Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 179 - Dan Donlin

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Recovery Chronicles Ep. 179 - Dan Donlin · Recovery Chronicles

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to Recovery Chronicles. My name is Johan Trigg and
0:07
Speaker 1: my sober date is June seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Join me
0:12
Speaker 1: as we hear from people who are on this journey
0:14
Speaker 1: that we call recovery. Well, welcome to this episode of
0:22
Speaker 1: Recovery Chronicles. This is Joan Trigg, and today I have
0:25
Speaker 1: with me my friend and community leader Dan Donlin.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome, Dan, Hi, Joan, thanks for asking me to be
0:33
Speaker 2: a part of this. This is really exciting.
0:35
Speaker 1: Absolutely No, I'm glad that it worked out for us
0:38
Speaker 1: to visit, and I've had the opportunity to know you
0:41
Speaker 1: for quite some time, and I'm so glad that that
0:45
Speaker 1: our paths did cross and that just had a chance
0:48
Speaker 1: to learn more about you. And that's why it's really
0:52
Speaker 1: important for us to talk today in terms of your
0:56
Speaker 1: involvement in the community and specifically somewhat her few now too.
1:01
Speaker 1: So let's just dig right into it. Let's get started
1:04
Speaker 1: a little bit about tell me a little bit about
1:07
Speaker 1: how you got involved into law enforcement, Like where did
1:10
Speaker 1: that start?
1:11
Speaker 2: Well, I was young at one point and needed a job.
1:15
Speaker 2: I had a bunch of friends that worked in law enforcement.
1:17
Speaker 2: I had family members that worked in law enforcement as well.
1:20
Speaker 2: So I would just it's one of those kids growing
1:22
Speaker 2: up you kind of thought about wanting to be a
1:24
Speaker 2: police officer, you know, quite a bit of the time.
1:27
Speaker 2: As I went to college, graduated and looking at sales
1:30
Speaker 2: jobs and different things, my heart just got pulled towards
1:33
Speaker 2: law enforcement and ended up applying at some different places
1:38
Speaker 2: and was actually hired at the DOCR. I worked at
1:44
Speaker 2: the Missouri River Correctional Center for three months, very short term,
1:49
Speaker 2: and then ended up switching over to the Bismarck Police
1:52
Speaker 2: Department and then that's where I really got into my
1:54
Speaker 2: law enforcement career.
1:56
Speaker 1: So when you started BISMARDPDI, how many offices surgery you
2:00
Speaker 1: guys have?
2:00
Speaker 2: Then? Oh, man, right now, what popped in my head
2:03
Speaker 2: is around fifty to fifty seven somewhere in there.
2:06
Speaker 1: And that is quite a bit.
2:08
Speaker 2: And now it's like, I think one hundred and fifty. Wow,
2:11
Speaker 2: and some yes, they've really increased in size, and of
2:13
Speaker 2: course the service area and the demand for those resources
2:17
Speaker 2: have increased as well.
2:18
Speaker 1: Sure, well that makes sense. So one of the things
2:21
Speaker 1: I like to ask people is, obviously this is the
2:26
Speaker 1: podcast is revolving around addiction, and it's pretty rare to
2:29
Speaker 1: find someone that hasn't been affected by addiction in some capacity,
2:33
Speaker 1: whether it's a friend, family member, co worker, all of
2:37
Speaker 1: the above. Aside from your work experience obviously, which we'll
2:42
Speaker 1: get into. You know, have you had any other impacts
2:46
Speaker 1: of addiction on your life that have kind of helped
2:49
Speaker 1: you guide your way in terms of working with people
2:52
Speaker 1: from the addiction perspective.
2:54
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think, as you said, Joan, nobody's immune to this.
2:57
Speaker 2: People everybody knows somebody that probably struggles in addiction one
3:01
Speaker 2: way or another. I've had extended family, you know, as
3:05
Speaker 2: well throughout my lifetime, friends, classmates, acquaintances, way too many
3:14
Speaker 2: to be counted really, and even just recently in this
3:18
Speaker 2: last year, I've had one longtime friend who passed away,
3:23
Speaker 2: died from overdosing. And you know, also what runs into
3:27
Speaker 2: this that I've learned and have come to, you know,
3:31
Speaker 2: I don't want to say appreciate, but have paid attention to,
3:34
Speaker 2: is the trauma that people go through, whether it's psychological,
3:37
Speaker 2: physical trauma, emotions and things like that. And I had
3:40
Speaker 2: one gal who's a friend for years and years ago
3:45
Speaker 2: and she ended up dying of an overdose and now
3:49
Speaker 2: just recently her adult son, who was struggling with her
3:54
Speaker 2: loss as well and was struggling with addiction also died
3:57
Speaker 2: of it overdose. So it is a impacted me in
4:02
Speaker 2: personal and professional ways most of my career in life.
4:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, and unfortunately you said, we
4:09
Speaker 1: all can say that from some capacity, and it definitely
4:15
Speaker 1: strikes you differently, but it hurts.
4:18
Speaker 2: It does, absolutely. Yeah. And then professionally of course, you
4:22
Speaker 2: know the different things that I've seen there too, so
4:24
Speaker 2: I know we'll get into that as well.
4:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So you know, in terms of what
4:30
Speaker 1: you just talked about from your personal connections and then
4:34
Speaker 1: you know what you've seen throughout the years. You know,
4:36
Speaker 1: how do you think that's helped shape you as far
4:38
Speaker 1: as being a leader in law enforcement and just in
4:43
Speaker 1: our being out in our community.
4:45
Speaker 2: You know, it really taught me quite a bit on
4:49
Speaker 2: the job training of addiction, and you know, not only
4:52
Speaker 2: through our formal training through law enforcement, but I went
4:55
Speaker 2: and looked up stuff on my own, read and researched
4:57
Speaker 2: and learned as well. The whole thing. As far as
5:01
Speaker 2: you know, people have these different perceptions or perspectives. Is
5:06
Speaker 2: it a choice that they're using drugs in or is
5:09
Speaker 2: it actually a disease. You know, that conversation goes back
5:13
Speaker 2: and forth, and I think, for me personally, what I
5:16
Speaker 2: believe and what I think and what I learned through
5:18
Speaker 2: my experiences in over thirty years in law enforcement is
5:21
Speaker 2: of course, it starts out as a choice, that first strength,
5:24
Speaker 2: that first drug that you're going to do. It's a choice.
5:27
Speaker 2: But then that then can turn into very quickly or
5:32
Speaker 2: over time, the actual disease of addiction. So I truly
5:36
Speaker 2: believe that it is a disease. It starts with a choice,
5:39
Speaker 2: but it is a disease. And you know, through my career,
5:42
Speaker 2: I just learned to be empathetic and then to you know,
5:47
Speaker 2: try to be compassionate and really just realize these are
5:50
Speaker 2: human beings. This is someone's son, daughter, mom, dad, aunt, uncle,
5:55
Speaker 2: you know, even grandmas and grandpa's right. You know, I've
5:58
Speaker 2: seen people that's art their story of addiction at young ages,
6:03
Speaker 2: and then I've seen and talked to people who started
6:05
Speaker 2: their story of addiction and experiences in middle aged you know,
6:11
Speaker 2: through whatever reasons, a divorce or other trauma, trauma, loss
6:15
Speaker 2: of parents, different things like that. So that's where I
6:18
Speaker 2: just really learned. But we need to have some compassion
6:21
Speaker 2: and try to work with individuals.
6:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. And it's hard to be compassionate
6:26
Speaker 1: sometimes when when you're working with people and sometimes you
6:31
Speaker 1: see that the hurt that it's causing people. So sometimes
6:33
Speaker 1: it's tough to be on both sides, right, like to
6:36
Speaker 1: be in the enforcement side, but to also be in
6:38
Speaker 1: the compassionate side. It is find that middle grown.
6:42
Speaker 2: And what I always try to come across is, you know,
6:44
Speaker 2: as a law enforcement officer, your job, yep, was to
6:46
Speaker 2: keep the community safe, arrest people if they're breaking the laws,
6:49
Speaker 2: so if they have drugs in their possession or have
6:52
Speaker 2: been using. But again through my career, I also just
6:56
Speaker 2: learned to treat people with respect as long as they
6:59
Speaker 2: were treating the respect. Treat them with respect and dignity
7:03
Speaker 2: is huge. And again we need to allow people to
7:08
Speaker 2: talk about their addiction where that conversation can go back
7:12
Speaker 2: and forth in a non judgmental way. So for me
7:16
Speaker 2: as a police officer to sit there and pass judgment
7:18
Speaker 2: on somebody, well, that's not my job. And really there
7:21
Speaker 2: is are root causes that can lead to this road
7:26
Speaker 2: to addiction or of addiction, and I haven't lived their life,
7:31
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to pass judgment on them. I
7:33
Speaker 2: want to try to do what I can during the
7:35
Speaker 2: time that I have contact with them to help them
7:38
Speaker 2: in any way that I can. Sometimes that's arresting them
7:41
Speaker 2: and hopefully they get the help they need. But just
7:44
Speaker 2: talking to them in a compassionate, dignified, understanding manner is
7:50
Speaker 2: to me what I tried to focus on and be
7:52
Speaker 2: realize how important that is.
7:54
Speaker 1: Sure, So let's talk a little bit about your progression
7:58
Speaker 1: through your career. I know you talked about how you
8:01
Speaker 1: got started into law enforcement. What are some of the
8:06
Speaker 1: you know, the challenges that you that you've been faced with.
8:09
Speaker 1: So just as kind of a note to make sure
8:11
Speaker 1: we're all on the same page. Dan as chief of
8:13
Speaker 1: police prior for the City of Bismarck, now a probation officer.
8:20
Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about, you know, what
8:22
Speaker 1: you've seen along the way in terms of well our
8:25
Speaker 1: community and then just kind of some challenges in terms
8:28
Speaker 1: of even the addiction piece of it. You know, things
8:31
Speaker 1: have definitely evolved, for sure.
8:33
Speaker 2: I absolutely have. With the growth with the oil boom,
8:36
Speaker 2: you know a lot of things that have come to
8:38
Speaker 2: bring more people and with that also in and of
8:42
Speaker 2: itself can bring more addiction issues and crime issues. So
8:46
Speaker 2: the increase you know, in the criminal activity. Obviously at
8:49
Speaker 2: the police department. As I got to the point where
8:52
Speaker 2: I was retired in twenty eighteen after thirty years five
8:55
Speaker 2: and a half as the chief of police, SAW was
8:59
Speaker 2: aware of the diction issues in our community. But I'll
9:02
Speaker 2: tell you what, when I came to Pearle and Probation,
9:05
Speaker 2: it has really also opened my eyes even wider to
9:08
Speaker 2: the number of people actually that are suffering through and
9:12
Speaker 2: with addiction, suffering from traumatic situations you know that also
9:20
Speaker 2: lead to reasons that they're using. It's just the impact
9:26
Speaker 2: that it has too on our community, on the individual themselves,
9:32
Speaker 2: their family, their friends, you know where they work, the courts,
9:37
Speaker 2: corrections in probation. I mean, this effects and the ripple
9:39
Speaker 2: effect just keeps going and going to have that impact.
9:44
Speaker 2: So it's important that we all work together. Another change
9:48
Speaker 2: that I've seen and noticed unfortunately is you know, the THHC,
9:53
Speaker 2: the marijuana of the sixties and seventies is not what's
9:55
Speaker 2: out there today, and it is much more potent, and
9:59
Speaker 2: there can be a whole long discussion on what that means.
10:03
Speaker 2: So that is an issue as well, and then the
10:06
Speaker 2: new drugs that were just you know, in my when
10:08
Speaker 2: I started, marijuana was kind of a big deal. When
10:10
Speaker 2: I started in nineteen eighty eight at the Bismar Police Department,
10:13
Speaker 2: I found meth that was a huge, huge bust or arrest.
10:17
Speaker 2: At this point, now we're seeing so much meth. And
10:20
Speaker 2: then now the progression onto fentanyl, which is extremely deadly
10:25
Speaker 2: and is unfortunately killing way too many people.
10:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, not fentanyl. When we have patients that come through,
10:34
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I don't want to say it's a standard,
10:37
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of people that are battling the
10:39
Speaker 1: fentanyl situation and it's scary, and I think it's it's surprising.
10:45
Speaker 1: It's still surprising to me, and I'm still relatively new
10:48
Speaker 1: at Hartview, but I'm just shocked at how many people
10:50
Speaker 1: just struggle with that drug and how nasty it is.
10:53
Speaker 2: Well, and that's what really opened my eyes at Probation
10:55
Speaker 2: Pearl and Probation was working with our client tele the
11:00
Speaker 2: individuals that we work with. Again, there's somebody's son, daughter, mother, father,
11:05
Speaker 2: Nobody woke up and you know, we grew up and
11:07
Speaker 2: saying geez, I hope I can be addicted when I
11:09
Speaker 2: grow up, you know, it is so devastating, and when
11:13
Speaker 2: I have conversations with some of my clients that struggle
11:16
Speaker 2: with this, again, just try to come from a listening
11:20
Speaker 2: and compassionate standpoint and then provide any advice and guidance
11:23
Speaker 2: and encouragement. You know that I that I can. And
11:26
Speaker 2: that's what most of the probation officers do, and that's
11:28
Speaker 2: the purpose and the reason they're doing what they do.
11:31
Speaker 2: But it's really just to be non judgmental and to
11:35
Speaker 2: be understanding, but to hold them accountable as well to
11:38
Speaker 2: their probation conditions, and of course.
11:40
Speaker 1: Are laws and so I guess I'm asking this because
11:46
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure all of it, but as
11:48
Speaker 1: a probation officer, like you said, the part of the
11:52
Speaker 1: role is accountability, right, to make sure that they're following
11:56
Speaker 1: through with their legal is it court orders? Am I
12:01
Speaker 1: saying that accurately?
12:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, their probation parole or probation conditions in their judgment
12:07
Speaker 2: or what they call the appendix A. That's a part
12:10
Speaker 2: of that court judgment telling them from the judge what
12:13
Speaker 2: they have to do and what they cannot do.
12:15
Speaker 1: Okay, So doing that, but also like sharing resources or
12:19
Speaker 1: things that are available to them.
12:21
Speaker 2: As far as service, absolutely, the probation officers and parole
12:24
Speaker 2: officers we serve a dual role and you just mentioned them.
12:29
Speaker 2: We are helpers. We try to help mentor guide counsel.
12:33
Speaker 2: But in regards to that, it's like referring them to
12:36
Speaker 2: the resources in the community, whether it's you know, they're
12:40
Speaker 2: trying to help guide them to get their evaluation and
12:42
Speaker 2: then follow through with treatment, get them connected to FTR
12:47
Speaker 2: which is Free through Recovery, which are different organizations that
12:51
Speaker 2: assist individuals to get all the things done in the
12:54
Speaker 2: community that they need to take care of. Halfway houses
13:00
Speaker 2: we can refer there as well if things you know
13:03
Speaker 2: aren't going on the right track. But then the sober
13:05
Speaker 2: living homes sure, you know, many individuals that we work
13:08
Speaker 2: with are homeless, don't have any place to live, and
13:11
Speaker 2: they're struggling with the addiction. So again we try to
13:15
Speaker 2: work the best avenue or route possible for each individual case.
13:21
Speaker 2: But our sober living homes in our community are just
13:24
Speaker 2: instrumental in providing assistance and helping many many people get
13:31
Speaker 2: into the recovery world and become productively employed. And you know,
13:36
Speaker 2: good community members.
13:38
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, for sure. So we talk a lot about
13:42
Speaker 1: mental health in regards to like you said before, most
13:47
Speaker 1: people that are battling with addiction, there's some underlying trauma
13:51
Speaker 1: or other situations that they're struggling with. I think that
13:55
Speaker 1: one of the things too, that we've seen through helping
14:00
Speaker 1: people with treatment and with addiction. I can even say
14:02
Speaker 1: this from when I went through treatment, which was about
14:05
Speaker 1: five and a half years ago. Tell now what I
14:08
Speaker 1: see that there's a lot more talking about mental health
14:12
Speaker 1: and how that's being addressed. Now, how did have you
14:16
Speaker 1: seen have you noticed a shift in the approach and
14:19
Speaker 1: more of the even talking about mental health and you know,
14:23
Speaker 1: how does that work for you as far as your
14:25
Speaker 1: role when you're working with your with the folks that
14:28
Speaker 1: you're supervising, I guess so to speak.
14:31
Speaker 2: So for me, it's really and of course, sometimes when
14:34
Speaker 2: I introduced myself for the first time to some clients
14:37
Speaker 2: and then either they already know they've heard or they
14:39
Speaker 2: learn you were a cop, you you were the chief
14:43
Speaker 2: of police, you know, things like that, But I quickly
14:45
Speaker 2: break that down and I don't want that to be
14:48
Speaker 2: a barrier at all, So I really just take it
14:51
Speaker 2: to the to try to really humanize our conversation. I
14:54
Speaker 2: am not here to judge. I am here as that
14:57
Speaker 2: one role we talked about is being the helper role.
15:00
Speaker 2: The other role that we play for pro and probation
15:03
Speaker 2: are the law enforcement officers were sworn officers to uphold
15:06
Speaker 2: the law and again hold them to their conditions. But
15:09
Speaker 2: I really try to tell them that I want to
15:11
Speaker 2: remain in that realm of helper role as much as
15:15
Speaker 2: I can with you, but you're the one that makes
15:17
Speaker 2: the decisions. You need to let us know if you're
15:20
Speaker 2: struggling with some things so we can try to help
15:22
Speaker 2: guide you in those ways. So that's the part that
15:25
Speaker 2: I really like, is you hit the nail on the
15:28
Speaker 2: head with being able to talk about it. And that's
15:32
Speaker 2: the first thing that I try to do is open
15:33
Speaker 2: up that conversation. I'm coming from a very non judgmental aspect.
15:39
Speaker 2: We need to break down the stigma of drug addiction
15:43
Speaker 2: and mental health so they feel comfortable talking about it
15:47
Speaker 2: without being judged, right, yeah.
15:50
Speaker 1: No, for sure, and making it just part of it's
15:54
Speaker 1: a normal, okay thing to talk about.
15:57
Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely didn't necessarily start in a day, a week,
16:03
Speaker 2: a month. It's not going to end just like that, right, Okay,
16:08
Speaker 2: I'll quit. It's just not that easy most of the time.
16:11
Speaker 1: Well, and wouldn't that be something, But that's yeah, for
16:14
Speaker 1: sure that that's not happening. But I'm glad that we're
16:17
Speaker 1: able to have you in place to be able to
16:20
Speaker 1: help people get on the right path and get going.
16:23
Speaker 1: In terms of.
16:24
Speaker 2: That, well, that's all of parole and probation so on,
16:27
Speaker 2: behalf of the entire state that works on this issue
16:32
Speaker 2: with these clients. I appreciate that.
16:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. So when let's shift a little
16:38
Speaker 1: bit about but we're going to backtrack a bit when
16:41
Speaker 1: with your role when you were chief of police and
16:44
Speaker 1: when we at Heartview brought in the method on clinic,
16:48
Speaker 1: that was a pretty big deal in the community, and
16:52
Speaker 1: I know that you were instrumental in helping with that.
16:55
Speaker 1: Backtrack a little bit about your thoughts on the clinic
16:59
Speaker 1: prior to it being brought to the community and then
17:04
Speaker 1: kind of where we're at now, because a lot of
17:06
Speaker 1: times people's opinions shift for that.
17:08
Speaker 2: So obviously in the beginning I was very ill informed, uninformed, ignorant. However,
17:13
Speaker 2: you want to look at it as far as just
17:14
Speaker 2: not knowing what this meant, listen to people voices in
17:18
Speaker 2: the community. Of course, there was big concern, you know,
17:21
Speaker 2: a lot of this what they call nimby not in
17:24
Speaker 2: my backyard. Well, if you're going to have this clinic,
17:26
Speaker 2: that's fine, you can have it. They might need it,
17:28
Speaker 2: but you're not having it near my house. You're not
17:30
Speaker 2: having it in this downtown area or wherever. So as
17:33
Speaker 2: the police department, we worked through those issues. But we
17:37
Speaker 2: and me specifically, had to really educate ourselves on what
17:41
Speaker 2: truly was this medical assister treatment, the methodone clinics, what
17:45
Speaker 2: did that mean. So our administrative team at the police department,
17:49
Speaker 2: the deputy chiefs and myself, we would go and meet
17:52
Speaker 2: with the people that were looking at doing this and
17:55
Speaker 2: setting these up. There was heartview and there was some
17:58
Speaker 2: other one in the community I think as well that time,
18:01
Speaker 2: and it really was important that we get educated on
18:04
Speaker 2: it because there was a perspective, well, you're just going
18:06
Speaker 2: to have a bunch of drug users, they are going
18:08
Speaker 2: to come down to this area, They're going to get
18:10
Speaker 2: this stuff, they're going to take it out and sell it.
18:14
Speaker 2: All that just kind of went through. So once we
18:16
Speaker 2: were educated and had those discussions and learned what this
18:20
Speaker 2: truly was and the positive impact that it can have
18:23
Speaker 2: on the community. Then we we learned and worked towards,
18:27
Speaker 2: you know, collaborating and trying to get that message out
18:31
Speaker 2: to the community.
18:32
Speaker 1: Sure, and I you know, I with your the folks
18:37
Speaker 1: that do you call your patients or your.
18:38
Speaker 2: Clients for prole and probation their clients, their clients.
18:41
Speaker 1: Okay, so I assume you have some clients that are
18:45
Speaker 1: going through some of our their utilizing method on as well.
18:48
Speaker 1: But you've probably you saw them maybe earlier and saw
18:51
Speaker 1: them now. Yes, so you you even directly, you have
18:56
Speaker 1: seen the impact that it's made. I say that all
19:01
Speaker 1: the time to people when they ask me about methodone.
19:03
Speaker 1: Is I tell people, you know, I've seen folks that
19:07
Speaker 1: have come in in the terrible position that they're in,
19:11
Speaker 1: and then I've seen them later when they're using methodone
19:14
Speaker 1: as part of their treatment program. The difference is substantial.
19:18
Speaker 1: Like you can't different people. It's you're not comparing the
19:20
Speaker 1: same thing.
19:21
Speaker 2: Their alertness, their motivation, everything changes. For me, I have
19:25
Speaker 2: seen too. You know, even from my understanding is even
19:29
Speaker 2: in you know, the addiction community, there's two perspectives out
19:32
Speaker 2: there regarding medically assisted or methodone type treatment. You know,
19:36
Speaker 2: is the one perspective is that all you're just replacing
19:40
Speaker 2: one drug for another. That's not really there's not really clean.
19:44
Speaker 2: But again that is that necessarily what the purpose of
19:47
Speaker 2: the methodone is or what you just discussed, trying to
19:51
Speaker 2: help them to become productive and alert, to be able
19:53
Speaker 2: to get a job. And that's the thing that I've
19:55
Speaker 2: seen that this does is it keeps them from hopefully
19:59
Speaker 2: not all all the time, right it's a personal choice decision,
20:02
Speaker 2: but really keeps them from using those more dangerous drugs.
20:06
Speaker 2: It keeps them productive in working hopefully, and then many
20:10
Speaker 2: are able to even progress into sobriety or through sobriety
20:13
Speaker 2: to eventually quit methodone. But the main thing that I
20:17
Speaker 2: see in the perspective that I came to was it's
20:21
Speaker 2: hopefully going to save them from an overdose, from dying.
20:25
Speaker 2: It keeps them alive, helps guiding them. Again, some may
20:29
Speaker 2: need it longer than others, and I've had clients that
20:32
Speaker 2: have said, you know, I think I'm just going to
20:34
Speaker 2: stay on this. It really helps. And then there's others
20:36
Speaker 2: that I'm going to start to wean off and they
20:38
Speaker 2: work with their counselors and do that right, and.
20:43
Speaker 1: The path is different for every single person, right, so.
20:46
Speaker 2: You know absolutely what works for one is not necessarily
20:49
Speaker 2: going to work for another, right.
20:51
Speaker 1: I think the thing that's most surprising by people that
20:54
Speaker 1: you know, not most, but one of the things is
20:57
Speaker 1: for sure that how they're able to now live a
21:02
Speaker 1: life that they've been hoping to live for a long time.
21:04
Speaker 1: Like I have a job, I have my kids back.
21:07
Speaker 1: I am feeling like I'm actually in a place where
21:12
Speaker 1: I only could have dreamt of being when I was
21:15
Speaker 1: when I was using and when I was an active addiction,
21:18
Speaker 1: and so I just you know, I having that in
21:21
Speaker 1: our community has just been tremendous, and so I'm just
21:24
Speaker 1: glad that you were part of that team that helped
21:27
Speaker 1: bring it on board and now that now you're working
21:30
Speaker 1: with with with patients or clients that are that are
21:33
Speaker 1: using it and then definitely making a huge difference. So
21:36
Speaker 1: that's been awesome. Absolutely, tell me a little bit about
21:40
Speaker 1: you know, some of the So you're out in the
21:42
Speaker 1: community now working with clients and you're kind of a
21:47
Speaker 1: different angle on it, like you said, in terms of
21:50
Speaker 1: your role, But what are some of the challenges that
21:52
Speaker 1: you think that the community's facing as we move forward
21:56
Speaker 1: and keep helping, you know, helping patients or clients, But
22:01
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that you think are
22:03
Speaker 1: going to be challenges or things that we're going to
22:05
Speaker 1: have to start preparing for.
22:08
Speaker 2: Well, Again, all the numbers that I see the stats
22:12
Speaker 2: is you know, and even within our community where there
22:16
Speaker 2: is really a large focus on trying to assist and
22:20
Speaker 2: help those that are struggling with addiction. I mentioned halfway houses,
22:24
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's pro and probation, whether it's the
22:26
Speaker 2: treatment facilities, the sober living homes, which there are numerous
22:29
Speaker 2: ones in our community. They all have help. But we're
22:34
Speaker 2: still seeing the addiction numbers rise. We're still seeing crime
22:37
Speaker 2: levels rise, many times involved with drug issues. So we
22:43
Speaker 2: still need to have a heavy focus, in my opinion,
22:46
Speaker 2: on mental health and having the resources for mental health
22:50
Speaker 2: services in our community, and then those other organizations like
22:58
Speaker 2: free through recovery organizations, the treatment facilities, and the sober
23:01
Speaker 2: living homes to help. Because you just can't arrest somebody,
23:05
Speaker 2: put them in jail and say they need treatment, Where
23:07
Speaker 2: are they going to go? I know, so I've heard
23:11
Speaker 2: in residential treatment facilities, there's waiting lists. There's waiting lists
23:15
Speaker 2: in the halfway houses BTC and Center Inc. And Mandan.
23:20
Speaker 2: There's waiting lists at most, if not all, of the
23:23
Speaker 2: sober living homes as well. So again, I think we've
23:27
Speaker 2: made a lot of progress in that regard. Many many
23:30
Speaker 2: people have stepped up in the community to fill these
23:33
Speaker 2: gaps that otherwise weren't there when I started in the
23:35
Speaker 2: police department, and I just think we need to continue
23:39
Speaker 2: to have a focus in that area.
23:40
Speaker 1: Sure, well, for sure. I guess one other thing too
23:45
Speaker 1: that I'd like to dis hear from you on is
23:49
Speaker 1: what is your thoughts on what should the community be
23:53
Speaker 1: aware of? And we talked a little bit about education
23:56
Speaker 1: and focusing on mental health. I mean, we can elaborate
23:59
Speaker 1: a little bit more on that, but things that you
24:01
Speaker 1: think our community should be aware of as far as
24:03
Speaker 1: addiction and the parole system, I mean, I think there's
24:06
Speaker 1: a lot of people w don't know what that is
24:08
Speaker 1: or how that works, and so kind of fill us
24:11
Speaker 1: in a little bit more on that side of it.
24:13
Speaker 2: So from the pro and probation doc our standpoint, the
24:17
Speaker 2: public safety is our number one priority. If there's threats
24:20
Speaker 2: in the community, there's violence in the community, that individuals
24:24
Speaker 2: on parler probation are involved in possession of weapons, things
24:27
Speaker 2: like that. We act on those as absolutely as quickly
24:30
Speaker 2: as we can once we are notified of that information.
24:35
Speaker 2: But some people think that, you know, when somebody uses
24:37
Speaker 2: drugs that they're on probation, even that first time, they
24:41
Speaker 2: should just be you know, thrown in jail, put them
24:43
Speaker 2: back in prison, you know, that type of stuff, And
24:45
Speaker 2: it's just not the reality. We know, our prisons are full,
24:48
Speaker 2: there's legislation going on that's got a huge discussion point
24:52
Speaker 2: surrounding all this. So it's just not a reality that,
24:56
Speaker 2: you know, somebody who's on parole or probation and they've
24:59
Speaker 2: used some drugs, that the judge is going to be
25:01
Speaker 2: putting them back in prison. But rather we want to
25:05
Speaker 2: get them down that road to being productive, to hopefully
25:08
Speaker 2: getting into treatment, getting into a sober living home, getting
25:11
Speaker 2: connected with free through recovery. It's important, I think too,
25:16
Speaker 2: that what we try to do as pro and probation
25:18
Speaker 2: officers is to connect our clients with support structures in
25:23
Speaker 2: our community, whether it's family, whether it's trying to find
25:26
Speaker 2: new friends, encouraging them to get involved in the recovery community.
25:31
Speaker 2: And that's a difficult choice. People that are their friends,
25:34
Speaker 2: if you will, that are supplying them drugs and things
25:37
Speaker 2: like that. If they're still hanging around individuals, that's going
25:40
Speaker 2: to make that recovery so much harder. But we have
25:43
Speaker 2: a very robust recovery community through AA meetings and A meetings,
25:50
Speaker 2: different many organizations that are out there, and I really
25:53
Speaker 2: always encourage them to start making friends in the recovery community.
25:59
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that I've heard
26:04
Speaker 1: a few times now when I've talked to you patients
26:06
Speaker 1: is well, you know that that's probably the toughest thing
26:08
Speaker 1: is I'm going to have to change the people, places
26:10
Speaker 1: and things absolutely and nobody wants to do that, right right.
26:15
Speaker 2: I mean, you all loyalties to some people. Some people
26:18
Speaker 2: were there for you during hard times, even though they
26:21
Speaker 2: might not be a very positive influence on you right
26:24
Speaker 2: for your life.
26:25
Speaker 1: Setting those boundaries is tough, and you know, especially when
26:29
Speaker 1: you are going through a huge change in your environment,
26:33
Speaker 1: your natural navigation is to want to talk to the
26:38
Speaker 1: folks that that you like, you said that you relied
26:41
Speaker 1: on the most, but also taking a step back and
26:44
Speaker 1: realizing like that might not be the best place for me,
26:46
Speaker 1: and that I need to make new I don't want
26:53
Speaker 1: to say make new environments, but you kind of are.
26:55
Speaker 2: You kind of are. When somebody is looking, when we're
26:58
Speaker 2: working with individuals in this, it's like, hey, you can
27:01
Speaker 2: either try to take some of these steps on your own,
27:05
Speaker 2: or we could look at placing you in a halfway
27:09
Speaker 2: house or putting you into sober living. And then I
27:12
Speaker 2: get a lot of people say, well, I don't like
27:13
Speaker 2: talking with a bunch of people. I'm not going to
27:15
Speaker 2: sit in a group and tell them my problems that
27:17
Speaker 2: type of stuff. But again, breaking down that stigma of
27:22
Speaker 2: addiction and mental health, being able to talk about it,
27:26
Speaker 2: and then being amongst people that have walked that walk,
27:29
Speaker 2: have walked that path, and are on a clean and
27:33
Speaker 2: sober path, they can really reach back. And I know
27:36
Speaker 2: many people who are in the process of this that
27:39
Speaker 2: have reached back, as they say, and they've pulled someone
27:42
Speaker 2: up out and then getting them into that recovery community
27:46
Speaker 2: and once they're surrounding themselves with individuals that are making
27:49
Speaker 2: those and it's not just making the decision, it's working
27:53
Speaker 2: the programs, using the tools that you learn in these
27:57
Speaker 2: facilities in centers, but you have to practice them. If
28:02
Speaker 2: you don't, it's not just a miracle, it's just going
28:04
Speaker 2: to happen. You have to work at it.
28:08
Speaker 1: And that's a word that I say a lot. I've
28:13
Speaker 1: said a lot in the when I've when I've had
28:16
Speaker 1: a chance to speak with guests and when people ask
28:19
Speaker 1: me about what's it like being in recovery, and work
28:24
Speaker 1: is a word I would use to define it from
28:26
Speaker 1: probably a big picture perspective, because not only the people,
28:32
Speaker 1: places and things that we talked about, but utilizing the tools,
28:36
Speaker 1: whatever program you're on. I'm not privy to one or
28:40
Speaker 1: over another. Whatever works for you, I mean, you do you.
28:43
Speaker 1: But putting those pieces into emotion sometimes in the times
28:49
Speaker 1: and places where you don't you know, normally wouldn't have
28:52
Speaker 1: in the past, is a big thing. I mean, you
28:54
Speaker 1: have to. It's like practicing for a basketball game. You
28:57
Speaker 1: got to be ready and be prepared and so be
29:01
Speaker 1: ready for what's going to be thrown at you.
29:02
Speaker 2: Like it's not natural or normal for someone that has
29:04
Speaker 2: struggled through addiction to make these normal decisions that people
29:08
Speaker 2: who aren't addicted are making every day. And I think
29:10
Speaker 2: that's what the realization is so they're not coming from
29:13
Speaker 2: that level in life. I mean I call I mean, man,
29:19
Speaker 2: there's some people that have just fought tooth and nail
29:24
Speaker 2: to fight their addiction and to get through it day
29:26
Speaker 2: after day after day. That's a warrior to me. I mean,
29:30
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine having to battle at something that's
29:35
Speaker 2: not physically out in front of you. It's internally that
29:38
Speaker 2: you are struggling with. And then all those temptations are
29:41
Speaker 2: out in front of you in the community and having
29:43
Speaker 2: to make those conscious or conscious intentional decisions to avoid
29:50
Speaker 2: those areas that could get you into trouble or trigger
29:54
Speaker 2: trigger yourself for usage.
29:55
Speaker 1: Right, And I think too that you know, sometimes you
29:59
Speaker 1: are in a position and at least for me, it's like, well,
30:02
Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's fine, I feel, And then there's
30:04
Speaker 1: times when it kind of comes out of nowhere where
30:06
Speaker 1: you maybe your crutch would have been, or for me,
30:08
Speaker 1: would have been grabbing a drink, where now it's like, no, realize,
30:14
Speaker 1: if you did that, it's going to be a whole
30:16
Speaker 1: lot worse later on. So let's take a step back
30:19
Speaker 1: and remember what really happens when you do things.
30:21
Speaker 2: Like that, and taking enough step back and realizing it
30:24
Speaker 2: is thinking about what are you risking? What are you risking?
30:27
Speaker 2: Are you risking losing your job? Are you risking losing
30:29
Speaker 2: your family, you know, your children, things like that, going
30:33
Speaker 2: back down that hole if you will.
30:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. No, that's a great way of
30:38
Speaker 1: explaining it. Definitely, So a little bit more. I just
30:42
Speaker 1: want to touch a little bit more on the probation
30:45
Speaker 1: and parole side of it again because I feel like
30:47
Speaker 1: this is a really good opportunity for people to learn
30:49
Speaker 1: more about what your team does. What does that look
30:52
Speaker 1: like for you guys moving forward? Like how do you
30:55
Speaker 1: stay on top of the trends and what's going on
30:57
Speaker 1: in the community, because that's got to be tough to
30:59
Speaker 1: try to stay ahead of it or you know, stay
31:01
Speaker 1: with it, because there's things change so fast.
31:04
Speaker 2: It isn't through training and education, you know, we learn
31:07
Speaker 2: quite a bit, but just talking with their clients what's
31:10
Speaker 2: going out in the community, you know, what are some
31:13
Speaker 2: of the drugs that you're seeing or hearing you know
31:15
Speaker 2: that are out there. You know. The one thing too
31:18
Speaker 2: about pro and probation. If we have to do an investigation,
31:21
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely we'll ask the right questions, but when
31:23
Speaker 2: we're working with an individual, again, to try to come
31:26
Speaker 2: across in somewhat of a non judgmental type way is
31:30
Speaker 2: we have to talk to them about their using where
31:33
Speaker 2: they getting it from. But it's not don't name a name,
31:36
Speaker 2: it's not names. We're not looking out there to go
31:38
Speaker 2: and investigate necessarily. I mean, if there's something big enough
31:40
Speaker 2: and extremely serious, oh absolutely, but we're working with that individual.
31:44
Speaker 2: It's so important for us to build trust with our
31:47
Speaker 2: clients as well. But pro and Probation we've got some
31:51
Speaker 2: of the most I've been there a little over a
31:53
Speaker 2: year and a half now in my second third career.
31:56
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want to call it, but
31:58
Speaker 2: these are compassion strong, dedicated, resilient individuals that work in
32:03
Speaker 2: pro and probation and they care about our community and
32:06
Speaker 2: they care about our community safety. And we also want
32:10
Speaker 2: to treat our clients that way, to treat them as
32:12
Speaker 2: human beings again, not as just a number. That's coming through.
32:17
Speaker 2: Some of the biggest good feedback that I get is
32:23
Speaker 2: when somebody says to me, is you know what you know,
32:26
Speaker 2: thanks for having this conversation. It really appears that you
32:29
Speaker 2: do care. You know. I don't want to just next next,
32:33
Speaker 2: this next one coming in my office. I want to
32:35
Speaker 2: take the time for those individuals and work on plans
32:38
Speaker 2: with them. But again, we are working with individuals that
32:43
Speaker 2: are many times going through one of the hardest times
32:46
Speaker 2: in their lives, especially if you look at some of
32:48
Speaker 2: the trauma that they've gone into, and we try to
32:52
Speaker 2: work through that with them. But we also again are
32:54
Speaker 2: there to hold them accountable, to keep the community safe,
32:58
Speaker 2: but encourage them on that path of making the right decisions. Yeah.
33:02
Speaker 1: No, and sometimes it's without that guidance and the support,
33:08
Speaker 1: it's pretty tough. So being able to do that is
33:12
Speaker 1: one of the biggest keys on keeping people on track.
33:15
Speaker 1: If you don't have that accountability, then why why didn't
33:18
Speaker 1: you go back to what you knew?
33:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely true. Yeah, And you know, again, one of
33:24
Speaker 2: the greatest satisfactions that I have received so far in
33:26
Speaker 2: my short little career here is people that have successfully
33:30
Speaker 2: completed their probation. And I also say that successfully by
33:33
Speaker 2: the remaining clean and sober as well. When they call
33:38
Speaker 2: back and reach back now a year later or six
33:42
Speaker 2: months later and they're not even on probation anymore, and
33:44
Speaker 2: I'll get that phone call and just says, hey, I'm
33:47
Speaker 2: speaking at this NA event. Will you come down and listen,
33:51
Speaker 2: you know, things like that, Well, yeah, or just calling
33:54
Speaker 2: to update how they've been doing, and they're so proud
33:56
Speaker 2: of themselves, which they should be, because they're still clean,
33:59
Speaker 2: they're still sober, they've got that job. Many things that
34:03
Speaker 2: will a lot of people just take for granted, but
34:05
Speaker 2: these are accomplishments for individuals that have struggled with the
34:09
Speaker 2: worst of the worst of these types of drugs.
34:12
Speaker 1: Well, accomplishments for everyone involved for sure, and to be
34:16
Speaker 1: able to see the impact is tremendous in terms of
34:20
Speaker 1: knowing that you know, you can help people get on
34:22
Speaker 1: the right path and to see the future for them
34:25
Speaker 1: is super exciting.
34:26
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I always tell them, isn't it nice not to
34:28
Speaker 2: have to look over your shoulder and wonder where the
34:30
Speaker 2: cops are and if they're behind you? Right, you don't
34:33
Speaker 2: have to worry about that anymore. No, the ones that
34:35
Speaker 2: are making those good decisions, that's just that's one of
34:38
Speaker 2: the biggest conversations we have. When I was get a
34:40
Speaker 2: chuckle out of them and said, yeah, and you know,
34:43
Speaker 2: in fact, I'm not as scared of them as I
34:44
Speaker 2: used to be. Well, of course.
34:47
Speaker 1: Don't have to be right, Yeah, no, for sure. Well,
34:50
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming today. I appreciate you sharing that information.
34:54
Speaker 1: I think that's been I mean, I learned a lot
34:57
Speaker 1: because I don't know a lot about that, but I
35:00
Speaker 1: feel like now it makes more sense to me. And
35:02
Speaker 1: so I'm glad that I had a chance to to
35:05
Speaker 1: have you sit in the hot seat absolutely share and
35:08
Speaker 1: share what you do and the impact that you've made.
35:10
Speaker 1: And again, I thank you, and I just you know,
35:13
Speaker 1: we really appreciate all that you that you've done and
35:16
Speaker 1: all that you continue to do for our community.
35:18
Speaker 2: Well again, thank you Joan for this opportunity just to
35:20
Speaker 2: speak and especially just to talk about parole and probation
35:24
Speaker 2: and the important work that the staff does in the community.
35:29
Speaker 2: A lot of it is most of it is just
35:30
Speaker 2: absolutely unseen, unknown even by law enforcement. When I was
35:34
Speaker 2: at the PD, I didn't necessarily know all of what
35:36
Speaker 2: was entailed in being a probation officer. But the work
35:39
Speaker 2: that they do day in and day out is really
35:43
Speaker 2: having a positive impact. So I'm proud of the team
35:45
Speaker 2: that I'm a part of.
35:47
Speaker 1: Awesome.
35:48
Speaker 2: Hi five, Hey, thank you, thank.
35:49
Speaker 1: You, thank you for joining us on this episode of
35:59
Speaker 1: Recovering Posts. Find out more about hertviewadkurkview dot org, and
36:04
Speaker 1: keep moving forward, remembering the story is yours and you
36:06
Speaker 1: are the author.