Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Andor S2 with Costume Designer, Michael Wilkinson

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Andor S2 with Costume Designer, Michael Wilkinson · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:08
I am your host, Spencer Williams, and thank you so much
0:11
for joining me for another special episode.
0:14
Hey costume nerds, it's so good to see you all.
0:17
I hope you're all enjoying your summer vacation or the
0:20
beginnings of we over here at the Art of Costume podcast have
0:24
also been a little bit of a summer vacation.
0:27
Elizabeth is out, you know, I'm sure gardening and all those fun
0:31
things. While Daniel and I actually just
0:33
got back from Orlando, FL at Disney World.
0:36
So we got to explore Epcot, Animal Kingdom, Magic Kingdom.
0:42
It was fun. It was obviously aggressively
0:44
hot, but we had a good time. We had a really good time, but
0:47
I'm glad to be back talking about all things costume design.
0:51
We have a great lineup of episodes coming up.
0:54
I want to announce that Elizabeth will be joining me
0:57
once again starting on our episode releasing on July 15th.
1:02
We will be talking about a film that I have never seen and I'm
1:06
sure you're all going to freak out because this is so this film
1:10
is so much other people's lives. We're going to be talking about
1:13
Pride and Prejudice, of course, for the big anniversary.
1:16
So I'm very excited. We're getting into like period
1:19
era hot girl summer, which Elizabeth has some good things
1:23
cooking for us there. So I'm very excited to finally
1:26
see this movie. Keira Knightley, of course, I'm
1:28
very excited. But today we are talking about a
1:32
series that was just released, a second series.
1:35
And I think we can all agree that as the costume community,
1:39
we can't stop talking about. We are of course talking about
1:42
and OR Season 2. Before we get into all the good
1:47
stuff, let's read a little summary, shall we?
1:50
All right, and OR Season 2 takes place over 4 years, showing the
1:53
making of leaders Cassian, Andor and Mon Mothma and the
1:57
burgeoning rebellion poised to take down the Empire, leading
2:01
directly up to the event scene in Rogue One, A Star Wars Story.
2:05
And that is the second season of Andor.
2:07
We do have an episode about the first season with costume
2:11
designer Michael Wilkinson. So if you scroll into our
2:15
catalog, I'm sure you can find it.
2:17
It was a great conversation and I'm very excited to say that
2:21
costume designer Michael Wilkinson is back today to now
2:24
talk about the second season. And I am just so excited.
2:27
There's so many great costumes to get into.
2:29
You know, Michael Wilkinson for his incredible lineup of noble
2:33
work such as Party Monster, 300, Watchmen, Tron Legacy, I believe
2:39
he Co costume designed. That's a favorite film of mine.
2:43
Sucker Punch, Twilight, Breaking Dawn, parts 1 and two, American
2:47
Hustle, Man of Steel, He did basically all the Zack Snyder
2:51
films, you know, Justice League, Batman VS Superman, Aladdin,
2:57
Jingle, Jingle, A Christmas Story for which we actually have
2:59
an episode about believe it or not, we did it a couple holidays
3:03
ago. And of course 3 Body Problem,
3:05
which was the recent series that was released on Netflix.
3:08
I do have an interview with Michael Wilkinson about that on
3:10
the Art of costume.com. It's a a read only article that
3:14
I hope you'll enjoy and or Season 2 was incredible.
3:17
I mean, just thinking about all the different worlds we got to
3:20
go to from Chandrilla and seeing the very traditional wedding
3:26
costumes that we got to see Amman, Mothma and the rest of
3:30
the characters from going to Gorman and seeing that the this
3:33
very traumatic event. But this is a plant that's very
3:36
much cemented in fashion and incredible fabrics.
3:40
Then of course, going to see more, of course, on which I
3:42
always love, of course, is Mon Mothma summer over here.
3:46
So we talk all about Mon Mothma. So enjoy this conversation with
3:50
costume designer Michael Wilkinson.
3:52
We really get into all of it. I also just got to say that
3:55
Michael is just such an incredible costume designer and
3:59
such a great person and such a fun person to talk to.
4:03
I'm so smart. So I know you're all going to
4:05
love this interview. After a quick break, I'm so
4:07
excited to welcome in costume designer Michael Wilkinson.
4:15
Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
4:19
I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
4:21
show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
4:28
of Costume where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
4:32
T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
4:36
comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
4:40
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
4:43
Now back to the show. Well, I am so excited to welcome
4:52
back to the Art of Costume podcast our friend, costume
4:55
designer Michael Wilkinson. Hey, Michael, how's it going?
4:59
Hey, I'm doing really well. Nice to speak with you again.
5:02
Yeah, all the way from Australia here, taking a little bit some
5:05
time off before the next big thing, whatever that might be.
5:08
Right. Great.
5:10
Well, you're going to need it because I'm sure everyone's
5:13
talking about Andor right now and everyone wants to talk to
5:15
you. So I think we should just jump
5:17
right into it. So the anticipation for the
5:20
second season has been unreal. And now that the series is out
5:25
and completed, can we just take a moment to reflect back on the
5:28
series? I mean, especially seeing this
5:30
huge positive fan response. People love the show and they
5:33
love the costumes. Was was the past couple weeks
5:36
been like seeing everyone reacting to the show in real
5:38
time? I mean, it's been pretty
5:40
overwhelming really and incredibly gratifying.
5:44
I've, you know, it's about 5 years and since I started
5:48
working on that and, or I've done two seasons and it's just
5:51
the work represents so much hard work by so many people, so many
5:56
people in the costume department.
5:58
We've had, we averaged on about 90 members of anyone given time.
6:02
Wow. Between the tailors, the
6:03
embroiderers, the milliners, the people that, the textile
6:07
artists, the people that sourced fabrics, the people that looked
6:10
after the, the actors, the people that ran the office,
6:14
there was just, it was such a mammoth effort.
6:16
And I think it's something like 20 hours of episodes in over the
6:20
two seasons. So they're basically like doing
6:22
what, 8 feature films? So it was just some constant
6:26
stream everyday, more and more costumes, more characters, and
6:31
you know, we just wanted to make every single one as interesting
6:34
and as compelling as the fans would like them to be.
6:38
So it was. It was an amazing, amazing ride.
6:41
Right, It's not like yet there was ever any lull points.
6:44
I mean, it was just continuously building ourself and gain more
6:47
and more epic and even when it might have been, you know, not
6:51
so much action and moment you just knew is right around the
6:53
corner building up. So it was very exciting to see.
6:56
Before we get into the final details of the fine details of
7:00
Season 2, I want to talk about your collaboration of show
7:02
creator Tony Gilroy as you began to prepare for Season 2.
7:06
You had already done Season 1 and they're getting ready for
7:08
Season 2. What is kind of the expectation
7:10
for Season 2 as you start again to the scripts that you what?
7:13
What was those conversations like?
7:16
I mean, I think it was pretty much very similar to season 1.
7:18
We really wanted the characters to be incredibly authentic and
7:23
grounded. You know, we, we were treating
7:25
this as a drama, not just a sort of like a quick action fun
7:29
series, but something for adults, something incredibly
7:32
detailed. And you know, Tony's characters
7:35
were very complex and flawed and fascinating.
7:38
And so for costume designers to look at all of that and to work
7:43
out how to express all of that in their clothing, it was just
7:46
an incredible opportunity. Let alone going to 9 different
7:51
planets, having to really define each of those planets through
7:55
their clothing and their culture and their costumes, that was
7:59
incredible. But yeah, we kind of had, we had
8:03
a couple of rules, like really nothing could just be
8:06
ornamental. Not, you know, just because it
8:08
looked cool. That wasn't good enough.
8:09
There really had to be a reason for it.
8:12
And it had to be something that, you know, showed the audience
8:15
something about the the character and who they were, the
8:18
the choice of the fabrics, the silhouettes, whether it was
8:21
tight or loose or baggy or out of sumptuous fabrics or very
8:26
rough fabrics. There was the whole spectrum in
8:29
Andor. I mean, really wanted to dive
8:31
deep into all of those beautiful costume details.
8:34
And we're going to break down some of these huge worlds.
8:36
Some of them. I was thinking about you the
8:38
entire time seeing these episodes.
8:40
I'm excited to get into it. So I think we should begin with
8:43
Cassie and Andor, who, you know, really is the heart of this
8:46
series. We've known this character now
8:48
going on for, I mean, what a deck almost a decade at this
8:51
point. When we meet Cassian in the
8:54
second season, you can feel that there's this newfound confidence
8:57
with him. Of course, you know, it's dark
9:00
times, but he's not the newcomer that we met in Season 1.
9:04
Tell me about this arc. They really got to show of him.
9:07
That kind of plays out through, you know, the beginning of
9:10
season 2 going into the finale, which we're going to talk about
9:12
that separately. But you really can't see this
9:14
progression take place in him throughout the series,
9:17
especially in these disguises that he pulls up.
9:19
He's I feel like he really gets his head around what he's
9:22
supposed to be doing here. Exactly.
9:24
He's kind of like halfway on his journey to becoming the
9:27
amazingly disciplined and committed leader that we that we
9:31
see in Rogue One. So at the beginning of season 1,
9:34
he's a bit of a mess up. He's like, you know,
9:37
disappointing everyone. He's has no discipline.
9:39
He doesn't really trying to work out what he's doing At the
9:42
beginning of season 2, he's on his way.
9:44
You know, he's sort of he's starting to be a little bit more
9:47
disciplined, less of a hot head. He still has, there's a lot to
9:50
learn. So we, we see him first as
9:54
actually in an Imperial test pilot suit for the first 3
9:57
episodes. And I love that, the
9:59
audaciousness of seeing our, you know, Rebel Alliance hero
10:03
dressed in an uniform. It's kind of cool.
10:06
And I designed something for him that's based on the, the, the
10:10
pilot uniform. But we added this sort of red
10:13
section to go across the front to sort of yeah, let audiences
10:16
know that it's the test pilot. It's not an actual approved,
10:21
approved ship or cost or uniform.
10:25
So and then we also then see him hiding out in Coruscant and he's
10:30
kind of on the down low there. He's trying to blend into the
10:33
lower echelons of of Coruscant. And so his costumes there go
10:37
very dark and layered and textural and could have much
10:43
more urban feel to it. Then he goes to Gorman twice on
10:49
different missions and 1st as a a very, I guess stylish costume
10:57
fashion designer. Oh.
10:59
Yeah, we're going to talk all about that one.
11:01
Don't worry. And then as as Ronnie Gooch, A
11:05
journalist like a photo, a a sort of war correspondent
11:09
journalist. So, and then he goes to, he has
11:13
a mission on Coruscant where he's extracting Monmothner from
11:17
the Senate. So that had had to have a much
11:19
more sort of urban feel that would that would sort of blend
11:23
in with the people at the Senate.
11:26
And then of course, he ends up in Yemen.
11:27
So, so it's a really, there's a amazing sort of spectrum of
11:31
costumes for him in season 2. I think he has about 17
11:35
different costumes, each one, you know, 5 or 6 multiples
11:39
because of all the stunts and the action and widow double S So
11:44
that was a big body of work. Just, you know, Team Cassian in
11:47
the costume department was just, you know, pumping out 24/7 lots
11:51
of lots of very detailed costumes.
11:55
Yeah, Don't you like really kind of realize that when you're
11:57
watching this series, 2 of this, how many disguises he's going
12:00
through and how many different characters he's actively
12:03
playing? We're going to come back to,
12:05
like you mentioned, one of those disguises because it really
12:08
brought me a lot of joy. I'm very excited to get into
12:10
that. But first, I want to take a
12:12
moment to talk about one plan that we got to see toward
12:15
beginning, which has been a row when we meet the Farex refugees,
12:21
such as Bicks. They're on a farming community,
12:23
and I was really fascinated by the textiles and the colors you
12:26
chose, which helped them really feel like they were part of this
12:29
community. So can you talk about those
12:31
choices that helped to make these characters feel like they
12:34
belong and really blend in but still have the agricultural
12:38
element? Yeah, one of one of the joys of
12:41
designing for for Andor is just this chance to sort of really
12:46
define different cultures. And so myself and the production
12:50
designer Luke Hull, we talk a lot about how do we define these
12:54
different places, give them their own palette and sexuals.
12:57
We talk about what resources are available to these people.
13:01
You know, it's to build their environments and their housing
13:04
and their buildings or to make, make clothing out of what's
13:08
available to them, what's what's important to them as a culture.
13:11
So when it came to Amina Rao, we, we really wanted to lean
13:15
very much into this very kind of human style of clothing, if you
13:20
will. It's like everything's worn.
13:22
It's got a beautiful sort of utilitarian workwear vibe to it.
13:27
Everything's kind of patched and hand stitched and has this very
13:31
personal quality to it, which was kind of the extreme opposite
13:35
of anything to do with the imperial world, which was black
13:39
and white and tailored and very fastidious and put together in
13:43
Militant. So we wanted, we was basically
13:46
thinking what is the opposite to all of that?
13:48
So used a lot of sort of hand detailing and punching of, of
13:52
threads and things through the different fabrics to get this
13:56
sense of things that have been repaired and had a, had a, you
13:59
know, they've been touched by humans.
14:01
So that's what we were aiming for, for the the costumes of
14:04
this agricultural planet. Yeah, it came through
14:08
beautifully and it was really nice to just see some of these
14:10
like warmer tones to which we don't really get to see so much
14:13
when it comes to anything Empire related, honestly.
14:18
I'm a real fan of workwear and utility wear in general I find
14:22
fascinating, so it was a great opportunity to look at, you
14:25
know, what's the coolest Japanese workwear?
14:27
What are the most beautiful indigo dyed aprons and, you
14:32
know, hand stitched, you know, shirts and lovely.
14:37
Yeah, it's a really lovely kind of design task.
14:39
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's add on to probably
14:43
one of my favorite planets was Gorman because it's quite
14:49
fashion focused. I feel like it's a costume
14:51
designer's paradise, and I thought of you through every one
14:54
of these sequences because, you know, you being costume
14:57
designer, I study fashion and costume, so this planet was just
15:01
right for us to have a conversation about it.
15:03
Because it's a plant known for producing its beautiful fabrics
15:06
and Andor is disguised as variance guy, who's a fashion
15:10
designer. Honestly, when I saw him, I
15:12
thought of Karl Lagerfeld, which was making me laugh so much.
15:16
It's so perfect and great, but it works.
15:20
Yeah, I mean, what we wanted to do with this character is like,
15:23
again, the complete polar opposite to what you associate
15:26
with with Castian's clothing. We wanted something that's very
15:29
dramatic and it's sort of very dark colours with white
15:33
highlights, something that isn't very tailored and urbane and
15:37
sophisticated and to really lean into that and have fun with it.
15:42
So yeah, we looked at, we did actually look at have people
15:45
like Kyle Algerfield, which have have these kind of iconic
15:48
fashion designer vibes to it, but we were thinking of a more
15:52
sort of futuristic off planet version of that.
15:55
And so myself and our incredible tailor in our workroom, Rob
16:01
Sutherland, we created this layers of beautifully tailored,
16:05
sharp, dramatic suiting for him, all topped up by a very flowing
16:10
Cape so that when he walked to the streets of Gorman, he had
16:12
this wonderful flamboyant silhouette.
16:15
And it was something that Diego really, he was looking forward
16:19
to it, I think from the day he read it in the script.
16:21
And we had fun creating this character for him, that he could
16:25
really have some fun finding a special characterization for
16:30
this guy. You know, down to all of the
16:32
accessories, the rings, the, the tie pins, of course, the visor
16:38
to give him this sort of interesting sense of intrigue
16:42
and self-confidence for making this trip onto Gorman.
16:48
Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like Diego could wear this to the Met
16:51
Gala in real life and it would be 100% believable.
16:54
And I love it for that. And, you know, with the
16:59
expectation of Gorman being a little fashion focus, what were
17:02
some of the references you were looking at at the at the
17:04
creation of the population? Because, you know, everyone
17:07
there kind of has a similar aesthetic.
17:10
And Cyril settles into community here and you really got to see
17:13
him kind of pick up some of that Gorman flair.
17:16
I'm obsessed of the tie clip that he has.
17:19
Every time I saw him on screen, I just wanted to pause it and
17:22
just look at that tie clip. So talk to me about just the
17:24
population of Gorman. Yeah, Gorman's an interesting
17:28
planet because it's very, it's a very proud, cultured society.
17:32
You know, they have a tradition of fine textiles and it's a it's
17:36
a site of this sort of very extreme human rights violation
17:41
by the Empire. The Empire comes in and stamps
17:43
out this whole culture. So storytelling wise, we needed
17:47
it to be something that felt intensely, you know, noble
17:52
human. The idea of it being squashed
17:56
and, and destroyed is a complete horrific 1.
17:59
And so we really kind of, we looked into mid century Europe
18:02
and centres like Milan and Paris that have this incredible
18:06
traditions and beautiful way of dressing.
18:09
You know, it's quite a conservative traditional way of
18:11
dressing, but it is, it's something that's done very
18:14
carefully. We've had a very, you know,
18:16
special palette for them of like lots of neutral tones and
18:20
elegant navies and whites and greens and, and beautiful
18:27
fabrics, of course, chosen, You know, it's it's not necessarily
18:30
a flamboyant, flashy planet, but it's very considered and noble
18:36
and refined. And so I think Cyril gets to
18:40
sort of be influenced by this new world that he's found
18:43
himself in. And he, you know, in season 1,
18:46
we established that he kind of is quite self aware about his
18:49
appearance. And so we like the idea that he
18:51
would be influenced by it. We see his look changing from
18:54
sort of, you know, imperial bureaucrat to someone who is
18:58
exploring, you know, the expressive qualities of clothing
19:02
and enjoying fine fabrics. We see him, he buys himself a
19:06
Gorman trench coat. He wears A beret like the local
19:11
people. He has a very sharply tailored
19:16
dark brown woolen overcoat and with a velvet scarf.
19:20
So he's really kind of enjoying leaning into this beautiful
19:25
fabrics and enjoying some of the highly aesthetic pleasures of
19:30
life which are then tragically crushed by the by the empire.
19:35
Are you ready to talk about Chandrilla?
19:37
Because that that could be its own podcast, honestly, if we
19:39
really wanted to. So.
19:44
The home planet of Monmouth. But I mean, even if I saw that
19:47
on a script of like, OK, well, this is going to be quite a huge
19:51
couple episodes here. Similar to Gorman, can you talk
19:55
about diving into the culture of this planet, which is just so
19:59
very ornate and very detailed, but you can also sense that
20:01
there's. A, a sense of tradition and a
20:05
lot of their clothing as well. And you especially see that in
20:07
the wedding, of course. But there's a a similarity in a
20:11
way that the people Chandril address, I feel is just very
20:16
structured in tradition here on this planet.
20:19
Absolutely. You you really hit the nail on
20:21
the head there. We, we wanted the sense of a
20:23
like an ancient culture that had a very, it was quite a
20:28
controlled culture, you know, something that was by traditions
20:32
and rituals, something extremely beautiful and precious, but
20:35
somewhat, you know, potentially restrictive.
20:39
And we wanted to do that because, you know, we wanted to
20:41
create a home world where Mothma would be quite stifled as her
20:47
inner conflicts are just really rising and become just, they
20:51
start to overwhelm her. She would more and more find the
20:54
clothing and the culture really restrictive and something that
20:59
she needed to break away from until fine.
21:02
In the the final scene in Chandrilla, the wedding scene
21:05
where she's at the wedding and she kind of loses herself to try
21:11
and forget all all of her troubles and sort of get swept
21:15
up into this sort of intoxicating dance.
21:17
So we wanted to that that the scene of the dance kind of
21:22
defined a lot of the the look of the clothing because I knew I
21:25
wanted something that would move really beautifully but and
21:29
create great shapes and sense sort of almost a sense of
21:31
beautiful chaos as this sort of almost rave like dance takes
21:36
place on Shakila. And so the colours that I chose,
21:40
the fabrics, the pleating, everything had to move and
21:44
create really wonderful shapes for the camera.
21:47
So it was, yeah, we looked a lot at Japan, we looked a lot at
21:51
Korea, but also at lots of interesting, you know, fashion
21:56
designers that are working at the moment.
21:58
And I developed a whole lot of incredible different.
22:02
We found a place in the UK that did incredible pleating,
22:06
different types of pleating that had these wonderful textures.
22:09
We had all of our fabric scouts go out and find the most
22:12
sumptuous, beautiful fabrics available.
22:15
So it was, it was, yeah, an incredible, incredibly joyful,
22:21
you know, creative experience designing the Chandrill and
22:24
costumes. We had about 500 extras to
22:27
create all of their costumes from scratch, too.
22:29
So that was a huge undertaking in its own.
22:32
We had a whole section of the workroom that was just
22:34
continually creating different shapes and different looks for
22:39
all of these different wedding party guests.
22:44
So yeah, it was. It was heaven.
22:47
Yeah, it it it really is stunning.
22:49
And you know, like we mentioned, we're in Chandrilla for a
22:52
wedding, the marriage of Mon's daughter Lita.
22:55
And I read that during the three day wedding event alone, Mon
22:59
goes through six different costume changes.
23:04
That is that's quite the feat. So take us back to designers
23:08
lineup for Mon, who I have to say, and I think it says to you
23:11
the first time we talked, she really is like the costume
23:14
designer's dream because she just as she looks incredible in
23:17
everything and every single one of these costumes, you see
23:20
something new and exciting. I can't even tell you which
23:22
one's my favorite. They're all so stunning.
23:25
Thank you, Spencer. I have to say also collaborating
23:28
with Genevieve O'Reilly has just been career highlights.
23:31
She's an incredibly intelligent and intuitive person and
23:36
fittings with her were were lengthy and detailed and we
23:40
really thought about how the fabrics moved and how they made
23:44
her feel the sense of constriction and
23:46
self-expression. So that was an incredible
23:50
process to go through. But yeah, that's the first 3
23:53
episodes. She has about 6 different
23:54
costumes. We see her when all of the
23:57
guests are arriving on the planet.
23:59
So it's sort of kind of like her Hostess kind of look for her
24:03
when she's all of the when she's welcoming everyone.
24:07
Then later that night there's a cocktail party and so she has a
24:12
reception gown, the blue reception gown with depleted
24:17
shoulder capes. Then we're the next morning we
24:21
see her at breakfast arguing with her husband.
24:23
So she has an elegant dressing gown for that.
24:28
Then as you do and a Chandrillian wedding, you head
24:30
up on your ritual hike up the mountain to offer your, you
24:35
know, blessings to, to the gods of Chandrilla.
24:38
And so that was a wonderful scene, one of my favourites
24:40
actually, when you see all of these interesting exterior
24:44
costumes of the the family heading up the mountain.
24:49
And that's an interesting different look for, for Mon
24:53
Mothma. Then what's next?
24:55
We have a, the night before we have a, the wedding, we have a,
24:59
a dinner for sort of important guests and family, which is
25:04
another formal gown. That's the sort of Grecian
25:07
draped sort of pinkish dress. Love that one.
25:12
And then we have the the the wedding itself, which is the
25:15
sort of goldfish orangey golden pleated dress with the veil that
25:22
she ends up sort of swirling and, and dancing in for the the
25:26
final scene in episode 3. So yeah, that's quite a a
25:29
costume lineup. 66 gallons. Each one have to be more
25:32
beautiful than the last. When when it's all done I'm
25:36
going to need like a coffee book.
25:38
That's just Mon Mothma's costumes from Andores season 1
25:41
and 2, please. OK, hopefully we can film.
25:44
Let's see what we can do. Yeah, well, let's switch gears
25:50
and talk about The Imperials for a little bit.
25:51
I have to say I'm actually a big Deidre fan because she just has
25:55
such an attitude, and I find that very relatable.
25:57
She's feeling quite cranky all the time.
26:00
And what was exciting about this season, though, is we got to see
26:03
her outside of work and sort of, you know, take a breather for a
26:06
minute. But even when she's outside of
26:08
work, I still feel like she's very structured and buttoned up.
26:12
She's one of those people where I can't imagine her ever laying
26:14
down and actually relaxing. I feel like that shows a lot
26:17
through her costume. Of course she looks elegant and
26:20
beautiful, but you could tell that she's almost like she has A
26:23
at home uniform too. Definitely.
26:26
I mean, I think this is the first time in Star Wars that we
26:28
get to see an imperial officer in a domestic environment, you
26:32
know, awake. And so that was when, as soon as
26:34
I read that, it kind of blew my mind about, Oh my gosh, what
26:37
does, what does that even look like?
26:39
It was quite jarring. I was very excited for that
26:41
actually. But we really thought that, you
26:44
know, Deb Debra's worldview is black and white, whether she's
26:48
at home or whether she's, you know, at work.
26:50
So we thought she would bring the same sense of position and
26:55
control and discipline to her home looks, even that she would
27:00
have at work in her uniform. So we looked at create I I
27:05
created some looks for her that were very, you know, we kind of
27:08
like this razor sharp tailored vibe for her that everything had
27:12
to be as perfect as possible. She has this quite obsessive
27:16
quality to her. And so the actress Denise,
27:20
Denise Scuff was so excited and thrilled to be out of her
27:24
uniform for a couple of scenes. And so we spent a lot of time
27:28
creating very specific looks for her that had very thought out
27:33
geometric detailing. There was some sort of metallic
27:36
accents and things that gave her this kind of edge to her, but
27:41
all rendered in sort of blacks and whites, very precise piped
27:45
details and stitching. So yeah, we, we, we really
27:49
enjoyed getting to to the bottom of, of domestic Dedra.
27:55
Right. It it it felt like seeing like,
27:57
I don't know, like the Easter Bunny or something like you
27:59
don't see that very often. It was very exciting and just
28:02
interesting from a costume design point of view to really
28:05
kind of define what that might look like for some of these
28:07
people were the empires their entire life and Dedra is
28:10
definitely one of those people. I.
28:13
Think she takes her work home with her, you know as.
28:17
I would say so one. Of my favorite moments of the
28:20
scenes of her at home is when her potential possible mother,
28:25
future mother-in-law arrives, Edie and you have everything
28:29
that Dedra is not kind of explodes into a very controlled
28:33
environment. And Edie comes in and this
28:37
insane sort of tangerine kaftan sort of muumuu dress that is
28:42
like everything that Dedra hates is probably her least favorite
28:45
colour. It's sort of got these kind of
28:47
weird detailing on it. And I kind of just, you could
28:51
almost feel her, you know, brush of distaste as this creature
28:55
walks into her home environment. So that was that was fun to play
28:58
with. Right, even in a Galaxy far, far
29:01
away, we're still fighting with our in laws potentially and gain
29:04
on our nerves. Absolutely.
29:09
Well, OK, I was very excited to see the main antagonist of Rogue
29:13
One, a story, a Star Wars story, Orson Chronic reappear, which
29:16
it's been a long while since we've seen him as well.
29:19
And when you see Chronic, that means trouble is definitely
29:21
ahead. And trouble he was.
29:24
Well, Chronic is a pretty bad guy, I have to say.
29:27
I've always kind of loved him in his costume, especially like
29:31
that Cape look. He wears it quite elegantly,
29:34
even though he's very serious. Did you get to reinterpret this
29:38
costume? Because like I said, it's been
29:40
almost a decade since we've seen Chronic on screen, aside from
29:44
some animated series. So how?
29:46
How did the I'm sure you didn't just have this costume in a box
29:49
ready to go for you. Oh I I wish Spencer would be.
29:53
That would have been so lovely. The costume actually didn't
29:55
exist in the archive and so we we kind of wanted to make it our
30:00
own, you know, anyway. And so you're right, we haven't
30:04
seen him on screen. So we thought we had to really
30:06
refer to the iconic look that had been established for him
30:11
sort of straight away. So we got the and we knew who he
30:13
was and it is it he works, Ben works the costume so well and
30:17
sort of his, the way that he walks and uses the cake is so
30:21
intimidating and extraordinary. But then so we had to make it
30:25
from scratch. But something that was even more
30:29
fun for me was to there's a scene where he goes to a party
30:33
at sort of a political party at on Coruscant.
30:38
And so I create like an evening dress uniform for him.
30:42
So I did another version of this costume in completely different
30:46
fabrics with different detailing.
30:48
So we, we made the Cape in this beautiful lustrous satiny
30:52
material and we added all sorts of detailing, little collar pips
30:56
and a beautiful cross strap going across his chest with
31:00
braid basically like your sort of typical, you know, military
31:03
evening dress uniform, but the sharp version of that.
31:07
So he had his like straight trousers, not the joppers
31:11
evening shoes. But yeah, there was something
31:13
just a little bit glinty and beautiful about this this
31:17
evening version of his uniform. So I hope you get some good
31:21
shots of that to show people because it's something that I'm,
31:23
I had a lot, a lot of enjoyment creating for him.
31:27
Yeah, no, I really appreciate that too, because it is very
31:29
much like in our real world when we see, you know, members of the
31:32
military at evening events where they, you know, they're almost
31:34
wearing like a dressier version of their uniform too, as like a
31:37
sign of like, very put together. And as one I really like doing
31:41
on on Star Wars 2 is really leaning into the uniforms.
31:45
I mean, it's such a fact. Well, just in itself, the world
31:47
of the ISB and all the different various uniforms, Tony makes us
31:52
go to all sorts of interesting corners of the Imperial
31:55
universe, different types of uniforms.
31:57
We had urban combat ISP, we went to a hospital, we had rules of
32:04
the ISP that we explored. And so even in the uniforms,
32:08
there's this wonderful opportunity to be very creative,
32:12
refer back to sort of real world, what we know of of
32:15
uniforms on on planet Earth that sort of extrapolate and to make
32:19
it something kind of compelling and interesting in the in the
32:22
Star Wars universe. Right.
32:24
It's, I mean, it's, it's a huge, huge accomplishment to, to like
32:29
expand on the universe that's been around since, you know, the
32:31
1970s as well, where you would think that you would know every
32:35
hat, every trick in this hat, but just continues to expand and
32:39
get to learn more about, about all these different cultures
32:42
and, and as well as like the empire as well, where you would
32:45
think it's just uniforms, but it continues to grow.
32:48
And I think that's one reason why we all love this show so
32:52
much. Another character who really got
32:55
to play around with his clothes would, of course, be Lutheran
32:57
Rell, who I imagine is quite a challenge, but as someone who
33:01
is, you know, constantly kind of trying to blend into society.
33:04
He's always looking the part in the gallery.
33:07
But then when he steps out of his gallery, he's a man on the
33:10
mission. So he kind of he is the master
33:13
of this guy's. He's the one that taught and or
33:15
really this trick. So could you talk about finding
33:17
that balance in the Lutheran's costumes?
33:20
Yeah, something I really enjoy doing this these two different
33:23
versions of Lutheran, One who was worked at the gallery, he
33:26
was kind of posing as an antiques expert and that we
33:29
really wanted to get across the idea of someone warm, someone
33:33
trustworthy, someone harmless, because he's essentially
33:36
gathering Intel. So he wanted people to feel
33:39
relaxed, comfortable, ready to share all of their secrets with.
33:44
And so that's what we were going with with this costumes of this
33:47
gallery owner, someone that is had impeccable style, someone
33:51
that you would absolutely trust to the end of your your days.
33:55
And so he has these beautiful outfits that are layered out of
34:00
beautiful tailored elements, waist coats and sort of
34:03
overcoats and drapey trousers in different dual tones, rich
34:07
accessories and things. So that was that was one side of
34:12
him. But then what we call natural
34:14
Lutheran is the spymaster. It's the guy that is in the dark
34:18
mysterious cloak that I designed for him on the streets of Chorus
34:22
on someone that sort of blends in and doesn't really draw focus
34:26
to to themselves. And then we also see him, you
34:30
know, piloting the Fonder Fonder hall craft.
34:33
And that's slightly and what I wanted to go with, but that look
34:36
is something that sort of spoke of a early Rebel alliance look.
34:39
It's slightly military looking, but it also has interesting sort
34:43
of humanistic detailing and textures and things that sort
34:47
of, they're not a uniform like the Imperial uniforms.
34:51
They're much more. Yeah, they have this kind of
34:54
wonderful, personal, interesting, expressive quality
34:58
to it. So that's what I was going with,
35:00
with the two different sides of of Lutheran rail.
35:04
And you know, as you kind of mentioned too, about how we're
35:06
kind of able to dig deeper into a lot of these different
35:09
cultures like the Empire, I feel like we also got to spend a lot
35:11
of time in the Senate, which I really appreciate it because
35:14
it's this great big, grand thing.
35:16
But historically, in the past, our time in there has always
35:19
been quite quick. So this time we really got to
35:22
know a lot of the senator senators and see the inner
35:24
workings. So can you talk about this
35:26
challenge and just the can we also just shout out the prowess
35:30
of your crew that was necessary to make some of these large
35:33
scale scenes happen because there was something happening in
35:35
every corner of your eye when we saw the Senate.
35:38
You could spend so much time there.
35:40
So tell me about the Senate and your crew.
35:42
Yeah, I agreed. Shout out and kudos to my, my
35:45
crew because the challenge with the Senate was to show the whole
35:49
spectrum of the Senate life. You know, not did we have
35:52
senators that were from all different corners of the Galaxy,
35:56
different cultures represented by their clothing.
35:59
We also had people that worked at the Senate like the sort of
36:01
more bureaucrat look, the journalist that came to report
36:06
on the senators. We had the Senate security.
36:09
We had this kind of whole world and they all needed very, very
36:12
specific different costumes. And so me, myself and my team,
36:17
you know, created stock costumes for, I think, about 500 extras
36:21
that we saw at the Senate of all of these different types of
36:25
levels. So that means different
36:27
silhouettes, different fabrics, different color palettes for
36:30
different planets, for different types of workers.
36:34
It was really a mammoth, mammoth effort to get that all together
36:39
to create very specific stock from the fabrics, from the cut,
36:43
from the makers to the people that were distressing to the
36:46
people that were looking after the actors, dressing them every
36:50
morning during the line up so I could check them all out and
36:53
make sure they looked exactly the way they needed to look.
36:56
It was lots of 5:00 starts, you know, at Pinewood Studio.
37:01
We also shot a lot of the exteriors at in Valencia in
37:04
Spain. So that was working with a whole
37:06
different team there and getting them on board and getting them
37:10
engaged in presenting this world in a way that would be as
37:14
compelling and as exciting as we could make it.
37:18
Yeah, it's beautiful. I actually am looking forward to
37:21
gain to rewatch and just gain to spend some more time in the
37:24
Senate and pausing and looking at some of the costumes.
37:27
So much fun. Unfortunately for Mon Motha, at
37:30
the end of her Senate crew, that was not very fun.
37:34
She gets, she leaves and takes her place as a rebel leader at
37:38
Yavin. And it's quite the
37:40
transformation for Mon Motha. But then again, at the same
37:43
time, we know that she's slowly transitioning into this
37:46
character that's been around since the 1980s essentially.
37:50
So we knew that that silhouette was sort of coming, and you
37:53
really got to kind of leave the bread crumbs to show how that's
37:57
sort of happening. So tell me about the ending this
38:01
series with Mon Mothma and that Yavin look.
38:04
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. There's something about what we
38:06
wanted to get create with the Yavin look is something that was
38:08
very like, possibly like stripping it right back behind
38:12
all of the incredible gowns and the richness and the resources
38:16
of Chandriller and Kharasan, who is the real Mon Mothma?
38:20
And, you know, she's a very principled, passionate, you
38:24
know, believer in the Rebel Alliance.
38:26
And so I think actually ending on that, where things are
38:29
stripped back, they're much more, they're much more real and
38:35
authentic and grounded. I think that was a really
38:37
interesting place for the character to sort of finish her
38:40
her costume journey. We did want to sort of refer to
38:43
her look in Rogue One with this sort of Cape with the draped
38:47
chain. First see her in her first scene
38:50
in Yavin. And then as the episode finishes
38:55
and we see the final Mon Mothma, even the Cape, the sort of
39:00
regalia comes off and you just see her as another human being
39:05
at the camp, having breakfast with her cousin with with the
39:10
people of Yavin and joining, rolling her sleeves up and
39:13
becoming a really dedicated campaigner for the Rebel
39:16
Alliance. So I thought visually it was a
39:18
really interesting costume journey to make with her.
39:22
Yeah. And then finally, the moment we
39:24
are all kind of waiting for it was how does Cassian Andor
39:27
become the Andor that we saw in Rogue One all this time ago?
39:32
And it was quite exciting. Honestly, I didn't even realize
39:35
it was happening until I really like, I kind of took a second.
39:38
I was like, wait a minute, like this is him.
39:40
This is who we've been looking forward to see.
39:42
You brought this whole thing full circle.
39:44
So just tell me, what was that moment like when he saw him
39:47
standing on a tarmac? Just knowing that the
39:49
culmination of of the what five years of hard work have come to
39:53
this moment where we see casting and or become the and or that
39:57
we've been waiting for for a while.
40:00
Yeah, I mean, it was very emotional, really.
40:02
I think everyone just kind of when they realized what was
40:05
going on, what this costume was, everyone just kind of stopped
40:08
what they were doing and and sort of fell silent and, you
40:12
know, stared. It was very it was really one of
40:15
those iconic, iconic moments. And so it's a costume that that
40:20
Diego looks so great in. So it's the full hero assured
40:25
look. Of course, it wasn't as easy as
40:27
just getting it out of the archive.
40:28
This costume shouldn't exist anymore in the archive.
40:31
So we had to create our kind of own interpretation of the
40:35
costume that we see in Rogue One.
40:37
So we tweaked, we made it sort of suitable, a little bit more
40:41
suitable to our story and our environment with that, but also
40:45
sort of ticking the boxes of all of the details from the original
40:48
costumes. So yeah, it was a, it was one of
40:52
those stop and take stock kind of moments seeing, seeing Diego
40:58
stride across the the tarmac in this costume.
41:01
Right. It's I just can't even imagine.
41:03
It's just such a big period on, like the greatest sentence to
41:06
see him there. And that really brings us to the
41:09
end of time about Andor, which I can't even believe.
41:12
So, Michael, this was such a great series and I really
41:15
enjoyed it, and you and your team did such an incredible job.
41:18
Now that the whole thing is out both seasons, what do you hope
41:22
audiences take away from their experience of watching Season 2
41:26
and, you know, the entire series?
41:28
What do you hope the audiences take away from seeing it all?
41:32
That's a good question. I think for me, I would love
41:35
them to feel that there's been a lot of intelligent and expansive
41:40
thinking about world building and and storytelling through
41:43
costumes. I mean, what costume designers
41:46
do can contribute so much to the story.
41:49
And I feel like everyday I was trying to think about how the
41:53
look of these costumes could move the story forward, how they
41:56
could illuminate the characters and show audience different
42:00
different different sides to their characters.
42:02
All of these costumes were made from scratch.
42:05
You know, there was over 200 cast members.
42:08
A lot of them had many costumes. There were thousands of extras.
42:12
All of those costumes were made from scratch from my incredible
42:16
team. I mean, I don't know if I'll
42:17
ever have a costume team like this.
42:20
The the, the conglomerate of all of these different skills from
42:24
fabric makers, fabric saucers, tailors, workroom accessory
42:29
makers, makers, the people that looked after the actors so
42:34
beautifully on set and made them feel comfortable.
42:37
That was really just a once in a, in a career opportunity to
42:41
have that that those resources and that incredible, you know,
42:45
tide of humanity behind you. So as a massive effort and I
42:49
really hope that the, you know, the, the beauty and complexity
42:54
of humanity as expressed by all of these huge cast of characters
42:58
and it's full spectrum, you know, can be seen by audience in
43:02
a in a compassionate way. Costume designer Michael
43:05
Wilkinson, thank you so much for talk with me.
43:06
I we've been doing this now for a couple years now talking about
43:09
Andor. And I'm sad it's over, but I'm
43:11
excited to see what's next and I hope that we could talk some
43:14
more when the next thing comes along.
43:16
So thank you so much for doing this.
43:18
Thank you, Spencer, it's always a pleasure to talk with you.
43:20
Thanks for your time.