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REX HEUERMANN'S SECRET COMMUNICATIONS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, disturbing sick searches on the
0:11
Speaker 1: Gilgo Beach serial Killer's phone, five hundred chilling texts emerge.
0:20
Speaker 1: Will it Never end? With the Long Island serial Killer?
0:24
Speaker 1: Rex Hureman, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
0:29
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. The Long
0:32
Speaker 1: Island serial Killer was a quote sexual sadist who allegedly
0:37
Speaker 1: used fake names and burner phones to reach sex workers
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Speaker 1: over five hundred times. According to prosecutors, Rex Herem in
0:47
Speaker 1: age sixty three, reportedly created a tender account and used
0:53
Speaker 1: fake names to incessantly contact sex workers before he finally
1:00
Speaker 1: taken into custody twenty twenty three. He used aliases like
1:05
Speaker 1: Andrew Roberts Thomas Hawke. Also searches emerged on his phone,
1:11
Speaker 1: including why hasn't the Long Island serial Killer been caught?
1:15
Speaker 1: Or map of all known serial killers or cops launched
1:20
Speaker 1: Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force, Chilling internet searches, and
1:29
Speaker 1: over five hundred damning texts. He was reaching out to
1:34
Speaker 1: at least fifty six sex workers and to massage parlors.
1:40
Speaker 1: Massage parlers are to a total of over three hundred
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Speaker 1: times plus all the text to sex workers. What do
1:46
Speaker 1: we know about the case? Sightings of the victim's phone
1:50
Speaker 1: calls are from the victim's train, rides by the victims,
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Speaker 1: victims that left and never came back. Keeping a victim
1:59
Speaker 1: alive are days on and so he could play with him.
2:04
Speaker 1: There are going to be more victims uncovered of the
2:07
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer Rex Huremen.
2:11
Speaker 2: The com serene, almost grandfatherly image that Rex Human portrayed
2:17
Speaker 2: since his arrest was a lie and quite frankly, an
2:20
Speaker 2: insult to both law enforcement but more importantly the families
2:24
Speaker 2: that had to endure that during every court appearance over
2:27
Speaker 2: the last two and a half years. Today he was
2:31
Speaker 2: exposed for exactly what he is. A sadistic, soulless, murderous monster.
2:39
Speaker 3: This case closes and another one opens. You know, there
2:42
Speaker 3: are still you know, bodies on that beach. There are
2:45
Speaker 3: still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary.
2:49
Speaker 3: We are going to continue to work with our partners
2:53
Speaker 3: and to try to obtain closure for as many families
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Speaker 3: as we can.
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Speaker 1: That the Police Commissioner and the Suffolk County District Attorney
3:01
Speaker 1: speaking unmasked, finally, in court in lieu of a long
3:08
Speaker 1: trial a guilty plea. But just as we saw in
3:12
Speaker 1: the Idaho case, the Idaho for four Beautiful University Idaho
3:18
Speaker 1: students murdered generally speaking in their sleep by one person,
3:24
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Once again, like in Coburger, we will never
3:30
Speaker 1: really know the facts because there is no trial now.
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Speaker 1: Unlike Idaho where the death penalty does exist, in rex
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Speaker 1: humm Is jurisdiction, you can kill as many people as
3:44
Speaker 1: you want and there is no death penalty. What does
3:49
Speaker 1: this mean for his wife's reality show? That's certainly something
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Speaker 1: to ponder straight out to crime Stories investigative reporter Dave
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Speaker 1: Matt Dave Matt a Long Island serial killer, the Long
4:00
Speaker 1: Island serial killer Rex Hureman finally sneered in court.
4:05
Speaker 4: What happened once this all hit court with the announcement
4:09
Speaker 4: that he was changing his plea. A lot of people
4:12
Speaker 4: were looking at Asa ellerup as you just mentioned, and
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Speaker 4: her reality show. It was a three part series that
4:19
Speaker 4: included interviews with the couple's daughter, Victoria, And it looks
4:25
Speaker 4: like now the cameras are going to continue to roll
4:29
Speaker 4: and add additional episodes to the show called The Gilgo
4:33
Speaker 4: Beach Killer House of Secrets. So it looks like that
4:37
Speaker 4: show will continue.
4:38
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a little more interested tonight. Dave Mack in
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Speaker 1: the Guilty Please, a sudden change of plea throws the
4:48
Speaker 1: courtroom in an uproar. Rex Heureman, the admitted Long Island
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Speaker 1: serial killer, pleads guilty. In addition to Dave matt Crime
4:57
Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter joining us all so tonight. Josh Zeemann,
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Speaker 1: investigative journalist, documentary film director. He's been on the case
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Speaker 1: from the very beginning and he is the director of
5:09
Speaker 1: the Killing Season. It's a docuseries that helped shed new
5:14
Speaker 1: light on the Gilgo Beach murders. Josh, thank you for
5:18
Speaker 1: being with us. Describe what happened in court.
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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy. It was a tense moment for sure, everybody
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Speaker 5: waiting to see if Rex would actually plead, and he
5:27
Speaker 5: did eight separate times to these women. The question is,
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Speaker 5: while he was admitting these crimes, he never once turned
5:33
Speaker 5: back to look at the families. He was smirking, And
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Speaker 5: the question is why was he smirking. Was he smirking
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Speaker 5: because he was forced to admit what he'd done, or
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Speaker 5: because he knew there were other victims out there that
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Speaker 5: he was getting away with.
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Speaker 1: You know, Josh, that is certainly a scary thought, scaring
5:50
Speaker 1: even me who have actually prosecuted serial killers before smirking,
5:56
Speaker 1: you know, I thought he was smirking at the victims
6:00
Speaker 1: families are at the justice system itself. But you again
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Speaker 1: have shed a whole new light on this. Is he
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Speaker 1: smirking because he knows there are other murder victims, other
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Speaker 1: defenseless women that he's stripped, tortured and murdered, keeping them
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Speaker 1: alive in his dungeon basement for days and days on
6:23
Speaker 1: end when his wife would be out of town. We
6:25
Speaker 1: think days. And you believe there is a chance that
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Speaker 1: he's smirking because he knows there are other victims out
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Speaker 1: there that haven't been found.
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Speaker 5: Absolutely for sure, it's the tragic.
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Speaker 1: I'm curious, why do you say that?
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Speaker 5: Because we know the remains that were deposit in Ocean Parkway.
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Speaker 5: There's other folks. There's Asian Doe, Carmen Vargas, There's numerous
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Speaker 5: folks out there who and have you heard the district
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Speaker 5: attorney say it himself? You know there are other bodies
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Speaker 5: on that beach, and I was there at the press conference,
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Speaker 5: he said, sometimes it doesn't matter what I think, it
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Speaker 5: matters what I can prove. And so his next goal
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Speaker 5: is to try and prove it, to try and find
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Speaker 5: these other victims, identify some of them, and again bring
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Speaker 5: Rex to justice for these victims.
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Speaker 1: Tragic Mike Google joining us former Nessa County lieutenant, founding
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Speaker 1: member of the NYPD K nine unit. He's led multiple
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Speaker 1: investigations into serial killers, including the Gilgo Beach killer on
7:26
Speaker 1: Long Island, also secret service to Presidents. Mike, thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us. That has got to put a
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Speaker 1: shiver down your spine thinking that there are other victims.
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Speaker 1: I mean, the guy who's just in court in the
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Speaker 1: last hours pleading guilty to multiple murders. And these women
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Speaker 1: weren't just Bam, you're dead. They were kidnapped, they were stripped,
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Speaker 1: they were bound, they were tortured for days on end
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Speaker 1: while his wife was away in his underground basement dungeon,
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Speaker 1: and then ultimately murdered. They went through hell, and I wonder,
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Speaker 1: I wonder, Mike, were they thinking of their children they
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Speaker 1: would never see again. It's excruciating for me. I hate
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Speaker 1: to even imagine what they went through. And now the
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Speaker 1: specter brought up by Josh Zeeman, and he's not wrong.
8:20
Speaker 1: Of other women out there somewhere under the sand.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, Nancy, no doubt about it. Unfortunately, though, Rex Youureman
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Speaker 6: is not the only serial killer.
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Speaker 7: This is a very unique area. I'm intimately familiar with.
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Speaker 6: I patrolled the area for almost seven years with police dogs.
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Speaker 6: I trained police dogs by Tate daytime, it's a beautiful
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Speaker 6: recreational area. At night, it's a haunting, haunting, dark, desolate area.
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Speaker 6: And it's proximity to JFK Airport. Rex youwer Men literally
8:54
Speaker 6: lived fifteen minute drive from here from the locations where
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Speaker 6: the bodies were, So it's a haunting place. There's no
9:00
Speaker 6: doubt there's other bodies out there. The bodies have been
9:03
Speaker 6: being dispersed out there since the eighties during the Mafia
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Speaker 6: gang wars, so it's just a question of actually locating.
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Speaker 7: And of course, frankly, this is a very desolate area.
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Speaker 7: It's finding bodies is like finding a needle in a haystack.
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Speaker 1: Okay, this is something I don't understand. You are a
9:21
Speaker 1: founding member of NYPD, and I speak very highly of
9:26
Speaker 1: the NYPD. Like every LA law enforcement agency, it's got
9:30
Speaker 1: its problems, and it's bad apples, But you are the
9:34
Speaker 1: pinnacle NYPD. That's who all the other pds look up to. Right,
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Speaker 1: It's very hard for me to believe that a K
9:44
Speaker 1: nine or a team of K nines cannot find all
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Speaker 1: the dead bodies. Cadaver dogs, that's what I'm talking about.
9:53
Speaker 7: One hundred percent. This is what cracked this case.
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Speaker 6: A Suffolk County Police Department cadabin dog found the first victim.
10:00
Speaker 7: Without that, there would be no DNA evidence. Without that, obviously,
10:04
Speaker 7: there was great.
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Speaker 6: Work by all the DNA invest all of those things,
10:07
Speaker 6: but without the bodies, you have a very difficult case
10:11
Speaker 6: to prove. So dogs are considered in court as scientific
10:15
Speaker 6: instruments to overcome warrantless searches. So there's nothing like a
10:20
Speaker 6: dog to find odorless microscopic skin cells that are dispersed.
10:25
Speaker 6: But again, this is a big area NC. It's different terrain,
10:29
Speaker 6: there's sand, there's a lot of vegetation. So again it's
10:34
Speaker 6: not a question of if other bodies will be found,
10:36
Speaker 6: and I think the DA spoke to this, it's just
10:38
Speaker 6: a matter of when it's nothing new to us New
10:40
Speaker 6: Yorkers that this has been You go from a high congested,
10:45
Speaker 6: highly trafficked, illuminated areas. You drive ten minutes fifteen minutes
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Speaker 6: from Kennedy Airport or rex Yuberman's house, and it's creepy.
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Speaker 7: It's creepy.
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Speaker 6: I used to park my police car, turn the lights out,
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Speaker 6: and you could see five in either direction of any
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Speaker 6: cars coming or going. So guess what if the police
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Speaker 6: can do that, the bad guys can do the exact
11:07
Speaker 6: same thing. There's no curves, and there's a lot of
11:10
Speaker 6: places to sneak and hide.
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Speaker 7: So yet it's a creepy, haunting place. And it's been
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Speaker 7: that way for many my thought.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray. The Burner phones were always
11:33
Speaker 1: kept close to a phone registered in Hureman's real name.
11:39
Speaker 1: He always kept them close to him. Hureman also conducting
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Speaker 1: you thousands of porn related searches using a Gmail account.
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Speaker 1: That account, according to prosecutors, was used for more than
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Speaker 1: one hundred searches related to the Gilgo Beach serial killings.
12:00
Speaker 1: He also looked up horribly violent pornography and content quote
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Speaker 1: I'm reading straight out of the court filings related to binding, torture, rape,
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Speaker 1: snuff videos where the person's killed, crying, bruised, impaled women
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Speaker 1: and or girls. Ugh, this is the devil. It's very
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Speaker 1: clear from what the Suffolk County District Attorney right here,
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Speaker 1: Andy said that he believes there are other bodies on
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Speaker 1: this beach. Why can't the cadaver dogs find them?
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Speaker 7: They can, they have the capability of doing.
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Speaker 6: First of all, there's not a lot of cadavi dogs
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Speaker 6: because there's not a great need for them, so there's not.
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Speaker 7: A lot of them, but they certainly could.
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Speaker 6: And there's volunteer organizations that train cadavid dogs all over
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Speaker 6: the country. So yeah, it's just right. And they are
12:57
Speaker 6: continuing searching. There was police activity out there the other night.
13:01
Speaker 6: I don't know specifically for what reason. So yeah, the
13:04
Speaker 6: search is on. It's never going to end. And as
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Speaker 6: I said, it's nothing new. You can, as I said,
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Speaker 6: Rex lived fifteen to twenty minutes, you drive over a
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Speaker 6: bridge and you go from Long Island to a desolate
13:18
Speaker 6: You don't have to drive a body upstate New York.
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Speaker 6: You don't have to drive two or three hours like
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Speaker 6: in Goodfellows to dump the body upstate New York.
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Speaker 7: When you can.
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Speaker 6: Literally drive ten minutes from Queens Brooklyn and you're in
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Speaker 6: this it's like an alternate universe out there, no lights,
13:35
Speaker 6: no stores, very little police activity. Police don't patrol there
13:38
Speaker 6: because there's nothing out there in the winter. By day,
13:41
Speaker 6: again it's a beautiful recreational there. By night there's nothing
13:44
Speaker 6: out there, and it's.
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Speaker 7: Continued that way today. I was just down there the other.
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Speaker 6: Night at one o'clock in the morning, and it's eerie.
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Speaker 7: There's nothing. There's no rescue workers.
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Speaker 6: I mean, if you call nine one one, you know
13:56
Speaker 6: there's a fifteen or twenty minute response time minimally because
13:59
Speaker 6: they got go over bridges, three miles of bridges to
14:02
Speaker 6: get to this barren beach area control room.
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Speaker 1: I want to see the victims' faces, and I want
14:08
Speaker 1: to see them close up, not a distant shot of
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Speaker 1: all of them in a group. I want to see
14:15
Speaker 1: their faces, one by one, look at them. They begged
14:23
Speaker 1: for their lives, They begged to go back to their children.
14:29
Speaker 1: They promised they wouldn't tell, they promised they wouldn't call police. Instead,
14:35
Speaker 1: they were stripped, bound, tortured, raped, murdered, and their bodies
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Speaker 1: buried along a lonely stretch of beach. And rex Hueman
14:53
Speaker 1: stands in court smirking, why why, As they died and
15:01
Speaker 1: he lives because he's now going to be treated like
15:05
Speaker 1: the teacher's pet by the FBI profilers. Yeah, that's right.
15:09
Speaker 1: There are going to be many many interviews by the
15:12
Speaker 1: FBI profiling him this piece of crap, and I guarantee
15:17
Speaker 1: you one day he'll take part in his own documentary
15:22
Speaker 1: and there will be money made off of it. It's happening.
15:26
Speaker 1: Put money on it. Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensics,
15:32
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of bestseller Blood Beneath My Feet
15:36
Speaker 1: on Amazon. He is the star of a hit podcast,
15:40
Speaker 1: body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for my purposes tonight.
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Speaker 1: He is a death investigator, a very experienced veteran death
15:51
Speaker 1: investigator with over ten thousand death scenes of all sorts
15:56
Speaker 1: under his belt, over ten thousand. I first met him
16:03
Speaker 1: when I was a prosecutor in Inner City in Atlanta
16:05
Speaker 1: and he was working for the Medical Examiner's Office at
16:08
Speaker 1: that time. That's a long time ago, Joe Scott, and
16:11
Speaker 1: you haven't let up. You like me, like Gould, like Zeeman,
16:18
Speaker 1: have walked the beach. Do you concur with Gould's comments?
16:24
Speaker 8: Explain absolutely, And let me tell you why. You know,
16:28
Speaker 8: obviously you can hear my voice. I'm from the south,
16:30
Speaker 8: and you know, we think about the rural areas down here.
16:34
Speaker 8: You get up into this region and you leave what
16:37
Speaker 8: they refer to as the city. When you leave the
16:40
Speaker 8: city and you're heading out, you know, as mister Gould
16:43
Speaker 8: had mentioned just a moment ago, you get there, this
16:45
Speaker 8: is rural. This is what they consider going to the country.
16:48
Speaker 8: And it's not it's not an unfair description because it
16:51
Speaker 8: does go dark really really quickly. And here's the thing,
16:55
Speaker 8: my good buddy, Sergeant Joe Jack Loan, he took me
17:00
Speaker 8: to the location where the Gilgo bodies were actually found.
17:04
Speaker 8: And one of the things that I came away from
17:07
Speaker 8: from that visit to that location was the fact that
17:11
Speaker 8: one side of the roadway you've got this marshy area.
17:16
Speaker 8: It is prohibitive for anybody to go into there. You've
17:20
Speaker 8: got briars and brambles and everything else on that side.
17:23
Speaker 8: And the other side you can hear the waves crashing
17:26
Speaker 8: and you can't see your hand in front of your
17:28
Speaker 8: face out there at night. It would not surprise me
17:32
Speaker 8: at all if there were more He's saying at the beach,
17:35
Speaker 8: Tierney is I'm thinking probably along the sound side over there,
17:40
Speaker 8: where you can quickly deposit the bodies in that location
17:44
Speaker 8: and nobody's going to be any the wiser out there.
17:47
Speaker 8: I think that probably when he did this, he was
17:50
Speaker 8: hoping for something maybe like tidle changes that are going
17:53
Speaker 8: to sweep the bodies out. It's an easy dump to
17:56
Speaker 8: do this. He can pull them out of this avalanche,
17:58
Speaker 8: which by the way, they had recovered down in South Carolina,
18:03
Speaker 8: and they would just be gone, they would vanish, and
18:06
Speaker 8: right he was to a certain degree, but that yet
18:08
Speaker 8: there they remained. And to mister Goule's comment, those dogs
18:12
Speaker 8: are heroes, you know, because they went out there. They
18:15
Speaker 8: took those dogs out there and they actually found these remains.
18:18
Speaker 8: Is it possible they could go out there and find more. Yeah,
18:22
Speaker 8: I think that there can. Because this is an extensive area, Nancy.
18:27
Speaker 8: It would take so much manpower to get out there
18:30
Speaker 8: and cover every square inch of this area or every
18:33
Speaker 8: square mile. They haven't even scratched the surface yet. And
18:36
Speaker 8: you have to be purpose they look.
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Speaker 1: Scott, look, look, look, look, look, this is video obtained
18:42
Speaker 1: by ABC seven. Look at him. I just want the
18:44
Speaker 1: viewers to know what they're seeing. Joe Scott, there he is,
18:48
Speaker 1: and I know exactly where he is. Nobody needs to
18:50
Speaker 1: tell me. He's leaving his office. See, he's got his
18:53
Speaker 1: messenger bag over his shoulder. He's leaving his office, which
18:57
Speaker 1: was a stone throw depends to and there he would
19:02
Speaker 1: catch the pen I've been there many many times. To
19:09
Speaker 1: imagine this demon walking amongst all the ladies catching trains
19:14
Speaker 1: at Penn Station, going straight out to Long Island to
19:19
Speaker 1: commit murders. There he goes. He truly is a demon
19:23
Speaker 1: walking among us. That is what the DA said. Sorry
19:27
Speaker 1: to interrupt, Jo Scott, keep going. I just wanted the
19:29
Speaker 1: viewers to know what they were seeing.
19:33
Speaker 8: Yeah, and when I think about who else he could
19:36
Speaker 8: have victimized, how many more are there? I think there's
19:39
Speaker 8: a high probability that there are these bodies. But Nancy,
19:41
Speaker 8: if we could just return to the victims specifically, just
19:45
Speaker 8: for a second, this allocution, let me just put it
19:48
Speaker 8: to you, this way is lacking, okay, because you know
19:51
Speaker 8: what we got out of him, and yeah, I mean
19:54
Speaker 8: it confirmed some things we got him saying, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation,
20:01
Speaker 8: but there's no more detail there. I'm very disappointed. That
20:06
Speaker 8: his feet were not held to the fire. You know,
20:08
Speaker 8: you had mentioned his torture chamber, which I think that
20:11
Speaker 8: this location was. Josh has talked about how these people,
20:15
Speaker 8: these poor victims, were kept alive down there, and yet
20:18
Speaker 8: there's no more detail about what he did. I don't
20:21
Speaker 8: know that people fully appreciate the depth and breadth of
20:25
Speaker 8: how evil he is. He is demonic in my opinion,
20:30
Speaker 8: with what he did to these poor souls, and we
20:33
Speaker 8: will never know that information. All I have to do
20:35
Speaker 8: I look back at the template of the way Kansas
20:38
Speaker 8: handled BTK, and we don't have that here. It's left
20:43
Speaker 8: wanting to say the very least. And I think the
20:46
Speaker 8: families need to understand that. I think the courts need
20:49
Speaker 8: to understand that. But yet here he is. He's going
20:52
Speaker 8: to get three hots and a cot and oh, by
20:55
Speaker 8: the way, yeah, the boys from the FBI are going
20:57
Speaker 8: to come down. They're going to sit with him, and
20:59
Speaker 8: they're going to interview him extensively, right, and he is
21:03
Speaker 8: going to hold a level of celebrity. And that is
21:07
Speaker 8: probably one of the most vomit inducing things I can
21:12
Speaker 8: think of relative to this monster.
21:14
Speaker 7: Nancy.
21:15
Speaker 3: This defendant walked among us, play acting as a normal
21:19
Speaker 3: suburban dad, when in reality, all along he was obsessively
21:23
Speaker 3: targeting innocent women for death. He identified these women, lured
21:29
Speaker 3: them into Nassau County, murdered them, and left their bodies
21:33
Speaker 3: in Suffolk County. He thought that by killing them he
21:36
Speaker 3: could silence them forever and get away with murder. But
21:41
Speaker 3: he was wrong because it was these victims, these women
21:45
Speaker 3: who refused to stay stylent.
21:50
Speaker 1: In the last days, the Long Island serial killer in court, snared,
21:55
Speaker 1: admitting yes, he is the Long Island serial killer, but
22:01
Speaker 1: he's not the only one on the hot seat tonight.
22:07
Speaker 1: The question everyone keeps asking is, how could you not know?
22:20
Speaker 9: The Gilgo form was one of America's longest serial killer
22:24
Speaker 9: cold cases. After thirteen years, this bombshell drops.
22:31
Speaker 3: Rex Hueerman, architect, father, husband.
22:35
Speaker 7: He basically was the person that lived next door.
22:37
Speaker 5: He was a monster, living a double life.
22:41
Speaker 6: One person saying this, one person saying that, but my
22:44
Speaker 6: memory says this.
22:46
Speaker 8: There's so much evidence against you. I don't even believe you,
22:48
Speaker 8: and you're my best friend. Convince me give me something.
22:52
Speaker 1: Did you do it?
22:54
Speaker 8: Rex Huerman insists through his lawyer that he's innocent.
22:58
Speaker 9: Is it possible that no family ever suspected that something
23:03
Speaker 9: was off about this guy.
23:06
Speaker 5: The most mysterious figure is Rex's wife.
23:09
Speaker 1: The investigator says to me, have you heard about the
23:12
Speaker 1: murders on Gilgo Beach? I've heard of them.
23:17
Speaker 8: The idea that the wife didn't know anything was hard
23:20
Speaker 8: to believe.
23:21
Speaker 1: Does everybody really believe everything they hear?
23:29
Speaker 7: Hell?
23:30
Speaker 1: Are you doing?
23:33
Speaker 10: I'm doing great now that I've got you on the phone.
23:39
Speaker 1: How ironic that Asa Elera, the wife the Long Island
23:45
Speaker 1: serial killer, says, Does everybody believe everything they hear? Woman?
23:50
Speaker 1: What were you deaf? Duve and blind? You couldn't see,
23:54
Speaker 1: you couldn't hear, You couldn't speak of the evil happening
23:57
Speaker 1: in your basement often while you're at home? Bs on it,
24:04
Speaker 1: bs on you woman. That's from the Gilgo Beach Killer
24:08
Speaker 1: House of Secrets, their official trailer, the family of Rex
24:13
Speaker 1: Hureman getting a purported one million dollars to participate in
24:21
Speaker 1: that special documentary Blood Money, Blood Money. How do you
24:29
Speaker 1: think that makes the families of these dead women feel?
24:34
Speaker 1: These women kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered, their bodies sometimes dismembered
24:40
Speaker 1: and disposed of. How do they feel about his wife
24:44
Speaker 1: getting a cool million. It schevs me out totally. I
24:51
Speaker 1: feel filthy and nauseous all at the same time just
24:55
Speaker 1: watching the trailer, Dave Matt what matthe It's one of
25:00
Speaker 1: those shocking things that just pushes you over the edge
25:04
Speaker 1: that Asa Ellerup is the ex wife of Rex Suerman
25:08
Speaker 1: being featured and getting paid for this multi part documentary.
25:14
Speaker 4: Now, Nancy, they're adding adding new episodes to this this show.
25:22
Speaker 4: The docu series is called, you know, the gilgol Beach
25:25
Speaker 4: Killer House of Secrets, But now that the secrets are out,
25:29
Speaker 4: Asa Ellrap is going to be adding episodes. But Nancy
25:33
Speaker 4: claiming all along the family knew nothing. In court, Asa
25:38
Speaker 4: Ellerup is sitting behind Rex and she's seemingly shocked. She's
25:44
Speaker 4: sitting on the edge of the seat. She's gripping the
25:47
Speaker 4: seat with her hands. You can see the knuckles and
25:50
Speaker 4: it's like she's acting like she just can't believe what
25:52
Speaker 4: she's hearing. And there's a suggestion that she didn't believe
25:55
Speaker 4: any of it until he said he did it. But Nancy,
26:00
Speaker 4: I'm with you, like many how can you live in
26:02
Speaker 4: this house? Which, by the way, when you look at
26:05
Speaker 4: the home that Rex Huerman and his family lived in
26:09
Speaker 4: his home from his childhood. It looks like the monster's
26:12
Speaker 4: home compared to the other houses on the street. It
26:16
Speaker 4: looks like evil exists in this house. She's living there
26:20
Speaker 4: with this man. Well, you know decade. You know what,
26:23
Speaker 4: Dave Mack.
26:24
Speaker 1: If it looks like a duck and walks like a
26:26
Speaker 1: duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
26:30
Speaker 1: So yes, it is the home of the monsters, including
26:34
Speaker 1: Asa Ellerp and Rex Huerman. This from our friends at
26:37
Speaker 1: ABC seven joining us in addition to Dave Mack, Josh Zeeman,
26:43
Speaker 1: investigative journalist and director of the Killing season shining in
26:48
Speaker 1: you light on the Gilgo Beach murders. Tell me about
26:52
Speaker 1: Asa Ellrop in court and what if anything you know
26:56
Speaker 1: about her documentary here that's total BS documentary series, my
27:03
Speaker 1: rear end. What can you tell tell us about her
27:08
Speaker 1: show where she's getting a purported million dollars and now
27:12
Speaker 1: additional episodes? I may come on, Josh, don't you know
27:16
Speaker 1: she wanted this thing to go to trial, so in
27:19
Speaker 1: between every break where the jurors got a diet coke
27:22
Speaker 1: or a cup of coffee, she could go out and
27:24
Speaker 1: cry and carry on with her histrionics for the cameras,
27:29
Speaker 1: to aff for her reality show. Maybe make another million dollars,
27:32
Speaker 1: Josh Zemon.
27:34
Speaker 5: Look, I heard that she wasn't getting paid until the
27:36
Speaker 5: final episode aired. You know it is a shock about it.
27:40
Speaker 5: I agree with you completely blood money. I will tell
27:43
Speaker 5: you this. I was in the courtroom and right when
27:46
Speaker 5: Rex admitted to it, I looked back and I saw
27:49
Speaker 5: his daughter, and his daughter was she was crushed. I
27:54
Speaker 5: feel bad for the daughter. I don't feel bad for
27:57
Speaker 5: the wife. I feel bad for the daughter who I
28:00
Speaker 5: think is crushed that this man that she loved is
28:03
Speaker 5: now a terrifying serial killer.
28:06
Speaker 1: That's one thing I will tell you, Okay, I get
28:09
Speaker 1: that what I'm asking about is as Ullerup and her
28:14
Speaker 1: reality show. I don't care that she may not get
28:19
Speaker 1: all the money till the last episode. Is from what
28:22
Speaker 1: I can tell, there may not ever be a last
28:25
Speaker 1: episode in our lifetime because they're still digging up bodies.
28:28
Speaker 1: It's great, it's great, thinky you know what. Look, I'll
28:32
Speaker 1: tell you something.
28:33
Speaker 7: You know what the lawyer said.
28:34
Speaker 5: The lawyer said when asked about it, her lawyer said,
28:37
Speaker 5: this is what America wants, and that's the real question
28:41
Speaker 5: do we want this or not?
28:42
Speaker 1: My rettal question is why don't they have the death penalty?
28:45
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other can of worms. Yeah, what
28:47
Speaker 1: America wants is justice, But is that justice? Him smirking
28:51
Speaker 1: in court? And you and I were talking earlier with
28:55
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan about him being treated like the little darling,
28:59
Speaker 1: the teacher's pet, the bear behind the cage getting fed
29:05
Speaker 1: Filet mignon. Nobody wants to get that close to him,
29:08
Speaker 1: but they will feed him with a long handlespoon. That said,
29:12
Speaker 1: he's going to be studied and questioned. The FBI Behavioral
29:17
Speaker 1: Analysis Unit is going to have a field day with him.
29:21
Speaker 1: He may get to travel to them. I mean, I
29:24
Speaker 1: guarantee you, Josh, that there will be a day like
29:28
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger, that he will take part in some sort
29:31
Speaker 1: of documentary and he won't make any money, but there
29:35
Speaker 1: will be a way for money to be funneled to
29:38
Speaker 1: him through his wife, through his family. I don't know how,
29:42
Speaker 1: but he will find a way. He led quite the
29:45
Speaker 1: dual life, did he not look.
29:48
Speaker 5: This was a guy who created these two separate personas
29:52
Speaker 5: that of a father, a commuter working in New York
29:55
Speaker 5: City and that of a monster. And I think that
29:57
Speaker 5: was really important to him to create these dual personalities,
30:01
Speaker 5: one allowing him to work on the other who was
30:04
Speaker 5: a hero to his family, theoretically so that he could
30:07
Speaker 5: kill at night.
30:08
Speaker 7: It's terrifying.
30:09
Speaker 1: This is lay interview with Rex Huerman regarding the Department
30:15
Speaker 1: of Buildings. He's a consultant with them at the time.
30:17
Speaker 1: From Bonds Your Realty on YouTube, Josh, listen to this
30:22
Speaker 1: Brace yourself. You know this trick. Peacock insists that the
30:27
Speaker 1: family is not getting paid for participation, not one red pinning,
30:32
Speaker 1: but they are paying them licensing fees. What a ton
30:36
Speaker 1: of crap, wait, correction, what a ton of steinking, steaming
30:45
Speaker 1: crap paid for a licensing fee. That means, look, we
30:50
Speaker 1: can't say we're paying you for your interviews and for
30:53
Speaker 1: all of your bs that you're feeding us with a
30:56
Speaker 1: silver spoon and expecting us to swallow, but we will
30:59
Speaker 1: pay the million dollars for those pictures. That's BS. That
31:04
Speaker 1: gives them a way to say we're not paying for
31:06
Speaker 1: these interviews, but they are. They're paying for the pictures.
31:11
Speaker 1: Explain that whole bogus line.
31:14
Speaker 7: And we do.
31:14
Speaker 5: It's something we do all the time in documentary filmmaking.
31:17
Speaker 5: We can't pay them, you know, son of Sam Laws,
31:19
Speaker 5: things like that, so we say, look, we'll pay you
31:22
Speaker 5: for exclusive pictures, video access. So basically we're getting a
31:27
Speaker 5: million dollars for a picture that she's handing over. It's yeah,
31:30
Speaker 5: it's a way that we get around it so that
31:33
Speaker 5: we don't get son of Sam laws and it's it's gross,
31:35
Speaker 5: And you're absolutely right.
31:39
Speaker 1: You know, Karen Stark joining me forensic psychologists. She's a
31:42
Speaker 1: renowned TV and radio trauma expert consultant. She's at Karenstark
31:48
Speaker 1: dot com. That's Karen with the cy Karen. Just watching
31:52
Speaker 1: that trailer made me feel nauseous, I mean, and then
31:59
Speaker 1: her to act. That's the question, the rhetorical question to
32:02
Speaker 1: people believe everything they hear. Woman, you're the one that
32:06
Speaker 1: plugged your ears, closed your eyes, and taped over your
32:12
Speaker 1: mouth while your husband was raping and murdering people in
32:16
Speaker 1: your basement.
32:19
Speaker 10: Please, and to think that with that kind of an explanation,
32:24
Speaker 10: do you believe everything? That she's actually getting paid now
32:29
Speaker 10: that she has so called awareness and continuing to make
32:33
Speaker 10: that documentary. But what I wanted to say about her,
32:37
Speaker 10: and about this ex wife and Syria killer is in general,
32:41
Speaker 10: is that they tend to pick women like this. They
32:45
Speaker 10: pick women who they know will ignore red flags, will
32:50
Speaker 10: not pay attention to all the little details that everyone
32:54
Speaker 10: else we know would pay attention to that basement, the
32:58
Speaker 10: horrors that were there, all the little suspicions. So I
33:02
Speaker 10: think that that's an important thing to notice that this
33:06
Speaker 10: really fits a pattern of what serial killers do they
33:10
Speaker 10: want this kind of woman.
33:12
Speaker 1: Hey, Karen, Karen, Karen, you know my husband David very well, Okay,
33:18
Speaker 1: I do. Occasionally he will break down and make the
33:21
Speaker 1: bed up in the morning. And we went to go
33:25
Speaker 1: see Vango's sunflower exhibit. It can go with me on this.
33:28
Speaker 1: I'm going somewhere and there's a pillow of a sunflower
33:32
Speaker 1: from a Vango painting, And unless you really look at it,
33:36
Speaker 1: you can't tell which way is what. But I can
33:40
Speaker 1: tell because the vase is at the bottom and there's
33:42
Speaker 1: a little tag on the right side of the pillow.
33:46
Speaker 1: When I walk through going back and forth doing laundry
33:49
Speaker 1: or whatever I'm doing, I noticed that the pillow is
33:52
Speaker 1: upside down, and I fix it. Okay, So if I
33:57
Speaker 1: notice the Vang pillow is upside down. I'm grateful he
34:02
Speaker 1: made the bet up, but be I fix it, you
34:05
Speaker 1: will tell me never noticed anything in the basement where
34:10
Speaker 1: women were tripped right tortured and murdered.
34:14
Speaker 10: No way, I'm not saying she didn't notice it, Nancy.
34:18
Speaker 10: The important thing that I'm pointing out is that she's
34:22
Speaker 10: the kind of person who would ignore what she notices,
34:26
Speaker 10: that she's able to find a way inside of her
34:29
Speaker 10: mind to absolutely put it aside and say, in some
34:34
Speaker 10: way without saying to you, but to herself, I'm not
34:38
Speaker 10: going to pay attention to this in order to keep
34:41
Speaker 10: the life that she has. And there's no doubt in
34:45
Speaker 10: my mind, just like you, that there were hints, there
34:49
Speaker 10: were red flags all the time. But this is somebody
34:52
Speaker 10: who would not pay attention to them. And that happens
34:55
Speaker 10: a lot with the kind of women that serial killers pick.
34:59
Speaker 10: Think Ted Bundy, think Dennis Raider. They pick women who
35:04
Speaker 10: live with them and somehow can't see what everyone else
35:08
Speaker 10: can see. In addition to which look at their personalities,
35:13
Speaker 10: they are able to switch. It's like turning on a
35:16
Speaker 10: light right. They could switch between the life that they're
35:20
Speaker 10: living with their family, with the community and turn into
35:24
Speaker 10: these demonic killers that torture and brave. They are able
35:29
Speaker 10: to do that. People can't do that, but serial killers can't.
35:34
Speaker 11: The fourth witness, she was a sex worker for many years.
35:38
Speaker 11: She said that she would serve as rex Uomen over
35:41
Speaker 11: twenty times and that he would he was a serial
35:44
Speaker 11: user of sex workers. He would sometimes have him come
35:48
Speaker 11: two at a time to his house and his wife
35:51
Speaker 11: was home upstairs, and in one instance got very angry
35:55
Speaker 11: at one of the sex workers because the wife believed
35:59
Speaker 11: that the worker had stolen an iron from you know,
36:02
Speaker 11: for ironing clothes, and had had it in the car
36:05
Speaker 11: with the driver, So the driver had to get out,
36:07
Speaker 11: everybody had to search the car. There was no iron,
36:10
Speaker 11: but the wife knew about it and knew about obviously
36:13
Speaker 11: what was going on in order for that to happen.
36:18
Speaker 8: You know, they're saying specifically that there's evidence of torture
36:22
Speaker 8: that's different than post mortal mutilation, Nancy.
36:25
Speaker 6: And it's clear how much he was obsessed with his
36:28
Speaker 6: own doing what he did following the Brutolph Mars.
36:33
Speaker 1: He can never erase anything on your computer. Snared in court,
36:40
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer rex Hueman pleads guilty to multiple murders,
36:45
Speaker 1: but I'm not done with you yet. Asa eleerup, the
36:49
Speaker 1: wife a million dollars at least for a reality show,
36:54
Speaker 1: and now a lawsuit. Dave matt who is suing elerop.
37:01
Speaker 4: Benjamin Torres. He is the thirty two year old son
37:04
Speaker 4: of victim Valerie Mack. He is naming Rex Huerman obviously,
37:09
Speaker 4: but in this million dollar lawsuit he names Asa Elera
37:14
Speaker 4: and daughter Victoria Huerman as defendants. Torres alleges that he
37:19
Speaker 4: was deprived of his mother's care and protection, claims Mack
37:23
Speaker 4: was tortured before her death, and the suit seeks damages
37:27
Speaker 4: and targets the prophets allegedly earned by Elera in Victoria
37:31
Speaker 4: Huerman from the Peacock documentary that we've been talking about.
37:35
Speaker 4: I'm saying that human's life being shown like this is
37:40
Speaker 4: a callous disregard to the victims' families.
37:45
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just imagining what the victims' families have
37:49
Speaker 1: gone through. They went for years thinking maybe their mothers
37:55
Speaker 1: just left them, abandoned them. How do you like to
37:59
Speaker 1: grow up thinking that mom just left. I don't know
38:02
Speaker 1: where she is. She didn't love me enough to stay
38:05
Speaker 1: with me, or even stay in touch with me. I
38:08
Speaker 1: grew up without a mother, and then they find out
38:11
Speaker 1: for all those years that they blamed their mom, that
38:14
Speaker 1: their mom had been tortured and raped and murdered and
38:20
Speaker 1: their remains buried on a desolate beach. Just growing up
38:27
Speaker 1: in itself has all sorts of trauma and issues pile
38:31
Speaker 1: that on top. I don't know how these people even
38:33
Speaker 1: get out of bed in the morning. To Joseph Scott
38:37
Speaker 1: Morgan explain what was done to these victims? And you
38:45
Speaker 1: know what, when we show their faces, Joe Scott, it's
38:48
Speaker 1: easy to go, Oh, there's a long Island serial killer victims.
38:52
Speaker 1: I would have to make jurrrs and I didn't like
38:55
Speaker 1: it any more than they did make them in front.
39:01
Speaker 1: What really happened to these ladies, what they endured before
39:07
Speaker 1: their deaths? What happened to them, Joe Scott.
39:13
Speaker 8: The worst possible torture that you can imagine. Can we
39:16
Speaker 8: reflect back just for a second to think about this list.
39:20
Speaker 8: Do you remember the list, Nancy, This kind of assignment
39:24
Speaker 8: of task that he had created. Nancy. There's one part
39:29
Speaker 8: in this list that he had created where it says,
39:33
Speaker 8: by the bye, don't forget to remove the hands and
39:37
Speaker 8: the head and to wash the bodies. Just let's just
39:41
Speaker 8: meditate on that, just for a second, of how dark
39:45
Speaker 8: this whole thing is, and if it happened once, it
39:50
Speaker 8: happened multiple times. And that's in death. Lord only knows
39:55
Speaker 8: what had happened in life, down in that dark space
40:01
Speaker 8: as he is torturing these poor victims. And here's the
40:07
Speaker 8: real shame. Just like Ted Bundy, we will hear his
40:12
Speaker 8: name over and over and over and over again. Guess what.
40:17
Speaker 8: Guess what. There are very few people that can go
40:21
Speaker 8: down the list of Ted Bundy's victims and name them.
40:25
Speaker 8: I submit to you that the names of these victims
40:29
Speaker 8: will be forgotten. And I hate to say that it's
40:31
Speaker 8: very callous, but his name will trump everything else. He'll
40:35
Speaker 8: be mentioned over and over and over again, and people
40:38
Speaker 8: need to remember this. This is why when I think
40:41
Speaker 8: about the allocution, why he should be compelled to talk
40:45
Speaker 8: about what These are individuals. They had lives, they had families,
40:49
Speaker 8: and the torture that they were subjected to is stuff
40:52
Speaker 8: that you can't even imagine in your wildest dreams. It's
40:56
Speaker 8: stuff that you think about war crimes. People that commit
40:59
Speaker 8: war didn't do stuff like this. You know, one thing
41:03
Speaker 8: that I reflectively think back to in this list, there's
41:07
Speaker 8: at one point where he actually uses the term hard point,
41:11
Speaker 8: and that really stuck with me. And the hard point
41:14
Speaker 8: was a location commonly where you secure something like, for instance,
41:20
Speaker 8: an eye an eye hook in the ceiling, where you
41:23
Speaker 8: can tie somebody up, you can hang them almost like
41:26
Speaker 8: a piece of beef. Or if you're feel dressing a
41:28
Speaker 8: deer and talking about the context of that, you know,
41:32
Speaker 8: what's your purpose for doing that? Rex? You know, why
41:35
Speaker 8: would you need a hard point. I know he's an architect.
41:37
Speaker 8: He probably uses that term from the descriptor of building
41:41
Speaker 8: something out, but that's not what he used that for, Nancy.
41:45
Speaker 8: He used that to secure these individuals so he could
41:48
Speaker 8: work out these sick fantasies. And you know, they're paying
41:52
Speaker 8: the price. They're paying the price to satiate these evil
41:55
Speaker 8: desires that he has, and they are not going to
41:59
Speaker 8: be memorialized. I am truly hoping. I am so glad
42:02
Speaker 8: you brought up this gentleman who is suing, because maybe
42:06
Speaker 8: there will be relief in civil court where they will
42:10
Speaker 8: have to talk about this stuff. They will have to
42:12
Speaker 8: talk about what happened in her domicile that she was
42:16
Speaker 8: living in with her kids. This was all going on
42:20
Speaker 8: under her nose in that basement she inhabited the space.
42:23
Speaker 8: Let's hear it, you know, let the hide come with
42:26
Speaker 8: the hair, and let's hear what they have to say
42:28
Speaker 8: about this and what went on in that house. You're
42:31
Speaker 8: not gonna get in civil court, I mean in the
42:32
Speaker 8: criminal court, because he's not gonna be forced testified at
42:35
Speaker 8: this point. But in the civil court, maybe these families
42:38
Speaker 8: will get some relief and they will be able to
42:41
Speaker 8: see what he had done, and you can parade all
42:44
Speaker 8: of the experts across the stand. In civil court, you
42:47
Speaker 8: can get transcripts, you can do depositions, and they're going
42:50
Speaker 8: to talk about it, and I hope, I hope they
42:52
Speaker 8: go forward with it. I hope every family member out
42:55
Speaker 8: there that suffered at his hands will file suit, and
42:59
Speaker 8: we're gonna what actually happened down there in that basement.
43:03
Speaker 1: And recall, Joe Scott that Asa Elerp's hair was actually
43:07
Speaker 1: found on Valerie Max's body, which opens up a whole
43:11
Speaker 1: nother can of worms. I'd like to go back to
43:15
Speaker 1: what the control room was showing while you were talking,
43:18
Speaker 1: Joe Scott I guess in your world, as do I.
43:22
Speaker 1: I make lists all the time so I can't forget
43:24
Speaker 1: what all I have to do. Don't hunt too long
43:28
Speaker 1: in one area because you'll be seen. Don't charge for
43:32
Speaker 1: your gas, check for video cameras in the pickup area.
43:37
Speaker 1: The next time you kidnap your victim, hit the victim harder,
43:43
Speaker 1: make it easier to quote take them down a hit
43:46
Speaker 1: to the face or the neck next time, which means
43:49
Speaker 1: he didn't hit the victim in the right place for
43:52
Speaker 1: him the first time, and she fought back. You need
43:55
Speaker 1: more sleep before the murders. You need to control the
43:58
Speaker 1: noise and more quote playtime. In other words, torture hang
44:03
Speaker 1: drop claws from the ceiling with pushpins, not tape, because
44:09
Speaker 1: the drop claws become loose during the rapes and the torture.
44:14
Speaker 1: Use heavy rope for the neck. Light rope broke under
44:19
Speaker 1: the stress of being tightened. Now that sun and all
44:24
Speaker 1: the victims' families have to think about how tightly ropes
44:29
Speaker 1: were cinched around their mother's neck. Props, toys, wood items,
44:35
Speaker 1: wood items for what, destroy books, computer files, anything that
44:42
Speaker 1: touched t one. I guess the victim. Dispose of plastic
44:49
Speaker 1: bags remove marks from the torture. What does that mean
44:55
Speaker 1: when he cut out portions of their skin, remove head
44:59
Speaker 1: and hands.
45:00
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're talking about excision there, Nancy. Excision is say,
45:04
Speaker 8: for instance, you have a sharp instrument and you have
45:07
Speaker 8: an insult to the skin. For instance, you have a mark,
45:10
Speaker 8: an abrasion, a contusion, whatever it is. He's talking about
45:14
Speaker 8: excizing that area, actually cutting out.
45:17
Speaker 1: Of cutting and out, cutting out of the tattoo from
45:20
Speaker 1: the skin. That's what Joe Scott is saying. And he's
45:23
Speaker 1: right now here are his problems to the panel DNA,
45:27
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Tire marks for him, that's a problem. Bloodstains, fingerprints,
45:32
Speaker 1: plastic bag he had cat litter to get rid of
45:37
Speaker 1: the smell. This guy, look at this, all the supplies
45:43
Speaker 1: Booti's acid, lie a police scanner, cutting tools here in nance,
45:50
Speaker 1: burn cain drain cleaner, tarps, electric clips, large electric clips
45:59
Speaker 1: for what Joe Scott to put on the victims' bodies
46:03
Speaker 1: and electrocute them as torture. Why would he need electric clips?
46:08
Speaker 8: Yeah, to send voltage to their bodies. Because he is
46:12
Speaker 8: experiencing this. This is he wants to see the pain,
46:15
Speaker 8: He wants to see the resistance he wants to see
46:18
Speaker 8: their reaction to the terror that he's inflicting upon them. Okay,
46:22
Speaker 8: they know that something horrible is coming, that horror being
46:26
Speaker 8: their end. But what's happening before they get to that death,
46:31
Speaker 8: which probably at the end of the day many of
46:34
Speaker 8: them were probably begging for Nancy at that point. I
46:38
Speaker 8: think the big question is we know these eight victims
46:42
Speaker 8: that he has admitted to. I want to know how
46:45
Speaker 8: many more women were brought down there and subjected to
46:48
Speaker 8: the same torture in this environment. You know, Lord only knows,
46:54
Speaker 8: you know. One of the things I think about is
46:57
Speaker 8: the DNA recovery down there in that area. I really
47:00
Speaker 8: wonder how many unknown bits of DNA may have been recovered,
47:04
Speaker 8: What was the opportunity, how much had it degraded. There's
47:07
Speaker 8: so many unanswered.
47:08
Speaker 1: Pols crime stories with Nancy Grace. I noticed on the
47:23
Speaker 1: list to Josh Zeeman joining US director of The Killing Season,
47:28
Speaker 1: an entire docuseriies that profiled and shed light on the
47:33
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killings. I noticed on his list he
47:37
Speaker 1: wanted more photo film his words, so obviously he took
47:41
Speaker 1: pictures during the torture or after.
47:47
Speaker 5: In fact, Nancy, there are believed to be one hundred
47:50
Speaker 5: thousand pictures that the disc attorney has had to go
47:54
Speaker 5: through that the FBI helped to even organize one hundred thousand.
48:00
Speaker 5: Amazing is this guy took all these precautions to try
48:03
Speaker 5: not to get caught, yet still this was all sitting
48:06
Speaker 5: on his computer. This document, this planning document, it's called
48:09
Speaker 5: the HK planning document Hunt and Kill planning document. It
48:14
Speaker 5: was sitting in this edge, in this bites of his
48:16
Speaker 5: computer that he could not erase. So despite all these
48:20
Speaker 5: things that he had done, it was still there, and
48:24
Speaker 5: thank god they were able to get this. He was
48:26
Speaker 5: actually you talk about this house looking so ramshackle. He's
48:30
Speaker 5: a hoarder. He hoarded all these old items, old pom pilots.
48:34
Speaker 5: There were palm pilots that they found that basically gave
48:37
Speaker 5: the dates of what he was doing and going that
48:40
Speaker 5: actually mentioned his wife being away at times and he
48:44
Speaker 5: would go and find a victim. So he hoarded everything,
48:48
Speaker 5: including all these pieces of evidence. He also had the
48:52
Speaker 5: most shocking thing is he had newspaper articles, thirty year
48:56
Speaker 5: old newspaper articles in his bedroom, in his office, in
49:00
Speaker 5: his basement of all his crimes. So for some guy
49:03
Speaker 5: who's such an architect and such a great planner, he
49:07
Speaker 5: still kept all these mementos that basically nailed them to
49:10
Speaker 5: a wall for these killings.
49:12
Speaker 1: To Mike Gould, special guest, former Nasau County lieutenant founding
49:17
Speaker 1: member of the NYPD K nine unit, led multiple investigations
49:23
Speaker 1: into serial killers, including this case. Mike, after all your work,
49:29
Speaker 1: all your time, literally blood, sweat and tears, how does
49:33
Speaker 1: it make you feel that this guy, he might be
49:37
Speaker 1: sentenced consecutively won after the next half, the next but
49:40
Speaker 1: bottom line, he gets one life sentence for everything he did.
49:47
Speaker 6: Yeah, Nancy, it's sickening. This is a true animal monster,
49:50
Speaker 6: whatever you want to call it. But what's most disturbing.
49:52
Speaker 6: He could be at your next dinner party. He was
49:54
Speaker 6: an architect, he's very well respected in the community. You
49:58
Speaker 6: know what I think about. As I said, I patrolled
50:00
Speaker 6: this Areos Parkway from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety
50:04
Speaker 6: nine when frankly these bodies were disposed of. But here's
50:08
Speaker 6: the sad reality. I could have pulled him over. He
50:12
Speaker 6: has a license registration and he could have had a
50:15
Speaker 6: body in his trunk. He's a duck hunter and he's
50:17
Speaker 6: a member of the community. I would have probably let
50:20
Speaker 6: him go. There would be no reason for me to
50:22
Speaker 6: suspect because sociopaths are very manipulative.
50:26
Speaker 7: As I said, he could be He's just somebody's next
50:28
Speaker 7: door neighbor.
50:29
Speaker 6: He could be at So that's what's the most troubling
50:32
Speaker 6: to me, is you never know the evil at lurks
50:36
Speaker 6: in anybody's mind. Frankly, So, yeah, I could have stopped him,
50:40
Speaker 6: checked his license registration. I could have said, what are
50:42
Speaker 6: you doing down here at two o'clock in the morning.
50:44
Speaker 6: You get said, I'm going duck hunting. I'm doing this,
50:46
Speaker 6: And I would have let him go. And that's the
50:48
Speaker 6: facts of life. And there could have been a mutilated
50:51
Speaker 6: body in his trunk.
50:52
Speaker 1: Mike gild a special guest tonight. He worked the Long
50:56
Speaker 1: Island serial killer case. Mike, what you said is chilling, eerie,
51:05
Speaker 1: and I know it to be true. I remember one
51:09
Speaker 1: serial killer I prosecuted was a chef and everybody loved him.
51:14
Speaker 1: He was a serial killer. So what you're saying, it's
51:18
Speaker 1: and I would not in front of the jury. I
51:20
Speaker 1: would look over at him and just try to take
51:23
Speaker 1: it in. And it's very hard to evaluate, to understand
51:33
Speaker 1: to reconcile that that guy sitting there in a gorgeous
51:38
Speaker 1: suit flanked by lawyers is a cold blooded killer. And
51:45
Speaker 1: when I think of what Josh Zieman just said about
51:48
Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand photos of these dead women daring
51:57
Speaker 1: torture during rapes, and their families have to live with
52:01
Speaker 1: that the rest of their lives. I mean, I feel,
52:05
Speaker 1: I don't know, robbed by this guilty plate, and I
52:09
Speaker 1: don't know why.
52:12
Speaker 12: Yes, so this is a heinous crime. We can't you
52:14
Speaker 12: can't fathom insanity. How can a normal functioning person, as
52:19
Speaker 12: I said, this could be anyone. Nobody's immune to this.
52:23
Speaker 6: This could be a priest, that could be any member
52:25
Speaker 6: of your community, a family member. They're devious and they
52:30
Speaker 6: live double lives. If you look at all his notes,
52:32
Speaker 6: those are the notes of an architecture.
52:34
Speaker 7: Right.
52:35
Speaker 6: Architects are very meticulous and they have to learn from
52:37
Speaker 6: their last architectural drawings.
52:41
Speaker 7: So when you look at that, this is a checklist
52:43
Speaker 7: police scanners. He had probably.
52:46
Speaker 6: Thought about how what he was going to say if
52:48
Speaker 6: somebody like myself pulled him over in the middle of
52:50
Speaker 6: the night on Ocean Park, where I'm sure he had
52:53
Speaker 6: a very well reasoned excuse. So this is this is
52:57
Speaker 6: a sadistic maniac, and we can scratch a head from
53:00
Speaker 6: now to eternity trying to figure out what how a
53:03
Speaker 6: sociopath thinks, how they get some side of type of
53:06
Speaker 6: enjoyment from mutilating people. It's not on our radar screen.
53:10
Speaker 6: It's certainly not on my radar screen. So yeah, I
53:13
Speaker 6: Fortunately for me, I've been doing this stuff so long,
53:16
Speaker 6: I have a way of just isolating those thoughts and
53:21
Speaker 6: the emotions. I'm kind of emotionally detached from a lot
53:24
Speaker 6: of this, So a lot of it I frankly don't
53:26
Speaker 6: even listen to as I just kind of avoid it,
53:30
Speaker 6: stick with the facts of the case.
53:31
Speaker 7: But yeah, he's a monster, period.
53:35
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, what advice, what words of consolation or hope
53:43
Speaker 1: can you give the victims families?
53:47
Speaker 10: Well, the best you could do in a case like this, Nancy,
53:49
Speaker 10: is to actually talk to them, advise them to get help,
53:55
Speaker 10: to keep talking it out, because it really makes a difference.
53:58
Speaker 10: And it's really hard because they're aware of the torture.
54:03
Speaker 10: They just like you, right, they can't fathom it, and
54:06
Speaker 10: they could put themselves in the place of the victim,
54:09
Speaker 10: which is terrible to imagine what they went through. And
54:14
Speaker 10: here he does this because he gets a charge out
54:17
Speaker 10: of it. That smirk is showing you how much he
54:21
Speaker 10: enjoys this. And there is no doubt in my mind
54:25
Speaker 10: that he pleaded guilty because he didn't want to go
54:28
Speaker 10: over the details. He has very specific details that he
54:33
Speaker 10: wants to keep to himself and maybe share with the
54:36
Speaker 10: FBI so he can get the fame that he's been
54:39
Speaker 10: looking for. But this is a monster, and so what
54:44
Speaker 10: do you say to the family is except be with
54:47
Speaker 10: each other, keep talking about it. You must go on
54:51
Speaker 10: with your lives for the sake of the victims.
54:55
Speaker 1: It's not over yet, and we wait as justice unfolds.
55:02
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend
55:13
Speaker 4: Hm