Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Releasing The Shameful Parts Of Your Story with Emmy-nominated writer Chelsea Devantez

Transcript

Releasing The Shameful Parts Of Your Story with Emmy-nominated writer Chelsea Devantez · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: pretty This is pretty smart. Today is a first for
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Pretty Smart. In one hundred and sixty something episodes, we've
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: never had a guest return to do a second episode.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: But today, writer, author, comedian, and podcast host Chelsea Davontees
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: becomes our first two time guest on the pod. And
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: how fitting because she's a woman who likes to do
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: things that just haven't been done before. The last time
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Chelsea was here, she taught us that the glory is
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: in your story. It was a lesson she picked up
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: from her former boss, comedian John Stewart, when she worked
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: with him as head writer on the Problem with John Stewart.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And today we're coming full circle because Chelsea is ready
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to tell her story, the beautiful, life changing parts that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: helped her become a TV writer in Hollywood and the messy,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: devastating chapters that she tried her best to keep buried
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: for years. But the thing about your past is it's
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: really hard to hide from. Have you ever heard that phrase?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: If you keep running from yourself. Eventually you run into yourself.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I think about that a lot. Chelsea is sharing at all,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: surviving domestic violence, her daunting road to Hollywood success story,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: lost friendships, strain family relationships, and the devastation of learning
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: she never knew her biological dad. The result is her stunning, heartbreaking,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and hilarious new memoir. I shouldn't be telling you this.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It's a reminder that sometimes the things we think are
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: weighing us down are actually making a strong than we
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: could have ever imagined. So if you've ever felt ashamed
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of a part of your life that you felt was
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: too messy, today's episode is for you. So first of all, Chelsea,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm super grateful. I've never had anybody I'm pretty smart
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: twice and you are never never. This is really exciting
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: for me. And the best part is that you, like,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: we became friends after our first recording, and so you
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: really hold such a special place in my heart. And
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for this. And I freaking loved your book.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, I heard from you in the beginning and then
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I knew you'd finished it, and I didn't hear from you,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and I was like, either on Mike, she's gonna say
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: she liked it, or I'm gonna like find.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Out that she was like okay on it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: You were such a dear friend to me, especially throughout
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the book process, and I'm sad you only have a
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: galley because you are in the knowledgements, but that's only
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in the final copy. But yeah, you really you actually
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: picked me up on probably my lowest day of writing
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: the book and the whole through year process.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: So I'm very grateful to you.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I cannot believe I am the first person to ever
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: come back. I was like, Wow, you're having me back.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: That is so kind of you.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize it was just me.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's only you, and I've never been in the acknowledgments
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of a book, and so could I feel like I
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: could cry because you and I love books so much,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: we hold them so dear that to be on a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: page is kind of unbelievable. So thank you.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, well thank you.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't message you on purpose because I actually read
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the book twice and I freaking loved it, but I
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to save it for our podcast.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah you have a lot of jobs too, Like I
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: shook that you did that.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it was interesting because you felt like this was
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: maybe not an easy read. I felt like it was
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a really easy read.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Oh good.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: My writing style and writing styles I like are easy
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: reads where I like, I don't want to read a
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: sentence and be like what did that mean? Like I
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: don't like I want you to like feel like easy, breezy, lovely.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I was worried because I'm a monster, and I checked
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: some early good Reads reviews that the content of the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: book would perhaps, as I know from a lady who
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: was like, oh no, too much, too much.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Trauma to read about, and so that's what I was
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: worried about.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I was worried about then, that the content would be
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: maybe too overwhelming for people. And I also think, like
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: we've talked about this too. I you know, when you've
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: been called too much or regarded as too much, or
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: you're just like, you know, you're a lot, which by
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a male standard would be normal, but by a lady's standard,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: you're a lot. And I'm like, I think I'm worried
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: that my book, my book Baby.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Is a lot, like is she too much? Is she okay?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote down a quote because part of why
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I have always been drawn to women's stories and memoirs
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: in particular, is they confronted me and comforted me in
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the mess of my own life. And I felt like
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: if these women's stories were messy or imperfect or sad
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and also happy that I was less alone and you
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: were a kid that felt very alone in New Mexico.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: My therapist said to me once, if we look down
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: on other people's misfortunes, we make it impossible to accept
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the sadness of our own life. And I feel like
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: you are going to make a lot of people accept
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: things in their own lives, whether it's sadness or something else.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: That would be incredible if the book did that.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I also felt very alone in Colorado, Utah, Nevada, California,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and New Orleans, which are all the places we lived
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: in before New Mexico.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: But I think very.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Lonely in a way that definitely I didn't visually look lonely.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I was always like, pretty gregarious and outgoing.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: But I think feeling like you're the weirdest person in
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the room, hiding your weird life, you know, amongst a
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: bunch of people who aren't going through what you're going through,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: made me feel that way.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: With you of like reading about other women's stories definitely
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: was the thing that set me free.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Who did you want to read your story? Who did
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you write this for?
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I really did write it for young me in
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the sense that I kept thinking, like, what was I
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: always looking for when I opened a book? What did
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I always need when I was looking for a book?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: And I did have her very loudly in my head.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And so I hope that the people who go to
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: books because they need something, not just a good story entertainment.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I do hope the book is very entertaining. I do
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: hope it's a great story. But I always went to
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: books being like I want to be entertained, but like
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I need something in life.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: I need some help. And I'm hoping.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: That that's in there because I tried to put it
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: in there, and I hope if there's anyone else like
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: me out there, that they find it.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: You are a celebrity memoir connoisseur, and you've consumed hundreds
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: of other women's stories over the course of your life,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: more than probably anybody I know. How did that inform
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: your approach when you were writing your book?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Well, definitely it gave me the courage to do it
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: because I've just seen in these pages women have unbelievable
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: courage and women with a lot to lose. Because I
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: read a lot of female celebrity memoirs, so it's women
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: who have their whole careers on the line when they
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: are putting the stuff they're putting in that book, And
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: a handful of them even wrote inside their books, tell
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: your own story. It's going to set you free. Like me,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: doing this has has set me free owning my own story,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: like taking my own narrative and telling you what it
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: was really like. So that gave me courage and style wise,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I knew, I'm not going to tell you about my grandparents'
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: jobs in a way that is not relevant to the story.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you what my dad's next
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: smelled like when he hugged me. I'm not going to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: describe daddy's clone didn't have a dad, but wouldn't do
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: that now, I and I really do did try to
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: make sure I always telling stories of the beginning, middle,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: and an end.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly like and just so.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: But I mean it's like droves of memoirs talk about
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: dad's next smell, and they also a common trope that
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I really tried to avoid was montage memory mush, which
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: is like.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: The kitchen was like this, my mom was like this.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: On holidays we would and the neighborhood was and it's like,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: it's just mush.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And so I really was focused on making sure that
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: anything I was telling you was part of a story
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: with a beginning, middle end.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's actually now that you say that. I loved
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Michelle Obama's memoir, but it I almost skipped the whole
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: first third because it was just describe things and high school,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I just want the story.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, and I dislike her memoir because I can't get
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, give me you, hand me your heart.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I don't care what the trees were like unless it
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: matters to your story.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: But I don't need that much scene setting.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, I love the very first sentence of your book.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: It says I didn't want to have an ugly story,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and for a long time I thought I wouldn't have
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: to if I simply never told it. So now that
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: your book is almost officially out in the world, your
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: story will be out. How has it changed you being
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: able to tell the story? Seems like you just ran
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: into the mess and said I'm going to live it
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and love it.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: That is exactly right. Sharing my story. Having the courage
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: to do that was my last option. I tried everything else.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I tried everything else first. I could not keeping something in,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: regardless of if it's logically shameful, the art the act
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of holding it in makes it shameful. On top of that,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I have some things that I genuinely just think are shameful,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: and holding that in was destroying me constantly.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I tried.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I tried taro, I tried astrology, I tried
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: breathing techniques.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I tried meditation. I tried becoming a comedian.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: For years, I joined an improv cult, I dabbled with
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: other new age cults. I did therapy, I had some
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: hospital surgeries, like anything. I tried to be likable, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: tried to be fun. I tried to get really successful.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I tried everything, and it just wouldn't go away. And
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I think what I'm saying when it go away was
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: my own on CPTSD. But because it's kind of this
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: like harrowing feeling that lives inside you, where no matter
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: what you just it's just there's this horrible shadow living
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: with you. So yeah, so courage was my last option,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: and I just got so desperate that I chose it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: And just started sharing everything.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And I definitely I keep trying to articulate this, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I just don't know if I know how to.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: But like I remember.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Several moments in my life but years ago, sitting with
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: my therapist once it had taken months for me to
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: even get some of it out to her. Truly, I
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: don't know how to explain it. I truly believed it
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: would be better off to die than to have people
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: know some of this stuff about me. I thought it
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: was unsurvivable to have it out there. And it took many,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: many years and lots and lots of trauma therapy and a
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: lot of other things. But now I'm here and I'm
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: on a podcast. I'm like, please buy my book, please
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: read about all my stuff. And that is such a miracle.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And I definitely feel that miracle every second.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So you talked about your New Age healing, and on
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: page seventy five you really had me laughing because you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: talk about the psychics and the crystals and the astrological charts,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and then you write, by the time I was in college,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: it was a parent that something was deeply wrong with
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: me and it wasn't going away despite no longer being
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: in mercury retrograde. But you say that, like finding yourself,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: journeys are often advertised with whimsy, and you tried all that,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: but yours really wasn't. I know, you just mentioned that
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: moment in therapy. Is that when you decided it was
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: really time to work on yourself or was there a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: moment that kind of clicked inside of you that said
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I need to try something.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: No, I've always been trying the jump.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I was like this, whatever I'm feeling inside is hell.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: It was trying, you know whatever. All these traumatic things
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: were hell.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I like you, I would be like, Okay, I find
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of reprieve at the library. I find a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: lot of reprieve in books. I was always searching for
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: something to help me. I also have a section in
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: the book where I'm like, I read rich Dad Pordad.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I thought like, oh, you know, money is a real
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: stressor for our family. If I figure out money, all
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the stress will go away. Like I was trying to
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: read every book. I tried every the Alchemist, the Four Agreements,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: like all of that. I was always trying, and I
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: just didn't find therapy and really the scientific approach to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: all of this till later in life. And even then
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I had to go through like six therapists to find
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the one that could actually that actually had the specialties
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and the probably maybe the personality to help me.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: So no, I was always trying. I just it just
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: took so much.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting. I like, you make everything
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: so funny that I sometimes forget that so much of
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: your funny comes from really deep pain. Like the fact
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that you.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Just said, Okay, thank you, what a compliment.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Well you just said I was living in such hell,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Like even in your book, I didn't totally garner the hell.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's because such a duality can exist
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: in myself, and I think lots of people where And
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's also how we survive bad situations, or
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: how we let something bad happen for so long, which
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: is that like it's hell exists.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Hands in hand with joy.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I wrote about you know, my one
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: of my abusive stepdads and my mom, and it's like,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: but there were joyful moments throughout that, you know, And
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: so dare I say a livable hell and when.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: You don't know something's wrong, you know, it's easy to
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: get through.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And I think I didn't really realize something was deeply
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: wrong with me. And again, the thing I'm saying is
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: you be wrong with CPTs until I was probably like
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: twenty two, and like a guy would not call me
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: back and I would be crying in a way that
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: neighbors checked on me, like are you being stabbed to death?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But that's what was coming out of me when like
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: a fucking loser didn't call me back. And when I
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: say loser, I mean he wore dirty sweatpants to the date,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: like nothing that should ever incur that amount of emotion.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But everything was lopsided. There was other news I would
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: get in my life, like that Stepdad's death were like
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: it felt like nothing. Yeah, I felt like it's hot
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: out today.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: You know, you just go on with your life.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: And that's when it was kind of like coming clear
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: to me that like, but but then again I'd be like,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: so what's in my astrological chart, Like is this a
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: double tourist thing?
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Or like what phase am I in?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Or if I just manifest enough or if I just
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: think positively, that's I'll fix.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: It M looking for answers. Yeah, yeah, what does CPSD
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: stand for?
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Yes, CPTSDC, CPTSD, PTSD post traumatic stress syndrome, which we
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: know about and there's lots of great studies about it,
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: but that is typically a singular incident.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: So I, you know, got into a car wreck like
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: that could give you PTSDB, and you know you're scared
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of your getting in cars, and we're really working with that.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: CPTSD is complex post tramatic stress disorder, which happens when
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: multiple traumatic things happen in your life, usually in childhood,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: and they kind of entangle them in each other and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: inside your brain, and so to kind of process all
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the trauma, you're looking at like a complex web and
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: it has it shows up. It actually showed up in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: my life in a beautiful way, Like I achieved so much, Chelsey,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I'm serious, And people would be like, I don't know
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: how you're doing it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you're.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Doing this much, and I was like, yeah, I'm pretty amazing.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Later learned it is a symptom of the mental illness.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm laughing because it's funny, but like I remember
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: my therapist showing me this chart of symptoms, and what
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I previously would have told you was my personality was
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: sixteen symptoms on a hones clypts detail. Wow, down even
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: down to like hates yoga that was on there.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: What were some of the other symptoms?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, so not liking meditation and yoga, having a secret
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: sixth sense of like when someone's going to come up
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and talk to you, or like get in your way,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: or like someone's going to come and hit on you.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: It wasn't written like that, but whenever it was written
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: like having an eating disorder. Let me try to remember
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: some of the others.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Some intrusive thoughts, nightmares, suicidal ideation. These are getting fun,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: very very fun for everyone. Workoholism was a big one.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: It's a lot about how you control and perceive your life,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: being extremely outgoing and friendly, hating to travel interesting, which
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I do hate to travel. So it's like you go
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: on tender and everyone's like, I love to travel, and
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want to go anywhere. Yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was just like a weird, weird,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: funny personality trait.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: But it is linked to CPGSD.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I get how you conflated like a double tourus thing
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Of course, I'm like a lot of love abath. Yeah,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I love to be cozy girl. I'm a double tourist. Yeah.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So some of the trauma that you're alluding to is
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I think one of the most painful topics of your book.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: You call it the big scary domestic violence thing, And
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: so for everyone who hasn't read it yet, there's big
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: parts of your book that are blacked out that you
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: couldn't tell and for what I assume our legal reason,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: but you actually said it was your husband that gave
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you the idea to include it in the book and
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: just black out the details. Can you take me through
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that decision.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So I wrote the entire book, and mostly I wanted
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: to write a memoir one I love memoirs, but I
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: really wanted to tell this story of this violent relationship
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I lived through when I was very young, where my
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: boyfriend ended up doing three drive by shootings of my house.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And that's sort of like the last things that happens.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: That's like how it kind of the story ends. It's
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: not even close to the entirety of what happened inside
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: the relationship, And the last chapter of the book was
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: going to pick up ten years later, when I was
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: on stage performing comedy at the theater I worked at,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: and a sheriff walked in the building to subpoena me
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: back to court to reopen that case that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: We'd already decided ten years.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Prior, and I was told to delete all of it
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: or I couldn't. I was told to delete all of it,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that it couldn't go in the book, and that it
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: was too dangerous to include. And it's my first question,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: is too dangerous for who? And in the name of
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: like protecting victims, we our system is set up to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: silence them. And if you look at studies of how
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: domestic violence continues to be something so prevalent it happens
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: to one in four women, it directly ties to the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: silence about it, Silence from victims, silence from abusers, silence
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: of our just our stories being told at all. It
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: has such this ick to it. People really put it
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: in the genre of like thrillers and lifetime movies like
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: that's it. So I really felt that once I'd found
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: the resources to be able to talk about it within myself,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: that writing it in my style, which does include comedy,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: could be a way to get people to hear a
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: story that they might actually see themselves in. And I
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: think the only way to make change is like for
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: these stories to actually be good stories, specifics, details, relatability.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I know that girl, I could be that girl that
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: was something like whenever it's just like a headline like
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: crazy thing happens to women, you just go like, oh,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that's not me, that's.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Not where I live, and it is and yeah, anyway,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: so I told them I would not delete it. Not
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: only was it.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: So important to me, it was the reason I wanted
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to have a memoir, but I also felt just story wise,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: there was no way to explain anything about my life
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: unless this incident was it. I didn't even know how
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I could write around it, let alone emotionally. And so
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I said no, and I canceled the book. And they
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: were like, you know, take some time. And I pitched
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: them a bunch of things, like could I tell a
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: story about I don't know, a shitthead unicorn and a
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: cute little mouse, and they lawyers don't have great imaginations,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and they were like no, just no, and yeah. I
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: was devastated, and I canceled the book and it was
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: like one of the most traumatic downturns of my mental
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: health and reason history.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Like it was so bad.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I was having a hard time getting out of bed
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: because it was kind of like this recreation of everything
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I've already lived through before, which is like, you are
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: gonna lose. This horrible thing's gonna happen to you, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: you can't fight back, You have no resources, nothing will
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: help you. Be quiet about it, hold it inside, keep
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the secret. I finally got the courage to fucking share
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: this thing that I never wanted anyone to know. And
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: then they told me I couldn't say it, and all
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I was like, I must say it
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: because it took decades to get here.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So my husband, Yasser, was like, why don't you just
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: black out enough words that they technically can't tell you no,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And they were like, yeah, es, technically we can't say no.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And I was like good, and through pure rage, I
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: decided that if I couldn't tell my story, I would
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: use the blackbars to tell the story of how our
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: systems are set up to silence victims and victims of
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: domestic bounds specifically, and to keep as much of my
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: story in there as possible, and that's what I did,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: and anger got me through it.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: But right now I feel a lot of grief about it.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Right now, I'm like, I get really, I'm like, the
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: grief has finally hit me a year after making that decision.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Wait, I'm so interested in that because I actually feel
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: like the black bars are a huge part of this book,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and in a positive way. Like, I think you're saying
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: so much and I still understood the story. Where's the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: grief coming from?
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: I had words under there?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You know. It's so wild to be able to be told,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like you cannot say what happened to you.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: I didn't commit the crime.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: If I committed the crime and they're like, hey, don't
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: print this, I'd be like, you know what's smart? It's
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: like I can't even say what happened to me and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: the story, I don't know how to explain it. The
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: story is so much weirder then you could even imagine.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I had to take a lot of the weird
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: parts out because with black bars around them, it's just
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: like Gobbly Cook. I had to not tell a lot
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: of this story. And I don't know, I feel like
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I'm in prison with it, you know what I mean?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Like I really thought I was gonna like overcome it
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: and like rake my story. And it's just so wild
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: to be like no.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: No, like you'll it just feels like I don't know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're doubling down on the shame that you were
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: freeing yourself from.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I I have a bunch of jobs.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I have savings. I already had an entertainment layer because
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: of what I do for a living. I had the
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: money to get other lawyers. I have meds, I have
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a therapist. I've done so much processing, and I I
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: have so many resources that I did not have when
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: that was happening to me. And there is something about
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: like not being able to like avenge that girl that
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: is killing me because I really thought when I wrote it,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: when I finally wrote it down, I was like, Okay,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: here we go, Like I'm gonna go make it right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: And it was so hard to try and like get
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: it to stay in the book and try and be
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: like I like had help at the time, but it
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't enough and they were not. Trauma is a hell
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: of a thing, and when other people around you are
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: also traumatized, they don't make great decisions, and I was
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: so young and we had no money, and it just
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: like did not have help. And the second time, even
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: then I did not have enough help because I was
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: so embarrassed, I like turned help away. I tried to
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: deal with it myself.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: And so this third time, I was like, here we go.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I'm old enough, I'm in control enough, I'm about to
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: fuck some shit up on behalf of the past.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: And I still fucking lost. And yeah, it kills me.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you feel like you lost. I
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: get what you're saying. Yeah, but I think the loss
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is still TBD. I still feel like you're avenging her,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I hope. So, yeah, how did you handle revisiting the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: trauma when you were actually writing it?
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: The first time, when I was just writing the story
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: was so difficult that so I think when people hear
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the word trauma, I think they think of a feeling
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: like you feel really bad, which yess true.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: But it actually quite literally.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Affects your brain, the size of it, how it functions,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: what parts turn on and off, how they process time
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: and space.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: It truly scrambles your brain.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: And so I turned in the first chapter, which was like,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and I did it last because I knew how hard
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: it would be, and I turned it in and my
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: editor was like, I'm going to be as gentle and
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: loving as possible and let you know that it sounds
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: like a robot dog wrote this, Like it sounds like
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: someone was like, here are some facts and the and
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: like she was like, this is bad. And I didn't disagree.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: But I know what it feels like in my body
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: to write, because I'm a TV writer right every day.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I know what it feels like. And when I would
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: go to write those things, like I couldn't think of
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: a word as fast and I didn't feel as creative, and.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: The actual writing was shittier, even down to my syntax,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: like there were so many changes. I had a friend
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: like helped me prove it and she was like, what
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: happened here? Like she was, and I was like, yeah, yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: So I actually went back into my journals that I
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: kept as a kid, and I used a lot of
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: my my former writing, which is wild because it was
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: so hard for my brain to go back and write it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: But I had written a lot of it down within
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: like a few months. I would go like those first
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: few years after it happened, I was writing new edit
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: constantly and it was just really haunting me. And so
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I had all this writing and I was like, shit,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: get ready to be a published girl.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: On a like personal note, I know you have such
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: an amazing, beautiful husband and a beautiful relationship with him.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine it was easy for him to like
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: see you in that state, because I'm sure this took
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: a few weeks or months to write this portion.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I think during those sections it was probably fine. I
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: think you really saw me in my worst. When I
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: was told I couldn't include it, that's when it got bad.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: He just gave me a necklace. And on the front
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: is this. It's a little tarot card that says the
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: reader and by reading a book, And on the back
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: it says no ugly stories. And I'm just like, man,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I dated so many people that I could have never
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: they're just they just no one has ever come within
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: miles of like who he is and what a match
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: we are. And also I think the fact that he
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: went through so much stuff also allows him to be
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: someone that's like not scared by it.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Now you made me cry.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: It was a really beautiful gift.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: That's like, oh, to be like fully loved, like that is,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: like I think, which is what everybody is craving and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: seeking in life. That's so beautiful.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel so so lucky and privileged to marry him.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And yours is coming, everyone, Yours is coming. Just do
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: not settle with the other boyfriend.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I did for a long time. That's in my book.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Whoever that is in your life, don't settle for them.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Just keep keep saching. You know, of the many consequences
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: of the big scary domestic violence thing. You say that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: this man killed the woman who you were going to become.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I am so cute because I like know and love
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: this version of you so much. I can't imagine who
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you thought you were going to become. Who was she
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: way better?
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I joke in the book, like what if she would
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: have been a huge bitch? Like you know, But the
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: truth is that I'd already been through a lot of
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: fucking shit before this happened.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So, if we're gonna believe that a certain amount of
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: bad things shapes your character or makes you a comedian
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: or whatever, I'd already had enough. I did have enough
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: for all those things to have happened. If that's what
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: trauma does to you, So I really did not need this.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: I did not, And I think she would have just.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Been able to enjoy life without a lot of fear
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: that I always have with me. I think she would
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: have been able to enjoy vacations. I think she would
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: want to fly to Maui for the weekend with someone
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I don't. I think she would enjoy herself a lot more.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I think she'd be a lot fucking funnier. And I
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: think she would pay less in therapy and all of
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: those sound like great things to me.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Do you think you gained anything by losing her?
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: And I know the good answer is yes, and it
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: happened for.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: A reason, and there's no good answer, there's just the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: honest answer.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: No, No, I think it ruined my life.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And I think it's been like really hard to crawl
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: my way back to a person who is proud to
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: be themselves. And I've definitely been doing all that work.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: But it did take a long time, and I think
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I think it stole intimacy from me. I mean, like
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I could not The fact that I was able to
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: eventually find it with my husband, I is like something
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I take credit for every day with myself, Like because
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I was in a bad place, like I could not.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Date people. Yeah, so I don't know.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: You write about changing your name several times in your life, Yeah,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: and you say that the names were all associated with
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: terrible memories. How do you think that changing your name
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: shaped your relationship you have with yourself?
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Well, definitely, it was like the most beautiful thing I
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: could have ever done for myself. I was sixteen years
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: old when I chose my new name, and I'm.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Just so grateful I didn't choose a name like Pizza, because.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: That is typically like a sixteen year old shouldn't be.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: In charge of doing it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Was that on the list of considerations.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it was, And to be honest, I actually
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: think that'd be as a comedian, what a missed opportunity.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Fuck. I wish my last name was Pizza.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'd had three last names, three different last
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: names by that point, and.
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: I it's at the time it didn't feel traumatic to
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: change my name, and the last one when I changed
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: my own name was like beautiful.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: It was this like I will not be following you
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: fuckers anymore, will not belong to one of these dads
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: who's not even.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: My real dad.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And I love my mom so much, but I was like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: not even you, my friends, Like no one can be
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: trusted but me. Wow, to be in control of my
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: own life. I was so sick of having my name changed.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And I now know looking back, like when you're a
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: little kid, the basics matter. The sky is wood, the
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: grass is green. That is my mom, that is my dad,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: this is my name. Here's how I spell it, Like
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: they matter a lot, and to have that stuff changed
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: really fucks with the basic stability that each human should
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: have in life. And so I think for me, I
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: was trying to give some of that back to myself
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: of like, we're going to be stable from now on.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Now that we're in charge, we're gonna be stable.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: And I even.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I just adore my husband so much, and he actually
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: carries his mom's last name, and so he's not changing
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: his last name because he's so close to his mom
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: and he's carrying that side and so and me and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: everyone in my family always had a different last name
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: growing up. And so I thought, like, I'm getting married
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and we may like foster adopt kids one day, I
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: do want us all to have the same name, because
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I don't want this situation I had, And so I
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: thought to myself like I should change my last name
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: to my husband's last name, and I couldn't do it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it really, and.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because there was a seventeen year old in me
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: being like I will fucking kill you, Like we work
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: so hard, we work so hard, we promised ourselves. I
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: watched my mom change her last name, I watched my
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: name change with husbands like no, and I had a
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: friend say something that I actually believe is true.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: She's like, hey, sometimes seventeen year olds are wrong. It's
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: not like they know everything.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, you're so right, But I still it's
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: like I couldn't break her heart. And I still think like,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: should we ever have kids, maybe I can change it.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: Then.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm I'm going to do it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: But I even had this like horrible feeling of like
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: if I change my name, we'll definitely get divorced.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Like I felt like I was.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Like, like that's how and none of that's logical, but
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: that is what was in my heart, and I.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Was like, I just can't.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Those types of feelings, though, come from trauma, Like it's
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: like the idea that fresh your decision is so critical
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: it's life or death. Almost is such a trauma response, Yeah,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it really is. Okay, we talked a lot about trauma,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: but I do want to touch on something really beautiful
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and funny, because this book is all about the women
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in your life in a lot of ways. Yes, and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: your godmother Grace is by far my favorite character in
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: your book. And I say character even though she's real,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: because she is a true character of a personally, she
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: was a part of a lot of your very personal moments.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Grace drives you to Chicago when you start doing improfit
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: second City. Grace gives you advice for getting into entertainment
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: despite having never worked one day in the entertainment industry.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: She took you to look into getting a breast reduction,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: which is a very even though.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: I didn't want one, she thought I needed.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: It, Yes, and it ends up actually being like so
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: traumatizing and sad.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: It's horrible. Yeah, it's horrible.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think that you would have ever made some
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: of the leaps in your life without Grace?
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Never? Never? Never, Oh my gosh, never, you cannot.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: It's what they say about like why representation is important,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: because if you don't see it and you don't.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Know about it. You do not know that you can
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And she was the first person who was like, hey,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: you want a good life where you have money and
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: you don't need a shitty man to stay around, go
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: to college. And I was like, college, okay, very cool.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I am the first person in my family to graduate
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: from college. I did go to acting school, so it
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: was a wash, but we came close to.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Carrying that through.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I remember I heard this is in
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: the book. I heard on cham on one News that
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: students in Georgia got to attend college for free if
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: they had all bees or above because Georgia Lottery was
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: paying for it. And so one day Grace came to
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: visit and I was like, listen, you told me about college.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: You're not going to believe what I heard on Channel
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: one news. I'm moving to Georgia in three years. I
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: will attend high school there. Somehow I will get all
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: bees or more and I will go to college for free.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Can you believe?
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: And she was like, oh, did you know there's something
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: called a scholarship and financial aid?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: And she was like, there's something.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: So special about being raised by someone unhinged, untethered from reality,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: not believing in the rubric of society and then telling
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: you a child, these these ways to exist that aren't real.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: So she was just like, go join the city council.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: That would look good on your resume. I'd be like, okay,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: She's like, and I'm like how she's like asked. I
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: was like okay, and I got a ride to the
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: city council.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Can I join? Can I be a junior member?
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: And they were I think so shocked that they were
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: like sure, sure, small child.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: And I was like, great, would love to put this
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: on her resume. I'm going to college one day and
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: joined the fucking city council And so definitely would not
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: have done things like that without her, And she really did.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: She told me.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Whether she told me when I was very young. She
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: was like, you are extremely special, and because she was unhinged,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: she was like, you're a genius.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: You could change the world, and she meant it.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: She meant it because she was like, you are like me,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: we are amazing, we can do anything we want.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: And I believed her. I believed her had no reason
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: not to. So I went about my day and being
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: like I'm pretty special.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: But okay, first of all, I agree with Grace, and
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: I like, maybe I'm a little unhinged, but I'd like
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to think that I agree. I think you like you're
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: on your way, Like you are a culture change.
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: So funny, but also like what I think to myself,
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: like every every ten year old girl I meet you,
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: I'm just gonna be like their parents are gonna get
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: away from her.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: But I'm gonna be like, you are so special. Yeah,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: we're so fucking special. Because I think she really made
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: me think I was gonna do something special. And I
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: think like being told that as a kid is so important,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: whether it's true or not. And then you grow up
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and you're like, and now your friend thinks it about you,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And I think it's because she was like, hey, believe this.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's true.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I agree with you that you only a kid,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Like statistics show you only need one person in your
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: life to say I love you and you're special to
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: really make a difference. But I did the whole book
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: feel like Grace saw something in you that she had
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and didn't get the opportunity to fully live out.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting, Grace definitely lived it out, I promise,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: like everything she has ever wanted to do, she has done.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: That chapter was so long, so much had to be
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: cut out of she wants and listen for everyone listening,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I am aware this is offensive.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I am not the one who did it.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Grace went to Egypt and wanted to sit on a
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: pyramid and hopped the fence and fimbed it and did
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: you're kidding?
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't know.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I mean no, I'm not so trust me, I said,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: unhinged from reality. And it's also a very good thing
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that she was my godmother and not my mom, because
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: you too need some stability in life.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: But no, she has.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Everything she has ever wanted to do. She has found
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: a way to do it. She used to be like,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I think that guy is hot, but I heard he
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: likes blonde. I'm gonna wear a wig, and she'd put
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: on a blonde wig. She'd go to sleep with it,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: she'd wake up with it. I'm a blonde now and
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: go hit on the guy of her dreams.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I want everybody to know that Grace wears a ton
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: of leopard print, and to this day, Chelsea feels like
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: leopard print is a neutral because of Grace.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: That's a right baby, and so is a loud floral.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, wow, you really have me laughing. Okay, So
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: when you were fourteen, you found out that the man
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: who you thought was your dad was not your dad,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and that you were conceived through a sperm donor. So
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: you write, humanity was stripped from me and replaced with
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: a permanent aching. And this book dives very deep into
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: how this revelation really shook you and shaped you in
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a way. I think a lot of people who are
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: experiencing something similar could seek comfort in because this is
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: really not written about often. In those times that you
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: felt really disconnected from your own identity, how did you
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: find your way back to yourself?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Still have to kind of constantly thinking out everything about
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: half of yourself is a lie at fourteen is just
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: sort of like it just breaks everything you know and
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: putting it back together, I feel like is actually a
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: daily process.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: Yea. And definitely I came so.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Far with my trauma therapist, and I think especially because
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: there's not enough studies about us, because they quite literally
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: hid us and didn't keep records or burn the records
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: and like very purposely made all of this anonymous, and
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: so even going to get help for this my therapist
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: is like there's not like studies from get to study
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: yes as to like how to help you, And so
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: we actually borrow a lot from the adoptee community, not
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: me and my therapist, all of us, because more has
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: been random about them, and there's and we have so
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: much in common as communities, as donor can see people
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: and adoptees and like what it psychologically does to a
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: kid and an adult and a human and a person.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: And so it's funny I.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: Learned.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: I'm so weirdly.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: So grateful to have that chapter and to have recorded
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: my audiobook, because often I will suddenly feel like who
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: am I?
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Everything I am as a lie, I.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Don't deserve to be here, Like it's just it's so
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: overwhelming and confusing and intense, and I just feel like
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: panic and I'm just like who I am?
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Like does not fucking make sense?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: And every time I go and read the chapter, I go, oh, yes,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I do, Yes, I do.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: It's fine.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: It's internally sometimes feels like I can't live with this,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: but then when I read it, I go, yeah, it's crazy,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: but like it's livable.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: It's like sometimes it's even funny.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And so I really put myself back together by a
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: lot of grounding techniques about reading my own writing, about
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: just looking at the facts. That's a lot with trauma,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you know, you go to these panic modes and you say, Okay, wait,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: what are the facts?
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Who am I? And sharing it?
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Really the secret was killing me, and I think sharing
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: it now I feel so much more like myself that
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I've never felt this way before, and I feel it
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: now where I'm like, I finally got to be myself
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: when I finally got to come out as dotor conceived,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: because that is such a huge part of who I am,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: and I was letting it be a part of me
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: because I was trying for people to not know.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Part of it too, is the way you found out
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and being fourteen and not growing up knowing. It's very convoluted.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, and there's so much like there are so many
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: factors that go into it of how you find out
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and how it was taking place, and how your parents
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: talked to you about it, and all those things affect it.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Just to stand up for my mom for a second,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: she did tell me when I was very young, when
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: she and my fake dad divorced, I just and again,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: there was not literature at the time for them to know,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: like you can't tell a four year old once.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: You gotta they don't know, they don't know what you
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: just said to them.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: You gotta to say it like every day constantly. There's
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: children's books now that you can read about it, and
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: little by little there are more donor conceived people who
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: have professions like mine who are now starting to tell
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: these stories. But as of now, like I could count
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: the amount of popular books that like really popular books
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: that exist about being donor canc even the numbers too.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: It's Inheritance and Carrie Washington's mo Moore because Cary Washington
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: is donor conceived. Yeah, but so not a lot. That's
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: not enough books.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Well I shouldn't be telling you this is we're adding
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: a D list, so there are now three. I want
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: to talk about drag because sure, yeah, in the interest
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of time, So you're living in Chicago, you're doing improv,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: you're scraping by with pennies and eating food out of cans,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: and you decided to start performing and it had all
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: of these like really wonderful impacts on your career. How
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: did doing drag change the way that you perform it?
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Definitely?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: It changed everything tangibly you can see reviews from my
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: previous shows that I would do in comedy, not in drag,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: just as a person.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: They'd be like, she's cute, that's fun.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Huh huh.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: And then I go and perform drag, and then you
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: see the reviews of my shows become like amazing. They're like,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: she's the Michael Jordan of the cast. She'll eat your
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: ass off like she like. It was just like a
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: totally new person. And important is that I was performing
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: fem to femme drag, so I am cis gender and
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I was performing the gender of female as a female
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: drag queen slash monster. And I had not figured out
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: a way to love myself because it's so hard, and
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: they're like love yourself, date yourself, and you're like, yeah,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I'm trying. But it actually was so much easier for
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: me to create the type of woman I wanted to be,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: perform as her, and then go back to being me,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: and there'd be like little remnants that like stayed, and
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: it helped me see something I'd never seen in femininity before,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: which was power.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it changed everything for me.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that about you. So it was very
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: fun to read.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, that's amazing.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: It was really good. Okay, you say, trying to make
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: it in this business felt like hurling myself at a
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: brick wall day in and day out. There is just
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: this relentlessness to the entertainment industry. I see it in entrepreneurship.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I've heard entrepreneurs call it the resilience Olympics. I feel
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: that way about Hollywood and entertainment. You said something to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: me that's not in your book that I'm wondering if
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you're comfortable sharing, because I've been thinking about it ever
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: since we had dinner.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: My god, what did I say?
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: So?
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: You said to me that you thought you needed professionals
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: your whole life and then you could finally make it.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And actually the best advice were the people that you knew. Yeah, yes,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: can you expand on that absolutely.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: I always thought like, Okay, once I get enough success
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: or money, I'll get a PR team and I'll have
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: and whatever they do will make me have like a good,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: big career. Or I will get an agent who will
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: really fucking know what they're doing, and that agent will
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: open the doors and give me this career. And basically
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: there's all these incredible expert people and I I just
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: need to work hard enough to get to them.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: And then I got there and I was like, most
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: of you are dumbasses. This is unbelievable. And I'm not
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: saying I'm better than them. I'm saying I'm also a dumbass,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: and we're the same. And this whole time, I thought
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: you knew something that I didn't know. And I really,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: I really felt it the most when a couple of
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: things happen in life.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I fired some managers and reps who were like very fancy,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and I said to my lawyer, I said, who is
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: a manager who's a really young woman just starting out?
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Who reminds you of me? Who is me as a manager?
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: And I did say, like as if I was a pervert,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Like what's a young woman? But I'm a young woman.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: So I was like, I don't want a fancy manager.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: And they were like, you should meet Jordan. I signed
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Jordan on She's barely ever done this in her life.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: She turns my entire career around and is the reason
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I have a book, it's the reason we're going on tour.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: It's how I have a podcast, it's how I've rebranded,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: it's how we.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Have a business.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: It's like all of that you need incredible people, but
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: they are like not above you, they are beside you.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: And the other moment I really felt it is well
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: a thousand moments, but like I would go and try
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: and get expert advice on PR or getting my stuff
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: out there, negotiating my salary, and no one ever had
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: anything better to say than my text thread of six
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: incredible women in entertainment who have found ways to book shows,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: get people jobs, find lawyer advice like find the best
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: PR move, find the best marketing thing, find the best joke,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: like they all always knew better than anyone I had
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: gotten fancy access to.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: So this is in your book you call the thread
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Roger Roger, and I feel like so many people can
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: relate to this because there's like a council that we
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: have in our lives in this group text thread. But
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: you say you actually have a Google doc where you
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: guys have dumped endless pieces of wisdom. Yeah, I need
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: this doc published first of all. But second of all,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: can you share one or two pieces of advice from
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that Google doc that you think are just so worth sharing?
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Yes? Absolutely, And I actually put my favorite one in
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: the book.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: It's unhealthy. But it is too before you find the
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: answer out to a project that you are working really
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: hard on. Let's say have a big audition, you're turning
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: in a manuscript. You want to find out if you've
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: got the job this thing you've done, start something else.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Again.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't say this was healthier. I just said it's
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: the advice. Start something else, a new pitch, anew whatever,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: start moving that thing along because the crash of the
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: first thing not working out has been something that I
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: have had a hard time finding my willpower to get
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back up from because this business is so hard.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Always have the momentum of the new thing to keep
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: me moving no matter what happened with the first thing.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And if both of them worked out, now you have
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: two things. Another piece of advice, and this is a
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: really really easy one, which is that anytime you need
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: a favor or help in life, before emailing the person,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: whether you know them or not, just do a bunch
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: of research on them, even if they're your friend. Go
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: listen to see if they've ever done a podcast talking
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: about their career, See if they've ever written anything, put
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: anything out. Get all of that in there, and then
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: when you reach out to them, reach out to them
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: with an action. So it's not like, hey, could we
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: meet up and talk sometime, it's Hey, I'm a comedy
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: writer and I have a new script and i'm trying
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: to get it read. Do you have any advice because
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I know you fill in the blank thing.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: That you know about them.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Then me on the receiving end, or anyone on the
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: receiving end goes, oh, actually, my friend's looking for a
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: comedy writer and this sounds on a good fit. Let
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: me like match you to them, or here's some actual
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: advice for you.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: But the like, hey can we meet up?
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: And that this will just like it'll just become mush
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: scheduling and do you have the time and then the whatever.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: So always have an action ask when you reach.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Out to someone, and always research them beforehand, because you'll
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: find a way to actually ask them in a way
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: that makes them want to answer.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yes. I think that's such great advice. You said that
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: this book brought you and your mom closer, not further apart.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I was actually kind of shocked to hear that. I'm
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: really me as well, I'm really glad that that's the case.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: How is that the case? What were you scared that
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: it would change when you wrote it.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of stuff in there, a lot
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: of stuff that in my mom's generation, resilience and being
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: strong meant not talking about it, and safety meant not
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: talking about it.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: And she definitely passed that on to me.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: You know, don't tell people what the fuck is going on,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: because that means you're unsafe.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: And to turn around.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: And be like, I actually don't think that's good for
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: us anymore, and I'm gonna tell everyone everything is.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't know how that would go.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: And the reason it brought us closer together is because
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: my whole life, I was always trying to make sure
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: my mom was okay, and so that did mean hiding
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of my pain because if my mom knew
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I was in pain, then she'd not be okay. She
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: doesn't want that. She loves me so much. And so
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: the reason we're closer is because I was never actually
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: being myself and I was hiding a lot of pain
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: from her. And to her credit, she has held my
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: hand through this. It's been hard, but she's like, I'm
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: gonna hold your hand with you. I'm gonna do this,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: and I am trying to be like, listen, your story
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: is actually really beautiful and you don't need to be
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: embarrassed about I'm trying to give to her what I've
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: given to myself, which is like, We're not going to
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: be embarrassed anymore. This is actually pretty fucking cool what
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: you did. And I can look at her story and
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: feel that way. But I know she still feels really embarrassed,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: embarrassed to be in abusive relationships and that it's embarrassing.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: It's not fucking embarrassing. It's like cool that she survived.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm hoping this book is giving that to her.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: It's certainly what I've been trying to do. We're holding
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: hands through it.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: She's the only one I've got.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a donor kid like I don't just got my mom,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: and so I really like and I love her so much,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: and she was always doing her fucking best and she's
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: definitely doing her best right now to have a daughter
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: on a podcast being like blah blah blah, our life
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: was weird.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: How do you feel being a cycle breaker?
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: TVD? If that's truly what I'm doing.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: You are, I mean, you've already to me, you've already
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: broken a huge cycle. Your mom was in an abusive relationship,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: You were in an abusive relationship, and you're not. No, Yeah,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: you know you won't see it. They won't If you
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: decide to have kids, they won't see that.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is pretty fucking cool. Thanks Daniel. It made
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: me feel nice.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: You know. Resilience is interesting because it's definitely my best quality.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: I got it from my mom.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: But the ability to get back up and keep going
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again often hides how much
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: you've gotten through.
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: People can't see it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: They think, Oh, especially in women, Oh she's so confident.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Oh she looks like she doesn't care anything. Oh she
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: thinks she can. She thinks she can just do whatever
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: she wants. Like they think they should jab you. That
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: almost maybe you deserve to be taken down a little bit.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And I think I'm hoping to just show some.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: More vulnerability because I think this whole time, I've been like,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get through it, We're gonna fucking fight through it.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: And now it's like if I don't get through it,
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's like I'm not gonna try and pretend
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: that I'm doing great, and just to really throw a
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: curveball on this podcast, it kind of makes me think
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: of j Loo. We're nothing alike, but that woman's strength.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: I mean to put out a fucking documentary for an
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: hour long of like this is my love story with
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Ben Affleck, and one month later it's like, actually, we're
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: maybe getting divorced, and now she's like walking the carpet
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: and doing press for Atlice. I'm like, the fucking strength.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: But because of it, everyone's like so fucking annoyed, you know,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: And I think that's interesting, isn't it. Though You're so
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: mad at her for not showing the pain, which is
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: a weird thing that we only do to women, you know.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: And I mean if men show pain, we're like, oh
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: my god, they cried, They're amazing. It's so hot.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I got it. Cry. Yeah.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: And I think, like I've just been thinking a lot
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: about like strength and breaking cycles and pushing forward, and
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: a part of me is like.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Maybe I'm gonna I put the book out.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: It's got that feels like Enough's like.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: Let's like go down the lazy river after that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Now knowing you, I feel like that's not the route,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: but I hope you do take a vacation to MAUI
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: for a little lazy river time or just stay here.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Like okay, thank you, yeah you don't have We're going
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: on I'm doing a book tour, but maybe after that.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you're doing a book tour with how
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: much you hate airplanes.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna be I'm so much sant x.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Who knows if I'll even be able to speak at
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: these events.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: By the way, if you don't already follow Chelsea, please
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: do for this book tour, because she will get drunk
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: on a plane, get to her hotel and start instagram
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: storing the whole thing, which is truly entertaining.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: This is why, this.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Is why you're not supposed to take wine at Satax.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to end on something very fun,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: which was your royal wedding. There's a section of the
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: book it goes into the wedding, and it truly was
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: your version of a royal wedding. I was lucky enough
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: to know some people that attended, so I saw photos
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and everybody came dressed to impress in the
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Chelsea and yair way. What did planning that wedding really
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: mean to you, because I know with you it's it's
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: always a little bit deeper.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting once you plan a wedding, you
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: suddenly feel like you should give advice, which I do feel,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and I feel like wedding planning didn't fully make sense
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: to me just because I didn't really grow up around
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: standard wedding culture.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: So a lot of it was like, wait, we're gonna
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: pay money for what?
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: But I do love weddings, and when I really saw
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: it as a way to reflect who we are and
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: make choices that tangibly show what our relationship is and
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: what our values are, even in things that maybe we
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: hadn't decided yet, like our people who spend one thousand
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: dollars on a basketball court at a wedding, is that
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: who we are? Do we serve Taco Bell and not salmon?
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: You know? These are things we were making, and I hope.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: The answer to all of those are yes.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. When it was, we did have a basketball court
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: and we.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Did have Taco Bell, but I it was like so
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: beautiful to get to make something with him that was like, fully,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: it's like making a shrine to your relationship, which is
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: fucking awesome, and definitely we we both paid. We paid
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: for it ourselves, and we were definitely wondering if that
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: was smart or good and if we should have like
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: gotten a mortgage on a house instead.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: And in the middle of the wedding we found each other.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: We were dancing those to nose and both of us
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: at the same time, We're like, oh my god, every
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: dollar was worth it, Every dollar was worth it. We
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: would have spent more. I was like, because I was
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: just sort of like, man, I'm gonna regret. You know
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: you're gonna I'm gonna regret this, and don't put that
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: on your credit card. And we were just like, every
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: fucking second was worth it. And I did know that,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: like I wanted to create something that we could always
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: like look back on and touch that would remind us
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: of like our relationship and who we are.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: And I think we did that.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: And I our dress code for everyone who wants to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: know was trying out do us, and I think everyone
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: really showed up because he and I are so nuts
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: and bananas.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: You did know what we would look like, and you
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: did know we meant.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: It, and that didn't try and do like out do
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: you were the ones that looked weird, you know.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: And there was only like four of them who were like,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: oh my god, Oh my god. So you didn't just
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: mean like a sequined sweater and I was like, no,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I did not. There's someone in a cape over there,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: there's a woman holding an umbrella made of birds.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: Like, come on, I have to tell you.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I don't like weddings, and I've never really wanted one,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: and I in my head will think about like, how
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: could I do this in a way that I would
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: want one? And I've never heard anybody share that. And
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: then when I read your book, I was like, oh,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: this sounds fun. I actually maybe want one.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I love that because, first off, I'm so
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: sad we weren't friends for you to be at my wedding,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: but now I'm friends to be at your wedding.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: Swam's gonna need you to have one.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it better be really fun like yours.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: Really, I really.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Think the key to weddings because sometime people are like, wait,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: so what I have to like have exploding confetti to
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: like have a good wedding? And I truly think because
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: I love weddings when they're good.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: When they're bad, it's the worst thing you've ever been doing.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, they just feel really contrived, so.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Contrived, and so like we're all being quiet on purpose,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: even though there's a baby crying one hundred feet away,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: like ew, like we're all drinking, we're eating dried salmon
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: and pretending the mother of the bride.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Knows how to speak like not fun.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I do think anytime people throw a wedding
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: that is really emblematic and true to them, that it is.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: Really a.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Ceremony, a portrait, a museum, a show of who we
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: are as a couple, it's the best wedding I've ever
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: been to. Even when that is really tiny, chic, cute elegance,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: if it's and it feels real, it's the best.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: That's the best advice I've heard about weddings. Thank you
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: for sharing that.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for letting me because I've got advice,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: got things to say.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, you do this whole book. Actually, your story without
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: being preachy is full of advice. You just learn from
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: being on the journey with you. I have a few
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: rapid fire questions and then you're officially done with me.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I'm ready, Okay, fill in the blank. I am the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: woman I am because of.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: A bunch of bullshit.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: The best advice you've ever received that you applied to
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: your own life, that you actually applied.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: Where you go is where you'll end up. So mutch
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: where you go.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like that applies to relationships. To someone said
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: to me once, it's really easy to fall in love
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: with the wrong person, So be careful who you spend
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: time with.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Ugh. It applies to everything. It applies to even if
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I want a new hobby. Okay, you
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: are going in a direction, make sure you want to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: be there.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: It's a choice. Someone who's made a difference in your life.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: My mom, my husband, my Doug, my good brother, my teacher,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: and Libra.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: The best makeup tip you learned while performing drag.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Ooh, best makeup tip I learned while performing dreg use
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: weave glue to adhere heavy eyelashes.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm ever gonna use heavy enough eyelashes
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to use weave glue so that you should us that.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: You might love it. You might love it. You never know.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Only on my wedding day. Okay. A book that you've
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: read that has changed your life, something you think everybody
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: should read and you can't say the one that you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: said the last time?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: What did I say the last time? I don't even
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: know you know. I don't think everyone should read this.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: But if you have been through harrowing domestic violence and
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: you are someone who reading about other people's stories helps
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: the other side.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: By Lacey M.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Johnson, and if you are donor conceive or adopted, you
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: should be grateful by Angela Tucker.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Tell me when to stop?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, Oh my gosh, I love this. I love when
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: you do this.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Stop Okay, ooh, this one's deep. What are you still
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: trying to prove to yourself or to other people?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: But I deserve to be here.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: I think we all feel that, what's the smartest decision
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: you've ever made?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Marrying my husband?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: That answer, yes, that's so gross.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: That is so so gross, and I'm so sorry to
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: everyone listening. You're like, it's like, it's like I married
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: my best friend. But I really so, I really mean
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: it in the sense that I told myself every fucking
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: day of my lifcence I was eight years old that
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I would never ever ever get married. So it was
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: a harder decision for me than many other decisions.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: I also when I started hanging out with you, I
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: remember saying like, thanks for spending your night with me,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: because I know like you'd always rather be with Yasser
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: like you're you like your husband, which is something that
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: I aspire to. So thank you such a great role model.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: And also I like my husband so much because I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: always prioritize friends too. And I love you, and I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: want to say on Mike, I apologize for the restaurant
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I took you to. Instagram made a reel. It made
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the restaurant look beautiful. I made a reservation one month
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: in advance. I thought I was taking you to heaven.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: It was disgusting and everybody watch out.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: But I had two glasses of wine, which is two
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: more than I usually have. I ended up having a
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: great time because you had to get.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: Through the cuisine and the vibe. It was so rough.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: Never trust Instagram reels when you pick your restaurant.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: You are my friends, you are the vibe. Chelsea, thank
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: you and thanks for writing this.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and I love you so much.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: And now I'm ready for yours. Don't cut it out.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: We're all ready for Danielle's book. Everyone go tell her
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: we're ready.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: We're cutting that right her.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: DM her, we're not. We're not. We're ready for your book.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Is aboard, mister