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Cuuueeto! · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome to Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: On this podcast, we deep dive into a different topic every week regarding some kind of event or moment in Pittsburgh sports lore.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we discuss it and we remember some of the good times, some of the bad times as two lifelong Pittsburgh sports fans.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This episode, we're going to go back to the year 2013 and talk about uh a very uh interesting season for the Pittsburgh Pirates and a pitcher named Johnny Quato and a knight that he will probably like to forget.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Quato.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: You had to get one in, right?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: So so um baseball in Pittsburgh, wow.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's there there have been five World Series, but at as of 2013, the Pirates were in the midst of a uh 20-year losing streak going into 2013.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: So the Pirate fans had to endure lots of losing and a lot of ineptitude, which on a little pack podcast will probably do a whole podcast on just that 20 years of horrible sports baseball.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they are historically one of the worst professional sports franchise up there with people like the Bengals, the Clippers, and the Philadelphia Phillies, which is not good company.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was a North American sports record, I believe.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: For the for the major sports.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: No one had ever had 20 losing seasons in a row.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, it wasn't just 20 losing seasons.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was 20 losing seasons fraught with just horrific decisions and terrible.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then they changed owners in the middle, I think.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: McClatchy left and they got nutting.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it didn't seem to make a bit of difference.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: They would change general managers and regular, you know, baseball managers.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so finally, in 2007, the uh pirates hire a guy named Neil Huntington, and he's from the Cleveland Indians.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so Neil Huntington's kind of like one of these um more like um what was coming into vogue in baseball then was the analytics, you know.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And Billy Bean, a guy in Oakland, had figured out that nobody in baseball was paying money for guys that walked.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's the on-base percentage, the sexy number that everybody likes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: All that does is your batting average if you included walks.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, nobody in baseball cared about walks.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: So Billy Bean figured out if you could go get a guy that walked a lot, you would only need one guy that maybe hit a single and double, you could still score runs.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that's how Oakland did.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: So the Pirates hire this guy and he's kind of looking for loopholes like that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: The small market teams, the problem in baseball, it's it's still a problem, is the Yankees and the Red Sox and the Rangers have all these big regional TV contracts that they don't negotiate.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like football, it's all in one pot and it's a spends to each team.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: But uh the Yankees keep all what I think it's a billion dollar TV contract for themselves.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that means they have an extra billion dollars to spend on salary than the Pirates could ever have.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of these small market teams just can't sign the free agents the way that the Yankees can.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: So what the Pirates did and the way the the baseball drafts is it's not like football where you're drafting guys have been three years in playing more like semi-pro ball, like which is really college, for three years.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: You're drafting 18-year-olds.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: You're drafting people right out of high school, and that's a really not significant way.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's very that a lot of those guys don't work out.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what the Pirates figured out is if you paid, they have they had a slot.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: They slot, they it's like a rookie pay scale.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they figured if you paid overpaid some of these guys early on that you could keep them longer and postpone their free agency and therefore you kind of cheat the system.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And plus it was the added benefit was was now the Yankees had to pay all that extra money on the back end when they wanted to sign up a free agent, which would go into the luxury tax and come back to you.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a great little loophole for the small market teams to kind of stick it to the big market teams.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the the players union didn't like it because I don't think they thought their players were getting as much as they should up front.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, anywho, that's in 2008 the Pirates start to implement this strategy and they start to sign players such as Andrew McCutcheon.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: They actually they assigned him the year before, Neil Walker and Pedro Alvarez, and they draft uh some guy named Garrett Cole, we all might have heard of.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: And he's a he's a rookie and he's a pitcher.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Now, and finally, in three years later in 2011, uh they hire Clint Hurdle as manager, and he's kind of the last piece to this puzzle of core for the Pirates.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Hurdle, I think, had managed Colorado to a World Series.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, and he had some success.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and that was just another small market team.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2011, 2012, I remember going to games and they I always call them the little league lineup because they literally had McCutcheon and Walker and you know seven other guys that couldn't hit.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So the whole point, you would just get one guy that would walk at the lead off, and then try and get Walker and McCutcheon as many bats as you could.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody else walk, we'll you know, try and get them.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: So that was kind of their lineup there for those two years.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: And in those two years, they had success, especially early in the season, and they they were either in first place or a game back, but then late in the season, both years, they fell apart.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: One time was in a game in Atlanta that went 16 innings, they kind of got probably the one of the main reasons that brought instant replay to baseball was Jerry Mills called a guy safe when he was clearly out.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Just because I think Jerry Mills was 16 innings and he was going home.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's at I'm going home.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, not to be a homer, but that that's probably the worst call I've ever seen in a sporting event.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was ugly, yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then the year later they they fell apart and lost the whole, but they they still had continued the losing season.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: They'd done so badly in August and September, they'd still continued their your losing streak.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: So we come forward to 2013.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, well, hang on.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Going back to 2012, like that that year specifically, they were 16 games over 500, 16 over 500 in the U.S.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they still fell apart.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: In August.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was it's actually the greatest collapse in the history of Major League Baseball.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: What they fell to even bigger than the Phillies in the 60s.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's the greatest collapse in the history of Major League Baseball, uh, them being 16 games over 500 in August and finishing the season under 500.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, Pennsylvania professional baseball really sucks.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Between us and the Phillies, it's because the Phillies blew like something like with a five-game lead with four to play or something under Gene Ma.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not a good history for for either of those franchises.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But that was that was sort of unbelievable because it seemed like, you know, there there was years during those 20 years.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: During that 20 years, but they were done in June or July.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: The Time Steeler training camp rolled around the end of July was like, okay, moving on.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Almost almost always.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: There were a few years where they'd get hot in like June and people get the false sense of hope.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that year where they were 16 games over in August, you're like, okay, this is the end of the streak.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, don't know if we're gonna make the postseason, but this is definitely the end of the losing seasons.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And for them to finish under 500, you just at that point you thought, okay, this is never gonna happen.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is good, this streak is gonna go on for 40 years, 50 years.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna we're this is gonna be like our grandkids, and being like, yeah, this started back when I was a a young boy.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it it's a it it's amazing that those last two years, they probably really should have broken the streak in 2011 rather than 2012.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, I don't know if it was just bad luck or maybe, you know, it a lot of people blame Clint Hurdle for that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, both of those seasons were collapses, like you said.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, regardless of however many games over.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: But both of those seasons, they both of those seasons were good seasons until we got to August.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you're right, they couldn't finish, and that was certainly a a concern going into that 2013 season.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, and now in the offseason they sign uh catcher and free agent Russell Martin, which is kind of out of character for them because they actually spent some money.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: And they signed a game that a guy, a pitcher named Francisco Lariano, who I very much like is a very good, good player.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but Larriano had a weird injury.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: He was like playing with his kids and he broke his non-pitching arm in the offseason.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And the pirates actually made him go get like another physical and he lost$11 million because of that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I don't know if that's just Larriano's story, if he really broke it some other way, because like you always hear like these weird bases, like Sammy Sosa said he one time hurt his back while eating a chip.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not really true.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: They probably were doing something else that they shouldn't have been.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that was kind of like a weird thing.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like people weren't too sure about Larriano because of that whole incident.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then later in the season, this is later, they they've trade, they trade for a rental player, which actually too, they had Justin Murneau too, but he didn't do much.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: But they had the guy Marlon Bird, who who ended up being like a really key player in this game.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: So like I said, finally, after being in the thick of it for the third season in a row, they ended their streak on September 9th against the Texas Rangers.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they had actually lost three or four games going into that to finally break it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like on a relay at home plate, like it was a close game.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And but they they finally in the the curse is finally kind of over.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like, okay, they're gonna have a winning season or a non-losing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Was that the winning or the non-losing?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's when they got to 82.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: When they got to 82.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I thought when that happened, I just thought I I can't believe I'm actually live to see this.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like and and and and like you said, they got to a point where like they they were one game away.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like they would have to play.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then they'd lost like three or four in a row.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: They might have lose like their last 25 games or something ridiculous for it not to happen.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I really thought it was a possibility.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this could happen because it is such a curse.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and like those baseball curses, you do, you know, Babe Ruth and the Billy Goat and all that.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those things sometimes have have done weird things in baseball.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought I I just couldn't believe we actually saw that streak end.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I I was flabbergasted.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not only did the streak end, but they're also uh fighting for a playoff spot.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: And what had happened they now they're in this division.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: It used to be the old, there were only two divisions.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or well, back in the old days there was just one.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: There were three at this point.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there was three way back when it was just like that.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: In the sixties, it was just one, I think.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: You would win the pennant and go to the World City.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: So in this, and then in the nineties they went to kind of two.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then now they have three.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the Central was always small market teams.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Were the Astros well the C except for the Cubs.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: But were the Astros in the division at this point, or had they been moved to the United States.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think they were in the West, weren't they?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: They were in the Central with the Pirates, but then at one point they moved them to the American League.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't remember if this was I mean this Astros stunk back then, so it didn't really matter.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I just small market teams, like for the longest.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like St.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Louis always kind of won the division because St.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Louis was the only team that's competent.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And they have a pretty decent fan base.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: But Chicago's like always a total disaster.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like and there's a lot of reasons.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of people say that's because they play in Wrigley and they don't play enough night games.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like you ever heard that one?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, because they play so many day games because they don't like to turn the lights on that that hurts the Cubs somehow.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't I I mean, just the Cubs are almost as pathetic as the Pirates.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Although the Phillies might be more pathetic.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: But and then uh who else is in that division?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Cincinnati was always kind of good.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about later.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: But it was but in that season, for some normally if you went 500 in our division, you would make the playoffs.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well that year, like all three of those teams were really good.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were all had winning records and all ended up making the playoffs.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So St.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Louis St.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Louis won the division and then Pittsburgh Cincinnati.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Pittsburgh and Cincinnati ended up playing for like second place.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a there was a series in Cincinnati at the end of that, a three-game series, where the Pirates had to win that series to get a home game against the Reds.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And they won.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: They slap they swept the wet the Reds away.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Stumbling over my words, swept the Reds, and that's what sets up now the the wild card game at PNC Park for it's a one game.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now the baseball, I guess, the small market teams that complained enough, you know, just not being able especially team like Toronto where you're never gonna compete with the Red Sox and Yankees.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: So they I think they they kind of threw the small market teams a bone there and they went added an extra round of playoffs.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And plus TV likes it.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well well yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So so when they expanded to the three divisions in the nineties, it was so like you said, back back when the back in the Kim Leland era when the that was two divisions, it was East and West, and those two teams would play in the NLCS.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you would go to the World Series.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you could have like there were teams like if you look back in the 60s, there are teams that won like in almost a hundred games and were like, yep, good season.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go next year, boys.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think the the N the league championship series started, I want to say, in like the late 60s, early 70s.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the 90s, it was that format stayed until about the mid-90s, where they went to the three divisions with one wild card.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it was your three division champions and one wild card, so four teams playing in a division series.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was a five-game division series, and the winner of those two series would meet in the LCS.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but like you said, by this point, like you said, people were complaining like, well, only one wildcard team, that's not enough.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: We need a second wild card team, uh, but baseball also didn't want to add another series.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you if you have five playoff teams, you that's an uneven number.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can't have you can't have a tournament that way.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they they opted for this one-game playoff.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost unfortunate for the Pirates because had this scenario happened a few years earlier, Cincinnati was the second wildcard team.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cincinnati wouldn't have even been in the mix.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the Pirates would have gone straight into the division series of the city.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think too, it's like I said, I think they threw him a bone because the baseball is just like not gonna ever have revenue sharing.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean I think this is just kind of their way of like, okay, you don't have to be, you know, as good to always make the playoffs.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: You you know, you can have a little bit of a lesser record.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was for the fans too, because uh it's hard to because baseball's such a long season.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned like football training camp.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you you baseball's such a long season, you have so many teams out of it by August.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you have a second wild card, now if you're floating around that 500 area, you're actually still in it until the end of September.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're one of those teams and one of those fan bases, you're still coming to the games, you're still tuning in.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when you had one wild card, there were years, like you said, especially like Red Sox Yankees when those two teams were battling it out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Toronto and Baltimore, it didn't even matter.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or or even take the second place team in the other divisions, like uh like uh Cleveland, Minnesota, whatever.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, i if if the Yankees were the best team in the league and the Red Sox were the second best team, then the Red Sox had that wild card locked up and then and then everybody else that was even remotely close, it didn't matter.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was also for that reason.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so but but like you said, it creates this weird kind of one-game and and for baseball, man, you play 162 games.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it comes down to one game.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a one-game playoff.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really unique.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a scenario that it created that season.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the Pirates get to host it against the case.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's kind of weird because baseball, everything in baseball is set up like for a series.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like baseball isn't like basketball or even football where it's like winner take all one game.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, college basketball is just one and done in these tournaments.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: But like baseball is always geared to a oh five game, oh, a seven game.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Even back the first World Series was a nine-game World Series.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it's always seems to be they like to add more games.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, they went to 162 games.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the season goes if you if you consider spring training, it goes from February to November now.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a long season.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're you're talking like NASCAR territory here.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's basically that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: So they swept the Reds in Cincinnati to earn their home wild card playoff game.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: So what was happening in Pittsburgh now is these last two years we've collapsed.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's been 20 years, and people are just like, oh my goodness, we get to be excited and proud of the Pirates.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, this is kind of like 2013, so it's after the Steelers have won two Super Bowls, the Penguins have won a Stanley Cup.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: So like everybody's like, you know, yeah, it's about time the Pirates do something besides, you know, it's a nice distraction in May and June until the All-Star break.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot there was so much excitement for that one game.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know that there's ever been that much excitement for one baseball game in this town.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've never seen anything like it besides the Colts playoff game in 2005.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I that's the only thing I can compare.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that wasn't even here.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember people going nuts for that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or the Super Bowls.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But even but even leading up.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that game, what was it, the game five or six?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one of our the the Stanley Cup game where they had a chance to clinch, that's probably maybe as close.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: For in terms of games played in Pittsburgh, yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean people were going insane that night, too.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: That might be comparable when they when they had a chance to clinch to the phone, but when it would have been the only championship in Pittsburgh since Mazarowski.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Since Mazarowski.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it so it might have been and certainly I wasn't alive for the Masorowski game, but in terms of games played in Pittsburgh, baseball specifically, um the the two seventies World Series.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're both won in Baltimore, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're both won in Baltimore.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, in terms of anticipation, I don't know that there was a more anticipated night than that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it came off of those 20 years of losing.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and PNC Park, you know, one of the things that happened during that 20-year losing streak was um the city got strong arm into building new stadiums.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and, you know, we people can certainly debate whether it was the right thing to do and using the the certain tax money that they used, et cetera.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um the one thing that you really can't debate is it it definitely created all kinds of business and and excitement on the north side, on the north shore.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it probably it sa it made the pirates, you know, stay here.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it saved the team.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: For better or worse.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It saved the the baseball team.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody remembers that Sophie Maslov had that idea like ten years earlier.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: She did in every year.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Roberto Klemeni Park.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember everybody laughed at her.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody laughed at her.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Ten years later, you're building the PC park.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you build a football stadium that that that's only for football?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's ridiculous.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly that's what And every other city was doing it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't build a new stadium, the Camden Yards.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Once they once somebody built Camden Yards in Baltimore, that kind of changed the whole thing, like because everybody was in those multi-purpose stadiums and they kind of went to PNC.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: What Three Rivers was just an awful stadium for baseball.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Baseball, yeah, it was pretty bad.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Even football, I remember it was hard to see that end zone.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It wasn't good for football either, but at least it was sort of built a little bit for football.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, baseball, it was just not a baseball stadium.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, everybody was building these kind of old-fashioned baseball parks.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, it started with Baltimore, and then I think PNC Park ushered in a new one because it seemed like a lot of cities copied off of that, that view of the city became iconic.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: And like you see, almost everyone.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: San Francisco did the same thing after PNC Park.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: But every other city seems to do that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: PNC Park at the time was hailed as the the single most beautiful ballpark in Major.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it is.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's a nice place to watch baseball.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's too bad the baseball that's played there things.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the thing.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So so they had this beautiful ballpark.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I, you know, my day job when I'm not podcasting here is I I work over on the North Shore and I've worked over there for the last 21 years.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've so I worked over there when Three River Stadium was still there.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that that was just an area that there was nothing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you go to a game, there was no restaurants, there was no there wasn't a lot of even people like me, offices, people that worked over there.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's vibrant.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's hotels, there's you know, and none of that stuff existed.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you go there on a game day.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, you there's like you said, there's restaurants, there's people eating and stuff.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Even not on a non-game day, people still there.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it it definitely, you know, a lot of times when politicians promise things, they they don't really amount to much.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: This time, I think, you know, it it definitely made that area vibrant again.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh people loved the park.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was nationally renowned.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: However, up until that point, all the baseball, like you said, played in there was was terrible.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and a lot of times, um, you know, it even to this day, I'll I'll I'll see people walking around with Cubs jerseys or whatever teams in town.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of teams, a lot of people that will make the trip because it's this beautiful ballpark.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there wasn't a lot for local fans to really root for.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, and it was so big.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Andrew McCutcheon, and I think they it is more of a tradition at Penn State as they do that, uh, they wear all white at their games.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: So he he did uh blackout, they had everybody they gave out.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they gave out shirts, but they uh everybody wore black pirate shirts.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the whole crowds like just Pressed and back black.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh great thing was though so now you got to bring out the Pittsburgh celebrities, Michael Keaton's in the stands.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's this guy, uh Bill Coyne, who's like a 90-year-old usher.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think he finally retired like a couple years ago, but he was he was working the game and he had been there when Mazarovski had hit the home run in game seven of 1960.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: So there was just like Pittsburgh was ready to go.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's people on the bridge, it's standing room only.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: The crowd is going absolutely crazy an hour before first pitch, which brings us to poor Johnny Quato, who Johnny Quato is actually a really good pitcher.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as much as we like to laugh at him here, it's Johnny Cueto had a career ERA of 1.90 at PNC Park.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty good.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And he was really good against the Pirates.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: So Dusty Baker was not like just losing his mind, throwing him out there.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: He had a pretty good pitcher, but the pro problem was Quato had been hurt that season, and he hadn't been as good in the last months because he had been hurt.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I think he'd hurt his back or something.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing the thing that that one game playoff created was this like pitching.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pitching was the most important thing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because yeah, in baseball, yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you try to get so you you mentioned that series to end the season.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they didn't pitch I doubt they pitched quite a bit.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were Hurdle and Baker were both positioning their team so that they would have their ace go into that one game.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because if if the whole season's on the line for one game, you've got to have your best pitcher pitching that game.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Queto was their best pitcher.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, was not a better great pitcher and and would have a lot of s success after this.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the guy you wanted on the mound if you're a Reds fan.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And Larry Ono had a great season, too.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Although they had Garrett Cole, who had a pretty good year too.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Garrett Cole was still young at that point, but you're right.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they had Charlie, some guy named Charlie Morton ground, but Charlie Morton wasn't Charlie Morton back then.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, he was he was ground chuck back then.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he he was uh and then they had A.J.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Burnett.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: The pitching coach was a guy named Ray Searage, and he was like a magician because he would take these guys like Burnett and Lirriano, who you know had maybe had some success in the past, and they would just totally revive their careers in Pittsburgh.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Lirriano was 16-8 that season, uh, which was unheard of for a Pirates pitcher to win that many games.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't I you know, so so you're right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Liriano was definitely the guy for that game.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just like Cueto was their guy.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it brings us to the first inning, they kind of cruise through both, not much happens.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's I think it's three up, three down for both teams.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then it gets to the second, and that's where things get interesting in the pirates batting, is Marlon Bird.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's his first at bat in the postseason.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Marlon Byrd had played for like eight or ten years prior to that and not had any sniff of the postseason, but he was a pretty good player, and the pirates had signed him, actually traded for him late in the season, and they knew they wouldn't be able to sign him after he was just one of those rental players and a very un-pirate thing to do, but they knew they needed another bat.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And sure enough, to Neil Huntington and whoever else pulled that off their credit, he his first at bat, he hits a home run off Johnny Quato.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, it's only one run home run, it's only one nothing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: So the next batter is um what's his name is Russell Martin.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: So at that point, if you watch, I remember watching on TV, you could hear like a smattering of like, like in hockey, they'll do it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like they the Flyers fans will do it to Flurry, flurry, flurry, and now they do Murray, Murray, you know, they'll do that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: And normally, you know, you make a couple say it goes away, or the fans get bored and do something else.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what was kind of going on in PNC Park in this second inning was the fans were kind of trying to get a Quato chance, but you kind of hear in the background it really wasn't anything at that point.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: And if Quato just keeps himself together and ignores it, it's only one run, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: It it probably goes away.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: People stop doing it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the kid in grade school.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: You ignore it, he's gonna stop calling, he's gonna find someone else to pick on something better to do.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, unfortunately for Johnny Quato, as he walked back to the mound, he got distracted by the cheering and dropped the ball.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what basically changed the game in the Pirates' favor.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because at that point, now the fans go absolutely ballistic.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, nobody's sitting anyway, and now they're like 40,000 people, people on the bridge, everything are yelling Coito, Coito.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: So he's so distracted that his next pitch, he literally, I could have thrown that pitch.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: He grooves it down the middle of the plate, and Russell Martin puts it into like the fifth row.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I think, even though it's only 2-0, I think the Reds were done.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Put a fork in them, they're done.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because the next batter is Larriano, an American League pitcher, and Cueto gives up a single to Larry Ano in his like, I'm sure career one, you know, whatever batting average under zero he has.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, the only thing that saved him was Frazier, the third baseman, made like a highlight reel catch to end this inning at 2-0.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I think at that point the damage had been done, Cueto was pretty much shaken.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, it's I can't remember in professional sports like ever seeing a professional player, especially like somebody that's pretty good and has been in these situations before, get rattled like that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I can't think of anything else like it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was it was such a unique moment in sports period, not just Pittsburgh sports, sports period, because the announcers on TBS met normally they don't mention stuff like that.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and every everybody And it was Cal it was Kyle Ripkin and um Ron Darling.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ron Darling, yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: They they even said, you know, that this is this is getting inside Cueto's head.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been to a lot of sporting events, and and as a fan, you like to think that you have some kind of impact on the game, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you do.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think the energy and the momentum and all that, but like taunting one player or booing one player, that that doesn't do it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, a lot of times it backfires.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like seems to fire him up.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like that like like when the Flyers uh fans boo Sidney Crosby every time he touches a puck, he would just go torch them.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's the kind of thing that it normally does.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: It really, these are professional athletes.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're making millions of dollars a year.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: They they don't they're not gonna get rattled by somebody chanting their name.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: They've been doing this since they were like 16, 15, yeah, since they were in grade school.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: If this is a high school game or maybe even a college game, maybe that stuff works.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it at the professional level, you never saw anybody get rattled.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And for him to walk onto the mound and just drop the baseball.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, i that's not even something I think.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: If he just would have stood there and just composed himself and not drop the ball, I think you know it would have not have been as bad.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then they groove that pitch.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you watch that pitch, oh my goodness.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: He put it right down the middle of the plate.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, you can see he was rattled.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: When he dropped the ball.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I've never I don't know that I've ever seen a pitcher do that, even when they're people aren't inning their names.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: To just be holding the ball and to just fumble it and around and drop it on the on the ground.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he like ran over and picked it up real quick, like maybe nobody will notice.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and like you said, the the crowd just went and like you said, people were already quaido, quay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when that happened, everybody just went into an absolute frenzy.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like he wanted to just get that next pitch over the plate as fast as he could to shut everybody up, and he rushed it, and then Martin throwed it over the left field fence, and that was it.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the crowd was just just it was it was 20 years of people just of Johnny Quato receiving, yeah, 20 years.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: At that moment, just screaming and saying, I sat through this for 20 years, and it was a great moment, and it was a unique moment.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, Steve.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it happened.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because it you just you just never see anything like it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: You really don't, and and that can't I think that might have started with Daryl Strawberry in the 80s.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: People used to can't dare you know, and uh and so, you know, it just whatever name, you just can't their name.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but like you said, it never never has the impact that it had that night.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and then like I say, he gave up that single and they got out of that inning, but then I think he gave up a couple more runs in the next inning, and the Reds are pretty much done because Larry Ano, he's probably the biggest unsung.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everybody remembers Quato and the home runs, but Larry Ano really is the hero of that game.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: He he goes seven innings and only gives up one run.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And the Pirates had a pretty decent bullpen.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Grilly wasn't bad, but they still had in their bullpen, they still had Melanson and probably Morton was probably available.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I mean they they had they had some guys in the bullpen that are pretty good.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it goes seven, he goes seven innings, one run.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Jason Grilly comes in and closes out the game in the ninth.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: The fans go crazy.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the fireworks going off, people are jumping in the water.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, uh Russell Russell Martin with that home run, Marlon Byrd, Durandal player, two for four, two RBIs, Larano, seven innings.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of your heroes of the game.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't even Walker and McCutcheon who were really the nucleus of the team.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was the role players that really drove that that game.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Russell Martin uh had a flair for the dramatic that year.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: He actually had had a bunch of walk-off uh hits or or plays where where he walked off a game.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so he he did kind of that whole year he kind of had that flair for the dramatic, and that was certainly the most dramatic moment of that season.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: He was a really good catcher, too.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Defensive, he's more of a defensive catcher than uh than a offensive power, really.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't Johnny Bench back there, but he could throw people out and he was pretty good at catching the ball.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Marlon Byrd, like I said, had had a pretty good, pretty good game.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: So uh after that they win, and now they gotta go, like you said, they gotta go play the division series.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now you you don't even go to the championship series, you go to the division series, which is a five-game series, a short series.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh what happened was they they would lose the St.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Louis.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Garrett Cole had a pretty good, I remember, series, but nobody else.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: They never were able to really get into like a seven-game where they could I think the Pirates, like we said, their strength was probably more deep pitching.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: The Cardinals had Waka, and I remember they they just couldn't hit Waka that one game.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the Cardinals were a powerhouse.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean they were another.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they had Pooh Holes, who always was a pirate killer.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: The the the the that game that series went five games, so credit to the pirates for taking it the full five games.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I believe uh Cole started game five and and lost.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but they were actually up three games, or I mean sorry, two games to one after three games.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And game four was at PNC Park.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that was with Wacka, wasn't it?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: It may have been, but they they had a can't McCutchin was up in the bottom of the ninth in that game.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: They were down by a run, but there was a guy on base.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, geez.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the last at bat, and he he almost caught one.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean that would have been a dramatic way to end that series.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it but he hit he actually I think he flyed out and then they lost game five.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it it was a pretty good run.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, but they just weren't they weren't quite as good as St.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Louis and yeah, it just it wasn't meant wasn't meant to be.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh the St.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Louis went to the World Series and lost to the Red Sox.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean St.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Louis wasn't I mean they were good, but but they're always like St.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Louis is like like the Steelers of baseball.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're always like really good.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I can see why people like like I never understood why people hate the Steelers.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now I can see why, because like it's like the Pirates have like one seriously one good year out of like 20, and the Cardinals are just like good every year, just come along and like whatever.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean you kind of got that going for you.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: Inevitably the Pirates um, as sports always happens, they lose their core players.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Larryano, Neil Walker, Andrew McCutcheon.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um Larriano probably his performance started to slip.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um Neil Walker and Andrew McCutcheon uh both left via free agency.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: The pirates, you know, once you know the certain amount of years wore off, they just don't they don't pay for high priced VA free agents like the you know Mets, I think Mets and where McCutcheon goes, the Giants.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean they just don't that's not how they do it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I don't know if they could or they couldn't.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's Bob Nutting and his money.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, how much money do you want to spend?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not gonna tell somebody how to run their business and I don't know the numbers, but I can understand why, you know, maybe you wouldn't want to pay all that money.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I would tell somebody how to run their business if I'm a paying customer.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and the play, you know, and and you're right.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: The baseball economics are unfair to the small market teams, for sure.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there are other small market teams that manage to make it work.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and really the big difference is you can't miss on guys.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the Yankees can pay a guy million millions of dollars and he stinks and it's it's no big deal.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can't if you're the Pirates or the A's or the or the Kansas City Royals, you can't do that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: But but there's plenty of other teams that found ways to be at least competitive over a long period of time.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the Pirates never wanted to invest anything.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're at this at this moment in time have the lowest payroll in baseball.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Notting none is cheap.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Kudos to him for for spending some money during this era for making they made the deadline deals.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: But that was all kind of a temporary thing, unfortunately.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, whenever guys started going away, they never bothered to spend the money to to fill any of those holes.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um their front office wasn't apt enough to draft players or or develop players in the back of the bigger.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: In 2013, they closed that loophole, that drafting over the paying over slot for the draft.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a big penalty or something.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: And before you just had to kind of like make up a reason why you were doing it, and like baseball kind of like wink, wink, nod, nod.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: But like I guess you know, the union got sick of it and the Yankees got sick of it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of what's going on in baseball is the union wants a high salary for the few members like Garrett Cole that are gonna sign like he just did with the Yankees, you know, millions of dollars.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the Yankees want to be able to do that to keep themselves competitive and you know they don't really care you know what the small market teams do.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Pedro Alvarez, and that's the the that once again it goes back, the two most expensive things in baseball are pitching and power hitting.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, Pedro Alvarez Everez absolutely just went stunk it up.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: He couldn't he couldn't hit he he couldn't, he struck out way too much and then he couldn't field a position, which in the National League, if you can't field a position, you're you're not gonna work out.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: He was he might have been the worst.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: They kept trying him at different positions.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: They tried him at first base, third base, you know.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: He was just awful.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: But when he was ball boy, I mean, you know, whatever.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: When he was hitting 30 plus home runs in 2013, you could you could afford to have a a bad position player.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, when he wasn't, when the power kind of flamed out, you couldn't do that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um they they did have I mean, you know, they also had they also made that wildcard game in 14 and 15, too.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: They did have other chances at it and they ran into uh uh Arietta, which that's another ironic like Arrietta, every game but that one, they smoked Arietta.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: They they literally hit knocked the cover off the ball.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: And the one game you need to do it, it's kind of the opposite of John Equato.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like John Equato had owned the Pirates up to that point, and then they get them this time, but then in Baumgartner in the other game.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it was another Garrett Cole moment.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Madison Baumgartner and and Jake Arietta were the two pitchers in in 14 and 15, respectively.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so that was just the down 15, especially was a just a like a dream season.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: They won ninety-eight games that year, and they had that great series against the Cardinals, but they still didn't win the division.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: They still had to play that one game, and because they faced those those two pitchers who were who were just on fire at the time, both of them.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Baumgartner's always been good.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Arietta, I think I think that's better living through chemistry because you just don't all of a sudden like he was a mediocre pitcher, and then all of a sudden, oh, look at me.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting to it for one year.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: But but that one year, and especially that that October.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was But even before that, during that year, the pirates everybody he had he had never done well against the Pirates.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember going into that game, like because I think the Cubs had traded for him or something.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: Whoever he played for, the Pirates had played him earlier.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was with Atlanta before that.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but the pirates are like, oh yeah, we hung eight right runs on him like earlier in the year, and it was like, oh well, we should be able to hit this guy.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, eh.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they they never made it as far as they did in 13 and 10.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, that's uh they never could replicate.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And both those games were at home, too, which was all three of those games were at home, yep.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: So and then uh after Pedro Alvarez flamed out, uh some guys named Charlie Morton and Garrett Cole.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you were talking about Ray Searage and uh I think Chuck Tanner, the old Pirates quote manager had a great like uh pitching coach.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he helps four pitchers, hurts four pitchers, and then doesn't really make a difference with the other four.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's kind of like there seems to be some truth to that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because for every AJ Burnett and you know, who else Larry Ono, he helped, there was Charlie Morton and Garrett Cole, which I mean, how do you screw those guys up?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, especially Garrett Cole.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like Morton, I could see maybe like he's always been kind of mediocre, but he's just had a couple clutch game sevens.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Garrett Cole is like legit.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: That that's an ace.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I I don't and it was they always blame because they wanted them to pitch the contact is just let them hit the ball, you play defense.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas Garrett Cole likes to strike people out and throw hard, and I guess the philosophy was well, you would burn yourself out too quick and you'd have to bring in the bullpen earlier.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas if you just pitch the contact, you can get through deeper into the game.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess when Garrett Cole's throwing, you know, 98 to 100 miles an hour, it doesn't matter.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: He can't hit it anyway.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and he Garrett Cole, when he when he first went to the Astros, I mean he talked about it was like night and day in terms of you know the analytics that that Houston had uh and and you know the the things that they identified in his game and the things that they had him doing that no one in Pittsburgh had ever done.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you can certainly see the results of that.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why he's uh you know the richest men in America today because Houston transformed him into this all into this great pitcher.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Then having Scott Boris for an agent else, yeah.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: But um also what I think was disappointing was um the Pirates weren't the only team to be doing this drafting, was uh teams like Kansas City uh had kind of adopted the same philosophy and they ended up going to the World Series in back-to-back years, winning one of those years, and Kansas City is hardly a large market.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: And um also the the Cubs who had are perennial losers ineptitude, they finally broke their streak in 2016.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now the Cubs aren't a small market team by any stretch of the imagination.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: They spend a lot of money, but they were able to rebuild and at least, you know, see one World Series, you know.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Just it's just a shame that the Pirates couldn't at least see one World Series.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or at least, you know, or even or even one playoff series win.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because they still have not won a playoff series in 49.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then um also I uh Johnny Quato uh went on to pitch game two of the 2015 World Series for the Kansas for Kansas City Royals.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh he only he pitched a complete game, which is rare, and only gave up one run to the Mets.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I guess there was nobody there to yell Queto at him in Kansas City, so it worked out.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Not pitching on the road, maybe whoever Ned Yost or whoever runs the uh run the Royals at that time figured we're not gonna let him pitch on the road where he can get heckled.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I think as great as this game was, this Johnny Quaito game, and as much as I think every every Pittsburgh sports fan, even you know, at that point, I'd I had sort of given up on the Pirates.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was certainly not as as big of a fan as I had been.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think everybody in the whole town was, again, fired up for that game, and I think everybody will remember that as a great moment.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it was as great as that moment was and as memorable as uh memorable as it was, I think there's a lot of like sadness to it too, because it just also makes you remember how things quickly fell apart after the next two seasons and how now we're right back at this point again where the team stinks, we won't we won't spend any money.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: We have a keep owner, we have a lot of people.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: You can say that I think the baseball baseball sticks it to the pirates.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: They really do.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, remember when uh when the Cubs, that was the one year they had um the guy from Korea, um uh the the power hitter from Korea, and he was playing second base.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: And the guy from the Cubs slides like 15 feet into the grass to take him out, and he's one of their best hitters.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody that whole light in the media, oh, that's baseball, that's baseball, oh that's baseball, oh, isn't Joe Madden a genius?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: He took out their best player.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then they do the Cubs do the exact same thing to the Mets shortstop, and all of a sudden it's a problem.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Fair fair.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's just it's just been a lot of that in baseball.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, oh, you found a loophole that sticks it to the big market teams.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, we've got to close that loophole.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the Pirates are up against it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not arguing that.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like they it is way harder for them to succeed than it is for a bunch of the other teams.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, Kansas City made it a Kansas City figure out a way, a bunch of other teams figured out a way.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Tampa Bay seems to be competitive everywhere.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Milwaukee.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Milwaukee's another team that fields pretty good teams.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Pittsburgh, you know, it's an owner that wants To run a team, to make as much money as possible, and you know, get as many people as possible, because a lot of people go to pirate games just to go.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one thing that baseball has in its favors.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's the one sport where you can just go on a summer night to just enjoy yourself and you don't really care as much about the team winning and losing.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: You never go to an NFL game saying, Oh, I just want to, you know, have eat some nice food and enjoy the weather.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: You just wouldn't do that with other sports, but you can do that with baseball, so that works in his favor.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it it just it's hard.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I loved when I was a kid, I loved baseball.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was my favorite sport.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that 20-year losing streak, you know, when that ended, I thought, okay, I can I can maybe I can give baseball a little piece of my heart back.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like it evaporated so quickly after after that great night.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and I just I don't know.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we'll ever get back to that.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: So like I said, it's a great moment, but I think it's uh there's also for at least me, there's some sadness there of you know, to your point it could have been, yes.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they they I mean it's hard to say well they didn't maximize it and but I I can't even say that because looking back that year they went out and they got Marlon Byrd.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like they it's just they ran into a pretty good Cardinals team that was a little more experienced in the playoffs than they were.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next two years, I mean they just needed during the regular season, they just needed to win the division and they just never for whatever reason could pull it off.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: They were unfortunate to be playing in such a tough division at that time.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you said, before that, years before that, it wasn't was not a good division.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: But but at that time it was a really strong, really powerful division, so that worked against them.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, and so yeah, they certainly missed their opportunities.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was that 13 team, McCutchin was the MVP.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Mc we didn't really talk much about Kutch.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: He was he's probably their only five-toll player since Bonds.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't think of anybody else that even comes close to being a five-toll player and he's gonna be a good one.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: He was really good.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: He was a really good hitter, too.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a shame.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like people always criticize Barry Bonds like that, but like when you're in a short series, even a seven-game series, it's you know, sometimes they pitch around the star players, or you know, you only get so many at-bats.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and and and so in a seven-gate series, how many at bats are you gonna get?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe twenty.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and yeah, you know.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where you have, like you said, guys like Marlon Byrd and Russell Martin and players like that step up.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um they they had some they it wasn't the whole team, to your point, not like a couple years earlier where the whole team revolved around Kutch.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: There were other players, and and Neil Walker, that was another guy that he grew up in Pittsburgh.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was Pine Rich Pine Richland kid.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: He grew up in that losing streak.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for him to be on that team and in in on the field that night, I think that was kind of special too.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And again, uh just just sad, missed opportunity because and and that was really the only they had that that short window, and because of the way the team is run, that was the that was the window.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said, just running up against teams and pitchers that they couldn't beat, that was it, and that was the end.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and we might never see them get that close.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's still the best.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: I would say that's the best pirate moment in PNC Park.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: By far.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't even know.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even know what to tell you that the for second place choice.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: In B and C Park, I don't know.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Then they come back like down five runs once against somebody like Houston.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Brian Giles hit like a grand slam or something.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: The Brian Giles era might be what a great era that was.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I mean outside of like the w game seven of the World Series in 79, I I mean I can't really think of another you said there's a we were talking to another podcast about game five in Atlanta, but that was in Atlanta.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there's yeah, if you want to talk about great moments, really yeah, take it take it beyond PNC Park, take it all the way back to 79.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's gotta be a top five Pittsburgh's uh Pirates moment.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean Stargeel hitting that home run in the seventh inning, the you know, so you know, take the lead off of whatever the pitcher was for the Orioles.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: But but from from that moment until now, there's not a lot.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's no there really isn't.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's a shame because you compare that to like the Steelers or even even some of the Pitt stuff.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's just uh Right.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: There there's just not a lot of moments.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and Pittsburgh sports history, it's the reason we're doing this podcast because there's just so much, so many great moments.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was really, yeah, that was really kind of kind of it in recent in recent history for the pirates.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: But but all that being said, it was a pretty special moment and a pretty pretty cool memory.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I mean the great pirate moment, people jumping off the bridges going crazy, it was a good moment.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think the pirate fans like it's rare, like you said, the fans could actually will a team.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like you think, oh, you're crazy when you think that.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: But boy, if you watch that game, well, you can't come away without too many other conclusions.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that the pirate fans really had a hand in you know, sh you know, getting in Johnny Quato's head.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's just a shame that it ended so suddenly and it didn't they never capitalized on it.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like it they just wish you could have capitalized with a championship or a little bit more than just a one-game wild card win.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Ver very like I said, very unique moment.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I I honestly can't think of anything even comparable where fans rattled a professional athlete the way that the pirate fans rattled Johnny Quaito that night.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well, thanks for tuning in.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that'll be it for this podcast.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh hopefully the pirates provide us with some more memories in the future that we can have.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not holding my breath.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for tuning in.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks everybody.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Please check us out on uh Instagram and Twitter at Pittsburgh Swords Memories.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Please leave us a rating, and we'll catch you next time.