2:36
technology to make
2:37
SPEAKER_00: antibodies directed against tumor cells.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: So, currently, you treat most cancers.
2:42
There's a lot of treatments like this with using immunology,
2:46
using targeted treatment.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: But
2:47
SPEAKER_00: What people think of with cancer is chemotherapy.
2:49
You take a drug that kills cancer cells,
2:51
but it also kills good cells,
2:52
right?
2:53
That's why people get so sick and they lose their hair and
2:55
their bone marrow dies
2:56
SPEAKER_00: and they get incredibly ill.
2:58
And this is a technology that could allow people to actually
3:02
treat their tumors,
3:02
SPEAKER_00: not die from these horrible diseases,
3:05
SPEAKER_00: and also not get so sick and have all these terrible side effects.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: And this guy just said, yeah, we're going to throw that away because...
3:14
SPEAKER_00: He decided that people were didn't trust it.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: But of course, we know why they didn't trust it.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talked about Trump and Operation Warp Speed.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it may have been his only achievement,
3:26
SPEAKER_00: at least in my opinion,
3:27
SPEAKER_00: certainly on the health care side,
3:28
but maybe across the board that that helped such a significant
3:32
number of people.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: The fact that he did not run on that when he was running for re-election,
3:37
SPEAKER_00: the fact that he didn't run on that is mind-boggling.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Any other president in history,
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Republican,
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Democrat,
3:43
SPEAKER_00: anyone,
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SPEAKER_00: that would have been on every bumper sticker,
3:47
SPEAKER_00: right?
3:47
On every sign at every rally because it was,
3:51
and we couldn't refute it,
3:52
right?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: He didn't do it, but he was president when it happened.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: You get to take credit, right?
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Jobs will go up, jobs go down.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: You get blamed, you get credit.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: This happened when he was there.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: This should be coming out of his mouth every day.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And instead, he's empowered RFK Jr.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: to run that agency and basically run it into the ground.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time,
4:13
SPEAKER_01: we've seen these massive cutbacks in research for all sorts of diseases,
4:19
SPEAKER_01: all sorts of medical research grants that hospitals and universities,
4:26
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:26
SPEAKER_01: had been receiving and they're now being cut off.
4:28
And so it's like a full-on assault of our medical
4:33
infrastructure,
4:34
our research infrastructure.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think the Trump administration is doing this?
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Boy, it's really hard to say.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: They talk about woke, right?
4:46
They talk about these institutions,
4:49
I guess,
4:50
somehow coming down against what Trump stands for.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: The so-called woke agenda, I guess, is what they're railing against.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: It feels like they have a real problem with
5:02
SPEAKER_00: like truce, right, and science.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the core of science.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: It was the core of the pandemic response.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Not everything was done right throughout that process.
5:11
It was like building the plane as you're flying it when it came
5:14
to trying to save lives.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I know that.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: We know that.
5:17
Maybe public health folks didn't communicate that as well as
5:20
they could have.
5:21
I would say that's probably the only offense we can say,
5:24
yeah,
5:24
okay,
5:25
myself included.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we didn't
5:27
SPEAKER_00: to lay it out as well,
5:28
the things that we knew were going on that didn't get out there
5:31
to the public as
5:32
SPEAKER_00: well as it could have.
5:33
But the reality is that we were always seeking the correct
5:38
answer in medicine,
5:39
SPEAKER_00: in science,
5:40
SPEAKER_00: hopefully in our lives.
5:41
We're always seeking some degree of ultimate truth,
5:44
whether it exists or not.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: And to help people, to save lives.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: That's the ultimate truth.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And that feels an antiquated calculus for this president,
5:53
SPEAKER_00: right,
5:53
SPEAKER_00: and this administration,
5:54
SPEAKER_00: seeking out truth and actually speaking truth.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: just doesn't seem like a currency they deal in very often.
6:00
So sort of,
6:01
you know,
6:02
getting rid of research,
6:03
that probably doesn't came up at night.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And so... But that's going to affect us all.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
6:09
SPEAKER_01: whether you voted for Trump or you voted for Harris or,
6:14
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:15
SPEAKER_01: you're rich or poor,
6:16
SPEAKER_01: obviously it will probably have more of an impact on you,
6:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:20
SPEAKER_01: the less access to health care that you have.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: But in general, I mean, what we saw with the pandemic...
6:26
there were plenty of prominent people who died of COVID,
6:31
like Herman Cain,
6:33
big Trump supporter.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, disease can come for anyone.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: And so,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: this sort of haphazard approach to,
6:42
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:43
SPEAKER_01: well-established scientific research,
6:47
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:48
SPEAKER_01: it's going to affect us all.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And it
6:51
SPEAKER_01: You know,
6:51
SPEAKER_01: the only explanation I can come up with is just that,
6:55
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:56
SPEAKER_01: authoritarians like to control the flow of information.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: They want to control people.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: And,
7:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:01
SPEAKER_01: even if this will cut against them or their family members in some ways,
7:06
SPEAKER_01: it seems like that's the greater goal because,
7:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:10
SPEAKER_01: telling people like,
7:11
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
7:11
SPEAKER_01: we want to stop research into a cancer vaccine.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why would anyone think that's a good thing?
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Well,
7:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
7:18
at one point I remember he said he was against research on
7:21
transgender mice,
7:22
SPEAKER_00: and that was a problem he had with the researchers.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: But it was actually transgenic mice,
7:27
SPEAKER_00: and it was basically using genomes of one species and another.
7:30
And you can have ethical issues with research on mice,
7:33
and I think that's a valid thing to have.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just that complete lack of understanding.
7:38
And then you combine that with this sense of ultimate power and
7:42
the unitary
7:43
SPEAKER_00: executive that he has been handed and that his supporters within the
7:47
SPEAKER_00: administration,
7:48
SPEAKER_00: almost to a person now,
7:49
SPEAKER_00: completely support it.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: And you do get what you said.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: You know,
7:53
you control the flow of information and you try to cut off the
7:57
most accurate
7:59
SPEAKER_00: information,
8:00
SPEAKER_00: whether it serves you,
8:01
SPEAKER_00: whether it serves your supporters,
8:03
SPEAKER_00: whether it serves the people you're supposedly representing or not.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And it seems like
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:31
highlighting the damage that this administration and this
8:34
Congress and this health
8:35
SPEAKER_00: secretary,
8:37
SPEAKER_00: the damage they're doing to those institutions,
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SPEAKER_00: but really to the people in the end.
8:41
We don't know 20 years from now the diseases we won't be able
8:45
to treat because of
8:46
SPEAKER_00: this,
8:47
SPEAKER_00: but we know they will be significant.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: You know,
8:51
SPEAKER_00: the good thing about this,
8:52
SPEAKER_00: different than the Medicaid cuts,
8:53
SPEAKER_00: the Medicaid cuts are terrible and probably generational,
8:56
SPEAKER_00: right?
8:56
SPEAKER_00: When hospitals close, they don't just open back up in January of 2029.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully,
9:01
SPEAKER_00: right,
9:01
hopefully we can keep this kind of in play and we can turn this
9:06
back on at some
9:08
SPEAKER_00: point in the less than distant future.
9:10
So that's,
9:11
I guess,
9:11
hopeful and also a reason for people to stay engaged and
9:14
understand that
9:16
Kind of who is in charge in the next two years and the next
9:19
four years has a
9:19
SPEAKER_00: dramatic impact on so many parts of our life,
9:21
SPEAKER_00: but certainly on people's future health.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: That's really critically important.
9:25
So they got to keep that in mind when they're voting in the
9:27
next couple of years and four years.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Well,
9:31
SPEAKER_01: the anti-vax movement was gaining in popularity long before COVID,
9:37
SPEAKER_01: I would say,
9:38
SPEAKER_01: for at least a couple of decades.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've read countless articles.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Usually it's about nice suburban moms who are just asking questions.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're concerned about their kids' health, you know,
9:55
concerned because their children are autistic and looking for,
10:00
you know,
10:01
solutions or answers.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: But,
10:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:06
I'm wondering if one of the reasons why you've decided to
10:09
launch Paging America is
10:11
SPEAKER_01: because,
10:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:12
SPEAKER_01: the mainstream media
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Media has not been doing its job in separating fact from fiction,
10:18
SPEAKER_01: conspiracy theories from fact.
10:22
You know,
10:22
do you think that they bear some responsibility for the point
10:27
that we're at right now?
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's frustrating.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: It's that old adage,
10:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:32
SPEAKER_00: if someone says it's raining and someone says it's not,
10:34
SPEAKER_00: the job is not to say it.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Some people say one cent to the other.
10:37
Just open your head and put your head out the window and see if
10:39
it's raining,
10:40
right?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And so the data is all there.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: The vast,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
10:45
just volumes of research telling us that there is not a link
10:48
between vaccines and
10:49
SPEAKER_00: autism.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's really,
10:52
it's not only is it misinformation and damaging to the movement
10:56
to actually promote
10:57
SPEAKER_00: vaccines and to promote health.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: It's really,
10:59
SPEAKER_00: I think,
11:01
SPEAKER_00: cruel to these parents,
11:03
SPEAKER_00: to these suburban moms,
11:04
SPEAKER_00: to these families,
11:05
SPEAKER_00: because they have a child.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have three kids.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: I love my kids more than anything in the world.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: You do anything for them, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_00: You take a bullet, you give your life for them, of course.
11:16
And they have a kid who's afflicted with a disease,
11:19
and even on mild forms of the spectrum,
11:23
SPEAKER_00: present real challenges with severe autism,
11:25
SPEAKER_00: like massive challenges to people in their lives,
11:28
SPEAKER_00: both the individual and the families.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And you're giving them something, right?
11:33
You're giving them an answer because the reality is medical
11:36
research hasn't given
11:38
SPEAKER_00: an absolute answer.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: It's probably many,
11:40
SPEAKER_00: many factors,
11:41
SPEAKER_00: some environmental,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: some genetic,
11:43
SPEAKER_00: some triggers,
11:45
SPEAKER_00: some we just don't know.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: You know,
11:47
SPEAKER_01: there's also the fact that,
11:49
SPEAKER_01: you know,
11:49
SPEAKER_01: there's much more diagnosis now for autism than there ever was.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's not like there's been this explosion necessarily.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: But the way that like RFK Jr.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: talks about people who are autistic,
12:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
12:02
SPEAKER_01: clearly he he sees them as being less than,
12:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:07
SPEAKER_01: and he's exploiting people.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:11
SPEAKER_01: people's fears and concerns,
12:14
SPEAKER_01: people who love their children,
12:16
SPEAKER_01: who love their family members.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: But clearly he doesn't share that opinion.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: He sees this as something that is a defect, which it clearly is not.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's just that's damaging in and of itself,
12:30
SPEAKER_01: aside from the damage he has inflicted in terms of vaccines.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: And let's be real, right?
12:36
SPEAKER_00: It all comes down to the grift and the profit.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: And he's made a lot of money off of that rhetoric.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: He's made a ton of money off of lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: And so,
12:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:47
SPEAKER_00: like everyone else seems in this administration,
12:50
SPEAKER_00: you don't have to look too far.
12:51
You don't have to peel back the layers too much to see the
12:54
ultimate motive at the
12:56
SPEAKER_00: bottom of all this.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing for him and the thing for Trump,
12:59
SPEAKER_00: why Trump embraced this,
13:00
SPEAKER_00: it was a political calculation on Trump's part,
13:03
SPEAKER_00: right?
13:03
SPEAKER_00: He got a person and a block of voters.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And for that, he traded away the reins of HHS.
13:10
I don't know if Trump has strong opinions about vaccines or
13:13
research or any of it.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: I would argue probably doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: But he sure as hell wanted that group of people to vote for him,
13:21
SPEAKER_00: right,
13:22
SPEAKER_00: in a very close election.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: And he got that.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: And so he can just wash his hands and leave it all to Bobby.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And then here we are.
13:30
And then whenever he's asked about,
13:32
you know,
13:33
say,
13:34
oh,
13:34
vaccines are fine,
13:35
whatever,
13:36
and move on.
13:37
And somebody asks him another ridiculous question,
13:40
maybe about his ballroom.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there's just very little accountability there.
13:48
And,
13:49
you know,
13:50
clearly Kennedy is has just enormous power and free brain to do
13:54
what he wants.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned earlier about the Medicaid cuts.
14:01
And so I definitely want us to talk about what's in Trump's
14:05
budget bill that,
14:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:07
SPEAKER_01: was passed by the Republican Congress.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: There are just enormous cuts to Medicaid.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: There are even cuts to Medicare, the Affordable Care Act, which, you
14:20
SPEAKER_01: for,
14:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:21
SPEAKER_01: the Department of Health and Human Services,
14:23
SPEAKER_01: they've been going after Obamacare as well.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's, again, it's this two-pronged assault.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: And,
14:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:29
there are a lot of estimates as to how many people lose their
14:32
health care,
14:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:33
SPEAKER_01: anywhere from like 12 to 22 million when all is said and done.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: You know,
14:39
SPEAKER_01: which is just staggering to think about because,
14:42
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:43
nobody thinks that the health care system was running
14:45
particularly well to begin
14:47
SPEAKER_01: with before these cuts,
14:48
SPEAKER_01: you know.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: And so,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:51
and the justification for these cuts was to give more tax cuts
14:56
to rich people like
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Elon Musk.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, that that was the main reason.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: So in,
15:02
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:02
I know that these cuts are going to be phased in over time to
15:06
some degree,
15:07
SPEAKER_01: coincidentally,
15:08
SPEAKER_01: after the midterm elections for a lot of it,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: which is very cynical.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: But,
15:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:13
can you talk to us about what our health care system is going
15:16
to look like over the
15:17
SPEAKER_01: next few years and what this is really going to mean for people?
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
15:22
SPEAKER_00: I think particular people in rural communities,
15:25
SPEAKER_00: but really across systems,
15:26
SPEAKER_00: because now with consolidation of hospitals,
15:28
you have massive entities kind of owning little bits and pieces
15:31
of hospitals and
15:32
SPEAKER_00: urban places,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: suburban,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: rural areas.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: But as we take people off of the Medicaid rolls,
15:39
and particularly attacking those people with expanded Medicaid
15:42
in Michigan,
15:42
SPEAKER_00: they expanded Medicaid under the ACA,
15:45
a million people in Michigan where we both have Medicaid under
15:49
that expansion.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: When you take that away, it hurts those people, right?
15:53
And so most people,
15:55
whether they have Medicaid or know somebody,
15:57
a friend,
15:57
a family member,
15:59
SPEAKER_00: It will impact them or people they love directly.
16:02
But the other thing that happens is you have a group of people
16:06
who no longer have
16:07
SPEAKER_00: health insurance,
16:08
SPEAKER_00: but they still have needs.
16:10
They still have heart attacks and strokes and appendicitis and
16:13
other medical needs.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: And they'll come see you in the ER.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, they will.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, we have a law that says I have to see them.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that MTAL, a law that says we have to see them.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: They come in with emergency, with any complaint.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: They come in in labor.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: You have to see them.
16:28
The problem is if they don't have insurance,
16:30
they can't pay for that care.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So now you have hospitals taking on uncompensated care.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: They're not going to just absorb it, right?
16:36
So part of what they're going to have to do is cut services
16:39
because they can't keep
16:40
SPEAKER_00: everything open.
16:40
So you are going to lose labor and delivery units in many rural
16:45
places that already
16:46
SPEAKER_00: are OBGYN deserts that,
16:48
SPEAKER_00: frankly,
16:48
SPEAKER_00: in many red states with strict abortion laws since the fall of Roe v.
16:53
Wade already are deserts for OBGYN care because people are
16:57
terrified to practice in
16:58
SPEAKER_00: these places.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:59
Because if they treat someone having a miscarriage or an
17:01
ectopic pregnancy that
17:03
SPEAKER_00: isn't quite in line with some rogue prosecutor,
17:06
SPEAKER_00: they could find themselves going to jail in so many places.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: That's going to get worse.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: And when those facilities,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: either an entire hospital or a clinic or,
17:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:17
SPEAKER_00: x-ray center or a labor and delivery unit go away,
17:20
SPEAKER_00: it isn't just the Medicaid folks who don't get those services.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: It's everybody.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: If you have insurance from your workplace,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: if you have Medicare,
17:28
SPEAKER_00: if you buy insurance on the ACA exchange,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: those places go away for you,
17:33
SPEAKER_00: too.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe out of selfishness, people will recognize this.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: People voted for this, right?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: They talked about this, that we knew these tax cuts were coming down.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: We know they increased defense spending while they did this,
17:47
but the only pot of money they could find to offset some of
17:51
these tax cuts for
17:52
SPEAKER_00: millionaires and billionaires was
17:53
SPEAKER_00: was taking away health care from poor people and working people.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And they did.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: And the impacts are going to be huge.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: I work in a small rural hospital.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: We're concerned about what's going to happen.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: You say it's still after the midterms, and that's true.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: But hospitals are already making decisions based on this.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: A hospital in Curtis,
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Nebraska,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: announced that they would be closing in the next 12 months,
18:16
SPEAKER_00: I believe.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: They directly cited this bill,
18:20
that they know their revenue streams are going to go down so
18:22
significantly,
18:23
they can't continue to stay around and invest in those services
18:27
because they're
18:27
SPEAKER_00: going to go away.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: The money's going to go away.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And so people will feel it, but it's also on us.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: I personally take responsibility to make sure people know about this.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: You know,
18:36
I think you guys are doing that just by having me on and other
18:39
folks on to talk
18:40
SPEAKER_00: about it.
18:41
And I think more folks need to talk about it and hold these
18:46
politicians accountable
18:47
come next November because people have to know this is the
18:50
person who voted to get
18:51
SPEAKER_00: rid of your hospital someday.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's as plain and simple as I can make it.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's incredible because,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: a lot of the most impacted areas are rural areas that,
19:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:06
SPEAKER_01: vote in higher numbers for Republicans for Trump.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we're going.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: That's where we're seeing hospital closures start.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure it's just the beginning of it.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, they also have high rates of Medicaid as well.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And so,
19:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:23
if your hospital closes and if you're having a heart attack and
19:27
you have to travel
19:28
SPEAKER_01: 50 miles to get to the nearest hospital,
19:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
19:31
SPEAKER_01: this isn't just an abstract,
19:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:34
SPEAKER_01: argument.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: People are going to die, right?
19:37
I mean,
19:39
we are going to see a drastic increase in people suffering and
19:45
dying because of this.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And already people delay care.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: They delay care because of cost, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: I've seen this before the ACA, before expanded Medicaid.
19:54
I remember a guy waited five days coming in with chest pain
19:56
until he couldn't breathe anymore.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And he had a heart attack five days ago.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing we could do about the heart attack at that point.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: He was now in heart failure and had about half of his heart function.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: And if you came in in that first hour or first six hours or,
20:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:09
SPEAKER_00: some shorter amount of time,
20:11
SPEAKER_00: we could have rescued a significant part of his heart and not left him in
20:15
SPEAKER_00: debilitating heart failure.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: That is going to play itself out,
20:18
SPEAKER_00: not just the long transport times,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: but frankly,
20:21
SPEAKER_00: the people who say,
20:22
SPEAKER_00: I just can't afford it.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: I can't go in there and wait until it's so dire that they have no choice.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: It's, yeah, particularly cruel.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: And again,
20:31
SPEAKER_00: like you said,
20:32
particularly because it is going to most immediately and in the
20:36
soonest way affect
20:37
a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump and a lot of people
20:40
who voted for these
20:41
SPEAKER_00: members who voted to take this away from those people.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: I know another issue that has not gotten as much attention as the budget,
20:51
but the Health and Human Services Department has been looking
20:58
to have more
20:59
SPEAKER_01: aggressive oversight of a federal drug discount program,
21:05
SPEAKER_01: 340B,
21:05
SPEAKER_01: which a lot of hospitals depend on,
21:08
and they've actually been wanting it to be expanded in states
21:12
like Michigan and
21:13
SPEAKER_01: other places.
21:15
How does that fit in in terms of the situation that a lot of
21:20
hospitals are facing right now?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that allows them to deliver medications at a lower cost.
21:26
And one of the biggest drivers of health care expenses is high
21:29
drug costs.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
21:30
we at our organization have worked on prescription drug boards
21:33
in a number of
21:34
SPEAKER_00: states,
21:34
SPEAKER_00: including working on getting something through in the state of Michigan.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Because
21:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, that is the single biggest thing people are facing.
21:40
A third of people report in multiple reports over the past
21:45
several years skipping
21:46
SPEAKER_00: their meds or cutting their meds.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: I know that's a study out of Michigan.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's, again, particularly cruel.
21:53
But then you combine that with the fact that Trump just
21:56
announced massive tariffs
21:57
SPEAKER_00: on drug importation in addition to tariffs on everything else.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: It's because he wants to have them onshore the production of medications.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: And so he thinks he can slap 150,
22:09
250 percent tariffs and immediately they'll just start making
22:12
the drugs here in the
22:13
SPEAKER_00: States.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Like that isn't how production works.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: We,
22:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:17
SPEAKER_00: the guy who's kind of obsessed with buildings and factories and all that,
22:21
SPEAKER_00: it feels like that's his desire to see all this stuff being made here.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: But it's just without an actual policy in place to actually do that.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: It's just penalizing and it'll drive up costs in that respect as well.
22:33
And then again,
22:34
yeah,
22:34
the Medicaid cuts are going to just make more people have to
22:36
pay more.
22:38
And if they scale back to the 340B program,
22:42
that is going to drive up those costs as well.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: So I think you're hitting people on so many fronts.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's almost hard to keep track.
22:48
You get whiplash kind of looking in every direction on how the
22:51
ways that they're
22:52
SPEAKER_00: hurting people seemingly intentionally.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of bizarre to think about it.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: And even if,
22:57
SPEAKER_01: you know,
22:58
SPEAKER_01: you don't have Medicaid,
23:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
23:00
it seems to me that a lot of people are going to get sticker
23:03
shock with their
23:05
health care premiums next year just because you're putting so
23:08
much strain on the
23:09
SPEAKER_01: health care system.
23:11
They've announced across the board around 20 percent is going
23:14
to be the increase.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: That's the current estimate.
23:17
The other thing that is set to happen is the premium tax
23:20
credits are due to expire,
23:21
SPEAKER_00: the enhanced tax credits for the ACA.
23:23
That President Biden had signed that makes your premiums more
23:29
affordable for a lot
23:30
SPEAKER_01: of people if you're on the Obamacare exchange.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And so,
23:34
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
23:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
23:35
SPEAKER_00: we're talking,
23:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:37
SPEAKER_00: the number I just saw from Kaiser Family Foundation was a 500,
23:40
over 500 percent increase on folks making less than $25,000 a
23:44
year of their
23:45
SPEAKER_00: premiums for health care.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And so they're driving it up.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when you can't afford it, then, you know.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: You stop doing that.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: You just don't do it.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, you can go in again with MTAL.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: You can go in if you get real sick.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: You can go to the hospital and someone's going to take care of you.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's great.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: We should.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: But then you just have.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
24:04
a judge in Texas just got rid of the Biden era initiative to
24:10
not have medical debt
24:11
on the credit reports and all that medical debt is going to
24:13
make it so people can't
24:15
SPEAKER_00: buy a house,
24:15
SPEAKER_00: can't buy a car.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: It just compounds.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: And with so many folks,
24:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:21
SPEAKER_00: one muffler or one roof going bad away from nearly financial ruin.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
24:28
SPEAKER_00: how is a 500% increase in health insurance premiums,
24:30
SPEAKER_00: how is that going to play in people's lives?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be devastating.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: You know,
24:35
SPEAKER_01: for the last couple of decades,
24:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:38
we've been talking about how do we get more people to have
24:42
health insurance?
24:42
SPEAKER_01: How can we make it more affordable?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there was a lot of debate about we need Medicare for all.
24:50
And,
24:50
you know,
24:50
that was something that was really popular with kids like
24:54
Bernie Sanders.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And now here we are where we're going drastically in the other direction.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: How have we gotten to this point exactly?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I think,
25:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
25:07
SPEAKER_00: greed,
25:09
the profit-driven motive of the health care system in this
25:13
country is something you
25:14
SPEAKER_00: don't see anywhere else.
25:16
Any other industrialized country in this world has some form of
25:20
universal health care.
25:21
I was able to go practice medicine for six months about a
25:23
decade ago in New Zealand.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: And they have like a National Health Service type system,
25:27
SPEAKER_00: and that's not something I think we could fly.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: It would be like a VA system for everyone.
25:31
But it was another country out there in the world where people
25:35
could come in and
25:37
SPEAKER_00: not have to think about,
25:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
25:38
SPEAKER_00: if I broke my ankle or if I'm having belly pain or chest pain,
25:41
SPEAKER_00: how am I going to pay for the care?
25:42
SPEAKER_00: How am I going to pay for that surgery?
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:45
It was part of the contract they had with each other in their
25:48
society,
25:49
right?
25:49
And it's strange for me to think having a career in medicine
25:53
that's now over 25 years—
25:58
SPEAKER_00: It felt like going through that process,
26:00
it was just table stakes that we all kind of wanted more people
26:03
to be healthier and
26:05
SPEAKER_00: we wanted more people to be able to afford health care.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: And this,
26:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
26:09
SPEAKER_00: this administration,
26:10
really the entire Republican Party with the vote they took on
26:13
their big bill is
26:15
SPEAKER_00: pretty much said,
26:16
SPEAKER_00: no,
26:16
SPEAKER_00: that's not the case.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: A huge, huge segment, at least of the political class.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't agree with that.
26:22
They'd rather give those tax cuts to the billionaires than give
26:25
health care to,
26:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:26
SPEAKER_00: working and folks and poor folks.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, we were talking much earlier before we came on.
26:36
So I think the event that you and I met at in 2018 was a
26:42
progressive women's
26:43
SPEAKER_01: alliance meeting that I was speaking at.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And that was back when you were running for for Congress in West.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And so as a Democrat.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And so do you think that you'll ever run for office again?
26:56
SPEAKER_01: No,
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I tell you what,
26:59
everything I've done sort of from that point on has been sort
27:02
of very focused on
27:03
SPEAKER_00: sort of my my reaction to this system that we have,
27:07
the health care system and those politicians who have abused
27:11
the patients I've
27:11
SPEAKER_00: taken care of over the years so much.
27:14
That run really was based on that in a heavily Republican
27:17
district that really had
27:19
SPEAKER_00: very little chance of having real success.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: But interestingly,
27:22
SPEAKER_01: the person that you ran against,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Bill Huizinga,
27:25
SPEAKER_01: who's still a congressman,
27:27
SPEAKER_01: his district is quite different and he is vulnerable this time.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: So maybe you did help soften him up a little bit.
27:33
Maybe a little bit,
27:34
but really that was about health care as well,
27:36
right?
27:36
SPEAKER_00: That was when they were coming after the ACA.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And I saw this guy basically saying,
27:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:42
the line that really got me going was we need people to have
27:45
skin in the game.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And my response to that was this is literal flesh and blood, right?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: You're talking skin in the game.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: This is actual skin.
27:52
People are sacrificing their lives because of your guys' desire
27:56
to just help rich
27:57
SPEAKER_00: people and take health care away from everybody else.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was a lifetime ago.
28:01
I think this this project definitely a lot bigger scale and
28:07
hopefully can can
28:09
enhance the ability at least to keep people in the know of
28:12
what's really going on
28:13
SPEAKER_00: out there.
28:14
And hopefully we can change the trajectory over the next two to
28:16
four years of where
28:17
SPEAKER_00: health care is going in this country by changing,
28:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:20
SPEAKER_00: who's actually in charge of making those decisions.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
28:24
SPEAKER_01: well,
28:25
SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that just like in 2018,
28:27
SPEAKER_01: healthcare will be a huge issue in the 2026 election.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'm happy to have you here in the independent journalism space where,
28:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:38
SPEAKER_01: we do deal in facts,
28:40
SPEAKER_01: not necessarily in just,
28:42
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:42
SPEAKER_01: presenting both sides,
28:44
SPEAKER_01: even if one side is conspiracy theory and the other is a fact.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm looking forward to talking with you more as we get
28:52
closer to the 2026 election about really what the stakes are
28:56
for health care and
28:57
SPEAKER_01: what we can do.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be watching what you guys are up to as well.
29:03
And hopefully folks watching this will come on over to Paging
29:06
America Substack and,
29:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:07
SPEAKER_00: we'll try to do our best to keep it on the level of real information,
29:12
sort of trying to help fight back against the actual
29:15
disinformation and help move
29:17
SPEAKER_00: us all forward in the right direction.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Great.
29:19
And where else can people find the Committee to Protect
29:23
Healthcare on social media
29:24
SPEAKER_01: and other platforms?
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: CommitteeToProtect.org is a website,
29:29
SPEAKER_00: particularly physicians,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: other healthcare workers out there who want to get involved.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: We'd love you to join up.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: We've got lots of things going on, lots of actions that people can take.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:39
And then the Paging America Substack,
29:41
kind of our newest venture as a project of that.
29:44
And Paging America,
29:45
the podcast out there on all the platforms people can find
29:47
podcasts.
29:48
We'd love them to come take a listen and hopefully join up and
29:51
join the movement.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Great.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here, doctor.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: And thank you to all of you for joining us as well.