Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2516 - Rowan Jacobsen

Transcript

#2516 - Rowan Jacobsen · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Roman podcast. Check it out the Joe Rogan Experience
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: showIn My Day Joe.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Rogan Podcast, by Night All Day. Yeah, oh bruh, very
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: nice to meet you man, you too, Thanks, thank you,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: and thanks for doing this work because you want to
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: talk about a subject that's confused so many people. Is
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: the son good for you? Is the son killing you?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Why does it give you vitamin deve? It's bad for you?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Why why do people get skin cancer if it's good
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  Speaker 2: for you?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's super complicated and the messaging has not
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  Speaker 3: sort of admitted that, and that was, yeah, a big
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  Speaker 3: impetus for the book.
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  Speaker 2: When what was your opinion of son exposure before you
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  Speaker 2: start writing this?
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  Speaker 3: So I had, you know, I had inherited the conventional
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  Speaker 3: wisdom from the institutions that it was really bad. At
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  Speaker 3: the same time, I will admit that my instincts were
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  Speaker 3: that maybe it wasn't as bad as they were leading
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  Speaker 3: me to believe, because whenever I was in the soun
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  Speaker 3: good and I live in Vermont at by the time
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  Speaker 3: winter was reaching like month six, I felt bad, right, right,
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  Speaker 3: So it's like, there's more here than we're being told.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my wife's opinion. It's like sun can't
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  Speaker 2: be bad. It always feels good when you go out there.
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh no, it's a little more complicated than that,
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  Speaker 2: but that is a the instinct like it feels great
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  Speaker 2: when you're in the sun. Like, ah, it's like your
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  Speaker 2: body wants it.
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  Speaker 3: Your body wants it. I mean, we now know that
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  Speaker 3: it literally triggers the release of opiates in the brain sunlight.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: So yeah, your body wants it, and your body rewards
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  Speaker 3: you when you get it.
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  Speaker 2: So what is the issue. Well, well, let's go back
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: to the beginning. So you have this idea that sun
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: exposure is probably giving people cancer and sunscreen is good.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: You need more sunscreens stand out of the sun's. So
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  Speaker 2: when you started going into the research, what made you
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  Speaker 2: shift your opinion?
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  Speaker 3: So it really started for me like seven or eight
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  Speaker 3: years ago. I was on this like science journalism fellowship.
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  Speaker 3: So I was just doing research and some of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: studies hit the one about opi at release in the brain.
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  Speaker 3: Other studies showing that when light hit skin, cognition actually improves,
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  Speaker 3: like your metabolism cranks up a little bit when you
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  Speaker 3: the body feels sunlight coming in. And I thought that's interesting,
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  Speaker 3: that's all good stuff. Then I came across a couple
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  Speaker 3: other studies that seem to indicate that sunlight could lower
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  Speaker 3: blood pressure, which was really interesting. So then you know,
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  Speaker 3: I still had the sense sunlight bad, right, So then
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  Speaker 3: I remember just like googling, like, so how much does
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: sunlight like shorten your lifespan? And like the punchline is
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: sunlight seems to extend your lifespan. So when I hit that,
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  Speaker 3: I was like, why are we not hearing this? So
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  Speaker 3: that was the beginning.
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  Speaker 2: And so then so what is the problem, Like, what
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: is the issue with sunlight? Like when you think about
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  Speaker 2: skin cancer, what are the confounding factors that lead to
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  Speaker 2: skin cancer? Are we completely aware of that?
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  Speaker 3: It's more complicated than we thought. So sunlight does increase
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  Speaker 3: your risk of skin cancer, but it depending on the
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: type of skin cancer you're talking about. It's not necessarily
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  Speaker 3: like a linear relationship. So yes, in general, too much
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  Speaker 3: sun increases your risk of skin cancer. But yeah, the
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  Speaker 3: question is what are the confounding factors? How important is
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  Speaker 3: skin cancer compared to these other things. If sunlight reduces
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  Speaker 3: your risk of other diseases, how does that weigh against
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  Speaker 3: the risk of skin cancer. So it's not the type
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  Speaker 3: of thing that can be done in a thirty second PSA.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So, sou sun cancer that does cause skin cancer.
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  Speaker 1: Excuse me?
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  Speaker 2: Sun exposure that does cause skin cancer. What is causing it?
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  Speaker 2: Why is it happening?
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  Speaker 3: So ultraviolet light, which is the most energy intense part
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  Speaker 3: of the solar spectrum. When those photons of light hit
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  Speaker 3: your skin, they go inside. Right we have so are
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  Speaker 3: all wavelengths of light to a greater or lesser degree.
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  Speaker 3: And that super high energy ultraviolet light, if it hits
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  Speaker 3: a DNA molecule, it can mess up the DNA molecule
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  Speaker 3: and then that can lead to mutations and skin cancer.
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  Speaker 3: Then it can also indirectly cause skin cancer by creating
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  Speaker 3: what are called reactive oxygen species, which are free radicals basically,
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  Speaker 3: so it energizes these atoms that start to steal electrons
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  Speaker 3: from other atoms and cause a little chain reaction, which
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  Speaker 3: is what a free radical is. So ultraviolet light can
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  Speaker 3: increase your free radicals and it can directly damage DNA.
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  Speaker 3: So that's why it could cause skin cancer. So it
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  Speaker 3: was basically that learning that one fact back in like
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  Speaker 3: the forties and fifties that made scientists start to say
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  Speaker 3: light skin cancer, maybe we should think about how much
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  Speaker 3: siine we're getting.
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  Speaker 2: But this wasn't universally accepted, right, There were some people
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  Speaker 2: that even back then thought that sun exposure was very
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: healthy for you. Like, when did we figure out that
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  Speaker 2: sun causes the body to produce vitamin D?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was an important part and it's a big
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  Speaker 3: part of the story, I think, because that was really
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  Speaker 3: back in the twenties that we figured that out. And
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: then even a little earlier we realized that sunlight could
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  Speaker 3: prevent rickets.
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  Speaker 1: So rickets.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so rickets is a like soft bone disease, Like
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  Speaker 3: if you don't get enough calcium in your bones when
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: you're a kid, when your baby, you get soft bones,
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  Speaker 3: you get rickets, really bad disease. And in the Industrial Revolution,
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  Speaker 3: kids starting getting rickets, started getting rickets. Farm kids never
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  Speaker 3: got rickets. Then suddenly kids are working factories, they're living
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  Speaker 3: in cities that are choked with coalsmog, they're living in
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  Speaker 3: tenement buildings, they're never seeing the sun, and they all
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  Speaker 3: start getting rickets. Late late eighteen hundreds.
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  Speaker 1: Is nutrition a factor in that vitamin D?
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  Speaker 3: It was all vitamin D. At first they thought maybe
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  Speaker 3: it was vitamin A, but it turned out it was
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  Speaker 3: That was how vitamin D was discovered was some doctors
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  Speaker 3: figured out that it could solve kid rickets and kids.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And then they figured out that if sun hit skin,
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  Speaker 3: that's how we made vitamin D. Then they figured out
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: they tested, uh, they based some tests on.
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  Speaker 1: Dogs.
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  Speaker 3: Actually, one of the guys figured it out. He was
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  Speaker 3: pretty he had a hunch that that's what it was. Like,
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  Speaker 3: they noticed that kids in the country wouldn't get rickets,
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  Speaker 3: and kids in the city did get rickets. So like,
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  Speaker 3: I wonder if it's sunlight. So then a guy took
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  Speaker 3: dogs and this is I think Scotland, stuck them in
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  Speaker 3: a They actually thought it was dietary. He stuck them
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  Speaker 3: inside in this like little like warehouse and fed them oatmeal,
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  Speaker 3: which is whatever in Scotland ate at the time, and
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  Speaker 3: the dogs got rickets and he thought it was the oatmeal.
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  Speaker 3: He's like, okay, so something about diet. But then he
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  Speaker 3: got lucky because he had deprived the dogs of sunlight
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  Speaker 3: and that's why they got rickets. So then eventually they
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  Speaker 3: realized that light hitting cholesterol molecules in the skin actually
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  Speaker 3: converts the molecules to vitamin D. So vitamin D is
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  Speaker 3: like downstream of cholesterol, but it takes that same ultraviolet
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  Speaker 3: light that can screw up your DNA. It actually breaks
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  Speaker 3: a bond in the cholesterol molecule which allows it. It
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  Speaker 3: gives it some movement, and it flips around into a
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  Speaker 3: new form that's vitamin D. So once they figured that out,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: then they're like, sun's really good for you. So we
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: had this air in like the twenties, thirties and into
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  Speaker 3: the forties when everyone thought sun would cure everything, and
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: they like went after it hard really Yeah, like they
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  Speaker 3: parents would send their kids up into the Alps in
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  Speaker 3: like the twenties to institutes for healiotherapy. Kids would ski
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  Speaker 3: around in their underwear, take classes in their underwear. Awesome
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  Speaker 3: photos from this era, Like the instructors are in their
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  Speaker 3: underwear in the mountains outside in Switzerland teaching the kids,
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  Speaker 3: and everyone looks really healthy. Right, So there's kind of
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  Speaker 3: like this idea that you couldn't get too much light.
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  Speaker 3: So people are literally burning themselves on purpose for health.
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  Speaker 2: Is that the issue is burning a giant part of
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  Speaker 2: the issue.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So to give it away now, it looks like
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  Speaker 3: for melanoma, which is the most dangerous type of skin cancer.
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  Speaker 3: It's associated with burning strongly, but not with like gentle
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  Speaker 3: moderate every day suning exposure.
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  Speaker 2: So how much of a factor is skin type like
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  Speaker 2: people that are pale or have freckles and red hair,
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  Speaker 2: blonde hair, like, how much of a factor is that
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  Speaker 2: in skin cancer? And can they mitigate that by like
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  Speaker 2: gentle slow exposure, like a little bit of here, a
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  Speaker 2: little bit there, and slowly build up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, huge, Like skin type is kind of everything. People
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  Speaker 3: have really dark skin basically don't get sun induced skin
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  Speaker 3: cancer almost never, and the you know, the authorities don't
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  Speaker 3: tend to talk about that because they want things to
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  Speaker 3: be They want to have like these one size fits
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  Speaker 3: all recommendations. But those recommendations to basically always avoid the
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  Speaker 3: sun are written for the super fair people. Especially if
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  Speaker 3: you have red hair, orange freckles, then you actually have
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  Speaker 3: a mutation in your melanin gene that makes you super
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  Speaker 3: susceptible to skin cancer from sunlight. So if you've got
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  Speaker 3: if you've got that phenotype, lots of moles, red hair, freckles,
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  Speaker 3: you do have to be really careful and you can't
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  Speaker 3: you can only do so much, like you're not gonna
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  Speaker 3: tan that much anyway, Your melons just different everybody else. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you're you're much less susceptible, and you can tan you know,
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  Speaker 3: you can make more melanin pretty easily through tanning.
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  Speaker 2: I wonder, what, if any effect have you ever heard
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  Speaker 2: of that I don't I can't remember the name of
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  Speaker 2: the peptide. But there's a peptide that people are taking
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  Speaker 2: now that causes their body to generate melanin and they
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  Speaker 2: get really dark.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really weird.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know what's going on there exactly.
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  Speaker 3: It seems like that peptide is maybe making you There's
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  Speaker 3: things called photo sensitizers that make your skin super sense,
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  Speaker 3: like like you just absorb solar radiation really well then,
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  Speaker 3: but not necessarily in a good way, and that can
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  Speaker 3: make you make tons of melanin to try to compensate.
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  Speaker 3: So I wonder that peptide might be triggering like melanin
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  Speaker 3: as a compensation mechanism for extra protection from sunlight, or
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  Speaker 3: maybe it's just making melanin happen like independently of night.
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  Speaker 1: Did you put it in a perplexity? All right? Here?
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  Speaker 2: It is mela, meloton, melanoton, melanotan melanotan, since peptide analog
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  Speaker 2: of the naturally occurring hormone alan melanocyte stimulating hormone stimulates
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  Speaker 2: the body's melanocytes to produce melanin, resulting in a dark tan.
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  Speaker 2: It's largely unread, unre excuse me, unregulated, illegal in many
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  Speaker 2: regions for cosmetic purposes, and carry significant health risks.
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  Speaker 1: What's the risks.
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  Speaker 2: It's not approved by the FDA for cosmetic use and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: unregulated market means purity okay, but that's unregulated. Notable risks
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  Speaker 2: include dermatological issues, rapid and uneven darkening of existing moles,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the emergence of new moles, and hyperpigmentation concerns that could
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  Speaker 2: mask or accelerate the development of melanoma. What is this
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  Speaker 2: potentially damaging erections?
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: What?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's right. This apparently gives people raging erections, prolonged,
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  Speaker 2: painful and potentially damaging, damaging. Imagine you get an erection
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and it goes so hard you redline the penis. Medical
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  Speaker 2: and dermatological organizations strongly advise against the use of melanoton
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  Speaker 2: melanotan because it's unapproved, there are no clinically established safe dosages.
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  Speaker 3: Well, card because that so alpha ms h. The thing
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  Speaker 3: that it is mimicking is is that's how your body
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  Speaker 3: makes melanin. That's how you's supposed to do it.
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  Speaker 2: You got to see the before and after because they're
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  Speaker 2: kind of bonkers. I've seen some people get super well.
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  Speaker 2: The problem is it's Instagram. You never know what's real.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: That's that guy got a little tan. Let's see if
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  Speaker 2: there's any Okay, look how pale that see?
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  Speaker 1: But that's not How do we know if that's real?
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  Speaker 4: Just like there's like a light on them right.
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  Speaker 2: And then he's in a fucking dark closet In the.
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  Speaker 5: Last picture before and after photos I've seen?
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  Speaker 2: Is there that one right there? The low the no,
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  Speaker 2: the one, yeah, that one?
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  Speaker 1: Look at that guy?
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know it's a look, it's.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: An interesting look.
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  Speaker 2: He injected himself with unregulated tanny peptide milanotown Milana tan.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: To click on.
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  Speaker 2: That, it seems like a no, no, this guy, this
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  Speaker 2: is the guy that I saw online. This guy's he's
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the test rabbit. This dude went hard.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Did he get a direction too?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he died from that. I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: So his before and afters so let's see what is
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  Speaker 2: he just Okay, Yeah, he just got.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Darker and darker and darker.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: But I wonder if, like if I understand that it's unregulated,
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  Speaker 2: but if it was regulated, and this is something they're
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: trying to work with right now with peptides and make
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: them regularly. See that's the photo's dark though. I mean
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  Speaker 2: that's like a shitty iPhone one camera. That's crazy. If
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: that's really like, this is nuts. There's something going on there,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: like you know what looks like it looks like those
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: bodybuilder guys who.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Use that that.
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  Speaker 2: That ink that die on their skin to make themselves
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: darker so their muscles pop out more. So here's here's
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: better tanning log photos.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: These are better photos.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, But I wonder if that offers skin protection.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: It would definitely offer the I mean if it is,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: if it's if it's melanin right, definitely, I mean that
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: guy can can probably be outside all day.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's the question. Is that available to someone
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: who's pale? Like and if someone is pale, uh see
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: if you can find an example of someone who's pale
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: who took it, because you would think like, oh well
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: maybe that maybe just we need to do studies and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: figure out what the dosage is and figure out how
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to activate that aspect of it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Melanin clearly protects you from from skin cancer, like if
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: you if you have super dark skin like you know
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: African ancestry, you're blocking like your melanin is absorbing like
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: ninety seven ninety eight percent of the UV rays. It's
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: super effective.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But didn't Bob Marley die from skin cancer?
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: He did?
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: That's pretty crazy?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is one.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Wow, it looks like the same person, the same mold.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like the same mold. That looks pretty good.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: But I would just also wouldn't if you were trying
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: to sell some of this stuff and maybe nefarious ways,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: this would be an easy one to market.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. Tough.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And you know definitely, Look, this is part of the
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: unregulated market problem is we don't know. And also you
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: know you're getting ninety nine bro science on this stuff.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: You know, like.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: What screams BROSI It.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Screams it from the top of the hills. What legitimate
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: scientist is out there injecting himself with melanotan.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: But the other thing is if you do it naturally, right,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: if you just get a little sun every day and
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: slowly build up. You're not just making melon, and you're
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: also increasing your body's damage or pay system. Like you
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: have all these like nuclear tide excision repair things that
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: fix your DNA and fixed cells that have gotten screwed up,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: and that will also ramp up every day you And
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: it's not just not just sunlight like exercise, same thing,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: like anything that that like stresses the body a little bit.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: It's like hormesis. Right, So all those things are going
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: to cause your damage repair system to crank up and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: be ready. So you probably want those to, like the
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: melanin and the damage repair to to like go up together.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Right, So you would want to if if let's say
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: studies were done, let's say we found what the effective
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and safe dose is and how to administer it, you
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: would want to do it along with sun exposure slowly
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to try to ramp up your body's ability.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: Added note on this, this happened fourteen years ago. WHOA,
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: which is strange. Here's some of the side effects, he said.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: But he also saidies pretty much impervious to UV at
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: this point increased.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Libido didn't see that one much either, He said he
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: didn't get it. Okay, sides are decreased appetite, very mild,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: nausea more for some none for me. Decreased libido, increased
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: libido he said it didn't see that one much either.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Some get facial flushing like a nyas and dose. Never
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: got that either. And the most strange things that it
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: feels really good to stretch, like when you first wake up. Interesting,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Huh did you do it for the skin cling? Yes,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I did it for skin coloring. I'm pretty much impervious
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to UV at this point. I have faded about twenty
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: five percent since returning from Florida January thirty fifth. Will
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: be dosing again probably March. Is this guy still alive?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Click on that link where his his profile. Let's see
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: if Homeboys alive.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: This takes us die?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Is this reddit?
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Say a year ago he's commenting I never did it subtle?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so a year ago he's still alive or someone has.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Taken over his account.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: In theory, you could use an old school courts tanning lamp. Okay,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: so you could tan with it, and.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: Is in a weird reddit there, so we're gonna stop looking.
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: Why I don't, I mean, this is not for the show,
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: but he isn't a weird.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okays a friend to go that way,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that's a problem.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Well, only crazy people are willing to try something like that. Like,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: do you remember that there was a guy, god, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: think it was on Oprah one of those shows where
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: he was taking was it silver? That's right, colloidal silver,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and his whole his skin turned blue permanently like a smurf.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Poor guy, and he wound up dying.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and how did it kill him?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it killed him, but he's I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: believe he died.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: No, that's homeboy. Not good.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just not a good look.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: You would think you'd start tearing a little blue and
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you go, hey, maybe I need to back off.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: This colloidal silver surf die.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what the fuck dude, that guy. I mean,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: maybe he could have gotten some lanotan and even that out.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It's just been a nice chocolate, you know, like a
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: bluish chocolate.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, he looks delicious, I'll say that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is arguria.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Argeria argeria, the rare disease that turns people blue, caused
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: by a buildup of silver in the body which discolors
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the skin.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Twenty thirteen, he died from unrelated causes.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Whatever that means.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, anybody's taking that much coidal silver, you're probably
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: making a lot of other mistakes.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like you're risky, dude.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: So many options.
• 19:47
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• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Back to Bob Marley, Yes, he did die of skin cancer,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: and that confuses a lot of people. So he had
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: he had melanoma on his toe. So and that was
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: a kind of uh melanoma that's not caused by the sun.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: And everybody gets it no matter you know what race
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: you are. Everybody gets it at this the same rate,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: which is it's quite uncommon. They know it's not caused
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: by the sun, but it like it complicates things for
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: people because people are like, I got melania my toe
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: and and they think it's from the sun, and they're like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: how did that happen? Right, Like, what's melanoma doing on there?
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: But so it does not all melanomas are are caused
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: by the sun. There's you know, most probably are. But
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: it gets really weird with melanoma. It's associated with burning
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: with like intermittent sun exposure. Like you work in an
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: office all year and then you go to kankun and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: get fried. H that's a pretty good recipe for melanoma.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: History of sunburns also like will double your risk chronic
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: exposure where you have an outdoor job every day lower
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: than average risk of melanoma.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: So really, yeah, so it gets weird like landscaper.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Landscapers have outdoor workers have fewer have a lower incidence
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: of melanoma than office workers. Wow, we don't hear that.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: No, No, I mean I was. I was looking at
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Instagram the other day and some poor guy had this.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happened to his face, but he
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: had some sort of skin cancer and they had to
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: take a graft and his it was on his nose,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: so it was like a flap of skin was like
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: almost covering over his eye. And you know, his message
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: was where sunscreen? This would happen to me?
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Well, so I mean, yeah, so I don't want to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: downplay skin cancer because it sucks. He would you get
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: it if it's you know, they have to cut off
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: a hunk of your year or something that doesn't sucks,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: even if it's not life threatening sucks.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: But and so yeah, like, but that's generally from overexposure,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: like burning. Burning, All the expertise fucking with said don't
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: burn right.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Burning is the one that people always say that it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: not just burning, it's burning causes damage that starts to
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: appear years later.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's there's dialing in on that more and more.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: It can start like burns during childhood is actually the
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: highest association from melanoma. Don't burn when you're a kids
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: that We're all screed.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Oh that sucks.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: That sucks because I fucking cooked myself as a kid.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Say may.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: I grew up in Florida fried.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Well, when I was a kid in the seventies and eighties,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you wanted to get a tan, especially when
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I lived in Boston. It was cold as shit in
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: the winter. When it got warm, you know, you're a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: vermont Caa.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: You got out.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: There, like, ah, put baby oil on.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: We fried totally.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I was just looking at some of those Johnson baby
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: able ads from like the sixties and seventies. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah,
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: it was basically the cooking lube is totally.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just helped helped you cook better.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: But you remember, you know George Hamilton, like the actor, yeah,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: mister tan.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: He yeah, he was.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: All about that. I just the other day I was like,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: how's he doing eighty seven and ridiculously healthy?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Right? Really?
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's going strong.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I met that guy. He was.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: He did an episode of News radio once. Yeah he
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: was tan as fuck. Yeah, that was that was his thing.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: That was his thing if he came Yeah, what he
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: was known for. And still he's still going.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: That's so he's still tan.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah you should see him.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: He looks really Pull a photo of George Hamilton, I.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Mean great for an eighty seven year old.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look at him, still tan?
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: How does he shiny?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: What a weird thing to be known for.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: He's the guy who gets tan, you know what I'm saying.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, try to remember a role that he played.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: That's true. I think he was Dracula in some bad
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventies like comedy. Look at that that's a tan
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: right there.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Right, So how was he getting it? Though?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Like I remember when I was a kid in Boston,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of people use tanning beds, especially in the
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: winter time, and.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: They still do. Like that those are actually like on
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: the rise and they do. They seem to raise the
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: risk of melonuma for sure. There you go, that's how.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: We did it.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Ah. Look, he's got to reflect a tan thing. So
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: he's just out there getting sunlight all the time, and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: he didn't look bad. That's you know, that's a that's
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: a weird one.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: Right, he claims he's never had get cancer.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I think, well, he probably was doing it so often
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: that his body was prepared for it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Right. Look at that photo of.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Him with that lady in the corner. Yeah, look at that.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: That's nuts.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: See that's the thing I think, Like, if you're getting
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: that regular dosage, your body is producing all these compounds
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: whose entire job is to make sure your cells don't
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: turn cancer. Is because you know, living things have been
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: working on this for five hundred million years, Like they
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: get hammered by the sun every day and they got
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: to deal with it.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: So it's when it seems like when your skin is
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: totally unprepared and you shock it with like a massive
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: dose that that it's not ready for, then you're in trouble.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Like that's the kind of thing that triggers trouble.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Was there any pushback on this research, like when you
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: when you first started examining this and realizing that sun
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: exposure has a lot of benefits. Were any dermatologists saying, hey,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: this is dangerous information. You shouldn't say this.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I've been denounced multiple times, but really, the
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: American Academy of Dermatology, like officially they send an official
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: letter when I write an article and they say nobody
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: should be getting any sun exposure.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: That's their opinion. No one should be getting any sun exposure,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: regardless of the benefits the vitamin D.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: The no sun exposure without protection from either sunscreen or
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: you know, clothing. Wow, and if, if, if, that makes
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: you vitamin D deficient, take a pill. So that's what
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: needs to change, because those pills haven't panned out in tests.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: They don't work like natural D does for whatever reason.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, they don't.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Work at all.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: So everyone thought, like back in like the eighties nineties,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: everyone started noticing. Scientists started noticing that people who naturally
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: had lower amounts of vitamin D in their blood had
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: higher rates of all like the classic chronic diseases. So
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: they start thinking, Okay, vitamin D, it's like a magic
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: pill almost. It'll cure, It'll reduce everyone's risk of all
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: these diseases if we raise their rates of D. So
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: they started recommending vitamin D pills, which I think are
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: still like the number one supplement.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: In the world. I take it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: So then they did all these clinical trials to prove
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: that it would help huge, huge clinical trials, tens of
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: thousands of people, follow ups that went for many years.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: None of them showed a benefit.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: No benefit in terms of your immune.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Response, no benefit for any condition.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Now, did they take vitamin D along with vitamin K
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: two and with magnesium, because that's what's recommended.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: So I don't. I mean, there are a bunch of different.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Apparently vitamin D by itself is not effective. That you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: need vitamin D with K two and magnesium, and I
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: think there might be another one. Well, see put that
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: into perplexity. Please see what it says, like what are
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: the benefits of vitamin D and what should it be
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: taken with? Because I think magnesium and K two are
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the big ones, and that together they have a sort
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: of a synergistic effect.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that could be, Like I'd be curious.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think vitamin D by itself the body has
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: a problem absorbing it. It's like there's a lot of
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: things like that, Like zinc is like that, you need
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: an ionophore to absorb zinc, so you take it with
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: corse tin.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, one thing D you know the way it
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: naturally comes in through the skin, and it comes in
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: with a whole bunch of related compounds right, and so yeah,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: I do think think there's sort of a synergistic effect
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: when it's combined with the right thing.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: But D from the sun has always been known as
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the best way to get it, the best way to
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: get vitamin D, the most effective, the healthiest way is
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: through sun exposure.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's how the design is supposed to work.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Perplex He says.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Vitamin D helps your body absorb calcium, build strong bones,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to t support muscles and nerves, plays a key role
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in immune function. It's best absorbent taken with a meal
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: or a snack that contains some fat and offered paired
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: with calcium for bone health. So please put in what
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: are the benefits of vitamin D taken with K two
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and magnesium? See it says that because this is what
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: my doctor, who is a vitamin specialist, recommends benefits when
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: taken with K two and magnesium.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Don't d okay.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Taking vitamin D together with vitamin K two and magnesium
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: can make each of the the work more effectively, especially
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: for bones and heart, as long as the doses are
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: appropriate for you. The trio mainly improves how your body
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: handles calcium. Interesting D helps you absorb it, magnesium helps
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: activate D, and K two helps send calcium into bones
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: instead of arteries. D increases calcium absorption from your gut
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and supports bone, muscle, and immune function. Magnesium required to
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: activate vitamin D. Low magnesium can blunt vitamin d's effect
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and also directly support bone structure and many enzymes. K
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: two activates proteins that move calcium into bones and teeth
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and keep it out of the arteries and soft tissues,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: helping bone and cardiovascular health. Potential benefits of the combo
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: better bone support, heart and artery protection, more efficient vitamin
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: D use. Okay, so the doctor is correct. So maybe
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: that's the problems that these people were taking it with
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: low magnesium, low calcium, didn't have K two.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like, like, I'd be curious if, like, if
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: there was an effect on disease incidents for that combination.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know, because the D on its own, Yeah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: it didn't show any any effect, but sun exposure, let's.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Put that in.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Does vitamin D taken on its own have any health benefits?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Let's see what it says to that. Because I had
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: never heard that that D on its own was not
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: effective at all. I've just heard that it was minimally
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: effective that you had to take it with other.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: It seems like it only helps people who have who
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: are really deficient like you. If you're super low, like
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: below like sixteen nanograms per milli leader, then probably it's
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: a good idea. But like for people who already had
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: like at least twenty nanograms for mill leater, it didn't
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: seem to have any of these benefits that they were
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: seeing in people who naturally had high rates.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: To sound it says, yes, vitamin D on its own
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: has several well proven health benefits, especially for bones, muscles.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: And immunity.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Just like a general answer, huh, bone strength and fracture prevention,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: muscle function adequate.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: But sorry, what's up?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't I miss the word on it on its own.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: That's try why the answer was weird.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So let's say, yes, it's clear proven benefits, especially for bones, muscles,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: and correcting deficiency.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's going to be for people who have
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: super low.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Levels HM preventing rickets. There it is.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But so they had thought that it might reduce
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: instance of all these other diseases based on what they're
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: seeing for people who naturally at high levels sun exposure,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and it didn't.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: So then people who had high levels through sun exposure.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, except because your your natural level off iman D
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: is sort of a direct like meter of how.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Many right, but this is natural level. You're not talking
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: about supplementation, right right, Okay.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: So that was why, like people who had high levels
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: of D without supplementation have lower rates of all like
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: every disease you can think, right, So the hope was
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: that raising everyone's DED to those levels would have the
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: same effect, and it didn't. Like New England Journal Medicine
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: did actually did an editorial in twenty twenty two saying
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: stop prescribing D doesn't work, which is God.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: That seems incorrect though, because if you're taking it with
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: magnesium in K two, it seems that they do work
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: senergistically and there seems to be proven health benefits. That
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: One of the problems I think is like I think
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: people generally want to avoid recommending supplementation for some reason.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a weird thing, like they want to
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: dismiss it. Like I had a doctor once who told
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: me don't bother taking vitamins, just eat a balanced diet,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: And I was like, look.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: At you, the guy looked like shit, he didn't get
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: as you right, it was terrible. Yeah, I'm amazed poor
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: what poor health they generally like seem to do.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Right, I can't blame take it.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so hard to take seriously a guy
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: with a gut when we'll just he looked terrible. Yeah,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: And he was telling me that I just need a
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: healthy diet, and I'm like, okay, I do have a
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: healthy diet, but also I feel different when I take
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: vitamins and my blood work reflects that.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: I notice that when I was I started going to
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: all the conferences of the sun researchers, and they're all
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: in like the basements of hotels, and those guys all
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: look are as pasty as it gets, Like, do none
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: of you guys, like you know, practice what you preach? Really?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: How strange is it that human beings, with all of
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: our knowledge, with I mean obviously just much more to learn,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: we're still confused about how we interact with our environment.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, with sun, which seems to me like it's there,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it's it's everywhere. It's like you're always in the sun
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: in normal in the normal world environment where human outside
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: of cities and all that stuff. That's it seems like
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: we would have an understanding of what happens when you're
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: interacting with sun.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and light period like light all kinds like it
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: seems like there's the sense in biology that light didn't matter.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: It's like just ephemeral, which you know, the quantum physicists
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: one hundred years ago understood that light and matter are
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: just like two halves the same coin, right, and that
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: light totally affects the behavior molecules. We're made of molecules,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Light's going to matter. So I actually think, like that's
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: where I eventually got to with the book. I was like,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: we need to think about our light diets and our
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: like light scapes that we're you know, surrounding ourselves with,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: like more seriously than we have.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems like your work is based entirely on
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the data. So what did these dermatologists have to say
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: about the data If they're denouncing you and they're saying that,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: you know, this guy should not be listened to the
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: things you're saying are dangerous, like, but you're talking about data.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: So I don't understand how they just make those flat statements.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Like that, right, And what I think we just need
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: to have a conversation about the data. And you know
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: there's no like right answer ahead of time. But they
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: don't like their jobs is to prevent skin cancer. So
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: if that's your only job, you're gonna tell people stay
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: out of sunlight forever, forever, right, And no one can
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: call you on that. No one can say, hey, like,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: I got skin cancer, it's your fault.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Right, But doesn't sun exposure improve cardiovascular health and lower
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: blood pressure? And isn't cardiovascular disease a far more dangerous
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: problem than skin cancer? In terms of numbers.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: It's number one, twenty million doses a year cardia. So
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: anything that moves the needle.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: On that is awesome, you know, and it does, and.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: It seems to like all the studies show it does.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: But they're all observational studies, right. You look at populations,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh, these people have more sun exposure, lower
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: blood pressure, lower rates of cardiovascular disease. But then you
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: know the other side will say, you know, correlation does
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: not prove causation, like prove show us that it's you know,
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: do do your giant clinical study where you stick half
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: the people in the sunlight and they live longer, which
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: is not gonna happen.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, But it's like, are they willing to have
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: a conversation with you.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: They're not. They're not willing to They don't want to
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: look outside of the sun and uh skin cancer question. Like,
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: they're not willing to entertain any of the other benefits
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: that are outside of their field. So there's got to
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: be somebody out there who can be the generalists, who
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: can like think about it holistically.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: That seems so ignorant.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: It's the it's the it's this data of science now,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: like the sciences is, you know, like a field of
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: micro specialties. Like, yeah, I'll take a little that looks
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: good when you're pooring it. It's almost a very shiny
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: uh press.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got there.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Cheers.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: It's coffee good for you.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Coffee is awesome. For coffee is shocking.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: The good vite talk to me, let's go.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: It's it is fucking crazy how good coffee is for you.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: I've I've been like startled by the power of the evidence.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've read both. I've read It's bad for you,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: and I dismissed it because I'm biased and I love coffee,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and uh, I just it just it just tastes too good.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: It feels too good. I like it.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: It's but I've read a lot of benefits about it.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's the best possible supplement. Really, you think
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: if it's a supplement, it's the best. And I think
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: it's all due to mitochondrial function. I think it makes
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: your mitochondria just spin, you know.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Hm hm.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And it's particularly because of caffeine or coffee itself.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Is the coffee bean.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean caffeine. I think it's caffeine, but
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised if there's other stuff in coffee
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: that's contributing, because you know, like tea doesn't seem to
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: quite like deliver the good it's like coffee does.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: No.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: The caffeine is actually the plants are making it to
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: kill bugs right right, because it makes the bugs minochondria
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: run out of control and they basically like blow up.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: It does that to us, but we have these other
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: like like governors like that come in and slow down
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: that ramp up so we get the nice ramp up
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: without the explosion. So it's good. So it makes it,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: you know, we produce energy more efficiently with less wear
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: and tear.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That's all I need to hear. I'm in I just
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: love the coffee.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not giving it up.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: But I've heard many people say that. Michael Polland had
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: a really interesting anecdote. He laid off coffee for I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: think three or four months as an experiment, and then
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: he had a cup of coffee and he said it
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: was like taking a psychedelic He said, I just felt
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: so amazing and the effect was so profound. He said,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to do it only that way where
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I only take it, you know, very rarely, because but
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: then I fell right back into me right back.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember that article. It was great. And also
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: you said none of the like the caffeine researchers touched
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: the stuff, like that's not good. But yeah, he he
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: went right back to it. And I think he's a
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: proud coffee drinker.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah he is. He went right back to it.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: But so have you had any conversations with these dermatologists
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that are denouncing you.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: No, but I'd like to, actually, I think are.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: They willing or have they avoided them?
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: They have so far really avoided like they they just say,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: you know, we're not ready to look at any of
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: that research.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: It's so weird.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: I think it's gonna change. I think actually, like like
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: I said, I think light medicine is actually going to
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: become very important in the next ten twenty years, and
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: dermatologists are kind of positioned to be like the leaders
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: on that stuff because like skin is the primary like
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: interface with light for our biby, and you know, they
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: should be experts on all this. You know, red light
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: therapy is a big thing now and dermantologists are doing
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: that even though the evidence isn't great for that, but
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I think there's probably something there, but they should. Basically,
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: I think they need to be thinking more about all
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: of these different wavelengths of light as healing modality is,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: and how to you know, work them into like regular
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: like programs.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I've talked about this before, so I apologize to anybody listening,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: but I've essentially completely stopped my macular degeneration with red
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: light therapy.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not just stopped it, but reversed it, Like I
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: don't need reading glasses anymore. I've been using a red
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: light bed for about two years now, and from the
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: time I started using it, within about a month I
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: started seeing benefits. And so Gary Breco was on the
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: podcast and explained it to me, and so I went
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: out and bought one of these really expensive it's like
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: a tanning bed, this thing you lie in and I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: do it three times a week for twenty minutes, so
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: all over. Yep, you naked, slide down in there and
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I keep my eyes open and they you know, I
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: went to a tanning bed once, not a tanning bed,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: a red light bed once at a health clinic and
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: they were like, gotta wear these goggles and make sure
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you close your eyes before the light goes on. I
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, I did all that, and apparently there's
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: some benefit that even when blindfolded it increases your vision.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure it's and again I think mitochondria a
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: part of that.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Answered.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: There's a guy at University College London, Glenn Jeffrey, who
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: this is his whole field optometry and red light, and
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: he has shown in multiple different animals including humans, that
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: red light improves mitochondria function and improves vision.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm fifty eight and for me to be
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: fifty six and saying I'm fucked. I had these fucking
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: things everywhere. I had these all these reading glasses. I
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: had them all over my house i'd gotten up to
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: three x. These are the cheap Amazon ones. I had
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: a nice pair, but I keep losing them, so I
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: just want to but cheap ones.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: They seem to work.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And it was just fine for looking at a computer,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: you know, reading my emails, reading my phone, and I
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: needed them to read my phone. I don't need them anymore,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: like at all. I don't use them anymore. My vision's
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: not perfect. It's not as good as it was when
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I was twenty, but is way better than it was
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: when I was fifty six.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: See, and yeah, I think so. The the in the eye,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: the mitochondria in the eyes have to fire faster than
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: any mitochondria anywhere else in the body. The eyes burn
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: through your energy like like no other cells because it's like,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of the toughest task. It's like
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: they got to go super fast. So they, yeah, they
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: those mitochondria need to be on top of their game.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: And it seems like red light benefits that in particular.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: What seems so close minded that these dermatologists aren't willing
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: to say, maybe we're looking at just an insufficient amount
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: of data, Maybe we're looking at the wrong Maybe the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: whole thing is much more nuanced, and maybe there's benefits
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: of done correctly. I just don't understand why they're not
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: if there's all this data, which clearly you show in
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: your book that there's a tremendous amount of data.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Why you know, Like so there's this like saying attributed
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: to Max Plunk, who's this like quant physicists science advances
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: one funeral out of time? Right, So I think we
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: got to let the old guard they die off a
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: little bit. But I guarantee there's a young generation coming
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: in who's gonna be really interested in light and how
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: they can use it.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, certainly. Well, I think there's so many conversations available
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: online now from actual researchers and people that have put
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: in the time and put in the work and explored
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: things from this position that like, hey, maybe the old
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: guard are not correct and the data seems to show
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: that that's true.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's fun, I mean playing with light, it's
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: super fun. So like this is a way you can
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: you can like make your world a little bit richer.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: It is starting to think about this stuff.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also like, don't you want to be informed?
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And if there's if we do understand that it has
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: an effect on monochondria, and there is all this evidence
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: that red light seems to have some benefits, Like wouldn't
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand how someone could be an expert
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: in skin and ignore that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that and they'll be they won't object
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: to the red Some of them are using red light
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: therapy because there's no risk of skin cancer from red.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: It's only the UV and maybe a little bit of
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: the blue that contributes to skin cancer, so that it's
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: the UV where they get a little wigged out.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but but even that, it seems like there's a truth.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Like in your book, you show there's a tremendous amount
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: of data there's health benefits to it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: So I just don't understand.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: And that data it's coming from all different other fields
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: like immunology, cardiology, so and like scientists are sort of
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: increasingly like hesitant to trespass on their other other domains,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: you know, like they're not going to walk across campus
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: to the the other building.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm anymore.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that needs a change, you know.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had those discussions too with scientists that are
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: super frustrated, especially when they try to get interdisciplinary groups
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: together to study one particular thing, and everyone's resisting because
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: they have their own work that they're working on and
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: they don't want to get involved. And it's just like, guys,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: this is what.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: You're here for.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of scientists. You got to do
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: your job because like you're the only ones that are
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: doing it. There's without you, guys, were fucked. And if
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you're out there relying on old, insufficient data or you know,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: you have this very small data set that shows that
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: there's negative outcomes to the sunlight, and so you just
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: throw the baby out with the bath water, like you're
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: doing the whole field a massive disservice.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: And the other part of it is that science it's
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: sort of very self reinforcing. All it's all grant based essentially,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Like if you're a scientist, you want to do a study,
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: you have to apply for a grant to get the
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: money to do to studied. And there's generally a handful
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: of entities that are like handing out the grant money.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: And it's the old guys waiting to die who are
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: going to approve what they think is the truth that
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: they're going to fund the study that fits with what
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: they already know about the world. So it's this kind
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: of crazy system where the only way you can get
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: money to do a study is if you're already telling
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: them what they know right, right. So it's very difficult
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: to get funded to do something that goes against the
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: grain increasingly so, and that's a problem.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: And so much of it is dependent upon the ego
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: of the people that are at the top of the organization.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Ego is definitely part of it, It's.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: A giant part of it, because if they've based their
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: entire career on telling you one thing that turns out
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: to be incorrect, they're very reluctant to correct themselves.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not just it's very rare to find the
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: individual who's well known in the field and is eager
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: to self correct, you know.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: So if you had any conversations with any of these dermatologists, No,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: but I'd love to not one. That seems crazy. Have
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: you reached out to any of them?
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: I have when I've reached out and I get the
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: boiler plate like we don't want anyone in the sun
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: take your depaills. Doesn't matter well, And the one that
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: really I think has got to change is the skin
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: color question, because fine to to you know, go with
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: the recommendations for avoiding sun for people with fair skin,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: but for people with dark skin who have almost no
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: risk from this from sun and skin cancer and can
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: benefit hugely from like things that will lower blood pressure
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and lower lower cardiovascular disease. Like, it seems like you're
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: not being fair to those people.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Not only that it makes you feel better, which is
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: very important just for sanity.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: I mean that I think that gets underplayed, Like mood
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: and happiness is kind of the whole deal, right, Yeah,
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: And there's just no question that sun exposure makes you happier.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I spent a week with my friend Brian Callen and
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Steve Manila in Alaska and Prince Edward's Island, and it
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: rains there like three hundred and fifty days a year,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: and we got rained on for the entire week. And
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: then when I came back to La, I was driving
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: around and the sun was magnificent.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It felt so good.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: I stood outside, I closed my eyes, I like stretched
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: my arms wide, like I was just taking it all in.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: And I called my friend Steve up and I said, dude,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: because we were in the rain for like a week,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I go, I'm in La right now, in the sun
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: and it feels amazing. I never felt the sun like
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: this before. It's because like my body was saying, you
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: didn't get enough of this for a week. Now take
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: it in and we're gonna reward you with all these
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: amazing endorphins and good feelings. Like if that was a drug,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: that drug that I took, Like if depressed people could
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: take whatever I felt when I was out in the
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: sun after a week in the rain, they would take
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: it every day. They would change the world. Like I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: could feel like this all the time, and it went away.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: You know, it went away because La it's sunny all
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: day long every day, So eventually I got accustomed to it.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: But that feeling that I get that I got after
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the week in the rain and coming back and just
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: be like, ah, it was incredible. It was like a drug,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: an amazing drug, a happy drug.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an awesome drug. And I've felt it for sure,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: you know, I especially like early spring. If I leave
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Vermont and I like have something in La, I'm just like, like,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: why is everyone not just dancing on the streets. Yeah,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: But the problem is Los Angeles they're so used to it. Yeah,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: they're so spoiled. Everyone there so spoiled. Weatherwise, it's the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: perfect weather on Earth. It's incredible, Yeah, especially if you
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: live in like Malibu, where it barely even gets hot,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: so you're dealing with that cool ocean breeze and it's
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: sunny every day, you know, Like.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but how about here, Like do you end
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: up spending a lot of time outside here?
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh yeah, I do. But I'm out towards all
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: the time. I work out outside. I do a lot
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: of farmers carries outside. I practice archery, so I shoot
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: my bow outside every day, and I love it. I
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: feel better. Even when it's hot out. I don't mind
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: because I'm really kind of accustomed to it because a
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: saun I use.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I use the sawn every day.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty religious about it, so my body's really acclimated
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: to heat, so.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really bother me that much.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I just drink bring a big jug of sixty four
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: hours jug of water with ice and electrolytes, and I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: just drink that while I'm out there. So I shoot
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: my bow for an hour and a half, two hours
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: and one hundred and five degrees and I'm fine.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Actually is good, Yeah, like as a kid in Florida,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: you know, we'd play basketball after school for hours or
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: in summer it would be a one hundred and five
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: degrees and then you just kind of turn the hose
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: you take in your mouth for quite a long time,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it feels great.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: It's just you have to make sure you're not dehydrated
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: and you have to make sure you don't burn.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: That's that's kind of all it is.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: All it seems to be. But we do see like
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: truckers that have you ever seen those?
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: You're talking about that famous photo, Yeah, that is a
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: crazy photo.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Crazy photo.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: So what we're referring to is there's a photo of
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: this trucker and the left side of his face from
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: the sun coming in from the window looks like he's
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: twenty years older on his left side than it is
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: on his right side.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: It's like it's like special effects. Somebody melted the left
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: side of his face.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: What's that all about? Yeah, there's the.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Guy that's yeah, literally nuts, Yeah, that's literally nuts.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: Like left side is just sloping off.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Basically, his left side looks like one hundred year old
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: man truck driver face years behind the wheel driving a truck.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Damage typically limited to the left side of the face,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: so it's literally called truck driver face.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: Now, so that that photo in that study got used
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: to like scare the shit out of a lot of people.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Try to keep them out of.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: This, especially people that are vain and don't want that
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: fucked up, wrinkly face. This episode is brought to you
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• 54:10
  Speaker 2: that's crazy. Look at the difference between Wow, that's literally bananas.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: So what they're showing back and forth is, uh, they're
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: just taking the skin from the left side of the
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: face and switching sides so you can see how much
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: damage he's received on that side, the driver side.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so there's a couple of interesting things there.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: One that is shocking. But the question to ask is
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: why doesn't every trucker look like that?
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Like, if that's the problem, why does why did why him? Like,
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: because I've been driving in a car for forty five
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: years and you know, my face is the same on
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: the left and the right kind of hanging in there.
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: But but the other thing is window glass, I think
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: is actually a really interesting problem to talk about. Yeah,
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: because window glass blocks uv B but not you. And
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: there's two different wavelengths of uv The UVB is the
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: super high energy one. UVA is a little bit lower.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: It's kind of on the way to blue. And they
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: used to think back in the day that UVB was
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: the only one that caused skin cancer, and those old
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: sunscreens that we used in the seventies eighties only blocks
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: uv B. Window glass blocks UVB blocks only part of
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: the UVA. So anytime you're driving or you're hanging out
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: in a window in your house, you're getting a bunch
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: of UVA. You're not gonna burn because UVB is the
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: one that causes burning, but you're still going to get
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: a bunch of UVA, which they figured out like in
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: the nineties does cause skin cancer.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: So so sun through the windows, sun through the wis
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: not as good as sun outside.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: It blocks the uv B, but the UVA comes through,
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: but you'll never you'll never have a burn reaction because
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: So you might be getting damaged. Yeah.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: And in the in the US, people get slightly more
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: slightly higher rates of skin cancer on the left side
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: of their body. In the UK, they get slightly higher
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: rates of skin cancer on the right side.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Ah, because they drive in the opposite side of the road.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so window glasses slightly slightly, it's like fifty two
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: forty eight.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: It's not not huge, okay, but it's statistically significant.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Statistically significant.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, huh.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: So do you think it's this guy's particular jeens?
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: That must be something weird about that guy?
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, how many instances of truck driver face.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Do they have?
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: I just googled the condition and it's only him coming.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Up in the photos.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: So this is the one, lady, But I don't she
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: clearly doesn't seem to have the same issue.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of truck drivers that have been doing
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: it for fifty years.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: That's not the same thing.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's not real. Is that real?
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: It's a different thing. She's got something wrong with her jaw. Oh,
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: but it's coming up as the same condition. You know,
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: a lotter oald derma.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Total can so she had some sort of cancer that
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: made her way its way into her jaw.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: But I can't.
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: I would have assumed that more cases would pop up,
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: but it's literally just him.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: So that's the thing. It's the real question is what's
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: up with that dude?
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, interest Dick, that's not the I don't think that's
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: the same guy. No, it doesn't seem like the same person.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: That might be it's hard to say. Yeah, quite a
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: different lightning.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: But so the thing is, if so those sunscreens that
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: were acting kind of like window glass in the seventies
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: and eighties and even into the nineties before we got
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: the broad spectrum sunscreens, they're blocking the UVB, so you
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: weren't going to ever burn. And that's what SPF actually
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: measures is how many more times you can be out
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: in the sun without burning. So if you got it,
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: but it's based totally on UVB. So if you got
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: SPF thirty, in theory, you can spend thirty times as
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: long outside before you start to burn. That's a long time, right,
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: But all that time UVA is just pouring into you.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: And they now know that UVA is the one that
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: probably is most likely to cause melanoma.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Oh that's crazy. Wow.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: So sunscreen now, I use a natural sunscreen when I
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: use it at all, it's the stuff that's like beef
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: tallow based and the zinc in and it's very white
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: and obvious, you know, it's the spray stuff goes on clear.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I can't even tell you have it on. Yeah, but
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: it's very effective, but I'm always like super hesitant. I'm like,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: what's in that stuff that we're going to find out
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: fifteen twenty years from now, Like if it can block
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: the sun. So it's a chemical and you're spraying this
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: chemical on an organ, which is your skin. Yeah, so
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: your your skin's absorbing it. I'm like, what's going on there?
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: And they used to say, oh, no, no, it's not
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: absorbed very much. And then the FDA CDC studies a
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: few years ago and discovered that it's absorbed at very
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: large amounts. Like, yes, it turns up at high doses
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: or higher doses than they would like it to in blood, breast, milk, urine,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: you name it, and.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: What specifically turns up and what's dangerous about it?
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: So they're suspected to be hormone disruptors, all those classic
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: chemical filters like oxybenzone. There isn't there isn't much proof
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: that they're dangerous and the amounts used, but they definitely
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: are absorbed at much higher rates than we thought. And
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: the FDA has refused to approve them as safe, pending
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: more testing, and nobody's done the testing. Oh, but they're
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: about to get phased out anyway, Like just as of
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: a couple months ago, the government changed the rules and
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: is going to let in for the first time in
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: thirty years new ingredients which they've been using in Europe
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: and Asia and Australia for decades and the century. Companies
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: have been asking to use them and haven't been allowed to.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: But now they're finally going to get to use like one.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Of the main ones and one of these ingredients.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: So it's called like Demo trisonol or something. And there's
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: another one that you see in Europe called like Mexicil
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: four hundred, but they're way better. Like basically, US sunscreens
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: are our generation behind everyone else because in the US
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: sun screens are regulated as over the counter drugs.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: That much isn't a yeahmore is a highly effective broad
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: spectrum UV filtered blocks both UVA n UVB proved by
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: FDAs over the counter sunscreen ingredient in June of twenty
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: twenty six.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, so this must happen.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, celebrated for being highly photo stable, doesn't break down
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: the sun transparent on the skin without leaving a white
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: cast and gentle on sensitive skin. So this is RFK
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: junior stuff.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this one looks really good.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: So this other stuff that was has been in there,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: why didn't it get examined? If Europe and Asia and
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: all these other places we're using these different they say
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: for versions.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they all bailed on it long ago because it
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: was all we had.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: And that drives me crazy.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, so it's because the FDA. So in the US,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: sunscreens are regulated as drugs counter drugs, so you have
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: to do all this safety testing if you want to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: get a new ingredient, and everywhere else they're just cosmetics,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: so you can use kind of whatever you want with
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: more minimal safety testing. So the companies wanted to use
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: the stuff in the US forever, but the FDA said, sure,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: just you know, do the testing. But they didn't want
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: to do it. Was too expensive to do the testing,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: They have to test it on animals, they didn't want
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: to get the blowback on that. There are a bunch
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: of reasons that they weren't willing to do it. Also,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: I think they're a little scared of what they might find.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: So anyway, so our sunscreens have not been nearly as
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: good as what's used elsewhere, both in terms of performance
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: and like maybe safety suspicions, so that that's going to change.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: By the end of this year, it's going to get better.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Well, that's good.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Are they with the traditional sunscreen ingredients that we used
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: to use? Is there any negative health consequences of using
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: them that they've shown, Like, is there any diseases that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: occur more readily or more frequently.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: Not that have been proven. There's like toxicologists are a
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: little suspicious about some of them, Like they've definitely been
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: shown to mess up coral right, like people are reefs.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things they found after COVID. Right,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: they used to think they used to think that it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: was the warming of the environment. This was one of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: the things that climate change people used to say, the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: climate changes was destroying the coral reefs. And then it
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: turns out acctually it's all these people that have sunscreen
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: all over their body and they jump in the ocean
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: and they're essentially poisoning the reef.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's all the above, I'm pretty sure,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: but yeah, the sunscreen at that kind of concentration, if
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: you got a you know, a bazillion starklers in the water,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: can definitely mess up the carl.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: It wasn't There some sort of a study that examined
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: what happened to the reef after COVID. There was one
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: particular reef that was in this highly visited area where
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: people jump in, and they showed a massive increase in
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: the reef after COVID.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, well, why banned use of those sunscreen? A
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: bunch of places banned and those that styles unscreen.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: But the uh, but they don't really check your bags though. Yeah,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean when they say banned, Like
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: people are gonna take it anyway, But.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: It doesn't look like I don't think it has a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: much impact on us unless you're using a ton of it,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: which of course now some people are.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: So it's not great for you, but it's not the worst.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: There's been a bunch of studies that just looked at
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: like lifespan and sunscreen doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: like positive or negative on lifespan.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: M So it just might have some sort of an
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: impact on hormonal function.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it could well disruption andocrine disruption. There's a guy
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: named Graham Peasley at Notre Dame who found that many,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: many cosmetic products of all kinds are actually contaminated with
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: forever chemicals. And it's even if they don't have it
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: on the ingredients, Like anything that's like water resistant or
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: super smooth is quite possibly going to have forever chemicals
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: in it. And some of it is actually coming from
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: the plastic containers because those get they basically get like
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: fluorinated with this like flooring gas before they get anything
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: in them, which is supposed to make them like a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: little smoother the inside of the containers. But it turns
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: out that actually leaks forever chemicals into the product whatever's
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: in there.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: H that's what you found.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean this is a problem
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: with hot coffee when you're drinking it out.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Of a paper cup, very similar. Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't realize, like the paper cup is not
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: capable of keeping that liquid. Yeah, it would turn to mush.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: And the reason why it doesn't turn to mush just
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: because there's essentially a condom like around the inside of
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: the coffee cup. And you know, Paul Saladino broke a
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: coffee cup down to show what it looks like on
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: the inside, and you're like, oh no, you're pouring hot
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: liquid into plastic, which you're never supposed to do.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: And it's also like.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Most coffee machines, like a giant percentage of coffee machines
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: have just plastic everywhere.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: I got rid of mine.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: That's why we use French press at the studio and
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I use that at home too, and I have one
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: of those little arrow presses to make an individual cup
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: of coffee. It's like, the plastic is a real problem,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: and heating it is terrible. We know that about water bottles,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Like you're never supposed to drink out of a water
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: bottle that you leave in the hot sun in your car.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: So now picture that bottle sunscreen that's sitting in your
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: car right cooking and leeching into the the material.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Yuck. Yeah, not good.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: People don't think of the skin as an organ. And
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I was explaining to a friend of mine the other
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: day he was using hand wash, that fucking hand sanitizer stuff,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, man, I don't think that's good for you.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think if you want to wash your hands,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: you should just use soap and water. And then I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: read this article about it, like, oh, yeah, that's a
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: toxic chemical hand sanitizer. When you're using it every day,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: you're essentially exposing your skin, your organ to this, like
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: what exactly is in hand sanitizer? And is it bad
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: for you? Because I remember this article, but I just
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: like went over the headline and briefly started reading it,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: and then I had to do something and I put
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: a bookmark to it that was going to go back
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: to it later, and I never did.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, I thought you to say, like something happened to
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: the bookmark.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, wrong, No, I just never went back
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: to it. But I remember during the COVID times, everybody
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: was just like hand sanitizer everywhere. I'm like, I just
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: don't think that can be good for you.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: You mean anything that's antibiotic, right, and that's killing biological life.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: Probably you want to be at least a little bit hesitant.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: With mostly alcohol, all even alcohol going through your skin
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: like that, uh isoprople alcohol sometimes use instead of or
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: with ethanol similar levels. And then this word benzal canoonium
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: chloride in many alcohol free products. All right, but see
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: if you can find articles on the dangers of using
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: hand sanitizer, because this is what I had read briefly.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Ah, just say overuse it.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: They're gonna fuck up your skin biome but I don't.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it's saying. Overused.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: I know that.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: I know guy's got O c D and he's you know,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: hypochondriact a little bit, and he uses hand sanitizer all
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: the times. Kind of crazy. And uh, a friend of mine,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: without knowing, went to look at his house because his
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: house was for sale. And he's looking at the house,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: he's like, that was a very nice house. And he
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: opens up a closet and one of the closets was
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: filled with hand sanitizer and he got so freaked out
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: he didn't want to live in the house anymore. He's like,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want to buy this house. Like this guy
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: like whatever weird thing he's possessed with that he needs
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: fifty thousand fucking bottles.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Of hand sanitizer.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: Issues are just laughic overuse. And then don't not use
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: it on your hands obviously, don't breathe it, don't drink it, right.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Only use it on your hands.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, by Jamie's right on the skin biome. Skin biomes
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: staring out to be really important, Like right, there's you know,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: they call it the gut. Skin act exis where your
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: skin microbiome and your gut microbiome are like chatting all
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: the time, and you can change the composition of your
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: skin microbiome based on all kinds of stuff like products,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: sun exposure, you know, everything you do. Probiotics, probiotics.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, in the jiu jitsu world in the early
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: two thousands, people started really getting into probiotics. They started
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: really getting into acidophilas, yogurt, kimchi, fermented vegetables and stuff
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: like that just to prevent skin issues. Interesting because jiu jitsu,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: because you're you're getting scratched up and you're rolling around
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of infections and a lot of
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: people get not just infections like staff infection, but they
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: also get ringworm and a bunch of stuff like that.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: And so some people started using antibacterial soap, and the
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: problem with that is it just nukes all the good
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: flora of your skin. So then there's a company called
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Defense Soap and they developed a soap specifically for grapplers,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and this soap has tea tree oil and eucalyptus and
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: it's very healthy for the skin, so it promotes healthy
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: gut flora, but it does kill all the cooties. It
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: kills all the matte cooties.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's I think that's basically what you want.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: Like that microbiome, it can take a lot of natural
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: you know, abuse, it's there it you know, it naturally
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: lives on skin, so it's usually getting like roughed up
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: by the world. Yeah, two chemicals that are too strong
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: can take it out.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: And the gut flora is important as well. It was
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: like you got to think of the whole thing as
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: one sort of ecosystem, your whole body. It all works together.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: And if your gut biome is all fucked up and
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: you don't have healthy gut flora, it can affect all
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: sorts of different issues.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it shows up on the skin for sure.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: That's well known.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: So when you first started getting pushback against this, did
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: were you surprised to upset?
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: You? Like, what did it feel like to get attacked
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: by dermatologists?
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: I am naturally conflict a verse, right, I was kind
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: of do I even want to talk about this? But
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: it was such interesting information one that was important, so
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: I wanted to it started. I wrote an article for
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: Outside back in like twenty eighteen, and I titled it
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: is sunscreened the New margin, Right, woh so right there,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: that's pushing buttons. Yeah, I probably you know in retrospect,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: don't push as many buttons today. I just pointed the data.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: You just didn't like it, didn't like the response.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean it got a massive it went truly
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: you know, viral as they used to say, but it
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: actually detracted. Like now, I think I think those old
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: sunscreens really were like margarine detrimental, like the ones that
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: only blocked VB. So I think I kind of got
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: it right. But also it's like the title detracted from
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: the information in the article in.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: A sense, but why because margin sucks.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Margin sucks. Those old sunscreens did suck. The new sunscreens are,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: They're fine.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: But so it's a good comparison.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: It turns out to have been. Yeah, like the more
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: we learn about those old sunscreens, the more it looks
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: like a sort of like a catastrophic mistake that then
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: got fixed. But but yeah, so that like I so
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: now the books is out. Suddenly I've got all these
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: like beauty magazines contacting me, and they have this image
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: of me as like you know, the unibomber, like hanging out,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: hanging out in my cabin and firing off these missives.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, from a beauty magazine.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: They were nervous to talk to me because they thought
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: I was going to be you know, a kook, a kook. Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: So the first start, so those is sunscreen the new margarine.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: So that was the first one. And what was the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: response to that? So, like, would do you remember the
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: first like really negative response and how you felt about it?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so there's official letter from the the AAD. Uh, like,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: you know, we and you know they're very they're very polite,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: but they're like, here, we we we think this is misrepresenting,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: you know, the information, and this is and we think
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: this is dangerous. If you're telling people that they might
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: benefit from more sunlight, that's dangerous. So that's probably And
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: then you know, when that came in, I was like,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: so that needs to change. If if we have in
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: our heads that exposure to any sunshine is dangerous, we
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: you know, we're not seeing the forest for the trees.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: We've lost the thread on this one. So then so
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: I did a much of other article. I did one
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: an article that focused specifically on the skin color issue,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: like do people of color do we need to stop
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: telling people of color that they need to protect themselves
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: from the sun. And then I did a couple more
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: recently for the Atlantic just on like what should recommendations,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: How do we can we do recommendations that are not
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: one size fits all.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Well, skin color in particular is one of the best
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: signs of adaptation to environment. I mean, that's how human
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: beings were able to get vitamin D from the sun
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: in a place like Scotland. When people moved there, they
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: got pale as shit, you know, makes sense.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can track it is like the gradations
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: of lightning go with that move northward, so you could
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: tell like white skin is like a desperate attempt to
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: get enough light in a you know, screwy northern environment.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: But when those people that have ancestors from that screwy
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: northern environment moved to California or Arizona, Australia. Yeah, and
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Australia is real bad, right because there's all the people
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: that use hairspray in the eighties, they cause fucking giant
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: hole in the ozone layer over Australia.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, essentially, Yeah, Australia.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: When I was there, they have these signs on buses,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: like these warnings that show skin cancer, like these horrible
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: lesions on people's faces and stuff, and it's just this
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: warning to wear sunscreen and checked yourself.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: They're right for that, Like that's the textbook case where
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: you've got a horrible mismatch between the population and the place,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: like super super high level of the sunshine. In Australia, weko
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: zone like redheads from Scotland because they are trying to
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: deal so their skin cancer rais are literally like two
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: or three times what they are anywhere else in the world.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: Wow, Now, how much of that is because of the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: skin color of the general Australian population other than the
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: indigenous people, And how much of it is because the ozone.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: So those zone is healing itself slowly, We're getting there,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: so that's probably less of an issue now. It's really
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: it's a really fair skin population in a like super bright,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: intense environment, so they do need to worry about it.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: But the problem is the rest of the world has
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: kind of set its like rules about sun exposure based
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: on Australia.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: What's interesting also about Australia is like I wonder how
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: long it takes for human adaptation to start to show itself,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Like do you think like in one hundred thousand years
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: from now, people that live in Australia will be dark.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: Well, David Reich did that great episode with you, right,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: did you have David Reik on? David Reich, he's the
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: Harvard Ancient DNA guy, did we No? So he so
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: he just came out with a new study like too much.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: So many people imber I can't do.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: It's like if I didn't hear here, what I hear Anyway,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: it just uh, that movement started a few thousand years ago. Suddenly,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: like the that pale redhead gene came out of nowhere
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: and like skyrocketed. So it can change pretty quickly when
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: the environmental factors changed.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Really, that's that's only a few thousand years old.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: The red headed gene. Yeah yeah, I mean it was
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: kind of like lingering quietly in the background.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: And then like maybe that's why gingers get so much
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: hate because they're just brand new.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: They are they are like the next new thing. But yeah,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: four or five thousand years ago it suddenly explodes in popularity,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: but in a very particular place in northern Europe.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Oh and most likely as a result to the environment.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for one hundred percent.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Wow, So I wonder how long it's going to take.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: I wonder if we could go into the future and
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: if the same population lives in Australia.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: Now, well, I accept here's the weird thing, Like, so
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: Australians versus UK, right, similar genetics, Australia super high rates
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: of skin cancer because of that sun environment, but also
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: way better lifespan than in the UK. Really, so skin
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: cancer is a factor, but that sunlight is actually benefiting
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: Australian's more than it's hurting them compared to the UK.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: Hmm.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: I wonder if it's a I wonder if that's a
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: healthy user bias as well, because one of the things
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: about Australia is a lot of outdoor activities. A lot
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: of people are doing stuff outside, yeah, and a lot
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: of activity period.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: And that could be a factor. And actually that's one
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: thing I come you know, come down to in the
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: book is it's really hard to disentangle all of these factors.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: But what's really obvious is just outside good, too much
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: inside bad? Yeah, So whatever, Like you don't even have
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: to like break it down too much more outside covered up,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: whatever you want, it is probably gonna be good for you.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: One of the things a friend of mine has. The
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: doctor said that he when he was working in New
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: York City in the winter time, he would find people
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: with undetectable levels of vitamin D. Yeah, and he said
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: it was a particular problem with people with darker skin,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: because if you have darker skin, you're gonna get less
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: vitamin D from the sun whatever exposure you do get.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: And then these people are all indoors all the time.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really bad formula. Like, yeah, if you
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: have dark skin, you need five to time five to
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: ten times as much sunlight to make the same amount
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: of vitamin D. So you're really if you have really
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: dark skin, you're kind of designed for a very bright,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: you know, tropical environment.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Where you're where you're outside all the time.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: Outside all the time. You can handle twelve hours a
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: day of sunshine and in fact you're gonna benefit from it.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: You get moved to a really dark environment, that's not
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: going to be good for you, so you probably need
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: to compensate in other ways.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: It's going to be very interesting when genetic engineering reaches
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: a level where we can turn those things on and
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: off in people, and how do people react to fair
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: skinned people all of a sudden getting.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: Dark, like like you know, like, well, we.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: Are one race. We are We're the human race. There's
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: a bunch of different ancestors where people came from different areas,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: where they adapted to different environments. But the reality is
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: we're just human beings and we all started in Ethiopia
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: and we spread out and that's just what we are.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: We are the result of whatever environment our ancestors evolved in.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And with with skin tone, it's clearly like
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: very very specific reactions to that environment and try and
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: figure out what's best in each situation.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: But there's so much racial ide identity that's tired, that's
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: tied to these characteristics of your appearance and where your
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: ancestors are from. And it's going to be very weird
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: if all of a sudden, you could, like people get
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: like dark, thick, curly hair and there used to be gingers.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: I wonder how people get to react to that.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's coming right, right.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: It's coming. Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I just wonder how many people are going to be
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: claiming cultural or racial appropriation with people just deciding to
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: have a healthier skin tone that protects him from the sun.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: I say, where, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, like that guy with the melanotan.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder if anybody got mad at.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: Him, right right, like like what are you supposed to
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: look like?
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What are you supposed to look like? Yeah? Yeah.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: There was a lady that was on a television show
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: once that was turning herself black. It was in the UK,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: and this lady looked she looked like she had other issues,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: said giant breast implant. She looked like a kook a
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of plastic surgery. But she was dark as a date.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: Like that lady. That's a white lady. So that's what
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: she used to look like. And she's getting her booms
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: bigger and bigger. She wants them bigger, and so look
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: she keeps getting Maybe that's her, that's her. So what
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: did she do via intense use of tanning injections? Yeah,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: so she's she's the ultimate melanitan hero.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: I mean that guy that lady got like cameroon dark, Like,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: look at that photo again, go back to that video,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: like that's crazy, that's crazy.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe you're Australia, it works for you.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: Uh maybe well it would right, it would protect because
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: it is melanin, but obviously she's got she got other
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: things going on.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, at some point you might might might have
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: too much. Well, so here's the funny thing about melanin
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: as well, Like, so it's made by our melanocytes, which
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: are what can become melanoma if they get screwed up,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: and those are in the very bottom of the epidermis,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: the outer layer of the skin. And it's an incredibly
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: good absorber of UV, better than anything we've come up with.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: It's almost perfect at it. But what you want when
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: your skin gets hit with sunlight that melanin that's just
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: been produced is at the bottom of the epidermis where
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: the melanocytes are, so it has to migrate to the
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: surface and then it kind of acts like little umbrellas,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: like it'll like cover the nucleus of the cell and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: protect it. So you get these little like umbrellas, a
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: line of umbrellas on the very top of your epidermis.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: But it has to migrate up because of sunlight. If
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: melanin is lower in your skin, then it's going to
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: absorb all that radiation farther down, and actually it can
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: cause more for your radicals deeper in the skin.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: And what would cause it to be lower.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: So it starts low and it only goes up in
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: response to sunlight. So if you're never ever in the
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: sun and you suddenly go out and get hit by
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: a bunch of sunlight, your melon's gonna be down too
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: low and can actually create for you. It can exacerbate
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: the problem.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: So this lady might be exacerbating the problem if he's
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: just just getting the melanins that way.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I don't know, because I don't know about
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: this specifically, but you probably Yeah, you don't want to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: just be like messing around with melanin like except that
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: she is.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's interesting because like the milanoitan stuff, I
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: have heard about it before and I never really looked
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: into it. But the idea kind of makes sense that
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: if you can make your body produce more melanin, that
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: would protect yourself. But I didn't realize that it has
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: to be melanin from sun exposure.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: You want it in the right place.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: Could both things work? Could you do it that way
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: with sun exposure increase increase both and would it would
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: it give some sort of a benefit to have a
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: higher level of melanin that could eventually get to the
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: surface of the skin.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: Does that make any sense?
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: You're above my pay grade now, like I think you
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: might be above everybody's pay grade. I don't. I don't
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: know if anyone has looked at that.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: They seem it seems like something to look into though.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: If we know that there's a benefit to having melanin.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it may be interesting, But I think the stuff's
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: new enough that there probably hasn't been a ton of
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: research on it.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: So what does a pale person do? What does the
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: old pasty white do?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: So full pasty white, like really pale.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like my friend, I have a friend is my
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: my daughter said he's white and I said she was
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: really little and I go, yeah, she goes, no, no, no,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: he's white like paper.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, you do have to be really careful.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: You're not going to tay on that much. You just
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: don't make that much melanin.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: Can that change over time? Can they like slowly expose
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: themselves to the sunlight like five minutes a day and
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: just ramp it up?
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: Depend if it depends on your genetics. If you're like
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: a full on ginger like true redhead, then you have
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: a type of melanin called feo melanin, not you melanin,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: which is what everybody else has, and feo melanin just
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: does not do a good job of starving sunlight.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: Oh no, so you use no hope for gingers.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: There's no hope for gingers in terms of sun exposure.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: Damn.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: The hope is just you know, avoid that midday sun
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: that's on UV. Get the morning and like the sunrise
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: and sunset stuff that doesn't have the UV in it.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, so they can benefit from sun exposure, but they
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: can't have like full on outdoor sun exposure.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're the ones who need to be really careful.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: So for those people, sunscreens are commanded.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or or just cover up even I think better.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: You know how many other people are working on this stuff,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: and is everybody sort of an agreement with the data
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: the people that are examining it.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a ton of sciences coming out, but
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: it's it's early days for sure.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: Doesn't it seem crazy that sun and our reaction to
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: sun is unknown or at least poorly studied.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but it's amazing how many things
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: in medicine, you know, you dive into the research and
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: you dig down a little, and you realize that we're
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: just kind of guessing still on many levels, Like it's
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: early days for a lot of this stuff.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: Well certainly for like stuff that they use for antidepressants.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Sun exposure is competitive with
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: antidepressants in terms of lifting depression.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: Isn't that nuts? And you know it's way better exercise. Yeah,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: many times better than any known antidepressants, regular exercise, I.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: Mean exercise number one for everything.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 5: Ginger people with melow the peptide here, mm hmm, seeing
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 5: if you post.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: About it changing their hair color?
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Interesting and what yeah, click on that.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess it just takes it to the reddit.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 4: It's just going to show YouTube video here.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 5: But there's multiple change his hair color, other posts about it.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: Whoa, and there's a I was just seeing.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: What if that would work with people that are old,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: that have like white hair, that one hair like a melow.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: Nine two page says like how it can affect hair color.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: No, I read through real quick at this is not
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 4: the best website.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: Isn't it weird that women with red hair are hot
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: and men with red hair are not. It's very, very
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: weird because women with red hair are considered very attractive.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this one's this guy's got bright tan.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, but the people that take it that one guy
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: is he like a one of one or a change
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: his hair color.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 4: So that just like I said, so this website.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: Click on that, click on the video. Let's watch it
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: for a couple of seconds. See what this guy's showing.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: So this is him before and this is him now.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: His eyebrow and his beard colors changed.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 5: Also we clicked on the it might not even be him.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: He could be reporting the video about someone else too.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 6: So before I got all gray and.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: My hair's got it looks pretty good.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, animal lying by the side.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Of the road.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 6: Gray Actually used to be ginger. Now, I was bullied
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 6: a lot as a kid because I was ginger. I
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 6: was weird, and I was chubby. That's the winning trio
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 6: for being infections from this going through a lot of
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 6: changes up here down there, you know, the stuff that
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 6: happens during purity. So I didn't immediately notice that my
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 6: hair had gotten much darker. It was actually all the
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 6: people asking me what the hell I had done to
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 6: my hairline. You know, on this picture it's probably much clearer.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 6: That's a picture of me and my brother. We have
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 6: the sametics in regards of skin color and the color
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 6: of her hair. And as you can see, my hair
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 6: is not completely different from his views to have the
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: same skin and the same hair, especially the color. Now,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 6: this is only from using one vial of melanutan two
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 6: in the span of a year, even more than a year,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 6: and it was at low dosages. But with our genetics
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 6: of big tall white ginger Belgian gingers, it completely changed
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 6: the color of my hair and my skin and the
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 6: effects were very strong.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: So the effects are permanent. So he still has dark hair.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting is that in the beginning he had
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: gray hair.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: It seems older obviously, right.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: Right, but he had gray hair he was showing and
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: his hair is not gray anymore.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: Right, I mean gray gray, yeah, gray and ginger gray.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: As a loss of melony like melanins would make your
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: hair dark as well as your skin dark. So he's
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: resupplied his melonin for his hair as well.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: It seems like that seems kind of nuts.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: He said, one vial for a year, don't even all
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: over the.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: Year, right, So for a year, so his skin has
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: gotten pale again, but his hair is permanently dark. So
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: that's what he used to look like. He had red hair,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: he had a red beard, and he had gray hair.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: His hair had gone gray, and now his hair is dark.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: I gotta know if this guy's full of shit.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's again.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 4: It's like there's one, only one person saying.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the problem. It's like you don't know what
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: you're looking at. But that's crazy, but it is.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, melon is the pigment for all of it.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: Put that in.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Does melo melowtonan?
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: How does it say it? How do you say it?
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Melano melonotan? Does melanotan have an effect on hair color?
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Put that into perplexity? See what they say?
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what does it saying?
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Because I know a lot of people with gray hair.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: That bums them out and they dye it and ship
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: and that can't be good for you. You're putting fucking dye.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: In your hair.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: I'm stuck with the gray hair.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: I think, oh mine would be gray if I had hair.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: It's all gray in my beard. Now it's gray. I'm
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: gonna try it. I'm gonna try some mellow tannan and
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: see if I get dangerous boners. Melana tan does not
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: have good human evidence of changing scalp or body hair color.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Its main effect is on skin tanning and freckling, not
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: on turning hair darker or lighter. But how's that guy?
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's like a just a weird case.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just gotta be a hormone dependent.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: What about the lady with the giant boobs?
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 5: She had dark hair too, she's saying when I was
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 5: looking for her thing of was so she went through
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 5: a permanent tanning process. So I don't know she would
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 5: extreme dosages. But show her Instagram account is a mess.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 5: If it's even hers, it's the one that Google showed me.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: What's what's the erection connection? I don't understand how you know?
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, erection connection.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: I have heard that though actually bring them from waste
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: to well. The local wellness clinic was telling me about
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: that that some people have crazy erections because of milanatan. Yeah,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: like what how? And some people don't like that. One
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: guy that had taken it, he said, didn't affect him
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: that way, but maybe.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's broken.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: Does it say anything about melanaitan causes bonus? Okay, it
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: can increase libido and trigger erections in some men, but
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: it's not approved for well, I know it's not approved.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: How does it affect It stimulates milano cortin Milano cortin
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: receptors in the brain which are involved in sexual arousal
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: and erection control, not just tanning controlled tiles controlled trot gesz.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: I can't talk today.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: Subcutaneous milanaitan two caused erections in most men with a
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: rectile dysfunction, often without sexual stimulation. Same studies found increased
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: sexual desire in a majority of doses compared with placebo. Hmm, interesting.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: I wonder what the connection is.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: That it's the milana court and like you said that
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: the M four r up there, so yeah, MC one
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: r is the gene for that could determines whether you've
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: got the red hair.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: This Common side effects were yawning, nausea, yawning and stretching,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: flushing with decreased appetite. Some participants had severe nausea at
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: higher doses.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: Yawning and sexual desire is an interesting combination.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's weird. Yeah I'm really horny, but I'm too
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: tired of doing anything about.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 5: Hypoactive sexual desire for pre menopausal women.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: Also shows a rectogengenic I like that word arect dogenic
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: effects in men with ed in, including those who fail
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: pd E five inhibitors. One of that was a pd
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: E five inhibitor. Interesting, someone should someone out there with
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: gray hair should give it a go find out that's up.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: Doesn't sound like other than dealing with boners. Doesn't seem
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: like there's any real problems. I said, I keep going
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: back to this you getting attacked thing, and I don't
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: understand how someone could attack you with the data that
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: you're showing, because like it's you're not making any dangerous
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: or you know, any claims or any You're not advising
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: people do anything that's reckless.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean I purposefully have sort of, I
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: really haven't. I basically tell people to figure it out
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: for themselves, right, But it's only small amounts of sun
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: exposure that seem to be necessary to get most of
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: the benefits. Like the jump isn't going from zero to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: some it's you don't you don't need it a lot.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: Nobody really needs a lot unless you have a really
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: dark skin, then you can probably get away with a lot.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: So yeah, just a little bit of sun exposure doesn't
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 3: seem like a crazy recommendation. But it's just because the
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: messaging has been sort of so extreme and unyielding, like
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: they've worked for so hard to sort of scare people
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: away from any sun exposure that I think backing that
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: up a little bit is sort of uncomfortable.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I understand, But I mean, isn't history filled
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: with new discoveries and changing courses?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it'll change, But one it's gonna
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: be funeral out of time. Yeah, it's gonna be ugly
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: all the way.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: When you do this kind of work, Like, have you
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: discovered any other things that people thought were unhealthy that
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: turned out to actually probably be good for you at
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: least affuse correctly.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a good question. So the one, like
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: the metaphor that I think we're all familiar with and
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: that I think maps pretty perfectly here is diet and fat.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 3: Right like twenty, you know, twenty five years ago, Gary
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: Tobbs does that article in the New York Times magazine,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: what a fat Doesn't make you fat? And we were
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: still back in that era of you know, carbs cut
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: all the fat out of your diet, Carbs are good
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: for you. Margin, right, the margin era. They the top
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: experts got it one hundred percent wrong back then, and
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: when they got called on it by like you know,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: Tobbs and others, Nina Tysles. You guys have had ninon.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: I've had tobs on as well.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, you know, they fought hard and they
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: were totally wrong and we now, you know, we've we've flipped.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: But it took a long time, and you know, there
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: was a little little blood in the water during that process.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: I was in the early days of that and people
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: were just warning me about my cholesterol.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: What about your cholesterol. Yeah.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: What's really interesting is during the heart of that when
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: I you know, I had a lot of meat. My
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: diets mostly meat, and I went to the doctor and
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I got all my levels checked and he said, are
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: you on some anti cholesterol medication? I said, no, why
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: And he goes, you're very low cholesterol.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Interesting, it's weird.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: I go, dude, if you saw my diet, my diets
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: like mostly meat and eggs and bacon, that's like a
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: giant percentage of my diet.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: I thought that was really interesting.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: I think I mean, yeah, I think the Evans is
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 3: pretty good. Like for Keto, I think it's pretty strosstality,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: you know, I think is pretty much spot on and
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: a lot of this stuff. But so yeah, so that
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 3: like the the ultimate experts all said that was going
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: to kill you, you know, Atkins back in the day,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: and they were all completely wrong. So there's a you know,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: there's a long track record of the pros being wrong
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: I think, on a lot of things. But that's a
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: really good example, and people can wrap their heads around
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: that one because we now, I think a lot of
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: people understand that low carb really works well for them.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: I mean they completely flip the food pyramid.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 3: Right, which was a beautiful thing to do and I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: can't believe it happened so fast.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: Well, also with very little pushback. It's kind of interesting
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: because the evidence had already compounded to the fact that listen,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: for sure, margarine is not a good thing.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: It's not a good substance.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: But also that all these healthy fats that you're getting
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: from milk, that you're getting from eggs. Eggs in particular,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: we've been told the eggs are bad for you, the
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: cholesterol and eggs.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: Eggs. You could live off just.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: Eggs, Yeah, probably the perfect food.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like eggs are fantastic. I always tell my friends
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: that are vegans. I was like, listen, man, Just get
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: some chickens and they're your pets, and they give you
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: free food. It's like I have sixteen chickens now and
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: I get eggs every day. And these chickens are pets.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Like I go, hey, ladies, you know, I feed them,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: I throw the worms down. They're not afraid of me.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: They listen to me. When I open the door, they
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: come running out and they run it around the yard.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: It's like a great relationship. You get free food, you
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: take care of them, you feed them, and they eat
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: all the bugs in your yard, and you get these delicious,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: healthy eggs.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: From them with those beautiful orange yet.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you're worried about if it's an ethical thing,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: you don't want animal cruelty, and good for you. That's
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: a wonderful way to live, but you are sacrificing your
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: health by not eating pasture raised eggs. Just get the
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: real ones, not the bullshit ones, the real ones. Unfortunately
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: they're tricking people.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: Some companies have been exposed for feeding their chickens turmeric.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: They feed them curcumin and turmeric, and they make it
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: because it makes their eggs a darker, more attractive oak.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: I know, right, well, it's like it's it's so screwy,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: so so bizarrely backwards it is.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: But isn't turmeric good for you? And wouldn't turmeric that
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: you're getting from those eggs also be.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: Good for you?
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it can't hurt, I mean, right, So it's.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: Not like they're getting them food dye. So it's you
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: know what I mean.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, you're getting these darker eggs because
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: people like that, and the darker eggs come from turmeric
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: or turmeric. But yeah, still you're getting turmeric then, aren't
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: you in that how it works?
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's fine, But I think the chicken I
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 3: think like it's the bugs that sometimes help turn them, aren't. Yeah,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: we get we get eggs from our neighbor like Vermont everybody, right,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: there's chickens like running around the road everywhere, and yeah,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: they're delicious. Yeah, you can tell that they're getting it
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: from the bugs and the greens and hmm yeah.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: And it's super healthy. I mean, but that that color
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: of things is also why they dye farm raised salmon,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: which is really gross. So salmon are getting that from
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: bugs in particular.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, little arthropods. Yeah, like miniature shrimp kind of.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why they have the wonderful looking pink skin
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: that yeah, orange pink skin.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: So in that case, the dye is maybe a little
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: more suspect.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the dye is very suspect because it's like,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: you know, these farm raised salmon, they have pale skin
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: because they're eating bullshit.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. Yeah.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Are there any other things that you've stumbled across that
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: turned out to be good for you that people were
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: averse to?
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: I'm still curious about alcohol. You know how everything is
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: flipped on alcohol, Like first it was like drink or
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: two a day is good for you, and then suddenly
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: they flipped like a year or two ago and say
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: any amount of alcohol is bad for you. I looked
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: at I looked at into those studies, and it seems
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: like the takeaway really should have been, you know, modern
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 3: drinking doesn't do much of anything to you, Like maybe
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: it makes is slightly good for you or slightly bad
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: for you, but for like a drink a day or
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: like one to two a day, I didn't seem to
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: have a whole lot of impact on mortality.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: At all, and also probably reduces a little bit of
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: stress right, You're got a little bit of social anxiety,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: and that alone is really beneficial, Like how do you feel, like,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: are you happy or are you stressed out? Sometimes a
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: drink or two you like, ah, fuck it, we're fine.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: Everything's good. Like that alone has benefits, like what it
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: does to your mood, that it's a social lubricant. It
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: allows you to like maybe laugh a little bit more,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: have a little bit more fun.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: Totally, which is why I can't give it up, Like
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 3: that social environment is a really nice environment to be in,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: you know, and if you know, a couple of beers
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: helps make that happen, it's a good thing.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: I gave it up for about eight months. I completely
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: problem is I own a comedy club and I was
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: there a lot, and so everybody's like, have.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: A drink, have a drink, let's do shots.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: And then next thing you know, you I was in
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: the gym the next day feeling like shit. I got
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: tired of doing that to myself, and so I said,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna stop drinking. Not because I'm an alcoholic.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: Wasn't hard to stop. It was super easy. I just
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: stopped and then I started feeling way better. I was like, God,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: why was I drinking for so long?
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: It was just so bad.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: And then out to dinner with my wife had a margarita,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: like eight months later, I'm like, let's have a drink.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: She wasn't drinking either. I'm like, let's have a drink,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: and like this is nice.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: So now I limit myself. I just I won't have
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: more than like two drinks. Two drinks is kind of
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: my map. But two drinks is right. Two drinks is
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: like we as long as you don't have to drive,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: you're not going anywhere.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: If I go to the club, I'm there for hours. Yeah,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: completely sober. After it's all over, it's like I wake
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: up in the morning, I don't feel like shit, doesn't
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: seem to be affecting my workouts. However, if you wear
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: a whoop or an Ora ring or one of those
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: tracking devices, you will notice in your sleep and your recovery.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: You're not se as well.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: You don't sleep as well, you don't get the same
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: deep sleep I can tell. Yeah, just one glass of
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: wine can fuck you up a little bit.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that for me that hit in middle age,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 3: Like before that wasn't a problem, but now, yeah, like
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: two drinks two does seem to be the cutoff where
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: you know, life functions normally still, but yeah, the sleep's
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: not as restorative.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Somehow, somehow.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: But I wonder if it's the timing of when you're drinking.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if you have like a glass of
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: wine at dinner at like six o'clock, but you don't
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: go to bed till midnight, I wonder then your body
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: has a chance to process it and then you're okay.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 3: Well that Italian style, right, Like I feel like the
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: Mediterranean lifestyle they got this pretty much nailed down, like
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: two thousand years ago, right, it seems to work pretty well.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: Which also brings us back to food, right, because the
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: way they eat is so it's so interesting how thin
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: they are and yet they eat mostly carbs.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: I know, I know something's different there.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: A lot's different, and we know what it is now.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: We know that there's a lot of additives and preservatives.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: And also like they don't use glyphyssate and they have
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: heirloom wheat, so they have wheat that hasn't been optimized
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: to have a higher yield, so it doesn't have as
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: much complex wheat glutens. And there's a lot of issues
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: with our food unfortunately, and if you eat American bread,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the bromine, all the different additives, all the
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: shit that we put in our food. That's so disturbing.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: Whenever I go to Italy, I'm so angry that when
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: I come back home, I can't have food like this,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: Like you have to seek it out. You have to
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: go to like certain restaurants that only use like Italian flower.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you look at those Mediterranean cultures
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: and it just works for them. And yeah, like you say,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: it's you can't explain it in terms of like macro
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: nutrients or anything like that, Like it's something there's something
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: like synergistic about that lifestyle. I do actually think light
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 3: is part of it too, Like they got great light there.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: Yep, they have great light, especially like Malfy Coast those people. Yeah,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: but the other thing is also stress. They're they're not
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: as career focused. They're more family oriented, very tight knit
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: family groups. They eat dinner together. There's a lot of laughing,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of drinking wine. A lot of them smoke cigarettes.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: You over there, like cigarettes never went out of style
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: over there. They're all smoking cigarettes and you're like, how
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: are you guys so fucking healthy.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: This is weird.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It's Yeah, it'll be interesting on cigarettes
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: if it turns out that in a certain context they're
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: not that damaging, and then out of that context they're
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: super damaging.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: I have heard that with polyphenols. I've heard that, and
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: this is a I think controversial as well. But it's
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: cigarettes taken along with olive oil, and that a lot
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: of these people have high olive oil rich diets and
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: that cigarettes along with olive oil, that the olive oil
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: tends to balance out whatever damage that the cigarettes are doing.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: That's super interesting.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which kind of makes sense.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: And it's it's gonna be like everything is going to
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 3: be something like that. Yeah, it's bad in a certain
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: context and then it seems to have been okay for
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: people in a different context.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Are there any other things that you've noticed, Like,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: I know you've done work on chocolate, right, A.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 3: Lot of a lot of work on Yeah, I've rot
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: I like my first sort of big magazine story Outside
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: Magazine sent me to the Amazon on this like crazy
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 3: hunt to like with this German guy. It was basically
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 3: apocalypse now with chocolate with this German guy who's going
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: up river into the Amazon to try to find this
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: wild cocal, like to work with some of the indigenous
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 3: groups to harvest wild cacal and make like the world's
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 3: first wild chocolate. So I went with him, crazy crazy trip,
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 3: but but yeah, I sort of fell in love with
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: cacaw on that trip. But it was like we landed.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: We took a small plane and we're gonna land on
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: this river and meet a canoe that was going to
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 3: take us up river to meet with these indigenous groups.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 3: So we found a runway. Right, this is in the
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: Bolivian Amazon, but this I've been to the Amazon all
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 3: of like four minutes. Right, the plane drops us off
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: on this flooded runway where like it was a crazy landing.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 3: We hop out of the plane. I'm glad to be alive,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: and then these four guys with guns come out of
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 3: this little cabin and we're like, we're guard This is
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: actually a landing strip that our you know, Colombian boss
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: owns and we're guarding it for him. And what do
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: you two white do yous do in here? So, like
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: all the cocaine traffic comes through this part of the Amazon,
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: and we had just done what people actually haven't been
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: killed for which is you know, like if a couple
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: of white guys drop in there, they assume you're like
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: dea or something, right, so they're super suspicious. And I
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: did you know? They were speaking Spanish, so I was
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 3: like catching every fourth word or something. I'm like, this
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: can't be good because of the guns. But but anyway,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 3: the guy I was with, the German guy, he negotiated
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: with them and finally like, okay, just give us a
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: landing fee. So we're like sure. But yeah, so that
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 3: was but that was the beginning of my chocolate journey.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: What so what part of the Amazon were you?
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: Were?
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: You and you Bolivia, which you know, you Bolivia you
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: think of like mountains LAPAs, but they have these lowlands
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: which are like straight up like like tropical rainforest. It's
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: called the Benny and it's like truly lawless area, like
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: huge swaths of jungle, a bunch of cattle ranching as well,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: and all the drug traffic comes through there from the Andes.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: So and you went there as just as a journalist.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this guy, this German guy, he'd been living
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: there for twenty years and he was trying to get
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: this cacal and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna go meet
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 3: with these groups. Do you want to come? And Outside
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 3: had just come to me and they'd liked something else
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: I'd written, and they're like, hey, we're Outside magazine. What's
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: the like freakiest thing you ever wanted to do? We'll
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll send you there. And I had like
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: a little kid at the time, so I was like,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm not going to be going off two
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 3: hundred foot waterfall and kayak for you guys. But then
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 3: this this like you know, Heart of Dark Chocolate thing
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: came up, and I was like I could be that,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 3: I could be like the comic guy for them. So
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 3: it's this like ridiculous journey where like everything went wrong,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: but we did get some really good, good chocolate at
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 3: the end of it.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: So what is the benefit of wild cacao.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 3: It tastes really really good, like better than the industrial
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 3: varieties of kick cacao that most chocolate's made with, and
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 3: it's just like kind of a cool story, and it
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: can be used to support those indigenous groups so that
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 3: the forest doesn't get cut down and turned into more
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: like cattle ranch because cacao grows in the understory of
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: the rainforest, So it's kind of a way to monetize
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 3: the full rainforest.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: And keep the canopy intact. Exactly, what is the benefits
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: of cacao?
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 3: Like health wise, it's right there with with coffee. You know,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: tons of polyphenals, a little bit of caffeine, it seems
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 3: to you know, be anti inflammatory, gives you a little boost,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: makes you happy for some of the same reasons and
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: maybe some different ones as well.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: And when you say it tastes better like in what way,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: like when you try.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: It a lot more like aromatics and less bitterness. Like Basically,
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 3: what happened with cacao is when it became a global product,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: the Europeans selected varieties that were high yielding, same thing
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 3: that happened with tomatoes and everything else. They were high yielding,
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 3: but they lost some of the great aromatic qualities that
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 3: like the old Maya cacao had had, and that's what
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 3: gets grown all over the world. Most cacao comes from
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: Africa now and it's more bitter, less interesting, but way cheaper.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 3: So then there's this movement that started like ten fifteen
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 3: years ago of people trying to go back to Latin
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 3: America to find the like ancient heirloom varieties that had
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 3: this great flavor and make like better chocolate than had
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: ever been made before. So the most ancient is the
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 3: stuff in the Amazon, which is where cacao originated, still
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: growing wild. So it's it's you know, it's kind of
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 3: cool if you can go back to the you know,
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: primordial days and chocolate.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, the example of tomatoes is a perfect example
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: because air loom tomatoes are sensational, They're so delicious, so
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: much better. There's so much better. And then you have
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: one of those bullshit McDonald's tomatoes that looks like a
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: piece of paper. Yeah, that cocaw that's what it looks like.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: That is.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's these pods and you open up the pod,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like the size of like a little
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: nerve football or something.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, I had no idea.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: And so chocolate is made from the seeds inside. You
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: got to ferment them and then roast them and then
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: you grind them in.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: A chocolate Where can one get heirloom chocolate made from
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: this ancient cacaw?
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: So the company, Yeah, so the place I send people
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 3: is Copudos, which is online site. They're like the main
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: importer of specialty chocolate. That's there.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: They are other people.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they Copudos has most of the like the
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: great wild cocals available on their website. They just it's
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: just like retail Copudos.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: So is it Capudos dot com? Yeah, yeah, it's from
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: Salt Lake City.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they've got a cool shop in Salt.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: Lake, Ah.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: Interesting preserve Bolivian rainforests.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ritual chocolate.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard of people are ritual cocow ceremonies.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you doing so that? What we're
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: doing that?
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 3: It's it's a that's a green thing. Everyone thinks it
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: goes back to something like like we're referencing some ancient
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 3: Maya ceremony.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: Of course it is.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: It's it was a white dude in Guatemdel.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 3: The people it's kind of like ayahuasca with trading wheels.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: They do cow.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: But like, what what's so it can come out of
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: a ritual where you take cacaw.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, same thing that can come out
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: of ritual where you do anything else, Like you're you're focusing,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: you know, in some mindfulness, you get a little you know,
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 3: you get a little boost from the cacao.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: But not much.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's more about the ritual or.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: Why is what is a cocow ceremony? Why there're suddenly
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: showing up all over la. Uh yeah, you can answer
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: that one on your own.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, Jamie, if you can call it Keith's cacaw.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 3: There's this guy named Keith. I think he died recently.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: He's like the classic gringo guru with a big white
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 3: beard who would like have people in Guatemala and he's
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: just invented this cocaw ceremony thing.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: Oh but he's uh damn it white people.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: And then everyone else sort of took it from him.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: There he is, well, he looks like the tab a guy.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: Look at him, big old fucking dirty pot of cacao costume.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: So he started out.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, poor Keith, these silly people.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: So but what there's like antioxidants in it, like there's
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: other a ton.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good for you. It's totally good for you.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: And yeah it you know, gets your heart beating a
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 3: little faster. There's some happy drugs in there. It's got
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 3: a tiny bit of cannabinoids in it. But and it
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 3: tastes great, so you know, what's not to like?
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: Anything else, any other foods or substances or different things
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: that you found out that were beneficial.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: Well, how do you feel about oysters? I read a
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: book about oysters too.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: I eat them all the time. Are you I like them?
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: Are they okay?
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: I mean they're great, but there's no but they're great.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: But I think they're I think I think we haven't
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: figured out why. You know, they're like, you know, you're
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: eating like a little living being. So I think you know,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: there's like some chi factor there where the reason people
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: get so excited and feel so good in the oysters.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: It's not because of like the nutrients. It's like there's
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: something else that's in there.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: You know, Well, isn't there zinc in oysters?
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: Definitely?
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: And they're supposed to have an aphrodisiac effect.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, So I think that afridisiac thing is like
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 3: it's more about the g like this living forest that
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: you're ingesting than something. It does sound a little that, yeah,
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 3: like she's gonna get she's gonna get justified scientifically.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: It's I think, yeah, so you think you're getting what's interesting.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: There's another friend of mine made an argument for vegans
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: to eat shellfish, and he said, like, if you're eating
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: clams and oysters, they're so primitive. They're more primitive than plants.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: He said, there's more evidence that plants are conscious than
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: there is that these shellfish are conscious.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, plants are pretty damn smart.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, weirdly so, yeah, and muscles and clams and
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: oysters they're not. They're they're they're sort of alive, but
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: they don't feel pain, and they just move. And because
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: they move, they open and clothes. We've decided that they're animals.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 3: And with oysters, that's literally the only thing they can do.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: The clams at least, can you know, they get the tongue,
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 3: and oysters they're stuck. They are just opening clothes. There's
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 3: not a whole lot going on there for sure.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: Right, but healthy for you, Yeah, unless you get a
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: bad batch and then you die.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 3: They are definitely a source of food poisoning.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard people dying.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, they kill a few people every year.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: My wife got food poisoning from oysters once when we
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: were on vacation. We were in Hawaii and she ate
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: oysters and somehow nother she got it.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: And I didn't.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: But then my daughter, who didn't eat oysters, also got
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: the food poisoning because food poisoning apparently can spread.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: Through the air. Interesting, and so it's contagious.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're I guess, if you're like ralphing hard
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 3: enough clothing.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: Through the air, I guess. But it was really weird.
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: And that's how we found out that food food poisoning
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: is contagious. And that's one of the reasons why they
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: isolate people when they're on boats when they have food poisoning,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: because those people could actually spread whatever that is.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: Through the air. Fucking weird. Yeah, yeah, but that I do.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: I do love oysters, but I do get nervous when
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: I eat them because every now and then you hear
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: like Houston man dies or food.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 3: Poisoning cold water cold water is says.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: Food poisoning itself is not directly contagious, as it refers
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: to an illness caused by eating or drinking contaminated food. However,
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: the specific viruses or bacteria responsible for the canabination are
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: highly contagious and can easily spread from person to person
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: through poor hygiene or shared surfaces. Yeah, so it's contagious.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: So the viruses that come from food poisoning are contagious.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: It's not like through the air. Oh, surface contact, is
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: that what it is?
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: I see, so coughing and stuff injecting, and so you
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: may be interesting the airborne confusion. The confute show more
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: can fuse food poisoning with highly contagious stomach bugs like
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: neurovirus with the viruses are not airborne. They're highly contagious,
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: can spread through the air in tiny droplets when someone
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: vomits there it is leading to contaminated surfaces or breathing
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: in aerosolized particles. So that's what it is. It's the coughs.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think we covered it.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: I think yeah, I think I think we Uh. I
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: think you're going to get a lot of interesting.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: Responses, so guess what, I don't read them.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: So good luck to all those haters shouting into the void.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: I've long suspected that sun exposure is probably good for you,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: and then it's really just a matter of like how
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: much and mitigating the damage that you could get if
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: you get burnt.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 3: Turns out you're.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it just doesn't make sense that your body
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: produces vitamin D through it. It makes you feel so good,
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: and yet somehow another is bad. I think it's, like
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: many things, very nuanced, and so I'm really happy that
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: you did so much work on it.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: I'm happy you wrote the storm too. Well.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: The Storm's just comming.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, especially after this show. But thank you very much.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: And tell everybody where your book is and how they
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: can get it.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, so whatever their favorite online place in Defensive Sunlight, Amazon,
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 3: anywhere else.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: And did you do an audio version of it?
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they let me read it. Yes, we'll see if
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 3: that was good news or nice.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: I love it when someone reads their own book. It's
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: very important.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 3: I think me too.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, thank you very much.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you