Latest / Ryder Lee / Contact in the Desert | Paul Hynek

Transcript

Contact in the Desert | Paul Hynek · Ryder Lee

0:23
Welcome back to Raised by Giants Live discussion. Welcome everyone in the chat,
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get to see you guys, and any moderators out there and any channel members.
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We have an amazing show lined up for you guys here today with an
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episode brought to you by Contact in the Desert this year May thirtieth through June
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third, the ten year anniversary. Get your tickets now and I will be
0:48
there and come by and say hi. The link to the on cel tickets
0:52
are in the description of this video, and if you use promo code Earth
0:56
ten you'll get an extra ten percent off that ticket price. And today we
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have with this one of the key note speakers from Contacting the Desert team,
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the son of j Allen Heinich of Project blue Book Theme. Paul Heinich,
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Welcome to the show. It's good to see you, Hey, Rder.
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How are you, buddy? Doing great? And I'm excited to have the
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conversation with you here today. And I guess we should start off with just
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what is your lecture going to be about at Contact in the Desert this year?
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And this isn't your first time speaking at this conference, No, not
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my first rodeo. And I'm given three presentations. One is Ufology one O
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one one is how to demonstrate the objective reality of Supernatural Encounters, and the
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other one is Bitcoin Astronomy, The nexus of UFOs, DMT and Bitcoin.
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Yeah, we were talking a little bit about DMT before we started the show,
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So you're kind of like a crypto expert. I would Yes, I'm
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a crypto officionado, and I think bitcoin is one of the biggest fundamental innovations
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of our lifetimes and it's going to change the world. Do you think it's
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going to shoot up over a million dollars? Like I've got to investments.
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Fidelity Investment says it's going to a billion dollar, so I'll go with them.
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Interesting. So what I really wanted to talk to you about here this
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evening is that a lot of people know about Project blue Book, but people
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don't know that well, some people do, but it's kind of under the
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radar that there were two other government programs ran by the Air Force look into
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the UFO phenomenon prior to Project blue Book, which was Project Signed ran from
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nineteen forty seven to forty nine, and then Project Grudge from forty nine to
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fifty one, and your dad, Jay Allen Heinik was pretty critical to Project
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Sign and Project Grudge, saying that they were pretty much unscientific, though pretty
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much all three of the programs, including Project blue Book, all came to
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the pretty much the same conclusions that the majority of the reported UFOs appeared to
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represent actual aircraft, but there wasn't enough data to determine their origin, and
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that pretty much almost all of these cases were explained by ordinary causes. And
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your dad j. Allen Heinich was a part of all three of these programs
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correct that being Project Signed, Grudge, and Blue Book. That's right,
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and they were interesting, but very frustrating from my father, who is a
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scientist, because especially Project blue Book, which is the longest lasting of the
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three, was not a serious scientific endeavor. It was more of a public
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relations exercise to sort of tamp down hysteria about flying saucers. And somebody once
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called it the Society for the Explanation of the Uninvestigated, because their whole impetus
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was just to stamp solved on all of the twelve thousand odd cases that they
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deigned to investigate. But still even with that institutional impetus to explain them all,
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they still couldn't in good conscious explain over five percent of the cases they
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investigated. Now, when you think, what do you think that changed Alan
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Heinek's mind on the skepticism that he had surrounding the phenomenon in a sudden change
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of heart into the extraterrestrial realm, Because I believe that's kind of a rare
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thing these days. Normally people are believers from the jump, like for instance,
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you know Bill Cooper, hardcore believer. Towards the end, he wanted
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to exit and remove himself from the entire community because he figured out it was
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all human craft, more specifically Nazi craft, and he was killed not long
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after, unrelated to his UFO research, but still a weird coincidence. So
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do you know what Alan Heinich maybe had experience that would have changed his mind
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that there's nothing to the phenomenon to a complete one to eighty full fled believer.
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I'll like, in UFOs to bitcoin, anybody who studies bitcoin for more
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than one hundred hours comes away, let's say, a believer, And I
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think it's the same thing with UFOs. At first, you know, they
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were called flying saucers, and my father thought it would take a couple of
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weekends worth of work to help the Air Force just solve the whole issue.
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But a funny thing happened on the way to the debunking parade, and over
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the course of years he was involved for twenty years. He didn't really go
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from a skeptic to a believer, because I don't think that's really how scientists
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view the world. But he went to accepting the accumulated weight of the data,
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not necessarily that they're extraterrestrial or interdimensional or time travelers or what have you,
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but that there was a bona fide phenomena that really merited serious scientific study,
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and that's where he landed. So he didn't necessarily believe in the extraterrestrial
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hypothesis that extraterrestrials were responsible for these UFOs. Well, he liked the word
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meta terrestrial because he felt that there was something beyond the pale of as you
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mentioned Nazi craft, something beyond human technology now that could come from the ocean,
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it could come from space, another dimension, but there are He and
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Jacques Balle and others certainly felt that the extraterrestrial hypothesis, although it could certainly
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be part of it, didn't encompass the total of the phenomena, and there
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are a lot of problems, you know, logistical issues and challenges with extraterrestrial
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travel. So maybe, you know, he thought perhaps something interdivensal. Who
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knows, interdimensional or cryptoterrestrial, I think is a term that is used now
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for other beings that are from the planet, that are from Earth. Yeah,
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I mean that that would that would answer you know, the universe is
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a very big place, and even though we've been beaming episodes of I Love
7:31
Lucy and you know radio shows into the universe for many decades, it's non
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trival just to find us because the universe is massive. And then if extraterrestrials
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come all this way, whether they're but biological beings or some type of AI
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sentinels, why don't they do more than they've done? You know? Are
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you know, you could say that they're trying to you know, honor the
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prime directed and not interfere or their manipulatings behind the scenes. But it seems
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to me if extraterrestrials located us and decided we were worth visiting, I would
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think they'd do a little bit more than what we've had reported so far.
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I agree with that statement. And now Alan Heink was a part of the
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Robertson panel too, correct, Yeah, not a featured player. He was
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an associate professor at the time, and even though he was the subject matter
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expert in the room, they didn't really deign to listen to him much because
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both the Robertson Panel in nineteen fifty two and the Condon Committee in nineteen sixty
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nine were you know, exercises by the Air Force to get some kind of
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academic legitimacy to tamping it down or shutting it down. In the case of
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the Condon Committee, what was the Robertson panel set up? Because I'm pretty
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sure, unless I'm getting it rung, the Robertson Panel was set up by
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the CIA, that's right. What was that panel intended to do? Was
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that to analyze the information from Project Blue Book. No, neither the Robertson
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Panel or the Content Committee were honest exercises into you know, seeing where the
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cards stack up. They just wanted to say nothing to see here, Please
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disperse. We don't need any government efforts or resources to studying this because there's
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nothing to it. Well, it's interesting that the Robertson Panel was started up
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just a year after the Washington Flap event of nineteen fifty two with the UFOs
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over the White House there right. Robertson panel was started in nineteen fifty three,
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I believe. What do you think about the Washington flap event. Well,
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it's a very interesting situation because you had Truman scrambling fighter jets after objects
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seen in the sky. So this is not something you know written about in
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the paper that farmer Jones someplace in Maryland saw. This is the United States
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Air Force on repeated days scrambling fighter jets to go after things in the sky.
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It's pretty frigging crazy. It is crazy. And if you think about
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it, we just got out of World War two seven years earlier. The
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Cold War is starting to really heat up now. If the government really believed
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that these craft were from an advanced off world civilization and this was like a
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threatening position to the government by positioning craft over the White House, then why
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would they Why would you give a shootdown order and scramble all these jets and
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risk war with a supposed intergalactic species of beans. It makes zero sense to
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me, But you know who knows. I wasn't there. What's your thoughts?
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On that well, I think in that situation, our armed forces have
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kind of a reflexive posture. If there's a threat in the sky, the
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air force has to do something. It's their job to demonstrate air superiority to
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our enemies in an offensive capacity, but also to show the world and Americans
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that we've got this, We've got this covered. Nothing is going to rain
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down terror upon your heads. So the air force is between a rock and
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a hard place. Even if they realize in the brief moments when they're analyzing
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whatever is flying around that this is beyond our capabilities, they still have to
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make a college effort and try to go up there and try to shoot it
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down if they can. Yeah, makes sense, But holy crap, thinking
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that maybe this is an advanced off world species, like you don't really know
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what they're capable of, you know, Harry Truman shoot shoot down order.
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After one of the biggest wars that we've ever been involved in, another war
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is, you know, happening the Cold War. It's like, that's really
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strange that that would even be, you know, considered. And then also,
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what if it's human technology, what if it's like human craft? You
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know, I think though, if you if you go back to then with
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that kind of simmering tension all the time, you know, it's it's very
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quick decision making. Sir. There are objects in our airspace over the nation's
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capital, Go get them. I think that's all the thought process there is,
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because they're still more or less on a war footing. Yeah, that
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would make sense. Excuse me. Did the Robertson Panel or Project Sign,
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Project Grudge, or Project Boot blue Book ever say the UFOs like just didn't
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exist, or were they singing that this is it extraterrestrial craft? None of
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those. The Project Sign was the most sort of open project, The aptly
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named Project Grudge was nothing at all, and Project blue Book was very dismissive,
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you know, because, as I said, they they weren't studies,
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they weren't scientific efforts. They were public relations exercises. They just wanted to
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people feel calm that we got this. There's really nothing to see here.
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So none of there. Although they would sometimes say we don't know what this
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was, they would never say, hey, this is extraterrestrial or something that
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represents a real threat to our national security. So they never really outright denied
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that there was a phenomenon or well, no, they did. I mean
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that many times they would say, we don't see any evidence to suggest that
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there's something extraterrestral. That's really what people focused on. But there are cases
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the way they say, we don't know what this is. We can't determine
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exactly what it is. But once again, folks, don't worry. There's
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nothing. There's no little green men with ray guns out there, which is
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kind of what they've said from the very beginning, right, and that was
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what they say to this very day. Yeah, sure, you know,
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it seems like the government has been seeing the exact same thing since nineteen forty
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seven. It's just as recently as this year with Arrow and the historical UAP
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report. It's the same thing. But now they admit that a majority of
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it is governmental technology, military drones, misidentified aircraft, and natural phenomenon.
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So it's like they haven't really changed their position much. The Navy has to
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some degree, but I don't expect them to and I don't really care what
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they say or do. They're a bad faith, corrupt central actor, and
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you know, let's say that they have downed saucers and maybe alien bodies in
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a hangar somewhere and they're working on reverse engineering the propulsion system. I don't
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if I'm an Air Force general. Let's do a role play writer. Let's
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say you and I are both Air Force generals, tried and true career veterans,
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and it's you and I who know all the secrets that we have the
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bodies, then everything you and I are going to determine if we're going to
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disclose that. And we know that there are congressional panels Danny Shean and Steve
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Bassett and Richard Dolan knocking at the door trying to get the information from us.
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But here's my position. I'll be good in God damned if some pasty
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faced pencil pusher on Capitol Hill is going to tell me what to do.
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I didn't join the Army, or the Navy or the Air Force for compliance.
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I joined for full spectrum dominance. And there is no way on God's
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green Earth I'm giving up these secrets that we have here because they could give
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superiority to the Chinese and the Russians. So I don't care what subpoenas say,
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I don't care what the constitution says. I'm here. You want me
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on that wall, you need me on that wall and I'm going to do
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a code read. I'm not going to give that stuff up. What say
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you to right? Generally, yeah, I agree with that definitely to a
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certain extent. And when you look at like crash retrievals, right, I
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think there's a misconception of like crash retrievals because many in the community think,
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oh, well, you know, when they think crash retrieval, they get
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this idea and this thought that you know, it's something of like modern times
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that you know, the military witness this craft going down or they saw it
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on the radar and they immediately got went and got it. Well, that's
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not necessarily accurate. A crash retrieval could be something that was dug up in
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an archaeological dig. It doesn't matter how long the craft has been there,
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from the time that you find it, it's still going to be considered a
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crash retrieval. So if I if I mean you right now, Paul went
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to say Iraq and did an archaeological dig and we found some inchient technology that
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is in the form of some sort of craft, would that not be considered
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a crash retrieval? Yeah? I would. And here's another thing. Let's
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say that there's a craft retrieved at Roswell. Roswell is not far from White
18:30
Sands Air Force Base, which is a nuclear facility that's not under the purview
18:36
of the United States Air Force, that's under the control of the Nuclear Regulatory
18:41
Commission, and they do not have to follow any kind of subpoena to the
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Pentagon. They're a different agency with a different, completely different classification system.
18:55
So even if you and I the Air Force generals, decide to cough up
19:00
some tidbits of secrets, that doesn't impact anything that's controlled by the Nuclear Regulatory
19:06
Commission. Yeah. I think a lot of these words and these buzzwords that
19:12
fly around the community have alternate meanings, different meanings, and the public things
19:18
that they mean one thing when they're actually talking about and are in reference to
19:23
something completely different. Yeah, Like let's take you know, reverse engineering as
19:33
an example, or alien invasion as an example, or you know, you
19:41
know, fake alien invasion or national security threat. Now it's possible that people
19:49
talk about a national security threat because it's like what you just mentioned, like,
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well, maybe is possible that the reason that we don't disclose these things
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is because if another country found out about it, then we would be exposed.
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Right, that might actually be the national security threat that people are talking
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about. Not a national security threat because there's extraterrestrials flying around in our airspace,
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but a national security threat in the way that if people, if other
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countries find out what the technology really is, then it leaves the United States
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exposed. Yeah, and I just don't think the military is going to give
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up any secrets. And if they had, if the military has captured saucers
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and figure out the technology, they'd be speaking English in Beijing and Moscow by
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now. We're not going to sit on that. We're going to use that.
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So either they've got saucerers and they don't know what to do with them,
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or they don't have saucers. As far as I see it, I
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think if we do have the craft, we don't know how to maneuver.
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I mean, there's several advanced military drones that are unpiloted drones. Maybe they
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haven't figured out a way to put a human being inside of the craft and
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be able to move it around. But there is several advanced, highly advanced
21:19
military drones that look very similar to what people would consider the UF Sure,
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and you know, it's not. It's a very difficult matter. Let's say
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we have a saucer somewhere and it has some type of anti gravity propulsion system.
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Even if we figured out how that works, how do we make that
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interface with our current power grid. It might not It might use something completely
21:47
different for energy. So it's extraordinarily difficult, I think, to integrate some
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foreign technology that is so far advanced beyond into anything that we have. Oh
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yeah, and our technology is always changing. I mean every year you get
22:07
a new port on your freaking phone, you know. So what's to say
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in one hundred to two hundred years that all the technology that we think that
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we have right now is so advance won't be obsolete. I mean, look
22:18
at floppy desk. Nobody has uses a floppy desk anymore, but back in
22:22
the nineties that was what everyone used to store all their information on as a
22:26
floppy desk. Now, when it has a floppy disk or use the floppy
22:30
desk drive anymore, you know, it's obsolete now. So I think people
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thinking that, you know, we're at the height of our technology right now
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is completely a ridiculous assumption, because in even in another ten years, the
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technology that we're using right now is probably going to be obsolete. So I
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think one hundred years in the future, what's it going to be like?
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People are going to look at at an external hard drive and be like,
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what is this? Well, I didn't even do anything with this. I
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think the delta between captured alien technology and our own would seem like the difference
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between a quantum computer and a fire And how do we if we're at the
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level of fire, how do we even begin to understand, much less control
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some type of quantum computer. We don't even have the ability to understand the
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concept, much less the engineering. Then you get the thought of like ancient
23:34
civilizations and how supposedly people have theorized that ancient civilizations were highly advanced technologically,
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Well, that doesn't mean that they were using the types of technology that we
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have right now. It could be a completely different way, a completely different
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version of advanced technology that we completely couldn't understand in today's time. You know,
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even if we found some version of a highly advanced ancient technology, that
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doesn't mean that we would be able to figure it out, because it would
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be in my thoughts and my idea, it would be completely different to anything
24:15
that we have now. Yeah, I mean that makes more since then this
24:25
ancient civilization following along. I think that we assume that, you know,
24:30
as today in our age right now, that these people were following the same
24:36
directory in the same direction that we are currently following. And that doesn't have
24:41
to be the case. It's probably not the case. And then when you
24:48
look at you know, this this alien invasion stuff too, and like you
24:53
can take you can take the the word illegal and then and just tack it
25:00
on to the front of alien and it becomes a completely different word. I
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mean, you look around. You know how many people have talked about how
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they're among us. They've always been here. They're all around as right.
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Well, they have what's to the south of the United States, Mexico,
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What's to the north of the United States Canada. You know, if I
25:26
go to another country, I'm an alien. And if I go into another
25:32
country illegally, I'm an illegal alien. I'm not from that country across borders
25:38
that get into that country. So they play around with a lot of these
25:44
words when I think that they mean something completely different. Wits your thoughts,
25:48
I don't know. I mean the government has the US government has always engaged
25:55
in disinformation about UFOs, and I think they always will. I don't.
26:00
I don't think, nor do I care if they're going to hold another hearing
26:04
and disclose this or that. I don't trust them and I don't expect them
26:10
to actually divulge significant information, probably for our lifetimes. I agree with that.
26:18
And there's always this this thing in the background of the disclosure community.
26:25
To the people are seem to always be like, oh, well, something's
26:30
going to happen, happen soon, the government's going to disclose something soon.
26:34
And that's been a common trend through ufology going dating back to the early twenties.
26:41
With Charles Fort he was seen in the early twenties that he felt like
26:47
something was going to happen soon and then nothing ever happens. Well, it's
26:52
the UFO version of Jesus coming back. Yes, sure, I don't know
26:57
which one will happen first. Well, according to Charles, yeah, Charles
27:07
Samuel Eden Thompson one of the very first contact he's in the United States and
27:10
Washington in nineteen fifty he said that Jesus will he was told by the Venetians
27:18
and he was on their craft for approximately three days. He was told by
27:22
the Venetians from this from the planet Venus that landed and contacted him, that
27:27
Jesus will be returning. I think in the year of ten thousand, I
27:33
believe is what he said. That's a long time. I mean that Jesus
27:41
is hanging out on Venus. Now what a lot of these contacts? Do
27:48
you say? That Jesus and Krishna are from Venus and that Satan is from
27:53
Mars And wow, well I can't find it. But Samuel Eaton Thompson,
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Oh here it is. Okay, pull this up, screams Samuel and Thompson.
28:25
Okay, so Samuel at and Thompson a railroad worker in the seventies.
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Thompson claimed that on the evening of March twenty eighth, nineteen fifty, while
28:33
driving his home in Washington, he came across a large flying saucer in the
28:37
woods. A saucer, he claimed, was about eighty feet across and thirty
28:41
feet tall. Two naked, deeply tanned humans in the form of were very
28:47
attractive. We're playing near the craft's entrance. Thompson claimed that he had approached
28:51
within fifty feet of the saucer, which admitted a strong sunlike heat. Several
28:55
naked adults humanoids attractive and very deeply tanned, then appeared at the craft stoor.
29:00
After realizing Thompson meant them no harm, they beckoned him closer. The
29:03
crew consisted of twenty adults and twenty five children and later about five to ten
29:07
five to fifteen years of age. Thompson clean He spent the next forty hours
29:12
with the humanoids that they were from Venus, he learned, and had stopped
29:17
at Earth, despite the fact that other Venetian saucers had been shot down by
29:22
Earth based military forces. The Venetians said that all the Earth's problems stinned from
29:26
astrology. Humans were born under different star signs, while the Venetians were all
29:30
born under the sign of Venus, as was Thompson. The Venetians further claim,
29:36
said Thompson, that they were vegetarian and they never grew ill. Thompson
29:40
also claimed that the Venetians were naive and childlike, They did not know who
29:44
built their sorcers, and seemed to possess little to no curiosity. Thompson claimed,
29:48
yeah, I was right. Thompson claimed that he was the first of
29:52
many Earthlings who would meet the Venetians, and that after humanity had seen the
29:56
wisdom of the Venetian ways, Jesus Christ would return in twenty a D.
30:02
Ten ten thousand a D. Sorry, wow, I did not know that
30:07
the Venetians were vegetarians. Vegetarians never grew ill claim that Christ is going to
30:15
return in ten thousand AD, so last that long. I know, that's
30:22
some that's some bad news for the Christians. They got a long time to
30:26
wait for the return to Christ on them and then you better put down that
30:29
burger. So we've kind of danced around this concept of maybe some of these
30:40
craft aren't from outer space, that not all that they're possibly not from outer
30:47
space, like your dadgy Alan Heinik I kind of proposed, and others have
30:52
proposed as well, Josh Fella being one one of those later on in his
30:56
career, and several other people throughout this time period have come to the conclusion
31:03
that a lot of these craft aren't extra terrestrial craft. And there's been a
31:07
lot of conclusions and a lot of thoughts and ideas that well, if they're
31:11
not from outer space, they must be interdimensional, they must be extra dimensional.
31:15
And now we have new names like ultradimensional and super ultramega invisible dimensional from
31:22
the fifth and to the twelfth dimension. Lyonn Palladian people, what's your personal
31:32
thoughts based off of the information that you have with your dad all the study
31:37
and the research. Are you on board with the crypto terrestrial theory? Are
31:42
you on with the interdimensional theory? Are you on with the space aliens from
31:48
outer space theory? Or is it all the above? Yeah? Again,
31:52
I'm not so big on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. It doesn't make a lot of
31:57
sense to me. So more towards something from Earth or some other dimension another
32:02
dimension makes a lot of sense to me because we have a lot of reports
32:07
of craft just appearing and then disappearing, like the cheshire cat in Alice in
32:13
Wonderland, And to me, if they're from another dimension, it makes makes
32:19
a lot more sense than extraterrestrial. That would explain how they would find us
32:22
because they are adjacent in some way and maybe related to us in some other
32:28
way. So I like that much better than entities getting hopping aboard a spaceship
32:36
and the zeta reticulate and coming all this way and scaring some animals at night
32:40
and leaving. What do you think of Carl Young's thought an idea surrounding the
32:49
phenomenon, CHORL Young's work. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's fascinating.
32:59
All I know for sure is that a reasonable person can look at the
33:02
evidence and conclude there's something beyond the pale of normalcy here. And I believe
33:12
it's beyond our historical and current technological capabilities. I believe the answer lies not
33:21
in the Pentagon, but beyond that. Could it be something in the mind,
33:25
you know, as Carl Jung and Jacques Vla believes a lot in sort
33:29
of the consciousness aspect certainly could be. It's you know, I think it
33:37
was Richard Fiman and said there are two kinds of people in the world,
33:38
those who are okay with questions they cannot answer, and those who are not
33:44
okay with their answers being questioned. And if you're going to be serious and
33:50
look at the UFO field, I think you have to be ready to embrace
33:54
a phenomena and not know where it comes from. Now, a lot of
34:01
people feel they have personal revelations from extraterrestrials or interdimensionals, and that could be
34:07
part of it. I don't know, but I really don't know where they
34:12
come from, but I lean towards interdimensional It just seems to be the most
34:15
naturally elegant solution to me. Have you ever met a what you could consider
34:23
an extraterrestrial under the influence of a psychedelic substance? I have communicated with what
34:36
I feel to be a far superior intelligence while taking DMT absolutely And what was
34:46
that like? Would that core lead to any other experiencers that said that they
34:54
have experienced this type of phenomenon? Was it similar to anything that you had
35:00
heard anyone talk about that may or may not have been under the influence of
35:07
the psychedelic substance. Mine was a little bit different. I didn't see entities.
35:14
I just felt the intelligence pulsing all around me, and I asked,
35:20
are you what we perceived to be UFOs and aliens? And I felt like
35:25
trillions of miles of synapses of neurons firing, And the answer came back to
35:31
me, we can't explain in a way that you would understand. And I
35:37
thought, well, look, if DMT machine elves are related to UFO aliens,
35:45
yeah, I could see how that connective tissue would be beyond my ability
35:50
to understand so yeah, thank you. So I felt emboldened by that because
35:55
one of the common aspects of people who DMT is that it feels hyper real.
36:02
And I'm a big fan of my friend Andrew Gallimore and his books on
36:07
the topic. He's a neuroscientist who theorizes that indeed DMT is not hallucinogenic,
36:15
but it's actually revelatory that you're seeing things in a very real universe that our
36:22
day to day waking brain is not attuned to see. And by virtue of
36:28
taking DMT and perhaps other psychedelics, you're able to see the world through a
36:34
different filter that's no less real, but that we're not just tuned into seeing
36:40
in our day to day life. That makes a lot of sense. Now,
36:47
how much do you think of this phenomenon, because I'm kind of under
36:53
the impression, Paul, and you can you can disagree with me or not
36:58
agree with me, But I personally believe that a lot of these contact ees,
37:06
the people that have claimed to be in contact with supposed extraterrestrials, whether
37:13
that be aliens, angels, any of these types of things, could possibly
37:23
be leaving out a crucial thing in their experience that they were under the influence
37:36
of some form of drug. What do you think of that. Well,
37:40
look, in the case the DMT, it's just about the most powerful psychedelic
37:45
drugs. So you can't rule out the possibility that what you're experiencing isn't what
37:51
we would say is objectively real, but as the result of a very powerful
37:55
neurochemical impacting your brain. So one of my goals is to help people who
38:07
take d MT or who say they see ghosts or aliens with a protocol to
38:13
help them demonstrate, hey, this is objectively real. Here's evidence that demonstrates
38:20
the reality of these encounters beyond my feeling that it's real. And I think
38:25
that would that would be a watershed moment if we're able to do that,
38:31
right, I just think that, I mean, I don't think that there's
38:37
really anything wrong with using these substances to you know, have these sorts of
38:45
experiences, but excluding that from what you're talking about, or not what you're
38:52
talking about, what other people clean that they're talking about, that they're meeting
38:58
these extraterrestrials, that these trestrials are coming into their room, and if they
39:02
were on some form of psychedelic then to me, it seems like fraud not
39:12
to include that into the discussion. I don't think anybody who is theorizing that
39:22
the experiences under DMT or other psychedelics might be real is discounting the possibility that
39:27
you're hallucinating. I don't. I've never heard anybody say that that's good.
39:34
That's good because I mean, if you know, it's just sketchy. If
39:40
you know something like you know, say a channel er, right, or
39:45
someone that claims to have these types of experiences every night in they're in their
39:49
bedroom, that these extra tresturials surround them, or that they're in communication with
39:53
the Galactic Federation of Light or the Brotherhood of Light or the thirty three Confederation
40:00
Planet of Venus, right, And they are indeed under the influence of a
40:08
psychedelic substance, and they're not disclosing the fact that they're under a psychedelic substance,
40:16
and they're excluding that idea. Well, I mean, what they've done,
40:22
then that seems very disingenuous to me. Oh, sure, of course
40:27
it is to me. Eyewitness accounts, whether you admit you're on a psychedelic
40:35
or you're not on a psychedelic, don't really mean a lot. It's just
40:39
you could have a hallucination a broad daylight, completely sober with no drug in
40:46
your system. You could be mistaken, you could be lying, you could
40:52
be a religious zealot. There's all sorts of reasons that you may claim to
40:57
see something that wasn't there. So for me, I want to help experiencers
41:02
bring back evidence to suggest that this experience was objectively real, no matter what
41:08
you may or may not have been taking. That's immaterial at that point,
41:14
right. I agree with that, And also the idea and the thought that
41:19
you can unlock like natural DMT in your brain, that seems like a lot
41:23
of people don't really know about that. You can do breathing extra sciences,
41:29
you can get in float tanks, you can have a psychedelic experience without actually
41:37
taking a drug. Well, I think you can have, and I've done
41:42
century deprivation tanks, I've done breathwork. I think you can have powerful experience
41:46
with those. But I don't think it's been demonstrated conclusively that they unlock DMT
41:52
in your Pinneo bland. That's what a lot of people think, but I
41:55
don't think there's enough evidence to demonstrate that. We know that. For sure
42:00
not not to downplay any experiences along those lines, because I did breathwork and
42:04
it blew me away just a few minutes of breathing in a certain way,
42:07
and I couldn't believe how intense that experience was. Yeah, it is really
42:13
intense. I've done a lot of breath work and I've gotten close to getting
42:16
outside of my body, but never quite got there. Have you had a
42:22
regular astral experiences like outside of your body or out of body experiences? Some
42:34
not nothing that I would I would write home about, but I will say
42:38
that I'm the CFO for the Monroe Institute, which was started by Robert Monroe,
42:44
who's a pioneer in the field of you know, as he called his
42:49
first part, journeys out of the Body. So I'm helping this fantastic nonprofit,
42:54
the Monroe Institute, get their technology out there, sound technology, buy
43:00
and oral beats and other things to help people to facilitate these types of experiences.
43:07
It's really interesting. I've done a deep dive into the remote viewing the
43:13
government remote viewing contract, and it turns out that Army Intelligence paid the Monroe
43:20
Institute. I believe it was two thousand dollars I'd have to recheck that to
43:25
take some of their army personnel to go study with Robert Monroe. But those
43:34
programs kind of get confused because you have the Gateway Project, which was the
43:39
Monroe Institute, and you have the Stargate Project, and a lot of people
43:44
think that well, I'm guessing that some people think that they were a part
43:47
of the Stargate project when they really weren't a part of the Stargate project.
43:51
They were just a part of the Monroe Gateway program, which just calls some
43:59
confusion within how everything is in confusion of so can where can people get those
44:07
original tapes from the Monroe Institute of there? Because it's hemi sync technology,
44:13
right, it's frequency technology, And I've heard that you may have to have
44:20
like a specific kind of headphones to hear the frequencies properly to take advantage of
44:28
binaural beats. Yeah, so you either need speakers, different speakers or headphones
44:32
because what they do is broadcast one frequency for one ear and a different frequency
44:39
for another ear, and your brain has to start and train them and that
44:44
helps facilitate data delta and theta waves. So yes, you can't just do
44:49
it from one speaker on the phone. Mmm, I don't know if it
44:57
was. I think it was something that was looking up the other day.
44:59
There's something about headphones. They've they've taken out some of the frequencies within headphones.
45:05
You'd have to get like an order pair of headphones because that's the best
45:07
way to do it, right, is to listening to the frequencies through headphones
45:12
and not through a speaker, right, you would want to Well, if
45:15
you're in a room with speakers on either side, it works fine too,
45:19
But as long as you're you have stereo headphones, it'll work. Now,
45:25
the goal of that is to get outside of your body correct and do say
45:29
out of body experience. Not necessarily it's too to create let's say an atmosphere
45:37
that can be used for leaving your body, but can just do be highly
45:43
meditative and calming and you know, introspective as well. That's interesting. So
45:51
the it can uh like rewire your brain in a possible pot positive ways.
46:00
What you're saying, Yeah, I think rewire is a bit scary of a
46:04
term, but yeah, I mean it can create a beneficial effect on your
46:09
neurochemistry in a way that you can then do more or go deeper inside and
46:19
have a lot of beneficial impact for you. Yeah, I agree, I've
46:24
Does the Monroe Institute still do Do they still have a facility where people can
46:30
oh yeah, yeah in Favor Virginia And there are residential programs that are also
46:37
online and virtual reality programs that they have going on all the time. Silent
46:43
Voice is saying not interested in people who haven't done it. He's referring to
46:46
DMT. Well, Paul just said that he's done DMT. I've done DMT
46:51
too. I did it for four and a half years ago. I did
46:53
Buffo. I'm a very big proponent of d MT, very big fan.
47:02
Yeah. I mean my first experience and that was my only time, and
47:07
it was super scary, so I'm never going to do it again. Yeah.
47:15
I've been with people who didn't receive adequate warning, and it can feel
47:20
like you're skydiving and going up because it's just so overwhelming of a freight train,
47:25
and it can the onset can be so sudden and so strong that even
47:32
if you've done other psychedelics before, you can just feel overwhelmed. I think
47:37
Terrence McKenna has a lot of great quotes about DMT, but he said,
47:43
the only thing you really have to fear is death by astonishment because it's so
47:49
overwhelming, especially the first time. If you do a strong kind of it,
47:53
like buffo or synthetic or a strong changa, even if you're told it
47:59
comes like a freight tran, you just can't understand how fast and how strong
48:05
it can be. It is super powerful. And when I did it,
48:09
I was speaking to you about this before we started the show. I inhaled
48:15
very deeply, and I didn't know that you weren't supposed to hail inhale really
48:17
fast. I wasn told that you're supposed to do it super slow, and
48:22
then I just got stuck in this weird like white void like there was there
48:30
was nothing, Yeah, just nothing there. But I was told that you
48:36
have to kind of exit out of that nothing realm, and whenever you completely
48:40
let go, you kind of bust out of that white nothing realm. Is
48:45
that? Have you been into the the white void before? Yeah, I've
48:50
been as several kinds of voids black white, and then sort of the more
48:54
sort of chonga level breakthrough multicolored tunnel and then you're in some kind of realm.
49:02
And I've also done with a vap pen, which is keeping your eyes
49:07
open and you're not sort of leaving your body or leaving the room, but
49:13
you're interacting with the room kind of more like acid or psilocybin, where you're
49:17
still there. You still understand that I'm in a room, there are people
49:22
here. You may not be the most engaging conversationalist at that point, as
49:27
you're just like WHOA. The Buddha poster on the wall is pulsing in and
49:31
out, but you're still there. So I think there's a lot of benefit
49:36
into trying that whole spectrum of experiences, from DMT itself to changa ayahuasca,
49:42
vape pen, synthetic buffo, all that I think is immensely valuable for people.
49:47
I caution people not to do it until they're ready in a very safe
49:52
environment with people who know what they're doing, so that you don't have that
49:58
overwhelming experience that beyond what you're ready to do. The Candace is seen that
50:05
once was enough for her too. She was in a black void. Yeah,
50:10
you know, it's it's not always pleasant, and you know, I
50:15
don't do it always to have a pleasant experience. I do it for both
50:20
therapy because I think it's valid plant medicine. But also I'm on a quest
50:25
to see if there's a relationship between DMT and UFOs and ghosts. That's my
50:30
jam. I'm not able to summon UFOs like a Close Encounters of the Fifth
50:36
kind, but I am able to create a ceremony and do DMT and experience
50:44
that, so that's my I've had some experiences that were overwhelming. I remember
50:51
one time I was thinking to myself, my brain chemistry has been fundamentally rewired.
50:58
I just can never go back to life on Earth. I just can't.
51:01
And I wasn't sad, I wasn't happy. It was just a matter
51:04
of fact. And fifteen minutes later, I'm looking at my phone checking ways
51:08
for traffic to go home, completely normal again. Yeah. I've had a
51:16
near death experience that was like that where I entered into the to the black
51:22
void thing. Scandue for your comment and being a member, I really appreciate
51:27
you. I had a NEARNR death experience where it was very difficult for me
51:30
to come back into this into this three D physical existence where because in this
51:38
black void like everything was like super peaceful, right, it was just like
51:44
everything was just amazing, even though there wasn't anything. Even though it was
51:49
just a void, it was like peaceful, like the weight of the world.
51:52
It lifted up off of your shoulders. There wasn't any pain or anything
51:57
like that. And then I had to like fight myself to come back into
52:00
this three D physical reality because I didn't think I thought that whatever was in
52:07
that black void was more real than this three D physical reality. I thought
52:15
that this three D physical reality was fake. Yeah, that's what people often
52:20
feel. And again, it doesn't mean that it's objectively occurring. It couldn't
52:23
just be a hallucination. But many people feel that when they're what the experience
52:30
when taking DMT is hyper real. It's a very common sensation that you can't
52:37
shake. But again for me, one person including me, who says,
52:42
hey, I saw something and I know it's real, that doesn't mean anything.
52:45
So I'm trying to gather evidence, like information from the DMT entities that
52:52
they shouldn't have or that I don't have that go beyond my abilities. If
52:57
I can bring back answers to factoring very large prime numbers or solving a math
53:01
problem that we can't solve, I can then go to the scientific community and
53:07
say, look, I've got information I shouldn't have. They would look at
53:12
that and they're not going to say, oh, well that proves aliens.
53:15
They'll say, well, yeah, you have information you shouldn't have. Let's
53:17
take a look and see how you got that. So my interests I don't
53:22
care about the government. This train has left the station, and if they
53:25
want to jump on the camboose and follow us, that's great. But the
53:29
real progress is made, I feel, by uniting the experiencer communities and mainstream
53:35
science and for us to learn how to talk in ways that science understands the
53:40
evidence that we've collected so far about UFOs, whether it's crop circles or strange
53:45
alloys or star maps, this doesn't mean anything to science. So what I
53:50
want to do is inculcate in experience your communities science friendly ways to influence.
53:58
Because you can't really control all these situations, maybe you can influence them and
54:02
ask questions the answers of which would be interesting to scientists. Because if we
54:07
can get scientists to say, hey, there's something really weird going on here,
54:10
I need to look at this more and get them talking with us,
54:15
then I think we can make really qualitative progress. How do you map out
54:22
the DMT world though, When a DMT trip is a standard fifteen minutes,
54:30
maybe less, maybe just slightly more, is there a way to induce the
54:37
DMT trip to last longer? Yeah, my friend Andrew Delamore and Rick Strassman
54:45
have collaborated to create what they call DMTX, which are extended intravenously given sessions
54:53
that can last in an hour or more. Yeah, that would be the
55:00
way to do it, because I feel like a regular DMT trip is not
55:04
long enough to collect or get all the information. But if you have several
55:07
people going in for hours at a time, probably make the research a little
55:13
bit easier because even if you do it a lot, it just takes a
55:16
little while to just understand what's going on again, because it's so overwhelming.
55:22
Marco Rodriguez in a paper talked about a protocol to ask the DMT machine Elves
55:30
to factor a very large prime number that he provides to them, and then
55:35
either he comes back with the answer, or even more interestingly, somebody else
55:39
comes back with that answer. That would show not only that some intelligence is
55:46
able to answer questions that a human can't, but one human asks them and
55:51
another human brings back the answer that would be fascinating. That would be really
55:55
fascinating. Now, excuse me, as anybody ever re ported during a DMT
56:04
trip that they have met another person that's been on a DMT trip. Yeah,
56:12
I think people have said that. And one of the things that's interesting
56:15
to me about DMT is that, unlike other psychedelics I've drawn, when I
56:21
do it, often I'll feel like I'm in the same realm and it welcomes
56:24
me back, sometimes by name, so it feels like it's always there and
56:30
you can tap into it when you want. But other psychedelics I've drawn,
56:36
it's just like a different feeling. I might feel connected to the tree there,
56:39
oh I see, you know, a vortex opening up in the wall,
56:43
what have you. But with DMT, it just feels like there is
56:49
a realm that's either that you go to or that's created in your brain or
56:53
what have you, that's always there. It's a very different feeling for me.
57:00
That's really interesting because we've heard of like collective or multiple psilocybin trips where
57:07
people kind of experience the same thing, and of course like dreaming, uh,
57:13
you know, people have collective dreams of the same thing, or see
57:15
each other in their dreams and interact with each other in their dreams and then
57:19
you know, wake up and like talk about it. I'd say, kind
57:23
of a common thing. But doing that in a DMT state, I think
57:28
is very telling of the possibilities that is actually going on and what that means,
57:37
I don't really know. Yeah, you know, you know, until
57:44
someone can come back in a way that is controlled enough for the satisfaction of
57:50
scientists with information that they shouldn't have and to do it in a repeated basis
57:57
and to indicate it is indeed information very difficult answers that are coming back to
58:05
this human or to another human while taking DMT. We just don't know what's
58:12
happening there. It could be some elaborate chemical adaptation of your brain that's making
58:17
all this. We don't know, But I aim to find out what's the
58:22
most profound We're going to end on this, what's the most profound thing that
58:28
as you mentioned earlier, that you would ask the DMT entities if what they
58:35
are is you know, UFOs or what we personify to be UFOs or extraterrestrials
58:42
or aliens, was not the most that couldn't have been the most profound thing
58:47
that you ask these DMT entities, Right, Yeah, that's the most profound
58:54
thing, sort of the most profound communication I've had, just the feelings,
59:00
whether real or not, that I've had of just like watching the fabric of
59:07
the universe being created right in front of me and feeling like there is no
59:12
place that's more central, that's home, that that is like ground zero for
59:19
the universe, and I'm watching it, and the entities who are creating the
59:24
universe stop and welcome me by name. It's a really freaking cool sensation that
59:31
the most powerful entities in the world look over their shoulders and see me and
59:37
say, hey, Paul, how are you. It's amazing. Did it
59:42
start with a big bang? You know, my brother did an experience once
59:50
where he set his intention to see the Big Bang and he felt that he
59:54
was taken on this tour of galaxies being born and he was guided by this
1:00:00
big red hand of God. That would be quite an experience, quite an
1:00:10
experience. Wow, well, Paul, thanks so much for coming on.
1:00:15
Really appreciate your time listening. Can you let people know one more time about
1:00:19
your the lectures that you're going to be giving at this year's contact in the
1:00:24
Desert May thirtieth through June third. Yeah, so I'll be on a couple
1:00:30
of panels and I'm moderating a panel with George Nuri, Richard Dolan, Linda
1:00:35
Molten, Howe Russell, targ Whitley Strieber, and then I'm giving talks about
1:00:44
UFOs, about bitcoin, UFOs and d MT and again about how to show
1:00:50
to demonstrate that your experiences are indeed objectively real. So I hope people that
1:00:57
are interested. Click the link in the description to get your tickets for the
1:01:00
twenty twenty four contact and the Desert number ACTS ten in Indian Wells, California.
1:01:07
Really great lineup of speakers. Paul will be there this year again,
1:01:13
that is May thirtieth through June third. Get your tickets now and I will
1:01:16
be there. Come through and say hi. The link to the on sell
1:01:21
tickets are in the description of this video, and if you use promo code
1:01:23
Earth ten you'll get an extra ten percent off that ticket price. And thank
1:01:29
you everyone for being here. I really appreciate everyone in the chat. Scottie
1:01:32
Boy, Candace and thanks so much for being a writer Ranger channel member.
1:01:37
Please be sure to hit the thumbs up button to help the channel in the
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and we will see you guys next time. Paul stay with me.