Latest / History Dark / His Brain was _scattered like blackberries_ _ Case of Scott Wilkinson _ Killer At The Crime Scene

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His Brain was _scattered like blackberries_ _ Case of Scott Wilkinson _ Killer At The Crime Scene · History Dark

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: A body has been discovered in the River Thames. Local
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: fisherman Scott Wilkinson has been beaten to death.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: This has been a very vicious attack on somebody, a
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: very sustained attack.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Surrey Police open a murder investigation and the entire island
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: is cordoned off. The forensic team must act fast as
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the clues to catching the killer lie in the crime scene.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Every murder scene's different, but the goal remains the same,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to catch the killer.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Sorry, please.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Good morning.
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: How can I help?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Hello, I went over to see my friend Christian on
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Donkey Island this morning.
• 1:00
  Speaker 6: Right, OK.
• 1:01
  Speaker 7: When I got over there, he wasn't there.
• 1:03
  Speaker 8: All his stuff had been moved and there was blood
• 1:05
  Speaker 8: all over his tent.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: It looks like blood on his tent.
• 1:09
  Speaker 9: And what's his name?
• 1:09
  Speaker 7: And do you know where he could be? 46-year-old fisherman
• 1:12
  Speaker 7: Scott Wilkinson is reported missing.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: His campsite on the bank of the River Thames is
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: laden with blood and it's.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Been almost 17 hours since.
• 1:21
  Speaker 10: Anyone has heard from him.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: With serious concern for Scott's welfare, police call in the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: helicopter and fire brigade boat team. Donkey Island sits on
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the River Thames in north-west Surrey. It stretches over 600
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: metres and is a well-known spot for fishermen.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: If you can see the fire brigade boat, the tent
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: is about 20 metres towards the southern shore, towards the
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: rear pub.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Police believe Scott is injured. It's important they locate him quickly.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: The emergency services have discovered Scott's body in the shallow water,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: hidden amongst some reeds.
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: Officers break the news to Scott's fiancée, Lisa.
• 2:41
  Speaker 10: Police won't come towards me.
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: And that's when she said, sorry to say, but Scott
• 2:44
  Speaker 6: is dead.
• 2:44
  Speaker 8: Broke down.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: I was going to jump in the water.
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: Scott was a lovely person.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: People loved him.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: He was a gentle giant.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: His smile, his eyes, so kind and nice. He would
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: do anything for anyone.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: He loved fishing. Fishing in the summertime.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: He just felt.
• 3:38
  Speaker 7: But peace, I think what hurts more, because we always
• 3:43
  Speaker 7: used to kiss each other goodbye. This time, we just didn't,
• 3:49
  Speaker 7: kind of thing. But Scott and I loved him, and
• 3:53
  Speaker 7: he loved me. So I don't think we needed to
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: kiss each other to say that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: November Yankee from November 1-0.
• 4:02
  Speaker 8: November 1-0, go ahead.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: With the entire island cordoned off, forensic officers must secure
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the area around the deceased before they can begin to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: harvest evidence. Sarah Thirkle has 25 years' experience in crime
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: scene investigation and is one of the UK's leading forensic trainers.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Securing an outdoor crime scene is incredibly difficult because there's
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: a high risk of contamination, especially in a scene like this,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: which is next to the river. There's a lot of
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: leaf cover, there's a lot of dirt, there's a lot
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: of animal activity potentially, which could disturb the scene. The
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: wind could blow and an item might be lost. It
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: could rain and a footprint might be lost. There's what
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: we call the golden hour, which in real terms is
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: several hours for a CSI examining a scene to try
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: and maximise the amount of evidence you can get from it.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Paddy Mayers from the Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: is leading the investigation.
• 5:14
  Speaker 11: It's a lovely, quiet area. You just wouldn't believe that
• 5:19
  Speaker 11: something so awful could happen in a location like this.
• 5:24
  Speaker 11: There's a great deal of blood and a lot of
• 5:26
  Speaker 11: items with blood on. Blood seeped into holes where rod
• 5:31
  Speaker 11: rests had been. There was quite a bit of blood
• 5:35
  Speaker 11: in the area of his seat, close to the tent,
• 5:39
  Speaker 11: and that partly upped the tent with some spots going inside.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It's very clear to me that it's a very low-level attack.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: The victim was either sitting on the floor or lying
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: down on the floor because the high-impact, low-level blood spatter
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: and a lot of congealed blood that's obviously seeped into
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: the ground around his tent. This has been a very
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: vicious attack on somebody, a very sustained attack.
• 6:04
  Speaker 11: The damage to his skull was horrendous. I've never seen
• 6:07
  Speaker 11: a skull fractured like that before or in so many places.
• 6:11
  Speaker 11: A blunt instrument was used to cause those injuries, which
• 6:16
  Speaker 11: could have been a piece of wood.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Finding the murder weapon for a crime scene is vitally
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: important because it can link both the offender or offenders
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to the weapon and also potentially the victim by means
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: of DNA, fingerprints, fibre transfer. But then it's like looking
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: for a needle in the haystack. You are looking for
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: pieces of wood with potential blood, human debris on, in
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a wooded area.
• 6:43
  Speaker 11: They recovered quite a few large pieces of wood, some
• 6:46
  Speaker 11: with nails in. All of those items were sent forensics
• 6:50
  Speaker 11: to see if we could establish that one was a
• 6:53
  Speaker 11: murder weapon.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Examining a piece of wood would take several hours under
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: a very good light source. It's very difficult. Firstly, to
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: find fingerprints on an item like that, wood is very
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: rough and also a very absorbent surface, so it's negating
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: the potential to be able to find fingerprints. I would
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: expect to potentially find blood if it's been used as
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: a weapon. Looking at any obvious damage area or any
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: possible staining on there, blood is very good at providing
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: good DNA profiles. I know some pieces of wood had
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: some nails in them. Again, if these have been used,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: there may well be blood and skin that's been attached
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to the nails on the wood as they've been used
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to attack the victim. The CSIs would be looking at
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: other trace evidence that might be found on there. For example,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: there might be fibres that have been caught in the
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: damaged wood. In addition to that, there may be traces
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: of wood within the head wounds on the victim. If
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: anything's found, then it would be swabbed. and sent off
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: for checking against all known offenders that are on the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: DNA database.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Police have discovered an abandoned campsite secluded by the trees,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: just metres from where Scott's body was found.
• 8:13
  Speaker 11: There were three tents there, upturned, and there was no-one
• 8:17
  Speaker 11: with them, leaving various bits and pieces around. It was
• 8:20
  Speaker 11: imperative that we found out as quickly as we could
• 8:23
  Speaker 11: who had been staying there.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Paddy's team make inquiries at the properties on the opposite
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: bank to the campsites.
• 8:30
  Speaker 11: We quickly established that there had been some other boys
• 8:34
  Speaker 11: staying within scene two. They'd been there for a few
• 8:38
  Speaker 11: days prior to Scott's arrival, but they hadn't been seen
• 8:42
  Speaker 11: since Scott went missing. It could have vital information that
• 8:48
  Speaker 11: could lead us to those responsible.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Finding out who these people are and what they know
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: about the murder has become the police force's main priority.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Police have recovered 46-year-old Scott Wilkinson's body from the River Thames.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: He has been murdered.
• 9:09
  Speaker 11: I've never seen a skull fractured in so many places.
• 9:12
  Speaker 11: A blunt instrument was used to cause those injuries.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Several pieces of wood have been sent for forensic analysis.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Identifying the murder weapon could be key to catching the killer.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Police have discovered an abandoned campsite just metres from where
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Scott's body was found. Identifying who has been staying here
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: could be integral to the investigation. Crime scene officers seize
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: various items that may provide DNA profiles.
• 9:46
  Speaker 11: There were toothbrushes within those tents. There were cans and
• 9:51
  Speaker 11: we would look to have that forensically examined at the
• 9:54
  Speaker 11: earliest opportunity.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: When an offender has DNA taken for the DNA database,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: the main one that gives really good DNA is the
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: buccal swab. It's actually the cells from inside your cheeks.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: The forensic officers seized an array of cigarette butts from
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: the crime scene.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Cigarette butts are a really good source of DNA, mainly
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: because it's the same cells from the inside of your
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: lips is going on to the cigarette butt. We normally
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: cut the filter paper off the outside and remove the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: filter from the inside. The filter itself in the cigarette
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is just full of the contaminants from the tobacco. What
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: we're looking for is the buccal cells that are on
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the outside of that brown paper. There are a number
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: of drinks cans and some Capri Sun with some straws
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that were recovered from the scenes. Similar to the cigarettes,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: you're going to get the buccal cells from inside your
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: lips onto the edge of straws. If you imagine when
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: you're drinking from a can, you're constantly putting it to
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: your lips. You'll get DNA swept from your nose onto
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: that ring pull. And the top of a can has
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: normally got a ridge around it. The DNA cells from
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: your lips can get stuck around that ridge and it
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: can remain there for quite a long time. Recovering toothbrushes
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: from the crime scene, there were some in scene two.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: These are, again, a really good source of DNA. You're
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: not looking at the saliva, you actually look at the
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: skin cells from inside of the mouth. Toothbrush bristles are
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: normally nylon or viscose, and these are very tight-knit fibres.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So the DNA will really get embedded within those bristles,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: which means that it's very hard to wash that DNA away.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: The DNA swabs get fast-tracked through the police database, and
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the team also tests several items for fingerprints.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Smooth, shiny surfaces that are non-porous are really good surfaces
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: for fingerprints. Fingerprints are made up of a majority of
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: sweat and water and the amino acids within the sweat
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: will actually leave an imprint on the surface. There's a
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: number of powders that we can use on smooth, shiny surfaces.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Black powder is a carbon-based powder. You use a squirrel
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: hairbrush and it gives good contrast on a silver surface.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: The powder will actually stick to the ridges of the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: fingerprint and leave gaps in the furrow of the fingerprint impression.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Aluminium powder is good on a surface such as a
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Coke can because firstly there's good contrast with the colours
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: because you're putting a silver powder on a red surface
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: of the Coke can to build up the fingerprint rich
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: detail on the surface. There's several different lifting tapes that
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you can use to lift fingerprints depending on the surfaces
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: but you can use black gel which is quite good
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: to use on a rough surface or a curved surface
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: because you can mould it round the fingerprint. Smooth surfaces
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: we normally just use like a JLAR tape.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Whilst the police await any DNA or fingerprint matches, Paddy
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: has received the full pathologist report. The extent of Scott's
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: injuries suggests there was more than one offender.
• 13:13
  Speaker 11: The amount of injuries on Scott, he had two black eyes,
• 13:17
  Speaker 11: various bruises, marks all over his body. We believe that
• 13:22
  Speaker 11: the motive of Scott's death was robbery. Because of the
• 13:27
  Speaker 11: violence that was shown, myself and the team were convinced
• 13:32
  Speaker 11: that they will go on to do something like this again.
• 13:36
  Speaker 11: One of the main priorities had to be safety of
• 13:39
  Speaker 11: the public.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And one particular wound... could open up a new forensic lead.
• 13:45
  Speaker 11: He had a significant wound to his forearm. I personally
• 13:49
  Speaker 11: believe that was a defence wound and a knife was
• 13:52
  Speaker 11: used to cause that injury.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: At the crime scene, Scott's large fishing knife is missing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 11: If we could find the knife, it could assist us forensically.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Police can't locate the knife on the island, so call
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: in Peter Folding and his specialist underwater search team.
• 14:12
  Speaker 10: Our job is to get that evidence or somebody potentially
• 14:14
  Speaker 10: could come back in the middle of the night and
• 14:17
  Speaker 10: try and retrieve that evidence. Potentially there's DNA, there's fingerprints
• 14:20
  Speaker 10: on that. Although it's in the water, there's a good
• 14:22
  Speaker 10: way we can recover the evidence from that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: The island's riverbed spans more than 600 metres. Peter must
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: rely on his experience to narrow down the search area.
• 14:31
  Speaker 10: When I was carrying out the initial sweep, I said,
• 14:34
  Speaker 10: I think this is a great area because if he's
• 14:36
  Speaker 10: run out of the wood with a weapon, then he's
• 14:38
  Speaker 10: going to throw it. We won't want to go far
• 14:40
  Speaker 10: with it. police tasked us with fingertip shallow water search
• 14:44
  Speaker 10: around the edge and that's in zero visibility generally you've
• 14:49
  Speaker 10: got to be focused i close my eyes so i
• 14:53
  Speaker 10: can immerse myself into.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It the river search presents many difficulties more than 200
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: boats a day pass through here in the summer months.
• 15:02
  Speaker 10: A boat could come along with a long skeg on
• 15:04
  Speaker 10: the bottom and they could literally could ground out and
• 15:07
  Speaker 10: drag the evidence away. Around the other side of the island,
• 15:09
  Speaker 10: the water was flowing quick, so any evidence could potentially
• 15:12
  Speaker 10: be washed away. So it was all fastball.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: It was really, really.
• 15:16
  Speaker 10: Urgent to get this done.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: If there is a weapon in the water, the team
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: needs to locate it fast to stand any chance of
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: it providing them with evidence. The longer the life is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: in the water, the slimmer the chances.
• 15:28
  Speaker 10: So it was a particularly long dive. I was underwater
• 15:31
  Speaker 10: for about two hours and 15 minutes, just feeling along
• 15:34
  Speaker 10: the bottom. Following the line, slowly, slowly, I put my
• 15:38
  Speaker 10: hand on something and then very carefully I could feel
• 15:42
  Speaker 10: a handle and then I just could feel the blade
• 15:45
  Speaker 10: gently without cutting myself. I remember coming out of the water,
• 15:52
  Speaker 10: it was a bit like Excalibur, you know, coming out
• 15:55
  Speaker 10: of the water with this knife. It was great, yeah,
• 15:57
  Speaker 10: it really is. When you find evidence that you know
• 15:59
  Speaker 10: you're going to potentially get a conviction out of, then
• 16:01
  Speaker 10: that's really exciting for the team because it's a great find,
• 16:04
  Speaker 10: the police are happy, and then they can fastball and
• 16:07
  Speaker 10: start getting the investigation moving a lot quicker.
• 16:11
  Speaker 11: When the knife was found, it's really positive. You hope
• 16:14
  Speaker 11: that there may be that golden nugget that will link
• 16:17
  Speaker 11: it to your victim and, ideally, a suspect.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So on the knife that was recovered, we need to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: try and find the victim's DNA on the blade, potentially,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and then also the offender's DNA and or fingerprints on
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: the handle of the knife. Just because a knife's been
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: found in water doesn't mean that we negate any evidence
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: on there. We would still examine it. The chances of
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: finding fingerprints after a knife's been in water is very low.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It's not impossible, but it is very low. There are
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: certain areas where some DNA may catch and last longer
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: than other areas. The hilt of the handle is quite
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: a good area where some DNA could get caught and
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: not be washed off. A serrated edge of a knife, again,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: is really good for potential DNA to be caught in
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: the actual teeth of the serration, depending on how serrated
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: The forensic scientists couldn't locate any fingerprints, but send the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: swabs away hoping for a DNA match to both the
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: victim and an offender. Meanwhile, the test results are back
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: from the samples submitted earlier.
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: We got some really positive information as a result of
• 17:31
  Speaker 11: the forensics from the DNA.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Three suspects have been forensically linked to the crime scene.
• 17:37
  Speaker 11: What was interesting was that they were known to the police.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: DNA extracted from the bristles of the blue toothbrush matched
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: to 16-year-old Lenny Kraut, who has been reported missing from
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: his care home in Lancashire. Samples taken from the other
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: toothbrush also provided a match to Lenny's older brother, Shane Crought.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Fingerprints lifted from the Coke can and the Capri sandpatch
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: matched to a third person of interest, the Crought's cousin,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: 21-year-old Charles Smith. All three suspects have a history of offending.
• 18:13
  Speaker 11: It was important that we located them as quickly as
• 18:15
  Speaker 11: we could, as shocking as it was, the fact that
• 18:18
  Speaker 11: they were so young. It made no difference. We really
• 18:21
  Speaker 11: needed to get to the bottom of if they were
• 18:23
  Speaker 11: responsible or not. Now it was all about getting out there.
• 18:29
  Speaker 11: Let's arrest them. Let's see what they've got to say.
• 18:35
  Speaker 11: They'd all gone on the run. We believed that they
• 18:38
  Speaker 11: knew that they were wanted for murder. Charlie Smith was
• 18:42
  Speaker 11: seen walking down the street. They just happened to see him.
• 18:46
  Speaker 11: Smith trying to run away. Lo and behold, he was lifted.
• 18:52
  Speaker 11: Lenny had returned to the children's home back in Lancashire,
• 18:55
  Speaker 11: so we quickly managed to find Lenny. Shane was the
• 19:01
  Speaker 11: more difficult one. At one point, he actually jumped out
• 19:04
  Speaker 11: of a window to evade capture, and he was lying
• 19:06
  Speaker 11: low for quite a while, going round to different family
• 19:10
  Speaker 11: addresses in order to evade capture. But we finally got him.
• 19:15
  Speaker 11: We had them all in custody and they were all
• 19:18
  Speaker 11: interviewed having been arrested for Scott's murder.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: This interview is taking place at Guildford Police Station being
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: both audio and also it's been video recorded. So you've
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: got the cameras in the corners, it's a soundproof room.
• 19:33
  Speaker 8: The police caution says that you do not have to
• 19:35
  Speaker 8: say anything but it may harm your defence if you
• 19:37
  Speaker 8: do not mention when questioned something which you later align
• 19:39
  Speaker 8: in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
• 19:44
  Speaker 12: Scott Wilkinson was found murdered on the afternoon of Thursday
• 19:50
  Speaker 12: the 28th of July this year forensic evidence has linked
• 19:54
  Speaker 12: you to that offence from 6 o'clock in the evening
• 19:59
  Speaker 12: onwards last Wednesday the 27th of July tell me where
• 20:03
  Speaker 12: you were Shane no comment what was your location no
• 20:07
  Speaker 12: comment who were you with No comment. Tell me what happened, Shane.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 20:17
  Speaker 8: Lenny, were you in Walton-upon-Thames on Wednesday 27th July?
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: Have you been there since that time?
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 20:30
  Speaker 11: It's not a shock when a suspect fails to answer
• 20:35
  Speaker 11: any questions. As investigators and interviewers, we prepare for.
• 20:39
  Speaker 12: That I want to talk about the weapon that was
• 20:42
  Speaker 12: used to assault and kill and murder Scott. Describe that
• 20:47
  Speaker 12: weapon to me.
• 20:49
  Speaker 11: So we will carry on and ask potentially hundreds of questions.
• 20:54
  Speaker 12: Where did that weapon come from, Shane? Who used that weapon?
• 21:00
  Speaker 11: I liken it to the closing of all the doors,
• 21:03
  Speaker 11: because once that door is closed and that topic is covered,
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: then actually... they can't really go back on it.
• 21:09
  Speaker 8: We believe that you were at the island with at
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: least two other people, Shane Crawt and Charlie Smith.
• 21:19
  Speaker 11: No comment.
• 21:21
  Speaker 12: Is it true to say that they're family members of yours, Shane?
• 21:24
  Speaker 9: When families offend together in groups, there's a code of honour.
• 21:29
  Speaker 9: If there's a genetic connection between family members, particularly if
• 21:34
  Speaker 9: they haven't had strong relationships with a caregiver, then there
• 21:37
  Speaker 9: may be an even stronger connection in looking after one another,
• 21:42
  Speaker 9: both during the commission of crimes but also after detection.
• 21:45
  Speaker 12: So I believe that it was Lenny, Charlie and yourself
• 21:49
  Speaker 12: who were in that area last week. Is that correct?
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: No, come on.
• 21:56
  Speaker 11: The suspects were in custody for a couple of days.
• 22:00
  Speaker 11: We obtained warrants for further detention so as we could
• 22:03
  Speaker 11: question them further. Through those interviews, we're preparing to get
• 22:08
  Speaker 11: to the truth. If they speak to us, we can
• 22:11
  Speaker 11: then go out and check those accounts. And that certainly
• 22:14
  Speaker 11: happened in relation to Charles Smith.
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: I just want to say one thing.
• 22:18
  Speaker 13: I ain't no murderer.
• 22:19
  Speaker 11: I'm asked the truth.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Fisherman Scott Wilkinson has been murdered. Three suspects were linked
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to the crime scene by their DNA and fingerprints. Forensic
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: scientists have submitted samples taken from potential murder weapons. The
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: police still need more concrete evidence to charge the suspects,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: who are still refusing to answer questions. And time is
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: running out for Paddy Mayers and his team.
• 22:51
  Speaker 12: What happened with Scott after he's been beaten?
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: No comment.
• 23:02
  Speaker 12: Where did you go?
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 23:05
  Speaker 12: Where did Charlie go?
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 23:08
  Speaker 12: And Lenny, where did he go?
• 23:09
  Speaker 8: No comment.
• 23:10
  Speaker 9: The research indicates that there's a kind of us versus
• 23:13
  Speaker 9: them mentality between young people that commit prolific violence and
• 23:17
  Speaker 9: authorities such as the police. They are family members, they
• 23:21
  Speaker 9: have presumably a close relationship, they want to protect one
• 23:24
  Speaker 9: another and they don't want to implicate one another. And
• 23:27
  Speaker 9: it may be that if they implicate somebody else that
• 23:29
  Speaker 9: was there, they actually implicate themselves being there too.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Whilst the detectives continue with their questioning, the lab results
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: from the woods seized from the crime scene are in.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And it's not good news. They've all come back negative.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: That doesn't surprise me because there seem to be a
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: number of items within that scene that could have been
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: used as a murder weapon and items that also may
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: well have been discarded.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: The results from the knife tests are also in.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: No forensic evidence was found on the knife. because it
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: had been in water for a number of days. The
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: victim had a slash wound to the arm. It's a
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: very glancing blow. There wouldn't be as much transfer of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: DNA onto the blade of the knife as if he'd
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: been stabbed multiple times, and the whole blade potentially has
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: been inserted into the victim.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Brothers Lenny and Shane have given very little away during
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the interview, but their older cousin Charles has asked his
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: solicitor to read a prepared statement.
• 24:24
  Speaker 13: I remember speaking to a man in his 40s. He
• 24:28
  Speaker 13: said his name was Scott. We were speaking about fishing
• 24:31
  Speaker 13: and the types of fish he was catching. Shane and
• 24:34
  Speaker 13: Lenny were there. Shane put his fishing stuff in his tent.
• 24:38
  Speaker 13: Then we decided to come back. All the fishing stuff
• 24:41
  Speaker 13: was gone and the tents were turned over. They had
• 24:44
  Speaker 13: been smashed up. When we got back, Scott was there
• 24:48
  Speaker 13: on his own and said he hadn't seen what had
• 24:50
  Speaker 13: happened as he was asleep. He was helping Shane look
• 24:54
  Speaker 13: for his fishing rods. I was speaking to Scott for
• 24:57
  Speaker 13: a while. He was a really nice guy.
• 24:59
  Speaker 11: He put himself at the scene. He was there. He'd
• 25:02
  Speaker 11: been speaking with Scott, said he was a really nice chap.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: About an hour later, I then left.
• 25:08
  Speaker 13: Shane and Lenny also left and went in the opposite
• 25:11
  Speaker 13: direction at the same time. I denied causing any harm
• 25:14
  Speaker 13: to Scott and did not witness anyone else causing him
• 25:17
  Speaker 13: any harm. After I left on Tuesday 26th July 2016
• 25:22
  Speaker 13: and have not returned to the river.
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: We do appreciate you giving us this, because with all
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: these investigations, particularly a murder investigation.
• 25:30
  Speaker 11: I just want to.
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: Say one thing, that I ain't no murderer, I'm asked
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: the truth. OK, do you know who's responsible for this?
• 25:36
  Speaker 11: I can't remember.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: There is insufficient evidence to charge the suspects, and the
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: extended custody time limit is up.
• 25:44
  Speaker 11: What the evidence did show us was that the Croats
• 25:48
  Speaker 11: and Smith had been on the island. They had been
• 25:51
  Speaker 11: conversing with Scott, unfortunately. The forensics didn't link the offenders
• 25:57
  Speaker 11: to Scott and his murder. At that point, they were released.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: This is a blow to both the detectives and to
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Scott's fiancée, Lisa.
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: I couldn't believe it. It was a shock to me
• 26:14
  Speaker 7: when I found out. It's like my whole soul has
• 26:19
  Speaker 7: been ripped apart.
• 26:21
  Speaker 11: Having spent a lot of time with Scott's family, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 11: in particular his mum and dad. It was clear that
• 26:29
  Speaker 11: he was really loved by them, missed by them. He
• 26:34
  Speaker 11: loved his fishing, and I don't think anyone ever believed
• 26:38
  Speaker 11: that he would go fishing and die under these circumstances.
• 26:44
  Speaker 11: I think as a team, want to do the right
• 26:46
  Speaker 11: thing and leave no stone unturned for Scott's family, especially
• 26:51
  Speaker 11: mum and dad. and we'd have a photo of Scott
• 26:54
  Speaker 11: up on the briefing screen. Now, this is what it's about.
• 26:57
  Speaker 11: It's about getting justice for Scott and doing our best
• 27:02
  Speaker 11: to gather in as much evidence as we possibly could
• 27:06
  Speaker 11: in order to hopefully prove their involvement in Scott's murder.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Despite the setback, Paddy and the major crime team are
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: hoping that digital forensics can help them prove who killed Scott.
• 27:20
  Speaker 11: CCTV footage. was going to be key.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: For such a large island, there is very limited CCTV.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Paddy's team sees all the footage from the Weir pub,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: 50 metres from the crime scene on the opposite bank,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: and also from the lock gate, over half a kilometre away.
• 27:40
  Speaker 11: This bridge is the only way on and off the island.
• 27:44
  Speaker 11: You can see to my left, you've got the locks
• 27:47
  Speaker 11: and the CCTV cameras that were quite pivotal to the investigation.
• 27:51
  Speaker 11: And if we look at this side of the river,
• 27:54
  Speaker 11: that's the footpath that leads to the Weir Public House.
• 27:59
  Speaker 11: One of the first priorities was to prove or disprove
• 28:03
  Speaker 11: Charles Smith's story.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Charles Smith claims that he was in the area on Tuesday,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: two days before Scott's body was discovered. The team digitally
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: examine his mobile phone history and track his movements to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: a nearby shop where he last topped up his phone credit.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Now they have identified his clothing, they can review the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Lockgate CCTV, where he is seen cycling along the towpath
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: towards the footbridge to the island. Officers examine the footage
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: frame by frame to see if they can debunk Smith's
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: claims that he did not return to the island on
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the Wednesday. Digital specialists analyse every camera angle.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: The officers that looked at the footage to clock who
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: was walking past or going on and off the island
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: found it extremely difficult. The majority of CCTV is not
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: aimed at looking for offenders and criminals. And in this
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: particular case, the cameras in question, one was covering the lock,
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: so therefore the boat's going up and down to make
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: sure it's safe waterways, and the other camera is for
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: the public house.
• 29:08
  Speaker 11: And in particular.
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: the footage from the lock it wasn't designed to focus
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: on the bridge to see who's going past so therefore
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: you're looking at their movement the mannerisms and other things
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: to corroborate the person whether it is their clothing and
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: things on their clothing or what they're carrying and what
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: they've got with them in this particular case the positives
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: out of the CCTV for that area is the type
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: of people that frequent the location the dog walkers families
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: the Krauts and Charlie Smith on this occasion would stand
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: out compared to everybody else.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: They eventually find the evidence thereafter. The footage shows Charles,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Lenny and Shane heading onto the island on the Wednesday.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: They are then captured on camera at a nearby water
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: station filling their bottles, proving Charles Smith's claims that they
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: did not return to the island after Tuesday as false.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Scott's fiancée was the last person to see him alive.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: She is seen on the Weir pub security camera heading
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to the island around 9.30pm. As the sun sets, the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: CCTV footage becomes even more difficult to analyse.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: Were you relying on shapes, colours, lighting as it goes
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: across the bridge?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Scott walked Lisa off the bridge around 11pm on the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Wednesday evening. This is confirmed by the cluster of bright
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: pixels showing Scott's head torch moving along the bridge. Lisa
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: is then seen heading home on the pub CCTV. That
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: leaves a ten-hour window until Scott was reported missing. Footage
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: from the four cameras is examined frame by frame, a
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: specialist scan for the tiniest of movements. It's a massive
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: task with more than 3.5 million frames to view.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: If you have CCTV cameras that aren't maintained, then the
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: quality is quite poor. You have spiders and you have
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: cobwebs which cause issues and cause also reflections of the
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: light which can be deceiving. You may think it's a
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: person when it's not a person. The amount of hours
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: the officers spent painstakingly for hours on end looking at
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: who was going past, who went on and off the island,
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: was huge.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: It is proving extremely difficult to confirm if the boys
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: left the island before or after the attack. But Paddy
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: receives some information that provides a significant breakthrough and a
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: first for Surrey Police.
• 31:46
  Speaker 11: During the pathologist's post-mortem, we established that Scott had a
• 31:52
  Speaker 11: heart rate monitor fitted within his body and that was
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: as a result of an ongoing medical issue.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Scott had a heart condition that could sometimes trigger seizures.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: He had a heart monitor embedded in his chest so
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that cardiologists could record data linked to his seizures. It
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: was programmed to store data when Scott's heart rate became erratic.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: This data would remain on the device for four years.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: The information was extracted and sent to a specialist analyst
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: in Chicago. The results would provide Paddy with unprecedented evidence.
• 32:27
  Speaker 11: That heart rate monitor told us a massive story. At 23.18
• 32:34
  Speaker 11: on that Thursday night, Scott's heart rate went up to 122.
• 32:40
  Speaker 11: That's very likely to be the adrenaline rush when he's
• 32:43
  Speaker 11: being attacked.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: BELL RINGS.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: With this key information, officers time the route from the
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: murder site to the footbridge.
• 33:01
  Speaker 11: We know from walkthroughs that we've done as a team
• 33:05
  Speaker 11: that it takes roughly six minutes to get from scene
• 33:09
  Speaker 11: one up the path to the footbridge.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Having this timestamp means the CCTV experts can hone in
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and super enhance the footage from the footbridge camera in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the minutes after the attack occurred.
• 33:26
  Speaker 11: Four minutes later, we have our three suspects leaving the island.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Despite this key piece of digital forensic evidence, it is
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: still not enough to prove that the three prime suspects
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: were the killers.
• 33:42
  Speaker 11: With the lack of forensics linking these guys to the murder,
• 33:46
  Speaker 11: we needed to identify anyone with information in relation to
• 33:51
  Speaker 11: the murder. We know from the intelligence that we'd had
• 33:54
  Speaker 11: that they had bragged about what they'd done. The house-to-house
• 33:59
  Speaker 11: inquiries were massive. And to be honest, part of it
• 34:01
  Speaker 11: was as well, let's rattle their cages. I wanted them
• 34:04
  Speaker 11: to talk. I wanted them to be worried. And I
• 34:06
  Speaker 11: wanted them to speak with people in the hope that
• 34:09
  Speaker 11: someone would come to us. By doing the house-to-house inquiries
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: is in the hope that we find witnesses. And in
• 34:19
  Speaker 11: this case, we had three really important witnesses that were identified.
• 34:24
  Speaker 11: And these were three young lads who were in Groveland's
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: Park on the night of the murder. And they were
• 34:32
  Speaker 11: approached by the Crots and Smith. I don't know how
• 34:35
  Speaker 11: to explain it. Probably still high from what they'd done.
• 34:40
  Speaker 11: And they warned these boys, you know, don't be messing
• 34:43
  Speaker 11: with us. We've just killed someone tonight. And they'd even
• 34:47
  Speaker 11: acted out what they'd done to Scott, showing how they
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: stamped on him, stamped on his head. and they were
• 34:54
  Speaker 11: laughing and joking.
• 34:56
  Speaker 9: Usually after the event we would witness feelings of remorse
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: and guilt. What's interesting about young people who inflict really
• 35:04
  Speaker 9: serious fatal violence and then immediately brag to others about it,
• 35:08
  Speaker 9: it's an indication that they may be desensitised to the
• 35:11
  Speaker 9: gravity of the situation. They may start to see violent
• 35:15
  Speaker 9: events as accomplishments or something to brag about or to
• 35:19
  Speaker 9: generate street cred for themselves and a sign of that
• 35:22
  Speaker 9: recognition that they're seeking for having achieved something or accomplished
• 35:27
  Speaker 9: something that they may be in some ways proud of.
• 35:30
  Speaker 9: It's the opposite of what we normally see. The emotions
• 35:32
  Speaker 9: of shame and guilt and remorse are actually completely opposed
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: emotions to things like pride and feeling very positive about
• 35:40
  Speaker 9: one's action.
• 35:40
  Speaker 11: At that point, there was nothing out in the media.
• 35:45
  Speaker 11: Nobody knew that Scott was missing and we certainly didn't
• 35:48
  Speaker 11: know until 4 o'clock, 4.30 the following afternoon that Scott
• 35:53
  Speaker 11: had been murdered. That told us that they must have
• 35:57
  Speaker 11: been at the scene at the time and they'd actually
• 36:01
  Speaker 11: admitted that they had killed the man. I was quite
• 36:07
  Speaker 11: happy that it wouldn't be very long before we would
• 36:10
  Speaker 11: have a day of action which would result in the
• 36:12
  Speaker 11: further arrests of the offenders.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: As Paddy builds his case, he's handed the most significant
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence to date.
• 36:28
  Speaker 11: The secret recording, that was a golden nugget that I
• 36:33
  Speaker 11: would never have expected and will probably never happen again.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Paddy Mayers and the major crime team are investigating the
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: murder of fisherman Scott Wilkinson in Surrey. After months of
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: intense police work, the most compelling piece of evidence has
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: come to Paddy's attention.
• 37:00
  Speaker 11: The secret recording, we never have imagined that we would
• 37:04
  Speaker 11: ever be provided with such a piece of evidence.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: An associate of Charles Smith was being investigated for a
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: separate matter, and to the team's surprise... he presented the
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: police with a secret recording of Smith talking about the murder.
• 37:19
  Speaker 11: It confirmed a lot of the confession.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Evidence that we'd got.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: You had Charlie Smith saying.
• 37:42
  Speaker 11: Within the confession on the tape about Lenny Crought slashing
• 37:47
  Speaker 11: Scott with a knife. No one would have known that.
• 37:50
  Speaker 11: It was just that little added extra, which would really
• 37:54
  Speaker 11: be positive for a jury to hear. We decided on
• 37:58
  Speaker 11: a day of action, we had the CPS on board
• 38:01
  Speaker 11: with the prosecutor. We decided, obviously, we wanted to arrest
• 38:05
  Speaker 11: all at the same time, same days. It was a
• 38:07
  Speaker 11: massive event for the team and certainly Scott's family involved.
• 38:12
  Speaker 11: So we knew that Spith was still within the family home,
• 38:15
  Speaker 11: so quite local.
• 38:19
  Speaker 8: What's going on?
• 38:20
  Speaker 10: What's going on?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Why am I being arrested again for this?
• 38:24
  Speaker 10: As a result of the continued investigation into Scott's murder,
• 38:26
  Speaker 10: we now have substantial new.
• 38:28
  Speaker 12: Evidence that links you to his murder.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: You do not have to say anything, but it may
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: harm your.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: Defence if you do not mention when questioned something which
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: you later rely on in court.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Anything you do say may be given in evidence. All
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: three suspects are rearrested for Scott's murder. In custody, the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: police disclosed the witness statements from the boys in the
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: park who claimed the three suspects bragged about the murder
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: The area I want to concentrate on now is a
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: place called Groveland's Park. Three witnesses, around about midnight of
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: the same night of the murder, have come forward and
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: given statements in relation to you, Lenny and Charlie approaching
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: them and you starting to talk. about what you've just done.
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: And the comment is, we just murdered someone. Who said that?
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: They described being, feeling intimidated by you three. Was it
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: you who intimidated them?
• 39:25
  Speaker 11: Shane Crought provided no comment to all questions asked to them.
• 39:29
  Speaker 11: Was that you, Shane and Charlie going to the park
• 39:31
  Speaker 11: and talking about the murder?
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 39:33
  Speaker 11: As for Lenny Crought, likewise, no comment. I'd say reasonably relaxed.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Was that Charlie Smith that was doing most of the talking?
• 39:43
  Speaker 11: No comment.
• 39:44
  Speaker 8: Do you remember that, Charlie?
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: No comment.
• 39:45
  Speaker 8: Was that you who said that?
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 39:47
  Speaker 11: Charles Smith, he was probably the most... Do you remember
• 39:51
  Speaker 11: that conversation with those three lads in Grimlands Park? No comment.
• 39:55
  Speaker 11: Fucking shit, mate. He became quite aggressive with the interviewing officers.
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: You're just making fucking shit up, mate.
• 40:02
  Speaker 11: That's what you're doing.
• 40:03
  Speaker 12: Can we stop the interview for a second, please?
• 40:05
  Speaker 11: Yeah, but they're fucking making shit up, mate.
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: It's fucked up, mate.
• 40:07
  Speaker 8: Charlie, can we just stop the interview for a few.
• 40:11
  Speaker 11: Minutes, please?
• 40:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no problem at all.
• 40:12
  Speaker 11: I think it showed us that, you know, we had
• 40:16
  Speaker 11: him and the others backed into a corner.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Police then present the suspects with the secret recording of
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Charles Smith implicating his cousins, Lenny and Shane, as the killers.
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: This, we say, it's quite clear, details your involvement and
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: others in the murder of Scott Wilkinson. And I'll tell
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: you who the voices are, but you may well recognise them.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Why'd they do that? What's in murder for them? They're scumbags,
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: you know. Probably scumbags.
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: First time I've seen them in years, like, they've been killed,
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: haven't they?
• 40:49
  Speaker 11: And then he changed the spot.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Down into the mountain, then.
• 40:55
  Speaker 10: He got the mark up and out from there to there.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: And the shank, well, he had a nail and a
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: stick like that. I don't know what they told you.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Do you know what that is?
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: A nail and a stick like that. Trust me. Well,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: that's such.
• 41:04
  Speaker 10: The man was a lovely man. I've gotten so well
• 41:06
  Speaker 10: with the man, true?
• 41:07
  Speaker 12: And they fucking done that to him.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: And then he's the one that's done most of it,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I don't think. Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: To be honest with you, I wish I did tell
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: the people I had done something like that.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: But if they think about it now....
• 41:23
  Speaker 11: I'd like to think that they knew at this point,
• 41:26
  Speaker 11: because of the evidence that we had, they would have
• 41:30
  Speaker 11: known at that point that actually we're in trouble.
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: Can I talk to my client?
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:47
  Speaker 8: You said that you'd wish you'd told the police what
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: they'd done.
• 41:51
  Speaker 11: This is your opportunity, Charlie, to tell me.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: No comment.
• 41:55
  Speaker 11: He knew that the game was probably over. We know
• 41:58
  Speaker 11: from the intelligence that we'd had, a comment was made by,
• 42:01
  Speaker 11: I think it was the two Croats, to say, all
• 42:04
  Speaker 11: we need to do is murder one more person and
• 42:06
  Speaker 11: we'll be serial killers. Now they were in serious trouble.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: MUSIC PLAYS.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: At Crown Court, all three suspects plead not guilty. Lenny
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: refused to give evidence. And Shane and Charles blamed each other.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: After a five-week trial, the verdicts were in. The jury
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: believed Charles Smith was involved, but was not culpable of murder.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: He was sentenced to 13 years for manslaughter. Both Shane
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: and Lenny Crawt were found guilty of murder and sentenced
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: to a minimum of 15 years.
• 42:59
  Speaker 11: I think we were satisfied with the convictions, but really
• 43:05
  Speaker 11: I think we were just pleased for the family. I'll
• 43:10
  Speaker 11: always remember this job. It's one of those jobs, it
• 43:13
  Speaker 11: was good old-fashioned detective work where the team remained committed
• 43:18
  Speaker 11: and worked really hard in order that we get justice
• 43:21
  Speaker 11: for Scott. It's just really positive knowing that those responsible
• 43:28
  Speaker 11: are now locked up and behind bars for many years
• 43:32
  Speaker 11: and knowing that they won't be in a position to
• 43:35
  Speaker 11: harm anyone else for a long time.
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: The rest of my life, ifs, buts, they destroyed my life.
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: They've destroyed his family's life. And, yeah, they're doing time
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: for it. But at the end of the day, it's
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: still not coming back.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you.