Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Mastering Off-Road Techniques: Throttle, Eyes, and Strategy with Emily Miller

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Mastering Off-Road Techniques: Throttle, Eyes, and Strategy with Emily Miller · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Ovillain Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: host Matt Scott and I'm with my illustrious co host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady. That's right, and we have one of my
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: favorite people in the world here today, Emily Miller. You
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: may know her from the Rebel Rally and led a
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: lot of other things that she's done. So thanks for
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: being on. It's been incredibly overdue for you to be here.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely lovely.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I don't underwhelm you.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: And a special thanks to Warner, home of the Ineos
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Grenadier and the Mercedes Benz Van Center.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Warner.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: Whether you're traveling through Canning Country in your sprinter or
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: across continents in your Grenadier, Warner has become a trusted
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: stop for serious overlanders. I have personally serviced my quartermaster
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: at Warner and have seen the work they do to
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: their successful Rebel Rally competition. Grenadier's Matt Scott has experience
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Warner II helping his father in law by a Grenadier
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: from the dealership a few months ago. Warner has become
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: known for supporting travelers in both Grenadier's and sprinters, whether
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: it's outfitting, maintenance or helping with complex expedition builds. I
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: have seen their team contribute to the community through sponsoring events,
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: Rebel Rally teams, vehicle training, and remote technical support. It
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: also helps that Tony Warner is an Overlander himself, so
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: he is committed to fitting high quality components and helping
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: fellow travelers. As a thank you for the podcast listeners,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: they are offering five hundred dollars off a new or
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: used INEOS or sprinter, or ten percent off parts and
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: service up to five hundred bucks. Just tell them you
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: heard about it on the Overland Journal podcast. Thanks again,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Tony and the Warner team for your support of this
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: week's podcast. Ever, you never have and you've been on
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: Bulikan test of this, but you have been on the
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: top of our list for years now to get on
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: the podcast. So the fact that we finally got a chance.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: To I said I was going to quit if you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: didn't get at That's true story.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So the Rebel Rally is a multi day how many
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: days it's twelve or now eleven days, eleven days, so
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: it's an eleven day navigation rally that takes place.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Jeez.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: It started in usually it goes mainly in Nevada. It
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: started in California a few times. Usually ends around Glamos.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: It's what one thousand kilometers more than that now.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: It's about twenty five kilometer.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Twenty five hundred kilometers is crazy.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: It is long. It's technically the longest endurance offered rally
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: in the United States. So it's eight days of stages,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: and it's primarily in Nevada. In California, and the reason
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: is you have the largest sections of uninterrupted public land,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: so that you're not having to do a small section
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and then hop off on a pavement and drive around
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: private land or a wilderness area. And so the other
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: thing that I love about California and Nevada is you
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: have these amazing opportunities to have every stage feel different.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: We went up to some great areas in Canada, We've
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: been to some other places across the country and done
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: some one or two day kind of experiments, but after
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: a while everything looks the same. But in California Nevada also,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: like the borders of Utah and Arizona, you can drive
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: fifty kilometers and then it feels like you're on the moon,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: and then it feels like you're in the middle of
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: high alpine and so it keeps everybody super interested. So
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: that's motivation for staying in this part of the world.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Is it makes for a super epic Muldi Day rally.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: And I would suspect that it also just really helps
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: with logistics because so many of your sponsors are going
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: to be based in the Southwest. Many of your competitors
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: just geographically are going to be based in the Southwest,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: so it probably just makes it easier to handle.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you would think so. At first it started that way,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: but now we have really reached so many people across
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: the country and now across the globe. We have a
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: lot of partners that are even from the East coast.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: But it's really great because you don't have to worry
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: about people driving onto private land. Sure, and that's getting
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: shut down.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah sure. And where are you finding that most of
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: your international competitors are coming from.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Really, they've been coming from let's say, Canada, England, France,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: New Zealand, South Africa.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but the rally's really been filling up, so we
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: have a lot of international interest. But then the rally
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: fills up so fast when we open it that even
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: with time zones, we find that things can fill up
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: in hours. So if you're listening to this and it's
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: an international.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, adjust your clocks. Yeah, adjust your clocks for sure.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And it's just been so cool to see not only
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: how successful that the event has been overall, but how
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: its profile has grown, how its reputation internationally has grown,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: and also how the caliber of competition continues to elevate.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: And for me, that's always a good sign of health
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: within any event, is that new people are coming in,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: people of higher profile are coming in, manufacturers are paying
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: more attention to it. To me, I think it's one
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: of the most important events that we have in motorsports
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and travel and rallying in the entire country.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Is there a single automotive manufacturer that doesn't do the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Rebel Rally? You have so many now it's crazy.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: A couple I can call it.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Let's do that. Yeah, let's call them on the carpet.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: It was interesting. I was on the first Rebel Rally
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: and to see how it's grown. This is the tenth anniversary.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: It's the tenth anniversary. It feels like it's been going
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: on forever and it started yesterday. All in the same time.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: The first when we had a rally of our own.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It was fun.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: It was fun. We had a lot of stories that
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: might not be able to be told. That's all getting lost.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, if you're not getting lost, you're not having
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: fun for sure. So I would love to back up
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit so that people because people know the
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Emily Miller that is the leader of this incredible organization
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: that's made an impact into so many people's lives. But
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: there had to have been a series of events in
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: your own life that brought you to that point that
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the Rebel Rally was even possible. So can you please
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: give us, take as much time as you need, but
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: tell us about the events that you competed in, the
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: racing that you did, the international racing that you did.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Your own business helped paint the picture of what made
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: not only the Rebel Rally possible, but in my opinion,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the reason why it's been so successful.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, we'll make this really fast, and then we'll
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: go back to the manufacturer. We haven't done the rally.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: We're going to call him out. We're ready. We are,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: We're ready.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Because we designed it for them. It's designed for stock
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: manufacturer vehicles. Yeah, so they should all be there.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: It is such a shame that Pegani is not there.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Can you believe it?
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Hopefully they're calling on Monday. So I guess the quick
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: story is I came from a background. Actually my degree
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: is more in sports medicine. I always say I have
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: a kind of glorified pe degree. But I got an
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: opportunity to race for a legend, which is Rod Hall.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: He passed away. I called him my dirt dad. He
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: was amazing. He's one of the most winning racers in
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: the history of uff road.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: So consistent, yeah, so consistent.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: He still has the longest string of unbroken race winds
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: at thirty five race wins. Just amazing, and I was
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: very fortunate that he taught me how to drive off road.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I met him at a meeting. I own a sports
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: marketing company and I had worked with tourism authorities, different clients,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: all in the sports world. I came from a background
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: to myself. I'm avid skier, cyclist, snowboarder, loved the back country,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: very comfortable in the back country, and I love cars,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: love cars. My dad loved cars. But I had never
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: raced cars and never really thought I had the ability
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: to the financial means too. Et cetera. And Rod asked
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: me to race for his team and drive one of
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: his cars. He had a multi car team, and he said, look,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I can teach you how to drive, I can teach
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: you how to race, but you're gonna have to learn
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: how to win. But I got to learn from the best.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: This is a guy who raced every single Baja one
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: thousand for fifty years. He's the only person who had
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: done that. He knew every rock in the desert. He
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: knew every rock in the desert in California and Nevada,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: probably Australia. He'd been around the world, and he said, look,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: the best way to see the world, like really see
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: the world is from behind the windshield. Because if you
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: have those skills, the skills that you're going to get
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: from racing, you're gonna learn patience. I thought he was crazy.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: What do you mean you're gonna learn patience from racing? Said,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: You're gonna learn patience, but you're also going to see
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: things you would never have seen as just the regular tourist.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: You're going to go to places, you're going to meet people,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: You're going to experience cultures in a way you never
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: would have And I love Baja. I love the desert Southwest,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: but he was right, and he put that bug and
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: lit that fire for me to go to other places
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: and compete adventure and use those skills. And so he
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: taught me the skills of driving a stock manufacturer vehicle,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: how to take care of it, how to not break it,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: the importance of not breaking a stock car. We weren't
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: racing trophy trucks. We were in stock manufacturer vehicles and
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: really important skills. And then I decided I wanted to
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: do more international racing, and some things changed. We were
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: a factory team that during a very interesting time in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: our history, some of the auto manufacturers went bankrupt, changed
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: things with our team and a lot of other teams.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: But I didn't want to stop those adventures. But in
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: the process I decided I wanted to go international, and
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do more endurance events. I love last
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: man standing, Let you go to the absolute bitter end,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: because I am not going to give up. And in fact,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I would love to do a rebel where it's like
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: we just beat everybody down until the last person says,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: give one person's okay, We're going to go ten more
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: kilometers and then we're done. I would love that version
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: of the Rebel. And but what I did is I decided.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: The first thing Rod said is I had wanted to
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: really compete in the FA World Championships of Cross Country Rally.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I really set my sight on that for stock cars.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: But the first thing I did is I learned about
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: the rally I should Degazel and Morocco from a family
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: member who lived in Africa. She had seen it. She said,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: it's this event. It's all women. And I said, okay,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: it's not for speed. I hadn't done a race that
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: wasn't for speed or a competition, and it was for
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: stock pretty much for stock cars, and so Rod said,
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: that's a great place for you to start. You couldn't
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: have a support team. We were used to having support teams,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: lots of team members. But I had to learn navigation.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: No one and I didn't know any women who would
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: do this with me, because when I was racing, there
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: were really no women out there competing. And so I
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: talked to one of my best friends, Wendy Fisher, Olympic
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: ski ski racer, two time World Extreme Skiing champion. Wow,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: she hates to say no.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: The FOMO is strong with her.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, and she said, yeah, sign me up, I'll go,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: and then I think she wasn't sure what she goes. Oh,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: I hate math and all.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: These things, but wait, what am I doing again? You
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: can't break this out on map Quest.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: But she was great, and so we actually ended up
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: taking navigation courses from Coast Guard Auxilliary. We learned navigation.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't learn navigation. I pretended like I learned navigation.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Wendy did the work. We went over there. We had
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: a situation. I'm going to spare you the details, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: ADJUST did a ted X talk on it. You should
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: definitely listen to it because it's a story of us
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: getting lost on the Algerian border as the sun was
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: going down, and we're still friends. I really learned the
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: hard way navigation, and I really found that it's such
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: an incredible skill, and an off road racing you're really
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: following a GPS, you're looking at course markers. But what
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: I loved is that I really had to learn how
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: to navigate, and it translated so well into backcountry skiing,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: driving into and venturing into the middle of nowhere, taking
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: your mountain hiking peaks, and so I really fell in
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: love with the navigation side of it. But I learned
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: everything the hard way. In fact our classes today, I've
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: been an offered driving instructor for over twenty years now,
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I've been a navigation instructor for over fifteen years, and
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of the things I teach have been lessons
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: I learned the hard way, but also the lessons I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: see people mistake, make the mistakes I see people make
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: over and over again, and so I started the rebel.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: What are some of those mistakes that you see people
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: make over and over again with navigation?
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, Scott, we.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Don't have that much time.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, I'm sure I do.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Not preparing enough before you go, not understanding the fundamentals
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: of underlying GPS distance direction, so it's time speed distance direction,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: which are all numbers in math. I hated math growing up.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I hated math. I wish I'd been taught math and
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: geometry through navigation would have probably really engaged me a
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: lot more. But people don't do the pre prep. They
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: don't know what really latitude launchitude at court. They don't
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: know what the blue dot means or the arrow on
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: their GPS.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: They have no idea what does it take to get
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: to that dot, yeah, or what.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Is the dot? What's that data? What is the data?
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: That is the dot? I think they also people tend
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: to to think they know navigation, but they also train
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: what they're good at because it makes you feel good.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And when the lessons get hard or confusing, and navigation,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: you tend to shut your brain off or that makes
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: you nervous, so you don't practice that. You practice what
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: you're great at, but the thing that bites you out
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: there is a thing you're not good.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: The mix of navigation and motorsport is really interesting because
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: motorsport is like a combination of money and seat time,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and they both require money. So going fast on the
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: desert is a skill for sure, it also requires a
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: lot of money. Where the way the rebel rally is
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: set up is you can win that not based on
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: driving skill. I mean it's hard, it's challenging, but you
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: can win that based on navigation. And it's one of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: those things where effort really like if you really put
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the work in, you put the preparation in. The money
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: aspect doesn't matter. You can go in a stock vehicle.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: You could in concept do it in a rental car
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and throw some stuff in the back of it if
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: you really.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Want it to people have.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is amazing. That is amazing because as we know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: what is the most popular or what is the most.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Capable and capable car in the world. That's right, any
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: rental car, any rental car, every rental car. Yeah, so
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: go to fly in the Las Vegas. Go to Hurtz
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: rent a jeep.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Call Nina Barlow, Yeahina Barlow. Yeah, Nina's jeeps are nice.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Don't beat up Nina's jeeps.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: But it's just the cool thing, right, Because motorsports has
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: become so expensive and the rebels not cheap. But when
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you compare it to other forms of motorsport, it's not
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: three thousand dollars an hour to just operate the car.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not want a competition or these skills
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: that are so important to learn that you're going to
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: say no because of the dull So it's attainable. In fact,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: it's even priced, to tell you the truth, the cost
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: of registration does not cover the logistics cost to operate.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Thank goodness, we have great partners that believe in it.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Because I don't want someone to say no. So it's
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: been priced like a ski trip, a serf trip, a
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: medium level safari, something that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: You can what costs, what's the entry phenie.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: It's about it's just shy of sixteen thousand dollars, but
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: that's eleven days, it's forty eight meals. It's your mechanics, some.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Of them cooked by Drew Deckman.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Four star, missed one chef, he has four stars. You
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: know what. And that's not the price. Unfortunately, Drew loves this. Yeah,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: praised out the taco trucks. They're not cheap. It's really
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: like we've built three base.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Camps and that's for two people as well.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: So that's the people. It's basically and then you've got
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: your fuel, and then you've got some safety equipment.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: So for about you generally couldn't do like a cruise
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: for that for twelve games, you can't do a cruise,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: not for two people. No, maybe if you're in you're
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: going to con bottom off the boat.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: You're looking at walk underwater.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Oh I just watched that the poop cruise documentary. Oh no,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and I will never do a cruise ever again.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Something that you can do, you can raise the money for,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you can save the money for and that was important
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: that you can do it in a stock manufacturer vehicle.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: You can borrow a sleeping You don't have to go
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: out and buy new stuff. Everything's going to get destroyed, dirty,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: torn up, beat up, go borrow your body sleeping back
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: or turn it in tatters. But you can do it
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: and you don't have to have expensive track time. You're
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: not racing for speed now granted you're moving down.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Though, Okay, you're not going to get there.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, forre you writing speed, it's not a race against
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the clock, but you're technically competing against the sun. That
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: sun going down and there is some time elements related
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: to it. There's actually a great thing that you can
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: watch online on YouTube. It's called Dead Reckoning. So if
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: you go to our YouTube channel, a Rebel Rally, look
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: for Dead Reckoning. It's a five part series and it
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: really explains where we are, what we're doing, the format,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: the outcomes, Oh cool, and then you'll be sucked in.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: When I was just with you on that Pirelli Tire program,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: just to listen to you speak to the group and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the training that you were providing and some of those
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: really key insights I'd like to talk about a few
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: of those for the audience. But the one thing that
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier from Rod Hall that piqued my interest
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was what did you find that he taught you on
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: how to win? What were some of those key pieces
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: that he helped you realize your way of winning? So that
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the to the benefit of the audience, like, how did
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: you find out how to win?
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: He said, win as slowly as you can, And that
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: was really important because you don't need to go out
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: and annihilate the field. Just went as slowly as you can,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: even if you're one second sooner or you got one
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: more checkpoint. But you need to be patient, patient, you
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: need to be processed driven. You need to not live.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: You know also that the wind there's a reason the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror. You make
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: a mistake, you learn quickly from it, throw it in
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: the backseat, and you move forward. You don't because if
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: you're sitting there thinking in the past or I made
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: this mistake or have this problem or whatever, you're not
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: thinking about where you are. You're not in the present,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: and you're not pushing your eyes down the road, whether
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: that's physically or metaphorically. Yeah, and so he was really
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: good about being methodical and knowing having the skills and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the tools and the toolkit, and knowing how to leave
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: the ego checked at the door.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was well known for that. He was the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: opposite of the Robbie Gordons of the world. He was
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: about how can I preserve this vehicle to the very end,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: and the fact that he would use some of these
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: vehicles for race after race with very few pieces of
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: damage to it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he said, there are certain skills that I had
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: to learn because if I did learn them, he couldn't
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: afford to fix all the things I was going to break.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: That makes sense, And Chris Walker uses a friend of
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: ours and a friend of the overlending community. He said,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: technique before technology, and it was really about throttle control,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: line choice, eye placement. So you can have all the
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: bells and whistles on your car, but you want to
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: turn them all off and you want to use those
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: three skills and then start adding them as you need them,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: and so you're going to break your car less. So often,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: like even in our training programs, we want to teach
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: people first how to drive really well. A lot of
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: times you'll go to your first some of your first
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: classes is how to recover your vehicle. It's i'd first
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: learn how to drive really well.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's not a Christmas thing that he came
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: on and he's talking about learn to not get stuck.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so then you're not just so reliant of
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: that's okay, I can make these mistakes because then I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: can recover my vehicle or and get unstuck. That technique
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: is so important, and he was so smooth. He also
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: focused on being smooth, smooth throttle, that sound, that feel.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: He also taught us how to drive with your butt.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: You know how to feel the car so you're not overthinking.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: But if you're thinking too much, thinking takes time. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: the people that got to learn from him are so fortunate.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Shelby Hall his granddaughter. She's great at driving the stock
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: manufacturer vehicle. That's what she learned on. She took those
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: lessons really well. You don't see her breaking things. It's true.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: If you don't break and you don't flat.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Attire, you're probably gonna win.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can breathe off a little bit at least. Now.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: The technology is so amazing. It's what the cars can
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: do and the drivers, But you're not going to lose
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: time on dumb mistakes. So we call them Yoda because
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: he literally always had these words of wisdom, and they
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: weren't you could easily process them.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Let's break down maybe the you talked about line of
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: sight or where your eyeline goes to. Let's break that
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: down a little bit for the listener. How can people
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: do a better job of driving with their vision?
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, First of all, just take stock of your
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: body posture. Were your hands, are your shoulders back on
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: the seat? Are you fitted into your seat? Are you
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: in a good posture? Are your arms hanging on? Get
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: your seat fitted? Always say you're driving or you're piloting
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: a five thousand pounds killing machine, you better treat it
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: like a piece of high tech sports equipment. Imagine if
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: you were skiing. Now this goes away from your eyes,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: but first you got to get set up in the car.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: So imagine if you're skiing and you have a size
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: eight foot but now you're in a size ten ski boot.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: You think you're going to turn that ski? No, or
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: you're going to get hurt. Yeah, you're not going to
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: have as much control. So you start first with your
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: seat in your body position. Then just take's stock of
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: where or do you put your eyes? How far do
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you push your eyes down the road? In off road driving,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: especially when you're especially when you're picking up the pace,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: you're looking far down the road at the thing that's
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: going to change what you're doing. So you're in this
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: position and you go, oh, something's coming up. I'm going
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: to need to change my throttle position or my line,
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: and you've got to make that. You've got to make
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: that decision early. And one of the reasons why is
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: when you're moving at sixty miles per hour, you're moving
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: at eighty eight feet per second. You're going fast. When
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: you're even just doing thirty miles per hour, you're moving
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: at forty four feet per second. And then if you
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: actually look how far you can see in front of
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: your hood, it's maybe fifteen to seventeen feet, So you
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: can't be staring at the hood. That's why you gotta
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: trust your spot When you're going slow, you got to
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: trust your spotter. You got to look early. You've got
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to make decisions early, and then you can't fixate on it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: It's just like when you're riding your mountain bike. You
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: stare at that rock.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: You're going to hit it and hit the rock for sure.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: So you got to push your eyes down the road.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: So first you want to see how far you're looking
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: down the road straight at the next thing that's going
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: to change what you're doing. Then you've got to look
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: through your turns. Most people, when you look at a turn,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: they're looking right here. You need to look through the
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: turn so that you set the turn up because the
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: rest of your body is going to match what your
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: eyes are doing. So you're going to give just enough
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: steering input and just enough throttle or break to go
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: where your eyes are telling it. You know that's the information,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden you move your eyes
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: then you would But what's cool about off road driving?
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Pavement driving and I know you love it too, it's
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: really fun. But it's way more fun is off road
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: driving because now you've got a lot more three dimensional space.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: You're going uphills, so not only through corners, So then
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: you've got to look over the top of the hill.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: Most people fixate right in the middle of the hill.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: And you know what you do, give it just enough
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: throttle and just to make it to that point. You
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: go I'm not going there, I'm going here. So the
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: second you readjust your eyes, you then change your throttle position.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: That's the last place, and then you're going to dig
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: it down and then you're staring. Usually you're staring at
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: the hole, but somebody else created right in the middle
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: of that hill. So you want to drive with your eyes.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: And so we used to teach, with Rod and myself,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: we would teach throttle control and line choice, and then
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: we'd say, why are people having so many problems? Why
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: they're not getting the throttle control and the line choice.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Why are they making these decisions? And you sit right
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: seat with them and you realize it's because of where
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: they're putting their eyes. And if you can fix the
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: eyes first, a lot of that throttle control and line
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: choice fixes itself. That explains it absolutely.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And then the other two ones. It was throttle position
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: and break.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Throttle control, and it's really pedal control. It wok sac sure,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: but we call it throttle control, but it really is.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: They're all control. Most people think of throttle and breaks
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: slowing you up and speeding you down, but also what
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: it does is it controls the weight of your car,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: and then you put steering and then you can actually
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: you can do it intentionally and really have incredible control
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: off road. So you want pedal.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Control, you can think of it's like a balance board
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: or yeah.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: So you've got this. Your cars like this, So you
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: speak hit the throttle, car does this or break or
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: whatever your gears? Car does this? You're turning. Where's the
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: weight of that car going? So what we try to
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: do first is really help people understand where the weight
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: of their vehicle is. And then what's that doing When
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you have a lot of weight on the front and
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: you put in steering, Boy, your car will turn really well.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden you hit the gas. Weights back here,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: but you're steering is up front. Now your car won't steer.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: So it helps you understand over steer and understood. But
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: we all try to get into the language when the
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: words of vocabulary. We try to get people to understand
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: the feel of the car.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: To experience it. Yeah, speaking of that, I need to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: go drive a car around the track with a Russian arm.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to I'm going to let you guys finish
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: up the This is the conversation.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: That's okay, thanks for riving with me.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Going out that was so fun. That was amazing. I
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: finally got to ride along with Emily Miller shoes like
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: railing on the dunes. It was awesome. We got way
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: up the top of one of the dunes. Yeah, it
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: was so good.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: So the thing that I found is that Rod has
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: been the voice in my head now for the rest
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: of my life. We literally work on They're all control,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: line choice, eye placement, and then what we call car comfort, accuracy, relaxed,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: which helps us determine speed or line choice, whether we're
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: doing it right, Are we going the right speed? Do
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: we need to slow down, speed up, change our line?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: We ask ourselves those things. Is it a comfortable ride?
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Are we accurate and dead accurate, not just like drifting corners,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: hitting rock stuff? Accurate with that car? And then are
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: we relaxed behind the wheel? Are we at one or
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: even just a split second ahead taking that car where
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: we want to go? But if you can really work
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: on they're all control, line choice, eye placement for the
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: rest of your life. And I keep working on it,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: and you can keep And.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: That's what most motorsport is those fundamentals, no matter if
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: it's road, matter if it's street, off road.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Whatever, and you're either reinforcing good or you're reinforcing bad,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: one or the other. There's no gray area. And I've
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: worked on it now for the rest of my life,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: and I keep becoming a better driver.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Like so much of it is the eyes though too.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Like from a young age I raced, and my uncle's
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a pretty well known racing instructor, always slap my helmet eyes.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: He would slap my helmet and eyes. My dad saying,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: they slap your helmet eyes. You're looking through, you're looking ahead.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You have to know where you're going. You've already committed
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: to the turn. When you're at the turn, you've got
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to do it well.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: An off road, the example there would be you get
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: into a really technical section and you've brought your eyes
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: in trying to pick lines real close to you, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden it's gone, Yeah you know
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that obstacle. Now you got to get your eyes up.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: The eighty eight feet a second is like super powerful
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: for people to really understand it, Like you think, like
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: how fast you're actually moving, Yes.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Get those eyes up. Yeah. Road same thing which just
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: punch me shoulder, look up, look up. Yeah. And sometimes
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: you have to say to your teammate next to you,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: the person sitting next to you. Hey, if you see
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: my eyes down after real technical section, remind me to
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: pick them up. That's why it's really good to always
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: be a student. The second and this happens to me,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: especially in the dunes. A second I go I'm pretty
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: good at this, I usually get slapped. It's like a
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: bolt of lighting hits me and something goes wrong. It's like,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: always be a student and always be working to get better.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: There's always more that you can learn, right, There's always
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: these different.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Levels no matter your experience, especially in motorsport, because there's
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: just always somebody. It's always somebody faster or motorsport with
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: more money that could make you go faster, but or.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Somebody who's training hard putting in more time. But it's
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: good quality time. Yeah, if you're going to put in time,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: put in good time, put in quality time.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: That one of the things you said about when the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: race as slowly as possible, that's going in my mind.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And then also the vision that keep looking ahead, and
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: those are two things that are just like fundamentals in life.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: You want to win the race, but you also want
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to be able to do the next race. You don't
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: want to beat up the car because I think that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: costs money. And if you're just driving like a jackass,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: you might be able to win one race, but then
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna Ricky Bobby the next one.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I know people doing this.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're inconsistent. Like it's always we're both Formula
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: one geeks. Right, Like there is now like the like
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: super consistent Oscar Piastre and then there's the slightly less
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: consistent Orlando Norris. And it's like that's the difference between
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the two, right, is you get the one stupid move
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: that you shouldn't make because you're just you're just not
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: really paying attention, or you're worried.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: About somebody else's race or where somebody is on the
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: track or whatever we can go down. That I love that.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Applies to this life too, is how many people get
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: paralyzed at what other people are doing rather than running
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: their own race.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I love about the rebel is you
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: have route A, route B about routes C, and you
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: don't know which one you're on. Yeah, so you can't
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: look at where someone else is and know if they
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: have the same checkpoint as you if they're making the
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: right decision. You have to get everybody out of your brain. Yeah,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: because the second you're thinking about everybody else, you are
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: wasting energy they've gotten in your head, so they're already
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: beating you in the Rebel You have got to keep
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: your eyes on.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Your own ten hour days at the Rebel Route race.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: And you only have.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: So much powers of competition.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Competition, yeah, and you only have so much mental capacity
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: in the day. And you don't want to write those
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: checks to somebody else. You got to write them to yourself.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: No, And the second you start trying to outthink what
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: someone has done, you don't know what they've done. You
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: don't know where they are, you don't know what they're doing,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: and you don't know if they're in group A or
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Group B. They might not have the same points as you.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: People, I watch people drive up to a black diamond checkpoint,
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: which means it's unmarked. You have to make the decision
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: that yes, I'm at the point. Click your tracker. I
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: see people drive up to it, right on it, and
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: then they kind of start looking around. They go, oh,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: there's so and so over there, and they won this
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: thing before and then they start questioning themselves. Yeah, and
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: then they drive off of it and drive away and
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: they miss it. I tell people to read the book.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: There's a great book called Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. There's
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: some really great books that help you realize that your
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: gut is this giant supercomputer.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: H Scott here, I just wanted to take a minute
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: to talk a little bit about expedition portal dot com.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: Expedition portal dot com is our website and it's also
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: our community forum. We are celebrating twenty years of expedition
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: portal dot com this year in twenty twenty five, and
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: there are nearly three hundred thousand members on the community
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: forum that talk about incredibly diverse topics all around the world,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: unique vehicles, things like land cruisers and land rovers, and
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: what to do at the border with Ethiopia and Africa,
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: all the way to some of the favorite campsites and
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: adventure stories from the community. We also have the homepage,
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: which is filled with nearly six thousand articles that are
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: all available to you for free right there on expedition
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: portal dot com. We have two to five articles per
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• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I think that your gut is right more than it's wrong,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and it's almost always right. You know what you're meant
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to be doing. Especially in the competition. Setting right, you
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: start second guessing yourself. And the other thing that I
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: like that you said is the windshield is a rod thing,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: but the windshield's bigger than the rearview mirror. And I
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: was quiet after that, and I'm like looking through and
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: thinking through my own life, and I'm like, oh man,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I could really take that to heart. There's so much
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: more ahead of you, and what's behind you is literally
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: like it's like you got to treat it like it's
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: in the back seat, because when you're in a race,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: that's what you instinctively do. You mess up a corner,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: hit a line, weird you whatever it is, right, you
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: bottom the truck out or whatever. The mistake is you
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: have to keep moving and you have to just get
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: it over. And I think in life, I'm just sitting here,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, man, there's some things in my own life
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, I need to put that in a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: review mirror and just keep moving forward.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, move on, it's done. Yeah, you can't change that.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing, but you can. It can hurt you, yeah, yeah, you.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Can dwell on it too much that it paralyzes and
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: stops you. And I hate to say, but I see
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: women do that a lot. They make a mistake and
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: instead of just saying, oh, I need to learn from it,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: they feel so bad about it. They dwell on it.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: They didn't want to make the mistake. Sometimes they'll stop them, Hey,
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: it's just a mistake. And we're very hard on ourselves
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: often and we judge it as failure. A mistake is
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: a learning opportunity that is not failure. The one thing
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: I try to get the people that compete in the
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Rebel to understand is a mistake is something that you're
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: going to make a mistake every day. It's the way
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: we design the game, and if you look at the format,
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: that's why it's great. It's hard to explain here, look
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: it up, look at it on YouTube, because you're gonna
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: you're you're not going to get one hundred percent score
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: every day. You're just not. So that means well, nobody does.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's so fascinating that, like you have some
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: of these competitors all use like Nina Barlow for an example,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: she was there at the first one. She and she eats,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: sleeps and breathes stuff. She trains people. She doesn't win
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: every year like she's good, but it's interesting, Like I'll
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: watch her like at the few rebels on that she's
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: in the zone, but she's you see her get frustrated,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: but then you see her just keep moving.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: In her teammate Carolyn she they are really great at
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: rebounding from a mistake. So people think that they don't
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: make mistakes. They assume they don't make mistakes. They make mistakes,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: they'll say it, but they can rebound and just go, oh,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: made a mistake, and they laugh it off. We are
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: not caring cancer out there. Yeah, just move forward. Because
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: what's so great about endurance events is it really allows
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: you to come back. We really wanted a competition where
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: you can throw, you can make a mistake, but throw
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: the hail married pass, Yeah, and you can come back
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: from There's.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: New teams that come in and they're competing at the top.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And that's always the interesting thing for me with Rebella
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: is that it's the top ten is always people who
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: put the work in. There's all that's the common denominator
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: is that there's always the work and the effort put in.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: But people do come from the outside and then walk
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: in and they're in that top ten. They've done the training,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: they put the work in.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Frankly, they've trained a lot.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: From the outside. I'm like, I was like one of
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: my jokes as I'm like at the rebell like the drivers,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: like the Uber driver. It's like maybe the driver gets
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: the glory sometimes and it is technical driving, it's fast,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it's there's no disrespect there. But the navigation is what
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: this is all about. The navigator deserves so much glory.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: If the podium had a little higher step at first,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: it should be that it should be the navigator.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: What's happened is over the ten years people have really
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: become students of the game, and now the best teams
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: are both teammates are great navigators, so that drivers.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: You have to understand where it's.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Divide and cam because the driver isn't just wait. If
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: you're now just waiting to be told where to go,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: you're wasting time.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Do you think that the competitors that place lower one
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: focus is too much on the driving and one focuses
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: on the navigation and they're not really I'm going to say,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: swapping seats, or do you think most people are trying
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: to do both?
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: There are a number of factors. I think a lot
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: of people when you see the lower scores, not making
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: decisions quickly, spending too much time on checkpoints and maybe
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: earlier in the day, not thinking about how to manage
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: their time, not being able to communicate quickly and directly,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: because you can have all the skills in the world,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: but if you can't work as a team, you're not
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: going to make it. The editing that they do is
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: the drivers do wait for direction. They haven't learned the
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: skill on how to complement the navigator, and sometimes they're
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: trying to and they have the skill, the navigator doesn't
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: want the help. Sometimes the navigator wants the help and
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: the driver doesn't have the skill. So it's it's really
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: interesting to watch. But every team's a little different, but
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: they seem to have similar circumstances in terms of the
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: things that I just described, but it has I will
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: say that now people come in and they want to
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: win the Rebel in the first year, but they're competing,
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: but they've never competed in a motorsport event, or maybe
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: never competed in a sports event, so they don't know.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: They don't have one single start line and one finish line.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Someone who's done ten years of Rebel has eighty start
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: line experiences and eighty finish line experiences just in the Rebel.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: They know how to manage their time, they know the
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: common mistakes. But what happens too is people want to
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: win and then they go in and they make that
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: first mistake and it devastates them and they yeah, they don't.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: So you've got to come in with a spirit of
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: learning that they're going to learn the game. So my
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: advice to people, and I think you can take this
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: lesson into any other competition, whether it's motorsport, any competition,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: and just say every day, don't necessarily focus on the score.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: What did you learn, what mistakes did you make? Talk
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: about it as a team, and what are you going
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: to apply the next day because it's day after day.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Anybody can do anything for three days, one, two, three days.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: But you if you just keep doing that and you
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: apply the learnings every day and you don't get your
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: head caught up in that score, you're going to find
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: that you climb that ladder. So that's my advice to
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: people in any kind of competition. Focus on learning and
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: getting better. Rod said, you can't learn how. You can't
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: know how to win until you learn how to finish.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: You have to get to the finish line first, and
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: then go oh, that's what it took. Now I can
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: start refining and applying and go ooh, I'm strong here,
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: I'm not strong. There isn't that the same thing in
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: our work, in our career, in our profession, whether we're
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: learning a new sport, same thing.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I think with the rebel, you
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: also have and you're also camping, and you're also in
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: the BIV whack every night, and that is not easy
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: like you're with with a lot of other people. It's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: October in Nevada. It can be one hundred degrees or
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: it can be twenty degrees. It all happens and just
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: ten days of motorsport, and then ten days of that event.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: It's challenging, like genuinely challenging. A lot of desert racing.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: That's wake up, go run really hard for a day
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: and then crack a beer at the end and you're done.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: But to do that over and over again, there's nothing
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: else like that, And.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: You're not calling home. No, you don't get to call home,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you don't have your cell phone. You didn't make a mistake,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: and then get to go post a pretty picture. You
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: aren't a jerk to your teammate, make a mistake, blow it,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: and then go post a pretty picture on Instagram and goes, hey,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: look at me, Look how cool I am. You don't
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: get to do that. You have to sit with your mistakes.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: The Rebel Rally is an extreme endurance event. Where else
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: do you go eleven days you're taking your tent down
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: and up without help of anybody else six times. You
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: might have three nights. I'm saying this from what we've
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: had fourteen degrees, all the water's frozen, you're freezing, you
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: can't hardly move your hands. And then by the finish
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: line it's one hundred and fourteen degrees and you have
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: to have enough equipment, but you don't want to overpack
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: your car.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: So it's very it's the endurance thing that I don't
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: think that people like really get. Like you're in that
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: car all day and your brain is on whether you're
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: the driver, whether you're the navigator, whether you're working together,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: and then it doesn't really stop. And people aren't like
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: going to bed at seven o'clock. They're practicing their navigation
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: because you give the maps and the kind of the
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: stuff the night before. Nope, no, the.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: Day the morning. I wake everyone up at five am
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: normally with the cow bell. They come in. They can
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: never once hurt the rails. No, you have. Next time
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: you're on the rally're gonna ring the caw bell really hard.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: They come into the tent, they grab a coffee, they
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: start plodding. They have coordinates. They either have latitude and
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: longitudes or heading in distances from known locations. Sometimes they
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: have a rally roadbook that is where you have to
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: do math calculations, and you're doing that at five am.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Really sleeping, not really sleeping. It's cold, you're freezing, or
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: maybe you broke your car, so that means you had
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: to stay up all night so even if the mechanics
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: are working on it, you don't get to go to bed.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: This isn't like off road racing where you go, hey,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: give me a race, prep see you in the morning.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: You're not the rock star.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: You're out there and there is no helicopter taking you
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: to the Sweet's Hotel in Loretto.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: That's true. And I know a lot of off road
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: racers who go I couldn't do the Rebel, and they're
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: tough as nails. Yeah, but you have to stay with
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: your mechanic. You have to stay there until your car
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: is finished. A teammate has to be there. So you
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: might have stayed up all night and never got one
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: ounce of sleep, and now you got to start all
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: over again the next morning. And that may be day
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: seven and you're on two hours of sleep a night.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: So people, and that affects your performance for that day.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. Like when you're tired, like everything becomes
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: a lot harder.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does. And now it's windy. Then you're in
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: a windstorm and you think about you look at there
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: was a Formula One race this past we get Silverstone
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: and the ones who were great at driving in the
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: had great races it did. Yeah, and the ones who
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: aren't comfortable you could even hear it on their rates.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: All the rookies are done, right. I guess Antonelli just
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: retired the car because what's its face ran into it,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: But every other rookie done.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: You need to train in the reck You need to
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: in the Rebel. You train how to deal with paper
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: maps in a windstorm. Sit in front of and people go,
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: I can't go out to the desert when I live
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: in New York City. Get a fan and put it
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: blow a fan at high speed on your counter while
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: you're trying to plot a map. There are all sorts
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: of ways that you can do that. Like I said,
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: it's applies to everything you do. Don't train for when
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: everything's just perfect. Make it hard, find ways to train hard.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's cool how many people that I've noticed
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: continue to come back and compete at the Rebel. There
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: are so many multi time competitors obviously, that shows like
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: it's either addicting, either putting a little suffing in the
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: coffee in the morning and people keep coming back, or
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: they just they're getting a lot from it, right.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Interestingly, like Toyota puts in their max limit of
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: teams of seven corporate teams, and they're engineering teams and
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: from different departments R and D, manufacturing, engineering, fuel, cell,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: et cetera. And they actually put their teams in for
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: leadership and teamwork development. They said, there's really nothing better.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: You can't get that many.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Get in Toyota's work less and Toyota's pretty methodical with
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: their leadership development. It kind of wrote the book on
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff, right, yes.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: And you really get to see it holds a mirror.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Any kind of extreme endurance event holds a mirror up
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: to yourself about how good you are under pressure, not
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: just how good you are under pressure, but for a
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: long period of time. And the rebel and durance events
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: sometimes reward the person who's maybe not is skilled at
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: the sport, but actually has a very strong tough and
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: learning growth mindset, and it rewards those people. And if
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: it doesn't, you think you have this growth mindset, or
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: you think you have this learning mindset, and then you
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: get out there and you go, I could do better.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I have stuff to work on. A lot of people
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: also it's addicting. There's also a great community for sure.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: You know where in the world I've seen these articles lately.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: I left. I turned off my cell phone for a day.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Could you do it? But this is what it was
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: like to turn off my cell phone for one day
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: and we go, okay, you do that in the rebel
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: for eight days, and you know what happens. The magic happens.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: You get connected. You forget that you have email, that
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: you have things going on, and you're so in the
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: moment and the connections become so strong.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: A detox camp in a way, it is, and it's
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: so hard to get that. These days, we all do
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: this overlanding thing. We're traveling in these remote places. But
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: now it's so easy to be connected.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: Starlink.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all camping together and I have the power
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: of God. I have the starlink. I have the button,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and I know that I can't turn the button off
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: because people will be mad.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: But your starlink went off last night and we were
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: kids and we were like, oh my gosh, the starlink's
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: don't turn on ourse And you're like, no, it's okay.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: But it just goes to show you how disconnected when
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: you're thinking about this device, you've stepped away from the
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: people in nature, just even ever so slightly or a lot,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: but the bonds formed are so strong. And also people
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: leave a lot on the table. The other thing that
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: happens is it's so humbling, and usually we all need
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: a pretty good humbling. That's why I came out and
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: I had stopped competing, but in twenty nineteen I quietly
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: went over and said, I'm gonna go to this route,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: this seven day endurance rally in Africa that I've wanted
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: to do, and went over, took a person that works
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: on the rally, turned her to navigate, and I said,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: let's go do this thing. And because it actually helps
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: me in my relationships because what it does is it
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: holds that mirror up. So you go, oh, I need.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: To light I'm putting myself through the same thing, but
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I'm putting people through yeah.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Or you go, this is how I sound when I'm
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: tired and hungry. I sound that way all the time
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: to people around me, ooh I need to get in check.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: It's those that competition also reminds you that you can
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: always get better at something. You can train, you can
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: lighten up, or you can give you more intense And
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: I have a lot of people come back and say
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: I need to do the rebel because it makes me
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: better in my relationships, it makes me better at my job,
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: and even for people who are listening right now, I
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: can't go do an endurance rally, Go do something that
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: pushes you out of your comfort zone. We get older
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: and when you think back, when was the last time
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: I really pushed myself and not for a few hours
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: and not for a day, but for eight, nine, ten
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: days where I didn't get to go back to these
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: like beautiful creature comforts, and that it will positively impact
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: you if you choose.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the world's so easy to be comfortable in these days, right, Yeah,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: And I think that's just one of the cool things.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: But the rebellas you can get so many different things
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: out of it. You can jump in your first year
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: and you can get a lot out of it, and
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: then you can get more out of it the next year. Like,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: even if your goal isn't to finishing that race, is
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: a considerable accomplishment. If that's your goal, that's amazing.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but set your goals. I think it's with anything.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: So you do something and you go back and you
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: do it again, how are you going to do it better? Yeah,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: just don't go back and just do it again. And
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: it's okay too. I always just say it's your eight,
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: but are you going to get better at it?
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: And yet with having so many days though, that's the
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: cool thing is that you can if you're able to
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: mentally you put that day behind you. You get another
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: chance tomorrow. Yeah, it's not your race isn't over on
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: day one, but it's not. Wait for most people on motorsport,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: it's okay, I messed up at the San Felipe two fifty.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: I've got to wait until the next race in a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: month or two months or something. You get that opportunity
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to hone that skill, whether that's personal skill, driving skill,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. You get the opportunity to do it
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: the next day, which is really rad.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Eight start lines and eight finish lines and it may
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: be from anywhere from ten to twelve and a half
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: hours of competition time. Where else do you get ninety
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: to one hundred hours of competition at one time and
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: we're going to make sure you get to that finish line.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually crazy because that's the rebuild on the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: GT three Cup, and that rebuild is fifty thousand dollars.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: That's two transmissions at forty grand apiece from Bill Raider.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: That is, That's where like the thing is. I know
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people are like, oh, the Rebel
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: rally is so expensive. And I'm not trying to say
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: this from like a gilded tower or something, but in
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the realm of motorsport, it is insane value.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Like it's eleven days, and I say.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: It's hard to do. It's hard to do one day
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: of like competitive motorsport for what the for what the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Rebel rallies. So you're looking at three thousand dollars in tires,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: You're looking at three thousand dollars an hour in operating costs,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: track time, team time, support, everything, everything that's going to
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: be off road.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Now you have to send a team of people to
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: go down and fuel, you pit you you may be
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: paying a registration fee. But when you actually add.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Up all this, it's crazy.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: It just took all the costs that you would take
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: as a normal team, mashed them all together and spread
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: the costs out amongst everybody. So it actually brought the
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: cost of fuel. We bring the fuel out there, we
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: bring the your pits who we bring the mechanics out there,
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: we bring we build the villages, we built your hotel
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: for it, and then we disperse the costs. And so
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: the problem is I don't break them down. I could say, sure,
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: your registration costs is like anything else, five thousand dollars.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: But now you've got to do this, and this would
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: actually add up to be more.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you couldn't even you couldn't do that format
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: in a drastically different way. I think part of the
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: magic of that is the I'm going to say the escape,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: but I remember doing it during COVID and it was like, yeah,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: it was a challenge because it was COVID, but you
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: were already in your bubble. It's like that that once
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: you were, once you got your test, and you're gone.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: You're in your little bubble. You're gone. You're in your
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: own little world.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: And that's it's expensive. You want to go race a
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: baham on thousand, it might be a day and you
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: spent fifty thousand dollars, Yeah, to be easy.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: And that's for something with an air cooled Volkswagon motor.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. That is definitely not any kind of unlimited vehicle. Yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: but there are other things that you can do. So
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: I tell people to hey, this might not be for you,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: but we can help you identify what do you want.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: What's the adventure you're looking for, and we can help
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: you identify it. There are some cool things. The nomad
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: rally you can do on your own time, and it's
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: a GPS based on when you do it, how long
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: you do it, et cetera. So you could look up
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: the nomad rally. Definitely going to be a lot more affordable,
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: going to be very different. But the goal of the
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Rebel Rally was to create a world class endurance rally
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: in America because they go on around the world, but
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: you don't see them here in America. For one thing,
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: they're not easy to pull off. They're not easy to permit.
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: And I think that's important though, because we take sometimes
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: for granted the terrain we have. Oh yeah, so in
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: the overlaying community, we've seen amazing places, but there's almost
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: nowhere more beautiful than the area between the east side
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: of the Sierras and Mount Whitney and Death Valley, within
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: one hundred miles section. The relief and the terrain and
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: topography the dry lake beds to the high Alpine, the
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: highest point in North America. It's the lowest point in
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: North America, in this one tiny place. The terrain is crazy.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Have an America is world class. There should be a
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: world class car rally that celebrates it. And that's how
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: we built Rebel and Jimmy Lewis and myself we go
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: out and we build that course and it's different every year.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Those checkpoints are different every year because we want something epic. Yeah.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this isn't just like an event that you plan
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: the week before. This is a year long Like I've
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: watched you for ten years. This is a full time
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: commitment for you year round, whether it's the training, the promotion,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: setting a course, and then two weeks before the event
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: they say nope, you can't do that anymore, and then
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: you have to plan it again. That's been some years.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: And then some years you call me and it's all
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: this washed out. There's this thing, and now we have
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: to completely change everything. It's crazy.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Like the storm that hit burning Man two a couple
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: of years ago, wiped out the whole middle of our course.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: A month before that, it had all been permitted and then
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: the government decides to shut down on October first, ten
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: days before the rally. Now they didn't shut down but
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: it was down. I had to call senators offices to
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: get them to make sure that our permit was signed
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: in case the government shut down. Yeah, I had to
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: stop under a tree and stop laying out course in
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: big sand dunes and one hundred and twenty degrees and
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: try to get senators aids off senator's offices on the
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: phone to help us. And you know why it was
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: great they did on both sides, on the Democratic side
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: and on the Republican side, they came and they said, yes,
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: we're going to make sure that the rebel rally happens.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Isn't that great? But every October something the government has
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: to fund the budget and we're on public lands, so
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: it is tedious. It's happened more than once.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Have you considered a spring rally.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: I consider just calling it a tour, and I go
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: on tour to maybe it's a labor of love. But
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: what happens is for all the nightmare and the headache
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: and the risk, I will get a letter from someone
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: that says I got a huge promotion at work because
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: when I came back, my boss told me they didn't
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: realize that was such a badass. Yeah, And they said,
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: how did you not know? And so sometimes we don't
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: have these opportunities to really push ourselves and let people
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: see like what we're made of, because life in a
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: first world country is different than in a third plus
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: world country. So that's what the rebel does, or these
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: endurance events or these things that push you. It pushes
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: the reset on perspective. Yeah, and I think everyone needs it.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: For what's your next big adventure, Matt Scott, I don't
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: know yet.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I do know it's the pan Am and really yeah. Yeah,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: we have our very sweet little greyhound at home and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: he's doing he was doing really bad, so we started
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: making plans. He's doing amazing. So that's a little bit
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: on hold right now. But I need to do something
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: that's that challenges me. Like life's been a little too
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: comfortable lately, and you notice it in your personality. You want.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I think certain types of people they need to be challenged.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm starting like two businesses simultaneously, and there's all
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the work stuff that I'm doing that's giving me busy.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: There's this call for adventure that I think everybody has.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm really appreciating these little micro adventures because the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: reality is that not everybody can just get on a
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: plane and go to who knows where? What's it? And
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: it's these little weekend trips that I'm just enjoying so much,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: but trying to push myself a little bit more and
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: do things a little bit differently.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: I think it's adventure and challenge. Adventure and challenge gives
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: you a spark. Yeah, And what I see is in
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: the world we tend to live right now in is
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: the spark is not as strong. But I'm seeing people
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: wanting the spark back. And I think challenge does that.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Because you get in such a comfort zone, it's easy
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: to have an excuse or to not do something. But
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: I love what you said that you want the little
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: micro challenges because you don't always even have the dollars
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: to go across the globe.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everything is so freaking expensive these days, right.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: Just go find a new trail, learn something.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Mountain biking has been like a new thing for me.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Is I can literally ride from my house and challenge
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: myself and then be back home in an hour or
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: two hours. Yeah, kicks my ass on a mountain bike,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: so I get to try and follow her. Yeah she's great, man,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Think it's important because even an hour, don't you notice
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: the difference when you come home if you took the hour.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so easy in life to be and I
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: don't know about tificate, but it's so easy to be lazy.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: How much time do you spend? Does everybody spend on
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: their phone these days? Like I talked to some of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: my friends like, oh, well, what's your screen time? Because
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Apple will tell you. And I'm not even that bad,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: but like some people, man, it's like you think, it's
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: almost like that sending reels to your friends is now
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: like how you communicate to your friends. You gotta just
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: shut that. You got to shut it off.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you only have this one go round. Yeah that's it. Yep,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: you have this one trip on this planet. And is
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: that how you want to spend your time? Like just
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: scrolling doom scrolling. It's amazing when you can just put
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: it down and make a pact. Okay, on Saturday, I'm
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: going to turn my phone off and I'm not even
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: going to get in my car. I'm going to get
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: on my bike or just set a goal to go
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: find something or learn something new. Our medical director for
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: the Rebel Rally Doctor Kevin Stone. He said that as humans,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: we should do four things every day. We should do
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: something where we learn or exercise our mind. We should
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: exercise our bodies, do something healthy for our bodies. We
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: should laugh, and then we should do something to try
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: to make the world a better place. And if we
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: did those four things every day, we'd be so busy
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: we couldn't get caught up in the bs.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because then when you're not busy, your mind finds
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: a way to fill itself. Yes, and that's always fun.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes that's positive, but sometimes it's not. We're
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: fortunate we're in the Overlin community. People want to get
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: out and explore, and they also want to get out
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: and connect. They want the energy of nature or human
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: human energy.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: What's so cool about where we are right now? The
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: big thing is it's just a great group of people
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that are here. That's why I like they test launched
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: this last year. I've been to so many of these
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: events and they all suck. Now it's like we're I've
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: been talking about. It's usually it's just you go to
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: a booth and it's just hired whoever they could find
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: locally hired marketing staff or it's this or it's some
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: soulless conglomerate company or a car company or whatever, and
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: it just it sucks. Where this event has been so
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: good and refreshing and it inspires you to go and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: do things. Yeah, that's really important.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: An event like this. What I saw today and yesterday
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: last night is there were new people coming into the space. Yeah,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: and the thing that we need to do having experienced
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: because it's like a reunion. We get to all see
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: each other maybe I haven't seen each other a while.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: We get to camp together. There's no out here unless
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: you have a starlink, so people's phones aren't working and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: everybody's super connected. But what I love about this community
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: is that people are reaching out and helping draw in
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: the new people. Oh you're new, feel free to ask
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: me questions. And that's something that I love about the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: community is it's hey, come on in, and I really
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: applaud the people who. It really is brave to go
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: into a place where you don't know anyone. You just
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: drove across two states. You have no idea what you're
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: getting into, but you just know you want it. It's
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: almost like a pilgrimage to get here to this place.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: And the joy that I saw that I've seen here
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: is true joy, and I think we all need to
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: experience that. But I think we have a responsibility. And
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: I think everyone who's listening to this that may have
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: some of these skills. What are you doing to make
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: the Overlin world a better place?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: Not thinking about how are you monetizing it, how are
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: you getting impressions, whatever, How are you doing? What are
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: you doing to encourage more people to have skills and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: be safe and to give it a shot. And as
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Rachelle Croft says, start somewhere, Just start somewhere. It's on us.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: It really is on our shoulders. And what a fun job.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's something that Rachelle and the whole
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: ex Overly collective team has been doing really well. Is
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: inspiring people. Yeah, but and you've been doing that too. Oh,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: It's think about how many people's life. I've seen people
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: before Rebel and after Rebel, and they're different people. Our
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: producer Paula, for example, she had her Rebel experience, absolutely
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: loved it. It's just cool And I'm sure there's a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people that would love to thank you for
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: everything that you've done for them. You've done so much
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: Sweet, but you've done a lot for me too. And
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: it's been a fun ride.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: It's been ten freaking years.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: It's been ten years.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: It's been a wild ride.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: You know what's fun is last night around the fire,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Clay said, I remember going to the first overland event
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: and I met five people there. It was like Scott Brady,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Emily Miller, Brian Midfigures, you know he named it off
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: and goes and they're all here today. Yeah, and we
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: went we're old. But I remember that it was in Hollister, California,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: and Brian and it was Overland Journal at the time.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: They called and said, hey, we would come teach and present,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: and we did. Scott and I taught a class. It
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: was really fun and I remember trying to watch this
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: syncro van go up the advanced technical course and it
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, of course, it was so much fun.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: But that was the first, that was really one of
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: the first called overland events, and Clay was there, and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: really we are all still connected and everybody just needs
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: to know that they're welcomed into this community for sure.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: And you start somewhere and they start somewhere. I remember
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Rachelle coming into the first class, wanting to go over
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: to Africa and wanting to learn more about driving and navigation.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: And we went over there together and we've been great
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: friends ever since. And she had You just got to start,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: and it's going to feel really scary to start and
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: to try to be a beginner at something. But boy,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: if you can have that beginner.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: As well, it's also very easy to be complacent and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: to continue doing what you're good at, or continue doing what.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: People train what they're good at. They train what they're
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: good at, and they get really and they get very
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: prideful and what they're good at. I see it in
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: driving and navigating, and then they don't work and then
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: they avoid the stuff that they're not good at. You
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: can't do that. You got to be unafraid to dive
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: in on the stuff that you're not good at.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 6: Because we all and the kind of leaders in the space,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: if we all remind people that we were beginners at
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 6: some point, if we go out and we go, hey,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 6: here's a story, here's where I really screwed up, here's
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 6: a real boneheaded move I did, or whatever, and here's
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: what I learned from it, then it actually kind of
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 6: helps people go oh man, they'd made that mistake.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: It's okay if I make a mistake. We talked about
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: that a little bit earlier, about Carolyn and Nina making mistakes,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: but they rebound really quickly. But sometimes if we can
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: say we can remember that we all we didn't spring
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: forth from the womb knowing how to drive a car.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: We learn those skills. And I just really encourage the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: entire overlink community. The better you get it stuff and
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: the more you're skilled, remember where you came from. Yeah,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: and then pass the US it'll be nice.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you might run into that person at an overland event.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: They might, they might.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: You might need them to pull you out of a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: oh of a something somewhere one day.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: I always love the podcast where I learned something and
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: feel inspired, and this has definitely had one been one
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: of those. But just thank you for everything that you've done.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I know that you've just changed so many lives with
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: the Rebel. I've seen how much work that you put
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: into it. I know how much dedication that you put
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: into it. It's so cool to watch. I can't wait
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: for the twentieth.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, you might have to be driving me around the.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Step of course. Then I'll be there. I'll be there, okay.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: Hey, thanks of course, great ride.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for tuning into the Overland
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Journal podcast.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: We'll see you next for listening.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take care.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: See you down the road.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: My pressing the